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Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?

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Speaker 1: Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing

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Speaker 1: it with the beck Del Cast. Hello and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante and my

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Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftuz. Happy three year anniversary, Jamie. I

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Speaker 1: know this is so exciting. It doesn't feel like it's

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Speaker 1: been that long. But it also it's been like the

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Speaker 1: weirdest three years in the history of the country, so

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Speaker 1: it also feels like forever true congratulations, congratulations to you.

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Speaker 1: Here we are. We just got fished. Talk us. We

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Speaker 1: just all still a vista babies least bitch now this

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Speaker 1: sweet we neo lived in We did it so today.

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Speaker 1: That is why it's just the two of us, just

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Speaker 1: the two of us. We're doing a little celebratory three

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Speaker 1: year anniversary episode. We got our fish tacos. We watched

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Speaker 1: two movies, not one, and I'm excited about it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: So before we jump in, just the regular biz out

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Speaker 1: of the way. Oh yeah, what is the podcast? What

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Speaker 1: is who are we? What have we been doing for

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Speaker 1: three years? Good Lord? Honestly, existential couldn't tell you. Well.

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Speaker 1: This is our podcast about the portrayal of women in movies. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and it is based around or As a jumping off

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Speaker 1: point for our discussion, we use the Bechtel test, Yes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bectel Wallace test. Absolutely, and that is

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Speaker 1: of course a media metric developed by cartoonists Alison Bechtel

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Speaker 1: that requires that two female identifying characters in a movie

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Speaker 1: have to have names, they have to talk to each

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Speaker 1: other about something other than a man for at least

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Speaker 1: two lines. By our standards, are are relatively low standards changed,

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Speaker 1: it's time to I mean, it's the tricky as if

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Speaker 1: we demand more nothing from that exactly. Oh what a nightmare.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe we should have gone. It would be

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Speaker 1: funny if we were, like, I think you start a

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Speaker 1: feminist movie podcast or James Cameron fan podcast. This episode

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Speaker 1: would have a little bit of a James Cameron is

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Speaker 1: was it was going multitudes going on with that person.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Terminators today because the new one just

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Speaker 1: came out about a month ago. I I did not

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Speaker 1: see it. I saw it, and I have a little

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Speaker 1: bit to say so, so if you haven't seen it yet,

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Speaker 1: I'll give us spoiler warning a spoiler warning, but we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about that a little later on. But these are

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Speaker 1: some of my favorite movies, which is why I insisted

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Speaker 1: that we do them. So what is it? What is

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Speaker 1: your history with the Terminator franchise? And like these two specifically,

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Speaker 1: by the way, we're coming the Terminator and Terminator to

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Speaker 1: Judgment Day. Correct. I saw them both when I was

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Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Yes, because my family owned not unlike

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Speaker 1: the James Cameron Titanic two VHS tapes, did they sell

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Speaker 1: it in a bundle? Yes, so my family had the

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Speaker 1: T one and T two VHS bundle box set and

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Speaker 1: they were in my house for a few years, but

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Speaker 1: I just didn't pay them any mind. And then one

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Speaker 1: day I was like, I'm sixteen years old, It's time

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Speaker 1: for me to watch Terminator and Passage. And I watched

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Speaker 1: them both on the same day, back to back, and

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Speaker 1: I loved them, especially T two, which is I think

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Speaker 1: widely considered the favorite the better movie, although there I

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Speaker 1: I met a number of people who like Terminator one better. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and I think they're silly, but also, you know, to

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Speaker 1: each of them, but yeah, I would I would rank

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Speaker 1: T two among my like top ten favorite movies of

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Speaker 1: all time. But to this day I love that movie particularly,

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Speaker 1: and just I mean, well, okay, so then I saw

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Speaker 1: those and I was like, I guess I'm a huge

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Speaker 1: Terminator fan now, so I have been for you know,

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Speaker 1: going on fifteen plus years. I saw a Terminator three

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Speaker 1: Rise of the Machines in theaters. It was terrible bad.

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Speaker 1: I saw a Terminator Salvation in theaters it was like fine,

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Speaker 1: but I never felt the need to watch it again.

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Speaker 1: Skipped Terminator Genesis and Denis Connor. Right, yeah, but then

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Speaker 1: I did see Terminator Dark Fate on opening day. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's your history, Jamie. Nothing. I didn't care about him, honestly,

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Speaker 1: not crazy about him. Now. I liked T Too a

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Speaker 1: lot from a feminist perspective. There's a lot about T

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Speaker 1: two in particular to love. I love watching Sarah Connor

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Speaker 1: kick ass. It's just not if you've been listening to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, this is never going to be a movie

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Speaker 1: that appeals to me. I don't like eighties blockbusters in general.

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Speaker 1: I get dragged in the reviews sometimes and I have

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Speaker 1: this to say, sorry for being so fucking young. No,

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Speaker 1: I just I've never seen these before. Prepping for this

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Speaker 1: episode because I intuited that they were not for me,

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Speaker 1: and that was generally true. I think that there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff to talk about, though, I am,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm excited to talk about it, but especially like

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Speaker 1: Terminator one in particular, I'm just like, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: the effects are pretty of the time, just like the

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Speaker 1: Stinth score that's happening. I mean, it's fun, it's fun,

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Speaker 1: but it's like pretty silly, I like respect to place

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Speaker 1: in history and all that, and it is kind of

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Speaker 1: cool from like a filmmaking perspective to see like a

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Speaker 1: movie that clearly was not being set up to have

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Speaker 1: a sequel, then have a sequel and have a sequel

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Speaker 1: piece so much better because I feel like that very

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Speaker 1: rarely happened through And also stuff for Paddington too, of course,

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Speaker 1: but like I mean, of course, I mean those are

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Speaker 1: the two major majorally cited one, T one and T

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Speaker 1: two and P one and P two and depending on

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Speaker 1: who you are, the Cheetah girls. Uh yeah, no, I

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Speaker 1: I just never gotten around to seeing it, and you

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Speaker 1: know now I can't say that anymore. And that's my

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Speaker 1: history with the Terminator franchise. I'm not going to see

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Speaker 1: the new one because I have to go see Parasite

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Speaker 1: five more times. Of course. Yeah, well should we dive

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Speaker 1: into the recap? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, So i'll

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Speaker 1: and I'll do my best to do a more condensed

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Speaker 1: version of the recap than usual for both movies, since

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Speaker 1: we are covering two. So if, if, if things aren't

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Speaker 1: as through as you like. Um, we do have to

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Speaker 1: remind you after three years, it is still a free podcast.

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Speaker 1: We've been very defensive lately. I mean, honestly, people are

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Speaker 1: coming at us more and more like read a book.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, Uh, we were not really required to read

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Speaker 1: a book. First of all, we have never purported to

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Speaker 1: have read a book. True, and we never will nor would. Wait. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the Terminator four, But we open in Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: ever heard of it? In nine? It's a post apocalyptic wasteland.

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Speaker 1: Little did they know that we were not even going

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Speaker 1: to survive until yeah, or that might actually be the

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Speaker 1: last year. Maybe they were right anyways, true yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but there's a war happening between humans and machines. Then

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Speaker 1: we cut back to l A. In four, two people

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Speaker 1: show up out of thin air. One of them is

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Speaker 1: Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is a terminator who has been sent

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Speaker 1: back in time to kill Sarah Connor. And you see

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Speaker 1: his butt, you see use but you see that. I

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Speaker 1: mean the newddy choices in this movie are I think

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Speaker 1: very interesting. True, there's more male nudity than female duty

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Speaker 1: than never happens. The other is Kyle Reese, a soldier

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Speaker 1: from the Human Resistance in the future who is sent

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Speaker 1: back to protect Sarah Connor. Uh. Then we meet Sarah Connor.

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Speaker 1: She is a young woman. She works as a server,

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Speaker 1: but the reason she's being targeted by the Terminator is

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Speaker 1: because she is the mother of John Connor, the leader

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Speaker 1: of the Human Resistance in the war against the Machines

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Speaker 1: in the future, which is good because we all know

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Speaker 1: that the value of a woman is ascribed to whose

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Speaker 1: mother she is. Right, Oh, yes, we'll talk all about that. Um.

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Speaker 1: And the Machines figure out that if they can go

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Speaker 1: back in time and kill John Connor's mother, then they

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Speaker 1: won't have to deal with John Connor. So both Reese

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Speaker 1: and the Terminator get their hands on some guns and

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Speaker 1: then they go to try to find Sarah. The Terminator

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Speaker 1: starts killing every Sarah Connor in the phone book, and

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Speaker 1: then he goes to kill Sarah at home, only she's

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Speaker 1: not home, but her roommate Ginger is, and the terminator

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Speaker 1: kills her thinking it's Sarah, right right after she has

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Speaker 1: sex because it's the eighties, right, because women who have

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Speaker 1: sex in a you know, scary movie have to die.

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Speaker 1: But again, at least the man dies as well. True. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the deaths of these other Sarah Connors are being reported

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Speaker 1: on on the news and Sarah here's about it, so

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Speaker 1: naturally she starts freaking out. And also at this time,

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Speaker 1: Sarah notices that this dude is stalking her. It's Reese,

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Speaker 1: but she assumes that it's the guy who's been killing

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Speaker 1: these other Sarah Connors. Well, but as we know, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: the guy who is talking you actually is your husband,

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Speaker 1: is your baby daddy is? I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of good lessons right at the top. So then the

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Speaker 1: terminator figures out where Sarah is and he goes to

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Speaker 1: kill her, but Reese intercepts him and saves Sarah by

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Speaker 1: shooting the terminator. Except it's really hard to kill terminators,

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Speaker 1: so he gets back up and keeps chasing them, and

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Speaker 1: then Reese is like Sarah, come with me if you

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Speaker 1: want to live. So they escape, and Sarah's like, what

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Speaker 1: the fuck? Who are you? What's going on, which in

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Speaker 1: fair legitimate questions, and Reese explains everything that I explained

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Speaker 1: just a moment ago, including how the Terminator is a

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Speaker 1: cyborg right armored alloy endoskeleton underneath living human tissue. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of this movie that is just things being

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Speaker 1: explained to a woman, the alleged protagonist of the movie,

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Speaker 1: and also that this Terminator will not stop until Sarah

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Speaker 1: Connor is dead. He also explains the nuclear war that

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Speaker 1: will take place a few years from now, that the

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Speaker 1: machine started because they became artificially intelligent, and more about

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Speaker 1: that in Terminator Too. Oh. Meanwhile, the Terminator is still

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Speaker 1: chasing them, and he has terminator vision, so he's very

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Speaker 1: god finding them great. It's given it's like target detected

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Speaker 1: and where it's like computer enhanced and hands some great

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Speaker 1: hack for sure. And then there's a car chase, a crash,

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Speaker 1: and then Sarah and Reese are taken into police custody

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Speaker 1: and a criminal psychologist, Dr Silberman talks to them and everyone,

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Speaker 1: based on the information that Reese gives thinks that Reese

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Speaker 1: is crazy because he's claiming to be a time traveler

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Speaker 1: from the future who was sent back to stop a

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Speaker 1: cyborg from killing Sarah. Right, So they're like, he is delusional,

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Speaker 1: and she is also not sure at this point whether

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Speaker 1: she believes him either. Right. And then the Terminator shows

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Speaker 1: up at the police station and we get the famous

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Speaker 1: I'll be back line and he kills several of the

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Speaker 1: police officers, but Reese manages to get loose. He and

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Speaker 1: Sarah escape again, and Reese tells Sarah he's like, by

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Speaker 1: the way, my name is Kyle. And then we realize

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Speaker 1: that there's Kyle visibility in this movie. I know, you're like, Wow,

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Speaker 1: we're really making space for Kyle's here. I mean, shout

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Speaker 1: out to all our Kyle fans on it, but also like,

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Speaker 1: take a good long look at the mirror. Um okay.

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Speaker 1: So then they go to a motel and Reese makes

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Speaker 1: some bombs to try to kill the terminator with, and

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Speaker 1: then he makes the love and then he makes them

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Speaker 1: love in what I am so excited to describe later

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Speaker 1: it's it's James Cameron's Pervy Corner. Oh, we're going to

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Speaker 1: read the script. I'm so thrilled I can't wait. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's disgusting. So then the terminator finds them again, and

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Speaker 1: there's another chase scene in a big explosion which melts

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Speaker 1: off the terminators like fleshy exterior hot hot literally and figuratively,

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Speaker 1: and he chases Sarah and Reese through what I think

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Speaker 1: like a robotics factory, some kind of factory and it

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Speaker 1: looks expensive. Yeah, Reese gets killed, and then Sarah finally

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Speaker 1: crushes the terminator in a hydraulic press and then she

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Speaker 1: said terminated. Fucker. We're like, we're like, whoa, she got

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Speaker 1: to do something made you wait to the end. But uh.

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Speaker 1: And then we cut to a few months later and

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Speaker 1: she is gregnant. She is greek net as heck with

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Speaker 1: her son John Greg greg Connor. I mean, wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: killed them to call him greg wouldn't have. Wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: because Kyle Reee made her gregnant. He Greek nodded her

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Speaker 1: the yeah for one one shot Kyle over there. Really

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Speaker 1: fertile guy that Kyle or her, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: we don't know. Maybe they're both very fertile group effort

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Speaker 1: after all. And then we see her recording what's basically

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Speaker 1: a podcast, her for her son, her son John Greg

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Speaker 1: greg and that is the end of that movie. Now

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Speaker 1: for Terminator to Judgment Day, which is another biblical reference.

