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Speaker 1: every hunt, First Light, Go farther, stay longer. All right, everybody,
Speaker 1: we are excited to announce that we have identified our
Speaker 1: next opportunity to ensure more access to hunting and fishing.
Speaker 1: This year, we are partnering with the Trust for Public
Speaker 1: Lands to support the Montana Great Outdoors Project. Remember last
Speaker 1: time we did something all the way across the country
Speaker 1: over in Maine. This time we're doing it in Montana,
Speaker 1: the Montana Great Outdoors Project. This project consists of a
Speaker 1: sea areas of permanent easements across one fourteen thousand acres
Speaker 1: of Timber Company land. These easements will prevent development and
Speaker 1: ensure continued access to hunting and fishing and perpetuity. Getting
Speaker 1: these easements in place not only provides direct access to
Speaker 1: one fourteen thousand acres of private property, but increased access
Speaker 1: to the existing public lands that surround the area. So
Speaker 1: there you have it. That's what the two thousand and
Speaker 1: twenty two Meat Eater Land Access Initiative funds are going
Speaker 1: to try to start off. How how was it getting
Speaker 1: your first um, your first wild hawk. Oh, it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: H it was fast. It was fast. It was unexpected
Speaker 1: because we headed out with the intent of Joe hunting
Speaker 1: Nil guy and you guys getting some white tail. And
Speaker 1: the first thing that we saw were a couple of pigs.
Speaker 1: And you're a lot, grab the riffle, let's go. So
Speaker 1: how far were we was from the road to the
Speaker 1: pigs couple hundred yards and you took off and I
Speaker 1: just followed you, and we're trying to get close enough
Speaker 1: to them and out of wind down wind, and then
Speaker 1: you said, we probably got to about a hundred yards.
Speaker 1: You set up those stick that stick tripod for me,
Speaker 1: and uh, you're making sure that I I saw the
Speaker 1: largest one in my sites, which was a black one.
Speaker 1: I think there was like a pink, two pinks. I
Speaker 1: think there were three, all white tand I didn't see
Speaker 1: a red tan. That's kind of a I mean a
Speaker 1: neutral color. I don't know. I thought lighter. It wasn't
Speaker 1: a pink one that we're scoping out. So's this larger
Speaker 1: black one, and it looked from that distance huge, because
Speaker 1: everything seems to look really really large when you're far
Speaker 1: away from it. But I think you maybe thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna take a little bit more time to set
Speaker 1: up because you were still talking to me, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, like I'm going to shoot, and you're
Speaker 1: still talking to me. I'm like, I'm going to shoot.
Speaker 1: And then it was quartered away from me, and uh.
Speaker 1: I was a little shaky on the on the tripod,
Speaker 1: but I just I shot, and you know when you
Speaker 1: hear that, like, so I knew I hit it. Father
Speaker 1: described as hitting the pumpkin with a bat m. That
Speaker 1: was his noise for whenever he's telling how good, yeah,
Speaker 1: how good? He hits on with Uh. But I made
Speaker 1: a mistake and then I didn't continue to look through
Speaker 1: the scope. I raised my head and I didn't automatically
Speaker 1: rack another one. So for the future, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: just always something that I should remember when you shoot once,
Speaker 1: you know, just you know, because it might not be dead.
Speaker 1: And in this case, that pig wasn't dead and he
Speaker 1: ran off. I panicked a little bit. I couldn't get
Speaker 1: off another shot because I had did I had done
Speaker 1: made some little mistakes right after, and uh, we took
Speaker 1: off trying to find him, and you were preparing me
Speaker 1: for the fact that we really might not find him
Speaker 1: because he ran off. Kind of I knew that he
Speaker 1: was hit, but I didn't know how injured he really was. Um,
Speaker 1: and then we kind of got to the end. Uh
Speaker 1: we got to the start of the tree line, and
Speaker 1: like ten yards in there he was and that is it.
Speaker 1: But he wasn't. Yeah, well you were all tore up
Speaker 1: about it. But let me point this out to you.
Speaker 1: Had you had you shot and I had said, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna wait ten minutes and then we'll go check. Right,
Speaker 1: you're gonna learn him and laying there dead. It's just
Speaker 1: that you got over there quick enough to see what was.
Speaker 1: You witnessed what you have to do, which is always
Speaker 1: going to happen anyways of you just having to witness
Speaker 1: it happened, and he felt bad about it, but you
Speaker 1: would never You wouldn't have known if you hadn't have
Speaker 1: been there, Like it was mortally wounded and it died
Speaker 1: and it was maybe like ing it through the brain,
Speaker 1: you know, that's the that's the process. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just hard to see my little zodiac Chinese zodiac spirit animal.
Speaker 1: But you're gonna do a bunch of Chinese stuff with it.
Speaker 1: I would love to do some because you're not gonna
Speaker 1: do Jewish off with it. That's that's right. Here's how
Speaker 1: the rab. No. I would love to try to do
Speaker 1: a little bit of char shoe, which is like the
Speaker 1: roast roast pork. Unfortunately, oftentimes when you see it in restaurants, uh,
Speaker 1: it's got that horrible red food coloring die around, which
Speaker 1: I will not not do. Um, but just just salt peter,
Speaker 1: Is that what they're putting in there? No, it's red food. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, I haven't thought about that too much. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: I actually I'll probably maybe I'll ask you, Jesse, or
Speaker 1: ask one of my Chinese chef friends the best way
Speaker 1: to do that, because I've ever I've never made something
Speaker 1: like that when you were gonna at home, Let's say
Speaker 1: you make ten meals. How many of them are sort
Speaker 1: of like somewhat informed by Chinese cooking? Um, probably a
Speaker 1: fair amount. Um. I wouldn't call me myself like great
Speaker 1: in the kitchen, but I grew up on just real
Speaker 1: simple stir fries that my mom, mads would always be
Speaker 1: steam rice. Um. There would always be some kind of vegetable,
Speaker 1: typically a Chinese vegetable stir fry, you know, onions, garlic,
Speaker 1: and either like a back choy or like nap a cabbage, um,
Speaker 1: any kind of Chinese leafy green or um like sauteid
Speaker 1: string beans. And then a protein, often pork or beef,
Speaker 1: sometimes chicken, but um my mom, and it's just like
Speaker 1: really that standard marinade of like soy Chinese cooking wine,
Speaker 1: a little bit of corn starch, uh, maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit of oyster sauce. Um, what am I forgetting? Sometimes
Speaker 1: maybe like a five spice powder in that some sesame
Speaker 1: oil and you just leave that for a short amount
Speaker 1: of time to a longer amount of time to overnight
Speaker 1: you know, um, and then just kind of like high
Speaker 1: heat and a walk. And that's what I ate almost
Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah. So the Chinese don't call Chinese
Speaker 1: five spice powder Chinese right, right, probably just called it
Speaker 1: five spice patter. Um. But yeah, so a fair amount
Speaker 1: of stuff that I cook at home is just like
Speaker 1: a is a stir fry. So the wild game that
Speaker 1: I have in the f in the freezers is not
Speaker 1: really ground. Like last year with my dear and this
Speaker 1: year with my dear, I didn't grind a bit of it, um,
Speaker 1: because I'll just do all the different cuts kind of
Speaker 1: in a stir fry, in a braise. I've got nothing
Speaker 1: against sausage and burger I love it, but I just
Speaker 1: I just don't really grind. And I it's not that
Speaker 1: Asian cooking doesn't incorporate like ground meat, but I just
Speaker 1: haven't haven't gone in that direction. Yeah. Also joined by
Speaker 1: Jesse Griffiths and uh, Mr Joe Rogan, Hi, what um,
Speaker 1: what are your impressions of of what are your impressions
Speaker 1: of of hanging out down here? Joe? This is my
Speaker 1: first time doing like a real Texas hunting ranch experience,
Speaker 1: because everybody tells you it's like I've been here, I've
Speaker 1: living here for two years and everyone's like, have you
Speaker 1: a hunted in Texas yet? Of here? So now I
Speaker 1: can finally say I have, and uh, it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: It's like seeing all these exotic animals and this enormous ranch.
Speaker 1: It's it's really cool. It's really cool. And uh, the
Speaker 1: coolest by far was the rattling in of the white tails.
Speaker 1: That's the coolest thing ever. That is the coolest thing ever.
Speaker 1: The way it works so well, it's it's bonkers, like
Speaker 1: I've I've never seen a thing works so well. Everything. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't you wish like all well, I guess of all
Speaker 1: game calling work like that all the time, there wouldn't
Speaker 1: be any game right, especially we had a rifle. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you imagine if like ELK calling was that effective.
Speaker 1: It's like, watch, we're just gonna sit here. I saw
Speaker 1: an elk. We're just gonna sit here and make a
Speaker 1: noise and we're gonna come running. They come running for
Speaker 1: the folks who have never done this before. Steve was
Speaker 1: rattling and within fifteen seconds sometimes deer are coming in
Speaker 1: full clip. And the one deer, the biggest deer that
Speaker 1: we saw was at the end of the day on Tuesday.
Speaker 1: This guy comes running in in a full sprint and
Speaker 1: he was a big sucker. He saw you and he's
Speaker 1: like not today, and he came running out. So I
Speaker 1: had him at sixteen yards and I had no shot.
Speaker 1: I couldn't get him a slow down. I was going map, map, map,
Speaker 1: It's like no, just like YouTube, just like every white
Speaker 1: till they get a shot on YouTube got well, every
Speaker 1: white teller get shot on YouTube that you know, it's
Speaker 1: usually understand and they're walking and and then that he's
Speaker 1: already like half paranoid ship, you know, and you just
Speaker 1: trying to slow him down. Uh for um. The first
Speaker 1: time I came down in this place was Jesse introduced
Speaker 1: Jesse's friends with the guy that owns the place, or shud,
Speaker 1: it's not fair to say, you know, Jesse's friends with
Speaker 1: a guy who's part of the family that owns the place.
Speaker 1: And we came down to we're doing some other Texas
Speaker 1: ship and came and wanted hunt Nil Guy. And there's
Speaker 1: an outfitter that works here. So he went out with
Speaker 1: one of the outfitters. Um until guy had a great time,
Speaker 1: and there was a lot of Nil Guy back then.
Speaker 1: But we were dicking around and then like like Janice
Speaker 1: had picked up a set of sheds or something or
Speaker 1: another and had on a couple of occasions just rattled
Speaker 1: off next to the truck and got some interest. And
Speaker 1: one time we were laughing because he was rattling. He
Speaker 1: rattled in the buck that already knew we were there,
Speaker 1: like the box, like, oh, there's some dudes in the
Speaker 1: truck and yeah, he rattled and he just starts coming
Speaker 1: a little ways, and then I got the idea, man,
Speaker 1: we gotta come back and try to rattle deer and eventually, uh,
Speaker 1: we're allowed to come back kind of you know, do
Speaker 1: our own thing a little bit. And came back and
Speaker 1: did it. But it wasn't like it is like I
Speaker 1: feel like it was the the I feel like there's
Speaker 1: no way it could be better, Like there's if there's
Speaker 1: a day in the year or two days in the year,
Speaker 1: they're gonna be like, how could it get better than
Speaker 1: it was? Right, we made a pack to come back
Speaker 1: last night, like this time, this time next year, this
Speaker 1: is the time. It's like, you know, you got that
Speaker 1: September what it's probably September sixt for like the elk Rut.
Speaker 1: There's like this time where everything just goes hey wire
Speaker 1: and if you are lucky and you're in the woods
Speaker 1: during that time, it gets nuts. And if I felt
Speaker 1: like December four, like whatever that day was like it
Speaker 1: was just lined up perfectly. We were we were setting
Speaker 1: up and having uh to three of them come Yeah
Speaker 1: once we did, had no idea where in the area.
Speaker 1: We're just storming in full balls running when I got
Speaker 1: that one buck, the first buck, and then that was
Speaker 1: the third buck that came in inside of five minutes.
Speaker 1: Like we we we decided to try again because the
Speaker 1: two bucks came in and one was real close and
Speaker 1: another big one came just running right past us, and uh,
Speaker 1: we were like, wow, I guess we blew these guys
Speaker 1: out of here. And we're like, well, let's just give
Speaker 1: it another couple of minutes, and then before you know what,
Speaker 1: another guy shows up. We kept it kept not working
Speaker 1: because it was working too good. Like you, you kind
Speaker 1: of think that his ass could come and like stop
Speaker 1: thirty forty yards out, but they don't stop till they're in. You.
Speaker 1: You almost have to be at full draw when you're
Speaker 1: done rattling. You almost have to like rattle for like
Speaker 1: thirty seconds and then go ahead and then just hold
Speaker 1: full draw, you know, like with like a modern boat
Speaker 1: you can kind of hold full draw for a couple
Speaker 1: of minutes. I think, if you're really gonna get serious
Speaker 1: about it would be like a eight seventy with buckshot. Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because there were so many times that they were coming
Speaker 1: in behind us, to the side of us, and we
Speaker 1: kept trying to game. It would be like, okay, well
Speaker 1: that one clearly wanted to be down wind, so you
Speaker 1: go down wind, and then he'd go down wind and
Speaker 1: I'd rattle and then people like in my face. And
Speaker 1: then the next one is whatever. Well, the one that
Speaker 1: we rattled in that was over near the lake, that
Speaker 1: was pretty wild because he was on the whole other
Speaker 1: side of that pond and he heard us and you
Speaker 1: just see running from hundreds of yards away and he
Speaker 1: did a full circle to get down wind of us,
Speaker 1: and it was pretty quick. And then he's like, I
Speaker 1: don't like it. And it's like the place gets hunted
Speaker 1: for sure, because there's an outfitter that has excluded like
Speaker 1: an exclusive for outfited stuff, and then the family has
Speaker 1: friends and people that hunted, but at no one hunts
Speaker 1: it like that because it's kind of like a Safari
Speaker 1: style hunting, no blinds, no feeders. Well, when we went out, Joe,
Speaker 1: so Joe was talking to one of the guides and weird.
Speaker 1: The question was basically, how many times have guys bow hunted?
Speaker 1: And he says never and she was like no, I
Speaker 1: mean like ever never, they never had. He had never had.
