Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
Speaker 1: it with the beck Del Cast. Hello and welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante and my
Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftuz. Happy three year anniversary, Jamie. I
Speaker 1: know this is so exciting. It doesn't feel like it's
Speaker 1: been that long. But it also it's been like the
Speaker 1: weirdest three years in the history of the country, so
Speaker 1: it also feels like forever true congratulations, congratulations to you.
Speaker 1: Here we are. We just got fished. Talk us. We
Speaker 1: just all still a vista babies least bitch now this
Speaker 1: sweet we neo lived in We did it so today.
Speaker 1: That is why it's just the two of us, just
Speaker 1: the two of us. We're doing a little celebratory three
Speaker 1: year anniversary episode. We got our fish tacos. We watched
Speaker 1: two movies, not one, and I'm excited about it. Yes,
Speaker 1: So before we jump in, just the regular biz out
Speaker 1: of the way. Oh yeah, what is the podcast? What
Speaker 1: is who are we? What have we been doing for
Speaker 1: three years? Good Lord? Honestly, existential couldn't tell you. Well.
Speaker 1: This is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Uh,
Speaker 1: and it is based around or As a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for our discussion, we use the Bechtel test, Yes,
Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bectel Wallace test. Absolutely, and that is
Speaker 1: of course a media metric developed by cartoonists Alison Bechtel
Speaker 1: that requires that two female identifying characters in a movie
Speaker 1: have to have names, they have to talk to each
Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for at least
Speaker 1: two lines. By our standards, are are relatively low standards changed,
Speaker 1: it's time to I mean, it's the tricky as if
Speaker 1: we demand more nothing from that exactly. Oh what a nightmare.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe we should have gone. It would be
Speaker 1: funny if we were, like, I think you start a
Speaker 1: feminist movie podcast or James Cameron fan podcast. This episode
Speaker 1: would have a little bit of a James Cameron is
Speaker 1: was it was going multitudes going on with that person.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Terminators today because the new one just
Speaker 1: came out about a month ago. I I did not
Speaker 1: see it. I saw it, and I have a little
Speaker 1: bit to say so, so if you haven't seen it yet,
Speaker 1: I'll give us spoiler warning a spoiler warning, but we'll
Speaker 1: talk about that a little later on. But these are
Speaker 1: some of my favorite movies, which is why I insisted
Speaker 1: that we do them. So what is it? What is
Speaker 1: your history with the Terminator franchise? And like these two specifically,
Speaker 1: by the way, we're coming the Terminator and Terminator to
Speaker 1: Judgment Day. Correct. I saw them both when I was
Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Yes, because my family owned not unlike
Speaker 1: the James Cameron Titanic two VHS tapes, did they sell
Speaker 1: it in a bundle? Yes, so my family had the
Speaker 1: T one and T two VHS bundle box set and
Speaker 1: they were in my house for a few years, but
Speaker 1: I just didn't pay them any mind. And then one
Speaker 1: day I was like, I'm sixteen years old, It's time
Speaker 1: for me to watch Terminator and Passage. And I watched
Speaker 1: them both on the same day, back to back, and
Speaker 1: I loved them, especially T two, which is I think
Speaker 1: widely considered the favorite the better movie, although there I
Speaker 1: I met a number of people who like Terminator one better. Uh,
Speaker 1: and I think they're silly, but also, you know, to
Speaker 1: each of them, but yeah, I would I would rank
Speaker 1: T two among my like top ten favorite movies of
Speaker 1: all time. But to this day I love that movie particularly,
Speaker 1: and just I mean, well, okay, so then I saw
Speaker 1: those and I was like, I guess I'm a huge
Speaker 1: Terminator fan now, so I have been for you know,
Speaker 1: going on fifteen plus years. I saw a Terminator three
Speaker 1: Rise of the Machines in theaters. It was terrible bad.
Speaker 1: I saw a Terminator Salvation in theaters it was like fine,
Speaker 1: but I never felt the need to watch it again.
Speaker 1: Skipped Terminator Genesis and Denis Connor. Right, yeah, but then
Speaker 1: I did see Terminator Dark Fate on opening day. Okay,
Speaker 1: what's your history, Jamie. Nothing. I didn't care about him, honestly,
Speaker 1: not crazy about him. Now. I liked T Too a
Speaker 1: lot from a feminist perspective. There's a lot about T
Speaker 1: two in particular to love. I love watching Sarah Connor
Speaker 1: kick ass. It's just not if you've been listening to
Speaker 1: the podcast, this is never going to be a movie
Speaker 1: that appeals to me. I don't like eighties blockbusters in general.
Speaker 1: I get dragged in the reviews sometimes and I have
Speaker 1: this to say, sorry for being so fucking young. No,
Speaker 1: I just I've never seen these before. Prepping for this
Speaker 1: episode because I intuited that they were not for me,
Speaker 1: and that was generally true. I think that there's a
Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff to talk about, though, I am,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to talk about it, but especially like
Speaker 1: Terminator one in particular, I'm just like, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: the effects are pretty of the time, just like the
Speaker 1: Stinth score that's happening. I mean, it's fun, it's fun,
Speaker 1: but it's like pretty silly, I like respect to place
Speaker 1: in history and all that, and it is kind of
Speaker 1: cool from like a filmmaking perspective to see like a
Speaker 1: movie that clearly was not being set up to have
Speaker 1: a sequel, then have a sequel and have a sequel
Speaker 1: piece so much better because I feel like that very
Speaker 1: rarely happened through And also stuff for Paddington too, of course,
Speaker 1: but like I mean, of course, I mean those are
Speaker 1: the two major majorally cited one, T one and T
Speaker 1: two and P one and P two and depending on
Speaker 1: who you are, the Cheetah girls. Uh yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: I just never gotten around to seeing it, and you
Speaker 1: know now I can't say that anymore. And that's my
Speaker 1: history with the Terminator franchise. I'm not going to see
Speaker 1: the new one because I have to go see Parasite
Speaker 1: five more times. Of course. Yeah, well should we dive
Speaker 1: into the recap? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So i'll
Speaker 1: and I'll do my best to do a more condensed
Speaker 1: version of the recap than usual for both movies, since
Speaker 1: we are covering two. So if, if, if things aren't
Speaker 1: as through as you like. Um, we do have to
Speaker 1: remind you after three years, it is still a free podcast.
Speaker 1: We've been very defensive lately. I mean, honestly, people are
Speaker 1: coming at us more and more like read a book.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Uh, we were not really required to read
Speaker 1: a book. First of all, we have never purported to
Speaker 1: have read a book. True, and we never will nor would. Wait. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the Terminator four, But we open in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: ever heard of it? In nine? It's a post apocalyptic wasteland.
Speaker 1: Little did they know that we were not even going
Speaker 1: to survive until yeah, or that might actually be the
Speaker 1: last year. Maybe they were right anyways, true yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but there's a war happening between humans and machines. Then
Speaker 1: we cut back to l A. In four, two people
Speaker 1: show up out of thin air. One of them is
Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is a terminator who has been sent
Speaker 1: back in time to kill Sarah Connor. And you see
Speaker 1: his butt, you see use but you see that. I
Speaker 1: mean the newddy choices in this movie are I think
Speaker 1: very interesting. True, there's more male nudity than female duty
Speaker 1: than never happens. The other is Kyle Reese, a soldier
Speaker 1: from the Human Resistance in the future who is sent
Speaker 1: back to protect Sarah Connor. Uh. Then we meet Sarah Connor.
Speaker 1: She is a young woman. She works as a server,
Speaker 1: but the reason she's being targeted by the Terminator is
Speaker 1: because she is the mother of John Connor, the leader
Speaker 1: of the Human Resistance in the war against the Machines
Speaker 1: in the future, which is good because we all know
Speaker 1: that the value of a woman is ascribed to whose
Speaker 1: mother she is. Right, Oh, yes, we'll talk all about that. Um.
Speaker 1: And the Machines figure out that if they can go
Speaker 1: back in time and kill John Connor's mother, then they
Speaker 1: won't have to deal with John Connor. So both Reese
Speaker 1: and the Terminator get their hands on some guns and
Speaker 1: then they go to try to find Sarah. The Terminator
Speaker 1: starts killing every Sarah Connor in the phone book, and
Speaker 1: then he goes to kill Sarah at home, only she's
Speaker 1: not home, but her roommate Ginger is, and the terminator
Speaker 1: kills her thinking it's Sarah, right right after she has
Speaker 1: sex because it's the eighties, right, because women who have
Speaker 1: sex in a you know, scary movie have to die.
Speaker 1: But again, at least the man dies as well. True. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the deaths of these other Sarah Connors are being reported
Speaker 1: on on the news and Sarah here's about it, so
Speaker 1: naturally she starts freaking out. And also at this time,
Speaker 1: Sarah notices that this dude is stalking her. It's Reese,
Speaker 1: but she assumes that it's the guy who's been killing
Speaker 1: these other Sarah Connors. Well, but as we know, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: the guy who is talking you actually is your husband,
Speaker 1: is your baby daddy is? I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of good lessons right at the top. So then the
Speaker 1: terminator figures out where Sarah is and he goes to
Speaker 1: kill her, but Reese intercepts him and saves Sarah by
Speaker 1: shooting the terminator. Except it's really hard to kill terminators,
Speaker 1: so he gets back up and keeps chasing them, and
Speaker 1: then Reese is like Sarah, come with me if you
Speaker 1: want to live. So they escape, and Sarah's like, what
Speaker 1: the fuck? Who are you? What's going on, which in
Speaker 1: fair legitimate questions, and Reese explains everything that I explained
Speaker 1: just a moment ago, including how the Terminator is a
Speaker 1: cyborg right armored alloy endoskeleton underneath living human tissue. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of this movie that is just things being
Speaker 1: explained to a woman, the alleged protagonist of the movie,
Speaker 1: and also that this Terminator will not stop until Sarah
Speaker 1: Connor is dead. He also explains the nuclear war that
Speaker 1: will take place a few years from now, that the
Speaker 1: machine started because they became artificially intelligent, and more about
Speaker 1: that in Terminator Too. Oh. Meanwhile, the Terminator is still
Speaker 1: chasing them, and he has terminator vision, so he's very
Speaker 1: god finding them great. It's given it's like target detected
Speaker 1: and where it's like computer enhanced and hands some great
Speaker 1: hack for sure. And then there's a car chase, a crash,
Speaker 1: and then Sarah and Reese are taken into police custody
Speaker 1: and a criminal psychologist, Dr Silberman talks to them and everyone,
Speaker 1: based on the information that Reese gives thinks that Reese
Speaker 1: is crazy because he's claiming to be a time traveler
Speaker 1: from the future who was sent back to stop a
Speaker 1: cyborg from killing Sarah. Right, So they're like, he is delusional,
Speaker 1: and she is also not sure at this point whether
Speaker 1: she believes him either. Right. And then the Terminator shows
Speaker 1: up at the police station and we get the famous
Speaker 1: I'll be back line and he kills several of the
Speaker 1: police officers, but Reese manages to get loose. He and
Speaker 1: Sarah escape again, and Reese tells Sarah he's like, by
Speaker 1: the way, my name is Kyle. And then we realize
Speaker 1: that there's Kyle visibility in this movie. I know, you're like, Wow,
Speaker 1: we're really making space for Kyle's here. I mean, shout
Speaker 1: out to all our Kyle fans on it, but also like,
Speaker 1: take a good long look at the mirror. Um okay.
Speaker 1: So then they go to a motel and Reese makes
Speaker 1: some bombs to try to kill the terminator with, and
Speaker 1: then he makes the love and then he makes them
Speaker 1: love in what I am so excited to describe later
Speaker 1: it's it's James Cameron's Pervy Corner. Oh, we're going to
Speaker 1: read the script. I'm so thrilled I can't wait. Oh,
Speaker 1: it's disgusting. So then the terminator finds them again, and
Speaker 1: there's another chase scene in a big explosion which melts
Speaker 1: off the terminators like fleshy exterior hot hot literally and figuratively,
Speaker 1: and he chases Sarah and Reese through what I think
Speaker 1: like a robotics factory, some kind of factory and it
Speaker 1: looks expensive. Yeah, Reese gets killed, and then Sarah finally
Speaker 1: crushes the terminator in a hydraulic press and then she
Speaker 1: said terminated. Fucker. We're like, we're like, whoa, she got
Speaker 1: to do something made you wait to the end. But uh.
