WEBVTT - Roundtable About the End of the World (As We Know It) 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:08.320 That's happening here. Ship. We didn't want it to. We 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:11.039 were like, uh, it shouldn't happen here. That would be bad. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.520 But now it is. And I'm Robert Evans. This is 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.759 the podcast about things are kind of falling apart and 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:18.960 maybe it would be good if they didn't fall apart, 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:21.840 or at least if while they were falling apart, we 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:27.000 did something that was better than the thing that fell apart. Anyway, Hi, everybody, 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.840 this is a podcast. I'm Robert Evans. As you can 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:36.240 note from this horrible introduction, which was was incompetently done, 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.959 half acidly done. Uh, subsequent weeks of the show are 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:41.559 going to be very different from the first week. We 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.520 started off with five very scripted episodes. My vision kind 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.760 of at the start of this was that first week 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.040 of this, the first five episodes would be ever green, 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.160 so that when we have new people over the coming 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:53.840 months and years, we can say, hey, if you want 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.520 to know what we're about, listen to episodes one through five. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.040 It lays out our philosophy what this show is, kind 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:01.480 of gives you the background we think you need to 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.160 understand where we are in the world right now. Um, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.000 but of course this is a daily show. I'm not 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.360 going to be writing a ten thousand words script every 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.000 single day, because that would literally be writing a novel 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.040 length work every week, and that would very quickly drive 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.600 me to drink. And also I don't think would be 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.720 as interesting as trying to be nimble. Um. So, this 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:25.400 week we're gonna try to give you kind of an 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:28.000 idea of what most of the weeks of the show 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:29.720 will be like. It's going to be a mix of 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:35.760 kind of breaking news coverage of some ongoing stories, speculation, interviews, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.880 um so with I don't know, probably a little bit 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:42.080 of further ado. I would like to introduce I would 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.920 like to start this, this episode, this show, this beautiful 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:48.600 thing or terrible thing, whatever it winds up being either 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.720 beautiful or terrible, by introducing my team, the people who 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.000 actually do the most of the work on this while 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:58.240 I extract their surplus value and turn it into fancy liquors. 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:05.680 First off is Sophie Lichterman. Uh, Sophie, you exist, Hi? Apparently, Hey, 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.280 you're my executive producer. It's your job to make sure 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:11.359 that I do things like turn on my computer, um, 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.760 and that we have guests. Uh. Next up is Garrison 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:20.840 Davis Garrison, What what are you? That's a good question. Um, 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:25.880 I read books and articles and occasionally go to places 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.520 to learn about different resistance movements. I guess yeah, yeah. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.480 We we actually sent you out to an Earth First 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.080 gathering a couple of weeks ago, and we're gonna have 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.200 some episodes about your experiences there in the very near future, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.040 and I'm excited for that. Um. We also sent you 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.800 to a waffle house where you saw a guy get stabbed. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.200 So really it's been quite a week of journalism for you, 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.360 and they're also there are also be some content around 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:53.520 that trip in the near future as well. I got 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.440 to talk to some other other researchers the climate change 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:01.400 and um, how that affects extremism, and look forward to 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.040 Garrison's three part or Fear and Loathing in the waffle 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.600 House in South Carolina in the very near future. I'm 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.440 excited for that quite a bit myself. Uh. And then last, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.000 but certainly not at least, we have Christopher and Christopher, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.280 how are you doing. Um, I'm doing pretty good. Well, okay, 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.760 I say I'm doing pretty good. I've I've just you know, 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.480 I'm I'm I am also a researcher, and being a 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:24.640 researcher means I've just come off of about six hours 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:28.040 of reading about Japanese war crimes. So that's what I do. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:30.840 Kind of by definition, no one on this team is 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.359 ever doing all that well, which is which is the job. Christopher, 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.960 you are probably most prominently to people who use Twitter 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.480 the ice must be destroyed guy on Twitter. And I 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.839 became aware of you because if you're incredibly well researched 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:50.320 threads UM, particularly focusing on the history of revolutionary movements, 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.920 anarchist movements and include mainly like Southeast and in mainland Asia, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.480 which is not a history political or or cultural that 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.480 I knew much about, UM, And so we brought you 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.720 onto Behind the Bastards UM to fill out for the 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:07.560 fact that I am not capable of, for example, doing 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.080 a mouse dung episode with any sort of competence UM. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:12.800 And you've done a lot of great stuff there and 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:17.600 you will be You are a history of particularly like 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.080 left wing political movements nowhere UM in a way that 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.719 I can never be UM. And I have a great 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.200 deal of admiration for your ability to do that research. 