WEBVTT - The A Building: The Takeover

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up on the A Building.

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<v Speaker 2>We have broken the status what we've changed. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the reasons why our wins, our protests have

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<v Speaker 2>created this atmosphere right now to take away our history,

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<v Speaker 2>to take away everything from us, because we've won too

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<v Speaker 2>much in their eyes.

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<v Speaker 3>I really hope that there's a future where we can

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<v Speaker 3>still address social ills together.

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<v Speaker 1>The A Building, Episode five, The Takeover.

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<v Speaker 4>Benjamin Mays with the sixth president of Morehouse College. He

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<v Speaker 4>was born to two former slaves in South Carolina. He

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<v Speaker 4>graduated from Bates College in Lewiston, Maine, in nineteen twenty

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<v Speaker 4>He came to Atlanta and became a Baptist minister. In

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen twenty two. He concluded a master's degree in New

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<v Speaker 4>Testament studies from the University of Chicago School of Religion

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<v Speaker 4>in nineteen twenty five. He became president of Morehouse. In

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen forty, at the turn of a new decade, Morehouse

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<v Speaker 4>found itself amid a morale problem. Black institutions in the

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<v Speaker 4>Atlanta area were progressing faster in faculty and curriculum. Between

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen thirty and nineteen forty, the faculty and Land University

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<v Speaker 4>increased by two hundred and twenty percent, and the faculty

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<v Speaker 4>at Spelman College increased by eighty percent.

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<v Speaker 1>Most Morehouse classes were taught by Atlanta University and Spellman faculty.

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<v Speaker 1>Uncollected tuition and a small endowment hurt any chance at

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<v Speaker 1>expansion for Morehouse. At the beginning of his tenure as president,

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<v Speaker 1>Mays devised elaborate fundraising campaigns for alumni to increase contributions.

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<v Speaker 1>He also installed programs to collect tuition arrears from students aggressively.

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<v Speaker 1>He earned the nickname bucke Beny around campus.

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<v Speaker 4>During his twenty seven years as president, the land area

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<v Speaker 4>doubled from ten to twenty acres. He was able to

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<v Speaker 4>build five dormitories, a dining hall, a new academic building,

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<v Speaker 4>the Morehouse School of Religion and Music, student and faculty housing.

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<v Speaker 4>After his retirement, he became a President emeritus and a

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<v Speaker 4>member of the Morehouse Board of Trustees. He cast a

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<v Speaker 4>large shadow on the new president, Hugh Gloucester. Both men

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<v Speaker 4>found themselves locked in with students who were very unhappy

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<v Speaker 4>with the corslated Morehouse, and the frustration would go beyond

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<v Speaker 4>the norm of the corps expected of Morehouse men.

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<v Speaker 1>The students expressed their frustration to doctor Mays. They liked them,

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<v Speaker 1>they respected them, but they wanted more. Doctor King's assassination

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<v Speaker 1>had left a dark cloud on the entire campus, and

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<v Speaker 1>in this moment all decorum was gone. Here are doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Mays's contemporaneous notes of the locke In.

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<v Speaker 5>This is April eighteenth, the day of the annual board

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<v Speaker 5>meeting of Morehouse College. I'm writing this article while being

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<v Speaker 5>held hostage, along with other trustees of Morehouse College, by

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<v Speaker 5>a group of students from several of the institutions that

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<v Speaker 5>make up the Atlanta University Center. Members of a committee

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<v Speaker 5>which met with the Morehouse board were four women from Spelman,

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<v Speaker 5>three from Morehouse, one from Clark, one from Morris Brown,

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<v Speaker 5>and a professor from Spelman College.

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<v Speaker 6>At ten a m.

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<v Speaker 5>The Atlanta University Board adjourned and the Morehouse board meeting

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<v Speaker 5>was supposed to begin. It never got started. The committee

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<v Speaker 5>refused to leave the Morehouse board meeting and presented certain demands.

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<v Speaker 5>The teacher from Spelman obviously was in control of the group.

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<v Speaker 5>I came to the meeting at nine thirty this morning.

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<v Speaker 5>It is now three thirty a m. April nineteen, and

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<v Speaker 5>we have been chained in for seventeen and a half hours.

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<v Speaker 4>Mays wrote this letter from the walls of the board

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<v Speaker 4>his frustration with the methods, and added Toude of the

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<v Speaker 4>students was clear he would continue.

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<v Speaker 5>The group outside the room. In the hall numbers about

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<v Speaker 5>fifty or sixty and a morehouse professor. The doors are

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<v Speaker 5>locked and chained. I guess that students in the hall

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<v Speaker 5>are from several institutions in the Center. Some of them

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<v Speaker 5>are not students at all. At noon on the seventeenth,

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<v Speaker 5>a group of students came to the Atlanta University luncheon

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<v Speaker 5>and presented the trustees with a document for each to sign.

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<v Speaker 5>This document read, we the undersigned, resigned from the Board

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<v Speaker 5>of Trustees of the schools within the Atlanta University Center.

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<v Speaker 5>Our purpose in resigning is to enable the Black community

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<v Speaker 5>to control their own education, and toward this end, an

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<v Speaker 5>entirely new process of control must be established, and so

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<v Speaker 5>we step aside. This act will release us from all

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<v Speaker 5>responsibility and leave the schools in the hands of an

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<v Speaker 5>interim committee of alumni, faculty, and the students, to be

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<v Speaker 5>elected from their respective groups. Of course, no one signed.

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<v Speaker 5>Among the demands are the name of the Atlanta University

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<v Speaker 5>Center to be changed to the Martin Luther King Junior University,

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<v Speaker 5>black control of the colleges in the center, and that

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<v Speaker 5>the trustees support the idea of a single university merging

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<v Speaker 5>the six institutions. They mean by black control that the

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<v Speaker 5>majority of the trustees be black. They really wanted to

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<v Speaker 5>get rid of all white trustees. Doctor Martin Luther King Senior,

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<v Speaker 5>a member of the more House Board, vigorously opposed changing

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<v Speaker 5>the name of the center to the Martin Luther King

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<v Speaker 5>Junior University.

