WEBVTT - S1: Ep 5 - Particular Friendship 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:04.120 Before we start, I want to let you know that 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.600 in this episode we discussed the topic of sexual abuse. Listener, 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:23.960 discretion is advised. I really wanted that life that Jesus 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:30.600 had of really living poverty, chastity, obedience, service. You val 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:35.520 for lot vows of poverty, chest in your obedience, obedience, 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:40.400 and the missionaries of charity have have a fourth foul, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.960 wholehearted and free service to the poorest of the poor. 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.920 Mother Teresa was very concerned about the vow of chastity, 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:56.600 almost to the point of paranoia. You're never supposed to 0:00:56.600 --> 0:01:02.400 get too close to one sister. You were married to 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.520 the crucified Christ. There was so much fear around anything 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:11.040 connected with human connection. How Mistress of Earth, hal heavenly Queen, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:16.720 how virgin of virgins or chasten Serene. You know, there 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:19.600 are some very decent sisters here, and you are the best. 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:25.720 There were regulations against what was termed particular friendship, and 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:30.200 I didn't really catch the subtext at the time. She says, 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.160 you want to get to know me better, and she's 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:40.000 asking about my family. You're going to give up intimate 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:46.640 relationships by a vow of chastity, Yesterdy, you must not 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:55.320 have any particular friendships Rococo Punch and I Heart Radio. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:02:01.600 This is the Turning I America Lands, Part five, particular friendship. 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:21.000 M hm, So I've just gotten into camp and I'm 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.600 heading to I'm not really sure where, because I've spoken 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.560 to a couple of the sisters on the phone, and 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:36.240 the ridiculously vague about where I could learn. The Chevy 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:39.160 such day as a reporter in western India. We hired 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:40.440 her to find a woman who used to be a 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.600 missionary of charity and is still a sister, but with 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.120 a different organization. This woman we're trying to find. I 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.280 called the house where she lives several times before I 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:50.600 got her on the phone, but once I started to 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.560 explain why I was calling, she quickly ended the conversation. 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.160 Now the other sisters in her group don't want to 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.440 tell us anything, even where they're located. They won't tell 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.280 me where I can reach out. They won't tell me 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.440 where I can find her open, they won't give me 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.880 the address of their residents. And whether the order works 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.960 out of the woman Chabby is trying to find is Naobe. 0:03:13.760 --> 0:03:16.799 The Bold Nun transferred to Mary Johnson's convent in Rome. 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.000 The Nun who told Mary I love you. I've got 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:25.400 two envelopes with me. There are two versions of the letter. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:29.000 She has two drafts of a letter for Niobe in 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.920 case Chabby can't actually talk to her. One of them 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.160 is intentionally vague if we have to hand it to 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.000 someone other than Niobe who might read it. The second 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:45.480 letter is more explicit in the allegations, and that what 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:57.440 in an envelope that's a strictly confidential This woman we're 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:00.840 trying to reach Niobe. She first entered Mary Johnson's life. 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:06.640 She walked in with his presence that was so unlike 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.760 what most of the missionaries of charity had, and so 0:04:09.920 --> 0:04:13.040 she caught my attention. Mary was twenty nine years old, 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:16.279 Naobie was thirty nine. Naobe's not her real name, by 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:18.960 the way. At this point Mary had been with the 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.479 MCS for a decade, and for all those years, she'd 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.920 been doing everything she could descend to her life on love. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:27.880 Love was the point. It's why she joined the m 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.600 CS in the first place. It's what she believed people 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.320 needed most. And I think maybe because I had felt 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.320 excluded in many of the different places I was and 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:40.160 while my family was a very loving family, when I 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.080 was growing up, But there wasn't a lot of like 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.880 I love you. There was doing things together, there was 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:48.280 doing things for each other. I had that kind of 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.800 like whole, a little bit like many many people do. