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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. A lot going down in

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Speaker 1: the Alex mord On trial. This morning. We're on a

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Speaker 1: lunch break, so let's get right down to the nitty gritty.

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Speaker 1: So far, we've lost two girars to COVID. Now, of course,

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Speaker 1: the defense is going to take this opportunity to teach

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Speaker 1: a demand him his trial, or at least a delay.

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Speaker 1: If the judge is smart, he will stick to his

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Speaker 1: guns and pray they don't run out of alternate girars.

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Speaker 1: They've got six of them. Two of those alternates are

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Speaker 1: now on the jury. Six is a good number because

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Speaker 1: typically you don't go past six alternates, and there have

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Speaker 1: been cases, for instance, Scott Peterson case. We lost a

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Speaker 1: lot of girars during that trial. You have to have

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Speaker 1: plenty of alternates. Typically in that jurisdiction, they picked two alternates.

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Speaker 1: Here they've picked six, thank goodness, but two out because

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Speaker 1: of COVID. Let's hope it didn't spread to anyone else.

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Speaker 1: And the Clerk of Courts, a fine lady, is also

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Speaker 1: out with COVID. But that aside, the trial is going forward.

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Speaker 1: We got a bombshell today. It turns out that in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the trial, and I hate when this happens.

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Speaker 1: The state has gotten evidence that they try to get

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Speaker 1: over a year ago about the movements of the car,

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Speaker 1: like the navigation system. Notice, we haven't heard that where

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Speaker 1: you can tell where the car Alex murddog suburban moved

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Speaker 1: the night of the murders. Well, apparently they've got it

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Speaker 1: in now, but is it too late to be allowed

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Speaker 1: into evidence. They're very strict rules about handing scientific data

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Speaker 1: over to the defense in time for the defense expert

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Speaker 1: to review it and prepare a cross examination. That happened

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Speaker 1: because the state has just gotten it. We'll see what

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Speaker 1: happens with that. In the meantime, another bombshell blood found

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Speaker 1: on Alex Murdog's steering wheel of his Chevy Suburban with

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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to try to make sense

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Speaker 1: of what we know right now. First of all, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to go out to Dale Carson, high profile criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorney out of the Jacksonville jurisdiction and also former

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Speaker 1: fed with the FBI as an FBI agent. Listen, this

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Speaker 1: is a big deal for the state. And I know

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Speaker 1: you've tried a lot of cases, Dale, and typically you

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Speaker 1: want to go out with a bang, not a whimper.

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Speaker 1: So I believe that the state is working up to

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Speaker 1: their best evidence. They had to lay a foundation for it.

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Speaker 1: And today we're hearing about blood on Murdog's steering wheel. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Christine in the control room, could you show you know?

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Speaker 1: I love two two videos, especially Dear to my Heart,

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Speaker 1: But this is the one where Murdog, not the two shot,

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Speaker 1: but with Murdog in the vehicle in his white T

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Speaker 1: shirt talking to police the night of the murders. Christine,

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Speaker 1: it's the video's bodycam video everyone has stated so far.

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Speaker 1: There he is nice and fresh and clean, just as

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Speaker 1: fresh as a daisy. Look at him, not even a

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Speaker 1: tiny space. No blood. There's no blood. Oh and he's

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Speaker 1: not crying either. Whoopsie. Okay that aside del Carson. Remember

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Speaker 1: everyone has said he didn't have any blood on him,

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Speaker 1: So how did blood get on the steering wheel of

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Speaker 1: his car? Well, obviously he didn't correctly tell the investigators

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Speaker 1: what truly happened at the events, and why would he.

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Speaker 1: He is innocent until proven guilty, and in a situation

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Speaker 1: like this where all of a sudden there's new evidence

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Speaker 1: about where the car was when it was in park,

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Speaker 1: when the doors were opened, all of those things are

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Speaker 1: now being attempted to be brought into evidence, and that

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Speaker 1: may ultimately prove his downfall because those are fixed items.

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Speaker 1: The steering wheel bloods a fixed item, turning the car

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Speaker 1: on and off, and being in and out of the

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Speaker 1: car as a fixed item, and if it's different from

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Speaker 1: his actual original testimony when it was most fresh in

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Speaker 1: his mind. And that's why we want to interview individuals

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Speaker 1: as quickly as possible and as separately as possible. Add

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Speaker 1: to that the fact that he could also be charged

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Speaker 1: with destruction of evidence because we know he was wearing

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Speaker 1: one shirt when its all began and it seems to

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Speaker 1: have handily disappeared, and his hands are clean when he's

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Speaker 1: filmed giving the interview in the actual squad car. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know what you just said,

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Speaker 1: because what I asked you, you did a really good job.

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Speaker 1: You danced all the way around. My question, my question

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Speaker 1: is how can he explain blood on his steering wheel

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Speaker 1: when his shirt and his hands which we see in

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Speaker 1: the video are clean. Now, wait a minute, you said

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Speaker 1: something about he doesn't want to tell everything up front,

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Speaker 1: or he doesn't Oh, I know what you said. You

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Speaker 1: said he's got the right to remain silent. It's too

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Speaker 1: late for that. He gave a full on explanation the

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Speaker 1: night of the murders to the police. He's locked into

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Speaker 1: that story. Carson. Well, he's got a statement, but that

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Speaker 1: may not be the truth of the matter, obviously. Well,

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Speaker 1: of course it's not the truth of the matter. For

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Speaker 1: Pete's sake. Well, and if you're lying, and it reduces

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Speaker 1: your credibility. If he should take the stand, the jury

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Speaker 1: is certainly going to become aware of that, and they're

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Speaker 1: going to use that to judge. Bill Carson, you just

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Speaker 1: made me laugh for the first time today. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: If he takes a stand, there is no way in

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Speaker 1: heble help me out. Chris mcdonna, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: planet Carson is beaming down from right now. Number one,

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Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnald, let me introduce him Director Cold Case Foundation,

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Speaker 1: former homicide detective. That's part I like the best host

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Speaker 1: of a YouTube channel which I like a lot. The

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Speaker 1: interview room and you can find him at Coldcase Foundation

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Speaker 1: dot org. Okay, Chris, I'm gonna start over with you.

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Speaker 1: Don't make me spank you, because I will. I will.

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Speaker 1: How can he explain blood on his steering wheel. So, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: what's the old saying? The devil's in the details. The

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Speaker 1: only way you can explain that is if you've come

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Speaker 1: in contact with that blood somewhere around that crime sheen,

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Speaker 1: and how it gets there, that's up to him to

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Speaker 1: the defense to explain Lane, you know, how it got there.

