1 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westervelt. For the rest 2 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: of the year, we'll be bringing you two episodes a 3 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: month that continue the story we began in season one, 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: unpacking some of the more complex aspects of the climate 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: denial machine and looking at what's happening now, from ongoing 6 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: influence campaigns to lawsuits, newly uncovered documents, and more. We're 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: also in the process of reporting two more investigative series, 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: which I'll share more about as we get closer to 9 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: wrapping them up. It turns out there's a lot more 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: to this story. In the first season of Drilled, we 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: looked at the origins of climate denial the nineteen eighties 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: and nineteen nineties, but those influence campaigns are not ancient history. 13 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: They're still going on and today we have a pretty 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: crazy example of how they've evolved. You're going to hear 15 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: about a fake news site created by an energy association 16 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: that keeps its members secret, staffed by a PR firm 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: with a large roster of fossil fuel clients. First meet 18 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: Marco Simons, an attorney with Earth Rights International representing the 19 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: City of Boulder and various other Colorado communities in a 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: lawsuit against Exonmobile and Suncore. They're seeking compensation for the 21 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: costs of adapting to climate change. A month or so ago, 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: an energy news site requested an interview with Simons about 23 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: the case. 24 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 2: We knew about Western Wire's affiliation with the Western Energy 25 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: Alliance for We've known about that for quite a while. 26 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: What's new here is there apparent specific association with Exxon. 27 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: The site Western Wire is published by the Western Energy Alliance, 28 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: an oil and gas industry trade group. They keep their 29 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: members secret, and Simons wanted to make sure that neither 30 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: of the defendants in his suit we're members. Here's the 31 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: beginning of their conversation. You'll here Western Wire managing editor 32 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: Michael Standabal first, then Simon's responding. 33 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: So, thank you for taking some time. I am doing 34 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 3: the story on this, so I'm I am just let 35 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: you know I'm recording the call. If that's an issue, sure, 36 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: I wanted to let you know want and let you 37 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: know that upfront. I had sent you a couple of questions. 38 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,959 Speaker 3: I have a couple of other questions, but just sort 39 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: of up to you. You know how you want to proceed. 40 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 4: But I'm happy to walk through those. 41 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 3: And again, thank you for taking the time this morning. 42 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 5: No problem. Before we get started, I I was wondering 43 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 5: if I could get a little more information about Western Wire. 44 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: Sure. 45 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 5: So my understanding is that that Western Wire is a 46 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 5: project of the Western Enternciation Western Ergy Alliance, right, And 47 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 5: it's staffed by primarily by staff of FTI Consulting, and 48 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 5: so presentably that's that's FTI Consulting on a contract to 49 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 5: under a contract to Western Energy Alliance. 50 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 3: Is that right? 51 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: Okay, So there's a lot to unpack here. We hear 52 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: about fake news and attempts to manipulate the media and 53 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: the public all the time these days, but this is 54 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: a close up look. The Western Wire editor Sandobal has 55 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: presented himself as a reporter from a news site, but 56 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: he's employed by FTI Consulting, a DC headquartered global public 57 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: relations firm, and that firm has been hired by the 58 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: Western Energy Alliance to run Western Wire. The Western Energy 59 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: Alliance claims to represent mostly small independent producer but representatives 60 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: from large fossil fuel companies sit on its board. The 61 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: Alliance launched Western Wire in twenty seventeen. The site bills 62 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: itself as the quote go to source for news, commentary 63 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: and analysis on pro growth, pro development policies across the West. 64 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,799 Speaker 1: These types of sites and the organizations behind them, almost 65 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: always with their membership secret, have become more and more 66 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: common in the past decade as fossil fuel companies have 67 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: increasingly had to publicly acknowledge climate change and commit to 68 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: working to mitigate it. Still, it's pretty next level to 69 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: see these sites sending public relations staff to pose as 70 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: reporters and question legal opponents of oil companies. Here's more 71 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: of that exchange between Simon's and Western Wire managing editor 72 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: Michael Sandoval. Note how he neither confirms nor denies that 73 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: Exon is a member of the alliance. 74 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 5: And correct me if I'm wrong. But Western Energy Alliance 75 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 5: includes Exon as one of its members. Is that is 76 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 5: that right? 77 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 4: I don't know. 78 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 3: I'm not privy to the membership of Western Umberalent. 79 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 5: Okay, Well, it does include an executive from Exon on 80 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 5: its board, right. 81 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 4: Yeah. 82 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: Sandoval acknowledges that an Exon exec is on the board 83 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: of the Western Energy Alliance, but he won't answer the 84 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: question about whether or not Exon is one of its members. 