Speaker 1: All right, everybody, this is the Meat Eater Podcast coming
Speaker 1: to recorded from the Yano Esticado or Staked Planes of Texas.
Speaker 1: We're in a canyon called Ransom Canyon, which is a
Speaker 1: sweet name, in a rental house that has a lot
Speaker 1: of personal flourishes of the owner around it. We're down here.
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not. We're gonna We're not gonna talk
Speaker 1: about why we're down here too much yet, because we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about that at another point. Um has to
Speaker 1: do the big tall bird. It tastes real good. Um. Instead,
Speaker 1: we're talking about right now. It's something that that I've
Speaker 1: been troubled by and puzzled over and anguished over my
Speaker 1: entire life. And that is the purpose and functionality. And
Speaker 1: also some practical business happened to do with hunting dogs.
Speaker 1: And I've always maintained that dudes who hunt with dogs
Speaker 1: like dogs more than hunting. And I have a couple
Speaker 1: of dog a couple of dog experts sitting here today.
Speaker 1: And also, uh, you're honestly tell us your own a dog? Us? Nope.
Speaker 1: And also a man who has never even owned a dog,
Speaker 1: how have you never owned a dog? We had one
Speaker 1: growing up, so the family dogs. I didn't really I'm
Speaker 1: counting that. And then when I got married, I got
Speaker 1: a two for one package. But she was just like
Speaker 1: a house dog. She was a family dog. What's the
Speaker 1: mean to get two for one package? I got a
Speaker 1: dog with the marriage? Where is it? Dog? Now? She
Speaker 1: passed away from what old age? Alright? So ye, honest lie,
Speaker 1: he's actually had several dogs. Um, they're all dead now.
Speaker 1: And we're also joined right now by Ronnie Bam Um,
Speaker 1: who's the main dog guy that I know, Like, like,
Speaker 1: most of what I know about dogs, besides just dogs
Speaker 1: I've owned, has come from Ronnie and Ronnie Tell, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have you talked about Ronnie like you Ronnie judges
Speaker 1: dogs and breeds dogs. Yeah, used to breed these really
Speaker 1: violent dogs, at least not call them violent, but anyway,
Speaker 1: mean spirited. I started out like not pit bowls. But
Speaker 1: when I first moved to Michigan twenty six seven years ago,
Speaker 1: I got a German short hair and it was a
Speaker 1: nice dog and you know, a little hyper strong, little
Speaker 1: little goofy. And I didn't know objection about training. I
Speaker 1: I couldn't get the dog to sit, but I but
Speaker 1: you wanted at four hunting. Yeah, And this dog was
Speaker 1: a good grouse dog and a good woodcock dog, and
Speaker 1: I took it to South Dakota. But other than that,
Speaker 1: I was just I got lucky. Just this dog just
Speaker 1: like oh, out of the box. It just did everything
Speaker 1: you mean sigon No, No, this is queeny long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the white and brown. So that wasn't the violent kind. No.
Speaker 1: And then when I was a pointer, yeah, it's a point.
Speaker 1: All my dogs have been pointing. You've always been into points,
Speaker 1: Like I want a real quick hunt dogs occurring what
Speaker 1: three creditories? Let's say you got just just like like
Speaker 1: laid us out. Basically you got pointers, retrievers, and trackers.
Speaker 1: Is that how you can do what we call them
Speaker 1: pointers flushers? And then there'd be tracking dogs, which would
Speaker 1: be lion dogs or coon dogs, dogs bare dogs. So pointers,
Speaker 1: flushers and trackers it's fair to say, yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: fair all right. And you've always been into the pointers
Speaker 1: and that's good because I know it adds into the
Speaker 1: flushing break retrievers, retrievers. But as as far as the
Speaker 1: field work, it's a flushing dog, yeah, yeah. He mainly
Speaker 1: uses it for it to go pick up dead stuff.
Speaker 1: That's which and and we'll get to this. In my
Speaker 1: opinion that the dog can do is I would leave
Speaker 1: it in its kennel so I couldn't find something, and
Speaker 1: I would go home and get it and have it
Speaker 1: find it. Yeah, yeah, all right. But anyways, so your dog,
Speaker 1: you're don you're doing like your your life through dogs.
Speaker 1: I made one of those mistakes like I got like
Speaker 1: I jumped in with both feet and I started reading
Speaker 1: too many articles and I got a German wire haired pointer.
Speaker 1: That dog hated me. It was a good hunter, but
Speaker 1: it had no cop No, no, this is zon This
Speaker 1: is the way before you met Zagon. His name was
Speaker 1: Hasko is a black wire hair which is a little rare.
Speaker 1: At that time, he had all the talent in the
Speaker 1: world and I had no skill level to train the obedience.
Speaker 1: Some dogs when a really high desire and really there's
Speaker 1: a top shelf dog. It needed to be It needed
Speaker 1: to be told who was alpha. It needed a boss,
Speaker 1: and that I can't keep my wife listened too bad
Speaker 1: dog listen to me. This dog. I took this dog
Speaker 1: to Canada when he was like four or five years
Speaker 1: old to hunt sharp tailed grouse and I only shot
Speaker 1: grouse over my buddies. Griffin, my dog hunted like over
Speaker 1: there and over there and shot retreat birds for other people.
Speaker 1: The dog hated me. That's when my that's funny because
Speaker 1: my hate of hunting dogs, my my kind of hate
Speaker 1: of hunting dogs comes from people telling me throughout my life.
Speaker 1: This is going back to high school. People be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I got this great hunting dog. We're gonna take my
Speaker 1: great hunting dog out and go hunt. And you open
Speaker 1: the door or open the back of the truck, and
Speaker 1: that's some of a bitch takes off and he's like, yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: I can't contest that he's not a great honting dog
Speaker 1: who knows what he's doing wherever he is. He might
Speaker 1: be hunting up a storm, but it's not happening around me,
Speaker 1: right right. And then you spend your whole time trying
Speaker 1: to get the dog back in the truck and hollering
Speaker 1: at it and blowing a whistle, and it's it's aggravating you.
Speaker 1: You were with me with some of the dogs I
Speaker 1: have remember something. Yeah, your dogs now are different, right right?
Speaker 1: But then you got into the mean ones. That was
Speaker 1: the German wire hair and and those dogs are meant
Speaker 1: for killing. They're very good at it. They would kill
Speaker 1: a raccoon. See in Germany, when they started the versatile breeds,
Speaker 1: the wire hair was put together. It was a poodle Pointer,
Speaker 1: which is a poodle, but it's a another wire haired dog,
Speaker 1: Stickle her short hair, and um, I can't remember the
Speaker 1: other breed. But anyway, there was like four basic breeds
Speaker 1: put in there. And they wanted a dog that would
Speaker 1: not only you know, point a bird. They wanted to
Speaker 1: track blood. And because everything was privately owned all the
Speaker 1: biggest states in Europe, only the wealthy hunted back in
Speaker 1: the eighty and they wanted the dog to kill a
Speaker 1: poor guy if they caught him hunting on their land. No, no,
Speaker 1: the dogs like people, they do but what they were
Speaker 1: expected to do, and they still do. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to say a secret society dog club and I
Speaker 1: won't mention it, but they this breed a dog. If
Speaker 1: you have one that still registered in Berlin, it has
Speaker 1: to kill before it's allowed to breed a full grown raccoon.
Speaker 1: Where do they get the raccoons by itself? No help
Speaker 1: for the owner, No no, no, no, I mean no no.
Speaker 1: The dogs they trap a raccoon and I have a
Speaker 1: hard trap. This raccoon's in Europe. No, No, but there's
Speaker 1: there's uh, there's a there's a similar The point is
Speaker 1: here we talk here. Yeah, it's like I think it's
Speaker 1: a guinea pig. They have to killing guinea pig. No. No,
Speaker 1: what they've done is they've used a raccoon here because
Speaker 1: that's what we have here. They but the point was
Speaker 1: that dog was expected to get rid of vermin out
Speaker 1: on these estates. Tunny if they come across the skunk,
Speaker 1: a polecat, whatever they call me, anything that's gonna eat
Speaker 1: birds exactly, anything that they basically made this like sterile
Speaker 1: environment where game birds and game animals, rabbits and game
Speaker 1: animals would flourish. By that dog, it might have done it.
Speaker 1: I mean they've been doubly running down the woods, going
Speaker 1: through looking for grouse and stuff, and all of a sudden, wham,
Speaker 1: there's a raccoon that was like nested up by a
Speaker 1: log or a skunk. One bite on the back of
Speaker 1: the neck, and that was desirable. That's what the Germans wanted.
Speaker 1: Doesn't work so good. When you come to America, you
Speaker 1: go to a farmer, knock on his door and it
Speaker 1: takes two of his house or his yard cats out
Speaker 1: of his bar and it was his best mousing cat.
Speaker 1: So but anyway, so I had to desire to him
Speaker 1: headstrong question about the raccoons. That's some hardcore ship because
Speaker 1: Florida pig hunting, we saw a peg of dogs fighting raccoon. Well,
Speaker 1: that that was a pussy dog. These were one of
Speaker 1: those dogs get gouged bad by a pig. But still
Speaker 1: I'm saying, that's amazing that they killed. But what I'm
Speaker 1: saying is to remember there's a lot of German wire
Speaker 1: hares in this country. There's different registrates with him. If
Speaker 1: you stay to this one format, it's called vd D
Speaker 1: G n A, And if you stay that format, your
Speaker 1: dog has to pass certain performance tests before you're allowed
Speaker 1: to breed the dog, and the dog has to be
Speaker 1: in front of a breed warden to make sure it's
Speaker 1: the write height, the right size of teeth. If the
Speaker 1: coat's not right, they'll only let you bring it to
Speaker 1: a coat that's gonna compliment it. It's it's how do
Speaker 1: I say, It's like a lot of whiskey whiskey tube mentality,
Speaker 1: and that's the way there. And those dogs that I
Speaker 1: thought I wanted and I stuck with for fifteen eighteen years. Um,
Speaker 1: it wasn't more than I could handle, but it was
Speaker 1: like a penis extension dog. No, it wasn't my Corvette.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a Corvette dog or nothing like that, but
Speaker 1: it was I thought it would be cool to have
Speaker 1: a dog that could do all that. But you didn't
Speaker 1: realize how nasty Dick could get sometimes. Yeah, like that's
Speaker 1: what it really meant. Yeah, like my buddies dog come
Speaker 1: off the tailgate. I'm putting a collar on my dog.
Speaker 1: He did the most dogs sniff aster or at least
Speaker 1: tiptoe and look at each other before they fight. This
Speaker 1: dog just jumped off the tailgate. When I was like,
Speaker 1: you're so embarrassed, You're like so anyway, So that that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's where I That was my predominant breed for the
Speaker 1: center of my dog year. And at that time, you
Speaker 1: were involved with the same organization, right, the same organization.
