1 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: Welcome back, guys to a brand new episode of You 2 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Need Therapy. Is weird when I say that every episode? 3 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Is that what you're supposed to do? I think that's 4 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: what you're supposed to say. Okay, well, we have a 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: very special episode and I have my friend Kelen what 6 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: up here with me. You guys might know her. She's 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: been on the podcast quite a few times, and we 8 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: will explain why she's on here in a second. But 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: anything you want to say to the people before we 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm just happy to be here. Okay. So I'm glad 11 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: you're happy to be here because this will be the 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: third time we have done this and I'm very grateful 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: that you are willing to do this again. And it's 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: a labor of love. It's the labor of love. I 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: want you guys to know a lot when is going 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: into this episode more than it should. But here we are, 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: so let's just get into it right. Okay, So you 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: guys might have already figured it out, but this episode 19 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: is going to be about narcissism. I guess I should 20 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: read that. Oh yeah, our your statement? Yeah, my statement, 21 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: it's pr statement. Publicist wrote this. Okay, So this episode 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: is on narcissism, and before we get started, I just 23 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: want to talk to you a little bit about why 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: we're doing this and what the goal is. So, the 25 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: goal of this episode is to help other people understand 26 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: what it feels like to be impacted in whatever kind 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: of relationship, whether it's romantic, a coach, a boss, a parent, 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: a friend to The goal is to help anybody who's 29 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: been impacted with or by someone with narcissistic traits, or 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: somebody who has full blown narcissistic personally disorder. We will 31 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: also be talking about the difference of those, so really 32 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: our goal is to help people understand what it is. Now, 33 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: some of you may be aware that I have previously 34 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: released an episode on narcissism that has since been removed 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: from the UNIQ Therapy library. For that reason, I would 36 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: like to bring attention to a very distinct disclaimer and 37 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: make it more clear than ever that throughout the entirety 38 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: of this podcast and especially this episode, I am in 39 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: no way diagnosing anyone with any mental health disorder. I 40 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: also don't want to diagnose anybody with a mental health disorder. 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: I can't do that unless you're in my room and 42 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: asking for help and treatment. And if you were in 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: my office and I have offered you a diagnosis, I 44 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: definitely wouldn't be talking about it on here because Hippa 45 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: And also I just wouldn't do that because I'm not 46 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: a bad person, She's a professional. So I will be 47 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: talking about experiences, some real and some hypothetical that will 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: help paint the picture of what narcissistic traits can look like. 49 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: And additionally, with that, myself and Kellen will share how 50 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: we felt as a direct result of these types of interaction. 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: My hope in releasing this episode is to help educate 52 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: humans who, like I did, may find themselves in the 53 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: midst of a relationship that makes you or them or 54 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: I feel crazy, devalued, or just straight up confused. And 55 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: I want to empower individuals to help find refuge and 56 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: healing from relationships that have damaged their sense of self. 57 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: When narcissistic behaviors enter a relationship, it can be tricky 58 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: and messy, and it's hard to find your sense of 59 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: power and your sense of self advocacy and that space. 60 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: And today I'm here to tell you that it doesn't 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: have to be impossible. Amen. Okay, shall we start with 62 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: what isn't narcissist. Yeah, why do you think it's such 63 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: a trendy word that's being thrown around right now? We 64 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 1: throw this word around way, way, way too much. And 65 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: there I have a couple ideas of why I think 66 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that is, and you can give your two cents. I 67 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: really would like us to stop calling everybody who's a 68 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: jerk a narcissist. The truth is, you can act or be, 69 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: in quotes narcissistic and not have a personality disorder. And 70 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: I really want everybody to know they friends. So I 71 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: think one of the reasons that we just label people 72 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: that very easily is because when I can call somebody 73 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: else a narcissist, I can take away any of the 74 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: blame on anything that I've done, right, so I get 75 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: to be a victim. I feel like it has a 76 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: little bit more weight than just calling him an asshole, right, 77 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because an asshole like you can have some 78 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: blame in that situation as well, But if you call 79 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: him on a narcissist, it's like all their fault. Yes, yes, 80 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: And so I think part of it is a lot 81 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: of us don't want to look at ourselves because looking 82 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: at our stulf is hard, and we will get a 83 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: little bit more into that. But the reason that's trendy 84 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: is we have a rise in narcissism in America. So 85 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: I think the statistic from psychology today was seventy of 86 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: I think was college age students scored higher on narcissism 87 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: and lower on empathy than they did thirty years ago. 88 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: Sings really scary. And we have a rise in narcissism 89 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: for multiple reasons, one being the cohort that we grew 90 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: up in, which this is not a bad thing. I 91 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: think this was good intentions, but our cohort, we grew 92 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: up in this like self esteem generation, right, Like we 93 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: want to give everybody self esteem. The issue is how 94 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 1: we get our self esteem. Like we need self esteem, 95 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: but if we're getting it from the outside, if we're 96 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: getting it from achievements and grades and status. Self esteem 97 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: says that you're good when you're performing well, and only 98 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: one person can be the best, right, And so then 99 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: everybody's trying to fight to be the best, and if 100 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: you're not the best, you're not good, right. So I 101 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: think that that's part of one of one of the 102 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: reasons that narcissism has risen is how we're going about 103 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: getting our self esteem from outside sources and less internal. 104 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: So let's talk about what the difference between the tendency 105 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: and the traits and the disorder. Okay, so you know 106 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: more than most people on this, but what would you 107 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: guess the differences. My guess is that we can probably 108 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: take on some narcissistic traits if we're in an unhealthy state, 109 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: like if we were just being selfish or we're upset 110 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: about things. It can be a stand alone instance, um 111 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:05,239 Speaker 1: where it happens. And then also at the same time, 112 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: like we do have to have some self love, like 113 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: that's important. And while we might hurt some people, from 114 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: what I experience and what I know that a narcissist 115 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: or someone that actually has the personality disorder, it shows 116 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: up in all areas of their life. It is not 117 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: just like stand alone instances where they have unhealthy moments. 