1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is a production of I Heart Radio. For 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: three days now, students have been back in the classroom 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: at Grinnell College, but for many, concentrating on class is difficult. 4 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: One week ago, Grenelle seen your Tammy z Awiki disappeared. 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: Now students here are doing everything they can to help 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: locate Zwiki. That clip you just heard was from one 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: of nearly half a dozen news stories about Tammy Ziwiki's disappearance. 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Within days of her vanishing, nearly everyone she'd met or 9 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: been close to was getting involved in what would become 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: a massive search effort to try and find her. And 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: nowhere was that more noticeable than at Grinnell College in 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Central Iowa. You don't think much about the bad things 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: that happened to people. You never think, oh, well, it's 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: never gonna happen to me or my friends. And now 15 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: it's it's coming set my friends, And now you know, 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: I'm having reality hit you really hard. At the time, 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: I was in Michigan and Tammy was coming. She had 18 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: already left the East Coast and I think was staying 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania with relatives, and she knew that I was 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: going back to college at the same time, and that 21 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: I was looking for a ride because my ride had 22 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: fallen through. Stacy Pappus was a friend and classmate of 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: Tammy's Wikis. They had met their freshman year at Grinnell 24 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: College and each had plans to be back on campus 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: the week before classes started. Stacy says they talked about 26 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: car pooling that last leg of the drive along I 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: eight to Grinnell. Except this was and trying to get 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: in touch with someone in real time, it's far more difficult. 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: We spoke through answer machine messages to each other. Um, 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: you know, she left me a message, and then I 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: left her message because she was checking in with her 32 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: mom as she went along on the road. We're leaving 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: each other messages, and it just was getting too hard. 34 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: So I just found another ride, and I was like, oh, 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: don't worry about it. I got another ride. I'll see 36 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: you there. When I arrived on campus. Of course, you know, 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: whenever you arrive, you have all this stuff to unload, 38 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,959 Speaker 1: and so you're dragging your stuff through the hall of 39 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: what they called the Loggia, which is this covered, screamed 40 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 1: in long porch that connects five or six storms, and 41 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: all along the Logha there was all these handmade paper 42 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 1: signs on the kiosks and on the doors, and they 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: all said, Tammy, call your mom. She's freaking out, Tammy. 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Where are you, Tammy? Call your mom? Tammy were worried 45 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: and I ran into someone who was putting up these 46 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: fires or or something, and I was like, Hey, what's 47 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: going on with Tammy? And she's like, no one can 48 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: find her. We don't know if she even arrived on campus. 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: That's the moment that for me that I realized that 50 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: something was really not not great. Previously, on paper Ghosts, 51 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: they got a call and they said, if you heard 52 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: from Tammy, we can't find Tammy. We had a hard 53 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: time with the police. They just kept telling us from 54 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: the beginning, shella, she'll be back, She'll be back. If 55 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: you've been on our eight cars are just zooming down. 56 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: There is nothing there but cornfields for miles and miles 57 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: and trucks and trucks, trucks all over. It's the main part. 58 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: One of the witnesses, I saw a tractor trailer from 59 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: an orange stripe, and so we had a post drawn 60 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: up and I just starting that trying to find the trunk. 61 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: We knew at that point that something really bad had happened, 62 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: and we knew that whatever situation she was in was 63 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: in a really dangerous one. My name is them William Phelips. 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: I'm an investigative journalist an author of more than forty 65 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: two crime books. This is season three of the paper 66 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: Posts in plain Sight. Despite what Tammy's Wicki's family and 67 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: friends believed, law enforcement assumed that the one year old 68 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: student had taken off on her own, even after her 69 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: car was found abandoned alongside of a busy highway in Illinois. 