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Speaker 1: You're tuned into The Gangster Chronicles. Well, James McDonald and

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Speaker 1: Allen Tomanso on the Digital Soapbox Network material witness on

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Speaker 1: an aggregated battery, I was a hang gun and um,

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Speaker 1: they believe this might be in retaliation to our testimony.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening wherever you may

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Speaker 1: be listening from. Welcome to another episode of The Gangster Chronicles.

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Speaker 1: My name is Alex Alonso from Street TV a k a.

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Speaker 1: Street Gangs, and I'm here with my co host James

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Speaker 1: McDonald and we are what's this our second episode without

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Speaker 1: Reggie Wright Jr. So we're doing the show. We're holding

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Speaker 1: it down without Reggie Wright Jr. This is episode thirty three.

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Speaker 1: And if you're new to the podcast, please go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to a few other episodes because you'll see

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Speaker 1: that a lot of our episodes are interrelated and you

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Speaker 1: won't start hearing me till episode three. So don't fill

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Speaker 1: my inbox with all these questions. And if you listen

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Speaker 1: to us on Apple Podcast, please leave us a rating

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Speaker 1: and a review so that we continue bringing you this

19
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Speaker 1: amazing content. You could also post a comment and a

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Speaker 1: question that we will answer on the air. And if

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Speaker 1: you want, you could audio a question via your cell

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Speaker 1: phone and texted to us d m U s uh

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Speaker 1: posted on the Facebook page and if the question is worthy,

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Speaker 1: we'll play it on the air. And if you like

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Speaker 1: this podcast on Apple Podcast, give us a rating from

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Speaker 1: one to five five men that you're loving the show.

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Speaker 1: And for those who do not have Apple Podcast, you

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Speaker 1: could listen to us on Google Play for you Samsung

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Speaker 1: and Android users, Spotify and Radio dot com, or you

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Speaker 1: can listen to the podcast the way my mother does

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Speaker 1: and she just asked Siri play the Gangster Chronicles. And

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Speaker 1: you could also watch portions video portions of this podcast

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Speaker 1: on the Digital Soapbox Network that's on YouTube videos produced

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Speaker 1: by Smooth Cut Productions. And if you want to get

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Speaker 1: in touch with James, you can catch him on Facebook

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Speaker 1: and he is the one with the James McDonald with

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Speaker 1: the Harley in his profile and you could also find

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Speaker 1: them on Instagram at B I G G J thirty

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Speaker 1: six thirty six. And you can still get those death

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Speaker 1: Row t shirts from him night zero four and he

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Speaker 1: will deliver them to you within one of two days.

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Speaker 1: And you can find me at Street Gangs dot com.

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Speaker 1: Just click on the contact link and you can send

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Speaker 1: me a message via email. And I'm at all social

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Speaker 1: media platforms at alex Alonso one zero one that's on Twitter, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and Facebook. So, James, before we go into our show,

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Speaker 1: we got a special guest. But I want to just

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Speaker 1: cover a couple of facts from from the last couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks. I think I said that John Connolly, who

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Speaker 1: was the FBI agent that was working with Rusty Boulger

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Speaker 1: and Boston, was sentenced to life in prison. That is incorrect.

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Speaker 1: He was sentenced to ten years in the FEDS in

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Speaker 1: two thousand two. Then he got out in two thousand

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Speaker 1: eleven and they um, the State of Florida picked them

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Speaker 1: up for a murder and he was sent to forty

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Speaker 1: years there. The State of Florida has him scheduled for

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Speaker 1: his first parole date in twenty thirty nine and he

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Speaker 1: will be ninety eight years old. Yeah, what are you

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Speaker 1: if he's gonna even make it to years old inside

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Speaker 1: the Feds. Yeah, that's crazy. Now. About two episodes ago,

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Speaker 1: James Reggie Wright Jr. Was talking about the book deal

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Speaker 1: that maybe ray j has about Sugar Knight and ray

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Speaker 1: j Um Sugar Knight and whatever they're gonna whatever they're doing.

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Speaker 1: But I had through out there that hey, you don't

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Speaker 1: have to be on a major publishing shing, and you

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Speaker 1: could be an independent writer and get on a major

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Speaker 1: publishing like like um Monster Cody did and he was

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Speaker 1: published on Penguin. James had said, what do you say,

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Speaker 1: sinthing all that ain't no major publishing company. But Penguin

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Speaker 1: Publishing was founded in nineteen thirty four. It operates out

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Speaker 1: of London, England, and it is one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: publishers the history of America, I mean in history of

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Speaker 1: the world. Reggie didn't Reggie didn't know. And just because

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Speaker 1: Monster Cody from Matrix Gangster Crypt published his book under Penguin,

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Speaker 1: don't mean it was a major And I thought that

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Speaker 1: was a hell of accomplishment. Because Homeboy wrote his book

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Speaker 1: in the shoe in um Pelican Bay Duty. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know if he when he gave up the material,

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Speaker 1: they read that book and went through it and and

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Speaker 1: they re rewritten some stuff in there. Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: know the specifics of it, but it was a hell

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Speaker 1: of a book. It came out of. It's called An

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Speaker 1: Autobiography of a Los Angeles gang Member on Penguin. Penguin

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Speaker 1: is now merged with Random House since two thousand and thirteen.

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Speaker 1: So I just wanted to correct Reggie Wright Jr. On

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Speaker 1: that Penguin is a major publishing house. And the last

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Speaker 1: fact check, well, this ain't really a fact check. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to find out what was bus stop from O

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Speaker 1: F TBS real his actual job now I heard it

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Speaker 1: when he was a Cairo practor. I couldn't find it out,

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Speaker 1: so anyone out there knows, please hit us up. His

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Speaker 1: real name is Sammy Williams, and I couldn't figure out

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Speaker 1: what is his current profession, but I believe he's in

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Speaker 1: the medical field, which is amazing because he's from the

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Speaker 1: Bounty Hunters. He's from aout the Nickersons. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: good things come out of the project, for sure, Good

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Speaker 1: things come out of everywhere in every neighborhood. You got

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Speaker 1: some you got some catch that got skills. And your

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Speaker 1: brother was close to all them guys from o FTB right, Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: where we all were, We always close to him, um everybody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we had a good report with him. It was just

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Speaker 1: the politics that that divided everybody. Okay, all right, So

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Speaker 1: I just want to I got a just couple of

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Speaker 1: news updates um Joshua Brown and the Joshua Brown case

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Speaker 1: out in Texas. That guy Dad, he is green from

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Speaker 1: Louisiana is still on the run. Remember there was three

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Speaker 1: guys wanted. They're arrested too. I was just talking to

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Speaker 1: somebody that live out there and he was telling me

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Speaker 1: some interesting stuff about it. And he one thing he

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Speaker 1: was saying that the police had some of those guys. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is one of these theories out there. The police

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Speaker 1: so those guys to get at him. What happened was

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Speaker 1: they said that first they thought he wouldn't gonna be

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Speaker 1: a credible witness because he, you know, sale marijuana, his

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Speaker 1: track record and all that. They brung all that up

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Speaker 1: in court. But he's still testified on the behalf of

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Speaker 1: the guy that got killed. But then they said that

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Speaker 1: he turned out to be such a good witness and whatever.

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Speaker 1: You uh. The police didn't want him because of the

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Speaker 1: the lawsuit that was coming from the mama, so they

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Speaker 1: had to get rid of me. So, I don't you know,

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Speaker 1: this is just here say what he was telling me.

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Speaker 1: That is a lot going on out there. I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of unanswered questions even though it seemed

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Speaker 1: like maybe it was just a drug deal went bad,

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Speaker 1: but they're still it still smells to me, but I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't know. It's too early right now to

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Speaker 1: even try to speculate on whether the Dallas p D

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Speaker 1: had anything to do with josh A Bound's murder. If

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Speaker 1: it was just one thing. I did ask you, I said, well,

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Speaker 1: do you see all of these things on the news,

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Speaker 1: the three guys, this guy getting killed. Oh yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was on the news everywhere when it happened. So this

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Speaker 1: situation does exist. So we were sitting there like it's impossible.

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Speaker 1: Why why we ain't hearing about it? We ain't in Texas,

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Speaker 1: we don't get to Texas news. So it's definitely happening.

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Speaker 1: And those guys words shot and the whole nine is

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Speaker 1: for real. Well hopefully, um we we're gonna stay on

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Speaker 1: that story because nobody's talking about it right now, but

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Speaker 1: if we learned something to new about it, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: hear about it on the Gangster chronicles. Uh did you

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Speaker 1: hear about Badass from Long Beach who was briefly signed

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Speaker 1: the death row records during the nineties. He died in

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Speaker 1: police custody a few days ago in Riverside County. Wow,

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Speaker 1: nobody knows what else. He's only for three years old.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna says peace to you, my brother. You know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Man, you really didn't know each other.

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Speaker 1: Ranting to you, but we really didn't, you know, kicking

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Speaker 1: like that and none but rist in peace. Yeah, rest

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Speaker 1: in peace too, badass from Long Beach. Um. We'll find

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Speaker 1: out what happened to him in the next couple of

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Speaker 1: coming days. And the last thing I want to say

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Speaker 1: is Um, the East Coast Crips and the Florence Third

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Speaker 1: Teams had their third face to face meeting. I believe

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Speaker 1: it was either October thirty one or November one. I

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Speaker 1: was out of town, so I wasn't able to attend it.

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Speaker 1: But there is footage online if you go to Skip

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Speaker 1: Townsend's YouTube channel, he has about two minutes of footage.

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Speaker 1: For those of you who don't believe this is true

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Speaker 1: that have been questioning whether or not that the East

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Speaker 1: Coast and the Florences came together, they came together again

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Speaker 1: and there's actual video footage on YouTube that you can see.

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Speaker 1: You see a bunch of Mexicans, about a hundred of them, Cynthien.

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Speaker 1: That's the video I'm talking about Cynthia Senator Van And

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's crazy that we we put ourselves

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Speaker 1: down when you're doing good things like this. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of catches. Are they only doing this because

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Speaker 1: of Donald Trump? I wouldn't give an if if it

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Speaker 1: took Donald Trump to get these two neighborhoods together, then

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Speaker 1: fuck it. I give a high poet Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: putting them together definitely, but we need to get them

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Speaker 1: gains the Chronicles and everybody can hear this story. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe everybody needs to know what's going on. I'll reach

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Speaker 1: out to a little doc and see if we can

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Speaker 1: get a representative from Florence thirteen and perhaps come here

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Speaker 1: and just talk about this monumental truce between two gangs

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Speaker 1: that have been worn for twenty years. And lastly, we

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Speaker 1: gotta shout out Nori from the Drink Champs. Nori went on,

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Speaker 1: he went on the podcast called No Jumper and guess who.

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Speaker 1: He said it was the best podcast out right now,

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Speaker 1: that was crazy. He said, The Gangster Chronicles is the

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Speaker 1: best podcast out right. The way he explained each and

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Speaker 1: everybody roll and I was like, man, he compared us

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Speaker 1: to the TV show um Um, the one out of Baltimore,

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Speaker 1: but the Gangsters of the Police, Um the Wire. He said,

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Speaker 1: the Gangster Chronicles podcast is like the TV show The Wire.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but that's a hell of a compliment.