Speaker 1: It's called NAVDA North American Versal Hunting Dog Association. And
Speaker 1: what we have we haven't really even introduced at our
Speaker 1: net yet, but just real quick, what's the organization you're
Speaker 1: involved in? American Counnel Club a k C as a judge.
Speaker 1: As a judge is what I'm associated with it. But
Speaker 1: that's what you I mean, you sort of measure dogs
Speaker 1: by that standard, by the hot test standard. Yes, that
Speaker 1: there's also field trials have you heard of? I mean,
Speaker 1: are you aware of North American Dog Association with a
Speaker 1: lot of guys that have pointers too, So so NAVDA.
Speaker 1: You're involved in NAVDA now, but you were involved in
Speaker 1: NAVIT when you had wire hairs, right even before I
Speaker 1: became a judge form I was involved with them and
Speaker 1: you know, try to learn and clean everything I could
Speaker 1: from the other trainers and the other breeders and everything.
Speaker 1: But um and that, like all the dogs that you're
Speaker 1: talking that you've talked about Queen, Yeah, was what queens?
Speaker 1: A short hair then a German wire hair hasko in
Speaker 1: Sigon and and now the new kind of dogs you're
Speaker 1: tangled up with have all fallen under. Versatile hunting dog
Speaker 1: versatil hunting dog is a dog that, if you look
Speaker 1: it up in a dictionary, it's a dog that's gonna
Speaker 1: hunt and point and do work before and after the
Speaker 1: shot on landing on water. That's basically the description of it.
Speaker 1: So what we what we want is a dog that
Speaker 1: will basically performing any terrain. And if water is the terrain,
Speaker 1: water is a terrain. What's that? All trained dog? I
Speaker 1: didn't get that so real quick, rattle off a handful
Speaker 1: of species, it would be a T D S and then, um,
Speaker 1: what kind of dog you're messing around with? Now? Well?
Speaker 1: The most common ones everybody knows of German short hairs,
Speaker 1: English pointers, Brittany's English setters, uh, Poodle pointers, vislas, a
Speaker 1: lot of fiashless getting real popular. Monster Landers, which is
Speaker 1: a like a setter looking dog from Germany. There's I
Speaker 1: think twenty two of them now in our registry. And
Speaker 1: naptists I can't think of every is a wimber whiner
Speaker 1: in there, wine writers in there. Also. This gal used
Speaker 1: to live down the road. Do you remember the Johnson
Speaker 1: family sort of lived across Middle Lake from my sister. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they had a dog that they named Nipper, a winmer
Speaker 1: whiner named Nipper, but it would always bite people, and
Speaker 1: they got to think that the reason that bit people
Speaker 1: because his dog's name was Nipper and he was just
Speaker 1: fulfilling his name. And then they changed his name to Bowser.
Speaker 1: Did it help. I can't remember, but I was a
Speaker 1: personal hunting dog or not. No, it's there. There they
Speaker 1: are in the they are in the Basically all the
Speaker 1: European breeds that point are considered versatile hunting dogs. They're not.
Speaker 1: Over the years, a lot of them become specialist dogs.
Speaker 1: So they like, like an English center is going to
Speaker 1: pretty much be your predominant Grousewood's dog up in the north.
Speaker 1: A pointer we're in Texas, right, and a pointer is
Speaker 1: you going to be a predominant bird down here in
Speaker 1: Texas for quail? And because it's a shorter coded dog
Speaker 1: is not gonna get hot you know, it's uh, that
Speaker 1: would be pronounced. They are still in di versatile category,
Speaker 1: but for generations they've been bred as a specialist. So
Speaker 1: to take one and transition it into a water dog
Speaker 1: is a little more difficult than it is. But to
Speaker 1: transition any versatile dog into a water dog, you just
Speaker 1: take their field desire and push it into the water.
Speaker 1: They find that the water has the animals in it,
Speaker 1: just like the field has the animals, and they're just
Speaker 1: excited as hell to go out into a Martian look
Speaker 1: for a duck. But they're probably not equipped to stay warm. No,
Speaker 1: that's a fault with them because very few of them
Speaker 1: have a really good dual coat that will protect them
Speaker 1: in cold, cold seal. Yeah, yeah, they'll come out of
Speaker 1: the water. Look, I don't need at all. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: we're gonna tell no. But I got one last thing
Speaker 1: for you though, the dogs you're into now, which is
Speaker 1: a reasonable dog, right, it's kind of dog. Does faith
Speaker 1: Hill still have one? Yes, they have like three or
Speaker 1: four of them. Yeah. I don't lust after women besides
Speaker 1: my wife, but that is don't. But um, I go.
Speaker 1: I go to Las Vegas every year for this thing,
Speaker 1: and for the last like two years in a row,
Speaker 1: and all the elevators there's an ad for a faith
Speaker 1: Hill concert m and it's just such a it's like
Speaker 1: such an intoxicating ad campaign. I have no no desire.
Speaker 1: What's over to go senior in concert. But when I'm
Speaker 1: standing in the elevator, which is all you do in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, right up down the elevator, Um, she's always
Speaker 1: advertising there and I'm always looking at her, thinking about
Speaker 1: your dog, because he told me that she has one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she has several of her. I think it's Tim's more
Speaker 1: than hers. But something is that why you sell your
Speaker 1: dogs so fast, like before they even hit the ground
Speaker 1: out of the hardly anybody knows they have them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the Brocco people have them. But no, but
Speaker 1: so Ronnie's now'll tangled up with a dog called a
Speaker 1: Italian brocco, Brocco Italiana, Brocco Italiano depends on how you
Speaker 1: want to say it. And it's a very hondy looking dog.
Speaker 1: It's a very when people see it. When I'm in Virginia,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bear hunters in Virginia, like more
Speaker 1: bear hunter there's more bar in Virginia than any place
Speaker 1: I've ever been. And people because I was at Prince
Speaker 1: Wales Island, your and people will come up to my
Speaker 1: external dog box and they'll be standing by my tailgate.
Speaker 1: What kind of bear dog is that? God, I've never
Speaker 1: seen one orange before. And I just say Italian pointer
Speaker 1: because they're like rocco what I leave that out. But
Speaker 1: it's just a it's a versatile dog, but it was
Speaker 1: really never bred for the versatility in Italy. It was
Speaker 1: pretty much an upland bird. But then again, so we're
Speaker 1: most English pointers and that's a dog you could actually
Speaker 1: bring into your house without killing your kids. It yeah,
Speaker 1: and it won't. It doesn't kill animals, it doesn't. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have that fur drive because the Italians over
Speaker 1: all these centuries just wanted to hit birds with them,
Speaker 1: so they use these dogs. I understand. I've never seen it,
Speaker 1: never been in Italy, but there's supposed to be frescoes
Speaker 1: from the fourteenth century with very very close pictures that
Speaker 1: resemble the Broco, which was either the I can't remember
Speaker 1: the other Spanish pointer, but all the same thing, very
Speaker 1: very long years, a nose like Jimmy Duranny on it,
Speaker 1: and and so there's like they've been pretty much breeding
Speaker 1: true to type for what's fourteens from six years. And
Speaker 1: the dog is very docile. It's like Ed's Labs. I mean,
Speaker 1: I told that, you know, let watch my dogs. Well,
Speaker 1: what are they gonna do? He says, you're right, He says, well,
Speaker 1: if you're out there having a smoke, just keep it up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they just come up. And I finally have this dog
Speaker 1: that's a pointing dog that acts like that Labs. They're like,
Speaker 1: you know, they just come up and now they'll but
Speaker 1: they would run out of the driveway, like right now
Speaker 1: if I let my dogs out, they be not gone fire,
Speaker 1: but they just be gone at this hundred or two
Speaker 1: hundred yard range and I'd have to be screaming and
Speaker 1: panicking and everything. Yeah, yeah, there met the last the
Speaker 1: last lab. You know. Danny had that dog for a while,
Speaker 1: like my brother Danny had a duck hunt dog. Recently
Speaker 1: he went down to an adoption like a dog. I
Speaker 1: don't know when all this like bringing human terms came.
Speaker 1: The dogs used to go to the pound and get
Speaker 1: a dog. Now you're like, I rescued the dog. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what about, but people have been rescuing
Speaker 1: dogs all as long as people are going to the
Speaker 1: pound and picking up a dog. So he went to
Speaker 1: a rescue place, you know, and the dog he picked
Speaker 1: out his cry. His criteria for picking out a dog
Speaker 1: is it's just a building. It's a it specializes in labs.
Speaker 1: It's a pound for labs. And he went in there
Speaker 1: and every lab and every lab rescue, yea lab rescue.
Speaker 1: He went in there and except one stood up when
Speaker 1: he walked in, and he's like, I'll take the one
Speaker 1: that laid that didn't get up. It was a great dog.
Speaker 1: It was a great dog he died justly. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was cool about when it died. But a buddy of
Speaker 1: his was saying how he was real depressed man when
Speaker 1: his dog died. Tig like tick Welder. Yeah, Um, they're
Speaker 1: like your kids, Yeah, he thought so. All right, we'll
Speaker 1: be right back to talk a lot more about labs
Speaker 1: and other hunting dogs. Speaking of labs, I wanna tell
Speaker 1: one other lab story before we talked to that about
Speaker 1: labs for it, just to get the break down. And last,
Speaker 1: because well, two things. The only dog I ever really liked.
Speaker 1: We had many, many dogs, many would just vanish. Had
Speaker 1: that one Lab that was there. Friend. Man. We had dogs.
Speaker 1: We had Mike, Kayla, Snoopy, and we had all dogs.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know what all dogs. But they would
Speaker 1: never laugh. My dad would just get rid of him.
Speaker 1: One time we were this is awful to a man.
Speaker 1: He's dead, so no one's continued. Probably have him rescued. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he had him rescued like from life. But we're going
Speaker 1: down the road one day and we were going rabbit hunting.
Speaker 1: I was a kid. We're going rabbit hunting, and lo
Speaker 1: and behold, there's a beagle on the side of the
Speaker 1: road that dog became our dog. I mean it was
Speaker 1: like what timing was like. He took that dog and
Speaker 1: that dog was Bobo was his name, and that dog
Speaker 1: became our dog just as simple as opening the door
Speaker 1: of the truck and the dog called the dog in
Speaker 1: the truck probably stole someone's dog, and the Bobo lived
Speaker 1: with this for a long time because my dad had
Speaker 1: a good beagle, no no collar, no tag. I don't
Speaker 1: even remember someone. He's like, we're going to rabbit hunt.