70 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: In their defense, young people often choose to go off 71 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: the grid. Maybe Tammy wanted to leave. Maybe she had 72 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: a boyfriend no one knew about. But any time I 73 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: broached this idea, someone else in Tammy's life told me 74 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: there was just no way. Tammy was not someone who 75 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: would have packed it in or taken off with someone 76 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: without telling her loved ones. First. Her family knew this, 77 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: all her friends knew this. The police, they're wondering if 78 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: she's run away, and how do we convince them this 79 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: is not who Tammy is and she would not do that, 80 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,679 Speaker 1: and we need to take it seriously. Tammy's best friend, 81 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: Jen Nelson was among many who believed the Illinois State 82 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: Police were slow to act. I was calling all of 83 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: the major networks in Chicago and trying to get them 84 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: to run a story on her, and I got increasingly 85 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: angry because they kept saying that it wasn't newsworthy, and 86 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, for a couple of days, it wasn't newsworthy. 87 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: And a reporter actually told me that there were many 88 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,280 Speaker 1: many young blonde women that went missing every year, so 89 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: this wasn't something that was going to make the news. 90 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: The hands on action from Grinnell's students was beyond what 91 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: anyone could have imagined. During that first week Tammy was missing, 92 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: her friends and classmates formed a sort of grassroots coalition 93 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: and spread out across the region, posting and distributing hundreds 94 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: of missing person flyers at truck stops, convenience stores, and airports. 95 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: They sent more than ten thousand posters to post offices 96 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: in every city and town in Iowa. They knocked on doors, 97 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: asking anyone and everyone if they had seen Tammy. Nobody 98 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: was giving up. We went to gas stations, we went 99 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: to restaurants, road stops, truck stops, and we asked if 100 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: we could put signs up for Tammy. And we had 101 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: a description of the truck that the witnesses saw near 102 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: Tammy's car, and I think the sign said something like, 103 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: have you seen this truck? Amy Joe was one of 104 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: Tammy's teammates at Grennell and the co captain of the 105 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: woman's soccer team. In she says, the notion that one 106 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: of her friends could have been abducted on the side 107 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: of a busy Midwest highway shattered the sense of safety 108 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: that so many young people felt at the time. Grnell 109 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: call it was a was like a bubble. We didn't 110 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: lock doors. We didn't We didn't even lock our bikes. 111 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: We just we had bikes that we just left all 112 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: over campus and they were always there when we wanted 113 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: them again or we took another bike, and we all 114 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: we just shared everything. It was a very safe community. 115 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: We walked everywhere at all hours of the day and night, 116 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: and they were I don't remember any security concerns ever. 117 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: And then this happened. When a loved one goes missing, 118 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: it throws off the entire natural balance of life that 119 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: mundane every day ebb and flow we all take for granted. 120 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: As the days add up, you question everything and wait 121 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: for what feels like will be the inevitable. But Tammy's 122 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: friends and family were relentless and hopeful, which was what 123 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: in my view made people take notice. Here's jen Nels 124 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: and again. Yeah, it became a bigger and bigger story 125 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: as the days went by, I think because the news 126 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: had spread beyond Illinois and Iowa and the conversations were happening. 127 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: There were questions coming up about why there weren't emergency 128 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: call boxes that she could have gone to and called 129 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: for help. By the end of the first week, everyone 130 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: including law enforcement, was working under the assumption that Tammy 131 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: was in trouble. After investigators released information about a white 132 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: semi truck and a person of interest, more witnesses were 133 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: calling into report what they'd seen on the highway the 134 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: afternoon Tammy's car broke down. Some even said they saw 135 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: a girl resembling Tammy running on the side of the 136 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: highway in Iowa. I witness testimony is very fragile, and 137 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about an interstate at the time with people 138 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: going by and so me five or eighty miles an hour. 139 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: If you think about the last time you were on 140 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: the interstate, you know, how much did you pay attention 141 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: to a car broken down? On the side of the 142 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: road if you can even remember the last time you 143 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: saw that. Jeff Padilla is a retired lieutenant with the 144 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: Illinois State Police, which he first joined back in nine 145 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: He wasn't a member of the task force, but would 146 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: go on to work on Tammy's case in later years. 