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Speaker 1: Damn show is. And and it had me choked up

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, I'm not into it. I don't look

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Speaker 1: at the and I'm bullshitt y'all not I don't look

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Speaker 1: at the comments. I don't look at none of these bodios.

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Speaker 1: I don't do none of it. I come in here

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Speaker 1: and after the show is over, I go home and

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting on another week. I don't fare attention to it.

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Speaker 1: So I got people coming to me, coming up to

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Speaker 1: me at the stores that to swap me, uh, pull

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Speaker 1: up on the side of me and take a double

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Speaker 1: take and say, oh you guys chronic. It is overwhelming

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Speaker 1: to me. I mean, I didn't went from here all

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Speaker 1: the way to hear where I'm at now and and

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Speaker 1: being recognized, Man, you helped me this, You helped me that,

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Speaker 1: you helped me through a hard time on this and

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Speaker 1: and we appreciate all y'all. We appreciate all y'all I

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Speaker 1: appreciate y'all from the bottom of my heart. Um, I

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Speaker 1: never thought I would be in a position where I'm

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Speaker 1: at now. He even offered us distribution in case we

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Speaker 1: needed it, that's how much he loved the show. But

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Speaker 1: I've known Nori man. I think i've know Norith about

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Speaker 1: twelve years now, and he's always been a good guy.

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Speaker 1: Whenever he comes to l A, when if he's not

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Speaker 1: too busy, he hits me up. I was surprised that

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Speaker 1: he shot. I didn't even know Nori. I haven't talked

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Speaker 1: to Nori since we've been doing this podcast, so I

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Speaker 1: was surprised that he even you know, because he got

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Speaker 1: his own podcast, the Drink Champs, and that is one

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Speaker 1: of the top podcasts and the music category. So I

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Speaker 1: know he's busy with doing his podcast, but he's listening

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Speaker 1: to us. I just want a guy. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was uh noring, somebody ship man, get my boys a

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Speaker 1: shout out. I'm like, man, it's just dude, for real.

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Speaker 1: He on there and and it was it was some

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Speaker 1: else or something else, all right, So we got a

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Speaker 1: special guest today. This guy is born in New York,

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Speaker 1: came out to l A, has a career and entertainment,

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Speaker 1: but he is tangentially linked to organized crime. He just

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Speaker 1: came out with a book called The Accidental Gangster Rii Spado.

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Speaker 1: But before we go into a conversation with Rii Spado,

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Speaker 1: let's play this clip. I equate a good gang shirt

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Speaker 1: up there with a doctor or a good lawyer. There's

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Speaker 1: good gangers, are bad answers. You know, it's like anything

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Speaker 1: else in life and any other segment of life. But

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Speaker 1: being a true gang shirt, most people would thinking maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm a little mentally, maybe press I am. But to

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Speaker 1: be a true gang shirt you have to be in

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Speaker 1: telling you you know, if you mentioned a few guys

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Speaker 1: that I knew, and what's separation those guys my last

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Speaker 1: Frank and Sello tell Michel Sunday Clinch, Jimmy Toschi, Jimmy Toschi.

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Speaker 1: Even though there was a pretty time he couldn't you know, right,

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Speaker 1: but they were still smarting. There was still on TV

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Speaker 1: right now, The Great Do Yes, it seems like they're

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Speaker 1: show kind of mirrors of life a whole look in

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Speaker 1: a way. Yes, because when I came down to the HollyHood,

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Speaker 1: I knew Dino Dealer right there, Roll sur being I

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Speaker 1: know if anybody knows who Dino Dealer Runt was. But

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Speaker 1: at that time, back in the day, he was the

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Speaker 1: biggest lender, brenda producer round and did King Kong across

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Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty forest three tons of movies. I

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Speaker 1: became close with them. He was he came from Italy

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Speaker 1: and they were involved with Carlo Ponti over there in

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Speaker 1: the film business, and he was very successful. And I

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Speaker 1: became friends. And the next day you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: problem there, a problem there. And then I went on.

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Speaker 1: I talked to people, they were reading the problems. Like

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Speaker 1: just sitting down with people, I could trib you my

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Speaker 1: experiences a salesman of someone he turned for understanding people

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Speaker 1: and being able to sit down and take care of

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Speaker 1: the problem. So you were what they were called, the fixer.

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Speaker 1: I was knownally the Hollywood fixer. How much show you

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Speaker 1: think they broke month? I only think maybe somebody saw

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Speaker 1: off picked up something and the writers wants the writer

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Speaker 1: to get something. He changed it all for totally. He

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Speaker 1: had a writer and wanted the doors for TV pilot

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Speaker 1: about me. I mean I read that and you know

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Speaker 1: who the hell he was talking about. There was no

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Speaker 1: of someone's at all. I think the writer probably agreement

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Speaker 1: and the reality was open to even think they would

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Speaker 1: agree the breaking. But there's a whole another situation, and

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Speaker 1: we could talk three years of out writers and how

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Speaker 1: but everything's too rich for it. Seems like all my life,

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Speaker 1: people always part of me as a gangster. But for

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Speaker 1: many years I was a successful a churchman and the

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Speaker 1: leading agent for the potential in Church company. And then

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Speaker 1: I had my own agency where I serviced Automo bill

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Speaker 1: dealers with a training for a Brahm and where I

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Speaker 1: saw the credit life and accident and health insurch That

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Speaker 1: became my first indictment. A guy that I took that

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Speaker 1: never made more than thirty tho dollars a year, I

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Speaker 1: brought him in a gentleman. I can't call him a gentleman,

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Speaker 1: but he was making over a hundred grand year with me. Uh,

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Speaker 1: my company was growing very quickly. I was going very well,

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Speaker 1: and he became very jealous. He found out about a

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Speaker 1: deal that I had with the in Church company where

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Speaker 1: I was allowed to use the premium to grow my business.

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Speaker 1: And then he tried to say that you know that

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Speaker 1: I was friends with Sonny Francais Maya Lansky and others,

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Speaker 1: which showed he was trying to get me into tape conversations. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: that became my first indictment, and I was facing fifty

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Speaker 1: five years in prison, and it was my first case.

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Speaker 1: I ended up getting five years probation. But once I

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Speaker 1: had that fewn he was like, you know, and I

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Speaker 1: became who I was. I left there, I went to

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, and I became very well known in San

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Speaker 1: Francisco in a very short period of time. I already

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Speaker 1: known Sonny Franchise, all right, I knew my Orlanski, and

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Speaker 1: through life I got the net other well known gangsters.

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Speaker 1: That's all in my book. Carlo Marcello Russell Buffalino's who

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Speaker 1: Joe Pesci plays in a new film The Irishman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I had yeah, hell of a life. Do you

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Speaker 1: have some feelings here you? For example, well, Michael Harris, yeah, Harrio?

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Speaker 1: How long that him was? I don't know if even

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Speaker 1: the guy know who Danny Sinton was, but then he

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Speaker 1: was the first guy that produced Bob Marley. Uh. Danny

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Speaker 1: was big in the music business. And when Danny was

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Speaker 1: in Los Angeles, I was a guy who took care

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Speaker 1: of Danny and he probably Yeah. When he was in

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Speaker 1: New York, it was joe Piney and when he was

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Speaker 1: in London, it was my snake, Joey Pile. Danny knew

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Speaker 1: how to work the system really good and he was

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Speaker 1: always protected. But he came here, and before he came here,

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Speaker 1: he stopped in New York. He was with White Cleft,

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Speaker 1: and through White Cleft he met Asian Jack and they

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Speaker 1: came out here with and wanted me to handle problem

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Speaker 1: was shog Knight. Lydia was so underver the little issue

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Speaker 1: is wanted me to talked to Show and uh I

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Speaker 1: met Lydia Asian Jack. Asian Jack ended up thinking on

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Speaker 1: my couch for a year, so I found out who

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Speaker 1: he really was. But they went back and forth and

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Speaker 1: every time that he was here, she got Michael long

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Speaker 1: At help. But there was not a need for me

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Speaker 1: at that situation be to sit down with Show, because

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Speaker 1: I really didn't know who was right who is wrong

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Speaker 1: in the situation, and when Michael being in prison and

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Speaker 1: his wife an thanks for him, it was not a

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Speaker 1: proper situation for me to get involved in. Patian Jack.

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Speaker 1: He's a good talker's a good looking boy. He was fast,

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Speaker 1: fast with a woman. We're a hustler. He he was

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Speaker 1: getting money from White Club, John and Jerry wonder Urb

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Speaker 1: and all these people. It's up on my couch and

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Speaker 1: grow my son's cart. For a year. Never offered to

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Speaker 1: put up a five cents. And then I found out

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Speaker 1: the truth about Asian. What happened. What he wanted. There's

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Speaker 1: something in the music business. He wanted me to be involved,

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Speaker 1: and i'mby donst to me. He was going around Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles stone everybody. He was with me, so that was

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Speaker 1: sort of like a guarantee on him. When he was

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Speaker 1: mentioning mining, white Cliffe and I became front. White Cloth

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00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: called me and it was round Christmas time and he

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00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 1: was the friends when Naomi Campbell and they only was

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Speaker 1: being stalked by this guy out Long Island. I think

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Speaker 1: this was somewhere that in nineties. Boy called Naomi boy

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Speaker 1: I was going. She happened to be having a Christmas party.

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Speaker 1: Bro I went there. She had valet party and all

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Speaker 1: that they're told the guys leave my car air. I

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Speaker 1: went in and they only brought me into her office.

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Speaker 1: We talked. She gave me the information that I needed.

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Speaker 1: I should think g go, she should have stay at

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Speaker 1: the party. You know a lot of people. I shouldn't

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Speaker 1: really have to run any ship, I shaid, I just

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Speaker 1: walked through and say, oh so, I walked through the

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Speaker 1: room where the party was and shut aloud to a

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Speaker 1: few people. A few late days later, I'm sitting in

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Speaker 1: my share at home, Jack sitting on his couch. I

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Speaker 1: lived over on his wall dry every the time. I

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Speaker 1: found the guys that dressing Long Island, and they went

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Speaker 1: to his home and the long Guyland, and when they

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Speaker 1: got there, if I'm on the telephone, and I told

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Speaker 1: him exactly that I did not want him to even

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Speaker 1: think about the only Campbell. He wasn't the emailer, he

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Speaker 1: wasn't the color. He wasn't to look at it. He's

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Speaker 1: not the telephone. I should know. I should see those

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Speaker 1: fool guys in front of you right now, he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: should there being very nice right now, I should. If

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Speaker 1: you ever see them again, that would be the last

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Speaker 1: face that you're everybody see. Jay gets up and go

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Speaker 1: to my dining room table because Naomi, he says he

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Speaker 1: took care of it. He was just trying to he

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Speaker 1: was from what I want to find out. Everybody wanted

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Speaker 1: to say that what's up. Jack took credit for killings

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Speaker 1: that other people did well. So pretty much what you've

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Speaker 1: seen Jack, That's what I'm saying, not in my book.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, he was a fast doctor, good looking guy,

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Speaker 1: and he hustled. Everybody never worked with David. I made

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Speaker 1: a legitimate dollar. Not that I'm all that pole here

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Speaker 1: that thou But if we make money together or I'm

375
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Speaker 1: taking care of you, you made some money, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: come over and say, here, do the right thing. But

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Speaker 1: I had an overstock of what they called me, all

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Speaker 1: the DVDs, the CDs from Universal. So my mate Joey Poylo,

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Speaker 1: the bossa London At, a guy named Ron Winters. Ryan

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00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: was big into music business and Ryan with a Canivan,

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Speaker 1: son of a bitch. He was good at He was

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Speaker 1: a good guy. He said he wanted to buy him

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Speaker 1: when it came to a price. And then he told

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Speaker 1: me he's wired the money to me. I give him

385
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Speaker 1: my banking and I'd be their way on my bank.