Speaker 1: Apparently here's you know, here's this dog. So we had
Speaker 1: that dog. We had that dog for a while, Bobo,
Speaker 1: because it reminded my add of a good He used
Speaker 1: to have a lot of cocktails in Illinois, Illinois. But
Speaker 1: the one lapster I want to tell us is funny telling.
Speaker 1: I want to tell just because Ronnie's here is me
Speaker 1: and Ronnie went. I don't know how it happened. We
Speaker 1: went on a guided That was the first guy that
Speaker 1: ever went in my entire life. When I go hunt
Speaker 1: for a couple of days in which I got one
Speaker 1: snow goose, I think, and I got none. And at
Speaker 1: a point the guide, if you call him that, you
Speaker 1: know we're out there at two in the morning, because
Speaker 1: you have set out like thousands of decoys. At one
Speaker 1: point the guide goes to take he goes to relieve himself.
Speaker 1: He goes to take a growler, and he goes just
Speaker 1: like right behind us, you know what I mean, like
Speaker 1: you'd smell it behind us the trees. The trees were
Speaker 1: only another right behind us. And we're in layout blinds. Okay,
Speaker 1: and so you just stuck in a layout blind and
Speaker 1: as their comments, here's his lab back there. I know
Speaker 1: where this is going, right, there's this laugh back there
Speaker 1: to oilet paper hanging out of his mouth, you know,
Speaker 1: cleaning up, and and you already stuck in these bloods
Speaker 1: and in the lab all morning is going up and
Speaker 1: down the line of guys trying to kiss and lick
Speaker 1: everyone's face because he's just friendly. And he's been doing
Speaker 1: that all morning. But now we know what he was doing.
Speaker 1: He's like if a human being eight dogshit. And it
Speaker 1: came up to you and said, give me give me
Speaker 1: a kiss. No, no no, no, no no, just give me kiss,
Speaker 1: just give me kiss. Well I just it was, there's
Speaker 1: nothing I ate it, Just give me kiss all morning.
Speaker 1: And it didn't. So I he loved labradors. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I do like I do too. I like him too,
Speaker 1: but uh ed Arnett, I don't add from t RCP
Speaker 1: Theater Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. We met like at at things events,
Speaker 1: formally formal. Informal events, you go to a lot of
Speaker 1: hunting bets and meet a lot of guys don't do
Speaker 1: a lot of hunting. It's possible, you know, But um
Speaker 1: it ed and I hit it off. This the first
Speaker 1: time we actually gotten there to hunt. But I know
Speaker 1: that you just judged by your trailer alone, your dog man.
Speaker 1: You got like a polished dog trailer. Have you always
Speaker 1: been into like retrievers labs? Or do you? Did you
Speaker 1: do the whole point your thing too? Um? I got
Speaker 1: an interesting story on how it happened because I really
Speaker 1: got into duck hunting when I moved to Oregon, and
Speaker 1: I've shot birds since I was I started hunting I
Speaker 1: was ten years old, but I never hunted with Illinois. Yeah,
Speaker 1: right out of high school Texas, I was cliche and
Speaker 1: went west as a young man right out of high
Speaker 1: school Colorado and then moved to Montana, Wyoming, Oregon. S
Speaker 1: been a good chunk of time are in Texas and
Speaker 1: then uh now I'm back in Colorado. So um, I
Speaker 1: never hunted with a dog though, or even anybody with
Speaker 1: a dog. And when I was going we were talking
Speaker 1: today about uh, you know, hunting in the East Gallatin,
Speaker 1: hunting spring creeks and jump shooting or hitting pheasants, but
Speaker 1: also jump shooting mallards and just go pick up everything
Speaker 1: myself and at least at least tried to eat. Here
Speaker 1: comes the funny part of the story. So so we'd
Speaker 1: go out you know, the like the septic ponds that
Speaker 1: were out there in Belgrade, and we'd go out there.
Speaker 1: You're talking about jump shooting some of those. We'd go
Speaker 1: out there and jump shoot those. I take a fishing
Speaker 1: pole and throw a big gas, you know, snagging hook
Speaker 1: all the ducks and if you didn't kill them on land.
Speaker 1: So you do that for a while and you think, boy,
Speaker 1: this seems silly. And then I got to Oregon and
Speaker 1: I had I went hunting with a guy and he
Speaker 1: had chesapeaks, and I really was impressed with with how
Speaker 1: well behaved the dog was and and how great it
Speaker 1: was to have a dog going out and getting the
Speaker 1: birds and everything. So we had an non opening weekend
Speaker 1: of this was back in the or something. And so
Speaker 1: I go hunting after that opening weekend and I put
Speaker 1: a stock and some mallards and a reservoir in Oregon,
Speaker 1: and I doubled on green heads and it was great,
Speaker 1: and they all fall out in the lake and I'm like,
Speaker 1: all right now, how the hell am I gonna go
Speaker 1: get them there out in the lake? So I stripped
Speaker 1: down naked, and I swam out and got those two mallards,
Speaker 1: and I said, I'm buying a freaking dog after this.
Speaker 1: That's a true story, And I started looking at I
Speaker 1: went and got a lab that winner. I totally understand it, man,
Speaker 1: because the times I've hunted, like, we used to jump
Speaker 1: shoot a lot of ponds in Michigan, And in Michigan
Speaker 1: you have a lot of cat tails around duck ponds,
Speaker 1: you know, and they probably jump shooting ducks is like
Speaker 1: over decoys are coming toward you, and they usually land
Speaker 1: closer than where they were when you hit them. There're
Speaker 1: any goals, right, jump shooting going away? Yeah, they're already
Speaker 1: far away, and then they're gonna be far other way
Speaker 1: by the time they land, and you've got these seas
Speaker 1: of cat tails and you're like, bamn, that thing starts
Speaker 1: going down and it goes down and you just get
Speaker 1: like a sink and feeling like I will never ever
Speaker 1: find it. You can you look and look and look.
Speaker 1: Then you go out there with the dog, and that's
Speaker 1: something that just runs over and like six his head
Speaker 1: underwater and pulls it out. That made me a believer.
Speaker 1: It is not like if if they made a dog,
Speaker 1: you can put in a thing in your pocket, just
Speaker 1: get it out when you needed it and like put
Speaker 1: water on it, it turns into a dog. Is a
Speaker 1: good retrievers, No, they're not. Well. I don't know how
Speaker 1: Ronnie feels about this, but with it, I can remember
Speaker 1: a handful of retrieves, maybe not a handful of maybe
Speaker 1: two or three handfuls, but you remember the special one.
Speaker 1: And to that, to that point, I dropped a duck
Speaker 1: way back and in a mars and I sent one
Speaker 1: of my females. She's gone now, but I sent her
Speaker 1: and she went and she came back. She hunted short
Speaker 1: and I gave her back and she went. And you
Speaker 1: can't handle a dog on a blind retrieve in that stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was really thick and nasty. So I
Speaker 1: got her over the river because she didn't mark this bird.
Speaker 1: I just gave her a hard back and I let
Speaker 1: her go, and about ten minutes later she came back
Speaker 1: with that damn duly So so that's why I got it.
Speaker 1: That's how I got into it. And I didn't want
Speaker 1: to check speak for no particular reason. I just liked
Speaker 1: labs a German wire hair. Personality issues, So you mainly
Speaker 1: expect you mainly expect your dog to find down the critters. No,
Speaker 1: I expect my dog to mark and go get it
Speaker 1: and then find cripples as needed, and if I need
Speaker 1: to handle them to a blind on a blind retrieve,
Speaker 1: but mostly after the shot has been taken. That's correct.
Speaker 1: In a perfect world. You know, you want a dog
Speaker 1: that's in your blind like Sage was today when we
Speaker 1: were hunting cranes. I took the dog today because we
Speaker 1: had good enough cover to hide it. And he sat
Speaker 1: there nice and calm while those birds came in and
Speaker 1: and he didn't see a couple of them, but you know,
Speaker 1: so we just lined him up and you know, and
Speaker 1: send him out. But he he marked a few of them,
Speaker 1: and and then we walked over and picked up a couple.
Speaker 1: So but you know, you want a dog for a retriever.
Speaker 1: You want to dog that sits there, you know, nice
Speaker 1: and quiet, obedient, doesn't doesn't you know, break and run
Speaker 1: out when the geese are coming in or when you
Speaker 1: pull up the shotgun. What I'm sitting there? So they
Speaker 1: actually mark the bird when it falls. Have you always
Speaker 1: been into retrievers? Yeah, that's the only one, more kind
Speaker 1: of retrievers than than a lap Yeah. So um, if
Speaker 1: you go the you know, if you go by if
Speaker 1: a k C rules, if you will, the retriever breeds
Speaker 1: are Labradors, Golden Retrievers, chess Peak, Bay retrievers. And then
Speaker 1: for the retriever hunting tests, which I judge for and
Speaker 1: you judge after my judge a k C ron you
Speaker 1: judge for Navada, And I have a question for you
Speaker 1: about that there is an a k C equivalent for
Speaker 1: pointing dogs. Correct. Yeah, a k C has uh several tests,
Speaker 1: Yeah that we we transition right into. Yeah, you just
Speaker 1: don't blend the water in with the test day, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they also have an a k C water tests
Speaker 1: like a little just to show that your dog can
Speaker 1: go do water retrieves. So a case covers a real
Speaker 1: lot of a big gamut. So the hunting test program
Speaker 1: started with um NARA, the North American Hunting Retriever Association,
Speaker 1: and then NAPPED as the equivalent. So you know, this
Speaker 1: was you know, some old field trailer guys and duck
Speaker 1: hunters that kind of got together and said, you know,
Speaker 1: we just want to go out and test these hunting
Speaker 1: skills of these dogs. So they created this North American
Speaker 1: Hunting Retriever Association. And how did you become a judge
Speaker 1: doing that? Well, I just got into dogs exactly. My
Speaker 1: first I got my first dog, after I did my
Speaker 1: famous swim, after my two mallards. UM got this dog,
Speaker 1: and I started reading books, started with Richard Richard Walters
Speaker 1: Water Dogs. That book is everywhere Man. We had that
Speaker 1: dog because of absolutely and I'll say we had We
Speaker 1: wound up with a great lab because we lived by
Speaker 1: a Coast Guard station and a woman who was in
Speaker 1: the Coast Guard was getting restationed somewhere. She couldn't bring
Speaker 1: her dog. She put her yeah, put an add the
Speaker 1: paper interviewed. A bunch of people came out to our house.
