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Speaker 2: receive fifteen percent off. Very difficult to keep the line

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Speaker 2: between the past.

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Speaker 3: And the price.

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Speaker 4: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

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Speaker 4: and take possession of a living be We may be

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Speaker 4: through with the past, but the past is not through

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Speaker 4: with us.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show. A Movie the

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Speaker 2: Week podcast devoted to a classic film and the way

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Speaker 2: it's shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Tasha

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Speaker 2: Robinson here again.

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Speaker 4: With Keith Phipps and Scott Tobias.

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Speaker 2: Our regular co host jennevie Coski said she's been following

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Speaker 2: house flies through the walls again. We really need to

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Speaker 2: get her on some new meds. In our last episode,

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Speaker 2: we discussed Phantasm on nineteen seventy nine super indie horror

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Speaker 2: movie based on a dream and about us, disjointed as

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Speaker 2: one though it made tens of millions of dollars on

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Speaker 2: a three hundred thousand dollars budget and submitted mid twenties

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Speaker 2: director Don Coscarelli junior as a do it yourself called

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Speaker 2: horror director. Costcarelli made his first future film at age eighteen,

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Speaker 2: and it earned him a short term contract at Universal.

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Speaker 2: That was a lot harder to do in the nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventies than it is right at this moment, when digital

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Speaker 2: cameras and cheap visual effects software have dramatically lowered the

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Speaker 2: barrier to entry for would be young filmmakers, and studios

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Speaker 2: are actively hunting for young talent with a proven fan base.

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Speaker 2: That brings us to twenty year old Cain Parsons, now

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Speaker 2: the youngest director to ever hit number one of the

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Speaker 2: box off with his eight twenty four backed movie back Rooms.

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Speaker 2: The film follows an angry, alcoholic and failing furniture store

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Speaker 2: owner named Clark played by Chiwatel Edgiopoor as he discovers

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Speaker 2: a portal to a mysterious eliminal space in his store's

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Speaker 2: basement and starts exploring that space, which is defined by

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Speaker 2: monochromatic rooms, distorted furniture, seemingly endless space, and an unseen monster. Eventually,

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Speaker 2: he disappears, and his therapist, Mary played by Renata Reinseieve,

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Speaker 2: comes looking for him and finds her patient is more

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Speaker 2: deeply troubled than she ever realized. Directed by Parsons, who

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Speaker 2: co scripted with Will Sudek, the movie is a companion

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Speaker 2: piece too and continuation of Parson's viral hit YouTube series,

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Speaker 2: which is derived from a community creepy pasta, which was

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Speaker 2: derived from an anonymous four Chan post. You don't need

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Speaker 2: to know what any of that means, or to have

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Speaker 2: read or watched any past back Room's content to follow

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Speaker 2: what the movie's doing, at least up until the third

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Speaker 2: act reveals, which takes some symbolic unpacking that has nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with past brooms content. We're not going to

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Speaker 2: get into a whole lot of that unpacking here today,

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Speaker 2: simply because there's so much of it, and there are

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Speaker 2: so many other things to talk about, given the phenomena

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Speaker 2: around the back rooms, where it came from, how it's

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Speaker 2: been received, how people have responded to it, and simply

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Speaker 2: everything else that there is to discuss around and about

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Speaker 2: this movie. We'll get into all of that as we

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Speaker 2: enter the back rooms.

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Speaker 3: I found something in the store.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what did you find.

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Speaker 3: The place? About a place? Anyone there?

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Speaker 4: Look, I know how this sounds, but you gotta understand

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Speaker 4: it's massive in there.

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Speaker 3: I'll say, I don't believe you. Okay, I'm gonna come

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Speaker 3: back here with proof. All Right, you feel me? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: follow my lead. What is this? That's what I'm trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out.

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Speaker 4: I've been here every night since I found the place,

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Speaker 4: and I still barely scratch the surface.

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Speaker 3: I just take a song.

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Speaker 2: So back rooms, guys, I have a sense for what

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Speaker 2: Keith thought of it. But Scott, you just saw this

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Speaker 2: last night, I believe.

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Speaker 3: A couple of nights ago. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I saw it in a full house on a Tuesday

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Speaker 4: with my fifteen year old, my horror enjoying fifteen year old,

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Speaker 4: who did have a bit of a death grip on me.

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Speaker 4: She's she's made up. She's made of tough stuff. But

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Speaker 4: there are parts of the movie where she took my

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Speaker 4: hand and grip it quite tightly. So she was properly

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Speaker 4: freaked out by this movie, and I was to a degree.

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Speaker 4: I think it was more intrigued by it than scared.

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Speaker 4: But I was really intrigued because it is a film

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Speaker 4: that reminded me of other films, certainly of films like Poltergeist,

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Speaker 4: of Phenomena, like The Blair Witch Project. You know, the

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Speaker 4: other films kind of come to mind as well, but

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Speaker 4: it's its own thing. And I liked being invited to

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Speaker 4: explore this space that never seems to end, that keeps

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Speaker 4: building upon itself, that has all these different layers, that

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Speaker 4: is explored in a way that it keeps revealing new things,

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Speaker 4: sustains interest, you know, and it seems to deepen in

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Speaker 4: danger and you almost feel like you're falling into quicksand

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Speaker 4: or something, where as you get deeper and deeper into

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Speaker 4: this world and you can't kind of get out of it,

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Speaker 4: and you know, falling at that speed of it. Having

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Speaker 4: this almost sort of agonized saying tention to it. I

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Speaker 4: thought it was very effective as a horror strategy and

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Speaker 4: you know, it's visually exciting. And then I think Parsons

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Speaker 4: also benefits from casting way seemingly, way above the movie's weight.

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Speaker 4: I mean, these are these are the two lead actors.

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Speaker 4: These are A plus performers, and they make such a

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Speaker 4: huge difference in the movie. It's not like, you know,

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Speaker 4: you think about like a young director making a first

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Speaker 4: time horror movie. You just kind of got to get

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Speaker 4: whoever's willing to take a little bit of money. You know,

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Speaker 4: somebody's young and hungry. It's like, but here you actually

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Speaker 4: have two performers who are proven excellent actors, and they

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Speaker 4: really kind of bring a lot of energy and a

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Speaker 4: lot of emotional weight to the material that it desperately needs.

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Speaker 4: I think because it has kind of an internal logic

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Speaker 4: that's a little bit hard to unpack and some themes

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Speaker 4: that are a little hard to unpacked. But over allays

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Speaker 4: quite impressed by this movie.

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Speaker 3: What about you? What about what about you? Toash?

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Speaker 4: I assume you're on board, given that you you interviewed Parsons,

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Speaker 4: and I think it seems like you've gone down the

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Speaker 4: rabbit hole quite a bit with with this movie.

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Speaker 2: I have and uh, we'll get into that shortly the

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Speaker 2: short versions. I love this movie and I'm kind of

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Speaker 2: obsessed with it, but I want to hear bigger thoughts

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Speaker 2: from Keith. Even before that, though, you mentioned these two

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Speaker 2: actors both kind of you know, punching above the weight

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Speaker 2: of this movie. Renata, we know from Sentimental Value and

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Speaker 2: Worst Person in the World, both movies that people here

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Speaker 2: really loved. Chotel Edgiapoor has just done so much at

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Speaker 2: this point that's been so good.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: When I when I was referencing, you know, writing with

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Speaker 2: this movie and doing you know, your your typical name

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Speaker 2: one movie that they've been in when you cite the actors,

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Speaker 2: I was like, what what do we cite for him?

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Speaker 2: So both of you just real quick, I'm curious if

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Speaker 2: you have a like a top of the mind favorite

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Speaker 2: Chewtel Edge of four movie.

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Speaker 5: I mean, when when I first think of him, I

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Speaker 5: most immediately think of amostokas always playing introduction to him.

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Speaker 5: He's also he's most guys, is just inso much and

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Speaker 5: he's always good. You almost kind of start to take

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Speaker 5: him for it, and sometimes he does like a lot

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Speaker 5: of supporting stuff. So it's it's good to see him, like,

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Speaker 5: you know, in the middle of something, although that was

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Speaker 5: also true of Life of Chuck, another movie which he's

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Speaker 5: very good, but is he not good? Point me to

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Speaker 5: a bad four cannot cannot?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think I think Dirty Pretty Things

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Speaker 4: was kind of a big moment for him. I mean

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Speaker 4: that that was an early film, but Twelve Years a Slave.

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Speaker 4: I saw that again recently, again with the same daughter

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Speaker 4: that I took to see back.

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Speaker 3: Room, So that was interesting.

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Speaker 4: Actually even realized that was the same guy. So that

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Speaker 4: was you a proof of his range. And and I

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Speaker 4: think again there's just a depth that he brings to

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Speaker 4: the performance. It's just I mean, we've seen horror movies

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Speaker 4: where you have characters who are trapped in these sorts

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Speaker 4: of alternative worlds or whatever, and they're scared and they're

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Speaker 4: yelling or whatever. It's just like it just feels like

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Speaker 4: often those roles go to the handsome dude or angeneu

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Speaker 4: of the moment.

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Speaker 3: They don't go to.

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Speaker 4: Actors that would you'd throw a war it's on the regular,

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Speaker 4: And I think it makes a big difference for this

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Speaker 4: movie to have that kind of gravity.

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Speaker 2: For sure, well, especially given some of the stuff that

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Speaker 2: eventually happens with Clark. Those are all really good examples.

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Speaker 2: Dirty Pretty Things in particular really stands out for me.

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Speaker 2: I feel like the movie that just really defined him

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Speaker 2: for me was a Red Belt movie that I go

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Speaker 2: back to from time to time, and this is a

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Speaker 2: reminder that I still haven't seen Kinky Boots and really

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Speaker 2: should also really great in Children of Men. But I

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Speaker 2: think you have a good point and that I can't

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Speaker 2: think of a role that he threw away or just

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Speaker 2: kind of showed up for. He's just a really strong

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Speaker 2: presence Keith zooming back in or back out. I'm not

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Speaker 2: even sure at this point. What's your big picture take

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Speaker 2: on back Rooms.

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Speaker 5: I was intrigued by it, but also really freaked out

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Speaker 5: by it. I will say I've seen it twice now

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Speaker 5: and knowing what's coming made it a little less disturbing

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Speaker 5: to me. But I think it would be true of

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Speaker 5: almost any horror movie. But there's something about I've been

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Speaker 5: trying to think about why the whole back room's concept

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Speaker 5: caught on to begin with, because the original photograph apparently

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Speaker 5: was a Wisconsin furniture store that's being renovated, right and

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Speaker 5: to come and cleared out. It was being renovated, not

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Speaker 5: innately spooky, unless you're really scared of furniture stores. But

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Speaker 5: I mean there's something about the way it's used here,

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Speaker 5: because these are like just spaces you'd find anywhere. They

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Speaker 5: could be like a church basement or a corner of

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Speaker 5: an office that's been emptied out or something, and that

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Speaker 5: these sort of these cheap personality lists, easy to reproduce

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Speaker 5: spaces you see everywhere, and here they kind of they're

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Speaker 5: kind of growing like a cancer. It almost feels like

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Speaker 5: an extension of like sort of the disposable, you know,

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Speaker 5: the culture disposability that created them to begin with, in

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Speaker 5: a way, I mean, I don't know. I mean it's

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Speaker 5: like the movie itself, it's in some ways kind of fuzzy,

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Speaker 5: but it just thinks there's something about using this sort

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Speaker 5: of thoughtlessly constructed spaces that were made for human inhabitants

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Speaker 5: that seemed like resistant to any sort of human warmth whatsoever.

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Speaker 5: Like I I in this film, I'm so I found

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Speaker 5: the buzzing of the fluorescent lighting is so familiar because

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Speaker 5: you hear it all the time, right, Yeah, But also

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Speaker 5: it's just so disturbing the way it was so inexcapable.

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Speaker 5: I think it kind of like turns up what's frustrating

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Speaker 5: about going to these inhumane spaces, It turns it up

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Speaker 5: to eleven, and then it makes you sit in them

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Speaker 5: for the length of the movie. Beyond all the other

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Speaker 5: creepy stuff, which I'm sure we'll get into whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: But it's kind of Joe Versus the Volcano esque when

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Speaker 4: you say that's the beginning of a joke, Yeah, remember that,

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Speaker 4: or the fluorescent lights you know, are blinking and it ever,

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Speaker 4: he just drives him mad, and you get that contrast

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Speaker 4: of him setting out to the high season going on

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Speaker 4: this very colorful adventure as a contrast, or even just

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Speaker 4: something like uh, you know, movie like office space anytime

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Speaker 4: you're in these places where or it's just they really

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Speaker 4: have been designed as like thoughtlessly, carelessly. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: fluorescent lights everywhere, at which if you've ever worked for

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Speaker 4: an extensive period of time under fluorescent lights, they do

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Speaker 4: they're unflattering, they're very annoying, they have the buzz, The

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Speaker 4: spaces feel kind of you know, green and blotchy, and

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Speaker 4: so just sort of turn the dial up on that

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Speaker 4: just a little bit and then making the design of

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Speaker 4: it nonsensical and then almost esher like at a certain point,

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Speaker 4: you know, as you go along, or it's sort of

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Speaker 4: like office Space meets Alis in Wonderland of this movie

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Speaker 4: kind of meets also. I was also thinking in terms

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Speaker 4: of influences being John Malkovich and Schenectic Key, New York.

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Speaker 4: Also felt like the kind of infrastructure of this movie,

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Speaker 4: you know, a little bit something kind of the absurdity

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Speaker 4: of those movies as well.

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Speaker 2: That is a lot of movie references in movie connections.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to take it in a different direction when

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Speaker 2: I think about why. I mean, from the moment Clark

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Speaker 2: enters that first room, when he steps through the wall

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Speaker 2: and into that first room, I was alarmed, And I've

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Speaker 2: spent a lot of time sort of examining that, that impulse,

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Speaker 2: that feeling of you know, he's in a big, anonymous space.

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Speaker 2: It's well lit. You know, there are parsons both here

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Speaker 2: and in the shorts on YouTube does play a lot

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Speaker 2: with dark spaces that you can't quite see into, where

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Speaker 2: your eyes kind of start suggesting things that might or

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Speaker 2: might not be ominous. But for the most part, these

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Speaker 2: spaces are just like very well lit, and I found

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Speaker 2: that almost creepier than darkness. So one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: being we're just kind of not used to that in

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Speaker 2: a horror movie. But I think maybe more so these

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00:14:06,365 --> 00:14:10,324
Speaker 2: spaces in the YouTube series, Parsons was working with Blender.