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Speaker 1: Inside of what we can't deny is the fourteen bajiliant

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Speaker 1: Christ narrative trying to not be a Christ narrative. That's

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Speaker 1: very true. But until you said that earlier, when we

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Speaker 1: were watching T two, it had never crossed my mind

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Speaker 1: that this was a Christ narrative. I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: because I'm just seeing it though, Like if I had

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Speaker 1: seen it when I was young, I wouldn't have. But

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Speaker 1: now I'm just I'm so sickly. Even movies I'm loving

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Speaker 1: right now are still about fathers and sons. I'm so

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Speaker 1: I love Parasite. I'll see it a million times. It's

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Speaker 1: not even the spoiler. It's a father and son joint.

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Speaker 1: You're just like, I've just we get it. It's complicated

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Speaker 1: for you guys. There's been a I just whatever, it's

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Speaker 1: a father and son. And then this, yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: for T two especially. So we open with some more

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Speaker 1: shots of l A nine being a post apocalyptic wasteland.

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Speaker 1: Sarah Connor's voiceover kicks in saying that three billion lives

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Speaker 1: ended on August. That's some like four ship some snappy

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Speaker 1: snappy snappy the finger. Oh no, I'm Sanos. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: not to brag, but I'm fucking cool and I don't

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Speaker 1: see those movies. Well I'm cool and I do see them.

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Speaker 1: Mr Thanos and his little glovy. Yes, but this time

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Speaker 1: is Skynet, which is the name of my external hard drive.

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Speaker 1: I named it Skynet. Really, there's also a real Skynet now,

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Speaker 1: like there's a government project called Skynet, which yikes, I

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Speaker 1: hate anyway, So August nine is with has been deemed

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Speaker 1: Judgment Day from the people in the future because of

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Speaker 1: this nuclear attack that was initiated by the machines. Right,

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Speaker 1: So then we cut back to I think it's either

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Speaker 1: ninety five. I think it is. Wait, let me check,

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Speaker 1: because I think it maybe for some reason, is when

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Speaker 1: Judgment Day happens. It's a few years before that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: never mind, it's and two people show up out of

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Speaker 1: thin air again. One of them is Arnold Schwarzenegger and

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Speaker 1: he's bad to the bone. Oh my god. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then we're like, okay, we know this scene was done

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Speaker 1: better in the Parent Trap, but nice effort. Jimmy Cams

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Speaker 1: and then the other person is Robert Patrick from Spy

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Speaker 1: Kids Fame, his best known role. That's all we care

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Speaker 1: that he's done, yes, And both of them are trying

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Speaker 1: to reach young John Connor. One of them is trying

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Speaker 1: to kill him and one is trying to protect him.

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Speaker 1: Greg Greg Sorry, So Greg Connor has been living in

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Speaker 1: foster care for the past few years because his mom,

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Speaker 1: Sarah Connor ever heard of her, has been in a

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Speaker 1: psychiatric hospital because everyone thinks she is delusional when she

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Speaker 1: talks about Judgment Day and time traveling killer cyborgs, and

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Speaker 1: she's trying to escape a number of times. Uh, And

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Speaker 1: it seems like she's gotten close, but they keep putting

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Speaker 1: her under more and more surveillance, and so now she's

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Speaker 1: focused on getting very very strong, right, she's doing pull

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Speaker 1: up pull ups. Doctor Body Dr Silberman from the first

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Speaker 1: movie is there and he's the one who's like she

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Speaker 1: is like under his supervision. Um. Then we cut two

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Speaker 1: Cyberdyne systems where this dude, Miles Dyson is using technology

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Speaker 1: from the terminator that Sarah Connor crushed in the first

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Speaker 1: movie to develop other technology. Meanwhile, John Greg Connor Greg

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Speaker 1: is at a greg. He is at a shopping mall

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Speaker 1: which may or may not be the Glendelle Gallerria. We

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Speaker 1: don't know, Headcannon, it's the Glendale Galleria, and we're like,

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Speaker 1: go across the street to the Americana right good side? Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: And the two guys who showed up in the beginning

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Speaker 1: are both after him. And just when you think Arnold

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Speaker 1: Schwarzenegger is the bad Terminator again psych he's the protector.

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Speaker 1: He's a nice one. The first time I saw this

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Speaker 1: when I was sixteen years old, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: my fucking good one. And he's but he's like he

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Speaker 1: pulls the gun out of the box of roses and

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Speaker 1: then he sticks on the rose and you think he's

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Speaker 1: going to kill John Connor, but just kidding. He saves him.

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Speaker 1: So that means the other guy is the bad Terminator

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Speaker 1: and he is a T one thousand, a more advanced

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Speaker 1: model Arnold that he can turn into like animorphus goop.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't it look like he looks like an animal, like

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Speaker 1: if animals had a way bigger. But I'm guessing that's

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Speaker 1: why animals was ripping off, like they were trying to

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Speaker 1: do that effect. Did you ever watch animal didn't know

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Speaker 1: it was a TV show about kids that could remember

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Speaker 1: the books. Yeah, and they would turn into like Silver

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Speaker 1: Group and they're like, I'm an well now kind of

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Speaker 1: reminded me of that. Yeah, he's made of like liquid

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Speaker 1: metal and he can shape shift and then also like

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Speaker 1: turn his arms into swords. It kind of looks like

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Speaker 1: a screen saver too, the way that the liquid metal looks.

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Speaker 1: It looks like an old screen saver, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's like c G I, which was like just the

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Speaker 1: very beginning of c G I, but it's like it's

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Speaker 1: pretty Yeah, No, it's cool. I mean, even like seeing

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Speaker 1: the guys shape shift between different people and into Google

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Speaker 1: like it is, it still looks scary. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: John Connor is like, hey, Arnold, ha, we gotta go

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Speaker 1: get my mom. So they drive and go to pick

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Speaker 1: up Sarah Connor, but she's already like halfway escaped from

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Speaker 1: the hospital. In a scene that I now realize kill

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Speaker 1: Bill is very much ripping off potentially, Um, I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's no way. I mean, it's like Quentin Tarantino's

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Speaker 1: Saw Terminator too, like because there's i mean, the beats

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Speaker 1: are pretty close to identical where it's Sarah Connor. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what happens to Uma Thurman's character is like a more

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Speaker 1: severe assault, but she's assaulted while she's unconscious. She comes

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Speaker 1: to and she kills everyone in the hospital or you know,

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Speaker 1: injures them beyond and and then is able to escape. Yeah. True,

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Speaker 1: it's exciting. So yeah, she's she's well on her way

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Speaker 1: to escaping. But then she sees Arnold, who she thinks

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Speaker 1: it's still a bad terminator, but her son John Slash

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Speaker 1: Gregg is like, no, he's good. Now can you imagine

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Speaker 1: the e T S. D of It's got to be

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Speaker 1: a lot to hear. There's a lot. I mean, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that. But the thought about that. Arnold says,

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Speaker 1: come with me if you want to live, and that's

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Speaker 1: the same thing that Kyle Reyes said to her. So

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Speaker 1: she's like, I guess I got my boyfriend said that,

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Speaker 1: who I still love. I guess it's okay. So they

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Speaker 1: all meet up and then they get the hell out

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Speaker 1: of there and they go and gather some weapons, and

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Speaker 1: then Sarah goes after Miles Dyson, thinking that if she

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Speaker 1: kills him, she can prevent the impending war. He's doing

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Speaker 1: all the work to create what will eventually become Skynett.

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Speaker 1: This is one of my favorite moments in the movie

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't sure where this moment is going to go,

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Speaker 1: and end up being pretty cool, right, because she can't

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Speaker 1: bring herself to kill him because she's not a terminator

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Speaker 1: after all. She's wait for it, a mother, a mother

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Speaker 1: because she's in front of his family and so forth, right,

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Speaker 1: so instead she John, Arnold Miles go to Cyberdyne and

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Speaker 1: they destroy all of Miles Dyson's work on Skynet. Miles

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Speaker 1: ends up being like a hero. Yeah, yes, and I

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Speaker 1: hate that he has to die, and we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that as well. But the cops show up and then

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Speaker 1: Bad Terminator shows up and there's a big chase and

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Speaker 1: they end up in this steel mill and there's like

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Speaker 1: the fun liquid nitrogen slash, like bad Terminator gets frozen

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Speaker 1: and Arnold's like, ah, still a Vista baby, but the

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Speaker 1: Bad Terminator melts himself back together, and then there's some

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Speaker 1: more fighting and it's long. It's quite long, um. But

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Speaker 1: then eventually they managed to kill the Bad Terminator and

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Speaker 1: melt him for good in the liquid steel and then

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Speaker 1: Arnold Terminator is like, hey, wait a minute. You have

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Speaker 1: to kill me too because my CPU chip has to

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Speaker 1: be destroyed. And it's sad because he's daddy. Now he's daddy. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's right. Greg can't catch a break and he's so

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Speaker 1: upset he watches his daddy go into lava. You're just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what is poor Greg? Yes, um, hey, Jamie, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed this in the movie,

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Speaker 1: but when they go to pick up Sarah Connor from

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Speaker 1: the hospital, there's a sign at some point that says

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Speaker 1: she's in Pascadero. That's a six hour That's like, there's

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Speaker 1: no need to think about how large California is. But

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Speaker 1: they're traveling in state. But that's not to say that

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Speaker 1: it isn't a very long voyage. And there's like, I

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Speaker 1: think something that Sarah Connor really could have used. Tell me,

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Speaker 1: what do you think it is? Well? I think this

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Speaker 1: is very graceful transition into talking about away suitcases. Away

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00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: Caitlin creates thoughtful products built for the way modern travelers

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Speaker 1: see the world, not those future duface is like Sarah

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00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,160
Speaker 1: Connor people of now, they started with the perfect suits

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00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 1: and now they offer a range of essentials, all of

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Speaker 1: which would have made Sarah Connors travels more seamless. And

385
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: you think she'd know that, seeing as she's from the

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00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: near future. You would think you'd think, well, we have

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Speaker 1: some away suitcases. We got some, we got some. We've

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00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: used them recently. Recently we went to Denver for our

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00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: live shows and then I just used mine to go

390
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: across country to Boston and genuinely like, it's my new

391
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: prop suitcase for the show I travel with, because it's

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Speaker 1: just like I genuinely really I really enjoyed my away

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Speaker 1: suitcase and it's cute. I've never had one that had

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00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: like four wheels. Three sixty wheels are good. Yeah, before

395
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: I got my away suitcases, I was just like dragging

396
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 1: my old ones around the cotton or whatever, gravel, whatever.

397
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Speaker 1: But what we're trying to say here is that all

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00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: of the Way's suitcases are thoughtfully designed to last a

399
00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: lifetime with They've got durable exterior shells. They can withstand

400
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: even the roughest and toughest of baggage handlers. The inside

401
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: is cool. It has like a bunch of different pockets

402
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: and a whole interior organization system. What I like is

403
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: that there's like compartments so that your shoes aren't going

404
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: to touch your stuff, and just like stuff I hadn't

405
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: even thought about, and I just was like, oh, I

406
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 1: guess my shoes will touch my stuff and I don't care.

407
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: But now I can care because you know, and you

408
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: can separate clean and dirty clothes. It's really nice. And

409
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 1: there's a t s A approved combo lock that keeps

410
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: your belonging safe. Caitlin, My combo is zero zero zero

411
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: zero for extra security, but you could make a real

412
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: one theoretically if you know how those sorts of things work.

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00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: You know what Jamie I do and I did, Oh wow,

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00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: but you're not going to discuss it. Well, I guess

415
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: woman's heart is a notion of secrets. Other things to know,

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Speaker 1: Away products are designed to last a lifetime. As we said,

417
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: so if any part of your sight case, every rags

418
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: always standout, customer service team will arrange to have it

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00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: fixed or replaced. We also didn't even mention that there's

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00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: a phone charger in the Away suitcase, which there's like

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00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: a little battery pack, portable battery pack. You can plug

422
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425
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428
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429
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430
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431
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432
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433
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Speaker 1: my mom. The other day I saw my mom when

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438
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441
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442
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447
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Speaker 1: check out. All right, let's check in on Sarah Connor.

448
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: All right, well, I guess, I mean, there's there's a

449
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: lot to talk about here. It's so we're gonna attempt

450
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: to do a discussion that kind of spans both of

451
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: the movies, but we'll probably be clicking in and out.

452
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: Bear with us, Sarah. I mean, Sarah Connor obviously is

453
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: the main character worth discussing, and she's fortune, I mean,

454
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: I would say the best remembered character from the movie,

455
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 1: even though Arnold is also I don't know, maybe they're tied. No, definitely,

456
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: Arnold is far more. Really, god damn it, they're the

457
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: second one ends up being a lot more than right

458
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 1: out there. And then she also she also got her

459
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 1: own TV series, The Sarah Connor Chronicles, which I admittedly

460
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: never watched. Well, Caitly and you're canceled. I mean, like

461
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: the fact that like Arnold is on the poster for

462
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: both movies, like that string shows like who's potentially the

463
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: more valued character in this franchise, but Sarah Connor for

464
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: our purposes, she's by far the most right. But but

465
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: I think it is kind of fascinating to watch how

466
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: she is treated differently in both movies. I think it's

467
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: it's like one of those cool things where you can

468
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: see kind of you know, like you can track the

469
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: growth of a filmmaker in the space of seven years,

470
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: you can track the growth of you would imagine society

471
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: a little bit in seven years where in the first

472
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: Terminator Sarah Connor, I think she's still more active than

473
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: a lot of female protagonists of but she's not extremely active.

