WEBVTT - Belle and Sebastian 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.796 Pushkin. Hey, y'all, it's justin Richmond. Today on the show, 0:00:22.796 --> 0:00:25.836 we're talking to Stuart Murdoch and Stevie Jackson from the 0:00:25.876 --> 0:00:30.076 Scottish folk pop band Belle and Sebastian. The band formed 0:00:30.076 --> 0:00:32.956 in ninety six after meeting through a government funded class 0:00:32.996 --> 0:00:36.436 for unemployed musicians. It soon became a showcase for Stuart 0:00:36.476 --> 0:00:40.036 Murdoch's catchy melodies and witty stories about the everyday lives 0:00:40.036 --> 0:00:43.956 of Scottish bohemians. Inspired by the sounds of the sixties 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:47.316 like the Beatles, Paul Simon, Burt Back Iraq. Their music 0:00:47.396 --> 0:00:51.916 has been described as perfect chamber pop music. On today's episode, 0:00:51.956 --> 0:00:54.756 Bruce Helm talks to Stewart and Stevie about writing and 0:00:54.796 --> 0:00:58.196 recording their latest and tenth album, A Bit of Previous. 0:00:58.796 --> 0:01:01.556 Stewart also talks about how getting sick at twenty one 0:01:01.716 --> 0:01:04.556 was a critical moment in the start of his music career. 0:01:07.596 --> 0:01:10.756 This is broken record Liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:11.036 --> 0:01:15.436 I'm justin Richmond. Here's Bruce album with Stuart and Stevie. 0:01:15.996 --> 0:01:18.236 You've got a new album coming out. Can you tell 0:01:18.276 --> 0:01:20.756 me a little bit about the making of this album? 0:01:20.796 --> 0:01:23.316 Because it was done during the pandemic. How did that 0:01:23.356 --> 0:01:25.876 affect how you did the album, Where you did the album, 0:01:26.236 --> 0:01:28.756 How did all that shake out. We had our bags 0:01:28.796 --> 0:01:31.876 packed for Los Angeles. We were ready to go, and 0:01:31.996 --> 0:01:36.796 this was back in the spring of twenty twenty. Of course, 0:01:36.876 --> 0:01:40.596 the pandemic happened. We were locked down. So for the 0:01:40.636 --> 0:01:42.836 first six months or so, we didn't do anything. Everybody 0:01:42.956 --> 0:01:45.876 was locked in, you know what it was like. By 0:01:45.956 --> 0:01:48.916 that time, we decided, you know what, this is going 0:01:48.956 --> 0:01:51.476 to take a while, So we gave up the idea 0:01:51.476 --> 0:01:54.436 of going to Lae. Chris the band, and also Brian, 0:01:54.516 --> 0:01:58.516 who's our engineer upstairs. We all decided to renovate the studio, 0:01:58.556 --> 0:02:02.316 turn the studio into a proper recording studio rather than 0:02:02.356 --> 0:02:07.316 just a rehearsal place, and we made extra rooms. We 0:02:07.356 --> 0:02:10.236 made little booths so that it could be safe, so 0:02:10.276 --> 0:02:12.836 that we could work safely in pandemic. Time to go 0:02:12.836 --> 0:02:15.396 a whole year for us to start recording with a Vengeance, 0:02:15.636 --> 0:02:18.636 because it was another surge in the pandemic. By that time. 0:02:19.116 --> 0:02:21.196 The song line up had changed, but that was quite nice. 0:02:21.276 --> 0:02:24.716 I'd written quite a few new songs and so we 0:02:24.836 --> 0:02:29.276 brought them in really in a raw state. The beauty 0:02:29.316 --> 0:02:32.596 part of that was that instead of preparing to go 0:02:32.676 --> 0:02:35.476 to Los Angeles and having everything written, we had more 0:02:35.516 --> 0:02:37.596 time and we could make it up as we went along. 