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Speaker 1: There is one part in the nine one one call

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Speaker 1: where you can hear in the background a car the vehicle. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so it's if that's the link to this that

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Speaker 1: the prosecution sounds like they're connecting the dots here. The

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Speaker 1: defense has got, you know, quite a run to go

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Speaker 1: at to say that it was you know, put there

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Speaker 1: by some other dude. Well, they're either going to have

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Speaker 1: to say that, or they'll have to say somehow they've

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Speaker 1: got to explain with a straight face how he managed

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Speaker 1: to get clean clothes and clean hands. But somehow he's

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Speaker 1: going to have to explain getting back to the car

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Speaker 1: and getting either Paul or Maggie's or both of their

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Speaker 1: blood on his steering wheel, because that's where it's going. Hey, Christine,

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Speaker 1: do we have the new bodycam video from the night

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Speaker 1: of the murders where they have murdi raised his shirt

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Speaker 1: up and they're looking at here to make sure he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a Oh great, guys, I want you to

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Speaker 1: see the v oh, here we go, Here we go,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, they're coming to the scene. They're looking around.

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Speaker 1: It's pitch dark. There's a murlog talking. They're shining a

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Speaker 1: light on his waist right there to make sure he

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a gun stuck in his pants. Um, can

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Speaker 1: you play it with a sound, Christine? Okay, let's hear you, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing it. Secure. Got a whiskey, flocks, whiskey, MinC

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Speaker 1: both the gunch I wounds to the head. I want

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Speaker 1: you to let you know because of the scene I do.

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Speaker 1: I did go get a gun and bring it down

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Speaker 1: here in your vehicle. I just have any guns on

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Speaker 1: you leaning up against the side of my car. You're

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Speaker 1: you're fine, man, you're fine. Turn around for me. I

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Speaker 1: don't have anything. Okay, yes, sir, I see that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is your wife and son. Okay, it's bang. It's

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Speaker 1: a bad chicken. The pulls, yes, sir. Okay. Um. The

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Speaker 1: behavior he's exhibiting right there, he's got a completely straight face.

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Speaker 1: He's speaking coherently. Hey, Kristin, could you play that one

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Speaker 1: one more time? And then later I'll go to our

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Speaker 1: cuddle leven. Could we hear ten one more time? I

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Speaker 1: want to make sure I heard it all. I've seen

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Speaker 1: it secure, had a whiskey, fox, whiskey MinC both gunch

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Speaker 1: I wounds to the head. I want you to let

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Speaker 1: you know because of the scene I do, I did

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Speaker 1: go get a gun and bring it down here in

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Speaker 1: your vehicle. I just have any guns on you leaning

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Speaker 1: up against the side of my car. You're you're fine, man,

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Speaker 1: You're fine. Turn around for me. Okay, yes, sir, I

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Speaker 1: see that. Okay, this is your wife and so okay

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Speaker 1: it's bangs bad. Check yes, sir, oh Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I want to let you know because of

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Speaker 1: the scene I do. I did go get a gun

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Speaker 1: and bring it down here in your vehicle. I just

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Speaker 1: you have any guns on you? Eat no leaning up

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Speaker 1: against the side of my car. You're you're fine, man,

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Speaker 1: you're fine. Car around for me. I don't have anything. Okay, Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: I see that. Okay, this is your wife and so okay,

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Speaker 1: it's bad. It's bad. I've checked the pulch. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: I want to go to new doctor Michelle Dupree joining

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Speaker 1: me pathologist, medical examiner for more, detective and author of

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Speaker 1: homicide Investigation Field Guide, and she is there on location

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Speaker 1: in South Carolina. You can find her at d Michelle

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Speaker 1: Duprie MD dot com. Doctor dupre thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Did you notice, doctor that he wasn't crying

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Speaker 1: at all, that he was speaking perfectly coherently, And I've

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Speaker 1: written down what he says. He says, Sir, I want

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Speaker 1: to let you know that because of the scene I do.

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Speaker 1: I did go get a gun and bring it down here.

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Speaker 1: And then he goes is leaning up against the side

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Speaker 1: of my car, and he goes, I don't have anything,

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Speaker 1: And then and only then does he go a little sniffy.

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Speaker 1: Right there, he is perfectly coherent, Doctor Duprie, Yes, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: he is. He seems very calm. I also noticed that

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Speaker 1: he folds his arms across his chest in a very

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Speaker 1: what I would consider defensive posture. This to me is

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Speaker 1: not like someone who is just witness say horrific um,

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Speaker 1: seen his beloved wife and son um. I think this

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Speaker 1: is unusual. Yeah, oh oh, that's really good. Is that

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Speaker 1: you Carson jump in del Carson, Come on, you would

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Speaker 1: never say that, not in that situation. The word scene

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Speaker 1: is something that talks to exactly what it is in reality.

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Speaker 1: It's a scene. It's been created. But who created it? Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's really insightful. Actually, I was all ready to fight

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Speaker 1: with you, but you're right. You're absolutely right. Now, Hey, Christine,

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Speaker 1: let's play cut eleven more of the body Camp video.

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Speaker 1: They are dead, Yes, sir, that's what That's what it

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Speaker 1: looks all. When was the last time you were here

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Speaker 1: with them or talk to them or anything like that. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was earlier tonight. I don't know the exact time,

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Speaker 1: but okay, I left. I was probably gone an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half for my mom's and I saught him

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Speaker 1: about forty five minutes before that. There, he goes, Man,

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Speaker 1: he's got that time, his timeline in his own head,

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Speaker 1: even though it's not borne out by the facts. Did

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Speaker 1: you hear that, Chris mcdonnaugh, He says an hour and

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Speaker 1: a half. He's sticking to that. He was at his

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Speaker 1: mom The story he was at his mom's for an

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Speaker 1: extended period of time. It's about a twenty minute drive there,

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Speaker 1: it's about a twenty minute drive back, and he is

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Speaker 1: trying to account for ninety minutes. So he's saying he

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Speaker 1: was at his mom's fifty minutes. That's not what happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And there's a couple other things going on here, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: The fact that when he's asked that question, notice he

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Speaker 1: turns away from that officer, and then it kind of

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Speaker 1: buys him a moment to think through what his response

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Speaker 1: is going to be. And and and mind you remember

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Speaker 1: in front of him is his deceased wife and his

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Speaker 1: deceased son, and he's walking back on the telephone calling

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Speaker 1: and speaking with somebody show in the business we would

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Speaker 1: call this does not look right, DLR. Well, it also

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Speaker 1: is what you did not look right? D l R.

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Speaker 1: Hey Dale, Carson Dale. Let's watch it again together, Chris, say,

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Speaker 1: could you play that again? Because now that now that

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Speaker 1: Chris has pointed it out, he does turn away from

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Speaker 1: the question. He's absolutely correct. Let's take another listen, Well

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Speaker 1: check they are dead, Yes, sir, that's what That's what

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Speaker 1: it looks Green. Call this head. When was the last

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Speaker 1: time you were here with them or talk to them

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. Um, it was earlier tonight. I

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Speaker 1: don't know the exact time, but Okay, I left. I

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Speaker 1: was probably gone an hour and a half for my

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Speaker 1: mom's and I saw him about forty five minutes before that. Okay.