Speaker 1: And then we cut to a few months later and
Speaker 1: she is gregnant. She is greek net as heck with
Speaker 1: her son John Greg greg Connor. I mean, wouldn't have
Speaker 1: killed them to call him greg wouldn't have. Wouldn't have
Speaker 1: because Kyle Reee made her gregnant. He Greek nodded her
Speaker 1: the yeah for one one shot Kyle over there. Really
Speaker 1: fertile guy that Kyle or her, I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: we don't know. Maybe they're both very fertile group effort
Speaker 1: after all. And then we see her recording what's basically
Speaker 1: a podcast, her for her son, her son John Greg
Speaker 1: greg and that is the end of that movie. Now
Speaker 1: for Terminator to Judgment Day, which is another biblical reference.
Speaker 1: Inside of what we can't deny is the fourteen bajiliant
Speaker 1: Christ narrative trying to not be a Christ narrative. That's
Speaker 1: very true. But until you said that earlier, when we
Speaker 1: were watching T two, it had never crossed my mind
Speaker 1: that this was a Christ narrative. I feel like it's
Speaker 1: because I'm just seeing it though, Like if I had
Speaker 1: seen it when I was young, I wouldn't have. But
Speaker 1: now I'm just I'm so sickly. Even movies I'm loving
Speaker 1: right now are still about fathers and sons. I'm so
Speaker 1: I love Parasite. I'll see it a million times. It's
Speaker 1: not even the spoiler. It's a father and son joint.
Speaker 1: You're just like, I've just we get it. It's complicated
Speaker 1: for you guys. There's been a I just whatever, it's
Speaker 1: a father and son. And then this, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: for T two especially. So we open with some more
Speaker 1: shots of l A nine being a post apocalyptic wasteland.
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor's voiceover kicks in saying that three billion lives
Speaker 1: ended on August. That's some like four ship some snappy
Speaker 1: snappy snappy the finger. Oh no, I'm Sanos. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: not to brag, but I'm fucking cool and I don't
Speaker 1: see those movies. Well I'm cool and I do see them.
Speaker 1: Mr Thanos and his little glovy. Yes, but this time
Speaker 1: is Skynet, which is the name of my external hard drive.
Speaker 1: I named it Skynet. Really, there's also a real Skynet now,
Speaker 1: like there's a government project called Skynet, which yikes, I
Speaker 1: hate anyway, So August nine is with has been deemed
Speaker 1: Judgment Day from the people in the future because of
Speaker 1: this nuclear attack that was initiated by the machines. Right,
Speaker 1: So then we cut back to I think it's either
Speaker 1: ninety five. I think it is. Wait, let me check,
Speaker 1: because I think it maybe for some reason, is when
Speaker 1: Judgment Day happens. It's a few years before that. Okay,
Speaker 1: never mind, it's and two people show up out of
Speaker 1: thin air again. One of them is Arnold Schwarzenegger and
Speaker 1: he's bad to the bone. Oh my god. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then we're like, okay, we know this scene was done
Speaker 1: better in the Parent Trap, but nice effort. Jimmy Cams
Speaker 1: and then the other person is Robert Patrick from Spy
Speaker 1: Kids Fame, his best known role. That's all we care
Speaker 1: that he's done, yes, And both of them are trying
Speaker 1: to reach young John Connor. One of them is trying
Speaker 1: to kill him and one is trying to protect him.
Speaker 1: Greg Greg Sorry, So Greg Connor has been living in
Speaker 1: foster care for the past few years because his mom,
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor ever heard of her, has been in a
Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital because everyone thinks she is delusional when she
Speaker 1: talks about Judgment Day and time traveling killer cyborgs, and
Speaker 1: she's trying to escape a number of times. Uh, And
Speaker 1: it seems like she's gotten close, but they keep putting
Speaker 1: her under more and more surveillance, and so now she's
Speaker 1: focused on getting very very strong, right, she's doing pull
Speaker 1: up pull ups. Doctor Body Dr Silberman from the first
Speaker 1: movie is there and he's the one who's like she
Speaker 1: is like under his supervision. Um. Then we cut two
Speaker 1: Cyberdyne systems where this dude, Miles Dyson is using technology
Speaker 1: from the terminator that Sarah Connor crushed in the first
Speaker 1: movie to develop other technology. Meanwhile, John Greg Connor Greg
Speaker 1: is at a greg. He is at a shopping mall
Speaker 1: which may or may not be the Glendelle Gallerria. We
Speaker 1: don't know, Headcannon, it's the Glendale Galleria, and we're like,
Speaker 1: go across the street to the Americana right good side? Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: And the two guys who showed up in the beginning
Speaker 1: are both after him. And just when you think Arnold
Speaker 1: Schwarzenegger is the bad Terminator again psych he's the protector.
Speaker 1: He's a nice one. The first time I saw this
Speaker 1: when I was sixteen years old, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: my fucking good one. And he's but he's like he
Speaker 1: pulls the gun out of the box of roses and
Speaker 1: then he sticks on the rose and you think he's
Speaker 1: going to kill John Connor, but just kidding. He saves him.
Speaker 1: So that means the other guy is the bad Terminator
Speaker 1: and he is a T one thousand, a more advanced
Speaker 1: model Arnold that he can turn into like animorphus goop.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it look like he looks like an animal, like
Speaker 1: if animals had a way bigger. But I'm guessing that's
Speaker 1: why animals was ripping off, like they were trying to
Speaker 1: do that effect. Did you ever watch animal didn't know
Speaker 1: it was a TV show about kids that could remember
Speaker 1: the books. Yeah, and they would turn into like Silver
Speaker 1: Group and they're like, I'm an well now kind of
Speaker 1: reminded me of that. Yeah, he's made of like liquid
Speaker 1: metal and he can shape shift and then also like
Speaker 1: turn his arms into swords. It kind of looks like
Speaker 1: a screen saver too, the way that the liquid metal looks.
Speaker 1: It looks like an old screen saver, right, I mean
Speaker 1: it's like c G I, which was like just the
Speaker 1: very beginning of c G I, but it's like it's
Speaker 1: pretty Yeah, No, it's cool. I mean, even like seeing
Speaker 1: the guys shape shift between different people and into Google
Speaker 1: like it is, it still looks scary. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: John Connor is like, hey, Arnold, ha, we gotta go
Speaker 1: get my mom. So they drive and go to pick
Speaker 1: up Sarah Connor, but she's already like halfway escaped from
Speaker 1: the hospital. In a scene that I now realize kill
Speaker 1: Bill is very much ripping off potentially, Um, I feel
Speaker 1: like there's no way. I mean, it's like Quentin Tarantino's
Speaker 1: Saw Terminator too, like because there's i mean, the beats
Speaker 1: are pretty close to identical where it's Sarah Connor. I mean,
Speaker 1: what happens to Uma Thurman's character is like a more
Speaker 1: severe assault, but she's assaulted while she's unconscious. She comes
Speaker 1: to and she kills everyone in the hospital or you know,
Speaker 1: injures them beyond and and then is able to escape. Yeah. True,
Speaker 1: it's exciting. So yeah, she's she's well on her way
Speaker 1: to escaping. But then she sees Arnold, who she thinks
Speaker 1: it's still a bad terminator, but her son John Slash
Speaker 1: Gregg is like, no, he's good. Now can you imagine
Speaker 1: the e T S. D of It's got to be
Speaker 1: a lot to hear. There's a lot. I mean, well,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. But the thought about that. Arnold says,
Speaker 1: come with me if you want to live, and that's
Speaker 1: the same thing that Kyle Reyes said to her. So
Speaker 1: she's like, I guess I got my boyfriend said that,
Speaker 1: who I still love. I guess it's okay. So they
Speaker 1: all meet up and then they get the hell out
Speaker 1: of there and they go and gather some weapons, and
Speaker 1: then Sarah goes after Miles Dyson, thinking that if she
Speaker 1: kills him, she can prevent the impending war. He's doing
Speaker 1: all the work to create what will eventually become Skynett.
Speaker 1: This is one of my favorite moments in the movie
Speaker 1: because I wasn't sure where this moment is going to go,
Speaker 1: and end up being pretty cool, right, because she can't
Speaker 1: bring herself to kill him because she's not a terminator
Speaker 1: after all. She's wait for it, a mother, a mother
Speaker 1: because she's in front of his family and so forth, right,
Speaker 1: so instead she John, Arnold Miles go to Cyberdyne and
Speaker 1: they destroy all of Miles Dyson's work on Skynet. Miles
Speaker 1: ends up being like a hero. Yeah, yes, and I
Speaker 1: hate that he has to die, and we'll talk about
Speaker 1: that as well. But the cops show up and then
Speaker 1: Bad Terminator shows up and there's a big chase and
Speaker 1: they end up in this steel mill and there's like
Speaker 1: the fun liquid nitrogen slash, like bad Terminator gets frozen
Speaker 1: and Arnold's like, ah, still a Vista baby, but the
Speaker 1: Bad Terminator melts himself back together, and then there's some
Speaker 1: more fighting and it's long. It's quite long, um. But
Speaker 1: then eventually they managed to kill the Bad Terminator and
Speaker 1: melt him for good in the liquid steel and then
Speaker 1: Arnold Terminator is like, hey, wait a minute. You have
Speaker 1: to kill me too because my CPU chip has to
Speaker 1: be destroyed. And it's sad because he's daddy. Now he's daddy. Now,
Speaker 1: it's right. Greg can't catch a break and he's so
Speaker 1: upset he watches his daddy go into lava. You're just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, what is poor Greg? Yes, um, hey, Jamie, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed this in the movie,
Speaker 1: but when they go to pick up Sarah Connor from
Speaker 1: the hospital, there's a sign at some point that says
Speaker 1: she's in Pascadero. That's a six hour That's like, there's
Speaker 1: no need to think about how large California is. But
Speaker 1: they're traveling in state. But that's not to say that
Speaker 1: it isn't a very long voyage. And there's like, I
Speaker 1: think something that Sarah Connor really could have used. Tell me,
Speaker 1: what do you think it is? Well? I think this
Speaker 1: is very graceful transition into talking about away suitcases. Away
Speaker 1: Caitlin creates thoughtful products built for the way modern travelers
Speaker 1: see the world, not those future duface is like Sarah
Speaker 1: Connor people of now, they started with the perfect suits
Speaker 1: and now they offer a range of essentials, all of
Speaker 1: which would have made Sarah Connors travels more seamless. And
Speaker 1: you think she'd know that, seeing as she's from the
Speaker 1: near future. You would think you'd think, well, we have
Speaker 1: some away suitcases. We got some, we got some. We've
Speaker 1: used them recently. Recently we went to Denver for our
Speaker 1: live shows and then I just used mine to go
Speaker 1: across country to Boston and genuinely like, it's my new
Speaker 1: prop suitcase for the show I travel with, because it's
Speaker 1: just like I genuinely really I really enjoyed my away
Speaker 1: suitcase and it's cute. I've never had one that had
Speaker 1: like four wheels. Three sixty wheels are good. Yeah, before
Speaker 1: I got my away suitcases, I was just like dragging
Speaker 1: my old ones around the cotton or whatever, gravel, whatever.
Speaker 1: But what we're trying to say here is that all
Speaker 1: of the Way's suitcases are thoughtfully designed to last a
Speaker 1: lifetime with They've got durable exterior shells. They can withstand
Speaker 1: even the roughest and toughest of baggage handlers. The inside
Speaker 1: is cool. It has like a bunch of different pockets
Speaker 1: and a whole interior organization system. What I like is
Speaker 1: that there's like compartments so that your shoes aren't going
Speaker 1: to touch your stuff, and just like stuff I hadn't
Speaker 1: even thought about, and I just was like, oh, I
Speaker 1: guess my shoes will touch my stuff and I don't care.
Speaker 1: But now I can care because you know, and you
Speaker 1: can separate clean and dirty clothes. It's really nice. And
Speaker 1: there's a t s A approved combo lock that keeps
Speaker 1: your belonging safe. Caitlin, My combo is zero zero zero
Speaker 1: zero for extra security, but you could make a real
Speaker 1: one theoretically if you know how those sorts of things work.
Speaker 1: You know what Jamie I do and I did, Oh wow,
Speaker 1: but you're not going to discuss it. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: woman's heart is a notion of secrets. Other things to know,
Speaker 1: Away products are designed to last a lifetime. As we said,
Speaker 1: so if any part of your sight case, every rags
Speaker 1: always standout, customer service team will arrange to have it
Speaker 1: fixed or replaced. We also didn't even mention that there's
Speaker 1: a phone charger in the Away suitcase, which there's like
Speaker 1: a little battery pack, portable battery pack. You can plug
Speaker 1: your phone into it. It's it's a lifesaver. There's also
Speaker 1: a one hundred day trial on everything that Away makes,
Speaker 1: so you can take your product out on the road.