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:55.240 I think, you know, we all longed to be loved, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:58.440 to be appreciated, to be seen um and not just 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.320 for the things that we can do, but for who 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.920 we are. Then one day, while Mary hung her close 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.640 to dry now you'll be whispered in her ear, Sister, Donata, 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:15.320 I love you. The clothespin fell for Mary's hand. Does 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.760 she mean like I love you the way I'm supposed 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.520 to love all the sisters Jesus said, love one another 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.080 as I have loved you. No, I don't think that's 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.800 what she means. She's looking at me with this big 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.320 smile in her eyes. I am she's waiting for an answer. 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.720 She's what she do I And she picks up the 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.520 clothespin that I dropped, and her arm brushes my arm, 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:41.120 and I feel like this electric shock kind of thing 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:46.760 going through me. And she goes away, And I'm looking 0:05:47.160 --> 0:05:50.040 all day long at the big blue sky and listening 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:52.880 to the sounds of the birds, and everything feels like 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:59.080 new so you were happy. I was happy. I was confused. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.600 I was happy. I was But you know, what do 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.760 you do the first time somebody says I love you 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:14.080 in a way that sounds romantic and meaningful and personal. Um, 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:24.039 I felt good. One afternoon, the sisters were drinking tea 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.600 and I will Be slightly leaned over and told a 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.360 joke in Mary's ear. When they all stood up to pray, 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.320 the Superior gave Mary a weird look. Now the Superior 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.760 wasn't just any mc. Her name was Sister Joseph Michael. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.440 She was highly ranked in the order and pretty tight 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.520 with Mother Teresa. In fact, Mother Teresa reportedly saw Sister 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:48.240 Joseph Michael as a possible replacement for her one day. Now, 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:51.800 Mary started to worry. Had the Superior seen something between 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:57.000 her and Iobe. Later that afternoon, Sister Joseph Michael called 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.840 Mary to her office. She told her to close the 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:06.240 do or started pacing. Finally, Sister Joseph Michael spoke slowly 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.880 and tentatively. She said she had a special job for Mary. 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:16.160 Revised the constitutions, the mission and guidelines of the Missionaries 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:20.000 of Charity, Mother Teresa's path to Holiness, and I was 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:25.080 so totally floored, because we are always told that the 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.840 constitutions are the voice of God. Mother Teresa had written 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.000 the constitutions. The story goes on her knees by candle light, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.240 after all the other sisters had gone to sleep. Mary's 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.400 job was to update the constitutions to reflect current canon law. 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.160 Cannon law is basically the Catholic Church's internal legal system. 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.920 When a new code of Cannon law is issued, Catholic 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.280 orders review and update their own sets of guidelines. Mary 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.680 was updating the MC guidelines after Pope John Paul the 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.880 Second made revisions in the nineteen eighties. These Cannon law 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.160 updates don't happen very often. Pope Francis just released new 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.600 Cannon law revision and those were the first in nearly 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:07.360 four decades. Every day Mary wheeled a portable typewriter out 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:09.880 into the garden and worked her way through the constitutions. 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.880 A new word here, a new paragraph there. She couldn't 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.880 make big changes, but editing changed her. Maybe this rule 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.600 book was as human as it was divine. If Mary 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.040 could change the wording of the rules, maybe she could 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.280 tweak them in her own life too. This was the 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:30.240 backdrop of Mary's relationship with Niobe. While Mary typed, Niobie 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.719 would peek her head into the garden and say, have 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:38.480 a good day. Sometimes she winked. And when I was 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:43.440 with Naobe, I finally felt myself as lovable and loved. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:47.839 This kind of thing I was trying to do for 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.360 everybody else all the time, to make them feel seen. 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:53.360 This was the center of what I was supposed to 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:56.480 be doing, and for the first time I was feeling 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:01.240 it for myself. In the weeks followed, Mary talked to 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.080 God about her predicament. She also thanked God because Niobe 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:10.040 felt like a gift. How can this not be from God? 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:14.040 If it's making me feel how God wants us to feel. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.280 God wants us to feel loved, How could that not 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:21.599 be from God. As time passed, Niobe got older, she 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.199 dropped the sister and just started calling Mary Donata. She's 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.200 not saying sister, or not to the way we were 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:29.880 always supposed to do. So just dropping that sister was 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:33.520 so intimate. She'd rushed past Mary in the hall, touch 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:37.720 her foot under the table. This made Mary nervous, really nervous. 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.040 There was no privacy in the convent. Everyone knew everyone's business, 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:46.079 but Niobe didn't stop, and Mary didn't stop her. We 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:49.040 would bow down and touch our heads to the floor 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.840 of the chapel. It was a tradition that was adopted 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:58.199 from India, and it was really bad because sometimes she 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:01.760 would get right behind me and as she would grab 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.760 hold of my feet when she'd bow down and again, 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:07.920 it felt kind of delicious, and at the same time, 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.680 if anybody saw that that, that would be a horrible 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:15.719 It could be awful because I had been having this 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.800 crisis of conscience because even though her love felt so 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.800 good and it felt so much like God, and part 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.319 of me believed it was a gift from God, another 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.120 part of me knew it was wrong and that I 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.720 shouldn't be having any sort of special relationship with her sister. 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:33.320 What we were sharing was dangerous and against my vows. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:36.679 And I had actually determined that I was going to 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:44.839 tell her that, but she didn't have the chance. Sister 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:49.600 Naobe came with her own news. Naobe had been instructed 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.400 not to tell anyone, but she was being transferred that 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:58.920 same day. She had a new assignment in Napoli. I 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.839 was so relieved because I had been It kind of 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.839 like solved my problem, even though I knew I was 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:08.160 going to miss her, and all of these different things 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.320 whirling through my head at once. And she comes close 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:14.760 to me and she says, never forget our secret, never 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.480 forget that I love you, And I told her I 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.600 love you too, the last words I said to her 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:31.920 before she left. Mary finished updating the constitutions, but now 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:36.240 she creeped something. Those rules didn't allow something small, even 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.679 just a hand on her arm, you know, even like 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:41.400 the sign of peace at mass, where people would normally 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.480 shake hands, we do that kind of namastay sort of 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.360 thing where you join your hands in front of your 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.920 chest and bow to each other. So really nothing, nothing 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:54.559 as far as touch goes. One day, a van from 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.560 Napoli showed up that the convent with supplies, and when 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.920 Mary went to greet it, Naobe was there and packing 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.720 the boxes. Mary was thrilled. She asked Naobe to come 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.760 inside with her and I said, you know, I've been 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.800 thinking about something and I want to ask you something. 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.839 And she says, sure, ask so well, you hold me, 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.360 she says, hold you. I said, yeah, just just put 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.800 your arms around me for a minute. And she kind 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.720 of looks at the windows and I maneuver us into 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.640 a place where nobody will see us and close a 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.400 couple of blinds. And then she puts her arms around me, 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:30.880 and it feels so good. And she leans over and 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:40.559 she kisses the top of my sorry covered head. I 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.560 could hear her heart beating, I could feel her arms 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:48.880 around me. I just like like everything inside me is melting. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.520 She held me just a second more and then she 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:59.920 went away. Niobe got back in the van and left. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:26.719 It would be three years before Mary saw her again. So, 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.160 like most of you, I used to be a nun. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:35.360 Uh very relatable. That's very relatable. Instand up comedy, to 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:36.800 get up and starts to talk about how you used 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:38.800 to be a nun and I used to been on 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.240 with the outfit and everything. Kelly Dunham followed her calling 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:44.640 all the way from the missionaries of charity to the stage. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.800 So the first question is um oh like the sound 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.760 of music. Uh No, there were less children and matching 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.800 outfits and less Nazis in my story. Kelly lives in Brooklyn. 