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Speaker 2: He was kind of doing these things is like a

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Speaker 2: filmmaking test in Blender, and as a result, they all

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Speaker 2: kind of have a generic kind of hard line to

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Speaker 2: digital space feel to them. To me, watching Clark navigate

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Speaker 2: these spaces, which in the movie are are actual, real

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Speaker 2: like built spaces, Apparently the set was enough of a

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Speaker 2: maze that people could actually get lost in it. I

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Speaker 2: look at these spaces of like contiguous rooms that you're

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Speaker 2: kind of navigating, not quite first person but maybe kind

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Speaker 2: of third person, that have unlikely like digital details, and

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Speaker 2: I think video game specifically, I think of some of

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Speaker 2: like the earliest first and third person shooters, you know,

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Speaker 2: stuff like Doom, Like, of course, you expect a monster

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Speaker 2: to come looming around the corner. You're in this like

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Speaker 2: very clear space where you can see all the way

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Speaker 2: down the corridor. Something is going to appear from around

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Speaker 2: the corridor and attack you. So I feel like that's

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Speaker 2: one of the references that I'm feeling when I feel

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Speaker 2: this horrid alarm at every moment that Clark spens exploring

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Speaker 2: in the back rooms. But another part of it is

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Speaker 2: just the harsh lighting, the monochromatic setting, all of it

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Speaker 2: feels surreal, and in a completely surreal space, there are

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Speaker 2: no expectations. You just you have no idea what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen next, because there's nothing real to pen anything to,

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Speaker 2: and every object you run across in this space is

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Speaker 2: unreal in a way. It's twisted or distorted or in

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Speaker 2: the wrong place or matched up or merged with something else,

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Speaker 2: or bleeding into the walls or through the floors again

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Speaker 2: like a badly designed video game. So for me, it's

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Speaker 2: maybe just the unreality of it leads me to expect

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Speaker 2: at least something unreal and dangerous to happen at any moment.

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Speaker 5: It feels like it's sudden the early nineties, But it

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Speaker 5: also feels like there's like this anticipation of what's just

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Speaker 5: around the corner, because yeah, I also thought about the

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Speaker 5: video game design thing about like how you know you

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Speaker 5: could just like, oh, here, let's just do this and

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Speaker 5: put a door up here. It doesn't make any sense, aha,

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Speaker 5: sort of like what this is is happening here? I

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Speaker 5: find that the creatures we encounter later, which are human

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Speaker 5: but not quite right, just remind me so much of

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Speaker 5: what AI does when it's a little off. One of

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Speaker 5: the more interesting readings I read of this film was

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Speaker 5: from a writer I'd never heard of before, called Carol Grant,

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Speaker 5: And one thing they point out is, and I don't

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Speaker 5: think that this might not have been their idea originally either,

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Speaker 5: that part of what makes it scary to viewers of

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Speaker 5: a certain age is that all these spaces that should

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Speaker 5: be filled with people that aren't are kind of echo

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Speaker 5: the COVID experience as well, and the idea of like

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Speaker 5: being alone in places where ordinarily there'd be people is

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Speaker 5: it's a particular kind of a nightmare. It's kind of

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Speaker 5: situated in a particular moment in history. I just I

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Speaker 5: think it's, you know, don't even know how much it's

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Speaker 5: by design, so much as this is also vague that

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Speaker 5: you can kind of project certain fears or certain influences

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Speaker 5: onto it. But whatever it is, I think it really works.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's a micro movement of these movies that

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Speaker 4: are already that we're already seeing, movies like Skin and

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Speaker 4: a Rink, which was made for you for virtually nothing

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Speaker 4: and is really just you know, a space and vibes

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Speaker 4: based horror movie, or I think the Jane Schoenbron films

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Speaker 4: that we've been seeing too. We're all going to the

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Speaker 4: World's Fair. I saw the TV Glow presumably their new

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Speaker 4: one also kind of deal with these spaces that kind

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Speaker 4: of arise out of a sense of loneliness being kind

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Speaker 4: of a critical aspect of it, of isolation being a

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Speaker 4: critical aspect of it, and everything sort of manifesting from there.

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Speaker 4: So I think there's something to be said for that

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Speaker 4: of these horror films kind of reflecting the experiences and

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Speaker 4: the psychees and the fears of a younger generation of

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Speaker 4: you know, Parsons generation.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that takes us into an arena of

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Speaker 2: maybe discussing some of the things Parsons has said about

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Speaker 2: how to interpret and understand kind of the big symbology here,

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Speaker 2: which brings us to Scott's favorite topic ever, extra textuals.

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Speaker 2: We're going to get into that after this break. The

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Speaker 2: next Picture Show is presented by Regal Unlimited all you

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Speaker 2: understand what's really going on. Sometimes you want to watch

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364
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Speaker 2: my big question about extra texturals on this movie. Like

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00:20:04,805 --> 00:20:08,445
Speaker 2: I interviewed Parsons, I published a couple of pieces with him,

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Speaker 2: kind of a pre release, a non spoiler piece, a

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Speaker 2: straight up spoiler let's talk about the ending piece, and

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Speaker 2: then a just asking him like random questions that were

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Speaker 2: kind of like digging at me, like what's up with

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Speaker 2: the seagulls? So, you know, I got kind of exposed

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Speaker 2: to a bunch of different like very specific you know,

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Speaker 2: him answering my personal concerns about this movie. But one

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Speaker 2: of the things that he said in passing was that

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Speaker 2: to him, a lot of this is about AI and

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Speaker 2: about kind of the moment in culture that we're in,

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00:20:43,725 --> 00:20:48,285
Speaker 2: even not with AI, where everything is IP and everything

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00:20:48,325 --> 00:20:51,725
Speaker 2: is just repeated and iterated on endlessly. If the back

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00:20:51,805 --> 00:20:56,525
Speaker 2: rooms is a space that remembers things badly and reproduces

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00:20:56,605 --> 00:20:59,605
Speaker 2: them over and over until they've lost all fidelity, Like

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Speaker 2: that's basically what you're talking about when you're talking about

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Speaker 2: a defining piece of culture that people copy and copy

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00:21:06,125 --> 00:21:09,525
Speaker 2: and copy until all originality and meaning is lost. And

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Speaker 2: he's spoken very kind of like big picture like don't

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Speaker 2: want to define this for people terms, but it kind

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Speaker 2: of sounds like that's what it is for him. And

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Speaker 2: then with Ai, I see something very similar happen, you know,

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00:21:22,285 --> 00:21:24,445
Speaker 2: in terms of ingesting a whole bunch of like other

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Speaker 2: people's very specific culture and spitting out this like amalgamated

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00:21:28,525 --> 00:21:32,725
Speaker 2: average that often looks distorted or wrong. So I guess

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Speaker 2: my biggest question here is just like between like the

391
00:21:37,205 --> 00:21:42,365
Speaker 2: YouTube series and the interviews, the kind of offensive like

392
00:21:42,485 --> 00:21:46,085
Speaker 2: dialogue that's going on about whether Parsons quote unquote really

393
00:21:46,125 --> 00:21:50,285
Speaker 2: directed this movie, the conversations about what it means and why,

394
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Speaker 2: the conversations about young people, you know, making movies as

395
00:21:55,645 --> 00:22:00,205
Speaker 2: teenagers and stepping up to studios in their twenties. How

396
00:22:00,245 --> 00:22:03,605
Speaker 2: much of any of this like giant cloud of conversation

397
00:22:03,725 --> 00:22:05,525
Speaker 2: around this movie have you guys engaged with.

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Speaker 5: One thing I've been thinking about is I think No,

399
00:22:08,005 --> 00:22:10,845
Speaker 5: I don't think I know that studios are gonna take

400
00:22:10,845 --> 00:22:12,965
Speaker 5: the way the wrong lessons from this is not that

401
00:22:13,045 --> 00:22:16,805
Speaker 5: like King Parsons had this really particular vision that he

402
00:22:16,925 --> 00:22:20,125
Speaker 5: was able to realize into this really effective film, so,

403
00:22:20,125 --> 00:22:22,765
Speaker 5: which is like, let's grab some more YouTubers and do

404
00:22:22,885 --> 00:22:26,405
Speaker 5: YouTube stuff, you know, or let's look about it. Yeah,

405
00:22:26,485 --> 00:22:31,245
Speaker 5: and that like lots, and I fear the inevitable ripoffs

406
00:22:31,325 --> 00:22:34,085
Speaker 5: of this. Also, to be honest, I kind of fear

407
00:22:34,725 --> 00:22:37,885
Speaker 5: the continuation because I don't necessarily want to have this

408
00:22:37,925 --> 00:22:41,325
Speaker 5: explain to me more than the film already does. I

409
00:22:41,325 --> 00:22:43,845
Speaker 5: don't necessarily want to lose the mystery or or go

410
00:22:43,925 --> 00:22:46,165
Speaker 5: deeper into the lore of it. Although I'll take a

411
00:22:46,205 --> 00:22:48,445
Speaker 5: wait and see attitude with that. I mean, it's not

412
00:22:48,445 --> 00:22:49,845
Speaker 5: like I'm not going to watch a sequel to it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, at least hope you can expect some

414
00:22:52,525 --> 00:22:55,925
Speaker 4: excitement in terms of the visual style of these of

415
00:22:55,965 --> 00:22:58,805
Speaker 4: the films, which are pretty essential as far as, like,

416
00:22:59,445 --> 00:23:02,205
Speaker 4: you know, learning more of the mythology, getting deeper into

417
00:23:02,445 --> 00:23:05,885
Speaker 4: into what this universe means. I'm not maybe I also

418
00:23:06,125 --> 00:23:09,845
Speaker 4: share a certain skepticism or lack of enthusiasm about that prospect.

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00:23:09,965 --> 00:23:11,325
Speaker 4: But at the same time, I mean, this is a

420
00:23:11,325 --> 00:23:14,805
Speaker 4: different kind of movie that we've seen. I mean, I've

421
00:23:14,805 --> 00:23:17,485
Speaker 4: been mentioning all these films that I think it reminds

422
00:23:17,525 --> 00:23:19,845
Speaker 4: me of, but there's also something you knew about it,

423
00:23:19,885 --> 00:23:22,845
Speaker 4: and it's confronting audience is with it runs you so

424
00:23:22,965 --> 00:23:25,125
Speaker 4: much of the Blair Witch Project in that it is

425
00:23:25,485 --> 00:23:29,805
Speaker 4: confronting audiences with a theatrical experience that they really haven't

426
00:23:29,885 --> 00:23:32,725
Speaker 4: had before. And you know, and I think it can

427
00:23:32,845 --> 00:23:36,845
Speaker 4: lead to a lot of rejection from audiences that expect

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00:23:36,845 --> 00:23:38,645
Speaker 4: one thing and then they're like, what even what even

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00:23:38,765 --> 00:23:41,445
Speaker 4: is this? But it makes for you know, something exciting

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00:23:41,485 --> 00:23:45,325
Speaker 4: and new and and you know, something that might be

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00:23:45,525 --> 00:23:48,245
Speaker 4: embraced and certainly imitated quite a bit in the future.

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Speaker 4: And I think there's a lot of possibility here the

433
00:23:51,725 --> 00:23:57,365
Speaker 4: things that Marson's is emphasizing visually, how he's making you feel,

434
00:23:57,485 --> 00:24:01,165
Speaker 4: how ambiance and aura are really essential to the experience

435
00:24:01,845 --> 00:24:03,645
Speaker 4: more so than shocks, even though the film has a

436
00:24:03,645 --> 00:24:06,405
Speaker 4: couple of those. That's exciting. That's kind of an exciting

437
00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:09,445
Speaker 4: direction for Whoror to go in generally, and if you

438
00:24:09,485 --> 00:24:12,005
Speaker 4: can get if there are other young filmmakers of a

439
00:24:12,045 --> 00:24:16,485
Speaker 4: similar sensibility, or other filmmakers in general who want to

440
00:24:16,525 --> 00:24:20,445
Speaker 4: try to make movies in this form that emphasize atmospherics,

441
00:24:20,485 --> 00:24:22,565
Speaker 4: a little bit or bring on in my.

442
00:24:22,525 --> 00:24:26,285
Speaker 2: Opinion, I mean, the ship has definitely sailed on finding

443
00:24:26,285 --> 00:24:30,165
Speaker 2: YouTubers like successful YouTubers and bumping them up to the majors.

444
00:24:30,405 --> 00:24:33,605
Speaker 2: Curry Barker in Tucson. God, I was just looking at

445
00:24:33,885 --> 00:24:37,485
Speaker 2: a list in the Hollywood Reporter the other day. There's

446
00:24:37,485 --> 00:24:41,205
Speaker 2: a whole wave of them. Basically not to us. On

447
00:24:41,925 --> 00:24:46,725
Speaker 2: who directed a twenty fours Undertone wasn't a hit YouTuber

448
00:24:46,885 --> 00:24:50,645
Speaker 2: he had done like VR Horror, But it's the same

449
00:24:50,685 --> 00:24:53,565
Speaker 2: sort of thing, you know, people coming up as young

450
00:24:53,645 --> 00:24:57,685
Speaker 2: creators Mark Fischbach with Iron Lung, which I may be

451
00:24:57,805 --> 00:25:01,805
Speaker 2: alone in actually liking among the critical set, but I

452
00:25:01,885 --> 00:25:06,765
Speaker 2: rather liked. There is I think, a sense that not

453
00:25:06,925 --> 00:25:11,125
Speaker 2: only are these people like showing off what they can do,

454
00:25:11,325 --> 00:25:14,845
Speaker 2: you know, exploring the tools on their own and putting

455
00:25:14,885 --> 00:25:18,365
Speaker 2: the results online and the showing off their bona fides,

456
00:25:18,885 --> 00:25:22,045
Speaker 2: there's also just sort of a sense that mining the

457
00:25:22,085 --> 00:25:25,805
Speaker 2: same existing ip over and over is producing less and

458
00:25:25,845 --> 00:25:28,965
Speaker 2: less results. So picking up somebody who already has an

459
00:25:29,005 --> 00:25:34,125
Speaker 2: audience is gradually becoming the new version of that, instead

460
00:25:34,125 --> 00:25:36,445
Speaker 2: of picking up a property that always already has a following,

461
00:25:36,685 --> 00:25:39,165
Speaker 2: picking up a person that already has a following, but

462
00:25:39,205 --> 00:25:41,805
Speaker 2: none of that answers my initial question, which is, just

463
00:25:42,205 --> 00:25:44,205
Speaker 2: have you watched any of the shorts? For instance?

464
00:25:44,685 --> 00:25:44,765
Speaker 4: No?

465
00:25:45,365 --> 00:25:48,125
Speaker 5: Should I, because I don't know. I'm a movie person,

466
00:25:48,285 --> 00:25:51,565
Speaker 5: I'm not a YouTube shorts person. I guess I'm kind

467
00:25:51,565 --> 00:25:55,165
Speaker 5: of curious as to sort of the raw material that

468
00:25:55,325 --> 00:25:59,125
Speaker 5: led to this film, But I'm not that curious. I

469
00:25:59,125 --> 00:26:00,805
Speaker 5: guess that is what it comes down to.