118 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: It is all real relationships that it takes on a 119 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: hundred percent. Okay, So let's start with this. Remember when 120 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: I call this a hot take, I think it is 121 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: a take. Okay, So the hot take that I'm going 122 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: to throw at you guys is everybody has to have 123 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: a healthy amount of narcissism. We need a healthy they 124 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: don't have to have. But we need a healthy amount 125 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: of narcissum to survive in the world because we need 126 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: to feel confident and we need to feel like we 127 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: are successful in order to connect with people and relate 128 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: to people and show up fully as us to paggyback 129 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: off that what is the Webster's Dictionary of narcissism like, 130 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: if we're to have a healthy amount of it, what 131 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: is why? Don't know? The Webster's Dictionary can look it up. 132 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: But the word narcissism, if you bring it to the 133 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: basic sense of it, means a tendency to self worship. 134 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: This stems from a desire to be loved and cared for, 135 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: which is a very normal thing that we all should 136 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: and need. That's very normal. It can look like selfishness, 137 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: It can look like a sense of entitlement. It can 138 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: look like a lack of empathy and a desire and 139 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: a need for admiration. Again, we all have these traits. 140 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: We all have. This all shows up in our lives 141 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: at some point, but it's not pervasive, and so we 142 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: can have traits of narcissism and not have a full 143 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: blown disorder because it shows up in pockets of our lives. 144 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: We all also go through a narcissistic stage of development, Okay, 145 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: And so a lot of times people will say, like 146 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: when they're learning or figuring out what narcissism is, like 147 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: that sounds like my teenager. So like the way they're acting, 148 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: because it's super normal for a teenager, beating, really egocentric 149 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: and obsessed with themselves super normal. And so what happens, 150 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: and we're going to get deeper into this, but what 151 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: happens is there's a wound, there's an injury, a trauma, 152 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: whether it be big tier little, to that happens in 153 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: the stage of a development. Narcissism, usually from what we know, 154 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: starts in childhood, from a wounded childhood to adolescents, and 155 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: so they get stuck in that stage of development never 156 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: moved past it where it's really it would be normal 157 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: behavior for like a sixteen year old, but a forty 158 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: year old man shouldn't be acting like that. Yeah, And 159 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: when I when I think back to when you say 160 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: acting out as a teenager, like any of those selfish 161 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: tendencies or anything like that, that I was acting out, 162 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: it was all of insecurity one percent, because I'm trying 163 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: to figure out who I am? Yes, yes, yes, and 164 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: you're trying to find your footing now. So narcissistic personality 165 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: disorder is one of ten personality disorders, just one of ten. 166 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: It consists of long term traits, it doesn't. It's not like, oh, 167 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: they were a narcissist from thirty to thirty five. Like. 168 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: It's a long term thing and the traits impact the 169 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: people that they're in relationship with and infuriates any inner 170 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: personal relationships that are very close. Now, again, you have 171 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: to meet certain criteria that's in the d s M. 172 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 1: Do you want to tell everybody with the d s M. 173 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: The last time we recorded, Kellen asked me to say 174 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: what it meant? So do you know what you remember? 175 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: I don't remember. Diagnostic Statistical Manual and we're in the 176 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: fifth edition and they're probably going to come out with 177 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: another one soon. But this is a little insight or 178 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 1: info that I got out of training I went to 179 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: recently that they're working on a diagnosis for narcissistic abuse 180 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 1: syndrome is what they said it might be called. But 181 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: this has become such a thing that we've seen over 182 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: and over in therapy rooms that there's going to be 183 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 1: a diagnosis of it. So it's very serious. And that's 184 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I'm like, we can't just 185 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: throw out this word all the time, because this is 186 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: a serious thing that really hurts people. The point of 187 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: me saying that was, this is a personal disorder that like, 188 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: you have to meet certain criteria to be diagnosed with this. 189 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: I think it's like five of the thirteen pieces, you've 190 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: had five of them. We're not going to go through 191 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: all of those because nobody in the world needs to 192 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: diagnose pot. Yeah, that's not the important but I say 193 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 1: that because I want you to know that this is 194 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: like a serious disorder, like bipolar disorder. I mean, that's 195 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: a mood disorder, but it's an actual diagnosis for people. 196 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: But also people grow around throwing those kind of they're 197 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: so bipolar. Bipolar doesn't actually look like what most people 198 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: think it looks like. So I think that part of 199 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: me wanting to talk about this is there's such a 200 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: stigma attached to all mental health disorders, and I want 201 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: us to be more careful with what we say and 202 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: how we say it. We use the term really often 203 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: to describe anybody who looks self centered as a narcissist. 204 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: The personality sort I want you to know is more 205 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: than that. So for true severe malignant narcissism, pretty dangerous narcissism, 206 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: you're gonna look for two things that are going to 207 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: be pervasive. One is a lack of empathy, so inability 208 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: to care about another person's pain really, which is scary, 209 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: it's so scary to think about. Now, these people can 210 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: look like they have empathy, but they don't feel it, 211 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: so they truly don't feel it. And then the other 212 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: thing is they might purposefully create pain for others. Now, 213 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: both of us have caused pain to other people, Oh absolutely, 214 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 1: but we did not do it on purpose. And these 215 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: people will purposely create pain for others, and they'll use 216 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: other people's disregulation as a way to regulate themselves. Yeah, 217 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: let's give an example. Well, this would be like me 218 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: just teasing you and you just keep going yeah, and 219 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: I'm doing that to gain power and superiority over you 220 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: if I'm the one with the disorder. But me or you, 221 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: we couldn't do that. If we saw somebody in pain, 222 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: we it would We couldn't do that. So these people 223 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: will purposely try to create pain for others, so they 224 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: can rise above. Now, where does this come from? Like 225 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: I said, comes from a wound, a trauma. Now, it's 226 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: not genetic, so well, it's to what we know so far, 227 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: there's been no link to genetics. Now, if you have 228 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: a parent who struggles with this, it could be traits 229 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: or the full blown personality disorder. If you have a 230 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: parent who has that, you could take on some of 231 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: those traits and that could be your wounding that then 232 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: moves you towards developing this disorder yourself. But it's not genetic. 233 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: That would be an environmental trauma. That would be about 234 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: your environment, not your genes. So it's not out there. 