Speaker 1: The guy that guides had never had an archery client,
Speaker 1: so I think that like a wait, it's so it's
Speaker 1: it's not that it doesn't get hunted, because it gets hunted,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't get hunted like that. So I don't
Speaker 1: think they're hearing like here. I don't think they're hearing that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also I think probably when the deer don't hear gunshots,
Speaker 1: maybe they stay a little more calm because like, no
Speaker 1: one's getting killed, because they probably associate boom with danger
Speaker 1: and death. But there's never a boom while we're here,
Speaker 1: so maybe they're like a little bit more relaxed. Yeah. Uh,
Speaker 1: the there's a guy, there's a cowboy out here that
Speaker 1: runs cattle. I don't know if you call him a cowboy.
Speaker 1: I guess you can call m a cowboy, the guy
Speaker 1: that runs cattle. He said, Uh. He had a good
Speaker 1: way of expressing it. He said, um, they're coming to horns.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a good way of putting it,
Speaker 1: with ratling. They're coming to horns. It works. It's the
Speaker 1: most fun way to hunt ever. I think it is
Speaker 1: because it's so exciting, Like where are they coming from?
Speaker 1: They're running in? Yeah, I've never you know, I have
Speaker 1: never ever ever I've seen anything like that. I wonder
Speaker 1: if it's particular to this area. I think that that's
Speaker 1: that's a yeah, I think it is. I got a
Speaker 1: friend of South care I shouldn't even say this what
Speaker 1: stady listen because he does it, and he does it
Speaker 1: on public ground. South Carolina is a big place. I
Speaker 1: got a friend of South Carolina there. That's how they
Speaker 1: hunt man um. That's how they hunt deer. They climb
Speaker 1: up in a tree standing, they rattle, and they really
Speaker 1: consistently killed box on public land, rattling hard to hunt
Speaker 1: because in his view, up until this very moment, in
Speaker 1: his view, people aren't doing it. M in this area.
Speaker 1: He goes, Okay, He's like in he's in public swamp land.
Speaker 1: He's like, people aren't doing it. They probably just don't know.
Speaker 1: So deer are edgy, they're jumping, but they're not hearing that.
Speaker 1: And when they hear that, it means one thing to him.
Speaker 1: But I've no because you know, I've rattled in a
Speaker 1: couple of deer, Like in Montana, I rattled in a
Speaker 1: couple of deer after a lot of attempts. I know
Speaker 1: they're hearing it, and it could be that for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: It could be that they don't want to get killed
Speaker 1: and they're thinking that that they're always on their mind.
Speaker 1: Is like that which I wonder about that like associate
Speaker 1: that sound with danger or they don't give a ship.
Speaker 1: And that used to be the thing I used to
Speaker 1: think with elk calling, like anytime you couldn't call in
Speaker 1: an elk, I was like, he thinks it's people, you know,
Speaker 1: And Phelps He's like, I don't think he thinks. I
Speaker 1: think he's not interested. He's not interested. It's not that
Speaker 1: he's like there's a lot of time. Sure there might
Speaker 1: be times when he thinks it's people, but as a
Speaker 1: lot of times he's not gonna come anyway. And this
Speaker 1: book there's this book, The Tent Legion by Colonel Tom
Speaker 1: Kelly about turkeys, and he talks about that same thing.
Speaker 1: He always thought when you when Tom won't come, it's
Speaker 1: because he's afraid of getting killed and thinks it's a person.
Speaker 1: But then one day he described, I was watching it, Tom,
Speaker 1: He's watching a bunch of hens. He's watching the Tom
Speaker 1: cruising along, and the Hens are doing all the ship
Speaker 1: that he would do to try to call in the Tom.
Speaker 1: They're doing the calling they're doing everything. And he said
Speaker 1: the tom never gave a ship, never lifted its head up,
Speaker 1: and it's like it's real hands a real time, and
Speaker 1: some things just don't give a ship. So whatever it
Speaker 1: is with the age demographics, I don't know pressure, what's
Speaker 1: that pressure on deer here is minimal? Oh, because people
Speaker 1: are hunting the exotics, you know, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But like you remove, like whatever it does, they're not
Speaker 1: thinking they're gonna get killed. But I'm saying, even in
Speaker 1: the absence of the thought that you're gonna get killed,
Speaker 1: there's probably times when they don't hear two bucks fighting
Speaker 1: and think they need to come running over because of
Speaker 1: whatever ship. He's like, like, I don't really know what
Speaker 1: goes into I don't know why they're so like why
Speaker 1: these particular deer in this particular spot are fired up
Speaker 1: about two bucks fighting. It's really interesting to see the
Speaker 1: difference in the behavior of the animals when you look
Speaker 1: at the animals that are hunted the most. There's all
Speaker 1: these animals that are living together, but the animals that
Speaker 1: are hunted the most are clearly the ones that behave
Speaker 1: differently when they see people like the Neil guy for sure,
Speaker 1: the most spooky, they're the most spooky. The least spooky
Speaker 1: is probably the Havelina. They're the least spookie. They're they're
Speaker 1: like basically not interested in you for the most part.
Speaker 1: You're not going to pick them up. Yeah, you're not
Speaker 1: gonna pick them up. But they're the least scared of you.
Speaker 1: And Neil guy, I just don't wanna have nothing to
Speaker 1: do with you. They see you, they're like, this is it,
Speaker 1: We're out of here. And then the water buck are
Speaker 1: like they're probably not hunted as much and they're a
Speaker 1: lot more relaxed. When I told when I told our
Speaker 1: friend here that we wanted to come down that Joe
Speaker 1: wanted to uh get uh try to get a Neil
Speaker 1: guy with a bow. Um, he right away was like
Speaker 1: nervous about it's hard to do. And Yanni came down
Speaker 1: and just spent time on his own doing it and
Speaker 1: did it. But he had a bunch of days that
Speaker 1: he put into it and killed one of the bow
Speaker 1: and uh, we had a shorter period of time and
Speaker 1: Brad had said listen, uh if need be, I'll have
Speaker 1: one of the guides that that that does bring clients
Speaker 1: out to God. I'll have him come out and show
Speaker 1: you guys what's up. And after we even spent one day,
Speaker 1: know when we just had a couple of days to hunt,
Speaker 1: we spent one day. Uh, I was kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, like other than just sort of
Speaker 1: want other than just sort of wandering around waiting for
Speaker 1: some kind of like weird opportunity present itself. I was
Speaker 1: a little bit I was kind of at a loss.
Speaker 1: I could be like, yeah, I can see, man, if
Speaker 1: you at a week and you're just out for a week,
Speaker 1: something's gonna happen. But I couldn't think of how to deliberately,
Speaker 1: how to sort of deliberately make it happen, being like
Speaker 1: with the deer, like I'll deliberately make it happen by rattling.
Speaker 1: But the nail guy is like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know enough about him to know how you deliberately
Speaker 1: be like we're gonna go out and try to get
Speaker 1: a shot, other than we're just gonna kind of stumble
Speaker 1: around and see if a crazy opportunity presents itself. So
Speaker 1: we had the guy come, um, what did you what
Speaker 1: would your take on his his attitude about it, his
Speaker 1: approach about it. Well, first of all, he said he
Speaker 1: was wearing a black shirt, and he was wearing a
Speaker 1: black shirt on purpose. He was like, the reason why
Speaker 1: I dressed like this is because when they see me
Speaker 1: with the black cowboy hat and a black shirt, like,
Speaker 1: they might think that I'm a Neil guy. And if
Speaker 1: I wolf at him like, they might come towards me.
Speaker 1: And it was so interesting because you at one point
Speaker 1: said to me, what noises do they make? And I said,
Speaker 1: I don't know about any. I'm not saying there aren't any.
Speaker 1: I don't know about any noises. Yeah, I didn't know that. Whoa, Well,
Speaker 1: that's what he was doing. And one of the stopped
Speaker 1: and there was one bull and maybe about eight or
Speaker 1: nine cows and he We crawled about a hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty hundred and forty yards to get to this area
Speaker 1: that was like before the clearing. So we got into
Speaker 1: this one area that was like sparsely treed, and then
Speaker 1: we crawled through that area where we're kind of out
Speaker 1: in the open but not really and to get to
Speaker 1: this field that's completely open. It was dry, like a
Speaker 1: dried up late that grew up, and the closest we
Speaker 1: could get was about a hundred and ten yards, and
Speaker 1: so we were hoping that they would come around, and
Speaker 1: the closest one of the cows came around was probably
Speaker 1: like ninety yards somewhere around then. And so then we
Speaker 1: were trying to debate how to handle this, and so
Speaker 1: he said, you know what, this is not gonna work
Speaker 1: because the cow, the cows, and the bull seemed to
Speaker 1: be moved being in a general direction of away from us.
Speaker 1: They weren't awhere. We were there. It took a long
Speaker 1: time to crawl there. So he says, let's just get up.
Speaker 1: We'll go back and then they'll know that we're there.
Speaker 1: And then I'm going to wolf at him through the trees.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna follow him through the tree line and
Speaker 1: wolf at him. And he followed him through the tree line,
Speaker 1: and this one lone bull hit me with the noise
Speaker 1: he makes. Who that's what he was doing. It was
Speaker 1: like he was like wolfing, almost like a dog before
Speaker 1: he starts. You know, they're like dogs in your house,
Speaker 1: like his warm up, his warm up mark, like your
Speaker 1: dog woke up in your bedroom and he kind of
Speaker 1: hears something different. Yeah, my dogs used to do that
Speaker 1: when they would hear coyote in the distance, but hey, man,
Speaker 1: shut the funk up. So when uh so, when he
Speaker 1: wolfed they started, he was paying attention, he was moving
Speaker 1: towards He goes man, he goes to give this guy
Speaker 1: another week or two, and he would come charged at us,
Speaker 1: like what's up. When he said, I didn't know that
Speaker 1: that was a Yeah, it's a thing. It's a thing.
Speaker 1: So we uh we we settled with stalking and ambushing.
Speaker 1: So like the whole thing was just like get it,
Speaker 1: finding them that they didn't know you were there, and
Speaker 1: then slowly creeping around edges without them noticing you and
Speaker 1: get to a place where and eventually the way I
Speaker 1: got the Neil guy was he spotted this group of
Speaker 1: bulls and um they were there, were with these turkeys,
Speaker 1: and they were around the edge of this corner, but
Speaker 1: only about like a hundred yards around the edge, and
Speaker 1: I was like, that's so close. We could just get
Speaker 1: to that corner. I think we could sneak up close
Speaker 1: enough to get a shot. And so we did that
Speaker 1: and we got about ninety yards away, and then we
Speaker 1: went into the woods and then we got I got
Speaker 1: to about maybe like seventy or eighty and then I
Speaker 1: cree real slowly the rest of the way, But it
Speaker 1: was just very fortunate because the bull had his butt
Speaker 1: to me completely had no idea I was there. The
Speaker 1: turkeys knew, and they started they started like what what's happening?
Speaker 1: What's going on? They were like moving around a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I was like, these bitches better not give me
Speaker 1: up because I was slowly creeping up to him. And
Speaker 1: then look at It was really exciting to hear. For you,
Speaker 1: those moments, the spotting stock moments are so exciting because
Speaker 1: like when the animal turns and goes broadside and you're like, whoa,
Speaker 1: now is the time It's like this is like who who.
Speaker 1: It's like your heart starts beating and your adrenaline starts
Speaker 1: kicking and you're like, okay, keep it together, keep it together.
Speaker 1: I should point out real quick, uh that when I
Speaker 1: brought up the bow hunt Vanila guy, there's like a
Speaker 1: second complication is uh, we'll get into this, but there's
Speaker 1: the first complication that our friend was that it's hard
Speaker 1: to get close to him. You know, it's just hard.
Speaker 1: The second thing is is there uh. I don't want
Speaker 1: to say it's regarded as a no note to try
Speaker 1: to get one of the bowl. But like anyone that's
Speaker 1: a familiar with Nil guy, when you talk about with
Speaker 1: the bowl, they're kind of like, yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: because you know, they can really take a hit and
Speaker 1: they want to run. They don't want to bleed. And
Speaker 1: what what's the hell is the word they used for
Speaker 1: the brush patches? Here? Man? It's not like mot what's
Speaker 1: the word mott? No, it's not what Brad? Yeah, what
Speaker 1: the hell is that? Uh? Like a brush patch kind
Speaker 1: of maybe a little elevation and he calls it the month?
Speaker 1: They like any like the brushy areas? Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: got your senderos, senderos and months, Yeah, the roads and
Speaker 1: if it's not a Sindero, it might be what's the
Speaker 1: giant opening at an opening? Oh, the the plan Grande?
Speaker 1: What the hell's that? That means the great plane? Okay?
Speaker 1: And then everything else is the the brush, the month,
Speaker 1: the Yeah. The fear is that you're gonna hit the
Speaker 1: nil guy in his his ask is gonna run into
Speaker 1: this brush, which is this serious brush. And that's exactly
Speaker 1: what happened. When I was explaining to you how thick
Speaker 1: that brush is. My kid chased the turkey into that brush,
Speaker 1: and the turkey got snagged up at the brush and
Speaker 1: couldn't fly away. They got a turkey got tangled up
Speaker 1: in the brush. That's crazy, some thick ass brush. So
Speaker 1: you're you're trying to hit one, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of like, it's not like, it's not that you're gonna
Speaker 1: wing it and assume you'll find it. No, No, there was.
Speaker 1: It was fraught with peril. When it wound up working
Speaker 1: out well, I said to you at the end of
Speaker 1: the night, when I was very relieved that we got
Speaker 1: the nil guy, I was like, I think I might
Speaker 1: be one and done with bo hunt and nil guy.
Speaker 1: I'm stressful. I think you want to hit these suckers
Speaker 1: with a rifle. Because Jason was to tell me then
Speaker 1: when he hits one, Jason, great guy. I love him.
Speaker 1: So Jason was saying that when he has a client,
Speaker 1: he'll have one in the chamber so and then the
Speaker 1: client hits it, and he'll hit him after the client
Speaker 1: hits it. Gun hunt, gun hunt, that's super common. I've
Speaker 1: I've watched it. I've actually watched it in this pasture.
Speaker 1: He didn't tell me that until we were trying to
Speaker 1: find blood and there was no, by the ways, and
Speaker 1: when I hit the I've you know, I've seen animals
Speaker 1: run when you hit him before. I have never seen
Speaker 1: an animal run like this said, it was like a cheetah.
Speaker 1: Like a cheetah, That's what it's like. It was full clip.
Speaker 1: I mean they live in Asia, right, So what what
Speaker 1: part of Asia? And what kills them? Lions? No? No, no, no,
Speaker 1: what am I saying? Tigers from the Indian subcontinent in there?
