1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 2: Stacey, it's the end of April and many people, myself included, 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: are starting to think about the summer plans. Oh yeah, 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 2: and those plans, no matter where you're going, what you're doing, 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: they often involve tickets buying tickets. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 3: Yes, this is true. It's the thing that unites all 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 3: kinds of experiences, concert travel, sports events. Tickets. You have 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 3: to have a ticket to get through your turnstyle or 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 3: get onto the jet bridge. But right now there is 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 3: a lot going on with tickets of all kinds, and 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: we're going to be talking about that today. 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. First, of course, the first one I thought about 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 2: air travel. Those tickets. Plane tickets are getting more expensive, 14 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: and the culprit is jet fuel. 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 4: You don't fight a war without jet fuel, right, So Europe, 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 4: not only are you worried about your summer vacation, but 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 4: you're also going to worried about like, does this make 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 4: Europe really vulnerable to Russia? What if there's no more 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 4: jet fuel to supply these European bases, then what happened? 20 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 4: While a war doesn't continue on because of jeff fuel, 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 4: it certainly can end because of jet fuel. 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: We're talking with economist Michelle Brohard about why this commodity 23 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 2: is going to affect your bottom line. 24 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: And Max, there has been some kind of promising news 25 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,479 Speaker 3: in the concert and sports ticket space, and now could 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 3: it be the end of the endless fees for concerts 27 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 3: and sports? 28 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 5: And so it's moments like those where you start to 29 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 5: see behind the curtain. Like intuitively, when you're at that amphitheater, 30 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 5: you're probably like, oh, a thing that I used to bring, 31 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 5: now I pay for it cost me fifteen bucks. But 32 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 5: when you see it in the aggregate and you're like, whoa, 33 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 5: they're making that much. 34 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 6: Money just on a laun chairs. 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 3: Reporter Ashley Carmen gives us the lowdown of the Live 36 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: Nation entertainment trial that marks a change in how we 37 00:01:51,280 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 3: pay for experiences. 38 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 2: From Bloomberg BusinessWeek. This is Everybody's business. I'm Max Chafkin and. 39 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: I'm Stacey Bannocksmith today on the show Tickets, tariffs and 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: the changes coming to your wallet. Stay with us, Max. 41 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 3: The strait of horm Moves has opened and closed nearly 42 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 3: a dozen times since the US attack on Iran in February, 43 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 3: and with President Trump extending the ceasefire indefinitely until an 44 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: agreement between the US, Israel, and Iran can be reached. 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 3: I feel like this back and forth is going to 46 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: potentially be pushed out a lot longer. 47 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: Last week we heard from the head of the International 48 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: Energy Agency Fati b Roll. He had this to say 49 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 2: about the looming energy crisis that's caused by this shutdown. 50 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: In the straight of horror moves we. 51 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 7: Are in Europe. We hear maybe six weeks or so 52 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 7: jetfield left. If we are not able to open the 53 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 7: Strait of Homos, if they refine it as a resulted 54 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 7: start to work, I can't tell you soon. We even 55 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 7: hear the news that some of the the flats from 56 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 7: City A to CITYB might be canceled as it is 57 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 7: out of leck of jet fuel. 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 2: Bad news for those going to City B. 59 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 3: Stacey it is, and bad news for anyone try to 60 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: get from any point A tot any point B if 61 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 3: it involves fuel. To help us sort through all of 62 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 3: this back and forth and what it might mean for 63 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: us and for the rest of the world, we have 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: economist Michelle Brohard, head of Policy and Geopolitical risk at Kepler. 65 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 4: Michelle, welcome, Thank you so much for having me. I'm 66 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 4: so happy to be here. 67 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: Just to start out. Really generally, we're about two months 68 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: into this war with Iran. The straight upform moves has 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 3: mostly been closed during that time. Give us an overview 70 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: of the situation and what it means for the world 71 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 3: right now. 72 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 4: Well, this situation in the region is we're out of stalemate. 73 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 4: That's what it looks like. Yeah, the US is blockading 74 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 4: the straight, Iran is blockading the Straight, and so you're 75 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 4: kind of like at a stalemate. Bombs aren't flying anymore. 76 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: There might be like a few gunfires at boats and 77 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 4: boats getting seized, but for the most part, it looks 78 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 4: like at the moment we're at a stalemate. And so 79 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 4: at day fifty, which is where we're at, I think 80 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 4: maybe we might be on day forty nine or fifty. 81 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 4: At day fifty, we are at a point now where 82 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 4: we had enough oil on water if that got drawn down. 83 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: Oil on water meaning oil in the boats, like oil 84 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 3: oil on. 85 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 4: The boats that were moving around the world have all 86 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 4: delivered all of their rise to the region. Oil in 87 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 4: transit has delivered all their supplies in the region. That 88 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 4: of course includes crude oil, but it includes jet fuel, 89 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 4: it includes gasoline, it includes diesel, and so the amount 90 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: of oil on water that we've seen drawn down is 91 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 4: pretty significant, which means that now the next phase is 92 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 4: to draw down on land inventories, and that happens very quickly. 