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<v Speaker 7>No, no, my son's name, my name, it won't be

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<v Speaker 7>used for this, not like this.

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<v Speaker 8>This isn't the right way to go about this. And

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<v Speaker 8>y'all know that.

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<v Speaker 5>The Moorhouse Board did vote to include an additional nine

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<v Speaker 5>members on the board, all of home would be black.

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<v Speaker 5>There was no meaning of the minds on the other demands.

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<v Speaker 5>So here we are locked in the boardroom of Harkness Hall.

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<v Speaker 5>We will remain in prison for a total of twenty

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<v Speaker 5>eight and a half hours. Some of the group of

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<v Speaker 5>students are most insulting. They curse and use vulgar language.

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<v Speaker 5>If the methods and demands of this group are implemented,

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<v Speaker 5>the black colleges will soon pass away. I have never

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<v Speaker 5>met a more insulting group in all my years.

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<v Speaker 1>Using maze Is the voice of these contentious negotiations was

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<v Speaker 1>a deliberate choice by the administration. He was certainly more

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<v Speaker 1>popular amongst the student population than the current president, Hugh Gloucester. Therefore,

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<v Speaker 1>his rebuke of the protest and the students spoke to

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<v Speaker 1>the uphill battle and the current morale on campus. Here's

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<v Speaker 1>more from our conversation with Professor Philosophy at Morehouse College,

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<v Speaker 1>doctor Elia Davis.

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<v Speaker 9>You all probably already read many of the nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 9>nine Maroon Tigers.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, like the Maroon Tigers are are newspaper.

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<v Speaker 9>Yeah, they are replete with story of the story of rebellion.

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<v Speaker 9>It is a ma and I have several of them

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<v Speaker 9>that I downloaded. I mean, these brothers, they're calling each

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<v Speaker 9>other out in ways that I wish my students would today.

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<v Speaker 9>If you look at the articles from sixty nine, if

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<v Speaker 9>you read those articles, you will see they were merely

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<v Speaker 9>acting out what had been written about that whole year.

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<v Speaker 5>November twenty two, nineteen sixty eight, Harold mckelton, This year

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<v Speaker 5>our college needs a reawakening, and such a rebirth can

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<v Speaker 5>only come with e mergence of a new student force

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<v Speaker 5>of creative innovators. No one is beyond criticism, not the

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<v Speaker 5>establishment or we ourselves. The old order seldom stumbles on

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<v Speaker 5>its own accord. Power is either wrestled from their hands

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<v Speaker 5>through destructive revolution, or the creative socratic gas lies pester

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<v Speaker 5>their tails until the annoying bussing is finally acknowledged. December eighteenth,

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<v Speaker 5>nineteen sixty eight. W. Grayson Mitchell. Student power comes out

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<v Speaker 5>of conflict, not a polite exchange of opposing views. It

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<v Speaker 5>comes out of military light confrontation between collegiate and the

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<v Speaker 5>college administration. In keeping with patterns of conventional warfare. The

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<v Speaker 5>side exerting more force and wielding more pressure exits as

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<v Speaker 5>the gallant victor. The students overthrow the system and impose

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<v Speaker 5>self rule. April eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine, Carthur Drake, editor

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<v Speaker 5>of The Maroon Tiger. Too many times I've seen falsely

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<v Speaker 5>led people make false accusations against other peace people's character.

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<v Speaker 8>Too many times.

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<v Speaker 5>I've seen falsely led people make accusations against our black institutions.

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<v Speaker 8>Too many times.

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<v Speaker 5>I've seen falsely led people make unsupported claimed accusations against

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<v Speaker 5>Morehouse College.

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<v Speaker 9>And so I think the Morehouse students picked all of

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<v Speaker 9>this up as my point. I think all of them

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<v Speaker 9>understood acutely that we want to be different, and this

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<v Speaker 9>is the funny day. It's not just about morehouse and

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<v Speaker 9>black schools either. It's a sentiment that I think was

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<v Speaker 9>ubiquitous across college campuses. And that is for those of

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<v Speaker 9>us who care. What is it that we can.

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<v Speaker 4>Do to represent it?

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<v Speaker 9>How do we not find ourselves being guilty of the

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<v Speaker 9>elitism that a generation before us was guilty of.

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<v Speaker 1>One member of the board found himself at the center

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<v Speaker 1>of the conversation.

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<v Speaker 4>Martin Luther King Senior, often referred to as Daddy King,

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<v Speaker 4>was a taling figure in the American civil rights movement

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<v Speaker 4>and a steadfast leader in the Christian community. Born Michael

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<v Speaker 4>King on December eighteenth, eighteen ninety nine in Stottbridge, Georgia,

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<v Speaker 4>he later changed his name to Martin Luther King to

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<v Speaker 4>honor the Protestant reformer Martin Luther. His legacy is deeply

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<v Speaker 4>intertwined with that of his son, doctor Martin Luther King Junior,

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<v Speaker 4>but he was a significant leader in his own right,

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<v Speaker 4>shaping the moral and spiritual fabric of the time.

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<v Speaker 10>Not old preacher was right, You know what that old

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<v Speaker 10>pushers after lone, you heard my drim hit.

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<v Speaker 8>Long as I live and travel around, I'll hasten to

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<v Speaker 8>the throne.

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<v Speaker 4>He was right.

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<v Speaker 8>Are you listening?

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<v Speaker 4>I love him, God loves I do.

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<v Speaker 1>In pursuit of higher education, he attended Dillard University in

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<v Speaker 1>New Orleans, Louisiana, before transferring to Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia. Morehouse,

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<v Speaker 1>with its strong reputation for producing African American leaders, played

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<v Speaker 1>a crucial role in jping king seniors theological.