Speaker 1: In there? Uh? Their historic predator is the the tiger.
Speaker 1: That makes sense. So they're like you've hunted, Access, dear.
Speaker 1: They are preposterously fast. I've never seen a thing move
Speaker 1: as fast as nothing like they're used to deal then
Speaker 1: cat exactly. I had an arrow. I have a video
Speaker 1: of me bow hunting on the nie and I shot this.
Speaker 1: This one Access tore this. He was pretty big. Deer
Speaker 1: was feeding at eighty yards away and there was no wind,
Speaker 1: and it was like perfect conditions, and I really didn't
Speaker 1: think I'd get closer to him, and I was feeling
Speaker 1: good about the shot. It was very relaxed. So I
Speaker 1: launched this arrow. This arrow is track and perfectly towards
Speaker 1: the vitals, and John Dudley gets it on videos. So
Speaker 1: he's filming this whole thing while it's happening, and we're like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be the greatest shot of all time
Speaker 1: because it's like a perfect shot. And then ten yards
Speaker 1: from this access dear, the arrow is ten yards away.
Speaker 1: He's like not today and ducks and he's completely out
Speaker 1: of the frame by the time the arrow gets to him.
Speaker 1: And I'm not exaggerating, you match, so you're talking about
Speaker 1: he's singing to himself in a couple of seconds, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna move because of this arrows like, oh jeesus, assholes
Speaker 1: shooting at me again. So I mean it's two hundred
Speaker 1: and you know whatever, two d seventy feet a second.
Speaker 1: This arrow is coming at him and from ten yards away,
Speaker 1: he's like see uh in that quick a time. And
Speaker 1: that's all because they evolve around tigers. Do you hear that?
Speaker 1: Do you ever hear that deal about I want to
Speaker 1: get back to everything with the nil guy, But you
Speaker 1: ever hear that explanation? And I've talked about it before
Speaker 1: of like how how things experienced time being that when
Speaker 1: you go to smack a fly in your mind, you're
Speaker 1: like you're cocked back, you know, you're like a tiger. Right,
Speaker 1: You're like what, But in the fly, in his mind,
Speaker 1: he might be like, oh, what is this thing coming
Speaker 1: towards me? Right right right, I'm probably gonna need to
Speaker 1: move out of the way. Oh yeah, it's coming. Well,
Speaker 1: he's only a weak flies only alive for a week,
Speaker 1: so it might be that he might experience that week
Speaker 1: like you do your eighty years. Yeah. Yeah, like there's that,
Speaker 1: There was that, There was that one day where that
Speaker 1: hand was coming down. Oh boy, let me get out
Speaker 1: of the way. He experienced He relished it like a
Speaker 1: roller coaster. Yeah, enjoyed it. He's like I sometimes like
Speaker 1: to wait till it's really close. You know what always
Speaker 1: freaks me out about flies is how quickly they find
Speaker 1: a dead animal. It is so fast, like when when
Speaker 1: when an animals down, especially when there's a gut pile.
Speaker 1: It is instantaneous, like hundreds of flies out of nowhere,
Speaker 1: Like where were you? Guys? Don't even It wasn't like
Speaker 1: you were following me around. I didn't notice. It was
Speaker 1: like a fly infested area. It didn't seem like very flying.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, there's flies everywhere, so
Speaker 1: you creep. So I'm creeping up on this Neil guy.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't the best situation because I've had a problem.
Speaker 1: I have this, uh, this bow site that I really
Speaker 1: like for a lot of good reasons. It's a garment, uh,
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a range finding bow site. And
Speaker 1: what's interesting about it is instead of having a range
Speaker 1: finder and a site, it's all built into one. And uh,
Speaker 1: you you at full draw. There's a button on my riser.
Speaker 1: I hit the button and a dot goes onto the
Speaker 1: animal and then it shows me a pin. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: the dot it doesn't project to me. It doesn't projective.
Speaker 1: There's a lens, so you're looking through lens just like
Speaker 1: you're looking through like a traditional range finder, but it's
Speaker 1: it's like the size of a bow site lens. It's
Speaker 1: much larger, you know, like a like a the best
Speaker 1: way to describe it, like a small sunglass lens, Like
Speaker 1: if you had a sunglass and you're looking through that
Speaker 1: and when you press a button, it gives you a dot,
Speaker 1: just like a range finder gives you a dot where
Speaker 1: you know you're you're pointing it at the area you
Speaker 1: want to hit, and then it gives you a number.
Speaker 1: It's got a little screen above it. It'll say like
Speaker 1: fifty three in this case, it was fifty three yards,
Speaker 1: and then it shows you a pin. Well, in this
Speaker 1: it's it's been fucking up lately, and I I hit
Speaker 1: the button and it ranges. It's just fifty three yards
Speaker 1: but no pin, and I'm at full draw ranges. So
Speaker 1: you know, the moment when an animal turns broadside, you're
Speaker 1: trying to stay calm because you know this whole process
Speaker 1: of creeping up on him takes like twenty minutes or so.
Speaker 1: So during that time, your your whole you're like trying
Speaker 1: to keep your heart right down and breathing and just
Speaker 1: like slow and steady. And when I get the shot,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay like this nice and calm. And so
Speaker 1: then is it trying to give you It's not trying
Speaker 1: to make a judgment. It's not giving me sh It
Speaker 1: is that like two times in a row. This has
Speaker 1: happened before, and it's not normal, but it's happened before
Speaker 1: on targets where I pressed the button and nothing happens,
Speaker 1: and I pressed the button and so I had to
Speaker 1: press it three times and finally gives me a pin.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, here we go. So I'm at
Speaker 1: full draw for a few seconds, and this is a
Speaker 1: very heavy boat. It's a ninety pound bow. So it's
Speaker 1: okay because there's a lot of let off, but you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm thinking now, like, jeez, how long can I
Speaker 1: hold this here? Like? How long is this gonna let
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have to let down? All these thoughts
Speaker 1: in my mind, and then finally I get the pin.
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, here we go. Can you hold it
Speaker 1: there for a second? Yes? Why um, you shoot a
Speaker 1: ninety pound bow? Why? I think I've always wondered, is
Speaker 1: skinny ask guys like me, guys that could beat my
Speaker 1: ass in the fight? Why do so many people in
Speaker 1: your view hover at around like seventy pound drawways? Well,
Speaker 1: seventy pounds drawways comfortable to pull and if you don't
Speaker 1: lift weights, and if you're not a physically strong person,
Speaker 1: that's achievable. It's like you you can get there. I'm skinny,
Speaker 1: ask guy that lifts weights. But I feel, like I said,
Speaker 1: like people that could beat my ass, they're also shooting
Speaker 1: a seventy poundbo which is it wasn't common like it
Speaker 1: was like through my whole life it wasn't common to
Speaker 1: hear someone pulling a ninety poundbo It's not common now
Speaker 1: is more common. I was just watch a video about
Speaker 1: this is that they were doing reviews on eighty pound
Speaker 1: bows and uh, the reason why I switched to a
Speaker 1: nineties just because Cam did. Cam Haynes switched to a
Speaker 1: ninety and he had White made him a ninety, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll try it. Let me try that ninety
Speaker 1: and it. I had a PSC that was last year
Speaker 1: and it was just too much. It was John Dudley
Speaker 1: tried to make the most ridiculous bow for me, you know,
Speaker 1: because he works with PSC. So he made a PSC
Speaker 1: pound bow with a very short brace hite and if
Speaker 1: you were accurate, it was ridiculous. But it was not
Speaker 1: forgiving at all because the brace site was very short.
Speaker 1: And for for people who don't know, the brace side
Speaker 1: is the distance between the riser and the string, And
Speaker 1: if you have a good brace hide, like like seven inches,
Speaker 1: that's like more forgiving than five inches. And this was
Speaker 1: more like five inches. And but it would shoot a
Speaker 1: five hundred and thirty grain arrow three feet a second,
Speaker 1: which is really crazy, really fast, and the impact like
Speaker 1: the kinetic energy is incredible, like and you saw yesterday
Speaker 1: with that nil guy, I mean total passed through. From
Speaker 1: looking at the animal, Uh, it was it was a
Speaker 1: quartering away. I hit it through the ribs, went through
Speaker 1: its entire body and out the front shoulder, full clean
Speaker 1: pass through and then the arrow was like thirty yards
Speaker 1: away when we found it. So we found the arrow cold.
Speaker 1: When when I found the arl, I was pretty confident
Speaker 1: and I was like that arrow is just soaked with
Speaker 1: blood that and I was pretty confident in the hit,
Speaker 1: but I was not confident when I saw that sucker run.
Speaker 1: When I hit him, I was like whack. I'm like
Speaker 1: that looks good. And watching them run, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no, like it's going so fast. It was going
Speaker 1: so fast. It was crazy full clip like I mean
Speaker 1: I don't know how many miles an hour, but he
Speaker 1: looked like it was going a hundred. It was just ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And it was like then when they are running, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so I don't want to say it's extra terrestrially. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you kept saying, it's like some ship from Avatar.
Speaker 1: He didn't like a big there, like I don't know
Speaker 1: what the hell. I like a like a a short
Speaker 1: necked draft, a more athletic draft. Yeah, it didn't seem
Speaker 1: like you should be able to run that fast if
Speaker 1: he got hit good, because if you hit an elk good,
Speaker 1: like they get what like the arrow it hits some
Speaker 1: they'll buck up and then they'll run off. But you
Speaker 1: could tell their hurt. I could not tell at all
Speaker 1: that he was hurt, like it made him healthier. It
Speaker 1: was like it's super charged him, like their will to
Speaker 1: live is insane, and it must be because they evolve
Speaker 1: around tigers. It has to be. So this sucker full
Speaker 1: clip runs off and all I could do is just
Speaker 1: sort of watch where he was going. And I was
Speaker 1: hoping that was gonna see signs of stumble and then
Speaker 1: fall down because it was you know, he ran. Uh
Speaker 1: would you say it's about a hundred and thirty yards
Speaker 1: to where like I did a line distance on on accident?
Speaker 1: Was line distance a hundred and thirty? You know, he
Speaker 1: didn't take a securitist route to get there. It's kind
Speaker 1: of what you know, a slight arc. Yeah. So and
Speaker 1: when I saw the arc, we saw the arc, and
Speaker 1: then we started gritting, We started trying to figure out
Speaker 1: where he was me and Kran had that sh all wrong.
Speaker 1: We're far off, yeah, but I was like, man, it'll
Speaker 1: be three in the morning, but we're gonna cover this
Speaker 1: entire By the time we're done, we'll haven't covered everything.
Speaker 1: I turned a track function on and I was telling Crane, okay,
Speaker 1: now move over twenty yards or whatever the hell was
Speaker 1: when to come back. And it would have been about
Speaker 1: three in the morning. We got over to where he
Speaker 1: gets where well Jason had We had looked and he
Speaker 1: had an application on his phone that showed a grid
Speaker 1: of like it's the track track function. I can't remember
Speaker 1: what app he was using. So there was just one
Speaker 1: small area where he realized we didn't look earlier, and
Speaker 1: he went and looked there and he was just lying
Speaker 1: right there. But you know about that dude, Like he's
Speaker 1: good because I don't know if you noticed too when
Speaker 1: when I got the deer, I got a deer, and
Speaker 1: I was kind of a little nervous. I was like,
Speaker 1: there's no blood, but I mean I saw the it
Speaker 1: was coming on. I saw the broadhead and the arrow
Speaker 1: coming off of his back hip like it ran the
Speaker 1: entire length of but there's no blood. And I'm like
Speaker 1: questioning what I saw, and I said to this guy,
Speaker 1: this is the guide the guides out here. I said
Speaker 1: to him, I'm like, man, he kind of went like
Speaker 1: and I showed like where he went, and it was
Speaker 1: like he wasn't listening to me. He swings way left
Speaker 1: and goes here it is, yeah, Like I was like, what, Like,
Speaker 1: what possibly were you going on? You aren't even here.
Speaker 1: He was asking you, though, Did hear what he was
Speaker 1: asking you? He was asking you what side you hit
Speaker 1: it on. He's like, if you hit it on the
Speaker 1: right side, it's gonna go towards the left. That's the
Speaker 1: one thing he said. He was right. I show him
Speaker 1: where it went in. I was like kind of like front,
Speaker 1: like kind of strong quartering towards me in the front shoulders.
Speaker 1: So he just strikes off that way and almost like
Speaker 1: like magnetically drawn to it, like right there. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean he's It's guides are interesting because you spend that
Speaker 1: much time just constantly around these animals. I think you
Speaker 1: get a sense of them that I just don't have.
Speaker 1: He's he does like he has a regular job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he finished concrete. He has a concrete business. I think
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, it's just my part time dealing Like, well,
Speaker 1: how much eighty guys a year. I'm like, okay, well
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a lot of that's a lot of.
Speaker 1: He loves it though. He loved the sneaking in on him,
Speaker 1: like he got all excited about it. It was was fun.
Speaker 1: It was interesting that he when he got here and
Speaker 1: I was here, I was really curious to hang out
Speaker 1: with him. I'm like, you know, I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: know the first thing about Neil guy. I've done it
Speaker 1: a couple of times with a rifle, which is totally
Speaker 1: different experience because he's basically go out, look for one
Speaker 1: and shoot it and that's how that goes. Uh So
Speaker 1: I was really curious to see, like how could one
Speaker 1: consistently get up close on him. But it's funny is
Speaker 1: he didn't jump out of his truck to be like,
Speaker 1: here's why I have a black shirt and a black
Speaker 1: cowboy hat on right, I just good man and black.
Speaker 1: Johnny cash fan doesn't come out and I was like, like,
Speaker 1: you might be wondering why. Now here's a cool guy,
Speaker 1: fun guy to talk to. All the minute I met him,
Speaker 1: I talking to a couple of sackers. I went until John.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this guy is cool, it'll be fun. You
Speaker 1: always you always nervous. It was real fun. And you
Speaker 1: know when we're going around the corner, when I was
Speaker 1: creeping up on the nil guy, uh he laid back
Speaker 1: to He's like yeah, I was like slow it down.
Speaker 1: It was like, this is just better if it's just
Speaker 1: one of us, because like you know, the turkeys and
Speaker 1: all this ship. I'm like so so he just hung back.
