Speaker 1: Cool media.
Speaker 2: This is It could Happen Here a show about things
Speaker 2: falling apart, and this episode is about the people who
Speaker 2: want to make it being the United States fall apart
Speaker 2: even faster, allowing them to install a white s parremacist
Speaker 2: ethno state, though it kind of feels like that's pretty
Speaker 2: much already happening. This episode is also about the people
Speaker 2: in government who categorize and classify want to be terrorists,
Speaker 2: who want the country to collapse faster, and what these
Speaker 2: changes in categorization methods can tell us about the future
Speaker 2: of the country. I'm Garrison Davison today I'm joined by
Speaker 2: a very special guest, philosopher and comedian Michael Burns of
Speaker 2: the YouTube channel Michael o'burns and formerly wiscrack rip.
Speaker 3: How you doing pretty good, you know, besides living in
Speaker 3: the world that you just described past that everything's going great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of been my mood the past three months,
Speaker 2: maybe longer. There's a tad, a tad like liminality. But
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's just like living in denial
Speaker 2: and trying to cope. But hey, you know what's wrong
Speaker 2: with a little bit of coping.
Speaker 3: Especially if it helps one simply survive these times. So
Speaker 3: you know, I encourage a healthy dose of of coping
Speaker 3: or sort of a you know, mental bifurcation, if that's
Speaker 3: what we need to do to get up in the
Speaker 3: morning and get through it all.
Speaker 4: Yay.
Speaker 2: Now, Unfortunately, this episode that I have prepared today is
Speaker 2: uh not a super cheery one for you, Michael, which
Speaker 2: is which is maybe kind of kind of appropriate because
Speaker 2: the reason why I have you on this episode today
Speaker 2: is because the FBI and the Department of Justice have
Speaker 2: come up with a new terrorism classification acronym which name
Speaker 2: drops the internet's favorite and sometimes least favorite philosophy, nihilism.
Speaker 2: They're they're calling these guys nihilistic violent extremists. Oh boy,
Speaker 2: we will, we will get into this. Do you want
Speaker 2: to give like a philosophy one oh one definition of nihilism?
Speaker 2: A super well known and universally agreed upon term that
Speaker 2: always means the same thing to everybody.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's not confusing it at all.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean I think the root of it,
Speaker 3: at least in like a modern philosophical sense is Nietzsche.
Speaker 3: At least that's a common reference point. And when Nietzsche
Speaker 3: is talking about nihilism, especially in a book like The
Speaker 3: Genealogy Morality a lot of other places, he is making
Speaker 3: the argument that sort of Christian European culture, and particularly
Speaker 3: a Christian European culture influenced by idealist philosophy, creates nihilism.
Speaker 3: The reason he says it creates nihilism is because people
Speaker 3: care more about Heaven than they do about earth. They
Speaker 3: care more about the life they're going to have an
Speaker 3: eternity than the life they have in the here and now.
Speaker 3: So for him, it's like this devaluement of life that happens.
Speaker 4: If your Christianity.
Speaker 3: More broadly speaking, nihilism has a I guess more positive usage,
Speaker 3: which is the you know, disbelief in the inherent or
Speaker 3: necessary meaning in an overarching.
Speaker 2: System like in like the existential sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you kind of have this this distinction, and
Speaker 3: some people use of positive and negative nihilism, and to
Speaker 3: be really crass and simple here, negative nihilism is nothing
Speaker 3: means anything, So I don't give a shit. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna hang out and do whatever. Positive nihilism is there's
Speaker 3: no inherent meaning in reality, but cool. Now, me and
Speaker 3: the homies can construct meaning as we see fit, which
Speaker 3: is more like the existentialist response, We're going to create
Speaker 3: meaning where maybe there wasn't natural meaning in this like
Speaker 3: old school Platonic or Christian sense.
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure how much the FBI agents who
Speaker 2: are doing these federal court filings have read Nietzsche or
Speaker 2: the French existentialists and instead of probably using a colloquial
Speaker 2: definition of nihilism, right this like oh nothing matters, you know,
Speaker 2: this like app anthetic, postmodernist like idea to go a
Speaker 2: little Jordan Petersony, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think there's the sense in which
Speaker 3: it is the kind of weird Jordan Petersony alright, philosophy
Speaker 3: version of nihilism, which just means like people that think
Speaker 3: the dominance of the West is bad. And it also
Speaker 3: reeks a little bit of like big Lebowski nihilism for totally,
Speaker 3: you know. And of course in that movie, nihilism is
Speaker 3: represented by a crew of I think Austrian techno producers
Speaker 3: called Autobahn, who are also nihilists, and they say throughout
Speaker 3: the film like we are nihilist, we believe in nothing,
Speaker 3: which is a really and obviously the Coen Brothers made
Speaker 3: that film, at least one of them was a philosophy major,
Speaker 3: so they know what they're doing. That's kind of the
Speaker 3: really basic, not good enough version of this thing that
Speaker 3: it seems like the FBI is operating with, like people
Speaker 3: who don't believe in the goodness of the Western project.
Speaker 2: Correct, and that's what they're really honing in on. I
Speaker 2: will read an expanded definition of of nihilistic violent extremism.