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Speaker 1: You know what's interesting When I look at a witness

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Speaker 1: to determine if they're lying, you will notice that they

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Speaker 1: either blink a lot, or they look away, they pause,

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Speaker 1: they fidget with something in order to call themselves to

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Speaker 1: continue with their lie. That they may be fabricating right

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Speaker 1: then and there. And that's exactly what Chris mcdonnoh pointed out.

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Speaker 1: What about it? Del Carson? All right, well, that's certainly true.

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Speaker 1: But what I listened to is his words and one

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Speaker 1: of the questions he says, are they dead? Well, that's

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Speaker 1: not what you would routine? You would and can you help?

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Speaker 1: Here's there's the ambulance on the way. I mean, can

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Speaker 1: you really believe that that's how you would approach that

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Speaker 1: situation and and deubscribe your son and your wife as

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Speaker 1: te y No, Now that doesn't smell right. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're looking at bodycam video that the jury has just

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Speaker 1: seen a lot going down in the courtroom right now,

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Speaker 1: very telling the way he behaves Christine, one more time,

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Speaker 1: can I see that last bit of videotape. You played

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Speaker 1: the bodycam. They are dead, Yes, sir, that's what That's

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Speaker 1: what it looks like. When was the last time you

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Speaker 1: were here with them or talk to them or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. Um, it was earlier tonight. I don't know

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Speaker 1: the exact time, but okay, I left. I was probably

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Speaker 1: gone an hour and a half for my mom's and

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Speaker 1: I saught him about forty five minutes before that. Now

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Speaker 1: the jury has seen this in the last couple of days,

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Speaker 1: and we have been wrangling with authorities to get our

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Speaker 1: mits on it. We finally did. I also notice again,

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree, that he is perfectly coherent when he

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Speaker 1: is spouting off his timeline and other coajing facts. But

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Speaker 1: then every once in a while you'll hear a little

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Speaker 1: wine or a little that, But he is not showing

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Speaker 1: any indication that he is bereft. That's true, Nancy. And

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Speaker 1: also when he's in the car being interviewed, he is

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Speaker 1: very calculating. He to me, he is thinking of all

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Speaker 1: of his wards before he says them. He's very slow.

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Speaker 1: He's thinking about what he's going to say before he answers.

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Speaker 1: I think this is tell teller. If you did something

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Speaker 1: like this, would you try to disassociate from it in

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Speaker 1: order to explain it, so you are emotionally not connected

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Speaker 1: to it, and that would explain why he is simply

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Speaker 1: so the disassociation allows him to call the killing of

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Speaker 1: his wife and his son a scene instead of this

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Speaker 1: horrible circumstance. So he's living in two separate worlds, absolutely

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Speaker 1: living in two separate worlds. I'm wondering how Murdoch has

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Speaker 1: been behaving in court and where his family is sitting. Now, guys,

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Speaker 1: we've just shown you body Kim video that the jury

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Speaker 1: has already seen, and now two alternates have taken the

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Speaker 1: place of other gars. We are also learning and this

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Speaker 1: is where you come in, Giovanni Masuchi, joining US senior

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Speaker 1: and digital forensic examiner over thirty five years by the

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Speaker 1: way of expertise in this field, we are learning that

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Speaker 1: the state is just now getting navigational data to show

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Speaker 1: where the car went and when, what could possibly have

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Speaker 1: taken so long? Whilst we heard thinks Nancy or we

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Speaker 1: heard from the FBI technician that the data entertainment system,

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Speaker 1: he said, and it was first time he's ever seen

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Speaker 1: that it was encrypted. That being the case, they also

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Speaker 1: took over a year to come up with their own

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Speaker 1: software program to try to break that encryption and get

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Speaker 1: the data out, and so it took them a long time. Now,

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Speaker 1: obviously they're putting in a format that's readable that they

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Speaker 1: can utilize in core, and so it may have taken

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Speaker 1: an extra time to get it to the state prosecution

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Speaker 1: to go ahead and start presenting it. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to figure out what they're really going to

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Speaker 1: be able to prove with it. Giovanni Masucchi, what do

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Speaker 1: you believe the state will be able to show? What's

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Speaker 1: the point of bringing it in? Now? Well, let's think

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Speaker 1: about this. Remember they said that the phone was thrown

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Speaker 1: from a vehicle, right, What do we see that they uncovered?

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Speaker 1: Is that the the the federal examiner, he could tell

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Speaker 1: when the windows were raised and lowered. To me, that's important.

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Speaker 1: When were they raised and lowered? Do we have date?

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Speaker 1: We don't have any date. Do we have a date

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Speaker 1: that has not been brought into court. I'm curious to

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Speaker 1: see if they're going to come up with any date,

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Speaker 1: you know, time exactly when that was raised and lower

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Speaker 1: was it in that time frame? Right? So that to

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Speaker 1: me is important. The other thing is that you know,

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Speaker 1: you have times he says it was gone for an

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Speaker 1: hour and a half and you know they've received calls

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Speaker 1: from they said that in another part between nine oh

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Speaker 1: six and ten thirteen. Quite interesting, and they don't know

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Speaker 1: if it was in motion or not. That's fine, but

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Speaker 1: was he starting and stopping? You know, what was the

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Speaker 1: process or you know, as the state, you know, when

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Speaker 1: he gets on the standing, they're going to grill him

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Speaker 1: on this. You know, where did he stop? Why did

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Speaker 1: he stop? And so this is going to be interesting,

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Speaker 1: especially that they did bring in cell tower analysis that

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Speaker 1: they did. Honestly, they may be able to bring in

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Speaker 1: bluetooth information too when it connected to the car's bluetooth

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Speaker 1: to his phone, and that would demonstrate an absolutely positive

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Speaker 1: time that he was not where he said he was right,

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Speaker 1: And they did grab a bluetooth information which showed the

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Speaker 1: two calls and made around ten or six, So that'd

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Speaker 1: be interesting. See exactly. I mean they couldn't get all

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Speaker 1: the data that they wanted because they didn't even come

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Speaker 1: up with GPS data, so they had to rely on

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Speaker 1: cell tower information as well from the carrier. But if

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Speaker 1: his cell phone linked up to a WiFi at the property,

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Speaker 1: which certainly there is a WiFi at the property. They

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Speaker 1: should be able to determine precisely what time he was

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Speaker 1: at the property and when he left, right if it

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Speaker 1: was connected to At the very best case scenario, Giovanni Massuchi,

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Speaker 1: what will the state be able to prove with the

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Speaker 1: new that he was in the area, that he actually

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Speaker 1: was in the area, and that he wasn't telling the

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Speaker 1: We already know that. We know he was in the

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Speaker 1: area because it's on a video taken by Paul. We

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Speaker 1: hear his voice, We know he was there. So how

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Speaker 1: is this going to help the state? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think I know the answer, but you're the expert, So

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Speaker 1: I'm asking you. Do you believe I believe they'd lie.