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Speaker 1: On my bank one called Ron. He'd actually give me

387
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: a number that he transferred. Nobody can find a number

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00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: that he come up. While I had to go through

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00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 1: the Bank of Landa for one back to another bank

390
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: by trying he gets there, and then I founally found

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Speaker 1: out he was bullshitting, and then through somebody in the

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Speaker 1: movie industry, because when Ron would come to town, he

393
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: would never tell anybody where he was staying, and he

394
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 1: never checked in on your real name, so you could

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Speaker 1: find a guy. My guy said he had a meeting

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Speaker 1: with this guy, rond Winters at the Beverly Wilsters and

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Speaker 1: what I shouldn't want to go water? And I went,

398
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Speaker 1: and I was at the bar, and he's promised that

399
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: he would come downars and get me. I was literally

400
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 1: gonna hang this fucking guy out the window. Unbeknown to me,

401
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: shouldn't nice. They're having a meeting with him. The other

402
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: guy in the movie industry tells Shug about me that

403
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: I'm waiting down there at the park. The Shug came

404
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: down and that's how we met, and he asked me

405
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Speaker 1: not to do anything. He says, we'll make money. Are

406
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Speaker 1: you sure you won't make money somewhere though? He said,

407
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: But I got under going with the guy. I don't

408
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,399
Speaker 1: want to mess that up, he said, please. I said, okay, no,

409
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: And then it came and I started going to Shug's

410
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: office when he was over here on Busher and Sampa's

411
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 1: that day. And we always show. I always saw it

412
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: the four Sea Dolls every night. He likes to be

413
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: there rightfully every night as he was. And then it

414
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: came down to Ron, which has happened to be his

415
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: distributor in anyland. But Ron was distributing death roll all

416
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: over Europe mhm, and he wasn't paying shure. So show

417
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: came to me, my mace. We got the first million.

418
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Speaker 1: Like when we got the first million, idea was that

419
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: I would do a September cent, but we wanted to

420
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: handle it every month. Whatever was your guy. I think

421
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: he got violated. He was in prison. I got the

422
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: million dollars. It was a way till he was account

423
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: I can't remember. A girl and a guy and should

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00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: called his lawyer from prison and had his lawyer transferred

425
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: ten dollars in my out I mean underground like that.

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00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: It was there in the next day. Show was always

427
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: a gentleman, and I gotta say it always did the

428
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: right thing. Does the Marsta deal with the Crypts of Blues?

429
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: And yes I did. You got a lot of respect

430
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 1: from them, and they got every respect you're gonna remember

431
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: something about the time, and particularly us guys from New York.

432
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: I never knew about fucking prejudicism racial and you know,

433
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: I never knew about this ship that's part of in

434
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: New York. I mean, you know, we have black guy

435
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: who would just but what I was friends with him,

436
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: all right, We never had none of that stuff. What

437
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: would be the biggest advice you would give to leaders

438
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: and crips of blues if you could teach your menut

439
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: in a better way of life, teach your man with it.

440
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: And I know for a fact I had a comment Mike,

441
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: you try to tell his boy what to do with

442
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: the money, how to save it, how to invest it,

443
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: because living this kind of life, you're eventually gonna die

444
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: and over to jail. And if you're fortunate to make

445
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: it through both of those, do you have any money

446
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: or Svike? Alrighty? That was Ori Spado and we got

447
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: him live in the studio. So Ari, The first thing

448
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: I want to ask you, what what compelled you to

449
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: want to write a book about all these crazy experiences

450
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: that you've had in your life. I ain't been an

451
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: avid reader all my life, Even to this day, I

452
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: read every night before I go to bed, and while

453
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: I was in prison, I was reading. I read over

454
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 1: three hundred books in prison, and it was just something

455
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: that in my head and which I'm normally good at

456
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: formulate things in my mind, whether it's going to be

457
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: a robbery or a takedown or whatever I want to do.

458
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 1: But this became an idea. And when I would up

459
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: the yard, I came up with the name the Accidental Gangster.

460
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: That's a great title. And not thinking that I'm ever

461
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: going to write a book, I mean, I just never

462
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: thought of it. But when I got out of prison,

463
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: there were a lot of guys who came to me

464
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: in the entertainment, but I wanted to do reality show

465
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: with me knowing this town is I know what most

466
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: people are bullshitter And my lawyer is a gentleman named

467
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: George Hams, one of the most prestigious entertainment law firms.

468
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: George and I we always get together once a month

469
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: or whatever, the Four Seasons or the Peninsula or someplay.

470
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,240
Speaker 1: And I'm telling George about it, and George looks at me.

471
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: He said, already I know your story. He says, write

472
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: a book. Find a writer to help you, he says,

473
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: And we'll get a movie, though, is it hard for

474
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: you to find some? So now I know a lot

475
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: of scriptwriters being here in Hollywood, I don't know any

476
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: book writers. As a difference right between writing a book

477
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: and writing a script totally totally different, and one writer

478
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: at another don't wrote book. I just said down one

479
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: day because here I went, I was still on paper.

480
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to go to certain places and all

481
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: this here and I wasn't looking going to get violator

482
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: for some stupid ship. So I said it down in

483
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: my computer and I started writing. I think maybe I

484
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: was about a third of the way into the book,

485
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: and I just kept doing it. Talking to my cousin

486
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: back e and he said, there's somebody here wants to

487
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: say hello to you. Guy. His name was Tom Burt Tom,

488
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: and I haven't seen him since high school and we're

489
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: bringing each other today. And he said, already you know

490
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: Dennis Griffin, He said, do you remember him? I said yeah.

491
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: He said, he's a writer. He's living in a lot

492
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: his vedeas he's writing a lot of gangster books. I

493
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: should get the hell lot here through Dennis. We have

494
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: a Wild Blue Press, which is a publishing company. They

495
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: write true crime and they do quite a bit of it,

496
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: and they do a good job. But you didn't. You

497
00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: didn't spend time with Dennis, so he didn't. He did

498
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: personally know your story. Last time you've seen him was

499
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 1: in the military. And the funny thing was, Dennis was

500
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: a cop in upstate New York, Monroe County or some

501
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: place I can't remember. I didn't see Dunnis again until

502
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: two months ago. My granddaughter graduated and I was back

503
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: in New York and Dunnis that i't met again. So

504
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: your cousin told Dennis, I got this incredible story that

505
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: you probably want to write. Google Dennis and he had

506
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: his email on this thing. He emailed him and he

507
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: called me. First two people ever read the manuscript happened

508
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: to be Nick Pileggie, who wrote Good Fellows, Casino American

509
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: Gangster So Suge Knight and death Row Records in your

510
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: book at all? Do you cover that? Do you talk

511
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: about that in your book? Yes? I do now, James,

512
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 1: you guys never met before. Hum never met. He was

513
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: on I guess the same side of business, but he

514
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: was going a little further and deeper than where we

515
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: was going out to get the money. As you heard

516
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: him say, you wouldn't collect did a million dollars for

517
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: it in England? Right there there was my people in London.

518
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: How do you you come up with the name accidental gangster? Well,

519
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: as I walked the yard, a lampol i came up

520
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: because here I was a Slatto boy in state in

521
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: New York, and I'm thinking about all the guys that

522
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: I met. You know, you watched and know all these

523
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: gangster and stuff, and you see all these people and

524
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: I actually met them. I had their phone number at

525
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: one time. I was able to call them. These are

526
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: bosters throughout the country and how's this something like that?

527
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: And most of the books you read is about the guy.

528
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: He was born in benson her in Brooklyn, and his

529
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: father was in it, his uncles were in it, so

530
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: he became in it. It was quite a process. So

531
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: it took a lot out of me. I mean just

532
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: I mean being against you know, when you were against

533
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: gainst a boy nature not about choice. You you wasn't

534
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: taught how to be against. You wasn't shown this is

535
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 1: the way a gangster should be. You knew exactly what

536
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: a gangst there was and how you live. So there's

537
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: nothing accidental about you? You see what I'm saying. Well,

538
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: that's why I leave it up to the readers read

539
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: my book, The Accidental Gang. They can make the decision.

540
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: Was it accidental or accidentally on purpose? I said, by nature,

541
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: not by choice. That's what I wouldn't name it, because

542
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't forced into it. I actually walked

543
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: into this part of life and I became what I've

544
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: seen and what I felt in my heart. This is

545
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: what I want to do. That's what you wanted if

546
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: you walk into it open arms. Did nobody push you

547
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: into being who you are? Nobody pushed me, right, and

548
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 1: I guess there never a lot of people to push

549
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: me in anything exactly. Well, in the audio clip that

550
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: we just heard, basically you were a Hollywood fixer and

551
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: I was as curious. Um in your book, do you

552
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: talk about the specific entertainers that you helped and can

553
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: you give us maybe a little snippet of a of

554
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: a person that you know needed to call on your services.

555
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,719
Speaker 1: Some of my friends were, and you know, I had

556
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: to read my book to find out, but I do.

557
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra, I know Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr. I

558
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: knew him all and uh and Cheryl others and through

559
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: Dina de Laurentis, Uh, Ralph Serpi, Peter Falk, Colombo, Colombo.

560
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 1: But I met him when he was doing the Brick

561
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: Show in Boston. Now, for the people who don't know

562
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: who Dino de Laurentis is, this is a guy that

563
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: was associated with so many great movies during the nineteen seventies. Um.

564
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: He did the Velachi Papers, which is the first mafia

565
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: guy to ever become a snitch. Um. During the nineteen sixties,

566
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: he also did the movie Serproco, which was the New

567
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: York p D officer that decided he wanted to turn

568
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: in all his corrupt all the corrupt officers that were

569
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: working in NYPD, and they end up trying to kill him. Uh.