Speaker 2: This is This is from a Federal court filing and
Speaker 2: dated March eighteenth, twenty twenty five. Nihilist violent extremists are
Speaker 2: individuals to engage in criminal conduct within the United States
Speaker 2: and abroad in furtherance of political, social, or religious goals
Speaker 2: that derive primarily from a hatred of society at large
Speaker 2: and a desire to bring about its collapse by sowing
Speaker 2: indiscriminate chaos, destruction, and social instability. Nihlis violent extremists work
Speaker 2: individually or as a part of a network with these
Speaker 2: goals of destroying civilized society through the corruption and exploitation
Speaker 2: of vulnerable populations, which often include minors. Now, this is
Speaker 2: where it's going to get into some kind of weirder
Speaker 2: stuff that we will kind of explain later. They have
Speaker 2: like a second definition here quote nihilist vile extreamists, both
Speaker 2: individually and as a network, systematically and methodically target vulnerable
Speaker 2: populations across the United States and the globe. They frequently
Speaker 2: use social media communication platforms to connect with individuals and
Speaker 2: desensitize them to violence, among other things, breaking down societal
Speaker 2: norms regarding engaging in violence, normalizing the possession, production, and
Speaker 2: sharing of gore materials, and otherwise corrupting and grooming those
Speaker 2: individuals towards committing future acts of violence unquote. And that
Speaker 2: kind of outlines some of the strategy of these groups,
Speaker 2: the groups that they're kind of gonna mention here. I've
Speaker 2: been doing like freelance research on for about four years now.
Speaker 2: I've been trying to publish a few articles on these
Speaker 2: guys over the years, but it's always it's always tricky,
Speaker 2: and we will get to kind of the darker corners
Speaker 2: of that in a sect. But let's let's first kind
Speaker 2: of talk about what this new term, this nvees nihilist
Speaker 2: violent extremists. What this is kind of replacing the in
Speaker 2: the FBI lexicon. Now, it seems that this term is
Speaker 2: being used in place of two previous FBI terrorism categories.
Speaker 2: This is from a November twenty twenty FBI bulletin quote
Speaker 2: anti government or anti authority violent extremism. This threatet ncompasses
Speaker 2: the potentially unlawful use or threat of force or violence
Speaker 2: in furtherance of ideological agendas derived from anti government or
Speaker 2: anti authority sentiment, including opposition to perceived economic, social, or
Speaker 2: racial hierarchies, or perceived government overreach, negligence, or illegitimacy.
Speaker 3: Can I say something that stood out to me about
Speaker 3: those definitions? The hatred thing I found really interesting in
Speaker 3: like the very first definition you give that nihilism is
Speaker 3: defined as like in a motive state, because again, I
Speaker 3: think nihilism is classically conceived totally is almost more like
Speaker 3: ontological or metaphysical, And by that I just mean looking
Speaker 3: at these structures of belief in the world. So rather
Speaker 3: than being like motivated by hatred or love or fear
Speaker 3: or whatever, a more classically nihilists few is just again like, oh,
Speaker 3: I've been sold a bill of goods on what the
Speaker 3: meaning of existences or what the undermining underlying principles of
Speaker 3: political reality are, And now I see that they are
Speaker 3: maybe bs.
Speaker 2: The hatred of society and wanting to collapse it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess there's just like this negativity associated with
Speaker 3: all that language. And of course I was having never
Speaker 3: heard the definitions that you were just bringing up, you know,
Speaker 3: the way in which it just quickly zigs and zags
Speaker 3: to like some very dark stuff in terms of like radicalization.
Speaker 3: That seemed like there was a reference towards like a
Speaker 3: like like pedophilia or something there.
Speaker 2: Child sexual abust materials. Yeah, come up a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, so it just getting from A to B.
Speaker 3: There is more like getting from A to Z or something.
Speaker 3: It's just not a connection that I think would be
Speaker 3: obvious to anyone who has thought about, read about written
Speaker 3: about nihilism as more of an intellectual or even like
Speaker 3: a political and philosophical concept.
Speaker 2: Totally, because there is like political nihilists and like the
Speaker 2: Russian tradition and more recently in like the American Aniatest
Speaker 2: tradition or the Greek anarchist tradition, where they believe in
Speaker 2: this like idea of like intigation and trying to trying
Speaker 2: to like negate to government institutions.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but which is still a far cry from believing
Speaker 3: in causing active harm psychologically, physically whatever to human beings
Speaker 3: vulnerable populations. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, there's a sense in which
Speaker 3: it's painted as like if you knew nothing else and
Speaker 3: you were to read those definitions and you were just
Speaker 3: scared suburban insurance salesman or something, it would sound as
Speaker 3: if it was like a death cult infecting the minds
Speaker 3: of children, like zombie esque little super soldiers.
Speaker 2: That's actually what they're going for. And I have I
Speaker 2: have a lot of mixed opinions on this term because
Speaker 2: I think this term is trying to describe a group
Speaker 2: that does kind of defy classification. But I think the
Speaker 2: use of the nihilist term is also not good. So
Speaker 2: I'm kind of in a rock and a hard place
Speaker 2: here as someone who does a lot of extremism research. Now,
Speaker 2: the other term that the FBI is probably seeking to replace,
Speaker 2: at least in part with this new nihilism definition is
Speaker 2: racially or ethnically motivated violent extremism. Right, this is like
Speaker 2: your what term assists your neo nazis. The FBI defines
Speaker 2: it as quote. This threating compasses the potentially unlawful use
Speaker 2: or threat of force or violence and furtherance of ideological
Speaker 2: agendas derived from bias, often relating to race or ethnicity
Speaker 2: held by the actor against others or a given population group.