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Speaker 1: For sure, he definitely lied. Okay, this is what I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to show. I believe that the new

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Speaker 1: evidence I'm going out on a lamb here, is going

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Speaker 1: to show exactly where the car went, at what time,

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Speaker 1: how long the car was in park at his mother's house.

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Speaker 1: We know he was there because their caretaker said so,

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Speaker 1: how long he was there and when he came back.

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Speaker 1: That is what I think the new evidence is going

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Speaker 1: to show, and as Giovanni just told us, it may

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Speaker 1: very well show if he slowed down to throw something

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Speaker 1: out of the car, if the windows went down along

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Speaker 1: the way in his ride to his mother's home, if

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Speaker 1: he detoured somewhere to bury the items or to get

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Speaker 1: rid of his bloody clothing that could be extrapolated from

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Speaker 1: those stops, or the windows going up and down. That's

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Speaker 1: what I think they're bringing it into show now. Interestingly, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm hearing in my ear. I've got An Emerson joining

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Speaker 1: us straight out of the courtroom, senior investigative reporter with

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Speaker 1: WCIV ABC and the creator of Unsolved South Carolina, The Murder, Murders,

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Speaker 1: Money and Mystery, a daily podcast, and thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Tell me first of all about the evidence

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Speaker 1: that the state is trying to bring in. Who will

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Speaker 1: help what is it? Well, they're working really hard right

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Speaker 1: now at trying to bring in all of this DNA

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Speaker 1: swabs that they took, and really what we're getting to

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Speaker 1: the bottom of ish who was actually what they're able

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Speaker 1: to get out of this DNA is who they can't

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Speaker 1: exclude right So, right now they're able to go over

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Speaker 1: all of the different things that they've been testing from

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Speaker 1: his shirt to the defendant shirt to his shorts. They're

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Speaker 1: looking at the car, they're looking at the steering wheel,

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Speaker 1: they're looking for places that they need to test for

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Speaker 1: DNA in order to exclude other people and whoever they

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Speaker 1: need to include. And right now, what we've heard over

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Speaker 1: and over again from this DNA testing that was done

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Speaker 1: the forensics is we are able to include Maggie and Paul,

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Speaker 1: of course, but also Alec at several of these points

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Speaker 1: that they've tested, but not anyone else. So that's what

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Speaker 1: we're hearing really through this testimony, and it is really,

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Speaker 1: as you know, really long. They have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they go through every single thing, They dot every eye,

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Speaker 1: they cross, every team because they want the jury to

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Speaker 1: know that they've done absolutely everything to exclude other possible suspects.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's really the crux of what we're

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Speaker 1: looking at right now. Some of the really interesting things

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Speaker 1: that have come out is that they've been able to

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Speaker 1: look at One of the things that pointed out was

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Speaker 1: one of the things that they don't they did not find,

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Speaker 1: and that was that raincoat that we've talked about so much,

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Speaker 1: that raincoat that ended up at the mom's house. That raincoat,

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Speaker 1: according to these forensic experts, did not have any blood

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Speaker 1: on it. And Emerson, you're saying the shirt is positive

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Speaker 1: for Paul and Maggie's DNA. Would that be from blood?

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Speaker 1: Right now? They're saying that Paul's, Yes, Paul's Palmer Duck's

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Speaker 1: DNA that would be from a blood test that they

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Speaker 1: did would have been found on the shirt. They were

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Speaker 1: also looking at Maggie's blood on that shirt, and that

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Speaker 1: Alec contributed to that shirt as well, of course because

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Speaker 1: he's wearing the T shirt right, So yes, they they're

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Speaker 1: talking about where they found paul blood. There's tenie, twelve

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Speaker 1: boys that they're looking at on that T shirt. So

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Speaker 1: it's Paul and Maggie's blood, not touch DNA. Correct From

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Speaker 1: what I understand, they did the blood tests and now

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Speaker 1: they've gone back in and done DNA tests to be

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Speaker 1: able to provide more more conclusive evidence of who they

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Speaker 1: are who they're finding on that T shirt. Okay, what

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Speaker 1: we were talking about when you first came out is

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Speaker 1: the car data that the state apparently has just gotten.

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Speaker 1: That is the data we're discussing. What do you believe

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Speaker 1: it is and what do you believe it will show. Well,

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Speaker 1: what I'm hearing is that this is GPS points and

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking this is already what you were going through

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Speaker 1: is I was running down the steps out of the

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Speaker 1: courthouse today, was that there is all of this new

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Speaker 1: information coming out of the stair on Star that GM

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Speaker 1: wants to provide for this trial. They've been watching it

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Speaker 1: along with everybody else, and when they heard that it

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Speaker 1: took a year to open this up and be able

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Speaker 1: to look and unlock some of this data, they were like,

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Speaker 1: hold on, we have a lot more for you now.

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Speaker 1: What the defense and the prosecution is saying is that

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Speaker 1: this is really interesting data points for both of us

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Speaker 1: and we really need to go through it. The defense

426
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: only got a hold of these this GPS information as

427
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: of Saturday, so they've got, they said, massive amount of

428
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: data that they need to go through. So we're waiting

429
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: to see if this somehow is going to create any

430
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: kind of delay as we as we start going forward,

431
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: and Nancy, I think that did I want to jump

432
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: in here for a second if you don't mind. So

433
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,360
Speaker 1: I also don't want to forget that we have testimony

434
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: from Shelley Smith, who remember he shows up that night

435
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: and tries to convince her that his timeline is at

436
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 1: least thirty to forty minutes different than what she testified too,

437
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: of being about fifteen or twenty minutes. That car data

438
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: that they've just received will also substantiate, you know, what

439
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: the correct timeline is to your point earlier that he

440
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: did go over to his mother's house at that point.

441
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: But remember he was trying to influence her to change

442
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: her story because he probably knew that data was going

443
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: to be an issue. You know, another issue about this

444
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: GPS data coming in right now, The defense could move

445
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: to have it excluded because it was not handed over

446
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: ahead of time. The state could then argue back, this

447
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: is legal strategy that it is newly discovered evidence. If

448
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: they can show they just got it. When you get

449
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: newly discovered evidence, you can bring that into trial over

450
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: the defense's objection. You can't have evidence and you just

451
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: sit on it, not hand it over, and then jump

452
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: up in claim it's newly discovered. But if it truly

453
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: is newly discovered, the judge can let it in right now.