570
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: And he did the movie about that, Serproco. He also

571
00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: did a death Wish with John James Bronson h nine

572
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: teen seventy three. Um, So this is a guy I'm sorry,

573
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: Charles Bronson. This is a guy who he was a

574
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: heavyweight during the seventies. He was he was like the

575
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 1: guy could pull money from this track. So how did

576
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: you meet How did you meet him? Because Dino de

577
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: Laurentis that that guy has a story to tell in

578
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: terms of all the films that he made and and

579
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: he did. He did some gangster movies too, did a

580
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: lot of gangster movies. Uh, he left all right, Oh,

581
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch I left out. Um. He also

582
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:32,959
Speaker 1: did Conan the Barbarian Street with Anthony right here. Yeah,

583
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: that's that's in the eighties, near the end of his career. No,

584
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: Conan the Barbarian. Yeah, that's near the end there. We

585
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: say that in the beginning they were doing a film

586
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: in New York. There was the film like Matt yeah fourth,

587
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 1: I think I got it right, You're right street with

588
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: Anthony one right, Uh, And you know they went in

589
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: this city this went before how it would really be

590
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: come Hollywood, Will you read that film? And they got

591
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: other pre myths to uh film from the city, and

592
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: they weren't herd setting things up when some guys went

593
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: towards that you can't film her because they didn't have

594
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: the proper permission, which was from the boys. And then

595
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: through my friend Frank Russell, they went they am and

596
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: that's how we got involved and uh became friends after

597
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: that there. So back then, let's say you had to

598
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 1: have your hand in the majority of a lot of

599
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: things that was going on in the city. So with

600
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: nobody gonna eat unless you ate. So this is what

601
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: this is gonna be, and there's no compromise. This is

602
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: what it is if not get out of you understandable,

603
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: every got he's got to be shown a little bit

604
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 1: of lover exactly. And see back in the days, that's

605
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,800
Speaker 1: a good thing because you didn't have one person sitting

606
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: on the block feeling his belly and and looking at

607
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: every looking down at everybody else. Y'all made sure that

608
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: everybody got something out to deal, whether it was irrationally

609
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: correct there and they changed somewhere and exactly when or

610
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 1: how you know? I have a saying jails are full

611
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: of people because they're greedy or jealous. You've been in prison,

612
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: all right. Most of the people that were greedy or

613
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: jealous got jealous, he killed somebody, whatever occasion. But greed

614
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: is the main factor. And the bosses keeping all the money.

615
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: Other guys are not making money, and what happened. They

616
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: try to say that they don't want nobody deal drugs there,

617
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: so saying they don't like any of the guys trafficking

618
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: narcotics because it brings on unnecessary law enforcement attention. But

619
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 1: now I want that money. At the time, I wasn't

620
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: physically there, but you know, you air of a gentleman,

621
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: probably one of the most respective guys around, Carlo Gambi.

622
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: Do you never saw that guy going to president. You

623
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: never saw the cameras on him all the time. Quiet guy.

624
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: But he made a promise that the that these guys

625
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 1: would not deal drug. I heard that. I can't totest

626
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: the word. I wasn't there. But at the same time,

627
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: there's an expectation for all these captains to produce a

628
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: certain amount of money every month. Yeah, but you know

629
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,720
Speaker 1: there's so many other ways shooting, construction business, the union,

630
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 1: the colding district. Uh, there's so many other ways to

631
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: making money. Prostitution, gambling, which is the Vegas and that

632
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: was a normal but you know, when the boss had

633
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: taken all the money and you got all the captives

634
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: and the other people, they want their podcasts full too,

635
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: and so they people started yelling drug and what's that produced?

636
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: Performance to to to know that and then to know

637
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,359
Speaker 1: that the that the big man is eating and really

638
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: don't want to feed me in the right way, especially

639
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: the things that I do. What what I bring to

640
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: the table, it's worth more than anything, so I should

641
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: be taken care of. Absolutely. So at what point do

642
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: you feel like, Okay, I'm not getting taken care of? Uh?

643
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: Do that put you in a position where you can

644
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: walk away and do your own thing or you actually

645
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: stuck in a situation. I think you're stuck there, and

646
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: you're stuck in a situation and now you've got to

647
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 1: fend for yourself. I can get into a deep conversation

648
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: with you on this ere Uh you know, we boy

649
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: could discuss our personal thoughts. Yeah, we do that about

650
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: the life, but we could do that some other time. Yeah, yeah,

651
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 1: we can. What what I'm what I'm trying to say is,

652
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: without making it sound like a interview, my whole thing is,

653
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, we all make choices. We all have choices,

654
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: and and if this is what I choose to do,

655
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it while I'm getting it, and I'm

656
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: gonna make sure I get it. Yeah, but at the

657
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: same time trying to get it, you can lose, you

658
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, putting your hands in somebody else's

659
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: pocket without differmission, you got to deal with the consequences.

660
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 1: So the way you live, the way y'all live your

661
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: life a posted the way we live our life is

662
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: totally different. Y'all have certain rules that y'all go by,

663
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: and our rules don't apply to the way y'all y'all

664
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: put y'all rules. Now, you know what I'm saying. So

665
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: it was basically the same thing, but with different with

666
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: a different understanding, you know what I'm saying. So it's

667
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: pretty easier for us to play those trick games. It's

668
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: pretty hard if you get caught with your hand in

669
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: the cookie jar. The consequences is deep, but there are

670
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: a couple of exceptions though. Michael Franz Easy, Sonny's son,

671
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,439
Speaker 1: actually walked away from the life, and so did John

672
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: Gotti Jr. Kind of walked away from the life with

673
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: without anything happening to them. Would you disagree? And those

674
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 1: are two guys that were pretty deep into it, John

675
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 1: Gotti Jr. Being in the Gambino crime family and Sonny

676
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: France sees um Michael friends Easy being one of the

677
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: top one of the top earners during the seventies. You

678
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: read that book, you're gonna learn a lot about Michael

679
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: franchise and okay. Uh, Michael is a very intelligent guy.

680
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: There's no question about that. There. Uh, you made a

681
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: lot of money. He is Sonny steps right. But Sonny

682
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: did adopt him legally. When Sonny at his wife Tina,

683
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: her name was Christina, a couple of my uncle. Michael

684
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: was a year and a half, two years old at

685
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: that time when she married Sonny. Uh. Sonny's other son

686
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: actually got two families. He got Carmen, Rosemary, and Lorraine

687
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: from his first marriage. They I want to say my age,

688
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: but I think they're all older than I am, and

689
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: they're all regular citizens, good people. And then when he

690
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 1: married Christine and Michael was step son, he had then

691
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: his son Johnny, and he had a daughter Tina, and

692
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: the youngest daughter, Gia. And I knew all these kids

693
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: when they were yi. Gia ended up dying from an

694
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: overdose at a hotel and Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I think

695
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: it was Johnny became an informant on our case against

696
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: his father, against me and everybody else. Johnny was the

697
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,839
Speaker 1: son against his own father. Johnny was a spitting him

698
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: the just sunny. Johnny was a drug addict. It's surprising.

699
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 1: I just got word two days ago that he's trying

700
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: to get a movie made and the gentleman's named that

701
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier who went reduced being the Norman, Supposedly

702
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 1: he's trying to do it. I know if it's ever happened,

703
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: but the would you would you agree though, that Michael

704
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 1: and John Jr. Were able to walk away from that

705
00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: life though, which is kind of an exception to the rule,

706
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: because who their fathers was. Well, maybe that has something

707
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: to do with it, because they were both the sons

708
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: of high ranking Michael walked away and it was an

709
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 1: awful long time ago, walked away with a lot of money.

710
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: And I wasn't in the room. It's only what I

711
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: hear of, but he was. I don't want to say

712
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: something that might be wrong, but you know a lot

713
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: of people were paid off from heavy money. Well, you know,

714
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: the money is the name of the game today, all

715
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: right where it was before where before you got your button,

716
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: before you gotten uh, you had to do this year,

717
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: you had to go and do work. Okay, we no longer.

718
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 1: How much money can you bring it? Yeah? Well, you know,

719
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: Michael Francis, he said in a recent interview that he's

720
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: got a book out and He does still get nervous

721
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 1: sometimes because when he goes to book signings, you never

722
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: know who's gonna be there, and you never know if

723
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: it's somebody that's still from the life that say, hey,

724
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm uh, that's still hating on him. But the question

725
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: is it still like that today? Is the market is

726
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,479
Speaker 1: still active as like it was back then? They're still

727
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: things changed. A lot of the Italians from Sicily and

728
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: other uh from Italy are running some of the families

729
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 1: in New York today. Uh, they're keeping it low key.

730
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: Are they as powerful as they work? No way? No way.

731
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 1: The FBI with the Rico whack. Just now that they're there,

732
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:59,479
Speaker 1: you should be an FBI unit for every family, every

733
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: family constantly, twenty four hours of the day. It's no

734
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: longer the kids. They get about two two two squads

735
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: down for the whole five family they are. Plus you

736
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: got the family in Jersey and Pennsylvania. Is there one upstate?

737
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: Is there an upstate family Buffalo? Yeah, So it's not

738
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: like it used to be in terms of the FBI

739
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: monitoring them, you know, But then again, in the FBI,

740
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: I don't have to leave the officer they get today.

741
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 1: It's easy all right. So, man, there's so many things

742
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 1: that I wanted to have a conversation with you about.

743
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: Maybe we can start off with Haitian Jack, like you

744
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: actually socialized and kicked it and hung out with Haitian Jack. Yes,

745
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: they did it, unfortunately, and I don't know if you

746
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 1: knew at the time, but he's the primary person behind

747
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: tupocket and shot the first time in four I believe

748
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: in New York where he survived and actually on the

749
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: rape of that girl went away correct with Haitian Jack.

750
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: There was another boy there who proffered against me. Jamaican

751
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 1: boy named Ricky was there, and it is believed that

752
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: Park never even raped this girl. It was those other guys. Yeah,

753
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: but they were parks friends, so Park had the name.

754
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 1: So Park, you're getting charged and that's that's why he

755
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: got shot by them because he remember he went on

756
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: TV and said, if you guys are gonna arrest me,

757
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: then you gotta arrest everybody that was there. And then

758
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: that's when um, Haitian Jack and Jimmy Henchman said, man,

759
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: we gotta shoot this dude. But you actually knew him

760
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: when he came to Los Angeles. By this time, you

761
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: you living in l A. I'm living in Los Angeles

762
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 1: and Danny shows up at my door from New York

763
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: because he stopped in New York from London before he

764
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: came in. Now you talked about Danny Simms. Yeah, okay,

765
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: wait before we're talking about be bothered about Haitian Jack.

766
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: Danny Simms is the dude that basically discovered Bob Marley

767
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: and what nineteen sixties, seven sixty eight? Um, and you

768
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: knew him? Okay, so you met Haitian Jack. Dude, dude,

769
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: Annie Sims? Talk about how did you meet Danny Simpson? First?

770
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: I actually met Danny Sims through my friend Joey Pile

771
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: out of London. Joey Poe was the boss over there.

772
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: Began with Ronnie Reggie Cray. Joey was a gentleman and

773
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 1: I thought like we'd become him and Danny had the

774
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: returner to Mac Morrison. I got a number here. Uh,

775
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 1: what's his first name? Morrison? What does his first name?

776
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: I'll look it up, Mark Morrison. I just talked to

777
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: him the other day and I forgot his name. Uh.

778
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: And Mark was a hotta back a no day and

779
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: he had they had a deal with Warner Brothers and

780
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: they wanted me to take care of him while he came.

781
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: He was here in Los Angeles, h make sure we

782
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: got to the studios, make sure he did what he

783
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: strove for. So my son and I went over there

784
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: and we took care of Mark while I was here,

785
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: and Joy and I became very close through the years,

786
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: and then Danny was moving back to Los Angeles. I

787
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 1: met Danny. Goddamnit, I've known Danny for so long I forget.