235 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: But from what we know now, there's a correlation between 236 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: this disorder and being stuck in a specific stage of 237 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: development due to your trauma and not having all your 238 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: needs met at that stage you can move past it. 239 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,119 Speaker 1: We call that the narcissistic injury, and that's an experience 240 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 1: that injures your pride or your sense of self. And 241 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: the narcissist except so many essays, and I like kind 242 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: of have a lisp, so it's really hard for me 243 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: to take this. I'll never let that go. That's my trauma. 244 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: When my next boyfriend told me that a lisp. Now 245 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: here I am with a podcast, look at it now, Um, okay, 246 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: the narcissist excessive self absorption is a protection against their 247 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: unconscious feelings of an adequacy. So here what I said, unconcious, 248 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: they're not aware, and these people will move towards the 249 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: avoidant side of attachment. And so they're going to be 250 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: the more zipped up kind. People who have avoidant attachment, 251 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: they have feelings, they're just asleep to them. So this 252 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: person they have inadequacy, feelings of insecurity, but they're sleep 253 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: to it. So most of these people show up as very, 254 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: very big and they think they're great, but deep deep down, 255 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: underneath all of the stuff that they put on top 256 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: of their wound, they are pretty insecure people. So these 257 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: people they look big, like from the outside looking in like, 258 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: they look great, And this is somebody that's gonna look 259 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: like a CEO of a company. They're going to be 260 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: like the most fun person in the group of friends. 261 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: They might run a nonprofit and be this great do 262 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: good person. I mean, they might be the president of 263 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: the United States. Maybe we're not diagnosing anybody, but that's 264 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: they're going to be in these big, powerful positions. That's 265 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: not to say that everybody who's in a powerful position 266 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: is a narcissist at all. And I will say, according 267 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: to the research we have now of the people diagnosed 268 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: with the actual personality disorder are men. So we might 269 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: be leaning towards saying men in this podcast, and that's 270 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: just because that's what we're used to seeing the vast majority. Also, 271 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: most people with the personality disorder, they're not going to 272 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: show up in a therapy room because they're generally pretty 273 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: happy with themselves and they don't feel the dysfunction that 274 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: the world feels around them. Do they at all feel 275 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: a need to grow in any sense, Well, they need 276 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: to be bigger because they always want to be on 277 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: the top essentially, so they need to grow in success 278 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: and admiration. This is what's really interesting is they can 279 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: show up as having empathy and being a really great 280 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: person because they want people to think good of them 281 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: and that's what good is. So they can act in 282 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: those ways, but they don't feel that somebody might show 283 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: up in my therapy office because they want to work 284 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: on self development and do all this stuff and blah 285 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. But it's more of a show of like, 286 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to do the right things to look the 287 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: right way, but I'm not going because I really want 288 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: to get into the deep wounds I have and work 289 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: on this really hard stuff. And they probably wouldn't be 290 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: super honest in that room. Most likely not because I 291 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: want to keep their you know, facade up. Of one 292 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: thing I do want to throw in here, as we're 293 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: talking about, this is a big difference between somebody who 294 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: just has traits and somebody who has a personality disorder 295 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: is they might sometimes look very similar. But somebody who 296 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: has just the traits of narcissism and is showing up 297 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: with some trait of that, they have the ability to feel, 298 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: so they have empathy, so they will eventually at some 299 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: point they might apologize or try to work on themselves 300 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: or try to shift or change, And somebody with a 301 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: personality disorder is way less likely to do that because 302 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: the person with traits still can have empathy, they have 303 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: access to it. But somebody with a disorder just doesn't 304 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 1: complete lack. So would you say, and this might be 305 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: too much of a general statement, but someone with the 306 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: actual personality to disorder, would it be harder for them 307 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: to have long term relationships because it's so easy for 308 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: them to discard people that. Yeah, and we're going to 309 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: get into the stages of the relationship and that's one 310 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: of the stage is And that's to say, like not 311 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: just romantic relationships, any kind of relations even thinking friendships, 312 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: Like I think if I were acting out of some 313 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: narcissistic trait and I made someone upset, like I wouldn't 314 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: want to end the friendship with them because they're upset 315 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: with me and be like I want to get that 316 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: help me see which we need that that helps, Yeah, 317 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: that helps us grow and and be different. But these 318 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: people don't need to grow. You need to do something. 319 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're going to get into the stages of that. 320 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: And that's a really good thing to bring up now. 321 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: Like we said, inside of every grandiose narcissist, which is 322 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: somebody who has the typical traits that we see of 323 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: the bigger than because there's different kinds of narcissism that 324 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: we're not going to get into again, inside every one 325 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: of them is a highly insecure child on the outside, 326 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: very charismatic, very charming, and when they show up near 327 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: you and their light of who they are shines on you. 328 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: It feels like the best thing in the whole entire 329 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 1: world is long as you're mirroring back what they want 330 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: you to orror back, then you're good and you feel 331 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: great and they feel great. Now if they're light moves 332 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: away from you, then it gets really scary. And when 333 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: you're in relationships with these people, to me, I think 334 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: it's really sad because me or you who is doesn't 335 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: have this personality disorder. We can be in a relationship 336 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: and we're relating to that person, we're connecting. Somebody with 337 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: the personality disorder is connecting to themselves. So while you're 338 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: connecting to them, they're connecting to them too. Yeah, it's 339 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: not like a I give and I receive like me 340 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: and you can give and receive. They just want to receive. 341 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: So where a lot of people get confused is somebody 342 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: with this personality sorder is not go after week bad 343 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: ikey people. They don't go after people that need to 344 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: be rescued, or they go after people who have something 345 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,160 Speaker 1: that they want. So they're going to go after you 346 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: shine their light on you. And this is where love 347 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: bombing comes in. And you're familiar with love bombing, but 348 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: It usually happens romantic relationships, but it can be in 349 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: any relationship. It's where that light shines on you and 350 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: it feels so good. And we're going to use the 351 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: romantic relationship as the example, but it will look like 352 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: you go on a date with somebody and this person 353 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: is mirroring I mean everything. Your favorite food is their 354 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,160 Speaker 1: favorite food, your favorite music is their favorite music, your 355 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: favorite place to You love road trips, I love road trips. 