0:02:37.996 --> 0:02:41.556 So how many songs did you have written for LA? 0:02:41.836 --> 0:02:43.876 It's kind of hard to say, Stevie. Do you remember 0:02:43.876 --> 0:02:46.076 the pool of songs we had for LA? No, it's 0:02:46.076 --> 0:02:48.916 too long ago. There's probably maybe a nebulous pool of 0:02:48.956 --> 0:02:52.356 about fifteen or twenty, but I think maybe probably ten 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:56.076 of those got ditched along the way somewhere. Is that 0:02:56.116 --> 0:02:58.516 typical for you to go into an album with sort 0:02:58.516 --> 0:03:01.716 of that many songs ready to go? I think yeah, 0:03:01.756 --> 0:03:04.316 it's I think that's probably about the top number. And 0:03:05.156 --> 0:03:08.596 actually we've done records in Atlanta, we've done two in LA. 0:03:08.676 --> 0:03:12.836 We us try to record about seventeen or eighteen because 0:03:12.836 --> 0:03:15.196 they usually needed it, but also it makes a better 0:03:15.236 --> 0:03:17.676 album if you've got songs to choose from. You know, 0:03:17.756 --> 0:03:20.836 things ended up very differently. Like I said, we kind 0:03:20.836 --> 0:03:22.356 of left a lot of songs. A lot of the 0:03:22.396 --> 0:03:26.396 songs went off the boil and didn't seem to appealing anymore, 0:03:26.756 --> 0:03:29.796 and then new ideas sprang up, and because we were 0:03:29.916 --> 0:03:34.396 hands on, between the band and Brian, we were producing 0:03:34.436 --> 0:03:37.196 ourselves we could invent new techniques and new ways of 0:03:37.236 --> 0:03:39.076 working and go back to our roots all that kind 0:03:39.116 --> 0:03:42.116 of stuff. So I'm interested. Tell me which songs on 0:03:42.156 --> 0:03:44.716 the album now are the new songs the songs you 0:03:44.796 --> 0:03:47.556 developed after you initially thought you were going to be 0:03:47.716 --> 0:03:51.716 recording in La Sure, so the first song young and Stupid, 0:03:52.156 --> 0:03:54.396 and then I think if they're shooting at you might 0:03:54.436 --> 0:03:57.556 have been a German, but the words came along later on, 0:03:57.636 --> 0:04:00.956 and then certainly profits on Hold that just came up 0:04:00.996 --> 0:04:04.076 on a day in the studio and was talked to 0:04:04.116 --> 0:04:05.876 me quite a late one as well, Stevie. Can you 0:04:05.876 --> 0:04:08.876 remember I can't remember? That was a tune that Sarah 0:04:09.356 --> 0:04:12.036 and and what about your own tune? That was quite 0:04:12.036 --> 0:04:15.196 a late edition as well. Yes, yes, yes, which was 0:04:15.236 --> 0:04:18.676 called Deathbed of My Dreams. That's a beautiful song, by 0:04:18.716 --> 0:04:21.396 the way, Oh thank you. That was doing the process 0:04:21.516 --> 0:04:24.036 of being here. I think it end up being different 0:04:24.036 --> 0:04:27.436 than a traditional balance of Bastian album that Moore was 0:04:27.476 --> 0:04:30.316 worked out in the studio, as opposed to you coming 0:04:30.356 --> 0:04:33.956 and the writers saying here are the songs and choosing 0:04:33.996 --> 0:04:37.236 from those. I think we've been loosening up for a 0:04:37.236 --> 0:04:40.876 few years now. We recorded a bunch of EPs in 0:04:41.036 --> 0:04:45.116 Glasgow previous to this, and on that occasion that was 0:04:45.156 --> 0:04:47.836 almost like a dress rehearsal for this record. We were 0:04:47.876 --> 0:04:51.676 trying different approaches building songs up from scratch. We were 0:04:51.676 --> 0:04:56.596 meant to be working with Sean Everett in California, and 0:04:56.876 --> 0:05:00.556 we were very prepared to meet him halfway, and I 0:05:00.596 --> 0:05:02.476 think it would have been such a different record. We 0:05:02.836 --> 0:05:06.956 might have ended up writing to order. There's a songwriter, 0:05:07.076 --> 0:05:10.596 I'm affected by the environment find yourself in. I think 0:05:10.636 --> 0:05:15.356 we would have ended up writing songs, especially for his production. 0:05:16.516 --> 0:05:20.156 You were such a prolific songwriter and the band is 0:05:20.196 --> 0:05:24.916 so productive. Was this the longest hiatus you'd had away 0:05:24.956 --> 0:05:28.076 from songwriting during your career. I wouldn't say it was 0:05:28.116 --> 0:05:30.996 a hiatus away from songwriting at all, as far as 0:05:31.036 --> 0:05:33.716 I'm concerned. The longest gap that we had was around 0:05:33.756 --> 0:05:37.356 about two thousand and six to two thousand and ten 0:05:37.516 --> 0:05:39.916 or something like that. I went away to make a movie, 0:05:40.196 --> 0:05:42.436 but I was working on music and Stevie was working 0:05:42.436 --> 0:05:44.676 on music. He did a solo WELP, so everybody was 0:05:44.716 --> 0:05:46.796 still working. You know, A song I was interested in 0:05:46.836 --> 0:05:50.356 a lot was profits on hold and Nactually when I 0:05:50.396 --> 0:05:54.436 saw the title, I thought, well, is this pandemic related? 