Speaker 1: We had kids, We like the hunt. We lived in
Speaker 1: a lake. She gave us the dog, and that dog
Speaker 1: we had that dog long long time, turned into I
Speaker 1: mean just as far as obedience. The only problem she
Speaker 1: was white, so it's hard to hide her in the
Speaker 1: duck with you're always putting. We guys had those army
Speaker 1: wool army blankets, always trying to lay around there, you know.
Speaker 1: But she would spot birds in the air that you
Speaker 1: didn't see and had a noise you'd make in the
Speaker 1: back of her throat. And when she made that noise,
Speaker 1: there was a burden. She was like, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just like there's a duck. And she would find ducks
Speaker 1: that you'd find ducks you didn't shoot. You'd go out
Speaker 1: the second morning season waiting for to get light out,
Speaker 1: and you look and she'd be staying there with a
Speaker 1: duck in her mouth and duck be looking around like
Speaker 1: she went and found some duck that wasn't even dead
Speaker 1: light out. She's standing there with it. She was a
Speaker 1: great dog. She wound up just the one you hunted
Speaker 1: like the most with. That's the old we ever had
Speaker 1: legitim hunt with. Two things happened at one time. We're
Speaker 1: on one of those floating land lakes, you know how
Speaker 1: it has a false bot, and we knocked some geese
Speaker 1: down in the early season in Michigan, and there's a
Speaker 1: wounded goose very much alive it on some floating land,
Speaker 1: and she swam out and climbed up on the floating land.
Speaker 1: But her four legs and that goose beat the ship
Speaker 1: out of her. Man and she would never touch another
Speaker 1: goose again after that. The second bad thing to have there,
Speaker 1: she got hit by a van. We're out working on
Speaker 1: our BMX bikes and I don't want to say who
Speaker 1: did it, but a guy down the road hit her
Speaker 1: in a blue van carpet van and um busted her
Speaker 1: all up. We got a lot more years out of her.
Speaker 1: Eventually she got where she couldn't even stand up. And
Speaker 1: then a friend of ours been Uh, took her out
Speaker 1: in Chippewa National Forest in the up and we had
Speaker 1: to dig a hole and shoot the dog down in
Speaker 1: the hole and bury the hole. Is just terrible and
Speaker 1: I've never had another dogs since then. You know. Back
Speaker 1: to how I got into kc UM judging, So I
Speaker 1: ran the hunt tests after when my dog became of
Speaker 1: age and and I wanted to do the hunt test.
Speaker 1: Hand trials are very as a handler. Hunt tests are
Speaker 1: very different than the field trawlers, and the reason they
Speaker 1: put those programs together was to test dog hunting abilities
Speaker 1: and like like keep I want at the end of this,
Speaker 1: I want to explay like in you too. I don't
Speaker 1: want to forget to ask you this. Do you think
Speaker 1: that a test can you test the dog in a
Speaker 1: way that actually demonstrates how that dog will perform in
Speaker 1: the field. Just keep in the back of your head.
Speaker 1: Sure you don't need to do it now. Remember well,
Speaker 1: I was really into this new this new dog I got,
Speaker 1: and I trained her almost every day. Didn't and you
Speaker 1: need to when they're really young, traded with it towards
Speaker 1: the test exact Well, yeah, I kind of got into
Speaker 1: the test. But you know everybody starts off saying I
Speaker 1: just want to get hunting dog and go and test sometime.
Speaker 1: And you see a dog before me, like, I gotta
Speaker 1: have that, exactly, I gotta have it. I have a
Speaker 1: I have a Nova, But I really want to cast
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, no, no, no, I'd pick your favorite
Speaker 1: Beater car. But you want you want the Maserati when
Speaker 1: you see him run and then so the field trials
Speaker 1: is different than the hunting tests. The hunting test you
Speaker 1: you were judged against a standard. You set up a
Speaker 1: test and if the dogs pass that, the field h
Speaker 1: hunting tests again under different field scenarios. In a field trial,
Speaker 1: they it's a winner take all, so first, second, first, second,
Speaker 1: third placement. And some of these field trial dogs, now,
Speaker 1: I mean they'll they'll mark readily out to four hundred yards.
Speaker 1: That's not a realistic hunting situation. Dogs, and look at
Speaker 1: where it is if you can see it. But if
Speaker 1: you see it, but he can be handled to four yards,
Speaker 1: probably couldn't he right. But you know, if you were
Speaker 1: in a situation where you were high enough and the
Speaker 1: dog actually could see it, there are there are many
Speaker 1: dogs that could could actually run out market if they
Speaker 1: have been trained to deal with the train, the wind,
Speaker 1: all these factors that play in mental memory. And that's
Speaker 1: what labs have. Labs have that marking memory. Like most
Speaker 1: pointing dogs do not have that marking memory. A lab
Speaker 1: will like you can and you guys train it pull
Speaker 1: these different retreats. Well, your average dog are gonna go
Speaker 1: get that last thing you threw, and you go, no,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go get the second thing I threw. You
Speaker 1: remember that they can all I can talk to I
Speaker 1: mean I can get define mark because mark retree is
Speaker 1: when the dog actually sees the bird or is supposed
Speaker 1: to see it, and a blind retrieve is when they
Speaker 1: don't see the fall and you give them hands that
Speaker 1: you send them on a I send it on you.
Speaker 1: He has no idea exactly, so it's a teamwork, so
Speaker 1: lost birth. But he might go out and find it.
Speaker 1: That's well that somebody's got still roughly guided. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, an ethical hunter will watch those birds until
Speaker 1: they're completely out of sight. You've seen many an approximation
Speaker 1: of where it is, and he'll look around exactly. And
Speaker 1: if I don't think I could handle him to a bird,
Speaker 1: I don't send my dogs on very many blinds quite frankly,
Speaker 1: and hunting situations yourself to go over there and get
Speaker 1: the dog on the bird and make sure make sure
Speaker 1: you find it in the area fall. If it's practical
Speaker 1: to send him, I've I've sent him on several, but
Speaker 1: you know, more often than not, you're walking him out
Speaker 1: there to to find a cripple, going out to the
Speaker 1: cranze the day the dog is new though, yeah he
Speaker 1: saw him and also he saw him or let me
Speaker 1: just fit it real quick the one that the one
Speaker 1: that Ronnie you shot today and landed on the bank.
Speaker 1: He didn't see it, but I lined him up and
Speaker 1: I just lined him and he and he could see
Speaker 1: it right there. So then when he saw it, I
Speaker 1: locked him and I said, but even if he couldn't
Speaker 1: have saw it, Ed lined him up, and he learns
Speaker 1: from that key of Ed's hand, that's right. You put
Speaker 1: your hand over the head dog his head, and that
Speaker 1: dog's gonna finds he's supposed to look in that direction
Speaker 1: and pay attention. He saw the bird land there. Now,
Speaker 1: had he not seen it, I would have said back,
Speaker 1: and then when he veers off course you hit him
Speaker 1: with a sinistle. We give him to handle back. So
Speaker 1: this is this quick question, and I got some more,
Speaker 1: but just try to answer as quickly as possible, because
Speaker 1: this is something I think a lot of people come
Speaker 1: up with. Then you guys probably encounter all the time.
Speaker 1: Is like people, there are so many dudes out there
Speaker 1: who got a dog. There was gonna be like the
Speaker 1: big hunting dog, and it winds up not it winds
Speaker 1: up not being you know, and when that happens, I
Speaker 1: typically think, you know, maybe the dog didn't have talent
Speaker 1: but I typically think like that they didn't have the
Speaker 1: time due to due to obligations or laziness, they didn't
Speaker 1: take the time to train the dog. How Let's say
Speaker 1: you a fella goes out and gets a puppy. What
Speaker 1: is the bare minimum days put it by in terms
Speaker 1: of days and week days and month whatever, What is
Speaker 1: the bare minimum you better be prepared to put into
Speaker 1: that dog when you bring it home to ever expect
Speaker 1: to have a dog that isn't gonna embarrass you in
Speaker 1: front of your bodies or there isn't just gonna be
Speaker 1: a detriment to your hunting. I think probably more like
Speaker 1: hours a week exactly. Well, yeah, and it's to me,
Speaker 1: it's more repetition, um than it is length of time.
Speaker 1: It's more short duration training sessions than a few long
Speaker 1: ones old a little every day exactly. That's that's much
Speaker 1: better than like one Saturday a week. So, and it's
Speaker 1: particularly important in my opinion, the first year is critical.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, little baby's brains are like a sponge.
Speaker 1: So's a dog, um, you know, and they want to work,
Speaker 1: they want to they want to please you. How many
Speaker 1: hours a week? I know it's hard to answer that way,
Speaker 1: but what would you say, you know, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I probably spent more than I more than I showed up,
Speaker 1: but it's probably ten fifteen hours a week, right, And
Speaker 1: then there's considerable investment though it's a it's a considerable
Speaker 1: if you want to train, if you want to basically
Speaker 1: not back to your question, which was just yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a half hour a day. So and it's for half
Speaker 1: an hour a day, you're gonna have a dog better
Speaker 1: than the guy who doesn't spend at half hour a day,
Speaker 1: you know. But one of the other biggest things that
Speaker 1: this is my biggest gripe with all dogs, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure Ed knows it too, is there's there's seven inherited
Speaker 1: traits to a pointing dog, and I guess there'd be
Speaker 1: six to a a flushing dog. You know, there's desire, pointing, cooperation, tracking. Um, well,
Speaker 1: that's embarrassing. I can't remember investing. But anyway, there's my
Speaker 1: books together road. There's inherited traits that this dog comes
Speaker 1: with in a in a package and inherited me like
Speaker 1: out of the box the box, and all you gotta
Speaker 1: do is like expose a little bit and and it's
Speaker 1: just like holy come my dog's holding point. He bring
Speaker 1: out stuff that's just there. It's just they're already and
Speaker 1: enhancing the instinct. And so then that training, you could
Speaker 1: get one of those dogs out of a litter. It's
Speaker 1: just what we call it natural, like you know you
Speaker 1: natural athletes in high school. The guy that could play
Speaker 1: all the sports and I couldn't run, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like the dog. It's like the dog we're talking about.
Speaker 1: We cycled through as a family, many dogs and also
Speaker 1: here comes this dog. No one new anything about it. It
Speaker 1: It was just like this dog car what you thought
Speaker 1: about it to like to find dogs? So that was
Speaker 1: all we were looking for you. That's where my that's
Speaker 1: my hallmark for a dog is. I can have a
Speaker 1: lower desired dog, but it's got to have a high cooperation.