Speaker 2: Racially or ethnically motivated Violet extreamists purported to use both
Speaker 2: political and religious justifications to support their racially or ethnically
Speaker 2: based ideological objectives and criminal activities. This was the group
Speaker 2: that saw like a massive, a massive explosion and growth
Speaker 2: the past ten years, really starting around twenty sixteen to
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, with you know, the Neo Nazi mass shooting
Speaker 2: like epidemic, especially around like twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: This is the most lethal group and it grew exponentially
Speaker 2: during that period, and we're kind of seeing some of
Speaker 2: these groups start to reform now. Now there's been some
Speaker 2: reporting that this that this anti government or anti authority
Speaker 2: violent extremism, which I'm just going to say agave, which
Speaker 2: is the acronym, which does make me a little bit
Speaker 2: hungry for a glucose syrup, but it's fine. Now, there's
Speaker 2: been some reporting that state agave is specifically like a
Speaker 2: Biden era term, but it actually like predates the Biden
Speaker 2: presidency and was in use under Trump. In fact, a
Speaker 2: lot of the internal FBI reforms that are being reported
Speaker 2: on right now are actually undoing changes and counter terrorism
Speaker 2: strategies that started under the first Trump presidency. But we'll
Speaker 2: get more on that later. We're gonna go on an
Speaker 2: ad break real quick and return to talk about a
Speaker 2: gruesome act of violence in Wisconsin last month. All right,
Speaker 2: we are back. I'm gonna get more into how the
Speaker 2: government is using this term and like what they are
Speaker 2: applying it to, what they're applying the nihilist of violent
Speaker 2: extremism labeled to. Earlier this year, a Wisconsin team mal
Speaker 2: Nikota Cassup killed his parents in an attempt to gain
Speaker 2: the financial means and autonomy necessary to carry out a
Speaker 2: plot to assassinate President Trump and accelerate the collapse of
Speaker 2: the United States. I'm going to read a quote from
Speaker 2: a federal criminal complaint filed last month. Quote. On March third,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, County sheriffs obtained a search warrant for
Speaker 2: casp cell phone. During the review, they identified material on
Speaker 2: the phone related to quote unquote the order of nine angles.
Speaker 2: The sheriff's review of the phone identified possible usernames for Cassup,
Speaker 2: including Accelerationists fourteen and Awoken unquote. Now, Michael are you
Speaker 2: unfortunate enough to be familiar with the Order of Nine Angles?
Speaker 4: I am not so.
Speaker 2: This is a group that was originally based in the
Speaker 2: UK and now is primarily active in Eastern Europe, though
Speaker 2: there are branches or spin offs called nexions in the
Speaker 2: United States. This is a group that is kind of
Speaker 2: hard to find. People often call it a Nazi Satanist group.
Speaker 2: I think it's more accurate to call them a like
Speaker 2: white supremacist, a cultic group who essentially try to cultivate
Speaker 2: evil for the sake of evil. They're like a left
Speaker 2: hand Path, a cult group that has orchestrated multiple terrorist attacks,
Speaker 2: especially through radicalizing US soldiers. At this point, they're pretty
Speaker 2: mythic with their writing and tactics, leaving a strong lingering
Speaker 2: presence across the left hand Path, fascist, occult mill u.
Speaker 2: We also have a reference to quote unquote accelerationism here,
Speaker 2: which kind of similar to nihilism. Is like this philosophical
Speaker 2: term which has kind of been like warped and changed
Speaker 2: VIA's people's application of it in politics, and specifically kind
Speaker 2: of the way that we're going to be using this
Speaker 2: word here is this idea of trying to like accelerate
Speaker 2: the collapse of the country, mostly to install like a
Speaker 2: white spremacist AFT in a state after the country has collapsed.
Speaker 2: This is how most Nazis use the term, even though
Speaker 2: it has a slightly different cultural back ground with the
Speaker 2: work of Nick Land and Fisher.
Speaker 3: When I was growing up, acceleration just man accelerating the
Speaker 3: contradictions of capitalism.
Speaker 4: But kids these days, that's right, not a good one.
Speaker 2: So this federal criminal complaint alleges that Cassip was communicating
Speaker 2: with people on the messaging app Telegram, and these people
Speaker 2: were possibly in Ukraine and or Russia, and these people
Speaker 2: helped him plan this attack. The FBI found TikTok messages
Speaker 2: on his phone where he discussed the struggle of telling
Speaker 2: his friends that he quote unquote follows O nine A
Speaker 2: teachings that's order of nine angles, and he discussed a
Speaker 2: previous FBI visit to his home in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: In other exchanges on TikTok, he shared information with a
Speaker 2: user named Nihilis about how to find Nazi telegram channels.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna read through some of this. Some
Speaker 2: of this chat transcript Nihilis, Hey, dude, do you know
Speaker 2: any telegram groups where niners that's oh, nine A and
Speaker 2: drex can interact and exchange info. Awoken, that's cassup. Sorry No,
Speaker 2: I'm mostly in NSWP telegram groups l ol. If you
Speaker 2: do find any, it'd be nice if you tell me nihilis.
Speaker 2: What's WP awoke, Wikipedia dot org, slash national underscore, socialism underscore,
Speaker 2: white power, nihilus, Oh, white power cool? Awoken? Do you
Speaker 2: know any on nine A telegram groups? Nihlis? Oh, not
Speaker 2: a group, but a channel. You can find documents there. Awoken?
Speaker 2: All right, send awoken? Can you send me the link
Speaker 2: to the account? Awoken? It says, I can't access the message, Nihlis,
Speaker 2: How can I do that? Wait a second? Awoken. Here's
Speaker 2: my telegram user name, Accelerationists fourteen nihilis. I sent a message,
Speaker 2: So there you go.
Speaker 4: That's the man.
Speaker 2: Just There is some later telegram messages that are archived
Speaker 2: in this in this complaint as well, where at Accelerationists says,
Speaker 2: what country do you think will get the blame for this?
Speaker 2: Meaning his planned attack? An unknown user replied, Russia will
Speaker 2: be blamed for it. This is the goal, Accelerationist said. Quote.