356 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: You want to move to Canada, so do I Like, 357 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: everything is perfect and it's showering with compliments and gifts 358 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: and oh my gosh, we're soulmates from like the first 359 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: moment we meet, and it just feels so good, almost good, 360 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: too good to be true. And that's a red flag 361 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: for you guys. If you're wondering, like, how do I 362 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: spot this? If you're ever wondering at the beginning of relationship, 363 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: if this is too good to be true, it probably 364 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: is because what they're doing is there somewhat trying to 365 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: like hook you in right, because you might not like 366 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: the person at first. You might find yourselfing like I 367 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: don't know if I really like them, And you go 368 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: on that second date and you're like, all of a sudden, 369 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,360 Speaker 1: I'm in love with this person. What happens They bring 370 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: you the perfect gift to take. It's perfect spots and 371 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: it's not too much. It's like just so because they 372 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: know how to read. These are smart people. They're very smart, 373 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: manipulative types of humans. Yeah, they're not going to come 374 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: across like crazy, crazy and love obsessive. It's going to 375 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: be very normal, appearing to be normal, and they're going 376 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: to show up as somebody who can help you be 377 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: the best version of you. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, 378 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: um okay. Typically good people that they're going after also 379 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: want to become the best version of So we're attracted 380 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: to someone that's gonna make us better. Yes, So I 381 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: want you guys to remember as we go through this 382 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: this these types of people are going to be attracted 383 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: to people who have something that they want. Can we 384 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: kind of give an example of mirroring. So when you 385 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: say that they're going after someone that's going to mirror 386 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: something really good back to them. It could be let's 387 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,719 Speaker 1: just say, in a romantic relationship, someone start to date 388 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: you and they realize, like you have all these great 389 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: friendships and that's what they're looking for is like friendships 390 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: and so like they're trying to get that from you, 391 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: Like that's part of what I would look like. So 392 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: what happens is you end up being an extension of them, 393 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: So at the big didn't have the relationship, the person 394 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: will start to like over idealize you. And when you 395 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: start to show up as a human because they see 396 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: that thing you want that you have and they're like, ah, 397 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna over idealize you to make you hook on 398 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: to me. Generally, this isn't every single time with every 399 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: single human with this, So then you're connected to them. 400 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: But then what happens, because they have a somewhat fantasy 401 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: of you, then you start to show up as human 402 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: real Yeah, and the person with the narcissistic traits or 403 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: more so someundy with a narcissistic personality disorder will try 404 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: to fix you and they'll say things like don't let 405 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: me down, and they can become super embarrassed of you 406 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: if you're not perfect, because you're an extension of them 407 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: and they need you to mirror back to them what 408 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: they want to see in themselves, which is all good, 409 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: all good, yeah, because their pride has been so hurt 410 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 1: that they can't deal with a lot of the insecurities 411 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: that we can deal with normally as a human. It's 412 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: not easy to be insecure, but we don't feel like 413 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: we're going to fall to the ground and die. Like 414 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: I said, they lack the ability to connect in a 415 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: relational way, right, So, like I said, it's not giving 416 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: and receiving, it's just receiving. So if you are in 417 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: this relationship though, and you feel like they are giving, 418 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: what is that actually? Is that just them acting out 419 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: thinking this is what I need to do to keep 420 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: this relationship, or what is that their motivation for that? Forgiving? 421 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: Just to look good? Yeah, and in the beginning, it's 422 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: to keep you around cause it's that love bomb. I'm 423 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: going to take you on these trips and I'll buy 424 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: you these presents. I'm going to look like the best 425 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: person ever, look like the best partner ever, I'm gonna 426 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: look like the best boss ever, I'm gonna look like 427 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: the best everything. And then they also want the outside 428 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: world to see that. Yeah, they got to paint the picture. Yeah, 429 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: they have to paint the picture. It ends up being 430 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: very transactional instead of relational. Now, this is really interesting 431 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: to me and it's I'm going to see how how 432 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: you feel and how you felt this. But people with 433 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: us disorder will take things very personal. So if I 434 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,439 Speaker 1: come home from a hard day at work and I say, oh, 435 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: I have a hard day at work, they won't hear 436 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: you talking about your hard day. They'll hear some kind 437 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: of criticism towards them, like they didn't do enough. They're 438 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: very like I said, they're very sensitive, but they don't 439 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: show up that way, but they are. So it's super 440 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: confusing because you're like, oh, you're this confident person that 441 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: can't be what's happening, and so then you start to 442 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: think that it's something about you. When they're cruel, they 443 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: aren't trying to put you down so they feel better 444 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: about themselves or because they're trying to help you out 445 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: of goodness. They're putting you down because they want to 446 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: fix you. Because again, you're that extension of them, and 447 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: if you mess up, they feel insecure and if you 448 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: don't listen to them, it threatens their authority and they 449 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: like to feel powerful. These people relate to power way 450 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: more than love. And so, like I said, if you 451 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: mess up and you're that extension, they're going to see that, 452 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: and it's going to make them feel super insecure. They're 453 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: not going to like that, and so that comes out 454 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: towards you. Their love is very conditional. Right, you do 455 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: the things I need you to do, and you act 456 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,239 Speaker 1: the way and you mirror the things I need, then 457 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: we'll stay in connection. But anytime you act outside of that, 458 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: things start to get scary. And for somebody who doesn't 459 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: know that they're in a relationship with this somebody with 460 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: this personality disorder, it's so confusing, very because you go 461 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: from this person who was like everything you've ever dreamed of, 462 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: to wait, what's happening? And you trust this person and 463 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:07,879 Speaker 1: you do think that they're good, and you think that 464 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: they're powerful, and you think that they're special too, and 465 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: then they want the best for you, and they want 466 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: the best for you, and so you start to questioning 467 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,959 Speaker 1: yourself and you start getting really insecure about yourself and 468 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: things you might not have ever wondered. I know, for me, 469 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: when I found myself in a relationship with somebody with 470 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: a lot of these traits, and I can't diagnose this person, 471 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: but that a lot of these traits. Once that relationship 472 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: was no longer I found myself asking my friends why 473 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: nobody told me that I was so self selfish and 474 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: apologizing for being so selfish and they're like, you're not. 475 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: I'm like, I have to be right for this to 476 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: have half can't be that this, it can't be anything 477 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: about him. This is I did something, and it can 478 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: really diminish somebody's essentially like self, I mean self esteem, 479 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: but just my sense of self was kind of a 480 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: little bit who you are knowing who I was, Yeah, 481 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: that had never been a question in my head. So, 482 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 1: like I said, it's really dangerous to challenge these people. 