454
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: As I understand it, in Emerson, the defense is not

455
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: trying to exclude it. They in fact want to study it.

456
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: And see if it can help them as well. Absolutely, Nancy,

457
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head. I mean, that's

458
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: exactly what they were saying this morning. Those were the

459
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: words they were using. You're in the head of what's

460
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: happening with the state, I think. I mean, they were saying,

461
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 1: this is newly discovered evidence. This is stuff that we

462
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: didn't know about, and we wouldn't have known about if this,

463
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, the people that were running this on store

464
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: system came forward and told us what was happening. So

465
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: it's really interesting too the way the defense is handling it.

466
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: Rather than saying, hold on, this is totally out of order,

467
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: you know, concerned, they're like, bring it, we want to

468
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: see what it is. Absolutely, we believe that this is

469
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: just going to solidify our case as well. So it

470
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: was it was a moment though, because you could also see, like,

471
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: you know, just last week the defense was calling for

472
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: a mistrial, you know, which was extraordinary, you know last

473
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: week when that happened, and with all of these things

474
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: that are happening right now, we've got a couple of

475
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: jurors that are now out with COVID, there's this concern

476
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: we've got a mass mandate in that courtroom. Now you've

477
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: got that concern, and then you've got this newly discovered evidence.

478
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: You would think that the defense strategy and tell me

479
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but that the defense strategy would be

480
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: looking at Oh, well, here's an opportunity for us to

481
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: seriously slow down this trial. No, they're like, let's see

482
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: the evidence. We're going to try and look at it

483
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: as quickly as we can. But we're still We're still

484
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: in the game, is what I'm getting from it. Guys,

485
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: I want you to hear go ahead, go ahead, Nancy.

486
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: I believe that if after day get their own expert

487
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: to look at the data, and if approves that it

488
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: will go against your client, that they'll act to try

489
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: to get suppressed. But because the OnStar is going to

490
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: show breadcrumbs that's going to give you some really detailed

491
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: data on the movement of that vehicle, it's gonna take

492
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: it's gonna take days for them to analyze it, which

493
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: they will have. You know, I don't know why the

494
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: lawyers don't think they can work overtime after the jury

495
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 1: goes home. We should not be having any hearings or

496
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: any work done on the jury's time. The lawyers need

497
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: to stay late. I'm in over the weekend to do

498
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: that work, so the jury is not held up. Guys,

499
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: I want you to hear. And again this is where

500
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: our experts coming in today. Having it's about phone pings

501
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: and our cut one and two. Um, we haven't heard

502
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: a lot about the pinging, but we are now take

503
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: a listen. First of all, regarding Maggie and Paul's last

504
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: phone pings and our cut one. This is eight o

505
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: four to eight o five pm. Okay, And so now

506
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: we're seeing some some hits across this Moselle Road. Correct,

507
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: that's correct. So eight six twenty it's uh here on

508
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: near Moselle Road, just north of the driveway, and from

509
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: there it moves towards the dog kennel or the hangar,

510
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: then kind of up the driveway and then finally winding

511
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: up back at the house at about eight zero seven.

512
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: Where do we see that phone starting there's a six

513
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: meter hit at right around the doll house. Now we're

514
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: gonna move on to Magnie's about four twenty five pm

515
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: and then ending at about seven o five pm. The

516
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: phone's generally in this west actually area. And then we

517
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: see a series of hits with Magna smone. These start

518
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: at what time? They started seven h seven and end

519
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 1: at seventy fifty which a traveling from the Charleston area

520
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: west towards um Mozelle or Elmdol. Here we have a

521
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: hit seven fifty pm fifty twenty pm correct yesterday? All right?

522
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: And where is this? That's a right in multiborough? Actually

523
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: right here? Did you get any more tower information off

524
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: on MAGNAE sphones with the rest of the even that

525
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: seven to fifty pm was the last tower hit I received.

526
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: That was on Maggie's phone. Seven fifty pm is the

527
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: last tower hit that the expert received. Now that was

528
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: about Paul and Maggie's phones. Now take a listen. This

529
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: is critical to the eight phone payings from Alex Murdog's

530
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: phone that night. Our cut to Christine. We're looking at

531
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: who we're looking at Alex Funny. Here we have a

532
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: number of calls between six forty and nine ten pm,

533
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: and they're all using tower one five nine two sixty three.

534
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: And that's that's the one shown which faces an orphan

535
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: is consistent. We're being in the area of the Mozelle

536
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: propertys Now, we're looking at nine twelve to nine eighteen,

537
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: and in the nine twelve phone record, where does Alex's

538
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: cell phone sector uses Sector three on tower one five

539
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: nine two sixty three, which is the one closest to Mozelle,

540
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: so somewhere south we're close to the border of this tower. Yes,

541
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: And then nine eighteen pm we see ping off this tower. Correct, Yes,

542
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: off of one five nine two one seven, which is

543
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: closer to Von nine twenty. From nine twenty to nine

544
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: forty six, there's a handful of calls, all using tower

545
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: one five nine two one seven, but using sector two

546
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: that kind of faces towards the Almida address. And there's

547
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: also one RTT HIT two at nine thirty four at

548
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: about two point zero nine miles, which is consistent with

549
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: being in the area of the Almida residents. If you

550
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: like data and you like trial work, this is a

551
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: symphony to your ears. And Emerson WCIV and host of

552
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 1: a hit podcast called Unsolved South Carolina. Then Mardik, Martyrs,

553
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: Money and Mystery, explain what we just heard. Well, what

554
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: it's doing really is, it's it's tracking h Alec Mardock's

555
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: movements and Hit and Maggie's were now getting a very

556
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: clear idea of the timeline. Once again, they're just narrowing

557
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: it and narrowing it. I bet they're now going to

558
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: be able to take these GPS points that we're going

559
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: to be learning about that have just been unlocked from

560
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: that on Star system. I'm thinking that this is going

561
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: to play right into where we saw these pings. Now

562
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: the pains are really important as far as his cell

563
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: phone towers, because they're going to have to start following

564
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: him where he's going and when he's getting there. So

565
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: this is really going to be an enormous part of

566
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: the state's case as far as to be able to

567
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: track exactly where he says he was and where you're

568
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: able to show where he was because you know the

569
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: eye and this guy never lies. Hey, Christine, could you

570
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: back it up to that first graph you were showing

571
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: about Murdoch's phone pinging because it's placing him between Moselle

572
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: and Alameda, where his mother lives. Okay, till nine till

573
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: nine ten pm. His calls are near Moselle, same tower,

574
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen pings near Moselle, then suddenly nine twenty

575
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: to ninety six pings near Almina, and that's almost exactly

576
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: what the housekeeper says that he came in. He was

577
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: there about twenty minutes and left. Then from nine forty

578
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: six near Almeda, we see him traveling at nine fifty two.