Speaker 1: You can go to Pescadero from l A if you
Speaker 1: want to. You can there in the future, which is
Speaker 1: now our past, confusing, it's weird. You can go any
Speaker 1: manner of places tested out, travel with it everything, and
Speaker 1: if you decide it's not for you, you can return
Speaker 1: any non personalized item for a full refund during that
Speaker 1: one hundred day period, no ifs and or puts, and
Speaker 1: they offer free shipping returns on any order within the
Speaker 1: contiguous US, Europe, Canada, and Australia. So I truly and
Speaker 1: my mom. The other day I saw my mom when
Speaker 1: I was in Boston and she looked at my suitcase
Speaker 1: and she was like, what is that? And I was like,
Speaker 1: it's my new suitcase and I didn't use a brand name,
Speaker 1: and she was like, I heard your podcast. Is that
Speaker 1: In a way, So my mom's a listener and a
Speaker 1: fan and she might actually get one. And the way
Speaker 1: she's going to do it is with our special lapera
Speaker 1: code for twenty dollars off in any suitcase or bag.
Speaker 1: You want to be like my mom, visit away travel
Speaker 1: dot com slash TBC and use promo code TBC during checkout. Again,
Speaker 1: that's twenty off any suitcase or bag. Visit away travel
Speaker 1: dot Com slash TBC and use promo code TBC during
Speaker 1: check out. All right, let's check in on Sarah Connor.
Speaker 1: All right, well, I guess, I mean, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot to talk about here. It's so we're gonna attempt
Speaker 1: to do a discussion that kind of spans both of
Speaker 1: the movies, but we'll probably be clicking in and out.
Speaker 1: Bear with us, Sarah. I mean, Sarah Connor obviously is
Speaker 1: the main character worth discussing, and she's fortune, I mean,
Speaker 1: I would say the best remembered character from the movie,
Speaker 1: even though Arnold is also I don't know, maybe they're tied. No, definitely,
Speaker 1: Arnold is far more. Really, god damn it, they're the
Speaker 1: second one ends up being a lot more than right
Speaker 1: out there. And then she also she also got her
Speaker 1: own TV series, The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which I admittedly
Speaker 1: never watched. Well, Caitly and you're canceled. I mean, like
Speaker 1: the fact that like Arnold is on the poster for
Speaker 1: both movies, like that string shows like who's potentially the
Speaker 1: more valued character in this franchise, but Sarah Connor for
Speaker 1: our purposes, she's by far the most right. But but
Speaker 1: I think it is kind of fascinating to watch how
Speaker 1: she is treated differently in both movies. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's like one of those cool things where you can
Speaker 1: see kind of you know, like you can track the
Speaker 1: growth of a filmmaker in the space of seven years,
Speaker 1: you can track the growth of you would imagine society
Speaker 1: a little bit in seven years where in the first
Speaker 1: Terminator Sarah Connor, I think she's still more active than
Speaker 1: a lot of female protagonists of but she's not extremely active.
Speaker 1: She is cast as a mother and a love interest
Speaker 1: for the most part until the very very very end.
Speaker 1: She's not made out to look as particularly qualified, which
Speaker 1: I think is like both one of the coolest and
Speaker 1: most frustrating things about her character, because it feels like
Speaker 1: the first movie, I feel like it's all about withholding information.
Speaker 1: She doesn't have any of the information or skills she
Speaker 1: needs to be an active participant in the first movie,
Speaker 1: and then the second one is the total opposite. She
Speaker 1: has most of the information and all of the skills
Speaker 1: she needs to survive. So it's cool, It is cool
Speaker 1: and I mean, as much as we get frustrated when
Speaker 1: a female protagonist, like in an action franchise, isn't equipped
Speaker 1: with like the skills and the information she would need
Speaker 1: to have to be a total bad that also, right,
Speaker 1: it makes sense at least in the first movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I think that that's like one of those
Speaker 1: things that it comes down to, like that was a
Speaker 1: narrative choice to give her literally no information or I
Speaker 1: just like that's one of those things where I wish,
Speaker 1: like if she doesn't have the skills, I mean that
Speaker 1: makes sense, she is an l a waitress, why would
Speaker 1: she have these combat skills? But then at least give
Speaker 1: her some information, give her something that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: she's going to have to go to like the whims
Speaker 1: and be constantly needing. I don't know. I just feel
Speaker 1: like in the first one, she never really has an
Speaker 1: upper hand until the end, And I feel like that's
Speaker 1: like a narrative issue, or it was for me, I
Speaker 1: see what you're saying. And I might be like, because
Speaker 1: I love these movies so much, like I it might
Speaker 1: be difficult for me to like separate my feelings and yeah,
Speaker 1: but like I don't know, like, yes, of course, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't make any sense for her to have combat training,
Speaker 1: and why would she have information about the future. But
Speaker 1: like then like Kyle Ree's like gives her a lot
Speaker 1: of information. Yeah, but that's her stuff. But that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is like she there's nothing she can tell him,
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I mean. Like, I feel
Speaker 1: like it wouldn't have like made the concept of the
Speaker 1: movie work less if she even at one point in
Speaker 1: the movie had information that he didn't. I was able
Speaker 1: to move the plot forward, Like if she was like, hey,
Speaker 1: there's a blockbuster around the corner that we can hide
Speaker 1: in four and you don't know what blockbuster is even
Speaker 1: like goofy four knowledge that could come into Like I
Speaker 1: just I was fresh because usually I feel like most
Speaker 1: movies will toss you a bone of like something of
Speaker 1: like I mean, obviously, you know she sort of becomes
Speaker 1: the fish out of water in her own world, but
Speaker 1: you know, there's usually something and so I was kind
Speaker 1: of like, I see what you're saying, I misunderstood before.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that yeah, that's a valid criticism for sure.
Speaker 1: Another thing with her in Terminator one is that I mean, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, my my issue with the Sarah Connor thing is.
Speaker 1: I agree that she is a feminist icon, especially in
Speaker 1: T two. I love so much about her, but it
Speaker 1: does like her whole. You know, she's she's in her twenties,
Speaker 1: she's in nineteen. She's nineteen fund the first movie, so
Speaker 1: she's nineteen, but she's twenty eight because movies. But she's nineteen.
Speaker 1: She's a waitress in l A, which you would imagine
Speaker 1: she has some sort of creative aspiration. Movie has no
Speaker 1: interest in why she's in l A, how she got there,
Speaker 1: what her dreams are, what her goals are. Two men
Speaker 1: show up and tell her this is what your life is.
Speaker 1: You will give birth to this boy, and this is
Speaker 1: and and and we only see her push back against
Speaker 1: it one time, in that scene with Kyle, where she's like,
Speaker 1: I can't even battle to checkbook, like I don't have
Speaker 1: I can't be this like you know, military hero, I
Speaker 1: can't be this terminator destroyer or whatever. And that's the
Speaker 1: only time we see her stand up for herself about like, well,
Speaker 1: what about what I want? What about my choices? Which
Speaker 1: we haven't I'm trying to be an actor over here,
Speaker 1: you would imagine trying to write audition for The for Aliens,
Speaker 1: directed by James Cameron, has come out in two years.
Speaker 1: I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta start taking classes.
Speaker 1: But the movie has I mean, it's and I and
Speaker 1: I and I know that this is a critical part
Speaker 1: of the movie working. But you know, it is a
Speaker 1: young woman who two guys from the future show up
Speaker 1: and say this is what your life is, and you
Speaker 1: have to make this work. And she doesn't really have much.
Speaker 1: The movie doesn't give her much space to say, no,
Speaker 1: I get to decide what I do with my life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, can I still moonlight as an actress?
Speaker 1: In addition to that, that's the most frustrating thing about
Speaker 1: this movie in particular. And then it carries over into
Speaker 1: T two, but it becomes a little like it's so
Speaker 1: much because like Sarah Connor is targeted because she's important,
Speaker 1: but she's only in poor because she is the mother
Speaker 1: of a man who is actually important to the resistance.
Speaker 1: Because these movies can't envision a world where a woman
Speaker 1: is important because she's the powerful resistance leader. They can
Speaker 1: only see a world where a man would be in
Speaker 1: that leadership role. And she's his mother, his mother, I mean,
Speaker 1: and it's cool. It's so I mean, there is this
Speaker 1: like and I know that we have to consider the
Speaker 1: time that this came out in where it was. I mean,
Speaker 1: for a long time, Sarah Connor was like about as
Speaker 1: good as you could get for a female protagonist in
Speaker 1: an action franchise. And for all the Jimmy Cammy issues
Speaker 1: will bring up later, like, he was one of the
Speaker 1: only directors that would prioritize that and for sure work.
Speaker 1: So for all of its flaws, it definitely was progressive
Speaker 1: for its time. But you do see, just kind of
Speaker 1: with some time and reflection that she is still relegated
Speaker 1: in both movies to an extent to her relationships to men.
Speaker 1: And and that's another thing that I feel like is
Speaker 1: kind of fully taken from uh Kill Bill and the Bride,
Speaker 1: is that you know, you can see this woman who
Speaker 1: is kicking as she's very capable, she's excellent at what
Speaker 1: she does, but it's the connection to motherhood that ends
Speaker 1: up driving the story. Women aren't allowed to have motivations
Speaker 1: that aren't connected still somehow to domesticity. And again that's like,
Speaker 1: obviously not to knock the concept of motherhood, but it
Speaker 1: is like the way we most frequently see women defined
Speaker 1: by in movies, and even in these like very famous
Speaker 1: action movies, it's still that somehow a woman can only
Speaker 1: be a participant in narratives like that if she's also
Speaker 1: framed as you know, being a mother oftentimes. And yes,
Speaker 1: of course, like to clarify, we love motherhood, we love mom's.
Speaker 1: It's just the societal expectation that women must be mothers
Speaker 1: and you've got no other choice, and that's what your
Speaker 1: role is as a woman in society. That's what we
Speaker 1: take issue with. Well. And also I think, just like
Speaker 1: my frustration is just like I think it's wonderful that
Speaker 1: there's movies about motherhood and like frank discussions of motherhood
Speaker 1: women aren't I mean there's one woman one for four
Speaker 1: in both of these movies. Is there a woman actually
Speaker 1: writing about it? So women are not allowed to have
Speaker 1: really generally a perspective on motherhood. It is an invented
Speaker 1: perspective forced upon them by a male writer and a director.
Speaker 1: And it's also just like that is the only narrative
Speaker 1: you can have, like there's not many alternatives, and so
Speaker 1: I don't know, And if it sounds like I'm being
Speaker 1: too harsh, it's because I don't have any um sentimental
Speaker 1: connection to these movies, but especially in the first one,
Speaker 1: the christ narrative was so heavy handed, and then at
Speaker 1: the end they're like, Jesus is about to be born,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't, I can't give a fun
Speaker 1: Jesus name is Greg and he's not to be born,
Speaker 1: you know. Also, to just touch on something that you
Speaker 1: just mentioned, Um, the writers of these two films both
Speaker 1: were written by James Cameron, and then on the first
Speaker 1: Terminator movie, Gail and Heard has a co writing credit,
Speaker 1: and then on the second movie, UM William Wisher has
Speaker 1: a co writing credit. However, for the first movie, that
Speaker 1: would appear to have been co written by a woman.
Speaker 1: According to Wikipedia, Gail and Heard suggested some edits to
Speaker 1: the script after she came on board as a producer
Speaker 1: of the film, and then took a screenwriting credit for
Speaker 1: the film, but James Cameron has stated that she did
Speaker 1: no actual writing at all. I read that as well,
Speaker 1: which is just like, I mean, I'm glad she got paid.
Speaker 1: Love when women get paid, but also like let them
Speaker 1: do the fucking job. Yeah, Gail and her, I mean
Speaker 1: it's she produced both of these movies. She's produced a
Speaker 1: number of famous movies. Um in a time where not
Speaker 1: a lot of women were producing movies, much less movies
Speaker 1: this huge, So that is great, it is. I mean,
Speaker 1: if if you look at the script for a Terminator one,
Speaker 1: it's very clear that it's a James Cameron script because
Speaker 1: it is disgusting. It's so you're just like, oh, this,
Speaker 1: there's no way this isn't written by a man who's
Speaker 1: never made a woman come into life. Like that's the
Speaker 1: only energy you get from it. So yeah, I saw
Speaker 1: that as well. You're like, oh, that totally tracks based
Speaker 1: on the very bizarre excerpt that I've read. I mean it,
Speaker 1: I am happy at very least and again it's like
Speaker 1: eighties early nineties, Like you're like, I'm glad that a
Speaker 1: woman was involved and like had influence over the store
Speaker 1: or at least some influence over the story and what happened.
Speaker 1: I mean. It's frustrating though, because even the Terminator movie
Speaker 1: that just came out five credited writers, all men, ye,
Speaker 1: which is just like a continuation of this fucking hideous thing.