474
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: She is cast as a mother and a love interest

475
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 1: for the most part until the very very very end.

476
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: She's not made out to look as particularly qualified, which

477
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 1: I think is like both one of the coolest and

478
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: most frustrating things about her character, because it feels like

479
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: the first movie, I feel like it's all about withholding information.

480
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: She doesn't have any of the information or skills she

481
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: needs to be an active participant in the first movie,

482
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: and then the second one is the total opposite. She

483
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 1: has most of the information and all of the skills

484
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: she needs to survive. So it's cool, It is cool

485
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: and I mean, as much as we get frustrated when

486
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: a female protagonist, like in an action franchise, isn't equipped

487
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: with like the skills and the information she would need

488
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: to have to be a total bad that also, right,

489
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: it makes sense at least in the first movie. Yeah,

490
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: I just I think that that's like one of those

491
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: things that it comes down to, like that was a

492
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: narrative choice to give her literally no information or I

493
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: just like that's one of those things where I wish,

494
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: like if she doesn't have the skills, I mean that

495
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: makes sense, she is an l a waitress, why would

496
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: she have these combat skills? But then at least give

497
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: her some information, give her something that doesn't mean that

498
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: she's going to have to go to like the whims

499
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: and be constantly needing. I don't know. I just feel

500
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 1: like in the first one, she never really has an

501
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: upper hand until the end, And I feel like that's

502
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: like a narrative issue, or it was for me, I

503
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: see what you're saying. And I might be like, because

504
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: I love these movies so much, like I it might

505
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: be difficult for me to like separate my feelings and yeah,

506
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: but like I don't know, like, yes, of course, it

507
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't make any sense for her to have combat training,

508
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: and why would she have information about the future. But

509
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: like then like Kyle Ree's like gives her a lot

510
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: of information. Yeah, but that's her stuff. But that's what

511
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying is like she there's nothing she can tell him,

512
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, you know what I mean. Like, I feel

513
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: like it wouldn't have like made the concept of the

514
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: movie work less if she even at one point in

515
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: the movie had information that he didn't. I was able

516
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: to move the plot forward, Like if she was like, hey,

517
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: there's a blockbuster around the corner that we can hide

518
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: in four and you don't know what blockbuster is even

519
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: like goofy four knowledge that could come into Like I

520
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: just I was fresh because usually I feel like most

521
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: movies will toss you a bone of like something of

522
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: like I mean, obviously, you know she sort of becomes

523
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: the fish out of water in her own world, but

524
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's usually something and so I was kind

525
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: of like, I see what you're saying, I misunderstood before.

526
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, that yeah, that's a valid criticism for sure.

527
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: Another thing with her in Terminator one is that I mean, well,

528
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: I mean, my my issue with the Sarah Connor thing is.

529
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: I agree that she is a feminist icon, especially in

530
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: T two. I love so much about her, but it

531
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: does like her whole. You know, she's she's in her twenties,

532
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: she's in nineteen. She's nineteen fund the first movie, so

533
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: she's nineteen, but she's twenty eight because movies. But she's nineteen.

534
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: She's a waitress in l A, which you would imagine

535
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: she has some sort of creative aspiration. Movie has no

536
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: interest in why she's in l A, how she got there,

537
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 1: what her dreams are, what her goals are. Two men

538
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 1: show up and tell her this is what your life is.

539
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: You will give birth to this boy, and this is

540
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: and and and we only see her push back against

541
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: it one time, in that scene with Kyle, where she's like,

542
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: I can't even battle to checkbook, like I don't have

543
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: I can't be this like you know, military hero, I

544
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: can't be this terminator destroyer or whatever. And that's the

545
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: only time we see her stand up for herself about like, well,

546
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: what about what I want? What about my choices? Which

547
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: we haven't I'm trying to be an actor over here,

548
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: you would imagine trying to write audition for The for Aliens,

549
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: directed by James Cameron, has come out in two years.

550
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: I gotta get, I gotta get, I gotta start taking classes.

551
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: But the movie has I mean, it's and I and

552
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: I and I know that this is a critical part

553
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: of the movie working. But you know, it is a

554
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: young woman who two guys from the future show up

555
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: and say this is what your life is, and you

556
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: have to make this work. And she doesn't really have much.

557
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: The movie doesn't give her much space to say, no,

558
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: I get to decide what I do with my life. Yeah,

559
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: it's like, well, can I still moonlight as an actress?

560
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 1: In addition to that, that's the most frustrating thing about

561
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: this movie in particular. And then it carries over into

562
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: T two, but it becomes a little like it's so

563
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: much because like Sarah Connor is targeted because she's important,

564
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: but she's only in poor because she is the mother

565
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: of a man who is actually important to the resistance.

566
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: Because these movies can't envision a world where a woman

567
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: is important because she's the powerful resistance leader. They can

568
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: only see a world where a man would be in

569
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: that leadership role. And she's his mother, his mother, I mean,

570
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: and it's cool. It's so I mean, there is this

571
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: like and I know that we have to consider the

572
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,439
Speaker 1: time that this came out in where it was. I mean,

573
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: for a long time, Sarah Connor was like about as

574
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 1: good as you could get for a female protagonist in

575
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: an action franchise. And for all the Jimmy Cammy issues

576
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 1: will bring up later, like, he was one of the

577
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: only directors that would prioritize that and for sure work.

578
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: So for all of its flaws, it definitely was progressive

579
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: for its time. But you do see, just kind of

580
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: with some time and reflection that she is still relegated

581
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: in both movies to an extent to her relationships to men.

582
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: And and that's another thing that I feel like is

583
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: kind of fully taken from uh Kill Bill and the Bride,

584
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: is that you know, you can see this woman who

585
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: is kicking as she's very capable, she's excellent at what

586
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 1: she does, but it's the connection to motherhood that ends

587
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: up driving the story. Women aren't allowed to have motivations

588
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: that aren't connected still somehow to domesticity. And again that's like,

589
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: obviously not to knock the concept of motherhood, but it

590
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: is like the way we most frequently see women defined

591
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: by in movies, and even in these like very famous

592
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: action movies, it's still that somehow a woman can only

593
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: be a participant in narratives like that if she's also

594
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: framed as you know, being a mother oftentimes. And yes,

595
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: of course, like to clarify, we love motherhood, we love mom's.

596
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: It's just the societal expectation that women must be mothers

597
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: and you've got no other choice, and that's what your

598
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: role is as a woman in society. That's what we

599
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: take issue with. Well. And also I think, just like

600
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 1: my frustration is just like I think it's wonderful that

601
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: there's movies about motherhood and like frank discussions of motherhood

602
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 1: women aren't I mean there's one woman one for four

603
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: in both of these movies. Is there a woman actually

604
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: writing about it? So women are not allowed to have

605
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: really generally a perspective on motherhood. It is an invented

606
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: perspective forced upon them by a male writer and a director.

607
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: And it's also just like that is the only narrative

608
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: you can have, like there's not many alternatives, and so

609
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: I don't know, And if it sounds like I'm being

610
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: too harsh, it's because I don't have any um sentimental

611
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: connection to these movies, but especially in the first one,

612
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 1: the christ narrative was so heavy handed, and then at

613
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: the end they're like, Jesus is about to be born,

614
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I don't, I can't give a fun

615
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: Jesus name is Greg and he's not to be born,

616
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: you know. Also, to just touch on something that you

617
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: just mentioned, Um, the writers of these two films both

618
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 1: were written by James Cameron, and then on the first

619
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: Terminator movie, Gail and Heard has a co writing credit,

620
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: and then on the second movie, UM William Wisher has

621
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: a co writing credit. However, for the first movie, that

622
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: would appear to have been co written by a woman.

623
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: According to Wikipedia, Gail and Heard suggested some edits to

624
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: the script after she came on board as a producer

625
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: of the film, and then took a screenwriting credit for

626
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: the film, but James Cameron has stated that she did

627
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 1: no actual writing at all. I read that as well,

628
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: which is just like, I mean, I'm glad she got paid.

629
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: Love when women get paid, but also like let them

630
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: do the fucking job. Yeah, Gail and her, I mean

631
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: it's she produced both of these movies. She's produced a

632
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 1: number of famous movies. Um in a time where not

633
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 1: a lot of women were producing movies, much less movies

634
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: this huge, So that is great, it is. I mean,

635
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: if if you look at the script for a Terminator one,

636
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: it's very clear that it's a James Cameron script because

637
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: it is disgusting. It's so you're just like, oh, this,

638
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: there's no way this isn't written by a man who's

639
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: never made a woman come into life. Like that's the

640
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 1: only energy you get from it. So yeah, I saw

641
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: that as well. You're like, oh, that totally tracks based

642
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: on the very bizarre excerpt that I've read. I mean it,

643
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: I am happy at very least and again it's like

644
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: eighties early nineties, Like you're like, I'm glad that a

645
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 1: woman was involved and like had influence over the store

646
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: or at least some influence over the story and what happened.

647
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: I mean. It's frustrating though, because even the Terminator movie

648
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: that just came out five credited writers, all men, ye,

649
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 1: which is just like a continuation of this fucking hideous thing.

650
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: Then I feel like we're seeing as like as it

651
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: becomes more of a priority in an audience to manned

652
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: for there to be more inclusion in movies where the

653
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: front facing stuff, the on camera stuff is far more inclusive,

654
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: and then behind the camera it's exactly the same. Pisses

655
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: me because in Terminator Dark Face, and this is not

656
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: a spoiler because if you've seen any of the trailers

657
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: you know this, but the three main characters of that

658
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 1: film are three women, and you're not going to believe.

659
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: Fans of the Terminator franchise, we're mad about it. Another

660
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: kind of conflicting thing I have about this first movie

661
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: is so a man is sent back as Sarah Connor's

662
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: protector and savior essentially, um So, the plot of this

663
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: movie forces a woman to be in a situation where

664
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: she's constantly needing to be protected by a man because

665
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: he does have the upper hand in terms of having

666
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 1: the combat skills and all the information necessary to keep

667
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: her alive. She has nothing, but all at the same time,

668
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: though she's like, she isn't framed as being helpless. She

669
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 1: like doesn't she does stuff, you know, like, especially towards

670
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: the end, it does take a while take the whole move.

671
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: But also if I was in that situation, like I

672
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: have no combat training, if someone was like sent back

673
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 1: to kill me, I'd be like, yeah, I don't know

674
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: how to survive either. Well, again, I think it's a

675
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: story flaw because that's like it didn't have to go

676
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: that way. She could have had something she I agree

677
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: that she if she even just had like knowledge of

678
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: contemporary l a and she can be like we let's

679
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: go this way or like hide here. Yeah, like that

680
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 1: would have been that would have been nice the end.

681
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: I like, I like all of her scenes at the end,

682
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: like when she starts to when she's allowed to drive, right, Yeah,

683
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: so in the third act, essentially when she starts to

684
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: become a bit more active, where she yeah, like you said,

685
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: she is driving the various cars that they've stolen. Um,

686
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: she does veer the terminator off the road when he's

687
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: chasing them on the motorcycle. She saves Kyle, and I

688
00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: mean he has to save her a number of time,

689
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 1: but like their truck rolls, so she like pulls him

690
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: out of the truck and saves him U And then

691
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,720
Speaker 1: after the terminator gets back up out of the fire,

692
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: she's the one who like the glass. She unlocks the

693
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: door to get into the factory. And then yes, she's

694
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: the one who like lands the final blow of like

695
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: crushing and destroying the terminator, which is cool, you know,

696
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 1: because you were like kind of set up by that

697
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: scene to make it seem like Kyle is going to

698
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 1: be the one that does it, but he died but

699
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: then he was too weak, and then she gets it

700
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: was really exciting when she when she gets like the

701
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: death book is so I mean, female protagonists very infrequently

702
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: get that in their own movie. So I thought that

703
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, I mean the last act you start

704
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 1: to see like the and it was I mean, it

705
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 1: was kind of like heartwarming, even though you're like the

706
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 1: love story is so bizarre, but it was kind of sweet.

707
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: I thought to see Kyle be kind of like star

708
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 1: struck by her and like, I don't know, just kind

709
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: of that was something I'm like, Oh, if I had

710
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: seen that movie when I was younger, it would have

711
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: like hit for me. Where she feels like, oh, I'm

712
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: just a waitress. There's there's not much to me, and

713
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: then he's like, no, do you know how cool you're

714
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 1: going to be or like the coolest person in the world.

715
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: She's like what, and you know, like that I thought

716
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: that was kind of sweet, but It's like, did she

717
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: really need that validation from from a future man. I

718
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: don't know. I think she's already cool even before she

719
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: for sure is. She drives a moped, she has a

720
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: pet iguana, feminist song hugs iguana. You know she she's

721
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: an independent woman. We know what her job is. She

722
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: has a roommate, ginger who she seems to get along

723
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: with really well. I feel like that we don't know

724
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: that much. We don't know much. The end goal air

725
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: endgame isn't being a diner waitress. Probably not, It isn't.