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<v Speaker 4>And social perspectives.

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<v Speaker 1>At Morehouse, he was mentored by influential figures such as

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<v Speaker 1>doctor John Hope and doctor Benjamin Mays, both of whom

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<v Speaker 1>emphasized the importance of education, service, and advocacy in the

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<v Speaker 1>African American community. His time at Morehouse reinforced his commitment

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<v Speaker 1>to fighting racial injustice and uplifted his aspirations for ministry

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<v Speaker 1>and social change.

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<v Speaker 4>After completing his studies, King Senior became a minister and

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<v Speaker 4>took on a leadership role at the Ebenezer Baptist Church

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<v Speaker 4>in Atlanta. He married Alberta Williams, the daughter of Riven

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<v Speaker 4>Adam Daniel Williams, the church's senior pastor. Following his father

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<v Speaker 4>in law's passing, King Senior became the lead pastor of Ebenezer,

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<v Speaker 4>a position he would hold for over four decades. His

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<v Speaker 4>passionate sermons an unwavering commitment to justice made him a

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<v Speaker 4>respected figure in Atlanta's religious and civic communities. Throughout his ministry,

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<v Speaker 4>King Senior advocated for racial equality and cannely uplifting it.

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<v Speaker 4>He was a firm believer in economic empowerment, voter rights,

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<v Speaker 4>and educational access for African Americans. His leadership extended beyond

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<v Speaker 4>the poolpit, as he played an active role in the

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<v Speaker 4>NAACP and other organizations pushing for desegregation and equal rights.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen seventy four, his wife, Alberta, was killed inside

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<v Speaker 1>the Ebenezer Baptist Church during a service. He was the target.

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<v Speaker 1>His legacy as a man of faith and social activism

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<v Speaker 1>connects him to the great legacy of American resistance.

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<v Speaker 4>Here's a moment we've previously heard from Alvida King, granddaughter

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<v Speaker 4>to Daddy King. Dude, do you recall, as you all

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<v Speaker 4>called in, Daddy King's reaction to that lock in, or

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<v Speaker 4>his reaction to being essentially held hostage in that way you.

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<v Speaker 11>Know he was like these young folks. That's what he

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<v Speaker 11>would have said, you know, his own son. He didn't

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<v Speaker 11>agree with all my uncle and Daddy's tactics. He would

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<v Speaker 11>ask them to come back off, to not be so

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<v Speaker 11>forceful with it. It was too dangerous. There's got to

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<v Speaker 11>be a better way. That was Granddaddy's perspective. So he

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<v Speaker 11>would have had to have looked at it to say,

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<v Speaker 11>these are the young folks. He would never have discredited

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<v Speaker 11>their concerns. He never would, but he may not have

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<v Speaker 11>agreed with their method.

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<v Speaker 8>No, but sir, here us out. We only need to know.

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<v Speaker 7>No, my son's name, my name, it won't be used

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<v Speaker 7>for this, not like this.

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<v Speaker 8>This isn't the right way to go about this.

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<v Speaker 7>And y'all know that we're prisoners in here and we're

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<v Speaker 7>supposed to listen to you.

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<v Speaker 8>This isn't what more House men would do.

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<v Speaker 4>All due respect sir, but I think this is exactly

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<v Speaker 4>what a more House man would do.

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<v Speaker 8>So, Sam Vivid, where does that leave us?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the A building.

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<v Speaker 4>The following is a timeline presented by the Morehouse College

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<v Speaker 4>Bulletin in the summer of nineteen sixty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Three pm. April eighteen, several hundred More House students advanced

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<v Speaker 1>toward the administration building to liberate the trustees and the

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<v Speaker 1>SGA representatives, but are dissuaded because of possible injury to

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<v Speaker 1>themselves and students occupying the building.

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<v Speaker 5>Evening April eighteen, Doctor Gloucester submitted his resignation as president

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<v Speaker 5>of Morehouse College, effective on a day to be agreed

0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.800
<v Speaker 5>upon by the Board in himself, because he would not

0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.600
<v Speaker 5>participate in a meeting in which members of the Board

0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.880
<v Speaker 5>of Trustees are confined in this conference room by force

0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 5>and are subjected to insult and intimidation. He said that

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.240
<v Speaker 5>he would not sign any document or vote on any

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.120
<v Speaker 5>motion presented in such a meeting, that he would not

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.760
<v Speaker 5>be a party to concessions made under duress.

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.840
<v Speaker 4>After reading his letter to the board, Doctor Gloster went

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.960
<v Speaker 4>on the balcony and read it to Morehouse students, who

0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.800
<v Speaker 4>once more were dissuaded from entering the building by force.

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>At the request of President Gloucester, Jared Manly and four

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.320
<v Speaker 1>other Morehouse board members were freed from the locke in

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>because of age and or illness. Morning April nineteenth, several

0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.840
<v Speaker 1>hundred Morehouse students again advanced towards the Administration building to

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:37.400
<v Speaker 1>liberate the trustees and their SGA representatives, but their SGA

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>president advised them to refrain from entering the building in

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:46.360
<v Speaker 1>order to avoid violence. Doctor Mays and doctor Gloucester agreed

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>to go outside the building to discourage students from entering

0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:55.480
<v Speaker 1>by force. Four pm April nineteen, under duress, six of

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the nine board members present vote to approve the following concessions.

0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 1>The addition of nine black trustees, including students and faculty members,

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:09.120
<v Speaker 1>and the limitation of all trustees to not more than

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:10.680
<v Speaker 1>two successive.

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:11.680
<v Speaker 4>Terms in office.

0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 1>The endorsement of the idea of the consolidation of the

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 1>six institutions in the Atlanta University Center and of recommending

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:24.320
<v Speaker 1>this idea to boards of other Center schools. The granting

0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 1>of amisted at Morehouse students participating in the locke in.