Speaker 1: Then I feel like we're seeing as like as it
Speaker 1: becomes more of a priority in an audience to manned
Speaker 1: for there to be more inclusion in movies where the
Speaker 1: front facing stuff, the on camera stuff is far more inclusive,
Speaker 1: and then behind the camera it's exactly the same. Pisses
Speaker 1: me because in Terminator Dark Face, and this is not
Speaker 1: a spoiler because if you've seen any of the trailers
Speaker 1: you know this, but the three main characters of that
Speaker 1: film are three women, and you're not going to believe.
Speaker 1: Fans of the Terminator franchise, we're mad about it. Another
Speaker 1: kind of conflicting thing I have about this first movie
Speaker 1: is so a man is sent back as Sarah Connor's
Speaker 1: protector and savior essentially, um So, the plot of this
Speaker 1: movie forces a woman to be in a situation where
Speaker 1: she's constantly needing to be protected by a man because
Speaker 1: he does have the upper hand in terms of having
Speaker 1: the combat skills and all the information necessary to keep
Speaker 1: her alive. She has nothing, but all at the same time,
Speaker 1: though she's like, she isn't framed as being helpless. She
Speaker 1: like doesn't she does stuff, you know, like, especially towards
Speaker 1: the end, it does take a while take the whole move.
Speaker 1: But also if I was in that situation, like I
Speaker 1: have no combat training, if someone was like sent back
Speaker 1: to kill me, I'd be like, yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to survive either. Well, again, I think it's a
Speaker 1: story flaw because that's like it didn't have to go
Speaker 1: that way. She could have had something she I agree
Speaker 1: that she if she even just had like knowledge of
Speaker 1: contemporary l a and she can be like we let's
Speaker 1: go this way or like hide here. Yeah, like that
Speaker 1: would have been that would have been nice the end.
Speaker 1: I like, I like all of her scenes at the end,
Speaker 1: like when she starts to when she's allowed to drive, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so in the third act, essentially when she starts to
Speaker 1: become a bit more active, where she yeah, like you said,
Speaker 1: she is driving the various cars that they've stolen. Um,
Speaker 1: she does veer the terminator off the road when he's
Speaker 1: chasing them on the motorcycle. She saves Kyle, and I
Speaker 1: mean he has to save her a number of time,
Speaker 1: but like their truck rolls, so she like pulls him
Speaker 1: out of the truck and saves him U And then
Speaker 1: after the terminator gets back up out of the fire,
Speaker 1: she's the one who like the glass. She unlocks the
Speaker 1: door to get into the factory. And then yes, she's
Speaker 1: the one who like lands the final blow of like
Speaker 1: crushing and destroying the terminator, which is cool, you know,
Speaker 1: because you were like kind of set up by that
Speaker 1: scene to make it seem like Kyle is going to
Speaker 1: be the one that does it, but he died but
Speaker 1: then he was too weak, and then she gets it
Speaker 1: was really exciting when she when she gets like the
Speaker 1: death book is so I mean, female protagonists very infrequently
Speaker 1: get that in their own movie. So I thought that
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, I mean the last act you start
Speaker 1: to see like the and it was I mean, it
Speaker 1: was kind of like heartwarming, even though you're like the
Speaker 1: love story is so bizarre, but it was kind of sweet.
Speaker 1: I thought to see Kyle be kind of like star
Speaker 1: struck by her and like, I don't know, just kind
Speaker 1: of that was something I'm like, Oh, if I had
Speaker 1: seen that movie when I was younger, it would have
Speaker 1: like hit for me. Where she feels like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: just a waitress. There's there's not much to me, and
Speaker 1: then he's like, no, do you know how cool you're
Speaker 1: going to be or like the coolest person in the world.
Speaker 1: She's like what, and you know, like that I thought
Speaker 1: that was kind of sweet, but It's like, did she
Speaker 1: really need that validation from from a future man. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think she's already cool even before she
Speaker 1: for sure is. She drives a moped, she has a
Speaker 1: pet iguana, feminist song hugs iguana. You know she she's
Speaker 1: an independent woman. We know what her job is. She
Speaker 1: has a roommate, ginger who she seems to get along
Speaker 1: with really well. I feel like that we don't know
Speaker 1: that much. We don't know much. The end goal air
Speaker 1: endgame isn't being a diner waitress. Probably not, It isn't.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I did like about what
Speaker 1: we know about her character early on is her date
Speaker 1: bails on her on a Friday night, but she decides
Speaker 1: to like go out to dinner in a movie by herself,
Speaker 1: because like in a lot of movies you would see
Speaker 1: that happen, and then you would see the woman like
Speaker 1: cry over a tub of ice cream at home and
Speaker 1: like not that I mean I do that sometimes, Like
Speaker 1: it definitely happens, but in terms of setting a precedent, right,
Speaker 1: that's become yeah, like the whole like a boy didn't
Speaker 1: want to go with me, I'm just gonna eat ice cream.
Speaker 1: That's become like such a trope. So yeah, I really
Speaker 1: liked that. You know, she's just like fun it, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go to a dinner in a movie. But like,
Speaker 1: what does she want to do with her life? We
Speaker 1: don't know, Carmen doesn't care. We gotta take a quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll be back. Hilarious. You get what I did there, Jamie,
Speaker 1: no unpack it during the break. Okay, Well we'll be
Speaker 1: back another thing. Well even Okay, So even though we
Speaker 1: don't know really anything about her aspirations or you know,
Speaker 1: just that much in general, and she doesn't get a
Speaker 1: chance to be super active until around the third act
Speaker 1: of the movie, I would argue that she's still fairly
Speaker 1: She's reaching come to the defense of this movie, probably
Speaker 1: too much, But I would argue that she's fairly proactive
Speaker 1: throughout the movie in the sense that, like when she
Speaker 1: thinks she's being stalked by Kyle Reese, like she goes
Speaker 1: into a yeah, she says, I mean she goes into
Speaker 1: a public place because she thinks that'll be safe. She
Speaker 1: calls the police, like I think in a lot of
Speaker 1: movies where a woman is being chased by a killer,
Speaker 1: And maybe this is more common in like horror slasher movies.
Speaker 1: But also I would argue that Terminator is not unlike
Speaker 1: a slasher horror film. But in a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: the women in those movies make stupid choices. And that
Speaker 1: might sound victim blame me, but they're stupid choices because
Speaker 1: the male writers who write those characters I think that
Speaker 1: women are stupid, and so they write them that way.
Speaker 1: And I think at that point, um, I totally see
Speaker 1: what you're saying. And and that stands just strictly based
Speaker 1: on how her roommate is treated, her roommate and her
Speaker 1: roommate's boyfriend when they're murdered in cold blood right after
Speaker 1: having sex. That is like a horror movie tried, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. But Sarah is like using the best judgment
Speaker 1: she can, whereas in like other movies of this era, again,
Speaker 1: especially like you know, slasher movies, the female characters were
Speaker 1: using terrible judgment. And even like I watched a movie
Speaker 1: around Halloween time that came out in a terrible horror
Speaker 1: movie on Netflix about a killer clown called Terrifier. But
Speaker 1: I was like, this looks horrible. Let me watch this,
Speaker 1: and in that movie again, this movie can put two
Speaker 1: years ago, but all the female characters just like kept
Speaker 1: making one stupid choice after another, like they would go
Speaker 1: back into the creepy warehouse for no reason at all
Speaker 1: after a bunch of very scary stuff had just happened
Speaker 1: to them. I think we're used to seeing like female
Speaker 1: characters using poor judgment or just like not being very proactive.
Speaker 1: But in this movie, like Sarah is making smart choices
Speaker 1: and she's being proactive. And even though she does like
Speaker 1: make a mistake because she thinks she's talking to her
Speaker 1: mom and tells her the number of the motel that
Speaker 1: she's staying at, but it was really the terminator who
Speaker 1: had been impersonating her mother she had knowing that she
Speaker 1: didn't know. Yeah, so even like a mistake that she makes,
Speaker 1: she didn't do it because she's like written as a
Speaker 1: an airheaded, underwritten female character. I still think she's an
Speaker 1: underwritten female character in the first movie, but I see
Speaker 1: she has been I viewed with street smarts, and that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. And that's also I mean, like you said before,
Speaker 1: this is a movie coming out in a decade where
Speaker 1: action movies had almost no interest in featuring women. Like
Speaker 1: the action movies of this time, where things like die Hard,
Speaker 1: First Blood, RoboCop, Indiana Jones, Lethal Weapon, Top Gun, like
Speaker 1: all these like hyper hyper masculine, dripping with toxic masculinity films.
Speaker 1: Uh that didn't have any vested interest in female characters,
Speaker 1: which might be a good point. I mean, and it's
Speaker 1: weird because you get a taste of that with the Terminator.
Speaker 1: But the Terminator is kind of like this, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a smartly written character where the
Speaker 1: Terminator I mean, and we know now that like robots
Speaker 1: are also prejudiced because they're made by people, but I
Speaker 1: feel like the Terminator is created to be someone who
Speaker 1: doesn't discriminate, just has a mission and accomplishes it. So
Speaker 1: there's not even even though he is like technically the
Speaker 1: lead macho blah blah blah of the movie, you don't
Speaker 1: see that like inherent sexism in him because he's a machine.
Speaker 1: A machine he's so you're like, oh, that's kind of cool,
Speaker 1: like you you don't get the casual sexism that you
Speaker 1: would in a die Hard kind of movie because he's
Speaker 1: a computer. Cool and I do. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: maybe a good point to bring up James Cameron's pretty
Speaker 1: consistent commitment to not objectifying Linda Hamilton's in both of
Speaker 1: these movies, which is again it sounds like a very
Speaker 1: like least you can do creative choice, but not a
Speaker 1: lot of movies we're making that creative choice, especially in
Speaker 1: like blockbuster movies, where that's so inherent even now truly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean eighties action movies. If there was a woman
Speaker 1: in the story, she was very much overly sexualized, like
Speaker 1: retuitious nudity, all that kind of stuff, and if she
Speaker 1: was participating in the action, it wasn't a very skimpy
Speaker 1: outfit the whole bit. So that is cool, and you,
Speaker 1: I think, especially in the first one, you see more
Speaker 1: made of Arnold Schwarzenegger's body than of Linda Hamilton's. You
Speaker 1: do have that brief sex scene that we are going
Speaker 1: to do a reading from. I mean, she should we
Speaker 1: get to that now, because I would like to talk
Speaker 1: about this romantic subplot. Okay, well, let's I guess start
Speaker 1: by like reading Okay, so do you who do you
Speaker 1: want to be? Say A Reese? And then I'll read
Speaker 1: action lines. Okay, I'll be Reese? Okay, ready, yes, action
Speaker 1: and so you feel nothing. It's better that way Kyle
Speaker 1: Reese takes a long, slow breath before he answers, and
Speaker 1: when he does, his voice as a new quality and
Speaker 1: unfamiliar tenderness. John Connor gave me a picture of you once.
Speaker 1: I never knew why. It was very old, torn faded.
Speaker 1: You were young like you are now. You weren't smiling,
Speaker 1: just a little sad. I always wondered what you were
Speaker 1: thinking at that second. Oh, he's so cringe e. He
Speaker 1: closes his eyes, reaches towards her. His fingertips traced the
Speaker 1: contour of her nose, chin, cheeks. I memorized every line,
Speaker 1: every curse, opens his eyes, looking right at hers. Sarah,
Speaker 1: I came across time for you. I love you, I
Speaker 1: always have. Sarah's quietly overwhelmed. Reese looks away. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said Kyle. And now the money shot.
Speaker 1: She leans forward and kisses him. His face is frozen
Speaker 1: a mask. She continues tenderly. He begins to respond. The
Speaker 1: damn breaks and he tolds. He holds her in a tight,
Speaker 1: trembling embrace, clinging to her like life itself. Carmon is
Speaker 1: literally a virgin. Kyle picks her up and carries her
Speaker 1: to the bed. She kisses his neck and chest, tracing
Speaker 1: his scars with her lips. He unbuttons her blouse very slowly.
Speaker 1: Sarah guides his powerful hands over her. A sequence of
Speaker 1: cuts details impression Sarah a very close angle as she
Speaker 1: grimaces in divine agony agony Reese his face wrapped, his
Speaker 1: hand clutching the pillow as if to kill it. It
Speaker 1: is explosive, torrential, a confluence of fate and will disgusting.