Speaker 2: When the time comes for me to send my manifesto
Speaker 2: to you so you can spread it online. Should it
Speaker 2: be a pdf? Also?
Speaker 3: Sorry, I just like that when the contacts all that
Speaker 3: they're discussing file types, and.
Speaker 2: Also you won't anyhow change or modify the manifesto, The
Speaker 2: unknown user replies, write it on a piece of paper
Speaker 2: and take a picture.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: The FBI personnel performing the preliminary review saw images of
Speaker 2: a three page document titled Accelerate the Collapse. The images
Speaker 2: are screen grabs displayed on a phone, and these images
Speaker 2: were created on February twenty eight, twenty twenty five. This
Speaker 2: document is the manifesto referred to by at Accelerationist. The
Speaker 2: manifesto calls for the assassination of the President of the
Speaker 2: United States in order to ferment a political revolution in
Speaker 2: the United States to quote unquote is save the white
Speaker 2: race from quote unquote Jewish controlled politicians. The third page
Speaker 2: of the document contains images of Adolf Hitler with text
Speaker 2: that reads quote Hail Hitler, Hail the White Race, Hail victory. Now,
Speaker 2: from what I can read of this manifesto, it's pretty basic.
Speaker 2: It's heavily plagiarized, like most of these kind of white
Speaker 2: supremacist accelerationist manifestos are It talks about how Jews control
Speaker 2: white countries and are promoting white genocide and degeneracy. Talks
Speaker 2: about the need to quote unquote collapse Jewish occupied governments.
Speaker 2: The manifesto states that his motivation for wanting to kill
Speaker 2: Trump was to sow chaos and raise public awareness that
Speaker 2: quote assassinations and accelerating the collapse are possible things to do.
Speaker 2: Unquote not that possible since he's arrested and did not
Speaker 2: accelerate the collapse. But he also advocates that people unable
Speaker 2: to commit to taking direct action instead make connections with
Speaker 2: other white supremacists and grow a network to take over
Speaker 2: the country once America collapses. He recommends the writing of
Speaker 2: not accelerationists, including James Mason, who wrote the influential Nazi
Speaker 2: book Siege, and the Terror gram Collective, a group of
Speaker 2: white premacists from around the world who organized on the
Speaker 2: messaging platform telegram to share guides on how to do terrorism.
Speaker 2: He also recommends the writings of former Adam Waffen, members
Speaker 2: an American accelerationist group, writing quote, there's much to learn
Speaker 2: from the successes and mistakes of Adam Waffin. I think
Speaker 2: it's worth noting that Adam Waffin was also either like
Speaker 2: infiltrated or partially co opted and inspired by some nine
Speaker 2: A teachings. This is kind of how the more bizarre
Speaker 2: and occultic influence of O nine A seeped more into
Speaker 2: the kind of general American accelerationist Nazi millu. This was
Speaker 2: like in like twenty eighteen. Now. Castip advises that if
Speaker 2: the reader of the manifesto is already like pilled, that
Speaker 2: you should just skip the theory and just read practical
Speaker 2: how to guides for terrorism and bomb making, since quote unquote,
Speaker 2: there is no political solution. Huge amounts of violence will
Speaker 2: be required long past the days where we can vote
Speaker 2: for a Hitler to save us. White revolution is the
Speaker 2: only solution, unquote, which is I guess I'm kind of
Speaker 2: desensitized to this sort of stuff. In fact, I just
Speaker 2: find this slightly funny considering kind of the victory lap
Speaker 2: that like Steven Miller and like white nationalists are currently
Speaker 2: having in the government where many of them do think
Speaker 2: they can just vote for a Hitler to save us,
Speaker 2: and that Hitler may already be in office forever.
Speaker 3: Well, that is it's so shocking hearing all this as
Speaker 3: someone that doesn't know all these details. I mean, a
Speaker 3: I feel like the blinders just got taken off me
Speaker 3: and I'm seeking the world anew But be shocking that
Speaker 3: from a more normy perspective, in my mind, I would
Speaker 3: think all of these types would be pretty excited about
Speaker 3: how things are going politically, not trying to tear things
Speaker 3: down further.
Speaker 4: It's like, you guys won you know, accept it.
Speaker 2: Even Trump is not extremely enough for a lot of
Speaker 2: these guys. Yeah, they really go places now. Cassup was
Speaker 2: coordinating with multiple Telegram users, likely in Ukraine and Russia,
Speaker 2: on how to build a drone that can up and
Speaker 2: explosive and paid some individuals for some of the required materials,
Speaker 2: and also had a plan to flee to Ukraine after
Speaker 2: his attack. That he was coordinating with Ukrainian Nazis on telegram.
Speaker 4: Tough look for telegram.
Speaker 2: It's always a tough look for telegram. Not great, not
Speaker 2: a great platform, pretty much only used by these guys.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, he was talking about how he probably needs to
Speaker 2: quote unquote brush up on my Russian Ah, yeah, definitely
Speaker 2: before he flees to Ukraine after trying to kill the president.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you download due lingo after you do that.
Speaker 2: That's right, That's right. He had plans to meet up
Speaker 2: with with ten people with similar beliefs in Ukraine.
Speaker 4: My mind is just so blown by all this. I
Speaker 4: thought I knew things. I know nothing now.