788
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: So did you know Danny before he hooked up with

789
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: Bob Marley? No, I didn't know him that, okay, because

790
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 1: that was around sixty eight, So you met him after

791
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: sixty eight. I did the World of Red Gay featuring

792
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: Bob Marley exhibit at the Queen Mary, and I gotta

793
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I didn't even know who to

794
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: how Bob Marley was until Danny introduced me to Roger

795
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: Steffen in Silver Lake, who has got a great collection

796
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 1: in his home of Bob Marley. My Morbilia, which we

797
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: got HIRER. Curator, cost over half a million dollar just

798
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: to get it up and put it for people to

799
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: come to you with the Queen Mary. But Danny, Danny

800
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: was a smart guy, so was Danny was Haitian. Jack

801
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: trying to get into the music business through Danny Sims

802
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: because he knew Danny Simms. Well, Danny wanted to do

803
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 1: something White Cliff he brought I know if Jack was

804
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: in trouble or something. But Jack was going back, didn't

805
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,280
Speaker 1: want to go back to New York. And I didn't

806
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 1: know that Jack was a snitch at that time. Krupac

807
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: was the first one I think that came out with it,

808
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: and nobody would really believe in two back he came

809
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: out with it a song, correct. I believe he did

810
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: say something about him and I answered, you Jack to

811
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people sleeping out of my car. And

812
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: but he's on the phone every day talking to people,

813
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: and people are sending their money, not working, and he's

814
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: going out and buy nice coldest and that. And but

815
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,439
Speaker 1: then eventually two other people out of Brooklyn and back

816
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: in New York. Uh, they called me Jack were not

817
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: who he proclaimed. He was taking credit with somebody else.

818
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: Because when you tell me do you kill people and

819
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: how many people you killed? Then I know you killed nobody. Jack,

820
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: all right, all right, why would you tell me? All right,

821
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 1: that's the dumbest thing. But he did it and people

822
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: became fearful of him from it, and the guys on

823
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: a say Angels were heads up and a little bit quicker.

824
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: I guess that the guy's back East. And from my understanding,

825
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 1: Jack had been a snitch for a long time working

826
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: for the FBI where he got deporting Republic. He got

827
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: deported and he isn't the Dominican Republic. That song that

828
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: you were talking about um is called against all Odds

829
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: a Boy Tupac and the line is a real live

830
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: tale about a snitch name Haitian Jack, you know. And

831
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: I didn't know he was a snitch. And then after

832
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: they finally got rid of him, everything, all the guys

833
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: were named big guy went in the box. He was

834
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: in the music business. I can't forget. I'm forgive me

835
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: for with names. But through my life we're not talking

836
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: about no, not Sug, but a lot of other people.

837
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: I never introduced the shark. I know. We we had

838
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: a media one day at the fourth season. That's when

839
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: I first met Mike Concepts you and uh really like

840
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: like a real gentleman guy. But everybody called me afterwards,

841
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: why didn't I tell them Jack was just night? I

842
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 1: should because they didn't know to who years was that

843
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: when he came to Los Angeles and was, uh, I

844
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 1: guess leaping on your couch for for a while. Had

845
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: to be two thousand, maybe somewhere around there. He was

846
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 1: sleeping on my couch for a year. Then after a

847
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: year he got in an apartment upstairs in the same building.

848
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: I don't know who gave him the money, acon somebody

849
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: getting the money, and he got an apartment upstairs. And

850
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: then he rapped some Mexicans and he got a score

851
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: on I don't know how many pounds it was. It

852
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 1: was a big score, and he brought it the Ohio

853
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: I know, the guy who sold the form in a while,

854
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: and Jack came back with all the cash. And I

855
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: lived on swall over here. Actually sure used to be

856
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: on Swallow all the time too, and walk away from me,

857
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: you remember, and my patio door. It was a whole

858
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: lot of my apartment, which I always keep him walking

859
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: because I smoked. And Jack came back from Ohio and

860
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: let me Ricky. And Ricky said, you're gonna go take

861
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: care of the old man. He said, fuck no, I'm

862
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: not going to give him a nickel. I heard that,

863
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 1: and Ricky came around and says, Rick, I already heard it,

864
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: and then I called Jack. I said, you get upstairs,

865
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: put my son's key under the fucking door. You're not

866
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 1: to dry that car, I said. And I want you

867
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: out of this fucking building by tomorrow. I should remember something.

868
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: You're not a gangster, I am. You told him that, Yeah,

869
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: I said, I want you out next morning. He had

870
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: you all he moved out. That's when he moved in

871
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: the building in Century City. So you gave him a pass.

872
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 1: I would have did someth choying for even saying something

873
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, after you're taking care of him,

874
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: take care of him. He's a no good motherfucker. And

875
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 1: I don't care if that's on the air. I don't

876
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 1: see it too. He's a no good motherfucker. I mean,

877
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: but I mean just living that life. Man, how do

878
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: you feel now that that you're not really you're not

879
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 1: active as you were, but you still consider the gamester,

880
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,560
Speaker 1: How do you feel by just just living a normal life,

881
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: just comfortable, just you know, I'm gonna be seventy five

882
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: years old, but in my mind, I think I'm still

883
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: twenty one. I think we're all gonna be like that

884
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: there no matter who we are. Okay, we all think

885
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: we're young. And do I miss that fast cash? Yeah?

886
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: And you know I don't have the availability of things,

887
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 1: thank god. I mean I have money every month. I'm

888
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 1: gonna pay my rampaying my bills, and uh, I don't

889
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: have the extra money to be going out and spending

890
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars a night. That's the four season and

891
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,839
Speaker 1: the peninsula or something. You know, those are the days.

892
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: But back in the day I had guys around. I

893
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: need a fifty grant. I have bookies around. I don't

894
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: even know who's a bookie anymore. Is there anything you

895
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: would change if you can go back, if you can

896
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: go back in time, is there anything that you would change? Yes,

897
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: I would rather been born in the twenties, all right,

898
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: and being really active in the thirties. Okay, that was

899
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: my time. You was ahead of your time. I was

900
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 1: too late. Well, you would have been coming up in

901
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: the bootleg era then that's right. That was the time

902
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: to becoming become involved. That's the day. Story were the

903
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: days alcohol was illegal throughout the whole third I believe.

904
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: So you were born with like in the mid forties

905
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: after World War two, after World War tours. Born nineteen Yeah,

906
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: but you see, if I wanted to go back, I

907
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: go back to before I was born nineteen forty four. Yeah,

908
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: my mom was just turned seventy five. Um, on the

909
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: seventh of this month. I was just at the funeral,

910
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 1: I meany, Yeah, she rested in peace. Now one year?

911
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: Right when one year Thanksgiving to be the one should

912
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 1: be one year of her death? Rest in peace of

913
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: Mahalia Thanksgiving. So your mom was born in what year?

914
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: Forty four? You were born? My father was born in

915
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:21,359
Speaker 1: forty My mom and dad were both born in forty Well,

916
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: my father passed in fifteen, two thousand and fifteen, and

917
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: my mom is about to be eighty. And uh, mother

918
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: was born the way in November? Was she born? She

919
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: was born in November. She past Thanksgiving terrible time. But

920
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: when she was a Sangitarian, Yeah, yeah, she was crazy.

921
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 1: Do you born in November December? Yeah? Well? Um, and

922
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: let's talk about this indictment because there's so many things.

923
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: I want to make sure we talked about this because

924
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: in two thousand eight you was indicted in that whole

925
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: um what was that the Colombo the Colombo family indictment? Right,

926
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,839
Speaker 1: So I read through the superseding indictment. There's all these

927
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: allegations of this guy killed this dude, this dude killed

928
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: that dude. But then I'm looking, Okay, I want to

929
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: know what or Spado did. And it doesn't say you

930
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,839
Speaker 1: were involving any of these things that these other um

931
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: Colombo members were doing. Correct, So what exactly why were

932
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 1: you indicted then? In nineteen nineties seven, and that FBI

933
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: Asian happened to be shame that BI agent that got

934
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 1: Wedey Bulger John Connolly, Oh, oh, you're talking about the

935
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 1: one one out here in Los Angele, which was like

936
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: a gift to him. Anyway, he was on the elite.

937
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:43,359
Speaker 1: A BI organized prank days for us. They approachriated, try

938
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,239
Speaker 1: to get me to become an informant. I refused, but

939
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: I grabbed them for money the game of fucking tape

940
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 1: one day open. I got five thousand dollars for the

941
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: old first show. Honest, your god, he and my fucking

942
00:54:56,560 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 1: live everyone one day said, because then I got an attorney,

943
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: I said, not gonna have for him. Sure, he said,

944
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: you got anything in our will turn himself in. But

945
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,759
Speaker 1: he said, I will see today you are chained shackled

946
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: put on con there and brought the Brooklyn over ninety

947
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: seven in two thousand and eight. He made that a

948
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: reality become it gonna be very honest with you by

949
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: all means, how did they get me on that indictment?

950
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: Two predicate good act is all you need on a

951
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,399
Speaker 1: reco indictment, And they came up with two predict good act.

952
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: One was a conspiracy to distribute cocaine? How did that come? Now?

953
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you, and I'll tell you,

954
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: uh insent in my book, I used to have four

955
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: the fifty pounds, but we've flown it in New York

956
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: every two weeks. I had airports, I had a pilot,

957
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 1: I had everything like boom boom boom, nice cocaine. I

958
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:51,480
Speaker 1: really never involved him, but it was a Germaican boy

959
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: named Ricky Lee, and I took care of Ricky. Rickie

960
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: was a good boy, made a ton of fucking money

961
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 1: and he was signing product from here to Brooklyn and

962
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 1: North Carolina. Had a big home up in Hollywood Hill.

963
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: I was godfather to his daughter. And Rickie always came

964
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 1: back and you know, gave me some loving, you know

965
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: what I mean? He got arrested. He was supposed to

966
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: stop the business. His wife went away and the urge.

967
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: So he got ahold of five hundred pounds some cocaine

968
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: and a gun, and he shipped at the North Carolina

969
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: and somebody where at the shipping place they tracked it.

970
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: He got arrested. I was lawyering him off. He was

971
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: at downtown n DC here or lawyering him up. He

972
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: had ships several a half a million dollars worth a cocaine.

973
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 1: I was on the streets in Brooklyn and his wife

974
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: came over with the mexicanst for what happened to know

975
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 1: him boat. And in the meantime, Sonny Frank j sent

976
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: Guy Ftato while to meet with me. Guy Ftato was

977
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 1: a guy to Sonny was Grooman was going with his

978
00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: main guy. He's row for was Sonny the Underboston family

979
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,759
Speaker 1: at the time. And you know, Sonny endorses the guy.

980
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: The guy had been wired right from the first fucking moment.

981
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:11,439
Speaker 1: Sonny had no clue. Right, Sunny had no clue even

982
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 1: though he was told he's still I mean. This guy

983
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: was an FBI was in informant for the d A

984
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 1: before he went to the FBI. When the d A

985
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,200
Speaker 1: was through with him. He got over with Sunny. Thus

986
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: the five hundred of Semite tapes, and Sonny was on

987
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 1: most of them, which was not good. And you were

988
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: only only living. I was on eleven and he sit

989
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: on my couch. And the guys who owed the money

990
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: to Ricky on the streets, they knew who man who

991
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: I was, picked up the phone and they had a

992
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: hundred grad already. They weren't running dodging what the probable

993
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 1: was was. Ricky thought, I'm gonna send them. I forgot

994
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: how many keel it was, but I'm gonna side of that.