0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.960
<v Speaker 1>The lock in was terminated and both trustees and the

0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>SGA representatives were freed. During the lock in, students not

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 1>only seized and occupied the administration building and attained and

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>imprisoned the trustees and Student Government Association representatives, but also

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>broke into and occupied the office of the President, damaged

0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 1>school property, placed unauthorized long distance phone calls and made

0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.320
<v Speaker 1>unauthorized use of the school supplies. During a meeting with

0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 1>the trustees in sale Hall Chatter, the student body overwhelmingly

0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 1>floated to reject the resignation of doctor Gloucester and the

0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.440
<v Speaker 1>concessions made by board members to their captors.

0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.960
<v Speaker 4>On May sixth, the Faculty of Morehouse Will released the

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.000
<v Speaker 4>following mimo to the Board.

0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 5>To the Board of Trustees of Morehouse College from the

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 5>Faculty of Morehouse College, subject lock in of Trustees and

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 5>SGA representatives on April eighteen and nineteen, We the Faculty

0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 5>of Morehouse College, do hereby disapprove, deplore and condemn the humiliations,

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 5>insults in terror tactics committed by certain students and teachers

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.720
<v Speaker 5>on April eighteen and nineteen. We further resent the implicit

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.800
<v Speaker 5>and explicit racist overtones and the activities of the aforesaid

0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 5>group on the above dates. We affirm our support of

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 5>the attached Statement of Student Rights and Freedoms which was

0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.480
<v Speaker 5>adopted by the faculty on February sixth, nineteen sixty nine.

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.480
<v Speaker 5>Since the Board of Trustees has nullified the concessions made

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.360
<v Speaker 5>under dress on April nineteen, we are assuming that our

0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.480
<v Speaker 5>Faculty Student Advisory Committee, the duly established judiciary body at

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:08.560
<v Speaker 5>Morehouse College, may proceed to take any disciplinary action which

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.200
<v Speaker 5>it deems necessary and proper. The above statement was adopted

0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.680
<v Speaker 5>by the faculty during its regular student meeting on May sixth,

0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.920
<v Speaker 5>nineteen sixty nine, for transmittal to the Board of Trustees.

0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 5>Samuel W. Williams, Secretary of the Faculty.

0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.399
<v Speaker 4>We spoke with reporter Arthur and white House, correspondent for

0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:30.080
<v Speaker 4>the GRIL, April Ryan about her alma mater, Morga State

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.359
<v Speaker 4>University and protests as a means for change. There.

0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:38.879
<v Speaker 2>There's something familiar about an HBC. It's family, it's home.

0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.480
<v Speaker 4>What was campus activism like at the time, Oh my god.

0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.520
<v Speaker 2>People were sick of the food, they were sick of tuition.

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.080
<v Speaker 2>At Morgan, we are part of the community. We don't

0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:55.359
<v Speaker 2>have barriers. You can walk on campus. Anyone is allowed

0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:57.760
<v Speaker 2>on campus, and unfortunately some of those elements from the

0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 2>outside bleed into the campus. They have and so at

0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.479
<v Speaker 2>the time, I remember the students were upset because they

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.400
<v Speaker 2>felt like it wasn't safe. And we've had these problems

0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 2>for years. But there's more of a concerted effort now.

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean And here's the thing, because of some of

0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 2>those protests, we now have a police station literally right

0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.640
<v Speaker 2>next to the basically on some of the campus grounds,

0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 2>just carved out, you know, a Baltimore City police station

0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:29.639
<v Speaker 2>right there. You know, it's never risen to a point

0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:34.480
<v Speaker 2>where we just shut the school down, but we've always

0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 2>had faculty and staff that listened, and that's always been

0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 2>the case. They did take over Truth Hall at one time.

0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.399
<v Speaker 2>That was after I got out of school. We also

0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:47.359
<v Speaker 2>Morgan is also historic because it was right around the

0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:52.640
<v Speaker 2>corner from this place called Northwood Northwood shopping Center, and

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.399
<v Speaker 2>Northwood built a wall behind the shopping center so we

0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.200
<v Speaker 2>couldn't get in. But now the school owns that shot

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:06.520
<v Speaker 2>center and they've taken the wall down. Morgan has been

0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 2>a part of so much history. They sat in at

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Northwood at some of those lunch counters in the sixties

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.000
<v Speaker 2>when people were sitting in. Morgan is a small part

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.879
<v Speaker 2>of the broader protesting of the sixties. You cannot be

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.480
<v Speaker 2>black and be a black institution and not feel the

0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 2>brunt of the broader society. And each time from Reagan

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:35.560
<v Speaker 2>when Reagan was president, I was a student and I

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 2>see this Martin Luther King Day celebration. And guess who

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:45.040
<v Speaker 2>happened to be there? Rosa Parks. Rosa Parks, the mother

0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 2>of the civil rights movement, was sitting there at this

0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Martin Luther King celebration during the Reagan years, right Stevie

0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Wonder saying, and this was just a few years out

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.160
<v Speaker 2>of us getting the national holiday. The place was on

0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.359
<v Speaker 2>such a high, it was the most amazing moment ever.

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Our institutions are places that teach us to break the

0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:11.119
<v Speaker 2>status quo, just like Harvard and Yale and Georgetown and Princeton.

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.040
<v Speaker 2>But we're taught it differently. You know, they were taught

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.520
<v Speaker 2>and probably still are, that they were going to be

0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.800
<v Speaker 2>the ones to lead the country. But guess what HBCUs

0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 2>have taught us that we break the status quo. We

0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 2>have broken the status quote. You had a Vice President

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:26.680
<v Speaker 2>of the United States.

0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:27.439
<v Speaker 8>It's an HBC.