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.120 She lasted about two years as a sister with the MCS. 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.679 To you her words, she flunked out. She had the 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.240 hardest time with the vow of chastity. Not the sex 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.760 part that wasn't it. It was the way the MCS 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.199 took the vow so far, avoiding all friendship. Initially, the 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.520 Order sounded like a fantasy women working together towards a 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.280 common goal of caring for others. Instead, Kelly says she 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.680 would be asked to leave her humanity behind, but it 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.440 definitely makes for good material. One time, we got up 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.120 in the morning and Sister Malagro told us that if 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:34.280 we really loved Jesus, we would mortify ourselves by going 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:38.320 to the bathroom only once a day. Now, I thought 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.160 she was kidding, so I laughed and said, okay, just 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:50.640 call me Sister Mary bladder infection. She didn't think that 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:56.440 was funny. Kelly joined the Order for idealistic reasons, but 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.320 when she looks back, she knows she was a little 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.520 different from the stereotypical MC. First off, she didn't grow 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:05.080 up Catholic. She was raised as an evangelical Christian. I'm also, 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:06.920 you know, like a very queer person. Even though I 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:08.520 did not know it then, I just knew I didn't 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.040 fit in very well. She first got involved with the 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:15.840 Missionaries of Charity as a volunteer in Haiti. Most aid 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:19.080 organizations and Haiti frustrated her. They didn't seem to give 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.440 Haitian people a voice. But as she saw the MCS 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.360 listened to what locals had to say. She loved how 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.400 the sisters looked in their sories, how they worked so hard, 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:31.360 how strong they were. By that spring, I was in 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.080 love not with like one sister, but like with all 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.760 of them. Before she could join the MCS, she had 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:41.560 to convert to Catholicism. As it turns out, they kind 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.120 of insist on that thing. While Kelly was becoming a Catholic, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.440 she volunteered with the Sisters in Miami, and eventually she 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.520 got word the MCS had accepted her. She would start 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.440 her training in New York. So the Sisters in Miami 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.080 had her over for Tea to say goodbye, and they 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.800 made me this card. You know. I opened it up 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.320 and was like, welcome to your beautiful vocation. And it 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.680 said something like you know, your love of Christ must 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.560 destroy you completely. And then I had like a little 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.280 pictures a little like red drops off the words and 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:13.560 they're like, oh, it's the blood of Jesus. I'm like, wow, 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.960 this is so gruesome. Your love of Christ must destroy 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:20.760 you completely. One of the professed sisters pulled Kelly aside. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.200 She said, if at some point you feel like they're 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.160 really breaking your head, then you just leave, just run 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:32.840 and just go. There's one story from the convent that 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.960 really sticks out to Kelly. It's when her mistress told 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:40.240 over and over again as this inspirational tale. A superior 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:43.320 walks into a chapel of praying sisters and instead of 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.520 saying anything, she writes a message on a chalkboard, please 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.440 pray for the father of Sister Mary whoever he's very ill. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.600 And then that's how she found out that her father 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:57.920 was sick. And then fifteen minutes later the superior came 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:00.520 in um wipe that off the black board and wrote, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:04.320 please pray for the father of sister whoever r I P. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.480 So that's how she found out how her father died, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.040 and the superior didn't say anything else the end. That's 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:16.280 the story that just seems needlessly cruel. And she said 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.240 that sister has really trusted Jesus and really trusted her superior. 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.800 That much like those are the stories you hear when 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.840 somebody wants to like tell you an inspirational story. You know, 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:33.840 that's whacko for inspirational story. In another story from her mistress, 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.560 as sister finds out her entire family was killed in 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.720 the Rwandan Civil War, after a few tears, she never 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.280 mentions it again, and that has held out this kind 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.920 of the gold standard, that she trusted Jesus so much 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.600 that she never had an emotional expression about it after that. 