995
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: There was so many money back. But he didn't realize

996
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: that these guys were converted the critical game, so he

997
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: was taking the longer the convert it get the money

998
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: to send back. So they already had a hundred thousand

999
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: dollars ready. And there's guy. I could have somebody figure

1000
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: that up tonight. It's great. We got the guy. I

1001
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: don't have to make no call, no nothing. So he

1002
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: has somebody pick up the first one your ground, and

1003
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: then he starts talking to the Mexican that he wants

1004
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 1: fifty kilo he's at me and or fifty kills every

1005
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: two weeks. I got the car, nobody the van will

1006
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: ship it back to New York and all the money

1007
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,959
Speaker 1: we're gonna make. And then when he's back to New York,

1008
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: he's sucking to Michael, who was Sonny's nephew, who was

1009
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: acting captain of the Colombo family. I never had any

1010
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: interaction with Michael. Now guy Fitto talking to Michael about

1011
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: all the money we're going to make with Ori because

1012
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: we're bringing fifty kilos, we're paying twelve thousand, he's gonna

1013
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 1: sell it for twenty eight. We're gonna make all this

1014
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: money every couple of weeks, right, is that Michael cut Potto? Yeah, okay, boy,

1015
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: you're good. That's that's that's a that's our special weapon.

1016
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: So no, Michael never called me, asked me about it. Nobody.

1017
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: So here's Michael thinking we're doing this deal or he's

1018
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: putting it together. Of course Michael was out here. He

1019
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: saw it. He saw the restrict respect the head on

1020
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: the streets out there. But they deal don't happen because

1021
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it, and these guys ain't going to

1022
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: give it up unless they're all half a million dollars paid.

1023
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: So I got you basically conspiracy. They got me for conspiracy,

1024
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: ReCl conspiracy. Not only that. Now Fotato starts digging it

1025
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: into Michael Cotta pottle that or he did the deal

1026
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: and fucked us. So Michael goes to Sunny. He gets

1027
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: permission to wake me. So that's why Sunny France says

1028
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: they wanted to act. Yeah, so he ordered that he

1029
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: didn't or get the approval. But this is why you

1030
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: were in custody though, right or before before we go okay,

1031
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 1: before you guys got arrested. Before did you know that

1032
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: he or did you whack before you guys got arrested?

1033
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: You learned all of this while you're reading You're discovered

1034
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: in My Discovery. That's crazy, Hunt James, You listening to

1035
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: a to a tape of somebody saying, Okay, I give

1036
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: you permission get rid of you. How did you feel?

1037
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it's part of the game. So I knew

1038
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: you accepted to a certain extent because this is part

1039
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: of the game, you know what being a man? And

1040
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: I feel that I'm a man. I was piste off.

1041
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: Why was I piste off that because of order that there?

1042
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,240
Speaker 1: Because it was a stupid thing. Because suddenly used to

1043
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: call me up and say, come on in the hand

1044
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: fucking dinner. Okay, you don't call me up and asked

1045
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: me what the whole the story and overre If you

1046
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 1: would have called me, he would have known the FOTAO.

1047
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: Then we would have discovered fo an informant. But ID

1048
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: like we could be best friends. But if you sunk up,

1049
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: I can't stop this hit, so I might have to

1050
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: wag my best friend. So you're not gonna get a

1051
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,479
Speaker 1: phone call. You're gonna say come on, let's take a ride,

1052
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 1: and you're hopping the front seat. We alreadynew what's gonna

1053
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 1: happen because these two the goons in the back seat.

1054
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: So you want a getting way, you know, you don't understand.

1055
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: I've known Sonny close to fifty years now. I've learned

1056
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: an awful lot for Sonny. And I said on the

1057
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 1: interview with these animal the other day, these guys are

1058
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: smart guys, and I considered myself a smart guy. Guys

1059
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 1: will become bosses, are not scoopid, and you gotta be

1060
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 1: having a muti function. Sonny was very smart and I

1061
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 1: was just surprised that he did that, and I was

1062
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: a little bit hurt. And our last words that we

1063
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,439
Speaker 1: had before he got out, before we did our time

1064
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: was were sitting in the girl when he comes in.

1065
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: He was on bail. I couldn't get bill. I was

1066
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: facing fucking life with fifty kilos of cocaine. And he

1067
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: comes in at Bunny, I hear you're upset with me.

1068
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: I'm shutting down. He's standing around. The judge is over

1069
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: here in the world with defunded buddy. I'm not piste

1070
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,920
Speaker 1: off with you, I said, I'm upset. We were talking

1071
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 1: a little, just so YouTube stop talking. I got seven.

1072
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: It was the luckiest thing to happen to me because

1073
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: I got severed from that case because I was going

1074
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: to use that discovery at my trial. At the trial,

1075
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: so Sunny lawyer tried to get me, prevent me from

1076
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 1: using that discovery at the trial and try to get

1077
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:41,760
Speaker 1: severed Sunny Franchise from the trial. And the judge says,

1078
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:46,320
Speaker 1: not any I'm not in Sunny Franchise is not being severed.

1079
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,440
Speaker 1: But I read a motion, Mrs fade O Rolle, I

1080
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: wrote a motion that I wanted my trial was angel

1081
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: because this is where my peers are. I don't live

1082
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn. Those people and not my peers, Am I correct?

1083
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,440
Speaker 1: Usually it goes by, goes by where the crime, the

1084
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: alleged crime occurs as yeah, all right, well you're using

1085
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: the phone, so you're on the phone in Los Angeles

1086
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: talking to people in Brooklyn. So where's the jurisdiction both

1087
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,560
Speaker 1: on both sides? Yeah, both sides. So what was the

1088
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: result of that um that motion about moving your case

1089
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: to the Los Angeles? I wrote my own motion. It

1090
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: was a damn good motion. And the judge says, the

1091
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: US attorney maybe Mrs spadel should be severed. And he says,

1092
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 1: you have until noon tomorrow convinced me otherwise to be

1093
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: back in Neontis, or the next day we're back there,

1094
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: and then Judge and Mrs spadol I have to deny

1095
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:46,440
Speaker 1: your motion for severance and ocation los Angeles. I got

1096
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 1: in the transpress. I got some of it in my book.

1097
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: He should, but when I'm gonna do, he's just if

1098
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,600
Speaker 1: you could explain the difference in legal terms of me.

1099
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: He said that that discovery you want to use could

1100
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,920
Speaker 1: also be used against you. I got up explain this

1101
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: could be inculporatory or exculpriatory, which you could have. You

1102
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: should unconvinced. Mr Sparrow, you know what you're talking about.

1103
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: What do you want? I shall take the severance. So

1104
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: I got severed. It was a lucky day in my life.

1105
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: Otherwise I still be in prison today. What happened to

1106
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,160
Speaker 1: Guy for Tatto? He was the fife for Tatto. We

1107
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: were blessed because there was another faction of the Colombo family,

1108
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:26,960
Speaker 1: Michael Vino and a few other guys. And he was

1109
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: such a bad informant. The judge Weinstein, who is the

1110
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: oldest living judge on the course and I think he's

1111
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: still in today, declare him the worst informity ever you.

1112
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: So now they didn't want to use him as an

1113
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 1: informant against me. They wanted to use the tapes. My

1114
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: attorney said, in no way I want him. Yeah, because

1115
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 1: if you're gonna use the tapes with Guy for Tattle,

1116
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 1: you gotta bring Guy for Tattle to court so your

1117
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,280
Speaker 1: lawyer can cross examine, right, And the U S attorney

1118
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: didn't want to bring the court to and uh so

1119
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,640
Speaker 1: you Loki kind of beat the case even though they

1120
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 1: sentenced you to what I to plead guilty to a

1121
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 1: gun chach, which was a minimum mandatory right, h five years.

1122
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: And on the robbery, the judge I played gud took

1123
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,479
Speaker 1: a deal in ninety seven months to hundred ten months.

1124
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 1: I got sixty two. The judge gave me sixty days

1125
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: on the robbery. U s attorney was bitterness screaming, and

1126
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 1: he looked at her and he said, as far as

1127
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: I'm concerned, you charged Mr Spadeo twice the same crime.

1128
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: He said, Mr spadel my hands are tied. One gun. Judge,

1129
01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:39,400
Speaker 1: I had to give you sixty months, sixty two always blessed,

1130
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: and I got sent to Lumpo. That's crazy that um

1131
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,440
Speaker 1: Sunny wanted you whack now Sonny. He just got out

1132
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: of prison two years ago. Guess how old Sonny is. James.

1133
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 1: Sonny is the oldest Mafia member on earth. If you

1134
01:05:54,560 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: the old and two two we talked about once a

1135
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: month every couple. Was that right? You still talk to him? Wow?

1136
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 1: You talked to the guy that ordered you act. Yeah,

1137
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,840
Speaker 1: that's incredible. Well, at some point y'all fixed that situation.

1138
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: Had to because somebody wouldn't be here, you know exactly.

1139
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 1: It had to be fixed that at some points, you know,

1140
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 1: look like I told him, I don't know, you know

1141
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 1: what if I did something wrong and they gave permission

1142
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: and wait me, they got it right though, but make

1143
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 1: sure I did something wrong. So that means he believed, um,

1144
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: Michael Catapano story about you did the deal, you got

1145
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 1: the money, all this other stuff that never happened, told

1146
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: him that his real name wherever he went by guy.

1147
01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: That's I mean, shouldn't that be some type of rule?

1148
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 1: Get in here, we hold court. Let's talk about this.

1149
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,720
Speaker 1: We can't ship normally. You have plastic on the floor.

1150
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: I'm saying it because I watched these movies and I

1151
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: see plastic on the floor, and if you step on

1152
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: that plastics, you know you're gonna get whacked. So killed

1153
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 1: should I say? And uh, I'm in a moment, so

1154
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 1: you know it was gonna happen. And uh, what's his name?

1155
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: Joe Bessie? Yeah, when he played and they beating with

1156
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 1: the baseball back that that was a casino in Casino

1157
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 1: or Goods when it was killing him and his brother exactly,

1158
01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: but the baseball back that was it was casino. What

1159
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying is it don't matter who's who. You know,

1160
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, you make a mistake. They don't hold court,

1161
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: holding courters, getting rid of the situation, the problem. So

1162
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean that's why I said, it's totally different from

1163
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,080
Speaker 1: our culture, our way of game banging and doing what

1164
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:57,440
Speaker 1: we're doing. I don't think their coature was game banging.

1165
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 1: There's like, uh, it's it's a better way. Come on,

1166
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: how did you It's not it's not it's I mean

1167
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: organized crime. They're organized. They're organized to the team, but

1168
01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 1: a lot of times I think they're too quick to

1169
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: whack people because they go on perceptions, they go on rumors,

1170
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: and they don't get the facts too. They make mistakes.

1171
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 1: That's what's wrong with it today. Nobody Today You've got

1172
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: guys who become government and informants and they're still living

1173
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: in the same same how same neighborhood in Brooklyn. They

1174
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: they don't leave, they don't go under what's like brogram No,

1175
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: we'll see what you have now. And there is older

1176
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: bosses you got you got me in that's seventy five,

1177
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 1: seventy nine years old. That's not being to do fifty years,

1178
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: thirty years, uh, ninety two months in the federal facility.

1179
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: So uh, leave that motherfuck alone because I don't want

1180
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:54,240
Speaker 1: this ship brown here. So just bring my money. It's

1181
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: all about the money. Now, it's all about the money.