Speaker 1: Was he giving you a bunch of input on do
Speaker 1: this and don't do that when it comes time to
Speaker 1: shoot it. No, No, he told me where their organs are,
Speaker 1: but I had already knew that. I had done a
Speaker 1: bunch of research online. There they are. All their stuff
Speaker 1: is closer to the front than um than um like
Speaker 1: an elk or a deer, which is interesting. They're they're
Speaker 1: built differently. Yeah. Yeah, so he told me that, but
Speaker 1: I had already I was already aware of that. But uh,
Speaker 1: I think I really do think on one and done
Speaker 1: with bo hunting them. Watching the way he ran off,
Speaker 1: like you just that I hit him perfect. It was
Speaker 1: a great show, not a back of blood nothing. And
Speaker 1: and even when we got up to it, you probably
Speaker 1: noticed this we got up to it. The in hole.
Speaker 1: There's an in hole and there's an out hole. There's
Speaker 1: no blood stain on its body. Yeah, it wasn't until
Speaker 1: we were we rolled it up. It wasn't until we
Speaker 1: rolled it up that and then by that point it
Speaker 1: had been dead for forty minutes. Wasn't ntil we rolled
Speaker 1: it up that some blood trickled out and there was
Speaker 1: clean It looked like someone had washed it. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: It was just a little bit of dribble. It was
Speaker 1: coming out of the hole, but a little bubble, but
Speaker 1: none of it was on the ground. Zero on the ground.
Speaker 1: And you gotta also think about that arrow that we found.
Speaker 1: So we find this arrow. It blows through his body,
Speaker 1: so he's quartering away. It hits his ribs, goes through
Speaker 1: the entire this large body, cavity goes through the entire body,
Speaker 1: cavity out the front shoulder, goes thirty yards past his body.
Speaker 1: Nothing sprays out, nothing, zero, no, and the the arrow
Speaker 1: is soaked with blood. Not thing comes out of his body.
Speaker 1: I was like, what a strange animal like, this is
Speaker 1: so strange. But the sheer panic that I had when
Speaker 1: I've seen him run that way, I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: and I was It was almost like it's playing tricks
Speaker 1: in me, like maybe I didn't hit him good, like
Speaker 1: maybe I hit him bad, maybe I hit his foot
Speaker 1: or maybe, you know, maybe maybe I'm delusional like I
Speaker 1: thought it was. I had the pen right where I
Speaker 1: wanted to. My arm was steady, the release was good.
Speaker 1: I hear swack when he hits his body, and like
Speaker 1: I got oh no. That was like literally the thought
Speaker 1: process like I got him. I didn't even finish got
Speaker 1: him because I got oh my god, look at that
Speaker 1: sucker go PM just full clip and then he just
Speaker 1: ran until he was gone. It was both of his
Speaker 1: lung so he uh, he just expired from a lack
Speaker 1: of air within a hundred thirty yards. So he probably
Speaker 1: covered that hundred thirty yards in ten seconds too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's the funny thing about when you're when you
Speaker 1: do get into a bad situation, you're trailing something, you
Speaker 1: lose sight of, um, what it took to cover the
Speaker 1: distance versus what it took you to cover the distance.
Speaker 1: So if you have a really bad blood trail and
Speaker 1: you find it a little speck and a little speck
Speaker 1: in a while later, you know you're into it. Forty
Speaker 1: five minutes, you haven't started circling X. You don't want
Speaker 1: to mess up, you don't want to stamp out any
Speaker 1: blood because you want to keep the trail intact. And
Speaker 1: you know, forty five minutes later, you realize you're a
Speaker 1: hundred yards away, and you're like, I don't it seems
Speaker 1: like you're on this journey. What do you think about
Speaker 1: your mind? That was seconds seconds, seconds, so it didn't
Speaker 1: bleed for seconds. Yeah, but you're making all these you know,
Speaker 1: all this wild ideas about what's going to happen on
Speaker 1: down the blood trail or whatever. You know. I remember,
Speaker 1: like being a real little kid man in a like
Speaker 1: my dad would go hunt, or my brothers, or when
Speaker 1: I got older, I would go to when I once
Speaker 1: I turned twelve and goold bow hunt, just going on many, many, many,
Speaker 1: many blood trails, and it'd be like someone had hit
Speaker 1: a deer. Everybody come home, you'd eat dinner, You get
Speaker 1: the Coleman lanterns out and ship and spend an hour
Speaker 1: trying to get those things going, get all the lanterns
Speaker 1: and walk out on the blood trail, and it'd either
Speaker 1: be that everybody look and they couldn't find any blood,
Speaker 1: and you get the sinking feeling like two, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be here ntil two in the morning on the fall
Speaker 1: asleep out in the woods. This is miserable, or it'd
Speaker 1: be like someone went through the woods of the spray
Speaker 1: can of red paint and it'll just be euphoria. And
Speaker 1: I still carry with me so much to that, like
Speaker 1: when it's when you can't find blood, you're like, it
Speaker 1: ran right through here and you can't find blood. I
Speaker 1: still can never shake that just sinking feeling. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was how I felt. But on the flip side, when
Speaker 1: we got back to the house after we found him,
Speaker 1: we got back to the house, it was the greatest
Speaker 1: feeling in the world. It was like, I'm so relaxed
Speaker 1: because I don't have that dread of like not being
Speaker 1: able to find this animal. And the worst case scenario
Speaker 1: would be you find him, like you ran four or
Speaker 1: five yards, but now the meat is no good. Now
Speaker 1: he's just dead for no reason. It's hot ash and
Speaker 1: it's it's like you don't have you can't even joke,
Speaker 1: like even in cold weather, you're kind of like with
Speaker 1: the elk, will go find him in the morning. You're
Speaker 1: kind of bullshitting yourself because a lot of it will
Speaker 1: be good, but you're you're gonna lose a lot. You're
Speaker 1: gonna you know, like even if it's fifty degrees you
Speaker 1: can go find in the morning, like it's something it's
Speaker 1: there's gonna be parts that are gonna be not there's
Speaker 1: parts that are probably gonna spoil um. But here you
Speaker 1: wouldn't even be able to kid yourself. Yeah, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: kid yourself. Turkey buzzards and coyotes and just whatever. If
Speaker 1: we found him in the morning, it would be a mess,
Speaker 1: would be a bloated pile. Yeah, it would be horrible.
Speaker 1: I mean it was like it's probably eighty degrees yesterday, right,
Speaker 1: But hey, can you tell the story about the guy?
Speaker 1: Are you allowed to tell that story about the guys
Speaker 1: that killed the havelna's for for ships and giggles? Oh
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So there in Texas you can kill to
Speaker 1: ha alina's a year and there's no tags or anything,
Speaker 1: and there they are a game animal. And so because
Speaker 1: they're a game animal, there's waste of meat their native wildlife. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to retain the meat. And this is anecdotal,
Speaker 1: but I heard this story. I might I think I
Speaker 1: read it, maybe even like maybe it was on the
Speaker 1: game warden blotter or something like maybe I dreamed it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: at this point I'm completely mistrusting it now that i'm
Speaker 1: that's a great story. I like it, and if it's
Speaker 1: not true, I think it should. I think a game
Speaker 1: warden should keep this one in his back pocket. It's
Speaker 1: a fable at least, it's you know, it's cautionary tale
Speaker 1: about going out and shooting a bunch of havelinas and
Speaker 1: dragging them to the gut pile, which is game warden
Speaker 1: checked on some hunters and ask if they shot anything,
Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, we' just got some havolina's. I'm
Speaker 1: putting words in their mouths right now. Uh. And he's like, well,
Speaker 1: where's the meat and they're like, oh, we didn't, we
Speaker 1: didn't take any. We just drug him out to the
Speaker 1: gut pile. And it was, you know, two or three
Speaker 1: days it transpired. And he's like, no, they're that's game animal.
Speaker 1: You have to harvest the meat from him. And he
Speaker 1: made them go after the fact, out to the gut
Speaker 1: polling quarter. These uh, rotten swollen I'd like it only
Speaker 1: the thing that would make the story better is if
Speaker 1: you grabbed him by the ear, took him by the
Speaker 1: ear and dragged him out. I really want to know
Speaker 1: what it tastes like. Yeah, you can make a taste
Speaker 1: like meat by depending you know, trees or whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's what I'm gonna do. Get theresa made
Speaker 1: with it. So if you don't, if you say you
Speaker 1: want to, if you you don't, you wouldn't hunt nil
Speaker 1: guy again. Okay, that's all is gonna ask you. How
Speaker 1: how um how not interested in gun hunting already? I
Speaker 1: did like the archery stuff so much. I don't not
Speaker 1: like gun hunting. I do like gun hunting. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: like both. Yeah, yeah, well, I mean one of the
Speaker 1: things that people don't want to admit people that are
Speaker 1: archery hunting enthusiasts is that it's not the best way
Speaker 1: to hunt. It's like, the most ethical way to hunt
Speaker 1: really is with a rifle. Like if you're counting black,
Speaker 1: if you're counting like greatest likelihood of the quickest death, yes,
Speaker 1: like I had uh Like I hunted to Hone Ranch
Speaker 1: last year and I had a really lucky first day.
Speaker 1: I was with Evan Hafer, and Evan shot a nailk
Speaker 1: on the first day, and I shot at nilk on
Speaker 1: the first day, and uh, I was supposed to be
Speaker 1: there for six days, so uh they had pig tags
Speaker 1: that were available, so it's like, all right, let's go
Speaker 1: do some pig hunting. And they're like, you want to
Speaker 1: do rifle or bow? And I said, you know what,
Speaker 1: let's go. Let's go rifle. Let's go for fun. And
Speaker 1: I shot a pig at eight yards and he died
Speaker 1: where he stood. Boom, it went through him. He just
Speaker 1: fell over dead, smoke coming out of his mouth, and
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, I go, this is so
Speaker 1: much more effective. Like if I shot that that pig
Speaker 1: with a with a bow, he would have taken off
Speaker 1: and it would have probably been you know, we have
Speaker 1: to go find him, and you're going under because in
Speaker 1: uh a lot of these ranches, you know where the
Speaker 1: pigs will live as you have like heavy bush and
Speaker 1: they get into the bushes, and so he probably would
Speaker 1: have went in there and I probably would have had
Speaker 1: to crawl in and drag him out, and then I
Speaker 1: probably would have hoped that he was dead while I
Speaker 1: was doing this. And tunnels, yeah, like equation, but you know,
Speaker 1: like in Vietnam when he had to take a pistol
Speaker 1: and flashlight and going to those tunnels us not in
Speaker 1: any way saying the same thing, but I seen hog tunnels,
Speaker 1: which you're like, oh god, yeah, and usually not want
Speaker 1: to get one on one with a hog with a knife.
Speaker 1: Oh it was a good bore too. I mean he
Speaker 1: had good tusks and he was a big sucker. Um.
Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to rifle hunting as a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: Like if if it got to a situation where I
Speaker 1: was so busy that I didn't never that's not true
Speaker 1: that it's never gonna happen. It was would never be
Speaker 1: a situation where I never have enough time to go
Speaker 1: on like real long hunts. I'll make sure at this
Speaker 1: point in my life because just because I enjoy it
Speaker 1: too much, and it's it's such a break for me.
Speaker 1: It's such a like a cleansing of all the other
Speaker 1: stuff on my mind, you know, when like say, when
Speaker 1: you and I were there, you're rattling and I got
Speaker 1: an arrow knocked, and my head's on a swivel. I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking about jack shit, no anything other than what's
Speaker 1: going on. Um. But I think rifle hunting is more.
Speaker 1: It's more effect div, it's probably more humane, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's just there's a reason why they invented guns.
Speaker 1: They're better than bows. But in terms of satisfaction, the
Speaker 1: animals that I've killed with my bow are the most.
Speaker 1: They're hard. It's harder to do. It's just much harder
Speaker 1: to do. Like that fifty three yard shot that I
Speaker 1: hit that nil guard with, that's easy with a rifle.
Speaker 1: I could do that off hand with a rifle, no problem, confident.
Speaker 1: But with a bow, it's like, you know, there's so
Speaker 1: much going on. I'm gotta to be steady, breathe out,
Speaker 1: don't rush the shot, pull through it, the shot breaks.
Speaker 1: Everything was perfect. But everything was perfect because of hundreds
Speaker 1: and hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice. If you
Speaker 1: gave me a rifle, I haven't shot a rifle in
Speaker 1: a year. If you gave me a rifle right now,
Speaker 1: I'm a hundred percent confident I could shoot a nil
Speaker 1: guy at fifty three yards off hand. Yeah, I hope. So. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's a better weapon. But I think
Speaker 1: that people confuse when people talk about ethics, are oftentimes
Speaker 1: confusing two things there's there people be like, well, I
Speaker 1: like to hunt with the books. It's more ethical. It'd
Speaker 1: be like, it's more challenging, challenging, it's more challenging. So
Speaker 1: that's great, But that's not you assessing um, that's not
Speaker 1: you assessing in in in weighing. However, one chooses the
Speaker 1: way animal like the welfare and well being likelihood of injuring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I meaning if you really want to get down to like,
Speaker 1: like to take a commercial slaughter plant, how do they
Speaker 1: when they're like, hey, we want quick death, we're gonna
Speaker 1: be ethical, what are they gonna do. They're not gonna
Speaker 1: shoot with the bowl. They're gonna take a pneumatic bolt
Speaker 1: and punch of I don't want is a three quarter
Speaker 1: diameter stainless steel rod all the way through its brain. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they'd be like, that's humane. Yeah, I thought archery
Speaker 1: hunt was humane, Like archie hunt's hard. Yeah, it's sorry.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a restaurant in Austin and they serve
Speaker 1: a lot of wild game meat in a lot of
Speaker 1: antelope and stuff like that, and this guy was telling
Speaker 1: me that one of the things that they do is
Speaker 1: they they hire snipers and that these snipers shoot these
Speaker 1: animals in the brain. They shoot him in the head,
Speaker 1: and uh, they're like, and Jesse, you could tell me
Speaker 1: about this. How much does it affect the flavor if
Speaker 1: an animal is stressed out, Like if an animal gets
Speaker 1: hit and runs and has that adrenaline rush. How much
Speaker 1: of an impact does that have on the taste of
Speaker 1: the meat. It can be huge. Um, I mean I
Speaker 1: think for that reason. You know, there's I mean, a
Speaker 1: rifle shot has a more likelihood of bringing it down
Speaker 1: immediately in the case of a big bore or any
Speaker 1: animal like that. You're the larger the animal, the more
Speaker 1: likely it is it's gonna run. Um, you know, even
Speaker 1: debilitating shot from a rifle. But I think stresses, along
Speaker 1: with just any kind of bacterial contamination, stress is going
Speaker 1: to be one of the contributing, main contributing factors to
Speaker 1: having it tastes stronger. Um. You could like different textures
Speaker 1: in the meat, you know, the lactic acid build up,
Speaker 1: stuff like that. And anecdotally, Um, you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: seen hogs shot versus caught in a snare, identical hogs.