147 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: We did have other information out there about, you know, 148 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: the pickup truck and the white truck, the stripe truck, 149 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: and then we had information that there was another white 150 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: car broken down just east of her. So you know, 151 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: then we were like, okay, we're are people getting confused 152 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: between that broken down white vehicle. So um, you have 153 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: to remember that there was several days between when her 154 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: car broke down and when her family notified the State 155 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: Police that she was missing. However, it didn't get in 156 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: the media right away, and people weren't aware of it 157 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: until probably the week later, and so those tips began 158 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: to come in after that information came out in the media. Um. 159 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: In my opinion, witness information is great, but you really 160 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: need to back it up with some hard evidence. Tammy's 161 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: white Pontiac hatchback was the only thing resembling a crime scene, 162 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: and it was mostly empty. Her large brown faux alligator 163 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: skin purse, which contained her driver's license, was missing, as 164 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: well as her beloved thirty five millimeter camera. Among the 165 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: items left were an empty camera bag and a fountain 166 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: soda cup from Hardy's, which was the last known stop 167 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: Tammy made before stalling on the side of the road. 168 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: Tammy is a very young girl on our way to college. 169 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:49,479 Speaker 1: Who would she willingly go with on a sunny afternoon 170 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: in the summer when her car broke down. There was 171 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: no indication that there was a struggle at all. The 172 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: car was locked, although you have to you can't roll 173 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: on the fact that the car was locked because somebody 174 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: at the tollyard could have locked it. Because there was luggage, 175 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: There was valuables in there. Um, there were items that 176 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: belonged to Tammy that were in there. When law enforcement 177 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: finally went through the car meticulously to see if anything 178 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: could be gleaned forensically, Padilla says, nothing was found. I 179 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: know that her car was processed by crime scene text 180 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: forensic wise. To my knowledge, there was nothing of any 181 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: value to us from the car. We did dust for 182 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: fingerprints along the inside of the front of the car 183 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: and the fan cowling, and all these items and that 184 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: are in the very front of the car, for example, 185 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: if somebody had leaned into the car to look to 186 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: see if there was it was a broken hose or something. 187 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: We tried to get prints from that and there was nothing. 188 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: We didn't get anything. By the eighth day, Tammy's parents, 189 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: including her eldest brother Todd, decided to leave Chicago and 190 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 1: head back home. They were not getting the re sults 191 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: they'd hoped for because nothing other than a search for 192 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: Tammy was happening. Well, I was there. I remember how 193 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: many days basically nothing was happening. We've done all we 194 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: could do, so um I went back to school. It 195 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: was still unresolved. At that point. We were still assuming, 196 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: or at least hoping it would be a happy ending. 197 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: When a loved one goes missing, everything is upbended, jobs 198 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: are put on hold, commitments are dropped, and life becomes 199 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: a series of sleepless nights waiting for that dreaded knock 200 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 1: on the door or the phone call you do not 201 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: want to answer, until finally it happened and everything you 202 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 1: thought you knew changes. I took a phone call in 203 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: the kitchen and it was one of the reporters that 204 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: had been covering her case for quite a while, and 205 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: he said, Jen, don't say anything. I just want you 206 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: to listen. They found a body in Missouri. Hope. It's 207 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: a strange concept for anyone who has been in a 208 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: similar situation to the Zowiki family. You want to believe 209 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: hope is real, even when every ounce of your soul 210 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: fights against it and tells you something different. When more 211 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: than a week passes and you have not heard from 212 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: a loved one who has gone missing and a body 213 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: has been found, worst case scenarios begin to dominate every thought, 214 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: day and night. Hope turns to despair. You despise hope, 215 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: and it becomes nothing more than a shallow, pointless word. 216 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: At this stage, all you can do is think about 217 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: the horror of your impending reality. It is by far 218 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: the most heartbreaking aspect of the work I do, bringing 219 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: the victims family members back to the moment when the 220 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: proverbial knock on the door finally comes. Well, they had 221 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: found a body alongside the head, and they they hadn't 222 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: identified it at that time yet, but they wanted us 223 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: to know. And when you heard that it was in Missouri, 224 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: what were you thinking? We weren't thinking. We didn't expect 225 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: it when you got that call. Did you know when 226 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: your gut or did you think I'm gonna be hopeful? 