579
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: Right at nine fifty three between Almeda and Moseelle. Ten

580
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: h six, he calls nine one one at Moselle at Mozelle. Now,

581
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: I guarantee you del Carson, your veteran trial lawyer. The

582
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: jury is going to have this and go through it

583
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb when they get in the

584
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: Gerard deliberation room. But it's on the state to make

585
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: it as clear as Christine and the New York Control

586
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: Room just made it. And what they're going to have

587
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: to do deal is they're gonna have to overlay, overlay, overlay,

588
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: They're gonna have to put the pings, they're gonna have

589
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: to put the GPS tracking data. They're going to have

590
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: to put all of those cell phone calls and texts

591
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: in there to basically put him at the scene at

592
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: the time of the murders. That's a lot of evidence.

593
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 1: Well it is, but it's easily expressed on a whiteboard

594
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: where you get take and show the pattern, and you

595
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: can show that it's all connected and that the initial

596
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: interview of Alex was incorrect and therefore not accurate, because

597
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 1: he's defending against what he was actually engaged in, which

598
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: is of course slaughtering his son and his wife. And

599
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 1: although he's got the opportunity to defend himself, and we've

600
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: yet to hear his side, he's not yet been convicted,

601
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: but it's likely if the jurors can follow that pattern

602
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: that's drawn out for them about pings and where they

603
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: were at what time, in addition to the information brought

604
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: out by GM from their on start tracking system, he's

605
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: likely to end up in a convicted situation. Did Giovanni

606
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 1: Masuchi joining US senior Digital forensic examiner, Giovanni, I'm so

607
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: glad you're with us today to make sense of all

608
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 1: of the technological data. But I remember one of my

609
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: favorite props I used in closing arguments was a big jar,

610
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: a clear jar of muddy water. And when I did

611
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 1: my closing argument, I would start off and then I

612
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: would address what the defense had said, and I'd shake

613
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: it and it would get all cloudy. You couldn't see

614
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 1: into the jar, and I would set it down on

615
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: the state's table and finish my closing argument outlining the

616
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: state's case and attacking the defense case. And by the

617
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: time I finished one hour later, the jar was clear again.

618
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: So my question to you is, Giovanni, how all the

619
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: defense try to muddy the water on the paying the

620
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: cell phone paying data. Well, they may take into account

621
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: if there was any man made interference or if there

622
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: was any natural impediments and if the because what happens

623
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: is is that they're going to try to take it apart.

624
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: I don't see how they're going to do it, only

625
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: because you know, when they're doing cell tower tranulations, they've

626
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: got the data from the mobile carriers and the towers

627
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: and the sectors, because there's three sectors on a tower,

628
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 1: and so we see where the pains were hitting, all

629
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: in the location of where the crime crime seen the crime.

630
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: And so I think it's gonna be difficult for them

631
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: to take that apart and saying well, you know, why

632
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: did it go to this tower? And you know, I

633
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: think it's you know, because it can travel from tower

634
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: to tower if there's track there, if there's natural impediments.

635
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,959
Speaker 1: But I think the state has a really good case,

636
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: as far as showing the pains and adding the GPS

637
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: data and all the other data that have and putting

638
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: it on a whiteboard. I've been on another murdered trial

639
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: for the prosecution where they had to do this. I

640
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: had to back up the FBI cast folks that were

641
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: doing analysis, and I did the phones, and we took

642
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: all the data and when you put it on whiteboards

643
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: and showed the travel of the suspect that committed the crime,

644
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 1: and I think this is going to be awesome for

645
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: the jury to see in such a basic terminology, not

646
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: to overpower them, let's put it that way. Well, and

647
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: this is rural, so there's use of the cell phone

648
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: towers is quite limited and more exact than in an

649
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: urban setting. Sure. Sure, Interesting, Interesting that you said that,

650
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: because I believe that the FBI and others can narrow

651
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 1: down cell phone pings within you know, one hundred feet.

652
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: It can be done. I think the way the defense

653
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: is going to try and muddy the water and the

654
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: state needs to anticipate this. I'm sure they have and

655
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,879
Speaker 1: be ready to shoot it down before it hits its mark.

656
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: That being the jury, they're going to argue, oh hey, hey,

657
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: cell phone pings off towers. Is not an exact science,

658
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, Mozelle Almeda. They're fairly close together. We're not

659
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: sure exactly where the pings. If the pains can identify

660
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: where Murdoch was at that moment, that's what they're going

661
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: to do, and the state has got to be ready

662
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: for that. That's exactly what they're going now. I want

663
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: to circle back to DNA. I want you to take

664
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: a listen. We're talking about the steering wheel first and

665
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: our cut six. They are all swabs that were taken

666
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 1: from the Chevy suburban. So it appears that these swabs

667
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: were collected because they were blue Star positive, which to

668
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: my understanding is a presumptive test you by the crime

669
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: scene unit to indicate areas of possible blood stating. Since

670
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: they were already presumptively tested, I used the confirmatory test

671
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: to test these swabs for the presence of blood. So

672
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: SLOOD items fifty one through fifty five, and fifty seven

673
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: through sixty we're all negative with that testing, which means

674
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: there's no human blood identified. Item fifty six, which was

675
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: swabs collected from steering wheel, had a positive result, which

676
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: means blood was identified on this item Crime Stories with

677
00:42:55,880 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. They are all swabs that were taken from

678
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: the Chevy Suburban. So it appears that these swabs were

679
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: collected because they were blue Star positive, which to my

680
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,479
Speaker 1: understanding is a presumptive test used by the crime scene

681
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 1: unit to indicate areas of possible blood stating. Since they

682
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: were already presumptively tested, I used the confirmatory test to

683
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:25,320
Speaker 1: test these swabs for the presence of blood. So SLOOD

684
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: items fifty one through fifty five, and fifty seven through

685
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: sixty we're all negative with that testing, which means there's

686
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: no human blood identified. Item fifty six, which was swabs

687
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: collected from steering wheel, had a positive result, which means

688
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: blood was identified on this item. Now we got to

689
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: figure out how murdog is going to explain Paula Maggie's

690
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: blood on his steering wheel. But believe you me, he

691
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: will come up with something believable. No, but he will

692
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: come up with something and it will be voiced by

693
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: the attorney Hartpoolian. Now let's take a listen to what

694
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: we learned about Murdoch's T shirt and shorts in our cuts. Seven.

695
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: The white shirt from Richard Murdoch was submitted with a

696
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: blood request on June ninth of twenty twenty one. I

697
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: processed this item for the possible presence of blood, so

698
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 1: that entails I first visually examined the shirt for any

699
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: areas that are consistent with the staining of blood. Then

700
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: I've tested these items that I have indicated for with

701
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: our funal failing presumptive test for blood. Two stains were

702
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: indicated are were tested. Both stains were positive for the

703
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 1: possible presence of blood. So the shorts also were submitted

704
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 1: with a blood request. They were processed in a similar manner.