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.360 So you will be helpful. Uh when when I say 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.440 wouldn't it be neat if someone had done this? And 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.760 you say, actually they did and here's how many people died, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:38.799 And I say, oh damn, Okay, well that's good, Chris. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.560 What are you reading about this week? Yeah? This this week? Yeah, 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.240 this is this is the this is the Japanese war crimes, 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:49.559 deep dive, this is Yeah, it's mostly been forced labor. 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.880 I made an executive decision that I was not going 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:57.360 to start reading about comfort women and that particular kind 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.640 of Japanese war crimes one hour before this podcast started. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:06.440 But oh yeah yeah, so ah, man, that's the good. 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.280 That's the good war crimes right there. Um, I I 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.479 don't know, I I've spent like when it comes to 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:15.080 military history, I definitely spent less time in the Pacific 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.279 theater than I have uh in the Western theater. But 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.920 my god, like some of the Unit seven thirty one 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:23.919 ship is just among the darkest stories in history. But 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.839 that's not what this podcast is about. So, guys, I 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.520 brought everyone here today because number one, I wanted to 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.120 introduce the audience to the team, and number two I 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:36.039 kind of wanted to ask a big question, um, which 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:37.920 is you know, we had our first week where I 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.320 sort of laid out the scope of the problems confronting everybody. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:47.440 Climate change, UM, the the rising authoritarian movements around the globe, UM, 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.480 the danger of weaponized unreality, and kind of the fundamentally 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.400 separate reality tunnels that people are getting increasingly trapped in 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:59.960 that make peaceful coexistence almost impossible. UM. And we attempted 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.360 in in that first week of shows to provide people 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.719 with some reasons for hope, with some paths forward. UM, 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:10.000 I am, despite it all, uh, not black pilled. And 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.320 and our goal is to avoid being a black pilled 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.839 podcast Garrison. You want to explain to the nice people 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:20.760 what black pilled means. All right, So I think followers 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:22.920 of of you and us as in a Hole are 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:29.200 probably familiar with pill culture of the coming coming coming 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.280 from the matrix. The term red pill got used a 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.440 lot by the far right, especially during Gammer Gate, to 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:36.000 be like introducing a new idea to someone's pilling someone. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.560 If you're and if you're getting someone to become like 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.440 a conservative or for or like an alright person, you're 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:46.000 red pilling them. UM. So that that was what got popular, 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:49.039 and then because that became like a much more viral meme, 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:51.880 and pill was just got to be used on various 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:55.200 various other ideologies and even just like things. So if 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.320 I'm drinking coffee, I'm taking my coffee pill, etcetera. Bad 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:02.280 jokes by people who don't have much better things to do. UM. 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.960 But black pill is like uh, is like a duomer 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.760 pill or like a nihilism pill. It's like not being 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.280 able to see hope for the future. Everything is like 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:13.360 just like avoid you don't be able to see that, 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.760 you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. UM. 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.000 So that's kind of what black pill means when it's 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.640 used like online UM generally it's it's true. It's it's 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.240 people who are making like propaganda or making content who 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:27.560 are or or just you know, people like on forms, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.200 chat rooms and stuff. We're trying to get other people 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:34.680 to become this kind of dysfunctional nihilist um and not 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:38.800 be able to really see any any future. UM. And 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:40.720 you know, there's a lot of issues with this, but 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.760 particularly it comes from kind of a very like privileged 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.000 place in in in a lot of ways, because the 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.440 people who are you know, seeped in this are not 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.160 gonna be the ones facing the worst consequences of climate 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:55.200 change or you know, localized collapses. UM. So that's that's 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.320 kind of the problem with this whole black pilling thing. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.520 And it's because it's becoming increasingly pop are online. Yeah, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.880 and I've seen a lot of this, so obviously, UM. 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.640 I I spend some time on the collapse subreddit because 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.520 that's a good information aggregator UM. And I have some 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.880 fans there, so they've been commenting on the first week 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.800 of shows, and one person was like, I I think 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.920 that he's he always understates the damn it, like how 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:21.320 serious climate change is going to be, and sort of 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.280 made the point that like basically, we're all going to die. UM. 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.440 And that's that's not that's not gonna happened. That's not 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.560 the situation. Number one, UM, have you heard if you 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:35.120 have you all heard of the Toba catastrophe. No, it's 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.760 an interesting thing. I just got informed about this and 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.079 have been doing a little bit of reading. It was 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.040 a super volcanic eruption that occurred about seventy five thousand 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.320 years ago. UM. And so like what does present day Sumatra, Indonesia, 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.720 it's one of the largest explosive eruptions in world history. UM. 