Speaker 1: James Cameron writing like competitive, erotic, fantic, Like I was like, sir,
Speaker 1: this is a wendy. It's like, please take this out.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think it really did produce
Speaker 1: one of the most sexless love scenes I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Hate this sex scene in the movie. Although okay, here's
Speaker 1: what I will say about this. It's written a little
Speaker 1: differently in the script. What ends up on screen is
Speaker 1: Sarah being the one who initiates romantic contact with Reese,
Speaker 1: like she's the one who comes onto him because she's like, Hey,
Speaker 1: what are the women like in your time? And he's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't talk to women. I've only
Speaker 1: ever loved you. And then he's like, oh no, I
Speaker 1: should have said that. And then he goes over and
Speaker 1: starts fiddling with his bombs because he doesn't know how
Speaker 1: to be around a woman, know how boys are. And
Speaker 1: then she kisses him and then they have sex, so
Speaker 1: and then that's she gets gregnant. But I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's the one who's like initiating this sexual encounter, which
Speaker 1: I always like to see. It is nice. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then and again it's like another thing that this movie
Speaker 1: does that might not seem I mean even that now,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's still not a lot of women
Speaker 1: in movies who initiate sex scenes except for Rose and Titanic.
Speaker 1: James Cameron needs a woman to initiate unfortunately, one of
Speaker 1: the other nastiest sex scenes ever written. Um. What I
Speaker 1: don't like though about this romantic subplot is one it exists.
Speaker 1: It exists at all. It was a studio note I
Speaker 1: read that strengthening the love interest between Sarah and Reese
Speaker 1: was a studio James Cameron agreed to it because apparently
Speaker 1: it hadn't been written quite that way, like their relationship
Speaker 1: wasn't as strong and romantic in the original script, so
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, sounds great. What I really hate about
Speaker 1: it is that he shows up as this protector man
Speaker 1: she rescues her, and then also like treats her really badly.
Speaker 1: The way he treats her physically at the getting made
Speaker 1: me very incurtently. He's repeatedly like scrabbing, grabbing, and I
Speaker 1: know it's like it's an emergency, but he keeps grabbing
Speaker 1: her arm and you're like, dude, he's saying. He's like,
Speaker 1: do exactly as I stay, don't move unless I say,
Speaker 1: don't make good sound unless I said do you understand? Yeah,
Speaker 1: just a lot of like extremely aggressive, pretty violent actions
Speaker 1: towards her. And then I have sex a while later.
Speaker 1: So not into it. It's not great. I get how
Speaker 1: it fits into the story, and it feeds into the
Speaker 1: whole franchise, and you're like, oh now, it's kind of
Speaker 1: this story element that's inseparable from the entire franchise. And
Speaker 1: you know, hooking up with the future man sounds hot,
Speaker 1: sounds great. I just like, I I don't know, I
Speaker 1: have more. I I don't like that it is such
Speaker 1: an obvious studio note relationship um that carries into the
Speaker 1: Terminator too in a way that is like doesn't feel necessary,
Speaker 1: where she's like I still love him, and which will
Speaker 1: get into because the whatever my thing is Listen, Sarah
Speaker 1: Connor didn't get to decide what to do with her life.
Speaker 1: She didn't even get a name her own fucking kid.
Speaker 1: It's like, so I just she wanted to name him Greg.
Speaker 1: She wanted to name him Greg, which makes logical sense.
Speaker 1: The relationship is annoying and the sex scene is weird.
Speaker 1: Every eight I'm just like, who is we were saying
Speaker 1: this when we were watching, Like you can just feel
Speaker 1: that there is an entire crew in the room. It
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like you're just like, oh, the actors seems
Speaker 1: so like I'm like, they must be so uncomfortable otherwise
Speaker 1: why would this scene appear this way? I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, what really bothers me about it is not
Speaker 1: I mean the sex that they have fine, Like I
Speaker 1: think their trauma bonded together that makes people horny, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, they have sure sex. But when
Speaker 1: it bleeds over into this movie and she's like, I
Speaker 1: still love him. I think about him all the time
Speaker 1: and da da da, and like she has dreams about him,
Speaker 1: Like I don't they knew each other for a day,
Speaker 1: Like do you really are you in love with him. Well,
Speaker 1: if we're formally crossing over in Determinator to territory, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously Sarah has a like infinity more agency in Terminator
Speaker 1: two than she does in the majority of the first one.
Speaker 1: And and I feel like T two is like the
Speaker 1: feminist icon version that people really remember in cosplay as
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. I mean you can literally see how,
Speaker 1: like Laurie Strode is dressed like Sarah Connor from T
Speaker 1: two in the Halloween movie that came out last year,
Speaker 1: Like it is a very enduring version of this character
Speaker 1: something I wanted to touch on, and this does sort
Speaker 1: of just demarket I guess, like the difference of how
Speaker 1: he approaches her character in the first and second movies, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, he first describes her. So in the
Speaker 1: first movie, this is how he describes Sarah Connor. Sarah
Speaker 1: Connor is nineteen, small and delicate, featured, pretty in a flawed,
Speaker 1: accessible way. She doesn't stop the party when she walks in,
Speaker 1: but you'd like to get to know her, her vulnerable quality,
Speaker 1: masks of strength she doesn't even know exists. So that's
Speaker 1: pretty fucking patronizing. Uh. And then in T two, this
Speaker 1: is how he describes her, he is truly a horrible writer. Uh.
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor is not the same woman we remember from
Speaker 1: the last time. Her eyes peer out through a wild
Speaker 1: tangle of hair, like those of a cornered animal, defiant
Speaker 1: and intense, but skittering around looking for escape at the
Speaker 1: same time fight or flight down. One cheek is a
Speaker 1: long scar from just below the eye to the upper lip.
Speaker 1: Her voice is low and chilling monotone. So he kind of,
Speaker 1: I mean, and you can see this, you can see
Speaker 1: like shades of the Sarah from Terminator one, but it's
Speaker 1: for the most part, like a really different like you
Speaker 1: can see where she's coming from, but she's very different
Speaker 1: and t two and like for sure way more fun, definitely,
Speaker 1: but there are still like some little things that just
Speaker 1: like bug me as the James Cameron has this thing
Speaker 1: where he for his time Peak Cameron, although you know
Speaker 1: Avatar a billion, maybe there's a second coming, but for now,
Speaker 1: if we're considering eighties and nineties, Peak Cameron right had
Speaker 1: more progressive female characters than most, but he does kind
Speaker 1: of he's still a man, and he's still kind of
Speaker 1: uses the same I feel like quote unquote cheat codes
Speaker 1: to give his female characters dimension in multiple movies and
Speaker 1: Terminator to an aliens. I feel like he makes a
Speaker 1: very similar choice with Ripley as he does with Sarah Connor,
Speaker 1: where it's she you know, these are both very capable
Speaker 1: and motivated action heroes, but they're motivated by mommy, and
Speaker 1: he has difficulty it would appear, I mean, he doesn't Entitanic,
Speaker 1: but he has difficulties seeing past motherhood in this period
Speaker 1: of movies as a conceivable motivated He can't like think
Speaker 1: of another conceivable motivation for a woman, which is annoying.
Speaker 1: And in this one too, and in T two, there's
Speaker 1: a few different moments for Sarah Connor. You know, there's
Speaker 1: like that speech where she says, um, oh, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to bring up, where she's basically this thing,
Speaker 1: this machine, was the only thing that measured up. And
Speaker 1: she's talking about how she you know, she's been subtly
Speaker 1: scouting for a father for Greg Greg, and you know
Speaker 1: that just sort of doubles down on the like nuclear
Speaker 1: family trope and like everyone needs a mother and a father,
Speaker 1: which we know is not true. And it's not like
Speaker 1: it's a bad thing for her to want more support
Speaker 1: in parenting. But it's just such a straight forward kind
Speaker 1: of underthought. I feel like conclusion of like, well, of
Speaker 1: course she has to find a father for her son. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also this is maybe a reach, but also like
Speaker 1: that bothered me because yeah, she says something like, of
Speaker 1: all the would be fathers, like this machine is the
Speaker 1: only thing that could measure up because it would never
Speaker 1: leave him or get drunk and hit him or shout
Speaker 1: at him or say he was too busy for him.
Speaker 1: But like, the other part of this terminator character is
Speaker 1: that like he doesn't understand human emotion and like it's
Speaker 1: just like completely avoid of likeial vulnerability and as someone
Speaker 1: who grew up with a father who is incapable of
Speaker 1: emotional intimacy or vulnerability. And yes, because I've estranged myself
Speaker 1: from my dad for that reason. So I feel like
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor being like, yeah, daddy, he just needs to
Speaker 1: be around, and it's like, well, that's not good enough.
Speaker 1: So I feel like it's like letting father's off the
Speaker 1: hook as long as they're just around, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: there's more to it than that. Yeah, it's weird. It's
Speaker 1: kind of complicated too, because it's not like Sarah Connor is.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so so something that I think is
Speaker 1: very interesting. I guess the sort of crosses over T
Speaker 1: two becomes more of this goofy father son relationship than
Speaker 1: I was expecting it too. That's one thing I feel
Speaker 1: like that takes up way more real real estate in
Speaker 1: the movie than it needs to. And it again implies
Speaker 1: that every kid needs a mother and a father, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, good Terminator becomes daddy and you're like, I
Speaker 1: get like, sure, I guess, you know, and and I
Speaker 1: do like that John Grigg calling what you will um
Speaker 1: he has an arc of becoming more emotionally intelligent, more sensitive,
Speaker 1: more empathetic. I feel like through the movie where you
Speaker 1: start out and he you know, he's in foster care.
Speaker 1: His mother is in a psychiatric word and he, you know,
Speaker 1: says that you know, he doesn't believe what she's saying,
Speaker 1: and she you know, he doesn't trust what she said
Speaker 1: as and he's like better off without her. All this stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, which we don't get a lot of good
Speaker 1: examples of portrayals of younger boys, especially like preteen boys.
Speaker 1: It's like a you know, tentative time for anyone. So
Speaker 1: to cease. You know, his arc be learning to trust
Speaker 1: and believe women is really cool, and so that's great.
Speaker 1: The father's son's stuff, it's just like, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of feels like a different movie
Speaker 1: in some ways, but well, I do also like that
Speaker 1: part of his arc is him teaching his new daddy.
Speaker 1: He's like teaching him like emotional intelligence and like empathy
Speaker 1: a little. He's like, you can't kill people. Like also
Speaker 1: like we have feelings, people hurt, people cry, we're afraid,
Speaker 1: like he tells. He basically tells, as you pointed out, Jamie,
Speaker 1: that he tells the terminator to smile more he does.
Speaker 1: That's I think that that's a bonus scene. But it's yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that might be from the director's cup. But
Speaker 1: he doesn't scene where he's like you should smile and
Speaker 1: then he's like how do I smile? I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is uh, It's like, this is not trying to
Speaker 1: do this. What's kind of funny that it did? It
Speaker 1: is cool? Yeah, where and like the younger boy is
Speaker 1: encouraging the older man to be emotionally intelligent and consider
Speaker 1: other people and their motivations and their lives and you know,
Speaker 1: literally their lives, giving them alive. That's lovely, But going
Speaker 1: back to his motivation and believing his mom, that was
Speaker 1: like what I thought was one of the more compelling
Speaker 1: elements of Sarah Connor's character in the second one is
Speaker 1: we start from this point of like it feels like
Speaker 1: weirdly like pretty modern of she is stuck in this
Speaker 1: psychiatric ward because people don't believe what she's saying. She
Speaker 1: doesn't have enough evidence of what she's saying for people
Speaker 1: to believe it, and similar to how they treated Kyle
Speaker 1: in the first movie, law enforcement thinks it's easier to
Speaker 1: just kind of lock her up and um tell her
Speaker 1: that she is you know, her mind isn't right, and
Speaker 1: she sticks to her truth until what I think is
Speaker 1: kind of like a devastating sad scene where we see
Speaker 1: there's that like really great Linda Hamilton's moment where we
Speaker 1: see a clip of her from like when she first
Speaker 1: got there, um screaming like it happened, it happened, which
Speaker 1: you were just like a fuck, and then we flashed
Speaker 1: forward to her, however long later, saying to a medical professional,
Speaker 1: I mean the same one from the first movie. Dr
Speaker 1: Silberman saying even though we know she doesn't think this
Speaker 1: taking it back and being like I was wrong. The
Speaker 1: thing I know is the truth is actually not the truth.