227 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: Be hopeful? We're positive people, right right, Yeah, and now 228 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: we were helpful. By day nine, the Wikis had received 229 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: word that the body of a female had been found 230 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: in Sarcoxi, Missouri. At first, they were skeptical. Sar Coxy 231 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: was five miles away, a seven hour drive from where 232 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: Tammy went missing in Illinois. Plus initial media reports claimed 233 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: the young woman police found had reddish hair. Tammy was blonde. 234 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: Here's Stacy Pappas, whom you heard at the beginning of 235 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: the episode. I had heard of rumor that a body 236 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: was found in Missouri, and a lot of people had 237 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: a very bad feeling about it. I still didn't think 238 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: that it was her because Tammy was was blonde and 239 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: never had dyed her hair to my knowledge, and um, 240 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: you know, I just I was like, well, it can't 241 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: be can't be Tammy because Tammy's not a redhead. Authorities 242 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: were careful not to jump to conclusions either. During the 243 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: early nineties, there were dozens of missing young women in 244 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: the Midwest, some even fitting Tammy's description. Don Laken, the 245 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: Lawrence County corner at the time, spoke to the media 246 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: about the discovery. There's nothing that can be said because 247 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: until we have a plaustive identification, you know, I wouldn't 248 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: put any family through that one way or the other. 249 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: Thin just no family deserves to go through that, And 250 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: this is a very hard situation, no matter whose childhood was. 251 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: Police confirmed via dental records that the body found in 252 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: Missouri was in fact Tammy's a Wicky. That reddish color 253 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: in her hair was the result of dye from the 254 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: clay and soil on the ground. Worst of all, it 255 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: was evident she suffered a brutal death. When does the 256 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: identification take place? When do you know for sure? It 257 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: wasn't too long after that. It was only a few 258 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: days after that that we knew for sure and they 259 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: called you with some information. Did you have to send 260 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: dental records or anything like that? Now they had records, 261 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: I think they had records from the college. And did 262 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: they ever ask you to come down and identify her. No, 263 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: they said we could if we wanted to, and you 264 00:16:54,360 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: chose not to. Moments like these become seer in your 265 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 1: mind forever. It's the kind of heartbreak you think cannot 266 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: get any worse. Here's Tammy's brother, Todd. I don't even 267 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: remember now whether it was my father or mother who 268 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: finally told me what had happened, that they had found 269 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: her to this day, I remember being in my room 270 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: just getting it on the phone and just collapsing on 271 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: the floor. I just couldn't believe it. I mean, at 272 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: that point, it just hit me like a ton of bricks. 273 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: I just had not really thought about anything to that 274 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: point except finding her. And I was so wrapped up 275 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,719 Speaker 1: in the anxiety and the effort and doing everything we 276 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: could to try to cooperate and come to a happy ending, 277 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: that it never even really occurred to me that this 278 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: might be how it ended for Tammy's friends. The feeling 279 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: was much the same. I just remember feeling physically physically 280 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: ill when I found out that it was Tammy, like 281 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: sick to my stomach, and also just shock. I've never 282 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: had a death so close to me, that of someone 283 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: my age that wasn't a grandparent or a great grandparents, 284 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 1: so was it was just unbelievable that that could happen, 285 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: that could have been any one of us. Going back 286 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: to what I mentioned, in the last episode. When I 287 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: decided to look into Tammy's case, I knew I needed 288 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: to think outside the traditional box, beyond those theories and 289 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: sightings of a semi tractor trailer truck with two rust 290 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: colored stripes. And the more I heard about Tammy's character, 291 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: the more I became skeptical of the idea that she 292 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: would have accepted help from a trucker. Let me ask 293 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: you this. Let's say the person pulls up and there 294 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: are a cop, they have a badge, or they have 295 