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Speaker 1: The US Sector of State, Anthony blink And has held

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Speaker 1: hours of talks with Israel ahead of a visit tomorrow

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Speaker 1: by the US President Joe Biden, a trip designed to

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Speaker 1: show US solidarity but also to try to prevent the

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Speaker 1: conflict from engulfing the region. Joining us this morning is

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Speaker 1: Mark Regev, who is senior advisor to the Israeli Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Benjamin et Nyahoo is also the former Israeli Ambassador

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Speaker 1: to the UK. Mark Regev, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: your time for joining us here on Bloomberg Radio. I

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Speaker 1: just want to start with the latest details that we

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Speaker 1: have from the Associated Press saying that Israeli air forces

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Speaker 1: have struck southern Gaza, where Israel has ordered Palestinians or

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Speaker 1: encouraged Palestinians to try to seek refuge. Can you confirm

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Speaker 1: that and what happens to those Palestinians who are trying

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Speaker 1: to move south.

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Speaker 2: So, of course we target Hamas. We want to destroy

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Speaker 2: Hamas's military machine and dismantle its.

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Speaker 3: Police structure in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: That's our goal, and at the same time, in parallel,

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Speaker 2: we want to do what can be done to safeguard

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Speaker 2: the life of the innocent civilian population of the Gaza strip,

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Speaker 2: So it's quite possible we are targeting hamas facilities in

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Speaker 2: the south, but we're doing so in a way that

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Speaker 2: we are making every effort possible not to see any

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Speaker 2: collateral damage. In every war, unfortunately, in recent history civilians

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Speaker 2: have been caught up and there have been civilian casualties.

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Speaker 2: We know that, but as a democratic country that.

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Speaker 3: Abides by the rules of.

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Speaker 2: War, we are making a maximum effort to target civilian,

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Speaker 2: to target the CAMAS terrorists and safeguard civilians. And that's

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Speaker 2: why we've asked people to vacate the north, where we

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Speaker 2: know there will be very complex and vicious fighting. We

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Speaker 2: want them out of harm's way. We don't want them

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Speaker 2: caught up in the crossfire between US and COMMAS.

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Speaker 4: Okay, and so you've called for them to move to

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Speaker 4: the south. That's been controversial in itself, and we've seen

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Speaker 4: you and other.

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Speaker 2: Controversial from the COMMAS is active in the south. We

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Speaker 2: will strike COMMAS.

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Speaker 4: What I should What I should say is many aid

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Speaker 4: groups have suggested that it was going to be very challenging,

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Speaker 4: and they've used more extreme words than that to move

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Speaker 4: people to the south. But having moved to the south,

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Speaker 4: many people in Gaza might have thought that they would

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Speaker 4: be safe, but you're suggesting that they are not safe

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Speaker 4: from from becoming as you describe collateral damage in the south.

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Speaker 2: So I'd stress we've asked them to leave the north

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Speaker 2: because that where we know there is vicious there is

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Speaker 2: terrible fighting ahead of us. We're going to send in

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Speaker 2: ground forces quite possibly, and they will face house to

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Speaker 2: house fighting. COMMAS is built in there in the north,

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Speaker 2: especially in Gaza City, where they have their military infrastructure

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Speaker 2: under civilian neighbors. Their tunnels, their bunkers, their their command

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Speaker 2: and control, their arms depots, their rocket launchers. That's all there,

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Speaker 2: and we have to destroy that, and that's why we've

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Speaker 2: asked civilians to vacate in the south. If there are

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Speaker 2: specific COMMAS targets that need to be targeted, we will

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Speaker 2: target them. Hamas cannot have immunity anywhere, not in Gaza,

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Speaker 2: not outside Gas. But we are not targeting civilians in

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Speaker 2: the south, and it's much safer for them to be

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Speaker 2: in the south than in the north. Can I guarantee

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Speaker 2: to you that no civilian will be hurt in southern Gaza.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to be able to, but unfortunately the realities

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Speaker 2: of modern war make that impossible, but I can guarantee

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Speaker 2: that we will make a maximum effort to avoid that happening.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, you should know that from mas

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Speaker 2: Hamas has a deliberate policy of keeping people in arms

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Speaker 2: way when we ask people to evacuate future.