470
00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:03,885
Speaker 4: Yeah, I stayed pretty firmly in the dark. Hell I said,

471
00:26:03,925 --> 00:26:05,805
Speaker 4: I saw it just, you know, less than forty eight

472
00:26:05,845 --> 00:26:08,805
Speaker 4: hours ago. So I was trying to just avoid everything

473
00:26:08,845 --> 00:26:11,484
Speaker 4: I could about the movie until seeing it. And so

474
00:26:11,565 --> 00:26:13,805
Speaker 4: I haven't, you know, read a little bit of writing

475
00:26:13,845 --> 00:26:16,845
Speaker 4: about the movie, but I have not really looked at

476
00:26:17,045 --> 00:26:21,645
Speaker 4: Cane Pixel's work, web page or whatever to see h

477
00:26:21,645 --> 00:26:24,165
Speaker 4: other than to know that it has somewhat four million

478
00:26:24,205 --> 00:26:26,565
Speaker 4: plus subscribers.

479
00:26:25,845 --> 00:26:27,045
Speaker 3: And is a thing.

480
00:26:27,445 --> 00:26:29,125
Speaker 4: But it's interesting the genesis of it. I mean, you

481
00:26:29,125 --> 00:26:31,485
Speaker 4: talk about the genesis being four Chan, and it's like everything.

482
00:26:32,885 --> 00:26:35,965
Speaker 4: My understanding of four Chan is, so is it being

483
00:26:36,045 --> 00:26:40,765
Speaker 4: like this genesis of actual real world evil but maybe

484
00:26:40,765 --> 00:26:44,965
Speaker 4: also some some I guess now creative excitement.

485
00:26:45,125 --> 00:26:45,605
Speaker 3: I don't know.

486
00:26:45,805 --> 00:26:47,885
Speaker 5: Well, I think just the initial image and the creepy

487
00:26:47,925 --> 00:26:49,925
Speaker 5: I mean, I stay away from four Chap But my

488
00:26:49,965 --> 00:26:56,365
Speaker 5: understanding is it's not just for Nazis COM's, but there's

489
00:26:56,405 --> 00:26:57,805
Speaker 5: a lot of Nazis come there.

490
00:26:57,925 --> 00:26:58,445
Speaker 3: Yeah.

491
00:26:58,525 --> 00:27:00,765
Speaker 2: Well, for what it's worth, I've watched all of the shorts.

492
00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:03,685
Speaker 2: I was curious, and I actually wrote a piece for

493
00:27:03,925 --> 00:27:07,405
Speaker 2: Polygon that as we're recording this is going up this weekend.

494
00:27:07,445 --> 00:27:09,525
Speaker 2: That's just like, here are the five you should watch,

495
00:27:10,045 --> 00:27:12,565
Speaker 2: or here are the five you should consider watching. None

496
00:27:12,605 --> 00:27:16,325
Speaker 2: of them are going to really enlighten you about what

497
00:27:16,405 --> 00:27:19,645
Speaker 2: happens in the movie. They're all very definitely just kind

498
00:27:19,685 --> 00:27:24,605
Speaker 2: of like tests from a filmmaker who was like the

499
00:27:24,685 --> 00:27:27,125
Speaker 2: learning his tools and working his way up. There is

500
00:27:27,165 --> 00:27:29,845
Speaker 2: one of them I think is really really darkly funny

501
00:27:30,405 --> 00:27:33,365
Speaker 2: that will give you a new perspective on Asink, the

502
00:27:33,885 --> 00:27:37,325
Speaker 2: organization represented the movie by Mark Duplas. But if you're

503
00:27:37,565 --> 00:27:40,045
Speaker 2: if you're feeling an aversion to watching the shorts, they

504
00:27:40,125 --> 00:27:45,125
Speaker 2: definitely aren't required. Neither is engaging with the conversations around

505
00:27:45,205 --> 00:27:47,205
Speaker 2: the movie. But you know, there are a lot of

506
00:27:47,205 --> 00:27:52,085
Speaker 2: conversations about, for instance, copyright and the rights on something

507
00:27:52,125 --> 00:27:56,805
Speaker 2: that was generated out of a larger Internet like creative

508
00:27:56,845 --> 00:28:00,405
Speaker 2: sphere with a lot of people contributing, for instance, and

509
00:28:00,965 --> 00:28:02,925
Speaker 2: you know, obviously there's a lot of like unpacking of

510
00:28:03,285 --> 00:28:06,244
Speaker 2: the meetings and symbolism and whatnot. Does any of that

511
00:28:06,285 --> 00:28:06,725
Speaker 2: interest you.

512
00:28:07,085 --> 00:28:11,325
Speaker 5: I'm curious about the sort of the copyright issue as well.

513
00:28:11,525 --> 00:28:15,045
Speaker 5: And I'm certainly with the film this successful. If there's

514
00:28:15,085 --> 00:28:16,845
Speaker 5: any legitimate claims that we made, it's also going to

515
00:28:16,885 --> 00:28:19,805
Speaker 5: attract a lot of illegitimate claims too. But I mean

516
00:28:19,845 --> 00:28:23,485
Speaker 5: my understanding is that the initial image kind of kind

517
00:28:23,485 --> 00:28:26,085
Speaker 5: of like started the ball rolling this whole mythology built

518
00:28:26,125 --> 00:28:29,645
Speaker 5: around it, and Parsons is like add it to and

519
00:28:29,685 --> 00:28:32,725
Speaker 5: worked within that mythology. But I don't know, it seems

520
00:28:32,725 --> 00:28:35,205
Speaker 5: like kind of in some way kind of unexplored territory

521
00:28:35,205 --> 00:28:37,565
Speaker 5: in terms of well, who gets to call themselves the

522
00:28:37,565 --> 00:28:40,005
Speaker 5: creators at this? I mean, I I nothing's just me

523
00:28:40,885 --> 00:28:45,645
Speaker 5: with what I've read that it's is anyone's filmed with Parsons,

524
00:28:45,805 --> 00:28:48,165
Speaker 5: But I guess there is sort of, you know, it's

525
00:28:48,365 --> 00:28:52,205
Speaker 5: it's the product of a lot of Internet back and forth,

526
00:28:52,205 --> 00:28:53,085
Speaker 5: if I'm not mistaken.

527
00:28:53,405 --> 00:28:57,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read a pretty interesting, like lengthy post on

528
00:28:57,285 --> 00:29:00,365
Speaker 2: a law firms site kind of talking about the issues,

529
00:29:00,405 --> 00:29:03,285
Speaker 2: I'm sure because they realized people would be googling it

530
00:29:03,325 --> 00:29:04,805
Speaker 2: and it was a good way to drive traffic to

531
00:29:04,805 --> 00:29:06,805
Speaker 2: their law firm. And what it kind of comes down

532
00:29:06,885 --> 00:29:12,045
Speaker 2: to is that stuff that's posted anonymously, like it would

533
00:29:12,045 --> 00:29:13,965
Speaker 2: be very hard for that four chune user to come

534
00:29:14,005 --> 00:29:15,925
Speaker 2: forward now and say I was the one who had

535
00:29:15,965 --> 00:29:19,085
Speaker 2: the idea for this, you know, to prove they were

536
00:29:19,125 --> 00:29:22,885
Speaker 2: the one that posted in the But also, you can't

537
00:29:22,885 --> 00:29:27,405
Speaker 2: copyright a short term like backrooms, and you can't copyright

538
00:29:28,045 --> 00:29:32,405
Speaker 2: an idea. Kind of the example they had was, you know,

539
00:29:32,885 --> 00:29:36,685
Speaker 2: extraterrestrial comes to Earth in his hostel, Like, you can't

540
00:29:36,725 --> 00:29:41,125
Speaker 2: copyright that. You can copyright, you know, the Predator movies.

541
00:29:41,805 --> 00:29:46,085
Speaker 2: So he he has definitely kind of veered away from

542
00:29:46,605 --> 00:29:50,645
Speaker 2: what seems to be the kind of like dominant collective

543
00:29:50,925 --> 00:29:53,565
Speaker 2: of backrooms creation. I think we're going to see more

544
00:29:53,565 --> 00:29:55,725
Speaker 2: and more of this. It takes me back to a

545
00:29:55,765 --> 00:29:58,885
Speaker 2: like a long ago huge legal post about God help

546
00:29:58,965 --> 00:30:03,045
Speaker 2: us all the omega verse. I think it's called this

547
00:30:03,325 --> 00:30:09,605
Speaker 2: giant fan thick cloud of stories about sexy were wolves

548
00:30:09,605 --> 00:30:15,045
Speaker 2: and their non sexy relationships, which was a big fanfic thing.

549
00:30:15,285 --> 00:30:19,045
Speaker 2: And then one author made a ton of money like

550
00:30:19,205 --> 00:30:21,885
Speaker 2: publishing those books, and then somebody else came along and

551
00:30:21,925 --> 00:30:25,685
Speaker 2: tried to publish some Omegaverse books, and the first author

552
00:30:25,925 --> 00:30:28,045
Speaker 2: said that they had copyright on all of these terms

553
00:30:28,045 --> 00:30:29,925
Speaker 2: that had been kind of invented in a cloud of

554
00:30:29,925 --> 00:30:32,085
Speaker 2: fan fiction on the internet. So I think it's a

555
00:30:32,125 --> 00:30:35,005
Speaker 2: similar conversation. I just I find it interesting.

556
00:30:35,365 --> 00:30:39,565
Speaker 4: I have not been exposed to those conversations yet. I mean,

557
00:30:39,685 --> 00:30:41,445
Speaker 4: all I have is to go on is really just

558
00:30:41,685 --> 00:30:44,005
Speaker 4: you know, the film that I the film that I saw,

559
00:30:44,045 --> 00:30:47,445
Speaker 4: and I mean, I guess it's just another I mean,

560
00:30:47,725 --> 00:30:50,965
Speaker 4: the ownership people might feel over this movie is something

561
00:30:51,005 --> 00:30:53,965
Speaker 4: that I don't know as much about. But I will say,

562
00:30:54,005 --> 00:30:58,605
Speaker 4: you know, there's some direction here that is wholly his own.

563
00:30:58,605 --> 00:31:00,445
Speaker 4: I mean, there's like that that impressed me. I mean

564
00:31:00,445 --> 00:31:05,085
Speaker 4: there's some individual shots, I mean, you know, stylistic choices

565
00:31:05,125 --> 00:31:08,645
Speaker 4: that feel very personal and not the product.

566
00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:10,725
Speaker 3: Of a group exercise, you know.

567
00:31:10,765 --> 00:31:14,405
Speaker 4: And I think this movie has, you know, my one

568
00:31:14,445 --> 00:31:17,805
Speaker 4: of my favorite shots in any movie for a while.

569
00:31:18,285 --> 00:31:20,965
Speaker 5: Maybe you all will know what I'm well, the shadow

570
00:31:21,125 --> 00:31:21,565
Speaker 5: on the wall.

571
00:31:21,805 --> 00:31:24,405
Speaker 4: Now, I'm thinking more of the descent of the shot,

572
00:31:24,445 --> 00:31:26,925
Speaker 4: where you're going, where the camera is just going down

573
00:31:27,445 --> 00:31:31,365
Speaker 4: from one floor after another, and it changes and deepens

574
00:31:31,405 --> 00:31:35,365
Speaker 4: and becomes more creepier, more distorted. I just thought that

575
00:31:35,445 --> 00:31:38,325
Speaker 4: was so exciting because, you know, I think you almost

576
00:31:38,405 --> 00:31:40,485
Speaker 4: look at a certain point, you think of this as

577
00:31:40,765 --> 00:31:45,005
Speaker 4: as almost like people repelling, almost like that movie The Descent.

578
00:31:45,085 --> 00:31:48,605
Speaker 4: You're repelling into the space that's unknown, and at a

579
00:31:48,605 --> 00:31:51,125
Speaker 4: certain point the rope has gone quite literally and and

580
00:31:51,565 --> 00:31:53,765
Speaker 4: you're lost in this space and you're going down and

581
00:31:53,805 --> 00:31:55,365
Speaker 4: down and down, and the.

582
00:31:55,325 --> 00:31:56,765
Speaker 3: Movie kind of takes you with it.

583
00:31:56,805 --> 00:32:00,005
Speaker 4: But going down at that speed of going from one

584
00:32:00,005 --> 00:32:05,205
Speaker 4: floor to another and having and seeing these changes more dramatically,

585
00:32:05,645 --> 00:32:08,925
Speaker 4: and there's something so thrilling about that, you know, filmically,

586
00:32:09,085 --> 00:32:12,765
Speaker 4: and there's so many examples throughout of you know, the

587
00:32:12,805 --> 00:32:14,725
Speaker 4: filmmakings Is itself is just so.

588
00:32:14,805 --> 00:32:17,565
Speaker 3: Impressive and exciting, and it's you.

589
00:32:17,525 --> 00:32:21,765
Speaker 4: Know, quite apart from what's actually happening in terms of story,

590
00:32:21,805 --> 00:32:24,485
Speaker 4: which in theme, which to me gets a little confusing,

591
00:32:25,405 --> 00:32:27,285
Speaker 4: maybe because I've only seen it at one time, but

592
00:32:27,485 --> 00:32:30,725
Speaker 4: it doesn't feel all that thoroughly sorted out.

593
00:32:31,205 --> 00:32:33,605
Speaker 5: No, It's like like these particular backroom to are the

594
00:32:33,685 --> 00:32:37,765
Speaker 5: manifestations of Clark's psyche, but they're also kind of not

595
00:32:37,885 --> 00:32:40,125
Speaker 5: because they're happening everywhere it is. It is a little

596
00:32:40,725 --> 00:32:43,285
Speaker 5: it does feel a little unsort of Tasha, you say

597
00:32:43,645 --> 00:32:44,925
Speaker 5: you disagree.

598
00:32:45,125 --> 00:32:47,405
Speaker 2: I mean, I wrote a whole piece for Vulture kind

599
00:32:47,405 --> 00:32:52,085
Speaker 2: of unpacking even just one aspect of the ending. We've

600
00:32:52,085 --> 00:32:56,165
Speaker 2: talked a lot about the cloud of everything around this movie,

601
00:32:56,205 --> 00:32:59,205
Speaker 2: around what it's conveying in its moment in time, and

602
00:32:59,445 --> 00:33:02,365
Speaker 2: the movement it's part of, and the conversations it started.

603
00:33:02,925 --> 00:33:06,405
Speaker 2: I confess that I am to some degree not trying

604
00:33:06,445 --> 00:33:11,085
Speaker 2: to like lean into talking about the story details, just

605
00:33:11,125 --> 00:33:15,645
Speaker 2: because like even more so than usual, Like this movie

606
00:33:15,685 --> 00:33:19,445
Speaker 2: is so much about discovery, and there's so much to unpacked.