Speaker 2: On March tenth, Sheriffs interviewed a classmate of cassup, and
Speaker 2: the classmate told them that the cassip would send quote
Speaker 2: unquote gore edit videos that floods flashing like gore, like
Speaker 2: bodygore imagery and war images put to Russian music sent
Speaker 2: via Snapchat. This is a common tactic done by these
Speaker 2: sort of like teenage extremists. This is this is a
Speaker 2: whole like subgenre of video that has like changed and
Speaker 2: altered in esthetic multiple times. Frankly, if you spend enough
Speaker 2: time on Twitter now in the comments of blue check
Speaker 2: Neo Nazis, you can find some of these edits where
Speaker 2: they have like you know, like techno techno like fast
Speaker 2: paced sometimes like Russian music set to like you know,
Speaker 2: glorified images of like like like Rome or Nazi Germany,
Speaker 2: or a large variety of stuff. But the gore genre
Speaker 2: is specifically unique to kind of the to the oh
Speaker 2: nine to a like a cultic Nazi branch, because they
Speaker 2: think that like viewing these images like increases your power
Speaker 2: level of like evil.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: It's a very video game view of like of like
Speaker 2: spiritual development. Like you have to you have to like
Speaker 2: raise your evil stat by looking at gore and this
Speaker 2: will make you more able to commit like big acts
Speaker 2: of violence.
Speaker 3: WHOA, So just desensitizing yourself to them, it just makes
Speaker 3: you a more violent person and capable of doing these
Speaker 3: things yourself.
Speaker 2: Correct correct, And that's like a big part of their process.
Speaker 2: This is why they send this type of stuff to
Speaker 2: a lot of like kids on the internet, because they
Speaker 2: hope that if they deesitize these kids, it'll be easier
Speaker 2: to convince them to then do acts of violence themselves.
Speaker 2: Cassip told his classmate that he intended to kill his
Speaker 2: parents by shooting them, but could not because he didn't
Speaker 2: have access to a gun. He later told his classmate
Speaker 2: that he would befriend someone with a gun and then
Speaker 2: steal it, and told him that he was in contact
Speaker 2: with a male in Russia via telegram and that they
Speaker 2: were both plotting to overthrow the government of the United
Speaker 2: States and assassinate President Trumps told the classmate that when
Speaker 2: he saw ten consecutive attacks in the news, it would
Speaker 2: have to be him.
Speaker 3: I've already transitioned to the sort of person who can
Speaker 3: now laugh at this because of the absurdity.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, and get those laughs in now, because
Speaker 2: the next section is much more dark. Oh no, because
Speaker 2: it's it's funny to laugh at a guy like this
Speaker 2: who mostly failed. I mean, he did kill his parents,
Speaker 2: that is. Oh no, he did kill his parents. He
Speaker 2: did flee through a different state. He wasn't smart enough,
Speaker 2: though he at least tracked him on him and his parents'
Speaker 2: cell phone and their car who he still had with him.
Speaker 2: So again, not a very good attacker, I guess. But no,
Speaker 2: like this, this kid murder of his parents sat in
Speaker 2: the house with their decomposing bodies for twelve days before
Speaker 2: trying to carry out the rest of his attack on
Speaker 2: the United States. So yeah, though though he did not
Speaker 2: succeed in his larger goals like these, these people still
Speaker 2: absolutely do get like groomed into doing violence. And this
Speaker 2: is something that that happens at a pretty frequent basis, honestly,
Speaker 2: to the point where these types of things don't make
Speaker 2: giant headlines anymore. They would have maybe in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: but now a lot of journalists are desensitized to this,
Speaker 2: and because it happens so frequently, it is less newsworthy,
Speaker 2: which is a very unfortunate place to be in for
Speaker 2: a country. Do you know what else is unfortunate? Michael?
Speaker 4: Oh no, what what's that?
Speaker 2: Having to pivot to ads actually necessary evil.
Speaker 4: It's way better than killing your parents.
Speaker 2: Uh yes, yes, I will go on record. I will
Speaker 2: go on record, eat me, get aboard. Sorry, I love ads. Actually,
Speaker 2: as it heads up, the next section will reference online
Speaker 2: exploitation and child sexual abuse material. All right, we are back.
Speaker 2: Let's get more depressing. Unfortunately, but I think we will
Speaker 2: find a way to turn this around. Well, not like
Speaker 2: in an optimistic way, but in a way that it's
Speaker 2: like useful. Well, we'll learn something together. So at the
Speaker 2: end of this section of this complaint that attempts to
Speaker 2: just describe Cassip's collapse driven political ideology is the appearance
Speaker 2: of this new term, nihilistic violent extremists. Right now. This
Speaker 2: was actually the second time this term has appeared in
Speaker 2: court documents. The earliest appearance of this term was in
Speaker 2: a March sentencing memo for a child sexual abuse material
Speaker 2: case first filed in November twenty twenty four, which was
Speaker 2: linked to the seven six' four child extortion and exploitation.
Speaker 2: Network Ken, kleppenstein who first reported on the use of
Speaker 2: the nihilism, term missed this first appearance and attributed the
Speaker 2: origin to the cassup. Case, michael are you similarly unfortunate
Speaker 2: enough to be aware of seven six?
Speaker 3: Four this is another one where my brain is more pure.
Speaker 3: THAN yours i guess at this point three day have to,
Speaker 3: get ruined so let's still let's.
Speaker 2: Do, IT yeah i mean it has been for a lot.