0:05:54.516 --> 0:05:57.596 Because of course everybody was on hold. That's an angle 0:05:57.636 --> 0:05:59.836 that I never thought about. It was just a song 0:05:59.876 --> 0:06:03.036 that popped up in the studio. But then again, you're 0:06:03.036 --> 0:06:07.276 taking everything, everything that's going on, and it percolates. Songs 0:06:07.276 --> 0:06:09.516 just come out, so it seems to be unre related 0:06:09.556 --> 0:06:11.956 to what is actually going on outside. Maybe in fact, 0:06:11.996 --> 0:06:16.556 the experience of Lockdown did infect affect this song the 0:06:16.596 --> 0:06:19.436 way it came out, But I'd never thought about that. 0:06:19.676 --> 0:06:21.996 And you play a few bars of it, Yeah, there's 0:06:21.996 --> 0:06:26.476 a slight caveat here. What happens with my songs is 0:06:26.516 --> 0:06:29.236 that we construct the songs in the studio and the 0:06:29.236 --> 0:06:32.396 band comes in and colors in once we get into 0:06:32.436 --> 0:06:37.276 the production and we get into the song making I forget. 0:06:37.676 --> 0:06:40.516 I never have it under my fingers. I've never played 0:06:40.516 --> 0:06:43.596 this song from start to finish, you know, especially this one, 0:06:43.916 --> 0:06:46.636 So obviously we have to learn to play this song 0:06:46.836 --> 0:06:49.956 when we come to the concert. What I'm basically saying 0:06:50.036 --> 0:06:52.036 is that me and Stevie are just trying to learn 0:06:52.076 --> 0:06:54.756 how to play a few bars for you just today, 0:06:55.316 --> 0:06:58.396 so we don't actually know it, but well, we'll have 0:06:58.476 --> 0:07:05.316 a goal. Can I call you sometimes talk get out 0:07:05.516 --> 0:07:12.476 on the phone. We don't have to be loved first, 0:07:13.956 --> 0:07:20.516 We could be less alone. It's a rough, rocky road 0:07:23.236 --> 0:07:30.196 and it's gonna get steep. I just wanted your soft 0:07:30.596 --> 0:07:39.196 tone to allow me to sleep. And I sometimes confuse 0:07:41.076 --> 0:07:57.756 you fuck God or angel yo, just a person sometimes confused. 0:07:59.756 --> 0:08:15.596 I Gocklorian my mind a soft song once. Well, you 0:08:15.636 --> 0:08:18.916 guys are quick learners. That was terrific. We were kind 0:08:18.916 --> 0:08:21.916 of like, I'm looking at the chord sheets and for 0:08:21.996 --> 0:08:25.596 the listeners, that probably kind of replicates the idea of 0:08:25.676 --> 0:08:28.356 what happened when we brought the song in at first 0:08:28.916 --> 0:08:31.756 and we were just feeling the chords. Was that purely 0:08:31.756 --> 0:08:34.716 a musical idea you had and then added the lyrics 0:08:34.916 --> 0:08:38.076 or did the lyric come at the same time. More 0:08:38.236 --> 0:08:41.236 regularly for me, the words and the lyrics will come 0:08:41.276 --> 0:08:43.796 at the same time. It's sometimes it's not a strong 0:08:43.996 --> 0:08:48.396 urge to say something lyrically at first. It's more likely 0:08:48.436 --> 0:08:53.996 to be a musical idea, you know, and then immediately 0:08:54.036 --> 0:08:57.636 I'll try and cannot call you sometime. And you might 0:08:57.676 --> 0:09:00.396 even think that that would start off as a scratch 0:09:00.516 --> 0:09:04.476 lyric that you would replace later talk it out on 0:09:04.516 --> 0:09:09.756 the phone, but a bit quite often your first lyrics 0:09:09.876 --> 0:09:12.676 end up as the actual song itself. It's got a 0:09:12.716 --> 0:09:15.356 great rhythm on the record. It's got the same kind 0:09:15.396 --> 0:09:18.716 of bounce as the sound of Breaking Glass by Nick Lowe. 0:09:18.796 --> 0:09:20.716 If you know that song, Oh yeah, that's a great one. 