705
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: Several stains were tested. However, two were positive for the

706
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: possible presence of blood. A stain look he did at

707
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,479
Speaker 1: the front left interior pocket of the pair of green

708
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: shorts was forwarded for further analysis. This was processed on

709
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: the same June ninth day of twenty twenty one. The

710
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: shorts were also additionally processed. At the same time, the

711
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: short was additionally processed to retrieve a second scene that

712
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: was indicated as the possible presence of flood. So the

713
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: presumptive results for this stain or that it was positive

714
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 1: for the possible presence of flood. Okay, we know there's

715
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: blood on the clothes, but what kind of blood? To

716
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Duprie, it's very very significant. Was it a

717
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: transfer where he had been checking Paul and Maggie's pulse

718
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: and then transferred the blood. Was its spatter which would

719
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: have indicated he was standing right there at the time

720
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: the gun went off. It's very important what type of

721
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: blood stained was it? Exactly, Nancy, and I don't think

722
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: we know that at this point. As you said, if

723
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: it's spatter, that is a much much different situation than

724
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: if he had touched something and then simply transferred it

725
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: to his clothing. Okay, you know a lot is going

726
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,600
Speaker 1: to be made of the blood evidence joining me wc

727
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: IV ABC's and and were so what about it? Anne, Well,

728
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,439
Speaker 1: you know that's exactly what Michelle Dupree was just saying

729
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: after Duprees talking about we've got to figure out if

730
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: it's blood spatter and what or if it's transferred. Now,

731
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: this was a lot of what was going on in

732
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: pre trial motions because the defense was fighting tooth and

733
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: nail to keep the blood spatter expert out of court

734
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 1: and keep this evidence excluded. They've been trying to discredit

735
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: this since the beginning the blood spatter. Supposedly, the defense

736
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: has not been able to look at this T shirt

737
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: the same way the state was able to look at it,

738
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: because after they were after the part that you just played,

739
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: they went ahead, after they had tested the shirt, they

740
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 1: went ahead and put LCV on it, and crime scene

741
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: experts from SLED came and did another testing. This LCV

742
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: actually turned the T shirt purple. So now the defense

743
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: is having a hard time at least examining what the

744
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: state was looking at before. So right now we're in

745
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: the middle of this major discrepancy about what's actually going

746
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: to be admitted into evidence. Wow. Okay, guys, and we

747
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: heard from a SLED forensic surologist. Take a listen to

748
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: our cut eight. Item fifteen, which were the swabs from

749
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 1: the receiver forward of the loading port of the Camopanelli

750
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: twelve gage shotgun, tested positive for the possible presence of blood.

751
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: Item sixteen, swabs collected from beryl of Camopanelli twelve gage

752
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: shotgun tested negative for the possible presence of blood. Both

753
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,800
Speaker 1: sets of swabs were forwarded to the GENA section for

754
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: further analysis. Okay, I want to examine that one particular phrase.

755
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: Did you hear what she said? It's item fifteen. The

756
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: swaves from the receiver forward of the loading port. The

757
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: twelve gay shotgun tested positive for presence of blood. Okay,

758
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: the other part, the part of the gun was negative.

759
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,320
Speaker 1: Both as the swaves are forwarded to the DNA section.

760
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: So regarding the gun, why it would blood be on

761
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: the receiver of the loading port? What about that to you,

762
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnough, show, Nancy. There's a couple of things going

763
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: on here, and what the experts will be able to

764
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: testify to is one, if the gun was fired and

765
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: if it did make an impact, then what would have

766
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 1: been what we u is called blowback. And when a

767
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: shotgun is fired, it's sending gash and it's sending these

768
00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 1: projectiles down down range. But when it impacts something, and

769
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: that means all of that blowback potentially could come back

770
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: and would possibly hit that weapon. That may be what

771
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: they're talking about in this particular case. Well, that gun

772
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: is not the murtyr weapon. That is a gun. I

773
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: believe Anne Emerson that Murdoch said he went and retreat

774
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: from the house because he thought the killer may still

775
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 1: be on the grounds, but I'm interested that the DNA

776
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 1: is found on that particular part of the gun. And

777
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 1: there is a mix. In our cut nine, we hear

778
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: about a mix of Maggie and Alex's DNA found on

779
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: the twelve gage. Take a listen to our cut nine.

780
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: This would be stasty give it two fifty nine. Two

781
00:49:54,719 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: fifty nine contains sled items fifty and sixteen, which were

782
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: swabs from the Camo Bonelli twelve gage shotgun. The comparisons

783
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: would now be Margaret Murda and Richard Alexander Murdock contributed

784
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: to the mixture versus two unidentified unrelated individuals contributed to

785
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: the mixture. And the result of that comparison is the

786
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: DNA profile is approximately forty eight quintocilian times more likely

787
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: if Margaret Murda and Richard Alexander Murda contributed to the

788
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: profile than if two unidentified unrelated individuals contributed to the profile. Wow,

789
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: she really knows her stuff, doesn't she. And we also

790
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: heard Alex and Murdock and his interrogation our cut four.

791
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: I want you to listen and watch his demeanor as

792
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: he says this Our cut four. When I got back

793
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: to the house. The house was obviously nobody was in there,

794
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: so figured they're still up here fooling around. Paul was

795
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: gonna be getting set up to plant our some seeds

796
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: got sprayed and died, and he was refiguring to do

797
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: to plant the sun flower seeds. So I came back

798
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: up here, and I drove up and saw in cold

799
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 1: that is not how I would expect a husband to act,

800
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: finding not just his wife but his son dead. To

801
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: Ann Emerson, how is the jury responding to all the evidence? Well,

802
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: that's a great question, I mean right now today, I mean,

803
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 1: you know what we were listening to. They they were

804
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: listening to a lot of explanations that had to be

805
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: done methodically and carefully, so I'm gonna be honest, they

806
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: looked pretty bored. Like for the first part of this today,

807
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: I saw eyebrows go up a few times when they

808
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: were really kind of narrowing in on the DNA and

809
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 1: it was Alec and Maggie or and or Maggie and

810
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,880
Speaker 1: Paul's DNA that they were finding, but they weren't finding

811
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,719
Speaker 1: anybody else's. So I definitely saw the wheels churning a

812
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: little bit, I think. But there today this morning. That

813
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: was a tough morning for these jurors. They got to

814
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: get through this sort of methodical take on the DNA.