Speaker 1: I might have even told this story on your podcast. Uh,
Speaker 1: and how well the one that was caught in the
Speaker 1: snare was inedible, and they were There was two styles,
Speaker 1: probably about eighty pounds each. They could have come out
Speaker 1: of the same litter. One dropped with a spine shot
Speaker 1: and one was so exhausted when we came up to
Speaker 1: her she was in a snare that she couldn't even
Speaker 1: stand up when we walked up there. Uh and and
Speaker 1: that one was one of the worst tasting pigs I've
Speaker 1: ever I've ever seen. And so I mean, I can
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not a lot of data right there.
Speaker 1: It's totally anecdotal. Plus like I got a couple of
Speaker 1: things that like to add and I don't want to
Speaker 1: in any way discredit your explanation. And you didn't say
Speaker 1: anything that's inaccurate. But we have twice. Who's that dude
Speaker 1: we had on from Purdue Chris Calkins. Was he Calkins
Speaker 1: or Caulkins? I can never call because we got one
Speaker 1: that works for us, same damn name, But they're like
Speaker 1: insistent that they on that. I think it's whatever the
Speaker 1: hell Calkins Caulkins the same spelling as the other guy
Speaker 1: we hang out with the likes it the other way.
Speaker 1: So Calkins or Caulkins. Is it Chris it is? He's
Speaker 1: a meat scientists. He's just a meat scientists from Purdue University.
Speaker 1: He's come on the podcast twice to explain. He did
Speaker 1: a great job. Like all that ship like, okay, what
Speaker 1: is when something stressed? What is it that we're talking about?
Speaker 1: All the ship with rigor mortists, like all the ship
Speaker 1: with temperature after death, all the ship with hang time,
Speaker 1: hang position, um, Like why do you hang it upside down?
Speaker 1: Why hang it by its neck versus by it's hot X?
Speaker 1: What happens when you bone meet out? What you're not
Speaker 1: allowing to happen when you bone it out warm and
Speaker 1: it hasn't gone through rigor on the tendon? And a
Speaker 1: lot of shit about stress, like what exactly chemically is
Speaker 1: happening to an animal that's stressed. He does a great
Speaker 1: job explain. I mean it's this whole subject to research
Speaker 1: his whole career and um like slaughterhouse practices and all
Speaker 1: that kind of ship. He does a great job on it.
Speaker 1: The snaring hogs. I have a half dozen hogs snares
Speaker 1: that I've had that I've owned for over a decade,
Speaker 1: dying to use them. Um, have never used him. I
Speaker 1: had a guy that that is a wildlife control guy
Speaker 1: in Hawaii that does pig removal. He said, the number
Speaker 1: one problem with using snares for hog removal is that
Speaker 1: people think they want the hogs gone until they got
Speaker 1: to listen to a hall are gonna snare all night.
Speaker 1: Then they'd lose their interest in having the hogs be gone.
Speaker 1: So that you're talking about stress, it'll have people be like,
Speaker 1: never mind, get the snares out of here. I can't
Speaker 1: handle it. Wow all night? Yeah, I can imagine. You know,
Speaker 1: we get I mean at the restaurant, we serve ferrell
Speaker 1: hog that's been inspected. So that hog was caught in
Speaker 1: a big trap. So they went in the trap. It
Speaker 1: was having a treat and then then the gates drop
Speaker 1: and so that's it. That's a big stressor right there.
Speaker 1: And you've ever seen the videos, they go nuts. They're
Speaker 1: trying to get out any which way. Okay, they're stressed out. Okay,
Speaker 1: Now a trailer is gonna back up, a monster is
Speaker 1: gonna pull up, you know, a diesel monster with the
Speaker 1: trailer is going to back up. And now all these
Speaker 1: hogs get escorted, you know, like on you know, like
Speaker 1: prodded by little monsters that get out and make them
Speaker 1: get up there for their first car ride, their first
Speaker 1: car ride down the highway, down the highway. That stress. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the world or you know there, it's just like
Speaker 1: a world. It's it's a it's a trip into outer
Speaker 1: space for them. They're going down the highway and then
Speaker 1: they get to their destination and what does that smell like?
Speaker 1: It smells like death and they get put in this
Speaker 1: holding pen for however long it is before feral hog
Speaker 1: processing day, which at our processor I believe is every
Speaker 1: It's either every week or every other week, so they
Speaker 1: might be in there for for a while. Um. But
Speaker 1: the thing is is that these hogs never tastes uh
Speaker 1: like with within the attributes that you would assume that
Speaker 1: a large amount of stress would would give them. They're
Speaker 1: fine at that point. So maybe there's some sort of
Speaker 1: plateau that happens where they're gender, they're they're acutely stressed,
Speaker 1: and then they're generally well, isn't it a different thing
Speaker 1: you're talking about. You're talking about not just stress with
Speaker 1: that snared hawk, you're talking about lactic acid. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: physical struggle is probably very different than just a psychological stress,
Speaker 1: but the adrenaline stress versus lactic acid. I would imagine
Speaker 1: when you're fatigued to death, like literally, like you can't
Speaker 1: move when you know that people are coming to get you,
Speaker 1: that's probably just an enormous amount of lactic acid through
Speaker 1: the system. I gotta I got a question for you, Jesse.
Speaker 1: We get a lot of people right in who are
Speaker 1: confused by what they censor. These big, big contradictions in
Speaker 1: wildlife management, particularly around the sale of wildlife parts. Okay,
Speaker 1: a couple of examples to be if you can't sell
Speaker 1: wild game, which is generally true, like you generally can't
Speaker 1: sell wild game, why can you buy a taxidermied head?
Speaker 1: Why can you buy an antler? Okay, and that would
Speaker 1: be like that's like by product, not the meat in
Speaker 1: that explanation. Why can you sell beaver meat to sled
Speaker 1: dogs for for sled dog food? Why can you sell
Speaker 1: a beaver's fur if you're not allowed to sell wild
Speaker 1: game be like, well, because that lives under a different
Speaker 1: regulatory structure, which is it's a fur bearer, it's it's
Speaker 1: not technically a game animal. Why can you sell fish?
Speaker 1: Why can people go to the ocean sell fish. If
Speaker 1: you can't sell wild game, that's fisheries. It's like historically
Speaker 1: been under totally different regulatory structure than wild game. Why
Speaker 1: can you sell bear grease as a hair dressing but
Speaker 1: you can't sell bear grease as a food additive? It
Speaker 1: would be because you can't it's a game animal. You
Speaker 1: can sell by product for non food. I'm speaking very
Speaker 1: general terms. You can sell by product for non food
Speaker 1: and purposes the same way I could sell you a
Speaker 1: bear hide, my old taxidermy I didn't want any more,
Speaker 1: But I couldn't have sold you edible food item marketed
Speaker 1: to you as bear meat. So there's all these like
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's complicated. It frustrates people that it
Speaker 1: doesn't make clean sense. There's too many things that sit
Speaker 1: outside of the rule, right, it's hard to understand how
Speaker 1: the rules even came to place. But how in the
Speaker 1: hell if I go into your restaurant, how can I
Speaker 1: go in and buy nilgai and they're not they're they're
Speaker 1: they're not fenced in there, they're not domestic, Or how
Speaker 1: can I go and buy a wild pig? Like, how
Speaker 1: does that? How does that not fly in the face
Speaker 1: of this whole no wild game thing. Texas has different
Speaker 1: laws with invasive species. They have different laws with introduced species,
Speaker 1: like species from Asian Africa. You could buy them, they
Speaker 1: sell them like they sell cattle. But yeah, but they
Speaker 1: can't go out of the state like like and you
Speaker 1: they can, okay, like break it down from me, give
Speaker 1: me break give me the version of how you get
Speaker 1: a nil guy and what the rules are, and how
Speaker 1: you get a pig and what the rules are and
Speaker 1: what can't you do, like you can't right now, like
Speaker 1: maybe you can. Could you go right now and shoot
Speaker 1: a nil guy? Got it out and sell in your restaurant? No? Okay?
Speaker 1: So that that's what I'm like, I'm not okay, I
Speaker 1: know you're not breaking law. Explain it to have an inspector.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna let's break the pigs and uh and
Speaker 1: then everything else into two different categories. And we'll start
Speaker 1: with the like the noil guy specifically. So these big
Speaker 1: ranches down here, you know that, you know along the
Speaker 1: South Texas coast where the nil guy are well, often
Speaker 1: if they need to call out a bunch of cows
Speaker 1: will hire an outfit, and that that outfit is generally
Speaker 1: broken arrow as a female nil guy correct, sorry sorry,
Speaker 1: uh broken arrow ranch out of Ingram, and they'll come
Speaker 1: down here and they'll shoot no guy from helicopters. UM.
Speaker 1: And the whole process has to be done very correctly
Speaker 1: with a with an actor there. Since they're going over
Speaker 1: state lines, they're going to be U. S D A
Speaker 1: UM and so there they'll come down. They'll they'll take
Speaker 1: maybe eighty in a day. UM. And then they have
Speaker 1: these big refrigerated trailers and this crew that rolls down.
Speaker 1: What shots are they going for? Shooting head shots? Shooting
Speaker 1: head shots with presumably like from a helicopter, head shots
Speaker 1: of the rifle. And then they will process everything under
Speaker 1: inspection and then we'll take it back to their facility
Speaker 1: in Ingram, which is in the hill country. And from
Speaker 1: there they ship all over the country. And they're probably
Speaker 1: the pre eminent supplier of wild game and especially like
Speaker 1: high quality wild game. Uh. And they do uh different species.
Speaker 1: There's access. Sometimes you can get things like I believe
Speaker 1: they sell follow and maybe red deer, but they can't
Speaker 1: do with white tails. Correct, you can't do it because
Speaker 1: that's native game. It's native and it's a protected game species.
Speaker 1: Now I know there's white tail farms, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know of any in Texas and I don't know
Speaker 1: the regulation around that, but you I think they can
Speaker 1: be farmed here. Plenty of other species that will fill
Speaker 1: that void, and they're typically invasive, and so it's it's
Speaker 1: best to utilize that as a resource. So your NIL
Speaker 1: guy in your access um we at the restaurant, we've
Speaker 1: had nil guy access Red David Pear, David, I'm Red
Speaker 1: Deer Pear, David Um even all dad that were cold
Speaker 1: off of off of ranches. So when it's in your restaurant,
Speaker 1: it's been inspected on the ground correct. So and that's
Speaker 1: since they're distributing beyond state lines, that's U s d A. Now, conversely,
Speaker 1: you've got feral pigs which are trapped live like we
Speaker 1: just described that process, and they're brought into a facility
Speaker 1: in Fredericksburg where they're inspected by a state inspector because
Speaker 1: he's not going to distribute the correct an anti mortem inspection,
Speaker 1: so before they're killed. All pigs are done that way.
Speaker 1: All Ferrell Hawgs, Yes, and so they can be either
Speaker 1: state or U. S d A. If they're not going
Speaker 1: over state. Lions they don't need to be U. S
Speaker 1: d A. And since his most of his distribution is
Speaker 1: probably to us AT, you know, and then a few
Speaker 1: other places, he's not gonna mess with the kind of
Speaker 1: the burdensome regulations that having a U. S d A
Speaker 1: inspector in your facility comes with. You know, so your
Speaker 1: hogs and your restaurant live trapped, live trapped, state inspected,
Speaker 1: state inspected, they have a blue Texas stamp on them,
Speaker 1: got it. But there is a there is a way,
Speaker 1: there is an avenue well federal inspector to then have
Speaker 1: the you have Texas wild hogs federally inspected can go yes,
Speaker 1: And that's also common. So I mean most most Ferrell
Speaker 1: hog and Ferrell hog products in the United States are
Speaker 1: probably coming from Texas. Yeah, And so they're they're going
Speaker 1: to be acted under. Do you know when they inspected,
Speaker 1: what they're looking for obvious signs. I know they're looking
Speaker 1: at the inside of the They're gonna be looking at
Speaker 1: the organs for indications of for what they would call
Speaker 1: condemn they would condemn that animal um and then I
Speaker 1: think just general health while it's on the hoof, you know,
Speaker 1: just make sure it's not lame or showing obvious signs
Speaker 1: of being sick or anything. And then there's some there's
Speaker 1: something on the inside of the ribs I remember hearing about,
Speaker 1: and then the an organ inspection and then it's good
Speaker 1: to go after that. UM. But Broken Arrow is U
Speaker 1: s d A and they also do Ferrell Hawk. God,
Speaker 1: so they're USDA Farrell Hawk because their distribution is wider
Speaker 1: and so and they do it. They do a phenomenal job,
Speaker 1: like the quality of the me the aging process UM.
Speaker 1: They do that electro stimulation UM and then they age
Speaker 1: everything really appropriately at the at the facility and then
Speaker 1: it's it's overnight. It it's it's an incredible company. Can
Speaker 1: you buy? Like if you as a restaurant guy, Uh,
Speaker 1: can you buy? Is it just cheaper for you to
Speaker 1: buy domestic pigs? By the time all that ship's done,
Speaker 1: it's about the same price. Yeah, you think Farrell Hoggs
Speaker 1: would be dirt cheap. But because of the the trap,
Speaker 1: the trap, the trapper, the gaspel, the trailer, the processing,
Speaker 1: the distribution, UM, it's not set up in the same
Speaker 1: structure and it's not as efficient, so it does and
Speaker 1: you know, incur a bit of costs and so at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, a heritage breed pig, a
Speaker 1: large black red wattle, uh, and Ferrell hog are going
Speaker 1: to be about the same price. I gotta I gotta
Speaker 1: last question for you, Joe, where, um, where are you
Speaker 1: at as a home cook? And how has like game
Speaker 1: meat sort of change your thing? And what what's your
Speaker 1: family's attitude towards you know, the all the all the
Speaker 1: game you guys eat. They love it because we eat
Speaker 1: so much. Um. But um, where I'm at is uh, Well,
Speaker 1: one thing I did is uh, I started cooking everything, like,
Speaker 1: not everything, but most of what I do, I cook
Speaker 1: very slowly on a smoker. I usually use a trigger,
Speaker 1: but I recently bought an actual Texas offset smoker, which
Speaker 1: I'm excited to do. You're saying someone made you one
Speaker 1: up that you're excited about. Yeah, yeah. And I also
Speaker 1: got one of those Argentine steak grills, which is great.