607
00:33:19,445 --> 00:33:22,005
Speaker 2: There's just there's so much to talk about in terms

608
00:33:22,045 --> 00:33:24,285
Speaker 2: of what's going on. I kind of feel like we

609
00:33:24,285 --> 00:33:27,205
Speaker 2: should maybe do a Patreon episode where we just talk about,

610
00:33:27,285 --> 00:33:31,085
Speaker 2: like unpacking the ending. There are aspects of this that

611
00:33:31,285 --> 00:33:36,445
Speaker 2: are definitely like, exactly to what degree Clark's experience is

612
00:33:36,725 --> 00:33:40,245
Speaker 2: unique and comes out of his own psyche and his

613
00:33:40,405 --> 00:33:44,525
Speaker 2: own problems, which again are a huge subject to unpack,

614
00:33:45,005 --> 00:33:49,085
Speaker 2: are very unclear. And one of the things I'm interested

615
00:33:49,125 --> 00:33:53,325
Speaker 2: in is in further back rooms movies is less let's

616
00:33:53,325 --> 00:33:55,725
Speaker 2: explain where this came from and where what it all

617
00:33:55,765 --> 00:34:00,765
Speaker 2: means and more, what is somebody very different going into

618
00:34:00,805 --> 00:34:04,405
Speaker 2: the back room's experience, Like how much of this is

619
00:34:04,965 --> 00:34:09,205
Speaker 2: just the space being reactive? In certain ways, it.

620
00:34:09,125 --> 00:34:13,364
Speaker 5: Seems alsost personally designed to insult Clark as someone who's

621
00:34:13,405 --> 00:34:16,884
Speaker 5: been is an architect who has an interest in designing,

622
00:34:18,085 --> 00:34:23,685
Speaker 5: you know, presumably in designing beautiful spaces, original spaces. Creative

623
00:34:23,685 --> 00:34:28,485
Speaker 5: space is a not just these no place spaces, but his.

624
00:34:28,565 --> 00:34:31,765
Speaker 2: Love of the space I think comes in part from

625
00:34:31,845 --> 00:34:35,205
Speaker 2: being an architect. The way he comes to embrace it,

626
00:34:35,285 --> 00:34:39,045
Speaker 2: I think comes from him, in a very twisted way,

627
00:34:39,245 --> 00:34:43,125
Speaker 2: coming to see it is beautiful because he's an architect

628
00:34:43,165 --> 00:34:45,565
Speaker 2: who had to give up on that dream. You know,

629
00:34:45,645 --> 00:34:49,165
Speaker 2: it's not entirely clear how much his his alcoholism and

630
00:34:49,285 --> 00:34:53,805
Speaker 2: his pathological lying are responsible for the death of his

631
00:34:54,405 --> 00:34:57,245
Speaker 2: architectural career. There's a lot in this movie I think

632
00:34:57,245 --> 00:35:00,565
Speaker 2: that is implied rather than stated, and that's why it's

633
00:35:00,605 --> 00:35:02,965
Speaker 2: just a really rich text to unpack.

634
00:35:03,565 --> 00:35:06,085
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've read that as his kind of surrendering to

635
00:35:06,245 --> 00:35:10,365
Speaker 5: self loathing and depression versus coming to admire the space itself.

636
00:35:10,485 --> 00:35:12,404
Speaker 5: Maybe they're maybe they're kind of one of the same,

637
00:35:12,445 --> 00:35:12,845
Speaker 5: I guess.

638
00:35:13,365 --> 00:35:16,325
Speaker 4: So the theory is that this space is a reflection

639
00:35:16,405 --> 00:35:20,445
Speaker 4: of his psyche, right, but when the least aspects of

640
00:35:20,485 --> 00:35:21,285
Speaker 4: it anyway.

641
00:35:21,205 --> 00:35:25,525
Speaker 2: His I think his experience with what the back rooms do,

642
00:35:25,845 --> 00:35:29,245
Speaker 2: the way he ends up engaging with it, I think

643
00:35:29,405 --> 00:35:33,165
Speaker 2: shapes the experience that he has. But somebody else with

644
00:35:33,645 --> 00:35:38,765
Speaker 2: different pathologies might experience it and have like transformative experiences

645
00:35:38,805 --> 00:35:39,485
Speaker 2: in different ways.

646
00:35:39,925 --> 00:35:42,765
Speaker 5: Because when we get a glimpse of Mary in the

647
00:35:42,845 --> 00:35:47,725
Speaker 5: back rooms, it is reflective of her own, like, you know,

648
00:35:47,805 --> 00:35:50,525
Speaker 5: her time as a child and as a as a

649
00:35:50,605 --> 00:35:54,005
Speaker 5: child who's being you know, kept inside by a mentally

650
00:35:54,325 --> 00:35:57,405
Speaker 5: unstable mother. Uh So, yeah, I think I think that

651
00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,125
Speaker 5: that kind of makes sense to me then, But what.

652
00:35:59,085 --> 00:36:01,765
Speaker 4: About duplas though, is that doesn't it call kind of

653
00:36:01,885 --> 00:36:04,805
Speaker 4: get a little bit mucked up with that character.

654
00:36:04,725 --> 00:36:07,885
Speaker 5: You can actually enter these spaces and yeah.

655
00:36:07,605 --> 00:36:09,365
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like and like and like, this is this

656
00:36:09,445 --> 00:36:13,045
Speaker 4: project that they're that they're managing or looking after, and

657
00:36:13,085 --> 00:36:15,245
Speaker 4: I guess it's ever changing or something. So in that sense,

658
00:36:15,285 --> 00:36:18,285
Speaker 4: it's kind of sort of explained away, is as something

659
00:36:18,365 --> 00:36:21,565
Speaker 4: that could potentially be a manifestation of the psyche of

660
00:36:21,565 --> 00:36:24,525
Speaker 4: those who enter into it and engage with it how

661
00:36:24,525 --> 00:36:25,965
Speaker 4: they will That.

662
00:36:25,885 --> 00:36:28,845
Speaker 2: One YouTube video that I think is funny and that

663
00:36:29,205 --> 00:36:31,645
Speaker 2: I think people should watch even if they don't have

664
00:36:31,725 --> 00:36:35,125
Speaker 2: much interest in other backrooms content does specifically have to

665
00:36:35,125 --> 00:36:40,125
Speaker 2: do with that company, the institute that Duplace's character represents,

666
00:36:40,565 --> 00:36:45,045
Speaker 2: and their interpretation of the back rooms, And given what

667
00:36:45,085 --> 00:36:49,005
Speaker 2: we see in the movie, I find the corporate interest

668
00:36:49,045 --> 00:36:50,005
Speaker 2: in it hilarious.

669
00:36:50,525 --> 00:36:50,685
Speaker 3: Welle.

670
00:36:50,725 --> 00:36:54,125
Speaker 4: Thing I really liked about the movie is is the

671
00:36:54,165 --> 00:36:57,365
Speaker 4: way Clark kind of puts his toe in the water.

672
00:36:57,565 --> 00:37:01,485
Speaker 4: You know, it comes They're gradually methodically really kind of

673
00:37:01,485 --> 00:37:04,525
Speaker 4: gets into this space. Because it reminds me. This movie

674
00:37:04,525 --> 00:37:09,605
Speaker 4: reminded me in several scenes of Poltergeist. You know, particularly

675
00:37:09,885 --> 00:37:12,924
Speaker 4: you have the rope thing happening. But one of the things,

676
00:37:12,965 --> 00:37:17,485
Speaker 4: if you recall from Poultergeist is that when supernatural stuff

677
00:37:17,525 --> 00:37:22,645
Speaker 4: starts happening, it's fun, right. It's like this trick that

678
00:37:22,685 --> 00:37:25,885
Speaker 4: they've discovered the house, and you know, Craig T. Nelson

679
00:37:25,925 --> 00:37:29,045
Speaker 4: comes home and his wife is it shows him this

680
00:37:29,125 --> 00:37:31,325
Speaker 4: incredible thing that's happened in the kitchen with the chair,

681
00:37:31,485 --> 00:37:34,285
Speaker 4: and it's like, you know, and things don't turn sinister

682
00:37:34,365 --> 00:37:37,125
Speaker 4: until later and you see some of that with Clark

683
00:37:37,165 --> 00:37:40,325
Speaker 4: and his initial engagement with this thing that he's discovered,

684
00:37:40,325 --> 00:37:42,965
Speaker 4: this world that he's discovered in which he's pulled out.

685
00:37:43,485 --> 00:37:44,165
Speaker 3: He's gone through this.

686
00:37:44,205 --> 00:37:46,085
Speaker 4: Story he's set up, but he's set it up on

687
00:37:46,125 --> 00:37:49,285
Speaker 4: both sides, you know, the boundaries of it. He's taken

688
00:37:49,325 --> 00:37:51,965
Speaker 4: stuff out of it, you know, he's kind of experimented

689
00:37:52,005 --> 00:37:55,565
Speaker 4: with it, and then when he brings these two employees

690
00:37:55,605 --> 00:37:57,845
Speaker 4: with him in it, it's just really it really is,

691
00:37:57,845 --> 00:38:01,965
Speaker 4: at least initially about continuing to go splunking, to continue

692
00:38:02,045 --> 00:38:06,365
Speaker 4: to explore the space that he needs now assistance to

693
00:38:06,445 --> 00:38:08,805
Speaker 4: explore further, and then of course the film kind of

694
00:38:08,805 --> 00:38:11,765
Speaker 4: gets out of control and bad things.

695
00:38:11,605 --> 00:38:12,165
Speaker 3: Are going to happen.

696
00:38:12,245 --> 00:38:15,285
Speaker 4: But I like the plausibility, I guess, and I like

697
00:38:15,325 --> 00:38:18,805
Speaker 4: the kind of tone of that initial exploration that Clark

698
00:38:18,885 --> 00:38:19,805
Speaker 4: does in this movie.

699
00:38:20,205 --> 00:38:22,205
Speaker 2: I enjoyed that as well. And one of the things

700
00:38:22,205 --> 00:38:25,285
Speaker 2: I enjoy about it is one of the things I

701
00:38:25,285 --> 00:38:28,405
Speaker 2: talked to Parsons about that was just a very you know,

702
00:38:28,485 --> 00:38:31,325
Speaker 2: my own personal obsessions thing is I spent the whole

703
00:38:31,365 --> 00:38:34,805
Speaker 2: movie waiting for the moment where Clark tries to get

704
00:38:34,845 --> 00:38:37,924
Speaker 2: out of the back rooms and can't or Clark tries

705
00:38:37,965 --> 00:38:39,765
Speaker 2: to introduce somebody else to the back rooms, and the

706
00:38:39,845 --> 00:38:43,965
Speaker 2: door isn't there, like the standard horror movie idea of

707
00:38:44,085 --> 00:38:50,805
Speaker 2: just it's an inconsistent thing, and therefore everybody thinks he's crazy, delusional, schizophrenic,

708
00:38:51,245 --> 00:38:54,045
Speaker 2: and that ever happens. Parsons plays fair with the audience

709
00:38:54,085 --> 00:38:57,085
Speaker 2: on that one. But one of the things that we

710
00:38:57,205 --> 00:39:01,845
Speaker 2: see anyway, is Clark behaving in a more and more

711
00:39:02,085 --> 00:39:07,605
Speaker 2: like agitated and possibly unstable fashion, just through fascination with

712
00:39:07,645 --> 00:39:10,205
Speaker 2: this place, just through what honestly seems to be kind

713
00:39:10,245 --> 00:39:14,965
Speaker 2: of a positive experience, he starts behaving in such a

714
00:39:15,005 --> 00:39:18,765
Speaker 2: way that certainly his therapist thinks he's had some kind

715
00:39:18,765 --> 00:39:22,925
Speaker 2: of dangerous break with reality. And the kind of tension

716
00:39:22,965 --> 00:39:26,364
Speaker 2: there between is he delusional? We know he's not. We've

717
00:39:26,365 --> 00:39:30,285
Speaker 2: been in that space with him, versus what exactly he's

718
00:39:30,285 --> 00:39:32,924
Speaker 2: getting out all this and whether it's improving his life

719
00:39:33,845 --> 00:39:37,085
Speaker 2: goes right up to the end of his particular storyline

720
00:39:37,245 --> 00:39:39,005
Speaker 2: in some I think, very interesting ways.

721
00:39:39,485 --> 00:39:40,085
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mika, I.

722
00:39:40,125 --> 00:39:41,765
Speaker 4: Can look forward to seeing it again just so I

723
00:39:41,765 --> 00:39:44,525
Speaker 4: can unpack all of that stuff, because there's so much

724
00:39:45,005 --> 00:39:46,605
Speaker 4: here to sort through.

725
00:39:47,085 --> 00:39:50,445
Speaker 2: There really is, And again I haven't been broaching plot

726
00:39:50,525 --> 00:39:52,884
Speaker 2: related questions because I don't even know how to begin

727
00:39:52,965 --> 00:39:56,765
Speaker 2: to unpack Mary's personal history and what it has to

728
00:39:56,925 --> 00:39:59,805
Speaker 2: do with how the story infults for her and Clark's

729
00:39:59,805 --> 00:40:03,765
Speaker 2: personal history, his relationship with alcohol, his relationship with his ex,

730
00:40:03,845 --> 00:40:07,205
Speaker 2: his relationship with architecture and furniture.

731
00:40:07,765 --> 00:40:10,125
Speaker 4: Do you feel like it sound though? Your basic thought

732
00:40:10,325 --> 00:40:13,405
Speaker 4: is like, this is sound well thought through. This movie

733
00:40:13,445 --> 00:40:16,645
Speaker 4: has answers to the questions that you compose to it that.

734
00:40:16,645 --> 00:40:17,525
Speaker 3: Sort of thing. This is not.

735
00:40:17,965 --> 00:40:19,765
Speaker 4: This is not just one of those movies where it's

736
00:40:19,805 --> 00:40:23,925
Speaker 4: like well national and logical and shrug, you know, you

737
00:40:24,245 --> 00:40:27,125
Speaker 4: don't ask me to explain everything like like phantasm.

738
00:40:27,565 --> 00:40:27,885
Speaker 3: Yeah.

739
00:40:28,165 --> 00:40:30,925
Speaker 2: I think if you were to like get two drinks

740
00:40:30,925 --> 00:40:34,325
Speaker 2: into Parsons and ask him literally any question you have.

741
00:40:34,325 --> 00:40:34,805
Speaker 5: About this, and.

742
00:40:38,445 --> 00:40:39,725
Speaker 2: I think he would talk to you for two and

743
00:40:39,765 --> 00:40:44,645
Speaker 2: a half hours explicating the specific point you're asking about.

744
00:40:44,685 --> 00:40:47,565
Speaker 2: Whatever it is. That guy's brain is the back rooms.

745
00:40:47,885 --> 00:40:49,605
Speaker 2: It just goes on and on and on, and he

746
00:40:49,725 --> 00:40:52,045
Speaker 2: is he has thought a great deal about all of this,

747
00:40:52,325 --> 00:40:54,205
Speaker 2: and I find it very exciting.