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: a collar, and they're a priest, or there's somebody else 296 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: in a trustworthy part of life. What would she have 297 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: done at that point? I don't think she would get 298 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: in the car with them. I guess if it were 299 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: a police officer offering to bring a tow truck, you know, 300 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: that might be one thing. But it's a question you 301 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: could ask every one of us when we were that 302 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: age and driving. I mean, my car broke down on 303 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: the highway a few years after Tammy died, and a 304 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: truck pulled up behind me, and the driver got out 305 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: and came to offer me help. And I opened my 306 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: window half an inch and he said, you know, I'm 307 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: glad you're not getting out of the car and just 308 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: stopping to let you know that I've called the police 309 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: and they're on their way to help you. A number 310 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 1: of people I spoke with said they bought a cell 311 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: phone in the months after Tammy's murder. What's so discouraging 312 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: about it is if this had been, you know, three 313 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: years later, she would have had a cell phone in 314 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: the car. It was right before widespread access to cell 315 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: phones came around, where a young girl, you know, called 316 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: subtrunck with a cell phone or a newer even right, 317 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: And you can think of all the different things that 318 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: could have been different. Tammy's friends and classmates also helped 319 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: found a group on campus called Fearless, which focused on 320 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: the safety of young women and fought to get emergency 321 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: call boxes installed along major highways nationwide. Everyone was desperate 322 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: to wrestle something positive from the tragedy. As for Hank 323 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: and Joanne's WICKI, they appeared on Oprah Winfrey's talk show 324 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: one month after their daughter's murder. It was part of 325 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: a segment about the dangerous women face driving alone. I 326 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: was asking Joe Ane Wiki during the break, who do 327 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 1: they suspect as Tammy's killer? Is it a serial killer 328 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: or do they have any clue? I've put it this 329 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: right in the authorities haven't been too free with information 330 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: with uh. All we know is there following leads and 331 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: beyond that, do you feel the killers will be found 332 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: or killer as the days go on? I'm not as 333 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,639 Speaker 1: an optimistic as my wife because of over the period 334 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: of time, as we've seen how the authorities operate, and 335 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: they i'll call them archaic methods of even communication and 336 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: and doing their work, I do have doubt. Hope turned 337 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: to anger, then outrage. Who would do this? What happened? 338 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: The first of many questions began to haunt not only 339 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: investigators but those closest to Tammy. So at that point 340 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 1: I think we really turned to how do we catch 341 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: this this person? How do we catch this monster? Because 342 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: if it's been done to Tammy, it's going to be 343 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: done again to somebody else. During a trip I took 344 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: to Illinois in the summer of I met up with 345 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: Marty McCarthy, one of the officers who worked on Tammy's case. 346 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: I paid him a visit after I spent some time 347 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: earlier in the day parked near mile marker eight three 348 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: in LaSalle County, Illinois to see the spot where Tammy's 349 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: car had broken down. Yeah, yeah, glad you got down. 350 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: A former Illinois State Police investigator, Marty is a law 351 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: enforcement man through and through. He has been retired for 352 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: more than twenty years, but still spends much of his 353 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: free time investigating eating what happened to Tammy. Marty is 354 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: a big dude, six ft two and solid. He's also 355 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: a towering figure in this case. He's tenacious, driven, and 356 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: as vocal as he comes across. I found him to 357 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: be quite charming. Have a cup of coffee or a coke, 358 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: um diet coke, If you have it, thank you. I've 359 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: met many cops like Marty throughout my career, those detectives 360 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: who cannot let go of a case. This is that 361 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: case from Marty, the one he could never solve. It 362 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: gnaws at him, and this is pretty We discussed how 363 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 1: fast and ferocious tammy story gained national attention and how 364 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: that led to a bigger conversation about roadside safety for 365 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: young women. People were desperate to know how to get 366 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: out of a situation similar to Tammy's. The press got 367 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,719 Speaker 1: involved big time, so it was a national thing. Everybody said, oh, 368 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: my god, could have been my daughter. It's