WEBVTT - Is The Kinks’ “Waterloo Sunset” The Most Beautiful Song Ever? 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.880 Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:07.840 Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential, and sometimes controversial list. I'm 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:09.080 Britney Spanos and. 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.440 I'm Rob Sheffield. We're here to shed light on the 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.360 greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them so great. 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:17.560 So, Rob, what song are we going to talk about today? 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:18.160 Song? 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.640 Very Near and Dear to my Heart Waterloose Sunset by 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:22.520 the Kinks. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.320 And this song was at forty two on the original 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.520 list in two thousand and four and jumped up to 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:29.520 fourteen and twenty twenty one. 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:30.680 Mind blowing. 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.880 Yeah, there was one of very many moments going through 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:38.320 the list when seeing the new vote totals and seeing 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.800 the reaction for the list and seeing the Waterloo Sunset? 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.880 Was this high? Just a beautiful, beautiful thing? 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:46.519 Was the song on your list at all? 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:47.240 Yeah? 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:47.640 It was? 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.400 And I love so many songs by the Kinks, but 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:51.640 this one is so special. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.680 Yeah, I love this song. I feel like I know 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.400 kind of a lot of the bigger songs by the Kinks. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.040 There was also a well respected man I've always really 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:00.600 liked his was in Juno. 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:02.520 It's so good. 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.640 Yes, it seems very well and you know but yeah, Like, 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.680 I feel like there's so many different facets of the 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.600 Kinks sound that it's kind of fascinating that's all the 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:12.759 same band, you. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:17.160 Know, Yeah, the hard rock Kinks and then the delicate 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:18.520 introspective Kinks. 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:20.160 Yeah, and it's so. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.400 Well that they're the the ultimate brother band, right. It's 0:01:23.480 --> 0:01:28.400 like there's Ray Davies, who's the shy, introspective, bookish one 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.399 who's writing these incredibly delicate lyrics, and then there's brother Dave, 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:38.560 the guitar solo guy, and such opposite personalities. And no 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.960 brother band ever made more out of hating each other. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:47.360 Over the years, they made, you know, the Gallagher brothers 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.960 look like one big, happy family. They would just routinely 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.520 gush blood on stage from fisticuffs, and that was something 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:58.160 they were doing in the sixties when nobody was doing that. 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.640 We don't really have brothers doing that anymore. I kind 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:02.200 of wish we did. We need we need a new 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:03.760 pair of brothers to fight on stage. 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.080 Yes, awesome, we need sisters to open out this. 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:11.160 We need time to get if. 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:12.800 You have any issues you want to work out on 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:13.880 sta on stage. 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:18.000 Yes, while you're all like doing the joint drumming moment 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:19.800 like's let's get some blood. 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.840 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. It was shocking to me that Waterloo 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:28.200 Sunset was so high up on the list, given that, 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.200 you know, it's never been a radio hit. It's never 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.760 been a song that you hear in the deli, it's 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.280 never been a song that gets synced in movies or 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:41.160 TV shows, and so really for its entire history, it's 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.359 been sort of a cult favorite song. It's very comparable 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:48.160 to pet Sounds, I think, in terms of the way 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:54.959 Pet Sounds never blockbuster, but every generation discovers it and 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.240 once you hear it, it's in your soul forever. 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:57.680 Yeah. 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.040 I don't remember why I first heard it. I'm I 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.240 might have honestly been from the original list, like it 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.639 might have been from reading the two thousand and four 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:07.080 list and finding music from that, just because like I 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.360 feel like every other really big Kink song I have 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.920 very distinct like my shron in Reality bites and like 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:15.040 you Really Got Me the Van Halen cover and like 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.200 listening to that and like you know, I mean, Lola 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.000 was just like always played on radio and stuff like that. 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.120 So I feel like this song, I can't really remember 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:23.880 why I first heard it and why I love it 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.120 so much. I honestly do think it might be from 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.480 the original list and from listening that's so interesting, like 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:33.120 it feels like appropriate for kind of how long I 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:35.400 feel like I've known this song and where it probably 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:36.000 came from. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.640 It's just so delicate and vulnerable. I remember hearing it 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.400 on the radio as a little kid, yea, and it 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:47.640 was terrifying for me, just how vulnerable it was that 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.360 here's this guy, and I knew in my head that 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.800 he was the same guy who's sang you Really Got 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.920 Me and all Day and all of the Night and 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.680 all these bangers, and of course I knew and loved 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:01.240 Lola and so many any of Ray Davies' songs were 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.320 so funny, and some of them were so rowdy, and 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:10.600 I hadn't yet heard his quiet, introspective, fearful side, and 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:16.000 just this incredibly intimate portrait of just a man living alone, 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.640 looking out his window and following people day today, and 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.760 knowing this couple who meet at the subway station every 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.320 Friday night, and just rooting for them, and even though 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.560 he's got no friends and no love of his own, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.920 he totally takes pleasure in this life that they're having 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:37.279 there's no other. 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.880 Song like it. It's really amazing and you hear its. 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:44.039 Influence and songwriters now from Lord to Taylor Swift to 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.719 even Drake. I think Drake has a lot of Waterloo 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.800 Sunset energy in his songs. Yeah, Waterloo Sunset. It's so 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:54.440 quiet and almost defenseless sounding, but just overwhelmingly joyful too. Yeah. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.320 When I was reading about the song and like the 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.279 history of it, it was really like how ray I felt 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.200 so felt almost too vulnerable to share it with the band, Yeah, 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.720 which is such like a striking thing about just kind 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.279 of how intimate it felt, and also the fact, I 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.960 mean it was originally going to be Liverpool Sunset and 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:15.200 then a Peen Waterloo Sunset. But there's also like his 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:19.000 history with that particular tube station in London, and how 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.680 there's a hospital he was hospitalized as a teen really 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.640 close today. Just like all those little connections to it 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:26.160 are really fascinating to learn about it. 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.440 Well, London is a city, you. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.359 Know, Well, you become a regular in London and it 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:34.920 loves you. I do listen Waterloos. I like to listen 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.640 to songs of the cities that I'm going to when 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:41.600 I go to them, just to get into little method traveling, 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:43.640 you know. But I do listen to Waterloo Sunset every 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:44.440 time I go to London. 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:45.520 It's so beautiful. 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.080 Yeah. Also it changes a song so much when you 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.279 see the train station, which is not a romantic. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.680 Places truly horrendous. I mean I can't imagine romanticizing a 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.800 single tube station in London, but especially the Waterloo stations 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:00.680 easy in there. 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.760 Yes, it's giant, it's impersonal. It's better now than it was, 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.120 you know in the eighties when it was totally dump 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.440 and in Ray Davies's time, it was you know, he 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.840 really loved singing songs about London and it's when it 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:14.480 was the big Black smoke because he loved to sing. 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.479 He loved to sing songs about the seediest, crampedest, least 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.880 glamorous parts of the city and to find romance there. 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.480 But yeah, Waterloo Sunset really captures that. 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.559 I mean watching a sunset on river times is very, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.520 very beautiful, I will say, in spite of the station 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.599 itself being kind of chaotic, you know, it is a 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.200 there is a lot of beauty in that sort of 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.839 scene no matter what. So I'm like I could see why. 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:45.039 I remember I was in London interviewing Lily Allen, the 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:50.000 ultimate London girl you know from Clapham like and because 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.120 she is so quintessentially London, and I was like, I'm 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.760 here for a couple of days. What should I go see? 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.080 What should I do? What kind of London experience? And 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.000 she was like, to go to Waterloo Station and I 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.279 was like really, And She's like, everything you think about 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.599 the song is totally different when you see the station 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.600 and you see the river and you know, he says 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.600 it's dirty, old river. It's dirty, it's old. Yes, And 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.960 to have this beautiful story that's set in such an 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:25.200 unglamorous urban environment, and that's the way he liked to 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.640 tell his stories. Yeah, it's funny that this song, like 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.400 you said, he meant it to be Liverpool Sunset and 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.440 he's changed his mind after the Beatles did Penny Lane. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:36.600 It's funny because. 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.480 Penny Lane is such a Ray Davies kind of song, 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.040 and Paul McCartney was really the only other songwriter like 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.760 Ray Davies at the time who's writing these songs about 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:50.680 women in this really empathetic way that was completely unusual 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.400 for male songwriters at the time. That these aren't romantic objects, 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:56.280 and they aren't sexualized in any way, and they aren't 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.680 glamorized in any way. But when Paul sings about the 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.240 nurse and Penny Lane and he's just like wondering what 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.440 she thinks about, how she feels as if she's gonna play. 