726
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 1: But one of the things I did like about what

727
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: we know about her character early on is her date

728
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 1: bails on her on a Friday night, but she decides

729
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: to like go out to dinner in a movie by herself,

730
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: because like in a lot of movies you would see

731
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: that happen, and then you would see the woman like

732
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: cry over a tub of ice cream at home and

733
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: like not that I mean I do that sometimes, Like

734
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: it definitely happens, but in terms of setting a precedent, right,

735
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: that's become yeah, like the whole like a boy didn't

736
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: want to go with me, I'm just gonna eat ice cream.

737
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: That's become like such a trope. So yeah, I really

738
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: liked that. You know, she's just like fun it, I'm

739
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: gonna go to a dinner in a movie. But like,

740
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: what does she want to do with her life? We

741
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: don't know, Carmen doesn't care. We gotta take a quick break,

742
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 1: but we'll be back. Hilarious. You get what I did there, Jamie,

743
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: no unpack it during the break. Okay, Well we'll be

744
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 1: back another thing. Well even Okay, So even though we

745
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: don't know really anything about her aspirations or you know,

746
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: just that much in general, and she doesn't get a

747
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: chance to be super active until around the third act

748
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: of the movie, I would argue that she's still fairly

749
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: She's reaching come to the defense of this movie, probably

750
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: too much, But I would argue that she's fairly proactive

751
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: throughout the movie in the sense that, like when she

752
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: thinks she's being stalked by Kyle Reese, like she goes

753
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: into a yeah, she says, I mean she goes into

754
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: a public place because she thinks that'll be safe. She

755
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: calls the police, like I think in a lot of

756
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 1: movies where a woman is being chased by a killer,

757
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: And maybe this is more common in like horror slasher movies.

758
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 1: But also I would argue that Terminator is not unlike

759
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: a slasher horror film. But in a lot of cases,

760
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: the women in those movies make stupid choices. And that

761
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: might sound victim blame me, but they're stupid choices because

762
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: the male writers who write those characters I think that

763
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: women are stupid, and so they write them that way.

764
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: And I think at that point, um, I totally see

765
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: what you're saying. And and that stands just strictly based

766
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 1: on how her roommate is treated, her roommate and her

767
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 1: roommate's boyfriend when they're murdered in cold blood right after

768
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: having sex. That is like a horror movie tried, Yeah,

769
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: for sure. But Sarah is like using the best judgment

770
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: she can, whereas in like other movies of this era, again,

771
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: especially like you know, slasher movies, the female characters were

772
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: using terrible judgment. And even like I watched a movie

773
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:37,800
Speaker 1: around Halloween time that came out in a terrible horror

774
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: movie on Netflix about a killer clown called Terrifier. But

775
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: I was like, this looks horrible. Let me watch this,

776
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: and in that movie again, this movie can put two

777
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: years ago, but all the female characters just like kept

778
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: making one stupid choice after another, like they would go

779
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: back into the creepy warehouse for no reason at all

780
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: after a bunch of very scary stuff had just happened

781
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,320
Speaker 1: to them. I think we're used to seeing like female

782
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: characters using poor judgment or just like not being very proactive.

783
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: But in this movie, like Sarah is making smart choices

784
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: and she's being proactive. And even though she does like

785
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: make a mistake because she thinks she's talking to her

786
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: mom and tells her the number of the motel that

787
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 1: she's staying at, but it was really the terminator who

788
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 1: had been impersonating her mother she had knowing that she

789
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: didn't know. Yeah, so even like a mistake that she makes,

790
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: she didn't do it because she's like written as a

791
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: an airheaded, underwritten female character. I still think she's an

792
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: underwritten female character in the first movie, but I see

793
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 1: she has been I viewed with street smarts, and that's yeah,

794
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 1: that's good. And that's also I mean, like you said before,

795
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: this is a movie coming out in a decade where

796
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: action movies had almost no interest in featuring women. Like

797
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: the action movies of this time, where things like die Hard,

798
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: First Blood, RoboCop, Indiana Jones, Lethal Weapon, Top Gun, like

799
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: all these like hyper hyper masculine, dripping with toxic masculinity films.

800
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: Uh that didn't have any vested interest in female characters,

801
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: which might be a good point. I mean, and it's

802
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: weird because you get a taste of that with the Terminator.

803
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 1: But the Terminator is kind of like this, I don't know,

804
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a smartly written character where the

805
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 1: Terminator I mean, and we know now that like robots

806
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: are also prejudiced because they're made by people, but I

807
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: feel like the Terminator is created to be someone who

808
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 1: doesn't discriminate, just has a mission and accomplishes it. So

809
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: there's not even even though he is like technically the

810
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: lead macho blah blah blah of the movie, you don't

811
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: see that like inherent sexism in him because he's a machine.

812
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,760
Speaker 1: A machine he's so you're like, oh, that's kind of cool,

813
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: like you you don't get the casual sexism that you

814
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: would in a die Hard kind of movie because he's

815
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: a computer. Cool and I do. I mean, this is

816
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: maybe a good point to bring up James Cameron's pretty

817
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: consistent commitment to not objectifying Linda Hamilton's in both of

818
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: these movies, which is again it sounds like a very

819
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: like least you can do creative choice, but not a

820
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: lot of movies we're making that creative choice, especially in

821
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: like blockbuster movies, where that's so inherent even now truly. Yeah,

822
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: I mean eighties action movies. If there was a woman

823
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: in the story, she was very much overly sexualized, like

824
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: retuitious nudity, all that kind of stuff, and if she

825
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: was participating in the action, it wasn't a very skimpy

826
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: outfit the whole bit. So that is cool, and you,

827
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: I think, especially in the first one, you see more

828
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: made of Arnold Schwarzenegger's body than of Linda Hamilton's. You

829
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: do have that brief sex scene that we are going

830
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: to do a reading from. I mean, she should we

831
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: get to that now, because I would like to talk

832
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: about this romantic subplot. Okay, well, let's I guess start

833
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: by like reading Okay, so do you who do you

834
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: want to be? Say A Reese? And then I'll read

835
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 1: action lines. Okay, I'll be Reese? Okay, ready, yes, action

836
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 1: and so you feel nothing. It's better that way Kyle

837
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: Reese takes a long, slow breath before he answers, and

838
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,800
Speaker 1: when he does, his voice as a new quality and

839
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: unfamiliar tenderness. John Connor gave me a picture of you once.

840
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: I never knew why. It was very old, torn faded.

841
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: You were young like you are now. You weren't smiling,

842
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: just a little sad. I always wondered what you were

843
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: thinking at that second. Oh, he's so cringe e. He

844
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: closes his eyes, reaches towards her. His fingertips traced the

845
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: contour of her nose, chin, cheeks. I memorized every line,

846
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: every curse, opens his eyes, looking right at hers. Sarah,

847
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 1: I came across time for you. I love you, I

848
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: always have. Sarah's quietly overwhelmed. Reese looks away. I'm so sorry.

849
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said Kyle. And now the money shot.

850
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: She leans forward and kisses him. His face is frozen

851
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: a mask. She continues tenderly. He begins to respond. The

852
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: damn breaks and he tolds. He holds her in a tight,

853
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: trembling embrace, clinging to her like life itself. Carmon is

854
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: literally a virgin. Kyle picks her up and carries her

855
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: to the bed. She kisses his neck and chest, tracing

856
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 1: his scars with her lips. He unbuttons her blouse very slowly.

857
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: Sarah guides his powerful hands over her. A sequence of

858
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: cuts details impression Sarah a very close angle as she

859
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 1: grimaces in divine agony agony Reese his face wrapped, his

860
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: hand clutching the pillow as if to kill it. It

861
00:50:54,600 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: is explosive, torrential, a confluence of fate and will disgusting.

862
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 1: James Cameron writing like competitive, erotic, fantic, Like I was like, sir,

863
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: this is a wendy. It's like, please take this out.

864
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I think it really did produce

865
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: one of the most sexless love scenes I've ever seen.

866
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: Hate this sex scene in the movie. Although okay, here's

867
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: what I will say about this. It's written a little

868
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 1: differently in the script. What ends up on screen is

869
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: Sarah being the one who initiates romantic contact with Reese,

870
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: like she's the one who comes onto him because she's like, Hey,

871
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: what are the women like in your time? And he's like,

872
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:38,959
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't talk to women. I've only

873
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: ever loved you. And then he's like, oh no, I

874
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: should have said that. And then he goes over and

875
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,879
Speaker 1: starts fiddling with his bombs because he doesn't know how

876
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 1: to be around a woman, know how boys are. And

877
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: then she kisses him and then they have sex, so

878
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: and then that's she gets gregnant. But I mean, yeah,

879
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: she's the one who's like initiating this sexual encounter, which

880
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: I always like to see. It is nice. Yeah, and

881
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: then and again it's like another thing that this movie

882
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: does that might not seem I mean even that now,

883
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: I feel like there's still not a lot of women

884
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: in movies who initiate sex scenes except for Rose and Titanic.

885
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: James Cameron needs a woman to initiate unfortunately, one of

886
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: the other nastiest sex scenes ever written. Um. What I

887
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: don't like though about this romantic subplot is one it exists.

888
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 1: It exists at all. It was a studio note I

889
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: read that strengthening the love interest between Sarah and Reese

890
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 1: was a studio James Cameron agreed to it because apparently

891
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: it hadn't been written quite that way, like their relationship

892
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: wasn't as strong and romantic in the original script, so

893
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, sounds great. What I really hate about

894
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: it is that he shows up as this protector man

895
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: she rescues her, and then also like treats her really badly.

896
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: The way he treats her physically at the getting made

897
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 1: me very incurtently. He's repeatedly like scrabbing, grabbing, and I

898
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: know it's like it's an emergency, but he keeps grabbing

899
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: her arm and you're like, dude, he's saying. He's like,

900
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,399
Speaker 1: do exactly as I stay, don't move unless I say,

901
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: don't make good sound unless I said do you understand? Yeah,

902
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: just a lot of like extremely aggressive, pretty violent actions

903
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: towards her. And then I have sex a while later.

904
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: So not into it. It's not great. I get how

905
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 1: it fits into the story, and it feeds into the

906
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 1: whole franchise, and you're like, oh now, it's kind of

907
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 1: this story element that's inseparable from the entire franchise. And

908
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: you know, hooking up with the future man sounds hot,

909
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: sounds great. I just like, I I don't know, I

910
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: have more. I I don't like that it is such

911
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: an obvious studio note relationship um that carries into the

912
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: Terminator too in a way that is like doesn't feel necessary,

913
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: where she's like I still love him, and which will

914
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 1: get into because the whatever my thing is Listen, Sarah

915
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: Connor didn't get to decide what to do with her life.

916
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: She didn't even get a name her own fucking kid.

917
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 1: It's like, so I just she wanted to name him Greg.

918
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 1: She wanted to name him Greg, which makes logical sense.

919
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 1: The relationship is annoying and the sex scene is weird.

920
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: Every eight I'm just like, who is we were saying

921
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 1: this when we were watching, Like you can just feel

922
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: that there is an entire crew in the room. It

923
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like you're just like, oh, the actors seems

924
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: so like I'm like, they must be so uncomfortable otherwise

925
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: why would this scene appear this way? I think, Yeah,

926
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: I mean, what really bothers me about it is not

927
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,799
Speaker 1: I mean the sex that they have fine, Like I

928
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 1: think their trauma bonded together that makes people horny, and

929
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,759
Speaker 1: I think, you know, they have sure sex. But when

930
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: it bleeds over into this movie and she's like, I

931
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: still love him. I think about him all the time

932
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: and da da da, and like she has dreams about him,

933
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: Like I don't they knew each other for a day,

934
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: Like do you really are you in love with him. Well,

935
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: if we're formally crossing over in Determinator to territory, I mean,

936
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: obviously Sarah has a like infinity more agency in Terminator

937
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: two than she does in the majority of the first one.

938
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: And and I feel like T two is like the

939
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,399
Speaker 1: feminist icon version that people really remember in cosplay as

940
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. I mean you can literally see how,

941
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 1: like Laurie Strode is dressed like Sarah Connor from T

942
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,399
Speaker 1: two in the Halloween movie that came out last year,

943
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: Like it is a very enduring version of this character

944
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: something I wanted to touch on, and this does sort

945
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 1: of just demarket I guess, like the difference of how

946
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: he approaches her character in the first and second movies, which,

947
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: by the way, he first describes her. So in the

948
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: first movie, this is how he describes Sarah Connor. Sarah

949
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 1: Connor is nineteen, small and delicate, featured, pretty in a flawed,

950
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: accessible way. She doesn't stop the party when she walks in,

951
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: but you'd like to get to know her, her vulnerable quality,

952
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: masks of strength she doesn't even know exists. So that's

953
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 1: pretty fucking patronizing. Uh. And then in T two, this

954
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 1: is how he describes her, he is truly a horrible writer. Uh.