93 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 4: So while on land inventories have been drawing gradually, they're 94 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 4: about to draw rapidly. So like the Ernest Hemingway quote, 95 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 4: how do you go bankruptcy starts gradually, then suddenly the 96 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,480 Speaker 4: same thing's happening here in the oil market. It happened gradually, 97 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 4: and then it's gonna happen and then all ones. 98 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Michelle, just to zoom in on one of the 99 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: sort of fuels you brought up, jet fuel. We heard 100 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: a clip from Fati Burrol, who is the head of 101 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: the International Energy Agency, talking about Europe essentially running low 102 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: on jet fuel. Six weeks of jet fuel and we're 103 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 2: seeing flight cancelations. I have looftons I believe cancel flights. 104 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 2: Another airline canceling flight. Yeah, what is happening there? Because 105 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: six weeks of jet fuel doesn't sound that bad. If 106 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: you had six weeks of heating oil in your tank 107 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 2: at home, you wouldn't be especially worried. That's plenty of 108 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: time to fill up you know, get some more oil. 109 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 4: Yes, you're a pass about fifty days of cover. Let's 110 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 4: call it forty five days of cover. And it depends, 111 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 4: like in the med has a different number than the 112 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 4: northwest Europe, different than the Balkans, so like it's kind 113 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 4: of spread out. But in general, let's say they have 114 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 4: six weeks. That means, by the way, that you have 115 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 4: to draw down all the way to zero, which is 116 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 4: not possible. Right, tanks have to have twenty percent remaining, 117 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 4: So six weeks includes going down all the way down 118 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 4: to the bottom. So like imagine you're drinking a drink 119 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 4: with a straw. You don't get everything out of the drink, 120 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 4: right because there's always something remaining inside of the drink. 121 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 4: So the six weeks assumes that we draw all the 122 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 4: way down to zero, which is not possible. 123 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: So it's not six weeks, so it's actually probably long 124 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 3: and a half weeks. 125 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: Weeks. 126 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, But just to get put that into perspective, isn't 127 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 4: the question really like how much does Europe usually run on? 128 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 4: It normally runs on fifty days cover, So it's not 129 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 4: like Europe looks bad at the moment if you looked 130 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 4: at it based on historical patterns. You would say, oh, 131 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 4: looks normal. What is not normal because it imports a 132 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 4: significant amount. There's no more imports coming in. There's a 133 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 4: few dribbles here and there from the United States, there's 134 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 4: a few dribbles here and there from other countries. Dan Godie, 135 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 4: for example, that the Nigerian refinery has been sending some 136 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 4: jet fuel. So you have it a little bit, but 137 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 4: what you don't have is the constant resupply. So while 138 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 4: fifty days of cover is normal, what isn't normal is 139 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 4: not receiving resupply. And so that's when I say it 140 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 4: happens gradually. Then suddenly, right the resupply that they had 141 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 4: been receiving has been happening. All of those boats have offloaded, 142 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 4: all of the oil and transit has offloaded. And so 143 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 4: now we're moving into the and suddenly part where they're 144 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 4: going to start drawing down dramatically. And I guess my 145 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 4: biggest concern is that obviously my vacations are going to 146 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 4: get canceled in summer is one of my biggest concerns. 147 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 4: But the other big concern that I have is what 148 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 4: about the military. You don't fight a war without jet fuel, right, 149 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 4: So Europe not only are you worried about your summer vacation, 150 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 4: which I'm going to Europe for my summer vacation, but 151 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: not only are you worried about your summer vacation, but 152 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 4: you're also kind of worried about like, wait, does this 153 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 4: make Europe really vulnerable to Russia? What if there's no 154 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 4: more jet fuel to supply these European bases, then what happens? 155 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 4: So like, while a war doesn't continue on because of 156 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 4: jet fuel, it certainly can end because of jet fuel. 157 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,679 Speaker 3: So, Michelle, the US is the largest producer of oil 158 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 3: in the world, which still kind of blows my mind. 159 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: What kind of a position is the US in. Can't 160 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 3: we just make jet fuel? Jet fuel comes out of oil. 161 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 3: Can't we just produce our own jet fuel and ship 162 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: it out? 163 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 4: Yes, which we do. We export around two hundred and 164 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 4: seventy thousand barrels a day of jet fuel, maybe call 165 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 4: it three hundred thousand barrels a day if you want 166 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 4: to get like on the high end. Almost all of 167 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 4: it goes to Latin America and Europe. Now who's going 168 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 4: to get it first? This time? Europe? Because who can 169 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 4: pay the most to Europe? 170 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: Right? 