0:09:20.876 --> 0:09:24.036 Yeah yeah, how does that one go? Stepe? I love 0:09:24.116 --> 0:09:31.556 the sound of Breaking Glass. You can learn his songs 0:09:31.596 --> 0:09:34.876 even faster. That's amazing. And because I love the title 0:09:34.916 --> 0:09:37.756 so much, Profits on Hold. I mean, are you sitting 0:09:37.796 --> 0:09:40.076 around somewhere you've got a notebook and you think of 0:09:40.116 --> 0:09:42.196 the phrase profits on hold? Or are you on the 0:09:42.196 --> 0:09:44.916 phone and you just write it down thinking I'm going 0:09:44.996 --> 0:09:47.316 to use that at some point? When did that occur? 0:09:47.636 --> 0:09:51.156 I take note of titles and then sometimes they lie 0:09:51.196 --> 0:09:54.956 for years and then they become songs later on. That 0:09:55.116 --> 0:09:57.036 was a case of that came out in the lyric 0:09:57.156 --> 0:10:00.716 that day, just as I was writing underneath your Thin Skin, 0:10:00.756 --> 0:10:03.316 we are profits and Hold, that occurred to me that 0:10:03.316 --> 0:10:05.756 that could be the title. I'm going to talk about 0:10:05.796 --> 0:10:08.276 the source of the songwriting in the group. You know, 0:10:08.436 --> 0:10:10.876 you are one of the those bands that's not afraid 0:10:10.956 --> 0:10:15.236 to be witty. I don't mean sort of modern lee witty, 0:10:15.276 --> 0:10:20.556 but there is that kind of tradition in English Scottish, 0:10:20.796 --> 0:10:23.516 you know, songwriting. Morrissey is a good example, and I 0:10:23.596 --> 0:10:26.236 think he was an influence on you, almost that kind 0:10:26.276 --> 0:10:29.876 of nol Coward school of being kind of funny. Where 0:10:29.916 --> 0:10:32.516 does that come from in your background? It's sort of 0:10:32.516 --> 0:10:34.716 hard to say. I mean, I'm not sure it's a 0:10:34.716 --> 0:10:37.036 gift that we have for wet Maybe it's a gift 0:10:37.076 --> 0:10:40.436 that we have for honesty and not being afraid to 0:10:40.836 --> 0:10:43.876 leave it all out there. That is a progression from say, 0:10:43.876 --> 0:10:46.516 for instance, you know, the Beatles through the Smiths to 0:10:46.956 --> 0:10:49.076 us and to other bands that if you draw a line, 0:10:49.116 --> 0:10:51.956 I think the people, you know, songwriters are more inclined 0:10:52.036 --> 0:10:56.276 to be very honest and talk about their feelings, talk 0:10:56.316 --> 0:11:01.236 about what's on their mind, very conversational. Whereas you know, 0:11:01.236 --> 0:11:04.356 if you go back a little ways, songwriting was more 0:11:04.996 --> 0:11:07.116 rigorous and there was rules, and there was things that 0:11:07.116 --> 0:11:09.396 it would be cringy to say. At the time, when 0:11:09.436 --> 0:11:13.276 I started songwriting, I didn't have anything to lose and 0:11:13.316 --> 0:11:16.796 I wanted to tell the world how I felt from 0:11:16.876 --> 0:11:21.156 my position of pain and anguish. But sometimes the humor 0:11:21.396 --> 0:11:23.996 or being able to have a joke about it, and 0:11:24.116 --> 0:11:26.956 even if the joke is on yourself, can be refreshing, 0:11:26.996 --> 0:11:30.476 it can be liberating. But you're known for that level 0:11:30.516 --> 0:11:33.596 of kind of wit. You know, if you're feeling sinister, 0:11:33.836 --> 0:11:36.676 go and see a minister. There are a million examples 0:11:36.876 --> 0:11:40.236 in your music. Were you a particularly literary kid. Was 0:11:40.276 --> 0:11:42.396 there a lot of reading in your background. I did 0:11:42.436 --> 0:11:45.516 quite a lot of reading as a later youth. I 0:11:45.796 --> 0:11:47.796 did everything at the wrong time. When I was at 0:11:47.956 --> 0:11:52.036 university doing science, all I would be doing was reading 0:11:52.156 --> 0:11:55.436 English literature to the extent where the way that you 0:11:55.516 --> 0:11:59.316 speak actually changes. I don't know if Stevie ever felt 0:11:59.356 --> 0:12:03.036 that phenomenon, or yourself felt that phenomenon. I did go 0:12:03.116 --> 0:12:05.236 through a couple of years where I was reading Jane 0:12:05.236 --> 0:12:09.956 Austen and French authors, and the way that you actually 0:12:09.996 --> 0:12:12.596 talk you could tell that it was changing because you 0:12:12.676 --> 0:12:16.076 would be composing sentences the same way as these Victorian 0:12:16.156 --> 0:12:19.756 all arts. And so that that was a period a 0:12:19.796 --> 0:12:23.156 couple of years, and then I actually dropped out of university. 