815
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: But you know, there's one thing is that we out,

816
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: you know, have finally been able to see some of

817
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 1: these redacted bodycam videos, and this is what they were

818
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: looking at. We were literally watching some of the jurors

819
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: putting their mouth, putting their hand over their mouth like

820
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: a gas at what they were witnessing from a visual

821
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: standpoint to be able to once I got out of

822
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: the courthouse today and took a quick look at what

823
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: they were looking at, it is incredible to see what

824
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: they had to sort of go through the first day

825
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 1: of testimony to be looking at these body camera videos

826
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: and what was happening. They have a very clear idea

827
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:57,919
Speaker 1: as we are starting to get of what it really

828
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: looked like out there on Moselle that night. And do

829
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 1: you see them looking over at Murdoch? I do. I do.

830
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: They spend a lot of time now. I think they've

831
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: gotten a lot more comfortable with being able to go

832
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: back and forth and depending on what who they're listening to.

833
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 1: Right if they're listening to one of these witnesses, like

834
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: we heard the housekeeper, confidante, the friend of Maggie who

835
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 1: who got up there, who looked very reluctant to be

836
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: speaking against anybody in the family. Really, it was a

837
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: very hard moment for her. Boy. They were just their

838
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: heads were on a swivel. Literally, it was like watching

839
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: a tennis match with She would say something and they

840
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 1: would look at the prosecutioner. They would look over at

841
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: the defense table for a reaction. They're also trying to

842
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: read the defendant right now, right They're also trying to

843
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: understand how in the world, as jurors, are we supposed

844
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: to make the leap that this white collar crime as

845
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 1: a as a great prosecutor told me, how did these

846
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,879
Speaker 1: white collar crimes turn? I'd read, how does that work?

847
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: How do we use that motive that they've told us

848
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 1: that we're supposed to be looking at and take this

849
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 1: guy that we're staring at every day and make him

850
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 1: who the state says he is. Guys, I want you

851
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 1: to hear our cut three. Now. The timing of this sound,

852
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: the timing of Murdoch's speaking is critical to what the

853
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: state is trying to show. Remember, some of this is

854
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 1: a month after his wife and son or murdered. Listen,

855
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna direct your attention to July of twenty twenty one,

856
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: specifically July fourth. Did you drive Alex to the airport.

857
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: Where was he going? I believe he was going to

858
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: part the keys with Maggie's family. And did he say

859
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: anything to you on that ride to the airport we talks.

860
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: Did he tell you anything about the boat case? He did? What?

861
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: Did he say? He said that he would like to

862
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 1: clear Paul's name and do what and beat the boatcase?

863
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: Beat the boatcase. So now with Paul gone, he's talking

864
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: about he can beat the boatcase. That's great. This is

865
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: a month after the murder. That's great. You know again,

866
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:23,479
Speaker 1: I know that I'm probably projecting, But four weeks after

867
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:29,799
Speaker 1: my fiance's murder, shortly before our wedding, I couldn't care

868
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: less about a lawsuit or returning. I dropped out of school.

869
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: I didn't care about that. I didn't want to eat,

870
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: I didn't want to drink, I didn't want to sleep,

871
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: I didn't want to live. And he's talking about beating

872
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 1: a lawsuit. It's over. Paul's dead at all that Mallory

873
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,439
Speaker 1: Beaches family. So he was talking about the teen girl

874
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 1: that was thrown off Paul's boat. Well, it's Murdog's boat,

875
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: but Paul was driving it drunk as a Scott and

876
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: a high as a kite, and they were suing the Murdochs,

877
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: of course, among others. That's where his head is. This

878
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: is four weeks after his son, his son and his

879
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 1: wife are murdered. Why isn't he out trying to find

880
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: the killer? Screw tripped down to the keys? What? Okay?

881
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: Somebody jump in because I find this the most repugnant

882
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: testimony so far. I can speak from personal experience of

883
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: losing a sound in two thousand and three, who was

884
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: twenty years old. I can tell you I can't remember

885
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: for Munch what life was like outside of wanting to

886
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: figure out why, and when we see behaviors like this

887
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,839
Speaker 1: just so blatant coming out where you know, I need

888
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: to figure out this lawsuit again. It goes back to

889
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,879
Speaker 1: this idea of all of the problems that I've seen

890
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 1: in this is he has injected the cell phone conversations,

891
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: he's injected the shotgun conversations. He's tried to talk to

892
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: all of these witnesses and get them to kind of

893
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: go along with his narrative. So this is not the

894
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: behavior in my experience of working over three hundred murders

895
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: in my career, of somebody who's distraught in relationship to

896
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: a victim's family. Now, people grieve differently. I get that,

897
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: but in this particular case, you know, he's very specific

898
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: and methodical. And if we go back to that first

899
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: interview in the car with him, where you know Sled

900
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: has him there, I'm curious not to shift gears for

901
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 1: a second, but there's a screen on his phone that

902
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: looks like an Apple reset screen. You'll see it towards

903
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,520
Speaker 1: the end of his conversation here when he starts looking

904
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: for phone numbers. So if you get a chance, take

905
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: a look at that. And I had a question for

906
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: you know, the expert, the digital guy here, s go ahead.

907
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 1: Is there evidence that shows he actually reset his phone

908
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: that night? Because when you see that phone, it's only

909
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: one of three screens that Apple offers you, and they're

910
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: both the original factory screens. And he's got it on

911
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: his phone as clear as day. When you go back

912
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 1: and staff can pull it up, you'll see it clear

913
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: as day. So at about a jam, go ahead? If

914
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: he reset his phone? David lose some important data that's

915
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: on that phone, because what happens, all these keys get lost,

916
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: and so you're not able to get data when they

917
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 1: reset a phone. It's very difficult to acquire data, really, Benny,

918
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: when you reset a phone. So I'd have to look

919
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: along and hard at that that video game and see exactly.

920
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 1: But oh, please do, please do Giovanni, please look at

921
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 1: it again. I just want to say that that last

922
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: bit of sound that Christine played for us. This is

923
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 1: four weeks after his wife and his son, his beloved,

924
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: have been murdered. Is he out trying to find the killer?

925
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: H L n O? Is he putting up posters? Is

926
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: he publicizing a reward? No not. He's going on a

927
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,400
Speaker 1: vacation to the keys and he come at a time

928
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 1: limit award. Yeah. It's completely bass ackwards. And he's not

929
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: worried about clearing Paul's name. Paul is dead. He is

930
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:51,439
Speaker 1: worried about losing murdog money to that lawsuit, talking about yeah,

931
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: I think I can beat the case. I don't know

932
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: if it hit the jury like it hit me like

933
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,440
Speaker 1: a ton of bricks, But that would have been the

934
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 1: further this thing from my mind is trying to save

935
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: money when my husband and my child were murdered. No, no, okay, guys,

936
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: we're going back in the courtroom and we're hoping and

937
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: praying that we don't lose any more jurars to where

938
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,920
Speaker 1: we have to declare a mistrial and start this whole

939
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 1: thing all over God forbid. Thanks for joining us, Goodbye, everybody.