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.480 Their characters have interior lives in a way that just 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.560 makes other male songwriters of the era sound just really silly. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:15.560 Yeah. Yeah. And the kind of like voyeuristic element, I 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.840 mean kind of you know, kind of beautiful sort of 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:20.720 witnessing of a love story unfold who reminds me so 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.040 much of heroes as well, And like, of course David 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.680 Bowie covered Waterloo Sunset and has a great version of it, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:28.440 but it always reminds me of that. The idea of 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:30.480 like kind of looking through a window and seeing these 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.080 lovers and kind of seeing it unfold in front of you. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:38.240 That's such a brilliant comparison. That's absolutely right on. Yeah, 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:43.480 it's very similar stories in a very ugly, unromantic, dirty 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.760 unromantic kind of place to have this beautiful romantic moment 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:51.960 that somebody witnesses. But you know, Terry and Julie that 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:53.560 of course, like herrying it as a little kid. I 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.360 didn't realize that they were named after you know, famous 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.319 movie stars at the time symbolize swinging London for people, 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.920 Terence dam and Julie Christie. Just the idea of this 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:05.080 old man. It's funny that I have such a vivid 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:09.480 picture of a character and Waterloo sunset, and I picture him, 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.880 this old guy, this really vivid narrow apartment and this 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:17.280 narrow window that he's peaking through and seeing people walk by, 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.160 and he's just happy that they have their lives and 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.719 he doesn't feel bitter that he doesn't have that love 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:23.880 and romance in his own life. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:25.000 Yeah, really amazing. 0:09:25.160 --> 0:09:26.640 Yeah, I mean even just the way that he sings 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.160 and I Am Not Afraid is so heart wrenching, Like 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:30.359 it's so beautiful. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:31.720 It's really beautiful. 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:34.360 I feel like, Yeah, and both those songs are kind 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:38.320 of witnessing these like this love and romance unfold. There's 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.200 so much optimism, obviously, you know, this is Bowie and 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.120 Berlin and kind of singing about the optimism of the 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:44.880 future and like our hopes for it. And then of 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:47.680 course this is like just just watching a mundane kind 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.680 of day and seeing a lot of beauty in that 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.600 is very striking in both. 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.559 Yes, absolutely and weird. There was such a commercial flop 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.360 at the time. Yeah, and that's something that's as with 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.719 Pet Sounds. It's like easy part of the story. I mean, 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.040 Pet Sounds is such a classic now, it's weird to 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.199 think that it was a total flop that almost destroyed 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.200 the Beach Boys when it came out. And the same 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.240 is true with something else of the Kinks, that they 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.920 had all those great earlies when they were like just 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.839 you know, the ultimate London garage band, and you really 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.200 got me is so great all day and all of 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.160 the night. Like you said, there's a lot of hope 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.960 and optimism in a song that you know, it's very 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.000 like coming from a very sad place in some ways, 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.040 but you know you could definitely hear that. I love 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.679 his wife's vocal on the song. He's always said that 0:10:33.760 --> 0:10:35.320 he meant it to be a Liverpool song, and then 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.480 he thought, wait a minute. I've been a Londoner my 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:39.560 entire life. I was born here, I grew up here. 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.880 Why am I doing Liverpool song? London is my place? 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:43.720 And he had his. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.320 Wife come in and sing, and she's doing those beautiful 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.000 like vocal harmonies and you know, he's with his brother 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.640 and they're getting along great that day. And it's funny 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:55.800 that this song was made in an atmosphere of joy 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:58.920 and community when the song is about feeling very alone 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:00.840 but like you said, not feeling afraid. 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.440 Yeah. And why do you think it jumped up so 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.080 much on the list in between? 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:09.319 I partly think it's because there's so many songwriters now 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.400 who are trying to do this kind of song. And 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:15.360 Waterloo Sinse that was very unique kind of song. But 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.960 I still remember as a little kid hearing it for 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.560 the first time, yea, being really shocked. I was like, wait, 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.280 he doesn't need any friends. Wait, why is he out 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.800 there trying to make friends? Isn't that how what usually 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:31.880 happens in a song is somebody has an emotional problem 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.200 and they learn something, they get over it whatever. I'm like, No, 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.280 this guy begins a song very sad and alone, and 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:42.640 he ends very alone, but he takes joy in other 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:43.800 people having their lives. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:44.400 Yeah. 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.200 And that was a lot of process for me as 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.280 a little kid. And I think because songwriters are now 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.120 so interested in stories like that. You know, we mentioned 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:57.439 Taylor Swift and Lord and Drake, but there's certainly a 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.200 lot more. The song is sort of a template for 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:03.920 kind of songwriting that people are more ambitious about trying now. 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.160 And I remember that song. I remember when the two 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:09.880 thousand and four version of a list came out. I 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:11.680 was so surprised it was so high then, And I 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.920 was so glad to see it so high, because you know, 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.040 it was never any kind of hit or radio staple. 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.319 But something about the bravery of the song, that it's 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.920 a song about a very shy person speaking up and 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.560 telling the story of their life. I think that really 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.240 speaks to people. I don't know what to make of this, 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.040 but the fact that the balloting for this list was 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.600 done in the spring of twenty twenty, when a lot 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.640 of people were feeling this way. I wasn't in the 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.240 mood at all to listen to Waterloo Sunset. In the 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.480 spring of twenty twenty, the pandemic started, we all thought 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.960 it would be. It took everyone by surprise not to 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.560 get into the whole story of it. But at that moment, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.360 a song like Waterloose Sunset was speaking way too much 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.000 to like how I was feeling. That was part of 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.640 my surprise seeing it so high in the list. I thought, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.040 you know, are people just feeling this way? 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.120 You could feel so much of that in a lot 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.520 of songs in the way that things like shook out 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.560 in terms of the voting, where you can tell people 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:12.000 were literally going to their comfort songs in a lot 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.320 of ways, and going to the songs that like bring 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.640 them some sort of like warmth or like sometimes hope 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.520 or sometimes kind of just like letting them kind of 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.280 sit in whatever sadness or anger they were feeling at 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:22.600 the time. 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.520 Absolutely, Ray Davies, He's got so much in common for 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:30.000 me with Smokey Robinson as a singer and songwriter and 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.840 someone who is able to like type into emotions that 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.800 other songwriters at the time were just terrified of going 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.359 anywhere near, and that they both had this really forlorn 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:43.200 quality in their voices, and yet there's so much wit 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.160 and humor and playfulness in their songs. But I think 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.640 of Ray and Smokey as two songwriters that were had 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.199 a lot in common but very different from what anybody 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.280 else was doing at the time. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:54.880 Yeah, Ray Davies. 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.480 Something I love about Ray Davies that I love so 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.520 many things about Ray Davies, but the fact that he's 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.400 always surprised by which songs of his striking nerve with 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.599 people over the years, and he's often expressed surprise that 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.720 Waterloo Sunset means so much to people. It's funny that 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.880 he did all these lofty, theatrical concept albums in the 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.880 seventies The Kinks Present a soap Opera or preservation Act too, 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.520 and that he thought of those at the time as 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.920 his major works of the period. And it was always 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.120 so funny for him that people attached to Kink's deep 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:34.680 cuts and B sides. It was really wild that for 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.800 a long time he was in a couple with Chrissy 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:41.080 Hind from The Pretenders when she was like the coolest 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:44.640 punk rocker in the universe, and it was so wild 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.680 that she was into all these songs that were Kink's 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.440 B sides. She's saying I Go to sleep and stop 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.080 your Sobbing, which were total deep cut yeah songs, and 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.760 that Van Halen did. Of course, they're huge version of 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.000 you Really Got Me, But they also did this incredibly 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.680 obscure Kinks by side where of all the good Times Gone. 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.200 He has so many. 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:09.520 Songs from this period that people will hear and they're like, nope, 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.240 that's my song. So songs that were totally obscure and 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.960 forgotten just became touchstones for people. 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.080 I love that there are multiple Van Halen the Kinks 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.880 like connections. I didn't realize there's a second song that 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:23.320 they also. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:26.880 You mentioned David Bowie. 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.440 Yeah, and of course he did a beautiful version of 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.880 this song after being a fan of it his whole life. 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.280 It's fairly in two thousand and three with reality, But 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.080 the connections between Ray Davies and David Bowie are so interesting. 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.360 Yeah, yeah, I love his version of it a lot. 