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.480
<v Speaker 2>You are. You have one of the most powerful men

0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:36.119
<v Speaker 2>in Washington, Collageman James Clyburn is an HBC. Youre Cedric Richmond,

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 2>who had the ear of the President of the United States,

0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:42.560
<v Speaker 2>was an HBC. Europ You know April Ryan, the longest

0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.800
<v Speaker 2>serving Black White House correspondent in the nation's history is

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.040
<v Speaker 2>a proud hbc ere. We have broken the status quot

0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:52.160
<v Speaker 2>We've changed, and that's one of the reasons why our wins,

0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:57.400
<v Speaker 2>our protests have created this atmosphere right now to take

0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 2>away our history, to take away everything from us, because

0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 2>we've won too much. In their eyes, we've gained too much.

0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Why do you think they're going after anti woken, anti

0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:11.840
<v Speaker 2>dei I woke miss back in the sixties, I woke.

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.280
<v Speaker 2>This now creates change, it effectuates change.

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 1>And now here's more from Mentalex conversation with Emmy Award

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 1>winning documentary filmmaker Mike Schumm on the complications of protests

0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 1>today in the world of social media and the risk

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.639
<v Speaker 1>to those who protest.

0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.680
<v Speaker 10>And so now you can literally now literally control what

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:34.120
<v Speaker 10>you see.

0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's why.

0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:39.240
<v Speaker 10>People were shocked when Trump won the first time, because

0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.040
<v Speaker 10>it was like, hold on what the people that actually

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.600
<v Speaker 10>voted for Democrat but it's like, yeah, because they literally

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:48.359
<v Speaker 10>didn't see here read engage anything that wasn't outside of

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:53.000
<v Speaker 10>their political purview, right right, Like that's that's fascinating that

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:58.680
<v Speaker 10>it's creating like this intellectual isolation. That's that's actually anathetical

0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:02.880
<v Speaker 10>to anything when it comes to like this basic interaction, right,

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.720
<v Speaker 10>like what was supposed to be a tool to truly

0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.760
<v Speaker 10>enhance our human connectivity.

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I think it's the reverse, the reverse, and that

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:17.639
<v Speaker 3>is that part is fascinating, you know, and that and

0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 3>that's the thing that scares me. I'll say, I'm afraid

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:26.480
<v Speaker 3>of how protests or what the future holds in.

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 6>The way of coming together and mobilizing. I don't know how.

0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:36.160
<v Speaker 3>I don't know the future of that because I see

0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:41.000
<v Speaker 3>a lot of consequence that is the loudest one on

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 3>social media is dictating the narrative of of of of

0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:51.000
<v Speaker 3>of protest or dictating the role of disrupting the way

0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:55.240
<v Speaker 3>people are thinking. I think we've created the conditions and

0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 3>isolating conditions for us to not work together. I think,

0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:04.080
<v Speaker 3>uh that our identities tagged to this sort of virtual perspective.

0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:06.680
<v Speaker 6>That's really concerning, and.

0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:08.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't quite I don't quite know how to think

0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:14.520
<v Speaker 3>about it clearly. But I hope still that maybe if

0:23:14.560 --> 0:23:18.040
<v Speaker 3>it's not social media a reminder on some level that

0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 3>we can stay connected and humanized moving forward.

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 6>I don't know. Yeah, I'm struggled about this.

0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.600
<v Speaker 4>That's a rough one, because then you have to say Okay,

0:23:25.640 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 4>what is the future of resistance in that in that context,

0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:33.120
<v Speaker 4>if you can't even really agree on what's what right right?

0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.199
<v Speaker 3>I think that's the part where we've relegated ourselves so

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:41.399
<v Speaker 3>closely to how we appear in this virtual space that

0:23:41.800 --> 0:23:46.400
<v Speaker 3>I really hope that there's a future where we can

0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 3>still recognize each other as human beings struggling to address

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.480
<v Speaker 3>social ills together. I think there's something there, and I

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.000
<v Speaker 3>feel like we've lost a bit of that spirit of

0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:03.040
<v Speaker 3>coming together. I think the more we lean into social media,

0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:05.800
<v Speaker 3>I think I think we create more barriers for ourselves

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:10.080
<v Speaker 3>and hence not as effective resistance towards unchecked power.

0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:13.439
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. It's almost as if you get to clock in

0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:17.200
<v Speaker 4>and hey, see, look I did my resisting on Twitter already,

0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:17.840
<v Speaker 4>so I'm good.

0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:20.199
<v Speaker 3>You know how many likes did I get to fulfill

0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:21.240
<v Speaker 3>my resistance today?

0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? That I feel my resistance quota for the day.

0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:25.240
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:29.879
<v Speaker 3>And being behind a social media handle that there are

0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.639
<v Speaker 3>a few there are little stakes for that person. I

0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 3>think it comes back to this idea of of.

0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:38.760
<v Speaker 6>Malcolm and Martin Luther King.

0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.160
<v Speaker 3>I think both of them struggled with knowing that when

0:24:42.160 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 3>they pursued protests in these movements, They struggled with the

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 3>consequences of.

0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:47.800
<v Speaker 6>Each of these moments.

0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.280
<v Speaker 3>How many people died, how many people were assaulted.

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:52.680
<v Speaker 4>Arrested, arrested.

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:57.040
<v Speaker 3>They had to deal with that in their communities, in

0:24:57.119 --> 0:24:58.360
<v Speaker 3>these churches.

0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.679
<v Speaker 6>And yet tap them up at night, kept them up

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:01.080
<v Speaker 6>at night.

0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 3>And that's the thrust and the importance of what it

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:06.920
<v Speaker 3>takes to resist, and that is to have to deal

0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:10.400
<v Speaker 3>with those consequences. What does it look like when everything

0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:12.200
<v Speaker 3>is burned to the ground the next day?

0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:13.440
<v Speaker 6>How do you pick up the pieces?