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.320 And there's a theory and this is so this is 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.480 you know, obviously too far, too long ago, first hard evidence, 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.240 but there's a theory that this caused a global like 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.080 volcanic winter that lasted as long as a decade and 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:05.920 may have caused a thousand year long cooling episode. And 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.680 this is y'all may have heard that there are a 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.800 number of scientists who think that about seventy thousand years 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:15.080 ago there was a massive population bottleneck where the global 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.040 human population was reduced to an incredibly tiny number, which 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:20.560 is why like everyone can kind of trace their lineage 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:22.680 back to one of a very small number of people, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.559 and kind of the theory is that the Toba explosion 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.679 caused that bottleneck. It was just so devastating to life 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:32.920 on Earth that like it caused or specifically to human life, 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:35.800 that it it reduced the global human population down to 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:40.280 a very tiny number. Um. But also if that's true, 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.920 we we did make it. It was seventy five thou 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:44.920 years ago. Like we're doing all right, which is not 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:46.679 to say, like when I say we're doing all right, 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:51.079 I mean the human species exists in sufficient number to 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:56.240 maintain biodiversity, right. I think people underestimate how many people 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.360 are who life right now? Yeah, and how adaptable our 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.440 species is. And that doesn't mean the problem is not 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:06.679 nightmarishly severe, because it is. The question is number one, 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.360 how miserable is life going to be? How many we 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.800 could still human beings could exist in completely sufficient numbers 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.199 for the maintenance of the population, and billions of people 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.320 could still die as a result of climate change, And 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.400 that's a problem, Like that's a that's a real issue, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.000 But it is also not. Um, it's not a guarantee 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.120 that that many people will die, that we will let 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:31.760 it get that bad. It is at this point a 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.360 guarantee essentially based on all of the best that we have, 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.800 that we're going to hit one and a half degrees um. Absolutely, 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.800 and almost certainly two degrees just kind of based on 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.000 where things are politically now three degrees. Four degrees is 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:47.560 not a guarantee and can be stopped. Um. It is 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:52.120 an uphill battle. Uh And And but also because we 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.440 are talking about not just billions of human lives, but 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.200 hundreds or if not thousands of species around the planet. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:05.400 Um depend on us curbing emissions and us reversing to 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:07.560 the extent that that's possible. As much of the damage 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.680 as we can UM and I think it is kind 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:15.120 of the height of selfishness to just look at the 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:18.040 scale of the problem and go, well, we're doomed, so 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:32.000 don't try to do anything. So like, ever since that 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:34.959 climate report came out, there's been two narratives online that 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:39.959 I've seen quite a bit, which is does individual impact matter? 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:46.000 And what will the quality of life be? These are 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:48.400 these are both impossible to questions to answer. I mean 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.440 the first the first one was a little bit easier because, 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:56.320 like generally world individual consumer choices matter, probably not very much. 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.800 Of course, not that's not that's that we can look 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.440 at the history of how that's been pushed by certain companies. 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:04.720 I think a lots of people are already familiar with that, 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:06.599 which doesn't mean there's no And I do want to 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.199 be clear here when I when we say your your 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:12.000 individual decisions as a consumer are not going to UM 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.640 fix the problem in any meaningful degree. Learning how to 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.720 be comfortable and happy with less, learning how to personally 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.360 emit less, those are all still useful adaptations because part 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.120 of the story, part of the solution is how do 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.200 we fix this. Part of the solution is how do 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.400 we as individuals and communities adapt to this, and we 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.240 are going to have to adapt to less. That is 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:35.520 going to be a necessity. You can just look at 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.880 how in a lot of places weed crops have are 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.360 fifty lower than the harvest was last year in some 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:46.719 reasons like ninevah in Iraq, in northeastern Syria, um like 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:49.760 calamitous under production as a result of how bad this 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.280 summer is. That's going to continue to happen. We are 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.760 going to have to deal with less, not just because 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:58.160 we'll have less available, but because if we're trying to 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.440 take care of our community, that might mean even if 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.360 we can afford to consume at the level where we 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.560 need to personally do more, get by with less so 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.280 that we can give more to other people in our 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:13.000 community who can't afford anything. There's a and that's again 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.079 not going to taking care of the people in your neighborhood. 