Speaker 1: Now can I see my son? That I thought was
Speaker 1: like one of the most emotionally compelling parts of both
Speaker 1: movies is like she has to take back her truth
Speaker 1: in order to survive. And like I just I thought
Speaker 1: that was like a felt very contemporary, and you sort
Speaker 1: of see her dealing with even though it's not explicitly stated,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, like a post traumatic stress narrative
Speaker 1: with the dreams that she's having and when she's first
Speaker 1: confronted with Arnold Schwarzenegger's face again, and just like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's like you see her sometimes act a
Speaker 1: little bit harshly or a little bit abruptly, but it
Speaker 1: is all grounded in this like, well, she's been through
Speaker 1: so fucking much, she's been so disbelieved even by her
Speaker 1: own son, and just like kind of watching her go
Speaker 1: on that journey of first of all her son learning
Speaker 1: and accepting what was the truth the whole time, and
Speaker 1: just her like navigating the like PTSD of what happens
Speaker 1: to her in the first movie and in the events
Speaker 1: in between it thought was like really compelling, Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 1: and then the component of like she doesn't have the
Speaker 1: evidence to support her truth because a fucking corporation stolen
Speaker 1: it is now being used as research to develop the
Speaker 1: technology that we'll later kill everybody. Um yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: that that scene was super effective where she's like, it
Speaker 1: makes it seem like she's walking back what she actually believes.
Speaker 1: But she's only doing that because she's so smart. If
Speaker 1: she says, oh no, I'm feeling better now, I don't
Speaker 1: believe this anymore. I made all that stuff up. There's
Speaker 1: no evidence because there is no evidence, like there would
Speaker 1: be evidence if you know, I had crushed that terminator.
Speaker 1: So she's walking it back, but only because she's trying
Speaker 1: to trick the psychologist into getting putting the minimum security.
Speaker 1: I thought it was super effective and I totally agree. Cool. Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought was good. One thing that this is. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess this might be another example of it being
Speaker 1: well done, even though it's like frustrating, the reality of
Speaker 1: the situation is, you know, even though she does, her
Speaker 1: son ends up believing her and Dyson ends up believing her,
Speaker 1: it's only because she has the evidence all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: It's never that or like, you know what, I should
Speaker 1: have taken seriously what you were saying. There was no
Speaker 1: reason not to. I believe you. It's only when she
Speaker 1: has the flesh and robot evidence of a terminator and
Speaker 1: she can literally peel someone's arm down, like you know.
Speaker 1: It's like Greg only truly believes her once he's met
Speaker 1: a terminator himself, and Dyson only truly believes her when
Speaker 1: Arnold Schorgenseninger removes his hand. And so it's which I
Speaker 1: think is unfortunately kind of a realistic thing in terms
Speaker 1: of like the circumstances under which people believe women, is
Speaker 1: no one really believes her until she does have the
Speaker 1: heart evidence, just like in the context of believing women,
Speaker 1: which does seem to be like something that was ahead
Speaker 1: of its time in like demanding that. It does feel
Speaker 1: unfortunately kind of on point that the two people who
Speaker 1: end up believing her, and I guess you would include
Speaker 1: um Dyson's family and this as well, even though they
Speaker 1: don't have very large roles. They don't believe it until
Speaker 1: until they see it. Yeah, for sure. So another very
Speaker 1: cathartic moment for me in the movie is when Dr
Speaker 1: Silberman sees the bad terminator coming through the gate in
Speaker 1: a way that only a like liquid metal robot would
Speaker 1: be able to do, and so he sees it, and
Speaker 1: you know, he's watching this whole scene unfold where you
Speaker 1: know this other terminator is there, and then his mouth
Speaker 1: drops a gape because he's like, oh fuck, she was
Speaker 1: telling you the whole time, like yes, fucking believe women.
Speaker 1: And there's like a similar theme explored in Aliens from
Speaker 1: at the beginning of that movie is a very similar
Speaker 1: like I swear to God this is happening, and then
Speaker 1: no one blazes her until so another Mr Jim he
Speaker 1: is effectively explored here, I agree to just go back
Speaker 1: to that hospital. Seen the first time I saw that
Speaker 1: scene where she is escaping from the hospital, I just
Speaker 1: remember feeling so empowered and like energized by it, Like
Speaker 1: I was like, you know this team girls, like fuck, yes,
Speaker 1: go Sarah because it's so cool. Around the same time
Speaker 1: in the movie, John is telling Arnold he was like,
Speaker 1: we gotta go get my mom, Like we gotta go
Speaker 1: rescue her. I order you to do this, like even
Speaker 1: though it's dangerous and maybe the other terminator will be there,
Speaker 1: like we have to go save her, So like it's
Speaker 1: set up in a way that's like maybe they're going
Speaker 1: to have to like literally go in and break her out,
Speaker 1: but she's already basically broken herself out, which I love
Speaker 1: the thought that she doesn't have to be rescued, um,
Speaker 1: but could you get the feeling that if they hadn't
Speaker 1: showed up she would get out anyways? Yes, she was
Speaker 1: like well on her way out and just kind of
Speaker 1: I just want to do like a little beat by
Speaker 1: beat breakdown of this because I just love it so
Speaker 1: much where she is putting on this facade of tending
Speaker 1: to be just so drugged up that she's basically not cognizant,
Speaker 1: And she very subtly steals a little paper clip and
Speaker 1: hides it in her mouth, and then after she's been
Speaker 1: locked up in her restraints in her room, she like
Speaker 1: spits out the paper clip, uses it to unlock the
Speaker 1: restraints and then the door. Then she has like broken
Speaker 1: off the handle of a broom and she uses that
Speaker 1: to beat the ship out of the guy who has
Speaker 1: been horrible to her, who has beaten her and ligged
Speaker 1: her face electrocuted her. So she breaks his face and
Speaker 1: then drags him and locks him in a closet, takes
Speaker 1: his nightstick, takes the psychologist hostage, you know, with the
Speaker 1: whole like drain of like liquid drain cleaner thingking brutal. Yes,
Speaker 1: I loved it. And then just like that whole sequence
Speaker 1: where she's like calling the shots and doing whatever it
Speaker 1: takes to get out of there. Yeah, I was just like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: like so cool. Yeah, think, I mean that whole scene
Speaker 1: is so exciting and cool and also like completely like
Speaker 1: there's no Mary Sue element to it because you know
Speaker 1: that she's been planning this for so long and she's
Speaker 1: been like bulking up and very solitary confinement, like she
Speaker 1: has developed every single skill she needs to pull off
Speaker 1: this fucking incredible sequence. It's so cool, right because it's
Speaker 1: like it's a bunch of different things. It's us seeing
Speaker 1: a woman be like tough and smart and tactical and
Speaker 1: just like straight up kick ass in a way that
Speaker 1: is not sexualized because in a lot of like action
Speaker 1: franchises that do feature women who are like kicking ass,
Speaker 1: like Vagina, it's the it's the pussy slam that we see,
Speaker 1: but it's it's we don't see anything like that with
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor. It's us seeing her escape from this wrongful
Speaker 1: imprisonment because she hasn't been believed and she's basically saying
Speaker 1: like just a giant fuck you to all the people
Speaker 1: who have not leaved her for all these years, which
Speaker 1: is crazy cathartic. It's so cool, it's so cool, and
Speaker 1: it's just it was such an empowering, awesome scene too,
Speaker 1: and I love it. Just Yeah, every time I see
Speaker 1: this movie, I'm always just like, yes, and we don't
Speaker 1: see her fall into the women are only allowed to
Speaker 1: use household items as weapons here, Sarah Sarah, I mean
Speaker 1: she she uses what's around in the hospital, but I
Speaker 1: feel like that makes perfect sense, and she but then
Speaker 1: she takes the nights the rest of the movie, right, right,
Speaker 1: and so like that. I mean, it truly is just
Speaker 1: like she's being treated like an action hero is treated,
Speaker 1: which is great. So just I guess to kind of
Speaker 1: close on the mommy stuff because I feel like we've
Speaker 1: been alluding to it quite a bit and it takes
Speaker 1: a larger role in the second movie. Again, it's kind
Speaker 1: of necessary to the narrative because the kid exists now. Um,
Speaker 1: but there is that moment that happens right after she
Speaker 1: it seems like she's going to kill Dyson, and then
Speaker 1: she's like, j K, I mommy, I can't kill you.
Speaker 1: Slash a lot of stuff. She's human. They're like sitting
Speaker 1: in Dyson's kitchen with his whole with it, with his wife,
Speaker 1: uh and him and good terminator and John. She's kind
Speaker 1: of railing on Dyson for trying to build another terminator.
Speaker 1: She says, how are you supposed to know? Fucking men
Speaker 1: like you built the hydrogen bomb, men like you thought
Speaker 1: it up. You think you're so creative. You don't know
Speaker 1: what it's like to really create something, to create a life,
Speaker 1: to feel it growing inside you. All you know how
Speaker 1: to do is death in destruction. And then Greg cuts
Speaker 1: her off and it's like mom, yucky um, which I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I think that there's a lot
Speaker 1: of different reads of that line. There's a read of
Speaker 1: it I think that is like very empowering and really
Speaker 1: hitting the nail of the like what James Cameron is
Speaker 1: trying to do with her character right on the head
Speaker 1: of like women with a narrow definition of what a
Speaker 1: woman is, but like women can be badass and like
Speaker 1: they give life. That's so cool, Like there's there's a
Speaker 1: read of it that's very empowering, and I think that
Speaker 1: there's a read of it that's like a little reductive
Speaker 1: with with time and you know, just progress. I don't
Speaker 1: think it was intended to be reductive at all, but
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, that's the only way she can
Speaker 1: define a woman's power is through mommy stuff, and so
Speaker 1: that you know, there are moments and and for its time. Again,
Speaker 1: it's like that you do not get a better female
Speaker 1: action hero than Sarah Connor. But there are times where
Speaker 1: I feel like it leans a little too heavy on
Speaker 1: the crutch of like and her motivation is still woman's stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, right, Definitely, I definitely agree with that. But
Speaker 1: on the other hand, I can also see women who
Speaker 1: are mothers also feeling very empowered by Sarah Connor just
Speaker 1: by the mere fact of, like, she's a mom and
Speaker 1: she's also a complete badass. Because mother characters in movies
Speaker 1: are often depicted as like being just like naggy shrewy
Speaker 1: types of characters or just like, you know, just a
Speaker 1: typical kind of mom so to see, which is literally
Speaker 1: how Dyson's wife is portrayed. True. So to see, like
Speaker 1: a mother character who is also extremely tough. I think
Speaker 1: is like representation that we don't get to see that often. Again,
Speaker 1: I think it goes back to that thing we were
Speaker 1: talking about before, where it's like, we have nothing against
Speaker 1: mothers and motherhood, but for that to be the only
Speaker 1: option of a motivation is where I find it to
Speaker 1: be possibly reductive. Is like there's no even in kill Bill,
Speaker 1: a movie that is allegedly about revenge, it's not really
Speaker 1: just about revenge. It's also about motherhood. So it just
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there are more options now
Speaker 1: and that this movie was important and pushing stuff forward,
Speaker 1: but there yeah, I I do still feel like that
Speaker 1: read of it, like there's a like I was rolling
Speaker 1: my eyes just a little bit for sure. That all
Speaker 1: being said in terms of like Sarah's badassery and like
Speaker 1: all the cool things we get to see her do,
Speaker 1: and to me, the very drastic, stark change between her
Speaker 1: character in the first movie and the second movie is
Speaker 1: not only like cool to see this more empowered and
Speaker 1: badassed version of this character, but it also like tracks
Speaker 1: very well for what the story requires of it. So
Speaker 1: like I so it makes sense for the story, which
Speaker 1: as a screenwriter, um, I don't like to mention it,
Speaker 1: but like that I very much appreciated. Um. However, there
Speaker 1: was something that I couldn't help. But notice if we're
Speaker 1: kind of comparing some of the opening sequences of Terminator
Speaker 1: One and Terminator Too, where in Terminator one, the terminators
Speaker 1: in hot pursuit and Sarah needs Kyle Reyes to save
Speaker 1: her and get her away from the terminator and all
Speaker 1: this stuff. But in T two, John, a k greg
Speaker 1: who is a child, but a male child, is able
Speaker 1: to get away on his own for a little while
Speaker 1: his motorbike. So I'm like, okay, well she also had
Speaker 1: a mope. She did. But at the same time, John
Speaker 1: has been raised by his mother. His mom but in
Speaker 1: the context of like she was always telling him, like,
Speaker 1: you're going to be a military leader, like you need
Speaker 1: to learn combat and weapons and engines and like all
Speaker 1: this stuff. So he was more equipped than Sarah was
Speaker 1: to like, like he knew about terminators, like and he
Speaker 1: probably was like, Oh, this thing that's coming to kill me,
Speaker 1: that's probably a terminator. I have to get away. But
Speaker 1: it's still just the optics of like this child is
Speaker 1: able to like escape this terminator, but a grown woman
Speaker 1: needs all his help totally. I don't know. They both
Speaker 1: have mopeds. It's like, why is one more capable than
Speaker 1: the other. Should we talk about Dyson and his wife? Yes,
Speaker 1: as we already sort of touched on a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of his arc in the second movie,
Speaker 1: except for the very end. I don't think you needed
Speaker 1: to die. But I like there was more character written
Speaker 1: for him than I assumed there would be, honestly because
Speaker 1: he sort of set up as someone who Sarah Connor
Speaker 1: would kill or that good Terminator would kill. But because
Speaker 1: of the progress that those characters are already making, they
Speaker 1: don't kill him, and then we get to see progress
Speaker 1: on his part of being like, I see what I've done,
Speaker 1: I see the error of and like the tunnel mindedness
Speaker 1: of what I was doing. How can I help? How
Speaker 1: can I reverse it? And so you know his arc
Speaker 1: I liked, Yeah, that's always lovely, Um I do, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning. He has his wife, her name, she
Speaker 1: is named as Teresa. That's all we know. That's all
Speaker 1: we know. She's a pretty much a tertiary character, so
Speaker 1: I guess I mean she she didn't have to be,
Speaker 1: but that's how the movie does frame her. I think
Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that he's one of the very
Speaker 1: few people of color in the movie franchise the franchise
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, but the fact that he is
Speaker 1: like a tech genius, like a person of color and
Speaker 1: stem was representation we were not getting very much of,
Speaker 1: especially in this era. UM, so that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: But yes, I don't like, still the only die the
Speaker 1: character we know the best in this movie that is
Speaker 1: killed off. Besides like the villain. Yeah, yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like that character could have been brought back in sequels
Speaker 1: and like used his like tech genius brain to like
Speaker 1: help and stuff. Well there, Yeah, it was like, there's
Speaker 1: no reason in my head why he shouldn't have joined
Speaker 1: their team. It seems like that was what he was doing.