0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 3>These are things that we don't talk about as much anymore,

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:17.960
<v Speaker 3>I don't think at least.

0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the a building.

0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.320
<v Speaker 4>Okay, back to our story of the lock in at Morehouse.

0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.400
<v Speaker 4>So now that we kind of have, you know, we've

0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 4>finally gone through the whole timeline of the protest, what

0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:41.159
<v Speaker 4>they went through, what the consequences are like, what do

0:25:41.200 --> 0:25:45.560
<v Speaker 4>you think really about like the cost of protests, you know,

0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 4>not just for a college student, what we've seen here

0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:53.199
<v Speaker 4>in this story, this lock in, but kind of like

0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:57.840
<v Speaker 4>the cost of protests for society at large, for the republic.

0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:04.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think that in this country there's a

0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.879
<v Speaker 1>generation that remembers that to attend a college or university

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:14.239
<v Speaker 1>is to be on a space where you get to

0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:18.840
<v Speaker 1>protest and you get to voice you're unhappiness with certain

0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:22.439
<v Speaker 1>things happening in society. I think over the last twenty

0:26:22.520 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 1>years we've sort of a culturated couple generations of young

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:34.719
<v Speaker 1>people to not use that or to demonize that that

0:26:35.040 --> 0:26:40.080
<v Speaker 1>use of the voice, specifically on college and university campuses.

0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:44.399
<v Speaker 1>And what's interesting is, I think we've seen the consequences

0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:49.760
<v Speaker 1>of that turned against college and universities because now that

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 1>college and universities are under attack, there are now no

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:59.399
<v Speaker 1>societal foot soldiers to protect them. So if you haven't

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:03.960
<v Speaker 1>a situation like at Columbia where the school itself turns

0:27:04.000 --> 0:27:09.879
<v Speaker 1>against its students to appease outside people, and then it

0:27:10.080 --> 0:27:14.399
<v Speaker 1>further appeases a bully in the form of the federal

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:21.240
<v Speaker 1>administration paying money acquiescing. There is no student protest outcry.

0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:25.280
<v Speaker 1>There's no outcry in other college campuses. And you saw

0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:29.720
<v Speaker 1>during the George Floyd period that there'd be an outcry

0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:31.439
<v Speaker 1>in one part of the country and the rest of

0:27:31.480 --> 0:27:35.000
<v Speaker 1>the country would sort of respond. But we sort of

0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:39.000
<v Speaker 1>taken that out. We demonized the NFL players for protesting

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:44.760
<v Speaker 1>we demonize the basketball players for protesting. And then now

0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>you have a situation where the administration has attacked the

0:27:48.920 --> 0:27:54.480
<v Speaker 1>University of Virginia. It has attacked George Mason University. The

0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:58.119
<v Speaker 1>president of the University of Virginia resigned in order to

0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:02.440
<v Speaker 1>protect the school. And the idea is that the governor

0:28:03.440 --> 0:28:06.480
<v Speaker 1>governing y INCN is going to recommend a president who

0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:10.880
<v Speaker 1>is more ideologically inligned with his thoughts, and he's attempting

0:28:10.920 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 1>to do the same thing with George Mason University, which

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:17.280
<v Speaker 1>is probably one of the most diverse schools in the country,

0:28:17.640 --> 0:28:21.680
<v Speaker 1>and they're using the through line this idea that there's

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:26.000
<v Speaker 1>anti Semitism on George Mason's campus. What's interesting is during

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:30.200
<v Speaker 1>the sort of uprisings and protests that were happening on

0:28:30.240 --> 0:28:35.399
<v Speaker 1>campuses protesting the October seventh conflict in the Middle East,

0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:38.200
<v Speaker 1>George Mason was one of the places where there was

0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:43.440
<v Speaker 1>almost no activity on campus. George Mason has a significant

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 1>population of students from the Middle East, from all of

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:56.640
<v Speaker 1>the Middle East, Egypt, Jordan, Palestine, you name it, Saudi Arabia, Iran,

0:28:57.160 --> 0:29:01.360
<v Speaker 1>you name it. We have a significant population of students

0:29:02.000 --> 0:29:04.720
<v Speaker 1>from who have backgrounds from that part of the world,

0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:08.160
<v Speaker 1>but we didn't have we didn't have protests on campus.

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:14.640
<v Speaker 1>The school's administration kind of discouraged seriously students voicing their

0:29:14.680 --> 0:29:19.560
<v Speaker 1>displeasure with what was happening between the Israeli government and

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:24.040
<v Speaker 1>the residents of Palestine. I think what's interesting is, in turn,

0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:28.760
<v Speaker 1>now that the administration has specifically targeted the president of

0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 1>George Mason University, there's no foot soldiers to protect the president.

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:35.760
<v Speaker 1>There's no foot soldiers to protect the school. There is

0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:39.120
<v Speaker 1>no outcry. There are no parents who can put pressure

0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:44.040
<v Speaker 1>on the governor of Virginia, who can embarrass the administration

0:29:44.760 --> 0:29:47.040
<v Speaker 1>because their kids are putting their lives on the line.

0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 1>If we think back to the protests in Alabama, when

0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:54.959
<v Speaker 1>when young kids were protesting in the streets in Birmingham,

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.040
<v Speaker 1>the parents feeling about that put a lot of pressure

0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.480
<v Speaker 1>on King to make those protests work. There's a lot

0:30:01.480 --> 0:30:03.640
<v Speaker 1>of pressure when kids put their lives on the line.