171 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 4: So it will go to Europe, but that doesn't meet 172 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 4: Europe's demands. So while Europe can get some jet fuel 173 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,719 Speaker 4: from the US, it's not going to be able to 174 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 4: meet all of their demands. And Europe has their own 175 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 4: refining capacity, right, they can refine some and make their 176 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 4: own jet fuel, and they can change the yields of 177 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 4: their refineries that tiny bit to make more jet fuel. 178 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,959 Speaker 4: But again, if they could have supplied their own jet 179 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 4: fuel before, they wouldn't be importing so much. 180 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: To begun with, Michelle, is the jet fuel conversation that 181 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: we're having oil on the water shortages in Europe, maybe 182 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: even worse shortages in Asia. My sense is this is 183 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: one of many similar things that are happening. I mean, 184 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 2: there are diesel shortages in Asia right now. Is this 185 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: going to all happen together or are there areas of 186 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 2: special concern for instance, like with jet fuel where you're 187 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 2: talking about it affects Europe's military capacity or something like that. 188 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: Where are you most concerned as you look at first 189 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: the likelihood that this thing could go on for weeks 190 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: at least and then all the knock on effects from that. 191 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess my first concern as an American as 192 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 4: American military. Right, I have lots of concerns, but we're 193 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 4: going to talk about just in general, the oil, the 194 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 4: way that the oil market is constructed, right, But the 195 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 4: US military being able to meet their fuel needs is 196 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 4: obviously concern. There is no doubt in my mind that 197 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 4: Department of Defense surely took this into consideration before the 198 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 4: war started. 199 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: Right. 200 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 4: If we're going to have this war and it's going 201 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 4: to last six months, we need to make sure we 202 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 4: have enough fuel for the work. Okay, okay, but I'm 203 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: going to give them the bin out that they have 204 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 4: some sort of contingency plans they can. Of course, By 205 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 4: the way, the US military, just to put this in perspective, 206 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: consumes around one hundred and fifty thousand barrels a day 207 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 4: of oil. We when we move into wartime, the demand 208 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 4: for US military jet fuel doubles. Now they're consuming three 209 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 4: hundred thousand barls a day of oil, not on US oil, 210 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 4: which means that when their supplies run dry, they need 211 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 4: to find a place to refuel. Right, they can refuel 212 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 4: on the European bases, like I said, but they've Europe's 213 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 4: got a problem, so it is possible stay back to 214 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 4: your point, the US is the largest largest exporter of 215 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: CRED plus products. That two hundred and seventy that three 216 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 4: hundred thousand barols a day that goes to Europe could 217 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: go to the US military, right like, it can pivot. 218 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 4: The administration can say, you know what, for national security reasons, 219 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 4: all of our jet fuel exports are going to European bases, 220 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 4: and that's it. So there are ways to move it around. 221 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 4: Of course, it's going to be bad for European vacationers. Okay, 222 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 4: So that's one thing I'm concerned about as an American 223 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 4: and as a person who would be concerned about the 224 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 4: US military. The second thing I'm concerned about are the 225 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 4: poor countries. The poor countries that need fuel for emergency vehicles, 226 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 4: the poor countries that need fuels for hospitals, the poor 227 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 4: countries that need fuel for harvest, for just their food. 228 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 3: Let's say the conflict goes for another fifty days and 229 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 3: oil supplies are constricted for another fifty days. What does 230 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 3: the world look like at that point. 231 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 4: Oh, honestly, I can't imagine what it looks like. It 232 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 4: certainly looks like an economic disaster in fifty days. Obviously, 233 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 4: Europe is out of JEF fuel. A lot of these 234 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 4: countries are out of all fuel, diesel fuel. There was 235 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 4: a when I think I told you this. I was 236 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 4: on BBC earlier today and the guy before me was like, 237 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 4: oil prices are going to go to three hundred dollars 238 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 4: a barrel. Okay, But here's the thing. It sounds dramatic, yes, 239 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 4: but here's the problem. That's not rational, right because the 240 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 4: rational thing to think is, Okay, we've lost seven million 241 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 4: barrels a day of oil, right, so we need to 242 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 4: lose seven million barrels a day of demand. Right. So 243 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 4: if we loft seven million barrels a day of supply, 244 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 4: we need to use lose seven million barrels a day 245 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 4: with that demand. What does the price have to go 246 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 4: to to lose seven million barrels a day of demand? 247 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: If it goes to three hundred you're talking about like 248 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 4: COVID level demands destruction. We don't need to lose twenty 249 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: million barrels a day of demand. We need to lose 250 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 4: seven and that's probably around one hundred and fifty one 251 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 4: hundred and seventy dollars a barrel, which is a more 252 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: like a It's terrible and it's going to be really 253 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 4: terminal for the poor countries. But it's not three hundred 254 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 4: dollars a barrel. So what we need to do is 255 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:12,479 Speaker 4: crush demand. Over talking about like these crazy prices, right like, realistically, 256 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 4: we just need to lose demand. 257 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 3: And before we let you go, Michelle, I wanted to ask, 258 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: what is the thing that you are watching most closely now? 259 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 3: Is there something that you're most concerned about right now? 260 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,719 Speaker 3: Kind of in the situation that we're in. 261 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 4: There are a few things. One jet fuel is like, 262 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 4: it's such a fascinating test case. There's nothing more fun 263 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 4: than like trying to figure out what's going to happen 264 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 4: to jet fuel and how this is going to solve itself, because. 