Speaker 1: So I really got into wood, uh, cooking over wood.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've always loved like cooking on a trigger
Speaker 1: because I think it doesn't part like a flavor of
Speaker 1: wood to the food. But actual wood burning wood is
Speaker 1: next level and there's there's a convenience factor. Oh that
Speaker 1: the trigger is amazing. It's just the fact that I
Speaker 1: can tell my kids, tell my kids like listen, yeah,
Speaker 1: I checked my phone and it tells you what temperature
Speaker 1: the meat is. That's incredible. But there's also these probes
Speaker 1: called meter prob Yeah, those are great, and you know
Speaker 1: you could use those and those also you can check
Speaker 1: on your phone. It gives your projection and when you're
Speaker 1: gonna be it's a pretty good projection to due to be.
Speaker 1: Like I really like there's something about cooking over wood
Speaker 1: actual wood too, that gives you there's this caveman thing
Speaker 1: inside of you. It's like fire food. Like I remember
Speaker 1: the first time we hunted in Montana. That was I
Speaker 1: never I never killed an animal and I certainly never
Speaker 1: killed a him. Uncooked it over a fire like a
Speaker 1: camp fire, Like this is the greatest ship in the world.
Speaker 1: Like this this is like whatever it is, Like we're
Speaker 1: talking about this the other day that this is like
Speaker 1: a door that you can open up in your brain,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even know this door was there, Like
Speaker 1: I don't even know this was an area of my house,
Speaker 1: Like what's in here? And it was like the oh,
Speaker 1: you just hunted and killed something and now you're gonna
Speaker 1: eat it door and uh, And I was like, this
Speaker 1: is my favorite room, Like this is my favorite room
Speaker 1: of the house. I don't even know it existed before.
Speaker 1: And that's what it feels like when I cook when
Speaker 1: it while I'm sitting there outside and I've got these
Speaker 1: elk steaks and I basted them in olive oil and
Speaker 1: I've got some some sea salt on them, and I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting them on this grill and the fires crackling
Speaker 1: and the smoke is lifting up and I could smell it.
Speaker 1: I'm in my glory. I'm having so much fun. I'm
Speaker 1: so relaxed. Maybe I have a glass of wine. I'm
Speaker 1: just chilling with my dog. It's the greatest thing in
Speaker 1: the world. And then the taste of it is so fantastic,
Speaker 1: and um, it does impart part that smoky flavor. And
Speaker 1: my favorite way to finish them, I like to do
Speaker 1: a reverse here with game me. I've tried a bunch
Speaker 1: of different methods, but to me, especially when it comes
Speaker 1: like with elk steaks, um, the best result that I've
Speaker 1: ever found is a slow temperature like two five degrees
Speaker 1: somewhere in that range until it hits about a hundred
Speaker 1: and ten hundred and twenty internal and then a really
Speaker 1: hot cast iron pan with with beef tallow and then
Speaker 1: I see it on the outside. But what do you
Speaker 1: but you're not talking, su Vie, like what are you
Speaker 1: doing to get it up to that initial town? I
Speaker 1: just with the Argentine grill I have, you know, so
Speaker 1: you're indirect with monitoring the temperature and the thing. That's
Speaker 1: what's very nice about the trigger because it's very uh
Speaker 1: very like you could set you set to twenty five.
Speaker 1: It gives you to like it's going to keep it there.
Speaker 1: It's really good at that um that you can do
Speaker 1: that with the with an Argentine grill or a smoker,
Speaker 1: just a little bit more fiddling around with it um
Speaker 1: and then you know, so that's slow cook to get
Speaker 1: it up to like and then searing it. That's my favorite.
Speaker 1: But I also like to you know, cook things like
Speaker 1: stir fry things with eggs. I like to do that.
Speaker 1: That's what I'll do with like ground elk. But I
Speaker 1: feel a lot of ground elk to my dog. That's
Speaker 1: it's really like dog food is like what are you
Speaker 1: feeding your dog? Like? What's in that? Like did you
Speaker 1: have any idea, Like it's like if you love your dog, like,
Speaker 1: would you give your friend that? Like what's in there? Like?
Speaker 1: So even if you buy expensive dog food, I'm always like,
Speaker 1: what's how I never investigated. I've never gone to a
Speaker 1: dog food plant and see how they put it together.
Speaker 1: I'm sure I'd be horrified. But what I know is
Speaker 1: the difference between the way he reacts when I put
Speaker 1: dog food down and the way he reacts when I
Speaker 1: put ground elk down. He goes bonkers. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: not like you can't stop eating the he just dives
Speaker 1: into the food. So you know the thing, the thing
Speaker 1: we do with I don't even call my dog, my
Speaker 1: wife kids dogs. You don't like dogs. I think that's
Speaker 1: so weird that you don't like dogs. How could you?
Speaker 1: How could you not like this? Because dogs tell you
Speaker 1: real quickly. It's not that I don't like him. I
Speaker 1: don't understand what they do all day, Like what what
Speaker 1: because Kyle Kyo wakes up, the Kyle wakes up the morning,
Speaker 1: a fox wakes up in the morning, a wolf wakes
Speaker 1: up in the morning. Some bitch has ship on his agenda. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they have to, because they're a dog. I come
Speaker 1: home and I'm like, yeah, to come home. The dogs, Like,
Speaker 1: what do you been doing all day? He don't have
Speaker 1: to do. It's just just chilling. It's just like the
Speaker 1: only thing in the house that doesn't have a you know,
Speaker 1: if we're taking the news up, then then I'm like, Okay.
Speaker 1: When we take the dog out, you know, I get okay,
Speaker 1: he's up to something. Have you tried leaving him a list?
Speaker 1: It's not that I don't like Listen, my kids like.
Speaker 1: My kids like the dog more than they like me.
Speaker 1: Brings endless joy to the world. All that I told him,
Speaker 1: I said, listen, that dog isnt gonna last that long.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, don't tell him that, Jesus Christ. But anyways,
Speaker 1: here's why, here's why I'm actually nicer to the dogs
Speaker 1: than anyone else's. I anytime I braise something, uh or
Speaker 1: any kind of boiled stuff, I save just the jugs
Speaker 1: of the liquid and I put and I put a
Speaker 1: couple of slugs of that boiled meat water Already want
Speaker 1: to call it that dog. It turns that dog's attitude
Speaker 1: around about anything in its bolting. If I'm home and
Speaker 1: I'm every day dose in its food, whatever like enhancing
Speaker 1: its food with that boiled meat liquor. It'll, uh, if
Speaker 1: I'm not there, they won't touch its food. It'll it'll
Speaker 1: starve itself into eventually wanting to approach that food again.
Speaker 1: But then like do you ask, like you like live
Speaker 1: a lot, I'll live around. Young animals are old stuff. Uh,
Speaker 1: I chop it, boil it. Dog loves it. And we
Speaker 1: had we had someone on the show. Reason they're explained.
Speaker 1: The more they all their lungs, all their kidneys, they
Speaker 1: make their own dog food. My dog reacts to liver,
Speaker 1: like exponentially more than he reacts to even ground elk.
Speaker 1: Liver is the king with him. I give him a
Speaker 1: piece of liver, like the just the desire in his eyes.
Speaker 1: He sits staring at me, and my dog is like
Speaker 1: the furthest from like a killer that you could have.
Speaker 1: He's a golden retriever. He's just a big love sponge.
Speaker 1: You know, he's the best. But like if he well
Speaker 1: he's a killer of squirrels. I'll tell you that that's
Speaker 1: his number one job. Like he just goes out and
Speaker 1: tries to kill squirrels and he only gets one like
Speaker 1: every four or five months, Like every four or five months,
Speaker 1: I'll get a squirrel. One time I came home from work.
Speaker 1: It was funny. I came home, I let him outside
Speaker 1: to open up the door, and I took a leak,
Speaker 1: and uh, in the time it took me to take
Speaker 1: a leak, I come out and he's standing there with
Speaker 1: a squirrel in his mouth, like, look what I got,
Speaker 1: And it just like recently dead squirrel. And I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of conflicted. I'm like, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't want to cook it and eat it because it's his,
Speaker 1: and I don't want him to eat it because I don't,
Speaker 1: you know. I'm like, all right, let's uh, let's take
Speaker 1: that from you, buddy. He wanted to he wanted me
Speaker 1: to know, you know. But other than that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like he's out there like taken down. Well,
Speaker 1: he actually did chase a deer. We had to deer
Speaker 1: in my yard, and I've never seen him chase after
Speaker 1: anything like you chased after these deer. The fact that
Speaker 1: he can differentiate between a deer and any other four
Speaker 1: legged animal, like a dog who's his friend. Like if
Speaker 1: he saw a dog, he'd be like, hello, dog, you're
Speaker 1: my friend. But those deer. He's like full clip chasing
Speaker 1: after me. He actually chased him into the neighbor's yard
Speaker 1: and came up big hullabaloo. Our our dog chases dear,
Speaker 1: but it got the ship kicked out of it by
Speaker 1: turkey's a couple of times. And now like if that
Speaker 1: dog is doing something bad and that look at it
Speaker 1: and look the other way like it's like it thinks
Speaker 1: that if if it doesn't make eye contact with me,
Speaker 1: it'll be like better. And when there's turkeys around in
Speaker 1: the yard, that dog tries to look at him and
Speaker 1: tries to act like it's not looking at it looks
Speaker 1: at the turkeys at the corner of its eyes. He's
Speaker 1: like a bully at the bus stops. Like something tells
Speaker 1: me I have to chase him. But jes those things,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do you do you do big bones, big
Speaker 1: game bones for your dog? Um? I did this year?
Speaker 1: This year, Um I did. Uh. I have a lot
Speaker 1: of elk bone marrow that I can't wait to that
Speaker 1: actually just got back. We chopped him up and uh
Speaker 1: you met Ryan that was at the UH when he
Speaker 1: was helped me hang up the skulls and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: He delivered it to me, so I'm I'm gonna give
Speaker 1: it to him. But we made a mistake of I
Speaker 1: didn't know that you're not supposed to give a dog
Speaker 1: a bone once that bone has been baked. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, because they demolish it. I got swallow and
Speaker 1: then it jams up there inttional. Well yeah, I got
Speaker 1: a bunch of trouble about that ship, so with my family,
Speaker 1: because she's like, I got sick, was vomiting up a
Speaker 1: little bone. So now if I hand that dog a bone,
Speaker 1: she immediately goes to the door. She's got her head
Speaker 1: like I gotta get away before someone takes it from me,
Speaker 1: and she'll then she'd be like suck it, and she'll
Speaker 1: go under the table to eat the bone. So now
Speaker 1: when I give her a bone, I tell the kids,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna give the dog a bone, it's your
Speaker 1: job to take it away from it before and it
Speaker 1: gets the good pieces off, but before she starts just
Speaker 1: consuming bone fragment. So you still give her bones that
Speaker 1: have been cooked, only under supervised circumstances. I won't even
Speaker 1: mess with it anymore because I think even under supervised circumstances,
Speaker 1: if they break a piece off and swallow it. You're
Speaker 1: not gonna be able to stop that from happening. You
Speaker 1: should only give him raw bones. I learned that out
Speaker 1: the hard way. But thankfully he's okay. But yeah, um,
Speaker 1: I'm doing a bone marrow this year, which I'm really
Speaker 1: excited about for the dog or for a year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing, Like if you can put those the bigger
Speaker 1: bones to put them in a vice and then take
Speaker 1: a saw down and then build up a big coal
Speaker 1: bed and then just drop them cut side up right
Speaker 1: in the coals, like roast him in the bones and
Speaker 1: just salt on top of that. Yeah, it's great. Like
Speaker 1: we'll even take a band saw or um, you know
Speaker 1: I have I have a Milwaukee Uh they come a
Speaker 1: porter band like a portable band saw, and I like
Speaker 1: to it's clean. You might you might not like this idea.
Speaker 1: It's clean, but I freeze them, yeah, and then cut
Speaker 1: them frozen because it's just so clean that way. Caught
Speaker 1: them frozen, and then I put a little I just
Speaker 1: lay him on a foam in the oven on a
Speaker 1: cookie sheet and do like your top about and a
Speaker 1: cross cutter cross no cross cutting, not boats, little disks.
Speaker 1: And then if you're feeling real sexy. I'll take a
Speaker 1: little sprig of a little sprig of time and make
Speaker 1: it like a little tree grown out. So it's got
Speaker 1: a little tree grown out of it, and he put
Speaker 1: salt on that ship's good. So to answer your question,
Speaker 1: I have some of the bones for him, some of
Speaker 1: the bones from me, the ones where it doesn't look
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna get much marrow out of them, you know,
Speaker 1: a little skinny leg portions. When you get those to him.
Speaker 1: Families cool on game, they love it. Yeah, but my
Speaker 1: kids have been eating wild game for I mean I
Speaker 1: started hunting with you ten years ago. Oh, so they
Speaker 1: never had to go through the like just normal to them,
Speaker 1: just normal to them. Yeah. I mean my one daughter
Speaker 1: was four, my other one was too at the time,
Speaker 1: so you know, like I never had to talk about it. No.
Speaker 1: She She used to love telling her friends that her
Speaker 1: favorite thing to eat was bear because I use your
Speaker 1: recipe of bear candy. Oh yeah, really good, inspired off
Speaker 1: of p F. Chang's Mongolian bees. O. God, it was
Speaker 1: so delicious. It was so delicious, and we cooked it
Speaker 1: over rice, you know, I served it rather over rice.
Speaker 1: Forgot it was so good, and then it was their
Speaker 1: favorite thing ever. They loved it. But obviously it's very sweet,
Speaker 1: you know, the sugar involved in it. But you know,
Speaker 1: so when they told their friends at school, like you
Speaker 1: should have seen my friend's face, they're like, what's your
Speaker 1: favorite thing to you know? I like bear and they're like,
Speaker 1: kid's house I love. I remember one time when we're
Speaker 1: living in Seattle and I sent my kid down to
Speaker 1: school though muskock sandwich, and I remember saying, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing I guarantee has never happened.