748
00:40:54,285 --> 00:40:56,525
Speaker 5: And I think the main complaint I've seen levels of

749
00:40:56,565 --> 00:41:00,365
Speaker 5: this is that the whole thing with Clark and Mary's

750
00:41:00,405 --> 00:41:05,364
Speaker 5: Past and trauma, et cetera, et cetera, is is a

751
00:41:05,445 --> 00:41:08,685
Speaker 5: little you know, familiar and a little convenient, But I

752
00:41:08,685 --> 00:41:11,405
Speaker 5: actually think it works for me. Honestly. There's sort of

753
00:41:11,445 --> 00:41:15,844
Speaker 5: like this insect like instantly scoff at horror films that

754
00:41:15,845 --> 00:41:18,125
Speaker 5: that in which trauma plays a beame and I know

755
00:41:18,165 --> 00:41:19,925
Speaker 5: it's been I know it's been overdone, but at the

756
00:41:19,925 --> 00:41:22,085
Speaker 5: same times, like it is also kind of what horror

757
00:41:22,125 --> 00:41:23,845
Speaker 5: is about a lot of the time and much of

758
00:41:23,925 --> 00:41:26,685
Speaker 5: the time, so you know, I don't think you can

759
00:41:26,965 --> 00:41:29,725
Speaker 5: just not do that, and I think it's well done here.

760
00:41:30,205 --> 00:41:32,765
Speaker 2: I also think to some degree, a horror film where

761
00:41:32,805 --> 00:41:38,405
Speaker 2: nobody experiences trauma, or where people experience horrific events and

762
00:41:38,445 --> 00:41:42,805
Speaker 2: then don't show that they feel particularly traumatized, I don't know.

763
00:41:43,045 --> 00:41:45,205
Speaker 2: I think it starts to feel a little bit like phantasm,

764
00:41:45,285 --> 00:41:48,525
Speaker 2: where every time somebody goes through something horrible, their response is,

765
00:41:48,645 --> 00:41:50,885
Speaker 2: let's pick up a gun and go kick in another window.

766
00:41:51,645 --> 00:41:54,165
Speaker 2: So maybe this would be a good time to take

767
00:41:54,165 --> 00:42:07,404
Speaker 2: a break and then transition over into connections. Now it's

768
00:42:07,445 --> 00:42:09,725
Speaker 2: time for connections when we bring these two films together

769
00:42:09,805 --> 00:42:12,325
Speaker 2: and talk about all the things that they have in common.

770
00:42:12,885 --> 00:42:16,685
Speaker 2: So phantasm is not about sterile, repeating spaces in the

771
00:42:16,725 --> 00:42:20,965
Speaker 2: same way that back rooms is. But on this rewe

772
00:42:21,285 --> 00:42:24,404
Speaker 2: I was just way more aware of how much time

773
00:42:24,445 --> 00:42:28,005
Speaker 2: we spend in those the white corridors of the mausoleum,

774
00:42:28,485 --> 00:42:31,325
Speaker 2: and how samy they are, and kind of how similar

775
00:42:31,485 --> 00:42:35,325
Speaker 2: some of the shots are. Did watching back Rooms recently

776
00:42:35,725 --> 00:42:38,685
Speaker 2: change your experience with rewatching Phantasm at all?

777
00:42:39,125 --> 00:42:41,285
Speaker 5: I think it's but in my experience of walking around

778
00:42:41,325 --> 00:42:44,404
Speaker 5: the world more than that. But yeah, I mean we,

779
00:42:44,565 --> 00:42:47,165
Speaker 5: you know, we watched Phantasm actually decide to make this connection,

780
00:42:47,205 --> 00:42:49,765
Speaker 5: so I might have been a little more sensitive to

781
00:42:49,925 --> 00:42:53,325
Speaker 5: it as well. I guess I've never really thought before

782
00:42:54,205 --> 00:42:58,725
Speaker 5: how unlike a real mausoleum that that space was, or

783
00:42:58,765 --> 00:43:01,205
Speaker 5: at least how it's almost like a you know, it's

784
00:43:01,245 --> 00:43:03,805
Speaker 5: back rooms asking and the like, sort of a heightened

785
00:43:03,885 --> 00:43:08,125
Speaker 5: version of what such a mausoleum might look like. But yeah,

786
00:43:08,165 --> 00:43:10,845
Speaker 5: I was maybe turned up that, you know, seeing backrooms

787
00:43:10,845 --> 00:43:12,445
Speaker 5: may have turned up the creep factor on that just

788
00:43:12,445 --> 00:43:13,045
Speaker 5: a little.

789
00:43:12,805 --> 00:43:15,765
Speaker 2: Bit further, especially given that they both have kind of

790
00:43:15,845 --> 00:43:20,605
Speaker 2: similar soundscapes to them. Parsons is a really big soundscape guy,

791
00:43:21,245 --> 00:43:23,485
Speaker 2: and that comes up a lot in the shorts, I

792
00:43:23,525 --> 00:43:27,325
Speaker 2: think where you're very often hearing audio that's been processed

793
00:43:27,365 --> 00:43:32,245
Speaker 2: to sound echo your second hand or distant or muffled

794
00:43:32,285 --> 00:43:36,325
Speaker 2: in various ways. But the fluorescent buzzing of the back

795
00:43:36,405 --> 00:43:40,285
Speaker 2: rooms is one of its more disturbing elements. And every time,

796
00:43:40,605 --> 00:43:43,685
Speaker 2: like the Mausoleum space started to make noises like that,

797
00:43:43,885 --> 00:43:46,965
Speaker 2: especially when they opened the back the back room as

798
00:43:47,005 --> 00:43:49,645
Speaker 2: it were, and you get kind of that like machine

799
00:43:49,725 --> 00:43:55,404
Speaker 2: like hum. It just got very unnerved by the phantasm soundscape.

800
00:43:55,525 --> 00:43:57,605
Speaker 5: Is that where all the girls were trapped that Reggie

801
00:43:57,685 --> 00:44:00,525
Speaker 5: let out and it totally happened, and I thought we

802
00:44:00,565 --> 00:44:01,245
Speaker 5: just diouldn't see it.

803
00:44:02,245 --> 00:44:04,805
Speaker 2: Yes, it does still feel like we couldn't get them

804
00:44:04,845 --> 00:44:06,685
Speaker 2: that day, or we didn't have the budget. But it

805
00:44:06,725 --> 00:44:08,885
Speaker 2: also does when you say it that way, it sounds

806
00:44:08,925 --> 00:44:11,645
Speaker 2: a little bit like, you know, my Canadian girlfriend's stories

807
00:44:12,205 --> 00:44:14,565
Speaker 2: like oh, and then I ran into a room full

808
00:44:14,645 --> 00:44:17,965
Speaker 2: of super hot girls and I rescued them all. They

809
00:44:17,965 --> 00:44:20,805
Speaker 2: were real grateful to me, and they all kissed me

810
00:44:21,485 --> 00:44:25,005
Speaker 2: on the mouth, which really definitely happened while you're looking

811
00:44:25,005 --> 00:44:25,485
Speaker 2: at me that way.

812
00:44:25,525 --> 00:44:28,605
Speaker 4: Anyway, both with with with the back rooms and back

813
00:44:28,645 --> 00:44:32,404
Speaker 4: rooms and the Mausoleum and Phantasm. I think what's ends

814
00:44:32,445 --> 00:44:37,045
Speaker 4: up being exciting about both spaces as viewers is that

815
00:44:37,205 --> 00:44:38,365
Speaker 4: the rules don't apply.

816
00:44:38,445 --> 00:44:40,525
Speaker 3: The rules, the standard rules of physics don't apply.

817
00:44:41,005 --> 00:44:43,525
Speaker 4: The film can kind of impose its own internal logic

818
00:44:43,605 --> 00:44:47,205
Speaker 4: on these spaces, and uh, you know, the characters who

819
00:44:47,325 --> 00:44:51,085
Speaker 4: within them are deeply unsettled because you know, everything is

820
00:44:51,125 --> 00:44:54,405
Speaker 4: sort of supernatural and strange and dangerous. And so I

821
00:44:54,445 --> 00:44:56,805
Speaker 4: think that's it ends up being kind of like we

822
00:44:56,845 --> 00:44:59,685
Speaker 4: don't get as much as thorough a feel for the

823
00:44:59,765 --> 00:45:03,245
Speaker 4: Mausoleum and Phantasm as we do, you know in back

824
00:45:03,325 --> 00:45:05,525
Speaker 4: rooms where we're spending so much of the film in

825
00:45:05,565 --> 00:45:08,365
Speaker 4: those in that in that area, they're both going for

826
00:45:08,405 --> 00:45:11,445
Speaker 4: the same kind of impact of of something that's just

827
00:45:11,645 --> 00:45:15,485
Speaker 4: that's uncanny, and it has its own, in its own

828
00:45:15,565 --> 00:45:18,725
Speaker 4: kind of internal dream logic, and it has a sense

829
00:45:18,725 --> 00:45:21,364
Speaker 4: of danger for for people coming into it who are

830
00:45:21,405 --> 00:45:24,805
Speaker 4: just you know, cannot really control what they're experiencing. I

831
00:45:24,805 --> 00:45:26,884
Speaker 4: guess that I guess on that on that front. Two,

832
00:45:27,285 --> 00:45:31,445
Speaker 4: the difference is that is that in the Mausoleum everything

833
00:45:31,485 --> 00:45:34,645
Speaker 4: is being controlled by the tall man, that is his realm,

834
00:45:35,045 --> 00:45:37,725
Speaker 4: whereas in back rooms it's it's it's much more I guess,

835
00:45:37,885 --> 00:45:43,005
Speaker 4: reflection of the experience of someone like Clark, even though

836
00:45:43,005 --> 00:45:45,685
Speaker 4: he doesn't necessarily have a lot of control over what's

837
00:45:45,685 --> 00:45:46,285
Speaker 4: happening either.

838
00:45:46,565 --> 00:45:48,245
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I think part of what makes them so

839
00:45:48,285 --> 00:45:51,325
Speaker 5: creepy is that you don't get the sense of any

840
00:45:51,405 --> 00:45:54,444
Speaker 5: sort of controlling force. It's planning this, it's something that's

841
00:45:54,965 --> 00:45:58,085
Speaker 5: maybe it's just something that's happening in back rooms. You

842
00:45:58,165 --> 00:45:59,685
Speaker 5: never get the censor's that's sort of like a tall

843
00:45:59,725 --> 00:46:01,365
Speaker 5: man like figure behind it.

844
00:46:01,405 --> 00:46:04,165
Speaker 2: All right, although there is a very tall man, a

845
00:46:04,285 --> 00:46:04,965
Speaker 2: very tall man.

846
00:46:05,005 --> 00:46:09,125
Speaker 5: This is true tall with bulgy taller even I'd say.

847
00:46:09,165 --> 00:46:11,165
Speaker 2: Yeah, not only is there a very tall man, there

848
00:46:11,205 --> 00:46:15,005
Speaker 2: is a very short man, which I just I find interesting.

849
00:46:15,325 --> 00:46:18,085
Speaker 2: Like without while trying not to give too much away here,

850
00:46:18,645 --> 00:46:21,285
Speaker 2: towards the end of the movie, there is a seen

851
00:46:21,565 --> 00:46:25,285
Speaker 2: that features a very diminutive individual that we don't see

852
00:46:25,365 --> 00:46:29,005
Speaker 2: very clearly, but that reminded me a great deal of

853
00:46:29,285 --> 00:46:31,965
Speaker 2: the little Man from another place in twin Peaks, like

854
00:46:32,245 --> 00:46:36,165
Speaker 2: right down to the kind of like velvet crimson coloring

855
00:46:36,485 --> 00:46:42,845
Speaker 2: of whatever he's wearing. And you know, I know, I

856
00:46:42,885 --> 00:46:47,445
Speaker 2: think of Peter Dinkledge and living in Oblivion, where he's

857
00:46:48,125 --> 00:46:51,445
Speaker 2: talking derisively about like, oh, you hired a dwarf for

858
00:46:51,525 --> 00:46:55,565
Speaker 2: your dream sequence, because what's you know, more dreamlike and

859
00:46:55,605 --> 00:46:58,405
Speaker 2: disturbing than all little person ho ho ho, and like

860
00:46:58,485 --> 00:47:02,645
Speaker 2: takes the filmmaker to task like pretty brutally. But both

861
00:47:02,685 --> 00:47:06,005
Speaker 2: of these movies do kind of use very tall, gangly

862
00:47:06,085 --> 00:47:11,925
Speaker 2: people and very small people as like signifiers of disturbing

863
00:47:12,005 --> 00:47:13,844
Speaker 2: on reality and surrealism.

864
00:47:14,325 --> 00:47:16,845
Speaker 5: They do, but I don't think there's in fantasm, and

865
00:47:17,445 --> 00:47:20,245
Speaker 5: perhaps less in fantasm than and in backgrounds. But I

866
00:47:20,285 --> 00:47:24,045
Speaker 5: don't necessarily think you're supposed to think of real life

867
00:47:24,205 --> 00:47:27,205
Speaker 5: little people when you see these these these are are

868
00:47:27,325 --> 00:47:30,685
Speaker 5: just more These are kind of strange creations that happen

869
00:47:30,765 --> 00:47:31,565
Speaker 5: to be small.

870
00:47:31,965 --> 00:47:34,725
Speaker 2: Yeah. We never see one of them without the Java costume,

871
00:47:34,965 --> 00:47:36,685
Speaker 2: And I, like, I have, I have a lot of

872
00:47:36,765 --> 00:47:40,405
Speaker 2: questions about, you know, exactly are they are they just

873
00:47:41,085 --> 00:47:43,485
Speaker 2: being squished? Are they like cut off at the knees?

874
00:47:43,605 --> 00:47:46,605
Speaker 2: Like what what exactly is happening there? But I guess

875
00:47:46,765 --> 00:47:50,645
Speaker 2: having the mystery is, as Coscarelli said, more important than

876
00:47:50,685 --> 00:47:53,885
Speaker 2: answering the questions. One of the things that struck me

877
00:47:53,925 --> 00:47:57,045
Speaker 2: as maybe a kind of a bigger link between these

878
00:47:57,085 --> 00:48:01,405
Speaker 2: two movies is that they both pretty prominently feature broken families.

879
00:48:02,205 --> 00:48:09,085
Speaker 2: Families you know, marked by by loss or separation, frustration, anger, codependency,

880
00:48:09,805 --> 00:48:14,245
Speaker 2: like lack of dependency. Like all of the main characters

881
00:48:14,285 --> 00:48:16,884
Speaker 2: in both of these films are dealing with some kind

882
00:48:16,885 --> 00:48:21,645
Speaker 2: of like major familial loss that's kind of defined them emotionally.

883
00:48:22,165 --> 00:48:24,805
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true, except except I guess the big difference

884
00:48:24,885 --> 00:48:29,845
Speaker 4: being the brothers in Phantasm do have a closest and

885
00:48:29,885 --> 00:48:33,605
Speaker 4: do rely on each other for support and uh and

886
00:48:34,045 --> 00:48:37,725
Speaker 4: to be partners and this situation and I guess you

887
00:48:37,765 --> 00:48:41,045
Speaker 4: get you do get some of that in back Rooms

888
00:48:41,285 --> 00:48:45,205
Speaker 4: in a way between the two lead characters who have

889
00:48:45,325 --> 00:48:49,965
Speaker 4: this professional relationship really but but that line gets kind

890
00:48:50,005 --> 00:48:52,685
Speaker 4: of crossed and and there's there becomes true kind of

891
00:48:52,925 --> 00:48:56,805
Speaker 4: emotional stakes between them as the therapist kind of goes

892
00:48:56,845 --> 00:49:01,125
Speaker 4: and explores and really sort of tries to find and

893
00:49:01,365 --> 00:49:03,965
Speaker 4: rescue her client from oblivion.