0:12:23.876 --> 0:12:27.196 I didn't do signs anymore. I got more interested in 0:12:27.236 --> 0:12:30.156 the art side. We're going to take a quick break here, 0:12:30.196 --> 0:12:32.116 but we'll be right back with more from Stuart and 0:12:32.156 --> 0:12:40.596 Stevie from balan Sebashtan. We're back with Bruce Adam's conversation 0:12:40.836 --> 0:12:43.836 with Stevie and Stuart. There's a couple of songs I 0:12:43.956 --> 0:12:46.556 want to ask about and then we'll dive into some background. 0:12:46.836 --> 0:12:48.996 If they're shooting at you, tell me a bit about 0:12:48.996 --> 0:12:52.636 the genesis of that song. I'm glad that you've asked 0:12:52.636 --> 0:12:55.076 me about this one. Let me just try and get 0:12:55.116 --> 0:12:57.636 the words of the song in front of me, and 0:12:57.876 --> 0:13:00.596 I hope you don't feel that's too feeble, not at all. 0:13:00.796 --> 0:13:03.556 So the funny thing about if they're shooting at you, 0:13:03.956 --> 0:13:06.196 although I said it before, it was a new song 0:13:06.316 --> 0:13:10.436 coming into this. I'd had the idea for the tune 0:13:10.476 --> 0:13:12.796 for a couple of years and I brought it into 0:13:12.836 --> 0:13:15.916 the studio pretty much the same day as Bob and 0:13:15.956 --> 0:13:18.076 the band. He brought in an idea, and this was 0:13:18.156 --> 0:13:19.796 during the time we were doing the EPs a couple 0:13:19.836 --> 0:13:22.516 of years ago. So he played me this idea and said, 0:13:22.556 --> 0:13:24.836 could you come up with words for this? And I 0:13:24.876 --> 0:13:28.796 realized it had the same rhythm and vibe as the 0:13:28.836 --> 0:13:30.596 thing I was writing, and I thought, well, this is good. 0:13:30.716 --> 0:13:33.436 I like that that's interesting when that happens, because you 0:13:33.476 --> 0:13:36.516 can combine the two in such a way that sometimes 0:13:36.516 --> 0:13:39.596 something interesting comes from it. I find that the easiest 0:13:39.636 --> 0:13:41.876 way to combine two ideas they probably need to have 0:13:41.876 --> 0:13:44.276 the same rhythmic feel. You can always go from chord 0:13:44.316 --> 0:13:47.396 to chord and figure out a way. I ended up 0:13:47.476 --> 0:13:52.476 lending Bob's song a section of this song, and we 0:13:52.556 --> 0:13:55.156 wrote words and became a song called Poor Boy and 0:13:55.276 --> 0:13:59.076 as You was a single. But as we approached this LP, 0:13:59.516 --> 0:14:01.836 I had the idea for this song in my head. 0:14:01.876 --> 0:14:03.516 I still had the tune in my head. I felt 0:14:03.516 --> 0:14:06.956 it hadn't been fully exploited, so I wrote discreet words. 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:09.196 I wrote separate words. I actually said to the and 0:14:09.276 --> 0:14:13.476 beforehand it if you don't think this is too lazy 0:14:13.516 --> 0:14:16.516 of me? Could this be a song? Could we try 0:14:16.556 --> 0:14:20.396 this song? So maybe, like if if there's Belcabacitian fan, 0:14:20.556 --> 0:14:22.516 you know, listening just now, they might be able to 0:14:22.556 --> 0:14:25.996 reference part of the song. Will we play you a 0:14:26.116 --> 0:14:29.676 verse or something from the would be great? One? Two? 0:14:30.156 --> 0:14:36.556 So huh said, do you? I'm not free? I got 0:14:36.636 --> 0:14:43.076 a mountain falling down on me, I got say the 0:14:43.356 --> 0:14:49.956 san I've got down all the beeple one, a scream 0:14:50.076 --> 0:14:57.956 and shout. I'm so tired. I'm always on money and 0:14:58.276 --> 0:15:05.516 I'm called it's always