0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Everybody gets tense. Everybody you have to be careful. You

0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.120
<v Speaker 1>can't if you put hoses on those kids, you are

0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 1>now forever. You're labeled forever because of that. Right, and

0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.120
<v Speaker 1>you're looking at George Mason, there's no protest, there's no

0:30:17.200 --> 0:30:21.040
<v Speaker 1>response from local residents, from students, because I think we've

0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:24.120
<v Speaker 1>demonized protests in a way, and so I think for me,

0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 1>it's a lesson that you have to be careful in

0:30:27.520 --> 0:30:29.800
<v Speaker 1>a space, in this academic space, you have to be

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:33.640
<v Speaker 1>careful in quote unquote punishment, right. I think in this

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.160
<v Speaker 1>case at Morehouse, it's interesting because those students, they were

0:30:36.160 --> 0:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>making phone calls, they destroyed some property. Maybe they should

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:42.160
<v Speaker 1>have been punished for that, but you know, for the

0:30:42.200 --> 0:30:46.560
<v Speaker 1>act of demanding, making these demands that the administration essentially

0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:49.160
<v Speaker 1>not only agreed upon, but the school made those some

0:30:49.240 --> 0:30:52.320
<v Speaker 1>of those changes, and the school became better for it.

0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:55.640
<v Speaker 1>I think there's something to be said about that. I

0:30:55.640 --> 0:31:00.280
<v Speaker 1>think young people are usually right, and those of us

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:02.840
<v Speaker 1>who are not as young as these young people, we

0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:04.840
<v Speaker 1>don't like to listen to them. We get annoyed because

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 1>they want to change things, but they tend to be right.

0:31:08.320 --> 0:31:10.600
<v Speaker 1>They make us uncomfortable. They tend to be right, and

0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:13.800
<v Speaker 1>I think when you stamp that out of them, I

0:31:13.840 --> 0:31:16.760
<v Speaker 1>think society loses a lot. A lot of the changes

0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.680
<v Speaker 1>that have happened in this particular country have happened because

0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:24.400
<v Speaker 1>young people will go to the forefront of these changes.

0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they weren't the ones who enacted the demands, but

0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 1>they see the future and they give of them themselves

0:31:32.880 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 1>and want to make these changes, and they happen. And

0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at the country right now and I'm seeing

0:31:39.840 --> 0:31:43.240
<v Speaker 1>what's happened. It's affecting young people directly, and where's their voice?

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Totally suppressed. It's suppressed. But it's our fault, right we

0:31:49.400 --> 0:31:53.640
<v Speaker 1>demonize young folks for protesting. For the last thirty years,

0:31:53.640 --> 0:32:00.440
<v Speaker 1>we've blunted protests. We've put police forces on campus. We've

0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 1>been punitive when people simply disagree with their administration, when

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:08.520
<v Speaker 1>they say we don't like the leadership. We've been more

0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:12.120
<v Speaker 1>punitive now than we've ever been. At the end of

0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:15.719
<v Speaker 1>the day, these students were expelled that they you know,

0:32:16.080 --> 0:32:18.680
<v Speaker 1>there was a connection between these students and the administration.

0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:21.560
<v Speaker 1>I think we've been more punitive than we've ever been.

0:32:21.760 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 1>And now that there's an attack on higher education from

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:29.640
<v Speaker 1>outside the university system, where are the students to protect

0:32:29.880 --> 0:32:32.960
<v Speaker 1>their schools? Because if the students put theirselves on the line,

0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 1>guess what their parents would be forced in order to

0:32:35.800 --> 0:32:38.080
<v Speaker 1>protect their kids. Their parents would be forced into the

0:32:38.120 --> 0:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>issue and would pre pressure. Even if the parents didn't agree,

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:43.880
<v Speaker 1>they would still want to protect their kids.

0:32:44.440 --> 0:32:44.600
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:32:45.560 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>We've seen that in the past, So I think it's

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 1>a I think it. I think there's a through line

0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:53.600
<v Speaker 1>to be made. I think it's an irony. Imagine if

0:32:53.600 --> 0:32:56.920
<v Speaker 1>we encourage protests. If you knew that when young people

0:32:56.960 --> 0:32:58.680
<v Speaker 1>decide they don't like an issue, they're going to make

0:32:58.680 --> 0:33:00.600
<v Speaker 1>a stink, They're gonna stop spending mone honey, they're gonna

0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:03.400
<v Speaker 1>disruct things on campus, They're gonna they're gonna do this thing.

0:33:04.080 --> 0:33:08.120
<v Speaker 1>I think the attacks on higher education, it would happen differently.

0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:10.560
<v Speaker 4>I guess it would have to.

0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, absolutely, that generational recognition is something that we're missing

0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>fundamentally in this country.

0:33:18.320 --> 0:33:21.440
<v Speaker 4>And Hans, when have college students ever been okay with

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:23.040
<v Speaker 4>war to this degree?

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:26.640
<v Speaker 8>And can you believe these kids aren't for this war?

0:33:26.800 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 8>Who no like yeah, yeah, look history at all.

0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Not only can't they not believe that they disagree, but

0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:36.800
<v Speaker 1>they're like and they're being rude. An entire generation of

0:33:36.920 --> 0:33:42.040
<v Speaker 1>young of college students turn their backs on the armed forces.

0:33:42.720 --> 0:33:45.880
<v Speaker 1>If you served, they had no respect for you, if

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:50.800
<v Speaker 1>he served in Vietnam because they disagreed with war, you

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean, Like like they have always done

0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:56.720
<v Speaker 1>it in the roughest way they could. They they didn't

0:33:56.720 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>lift a finger and punch people. They just said, I

0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:03.120
<v Speaker 1>will not honor you because I know you have blood

0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:05.600
<v Speaker 1>on your hands, even though it wasn't your fault. Right,

0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:11.360
<v Speaker 1>And in some cases they turn those veterans against the country,

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:15.439
<v Speaker 1>against the war, you know, they honored those veterans. I said, yeah,

0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:19.080
<v Speaker 1>you're right, this was wrong. So I'm saying that to say,

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:22.920
<v Speaker 1>of course there's gonna be some rudeness. There's gonna be

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:25.160
<v Speaker 1>some things that are not nice that comes out of

0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:25.960
<v Speaker 1>that discourse.