Speaker 1: And my wire hairs didn't have well, one of them did,
Speaker 1: but most of them didn't. My short hair had. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was okay. But natural cooperation in a in a
Speaker 1: hunting dog, it's like an unspoken teamwork. You get stuff
Speaker 1: from them. Then the training is easy because they're like,
Speaker 1: oh this is this isn't there's dogs. I don't care
Speaker 1: who that trainer is. And you've seen people have made
Speaker 1: a lab get a title that don't deserve a title,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, I'm sure you've probably Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: given a prize one dog and I'm going I wouldn't
Speaker 1: put that dog in my truck. But this guy has
Speaker 1: overwhelmed all the faults and this dog with obedience. This
Speaker 1: dog is just like on pins and needles, but he's
Speaker 1: he's mastered with obedience. Train. But if you can get
Speaker 1: a dog that's cooperative, that means he wants to work
Speaker 1: with you, Like like a little dog that first bird
Speaker 1: and you get that puppy grabs a bird or whatever
Speaker 1: you throw, he just brings it back to you. You're like,
Speaker 1: we might have something here, but the one that runs
Speaker 1: around the backyard and like you're going, even as you're going,
Speaker 1: I gotta work with this dog and you have to work.
Speaker 1: A guy can take the pep out of a dog
Speaker 1: by pushing obedience too much. Oh yeah, you can definitely
Speaker 1: an act. Their behavior can be different. They can turn
Speaker 1: into little assholes, but some of them need to need more.
Speaker 1: And then there's other dogs are like that, like that
Speaker 1: kid that went to that he did better at Catholic
Speaker 1: school than he would have done in public school because
Speaker 1: the nuns just got him every and that's what dog
Speaker 1: training is, right, And I mean it's like timing the
Speaker 1: Catholic nuns. I had all my friends Catholic school. You know, Ronnie,
Speaker 1: this is this is, this is the digression. Did I
Speaker 1: want to get some fast questions? I want to answer, Ronnie,
Speaker 1: you're just not that old. But in his public school
Speaker 1: and swimming class, the boys all swim. That's the next
Speaker 1: episode on his podcast. It just sounds so long ago
Speaker 1: we had that. We had that happened in Alaska. We
Speaker 1: had that whole big conversation. Nobody believed it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right, I've never heard that they all swimming class
Speaker 1: public high school boys had no suits. You swim naked.
Speaker 1: And when I went to when I was being born
Speaker 1: the last day of October, second, the last day of October,
Speaker 1: I was not as mature as the other boys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was no hair down there and it was really
Speaker 1: like kind of pain. That a digression. Anyway, real quick
Speaker 1: back to this and then when I want to ask
Speaker 1: the rapid fire dog. So anyway, my that's this is
Speaker 1: what I look for more than a dog. Is that
Speaker 1: natural cooperation? Then you it's just makes the whole training
Speaker 1: thing easier. You can screw it up, but it makes
Speaker 1: the whole thing easier, and it's easy to see in
Speaker 1: a puppy. You can see cooperation issues all the time.
Speaker 1: In a puppy, you can usually pick out the wallflower
Speaker 1: and the bowl and then the what you want one
Speaker 1: in between. Exactly, you don't want, you don't want to
Speaker 1: work dependent on. Yeah, you don't want the one that
Speaker 1: thinks I'm the boss. Yeah, so yeah, exactly. I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of like that finding a mate to man.
Speaker 1: You might have something might yet I should write a
Speaker 1: relationship book. Now, be honest, I want you to do something.
Speaker 1: I want you to role play. What are you doing
Speaker 1: on your phone? There? I'm trying to get a picture
Speaker 1: of who's who's messing with their cord? Bad? Someone fiddling
Speaker 1: with their cord? Everbody hold dead still except be honest,
Speaker 1: I'll do what you were doing. Yeah, it's you drive
Speaker 1: me nuts? Sorry, not bad a little bit. What do
Speaker 1: you do on your phone? We're wasting time. I want
Speaker 1: I want you, I want you, I want I want
Speaker 1: you to role play as a dude who likes to
Speaker 1: hunt a little bit of everything, asking a question about
Speaker 1: what kind of dog he needs. I can do that
Speaker 1: because I was actually doing that you earlier today. No, no, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're a fellow like your honest lizen. Bows in Montana,
Speaker 1: a lot of hunting opportunities, upland waterfowl, mountain lions. I
Speaker 1: have two young kids, two young kids, and he can't
Speaker 1: be having get killed by dogs. His wife could be
Speaker 1: really mad about that. Please don't like it either, Please
Speaker 1: don't like him. What dog does he honest want? So
Speaker 1: I'm saying I put us to a pointer guy and
Speaker 1: a retriever guy. But you guys find consensus. You got
Speaker 1: to find consensus. I think I'm ask the question, will
Speaker 1: interject one more thing a pointer guy has to. I
Speaker 1: think a pointer guy and a retriever guy are both
Speaker 1: chasing an ideal. Right, A pointer guy dreams of that moment, right,
Speaker 1: and there's the dog locked down, point right, shotgun at
Speaker 1: the ready. The tail is just slightly like a super staff,
Speaker 1: not giving you a little, just not like flash and
Speaker 1: just ready to rock. So that's his image. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the retriever guy's image is is his dog in
Speaker 1: flight out of the blind into the icy cold water,
Speaker 1: and he swims out and brings you the dog. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good vision. My brother in law's chocolate lab
Speaker 1: stage who's also named Sage. Interesting female. This dog. These
Speaker 1: guys are shooting just Drake's this dog sits on the
Speaker 1: bow and when he calls that dog's name, that dog,
Speaker 1: with no running start hits the water fifteen feet out.
Speaker 1: I mean it's prettier time. Ye see that. That's the
Speaker 1: picture right there, man, I mean it's like, yeah, Yanny's
Speaker 1: showing a picture this to your brother in law down Tennessee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's got a black lab, chocolate chocolate lab. He's got
Speaker 1: a bunch of mallards hanging there and springs kennel. Kennel's
Speaker 1: is where it's. That's where he bought it from. As
Speaker 1: G Gordon Liddy says, we're not going to take a
Speaker 1: break for crass commercial messages, all right. So there's your
Speaker 1: honest just moved, you know, young Strap and lad, two
Speaker 1: young kids just moved to Bowlsman. He's got upland waterfowl.
Speaker 1: He goes. He says to you guys, he he says
Speaker 1: at first, and what kind of dog do I want? Man?
Speaker 1: I just want a dog that's ready to roll. I
Speaker 1: don't even know what I'm gonna be doing. Give him
Speaker 1: your pitch. I'm willing to put some time in training.
Speaker 1: He's willing to put a little money down, not a lot.
Speaker 1: You don't want to spend more than a thousand dollars
Speaker 1: dollars he let's just also add this, I excuse him,
Speaker 1: I excuse him of his debt of a thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: Then I'll get him a dog. And he doesn't want
Speaker 1: to spend any more than that. He doesn't want to
Speaker 1: spend any more than that on a dog, and that's
Speaker 1: absolute top limit. He'd be a lot happier to spend three.
Speaker 1: You can't do that, okay, Okay. First, I'm smart enough
Speaker 1: to know that what I'm getting into is gonna cost
Speaker 1: a little bit of money, just like bing cheap range finders.
Speaker 1: You guys spend a little money. Okay. So that that
Speaker 1: first questioned, what's his budget? If he's smart, his budget
Speaker 1: should be a thousand minimum. Okay. So that's what i'd
Speaker 1: sell my puppies to you for. All right, So your
Speaker 1: honest again, I already know his credentials, says, do you
Speaker 1: ask them? Just say it right now as your role play, ed,
Speaker 1: can you do it? Laughing? See see yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a dog that can really do everything
Speaker 1: as well as come inside at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: hang out with my girls. Be a family dog. I
Speaker 1: can put in ten hours a week with it. That's great.
Speaker 1: Train it. You're gonna take that. That's a lot of time.
Speaker 1: But that time comes away from your dogs a lot
Speaker 1: of time. But we're gonna do it together. He's doing
Speaker 1: it with his children. So you're not like messing here.
Speaker 1: We can't do You could if you're home enough, you
Speaker 1: could do an hour day. But you know what not
Speaker 1: to stop the question. But you also remember a young dog,
Speaker 1: you don't do an hour day. You do it little
Speaker 1: little five minutes here, tens three or five, fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1: She comes longer and longer. You know what I said,
Speaker 1: I want to get I want to I want to
Speaker 1: I want to get I want to get here. Of
Speaker 1: course my bias, here's your it's it's biased answer. But
Speaker 1: the Labrador Retriever is without exception, one of the best
Speaker 1: dogs for all around hunting conditions, and they're really great
Speaker 1: family dogs. But it can't find bird, they can't find
Speaker 1: pre shot birds, they can't find a live birds. Again,
Speaker 1: he's not. I'm not following that. Yeah, they will go
Speaker 1: out and find before you shot him. Yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 1: you got what you got on the retriever side of it.
Speaker 1: So you feel like they're pretty reliable to find the
Speaker 1: dog that you hunted, that I hunted with today. Sage,
Speaker 1: my sage. That is one of the better pheasant labs
Speaker 1: I've ever had. Pavil No no, I keep that the
Speaker 1: dogs are divided into Flush's advocate. No, no, no. These
Speaker 1: are good up on dog. You have to train them
Speaker 1: on all of this stuff. But they're good in the
Speaker 1: duck blind, they're good on upland, and they're great with
Speaker 1: the family. But what yeah, let me let me put
Speaker 1: what he will not do. He won't point, but there
Speaker 1: are pointing labs. But you know what will in some way,
Speaker 1: once you get in tune with their body language, will,
Speaker 1: in their own inadvertent way, alert you to the presence
Speaker 1: of a bird. Sure, who did I tell the story?
Speaker 1: He's trying to find it, but you know by his
Speaker 1: body language that something's it's getting close, it's getting close.
Speaker 1: I told you last night on the way back about
Speaker 1: stage and the last two roosters. He was telling me
Speaker 1: the right here. Yeah, he was out hunt. He got
Speaker 1: real sick of walking. It kind of stopped, looked back
Speaker 1: from here from the top of the hill, kind of
Speaker 1: being like, you have to be kidding me, you have
Speaker 1: to this is so exciting. And he goes out there
Speaker 1: and there's two peasants. But this is the problem with
Speaker 1: the flushing breeds versus the pointers. I ran my ass
Speaker 1: off chasing that dog because he's really good on runners,
Speaker 1: and he was chasing a running blackbird. And so you
Speaker 1: want to put your tennis shoes on and chase a
Speaker 1: flush here after birds. Otherwise you do a gentleman lay
Speaker 1: and go to the point. So I gotta say, I
Speaker 1: almost don't want to lab just because everybody not everybody.
Speaker 1: Now I know somebody that doesn't have a You don't
Speaker 1: want a common dog. Everybody's got where do they run
Speaker 1: in Laba? I have no idea. I pake that curse
Speaker 1: hunts alright, something it runs pigs. You already gold the questions.