265 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 3: There's nothing more us than. 266 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 4: Okay, maybe my panel shuckle out for lunch is like 267 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 4: a little more fun, But I just think about it. 268 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 4: I'm like, it is so interesting. I remember when COVID, 269 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 4: during COVID oil prices, it was just like, what is 270 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 4: going to happen? You're sitting on the edge. It's like 271 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 4: watching a movie that you can't turn away from because 272 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 4: you can't wait to find out how it's going to end. 273 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 4: Because we don't know We've never seen anything like this. 274 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 4: Just like in COVID, we had no idea how that 275 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 4: was going to end, and just like this, we have 276 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 4: no idea, like economically, how this is going to end. 277 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 4: It's so exciting. 278 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 3: Michelle, thank you so much for talking with us. 279 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me. 280 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: The most I've paid for an experience I think is 281 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: six hundred and forty six dollars for my partner and 282 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: I to see the Eras tour in twenty twenty three. 283 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 8: The most I paid for a conto ticket was three 284 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 8: four hundred dollars and it was the Charlie XCX Stadium tour, 285 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 8: And to be honest, don't regret it. 286 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: Was it worth it. 287 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 4: That is tricky. 288 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 9: I am glad to have witnessed it, but I actually 289 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 9: didn't have a great time. We got seats that were 290 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 9: like sort of just parallel with the stage, so I 291 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 9: couldn't even really see the stage. 292 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 10: I spent like three hundred dollars on tickets to see 293 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 10: Taylor Swift in New Orleans with my mom and my sisters, 294 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 10: and it was totally worth it. I had just gone 295 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 10: through a pretty horrible breakup and it was really cathartic 296 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 10: to hear her perform some songs that you know, she 297 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 10: has many breakup songs. 298 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 4: Did I enjoy it? 299 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: I think there were more enjoyable concerts. 300 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 10: I had an amazing time, and I don't regret spending 301 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 10: that money. 302 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 8: At the time, I said, this was the last time 303 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 8: I'll ever pay that much for a ticket. But it 304 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 8: was the best show and I got my whole life, 305 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 8: so one hundred percent worth it. 306 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 2: Okay, that was a few of you. Those are some 307 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: deep and personal conversations. We're hearing a few of you. 308 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 2: Everybody's business listeners sending in voice memos, sharing in the 309 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: prices you have paid for tickets. If you have more 310 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: to say on this, and I know I do, I 311 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: think Stacy will too, send us a voice memo or 312 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 2: send us an email. Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. While 313 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: everybody was talking about concert ticket prices, Stacy, I think 314 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: it's it goes even wider than that. It's happening in sports, 315 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 2: it's happening in all sorts of live events. 316 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting that someone just used the word experience 317 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: as opposed to a concert, because I feel like I 318 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 3: always think of it as concert tickets. But it's more 319 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: than that. 320 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: Okay, so this is personal, but what is the most 321 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 2: you've ever paid Stacy for a live experience. 322 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: For a live experience or a concert? Okay, a concert? Okay, 323 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 3: well this is it. 324 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: Gets embarrassing veryo. 325 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 3: This is this is super embarrassing. I okay, I saw 326 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 3: the Ring Cycle of operas, the Wagner Ring Cycle of operas. 327 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 3: It's like fifty hours of opera. But I was like 328 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 3: determined to do it. It was a lot. It was 329 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 3: of course, all the tickets are like I. 330 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 2: Was in this blue she just put the number on mine. 331 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 3: It was like probably north of eight hundred bucks. 332 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: Okay, this is like a humble brag because like most people. 333 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 3: Seeing German opera spending the thousand dollars to see like 334 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 3: fifty hours of German opera. 335 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 6: Who does that? 336 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 2: I'll just tell you you're wearing hats with helmets, because 337 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: it's only fair. I think the most I've ever spent 338 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 2: on a per ticket basis was when I saw Hamilton 339 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: in like twenty ten or something, which. 340 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 3: Oh, that was like embarrassing. 341 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 2: That's like super two hundred and fifty bucks a ticket. 342 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 2: We are meandering, though, because Ashley Carmen is here. She 343 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 2: has been covered She covers podcasts, concerts, the music business, 344 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 2: audiobooks for Bloomberg. She has also been covering this really 345 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,680 Speaker 2: interesting trial that just took place over the Live Nation 346 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 2: Ticketmaster combination. Ashley is here right now. How are you, Ashley? 347 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 6: I'm good. 348 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 5: I also feel like I should shout out our antitrust 349 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 5: team who has really been on this. I, because I 350 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 5: live in New York, have been pinch hitting going to 351 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 5: the courthouse when the trial was happening, so I did 352 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 5: spend quite a lot of time there and then also 353 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 5: covering these business all the time. So this concert issue, 354 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 5: beyond Live Nation, has just been something that's simmering. 