894
00:49:04,005 --> 00:49:04,444
Speaker 3: That's there.

895
00:49:04,885 --> 00:49:09,725
Speaker 4: But the brokenness does become, of course an important piece

896
00:49:09,765 --> 00:49:13,525
Speaker 4: of Clark's story and back Rooms and that role play

897
00:49:14,045 --> 00:49:18,605
Speaker 4: involving his wife and just that sense of a very

898
00:49:19,085 --> 00:49:24,445
Speaker 4: regret filled, bitter, angry man having to contend with his

899
00:49:24,725 --> 00:49:26,485
Speaker 4: life not turning out the way he wanted it to.

900
00:49:27,045 --> 00:49:30,485
Speaker 2: There's also, in back rooms, I think, a very strong

901
00:49:30,805 --> 00:49:35,045
Speaker 2: thread of like Clark kind of being the engineer of

902
00:49:34,045 --> 00:49:38,405
Speaker 2: his own Like every bad thing that's happened in his

903
00:49:38,445 --> 00:49:41,565
Speaker 2: life he kind of blames on someone else, but it's

904
00:49:41,605 --> 00:49:45,045
Speaker 2: pretty clear that he's the cause, the architect, if you will,

905
00:49:45,085 --> 00:49:49,245
Speaker 2: of his own downfall. Whereas you know, Mary obviously did

906
00:49:49,245 --> 00:49:52,685
Speaker 2: not ask to be raised by a woman with failing

907
00:49:52,725 --> 00:49:55,165
Speaker 2: mental health who couldn't take care of her. Mike and

908
00:49:55,245 --> 00:49:58,165
Speaker 2: Jody did not ask for their parents to die or

909
00:49:58,165 --> 00:50:03,005
Speaker 2: to be like thrust into this awkward supernatural situation. I

910
00:50:03,005 --> 00:50:05,125
Speaker 2: guess nobody in either of these movies asked to be

911
00:50:05,205 --> 00:50:09,205
Speaker 2: thrust into a supernatural situation, but it is interesting that

912
00:50:09,805 --> 00:50:14,325
Speaker 2: Clark is the one who embraces it most, as perhaps

913
00:50:14,365 --> 00:50:18,845
Speaker 2: the one with the most to gain from a situation

914
00:50:19,085 --> 00:50:23,365
Speaker 2: like outside of reality, Whereas I'm pretty curious what you

915
00:50:23,445 --> 00:50:26,325
Speaker 2: make of Mike and Jody, like it just never seems

916
00:50:26,325 --> 00:50:29,005
Speaker 2: to occur to them to call the cops or even

917
00:50:29,085 --> 00:50:32,605
Speaker 2: call anybody with a monica mobive authority. They immediately had

918
00:50:32,885 --> 00:50:37,285
Speaker 2: in a cowboy direction of like let's grab a weapon

919
00:50:37,365 --> 00:50:40,885
Speaker 2: and go, like deal with this ourselves, and I wonder

920
00:50:40,885 --> 00:50:43,725
Speaker 2: if that is given that it is kind of hard

921
00:50:43,805 --> 00:50:49,325
Speaker 2: to justify in terms of why, especially a thirteen year

922
00:50:49,325 --> 00:50:53,845
Speaker 2: old boy, would think maybe grabbing a gun and dealing

923
00:50:53,885 --> 00:50:57,725
Speaker 2: with this like monster is a good idea.

924
00:50:58,405 --> 00:50:58,645
Speaker 3: You know.

925
00:50:58,685 --> 00:51:00,645
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just they both want to be thinking about

926
00:51:00,645 --> 00:51:04,645
Speaker 2: something else. They both want out of this, the discomfort

927
00:51:04,685 --> 00:51:07,485
Speaker 2: and grief of the situation that they're in. Or am

928
00:51:07,485 --> 00:51:10,404
Speaker 2: I wrong there? I mean, both of these movies very

929
00:51:10,485 --> 00:51:13,885
Speaker 2: definitely center on heroes with no sense of self preservation.

930
00:51:14,445 --> 00:51:16,565
Speaker 5: No, that's true. I mean, I mean, you know, it

931
00:51:16,645 --> 00:51:18,924
Speaker 5: ever curs to Clark that maybe shouldn't be in there

932
00:51:19,725 --> 00:51:22,005
Speaker 5: until it's too late, and even then I think he

933
00:51:22,085 --> 00:51:25,405
Speaker 5: kind of resigns himself to it. But yeah, with phantasm,

934
00:51:25,645 --> 00:51:29,165
Speaker 5: it's it's tough because if it really is a dream

935
00:51:29,605 --> 00:51:32,285
Speaker 5: or driven entirely by dream logic, then of course, yeah,

936
00:51:32,285 --> 00:51:34,125
Speaker 5: they're going to grab a gun and head to the

937
00:51:33,885 --> 00:51:39,205
Speaker 5: to the weirdly stately funeral home to take care of business.

938
00:51:39,325 --> 00:51:41,645
Speaker 2: A giant funeral home for what seems to be a

939
00:51:41,725 --> 00:51:42,605
Speaker 2: very small suburb.

940
00:51:42,765 --> 00:51:45,805
Speaker 5: What happens on the open on the upper floors, I mean,

941
00:51:45,925 --> 00:51:48,085
Speaker 5: you know, not all in bodies up there or maybe

942
00:51:48,165 --> 00:51:52,445
Speaker 5: they are, but we'll never know. Maybe, but yeah, it

943
00:51:52,485 --> 00:51:56,285
Speaker 5: does like these are these are isolated people. Even like Mary.

944
00:51:56,965 --> 00:52:00,685
Speaker 5: We see her with other people, but she's deeply uncomfortable

945
00:52:01,045 --> 00:52:04,725
Speaker 5: in that situation. She's a therapist, so she you know,

946
00:52:04,805 --> 00:52:08,285
Speaker 5: she interacts and talks to people, but anytime we see her,

947
00:52:08,765 --> 00:52:12,125
Speaker 5: we mostly see her alone, except when she's in therapy.

948
00:52:12,765 --> 00:52:16,325
Speaker 5: It is interesting how how alone in the world characters

949
00:52:16,325 --> 00:52:17,125
Speaker 5: in both of these are.

950
00:52:17,645 --> 00:52:19,285
Speaker 4: And I think if you just if you really kind

951
00:52:19,285 --> 00:52:22,085
Speaker 4: of get outside of logic, you can get into the

952
00:52:22,125 --> 00:52:24,605
Speaker 4: practicality and you get into the just the just like

953
00:52:25,005 --> 00:52:27,285
Speaker 4: the effect that these movies are going forward to limit

954
00:52:27,445 --> 00:52:31,845
Speaker 4: the cast members is just the right choice, right, I

955
00:52:31,885 --> 00:52:34,525
Speaker 4: mean to kind of you know, because you want to

956
00:52:34,525 --> 00:52:39,245
Speaker 4: emphasize their loneliness. You want to emphasize, you know, that

957
00:52:39,365 --> 00:52:42,365
Speaker 4: they don't have, uh, you know, an army of supporters

958
00:52:42,405 --> 00:52:44,925
Speaker 4: that they can kind of turn to in these situations.

959
00:52:45,285 --> 00:52:47,485
Speaker 3: And I think just from the standpoint.

960
00:52:46,965 --> 00:52:51,005
Speaker 4: Of making a low budget horror film, that having that

961
00:52:51,085 --> 00:52:54,965
Speaker 4: kind of economy of cast is ultimately good choice. I mean,

962
00:52:55,205 --> 00:52:56,885
Speaker 4: you know, you think about Fantastmic, they don't bring the

963
00:52:56,885 --> 00:53:00,125
Speaker 4: cops in. Do you want those scenes in the movie.

964
00:53:00,365 --> 00:53:01,884
Speaker 4: You know, you just don't want them. You don't want

965
00:53:01,885 --> 00:53:04,405
Speaker 4: that stuff, you know, and you don't and I think

966
00:53:04,805 --> 00:53:08,365
Speaker 4: you know, and you certainly wouldn't want to add a

967
00:53:08,365 --> 00:53:11,445
Speaker 4: lot of supporting players and a lot of other backstory

968
00:53:11,485 --> 00:53:13,685
Speaker 4: and other things to backrooms. It's gonna that none of

969
00:53:13,725 --> 00:53:17,485
Speaker 4: that stuff would really help the movie at all, especially

970
00:53:17,525 --> 00:53:20,925
Speaker 4: that movie, which is really where loneliness and isolation are,

971
00:53:21,405 --> 00:53:24,645
Speaker 4: you know, in kind of a poorly led life, I mean,

972
00:53:24,765 --> 00:53:29,565
Speaker 4: are thematically critical. You know, I think adding anything to

973
00:53:29,605 --> 00:53:32,605
Speaker 4: that in terms of a cast, in terms of what

974
00:53:33,165 --> 00:53:37,125
Speaker 4: your outside people characters are not that none.

975
00:53:36,965 --> 00:53:38,685
Speaker 3: Of that's to these films benefit at all.

976
00:53:39,165 --> 00:53:41,085
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, I mean, both of these movies

977
00:53:41,165 --> 00:53:44,005
Speaker 2: kind of operating with a very small cast might be

978
00:53:44,165 --> 00:53:47,125
Speaker 2: to some degree a budgetary thing and to some degree

979
00:53:47,565 --> 00:53:51,525
Speaker 2: like a limiting a narrative limiting thing in terms of

980
00:53:51,565 --> 00:53:55,445
Speaker 2: how big the story gets, just kind of like keeping

981
00:53:55,485 --> 00:53:58,765
Speaker 2: it self contained and personal because it's a way to

982
00:53:58,885 --> 00:54:02,444
Speaker 2: explore the emotions of these characters who are going through

983
00:54:02,485 --> 00:54:05,765
Speaker 2: a lot. I think you're very right that nobody really

984
00:54:05,805 --> 00:54:07,685
Speaker 2: needs to see the scene where Mike and Jody go

985
00:54:07,725 --> 00:54:11,005
Speaker 2: to the police and say, this super tall dude is

986
00:54:11,045 --> 00:54:13,925
Speaker 2: also super strong, and when you cut his fingers off,

987
00:54:14,365 --> 00:54:17,805
Speaker 2: he sprays yellow goo and turns into flies. We didn't

988
00:54:17,845 --> 00:54:22,165
Speaker 2: need to see that, But thinking about like, Clark doesn't

989
00:54:22,325 --> 00:54:25,765
Speaker 2: contact any authority whatsoever about this weird thing he's discovered,

990
00:54:26,525 --> 00:54:29,365
Speaker 2: and I feel like it's because he feels an ownership

991
00:54:29,405 --> 00:54:32,565
Speaker 2: of it. He is exploring it and mapping it. He

992
00:54:32,605 --> 00:54:35,005
Speaker 2: kind of wants it for his own, which makes me

993
00:54:35,045 --> 00:54:38,245
Speaker 2: wonder if to some degree, Mike and Jody also want

994
00:54:38,285 --> 00:54:42,165
Speaker 2: this problem for their own, like they want a problem

995
00:54:42,245 --> 00:54:45,965
Speaker 2: that they can solve again, kind of they're dealing with

996
00:54:46,005 --> 00:54:48,965
Speaker 2: a problem they can't solve, the death of their parents,

997
00:54:49,005 --> 00:54:53,964
Speaker 2: the potential dissolution of their relationship if Jody leaves again,

998
00:54:54,605 --> 00:54:57,445
Speaker 2: maybe the dissolution of Jody's future if he decides to

999
00:54:57,445 --> 00:54:59,365
Speaker 2: stay in this podunk town to take care of his

1000
00:54:59,405 --> 00:55:03,805
Speaker 2: thirteen year old brother. By comparison, a super strong, tall

1001
00:55:03,845 --> 00:55:08,085
Speaker 2: guy who's up to shenanigans, might just feel like a

1002
00:55:08,245 --> 00:55:12,885
Speaker 2: solvable problem that they can take control of, or at

1003
00:55:12,965 --> 00:55:17,965
Speaker 2: least that Jody can take control of. Although the complexity

1004
00:55:17,965 --> 00:55:20,165
Speaker 2: of exactly what in this movie is a dream and

1005
00:55:20,245 --> 00:55:23,445
Speaker 2: where exactly the break comes does kind of complicate that question.

1006
00:55:23,725 --> 00:55:25,645
Speaker 4: We want to sort of go a little bit big

1007
00:55:25,685 --> 00:55:27,965
Speaker 4: picture here. This is something I think you brought up

1008
00:55:28,325 --> 00:55:32,685
Speaker 4: really back to the very introduction of this set of episodes, Tasha,

1009
00:55:32,805 --> 00:55:37,405
Speaker 4: is just the comparison between these two directors of being young,

1010
00:55:38,085 --> 00:55:42,285
Speaker 4: these movies being box office phenomena, and I think I

1011
00:55:42,285 --> 00:55:46,364
Speaker 4: think there's some interesting commonalities there because you know, if

1012
00:55:46,405 --> 00:55:49,965
Speaker 4: you think about I guess the time in which they're released,

1013
00:55:50,005 --> 00:55:52,205
Speaker 4: they just they're not like anything else, right, I mean,

1014
00:55:52,245 --> 00:55:56,285
Speaker 4: phantasm doesn't it wasn't following any trends that were happening.

1015
00:55:56,325 --> 00:55:59,205
Speaker 4: It's it kind of came out as as the slasher

1016
00:55:59,245 --> 00:56:01,005
Speaker 4: trend was about to kind of take form.

1017
00:56:01,045 --> 00:56:02,885
Speaker 3: But it certainly isn't that in that genre.

1018
00:56:03,525 --> 00:56:07,205
Speaker 4: If anything, it kind of owes something to Suspiria or

1019
00:56:07,245 --> 00:56:11,165
Speaker 4: something your European and nothing like you'd expect to see

1020
00:56:11,165 --> 00:56:13,165
Speaker 4: from an American independent film.

1021
00:56:13,325 --> 00:56:16,365
Speaker 2: Maybe just a little a little touch of Star Wars

1022
00:56:16,645 --> 00:56:21,605
Speaker 2: in the flying sphere, but taking it in a horde essentially.

1023
00:56:21,765 --> 00:56:25,165
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, that's.