Speaker 1: Every bought the muskock sandwich down to your school that
Speaker 1: you can bet on, I mean, all the things you
Speaker 1: can bet on that you can bet on. But what
Speaker 1: a crazy animal that is? I mean, that's that's another
Speaker 1: animal that I feel like, if you hunted that sucker
Speaker 1: with a bow, you better keep an eye on it.
Speaker 1: You don't even find any blood. How how's it even
Speaker 1: gonna drip any blood out all that crazy fur. The
Speaker 1: upside is there's no vegetation. There's vegetation. It's ankle high,
Speaker 1: and their their impulse isn't the whole ass. There would
Speaker 1: be more like you know we're talking about yesterday. If
Speaker 1: you oh, you know, I don't think we're rustlers, but
Speaker 1: we're amusing about if you arrow the cow right right right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: be a while, but you don't go where you're probably
Speaker 1: gonna find it. Yeah, it'll be it'll go over and
Speaker 1: stand over there. Yeah. And with the muskocks you do
Speaker 1: with the white surface to you can go hundreds of
Speaker 1: yards and I'll just be standing here watching it. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a good time. And there's a when I
Speaker 1: hunted muskok um on. I did it one time where
Speaker 1: I drew up tag to hunt muskots on noon Nevak Island,
Speaker 1: uh with the chupic eskimo. And I always like to
Speaker 1: point out that when they're butchering the muskoks, they will say,
Speaker 1: this is a good part. It's chewy. H And where
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a good part, it's tender. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They like that. They're like, oh, I like the neck
Speaker 1: because it's chewy. Have you ever seen where anthropologists break
Speaker 1: down and biologists break down the problems that people are
Speaker 1: having with their jaws and their teeth and crowding of
Speaker 1: teeth in the diminishing of size of the lower jaw. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that the dentist and early twentieth century went around and
Speaker 1: documented native peoples around the world and there, I mean,
Speaker 1: the healthiest ones were the ones eating like high meat diets,
Speaker 1: followed by high fish diets, and then it just went down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not just health, it's actually the physical shape of
Speaker 1: the jaw. But it was attributed like general health started,
Speaker 1: I mean, his whole thing was started with the jaw,
Speaker 1: and you're in the shape of the teeth. So ea,
Speaker 1: Chewing tough meat was always a part of humans, and
Speaker 1: that's the reason why we look at like a robust,
Speaker 1: square jaw as being something that's attractive genetically. That's someone
Speaker 1: who's had good meat you've been chewing. Now, if you
Speaker 1: look at people that live in areas we eat a
Speaker 1: lot of porridge and a lot of like mush, they
Speaker 1: developed fucked up teeth and they have like these little
Speaker 1: tiny ass jaws, and that's malnutrition. And it's it's also
Speaker 1: attributed to this notion that your jaw developed up in
Speaker 1: accordance to the amount of meat that you have to
Speaker 1: break down. He's got a good, strong jaw. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: isn't that fine, But that's what that's. Yeah, and there's
Speaker 1: a guy named mew um I forget. His last day
Speaker 1: was first name around there, but his last name is
Speaker 1: Mew And he's a dentist, and he was trying to
Speaker 1: figure out I believe he's dentist, but he's a doctor.
Speaker 1: He's trying to figure out, like what is causing this
Speaker 1: um grouping of teeth like to be smashed in together
Speaker 1: and all all funked up, and what's causing them? And
Speaker 1: is there a way to mitigate that? And so he
Speaker 1: developed a method called mewing. And this method is where
Speaker 1: you're like literally pressing your tongue down. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know what the method is, um exactly, I've never
Speaker 1: tried it, but this, uh, this, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that have actually changed the shape of their jaw
Speaker 1: through mewing, because it turns out your your jaw is
Speaker 1: actually some thing that can be manipulated. It's not like
Speaker 1: all the other bones like you you can buy this method.
Speaker 1: There's like before and afters where people can like make
Speaker 1: their teeth more spaced out. His idea was like this
Speaker 1: thing of like just use braces, Like why why is
Speaker 1: it happening? I wonder why is it happening? Why are
Speaker 1: the teeth bunching? Up, and his belief is that they're
Speaker 1: bunching up because people don't have access to difficult things
Speaker 1: to chew, where the jaw gets like more robust. One
Speaker 1: thing you'll notice with weightlifters too, um and and people
Speaker 1: who clamp down on mouthpieces a lot, like over the
Speaker 1: course of time, they will develop a thicker jaw. Like
Speaker 1: it's something that that happens to you from Like if
Speaker 1: you think about it, like a lot of people lift
Speaker 1: weights with um mouthpieces. Um, it's really good idea. Actually,
Speaker 1: weeth develop microfractures. I might have microfractures almost all when
Speaker 1: I used to when I used to booze it up
Speaker 1: too much partying. Um, that was one of the things
Speaker 1: that the microfractures in my teeth because I clenched my
Speaker 1: jaw at night. That's such a weird thing, so hard
Speaker 1: it'll hurt so um. These weightlifters that do that that,
Speaker 1: like bite down on mouthpieces, it actually makes your jaw
Speaker 1: thicker and stronger, to the point where there's a product
Speaker 1: that you can buy. I actually have. It's called jaws
Speaker 1: or size, and it looks like like a golf ball
Speaker 1: maybe with like two divots in it where your teeth
Speaker 1: slide in and you put it in your mouth and
Speaker 1: it's weightlifting for your mouth. So you put this thing
Speaker 1: in you like this and you're crunching down on this
Speaker 1: rubber ball. Yeah, so you can go. You abs gluten
Speaker 1: and your job and it makes your job muscles stronger,
Speaker 1: which would be really good for a fighter because like
Speaker 1: part of the problem is the jaw being dislocated and
Speaker 1: moved it. It's like that's one of the ways you
Speaker 1: get knocked out. You get hit in the jaw. And
Speaker 1: if your jaw is more sturdy and it's more muscle there,
Speaker 1: it might prevent you from certain knockouts when you protect
Speaker 1: you rather so if you're if you if a fella
Speaker 1: is doing that, you put that in and it's like
Speaker 1: you gonna spend ten minutes or whatever. Yeah, you would
Speaker 1: do it like you know, you do sit ups in
Speaker 1: the morning, do your jaw, do sit ups, work your
Speaker 1: jaw muscles, do your chin ups, do your push ups,
Speaker 1: do your calistenics, whatever you do, and also do your
Speaker 1: jaw and there's there after what's that No, a ball gag.
Speaker 1: It's the opposite because it's like to hide how he's
Speaker 1: trying to hide how jack his jaws. Everybody's gonna think
Speaker 1: he's been messing with that ball. Funny thing, the desire
Speaker 1: for a square jaw. But it's it. Uh. They believe
Speaker 1: it really has to do with people not eating tough
Speaker 1: meat anymore, because you know, primarily are diets at one
Speaker 1: point in time where when we were hunting gatherers, if
Speaker 1: you were successful, your diet was meat. If you were unsuccessful,
Speaker 1: your diet was bullshit. You know, like you just were
Speaker 1: just surviving on you know, whatever little berries and ship
Speaker 1: you could eat, and you didn't have strong jaw muscles. Um, totally, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to chew on like, did you get No, No,
Speaker 1: I got the thing I wanted to mention. Get one
Speaker 1: of them. Jaws are sized things, Like it's really cool.
Speaker 1: I forgot there's the thing I wanted to mention, which
Speaker 1: is the the coolest word. Then we gotta cut some
Speaker 1: deer up and we got a long drive. Right. But
Speaker 1: don't remember me telling you the other day when I
Speaker 1: was on your show, I was telling me about the
Speaker 1: book I'm reading about the guy that traveled with the
Speaker 1: guy that was assigned to the black Feet by the
Speaker 1: Hudson Bay Company. Uh, I'm probably gonna hit people with
Speaker 1: a million tidbits. It's out of this book. It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: The word their word for a moose, which is somewhat
Speaker 1: of a rarity in their area. Their word for a
Speaker 1: moose six s so six So I'm not pronouncing it right,
Speaker 1: I'm sure sixty so phonetic um. Black going out of sight.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That's so poetic, like a big black rump
Speaker 1: going outside, vanishes into the willow, black going out of sight.
Speaker 1: She is so good, man. I heard a word. There's
Speaker 1: a there's a native word. I don't I don't even
Speaker 1: know what tribe. There's a Native American word they called
Speaker 1: the bitter Root. So they were west of the bitter Roots.
Speaker 1: So they were in the Pacific drainage, the Continental the
Speaker 1: Continental divide. The other side of that was the land
Speaker 1: or like the place beyond which there are no salmon. Ah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have the place of salmon and place. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's all you need to know. Did you got me
Speaker 1: into I went on to kick a couple of years
Speaker 1: back of like multiple books on Native Americans. Um, because
Speaker 1: I read uh Empire the Summer Moon, and I told
Speaker 1: you about it, and you're like, that's good. But you're
Speaker 1: at this and then you turn me on to Sun
Speaker 1: of the Morning Star. Oh my god. This books are
Speaker 1: so heavy. And when you read those books and then
Speaker 1: um Black Elk Speaks is another great one. You read
Speaker 1: those books and you just imagine the hard scrabble life,
Speaker 1: the difficulty those people faced, the horrors, the hardships. It's
Speaker 1: just it's amazing how that wasn't that long ago. But
Speaker 1: how soft we are now. We are so different, We're
Speaker 1: we're almost complete. If you Sam Bankman freed and then
Speaker 1: imagine him surviving on the planes with the comanches that
Speaker 1: he's might well, we can't fig Basically, Almita was moving
Speaker 1: and he's on amphetamines, and he weighs eight pounds. He's
Speaker 1: basically made out of the same texture of whatever his
Speaker 1: tissue is, like a jelly donuts. If you boil a
Speaker 1: moose joint, if you and then grab a handful of
Speaker 1: the sun comes off, that's a perfect that's a perfect disagreeation.
Speaker 1: He's mush um and his jaws non existent. I mean right, like,
Speaker 1: that's that's what a human is like. One of the
Speaker 1: most until this Ponzi scheme fell apart, one of the
Speaker 1: most successful humans amongst us, right, and number two donor
Speaker 1: to the Democratic Party like that, that's a that's a hume,
Speaker 1: a thirty year old, robust in his prime, male human being.
Speaker 1: Of there's a lot of there's a lot of candidates
Speaker 1: thinking like, I'm not gonna be getting that check again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a wrap. We're gonna have to fund ourselves through
Speaker 1: honest living. It's it's but it's it's amazing how quickly
Speaker 1: the world has changed and how quickly life has changed,
Speaker 1: and that what we're doing, you know, with this, I mean,
Speaker 1: we're doing a modern version of hunter gatherer. Right. The
Speaker 1: modern version is so much easier, like what I was saying,
Speaker 1: like about bow hunting, that it's rifle hunting is more effective.
Speaker 1: It's probably more ethical in that there's less of a
Speaker 1: likelihood of injury an animal, particularly if you're in a
Speaker 1: closer distance and you're proficient. It's easier to achieve proficiency,
Speaker 1: I think, although still very difficult to make no mistake about.
Speaker 1: And I think also let me just say this that
Speaker 1: rifle hunting on public land is probably more difficulty, more
Speaker 1: difficult than doing the kind of bow hunting that I enjoy,
Speaker 1: because bow hunting on private land you have more opportunities.
Speaker 1: These are more um, really wild animals in the sense
Speaker 1: that they're not pressured and they're not accustomed to being
Speaker 1: chased by human beings because there's much less of them,
Speaker 1: much different public land. There's a thing. I mean, I
Speaker 1: admire the people that are very successful in public land,
Speaker 1: and I admire that attitude that like, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: I got this done on public land. What bothers me
Speaker 1: is these animals are unnaturally pressured by swarms of people
Speaker 1: who go out there at a specific time of the year.
Speaker 1: I'm like, is that normal? Is that? Like they're not
Speaker 1: They're they're wild, right, but they're wild in this very
Speaker 1: strange sense where they're just constantly being fun with by
Speaker 1: people and they don't bugle anymore, and they kind of
Speaker 1: they're like kind of hiding. And it's just a totally
Speaker 1: different experience than if you were like Lewis and Clark
Speaker 1: and you were making a way across the country and
Speaker 1: you encountered like a herd of elk. I what I
Speaker 1: would give to be around back then, just to see
Speaker 1: what it was like. What was it like before there
Speaker 1: were cities, before there was you know, any sort of
Speaker 1: wildlife management, Just what was it, like I mean, and
Speaker 1: again not that long ago, just a few hundred years ago. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a couple of great books to understand that Osborne
Speaker 1: Russell's Journal, Journal of a trapp or whatever. Where the
Speaker 1: hell Osborne Russell's Journal, which is a lot of times
Speaker 1: there was a lot to eat and a lot of times.
Speaker 1: Ain't shitty that there's a book Land of Feast and Famine.
Speaker 1: Um like in the es living off land in Canada.
Speaker 1: It's like sometimes you can't there's so much you can't
Speaker 1: even process at all in a lot of times screwed. Well.
Speaker 1: That's also why a lot of those planes Indians they
Speaker 1: would find these massive herds of buffalo. It's like, look, gos,
Speaker 1: fuck stay and put where they go we go. Let's
Speaker 1: just keep moving and and fall behind. But what we're
Speaker 1: doing with this modern version of hunting and gathering is
Speaker 1: uh again what I said about like opening up that
Speaker 1: door in your brain, it is beyond It's the most
Speaker 1: satisfying way to acquire protein and to get meat and
Speaker 1: to feed your family. It's the best food that I've
Speaker 1: ever eaten, certainly in terms of nutrition, but even in
Speaker 1: terms of like taste. I absolutely prefer it to everything else,
Speaker 1: and you know, you and you bringing me into that
Speaker 1: has completely changed my life. And it's been ten years now,
Speaker 1: um since that first hunt that we went on, you
Speaker 1: know that was that was ten years ago this year
Speaker 1: and it changed every it was like ten years ago
Speaker 1: two months ago. Well, you and you introduced me to
Speaker 1: the idea of doing a podcast, so we're even yeah,
Speaker 1: well I'm glad you do because I like listening to it.