1182
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: So how is money doing that? A hundred and two

1183
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 1: years old? Um him. I had to call him earlier

1184
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: the morning, earlier to morning my time. I gotta get him,

1185
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 1: like I called, I'm up early, anima, so I'll call

1186
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 1: him like six. So it's nine a m. There. He's

1187
01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 1: just getting through with his react and he's actually moving around.

1188
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,519
Speaker 1: He rowed around because he's going out to lunch every day.

1189
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 1: I should what the funk you doing? I said, I

1190
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 1: should you go one more? And I do? Buddy, You

1191
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:26,719
Speaker 1: know how we are gotta keep out there and gotta

1192
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: keep moving. And I thought we have conversations. And I

1193
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 1: just left my hands up with this guy because somebody

1194
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 1: was so many they didn't think his mind was that good.

1195
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 1: I mean, I had a conversation with him and we

1196
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 1: were talking about the politics today and he going, Buddy,

1197
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 1: it's all in the Bible. I said, sid, let me

1198
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: ask you a question. When the fund, did you ever

1199
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: read the Bible? Let me tell you, he says. One

1200
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: time they put me in the hole, he said, and

1201
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 1: I read every book that they had around. Did I

1202
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: get my hands on He's they're no more books, and

1203
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,560
Speaker 1: the last one was the Bible, so I read it.

1204
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:04,960
Speaker 1: He buddy, he says, those old guys who wrote that

1205
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 1: Bible were smart. Bastard. Did you ever meet Carmine Persico

1206
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: who was the actual boss or the family who just

1207
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 1: recently passed. I think so, because Sunny would have been

1208
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: Sunny was his underboss. I believed. Well back in the day,

1209
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 1: the years ago, there were here. If Carmel was away

1210
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: Sunday with the boss, Sunday was away, Karmen Camem became

1211
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,799
Speaker 1: the boss. Uh what you gonna say, James, I'm actually

1212
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: like looking at you like, damn, you did your homework

1213
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 1: on this. Well, you know, I grew up in New

1214
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,200
Speaker 1: York in the seventies. You know, my family's from New York.

1215
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: So when I was a kid, we knew about the

1216
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 1: five families. We knew about them. And where I moved to,

1217
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:56,440
Speaker 1: or where my family migrated to, was an old Italian

1218
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: neighborhood in East Harlem, which eventually became all Port of

1219
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,679
Speaker 1: beacon Um. Pleasant Street was was where all the Puerto

1220
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: Ricans eventually moved. But there's a restaurant there that state

1221
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 1: Italian and there was no more Italians living in East Tarland.

1222
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:12,800
Speaker 1: But every week that comes driving from wherever they live

1223
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,840
Speaker 1: to come to this restaurant and it was I think

1224
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,600
Speaker 1: it was a fourteenth and Pleasants. Um. I think that

1225
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: restaurant is still there. Um. I don't remember the name

1226
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: of it. So yeah, I have a little understanding of

1227
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: all of this stuff because of just growing up in

1228
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,439
Speaker 1: New York City. You know about the Gambino family, you

1229
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: know about the Colombo and the Bananos, you know about

1230
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:36,240
Speaker 1: the Luke CAZy, the genovesa Is because they all spread

1231
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: out through all these burrows and you can't help but

1232
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 1: learn this stuff in New York. And it's crazy to

1233
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: actually survive it, you know what I'm saying, Because every

1234
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: day is a gamble, you know what I'm saying. And

1235
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: I'm only saying that from my perspective watching these movies

1236
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,120
Speaker 1: that they put out. And you know scar Face, you know,

1237
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 1: every day he woke up, it was man, I could

1238
01:12:00,479 --> 01:12:02,880
Speaker 1: die to day, you know what I'm saying. That's pretty

1239
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,000
Speaker 1: much It's really not, you know, but there is the

1240
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: same We used to have a seen you many years ago.

1241
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 1: You know, we used to me, there's a dinner anymore

1242
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:14,639
Speaker 1: if you over you know, if you showed up one

1243
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 1: day and Peter wasn't there, you know, you don't answer

1244
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 1: Peter Rich. But if Peter ain't there to that day,

1245
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,280
Speaker 1: you know, Peter ain't coming back. So what's your favorite

1246
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:27,680
Speaker 1: movie that kind of talks about the life. Most of

1247
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: the movies are based on the East Coast, even though

1248
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 1: people don't know that there was a mafia family in

1249
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. It kind of died off when during the

1250
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties though, when Um when the l a

1251
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 1: p D hired Um William Parker. William Parker became the

1252
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 1: chief of the l a p D. And he got

1253
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 1: rid of all of this stuff. He wasn't tolerating it.

1254
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:50,639
Speaker 1: But what's your favorite movie that kind of depicts the life.

1255
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,160
Speaker 1: That's a good question because I really don't have one.

1256
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:59,280
Speaker 1: But about Bronx Tales Without Pain. Yeah, that was a

1257
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: good I'm sorry in that movie. Have you ever like, Okay,

1258
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 1: I did this to your dad? This kid grows up

1259
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: and did come at you. I mean it's all different

1260
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:15,360
Speaker 1: kind of ways. Have you ever had anybody trying to

1261
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:18,200
Speaker 1: come at you because they felt you had something to

1262
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: do with their people? What do they love ones? No? No,

1263
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 1: I never had that. Do you remember I've been out

1264
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:28,640
Speaker 1: here over fifty years? Uh, not over fifty years. I

1265
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 1: take that back a long time. Nineteen seventy I was there. Yeah,

1266
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: you'll read about that FBI agent in the book. I

1267
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: put his name in a book. Okay. Uh. That Italian

1268
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 1: restaurant I'll talk about. It's called Rawls, Yeah, hundred fourteen

1269
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: and pleasant and it's still an Italian restaurant. It's big.

1270
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: You can buy the sauce and long pavilions real they yeah,

1271
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,479
Speaker 1: like nine dollars. But it's not an Italian neighborhood anymore.

1272
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,919
Speaker 1: You know, the Italians with the restaurant, the Stone tables,

1273
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:10,479
Speaker 1: my wife. Yeah. So Michael Harris, real quick before we

1274
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,679
Speaker 1: wrap up the show. You actually met Harry oh, Michael Harris?

1275
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:17,600
Speaker 1: Or didn't meet him over the phone because he was incarcerated.

1276
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: And do you talk about him in your book? I

1277
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: mentioned him? I can't remember now. In fact, wish he

1278
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:26,360
Speaker 1: had a book. I could look at the induct And

1279
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: did you ever answer his phone calls when he used

1280
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 1: to call death Row? Michael Harris, who would take those calls?

1281
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: Every different people? Um? When he called everybody was instructed

1282
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: nonstance or that phone, because if you called on the

1283
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:50,760
Speaker 1: red phone, you it was somebody, it was somebody big,

1284
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 1: it was somebody important. So he started answering him. Then

1285
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: he just stopped. You just don't answer that. And that

1286
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,040
Speaker 1: came with you know, his wife coming up there, the

1287
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 1: whole nine and all of that. So, I mean, you

1288
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 1: know what type of cash you was. So it was boy,

1289
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm glad I did not get involved in that, yeah,

1290
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,640
Speaker 1: because you would have had you what you probably had

1291
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: to get rid of him because he put you on

1292
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 1: the bullshit mission. Well no, and you know it's like

1293
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 1: I said, you know, and I said, like, you know,

1294
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 1: I could be up. Sonny should have caught me back

1295
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: said at the table and discuss what happened here. And

1296
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 1: if you would have done that there, then he would

1297
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:37,519
Speaker 1: discover the guy for that over an informant. Because you know,

1298
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:39,160
Speaker 1: that's how you're going to read in my book. I

1299
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: told you about that half a million on your brand

1300
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 1: came in what Ham did? The other four hundred thousands,

1301
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: it's in my book, it's on my discovery. Okay, the

1302
01:15:50,640 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 1: FBI got the fucking money personally. So you guys never

1303
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 1: really specifically talked about it you want, Sonny. He just

1304
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 1: I have a rule my father. They taught me as

1305
01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 1: a young boy. Never the snitch. My sister snitched on

1306
01:16:05,040 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: me one time and my father gave her to spanking.

1307
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 1: Still made me go on and fade the garden, but

1308
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 1: she got the sprank. Never snitch. So he used to

1309
01:16:14,120 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 1: tell me I had to tell him everything. But he

1310
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 1: and I an't a problem. I'm not gonna go to

1311
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: Sunny with it because don't I'm snitching on you. That's

1312
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 1: still being a snitch. Don't you agree, Well, conversation needs

1313
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 1: to be explained in order to get to the bottom

1314
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 1: of the situation. Well, you're in intelligent guy, I mean

1315
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 1: it really does. If not, then you can't fix the situation.

1316
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: And if you can't fix the situation, the only thing

1317
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 1: you gotta do that's left is to get rid of it.

1318
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 1: To think of how many guys are dead over nothing. Yeah, yeah,

1319
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:52,599
Speaker 1: And then you know, it's like when the FBI set

1320
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:56,120
Speaker 1: me up and I take the FBI. But I could

1321
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:59,639
Speaker 1: tell when the attorney got that phone call, he said

1322
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 1: he I called me and they said this is your

1323
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 1: last chance or else to work with him. The attorney

1324
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 1: name is Mark Mazie. He's an entertainment lawyer. Today. I said,

1325
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,280
Speaker 1: what did they mean by that or else? He said,

1326
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sorry Mark telling me you spoke

1327
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 1: to me. Tell them that. Orey said go fund yourself.

1328
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:24,560
Speaker 1: And then I sat in my chair on swall and

1329
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:27,639
Speaker 1: I thought, what do they mean by that or else?

1330
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: And then it came to me, They're gonna go well

1331
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 1: with their informants and say that I'm a snack, I'm

1332
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:39,920
Speaker 1: a wreck. You sure should? They did? Well. I beat

1333
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 1: him to the punch because Jimmy Cacchi was one of

1334
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: the tapes fly back to Buffalo, New York, go on

1335
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,839
Speaker 1: record with Joe Tadaryl, who was the boss of Buffalo,

1336
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:55,120
Speaker 1: because thought he was in prison. So I was in

1337
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 1: record when I was taking the FBI with a boss,

1338
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 1: so I know the route. They wanted me to keep

1339
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,599
Speaker 1: doing it. Jimmy, so you're in trouble, Yeah, I did.

1340
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: So you how close were you with Jimmy Cochi? Now

1341
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:14,920
Speaker 1: he was part of the Los Angeles family, right, Jimmy

1342
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,960
Speaker 1: was regally from Buffalo. Jimmy was the most serious guy

1343
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:21,640
Speaker 1: out here in my opinion. Uh, Jimmy and I were

1344
01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:25,040
Speaker 1: like brothers. He was never the boss of the Los

1345
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:29,920
Speaker 1: Angeles family. He was the boss to Palm Springs. Never

1346
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: made no money down't there, Jimmy, How you don't make

1347
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:37,599
Speaker 1: any money in Palm Springs. That's where all the millionaires are, right, Jimmy.

1348
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:41,759
Speaker 1: Jimmy would be at my door and a Monday moron

1349
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:46,880
Speaker 1: and on Friday he leave. We we made money, were Jimmy.

1350
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 1: We made money. We shopped it fifty fifty. That's the

1351
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: way I like doing things. Chapter fifty fifty. Wouldn't Jimmy

1352
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: have to send them back to buff to Upstate New York?