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Speaker 1: So then why not not allow the Rafa crossing to

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Speaker 1: open into Egypt? That there seems to be all sides

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Speaker 1: but blaming each other for that border not being allowed

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Speaker 1: to open. Is there going to be any change some

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Speaker 1: some view that there would be a period of time

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Speaker 1: when the Rafa crossing would be open, and that's happened

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Speaker 1: in several days in a row. Is that going to

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Speaker 1: happen now?

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Speaker 2: Well, it was supposed to happen yesterday. We worked with

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Speaker 2: the relevant international partners to make it happen yesterday, and

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Speaker 2: we expected yesterday already there was supposed to be an

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Speaker 2: exit of foreign nationals. Unfortunately Hamas prevented that from happening.

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Speaker 2: They closed their side of the crossing. And this is

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Speaker 2: another example of Hamas doesn't give a hoot about innocent

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Speaker 2: civilian life, not Israeli life, and in this case, not Palestinian.

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Speaker 4: Will it be attempted again? Today, will it be attempting

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Speaker 4: to open the Raffa crossing again.

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Speaker 2: We are working with foreign governments to facilitate the exit

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Speaker 2: of civilians through the Rafa crossing. And your questions, it

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Speaker 2: should have happened yesterday, Camas prevented it from happening. They

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Speaker 2: are holding Look, they're holding some two hundred Israelis hostage

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Speaker 2: inside Gaza. They are using Gaza's Palestinian civilians as a

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Speaker 2: human sheeper for their war machine. And now as of

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Speaker 2: yesterday they started using the foreign nationals also as hostages,

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Speaker 2: refusing to allow them to leave.

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Speaker 1: That's the truth, Ambassador Ambassadorga. According to your public comments,

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Speaker 1: you've been present in meetings recently between Anthony Blincoln and

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Speaker 1: Netanya who these ready Prime Minister what Is and his

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Speaker 1: war cabinet thinking now about pursuing Hamas. Does Israel need

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Speaker 1: President Biden's approval support? How would you characterize that?

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Speaker 2: First of all, very thankful and appreciative of American support,

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Speaker 2: and American support has been in diplomacy, in their moral clarity,

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Speaker 2: in the way they've described Hamas as an Isis organization.

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Speaker 2: On the Sunday night, President Biden even made a comparison

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Speaker 2: with the Nazis, and he's correct because the attack by Hamas,

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Speaker 2: the massacre of October seventh, was the greatest single act

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Speaker 2: of anti Semitic than since nineteen forty five, since the terrible.

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Speaker 3: Years of the Holocaust, And so we're thankful.

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Speaker 2: We're thankful for that verbal support, for that diplomatic support,

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Speaker 2: but also they've given us material support. They are helping

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Speaker 2: replenish our stockpiles of weaponry, and they've of course moved

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Speaker 2: their two aircraft carrier.

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Speaker 3: Groups to the eastern Mediterranean.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a deterrence to other dangerous actors in

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Speaker 2: the region not to think that this is a time

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Speaker 2: to attack Israel that I think they've been playing a

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Speaker 2: very positive role. And when the president here is arriving

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Speaker 2: tomorrow in Israel, we will welcome him as a friend,

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Speaker 2: as an ally, and we look forward to rolling out

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Speaker 2: the red carpet.

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Speaker 1: When you talk about foreign nationals and the UK, the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister of as you see I talked about ten

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Speaker 1: missing UK nationals. Are you saying that foreign nationals are

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Speaker 1: being held hostage in Gaza now? Also if they're not

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Speaker 1: being allowed to cross the Rafa crossing into Egypt, is

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Speaker 1: that what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: I'm saying yesterday people were supposed to leave and Hamas

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Speaker 2: prevented them from doing so. Their exit was coordinated with Israel,

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Speaker 2: with the relevant foreign governments, and Hamas prevented that from happening.