college girl 369 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: going on a highway. People started buying phones. Guys and 370 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: taskforce are running out buying phone they saw whoa it's 371 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: could happen to my wife, got my daughter? Somebody can 372 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: breakdown on a highway, and of course interest groups for 373 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: parents college putting out things, where's Pammy got that type 374 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: of thing. Marty explained that in order to really understand 375 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: the complexity of what happened in the investigation and the 376 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: mistakes he believes were made, I needed to look at 377 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: how the case was handled from day one. Current law 378 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: enforcement working on Tammy's case have issues with his candor 379 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: and his public criticism about their work. All of you 380 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 1: don't how could how could I fight it? A retired cop. 381 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: After he retired in two thousand one, Marty continued to 382 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: make suggestions to the I s P his theories, things 383 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: he discovered, but he went unheard. So he began talking 384 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: to the media about those theories and the issues he 385 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: had with the investigation well before then. One of those 386 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: issues was that tip Marty previously mentioned to me, the 387 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: one he says was received within days of Tammy's disappearance 388 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: and went ignored. By police. It came from a woman 389 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: who said she was driving eastbound on I eighty when 390 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 1: she saw a blue or green pickup truck parked behind 391 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: Tammy's car along the westbound side of the highway. She 392 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: claimed it was some time between three thirty and five 393 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: pm that the hood of Tammy's vehicle was propped open 394 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: and Tammy was standing in front of it wearing shorts. 395 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: The woman's name actually appears on that I s P 396 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: Tip sheet a source gave me. On this sheet is 397 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: a list of eyewitness tips that are deemed credible enough 398 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: to lie. Each tip would then be assigned to an 399 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: officer whose job it was to run it down engage 400 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: its importance to the case. If warranted, a written statement 401 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: from the witness was taken. In this case, the woman's 402 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: tip called for just that I'm just gonna read from 403 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: this statement. The vehicle was older model and was parked 404 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: very close to the back bumper of the white vehicle. 405 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 1: The female was standing up front of the disabled vehicle. 406 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 1: The driver of the vehicle park behind the white vehicle 407 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: is described as white male, five ft eight six ft tall, 408 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: brown hair, in his twenties, thin build, and wearing dark 409 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: colored short sleeved shirt and a pair of light brown 410 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: tan pants. What she told me just add that. She says, 411 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm coming back eastbound from Princeton. I see this, and 412 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: I immediately see and not recognizes this woman's car has 413 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: broken down, and she slows down and she looks over 414 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,719 Speaker 1: there and she gets this and sees this guy and 415 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: just gets this eerie feeling there's something wrong with this 416 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: that I should stop, But I got this assignment. But 417 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: there's no doubt in her mind that was Tammy's eye 418 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: working that she saw. So she goes back home, a 419 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't do anything at that point, and then calls 420 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: in on it becomes an issue. In my view, this 421 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: tip is significant. Here's a woman who slowed down, took notice, 422 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: and thought about what she'd seen. Hours later, when she 423 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: saw coverage about Tammy's disappearance, she called it in and 424 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: gave specifics. On top of all that, I've learned that 425 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,360 Speaker 1: this woman had impeccable credibility and wasn't someone to ignore 426 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: in the community. That all said, however, I sp Lieutenant 427 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: Jeff Padilla said there was a second white car that 428 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: was broken down on the same highway on the same day, 429 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: So I have to leave room for the idea that 430 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: this eyewitness could have been talking about that vehicle, and 431 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: just about every other statement the I s P collected 432 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: eyewitnesses described seeing a white tractor trailer parked in front 433 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: of Tammy's car, and only one description details a semi 434 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: with two rust colored stripes. That description usurped all others. 435 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: It's the one the I s P ran within the media, 436 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: the one drivers all over the country would fixate on 437 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: an eighteen wheel tractor trailer truck with two distinctive rust 438 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: colored diagonal stripes painted in the middle of the trailer. 439 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: I asked every investigator I spoke with, why the I 440 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: s P decided to go public with a composite drawing 441 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: of that one particular vehicle, solely based on one witness 442 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: eight Why not also release any information about the pickup truck? 