Speaker 1: I think he was killed twenty minutes later. Um, which
Speaker 1: again just like feeds into whether it was written intentionally
Speaker 1: that way or not, just feeds into some of the
Speaker 1: horror movie trips you see pop up in these movies,
Speaker 1: which is that the person of color always dies and
Speaker 1: it's always the first to die. Um. Even though it's
Speaker 1: for Diyson, it's pretty significantly into the movie. But he's
Speaker 1: he's the character we know best who dies and that sucks. Yes,
Speaker 1: so I wish I mean, yeah, I wish we just
Speaker 1: Dyson Justice for Dyson. Damn it, I got, I got
Speaker 1: a little bit of context, corner. Let's hear it for
Speaker 1: this whole. For the for these two movies. We'll start
Speaker 1: with Linda Hamilton's because the most recent Terminator movie is
Speaker 1: the first one. She's returned four since Terminator two, and
Speaker 1: she had some thoughts and how Sarah was portrayed in
Speaker 1: the first one as opposed to the second one. I
Speaker 1: guess the first one she went into it. I mean,
Speaker 1: no one thought it was going to be a huge hit,
Speaker 1: the first one, and so she went into it just
Speaker 1: like it was a job. She described Sarah in the
Speaker 1: first movie as quote so wholesome, my good puke unquote,
Speaker 1: and that she didn't feel particularly empowered by the character
Speaker 1: until quote that transition from damsel in distress to all right,
Speaker 1: she's got to pull everything she's got together to get
Speaker 1: Kyle up for the on your feet soldier. And so
Speaker 1: she said she was generally unimpressed with the first Terminator
Speaker 1: until she saw it and then was like, oh, there's something,
Speaker 1: there's something to this. And she also saw some metaphorical
Speaker 1: importance to the sex scene in the first movie where
Speaker 1: she's on top, which she felt was like a metaphor
Speaker 1: for um where that character is headed. So I thought
Speaker 1: that was that was cool. She also in regards to
Speaker 1: T two, there was I think kind of an interesting
Speaker 1: strange that you know, everyone can feel any number of
Speaker 1: ways about, but it's hair related. Um. So this is
Speaker 1: from an interview with the Hollywood Reporter from like a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, So it goes like this. Cameron
Speaker 1: originally proposed that Hamilton's chop off her golden brown locks
Speaker 1: after Sarah's escape from an asylum. She argued successfully mean
Speaker 1: Lynda Hamilton's for a ponytail instead, because, as she puts it, quote,
Speaker 1: you don't have to look a guy to be strong unquote.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I won that argument, she recalls, it
Speaker 1: wasn't even a vanity thing. And then later on, when
Speaker 1: she became this icon of strength and you know the
Speaker 1: legend of Sarah Connor, I realized that it's only because
Speaker 1: I didn't cut my hair that she became what she
Speaker 1: did in the minds and hearts of the audience, that
Speaker 1: this was a picture of feminine strength. I would love
Speaker 1: to say, oh, I was so ahead of my time,
Speaker 1: but it really was just an instinct that it wasn't right.
Speaker 1: And then she goes on to roast Demi Moore's haircut
Speaker 1: in g I Jane. So I mean we, I mean,
Speaker 1: we know that the Baltic stwoman is in charge. This
Speaker 1: is a rule that is held for three years now.
Speaker 1: But I thought it was interesting that she wanted to
Speaker 1: make that choice because I think in the case of
Speaker 1: some action movies written by men, that is a like
Speaker 1: a writing shorthand that is like to indicate, like I mean,
Speaker 1: and also it's like practical to get hair out of
Speaker 1: the way. But um, I thought it was interesting that
Speaker 1: she like made a stand on her character, especially against
Speaker 1: James Cameron, which gets us into Oh also, Linda Hamilton's
Speaker 1: has done more activism for the bipolar community than most
Speaker 1: people have. Great, I mean, just to touch on a
Speaker 1: little bit more, Um, yeah, I think there was for
Speaker 1: a while and even almost you know, even as recently
Speaker 1: as like mad Max Fury Road. But like the shorthand
Speaker 1: for like a really strong badass female character is like
Speaker 1: chop all her hair off or a shaver head kind
Speaker 1: of thing. And as someone who recently chopped off all
Speaker 1: my hair. You can't stop kidding people. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I see what she's saying. I think that's somewhat of
Speaker 1: a like, I don't know, Like, yes, I think it
Speaker 1: is important to see like maybe more traditionally feminine, like
Speaker 1: strong female protagonists in addition to seeing like like I
Speaker 1: don't think like a woman who maybe presents as more masculine.
Speaker 1: It's become a bit tropy. But I also don't think
Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that either, So like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, of course I think that I think or
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. I feel like what she is.
Speaker 1: I mean because partially the baldist woman in charge rule
Speaker 1: comes from the trope of writers using it a lot
Speaker 1: that way exactly, But but there's also it's rooted in
Speaker 1: some military reality, Like there's a lot of like it's
Speaker 1: based in some truth and some like silly like male
Speaker 1: writers tend to do this a lot. But it's like now,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, it's I feel like it's
Speaker 1: kind of neither here nor there um and like everyone
Speaker 1: should just be able to have their hair the way
Speaker 1: they want it. Yeah, yeah, and when you know, gender
Speaker 1: is very fluid, Yeah, and it shouldn't be too suggest
Speaker 1: that like short hair can't be considered feminine like that
Speaker 1: also not true, but I you know, I thought it
Speaker 1: was worth mentioning. Get around to Jimmy Cameron. Jimmy Cam
Speaker 1: legendarily horrible person to work with, specifically not like a.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends on how you look
Speaker 1: at it. He is a nightmare on set. I think
Speaker 1: he's very much an example of male director who can
Speaker 1: get away with fucking murder, doing things that female director
Speaker 1: of any amount of experience would get fired and blacklisted
Speaker 1: for doing. And uh, I would also apply that to
Speaker 1: really any marginalized community where it is there is some
Speaker 1: truth to like you only have so many shots, um,
Speaker 1: whereas white male directors with a with a specific style
Speaker 1: can just fucking get away with murder. Some examples of
Speaker 1: things he's done in ways he's been described. On the
Speaker 1: set of Avatar, he would take people's cell phones if
Speaker 1: they were out, and he would nail gun them to
Speaker 1: the wall. Um, let's see. Andrew Gumbel of The Independence
Speaker 1: says Cameron is quote a nightmare to work with studios
Speaker 1: fear his habit of straying over schedules and over budget
Speaker 1: He's notorious on set for uncompromising and dictatorial manner, as
Speaker 1: well as his flaming temper. Leonardo DiCaprio told Esquire magazine, quote,
Speaker 1: when somebody felt a different way on set, there was
Speaker 1: a confrontation. Uh, and what is it like? It's putting
Speaker 1: it lightly? Yeah, well, you know, Uh, Leonardo DiCaprio is
Speaker 1: not necessarily you know, you have to think that Leonardo DiCaprio,
Speaker 1: for the amount of time he spends around twenty three
Speaker 1: year olds, would be more woke than he is. But um,
Speaker 1: it's just not true. Speaking of their experiences on filming Titanic,
Speaker 1: Kate Winslett said that she admired Cameron but quote, there
Speaker 1: were times I was genuinely frightened of him. Unquote. He's
Speaker 1: just a notoriously scary guy. Linda Hamilton's also attested to this,
Speaker 1: where she was I think generally very like to his
Speaker 1: whims on set, and then the one time she asked
Speaker 1: to see playback of a scene she had just done,
Speaker 1: he screamed at her in front of everyone and they
Speaker 1: later got married, which she said was the biggest regret
Speaker 1: of her life. So what can you do? Uh? And
Speaker 1: then just a brief one more thing, as it pertains
Speaker 1: to Sarah Connor specifically. You may recall that James Cameron
Speaker 1: made some stupid as comments when Wonder Woman came out,
Speaker 1: and he just really couldn't take someone else making movies
Speaker 1: about women, and he was very reductive, and the way
Speaker 1: he described it, he said that gal Gadot was too
Speaker 1: beautiful and that she was objectified and that she was
Speaker 1: you know, and and you can view that however you want.
Speaker 1: The point is that James Caramon is like, my female
Speaker 1: protagonist is the best female protagonist, which means that he
Speaker 1: only thinks female protagonists can be one way, and there's
Speaker 1: only one way to be a female action hero. It's
Speaker 1: pitting women against each other for no reason. It's egotistical,
Speaker 1: it's annoying, and also it's incorrect because he says in
Speaker 1: twenty sevent TV says quote, Sarah Connor was not a
Speaker 1: beauty icon. She was strong, she was troubled, she was
Speaker 1: a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the
Speaker 1: audience through pure grit. Well, there may be some truth
Speaker 1: to that if you look back at the way that
Speaker 1: James Cameron describes Sarah Connor and his first screenplay. That's
Speaker 1: not true, It's just he's just like a he's just
Speaker 1: kind of a stupid ass. Yes, I agree. I have
Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit more specifics on
Speaker 1: this part of the context corner when he made those
Speaker 1: comments originally about Wonder Woman, and he also said that well,
Speaker 1: because this character was so sexualized, therefore the film is
Speaker 1: not groundbreaking exactly right, like okay? And then Patty Jenkins,
Speaker 1: the director of Wonder Woman, responded by saying, James Cameron's
Speaker 1: inability to understand what Wonder Woman is or stands for
Speaker 1: to women all over the world is unsurprising to me.
Speaker 1: Though he is a great filmmaker, he is not a woman.
Speaker 1: Strong women are great. His praise of my film Monster
Speaker 1: and our portrayal of a strong yet damaged woman was
Speaker 1: so appreciated. But if women have to always be hard,
Speaker 1: tough and troubled to be strong, then we aren't free
Speaker 1: to be multidimensional or celebrate an icon of women everywhere
Speaker 1: because she is attractive and loving, then we haven't come
Speaker 1: very far, have we. I believe women can and should
Speaker 1: be everything, just like male lead characters should be, and
Speaker 1: there's no right and wrong kind of powerful woman in
Speaker 1: the massive female audience who made the film a hit
Speaker 1: it is can surely choose and judge their own icons
Speaker 1: of progress. And then James Cameron doubled down on his
Speaker 1: previous and said about gal Gado all the like, but whatever,
Speaker 1: she was miss Israel and she's dropped dead gorgeous and
Speaker 1: that's not great and ground uh. And then he said
Speaker 1: added about Sarah Connor in Terminator to saying she wasn't
Speaker 1: there to be liked or ogled, but she was central
Speaker 1: and the audience loved her by the end of the film.
Speaker 1: And it's just like, you don't get it. I like
Speaker 1: Patty Jenkins is responsible, Like she shouldn't have even had
Speaker 1: to say anything. It's just like it's just another example
Speaker 1: of like he made it about him for no reason.