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Speaker 2: I can say that for a fact. Is that How

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Speaker 2: does one explain that? What words would you use? I

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Speaker 2: would say that using foreign nationals as hostages as well?

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Speaker 1: What does a long and costly war mean to you?

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Speaker 1: Israel's defense sector? You of Galant saying and telling the U.

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Speaker 1: S Sextory of State Blincoln that Israeli forces are preparing

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Speaker 1: for a long and costly war? How long? What does

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Speaker 1: that mean?

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to understand that this is not

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Speaker 2: another round of Israel Kamas fighting. You know, since Hamas

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Speaker 2: took over the Gaza Strip sixteen years ago, we've had

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Speaker 2: numerous rounds of fighting where they shot rockets into Israel

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Speaker 2: and we responded and so forth. That's no longer the case.

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Speaker 3: This is war.

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Speaker 2: What they did on October seventh, their massacre of our people,

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Speaker 2: three hundred Israeli deaths and about two hundred people held

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Speaker 2: hostage in Gaza, this isis type behavior, These atrocities, the

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Speaker 2: status quo that was before October tenth is unsustainable. Israelis

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Speaker 2: will not stand for it anymore. We are acting now

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Speaker 2: to change the political realities in the Gaza Strip, and

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Speaker 2: when this is over, there will be a different reality there.

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Speaker 3: We didn't want this war.

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Speaker 2: It was forced upon us, okay, and though we didn't

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Speaker 2: start it, we will finish it. And when we finish it,

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Speaker 2: we will do so on our terms.

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Speaker 1: So what is the mood then if you have been

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Speaker 1: in those meetings between Benjamin Etniahu and Anthony Blinkett, and

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Speaker 1: you're expecting the US President now tomorrow, the German chance

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Speaker 1: also today, what is the mood in those meetings now

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Speaker 1: ten days after the Harmas attack.

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Speaker 2: So there's First of all, we're receiving amazing solidarity from

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Speaker 2: friends and allies in North America and in Europe, and

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Speaker 2: Israel is appreciative of that support. And I think there's

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Speaker 2: a determination in Israel to win this. We have no choice.

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Speaker 2: We have to win and win decisively, and we will win,

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Speaker 2: and we might pay our price. As our Defense minister said,

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Speaker 2: this could take This could take time, and many young

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Speaker 2: Israeli soldiers who are going into battle might not come home.

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Speaker 2: I myself have a daughter who's a reserve officer, and

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Speaker 2: she was called up and she's in the South, and

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Speaker 2: like hundreds and thousands of Israeli parents, I of course

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Speaker 2: I am concerned, but when speaking to my daughter, they

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Speaker 2: are determined to fight to protect their country.

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Speaker 3: From these brutal killers.

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Speaker 2: We all saw what they did in the massacre of

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Speaker 2: October seventh.

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Speaker 3: We know what they're capable of.

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Speaker 2: This is a threat that no people on this planet

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Speaker 2: should have to live with, and we are eliminating the threat.

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Speaker 4: Can I ask you reference October seventh, and of course

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Speaker 4: and the loss of life, and the tactics use, and

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Speaker 4: the indiscriminate nature of the killing clearly coming as a

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Speaker 4: huge shock to Israel and around the world. But now

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Speaker 4: we're in a situation where more Palestinians have died since

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Speaker 4: then in Gaza. I wonder what that means in Israel.

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Speaker 2: So of course we don't want to see civilian casualties,

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Speaker 2: and we're making an effort, as I said a moment ago,

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Speaker 2: to keep those as low as is.

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Speaker 4: Are you making enough effort though, because you say the

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Speaker 4: West supports you, and there's been plenty of calls for support,

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Speaker 4: but also calls for restraint.