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.920 But I think the mission is a charity, like your feelings. 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.680 We're just supposed to be irrelevant and we're not giving 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.760 you information. There were just things that you pray to 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.720 get rid of them. But people have feelings and the 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:07.119 things actually are information, and it's just so not compatible 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.200 with the way humans are. I'm really good with kids. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.359 It's one of my strengths. This is Mary Anderson, not 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.840 to be confused with Mary Johnson. There are a lot 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:20.000 of Mary's in this story, Like the other Mary, this 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.040 one worked with kids as part of her service work. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.800 And I love them, and I connected with them, and 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.480 I would play with them. And she skipped with them, 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:30.520 and I was told that that was wrong. I wasn't 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.879 conducting myself as a proper nun. And surely Mary the 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:39.800 Mother of God never skipped. And I remember thinking that's rubbish, 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.600 like skipping is joyful, and why should I be, you know, 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.440 having to do penance like kidding ourselves or kneeling on 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:53.440 hard floors or you know, because I was skipping, and 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:57.040 I was just so torn up by those things, and 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.760 yet to be constantly told that, well, you have to 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.359 not trust what you think and shield you have to 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.280 think the way we do, and what you think is 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:10.000 wrong and you're you know, and and so I was 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.879 getting the message over and over you cannot trust what 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.840 you think. Your thoughts are not very good because they're 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:24.520 not right, you know. Not every former MC sister sees 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.680 detachment as a bad thing. Joan Worcester says, it's incredibly valuable. 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:32.000 I think I got a great relationship with God through 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.760 all of this. Even though there was some suffering involved, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:39.000 I feel like it was the best experience of my life. 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.520 The main thing was not having anything. That was tremendous 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:47.760 for me because I have no attachment to anything at 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:49.840 this point in my life. It taught me so much 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:56.720 for detachment, even from objects, from objects, from people. I 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.760 always say this to people, and I think it's hard 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:02.440 for people to understand this. Or I say, I love people. 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.160 I love my husband, I love my children, but I'm 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:10.640 not attached. My life journey is my attachment to God totally. 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:15.560 So while I appreciate and love, I'm just not attached, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.040 if that makes sense, I think. So that's such an 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:25.560 interesting concept for me, and I think I'm probably pretty attached, 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.119 but I can love. The thing about love for me 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.800 is I can love so much more because I'm not attached. 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.760 If I have my husband for as long as I 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:39.120 have him, if he were to die, my life would 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.040 not change. It would change in what I would have 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.359 to deal with, you know, depression or sadness, but it 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.920 wouldn't change my love for him, you know what I'm saying. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.080 So so that way, it's kind of like a for me, 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.080 it's a release of life, but I get to live 0:20:54.160 --> 0:21:00.440 the life. It sounds peaceful it is. But any former 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.400 sisters we spoke to think this forced detachment is crippling. 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.240 They say it's a contradiction to be asked to love 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:11.480 and help others and also remain emotionally distant. They struggled 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.360 with this rule against friendship, or what's called particular friendship, 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.840 which is like kind of the euphemism for like non 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.680 non action, But even when people had kind of platonic friendships, 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.640 they'd often send people away because they just didn't want 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.679 people to be connected to each other. Kelly says, mcs 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.520 weren't just worried about particular friendships. Appearance and demeanor were 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.200 also scrutinized. They have a lot of talk about like 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.679 how our lady was very feminine, you know, they say, like, oh, 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:41.000 our lady, she was a real lady, you know whatever. 