januine worry in this huh and 0:15:06.116 --> 0:15:13.276 on this streets. It's so great. I can't take it. 0:15:14.036 --> 0:15:25.396 What happened to like fun? You sweat to? What did 0:15:25.516 --> 0:15:33.996 you go okay? What would just think would just give 0:15:34.036 --> 0:15:38.196 you a little taste lovely? What was behind the feeling 0:15:38.276 --> 0:15:41.156 of that song, the lyrics of that song. It started 0:15:41.196 --> 0:15:45.836 off very personal and became more general. It was me 0:15:45.996 --> 0:15:49.836 looking out there at stories that were in the news. 0:15:50.236 --> 0:15:53.316 If you look at the news any day, there's stories 0:15:53.316 --> 0:15:56.596 about violent oppression, you know. Like I said, I started 0:15:57.156 --> 0:15:59.556 singing from my own the way that I was feeling, 0:15:59.796 --> 0:16:02.196 and then I started writing from the perspective of the 0:16:02.276 --> 0:16:04.516 things that were happening that I could see happening to 0:16:04.636 --> 0:16:08.236 other people. And sometimes things that are happening to you 0:16:08.636 --> 0:16:10.956 they're quite small compared to the things that are happening 0:16:10.996 --> 0:16:13.916 to other people. People are dying, people are being tortured, 0:16:14.236 --> 0:16:18.476 people are in prison. This is terrible, terrible things happening, 0:16:18.516 --> 0:16:21.836 And what do you do. I can't imagine facing those things, 0:16:22.436 --> 0:16:26.036 but I know and I've seen it. People have faith 0:16:26.756 --> 0:16:29.996 sometimes that's the only thing that can get them through it. 0:16:30.396 --> 0:16:34.316 I know faith isn't for everybody, but I've experienced faith. 0:16:34.396 --> 0:16:38.036 But also I've seen faith at work in other people, 0:16:38.316 --> 0:16:43.276 and I know that at that point of disaster, upon it, 0:16:43.356 --> 0:16:46.916 even death, that sometimes faith is the only thing that's 0:16:46.916 --> 0:16:49.116 going to do it. So that's the second half of 0:16:49.156 --> 0:16:52.196 the song. Really. Now, when you talk about faith, because 0:16:53.036 --> 0:16:56.316 you're a practicing Buddhist, you're also a Christian, do you 0:16:56.396 --> 0:16:59.996 mean religious faith in that sense or another kind of 0:17:00.076 --> 0:17:04.236 faith in the sense it's a religious faith. And although 0:17:04.396 --> 0:17:06.956 I am a Christian and would say not so much 0:17:06.996 --> 0:17:11.316 a practicing Buddhist, but obviously very interested in Buddhism. You know, 0:17:11.716 --> 0:17:14.396 I don't mean to be badantic. If you're practicing Buddhists, 0:17:14.436 --> 0:17:19.236 you go for refuge to Buddha. But I'm a Christians, 0:17:19.316 --> 0:17:22.996 I go for refuge to God. And so that's who 0:17:23.956 --> 0:17:26.756 I feel that I'm talking about in this that God 0:17:26.916 --> 0:17:30.916 is actually a voice in the song. Oh see, like 0:17:31.076 --> 0:17:34.756 many of your songs, it starts as a conversation. Something 0:17:34.836 --> 0:17:37.956 you're you announce, you're saying to another person. Is that 0:17:38.076 --> 0:17:40.916 what the two voices are in the song? What happens. 0:17:40.956 --> 0:17:45.276 It becomes the person that I was thinking about, the 0:17:45.396 --> 0:17:49.276 oppressed person and God, and God is saying, they might 0:17:49.356 --> 0:17:52.316 do terrible things to you, but I've got your back. 0:17:52.676 --> 0:17:55.156 This might mean that this experience goes beyond this life. 0:17:56.236 --> 0:17:59.236 And I know that that's maybe hard for some people 0:17:59.716 --> 0:18:02.676 to imagine or some people to take, but I feel 0:18:02.716 --> 0:18:05.796 like we have to look beyond, and you know in 0:18:05.876 --> 0:18:09.596 the song, God is getting this person's back. You talked 0:18:09.596 --> 0:18:12.156 about sort of seeing things in the world, particularly with 0:18:12.276 --> 0:18:16.796 this song that you know we're terrible things. It doesn't 0:18:16.836 --> 0:18:21.036 strike me as an angry song though. Malcolm and I 0:18:21.116 --> 0:18:24.036 just did a big project with Paul Simon, and I 0:18:24.076 --> 0:18:25.956 don't think it made the final cut of the project. 