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Speaker 2: So we will act within the rules of a war

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Speaker 2: that recognized international rules of war. I'd remind you if

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Speaker 2: I can use a historic example, when Molossovich was committing

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Speaker 2: war crimes against the people of of Kosovo, there was

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Speaker 2: a bombing campaign by NATO against Belgrade. It was a

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Speaker 2: just campaign. It was it was a struggle to save lives.

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Speaker 2: Innocent Serbs were killed. Now that's a sad fact of war.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to see. We will act to minimize it.

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Speaker 2: But if you say to me, and I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: you're saying it, but maybe other people are. If you

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Speaker 2: say to me that because there will be civilian casualties,

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Speaker 2: Israel is not entitled to defend itself to protect itself

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Speaker 2: from this horrific terrorist group who isis type behavior was

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Speaker 2: on display for everyone to see. That's not serious. Israel

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Speaker 2: has the right to defend ourselves and we will do

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Speaker 2: so within the framework of international law and the international

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Speaker 2: rules of MKONG.

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Speaker 1: Yes, international law and the rules of international armed conflict.

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Speaker 1: But you say that you will end this on your terms.

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Speaker 1: What are your terms? What does victory look like? What

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Speaker 1: does Gaza? What does Israel look like? If you want

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Speaker 1: to end this conflict on your own terms.

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Speaker 2: As you say so, we will destroy Ramasa's military capabilities,

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Speaker 2: and we will dismantle its political structure inside the Gaza

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Speaker 2: strip and what.

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Speaker 1: Is left of any city and towns in Gars at the.

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Speaker 2: End of that well, obviously the Kramas targets will be destroyed.

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Speaker 2: But we are not targeting Gaza's civilian population. I repeat,

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Speaker 2: but if I can use a comparison, I mean the

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Speaker 2: American president and European leaders have made a comparison with ISIS. Yes,

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Speaker 2: when the West, when the coalition, the International Coalition defeated ISIS,

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Speaker 2: ISIS had a few cities, there was destruction there too. Sometimes,

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Speaker 2: when you are fighting a brutal enemy, that enemy implants

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Speaker 2: itself in a civilian population. We don't want to hurt civilians,

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Speaker 2: but in many ways that is inevitable. We will make

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Speaker 2: a maximum effort to keep that number to a minimum.

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Speaker 2: But once again, we can't allow Hamas to have immunity.

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Speaker 2: We can't allow them to successfully use Gaza civilian population

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Speaker 2: as a human shield for their terror machine.

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Speaker 4: Anthony Blinkin has said that Israel has agreed a plan

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Speaker 4: with the US to enable humanitarian aid to reach civilians

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Speaker 4: in Gaza. I wonder if you have any more details

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Speaker 4: of how that can be done, what that means for water,

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Speaker 4: for medical supplies and the rest.

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Speaker 3: We're working very closely with the Americans on that. We

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Speaker 3: had extensive meetings yesterday with the Secretary.

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Speaker 4: How soon you can we expect those supplies to be

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Speaker 4: allowed in because we've seen the pictures of the trucks waiting.

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Speaker 2: From my point of view, we want that, we want

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Speaker 2: humanitarian relief for the people of Gaza, But there are

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Speaker 2: questions that need to be answered. Anthony B. Lincoln said

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Speaker 2: specifically that we have to be able to quoting by memory,

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Speaker 2: but he talked about to make sure that these supplies

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Speaker 2: reach the civilian population of Gaza. And why does that

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Speaker 2: need to be said? Because Hamas are the only people

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Speaker 2: on the ground inside the Gaza Strip with weapons, and

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Speaker 2: they have the ability to hijack supplies. They have the

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Speaker 2: ability to take it away from the civilian population. They

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Speaker 2: have done so in the past.

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Speaker 4: So does that mean you can't send in any so

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Speaker 4: you won't send it? Is it possible to send in

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Speaker 4: aid then before you were on the ground, before Israel

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Speaker 4: is on the ground.