85 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: That's important, not just because acknowledging industry involvement in your 86 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: news site is kind of journalism ethics one oh one. 87 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: But also because Exon is one of the defendants in 88 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: the case that Simon's is bringing, which makes the whole 89 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: quote interview thing seem suspicious. The questions that were email 90 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: to Simon's ahead of this awkward phone call were also strange. 91 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: According to Simons. 92 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: What they had asked me in an original In the 93 00:05:53,320 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: original email is they wanted to know about communication between 94 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 2: the Colorado communities and other municipalities on their legal strategy. 95 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: They wanted to know whether we were talking with other 96 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 2: law firms about litigation strategy. You know, things that journalists 97 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 2: might ask about, but in a lot of cases we 98 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 2: would consider to be confidential. 99 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: That's important because Exon has been trying to accuse the 100 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: attorneys bringing climate liability suits against it of being part 101 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: of a vast conspiracy against the company. We're going to 102 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: get into what that's all about in another episode, but 103 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: let's get back to the conversation between Simon's and Western 104 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: Wire editor Sandoval, who brings his colleague Matt Dempsey in 105 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: as a sort of bulldog. You'll hear Simons repeat multiple 106 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: times that he can't speak to them unless they can 107 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,279 Speaker 1: confirm that they're not representatives of Exxon in any way, 108 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: and you'll never hear that question answered. 109 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 5: I guess I'm just concerned from a conflexpon active if 110 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 5: you're being funded by an organization that you don't know 111 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 5: they're members, how do you, I guess, ensure you know 112 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 5: lack of conflicts from a journalistic integrity point. 113 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 3: Of view, what my colleague mad Density is here as. 114 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 4: Well as can answer some questions. Sure well, I just 115 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 4: walked in the door. It sounds like you're asking some 116 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 4: questions about the membership of the alliance. Is this being 117 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 4: done in Are you asking questions as a lawyer as 118 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: part of representing Boulder or is this for your own 119 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 4: personal information. We're ready to proceed on an interview about 120 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 4: the case, but if this is something else, we need 121 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 4: to know that now. 122 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 5: I'm just trying to figure out whether, I mean, obviously, 123 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 5: if you're if you're representatives of Excellon in any fashion, 124 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 5: I can't talk to you because you know, Exon is 125 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 5: represented by counsel and the litigation. 126 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 4: The City of Bolder and asked us to talk with 127 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 4: you as a representative of the City of Boulder. So 128 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 4: if what youven taking of the City of Bolder. We're 129 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 4: happy to but they preferred to talk to you. 130 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 5: No, that's I understand that. What I'm saying is that 131 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 5: if you're representatives of Exon in any fashion, I can't 132 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 5: talk to you about the litigation as an ethical matter 133 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 5: because Exon is represented by council and I can only 134 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 5: talk to their council. 135 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 4: Okay, So do you want to email to the City 136 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 4: of Bolder representatives say that the best person to discuss 137 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 4: Bolder's role in this case is for them to respond directly. 138 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 5: I mean, how how you proceed is up to you. 139 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 5: All I'm saying is that if you're representatives of Exon 140 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 5: in any way, you know, rather than an independent news organization, 141 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 5: I can't talk to you about this litigation. 142 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 4: Do you speak the Insight Climate Youth. 143 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 5: I can't talk to you about this litigation at all. 144 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 5: If you are representatives of Exon and any fact are you. 145 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: Have you spoken with the Inside Climate News or any 146 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 4: other organization funded by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund. 147 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 5: I'm going to give you the same answer, which is 148 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 5: that I can't speak with you about this litigation at 149 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 5: all if you are representatives of Exon in any fashion. 150 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 6: All right, it's want to be clear that we are 151 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 6: on the record, this is being recorded, and this will 152 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 6: be in the story. So I reviewed the comment about 153 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 6: whether you say you have a conflict speaking with Western Wire, 154 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 6: whether you do not have a conflict in speaking with 155 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 6: the West with Inside Climate News or. 156 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 4: Climate Liability News. 157 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 5: I only have a conflict in speaking with Western Wire 158 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 5: if you are representatives of Exon in any way. So 159 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 5: that's my comment. 160 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 4: Are okay, that's that's important for us to know. We 161 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 4: will talk to the City and County of Boulder directly. Again, 162 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 4: they have referred us to you. It seems like that 163 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 4: that's not a good fit, so we will go back. 164 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 4: I can speak with them. 165 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 5: I can tell you no attorney from the city is 166 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 5: going to talk with you if you can't confirm that 167 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 5: you are not representatives of Exxon in any way. 168 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 4: Well, the city and County represents the people of Boulder, 169 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 4: and they have an obligation to provide comment. As the 170 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 4: City and County of Boarder. 