355 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, this goes way beyond this anti trust dispute, but 356 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: I think it makes sense to start there because it's 357 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 2: what just happened. The trial was also just fun. I 358 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 2: think you were in the courtroom. Just tell us a 359 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: little bit about what was at stake here with Live 360 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 2: Nation Ticketmaster the whole thing. 361 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 6: Well, does that the scene? 362 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 5: I think we can probably say most people in the US, 363 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 5: if not Earth, don't love Live Nation because it has 364 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 5: become the stand in for high ticket prices and the 365 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 5: reason why people are starting to pay hundreds, if not 366 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 5: at times, even thousands of dollars for tickets. 367 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 6: So you have this. 368 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 3: They sell most of the tickets. 369 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 2: They own most of the they owned many of the 370 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 2: music venues. They represent many of the biggest artists, and 371 00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: they sell all the time. 372 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 5: Right, So this was the whole thrust of the entire 373 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 5: case was that they it has now been found that 374 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 5: they have been ruled to be illegally monopolizing the concert 375 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 5: business by owning a promotion's arm which represents the artist 376 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 5: and helps them sketch out their tour and the prices 377 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 5: and all that, as well as being a ticket seller. 378 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 5: So they are able to put preferential treatment on where 379 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 5: these artists go and make sure they're using their ticketing 380 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 5: platform as well as. 381 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:27,879 Speaker 6: The promotions arm. 382 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 5: But as far as the stakes, I think people from 383 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 5: a consumer perspective, we're really hoping this case would remedy 384 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 5: some of these high ticket prices and that maybe if 385 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,239 Speaker 5: Live Nation is broken up, which we don't know if 386 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 5: that's going to happen, the judge has to decide now 387 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 5: that the jury has ruled that perhaps that will give 388 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 5: us a little relief and we will pay less for tickets. 389 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, the thing A couple of things about this trial 390 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: that I found interesting. One is that the Department of Justice, 391 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 2: just before the jury rendered its verdict, the Department of 392 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 2: Justice settled with Live Nation, essentially allowing them to continue operating. 393 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 2: It was like a pretty I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, Ashley, 394 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 2: but my sense is it was a fairly modest settlement. 395 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: It certainly I think some like ten million bucks. The 396 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 2: potential damages here could reach into the hundreds of millions. 397 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 2: And then the other thing is there were just these 398 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 2: moments at the trial that I think were very cathartic 399 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: if you are somebody who has had the experience of 400 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 2: paying a lot of money for a concert, and in 401 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: particular around fees. So were there were these messages from 402 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: Live Nation executives talking to each other about how awesome 403 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 2: it was to charge parking fees and all of these 404 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 2: weird little fees that get tacked onto your event ticket. Yeah. 405 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 5: I mean one moment for me that I was in 406 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 5: the courthouse for that I just found super fascinating was 407 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 5: so part of this is that Live Nation builds and 408 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,719 Speaker 5: operates amphatheaters, and I guess previously you could bring your 409 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,959 Speaker 5: own lawn chair to the empatheater. And there was a 410 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 5: document that was shown displaying how once Live Nation banned 411 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 5: lawn chairs from the amphitheater. I forget the timeline on 412 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 5: which this happened. I think it was over the course 413 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 5: of a year. They made just millions of dollars on 414 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 5: their vaun chair down tolls. And so it's moments like 415 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 5: those where you start to see behind the curtain. Like intuitively, 416 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 5: when you're at that amphitheater, you're probably like, oh, a 417 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 5: thing that I used to bring, now I pay for 418 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 5: it cost me fifteen bucks. But when you see it 419 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 5: in the aggregate and you're like, whoa, they're making that 420 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 5: much money you just on the lawn chairs, And then 421 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 5: you're thinking about the parking and the food and the concessions, 422 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 5: and it goes from that. 423 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: I got to read some of these quotes from our 424 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: colleague leand Nyland story Lean Island. Of course, Bloomberg's an 425 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: I trust reporter. So first of all, I learned that 426 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 2: within Live Nation, at least some employees, and it's important 427 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: to say that Live Nation said these chats are not 428 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: representative of their policies. That's what they are getting court. 429 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 2: They actually try to get these excluded from the trial. 430 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 2: But I learned that Live Nation some Live Nation employees 431 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 2: refer to ancillary fees as ANSEL. And so there's a 432 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: quote that says, these people are so stupid, I almost 433 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 2: feel bad taking advantage of them. I gouge them on 434 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: ANSEL prices. In another exchange, this same executive bragged about 435 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 2: charging people to park fifty dollars to park in the grass, 436 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 2: sixty dollars for closer grass. Rob them blind, baby, I'm 437 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 2: reading from Leah's story, that's how we do it, so 438 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 2: and brutal. 