Speaker 2: Of People like i've been doing like, extremism Research and
Speaker 2: i've been aware of these guys for about. Four YEARS
Speaker 2: the fbi think first did their public announcement like warning
Speaker 2: parents about this in twenty. Twenty three seven six four
Speaker 2: is like a network of groups that operate either, On,
Speaker 2: Discord telegram instagram social. Media apps they're kind of inspired
Speaker 2: by some ASPECTS of OZ, nine a but they are
Speaker 2: much more focused on the production and distribution of child
Speaker 2: sexual abuse materials and trying to manipulate groom and like
Speaker 2: blackmail and extort miners into producing. THIS material a lot
Speaker 2: of it's done by other, Miners too like a lot
Speaker 2: of this is teens targeting, other teens with adults kind
Speaker 2: of helping this. Process along it's a pretty. Big problem
Speaker 2: there's been some good reporting on It in Wired And
Speaker 2: the guardian the past, few years if you want to. Read,
Speaker 2: more Now this march sentencing memo for the seven six
Speaker 2: four case describes seven six four and related groups as
Speaker 2: quote nihilist violent extremists who engage in criminal conduct Within
Speaker 2: The united states and engage with other. Extremists abroad seven
Speaker 2: six to Four networks accelerationist goals include social unrest in
Speaker 2: the downfall of the current, world order Including The united.
Speaker 2: States government members of seven six four work in concert
Speaker 2: with one another towards a common purpose of destroying civilized
Speaker 2: society through the corruption and exploitation of, vulnerable populations. Including,
Speaker 2: MINORS now i think this this definition may be a bit,
Speaker 2: too generalizing but it's. Not incorrect, like this this is
Speaker 2: correct in what the explicit goals of this, group are
Speaker 2: maybe not just every individual member of. This GROUP but
Speaker 2: i think it would be a mistake to kind of
Speaker 2: dismiss this definition as, outlandishly, Grandiose right it kind of
Speaker 2: it calls into like my, you know like, conspiracy theory,
Speaker 2: like framing because it sounds very like extravagant, and complicated
Speaker 2: and it kind, of is but it's also it's also,
Speaker 2: like simple it's it's people trying to automate the process
Speaker 2: of producing and distributing. Illegal MATERIALS but i do believe
Speaker 2: it is a mistake to completely, dismiss this both in
Speaker 2: terms of like the government trying to ascribe political motive
Speaker 2: for the distribution of, these materials and also the ideological
Speaker 2: justifications held by some members of. These groups now there
Speaker 2: have been two more seven six four Cases from april
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five that have used the nihilist of
Speaker 2: violent extremism designation in. Court, documents now part of kind
Speaker 2: of the struggle with, this is Like ken, kleinpenstein, reported
Speaker 2: quote it sounds to me like some demented philosophical justification
Speaker 2: for just being, a pedophile and like, It is but
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean the political motivations shouldn't, be discounted because
Speaker 2: those motivations impact how, they operate how these, groups spread
Speaker 2: which targets, they pick and other political actions members, might
Speaker 2: take like mass shootings targeting, racial MINORITIES targeting. Lgbtq individuals,
Speaker 2: SO yeah i get this is kind OF why i
Speaker 2: pushed back a little bit on this kind of dismissive
Speaker 2: tone towards this, like larger almost conspiratorial kind of matrix
Speaker 2: put onto groups like seven. Six, four now part of
Speaker 2: the tricky thing with use of this new nihilism term
Speaker 2: is that it's being used to rope in a variety
Speaker 2: of horrific incidents under a singular. Nebulous, Category right so
Speaker 2: let's take the Case.
Speaker 3: Of.
Speaker 2: Cassup Here cass up that the guy who killed his
Speaker 2: parents in a plot to Collapse The united states is
Speaker 2: a relatively bog standard Like neo nazi accelerationist with seemingly
Speaker 2: no direct ties to seven to six four activity besides
Speaker 2: an INTEREST in O, nine a which was just one
Speaker 2: of the inspirations that influenced seven sixty four as it
Speaker 2: evolved into its own complex machine about five. Years Ago
Speaker 2: but cassup openly admitted to being Radicalized by nazism and
Speaker 2: the white power, movement online and yet in his criminal
Speaker 2: complaint contains an expanded version of the nihilist violent, extremism
Speaker 2: definition which is literally copy and pasted from a child
Speaker 2: sexual abuse material sentencing memo from five, days before so
Speaker 2: they just used the same thing despite it not really applying.
Speaker 2: Reading quote individuals are, targeted online often through synchronized. Group
Speaker 2: chats nihilist violent extremists frequently conduct coordinated extortions of individuals
Speaker 2: by blackmailing them so they comply with demands of. The
Speaker 2: network these demands vary, and include but are not, limited
Speaker 2: to self mutilation online or, in person, sexual acts harms, to,
Speaker 2: animals sex sexual exploitation of siblings, and others acts, of
Speaker 2: violence threats, of, violence suicide, and murder so very very.
Speaker 2: Dark stuff the definition goes on to state how vulnerable
Speaker 2: individuals are targeted and members of the group attempt to
Speaker 2: gain notoriety throughout the network and spread fear among those
Speaker 2: targeted individuals for the purpose of accelerating the downfall of
Speaker 2: society and otherwise achieving the goal of nihilist. Violent extremists
Speaker 2: so while that does accurately describe groups like seven to,
Speaker 2: six four it doesn't really relate to the Case. Of
Speaker 2: kassap it's tricky because a lot of these seven six
Speaker 2: four guys Are, also nazis and a Lot of nazis are.
Speaker 2: Also pedophiles some of these guys start off as like
Speaker 2: evil occultic pedophiles who Associate with nazism because it's a
Speaker 2: pretty universal symbol. Of evil and sometimes it's the vice
Speaker 2: versa where they start off as like An anti semitic,
Speaker 2: right Winger a nazi Or, a fascist who then associate
Speaker 2: with this weird pedo occult stuff for variety of reasons,
Speaker 2: like spiritual perverted pleasure or tactical, network building and usually
Speaker 2: usually it's, A mix, klippenstein. Writes quote the Warrant alleges
Speaker 2: castip was in touch With the Order Of, nine Angles
Speaker 2: a Satanic neo nazi group that, espouses accelerationism a fancy
Speaker 2: word for the belief that destabilizing the social order allows for.