Speaker 1: So there's honest He's gonna give you an abbreviated verse
Speaker 1: the question in lvin tell me why I am sure?
Speaker 1: Come out, miss MIDI m sand hill cranes. I would
Speaker 1: say that what you need no if I was going
Speaker 1: to sell my breed of dog too. I would say
Speaker 1: the shortcomings, and my dogs would be, oh, that's a
Speaker 1: that's tactful. Start with the short because he lives with
Speaker 1: a big cell. You live in Bozeman, Montana, And if
Speaker 1: you are going to do a fair amount of winter
Speaker 1: of foul waterfall hunting, then you don't want one of
Speaker 1: my dogs because you're gonna have to put a vest on.
Speaker 1: It's gonna it has a very short coat. I do
Speaker 1: have one male that goes through Cedar you know Cedar
Speaker 1: Creek all the time, walks that creak and but that
Speaker 1: creek runs through my veins man that yeah, he walks
Speaker 1: right up to January one when we have to quit.
Speaker 1: He walks that creek doesn't get cold. But most of
Speaker 1: them they're gonna be chacken like a and that's a
Speaker 1: cold ass place too. Yeah, I mean you're like, ducks
Speaker 1: show up, they're really good to say of My thing
Speaker 1: would be like, if you think you're gonna do more
Speaker 1: duck hunting, then you want to get something with a
Speaker 1: really good coat, and you can't get a better coat
Speaker 1: than a lab well, maybe a chessie. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's if you really get a good lab
Speaker 1: coat Jesse's. But I mean they got they're warmer than
Speaker 1: a lab. Yeah, they're denser, I think probably. But I
Speaker 1: think I'm kind of digressing here. But what ed faces
Speaker 1: in a lot of pointing breeds face is so many
Speaker 1: people have bred these dogs without the concern for coat
Speaker 1: and confirmation. You're getting labs that don't have a good coat,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So because they've been breeding
Speaker 1: as house dogs, house dogs and and show dogs and
Speaker 1: everything else, and so that that makes a difference. But
Speaker 1: the breed I have now, the Brocco Taliano, that is,
Speaker 1: it's a couch potato. It is a Yeah, I absolutely
Speaker 1: you'd find upland birds with it. You you could jump
Speaker 1: shoot ducks, you could you could go out break some
Speaker 1: skim ice, shoot a few birds, put a vest on it.
Speaker 1: But if you're gonna really be out in the cold
Speaker 1: a lot, I would I would go with a dog
Speaker 1: with a better coat, either another versatile dog if you
Speaker 1: wanted a pointer or a lab. And we kind of
Speaker 1: both kind of laughed about the pointing labs is that's
Speaker 1: been around him for years, I'm sure, and a navda
Speaker 1: are our kind of joke is when somebody says, well,
Speaker 1: our pointing labs ever gonna come into NAVDA and one
Speaker 1: of the leaders of our group goes, a pointing lab
Speaker 1: is a fault. It's a flushing dog. Why why why
Speaker 1: would you want a pointing dog that didn't hold point?
Speaker 1: Why would you want a flushing dog? It stops in
Speaker 1: the middle of what he's doing. You know, It's like
Speaker 1: it'd be like if you've meant an exotic dancer is
Speaker 1: a good cook. Wrong. My very first lab, actually I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say she was a pointer by any means, but
Speaker 1: you know, she's she got up on the bird and
Speaker 1: she she knew it was there, so I smelled it,
Speaker 1: so I just told her to stay. I would walk
Speaker 1: up and just say get him, and she those I
Speaker 1: would love to have one of those, you know, but
Speaker 1: she was a flusher whatever. People have started to try
Speaker 1: to just make this new breed of pointing labs, and
Speaker 1: I don't I'm sure they're not. I don't know how
Speaker 1: I like to know, how do you feel about it? Like?
Speaker 1: When what was how long we been going for? And
Speaker 1: I got a bonus question, you got bose questions, and
Speaker 1: you gotta give me the pitch, and he wrote down
Speaker 1: a question that he hasn't answered yet. Okay, anyway that
Speaker 1: my pitch would be, if you wanted a pointing dog,
Speaker 1: that would be a great family dog. I'd have to
Speaker 1: agree with my breed of Brocateliano's or possibly be some
Speaker 1: uh Griffin, wire haired pointing Griffon, maybe a Visila. Back
Speaker 1: to the short haired. Those breeds are not they're the
Speaker 1: other two are kind of popular, but they're a little
Speaker 1: bit more on a docile side. A German wire hair
Speaker 1: is a little crazy. German short hairs wine Riners And again,
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna if people hear this thing, go oh you
Speaker 1: son of a bitch. I'm saying, just people's rifle caliber.
Speaker 1: There's gonna be You're not websites where people defend pit bulls. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't want one next to me. I
Speaker 1: know there's some sweetheart pit bulls out there. I just
Speaker 1: don't want one next to me. So when I say
Speaker 1: general statement, um, you'd want one of the more docile
Speaker 1: pointing breeds that are known for being a little more
Speaker 1: laid back, you know, with the family. Yeah, and if
Speaker 1: you want to, you're not giving a good cell. You've devoted,
Speaker 1: like you've devoted a huge portion of your life to
Speaker 1: these dogs, and you're basically telling a guy, i'd go
Speaker 1: get a lab but if you want one, to get
Speaker 1: a docile one. No, I know there's more in you
Speaker 1: because if it wasn't, you wouldn't have. This is all
Speaker 1: you've ever been, like, like since you know, when you're
Speaker 1: besides your work and your family, this is what you
Speaker 1: loved and you're not you're not telling the boy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but see, I don't I don't like hard sell a dog.
Speaker 1: I just can't do it. You know, you got too much, yes,
Speaker 1: too much morals and stuff. Yeah, it's just like it
Speaker 1: just depends on what you want, right, I I would
Speaker 1: just that's it's just not the right question to ask
Speaker 1: me because I want more information about what you want.
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna say, hey, I'll tell people. I don't
Speaker 1: think you said all around when you say all around,
Speaker 1: and here's not a bonus, and will make it all around.
Speaker 1: My bonus question is you all know a much more
Speaker 1: of a big game hunter than I am, small game waterfowl, birds, whatever.
Speaker 1: So I don't even know if it's legal in Montana,
Speaker 1: you can't do in Colorado, but if I had a
Speaker 1: trail of wounded animal dog you know in Montana, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Michigan, you can, can. I think you used
Speaker 1: to not be able to also became able to recently
Speaker 1: someone I think, I I totally if you've I know,
Speaker 1: it's hard to figure out if you've hitting wounded a
Speaker 1: dog or hitting mood today and not a dog hitting
Speaker 1: moonded a big game man, Well, I don't. I think
Speaker 1: that anything you can throw at it to find it,
Speaker 1: you should be able to throw at it to find it.
Speaker 1: And I haven't heard both sides of the story. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's a great army. Why not. I just don't see, like,
Speaker 1: how would the retrieval of the game ever be a negative?
Speaker 1: I just can't picture, well, illegals, right, But the reason
Speaker 1: it's legals because people would run them. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: you're you're heading people, you're heading off abuse. Yeah you know.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like it's so hard to discuss laws
Speaker 1: and legal stuff. Like my brother has a rule when
Speaker 1: he discusses the stuff, he's talking about what's the goal
Speaker 1: or the legislation rather than how people are going to
Speaker 1: get around it? And so I support the goal personal
Speaker 1: ethics here, Yeah, support the goal we want to find.
Speaker 1: We want to find that. Yeah, first and foremost, that
Speaker 1: dear was going to help him retrieve that. Look, that
Speaker 1: dog is not gonna be with you on that bow hunt.
Speaker 1: You know, let's say you're not using a dog to
Speaker 1: help you on the bow. No, let's say you make
Speaker 1: a you know, your shots not quite right on. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna spend a day twenty four hours looking for it,
Speaker 1: exhausted and go, Okay, it's time to go home and
Speaker 1: get the dog, because all we gotta drops for, you know,
Speaker 1: half a mile. Well, if I was going to speak
Speaker 1: to what you're looking for then, and and I know
Speaker 1: labs are used for tracking. I mean they can do
Speaker 1: a great job of tracking. They'll find when you can
Speaker 1: train them. If you really want to do they can
Speaker 1: certainly do it. Um but the versatile breeds again, this
Speaker 1: would not be maybe my breed, although mine have. I
Speaker 1: have one guy that works for bear archery that tracks
Speaker 1: a bunch of yeer with his dog all the time,
Speaker 1: with with a brocko and uh, but some of the
Speaker 1: virstail breeds tracking recovery of crippled game, was there their biggest,
Speaker 1: biggest least that was the barometer there's an old saying
Speaker 1: when it comes to pointing breeds. The Germans want a
Speaker 1: tracking dog that will point, and the Americans want a
Speaker 1: pointing dog that will track. So can I kind of
Speaker 1: cut it real quick? Montana, it's legal to track with
Speaker 1: a leash dog. Pretty good. That's a great compromise. A compromise, yeah,
Speaker 1: most dogs, most states. I think it's leash most states.
Speaker 1: That's reasonable. He's not gonna be killing other stuff? Now?
Speaker 1: Is that Is that reasonable to ask out of the dog? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: God As, That's where it comes into the demeanor of
Speaker 1: not being crazy. It's like, okay, and you train them
Speaker 1: that way, you train them un the leash. You you
Speaker 1: do blood, so they just know, like that leash is
Speaker 1: not a big deal. I know I'm pulling my dad along,
Speaker 1: but he's not going crazy. And yeah, I've seen dogs
Speaker 1: do that. One wire hair black one and he asked
Speaker 1: what we talked about. He he tracks several day. He
Speaker 1: killed it, killed a couple dear to the point of
Speaker 1: being able to got him. We are in a small house,
Speaker 1: Texas and one of the less right now earlier buttocks hurt,
Speaker 1: so um, just to wrap I want to wrap all
Speaker 1: your your bonus questions taken care of edge should answer
Speaker 1: it briefly. What was the question? Yeah, I love big
Speaker 1: game and I'd be great if my dog, if I
Speaker 1: could train my dog to do that. You just said,
Speaker 1: if you know, you can train him to do anything.