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.000 You know, setting up a four block radius where you 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.680 make sure there's you know, free fridges and soup kitchens 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.120 or whatever isn't going to fix climate change. But community 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:28.000 resiliency is an important part of building any building the 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:29.319 kind of dual power that I think is going to 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.199 be necessary to find climate change. It's also just a 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.800 necessary survival adaptation, and the fact that there are things 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.040 to do, the fact that there's so much to do 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:40.520 both to solve the problem on a big scale and 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.839 to take care of the people around us, that all 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.080 of us have a responsibility to do because we as 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:49.079 people are responsible for each other. Um, I think means 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:53.880 it's immoral to lose hope. Yeah, this is also precisely 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.240 the wrong one went to do it because and and 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:57.679 this this is one of you know, one of the 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.120 one of the reasons I'm excited to be doing this 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:04.040 is that I don't think generally the broad public has 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.240 a particularly good understanding of what's been happening the last 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.599 three years, which is that well, and you know, you 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:10.200 can go back into the decade, right, you know, so 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:15.120 I I like started doing activism stuff around thirteen with 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.280 the sort of second wave of revolutions from from the 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.240 air Spring, and so you know, and over the course 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.280 of that decade, you have you have an increasing series 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.240 of revolutions and they kind of they kind of peter 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.920 out and they kind of start to lose around but 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.800 then in eighteen they start again, and you know, I'm 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.320 gonna I'm gonna read a partial, like enormous emphasis on 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.880 partial list of places that had either full scale revolutions 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.920 or hundreds of thousands of millions people in the street. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:48.600 So okay, starting starting Fromen, you have Haiti, Sudan, Algeria, Honduras, Chila, Ibraq, 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.040 Hong kong I, rands on their like third version of this. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:56.040 Lebanon's had about three, Columbia's had three, h France at 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:57.960 the general strikes. There's also the Yello vest. There's there 0:14:58.000 --> 0:14:59.800 was there was a six d person general striker p 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.480 there was There's been a bunch of stuff in India, 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.600 the farmer's protests. There's been stuff in Ecuador and Popua 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.560 Catalonia briefly, and you know, there there's something there, like 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:13.120 there there were a bunch of roadblockades last year in Canada, 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.480 like Canada when it went into revolt over a bunch 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.800 of pipeline stuff. And then you know, and then and 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.720 then and then there was last summer, and last summer 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:22.600 was sort of in the US and that that was 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.920 sort of this this this capstone of like the second 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.640 wave of revolutions in that decade, and you know, the 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.160 thing like this wave that that that again, that's that's 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.120 a very partial list, and that that sort of wave 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.440 of upheople right, it's it's a sign of both the 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.440 fact that you know, everyone realizes that the world is 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:44.600 just crumbling, right, and also that you know, people people 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.400 have sort of started to figure out that, like, you know, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.480 the sort of ordinary political processes don't work, and that 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.800 if you get enough people together, you can like the 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.120 ordinary political process to cease to function. And you know, 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.520 I mean people there there's been a huge if forget 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:02.840 everyone to forget this last summer. But you know, people 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.440 were fighting the Secret Service at the gates of the 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:12.800 White House, like the president, like Donald truck was yeah, 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.440 like you know, like the like you know, the you know, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:18.440 for for for about a week there, the cops completely 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.760 lost control of most major cities. Like you know, I'm 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.200 in Chicago and in Chicago, god, the street drinking in 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:29.320 Portland was beautiful. Just teenagers smoking cigarettes walking down the 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.040 right in front of the police station. Yeah, it's sorry, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.560 I mean it's incredible. People like people, people like just 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.760 took control of them, like the Bracle Mile it was, 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.920 you know, and you saw for a very brief moment 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:48.240 just like what what a world without the police, for example, 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.320 would look like right, And you know, it was a 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.080 lot of parties, there's a lot of celebration, there's a 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:53.560 lot of people sort of there's there's a lot of 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:58.800 arts everywhere, right, And I think, what what have you 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.240 seen over the last three years? What we've seen ability 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.920 of the last decade is that you know, cycles revolutions 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:06.359 like this, You used to get them once every like 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.400 three decades, two, right, we got to in a decade. 