Speaker 2: Radical change that is pretty heady stuff to ascribe to
Speaker 2: a seventeen year old and ends up having the feeling
Speaker 2: of an episode of altered. Carbon UNQUOTE and i kind
Speaker 2: of like reject this, Dismissive, framing, like no these seventeen
Speaker 2: year olds are thinking, About this they are getting convinced
Speaker 2: of this. Material online that is the motivation for this
Speaker 2: isn't like a science. Fiction thing this is real and
Speaker 2: it's pretty common among like extremists. This age there's a
Speaker 2: lot of young teenage. Male extremists that's kind of their,
Speaker 2: main demographic and this type of stuff, Is, popular like
Speaker 2: this is at least popular within this small group. Of extremists,
Speaker 2: so yeah it is a little, bit heady but this
Speaker 2: is what they are genuinely thinking. About it it's not
Speaker 2: incorrect to like ascribe that. To them cassup openly admitted
Speaker 2: to this, connection well and.
Speaker 4: To even speak to the flip side.
Speaker 3: Of that, you know over the years making philosophy stuff,
Speaker 3: On YouTube i've gotten in touch with people who reached
Speaker 3: out to, be, Like oh i've been watching stuff since
Speaker 3: high SCHOOL when i was, LIKE fifteen i was watching
Speaker 3: these like philosophy YouTube videos on heady ideas and. Reading
Speaker 3: stuff so, LIKE me i was one of. These, people
Speaker 3: yeah there's like young folks out there who take big
Speaker 3: ideas very seriously and they have more absolute less than
Speaker 3: ever of. These things so it doesn't and it doesn't
Speaker 3: shock me at all that some teen could go down
Speaker 3: that rabbit hole or even could start reading Like A
Speaker 3: kurtis Jarvin Or nick land and going down those rabbit holes,
Speaker 3: and stuff especially now that some of these people are,
Speaker 3: you know put on Like The New york.
Speaker 4: Times and stuff.
Speaker 3: Like that, so exactly it seems weird to. DISMISS that
Speaker 3: i can understand the impulse to be like this just
Speaker 3: seems like a, very stupid evil. Teen, kid totally it
Speaker 3: seems just, As plausible like you're pointing out that there
Speaker 3: could be an actual engagement, with ideas and that's it's
Speaker 3: important to recognize that because anymore to get at the
Speaker 3: root of.
Speaker 2: That exactly, and like these people aren't necessarily like philosophical
Speaker 2: nihilists or, existential nihilists but they could be interpreted as
Speaker 2: reacting to a general like passive nihilistic culture with this
Speaker 2: form of like pseudo, political nihilism this attempt at like,
Speaker 2: social negation like total. Systems collapse but even still they
Speaker 2: aren't totally, political nihilists since they have a very clear
Speaker 2: system of hierarchy that they want the current world order.
Speaker 2: Replaced with though these individuals may be seen as like
Speaker 2: victims of nihilism and like in like in Like the. Nietzschean,
Speaker 2: sense now like my main problem with the nihilist violent
Speaker 2: extremism term is that it's so depoliticized and like in
Speaker 2: a way that's rife for. Political abuse this term can
Speaker 2: be used to cover what the government deems as violence
Speaker 2: stemming from like apathy from frustration, with society as well
Speaker 2: as like anti tech or anti. Civilization politics and this
Speaker 2: is all coming from like. Top down at The New
Speaker 2: federal Bureau. Of investigation, For Years cash pattel has closely
Speaker 2: associated with Q. And on has helped the legal defense
Speaker 2: Campaigns for january, sixth insurrectionists Which Included, Proud, boys oathkeepers Since,
Speaker 2: three percenters and now as head OF, the fbi HE'S
Speaker 2: investigating fbi agents who Worked those january. Sixth Cases, joe
Speaker 2: kent the new director Of the National Counter, terrorism center
Speaker 2: has made media Appearances With nick fuentes And neo Nazi YouTuber.
Speaker 2: David carlson He Hired proud boys to consult in his failed,
Speaker 2: congressional campaign and his Friends With patriot Prayer Leader. Joey
Speaker 2: gibson kent has repeatedly called FOR the fbi To. Investigate
Speaker 2: antifa the co founder Of The Global project against Hat,
Speaker 2: And Extremism, heidi barrick has Said THAT patel's QAnon Links
Speaker 2: and Deputy Director dan bongino's public conspiracism and bigotry make
Speaker 2: taking the threat of far right extremism qute unquote impossible
Speaker 2: for these. Two men, she, SAYS quote i think it
Speaker 2: makes it very unlikely that the far right will continue
Speaker 2: to be seen as the threat it actually is in
Speaker 2: terms of hate crimes and. Domestic terrorism all this marks
Speaker 2: a huge departure from The first, trump administration where THE
Speaker 2: the fbi for the first time declared wise premacy the
Speaker 2: country's greatest domestic. Terrorism threat facts about violence and its
Speaker 2: perpetuators probably won't matter this, time. Around unquote and these
Speaker 2: changes are already. Taking place an old counter terrorism strategy
Speaker 2: guide was removed From The white house Website. IN january
Speaker 2: A current fbi agent was Quoted In vanity, fairs, saying
Speaker 2: quote the key is The Domestic Intelligence. Operations guide if they,
Speaker 2: Change that patel will be able to shift domestic terrorism
Speaker 2: investigations away from the accelerationists and the right wing street
Speaker 2: fighters and towards THINGS like Blm and. Antifa unquote patel
Speaker 2: has Cut The Domestic terrorism office staffing and reassigned agents and,
Speaker 2: intelligence analysts with NEW senior fbi officials reportedly considering to
Speaker 2: disband the entire domestic terrorism. Operations section, in ADDITION the
Speaker 2: fbi has discontinued their previous Domestic terrorism, tracking tool where
Speaker 2: they take relevant investigations to identify and track trends for
Speaker 2: terrorism probes across. The country sources for Outlet's like reuters
Speaker 2: say that changes to the agency will reduce counter terrorism
Speaker 2: operations against far right and racially motivated the creamists. And Militias,
Speaker 2: jacob ware a domestic terrorism expert At the Council On,
Speaker 2: foreign Relations told, reuter's quote there is a, BROADER desire
Speaker 2: i think within the administration to at best ignore data
Speaker 2: and put their head in, the sand and at worst
Speaker 2: to realign resources away from this. BATTLE unquote a Spokesperson
Speaker 2: For higher Representative Of jim Jordan told reuters that the
Speaker 2: termination of the domestic terrorism tracking tool is a quote
Speaker 2: great step in the right direction of RETURNING the fbi
Speaker 2: to its primary crime fighting. Mission Unquote representative jordan previously
Speaker 2: in twenty, twenty three ran a congressional panel that ALLEGED
Speaker 2: the fbi terrorism case tagging tool was being improperly used to.