0:18:26.636 --> 0:18:30.676 But I do remember asking him if he ever wrote 0:18:30.756 --> 0:18:34.796 out of anger, and he said he did, but he 0:18:34.956 --> 0:18:37.276 works on the song until all the anger is gone. 0:18:37.876 --> 0:18:40.396 How do you see sort of anger in your songs? 0:18:40.476 --> 0:18:43.356 Do you see anger underlying this song? No, not so 0:18:43.516 --> 0:18:45.436 much this song, and it certainly, I mean to be 0:18:45.516 --> 0:18:48.796 honest with you, I've had to work on anger issues 0:18:49.116 --> 0:18:51.516 in my life. I think we all have. I think 0:18:51.756 --> 0:18:54.916 perhaps many of us mellow as we get older. We're 0:18:55.036 --> 0:18:58.556 constantly trying to become more patient, especially I've had kids, 0:18:59.196 --> 0:19:02.236 and having a kid or kids is a lesson in 0:19:02.596 --> 0:19:06.436 patient acceptance. You're working on your anger constantly when you 0:19:06.516 --> 0:19:10.516 have kids. So I had more issues and I was younger. 0:19:11.196 --> 0:19:14.716 Stevie would probably a test, and you know, things you 0:19:14.836 --> 0:19:17.356 get quite spiky in the band and an everyday life, 0:19:17.396 --> 0:19:19.876 and sometimes that would leak into some songs that I 0:19:19.956 --> 0:19:24.236 could think about. But in this case, I think the 0:19:24.436 --> 0:19:27.716 song is looking for a different solution. Even though terrible 0:19:27.796 --> 0:19:30.796 things are happening to people and anger seems to be 0:19:31.436 --> 0:19:34.796 sometimes seemed to be an appropriate response, I think I'm 0:19:35.036 --> 0:19:38.556 suggesting in the song there's another way. I do want 0:19:38.596 --> 0:19:40.156 to shift to Stevie, and I did want to ask 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:42.836 you about Deathbed of My Dreams. It's got a lovely 0:19:42.956 --> 0:19:45.716 kind of country feel to it. Almost sounds like one 0:19:45.756 --> 0:19:49.676 of those old kind of Nashville kind of dreamy slide 0:19:49.716 --> 0:19:53.836 guitar songs. Can you tell me about that song? Well, sure, 0:19:54.956 --> 0:19:59.476 without getting sued. That's the first time I wrote a 0:19:59.516 --> 0:20:01.476 song in a specific way. There was a song in 0:20:01.596 --> 0:20:04.516 my head which already existed. I basically wrote my own 0:20:04.596 --> 0:20:08.676 words to someone else's song, and I've never done that 0:20:08.796 --> 0:20:11.516 before got the folk tradition or something, and then I 0:20:11.636 --> 0:20:15.356 changed the chords under it so that the melody changed. 0:20:15.436 --> 0:20:17.596 And now you can't tell that you know that it 0:20:17.716 --> 0:20:20.396 started off as another tune and I just changed it. 0:20:20.556 --> 0:20:21.796 But this way, it's like a sort of an a 0:20:21.876 --> 0:20:25.716 moral dilemma because I actually deliberately used another tune to 0:20:26.156 --> 0:20:29.156 express myself and then changed it. But maybe you could 0:20:29.236 --> 0:20:34.996 argue that's a kind of folk process. Yeah, it's it's 0:20:35.116 --> 0:20:38.156 very common in folk and country music. I'm interested. It's 0:20:38.196 --> 0:20:41.996 got a beautiful, very distinctive sound on the record. Now, 0:20:42.076 --> 0:20:44.556 your albums are always full of different sounds. The song 0:20:44.676 --> 0:20:46.956 we just talked about, if They're Shooting at You, which 0:20:47.076 --> 0:20:50.596 we made sound fairly grim, actually sounds like it's like 0:20:50.716 --> 0:20:54.476 a great bird backrack song. Yeah, Deathbed of My Dreams 0:20:54.516 --> 0:20:57.076 has a very particular sound. Was it the sound of 0:20:57.116 --> 0:21:00.276 this other song that attracted you? A Stuart and his 0:21:00.476 --> 0:21:03.356 Songs and our producer Brian, you know, the aforementioned song 0:21:03.396 --> 0:21:04.956 If They're Shooting at You. I think they took a 0:21:04.996 --> 0:21:07.076 long time to get the rhythm of it, or you know, 0:21:07.156 --> 0:21:08.756 like they spend a lot of time in the studio 0:21:09.836 --> 0:21:12.836 getting it right. And I just don't have the patience 0:21:12.956 --> 0:21:14.996 for that kind of thing. I my kind of way 0:21:14.996 --> 0:21:18.516 of working is is that kind of audio verity thing. 