955
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor is not the same woman we remember from

956
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: the last time. Her eyes peer out through a wild

957
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: tangle of hair, like those of a cornered animal, defiant

958
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,640
Speaker 1: and intense, but skittering around looking for escape at the

959
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: same time fight or flight down. One cheek is a

960
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: long scar from just below the eye to the upper lip.

961
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: Her voice is low and chilling monotone. So he kind of,

962
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: I mean, and you can see this, you can see

963
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: like shades of the Sarah from Terminator one, but it's

964
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: for the most part, like a really different like you

965
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: can see where she's coming from, but she's very different

966
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: and t two and like for sure way more fun, definitely,

967
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: but there are still like some little things that just

968
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: like bug me as the James Cameron has this thing

969
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 1: where he for his time Peak Cameron, although you know

970
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: Avatar a billion, maybe there's a second coming, but for now,

971
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: if we're considering eighties and nineties, Peak Cameron right had

972
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: more progressive female characters than most, but he does kind

973
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: of he's still a man, and he's still kind of

974
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: uses the same I feel like quote unquote cheat codes

975
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: to give his female characters dimension in multiple movies and

976
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: Terminator to an aliens. I feel like he makes a

977
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,520
Speaker 1: very similar choice with Ripley as he does with Sarah Connor,

978
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: where it's she you know, these are both very capable

979
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:05,400
Speaker 1: and motivated action heroes, but they're motivated by mommy, and

980
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:09,240
Speaker 1: he has difficulty it would appear, I mean, he doesn't Entitanic,

981
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: but he has difficulties seeing past motherhood in this period

982
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 1: of movies as a conceivable motivated He can't like think

983
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: of another conceivable motivation for a woman, which is annoying.

984
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 1: And in this one too, and in T two, there's

985
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 1: a few different moments for Sarah Connor. You know, there's

986
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: like that speech where she says, um, oh, you know

987
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to bring up, where she's basically this thing,

988
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: this machine, was the only thing that measured up. And

989
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 1: she's talking about how she you know, she's been subtly

990
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: scouting for a father for Greg Greg, and you know

991
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: that just sort of doubles down on the like nuclear

992
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 1: family trope and like everyone needs a mother and a father,

993
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: which we know is not true. And it's not like

994
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: it's a bad thing for her to want more support

995
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: in parenting. But it's just such a straight forward kind

996
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 1: of underthought. I feel like conclusion of like, well, of

997
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:09,200
Speaker 1: course she has to find a father for her son. Yeah,

998
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: I also this is maybe a reach, but also like

999
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 1: that bothered me because yeah, she says something like, of

1000
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: all the would be fathers, like this machine is the

1001
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: only thing that could measure up because it would never

1002
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: leave him or get drunk and hit him or shout

1003
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: at him or say he was too busy for him.

1004
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: But like, the other part of this terminator character is

1005
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: that like he doesn't understand human emotion and like it's

1006
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: just like completely avoid of likeial vulnerability and as someone

1007
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 1: who grew up with a father who is incapable of

1008
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: emotional intimacy or vulnerability. And yes, because I've estranged myself

1009
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 1: from my dad for that reason. So I feel like

1010
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,280
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor being like, yeah, daddy, he just needs to

1011
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: be around, and it's like, well, that's not good enough.

1012
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: So I feel like it's like letting father's off the

1013
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 1: hook as long as they're just around, and it's like, no,

1014
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: there's more to it than that. Yeah, it's weird. It's

1015
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: kind of complicated too, because it's not like Sarah Connor is.

1016
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so so something that I think is

1017
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: very interesting. I guess the sort of crosses over T

1018
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: two becomes more of this goofy father son relationship than

1019
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 1: I was expecting it too. That's one thing I feel

1020
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: like that takes up way more real real estate in

1021
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,240
Speaker 1: the movie than it needs to. And it again implies

1022
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: that every kid needs a mother and a father, and like,

1023
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, good Terminator becomes daddy and you're like, I

1024
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: get like, sure, I guess, you know, and and I

1025
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: do like that John Grigg calling what you will um

1026
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 1: he has an arc of becoming more emotionally intelligent, more sensitive,

1027
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 1: more empathetic. I feel like through the movie where you

1028
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: start out and he you know, he's in foster care.

1029
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,400
Speaker 1: His mother is in a psychiatric word and he, you know,

1030
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: says that you know, he doesn't believe what she's saying,

1031
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:59,920
Speaker 1: and she you know, he doesn't trust what she said

1032
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: as and he's like better off without her. All this stuff,

1033
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, which we don't get a lot of good

1034
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 1: examples of portrayals of younger boys, especially like preteen boys.

1035
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 1: It's like a you know, tentative time for anyone. So

1036
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 1: to cease. You know, his arc be learning to trust

1037
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:22,080
Speaker 1: and believe women is really cool, and so that's great.

1038
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: The father's son's stuff, it's just like, okay, you know,

1039
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: I guess it's kind of feels like a different movie

1040
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: in some ways, but well, I do also like that

1041
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 1: part of his arc is him teaching his new daddy.

1042
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: He's like teaching him like emotional intelligence and like empathy

1043
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: a little. He's like, you can't kill people. Like also

1044
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: like we have feelings, people hurt, people cry, we're afraid,

1045
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 1: like he tells. He basically tells, as you pointed out, Jamie,

1046
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 1: that he tells the terminator to smile more he does.

1047
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: That's I think that that's a bonus scene. But it's yeah,

1048
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: I think that might be from the director's cup. But

1049
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't scene where he's like you should smile and

1050
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: then he's like how do I smile? I was like, oh,

1051
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: this is uh, It's like, this is not trying to

1052
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: do this. What's kind of funny that it did? It

1053
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: is cool? Yeah, where and like the younger boy is

1054
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:15,800
Speaker 1: encouraging the older man to be emotionally intelligent and consider

1055
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: other people and their motivations and their lives and you know,

1056
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: literally their lives, giving them alive. That's lovely, But going

1057
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:26,080
Speaker 1: back to his motivation and believing his mom, that was

1058
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: like what I thought was one of the more compelling

1059
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:32,040
Speaker 1: elements of Sarah Connor's character in the second one is

1060
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,480
Speaker 1: we start from this point of like it feels like

1061
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: weirdly like pretty modern of she is stuck in this

1062
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: psychiatric ward because people don't believe what she's saying. She

1063
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:49,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have enough evidence of what she's saying for people

1064
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: to believe it, and similar to how they treated Kyle

1065
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: in the first movie, law enforcement thinks it's easier to

1066
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: just kind of lock her up and um tell her

1067
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: that she is you know, her mind isn't right, and

1068
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: she sticks to her truth until what I think is

1069
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: kind of like a devastating sad scene where we see

1070
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,960
Speaker 1: there's that like really great Linda Hamilton's moment where we

1071
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,920
Speaker 1: see a clip of her from like when she first

1072
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: got there, um screaming like it happened, it happened, which

1073
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: you were just like a fuck, and then we flashed

1074
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: forward to her, however long later, saying to a medical professional,

1075
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: I mean the same one from the first movie. Dr

1076
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: Silberman saying even though we know she doesn't think this

1077
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: taking it back and being like I was wrong. The

1078
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: thing I know is the truth is actually not the truth.

1079
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: Now can I see my son? That I thought was

1080
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: like one of the most emotionally compelling parts of both

1081
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: movies is like she has to take back her truth

1082
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: in order to survive. And like I just I thought

1083
01:03:55,720 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: that was like a felt very contemporary, and you sort

1084
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: of see her dealing with even though it's not explicitly stated,

1085
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: but it's you know, like a post traumatic stress narrative

1086
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: with the dreams that she's having and when she's first

1087
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: confronted with Arnold Schwarzenegger's face again, and just like, I

1088
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: don't know, it's like you see her sometimes act a

1089
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: little bit harshly or a little bit abruptly, but it

1090
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: is all grounded in this like, well, she's been through

1091
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: so fucking much, she's been so disbelieved even by her

1092
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: own son, and just like kind of watching her go

1093
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: on that journey of first of all her son learning

1094
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: and accepting what was the truth the whole time, and

1095
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: just her like navigating the like PTSD of what happens

1096
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: to her in the first movie and in the events

1097
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: in between it thought was like really compelling, Yeah, for sure,

1098
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: and then the component of like she doesn't have the

1099
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:59,960
Speaker 1: evidence to support her truth because a fucking corporation stolen

1100
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: it is now being used as research to develop the

1101
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: technology that we'll later kill everybody. Um yeah, I thought

1102
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: that that scene was super effective where she's like, it

1103
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: makes it seem like she's walking back what she actually believes.

1104
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: But she's only doing that because she's so smart. If

1105
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: she says, oh no, I'm feeling better now, I don't

1106
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 1: believe this anymore. I made all that stuff up. There's

1107
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: no evidence because there is no evidence, like there would

1108
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: be evidence if you know, I had crushed that terminator.

1109
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:30,479
Speaker 1: So she's walking it back, but only because she's trying

1110
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 1: to trick the psychologist into getting putting the minimum security.

1111
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: I thought it was super effective and I totally agree. Cool. Oh,

1112
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: I thought was good. One thing that this is. I mean,

1113
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: I guess this might be another example of it being

1114
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: well done, even though it's like frustrating, the reality of

1115
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 1: the situation is, you know, even though she does, her

1116
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: son ends up believing her and Dyson ends up believing her,

1117
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: it's only because she has the evidence all of a sudden.

1118
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: It's never that or like, you know what, I should

1119
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,400
Speaker 1: have taken seriously what you were saying. There was no

1120
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: reason not to. I believe you. It's only when she

1121
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: has the flesh and robot evidence of a terminator and

1122
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: she can literally peel someone's arm down, like you know.

1123
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: It's like Greg only truly believes her once he's met

1124
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: a terminator himself, and Dyson only truly believes her when

1125
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: Arnold Schorgenseninger removes his hand. And so it's which I

1126
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: think is unfortunately kind of a realistic thing in terms

1127
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: of like the circumstances under which people believe women, is

1128
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: no one really believes her until she does have the

1129
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:43,240
Speaker 1: heart evidence, just like in the context of believing women,

1130
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: which does seem to be like something that was ahead

1131
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: of its time in like demanding that. It does feel

1132
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: unfortunately kind of on point that the two people who

1133
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 1: end up believing her, and I guess you would include

1134
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: um Dyson's family and this as well, even though they

1135
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 1: don't have very large roles. They don't believe it until

1136
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: until they see it. Yeah, for sure. So another very

1137
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 1: cathartic moment for me in the movie is when Dr

1138
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: Silberman sees the bad terminator coming through the gate in

1139
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: a way that only a like liquid metal robot would

1140
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: be able to do, and so he sees it, and

1141
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 1: you know, he's watching this whole scene unfold where you

1142
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:28,160
Speaker 1: know this other terminator is there, and then his mouth

1143
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: drops a gape because he's like, oh fuck, she was

1144
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: telling you the whole time, like yes, fucking believe women.

1145
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 1: And there's like a similar theme explored in Aliens from

1146
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: at the beginning of that movie is a very similar

1147
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: like I swear to God this is happening, and then

1148
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:54,240
Speaker 1: no one blazes her until so another Mr Jim he

1149
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: is effectively explored here, I agree to just go back

1150
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 1: to that hospital. Seen the first time I saw that

1151
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 1: scene where she is escaping from the hospital, I just

1152
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: remember feeling so empowered and like energized by it, Like

1153
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: I was like, you know this team girls, like fuck, yes,

1154
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,599
Speaker 1: go Sarah because it's so cool. Around the same time

1155
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: in the movie, John is telling Arnold he was like,

1156
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 1: we gotta go get my mom, Like we gotta go

1157
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: rescue her. I order you to do this, like even

1158
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 1: though it's dangerous and maybe the other terminator will be there,

1159
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: like we have to go save her, So like it's

1160
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: set up in a way that's like maybe they're going

1161
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: to have to like literally go in and break her out,

1162
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 1: but she's already basically broken herself out, which I love

1163
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:43,920
Speaker 1: the thought that she doesn't have to be rescued, um,

1164
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,559
Speaker 1: but could you get the feeling that if they hadn't

1165
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 1: showed up she would get out anyways? Yes, she was

1166
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,680
Speaker 1: like well on her way out and just kind of

1167
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: I just want to do like a little beat by

1168
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 1: beat breakdown of this because I just love it so

1169
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: much where she is putting on this facade of tending

1170
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: to be just so drugged up that she's basically not cognizant,

1171
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 1: And she very subtly steals a little paper clip and

1172
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:10,679
Speaker 1: hides it in her mouth, and then after she's been

1173
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: locked up in her restraints in her room, she like

1174
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: spits out the paper clip, uses it to unlock the

1175
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 1: restraints and then the door. Then she has like broken

1176
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:23,479
Speaker 1: off the handle of a broom and she uses that

1177
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: to beat the ship out of the guy who has

1178
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 1: been horrible to her, who has beaten her and ligged

1179
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: her face electrocuted her. So she breaks his face and

1180
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 1: then drags him and locks him in a closet, takes

1181
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:41,559
Speaker 1: his nightstick, takes the psychologist hostage, you know, with the

1182
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: whole like drain of like liquid drain cleaner thingking brutal. Yes,

1183
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: I loved it. And then just like that whole sequence

1184
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: where she's like calling the shots and doing whatever it

1185
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 1: takes to get out of there. Yeah, I was just like, oh, man,