439 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 5: And the team that was at the courthouse the day 440 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 5: of the verdict did talk to the jury, a couple 441 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 5: members of the jury, and they said specifically the messages 442 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 5: they saw and how executives spoke did sway them on 443 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 5: landing that this was. 444 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 3: I mean, it also seems like, and maybe can talk 445 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 3: a little bit about this, that going to a concert 446 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,680 Speaker 3: used to be quite a bit cheaper, or there were options, 447 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 3: there were cheap options, and now it seems like the 448 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 3: price of concerts maybe because of this has just really 449 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: especially since the pandemic gone. 450 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a few things going on here. 451 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 5: For one, I will say there are cheap concert tickets 452 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 5: if you want to see Taylor Swift, one of the 453 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 5: biggest artists in the world, Yeah, that's not going to 454 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 5: be cheap. But if you want to see a ban 455 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 5: from Brooklyn, you could still. 456 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 6: Get a cheap concert ticket. So there's that. 457 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 5: But the superstars, yes, those prices have skyrocketed. 458 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 6: And part of the reason for that. 459 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 5: Is because previously you used to support artists by buying 460 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 5: CDs vinyls, that was their main money source. Now with streaming, 461 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 5: while people do make a lot of money in streaming 462 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 5: has helped bring the industry back from the piracy era, 463 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 5: it's still not the same level of money that they 464 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 5: were making during the CD and vinyl era, and so 465 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 5: live has become a very significant part of how artists 466 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 5: make money. 467 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: The other thing that's happening Ashley and I feel like 468 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 2: this has come up a lot in sports because there 469 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 2: is sort of a parallel conversation in sports. These ticket 470 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 2: fees are obviously a factor there as well. Ticketmaster sells 471 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: a lot of sports tickets, but you also have this 472 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: thing with pre sales where both for concerts, big concerts Beyonce, 473 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: and also now it's happening with World Cup tickets where 474 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 2: you have these sort of touted pre sales with extremely 475 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 2: high entry points, and like the big conversation in the 476 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: world of sports right now is around World Cup tickets, 477 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: where you know, to go see the US, even to 478 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 2: get bad seats at this World Cup, you're talking about 479 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 2: maybe one thousand dollars in the nosebleeds two thousand dollars 480 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 2: more as you get closer, and fans reacting to that 481 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 2: in a really it's sometimes a negative way, although of 482 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: course some people are. 483 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 5: Paying yeah, And I think by that same token, you 484 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 5: also have what happens in resale. So even if the 485 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 5: ticket in that first go is let's say, decently reasonable, 486 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 5: you now have this issue. And I think this is 487 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 5: partially just because tech has allowed it, and also the 488 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 5: regulations have allowed it where people can flip their tickets 489 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 5: and get ten x the price, and people are willing 490 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 5: to pay ten x the price, and that doesn't trickle 491 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 5: down to the artists. 492 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 6: So that was That's what Live Nation would say, is 493 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 6: the issue. 494 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: That's I think part of what's happening. And I have 495 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: this sense as somebody. I also buy a lot of 496 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 2: Mets tickets and I'm a season ticket holder or whatever, 497 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: and what I've noticed is it seems like because of 498 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,399 Speaker 2: the secondary market, you have companies like Live Nation as 499 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: well as teams FIFA whoever, are trying to essentially claim 500 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 2: more of the sale price. Instead of charging a low 501 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 2: price and then allowing a secondary market seller to jacket up, 502 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: they just charge a high fee from the very beginning. 503 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 2: And you can see why that's attractive to Live Nation, 504 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 2: You could see it why it's attractive to an artist, 505 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 2: but for a fan it sucks. And you have these 506 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 2: Beyonce fans who are complaining that they paid hundreds of 507 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 2: dollars in a pre sale and then the secondary market 508 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: is they're actually going for substantially less. Same thing is 509 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 2: happening to a lot of sporting events. We've seen the 510 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 2: prices of World Cup tickets right now in the secondary 511 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: market actually below the sort of entry point price. 512 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's all supply and demand. So you 513 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 5: have this tension where naturally, if you're an artist and 514 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 5: you see that you sold your tickets for two hundred 515 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 5: bucks and now they're going for fifteen hundred bucks and 516 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 5: you don't get any of the fifteen hundred dollars. But actually, 517 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 5: maybe in some cases Live Nation is taking a fee 518 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 5: on the resale In addition to the primary you're like, wait, okay, 519 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 5: I'm underpricing myself. And some artists might be okay with 520 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 5: that because they view it as fan service, but other 521 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 5: artists are now leaning into this idea of the dynamic pricing, 522 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 5: which I think is what you're talking about, which is 523 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 5: where it's like Uber. Depending on the demand that the 524 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 5: platform is seeing, the prices go up or down. It 525 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 5: can change between sessions within minutes of each other. And 526 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,239 Speaker 5: so that's added fuel to this fire of how much 527 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 5: does this actually cost? And then in the resale market, 528 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 5: if the demand wasn't actually there that they thought, because 529 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 5: these are typically professional operations that are doing the reselling, 530 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 5: they might drop the ticket because they're like, we want 531 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 5: to sell it, we don't want to hold on to this. 532 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 5: Where a professional operation that has hundreds of tickets. 