171 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 5: They don't have an obligation to talk to an opposing 172 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 5: party in litigation outside the courtroom. 173 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 4: So you are you speaking on behalf of the city 174 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 4: and County of Border right now. 175 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 5: All I'm telling you is I cannot comment at all 176 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 5: about this litigation. 177 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 4: Are you speaking on behalf of the city and county 178 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 4: of Boarder. 179 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 5: I cannot comment about this litigation unless you can tell 180 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 5: me that you are not representatives in any way of excellent. 181 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 4: Okay, I think we are done here. Thank you very 182 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 4: much for your time. Thank you. 183 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: So you heard in the clip that Dempsey from Western 184 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: Wire is trying to equate nonprofit news outlets funded in 185 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: part by foundations and staffed by veteran journalists to outlets 186 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: funded by oil companies, which seems like a stretch. But 187 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: even if we take those two things as equivalent, the 188 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: comparison is irrelevant because the funders of the sites Dempsey 189 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: mentioned are not named defendants in the case Simons is bringing. 190 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: And Simons's argument is not I can't talk to you 191 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: because you're funded by fossil fuel interests. It's I can't 192 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: talk to you because you're representatives of the defendant in 193 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: a case I'm trying. Here's Simons explaining that a bit more. 194 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 2: Where the legal sort of rules come in for me 195 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 2: is that as an attorney representing a plaintiff and litigation, 196 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: I'm not allowed to talk with the defendants step through 197 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: their lawyers. So that's that was the biggest problem for me, 198 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 2: and talking with representatives of Western Wire if because they 199 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 2: wouldn't deny being agents of Excellon and I've never had 200 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,599 Speaker 2: that happen before, where you know, agents or representatives of 201 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: an opposing party in litigation of a defendant in litigation 202 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: would actually reach out and try to obtain information about 203 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 2: that litigation, including potentially confidential strategy information, you know, directly 204 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: from the lawyers on the other side. And if I 205 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 2: were to talk to them, it's possible it could lead 206 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,839 Speaker 2: to some sort of ethics charge against me. So that 207 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 2: is really unusual, and you know, we hope we don't 208 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: see more of that. 209 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: Western Wire is not the first one of these sites, 210 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: and it's not the only one either. There are a 211 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: lot of them, many of which have been around for years. 212 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: Energy in Depth, for example, is a quote news site 213 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: that was created in two thousand and nine by the 214 00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: Independent Petroleum Association of America, which Simon's just mentioned there. 215 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: It's another group that does not disclose its membership and 216 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: positions itself as a representative of small independent producers, the 217 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: moms and pops of the industry, but in an internal 218 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: memo that will link to in the show notes, the 219 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: IPAA described Energy and Depth as quote not being possible 220 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: without the early financial commitments of El Paso Corporation, Xto 221 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: Energy now owned by Exomobile, Occidental Petroleum BP, Anadarko Marathon 222 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: in Canna, Chevron, Talisman Shell, the API that's the American 223 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: Petroleum Institute, IPAA, Halliburton Schlomborge, and the Ohio Oil and 224 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: Gas Association. I have to say I found this particularly 225 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: amusing because Energy and Depth wrote critically about this show, 226 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: and one of our funding sources, which we include in 227 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: the credits of every episode, it's not hard to find. 228 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: Here's the deal. Everyone has the right to influence people, 229 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: to persuade them to see their side of things. That's 230 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,319 Speaker 1: a First Amendment right, and it happens all the time 231 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: across the spectrum of issues and opinions. But when you're 232 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: misrepresenting opinions as facts, pr as news publicists as journalists, 233 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: that's something else altogether. That's deception. 234 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 7: Next time on Drilled in more news from the Supreme Court. 235 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 7: Justice is rejected a bid Monday by Exceon Mobil to 236 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 7: block Massachusetts from investigating whether the oil giant misled the 237 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 7: public and stakeholders about climate change. Massachusetts Attorney General Mara 238 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 7: Heally tweeted today's SCOTUS victory clears the way for our 239 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 7: office to investigate Exxon's conduct toward consumers and investors. The 240 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 7: public deserves answers from this company about what it knew 241 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 7: about the impacts of burning fossil fuels and when. 242 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: Drilled is produced and distributed by Critical Frequency. The show 243 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: is reported by me. Music and mixing are from David 244 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: White and Damien Arrett. Rika Murphy is our story consultant. 245 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: Our cover art was drawn by Lucas Lezakowski. Drilled is 246 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: funded in part by a generous grant from the Institute 247 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: for Governance and Sustainable Development. You can find Drilled wherever 248 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Please remember to rate and review 249 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: the podcast wherever you find it. It helps us find listeners. 250 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: Thanks again, see you next time.