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Speaker 2: We believe it's possible, but we have to find safeguards

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Speaker 2: in the mechanisms we use. We don't want fuel for

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Speaker 2: Ramas rockets, we want fuel for generators in hospitals. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's something that all the donors in the

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Speaker 2: international community who want to send a they have to

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Speaker 2: be assured that the aid is reaching the people of

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Speaker 2: Gaza and not Ramasa's terrorist machine.

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Speaker 1: Can an escalation be prevented with Hesbela and Lebanon Letnia,

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Speaker 1: who has warned not to test Israel in the north,

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Speaker 1: that testing does seem to be taking place.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and it's a worrying situation. We have no interest

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Speaker 2: in an escalation in the North. We have no interest

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Speaker 2: in a two front war. But Chisbela is Hamasa's twin.

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Speaker 2: They are both terrorist groups. The Arab League calls Hizbela

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Speaker 2: a terrorist group and they are because they're in the

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Speaker 2: Iranian orbit. They could world see. This is a moment

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Speaker 2: of opportunity to attack Israel and it's dangerous. But I

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Speaker 2: will say the following one Chrisbela won't take us by

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Speaker 2: surprise like Hamas did. We are on guard, we are

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Speaker 2: looking and we are ready. If they force a war

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Speaker 2: upon us, we will respond forcibly and decisively, and unfortunately

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Speaker 2: unfortunately for Lebanon. Because Chrisbola obviously controls the ground, the

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Speaker 2: Lebanese government is largely irrelevant.

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Speaker 3: They have no power to restrain Krisbela.

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Speaker 2: But I have to be clear such a conflict, we

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Speaker 2: will hit Chrisbela hard and Lebanon, unfortunately, in the process,

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Speaker 2: will also base a terrible price.

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Speaker 4: Can I ask you about the whyder geopolitics at play here?

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Speaker 4: Before that the dreadful events of October seventh that were

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Speaker 4: talks between Israel and the Saudis about coming to a

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Speaker 4: new understanding, new relationships. Has all of that process come

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Speaker 4: to an end? There is there room for any of

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Speaker 4: those talks to continue?

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Speaker 3: I think yes.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, while the fighting is going on, that is a

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Speaker 2: touch more difficult. But if we succeed, and I believe

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Speaker 2: we will, in decisively defeating Ramas, that's a blow against

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Speaker 2: the enemies of peace, that's a blow against the extremists,

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Speaker 2: that's a blow against the Iranian coalition. That's a blow

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Speaker 2: against terrorism, and that I think can create space for

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Speaker 2: more moderate voices. And we're speaking to Arab governments. They

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Speaker 2: have a love for Ramas, they have no affection for Kamas.

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Speaker 2: They know exactly who Hamas is, and I think they

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Speaker 2: would like to see a different reality in Gaza too.

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Speaker 2: They are, of course concerned like many others, about Parestinian

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Speaker 2: civilian life.

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Speaker 3: We are doing much.

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Speaker 2: More, and it's actually I think it's interesting because Israel

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Speaker 2: is perceived as being the enemy of the Palestinians and

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Speaker 2: Hamas is the defender, yes, of the Palestinians, but it's rubbish.

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Speaker 2: We are doing more to safeguard Palestinian life in this

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Speaker 2: conflict than kamasis, which is using the civilians as a

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Speaker 2: human shield, and which is actually preventing them from evacuating

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Speaker 2: areas where we know there's going to be terrible combat.

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Speaker 2: They you know, in Israel and in democratic countries, our

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Speaker 2: armed services, our armed forces are used to protect the civilians.

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Speaker 2: In Gaza, Kamas flips it. They use the civilians to

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Speaker 2: protect the military.

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Speaker 1: Mark Gregev, thank you so much for your time this

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Speaker 1: morning on Bloomberg Radio. Senior advisor to the Israeli Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister of Benjamin Nettnia, who also formerly Israeli Ambassador to

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Speaker 1: the United Kingdom,