533 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 2: That we bought. 534 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 3: So given all of this, are we going to see 535 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: prices for tickets go down? There is a big secondary market. 536 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 3: I think Live Nation maybe not entirely wrong. That's a 537 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: lot of where the higher ticket prices are coming. We 538 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 3: do have this slap on the wrist. All this embarrassing 539 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 3: stuff was exposed. Are thing is going to get better 540 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 3: for people who want to go to fifty hours of 541 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 3: German opera or see Taylor Swift. 542 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,120 Speaker 6: I am skeptical things will improve. 543 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 5: Let's just say other ticket platforms can now compete against 544 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 5: ticket Master. The issue is that those fees, in addition 545 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 5: to going to the ticketing platform, also go to the venue, 546 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 5: and the venue needs those fees to make money because 547 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 5: they don't get any of the face value. They might 548 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 5: get the concessions and maybe the parting parking depending on 549 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 5: the situation, but that's not enough to run a venue. 550 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 5: And a lot of these stadiums, for example, have sports 551 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 5: teams that only play certain parts of the year, and 552 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 5: so they need to be making concerts are very profitable. 553 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 5: They need to be making those fee dollars to pay 554 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 5: their rent or keep operations. So yeah, I think even 555 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 5: if you have a different ticketing platform in there, I 556 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 5: don't know that there's incentive to necessarily reduce the fees. 557 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 3: So they just pay the fine and all goes back 558 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 3: to the same Well. 559 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 5: They could theoretically get broken up. We don't know what 560 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 5: the judge is going to do, and then that would 561 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 5: actually be beneficial for other ticketing platforms that think that 562 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 5: they will be able to compete more fairly because Live 563 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 5: Nation isn't also doing the promotions and putting their own 564 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 5: promoted artists into their own venues, and the other venues 565 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 5: that don't use Ticketmaster will feel, oh, maybe now we 566 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 5: have a real shot at competing against Ticketmaster operated or 567 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 5: Ticketmaster ticketed venues and Live Nation operated venues. 568 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: We talk all the time on this show about the 569 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: K shaped economy, like this idea that a greater than 570 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 2: ever share of the economic value is being created at 571 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 2: the very top ends talking about very expensive cars or 572 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: at restaurants, the fact that a lot of the revenue 573 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 2: is coming from like these crazy bottles of wine that 574 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: are being sold and then like nothing else. And this 575 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 2: feels like a particularly unfortunate example to me of the 576 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 2: K shaped economy. When you combine the use of dynamic 577 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: pricing these like crazy fees and the fact that like 578 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 2: music and sports are important parts of our culture and 579 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: like turning them over to this kind of weird bottle 580 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 2: service style approach to making money. It just feels gross. 581 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: And you know, as somebody who enjoys going to live 582 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: sports and stuff, it's really put me off. I've basically 583 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: just decided like, I'm not going to go to the 584 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 2: World Cup even though it's here. It's right here, and 585 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 2: I love sports and I want to spend the money, 586 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 2: but I'm not going to do it because I don't 587 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: want to deal with this. And I wonder at some 588 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: point whether that starts to become a factor or whether 589 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 2: you can just go on like this for US charging 590 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 2: hundreds or even thousands of dollars to see Taylor Swift 591 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: or whatever. 592 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 5: Isn't this sort of like the housing market in New York. 593 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 5: The rens keep going up, but people keep paying it 594 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 5: so until someone puts their foot down and ticket prices 595 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 5: will drop. To your point, people have seen if they 596 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 5: don't buy the ticket until the last minute, or maybe 597 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 5: on the resale market, the actual show didn't sell as well. 598 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 6: So now there's a lot of empty seats. 599 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 5: Or there's just a lot of tickets available, those ticket 600 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 5: prices do drop. So I think there are techniques that 601 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 5: people are developing, like I'm gonna wait till the day of. 602 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 5: I did that for a concert actually pretty recently, where 603 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 5: I waited till the day of and I got really 604 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 5: awesome seats for a lot. 605 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 3: You like rolled the dice, What did you see. 606 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 6: I took my husband's mom to see Mark Anthony. 607 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and how was it? 608 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: It was great? 609 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 5: Okay, wait, we had awesome seats and I think I 610 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 5: paid maybe ninety bucks each and it was lovely. 