483 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: And in a normal relationship, we need to challenge each other, right, 484 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: that's how we grow. Yeah, and fighting and arguing like 485 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: that's healthy. It doesn't end well in these types of relationships, 486 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: and you'll experience something called gas lighting, which that is 487 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: all over Instagram. It is, for sure. It's another trendy, 488 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: trendy word. I'm like, not every time somebody's being an 489 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: asshole or gaslighting you, that's not what. Gaslighting is a 490 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: very specific thing and it comes from a movie we 491 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: decided it was called I think it's just called gaslight. 492 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: Nobody's seen this movie, but this is what's black and white. 493 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: So it comes from a movie in What's Happening is 494 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: um there's a woman in the movie and then there's 495 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: a guy who's dimming gaslights and she's like, oh, the 496 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: lights are DEMI the lights are demming And the guy's like, no, 497 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: they're not. And she's like, yeah they are, and he's like, no, 498 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: they're not. You must be crazy to the point where 499 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: she's like, well, I guess I'm crazy. And that happens 500 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: in relationships with people with narcissistic personality disorder. Now you 501 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: don't have to have this disorder to gaslight somebody, but 502 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: these people do it so well because again, they lack empathy, 503 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: so they don't feel the discomfort that anybody else would feel. Right, 504 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: they don't have the shame or the guilty about buying 505 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: to some No no, no no. So I mean, it 506 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: can look a million different ways. But you can get 507 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 1: into argument, meant with somebody, a healthy argument, or maybe 508 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: you're mad at something that your partner, your boss did, 509 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: and you bring it to them and you try to 510 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: have a discussion and you go in there really upset 511 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: and ready to stand your ground, and all of a sudden, 512 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 1: at the end of the conversation, you're apologizing and crying 513 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: like I'm so sorry. Then like your friends who are 514 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: outside of it are like, what is wrong with you? 515 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: Why did you apologize? And you're like, well, because I 516 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: did X, Y, and Z, and it's like, no, that's 517 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: not true, you didn't do that. So it's it's scary 518 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 1: to be in these relationships because it's really hard to 519 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: know you're in them because you've built that trust with 520 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: that person, but it's not it's not a two way street, 521 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 1: but it feels like a feels like a two way street. 522 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: Another thing to look out for is do I get 523 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: to experience this person's greatness and um, do I get 524 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: to be in this person's greatness and just like get 525 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: to love this person? Or do I have to affirm 526 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: this person's greatness? Very very different. So, because these people 527 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: have this insatiable need to be better or different and 528 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: they don't like to just be seen as part of 529 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 1: the group because that's not good enough for them. They 530 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: don't do things just for the sake of being a 531 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: good human, right, So they're going to do something so 532 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: that you can affirm them for being a good human 533 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: And that can look at a couple of different ways. 534 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: It can look like the person who's donating a million 535 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: dollars to a charity and camera crew comes, they take 536 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: the picture with a big check and it's like, oh, 537 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: he's here's a video and he's like crying in it, 538 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: and he's not doing that because he feels anything so much. 539 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: Or again we're saying men because it's a majority, but 540 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: they're doing that because that's what you need to do 541 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: to look good. That is going to get them the 542 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: praise and affirmation, because then you get the oh my gosh, 543 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: that was so kind or that's so amazing, or you're 544 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: so wonderful. I can't believe you raise that much money. 545 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: Or it can look like in a romantic relationship, it 546 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: can look like somebody taking you on this nice date. 547 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: But it's all about everything that I did in order 548 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: to get this nice day. I had to call three 549 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: months in advance to get this reservation, and they only 550 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: kept the reservation because they found out who I was. 551 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: And you just don't worry about order order whatever you want, 552 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: because I have plenty of money to pay for whatever 553 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: of steak you want or whatever fancy drink. Let's just 554 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: order the whole bottle, not just one drink and you 555 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: don't just get to experience this awesome night. You get 556 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: to experience this awesome night that was made possible by 557 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: this awesome person. It all points back to them. Yeah, 558 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 1: And going back to that lack of empathy part which 559 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: a normal person would be like, wait, this feels like 560 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 1: self righteous and like what I don't I don't want, 561 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: I don't want anybody to know. Why do you keep 562 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: talking about myself? And and you might donate money and 563 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: it's an anonymous check, you know what I mean? Or 564 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: do you have an interview, but you highlight the people 565 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: that helped make it possible and it's not you, it's 566 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: the team that you have. So going back to this 567 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: lack of empathy, it's one thing that keeps us check 568 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: and allows us to know how to treat people kindly 569 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,959 Speaker 1: and fairly. But these people don't see themselves as equal 570 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: as everybody else. They have to they see themselves as larger. Now, 571 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: if I can't acknowledge that I am like other people 572 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: and that other people are like me, I won't have 573 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: tolerance or empathy for others, which gives me license to 574 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: do whatever I want. I mean, could that even go 575 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: as far as saying like I'm above the law. Oh yeah, totally, 576 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: like no rules apply to me. I can do whatever 577 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: I want. That is a really good point. It looks 578 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: like that a lot. Have you experienced that? Yeah, I 579 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: think I've experienced it in weird ways of like manipulation 580 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: of kind of finding loopholes to go about making certain 581 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: you know, deals or whatnot, or using other authorities to 582 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: kind of try to prove their point. And it's like 583 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: they get to bypass the fear that a normal person 584 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: would have in that because they have that special fantasy 585 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: of who they are. Yeah, so let's go back to 586 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: what the relationship will look like. These types of people 587 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: have these three characteristics in relationships when they have a 588 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: hard time apologizing. So, um, they can apologize, but it's 589 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry I did that, but or they use the 590 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: apology to manipulate, right, it's a way to get something. 