1186
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,280
Speaker 1: like so cool. Yeah, think, I mean that whole scene

1187
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: is so exciting and cool and also like completely like

1188
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: there's no Mary Sue element to it because you know

1189
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,719
Speaker 1: that she's been planning this for so long and she's

1190
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,639
Speaker 1: been like bulking up and very solitary confinement, like she

1191
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 1: has developed every single skill she needs to pull off

1192
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: this fucking incredible sequence. It's so cool, right because it's

1193
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: like it's a bunch of different things. It's us seeing

1194
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: a woman be like tough and smart and tactical and

1195
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,680
Speaker 1: just like straight up kick ass in a way that

1196
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 1: is not sexualized because in a lot of like action

1197
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:40,679
Speaker 1: franchises that do feature women who are like kicking ass,

1198
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,480
Speaker 1: like Vagina, it's the it's the pussy slam that we see,

1199
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: but it's it's we don't see anything like that with

1200
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:51,719
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor. It's us seeing her escape from this wrongful

1201
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:56,799
Speaker 1: imprisonment because she hasn't been believed and she's basically saying

1202
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 1: like just a giant fuck you to all the people

1203
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: who have not leaved her for all these years, which

1204
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 1: is crazy cathartic. It's so cool, it's so cool, and

1205
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 1: it's just it was such an empowering, awesome scene too,

1206
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,000
Speaker 1: and I love it. Just Yeah, every time I see

1207
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:14,759
Speaker 1: this movie, I'm always just like, yes, and we don't

1208
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,760
Speaker 1: see her fall into the women are only allowed to

1209
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: use household items as weapons here, Sarah Sarah, I mean

1210
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 1: she she uses what's around in the hospital, but I

1211
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 1: feel like that makes perfect sense, and she but then

1212
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: she takes the nights the rest of the movie, right, right,

1213
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: and so like that. I mean, it truly is just

1214
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: like she's being treated like an action hero is treated,

1215
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 1: which is great. So just I guess to kind of

1216
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: close on the mommy stuff because I feel like we've

1217
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,439
Speaker 1: been alluding to it quite a bit and it takes

1218
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:52,479
Speaker 1: a larger role in the second movie. Again, it's kind

1219
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 1: of necessary to the narrative because the kid exists now. Um,

1220
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:00,880
Speaker 1: but there is that moment that happens right after she

1221
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: it seems like she's going to kill Dyson, and then

1222
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:05,639
Speaker 1: she's like, j K, I mommy, I can't kill you.

1223
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: Slash a lot of stuff. She's human. They're like sitting

1224
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: in Dyson's kitchen with his whole with it, with his wife,

1225
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: uh and him and good terminator and John. She's kind

1226
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:20,799
Speaker 1: of railing on Dyson for trying to build another terminator.

1227
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: She says, how are you supposed to know? Fucking men

1228
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: like you built the hydrogen bomb, men like you thought

1229
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 1: it up. You think you're so creative. You don't know

1230
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: what it's like to really create something, to create a life,

1231
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 1: to feel it growing inside you. All you know how

1232
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: to do is death in destruction. And then Greg cuts

1233
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: her off and it's like mom, yucky um, which I

1234
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, I think that there's a lot

1235
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,280
Speaker 1: of different reads of that line. There's a read of

1236
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 1: it I think that is like very empowering and really

1237
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 1: hitting the nail of the like what James Cameron is

1238
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: trying to do with her character right on the head

1239
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 1: of like women with a narrow definition of what a

1240
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 1: woman is, but like women can be badass and like

1241
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: they give life. That's so cool, Like there's there's a

1242
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 1: read of it that's very empowering, and I think that

1243
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:15,520
Speaker 1: there's a read of it that's like a little reductive

1244
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: with with time and you know, just progress. I don't

1245
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:22,719
Speaker 1: think it was intended to be reductive at all, but

1246
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, that's the only way she can

1247
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 1: define a woman's power is through mommy stuff, and so

1248
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 1: that you know, there are moments and and for its time. Again,

1249
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 1: it's like that you do not get a better female

1250
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 1: action hero than Sarah Connor. But there are times where

1251
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: I feel like it leans a little too heavy on

1252
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:47,839
Speaker 1: the crutch of like and her motivation is still woman's stuff,

1253
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, right, Definitely, I definitely agree with that. But

1254
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: on the other hand, I can also see women who

1255
01:13:56,080 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 1: are mothers also feeling very empowered by Sarah Connor just

1256
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: by the mere fact of, like, she's a mom and

1257
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: she's also a complete badass. Because mother characters in movies

1258
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: are often depicted as like being just like naggy shrewy

1259
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 1: types of characters or just like, you know, just a

1260
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,599
Speaker 1: typical kind of mom so to see, which is literally

1261
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: how Dyson's wife is portrayed. True. So to see, like

1262
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: a mother character who is also extremely tough. I think

1263
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: is like representation that we don't get to see that often. Again,

1264
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: I think it goes back to that thing we were

1265
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: talking about before, where it's like, we have nothing against

1266
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: mothers and motherhood, but for that to be the only

1267
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,920
Speaker 1: option of a motivation is where I find it to

1268
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 1: be possibly reductive. Is like there's no even in kill Bill,

1269
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: a movie that is allegedly about revenge, it's not really

1270
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:00,840
Speaker 1: just about revenge. It's also about motherhood. So it just

1271
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that there are more options now

1272
01:15:03,439 --> 01:15:06,240
Speaker 1: and that this movie was important and pushing stuff forward,

1273
01:15:06,360 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: but there yeah, I I do still feel like that

1274
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:12,679
Speaker 1: read of it, like there's a like I was rolling

1275
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 1: my eyes just a little bit for sure. That all

1276
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 1: being said in terms of like Sarah's badassery and like

1277
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: all the cool things we get to see her do,

1278
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: and to me, the very drastic, stark change between her

1279
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: character in the first movie and the second movie is

1280
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: not only like cool to see this more empowered and

1281
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 1: badassed version of this character, but it also like tracks

1282
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: very well for what the story requires of it. So

1283
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,519
Speaker 1: like I so it makes sense for the story, which

1284
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: as a screenwriter, um, I don't like to mention it,

1285
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: but like that I very much appreciated. Um. However, there

1286
01:15:55,640 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: was something that I couldn't help. But notice if we're

1287
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:02,679
Speaker 1: kind of comparing some of the opening sequences of Terminator

1288
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: One and Terminator Too, where in Terminator one, the terminators

1289
01:16:09,120 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: in hot pursuit and Sarah needs Kyle Reyes to save

1290
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,120
Speaker 1: her and get her away from the terminator and all

1291
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 1: this stuff. But in T two, John, a k greg

1292
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: who is a child, but a male child, is able

1293
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:27,719
Speaker 1: to get away on his own for a little while

1294
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 1: his motorbike. So I'm like, okay, well she also had

1295
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: a mope. She did. But at the same time, John

1296
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: has been raised by his mother. His mom but in

1297
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: the context of like she was always telling him, like,

1298
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 1: you're going to be a military leader, like you need

1299
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 1: to learn combat and weapons and engines and like all

1300
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:54,040
Speaker 1: this stuff. So he was more equipped than Sarah was

1301
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 1: to like, like he knew about terminators, like and he

1302
01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: probably was like, Oh, this thing that's coming to kill me,

1303
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: that's probably a terminator. I have to get away. But

1304
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:07,600
Speaker 1: it's still just the optics of like this child is

1305
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:11,759
Speaker 1: able to like escape this terminator, but a grown woman

1306
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:15,000
Speaker 1: needs all his help totally. I don't know. They both

1307
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: have mopeds. It's like, why is one more capable than

1308
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 1: the other. Should we talk about Dyson and his wife? Yes,

1309
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 1: as we already sort of touched on a little bit.

1310
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of his arc in the second movie,

1311
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: except for the very end. I don't think you needed

1312
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: to die. But I like there was more character written

1313
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 1: for him than I assumed there would be, honestly because

1314
01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,479
Speaker 1: he sort of set up as someone who Sarah Connor

1315
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,719
Speaker 1: would kill or that good Terminator would kill. But because

1316
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,080
Speaker 1: of the progress that those characters are already making, they

1317
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: don't kill him, and then we get to see progress

1318
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:52,679
Speaker 1: on his part of being like, I see what I've done,

1319
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: I see the error of and like the tunnel mindedness

1320
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: of what I was doing. How can I help? How

1321
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 1: can I reverse it? And so you know his arc

1322
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:05,240
Speaker 1: I liked, Yeah, that's always lovely, Um I do, I mean,

1323
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: it's worth mentioning. He has his wife, her name, she

1324
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,960
Speaker 1: is named as Teresa. That's all we know. That's all

1325
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: we know. She's a pretty much a tertiary character, so

1326
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,080
Speaker 1: I guess I mean she she didn't have to be,

1327
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: but that's how the movie does frame her. I think

1328
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,599
Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that he's one of the very

1329
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 1: few people of color in the movie franchise the franchise

1330
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:33,720
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, but the fact that he is

1331
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 1: like a tech genius, like a person of color and

1332
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,880
Speaker 1: stem was representation we were not getting very much of,

1333
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 1: especially in this era. UM, so that was pretty cool.

1334
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,320
Speaker 1: But yes, I don't like, still the only die the

1335
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: character we know the best in this movie that is

1336
01:18:51,520 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: killed off. Besides like the villain. Yeah, yeah, I feel

1337
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:58,480
Speaker 1: like that character could have been brought back in sequels

1338
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:01,599
Speaker 1: and like used his like tech genius brain to like

1339
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: help and stuff. Well there, Yeah, it was like, there's

1340
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 1: no reason in my head why he shouldn't have joined

1341
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 1: their team. It seems like that was what he was doing.

1342
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 1: I think he was killed twenty minutes later. Um, which

1343
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 1: again just like feeds into whether it was written intentionally

1344
01:19:16,160 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 1: that way or not, just feeds into some of the

1345
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:20,799
Speaker 1: horror movie trips you see pop up in these movies,

1346
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,479
Speaker 1: which is that the person of color always dies and

1347
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:28,280
Speaker 1: it's always the first to die. Um. Even though it's

1348
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:31,400
Speaker 1: for Diyson, it's pretty significantly into the movie. But he's

1349
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 1: he's the character we know best who dies and that sucks. Yes,

1350
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,160
Speaker 1: so I wish I mean, yeah, I wish we just

1351
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 1: Dyson Justice for Dyson. Damn it, I got, I got

1352
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:47,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of context, corner. Let's hear it for

1353
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,200
Speaker 1: this whole. For the for these two movies. We'll start

1354
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: with Linda Hamilton's because the most recent Terminator movie is

1355
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 1: the first one. She's returned four since Terminator two, and

1356
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 1: she had some thoughts and how Sarah was portrayed in

1357
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:04,720
Speaker 1: the first one as opposed to the second one. I

1358
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:06,720
Speaker 1: guess the first one she went into it. I mean,

1359
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 1: no one thought it was going to be a huge hit,

1360
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 1: the first one, and so she went into it just

1361
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 1: like it was a job. She described Sarah in the

1362
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:16,040
Speaker 1: first movie as quote so wholesome, my good puke unquote,

1363
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 1: and that she didn't feel particularly empowered by the character

1364
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:24,680
Speaker 1: until quote that transition from damsel in distress to all right,

1365
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,639
Speaker 1: she's got to pull everything she's got together to get

1366
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,960
Speaker 1: Kyle up for the on your feet soldier. And so

1367
01:20:31,280 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: she said she was generally unimpressed with the first Terminator

1368
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:38,599
Speaker 1: until she saw it and then was like, oh, there's something,

1369
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: there's something to this. And she also saw some metaphorical

1370
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:45,559
Speaker 1: importance to the sex scene in the first movie where

1371
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,560
Speaker 1: she's on top, which she felt was like a metaphor

1372
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: for um where that character is headed. So I thought

1373
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:56,240
Speaker 1: that was that was cool. She also in regards to

1374
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:59,560
Speaker 1: T two, there was I think kind of an interesting

1375
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 1: strange that you know, everyone can feel any number of

1376
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: ways about, but it's hair related. Um. So this is

1377
01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 1: from an interview with the Hollywood Reporter from like a

1378
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, So it goes like this. Cameron

1379
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 1: originally proposed that Hamilton's chop off her golden brown locks

1380
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: after Sarah's escape from an asylum. She argued successfully mean

1381
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 1: Lynda Hamilton's for a ponytail instead, because, as she puts it, quote,

1382
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 1: you don't have to look a guy to be strong unquote.

1383
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 1: For some reason, I won that argument, she recalls, it

1384
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 1: wasn't even a vanity thing. And then later on, when

1385
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,559
Speaker 1: she became this icon of strength and you know the

1386
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 1: legend of Sarah Connor, I realized that it's only because

1387
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 1: I didn't cut my hair that she became what she

1388
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:39,920
Speaker 1: did in the minds and hearts of the audience, that

1389
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 1: this was a picture of feminine strength. I would love

1390
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:44,639
Speaker 1: to say, oh, I was so ahead of my time,

1391
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:46,840
Speaker 1: but it really was just an instinct that it wasn't right.