611 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: Ashley Carmon, thanks for being here, Thanks for having me. 612 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: All right, Stacey, it's underrated story time. What do you 613 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 2: have for us? 614 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 3: I've got tariffs. Well, today it got real, or this 615 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: week it got real because the court struck the tariffs 616 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 3: down or some of them, and the Trump yes, exactly 617 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 3: some of them. And then the Trump administration was ordered 618 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 3: or the federal government was ordered to give the money 619 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 3: back to one hundred and six hundred and sixty billion 620 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 3: dollars like more than half a million US companies and 621 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 3: companies all over the world. But they all have to 622 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 3: go register for their refund. This is not this does 623 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: not happen automatically. So there is a website and a 624 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 3: portal that you have to sign up for and a 625 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 3: whole process. Every single time you imported anything, you have 626 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 3: to put in another complaint essentially, and to get your 627 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 3: money back. And in order to figure this portal out, 628 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 3: to navigate this brave new portal, you have to watch 629 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 3: a video. So the video dropped and like hundreds and 630 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of businesses trying to get their money 631 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 3: back are now trying to tune into this video and 632 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 3: log onto this portal. And I watched the video. It's 633 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 3: kind of funny and I wanted to play it for 634 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: you for undraded, sorry, because I think you'll enjoy it. 635 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 2: All right, let's give a listen. 636 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 11: Hello, and welcome to CVP's webinar for Electronic refund enrollment 637 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 11: in the Age Portal. Today, I'll guide you through CBP's 638 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 11: Electronic refund process. Center the related information from the email 639 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 11: and establish a pass, select the agreement checkbox, and then 640 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 11: select the sign up button. However, when you sign up 641 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 11: for your account, you will receive a verification token email 642 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 11: and must complete that step before moving forward. We are 643 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 11: now logged into the Age Portal as a trade account owner. 644 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 11: Thank you for watching. 645 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 3: Also, apparently the portal's been crashing. It's hard to use. 646 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 2: Everybody's where is the East Wing Ballroom of webinars? I'm 647 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: just asking, where is the you know, Trump Hotel of webinars? 648 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: Feel like they this is an administration that knows how 649 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: to do something flashy and they've really they. 650 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 3: Don't want people to get refunds. 651 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 2: That's true, right, And then yeah, I mean that brings 652 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 2: us to Actually, it's funny that you had this as 653 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: your underrated because my underrated story is related tariffs. Yeah, 654 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 2: so you're talking about one thing that could happen, which 655 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: is businesses could go onto this website, they could watch 656 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,479 Speaker 2: the webinar, they could get they could slog through this. 657 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: They could enter the tokens or whatever it is, request 658 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: their money back, maybe get the money back. Donald Trump 659 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: went on TV earlier this week and offered a different suggestion, 660 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 2: which is maybe they just don't ask for their money back. 661 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 3: Why wouldn't they ask for their money back? 662 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 2: Trump said that it would be quote brilliant if they 663 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 2: don't do that. And if they don't do that, I'll 664 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 2: remember them. 665 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 3: Oh so if they just like let the tariffs fees, that. 666 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: Trump say is saying, what if you just let us 667 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 2: keep the money? How about that? And there's a little 668 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: bit of a threat maybe in saying I don't know 669 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 2: if it's a threat or an inducement or something. If 670 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 2: you don't fill out this form, maybe Trump will be 671 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 2: a little nicer to you in the future, which has 672 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 2: I kind of can't decide if it's Godfather. 673 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 3: Leads a gun, take the canoli or It. 674 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 2: Also reminds me of like the dynamic when you like 675 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: split a bill with people and there's sort of a 676 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 2: weird dance that happens. 677 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 3: Like dude, I had an appetizer and you had like yeah, 678 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 3: but we'll see, I mean, we'll see if this works. 679 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 2: There are a lot of company Stacey, you know this, 680 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: and there many of them are very small. It's hard 681 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,040 Speaker 2: to imagine that Trump will remember every single one that 682 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 2: doesn't ask for their their tariff money back. What's the 683 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 2: thing in the Godfather like you got to ask on 684 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: the night of his daughter's You can ask for any 685 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: favor on. 686 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 3: The come to me today on the day of my 687 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 3: daughter's wedding to ask me for a favor. 688 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: That's the nay that you ask for your refund back. 689 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 3: Oh, you go to him on the day of his 690 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 3: daughter's wedding. 691 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, because he can't turn it down, right, isn't that 692 00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:57,879 Speaker 2: the deal? 693 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 3: Yes? But I feel like he could still re Yeah, 694 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 3: he could still remember. He could still remember one day 695 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 3: and that day may not be soon. He's going to 696 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 3: come to you for a favor. This show is produced 697 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 3: by Jasmine JT. Green and Stacy Wong. Magnus Hendrickson is 698 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 3: our supervising producer, Sam Roga Chandle's engineering, and Dave Purcell factchecks. 699 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 3: Special thanks to Jeff Muscus, Julia Rubin, and Maria Ling. 700 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 3: If you have a minute, please rate and review the show. 701 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 3: It means a lot to us, And if you have 702 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 3: a story that should be our business, please send us 703 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 3: an email. Everybody's at Bloomberg dot net. That's everybody's with 704 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 3: an s at Bloomberg dot net. 705 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: A voice Memo'll take your. 706 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 3: Voice memo, Yes, and you can send that right to 707 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 3: maxis Cell. Yeah, thanks for listening. We'll see you next week.