591 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: They have a hard time expressing gratitude because to accept gratitude, 592 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: you would have to admit that somebody else has impacted 593 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: or influenced me in a positive way, rather me and 594 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: impacting your influence you. So it's not so much I'm 595 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: grateful for you being my life, right, you're grateful to 596 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: have me in your life. If I'm the person with 597 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: all of these traits, they have a hard time asking 598 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: for help, and then um, they have a hard time 599 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: listening because listening involves intimacy. Intimacy is actually really scary 600 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: for these people. It gives an anxiety because it puts 601 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: attention back on other people and not themselves. What what 602 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: a way to live? And I'm glad you said that, 603 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: because as much as these kinds of humans are really 604 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: harmful and can be really scary and they can cause 605 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: a lot of damage to people, we have to remember 606 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: that this comes from a wound, a childhood wound, and 607 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: it's not a great way to live. And I have 608 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: that empathy for them. I feel sad because I want 609 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: people to be able to move past their trauma and 610 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: their wounds, and these people just can't do it, and 611 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: so they look like they're living their best life ever, 612 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: but they're not. I was about to say, do you 613 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: think they feel that Do they feel that weight of loneliness, 614 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: that weight of emptiness. I can't necessarily say that they 615 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: do or don't. Most likely not, And that's one of 616 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: the big differences with the traits in the personality disorder 617 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: is somebody with traits definitely fulfiel it. They definitely will 618 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: feel lonely, they totally and they don't always know what 619 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: they're doing. They'll do some kind of manipulation as a 620 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: way to feel better about themselves because they feel insecure. 621 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: They don't do it maliciously and they don't not planned out. 622 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: Somebody with this personality disorder, it's very manipulative. It's they 623 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: know what they're doing, they know how to get their 624 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: needs met. I mean, they're not gas lighting on accident, 625 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: they're gas lighting on my purpose. Yeah, so that's a 626 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: big distinction that I do want people to hear. Now, 627 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: let's talk about what the relationships feel like and going 628 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: back into what they look like on the inside. So 629 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: again in the beginning, it feels great, it feels too 630 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: good to be true, and there's three things that end 631 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: up happening. They will idealize you, and that's that love 632 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: bomb part. And again when I say love bomb any 633 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: kind of relationship, and then they will start to devalue 634 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: you once you start showing up as human. And then 635 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: once you stop offering them that thing that they wanted 636 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: in you, they'll discard you and they'll go get it 637 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,239 Speaker 1: somewhere else. It's like they don't need to put up 638 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: with you. It's like, again going back to the avoiding attachment, 639 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: it's like when it becomes too much work, it's like, 640 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: this is too much for me, these feelings are too much. 641 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,959 Speaker 1: Go go, go, get out, and they they essentially can 642 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: start over. And so that's where you asked in the beginning, 643 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: like is it hard for these people to have relationships? Yeah, 644 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: it is. Again, that's what happens in the relationship idealize, 645 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: devalue discard. We're gonna say so, I was just gonna say, 646 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: and the devaluing usually starts when let's just for no other, 647 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: Like it doesn't have to be in a romantic relationship. 648 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: But the quote unquote honeymoon phase is over, like over, 649 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: it's not coming back. And the problem, this is a 650 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: big issue with the partner or the employee or the friend, 651 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: is because we knew that they once acted that way. 652 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: It's like, but I know they have a good heart. 653 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: I saw it. I know that they're good and I 654 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: know they don't mean that like they're just having a 655 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: hard time. They're going through a stressful part of life. 656 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: Like I know we can get back there. And that's where, 657 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: like the part, we get stuck because we idealize the 658 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: honeymoon face, but it's a honeymoon face. It is over. 659 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: We are not there and we're not going back, and 660 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: it's really hard to accept that. For me, I ended 661 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: up kind of in a cycle of like it would 662 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: be really good and the would be really bad, and 663 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: be good and then be really bad until you get 664 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: to a point where you're just like, I don't know 665 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: that I can fix this. And you know what that 666 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: is is that right, well, you can't fix it, so 667 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: thank you. You can't fix it and it's not yours 668 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: to fix. But what that is is there's this like 669 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: dance of it's it's really great, and then you start 670 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: to show up as human and then they shut that 671 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: down and they devalue you. But then they come back 672 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: around and they're really great again because in their head 673 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: they're still want to get that thing for you, and 674 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: it happens over and over until it is not worth 675 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: it for them, all that energy, until they see that 676 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: you are showing up as your own person and you 677 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: aren't mirroring what they need from you. Then they're going 678 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: to say this isn't worth it anymore. Goodbye, you're fired. 679 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: I'm breaking up with you. I never loved you. I 680 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 1: don't want to be your friend anymore. Like what, they 681 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: will cut you off. And that is another big difference 682 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: between having traits and having a personality disorder. Somebody with 683 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 1: a personality disorder cuts off relationships. Somebody with traits knows 684 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: that there is capable of rupture and relationship and repair, 685 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: which is a really important thing to have for all 686 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: healthy relationships. We need to be able to get in 687 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: spots where we fight or again argue or get our 688 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: feelings hurt, and then there's a genuine apology and we 689 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: repair the relationship. Intimacy grows through conflict, and somebody with 690 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: just traits is capable of that. Somebody with a personality disorder, 691 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 1: it's rupture cut off. If there's a lot of cut 692 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: off in somebody's life, that's a red flag. Yeah, I 693 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: think that's good. So for me, I think what some 694 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: of that looked like and why I kept going back 695 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: in the manipulation around it. It It was like if something 696 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: happened we had a disagreement to be like, oh well 697 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: this is what you need to work on, and so 698 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: for me, it's like, oh, this is a chance for 699 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: me to improve myself and like it was a blind 700 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: spot that I had. I didn't know that I had 701 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,879 Speaker 1: an issue with that. Let me, let me work on that, 702 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: and you know what, and a healthy relationship, that's great. 703 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,759 Speaker 1: The issue is they are not trying to help you. 704 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: They are trying to help themselves, and that's a big distinguisher. 705 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: The person in the relationship can't always see that, right. 