Speaker 1: But um yeah, again, it's like I'm very well, I'm
Speaker 1: very aware of even though uh compared to like a
Speaker 1: Sam Bank from mac bankman Freed, I'm like a completely
Speaker 1: different kind of man. But compared to the people that
Speaker 1: actually made their way across this country and people that,
Speaker 1: like whether it's the plains, Indians or the settlers, people
Speaker 1: that we're trying to hunt and gather in a time
Speaker 1: where you didn't have on X maps, you didn't have
Speaker 1: you know, you didn't have GPS tracking and both sites
Speaker 1: that ranged for you. And you know, it's what it's
Speaker 1: it's just amazing how far things have changed and how
Speaker 1: much things have changed. And I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: for the better or for the worst, but I know
Speaker 1: that for my life, if I can. The more I
Speaker 1: can introduce of being embedded into actual wild nature, the
Speaker 1: better I feel. Yeah, I don't think, and I've never
Speaker 1: thought that I'm approximating a a actual hunter gather experience
Speaker 1: as lived by hunter gatherers that were pre market environment
Speaker 1: like like like self like people that were in a
Speaker 1: self contained economy. However, it's like I do an activity,
Speaker 1: I engage in an activity, and I gauge in a
Speaker 1: dietary practice that has overlap, and my understanding of what
Speaker 1: I'm doing is very heavily is very heavily influenced by
Speaker 1: or enhanced by an understanding of how people did it.
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't equate them. You know, I
Speaker 1: could read all day about um ancestral hunter gathers like
Speaker 1: and and there, and I'll learn things that that make
Speaker 1: my experience better. But I'm not don't. I'm not learning
Speaker 1: tips and tricks. I'm learning that a way to think
Speaker 1: about a moose, okay, or it's just it's like a
Speaker 1: way to think about a movies like are the word moves?
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means m O O s E.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know to think about the experience of
Speaker 1: of a word that means black going out of sight.
Speaker 1: I'm like, fun, that's good, you know, it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's just it enhances like that bit of knowledge. I'll
Speaker 1: never live as the person that had that language. I'll
Speaker 1: never know what language meant to them. I'll never know
Speaker 1: what they felt when they saw a moose, But like
Speaker 1: that enhances my experience. But one thing that you are
Speaker 1: doing is you are letting more po bowle become aware
Speaker 1: of the benefits of eating that kind of food and
Speaker 1: living that kind of life and experiencing hunting in a
Speaker 1: modern context, and that that's it's it's fascinating to see
Speaker 1: that there has been a resurgence in hunting over the
Speaker 1: last few years. It's it's quite a bit of a resurgence.
Speaker 1: And I think there was also a resurgence during the
Speaker 1: pandemic that was a lot of people recognizing, like, hey,
Speaker 1: this whole supply chain thing and this is not as
Speaker 1: robust as I thought, This is not a stable as
Speaker 1: I thought. Maybe be a good idea to at least
Speaker 1: have some understanding of how to acquire food in the wild.
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm happy that there are so many people
Speaker 1: that are experiencing that. But for the people that are
Speaker 1: doing it, and they're doing it on public land, they're
Speaker 1: also realizing, well, boy, this is uh really ramped up
Speaker 1: the amount of people that are interested in doing this,
Speaker 1: and it's made it this thing that you enjoy doing
Speaker 1: so much more popular, and that means there's much more pressure.
Speaker 1: That means so this pros and cons to it, changing
Speaker 1: practices everything. Yeah, but my my take on that is like,
Speaker 1: I want more people to know about it. Is it
Speaker 1: going to cause problems, Yes, but it's gonna cause a
Speaker 1: lot less problems than if they take it away. And
Speaker 1: if less people do it, the more likely that it
Speaker 1: gets taken away, that the probability of that becomes higher
Speaker 1: and higher. And that that scares a ship out of me,
Speaker 1: because I've had conversations with educated, intelligent people and they
Speaker 1: were like, no one needs to hunt today, and and
Speaker 1: I'm like, you don't. You really have no idea what
Speaker 1: you're saying, And you have no idea where this this
Speaker 1: train of thought goes, and you you have no idea
Speaker 1: why it would be satisfying to those people. And I
Speaker 1: guarantee you if you went and you experienced it, if
Speaker 1: you're a meat eater and you say this this is
Speaker 1: a foolish notion that no one needs to hunt today.
Speaker 1: No one needs to hunt. Your right, you can go
Speaker 1: to the grocery store. But to say no one needs
Speaker 1: to hunt, like you should stop. You don't know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah, i'd even argue that man like needs,
Speaker 1: I don't. I guess needs is a weird word. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is hard because but they say it like you
Speaker 1: shouldn't do it. It will never happen in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: I sure should hope it don't. And I don't even
Speaker 1: know when I would hit the threshold. But if I
Speaker 1: had to, um if I lost faith, and how the
Speaker 1: regulatory structure if I lost faith, and how the regulatory
Speaker 1: structure is laid out like right now in the United
Speaker 1: States of America, across all fifty state game and fish agencies,
Speaker 1: a couple of plates like California. I'm beginning to have
Speaker 1: questions about Washington State. I'm beginning to have questions about
Speaker 1: But when I look at Jere, I'm like, I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm on board with wildlife management. I'm an advocate of it.
Speaker 1: The models we have UM as long as you're like,
Speaker 1: we want to have sustainable populations of wild game that
Speaker 1: can support limited harvest and we're gonna help and regulate.
Speaker 1: Are are citizens who want to participate in that harvest? Like,
Speaker 1: great if you do that, and you say that there's
Speaker 1: no uh, there's no elk tags this year. Elk tags
Speaker 1: are lower this year, and I can see that why
Speaker 1: that's the case, and like numbers are down and here's
Speaker 1: the factors. I'm okay, cool, totally on board, as long
Speaker 1: as it's managed by wildlife biologists. You're letting people vote
Speaker 1: on this stuff. That's what gets crazy. And that's what
Speaker 1: happened in Vancouver when they got rid of the grizzly hunt.
Speaker 1: You're letting people vote on it. They have zero experience
Speaker 1: with grizzlies, and they're not wildlife biologists. They don't know
Speaker 1: what they're voting on. They just don't want bears to die.
Speaker 1: So they're like, yeah, let's stop bears from dying. And
Speaker 1: so they vote on the idea that a person who's uninformed,
Speaker 1: who just happens to be a voting age can change
Speaker 1: wildlife management practices. That's insane and that should be separate.
Speaker 1: You should not be able to vote for that. You
Speaker 1: should be able to vote for if you think that
Speaker 1: the wildlife biologists are doing a bad job, and the
Speaker 1: the organization is doing a bad job. You should vote
Speaker 1: for politicians that want to hire better people and do
Speaker 1: a better job and fit and fix it and make
Speaker 1: it more more science based. But there's a lot of
Speaker 1: places where they're acting entirely on the whim of the
Speaker 1: public that are loathsomely uninformed. Yeah, I would like I
Speaker 1: hope it doesn't happen. I don't think it will happen
Speaker 1: in my lifetime. But I could picture becoming like I
Speaker 1: could picture rather than quit hunting, I to become a
Speaker 1: vigilante hunter, like the punisher. No, Like like an Elks
Speaker 1: call in your shirt. No, like the people that continued
Speaker 1: to drink during prohibition. If I was like, this is
Speaker 1: you know, it's misguided, it's a mistake, it's not coming
Speaker 1: from the right place, I guess I'm gonna be the
Speaker 1: kind of person that that made wine in their own
Speaker 1: bathtub during the prohibition. Yeah, that's when we vote in
Speaker 1: Ted Digit for president. That's when we go listen. Recruitment.
Speaker 1: That's why recruitment is so important. Like, right now, what
Speaker 1: you're doing is fantastic. Well, I mean hunters too, right,
Speaker 1: But what you're doing. Jesse's fantastic because you actually teach people.
Speaker 1: Now the best thing, man, the best thing is that
Speaker 1: is that you're never like it's never like you're not
Speaker 1: gonna if if we go by like sort of like
Speaker 1: a very rough understanding of democracy where it's like fIF right,
Speaker 1: it's not that it's not that you need hunters to
Speaker 1: win legislative battles. You need that because that's it's not
Speaker 1: going to be like all the hunters versus everybody else,
Speaker 1: because even in the best case scenario, you're gonna lose eight.
Speaker 1: It's the people that don't hunt. What do they think
Speaker 1: about it? Right? Well, a lot of people that that
Speaker 1: might hunt, especially in in this state in particular, they
Speaker 1: might go hunt once, but then you've they've opened the
Speaker 1: door and they've gone into the room that you were
Speaker 1: talking about, and then now they see that, and then
Speaker 1: they tell other people, and it's like that's how that
Speaker 1: they're less likely to bone you on the referendum. That's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, you know what, I used to think
Speaker 1: that hunting was on are unnecessary, But then I know
Speaker 1: someone that went and did it had the opportunity. They
Speaker 1: never would have had that opportunity before, and then that's
Speaker 1: how you're going to change the minds. I think it's
Speaker 1: just too I mean, because it's just education. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I've I've served a lot of bear meat to a
Speaker 1: lot of people that will never hunt a bear. They'll
Speaker 1: never hunt anything. I like to think I like to
Speaker 1: hope that they're sitting there and they go down to
Speaker 1: the vote or they're filling out their ship at their
Speaker 1: kitchen table, and they get to some part about well,
Speaker 1: it would you know, ban the ability to hunt bears,
Speaker 1: and you're looking at some shit about whether or not
Speaker 1: you should vote for some judge you never heard of before,
Speaker 1: and like how you feel about the millages increase? You know,
Speaker 1: you don't have any kids in school, and you're like,
Speaker 1: I feel like I should say yeah, but I don't
Speaker 1: have any kids in school. And then you get down
Speaker 1: to the one about some ship about band and bear hunting.
Speaker 1: I like to think they'd go like if I canna
Speaker 1: put down though, well, I think it's interesting with putting
Speaker 1: in New Jersey. You know, they brought it back. They
Speaker 1: brought it back. That guy ran on the premise, that's
Speaker 1: part of what he was running on. I'm the band
Speaker 1: the bear hunt that was part of his platform better education. Uh,
Speaker 1: no bear hunt, but the human human bearing interactions went
Speaker 1: up two hundred percent. They just extended the season good.
Speaker 1: I was gunning for that guy and he was one.
Speaker 1: Like I was like, if I could, if I could
Speaker 1: get one, if I could make one politician be voted
Speaker 1: out of office. I had it in my head that
Speaker 1: was gonna be that murder. That is the one of
Speaker 1: the most foolish things that governor has ever done. Because
Speaker 1: there's are there more black bears per capita in New
Speaker 1: Jersey than anywhere else in the state in the States,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that. I think that's true. And
Speaker 1: it was, and they totally screwed with their bear hunters,
Speaker 1: and they make the bear hunters go and check their
Speaker 1: bears at public places so that people would freak out,
Speaker 1: so you could make a media spectacle like when you
Speaker 1: go to check a bear like Montana for instance, Right, well,
Speaker 1: you check a sheep in Alaska, check a bear in Montana.
Speaker 1: You go to fishing game, you go inside, you notify
Speaker 1: someone that you have a bear to check. They have
Speaker 1: you drive around back, you go into the structure or garage,
Speaker 1: whatever the hell it is, and you privately conduct the
Speaker 1: investigation in New Jersey of like here ye hear ye,
Speaker 1: all bear hunters will be bringing their bears down to
Speaker 1: s X rest area, come on down and down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they made it like a nightmare. God, so those people
Speaker 1: are mandatory checking. But they turned it into like a
Speaker 1: media spectacle and and like vict and and turned to
Speaker 1: everybody into villains. Anyways, he's this, we we gotta end up.
Speaker 1: I know everybody's gotta go, but I'll end on this.
Speaker 1: Murphy's you had another politician ran on that bear stuff.
Speaker 1: He's had an our top politician who got busted maskless
Speaker 1: with a bunch of people in the restaurant. Yeah, see
Speaker 1: that video. The woman's got a camera on him. It's
Speaker 1: a great quote, Murphy, You're such a dick. That's funny.
Speaker 1: And he's like hanging out with everybody with no mask
Speaker 1: and mean, while everybody else is supposed to be mask up,
Speaker 1: mask up. And I do not condone going up to
Speaker 1: people and like scramming a camera your face like it's bad,
Speaker 1: Like you don't do it. But I just thought that
Speaker 1: was a funny, like opening line of that. And I
Speaker 1: thought she was talking about the I thought she's talking
Speaker 1: about the bear hunt, but she was in fact talking
Speaker 1: about the she's talking about the masking. But they got it. Florida,
Speaker 1: they had a bear hunt. Uh, it went way better
Speaker 1: than I expected. They had a quote. It's like, it's
Speaker 1: crazy they made a quota. They hit the quotter really fast.
Speaker 1: I would be like, oh, if you hit the quotter
Speaker 1: really fast, you must have a lot more bears then
Speaker 1: you thought. But then it wanted being bad. Did they
Speaker 1: hit the quota. It's like, we hit the quota fast.
Speaker 1: No more bear hunts ever, because everybody's astounded that they
Speaker 1: hit the quarter so fast. Yeah, I understand they killed
Speaker 1: blank thousand bales a bear dying per second. Or that's
Speaker 1: all the dummies moving from New York to Florida because
Speaker 1: they want to save on taxes. Well, it's that, and
Speaker 1: it's also like the COVID regulations. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people that were very upset or I'm I don't, I
Speaker 1: don't have I'm a I'm a big Florida fan, man,
Speaker 1: I don't. I would never hack on Florida, but I
Speaker 1: would hack on how they handle that damn bear hunt. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: get to Santis on the podcast, bring that up to him.
Speaker 1: Funny well, I told you that's my that's my life's goal. Funny,
Speaker 1: interesting that you brought that up. That's my life's goal. Uh,
Speaker 1: all right, guys, we gotta go. What time is it? Ye? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta wrap. I gotta cut a couple of deer up.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Joe, thanks for having me, and
Speaker 1: thank you Jesse for all the great cooking. Dude, you're
Speaker 1: such a good chef and you're a good cook. Thanks. Man.
Speaker 1: Now I like that. That's that that is like, that's
Speaker 1: a great cook cooking for your friends. Man, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: curry less. Night was insane so good. The only thing
Speaker 1: I can do better than you is make a tone
Speaker 1: and the ducks that we went off on the duck earlier,
Speaker 1: the ducks you way better. Everything to me, And someday
Speaker 1: I can show you how to handle the beef to
Speaker 1: That's very kind. I a forciate al right, guys, Thanks