443 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: It was truck truck, truck truck. And let me just 444 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: say this, after the body is found in Missouri, everybody 445 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: who else kills someone and drive six with a body 446 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: It kind of informed and gave racity to that that 447 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: it was a truck. I remember running down these truck leads. 448 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: There were a lot of different descriptions of the truck, 449 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: because there may have been several other and they may 450 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: have been a mile he had, they may have been 451 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: two mild Give me what the emphasis was so strong 452 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: on the truck that they just let everything else go. 453 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: Throughout my career, one of the things I've heard over 454 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: and over again from detectives, serial killers, and criminals is this, 455 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: if you are going to put out a composite of 456 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: a suspect or a vehicle, you had better be damn 457 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: sure it's the person or vehicle you are looking for, 458 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: Otherwise if you're just pointing the public in the wrong direction. 459 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: It's a point I brought up with Karen Donnelly, who 460 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: was the LaSalle County State's attorney from Hi Karen, nice 461 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: to meet you. As the head law enforcement official for 462 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: the jurisdiction, part of her job involved meeting with local 463 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: police to hear about their active cases. Tammy's case was 464 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: assigned a new set of investigators in recent years. It 465 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: was brought to Karen's desk. Why is it do you 466 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: think that they went with that drawing and put that 467 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: out there as a composite of the possible vehicle behind 468 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: her instead of the other witness statements of a nondescript 469 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: truck with nothing on it. We never questioned what the 470 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: investigators did with the cases. What they put out, that 471 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: was their purview, not mine or not anybody's that sits 472 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 1: in that state's attorney seat. So we left the investigation 473 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: to the investigators, and that was what they went with, 474 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: was that truck description. They did check around with many 475 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: local trucking companies and nationwide to see if anybody matched 476 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: that type of semi There's a lot of different ones. 477 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: I started looking on the road myself to see if 478 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: there was anything like that, and there's so many that 479 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: maybe somebody driving by it, you know, sixty seventy saw 480 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: something different than what it actually was. So it's hard 481 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: to say. Because the trucks go up and down that way, 482 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: it's very well traversed by semison, you know, commerce. To 483 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 1: the investigator's credit, the initial focus on the tractor trailer 484 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: did make sense. Tammy disappeared from one major interstate and 485 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: was found alongside another same as i AD. Interstate forty 486 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: four in Missouri is a heavily traffic commercial trucking route, 487 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: and while most people don't have a reason to drive 488 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: several hundred miles in the day, that type of trip 489 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: is common for a trucker, just asked the guy who 490 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: found Tammy's body. I pulled off an exit ramp and 491 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: started down the other side, and when I turned to 492 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: walk around in the front of the truck, I've seen 493 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: it laying there and you could actually tell it was 494 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: a body. On the next episode of Paper Ghosts and 495 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: they said, hey, and we're trying to verify that the 496 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: body that was found here was Tammy Zwiki And I said, 497 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: what body. I've never seen a murder like this. Ever, 498 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,959 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to understand how that happened. So 499 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: did the Illinois State Police update you each day or 500 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: they were doing They were just stuff. I'll tell you 501 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: what what you need to know when you need to 502 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: know it. She was wearing a pair of shorts from 503 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: a soccer club that she played for, but was what 504 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: was very important to us was that the patch from 505 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,080 Speaker 1: that soccer club was cut off the leg of those shorts. 506 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: Paper Ghosts is written and executive produced by Me and 507 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: William Phelps and I Heart executive producer Christina Everett. Additional 508 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: writing by our supervising producer Julia Weaver. Our associate producer 509 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: is Darby Masters Audio editing and mixing by Christian Bowman 510 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: and Abou zafar Our. Series theme number four four two 511 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: is written and performed by Thomas Phelps and Tom Mooney. 512 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I 513 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 514 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.