706 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: And what I do want to offer is if you 707 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: feel like this might be something that you're a you're experiencing, 708 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: ask your friends who knew you before this relationship started. 709 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: Ask your friends what they see, because they want what's 710 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: best for you. And if they don't, you need new friends. Amen. Yeah, 711 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: And so if your friends are saying, ah, this seems 712 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: a little bit off for that really caught me off 713 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: guard when he said that, or does that usually if 714 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: you're and then if you're afraid to tell um what's happening, 715 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: also red flag, red flag. There is a very there's 716 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: a healthy balance of learning what your blind spots are 717 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: and then constantly being berated for things that aren't necessarily wrong. Yeah, 718 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: And I think that if you're told over and over 719 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 1: and over and over and over and over again, the 720 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: same thing from somebody about like you're doing this wrong, 721 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: or this is you, this is you. You start to 722 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: really believe that, and so it can be hard to 723 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: trust your friends when they say that's not true. Yes, 724 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: but you have to remember those friends want what's best 725 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: for you. I'm talking about people that have seen you 726 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: longer than this relationship correct something else. Another way that 727 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 1: I have kind of fallen into that chap is the 728 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: person with narcissi traits. In a couple of different relationships 729 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: I've had, they've brought in another authority figure to kind 730 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: of try to manipulate me into thinking that I need 731 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,720 Speaker 1: to change or improve word to believe whatever they're saying. 732 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: And that can look like a therapist, a coach, or 733 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: I've even had someone used scripture to like kind of 734 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: prove spirit yes, what they are trying to say to 735 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 1: get me to believe them. So, I mean, it can 736 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: look like anything really, And when they bring in an 737 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: authority figure, you as the person who wants to grill 738 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: and be better, it's like you're like, thank you, yes, 739 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: thank you for showing me all the ways that I suck. 740 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: You are so again, you're so wonderful. And so if 741 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: this person is offering bringing in let's use therapists. If 742 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: they're offering you, whether it's at work and they're like, here, 743 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: have I'm gonna pay for your therapy or for it's 744 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: a relationship, but they're like, you can't afford therapy, I'm 745 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: gonna get you the best therapist ever, by the way 746 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: she costs. Don't worry about it. I'll do this because 747 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 1: I care so much about you that, yes, be careful 748 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: with that. That can be a really kind thing, but 749 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: if it can also be something that is used to 750 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: show you that you're the one to problems. Make sure 751 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: they're going to therapy too. Yeah. Yeah, if they're going 752 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: to ask you to do it, make sure that they're 753 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,919 Speaker 1: willing to do the same thing. Yeah. And so going 754 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: back to the relationship and how it kind of falls 755 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: apart when the person with the disorder, when they end 756 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: up getting a sense that you're really connected to them, right, 757 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: because again they're motivated by power, you're motivated by love, 758 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: and they're more avoidant. This could be an avoidant or 759 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: anxious or secure person, doesn't matter what attachment style you have. 760 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 1: When you start to get vulnerable and and need from 761 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: them in that relationship, they're going to not be able 762 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: to tolerate you. And that's when the devaluing really will start, 763 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,959 Speaker 1: and the criticizing will really start, and the critiquing will 764 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: really start, and it's going to be mean a lot 765 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: of times it'll start just like as little digs, and 766 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,799 Speaker 1: it will end up being it can be really mean. 767 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: So it could really start the moment you start to 768 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: get comfortable and open up to this person. Yeah, so 769 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: at that point, then you start to become feeling a 770 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: little crazy, right, your self esteem is hurt if there's 771 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: an affair, it's like it's my fault, like it's something 772 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: that I did, and your your self scene will just 773 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: go down and down and down, and then you won't 774 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: know what's happening you. You might end up being depressed, frustrated, 775 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: you might be scared of this person. You won't know 776 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: what really to do. And then what will happen is 777 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 1: you'll show up that way. The person with a disorder 778 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: will discard you and they're gonna go find somebody else, 779 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 1: somebody rich or smarter, younger, quote unquote, prettier, more powerful, powerful, Yes, 780 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: And it might not look more powerful or better to you. 781 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: But again, it's whatever that they're looking for, and then 782 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: you're going to feel like you're just like thrown out 783 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,759 Speaker 1: like trash, like essentially trash, and oh my god that 784 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 1: which that makes me think? I said that when I 785 00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: got out of a relationship with somebody with many of 786 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: these traits, I literally said, I don't understand how you 787 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: can just throw me out like I'm your trash, like 788 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: you have no care, like you're treating you're treating me 789 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,960 Speaker 1: like trash. This person and I loved just knit and 790 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: they were fine. Fine. These people will be show up 791 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: as fine without you, if not better, because you kind 792 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: of become like a weight to them. Yeah you yes, 793 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: and then you end up not knowing who you are. Yeah, 794 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: we saved this for the end. I don't know why. 795 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,440 Speaker 1: But who's susceptible to these relationships? The question is what 796 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: do you think? I mean, you know, but what did 797 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: you think? You know? Because we've recorded this seven times 798 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,879 Speaker 1: when I've done my own research on this whole thing, 799 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: So what did you think? Like what kind of people 800 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: were susceptible? I thought it was weak people, people that 801 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: are easily manipulated, people that don't have sense, don't have 802 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: don't have a sense of self. People are servers or 803 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,839 Speaker 1: like feel like they need to do something for people 804 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: all the time. Like, yeah, that's what And that's why 805 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 1: I thought I ended up in a relationship with someone 806 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: with these traits because I'm weak. It's you. Yeah. Well, 807 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 1: the truth is this is not going to feel great 808 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: to anybody, But anybody can become a victim to these 809 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: kinds of relationships because again, you don't see all of 810 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: this stuff in the beginning of these relationships. You don't 811 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: see it. You see the goodness, and you see the greatness. 