Speaker 1: Just a quick side note. The dog we hunted with
Speaker 1: the day's stage. I actually trained him to find dead
Speaker 1: bats and birds under wind turbans. I used to do
Speaker 1: research on windmill and faytal windmills and Faytali. Where were
Speaker 1: you doing network? Mostly back east in Pennsylvania, going to
Speaker 1: if they really are if they killed bats and mostly bats,
Speaker 1: but the birds as well. But I actually trained him
Speaker 1: and I got him trained in five days and he'd
Speaker 1: go out and in our trials he found over the
Speaker 1: trial bats. So we were pretty But exactly, it's the
Speaker 1: desire to you just you just turned it. You've channeled.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you how we did it. Channeled it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I just took the bats, some frozen bats, and I'd
Speaker 1: set him out there somewhere who doesn't have him when
Speaker 1: he actually found them, well so, and when he found it,
Speaker 1: i'd give him a food treat and I threw but
Speaker 1: more importantly i'd throw him a bumper. The retreat as
Speaker 1: the ultimate, so then you reward him and then you
Speaker 1: just phase And this is with any kind of training.
Speaker 1: You just phase out of that after a while. Then
Speaker 1: the game or the or the command or whatever it
Speaker 1: is becomes the reward. My buddy Brandt, who I mentioned
Speaker 1: Offen train you didn't same thing. He's a researcher like himself,
Speaker 1: train his dog um to find nests. I had got
Speaker 1: very good at fun very first, which he said are
Speaker 1: if you don't have a dog out there, and you
Speaker 1: don't if you don't have a dog out there and
Speaker 1: you don't have a hen who's wearing a tracker, it
Speaker 1: is extremely difficult to find darkness in high grass. And
Speaker 1: he would just he just knocked it out of the
Speaker 1: park finding with that dog. I did the same thing
Speaker 1: with my first, my first lab. She would get there
Speaker 1: and destroy the eggs. She'd get there and be like,
Speaker 1: right right here is the same note. That's why they
Speaker 1: do all the banning of woodcock and what um crowse
Speaker 1: with pointing dogs because when they come into the scent,
Speaker 1: he won't get in the crush it right, So it's
Speaker 1: it's like can't and you're right there it's a dog.
Speaker 1: Tell the dog to wall. It's got to be trained
Speaker 1: dog that you can do all the work with the
Speaker 1: eggs or the Yeah, so your bonus question, you can
Speaker 1: you can train these dogs, but one dog more out
Speaker 1: of the box is gonna want to do it? Probably
Speaker 1: some kind of well, it's probably be a bloodhound, right,
Speaker 1: it would do that would be there, and that would
Speaker 1: be I would say, yeah, if if all you wanted
Speaker 1: to do was track. The problem is with a with
Speaker 1: the hound group. Do you want to say bloodhound? Very
Speaker 1: few bloodhounds ever getting any competition and are trained for
Speaker 1: tracking anymore. It's a great old dog, but they're not
Speaker 1: real active. Um, then if you were family dogs, just
Speaker 1: quickly bloodhound. I've never had one in the house. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think bloodhounds yeah, but I know the
Speaker 1: other dogs that would track better and faster would be
Speaker 1: your blue ticks in your uh all the coon dogs
Speaker 1: the bearer but but they's sales pitch. They don't they
Speaker 1: don't listen good. They're very independent. Who's this now? Bare
Speaker 1: dogs and coon dogs that you were looking at them?
Speaker 1: Dogs Floyd Lion dogs would kill you. Really, they're like
Speaker 1: the old lions and they gotta fight lions. Yeah, those
Speaker 1: dogs are ready to fight. One dog will go fight
Speaker 1: a line. Wow, that's it's like, hell, he would rather
Speaker 1: die than pull out of the fight. Yeah, I've never
Speaker 1: seen those dogs do not snuggle. I see my dogs
Speaker 1: probably don't want that one. Really, and it sounds like
Speaker 1: I'm being like Floyd to die if he knew out staying.
Speaker 1: The dogs to kill you, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: mean they kill you. Understand, Like those dogs think about
Speaker 1: one thing. They think about their group dynamic, which is
Speaker 1: very complex because there's a bunch of them. You know,
Speaker 1: you're running like you've got a dozen dogs or whatever.
Speaker 1: They think about going on and then they think about
Speaker 1: how does that relate to catching lines? You know, and
Speaker 1: that's not a dog you on for the house. So really,
Speaker 1: I think it's if you want to concentrate on blood tracking,
Speaker 1: I would say pick one of the versatile breeds because
Speaker 1: it's probably more in the gene pool. But I also
Speaker 1: know that my new son in law his family in Pensacola, Florida,
Speaker 1: they have a hunting camp in Alabama and there are
Speaker 1: two blood tracking dogs are their labs. So I mean,
Speaker 1: are they good to find a deer, Yeah they are.
Speaker 1: And then I don't think they've ever done it. But
Speaker 1: that's the guy, the son in law, and so he
Speaker 1: ran his broco with the labs, and I was broccolis
Speaker 1: tracking blood. So but I've never trained one to track
Speaker 1: big game, but I'm sure he can do it because
Speaker 1: the way I trained for trailing for pheasants is you
Speaker 1: buy a pin raise pheasant and you kill it and
Speaker 1: you drag it, and you drag it through a field
Speaker 1: and you plan it somewhere where you know where you
Speaker 1: know it is, and you get the dog out and
Speaker 1: put him on the sand and work him until he
Speaker 1: finds it. You know What's what's kind of a I
Speaker 1: don't mean to offer this as a wrap up, but
Speaker 1: what's interesting is the first time I ever went hunting
Speaker 1: pigs of dogs, they had classic trackers like hounds. Then
Speaker 1: they had where pitbulls in Hawaii and they had pit
Speaker 1: bulls they look like a pit bull that they had
Speaker 1: a dog that would track the pig. They didn't have
Speaker 1: a dog that would catch the pig and anchor it.
Speaker 1: And these dogs knew to grab that pig by the
Speaker 1: ears and they would hold that thing to the ground.
Speaker 1: So the dogs worked, come hell or high water, and
Speaker 1: these guys like, that's just how you do it. That
Speaker 1: later did that in New Zealand, and they had a
Speaker 1: dog that looked like a tone down greyhound and they
Speaker 1: even had whip it in them. They bred whip it
Speaker 1: in them for speed. And these dogs were great pig hunters.
Speaker 1: But they wouldn't actually fight the pick. They're just harassed
Speaker 1: man handle the pig. They would They would not anchor
Speaker 1: a pig. They would harass it and corner it and
Speaker 1: keep it busy while he went and caught up with it.
Speaker 1: And result the results. You gotta get in there and
Speaker 1: fight the dog. You gotta fight the pig a little
Speaker 1: bit more, but that little thing would dip. The third
Speaker 1: time I ever went did this was in Florida. You'n't
Speaker 1: stop moled earlier. Whole other deal, whole different kind of dog,
Speaker 1: no pit bulls, no whippets. Well what was it, some
Speaker 1: kind of smaller hound dog. But they had one big
Speaker 1: I can't remember her name. There was that one big
Speaker 1: cur that it looked like, Remember that big Remember the
Speaker 1: dogs all got the huge fight with the raccoon. Remember
Speaker 1: the dogs in there that board charge that dog and
Speaker 1: laid it open good. Yeah, And they had small Those
Speaker 1: dogs are small, most of them like the day pound
Speaker 1: or no, I'll probably that made. But there was one
Speaker 1: that was like a seventy seventy five pounds, big chested
Speaker 1: by the pick. No, I think it was funny about
Speaker 1: this guy what he said, big chest of this Oh
Speaker 1: this guy his dog gets you know, he's got dogs.
Speaker 1: They're getting fights the pigs all the time. And I
Speaker 1: said to him, I said, man, I said, what's your
Speaker 1: vet think you guys bringing in these cut up dogs?
Speaker 1: Does your vet think that it's like? Does he get
Speaker 1: Maddie like it's abusive to put these dogs the situations?
Speaker 1: He goes, No, I went and found a vet legs
Speaker 1: and hunt pigs like that. That was certainly help. That
Speaker 1: would help. All right. Where are we at with time?
Speaker 1: We should? Probably we're there, all right. So the logical
Speaker 1: conclusion of this, you need to go buy a broco
Speaker 1: Italian on a lab. Do you need a budget of
Speaker 1: what what do you need for a Budget's got a dog.
Speaker 1: It's a fat like you're not you're not gonna take offense.
Speaker 1: But you got a dog that's a fashionable dog. Not fashionable,
Speaker 1: it's unknown. People want it for guaranty. And he has
Speaker 1: even sold dogs a handful of him more to handful
Speaker 1: of them to people who have no intention to hunting
Speaker 1: net dog. How can you do that? Well, it's easy.
Speaker 1: It's called for a eight week puppet. It just says
Speaker 1: did the same thing. No one knows not three You've
Speaker 1: got to realize went to pets and the family. Answer
Speaker 1: me this, how many labs? How many labs you think
Speaker 1: are in this country? Lots? How millions? How many people?
Speaker 1: For family? Just divide that by Okay, so let's just
Speaker 1: say probably I'm gonna say there's five million labs in
Speaker 1: in his country, or let's just say a million. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a safe numbers three million people. Let's say
Speaker 1: say five thousand. I'll bet you butt you only two
Speaker 1: to three percent of ever put a duck in her mouth.
Speaker 1: So it's the same way if if if that so
Speaker 1: same thing. This is a very esoteric dog. It costs
Speaker 1: lots of important, It costs a lot of the price
Speaker 1: is gonna come down and they're all gonna they're all
Speaker 1: gonna come down to the price. But right now, um,
Speaker 1: there's somebody who don't know shipp from putting I sell
Speaker 1: him for so you don't feel any kind of world
Speaker 1: thing where you gotta make sure they're gonna hunt that dog. No,
Speaker 1: I pushed them in in my in my registry, in
Speaker 1: my breeding contract. If they ever want to breathe this dog,
Speaker 1: then they have to do all the things I do.
Speaker 1: They have to do a nap to test, they have
Speaker 1: to have health test, hips, eyes, X rays, everything, And
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, then you're just as new as I
Speaker 1: was twenty five years ago. But you're gonna do what
Speaker 1: I do. And if they do that, and the dogs
Speaker 1: gotta pass a hunting test, this dog got the ability
Speaker 1: to do it. And I'm fine with that. And here
Speaker 1: about what happened Matt. Recently, he bought a guy gave
Speaker 1: him a cow that for some reason was assumed to
Speaker 1: be infertile. Oh yes, yes, I did hear that. And
Speaker 1: then I don't know how it happened. Someone brought a
Speaker 1: bull over. And but this is my brother. Someone brought
Speaker 1: that could be mutilating this story with The basic gist
Speaker 1: is the guy gives him the cow that's supposed to
Speaker 1: be not viable, infertile. Somehow bull climes over. Turns out
Speaker 1: the cow is not in fact infertile has a calf.