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:45.800 I didn't hear that until later. Honestly, I don't think 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.280 I heard reality until like much later, But I do 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:48.760 love that. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:53.160 Very underrated, Oh my god, great period for Bowie. But 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:57.359 Bowie always cited Ray Davies is one of his best influences, 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.920 not just as a songwriter but as a singer. That 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.440 they both were very into doing the London accent without 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:07.960 toning it down to explain where it sounds really funny 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.120 to American ears, like yeah, but you know, Bowie did 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.080 wear of All the Good Times Gone on his Pin 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.280 Ups album, and he really played up the sort of 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.680 you know, cartoon London schoolboys sort of accent. But yeah, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.560 the connection you made between Waterloo Sunset and Heroes is 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.280 so fascinating because they were both so interested in these 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.080 kind of love songs that take place with people who 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.840 are misfits from the rest of the world and they 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.840 just have nothing but each other, but that's enough for them. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:40.640 Yeah, I mean just kind of the sort of like 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.200 witness scene of a scene in pop music is always 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.640 such an underrated kind of vehicle in singing about something 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.840 like I just I love that sort of kind of 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.960 that window into something else that a great pop writer 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.120 could really yeah do where they kind of go outside 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:58.560 of themselves and they're like, here's what I'm witnessing right 0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:00.320 in front of my eyes of this beautiful scene and 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.680 kind of adding these kind of making up these characters 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:04.400 in the same way that a person does when they're 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.000 listening to a great song. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.800 Anyway, absolutely, I remember in the eighties Bob Geldoff did 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:13.560 a sequel to Waterloo Sunset where. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:15.879 Really where Terry and Julie. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.399 Got married and then got divorced, and I remember thinking, like, 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:24.960 Bob Geldoff, this is not your this is not your story. Yes, 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.320 you don't have to break I get now that this 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.360 is you know, like people hear different parts of their 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:33.080 story in this song. But I remember I was appalled, like, 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.359 you know, like when Bob Geldoff did this and I was, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.960 you know, a teenager, and I was like, you can't. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.000 Have Terry and Julie break up. 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.639 There was the whole purpose, yes, But it's funny that 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.159 to me Waterloos, since I was in a song identified 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:52.000 with so much when I was nineteen and I thought, Wow. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:52.159 This is me. 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:55.080 I'm the guy in this song. I felt so old 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:57.320 at nineteen that I was like, yep, this is me. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:58.760 This is how the rest of my life will be. 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.120 And it's funny that a few years later I've felt 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.840 much more like Terry and Julian, And I thought, isn't 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:06.840 that weird that when I was a teenager, I was 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.359 so sure that I was the Ray Davies guy in 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.320 this story, and a few years later I was like 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:15.040 back to like feeling like Ray Davies again, and a 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.920 few years later is back to feeling like Terry and 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.320 Julian again. Like, it's really funny that this is a 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.920 story that we're all part of, from different areas, from 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.320 different parts of the story, from different perspectives, and it's 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.800 just a song that changes as you love it over 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.720 the years. And the way he says very beautifully in 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.880 the song, the social anxiety he talks about in such 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.840 a matter of fact way, you know, like I'm so lazy. 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.120 I don't like to wander. I stay at home at night. 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.719 And I thought he liked Terry and Julie because they 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.159 leave the city behind and go home. It's like, no, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.879 they're not going home. They're going out, probably to the 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.159 same bar and soho where Lola is hanging out. It 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.159 really kind of changed the song that his selfless joy 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.440 in the life that they have. It's just astonishing, what 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.879 a generous song it is. It realids, you have a 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:02.560 Beatles song that I know you love as much as 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.920 I do. She loves you? Yea where Paul who's narrating 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.680 the song, if we can call it Paul. It sounds 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:11.640 like Paul to me. But he's like, look, she loves you. 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.120 She doesn't love me, she loves you. I think she's 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.280 wrong about this. I think she's an idiot to love 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.840 you so much. But you two have each other. You 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.880 should be glad about this, and you should make things 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.600 right with her. It's really amazing, Like how generous that 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.159 song is that the narrator is very like, Yeah, you 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.560 screwed it up with this girl. You need to make it, 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.000