1392
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: And then she goes on to roast Demi Moore's haircut

1393
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 1: in g I Jane. So I mean we, I mean,

1394
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: we know that the Baltic stwoman is in charge. This

1395
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:57,679
Speaker 1: is a rule that is held for three years now.

1396
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:02,520
Speaker 1: But I thought it was interesting that she wanted to

1397
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,439
Speaker 1: make that choice because I think in the case of

1398
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 1: some action movies written by men, that is a like

1399
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 1: a writing shorthand that is like to indicate, like I mean,

1400
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 1: and also it's like practical to get hair out of

1401
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,439
Speaker 1: the way. But um, I thought it was interesting that

1402
01:22:18,479 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 1: she like made a stand on her character, especially against

1403
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:27,520
Speaker 1: James Cameron, which gets us into Oh also, Linda Hamilton's

1404
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:30,719
Speaker 1: has done more activism for the bipolar community than most

1405
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 1: people have. Great, I mean, just to touch on a

1406
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 1: little bit more, Um, yeah, I think there was for

1407
01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 1: a while and even almost you know, even as recently

1408
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:44,000
Speaker 1: as like mad Max Fury Road. But like the shorthand

1409
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 1: for like a really strong badass female character is like

1410
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:49,400
Speaker 1: chop all her hair off or a shaver head kind

1411
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: of thing. And as someone who recently chopped off all

1412
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: my hair. You can't stop kidding people. Yeah, I mean

1413
01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: I see what she's saying. I think that's somewhat of

1414
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 1: a like, I don't know, Like, yes, I think it

1415
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 1: is important to see like maybe more traditionally feminine, like

1416
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 1: strong female protagonists in addition to seeing like like I

1417
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,520
Speaker 1: don't think like a woman who maybe presents as more masculine.

1418
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,160
Speaker 1: It's become a bit tropy. But I also don't think

1419
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with that either, So like, yeah, I

1420
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: don't know, of course I think that I think or

1421
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,559
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. I feel like what she is.

1422
01:23:27,680 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 1: I mean because partially the baldist woman in charge rule

1423
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:34,120
Speaker 1: comes from the trope of writers using it a lot

1424
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 1: that way exactly, But but there's also it's rooted in

1425
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,200
Speaker 1: some military reality, Like there's a lot of like it's

1426
01:23:41,200 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: based in some truth and some like silly like male

1427
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:46,240
Speaker 1: writers tend to do this a lot. But it's like now,

1428
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:48,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, it's I feel like it's

1429
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:51,360
Speaker 1: kind of neither here nor there um and like everyone

1430
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 1: should just be able to have their hair the way

1431
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:56,920
Speaker 1: they want it. Yeah, yeah, and when you know, gender

1432
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 1: is very fluid, Yeah, and it shouldn't be too suggest

1433
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 1: that like short hair can't be considered feminine like that

1434
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 1: also not true, but I you know, I thought it

1435
01:24:06,600 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 1: was worth mentioning. Get around to Jimmy Cameron. Jimmy Cam

1436
01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: legendarily horrible person to work with, specifically not like a.

1437
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,519
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends on how you look

1438
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: at it. He is a nightmare on set. I think

1439
01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:28,519
Speaker 1: he's very much an example of male director who can

1440
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: get away with fucking murder, doing things that female director

1441
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:36,600
Speaker 1: of any amount of experience would get fired and blacklisted

1442
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:39,720
Speaker 1: for doing. And uh, I would also apply that to

1443
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:43,640
Speaker 1: really any marginalized community where it is there is some

1444
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:47,080
Speaker 1: truth to like you only have so many shots, um,

1445
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: whereas white male directors with a with a specific style

1446
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,280
Speaker 1: can just fucking get away with murder. Some examples of

1447
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:55,680
Speaker 1: things he's done in ways he's been described. On the

1448
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: set of Avatar, he would take people's cell phones if

1449
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:00,160
Speaker 1: they were out, and he would nail gun them to

1450
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:04,560
Speaker 1: the wall. Um, let's see. Andrew Gumbel of The Independence

1451
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:08,280
Speaker 1: says Cameron is quote a nightmare to work with studios

1452
01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:11,200
Speaker 1: fear his habit of straying over schedules and over budget

1453
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 1: He's notorious on set for uncompromising and dictatorial manner, as

1454
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:20,679
Speaker 1: well as his flaming temper. Leonardo DiCaprio told Esquire magazine, quote,

1455
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 1: when somebody felt a different way on set, there was

1456
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:27,320
Speaker 1: a confrontation. Uh, and what is it like? It's putting

1457
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:31,760
Speaker 1: it lightly? Yeah, well, you know, Uh, Leonardo DiCaprio is

1458
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 1: not necessarily you know, you have to think that Leonardo DiCaprio,

1459
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 1: for the amount of time he spends around twenty three

1460
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:40,480
Speaker 1: year olds, would be more woke than he is. But um,

1461
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:44,600
Speaker 1: it's just not true. Speaking of their experiences on filming Titanic,

1462
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 1: Kate Winslett said that she admired Cameron but quote, there

1463
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 1: were times I was genuinely frightened of him. Unquote. He's

1464
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 1: just a notoriously scary guy. Linda Hamilton's also attested to this,

1465
01:25:56,080 --> 01:26:00,400
Speaker 1: where she was I think generally very like to his

1466
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 1: whims on set, and then the one time she asked

1467
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 1: to see playback of a scene she had just done,

1468
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 1: he screamed at her in front of everyone and they

1469
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 1: later got married, which she said was the biggest regret

1470
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:15,040
Speaker 1: of her life. So what can you do? Uh? And

1471
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:19,160
Speaker 1: then just a brief one more thing, as it pertains

1472
01:26:19,200 --> 01:26:23,120
Speaker 1: to Sarah Connor specifically. You may recall that James Cameron

1473
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:30,960
Speaker 1: made some stupid as comments when Wonder Woman came out,

1474
01:26:31,680 --> 01:26:36,839
Speaker 1: and he just really couldn't take someone else making movies

1475
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:40,559
Speaker 1: about women, and he was very reductive, and the way

1476
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:43,719
Speaker 1: he described it, he said that gal Gadot was too

1477
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: beautiful and that she was objectified and that she was

1478
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 1: you know, and and you can view that however you want.

1479
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 1: The point is that James Caramon is like, my female

1480
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:56,519
Speaker 1: protagonist is the best female protagonist, which means that he

1481
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:00,559
Speaker 1: only thinks female protagonists can be one way, and there's

1482
01:27:00,640 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: only one way to be a female action hero. It's

1483
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:08,080
Speaker 1: pitting women against each other for no reason. It's egotistical,

1484
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: it's annoying, and also it's incorrect because he says in

1485
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: twenty sevent TV says quote, Sarah Connor was not a

1486
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: beauty icon. She was strong, she was troubled, she was

1487
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the

1488
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 1: audience through pure grit. Well, there may be some truth

1489
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:24,920
Speaker 1: to that if you look back at the way that

1490
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: James Cameron describes Sarah Connor and his first screenplay. That's

1491
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:33,479
Speaker 1: not true, It's just he's just like a he's just

1492
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:37,240
Speaker 1: kind of a stupid ass. Yes, I agree. I have

1493
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit more specifics on

1494
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 1: this part of the context corner when he made those

1495
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 1: comments originally about Wonder Woman, and he also said that well,

1496
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:50,599
Speaker 1: because this character was so sexualized, therefore the film is

1497
01:27:50,640 --> 01:27:54,640
Speaker 1: not groundbreaking exactly right, like okay? And then Patty Jenkins,

1498
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: the director of Wonder Woman, responded by saying, James Cameron's

1499
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:02,760
Speaker 1: inability to understand what Wonder Woman is or stands for

1500
01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 1: to women all over the world is unsurprising to me.

1501
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 1: Though he is a great filmmaker, he is not a woman.

1502
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: Strong women are great. His praise of my film Monster

1503
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: and our portrayal of a strong yet damaged woman was

1504
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 1: so appreciated. But if women have to always be hard,

1505
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: tough and troubled to be strong, then we aren't free

1506
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:25,160
Speaker 1: to be multidimensional or celebrate an icon of women everywhere

1507
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 1: because she is attractive and loving, then we haven't come

1508
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:31,759
Speaker 1: very far, have we. I believe women can and should

1509
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,040
Speaker 1: be everything, just like male lead characters should be, and

1510
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: there's no right and wrong kind of powerful woman in

1511
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 1: the massive female audience who made the film a hit

1512
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:43,759
Speaker 1: it is can surely choose and judge their own icons

1513
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 1: of progress. And then James Cameron doubled down on his

1514
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:53,320
Speaker 1: previous and said about gal Gado all the like, but whatever,

1515
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:57,160
Speaker 1: she was miss Israel and she's dropped dead gorgeous and

1516
01:28:57,200 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: that's not great and ground uh. And then he said

1517
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:05,599
Speaker 1: added about Sarah Connor in Terminator to saying she wasn't

1518
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,599
Speaker 1: there to be liked or ogled, but she was central

1519
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,040
Speaker 1: and the audience loved her by the end of the film.

1520
01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:14,519
Speaker 1: And it's just like, you don't get it. I like

1521
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 1: Patty Jenkins is responsible, Like she shouldn't have even had

1522
01:29:17,479 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: to say anything. It's just like it's just another example

1523
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:24,280
Speaker 1: of like he made it about him for no reason.

1524
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 1: No one asked him too, it was in response to

1525
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:28,680
Speaker 1: nothing like. It was just like he just made it

1526
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: about him because that's what he's like. Yeah, And it

1527
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 1: just sucks that he is like one of the very

1528
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,519
Speaker 1: influential directors in Hollywood who is a straight white man

1529
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:43,559
Speaker 1: who is trying to, it seems, attempt to include women

1530
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:47,559
Speaker 1: in meaningful ways in his stories, but he still has

1531
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 1: a very narrow view of what a like strong female

1532
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:55,920
Speaker 1: protagonist should and could be. I hope that he has,

1533
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:59,000
Speaker 1: you know, demonstrates I'm not I'm not going to set

1534
01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:02,920
Speaker 1: my watch by it. It like that was incredibly recent

1535
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:07,040
Speaker 1: and completely fucking toned up into double down. It's just

1536
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 1: like it's embarrassing for him, and um, he should be ashamed. Indeed,

1537
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:14,280
Speaker 1: the last thing I had to say in in this

1538
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:18,200
Speaker 1: context corner is that it appears that the Sarah Connor

1539
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:22,599
Speaker 1: character is very much based on James Cameron's mother. Did

1540
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,719
Speaker 1: you know, well, we didn't know for today that James

1541
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 1: Cameron is Canadian. I suspect we didn't know this because

1542
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:32,200
Speaker 1: he's notoriously mean, so no one would be like, he's

1543
01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:37,040
Speaker 1: probably Canadian, but he is Canadian and in a profile

1544
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:41,280
Speaker 1: of him, and this is I wouldn't recommend this article.

1545
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 1: It was in Vanity Fair in two thousand nine when

1546
01:30:43,400 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 1: Avatar was coming out and was called James Cameron secret

1547
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: feminished and it is just praising woke icon James Cameron,

1548
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 1: like who cares? But the interesting passage concerning his mother

1549
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:59,280
Speaker 1: goes as follows, quote Cameron's mother surely is Sarah Connor

1550
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 1: trapped in the body be of a Canadian grandmother. I

1551
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:05,160
Speaker 1: don't know why Jim thinks I'm so reliant. Surely shrugged

1552
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 1: to me, professing bewilderment that she might be the inspiration

1553
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:11,479
Speaker 1: for the gutty maternal characters and the Terminator in Aliens. Well,

1554
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,760
Speaker 1: I can take a guess. While a mother with three

1555
01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:16,240
Speaker 1: kids under age eight, James was the oldest of what

1556
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 1: would ultimately be five, Surely joined the Canadian Women's Army Corps,

1557
01:31:20,479 --> 01:31:23,519
Speaker 1: happily trooping off on weekends and fatigues and combat boots

1558
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:26,479
Speaker 1: to assemble a rifle while blindfolded and marked through field

1559
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 1: in the pouring rain. At a time and place, Ontario, Canada,

1560
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:32,559
Speaker 1: in the fifties and sixties when most women set aside

1561
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:35,759
Speaker 1: their personal pursuits for the sole ambition of homemaking. Surely

1562
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:39,080
Speaker 1: was a painter and attended courses in subjects like geology

1563
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:42,759
Speaker 1: and astronomy. Often she brought along her oldest son. So

1564
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 1: I think that that is that's lovely. So that makes

1565
01:31:47,720 --> 01:31:53,200
Speaker 1: the first Terminator movie even more confusing, because again it

1566
01:31:53,280 --> 01:31:56,719
Speaker 1: seems like he couldn't envision a world where a woman

1567
01:31:56,760 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 1: would be important because she's the one who has military

1568
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:06,439
Speaker 1: training and combat training in leadership tendencies. But his mother

1569
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 1: was in the military. Right at least the course corrects

1570
01:32:11,120 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 1: on the second one. I don't know, I mean, but

1571
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:19,680
Speaker 1: I was well speaking of course, correcting what may I share? Um?