Speaker 1: Matt decides to get out of the live stock business
Speaker 1: and takes his cow calf pair down to sell him
Speaker 1: at an auction. Gets in a little trouble with the
Speaker 1: brand inspector who wants to brandon papers but has no
Speaker 1: idea what he's talking about because the guy just gave
Speaker 1: it to him because he never had cows before. Why
Speaker 1: is up? He has to go to the guy that
Speaker 1: gave him the cow. The guy that gave him the
Speaker 1: cow is not happy because he has like a protected bloodline, right,
Speaker 1: like a name. He's got to defend, right, He's got
Speaker 1: a reputation, And here he gives one of his cows
Speaker 1: to someone who just guy goes and breathes it with
Speaker 1: some bull down the road. But he was told it
Speaker 1: was not viable. Well I know, but anyways, he had
Speaker 1: to go talk to He had to get himself getting messy.
Speaker 1: So I can see that getting messy. The long short
Speaker 1: of stories, he was impressed by beef prices. He's out
Speaker 1: of the stock business now, but he was in it
Speaker 1: pretty thick for a couple of days there. So at
Speaker 1: budget dog budget, uh, if you get really high powered
Speaker 1: field trial bread dogs they're gonna push field those the
Speaker 1: sire or the damn or both field trial champions. So
Speaker 1: you know it's a good smart and the mom and
Speaker 1: dad went to Harvard exactly cadillact the maserati. But you know,
Speaker 1: a good average hutting dog is gonna be a thousand
Speaker 1: bucks usually minimum thousand, fifteen hundred. I think the key
Speaker 1: thing to look for um when I was breeding readily
Speaker 1: through brown dog retrievers, when I had my kennel. My
Speaker 1: my advice to people if they couldn't afford it's like,
Speaker 1: that's fine, but if you buy one out of the
Speaker 1: paper for three or four hundred bucks, make sure it's
Speaker 1: got the health guarantees. A good act, a good breeder
Speaker 1: is gonna give you, you know, is gonna have all
Speaker 1: the certificates you need. They're they're free of all known
Speaker 1: good elbows, good eyes, all that stuff, and they will
Speaker 1: give you now it's right, and they will give you
Speaker 1: a certain figure that if there's any of those problems
Speaker 1: that show up congenitally, if over a certain time. I mean,
Speaker 1: you don't wait for hips to you know, show up
Speaker 1: with a twelve year old dog with bad hips and
Speaker 1: say I want a puppy exactly. But that's what you're
Speaker 1: really looking for. And to get a good, well bred
Speaker 1: dog with the traits you want, good health certificate, you're
Speaker 1: looking at a thousand bucks. I'm gonna ask you that
Speaker 1: a really tough question. Let's say you go down, like
Speaker 1: I said, my brother went to a lab rescue place
Speaker 1: right basically randomly selects a dog. If you had to
Speaker 1: put it in percentage points, what are the what are
Speaker 1: the odds he's gonna walk out of here? He just
Speaker 1: goes and there's ten dogs in there, he randomly selects
Speaker 1: a dog. Don't don't factor in health. Okay, we'll just
Speaker 1: make an assumption about what are the chance he's gonna
Speaker 1: come home with it with a hunting dog that will
Speaker 1: make him proud, versus he gets one whose mind, dad,
Speaker 1: are all the stuff you're top about. I think he's
Speaker 1: gotta good chance. I'm gonna say probably maybe seventy five
Speaker 1: that the dog wants to do the work, but he's
Speaker 1: gonna have to put the work into it to train
Speaker 1: it to do it so he doesn't embarrass embarrassing. That's
Speaker 1: the best. That's the pound puppy. They've got the instincts
Speaker 1: if it's a pure bred lab. They're all I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not a gradient, right, you know, they're not all good,
Speaker 1: and some of them are great. And to your point,
Speaker 1: you know, you you pull one out of the lab
Speaker 1: or the rescue and you get a really good one.
Speaker 1: That's because he was he has the drive in. The
Speaker 1: instincts may have been pretty well. So he's got a
Speaker 1: seventy five with the pound puppy what he got with
Speaker 1: a with a dog, he's got a got something I'm saying,
Speaker 1: with instinct that would actually exactly, he's got to train
Speaker 1: that in. Maybe maybe that drops to depending on if
Speaker 1: you're buying one from a lab rescue, it might drop.
Speaker 1: When said that saying, the guy told me years and
Speaker 1: years ago we talked about dogs, well, the best dog,
Speaker 1: best to the best, don't best to the best. You
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta say this dog's gotta fault. That dog's
Speaker 1: gotta fault. Yeah, but they're both great. Now they both
Speaker 1: got a serious fault and the same fault can repeat itself.
Speaker 1: There's an old saying. The best boxer, heavyweight, lightweight, middleweight
Speaker 1: backs are never stepped off a porch. His life, never
Speaker 1: stepped into the ring. He just didn't bother, So you
Speaker 1: get that dog like you guys got that That dog
Speaker 1: wasn't trained by any handlers, that wasn't trained any nothing,
Speaker 1: and that could have been one of the best dogs
Speaker 1: in the world. And through great dogs, you just never know,
Speaker 1: so you never know who's just right. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you gotta answer the second part. What are this
Speaker 1: dude's odds if he goes through the whole, jumps through
Speaker 1: the hoops, buys like a dog with all the paperwork,
Speaker 1: diplomas or the mom and dad better than the average? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're already better than average. You said that was
Speaker 1: instincts Okay, this is the last thing we're top I
Speaker 1: wanted to re ask the question. You got a guy,
Speaker 1: he's a he's has everything it takes as a beginner trainer.
Speaker 1: He's gonna going to the pound and get a dog,
Speaker 1: and he's got the time. He's got the time that
Speaker 1: is necessary to put into it. What are the odds
Speaker 1: he's gonna pull a good dog versus what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get you to answer. You know what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to get the answer? Does it actually pay? Is it
Speaker 1: actually worth your time to look and be like? Who
Speaker 1: were the mom and dad all that garbage. Is it
Speaker 1: just like is it just random? Or do you really
Speaker 1: get something when you get that? Now I'm gonna maybe
Speaker 1: drop it to But you know the reality is, I
Speaker 1: think most of the labs have good instincts, but not
Speaker 1: all of them are gonna be hunters right out of
Speaker 1: the box. And you know, if you're it depends on
Speaker 1: their age. You know, the old dog new trick thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can train old dogs, but the best
Speaker 1: your best bet is to start with a young dog
Speaker 1: and training and put it in that puppy. Right, so
Speaker 1: one of it was old, one of the puppy. Don'tys
Speaker 1: go with the puppy? Yeah? I would, I would if
Speaker 1: I was going to train one. Yeah, if you got
Speaker 1: down to rescue a six year, six or eight year
Speaker 1: old lab because they're yeah probably because yeah, let me
Speaker 1: qualify those percentages. You're not really comfortable to answering that question.
Speaker 1: Was too much unknown such a classic scientist. It just depends,
Speaker 1: you know. I give you a little annote. My brother
Speaker 1: in law who owned stage, we just saw pictures of
Speaker 1: who was a or is a two thousand plus dollar puppy.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what he pays. I know that
Speaker 1: he's she just got read at six years old for
Speaker 1: the very first time, and he's expecting, you know, to
Speaker 1: make some dividends. His first lab that he trained very
Speaker 1: hard was a rescue pound dog, Bonnie. Amazing dog. I
Speaker 1: love that dog. He had no idea, They just grabbed her.
Speaker 1: He put the time in and it was an amazing lab.
Speaker 1: So there you go. He got both of them all right.
Speaker 1: But you could spend that kind of money and you know,
Speaker 1: for enough high power to lab and come out with
Speaker 1: nothing just oh it's late. But um there's also if
Speaker 1: you want to buy a dog. I think one of
Speaker 1: the best ways to do if you can do it,
Speaker 1: since your budget, your spend a thousand or two thousand
Speaker 1: dollars on a dog, go meet the parents of those dogs,
Speaker 1: spend some time with the d and then because if
Speaker 1: there's something you don't like about either of them dogs,
Speaker 1: you might get that in your puppy. So that but
Speaker 1: it's hard to do these days. These dogs get sold
Speaker 1: on it, you know, through the Internet. I have sold
Speaker 1: dogs from coast to coast, north to south. You deliver
Speaker 1: your dogs. Most of I shipped one to Grease. Yeah
Speaker 1: goal from uh from meeking Os Island and Greece. But
Speaker 1: I say the same thing about spouses for a long time.
Speaker 1: People ask me you advice, and my dude, go hang
Speaker 1: out with the parents, you know really, Oh yeah, you
Speaker 1: people say that, but you don't like your mother in law.
Speaker 1: You're I just can't picture. I can't picture if someone
Speaker 1: had went and said, like like like what I said
Speaker 1: to my wife, Oh, go hang out with Frank and
Speaker 1: Rosy and you'll find out what it's like to be
Speaker 1: married to Steve. I just don't see how you'd never
Speaker 1: get them. I gotta give you that. I think you
Speaker 1: gotta just find like be the idiosyncrasies. It's not the
Speaker 1: real person. But it's a good point. You and Frank
Speaker 1: not the same. We both like stuff real organized, not
Speaker 1: a lot of garbage like spent shotgun shells all over
Speaker 1: the floor and stuff like that. Ronnie thinks cup holders
Speaker 1: are little things that hold empty shots. No one is
Speaker 1: for non spent mixed, the con the consoles for un shot,
Speaker 1: the little door. There's our first spent shock on the shelves.
Speaker 1: All right, we gotta go. This is actually like a
Speaker 1: two part podcast, because we're gonna do part two later.
Speaker 1: Some other times. No, we're gonna do it real soon,
Speaker 1: and we're talking about why we're here, which is the
Speaker 1: real tall bird with the real good meat. We're gon
Speaker 1: we're gonna pick that up, and hopefully we're gonna bring
Speaker 1: in a another guy who shot him mounting of these
Speaker 1: tall good eat birds. Hopefully this is all gonna happen.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna happen. By the meantime. Thanks for
Speaker 1: joining us. Uh tune in more. Also, this is media
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Speaker 1: how that goes the vh X TV or TV dot
Speaker 1: vh X lawa minte, don't go anywhere. It's um, I
Speaker 1: really need to commit this to memory. One minute, my
Speaker 1: buddy set this thing up. It's not I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: just stay tuned here a minute. Me eater dot dot
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Speaker 1: come on help me out man someone. Okay, if you
Speaker 1: guys aren't being helpful, I don't have a phone with
Speaker 1: We're not busting your balls about Okay, Nope, go to
Speaker 1: I'm gonna commit to some memory right now, think of this,
Speaker 1: TV comes last in life. Okay, with that thought, meat
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Speaker 1: watched your hearts content. Um, there's a code you put
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Speaker 1: Ron loves you.