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.399 And all the things that cause that, like all of 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:15.919 the all things thats inate financial class, everything that was 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.879 bad that caused everyone to go into the streets is 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.400 still happening, and they're still getting worse. And so this 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.040 is this is going to keep happening. This sort of 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.159 unrest is gonna keep happening. And and our job and 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.760 our responsibility is to make sure that you know the 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.520 product if this is actually a better world, because you 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.520 know they're there, there's there's basically you know this this 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.280 is the thing you learned study history that there's always 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:40.800 almost always bad things happening, there's almost always resistance to it, 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.919 and that resistance can win. And I think that's you know, 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:51.000 like that that's that's the important part of this. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.560 and it's it's this um. One of the things that 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.320 you're getting at there is one of the things that 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.879 I think most toxically the left, particularly in UM in 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:05.680 the West, HASH has lost in recent times, which used 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.680 to be a huge aspect of not just the anarchists left, 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.719 although it was massive among anarchists, but about the organized 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.520 left in general in the West. Was internationalism. Was this 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.639 idea that like the struggles in Spain, the struggles of 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.879 workers in Germany and England and uh in China, in 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.399 Poland and Indonesia, where we are all connected, and like 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.960 you would have the magazines that were like, you know, 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.439 part of these different workers organizations would have stories and 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.440 experiences from protests and strikes and uprisings all around the world, 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.160 and there was this this strong sense of international solidarity 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.280 and that has collapsed, and the collapse of it is 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:42.919 a long story. I think we should probably do a 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.919 special on it at some point. Aspects of it started 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.040 in World War One when there was this big understanding 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.639 among socialists in World War One that like, well, if 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:51.679 push comes to shoven there's a big European war, the 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.280 workers won't fight, right, We won't we won't massacre each other, 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.560 and then they did. Um Because you know, nationalism is 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.439 the hell of a drug. There's a lot of again 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.240 we're not doing the topic justice, but but a big 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.320 part of why it's so thoroughly dead right now is 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:13.600 these this this multinational series of kind of propaganda campaigns 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.680 orchestrated by a number of different governments, including our own, 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.520 in order to you know, in the case of like 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.760 Russian disinformation propaganda, make all these different left wing or 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:28.760 all these different kind of populist uprisings and populist movements 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:33.720 that are anti Russian political interests, call them color revolutions. 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:35.680 And you see, you know, the same thing is done 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.160 by the Chinese government, and our government does the same thing. 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.320 Like it's not a it's not a case of like, well, 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.560 we're better or or they're better. It's a case of like, well, 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.280 all of these governments have a vested interest in people 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:51.160 not seeing their interests as in common and their struggle 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.520 as the same. Um. But people are still struggling, and 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.080 one of the missing ingredients in the last couple of 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.040 years of increasing as as as Christopher did a great 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:06.960 job of playing out of increasingly massive um sustained revolts 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:10.480 against state power and against the global system that is 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.640 grinding us all under its boot heel. Is that, Um, 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.640 we did not have as as much of an international 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.119 kind of solidarity as we as we should have, UM, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:22.960 And I think that's going to be necessary if we're 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.560 going to do you know, we talked about this in 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:27.879 the first week of episodes, um, and you were just 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:29.840 talking about a version of this, Chris. I think the 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:32.080 only thing that's really the only thing likely to get 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.600 us out of this without you know, blood letting on 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.119 a scale that nobody really wants to think about is 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:39.800 the equivalent of a heart attack at the centers of capital, 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.600 which can only happen when enough people are like, well, 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.600 I'm just not going to keep doing ship like I'm 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.159 not gonna keep I'm not going to keep doing the 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.640 ship that like keeps this system moving forward. Um, because 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.600 at the end of the day, you can like send 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:54.160 cops out to beat people, but you can't make me work. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.880 Um And Uh, that could do something. People who are 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.439 telling you it can't happen, or it can't work or 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.879 it can't be done are are full of ship. And 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:05.359 one of the things I want to cover that we 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:08.119 will at some point. Is how the how the movement 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.280 in Hong Kong came to a broad consensus about their 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.320 list of demands, And obviously that is in the process 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.960 of being crushed, you know, um in the long run, 0:21:18.400 --> 0:21:20.960 there's and there's there's certainly criticisms to make, but also 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:25.240 they were up against a kind of insurmountable challenge really 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.479 without any kind of um aid from overseas. You know, 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:32.520