1353
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 1: What Jimmy did with their money? I don't know. Yeah,

1354
01:19:06,439 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: Jimmy still no. I think he passed, And I honestly

1355
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: think I've really one of the last people to speak

1356
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 1: to him. That I was calling him from prison. He

1357
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 1: just got home from the hospital and he was I

1358
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 1: had to call Betty and then he die. Yeah, and

1359
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 1: that was kind of like I think Jimmy is like

1360
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:32,280
Speaker 1: the last of the Los Angeles crime family, the last

1361
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:36,599
Speaker 1: one on here. Right. It's pretty um. I think it's

1362
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 1: pretty non existent now that Los Angeles has uh anything

1363
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,679
Speaker 1: going on. But you know, if there was, I ain't

1364
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,000
Speaker 1: going near him because I never went there, the guy

1365
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:48,559
Speaker 1: who don't any of us anyways, but you didn't mind.

1366
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,880
Speaker 1: But during that time, you didn't mind associating with guys

1367
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: like Jimmy and all these other people, and you knew

1368
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 1: what they were doing. And I had a close connection.

1369
01:19:56,600 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: Were from Buffalo, h you know, we're from the same

1370
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 1: neck of the woods in New York. People missed took

1371
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:09,360
Speaker 1: us for brothers a lot of time when we were out.

1372
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 1: You know, there was a problem. You know, if I

1373
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: see Sonny, you tell Jimmy you're with me. Jimmy, tell

1374
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 1: Sonny you're with me. I had the issue Jimmy the

1375
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,760
Speaker 1: sunny I'm the one who made that injury like that. Uh.

1376
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:29,320
Speaker 1: But no, Jimmy was a great guy. He eventually learned

1377
01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:34,080
Speaker 1: to read it write. And Jimmy was feared out here

1378
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:40,719
Speaker 1: as far as these things are, he was feared. Jimmy

1379
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 1: Cocchi died on August six, two thousand eleven, at the

1380
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:47,759
Speaker 1: age of eighty six. Well, a lot of these guys

1381
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: are up there in age like like really like, oh,

1382
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:56,000
Speaker 1: I've been there. Yeah, I've been around for a long time.

1383
01:20:56,280 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 1: You know one thing, you know, it's really funny, and

1384
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:02,760
Speaker 1: I knows anything. But when I was in Brooklyn and

1385
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:07,640
Speaker 1: we were in a tower over there is she like

1386
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: all the Italian wise guys are diabetic. H Oh that good?

1387
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 1: Uh sauce that alright? So um, before we go, I

1388
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,559
Speaker 1: just want you to give us at least a Frank

1389
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 1: Sinatra story. I know you probably have him in your book,

1390
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,560
Speaker 1: but just tell us something brief about Frank Sinatra. You

1391
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 1: knew the guy personally, Frank. Frank was not allowed to

1392
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:42,040
Speaker 1: smoke around his wife. So in the days before they

1393
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 1: all this bullshit was smoking. You can smoke at the bar.

1394
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:52,040
Speaker 1: And you know, Frank Sinatra, I put up the money

1395
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 1: for Matteos and Westwood Boulevard. They both grew up in Hoboken.

1396
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 1: Uh maddim tail. Mattie was funny and Uh I was

1397
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: there every night. I said, on this side of the

1398
01:22:10,120 --> 01:22:14,280
Speaker 1: dining room. Frank said, in the dining room over with

1399
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: the table people in his white Barbara. Well, we we

1400
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: said at the bar, he come over and get a cigarette,

1401
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 1: and we said at the bar, and then we were

1402
01:22:25,560 --> 01:22:28,840
Speaker 1: talking and have a lot of conversations about the old days.

1403
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:33,600
Speaker 1: But one of the best conversations was he walked on

1404
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: one night, we're getting our card with the valet, and

1405
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,400
Speaker 1: he asked the valet, what's the biggest tip you ever got?

1406
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 1: And the guys ballet says a hundred dollars. Franks, you're

1407
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:51,840
Speaker 1: really so Frank gives him two hundred and he says,

1408
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 1: who gave you the hundred? He said, you did, sir.

1409
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's hilarious. That's Frank always hung out with

1410
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:03,760
Speaker 1: all the gangsters. Even though he was a singer, he

1411
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 1: was in the music business. He hung out with gangsters.

1412
01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 1: He's from the photograph with almost all the gangsters. But

1413
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: you know what I noticed. This is something that that

1414
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 1: always bothered me that white gangsters can do whatever. White

1415
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: gangsters and white entertainers can hang out and socialize, and

1416
01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:23,080
Speaker 1: no one criticized it. But when people of color who

1417
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 1: are entertainers hang out with gangsters, they point the finger

1418
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 1: at this person that you're you're a bad guy. Frank

1419
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:32,080
Speaker 1: Sinatra got away with hanging out with whoever he wanted

1420
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 1: to hang out with, and had took very little stigma

1421
01:23:35,280 --> 01:23:39,040
Speaker 1: for that. And he broke the ratio bar vega by

1422
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:42,200
Speaker 1: by bringing Sammy Davis jan And that was crazy because

1423
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:45,600
Speaker 1: Sammy David Jr. Hanging with them. I wonder how the

1424
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 1: hell he did it? Yeah, how he did it? I

1425
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 1: mean back then, you couldn't go to Vegas without being

1426
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 1: called the N word, way back then when they was

1427
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,200
Speaker 1: when when they first came in to Vegas. So that

1428
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 1: was crazy. Sammy Davis and he was part of the

1429
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: Red Back Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Frank Sinatra. I grew

1430
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:15,880
Speaker 1: up in the seventies, did much racial Oh yeah, where

1431
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:19,640
Speaker 1: I was born in the Bronx, there was uh you

1432
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 1: had the black section, you had the Puerto Rican section,

1433
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:25,559
Speaker 1: and you had the Italian section. Now I just took

1434
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:27,640
Speaker 1: my son there a couple of weeks ago. None of

1435
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 1: that exists anymore. Everything is all mixed in because we

1436
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 1: got Dominicans that moved in Jamaicans. But when I was

1437
01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 1: a kid, it was all segregated, you know. So it's

1438
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,680
Speaker 1: kind of cool that it doesn't exist anymore. Then when

1439
01:24:39,720 --> 01:24:42,439
Speaker 1: you was there, it was pretty much like the Bronx tales,

1440
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:49,519
Speaker 1: You niggers get out of our neighborhood. Excuse my person.

1441
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:51,840
Speaker 1: It was just like that. It was just like that,

1442
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:55,040
Speaker 1: especially in the seventies when I was really young. By

1443
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 1: the time you get to the eighties and nineties, are

1444
01:24:57,320 --> 01:25:01,920
Speaker 1: starting to change. But I remembered Webster Avenue. Uh if

1445
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: you cross Website Avenue, that's where all the Brothers is at.

1446
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: And people just say, don't you better not cross Website Avenue.

1447
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: You get jazz kicked a cross webs Avenue, you know,

1448
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,600
Speaker 1: so you know it doesn't that doesn't exist anymore. But

1449
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: but there are still pockets in Brooklyn. See, Brooklyn got gentrified. Um,

1450
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:20,600
Speaker 1: there were parts of Brooklyn that we're still segregated. But

1451
01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: that gentrification Park Slope is all like yuppies and white

1452
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 1: business people moved into the sections of Brooklyn that we're

1453
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:36,240
Speaker 1: all exp Oh man, that's crazy Brooklyn is. And even Harlem,

1454
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 1: Harlem costs too much money to live now we developed

1455
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:43,320
Speaker 1: that there. You're gonna see the same thing in a

1456
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:46,720
Speaker 1: lot of Angeles. Oh, it's already happening there. Now. I

1457
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 1: can't believe the rents in Inglewood, James. People used to

1458
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 1: move to Ingleod because, oh, I can go give me

1459
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 1: a one betroom apartment. You know, I get one bed

1460
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:57,720
Speaker 1: room for six hundred in Inglewood. Now it's like two

1461
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 1: thou dollars for one bedroom apartment. And Gowood you know,

1462
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,040
Speaker 1: but uh, or I want to thank you for coming

1463
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 1: on this edition of The Gangster Chronicles. I want to

1464
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:14,160
Speaker 1: just remind everyone that your book just came out November

1465
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:20,280
Speaker 1: two THO. Yeah, yesterday, and technically yesterday. Not not only that, Alex,

1466
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:24,040
Speaker 1: but we want everybody to know that this interview was different.

1467
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 1: It's certain things that we couldn't we couldn't address. It's

1468
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:31,600
Speaker 1: things that we didn't want to address with this this

1469
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:36,719
Speaker 1: man here because um of his book and his personal

1470
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 1: safety whatever. But good interview. We appreciate you coming here,

1471
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:48,639
Speaker 1: and maybe we can just you know, get into it once.

1472
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:52,120
Speaker 1: Everybody get this book and and and I need to

1473
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,000
Speaker 1: read it so I can have more this. You know what,

1474
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't even have a book yet.

1475
01:26:57,200 --> 01:26:59,080
Speaker 1: You ain't got a book. I don't have a book yet.

1476
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:01,640
Speaker 1: I bought a book for a friend of mine is

1477
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 1: still in prison. He'll have it tomorrow. It's literally you

1478
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 1: doing any book signings or anything coming up. Uh. I'm

1479
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:13,640
Speaker 1: talking with Borders. I bind the nobles over here. I

1480
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: don't know if the door Amazon in Century City. Uh,

1481
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,560
Speaker 1: the mob Museum in Las Vegas wants me there for

1482
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:26,800
Speaker 1: a talk in a book signing. I spoke with gentleman there.

1483
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:31,120
Speaker 1: I said the end of January or February. So when

1484
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 1: you do get when you do get the schedule, let

1485
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,479
Speaker 1: us know and we can let everybody else will let

1486
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:40,040
Speaker 1: you know. That will work. And the book is available

1487
01:27:40,240 --> 01:27:43,760
Speaker 1: online at Amazon. It's also on Bars and Noble, The

1488
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,760
Speaker 1: Accidental gang Story. They can go to my website w

1489
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:53,400
Speaker 1: w W dot the Accidental Gangster dot com, and they

1490
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 1: can find me on Instagram at the Accidental Gangster dot com.

1491
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 1: All righty, that's or Spado the Accidental Gangster dot com,

1492
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 1: and also on Instagram at the Accidental Gangster. And his book.

1493
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,559
Speaker 1: I saw his book already available online. It just came

1494
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 1: out yesterday, The Accidental Gangster. Go out there and get it.

1495
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go get it as soon as possible, read it,

1496
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:19,519
Speaker 1: and then I'm I want to have another conversation with

1497
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,600
Speaker 1: you after I read the book. I'd be happy to

1498
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:25,040
Speaker 1: come back. And I want to just thank everybody for

1499
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: listening to another episode of The Gangster Chronicles. Don't forget.

1500
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 1: You can hit James McDonald up on his Facebook page

1501
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 1: or his Instagram. You can hit me up at alex

1502
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:36,639
Speaker 1: Alonzo one zero one on all social media platforms. Don't forget.

1503
01:28:36,680 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 1: He's still got those Death Row T shirts and uh,

1504
01:28:40,439 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 1: that's it. We're out. We're out, we're out. See y'all

1505
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:47,760
Speaker 1: next week. This has been a digital showbutch network production.