812 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 1: And who doesn't want to be around somebody good and great? Yeah, 813 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: and who doesn't want to be love bombed? Well, you 814 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: don't want to be loved bombed. But it does feel 815 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: it feels really really good. And so now that is 816 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: to say, if we have underlying insecurities or own trauma 817 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: around relationships and power or there's a difference between who 818 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: is susceptible to being attracted to these people and who 819 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: stays in the relationship, that's where the most important information 820 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: comes in right here. So one, we know what it 821 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: feels like, we know how to spot it. We we've 822 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: talked about all of that. We know who's susceptible. We 823 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,560 Speaker 1: know people that have their own woundings in relationships will 824 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: stay in these longer and have a harder time moving away. 825 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,080 Speaker 1: So how do you get out for those people? One? 826 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,319 Speaker 1: Educating this this right here, This is why I really 827 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,439 Speaker 1: wanted to do this, because a lot of us don't 828 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 1: know what's going on, and we think it's us, And 829 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm here to say that it's not always you. Sometimes 830 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: it is us. Sometimes we need to go therapy and 831 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: work on our ship, and sometimes it's not really us, 832 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: it's what's happening around us. And so the first thing 833 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: is educating on what is narcissism, what is the difference 834 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: between the traits? And can I be with somebody that 835 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: just has some traits percent if you want to be 836 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: with that person, Yeah, can I be with somebody who 837 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: has full blown narcissistic personality disorder? Sure you can. I 838 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 1: just don't know that it's going to be a life 839 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: that you're really want wanting, And so figure out why 840 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: you feel so crazy the first step, and then the 841 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,360 Speaker 1: next step I would say, go to a therapist and 842 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: seek out therapy or help with somebody who's familiar with 843 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: narcissism specifically, not everybody knows a lot about it. And 844 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: when you go to school to become a therapist, you 845 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: get trained on essentially small bits of everything, and then 846 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 1: you go and find specialties and you research more and 847 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: you learn more and go to trainings on more stuff 848 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: you are familiar with or that you're interested in. So 849 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: find somebody that can help with that. How would you 850 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: know with will some therapists put that, I would just 851 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,919 Speaker 1: ask It might be in there if they're a relationship, 852 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: if they deal with a lot of relationships, they probably do. 853 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,279 Speaker 1: But I would ask, hey, have have you worked with 854 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 1: this um? Is this something that you feel comfortable with? 855 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: Or if not, do you have any referrals for somebody who? Okay? 856 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 1: And I want you guys to know that no matter 857 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 1: how wounded or bad or icky you feel, you can always, always, always, 858 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: always come back to the truth of who you are 859 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: always And a lot of times we say things like 860 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: I lost myself in that relationship, right, I lost who 861 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,160 Speaker 1: I was? And I don't think we necessarily lose ourselves. 862 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: What we do is we we bury parts of ourselves 863 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: to protect us. Yet we bury we forget yeah to 864 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,319 Speaker 1: protect us in those relationships, and that's what we have 865 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: therapy to help take us out that hole. That's really it. 866 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: The what I want to end on is how you 867 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: get out of these relationships is not by fixing them. Right. Yeah, 868 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: So these people might not ever change. And I always 869 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: say that when people are going into relationships and starting relationships, 870 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: whatever kind of relationship, it is when you start to 871 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: feel who they are and you start to get a 872 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 1: sense of who they are, you have to ask yourself, 873 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,279 Speaker 1: can I accept all of this? If they change, that 874 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,480 Speaker 1: would be great, But if they didn't, can I accept 875 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: in this this is what I want? And that's the 876 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: same thing with these types of relationships, whether it be 877 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: a boss, a coach, or a boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. You 878 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: cannot ever go into a relationship. I don't suggest going 879 00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,479 Speaker 1: into a relationship hoping that things will change. And these 880 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 1: people most likely don't want to be fixed, they don't 881 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: want the help. They think they're wonderful. They think they're wonderful, 882 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,399 Speaker 1: and it's really hard for these people to really go 883 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,839 Speaker 1: shift because that's a question I get all the time, 884 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: like will they change? They have the do they have 885 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: the possibility to change? Everybody has the possibility to change. 886 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,280 Speaker 1: But it's so unlikely because for them to change would 887 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,560 Speaker 1: force them to access the scariest thing in the whole 888 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: entire world. It's like asking me to go jump into 889 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,640 Speaker 1: a giant pit of snakes and spiders. I'm not doing that. 890 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't care what it would get me. I'm not 891 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,759 Speaker 1: doing it. And so that's what it would be like 892 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: for somebody with this personality disorder to go in a 893 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,480 Speaker 1: therapy room and be honest and unzipped themselves and unzipped themselves. 894 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:44,160 Speaker 1: I can't tell you what it feels like to be 895 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,719 Speaker 1: these people if you're not that person. But it is 896 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 1: very somewhat similar to somebody who has an avoidant attachment 897 00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 1: style who comes to therapy and they start to feel 898 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: things and they're like, this is the worst thing ever. 899 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: Why am I doing this? You're a horrible therapist. You're 900 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: making this word and they have to there's a period 901 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: of time or all they want to do is run away, 902 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,400 Speaker 1: and it would be like that time. See, So, well, 903 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: what do you say to people that are they have 904 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,920 Speaker 1: a family member with these traits and they're kind of 905 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:18,479 Speaker 1: forced to be in relationship with them. Boundaries, Boundaries, Really, 906 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: if you don't want to cut off that sometimes I 907 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,319 Speaker 1: will say you have to this relationship, you can't. And 908 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: it's not cut off in the way that somebody with 909 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: his personality order would cut you off and leave. It's 910 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: a boundary like this is actually not healthy for me, 911 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,359 Speaker 1: and it's really hard boundaries. It can be cut off, 912 00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,279 Speaker 1: but sometimes it can just be Okay, I need to 913 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: set some internal boundaries. When I start to feel X, 914 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: Y and Z, I know that's my cue to leave, 915 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: and I have permission to do that. I don't go 916 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: to certain events or certain places with these people, or 917 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: maybe I only spend time with them in a group. Yeah, 918 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: I think that's great. It can be different for every person. 919 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: And so guys, if you have any questions, you can 920 00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,320 Speaker 1: send them to Catherine at You Need Theory podcast dot com. 921 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,279 Speaker 1: And yeah, I hope this was helpful. Do you have 922 00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: anything you want to say? I didn't say this, but 923 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: if you want to follow Kelen, do want to follow 924 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: any of us? Actually, if you would like to follow me, 925 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,239 Speaker 1: I'm at cat dot de fata. If you want to 926 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: follow the podcast is at You Need Therapy podcast, and 927 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: if you want to follow Kellen, who is now a 928 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: regular but I'm not a therapist. I feel like that 929 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 1: needs to be known. Ye. Yeah, she's just a human 930 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: with feelings. Um, you can follow me at k E 931 00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: L L y n j O Kelly, Kelen Joe. All right, well, 932 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,520 Speaker 1: thank you for being here, and again, if you guys 933 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: have questions, UM, let us know. If you like the episode, 934 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: let us know and be safe out there. Guys, do 935 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,759 Speaker 1: you feel crazy? It might not be It may not 936 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:37,320 Speaker 1: be you