Speaker 1: No one asked him too, it was in response to
Speaker 1: nothing like. It was just like he just made it
Speaker 1: about him because that's what he's like. Yeah, And it
Speaker 1: just sucks that he is like one of the very
Speaker 1: influential directors in Hollywood who is a straight white man
Speaker 1: who is trying to, it seems, attempt to include women
Speaker 1: in meaningful ways in his stories, but he still has
Speaker 1: a very narrow view of what a like strong female
Speaker 1: protagonist should and could be. I hope that he has,
Speaker 1: you know, demonstrates I'm not I'm not going to set
Speaker 1: my watch by it. It like that was incredibly recent
Speaker 1: and completely fucking toned up into double down. It's just
Speaker 1: like it's embarrassing for him, and um, he should be ashamed. Indeed,
Speaker 1: the last thing I had to say in in this
Speaker 1: context corner is that it appears that the Sarah Connor
Speaker 1: character is very much based on James Cameron's mother. Did
Speaker 1: you know, well, we didn't know for today that James
Speaker 1: Cameron is Canadian. I suspect we didn't know this because
Speaker 1: he's notoriously mean, so no one would be like, he's
Speaker 1: probably Canadian, but he is Canadian and in a profile
Speaker 1: of him, and this is I wouldn't recommend this article.
Speaker 1: It was in Vanity Fair in two thousand nine when
Speaker 1: Avatar was coming out and was called James Cameron secret
Speaker 1: feminished and it is just praising woke icon James Cameron,
Speaker 1: like who cares? But the interesting passage concerning his mother
Speaker 1: goes as follows, quote Cameron's mother surely is Sarah Connor
Speaker 1: trapped in the body be of a Canadian grandmother. I
Speaker 1: don't know why Jim thinks I'm so reliant. Surely shrugged
Speaker 1: to me, professing bewilderment that she might be the inspiration
Speaker 1: for the gutty maternal characters and the Terminator in Aliens. Well,
Speaker 1: I can take a guess. While a mother with three
Speaker 1: kids under age eight, James was the oldest of what
Speaker 1: would ultimately be five, Surely joined the Canadian Women's Army Corps,
Speaker 1: happily trooping off on weekends and fatigues and combat boots
Speaker 1: to assemble a rifle while blindfolded and marked through field
Speaker 1: in the pouring rain. At a time and place, Ontario, Canada,
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties when most women set aside
Speaker 1: their personal pursuits for the sole ambition of homemaking. Surely
Speaker 1: was a painter and attended courses in subjects like geology
Speaker 1: and astronomy. Often she brought along her oldest son. So
Speaker 1: I think that that is that's lovely. So that makes
Speaker 1: the first Terminator movie even more confusing, because again it
Speaker 1: seems like he couldn't envision a world where a woman
Speaker 1: would be important because she's the one who has military
Speaker 1: training and combat training in leadership tendencies. But his mother
Speaker 1: was in the military. Right at least the course corrects
Speaker 1: on the second one. I don't know, I mean, but
Speaker 1: I was well speaking of course, correcting what may I share? Um?
Speaker 1: So these are spoilers for Terminator Dark Fate, So if
Speaker 1: you would like to avoid these spoilers, skip ahead about
Speaker 1: a minute and a half. Okay, I did see Terminator
Speaker 1: Dark Fate, Bragg and I will say that that movie
Speaker 1: corrects the idea that women are only important because they
Speaker 1: are mothers of the important men, because in this movie,
Speaker 1: the character being protected is Danny, a Latino X woman.
Speaker 1: She is the person who ends up becoming the leader
Speaker 1: of the human resistance against the machines. Also, the protector
Speaker 1: this time is also a woman. She is a an
Speaker 1: enhanced human named Grace, played by Mackenzie Davis and then
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor Limbda Hamilton's is back, and so you see
Speaker 1: a bunch of scenes with Danny, Grace, and Sarah all
Speaker 1: working together and getting stuff done. Now, Grace and Sarah
Speaker 1: seemed to hate each other for what feels like kind
Speaker 1: of no reason. So that's a little whatever, But the
Speaker 1: movie does, and the female characters aren't necessarily well developed.
Speaker 1: And I just had some other issues with the movie,
Speaker 1: but the movie does pass the BacT to test a bunch.
Speaker 1: So there's just some of the some of the mistakes
Speaker 1: that I think the earlier Terminator films did. The Dark
Speaker 1: Fate attempts to correct the day. At the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I just want women to write the movie
Speaker 1: and for people to stop rebooting franchises. Yes, because nothing's
Speaker 1: ever going to be as good as Terminator. To exactly
Speaker 1: stop trying and let's all move on with our lives. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that's all I had. That's all I had.
Speaker 1: Do these movies pass the Bechdel test, the first one,
Speaker 1: I feel like I think the first one might. It
Speaker 1: might because we've got Sarah talking to Ginger, her roommate,
Speaker 1: and we have Sarah talking to I believe the characters
Speaker 1: named in the credit as Nancy, who's the other waitress. Yes,
Speaker 1: I don't think we learned her name in the in
Speaker 1: the movie, but that other So the server at the
Speaker 1: diner tells Sarah about the news broadcast about another Sarah
Speaker 1: Connor getting murdered. Um, does Sarah respond, I can't totally remember.
Speaker 1: Sarah does respond. It's kind of I mean, it's kind
Speaker 1: of those throwaway. I mean, it's kind of too throwaway
Speaker 1: to account. But they say hi to each other at
Speaker 1: one point, you're late HIU. Then there's that moment where
Speaker 1: Sarah kind of responds, I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's necessarily with words, because it's like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: like one of those it's like they're talking to each other.
Speaker 1: It's about the murder of other women. But you know
Speaker 1: if maybe it maybe it counts. I don't know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that one, I feel like I wouldn't necessarily count those
Speaker 1: because we don't ever learn that character's name, I think.
Speaker 1: But then Sarah and Ginger do talk a little bit,
Speaker 1: but these conversations go something like Ginger says they're looking
Speaker 1: at each other in the mirror, and Ginger says, like
Speaker 1: better than the mortal man deserves. And then Sarah kisses
Speaker 1: Ginger on the cheek, and then later she's like, Ginger,
Speaker 1: have you seen Pugsley, my feminist icon iguana man? But
Speaker 1: he's a Pug's a male iguana. So responds and says,
Speaker 1: not recently, did you check the messages? And then they
Speaker 1: talk about the guy who cancels on Sarah so that
Speaker 1: doesn't pass us, And then she says, I'm going to
Speaker 1: a movie, kiddo, okay, Ginger says, and then Sara says,
Speaker 1: you and Matt have a good time. But we have
Speaker 1: two lines there, so maybe I don't know. If it
Speaker 1: does pass, it's it's the skin of its teeth. And
Speaker 1: then what about what you have for two? I think no,
Speaker 1: I think two does not pass. There was one moment
Speaker 1: where I thought Teresa and Sarah we're almost talking, but
Speaker 1: then it turns out Teresa was talking to her husband, right,
Speaker 1: although Sarah does say to Teresa, get down on the floor, bitch,
Speaker 1: fucking down now, and Teresa screams, so does it pass? Good? Um,
Speaker 1: so you know it doesn't. I don't know which is
Speaker 1: I think again, like you almost and not to say that.
Speaker 1: You know, Sarah Connor is characterized in the same way
Speaker 1: that Princess Leah is, but just that tendency of like
Speaker 1: there shall be no more than one strong woman in
Speaker 1: any movie, like that rule kind of holds in at
Speaker 1: least these two movies. Even though they the strong female
Speaker 1: character you get is great, there's no women for her
Speaker 1: to talk to. New So that's that I thing. What
Speaker 1: would you rate the movie? The two? I feel like
Speaker 1: we got to split it, right. Yeah, they're very different
Speaker 1: than the way they treat their female protagonists. I think, yes,
Speaker 1: I agree. Okay, So for Terminator one, I think I
Speaker 1: would only give this like a one and a half
Speaker 1: or two maybe just because of the whole like, you're
Speaker 1: only important because you're a mummy of a man who's important,
Speaker 1: and like she's not characterized enough. We don't know anything
Speaker 1: about her aspirations, she's not equipped with any skills that
Speaker 1: make her able to contribute to her own safety or
Speaker 1: of like getting away from the Terminator, different stuff like that. See,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's only like a one and a
Speaker 1: half kind of thing. The Terminator too, I would double
Speaker 1: it and give it a three because it's still just
Speaker 1: by the nature of you know, sequels and storytelling. The
Speaker 1: different hang ups I have about the first movie just
Speaker 1: carry over into Terminator to you know, the whole like
Speaker 1: very strong emphasis on but I'm a mummy and that's
Speaker 1: my major motivation and stuff like that. But because she
Speaker 1: we see, you know, all of her general badassery, I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go a one and a half and
Speaker 1: then a three respectively. I'm gonna go a one and four.
Speaker 1: I think one I really don't have any love at
Speaker 1: all for the first Terminator movie. I think that her
Speaker 1: character is like severely underwritten. And then I like the
Speaker 1: growth she shows in the last act of the movie,
Speaker 1: but I don't feel that it's more than uh nipples
Speaker 1: worth of growth. Um. I don't like that she's told
Speaker 1: the person she's going to become, she can't name her
Speaker 1: own child, she's defined by her motherhood, etcetera, etcetera. I
Speaker 1: you know, and again, I know that people are going
Speaker 1: to roast me, but I'm just like, I'm just not
Speaker 1: attached to these movies. One nipple for the first one, uh,
Speaker 1: and then I think I would go I I again,
Speaker 1: like you were saying, I have similar issues with her
Speaker 1: being defined by her motherhood in the second movie. But
Speaker 1: I think just kind of based off of how it
Speaker 1: does seem like, especially in this gigantically popular because the
Speaker 1: second movie did even better than the first movie. It
Speaker 1: made over five billion dollars and it was a very
Speaker 1: expensive you were saying, it was the most expensive movie
Speaker 1: made to date and it's still doubled its budget over
Speaker 1: And I think seeing a character like Sarah Connor kick
Speaker 1: Ass have those moments of Catharsis have the idea of
Speaker 1: believing women effectively tackled in a huge, mainstream blockbuster movie.
Speaker 1: Is yeah, I mean first time, that's like huge, And
Speaker 1: like I wish that there was less defining her by
Speaker 1: her motherhood. I wish that there was less I need
Speaker 1: to find a father for my boy. But I just yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's so It lets her be so much
Speaker 1: more and and definitely paved the way for more effectively
Speaker 1: written female action heroes. It's gonna go one in four,
Speaker 1: no factions for Jamie Tenney. Well there you have the Folks,
Speaker 1: the Terminator one in two episode and our three year
Speaker 1: anniversary episode, so you know, happy three years once again, Jamie.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Here's to five million. There's so many more
Speaker 1: movies to do. Um. Well, hey Jamie, where can people
Speaker 1: follow you on the internet? Oh, you can follow me
Speaker 1: at Jamie We never do this, we don't still with
Speaker 1: our inniversion. We don't have a guest so our Time
Speaker 1: to Shine. Can follow me on Twitter at Jamie Loftest.
Speaker 1: Help you can follow me and it's rum at Jamie
Speaker 1: christ Superstar. By the time this has released, you listen
Speaker 1: to my podcast about being in Mensa for a year
Speaker 1: called my year in mensa. Uh, and that's I think.
Speaker 1: But what do you have to say kit another plugcast?
Speaker 1: I sure do. It's called Sludge an American Healthcare Story.
Speaker 1: Season one has wrapped because luckily I am now sludge free,
Speaker 1: but season two will be coming out sometime in the
Speaker 1: new year, so check that out. You can follow me
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Caitlin Durante. And as for
Speaker 1: our podcasts plugs, you can follow us on social media
Speaker 1: at beecktel Cast. You can go to our Matreon our
Speaker 1: Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot com, slash pecktel Cast.
Speaker 1: It's five dollars a month. It gets you to bonus
Speaker 1: episodes plus our entire backlog of bonus episodes. Merch Got
Speaker 1: March at t flo dot com, slash the backdel asked.
Speaker 1: Holidays are coming up gang if you if you want
Speaker 1: to treat yourself, treat someone you love by all means,
Speaker 1: We've got all the designs. We also have our seasonal designs.
Speaker 1: If you want feminist icon baby Grinch, No, I think
Speaker 1: it's queer baby queer. I'm so sorry queer. I call
Speaker 1: baby grinch or just a simple grinch in heels. Text
Speaker 1: free Grinch as well um Or or any of our
Speaker 1: our designs. Feminist icon, feminist like all from Molina, Queer Icon,
Speaker 1: all the classics. Indeed, they're all there for you. And hey, Jamie, Yes,
Speaker 1: Asta Levista, Baby, Asta Levista, Caitlin, Bye bye