1024
00:56:27,365 --> 00:56:29,565
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess so. And then but then there's also

1025
00:56:30,525 --> 00:56:32,285
Speaker 4: you know, back rooms. Maybe you could also point to

1026
00:56:32,325 --> 00:56:34,444
Speaker 4: some things there, I mean, because it is it does

1027
00:56:34,525 --> 00:56:38,245
Speaker 4: come out of at least some sort of YouTube video culture,

1028
00:56:38,325 --> 00:56:42,005
Speaker 4: but it's also feeling like, you know, something completely new

1029
00:56:42,045 --> 00:56:46,405
Speaker 4: and offering audiences a different experience than they having or

1030
00:56:46,445 --> 00:56:48,845
Speaker 4: expect to have when they go pay their money to

1031
00:56:48,885 --> 00:56:51,405
Speaker 4: see a horror movie. And it's it's exciting, and it

1032
00:56:51,405 --> 00:56:53,445
Speaker 4: feels like it does kind of open up, you know,

1033
00:56:53,485 --> 00:56:56,485
Speaker 4: the possibility for you know, new dimensions. And then also

1034
00:56:56,845 --> 00:57:00,484
Speaker 4: you know, a new franchise here. Phantasm got made into

1035
00:57:00,925 --> 00:57:05,565
Speaker 4: multiple sequels and and it seems like Parsons has certainly

1036
00:57:05,605 --> 00:57:09,205
Speaker 4: has something in mind for a future back Rooms and

1037
00:57:09,325 --> 00:57:12,245
Speaker 4: given the success of this, many back rooms, uh, and

1038
00:57:12,605 --> 00:57:15,325
Speaker 4: the imitators will will come come flying after that. So

1039
00:57:15,365 --> 00:57:17,645
Speaker 4: it's kind of so I think there's kind of an

1040
00:57:17,645 --> 00:57:23,445
Speaker 4: interesting connection between these two movies as these unique singular

1041
00:57:24,125 --> 00:57:28,405
Speaker 4: phenomena coming from outsiders to the system, you know, coming

1042
00:57:28,445 --> 00:57:30,725
Speaker 4: onto the scene and really making a splash.

1043
00:57:31,245 --> 00:57:34,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think in both cases there is just

1044
00:57:34,285 --> 00:57:38,085
Speaker 2: sort of a sense of something that isn't coming out

1045
00:57:38,125 --> 00:57:41,885
Speaker 2: through the studio system exactly. I mean, obviously a twenty

1046
00:57:41,885 --> 00:57:47,725
Speaker 2: four backed backed back Rooms so to speak, but you know,

1047
00:57:47,925 --> 00:57:51,685
Speaker 2: the phenomena itself and parsons ideas for it were all

1048
00:57:51,725 --> 00:57:55,645
Speaker 2: pre studio and Coscarelli obviously working very independently on his

1049
00:57:55,685 --> 00:57:58,565
Speaker 2: own means that these movies just don't have the kind

1050
00:57:58,565 --> 00:58:02,765
Speaker 2: of like focus tested four quadrant. Let's get something toyetic

1051
00:58:02,845 --> 00:58:05,645
Speaker 2: in there. Let's have a joke for the adults, Like

1052
00:58:06,045 --> 00:58:08,045
Speaker 2: let's have a joke for the millennials. Let's make sure

1053
00:58:08,045 --> 00:58:12,405
Speaker 2: everybody's represented like that kind of processed feeling to them. Though,

1054
00:58:12,445 --> 00:58:17,165
Speaker 2: it'll be very interesting to see, like what things look

1055
00:58:17,205 --> 00:58:18,485
Speaker 2: like by the time we get to the third or

1056
00:58:18,565 --> 00:58:20,165
Speaker 2: fourth Backrooms movie.

1057
00:58:20,485 --> 00:58:25,285
Speaker 4: I just love watching like the thought of studio bosses that,

1058
00:58:25,445 --> 00:58:29,685
Speaker 4: you know, the Monday after back Rooms coming out saying

1059
00:58:30,085 --> 00:58:32,965
Speaker 4: we need to make more movies about liminal spaces.

1060
00:58:33,005 --> 00:58:34,125
Speaker 3: Like like one of the.

1061
00:58:34,205 --> 00:58:38,005
Speaker 4: It's just so absurd actually posted a kind of a

1062
00:58:38,045 --> 00:58:41,405
Speaker 4: blue squad Sky posted what that had a certain virality

1063
00:58:41,405 --> 00:58:44,045
Speaker 4: to it that had it was just a picture of

1064
00:58:44,525 --> 00:58:48,325
Speaker 4: Michael Lerner and Barton Fink saying the kids want liminal spaces.

1065
00:58:48,365 --> 00:58:50,845
Speaker 4: And it's kind of like that of just like what

1066
00:58:50,925 --> 00:58:52,925
Speaker 4: a world do we live in which this is now

1067
00:58:53,045 --> 00:58:54,805
Speaker 4: something that they have to confront of, Just like what

1068
00:58:54,925 --> 00:58:58,085
Speaker 4: is this? What is this threat to Star Wars that

1069
00:58:59,085 --> 00:59:02,965
Speaker 4: there is weird these weird images that these vibe, this

1070
00:59:03,165 --> 00:59:05,845
Speaker 4: vibe based horror, Like, what do we even do with that?

1071
00:59:06,045 --> 00:59:07,325
Speaker 3: Is a if your studio.

1072
00:59:07,045 --> 00:59:11,205
Speaker 4: Addicted to IP, addicted to you know, you know, trying

1073
00:59:11,245 --> 00:59:15,245
Speaker 4: to bold something like Star Wars, you know, a million

1074
00:59:15,285 --> 00:59:17,245
Speaker 4: different ways to try to make money off of it.

1075
00:59:17,685 --> 00:59:20,845
Speaker 4: How do you pivot from that into into even coming

1076
00:59:21,085 --> 00:59:24,285
Speaker 4: close to addressing something like what backrooms has to offer people.

1077
00:59:24,445 --> 00:59:27,205
Speaker 5: Stop one, get Wallace Berry to start in your liminal space.

1078
00:59:29,405 --> 00:59:32,645
Speaker 2: I think the funny thing in all of that is that,

1079
00:59:32,885 --> 00:59:35,885
Speaker 2: I mean, it was actually Jane showen Brun's We're All

1080
00:59:35,925 --> 00:59:38,925
Speaker 2: Going to the World's Fair that I think gave me

1081
00:59:39,005 --> 00:59:42,605
Speaker 2: my best understanding of creepy pasta as somebody who does

1082
00:59:42,685 --> 00:59:45,365
Speaker 2: not spend a whole lot of time in creepy pasta forums,

1083
00:59:45,485 --> 00:59:49,125
Speaker 2: like writing liminal horror to put on the Internet to

1084
00:59:49,285 --> 00:59:52,845
Speaker 2: share with other people. And like, I rarely regret being

1085
00:59:53,085 --> 00:59:56,365
Speaker 2: born when I was and not being somebody who grew

1086
00:59:56,445 --> 01:00:00,045
Speaker 2: up with the Internet. It seems like those kids have

1087
01:00:00,405 --> 01:00:02,645
Speaker 2: a lot of stressors to deal with that I didn't have.

1088
01:00:03,605 --> 01:00:06,845
Speaker 2: But I would have been the kid I think in

1089
01:00:07,325 --> 01:00:09,365
Speaker 2: We're All going to the World's Fair just you know,

1090
01:00:09,445 --> 01:00:14,125
Speaker 2: staying up all night talking to people online, like writing

1091
01:00:14,165 --> 01:00:17,765
Speaker 2: shared fiction, pretending that it was real stuff that was

1092
01:00:17,805 --> 01:00:20,165
Speaker 2: actually happening out there in the world somewhere. And that

1093
01:00:20,285 --> 01:00:23,165
Speaker 2: is a very limit movie about a very liminal experience,

1094
01:00:23,245 --> 01:00:26,645
Speaker 2: about writing very liminal horror. And I think a lot

1095
01:00:26,685 --> 01:00:31,325
Speaker 2: of creepy pasta does have that flavor to it. And

1096
01:00:31,365 --> 01:00:37,165
Speaker 2: we're just getting the creepypasta generation coming up as very

1097
01:00:37,205 --> 01:00:41,485
Speaker 2: young filmmakers right now. You know people who again in

1098
01:00:41,525 --> 01:00:46,485
Speaker 2: toan Tucson who I uh interviewed about Undertone was a

1099
01:00:46,485 --> 01:00:50,925
Speaker 2: creepy pasta writer and published a creepy pasta novel like that.

1100
01:00:51,005 --> 01:00:55,805
Speaker 2: Whole idea of like liminal shared late night internet horror

1101
01:00:56,685 --> 01:00:59,605
Speaker 2: is kind of the thing that we're seeing a trend for.

1102
01:00:59,965 --> 01:01:03,605
Speaker 2: And it's as funny as you might find it to

1103
01:01:04,125 --> 01:01:07,925
Speaker 2: see a studio director pounding on his desk saying, get

1104
01:01:07,965 --> 01:01:10,725
Speaker 2: me pictures of a liminal horror. It's already happening. It's

1105
01:01:10,725 --> 01:01:14,045
Speaker 2: already all around us in a creepy, late night liminal

1106
01:01:14,125 --> 01:01:14,525
Speaker 2: kind of way.

1107
01:01:14,765 --> 01:01:15,005
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1108
01:01:15,045 --> 01:01:16,725
Speaker 5: I thought about up Undertone Tosha. By the way, I

1109
01:01:16,765 --> 01:01:18,405
Speaker 5: really liked that movie. I think it kind of got

1110
01:01:18,645 --> 01:01:21,125
Speaker 5: maybe it should have come out after back Rooms and

1111
01:01:21,165 --> 01:01:23,765
Speaker 5: there was more of an appetitive in weddit for this

1112
01:01:23,845 --> 01:01:27,485
Speaker 5: sort of thing. But yeah, I definitely recommend people seek

1113
01:01:27,565 --> 01:01:28,005
Speaker 5: that one out.

1114
01:01:28,165 --> 01:01:30,925
Speaker 2: I have found the ending of that movie very disappointing,

1115
01:01:31,005 --> 01:01:34,765
Speaker 2: but otherwise was very sold on it, and I agree

1116
01:01:35,885 --> 01:01:39,605
Speaker 2: it does seem like a good experience for people who

1117
01:01:39,645 --> 01:01:42,885
Speaker 2: really liked this movie. Before we transition out, I just

1118
01:01:42,925 --> 01:01:45,565
Speaker 2: want to note that again, I don't want to take

1119
01:01:45,565 --> 01:01:47,765
Speaker 2: a deep dive into any of these because of spoilers,

1120
01:01:47,805 --> 01:01:52,365
Speaker 2: but both of these movies feature creepy flies. Both of

1121
01:01:52,405 --> 01:01:56,885
Speaker 2: them feature humanoids that are not human getting mutilated in

1122
01:01:56,965 --> 01:02:00,365
Speaker 2: ways that make it clear how inhuman they are, and

1123
01:02:00,685 --> 01:02:05,245
Speaker 2: both of them feature surprise reappearances from characters you definitely

1124
01:02:05,285 --> 01:02:07,765
Speaker 2: thought you had seen the last of, just suddenly popping

1125
01:02:07,845 --> 01:02:10,685
Speaker 2: up to say, hey here, I am totally alive and stuff.

1126
01:02:12,845 --> 01:02:16,045
Speaker 2: At any rate, Patasm is available on DVD and Blu Ray.

1127
01:02:16,245 --> 01:02:20,245
Speaker 2: It's on quite a variety of streaming channels, especially the

1128
01:02:20,285 --> 01:02:22,445
Speaker 2: ad supported three ones that you're going to have to

1129
01:02:22,445 --> 01:02:24,485
Speaker 2: do a fair bit of service hopping if you want

1130
01:02:24,485 --> 01:02:28,085
Speaker 2: to watch the whole series. Back Rooms is currently in theaters.

1131
01:02:28,285 --> 01:02:41,165
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with your next picture show. Finally,

1132
01:02:41,165 --> 01:02:43,725
Speaker 2: it's time to recommend a film or film related item

1133
01:02:43,805 --> 01:02:46,445
Speaker 2: that complements this set of episodes, we call it Your

1134
01:02:46,485 --> 01:02:48,525
Speaker 2: Next Picture Show in the hopes that it'll put some

1135
01:02:48,645 --> 01:02:52,045
Speaker 2: interesting choices on your radar. Keith, when I asked who

1136
01:02:52,165 --> 01:02:55,285
Speaker 2: wanted to suggest what for this segment, you had a

1137
01:02:55,445 --> 01:02:57,365
Speaker 2: suggestion that I got very excited about.

1138
01:02:57,565 --> 01:03:00,965
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I was struck by Backrooms resemblance to

1139
01:03:01,005 --> 01:03:05,045
Speaker 5: a film that came out earlier this year called Exit eight,

1140
01:03:05,205 --> 01:03:09,045
Speaker 5: which is a Japanese film inspired by a video game

1141
01:03:09,685 --> 01:03:11,885
Speaker 5: that's very much sort of a LIVEL Spaces kind of thing.

1142
01:03:12,325 --> 01:03:16,765
Speaker 5: The premise of the promise of the game first is

1143
01:03:16,805 --> 01:03:22,645
Speaker 5: that you are walking through a Japanese subway order and

1144
01:03:23,045 --> 01:03:27,365
Speaker 5: there are features. There's you know, lights overhead, there are

1145
01:03:27,405 --> 01:03:31,205
Speaker 5: a series of posters, there are a man walks by you,

1146
01:03:32,085 --> 01:03:36,245
Speaker 5: et cetera, et cetera. Now, to beat the game, you

1147
01:03:36,285 --> 01:03:40,085
Speaker 5: have to only walk through the quarters when they are normal.

1148
01:03:40,605 --> 01:03:44,005
Speaker 5: Any aberration the term using that will make you start

1149
01:03:44,045 --> 01:03:46,605
Speaker 5: over again. So like they can be like really small changes,

1150
01:03:46,645 --> 01:03:49,965
Speaker 5: like the posters are the wrong size to hear some

1151
01:03:50,045 --> 01:03:53,085
Speaker 5: really creepy stuff that's going to kill you. So that

1152
01:03:53,285 --> 01:03:57,805
Speaker 5: does not sound like a solid basis for film, but

1153
01:03:58,005 --> 01:04:01,925
Speaker 5: it actually I really did enjoy the film version that

1154
01:04:02,045 --> 01:04:06,885
Speaker 5: came out earlier this year, which was directed by Ginki Kabawara,

1155
01:04:07,365 --> 01:04:13,045
Speaker 5: and it basically is a fairly faithful adaptation of that premise,

1156
01:04:13,085 --> 01:04:17,365
Speaker 5: but in a way that works cinematically. You saw Tasha well.

1157
01:04:17,485 --> 01:04:19,645
Speaker 5: I mean, I liked this one quite a bit.

1158
01:04:19,765 --> 01:04:22,845
Speaker 2: I loved it up talking to the director about it

1159
01:04:22,885 --> 01:04:27,845
Speaker 2: and reading the novelization that he wrote of the movie,

1160
01:04:28,325 --> 01:04:31,565
Speaker 2: which is kind of a very strange wrinkle. That novelization

1161
01:04:31,645 --> 01:04:34,565
Speaker 2: not coming out until September also a very strange wrinkle.