1572
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:24,120
Speaker 1: So these are spoilers for Terminator Dark Fate, So if

1573
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:28,400
Speaker 1: you would like to avoid these spoilers, skip ahead about

1574
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:31,200
Speaker 1: a minute and a half. Okay, I did see Terminator

1575
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:35,799
Speaker 1: Dark Fate, Bragg and I will say that that movie

1576
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:39,479
Speaker 1: corrects the idea that women are only important because they

1577
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:43,400
Speaker 1: are mothers of the important men, because in this movie,

1578
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:48,400
Speaker 1: the character being protected is Danny, a Latino X woman.

1579
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 1: She is the person who ends up becoming the leader

1580
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 1: of the human resistance against the machines. Also, the protector

1581
01:32:57,160 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: this time is also a woman. She is a an

1582
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 1: enhanced human named Grace, played by Mackenzie Davis and then

1583
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 1: Sarah Connor Limbda Hamilton's is back, and so you see

1584
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 1: a bunch of scenes with Danny, Grace, and Sarah all

1585
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: working together and getting stuff done. Now, Grace and Sarah

1586
01:33:19,080 --> 01:33:21,840
Speaker 1: seemed to hate each other for what feels like kind

1587
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 1: of no reason. So that's a little whatever, But the

1588
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 1: movie does, and the female characters aren't necessarily well developed.

1589
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 1: And I just had some other issues with the movie,

1590
01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: but the movie does pass the BacT to test a bunch.

1591
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:40,000
Speaker 1: So there's just some of the some of the mistakes

1592
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:43,200
Speaker 1: that I think the earlier Terminator films did. The Dark

1593
01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:48,479
Speaker 1: Fate attempts to correct the day. At the end of

1594
01:33:48,479 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 1: the day, I just want women to write the movie

1595
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:58,759
Speaker 1: and for people to stop rebooting franchises. Yes, because nothing's

1596
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:02,240
Speaker 1: ever going to be as good as Terminator. To exactly

1597
01:34:02,360 --> 01:34:08,439
Speaker 1: stop trying and let's all move on with our lives. Okay,

1598
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: I think that's all I had. That's all I had.

1599
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: Do these movies pass the Bechdel test, the first one,

1600
01:34:15,439 --> 01:34:17,439
Speaker 1: I feel like I think the first one might. It

1601
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:22,160
Speaker 1: might because we've got Sarah talking to Ginger, her roommate,

1602
01:34:22,520 --> 01:34:24,919
Speaker 1: and we have Sarah talking to I believe the characters

1603
01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:31,679
Speaker 1: named in the credit as Nancy, who's the other waitress. Yes,

1604
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:34,120
Speaker 1: I don't think we learned her name in the in

1605
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 1: the movie, but that other So the server at the

1606
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:41,960
Speaker 1: diner tells Sarah about the news broadcast about another Sarah

1607
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:46,679
Speaker 1: Connor getting murdered. Um, does Sarah respond, I can't totally remember.

1608
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:50,040
Speaker 1: Sarah does respond. It's kind of I mean, it's kind

1609
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 1: of those throwaway. I mean, it's kind of too throwaway

1610
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 1: to account. But they say hi to each other at

1611
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:58,360
Speaker 1: one point, you're late HIU. Then there's that moment where

1612
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: Sarah kind of responds, I mean, I don't know if

1613
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:05,320
Speaker 1: it's necessarily with words, because it's like, oh, you know,

1614
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 1: like one of those it's like they're talking to each other.

1615
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:09,920
Speaker 1: It's about the murder of other women. But you know

1616
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:12,920
Speaker 1: if maybe it maybe it counts. I don't know, Yeah,

1617
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:15,679
Speaker 1: that one, I feel like I wouldn't necessarily count those

1618
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:18,240
Speaker 1: because we don't ever learn that character's name, I think.

1619
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:21,400
Speaker 1: But then Sarah and Ginger do talk a little bit,

1620
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:26,200
Speaker 1: but these conversations go something like Ginger says they're looking

1621
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:28,280
Speaker 1: at each other in the mirror, and Ginger says, like

1622
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 1: better than the mortal man deserves. And then Sarah kisses

1623
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:35,599
Speaker 1: Ginger on the cheek, and then later she's like, Ginger,

1624
01:35:35,680 --> 01:35:39,960
Speaker 1: have you seen Pugsley, my feminist icon iguana man? But

1625
01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:44,320
Speaker 1: he's a Pug's a male iguana. So responds and says,

1626
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,000
Speaker 1: not recently, did you check the messages? And then they

1627
01:35:47,040 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 1: talk about the guy who cancels on Sarah so that

1628
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 1: doesn't pass us, And then she says, I'm going to

1629
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:56,439
Speaker 1: a movie, kiddo, okay, Ginger says, and then Sara says,

1630
01:35:56,479 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: you and Matt have a good time. But we have

1631
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 1: two lines there, so maybe I don't know. If it

1632
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 1: does pass, it's it's the skin of its teeth. And

1633
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: then what about what you have for two? I think no,

1634
01:36:10,360 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 1: I think two does not pass. There was one moment

1635
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:15,600
Speaker 1: where I thought Teresa and Sarah we're almost talking, but

1636
01:36:15,640 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 1: then it turns out Teresa was talking to her husband, right,

1637
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:22,799
Speaker 1: although Sarah does say to Teresa, get down on the floor, bitch,

1638
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:28,800
Speaker 1: fucking down now, and Teresa screams, so does it pass? Good? Um,

1639
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 1: so you know it doesn't. I don't know which is

1640
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:36,960
Speaker 1: I think again, like you almost and not to say that.

1641
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 1: You know, Sarah Connor is characterized in the same way

1642
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:41,960
Speaker 1: that Princess Leah is, but just that tendency of like

1643
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:45,479
Speaker 1: there shall be no more than one strong woman in

1644
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:49,040
Speaker 1: any movie, like that rule kind of holds in at

1645
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:52,160
Speaker 1: least these two movies. Even though they the strong female

1646
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:55,080
Speaker 1: character you get is great, there's no women for her

1647
01:36:55,080 --> 01:37:01,080
Speaker 1: to talk to. New So that's that I thing. What

1648
01:37:01,080 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 1: would you rate the movie? The two? I feel like

1649
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:09,080
Speaker 1: we got to split it, right. Yeah, they're very different

1650
01:37:09,080 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 1: than the way they treat their female protagonists. I think, yes,

1651
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:17,160
Speaker 1: I agree. Okay, So for Terminator one, I think I

1652
01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:20,280
Speaker 1: would only give this like a one and a half

1653
01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 1: or two maybe just because of the whole like, you're

1654
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:28,480
Speaker 1: only important because you're a mummy of a man who's important,

1655
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: and like she's not characterized enough. We don't know anything

1656
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 1: about her aspirations, she's not equipped with any skills that

1657
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:40,719
Speaker 1: make her able to contribute to her own safety or

1658
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:45,760
Speaker 1: of like getting away from the Terminator, different stuff like that. See,

1659
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 1: I feel like it's only like a one and a

1660
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 1: half kind of thing. The Terminator too, I would double

1661
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:58,360
Speaker 1: it and give it a three because it's still just

1662
01:37:58,479 --> 01:38:02,760
Speaker 1: by the nature of you know, sequels and storytelling. The

1663
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 1: different hang ups I have about the first movie just

1664
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:09,880
Speaker 1: carry over into Terminator to you know, the whole like

1665
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 1: very strong emphasis on but I'm a mummy and that's

1666
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:18,880
Speaker 1: my major motivation and stuff like that. But because she

1667
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:23,640
Speaker 1: we see, you know, all of her general badassery, I

1668
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna go a one and a half and

1669
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:30,400
Speaker 1: then a three respectively. I'm gonna go a one and four.

1670
01:38:30,680 --> 01:38:35,360
Speaker 1: I think one I really don't have any love at

1671
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:38,000
Speaker 1: all for the first Terminator movie. I think that her

1672
01:38:38,120 --> 01:38:42,439
Speaker 1: character is like severely underwritten. And then I like the

1673
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:45,719
Speaker 1: growth she shows in the last act of the movie,

1674
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:48,960
Speaker 1: but I don't feel that it's more than uh nipples

1675
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:52,439
Speaker 1: worth of growth. Um. I don't like that she's told

1676
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:54,640
Speaker 1: the person she's going to become, she can't name her

1677
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:59,120
Speaker 1: own child, she's defined by her motherhood, etcetera, etcetera. I

1678
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:01,559
Speaker 1: you know, and again, I know that people are going

1679
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:02,920
Speaker 1: to roast me, but I'm just like, I'm just not

1680
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,920
Speaker 1: attached to these movies. One nipple for the first one, uh,

1681
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:07,840
Speaker 1: and then I think I would go I I again,

1682
01:39:07,960 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 1: like you were saying, I have similar issues with her

1683
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:14,720
Speaker 1: being defined by her motherhood in the second movie. But

1684
01:39:14,760 --> 01:39:17,920
Speaker 1: I think just kind of based off of how it

1685
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 1: does seem like, especially in this gigantically popular because the

1686
01:39:22,439 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 1: second movie did even better than the first movie. It

1687
01:39:25,320 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 1: made over five billion dollars and it was a very

1688
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,920
Speaker 1: expensive you were saying, it was the most expensive movie

1689
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 1: made to date and it's still doubled its budget over

1690
01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 1: And I think seeing a character like Sarah Connor kick

1691
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 1: Ass have those moments of Catharsis have the idea of

1692
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:49,200
Speaker 1: believing women effectively tackled in a huge, mainstream blockbuster movie.

1693
01:39:50,120 --> 01:39:53,559
Speaker 1: Is yeah, I mean first time, that's like huge, And

1694
01:39:53,720 --> 01:39:56,160
Speaker 1: like I wish that there was less defining her by

1695
01:39:56,200 --> 01:39:59,080
Speaker 1: her motherhood. I wish that there was less I need

1696
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:03,080
Speaker 1: to find a father for my boy. But I just yeah,

1697
01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:06,400
Speaker 1: I think it's so It lets her be so much

1698
01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:10,360
Speaker 1: more and and definitely paved the way for more effectively

1699
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 1: written female action heroes. It's gonna go one in four,

1700
01:40:17,439 --> 01:40:22,200
Speaker 1: no factions for Jamie Tenney. Well there you have the Folks,

1701
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 1: the Terminator one in two episode and our three year

1702
01:40:27,240 --> 01:40:33,160
Speaker 1: anniversary episode, so you know, happy three years once again, Jamie.

1703
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:38,479
Speaker 1: Thank you. Here's to five million. There's so many more

1704
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:43,240
Speaker 1: movies to do. Um. Well, hey Jamie, where can people

1705
01:40:43,320 --> 01:40:46,800
Speaker 1: follow you on the internet? Oh, you can follow me

1706
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 1: at Jamie We never do this, we don't still with

1707
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 1: our inniversion. We don't have a guest so our Time

1708
01:40:54,280 --> 01:40:57,760
Speaker 1: to Shine. Can follow me on Twitter at Jamie Loftest.

1709
01:40:57,800 --> 01:41:00,599
Speaker 1: Help you can follow me and it's rum at Jamie

1710
01:41:00,680 --> 01:41:03,639
Speaker 1: christ Superstar. By the time this has released, you listen

1711
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 1: to my podcast about being in Mensa for a year

1712
01:41:06,880 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: called my year in mensa. Uh, and that's I think.

1713
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:12,719
Speaker 1: But what do you have to say kit another plugcast?

1714
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 1: I sure do. It's called Sludge an American Healthcare Story.

1715
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:23,759
Speaker 1: Season one has wrapped because luckily I am now sludge free,

1716
01:41:23,960 --> 01:41:26,640
Speaker 1: but season two will be coming out sometime in the

1717
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:30,439
Speaker 1: new year, so check that out. You can follow me

1718
01:41:30,479 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram at Caitlin Durante. And as for

1719
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: our podcasts plugs, you can follow us on social media

1720
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:44,040
Speaker 1: at beecktel Cast. You can go to our Matreon our

1721
01:41:44,120 --> 01:41:48,040
Speaker 1: Patreon aka Matreon at patreon dot com, slash pecktel Cast.

1722
01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:50,240
Speaker 1: It's five dollars a month. It gets you to bonus

1723
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:56,360
Speaker 1: episodes plus our entire backlog of bonus episodes. Merch Got

1724
01:41:56,400 --> 01:42:00,320
Speaker 1: March at t flo dot com, slash the backdel asked.

1725
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:02,920
Speaker 1: Holidays are coming up gang if you if you want

1726
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:06,479
Speaker 1: to treat yourself, treat someone you love by all means,

1727
01:42:06,560 --> 01:42:09,320
Speaker 1: We've got all the designs. We also have our seasonal designs.

1728
01:42:09,360 --> 01:42:12,599
Speaker 1: If you want feminist icon baby Grinch, No, I think

1729
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,599
Speaker 1: it's queer baby queer. I'm so sorry queer. I call

1730
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:19,920
Speaker 1: baby grinch or just a simple grinch in heels. Text

1731
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:23,960
Speaker 1: free Grinch as well um Or or any of our

1732
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:28,240
Speaker 1: our designs. Feminist icon, feminist like all from Molina, Queer Icon,

1733
01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:33,080
Speaker 1: all the classics. Indeed, they're all there for you. And hey, Jamie, Yes,

1734
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:39,400
Speaker 1: Asta Levista, Baby, Asta Levista, Caitlin, Bye bye