0:21:18.596 --> 0:21:22.196 I just assemble the musicians, play them the song, and 0:21:22.316 --> 0:21:24.836 whatever will be will be, or would try and capture something, 0:21:25.076 --> 0:21:27.996 or you know, usually try and capture it fast. I 0:21:28.076 --> 0:21:29.596 think like with this song, I think it was in 0:21:29.756 --> 0:21:33.876 c and and I just said, look, just play whatever 0:21:33.956 --> 0:21:36.676 you want. I gave a couple of counters and didn't 0:21:36.836 --> 0:21:38.876 quite happen. Then we had a coffee break and as 0:21:38.876 --> 0:21:41.956 it us to it in the A and then it 0:21:42.036 --> 0:21:44.276 just kind of came together quite nicely and we got 0:21:44.316 --> 0:21:47.236 it in a few takes. That's certainly my memory of it. 0:21:47.316 --> 0:21:52.756 And then Brian and I overdubbed a steel guitar which 0:21:52.836 --> 0:21:54.676 they have played. The way it kind of came out, 0:21:54.716 --> 0:21:57.836 it did sound like that kind of Nashville nineteen sixty 0:21:57.916 --> 0:22:00.236 one kind of sound, so we kind of pushed it 0:22:00.316 --> 0:22:03.356 that way a little bit like a day or bass 0:22:03.396 --> 0:22:06.236 player he'd done that classic Nashville thing of he doubled 0:22:06.276 --> 0:22:09.756 his part with a Fender six guitar along with a 0:22:09.876 --> 0:22:11.956 kind of upright bass kind of feel. So has that 0:22:12.076 --> 0:22:14.316 kind of two basses playing which is about in Nashville 0:22:14.556 --> 0:22:17.716 kind of sound. It's a beautiful song. There are a 0:22:17.796 --> 0:22:21.396 couple of songs on this album. I think, maybe particularly 0:22:21.996 --> 0:22:27.596 the performance of Unnecessary Drama, that it felt like you 0:22:27.676 --> 0:22:30.116 were a band that was desperate to play live again. 0:22:30.596 --> 0:22:33.316 It just kind of had more aggression, more kind of 0:22:33.956 --> 0:22:37.276 a live kind of feel. Were you itching to get 0:22:37.356 --> 0:22:40.076 back out in front of a live audience when you 0:22:40.156 --> 0:22:44.276 were recording these I would say no, personally, no, no. Yeah. 0:22:44.756 --> 0:22:46.956 The key thing about this song is that this song 0:22:47.116 --> 0:22:50.396 is Bob's song. You know, Bob isn't here to tell 0:22:50.516 --> 0:22:53.316 his side of things, but Bob is. You know, he's 0:22:53.436 --> 0:22:55.676 very organized and he had a plan for this song. 0:22:55.796 --> 0:22:58.876 He had a sound. He has everything meticulously planned out. 0:22:59.436 --> 0:23:03.516 So this is very much his sound. When I I'm 0:23:03.556 --> 0:23:06.596 in the studio, I don't care whether I'm in Atlanta 0:23:06.836 --> 0:23:10.036 or Ellie or London. You're sort of in a womb. 0:23:10.276 --> 0:23:12.556 You're in a very safe place, and that's why it's 0:23:12.596 --> 0:23:14.836 a It's a wonderful place for songs to be born. 0:23:15.276 --> 0:23:20.636 I like studio stuff. I like a studio sound. You know, 0:23:20.716 --> 0:23:23.956 there's a lushnessism. I like middle of the road sixties 0:23:23.996 --> 0:23:28.116 and seventies records. For me, it's complete yean and yang. 0:23:28.716 --> 0:23:31.316 But of course, as members of the band, we're all 0:23:31.476 --> 0:23:35.436 ready to support the person whose idea and whose song 0:23:35.516 --> 0:23:39.156 it is, so we're really happy to I mean, Stevie, 0:23:39.636 --> 0:23:42.956 did you suggest that harmonic or did Bob suggest that harmonica? No, 0:23:43.036 --> 0:23:45.716 it was Bob, yeah, and it was actually an overdub. 0:23:45.756 --> 0:23:48.556 I didn't record it with the band. Bob did all 0:23:48.556 --> 0:23:50.836