1162
01:04:35,045 --> 01:04:39,045
Speaker 2: The same guy, he's been a producer on a lot

1163
01:04:39,165 --> 01:04:43,885
Speaker 2: of kind of the biggest anime spectacular movies of the

1164
01:04:44,245 --> 01:04:47,165
Speaker 2: past several years, you know, things like Your Name and

1165
01:04:48,285 --> 01:04:51,725
Speaker 2: Weathering with You, a lot of Makodo Shinkai movies basically.

1166
01:04:52,765 --> 01:04:56,005
Speaker 2: But he also wrote a book called If Katz Disappeared

1167
01:04:56,005 --> 01:04:59,285
Speaker 2: from the World, in which a man who is dying

1168
01:04:59,645 --> 01:05:01,805
Speaker 2: has the devil appeared to him and say, I will

1169
01:05:01,845 --> 01:05:05,005
Speaker 2: greet you another day of life for everything valuable that

1170
01:05:05,045 --> 01:05:08,405
Speaker 2: you let me destroy in the world. I wish that

1171
01:05:08,485 --> 01:05:13,165
Speaker 2: the book was better. It's very plain and straightforward around

1172
01:05:13,205 --> 01:05:15,805
Speaker 2: that premise. But suffice it to say, I think this

1173
01:05:15,845 --> 01:05:18,805
Speaker 2: guy is very creative and interesting. I really like what

1174
01:05:18,885 --> 01:05:22,565
Speaker 2: he does with the video game, which is just kind

1175
01:05:22,605 --> 01:05:27,645
Speaker 2: of like a creepy vibes based spot the anominally game,

1176
01:05:27,725 --> 01:05:31,765
Speaker 2: which is apparently an entire genre I did not know

1177
01:05:32,805 --> 01:05:36,325
Speaker 2: anything about until I started watching playthroughs of Exitate the

1178
01:05:36,405 --> 01:05:41,485
Speaker 2: game after watching the movie. Really really strange experience watching

1179
01:05:41,845 --> 01:05:45,645
Speaker 2: how ip spirals from one thing to another thing to

1180
01:05:45,685 --> 01:05:50,005
Speaker 2: another thing these days. But the movie itself does really

1181
01:05:50,045 --> 01:05:53,205
Speaker 2: interesting things with the central character, and it is about something,

1182
01:05:53,885 --> 01:05:58,685
Speaker 2: and that something is small and personal enough that I

1183
01:05:58,685 --> 01:06:00,645
Speaker 2: feel like I wouldn't want to give it away because

1184
01:06:00,725 --> 01:06:05,045
Speaker 2: kind of like Unpacking, it's not at all ambiguous the

1185
01:06:05,125 --> 01:06:07,605
Speaker 2: way a back Rooms might be. By the end of

1186
01:06:07,645 --> 01:06:10,565
Speaker 2: the movie, it's very clear what the theme is. But

1187
01:06:10,645 --> 01:06:14,725
Speaker 2: I think it's very well done in a pretty like

1188
01:06:15,205 --> 01:06:19,285
Speaker 2: by the end like maximalist emotional way. And I also

1189
01:06:19,285 --> 01:06:20,965
Speaker 2: think that this movie is just creepy as heck.

1190
01:06:22,085 --> 01:06:25,165
Speaker 5: Indeed, I think any people who like back Rooms would

1191
01:06:25,165 --> 01:06:27,645
Speaker 5: probably like this one as well. Another other film that

1192
01:06:27,685 --> 01:06:29,805
Speaker 5: might have benefited from coming out after back Rooms.

1193
01:06:30,045 --> 01:06:32,445
Speaker 2: If you're into corridors, if it turns out that that's

1194
01:06:32,445 --> 01:06:35,605
Speaker 2: what you're in it for, is just repeating corridors. This

1195
01:06:35,685 --> 01:06:38,565
Speaker 2: movie is straight up your ally, which is also a

1196
01:06:38,645 --> 01:06:40,405
Speaker 2: kind of narrow, long corridor.

1197
01:06:40,645 --> 01:06:44,005
Speaker 4: I've not seen this film, and I am a corridor funatic,

1198
01:06:45,005 --> 01:06:48,765
Speaker 4: so I'm excited to check this one out.

1199
01:06:48,765 --> 01:06:57,085
Speaker 3: If you all are this enthusiastic about it, that's.

1200
01:06:56,925 --> 01:06:58,845
Speaker 2: It for this edition of The Next Picture Show, Scott,

1201
01:06:58,885 --> 01:07:00,485
Speaker 2: can you tell us about our next pairing?

1202
01:07:00,845 --> 01:07:03,125
Speaker 4: The question of whether we're alone in the universe has

1203
01:07:03,165 --> 01:07:06,405
Speaker 4: been asked and answered with an emphatic yes by director

1204
01:07:06,445 --> 01:07:10,325
Speaker 4: Steven Spielberg over five different films, starting with Close Encounters

1205
01:07:10,325 --> 01:07:13,765
Speaker 4: of the Third Kind. The bigger question for Spielberg is

1206
01:07:13,805 --> 01:07:17,245
Speaker 4: always what those close encounters might be like, and whether

1207
01:07:17,365 --> 01:07:20,285
Speaker 4: humanity can keep from screwing it up. In his new

1208
01:07:20,285 --> 01:07:23,885
Speaker 4: film Disclosure Day, Spielberg follows the frantic efforts of government

1209
01:07:23,885 --> 01:07:27,725
Speaker 4: whistleblowers to reveal that, yes, aliens have crash landed on

1210
01:07:27,725 --> 01:07:29,845
Speaker 4: Earth and people have the right to know about it.

1211
01:07:30,405 --> 01:07:34,045
Speaker 4: Yet there's no guarantee that humanity possesses the collective empathy

1212
01:07:34,085 --> 01:07:38,245
Speaker 4: to handle the news. That idea evokes Spielberg's nineteen eighty

1213
01:07:38,285 --> 01:07:42,245
Speaker 4: two classic et The Extraterrestrial, in which a vulnerable alien

1214
01:07:42,365 --> 01:07:45,125
Speaker 4: abandoned on Earth forms a powerful bond with a ten

1215
01:07:45,165 --> 01:07:48,245
Speaker 4: year old boy while scary government agents try to track

1216
01:07:48,325 --> 01:07:51,565
Speaker 4: him down. So turn on your heartlights. Next week, Next

1217
01:07:51,565 --> 01:07:56,085
Speaker 4: Picture Show listeners, as we make first contact with Disclosure.

1218
01:07:55,605 --> 01:07:56,405
Speaker 3: Day in et.

1219
01:07:56,965 --> 01:07:59,885
Speaker 2: For now, we welcome your feedback on Phantasm, back rooms,

1220
01:07:59,925 --> 01:08:02,485
Speaker 2: and anything else film related you'd like to talk about.

1221
01:08:02,725 --> 01:08:04,925
Speaker 2: Emails at comments at Next Picture Show dot net, or

1222
01:08:05,005 --> 01:08:07,525
Speaker 2: leave us a voice mail at seven seven three two

1223
01:08:07,525 --> 01:08:10,925
Speaker 2: three four nine seven three zero before we close out

1224
01:08:10,925 --> 01:08:14,445
Speaker 2: this week's episode. Where can we find everyone these days? Scott?

1225
01:08:14,725 --> 01:08:18,365
Speaker 4: Uh, yeah, you can find me primarily at the Reveal

1226
01:08:18,644 --> 01:08:22,605
Speaker 4: Thereveal dot film, the newsletter that I write with Keith Pipps.

1227
01:08:22,885 --> 01:08:27,085
Speaker 4: We've got a lot of exciting content on there this week.

1228
01:08:27,085 --> 01:08:29,804
Speaker 4: I did I have an interview coming up with well,

1229
01:08:29,845 --> 01:08:32,405
Speaker 4: it would will have already run with h with a

1230
01:08:32,405 --> 01:08:37,285
Speaker 4: couple of the directors of the series documentary now which is.

1231
01:08:36,684 --> 01:08:39,045
Speaker 5: It'll run tomorrow Scott. If you people listening to this

1232
01:08:39,085 --> 01:08:39,325
Speaker 5: on the.

1233
01:08:39,245 --> 01:08:40,684
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, this is incredible.

1234
01:08:40,725 --> 01:08:44,205
Speaker 4: No, not not No, will run a week before, right, Keith,

1235
01:08:44,525 --> 01:08:46,405
Speaker 4: this is the second episode.

1236
01:08:46,365 --> 01:08:47,965
Speaker 5: I've trapped in the back rooms. I don't even know.

1237
01:08:48,045 --> 01:08:51,445
Speaker 4: Yes, it would run, yeah, so I've run for a week.

1238
01:08:51,485 --> 01:08:53,485
Speaker 4: But pretty exciting because that that that's the show, one

1239
01:08:53,525 --> 01:08:55,965
Speaker 4: of the one of those handful of shows that you

1240
01:08:56,085 --> 01:09:00,565
Speaker 4: just cannot believe got made because it's so niche h

1241
01:09:00,645 --> 01:09:02,725
Speaker 4: and it's so wonderful, and so it's really it's good

1242
01:09:02,885 --> 01:09:05,245
Speaker 4: to be able to talk about that. And this really

1243
01:09:05,285 --> 01:09:08,765
Speaker 4: cool book that's being put out by McSweeney's and in

1244
01:09:08,845 --> 01:09:09,525
Speaker 4: support of it.

1245
01:09:09,605 --> 01:09:11,765
Speaker 3: A beautiful book. So there's that.

1246
01:09:11,845 --> 01:09:13,085
Speaker 4: And then you can find my other work at The

1247
01:09:13,085 --> 01:09:17,005
Speaker 4: New York Times, at Vulture and other fine publications, and

1248
01:09:17,045 --> 01:09:20,685
Speaker 4: you can find me on Blue Sky at Scott Tobias Tasha.

1249
01:09:20,405 --> 01:09:21,005
Speaker 5: What about You.

1250
01:09:21,605 --> 01:09:24,085
Speaker 2: Well, I am a freelancer these days. I'm still writing

1251
01:09:24,085 --> 01:09:26,925
Speaker 2: a fair bit for Polygon, but no longer working there.

1252
01:09:27,405 --> 01:09:31,564
Speaker 2: Also currently writing for a Vulture, both recapping Game Changer

1253
01:09:31,605 --> 01:09:34,525
Speaker 2: on Dropout the Great Joy of My Life the show,

1254
01:09:34,605 --> 01:09:37,085
Speaker 2: not necessarily the recaps, although the recaps are fine too,

1255
01:09:37,405 --> 01:09:40,325
Speaker 2: and also writing about back rooms over there what the

1256
01:09:40,365 --> 01:09:43,564
Speaker 2: freelance future holds. We will find out when we find out.

1257
01:09:44,325 --> 01:09:46,564
Speaker 2: And you can also find me on Blue Sky at

1258
01:09:46,685 --> 01:09:48,525
Speaker 2: Tasha Robinson Keith what about You.

1259
01:09:49,245 --> 01:09:51,845
Speaker 5: I do freelance sometimes all right, for your Vultures and

1260
01:09:52,685 --> 01:09:58,445
Speaker 5: Slate and other play TV Guide sometimes, but mostly you

1261
01:09:58,485 --> 01:10:00,525
Speaker 5: can find me at their reveal, and that's again the

1262
01:10:00,605 --> 01:10:03,405
Speaker 5: reveal dot film where I don't know some things that

1263
01:10:03,445 --> 01:10:06,965
Speaker 5: I'm working on. I'm doing a summer long series each

1264
01:10:07,005 --> 01:10:09,805
Speaker 5: month called drive in seventy six where I look at

1265
01:10:09,845 --> 01:10:13,485
Speaker 5: a handful of movies that played the summer, usually like

1266
01:10:13,525 --> 01:10:16,925
Speaker 5: one big release, and summer fifty years ago, usually like

1267
01:10:16,965 --> 01:10:18,764
Speaker 5: one big release is like a lot of little releases,

1268
01:10:18,805 --> 01:10:20,645
Speaker 5: and which has led to all kinds of fun discoveries.

1269
01:10:21,285 --> 01:10:25,005
Speaker 5: This movie I just watched called Lifeguard, starring a young

1270
01:10:25,045 --> 01:10:27,724
Speaker 5: Sam Elliott, which is to say thirty something Sam Elliot

1271
01:10:27,725 --> 01:10:30,644
Speaker 5: because he's playing and a lifeguard who maybe be aging

1272
01:10:30,645 --> 01:10:32,765
Speaker 5: out of the job and this is this worries him,

1273
01:10:32,805 --> 01:10:35,485
Speaker 5: but not too much. It really is honestly one of

1274
01:10:35,285 --> 01:10:39,564
Speaker 5: the mellowest movies I've ever seen, apart from a very

1275
01:10:39,885 --> 01:10:45,045
Speaker 5: uncomfortable subplot involving the lifeguard's relationship with a seventeen year

1276
01:10:45,045 --> 01:10:49,205
Speaker 5: old played by Kathleen Quinland. So anyway, it's it was

1277
01:10:49,245 --> 01:10:52,605
Speaker 5: a different time, or not really not different enough, but

1278
01:10:52,725 --> 01:10:56,125
Speaker 5: still nonetheless a very very pleasant movie with some creepy

1279
01:10:56,365 --> 01:10:58,245
Speaker 5: subtext to it which I would not have discovered if

1280
01:10:58,245 --> 01:11:00,645
Speaker 5: I had not been exploring the drive in movies of

1281
01:11:00,965 --> 01:11:02,245
Speaker 5: the year in nineteen seventy six.

1282
01:11:02,565 --> 01:11:05,685
Speaker 4: This series has been a treat. I can't believe it's

1283
01:11:05,685 --> 01:11:08,805
Speaker 4: such a good idea. Just it makes me upset he

1284
01:11:08,965 --> 01:11:11,405
Speaker 4: has discovered it, and it just really kind of takes

1285
01:11:11,445 --> 01:11:13,725
Speaker 4: you back to this time and place and all the

1286
01:11:13,805 --> 01:11:16,564
Speaker 4: kind of odd movies that you might have had a

1287
01:11:16,645 --> 01:11:18,604
Speaker 4: chance to see if you dug around a little bit.

1288
01:11:18,685 --> 01:11:20,965
Speaker 3: So definitely check it out and are absent.

1289
01:11:21,085 --> 01:11:24,125
Speaker 2: Co host to Genevieve Cooski, is on Blue Sky at

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Speaker 2: Genevieve Cooski and is the TV editor over at Vulture,

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Speaker 2: where many of us are writing. Not a coincidence. Guys,

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Speaker 2: stay updated on The Next Picture Show at Next Picture

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Speaker 2: Show dot net and at Blue Sky at the Next

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Speaker 2: Picture Show, get bonus content and open discussion at Patreon

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Speaker 2: dot com slash Next Picture Show, and as always, we

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Speaker 2: appreciate your ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

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Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to Dan

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Speaker 2: the Bake Jakes for his assistance in producing this podcast.

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Speaker 2: The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of

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Speaker 2: the Film Spotting family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

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Speaker 2: That was a good movie?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I seen here before once