0:34:26.320 --> 0:34:26.480
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:34:26.760 --> 0:34:29.560
<v Speaker 1>This idea that you can have this discourse but nobody's

0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 1>feelings could be hurt is insane.

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:36.040
<v Speaker 4>And hows that's what's interesting about this episode when you

0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:39.719
<v Speaker 4>listen to all of this, nobody in power is like,

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.359
<v Speaker 4>you know, if these are terrible ideas you see on

0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:47.319
<v Speaker 4>the only real kind of practical resistance is from Daddy King,

0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:51.120
<v Speaker 4>who doesn't want the name, but from our conversation with

0:34:51.400 --> 0:34:54.480
<v Speaker 4>Alvida King, and also just from kind of understanding his

0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:58.680
<v Speaker 4>basic ideas on civil rights, he probably agreed with everything

0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:03.959
<v Speaker 4>else philosophically. Yeah, but what was the issue, how dare you?

0:35:04.719 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 8>How did you like me using you're cussing at us?

0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:10.920
<v Speaker 4>You know, And obviously this whole thing happened at George

0:35:10.920 --> 0:35:13.799
<v Speaker 4>Mason probably hits home for you because you work there.

0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:15.080
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you're on the faculty there.

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:18.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm a tenured faculty member, yes, and I've been there

0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 1>for ten years. And in some ways I've never really

0:35:22.680 --> 0:35:25.839
<v Speaker 1>taken my job as an academic seriously in terms of

0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:29.400
<v Speaker 1>like I don't see the job itself was hallowed. I

0:35:29.440 --> 0:35:32.720
<v Speaker 1>think being and not having an opportunity to influence students

0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>is important, but I think this attack on higher education

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:39.680
<v Speaker 1>is quite fascinating. Like there's a proposal in Texas to

0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:45.440
<v Speaker 1>take away tenure, which is an opportunity to silence voices

0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:49.880
<v Speaker 1>that you don't like. So it's it's interesting and it

0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:53.600
<v Speaker 1>is personal. What is it that doesn't mean for for

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 1>somebody to silence my voice? This podcast could run me

0:35:57.800 --> 0:36:00.799
<v Speaker 1>into some trouble. Some of the film I decide to

0:36:00.880 --> 0:36:03.120
<v Speaker 1>show could run me into some trouble because there's no

0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:07.719
<v Speaker 1>freedom to express my ideas to my students, and there's

0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:10.120
<v Speaker 1>in turn, I think there'll be no freedom for the

0:36:10.120 --> 0:36:13.080
<v Speaker 1>students to disagree with me, right that's the whole point.

0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.719
<v Speaker 1>I get to express ideas, but the students get to

0:36:17.000 --> 0:36:23.880
<v Speaker 1>fundamentally disagree, and that that conflict is what makes learning

0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:28.480
<v Speaker 1>because something happens at the end of that interaction. Something

0:36:28.560 --> 0:36:30.880
<v Speaker 1>happens at the end of that discourse. Men like you

0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:34.680
<v Speaker 1>understand this because you are a frequent lecture at different

0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:39.279
<v Speaker 1>schools and universities. Yeah, certainly you understand this dynamic. So

0:36:39.360 --> 0:36:44.680
<v Speaker 1>the idea that you could intimidate faculty universe by removing

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:50.080
<v Speaker 1>a president under false pretenses, or removing tenure, or removing

0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:55.600
<v Speaker 1>financial support for students in the form of student loans

0:36:55.600 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 1>and grants is It's a very interesting move. And what's

0:37:00.680 --> 0:37:04.200
<v Speaker 1>interesting about this story is that at the end of

0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:09.560
<v Speaker 1>the day, the institution valued the students. It valued this

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:12.680
<v Speaker 1>interaction between itself and the students. It may have not

0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:15.920
<v Speaker 1>liked the way it happened, but it valued it. It

0:37:16.160 --> 0:37:19.640
<v Speaker 1>valued the conflict. And we're approaching a situation in this

0:37:19.719 --> 0:37:23.840
<v Speaker 1>country where we're no longer valuing the conflict, the conflict

0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 1>of ideas, not action, just ideas. I don't like your idea,

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:32.000
<v Speaker 1>therefore I will restrict your right.

0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:34.000
<v Speaker 4>To express it.

0:37:34.000 --> 0:37:36.360
<v Speaker 1>It's a fascinating moment in this country.

0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 4>Next time on the A Building. And that was part

0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:42.799
<v Speaker 4>of the reason that I got expelled from school my

0:37:42.880 --> 0:37:46.080
<v Speaker 4>junior year because when we locked up the board of

0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:51.560
<v Speaker 4>trustees in that building. Wait a minute.

0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:56.080
<v Speaker 1>The A Building is produced by Imagine Audio for iHeart Podcasts.

0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:59.600
<v Speaker 1>It is written and hosted by me Hans Charles and

0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:01.480
<v Speaker 1>my co host Menelike Lamoumba.

0:38:02.280 --> 0:38:05.280
<v Speaker 4>It is executive produced by Karral Welker and Nathan Coloke,

0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:08.120
<v Speaker 4>me Manelike Lamumba and Hans Charles.

0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:13.080
<v Speaker 1>Executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Katrina Norville and Nikki Torre.

0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Marketing lead is David Wasserman.

0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:19.319
<v Speaker 4>It is produced, directed, and edited by Timothy Fernara, with

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:23.680
<v Speaker 4>producer John Asanti, Sound design and music by Alloy.

0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Tracks, and special thanks to April Ryan, Doctor, Elia Davis,

0:38:28.040 --> 0:38:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Kim Feci, Ada, Bobby Know and James Early. If you

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:35.040
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and review The

0:38:35.080 --> 0:38:38.200
<v Speaker 1>A Building on Apple podcast or wherever you get your

0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:41.000
<v Speaker 1>podcast