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.760 As sisters in Kelly's training class progressed to the next level, 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.800 Kelly says she was held back. The specific problem that 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:50.639 they said that I had was that I had too 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:55.399 much self esteem and insufficient facility. Even when I managed 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.119 to say the right things, they would say that my 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.359 body language was like I walked like my shoulders were angry, 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.080 is how they said it, which, you know, I think 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.159 that could mean a lot of things too, What do 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.960 you mean by that? Like I remember one time she 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:10.280 lent me her prayer book and it had a little 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:12.199 list of the things she was praying about, and one 0:22:12.240 --> 0:22:14.960 of them was me, And she said that I was scary, 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:17.199 and I was like, nobody in my life has ever 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.359 called me scary, But I think that there was something 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:21.920 about me that was maybe threatening to her. Maybe it 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:27.520 was about sexuality, I don't know. All Kelly knew for 0:22:27.600 --> 0:22:31.040 sure was that she was stressed, so stressed that she 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.480 says she got her period for four months straight, which 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.720 I think was my body's way of being like get out, 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:40.240 get out, you know. And we used like non disposable, 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.720 um menstreal stuff, right like really, they just handed us diapers, 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:46.159 you know, like the cloth diapers that we folded up 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:47.879 and then we had to wash them by hand. And 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:51.639 so one day we were cleaning the women's shelter in 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.760 Harlem and there was a tampon sitting on top of 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:57.760 one of the dressers and I was like, I'm gonna 0:22:57.800 --> 0:22:59.920 borrow that, and then I put it in my pocket 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:01.520 and then I was walking away. I was like, I'm 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.879 not gonna borrow it. I'm not giving it back. And 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:05.639 that was kind of the moment where I was like, 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.760 you know, this is not making me a better person, 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.040 Like I don't know who who I am. Maybe you know, 0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:13.800 but I know who I don't want to be, and 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:16.639 that's a person who steals a tampon from a homeless woman. 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.680 And I don't think i've ever been as stressed as 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:24.000 I was in that situation. She had to walk away. 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.679 Kelly turned in her Sorry, it's sad because I did 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:30.640 see sisters, even sisters who seem like they were pretty happy. 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:34.240 And with the life just being destroyed by this constant 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:38.960 need of mistresses and superiors to destroy the bonds between people, 0:23:53.240 --> 0:23:56.439 the advance of human liberty can only strengthen the cause 0:23:56.720 --> 0:24:01.240 of world peace. There is one sign the Soviets can 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:05.159 make that would be unmistakable. In the late nineteen eighties, 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.560 big changes were underway. The world was spinning, the Soviet 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:12.240 Union was reforming. President Ronald Reagan gave a speech in 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:22.000 front of the Berlin Wall. Mr Grabschof teared down this wall. Meanwhile, 0:24:22.160 --> 0:24:25.439 the Missionaries of Charity expanded into the Eastern Bloc. They 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:29.080 opened a mission in Moscow, something unthinkable a few years before. 0:24:31.359 --> 0:24:34.639 Mary Johnson wanted to explore places she'd never been to 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:36.960 be part of the mission out in the world. I 0:24:37.080 --> 0:24:40.920 wanted adventures. I wanted to go places and see things. 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.640 And the constraints that had been placed on me had 0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:47.479 perhaps been done so in a loving manner, but they 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:52.160 were constraints. Nonetheless. She lived mostly in Rome. She studied theology. 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.720 She did some clerical work. She sometimes visited a prison 0:24:56.280 --> 0:25:00.439 or helped at a home for expecting mothers. By ninet ninety, 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.760 she moved up the ladder again. Mary became a mistress 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:06.600 for nuns nearing their final vows, the vows for life. 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:09.200 But when she saw who was on the list of 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:14.920 sisters she'd be responsible for, her heart stopped. Niobe. Never 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:19.960 forget our secret, Never forget that I love you. Mary 0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:23.040 hadn't seen Niobe for three years. Now they'd be living 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.000 under the same roof again, only this time Mary would 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:29.200 be her mistress. That was something I had never envisioned, 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.760 never imagined that Niobe would be someone I would be 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.720 responsible for. And I knew that I was just going 0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:39.720 to have to really make it very very clear to 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:45.520 her that our relationship could not continue as it had. Okay, 0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:49.000 this is getting a little intense. ERCA. I'm gonna just 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:53.679