Speaker 2: Target Conservatives after, january sixth THREE former fbi agents testified
Speaker 2: At the republican, led panel and two of those former
Speaker 2: agents admitted to being Paid, by patel who at the
Speaker 2: time was not director OF. The fbi he was just
Speaker 2: a right. Winger influencer after being kicked out of the
Speaker 2: government after The first, trump administration we've also Seen The
Speaker 2: Joint Terrorism task force largely shift their efforts towards, immigration
Speaker 2: ENFORCEMENT helping ice, with deportations and the so called Wave of.
Speaker 2: Tesla terrorism and like the other thing is that this
Speaker 2: new nihilist violent extremism term isn't just REPLACING. A gave
Speaker 2: it's not just replacing the anti government or anti authority
Speaker 2: of violent extremism BECAUSE the agave term itself has, three
Speaker 2: subcategories as referenced TO an fbi document that outlines domestic
Speaker 2: terrorist activity from twenty fifteen to, twenty nineteen this includes
Speaker 2: a militia, violent extremists anarchists, violent extremists and sovereign citizen.
Speaker 2: Violent extremists and even in addition to, those three there's
Speaker 2: actually a newer subclassification from twenty twenty three CALLED a,
Speaker 2: gave other which really isn't a great term. At all
Speaker 2: this is the problem with trying to use these like
Speaker 2: tracking and tagging tools is that they can get. Very
Speaker 2: convoluted but now they've seemingly collapsed all of these and
Speaker 2: are just using the.
Speaker 5: Term nihilism so would, you, say like when you bring
Speaker 5: Up the, tesla example is one of to be very,
Speaker 5: reductive here the big risks at play that like someone
Speaker 5: Who starts tesla on fire or causes some damage At
Speaker 5: a tesla dealership largely for the motivation of trying to
Speaker 5: stick It To elon musk or something like that gets
Speaker 5: classified in a way BY the fbi that is similar
Speaker 5: to some of the folks you have previously talked about exactly.
Speaker 3: Doing things that most rational humans could agree are deeply
Speaker 3: more insidious than like set a car.
Speaker 2: On fire they can frame this as like a rejection. Of,
Speaker 2: society yeah the. Same way like there's been talk that
Speaker 2: they're going to try to use this label to explain
Speaker 2: Cases Like UNITED, healthcare ceo shooting, of ars Attack At josh.
Speaker 2: Shapiro's house they're going to be using this term to
Speaker 2: apply to kind of any act that they see is
Speaker 2: like a contrary to like society and civilization and anything
Speaker 2: that's stemming from frustration. With society and that's that's a.
Speaker 2: Huge problem and in, doing so they're shifting focus away
Speaker 2: from right wing militias who do the majority of like actual.
Speaker 2: Lethal violence when these reports from like the past five years,
Speaker 2: talk about, you know militia, violent extremism it talks about
Speaker 2: how there is an increase to lethal threat from these
Speaker 2: militias to law enforcement and government personnel due to factors
Speaker 2: related to grievances from the perceptions of fraud in the twenty,
Speaker 2: twenty election government measures RELATED to covid nineteen and legislation
Speaker 2: to restrict firearms or expand immigration or manage. Public land
Speaker 2: and these are the people that do the vast majority
Speaker 2: of planned attacks or. Executed attacks this report between twenty
Speaker 2: three outlines two attempted bombings by militia violenctreamists in early twenty,
Speaker 2: twenty one one by an individual targeted against data center
Speaker 2: thought to provide services TO the FBI, and cia the
Speaker 2: author by two people against A State democratic party Headquarters, In,
Speaker 2: sacramento california as well as the quote unquote do dozens
Speaker 2: of militia violenctaramists arrested for their Involvement in. January sixth
Speaker 2: so even though we're going to take the gas off
Speaker 2: of groups like those as well as as racially motivated,
Speaker 2: violent creamists this definition can still include a lot of
Speaker 2: like anarchist, violent creamists WHICH the fbi admits in a
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three report are most likely to engage in
Speaker 2: non lethal criminal activity and just impact law.
Speaker 3: Enforcement, operations yeah it makes me think of like climate activism,
Speaker 3: as well and, you know the work of those in
Speaker 3: the climate community that call for like the destruction of
Speaker 3: equipment and not the harm of human. LIFE totally, i
Speaker 3: mean and the irony of course that you could call someone,
Speaker 3: you know disabling an oil pipeline a nihilist extremists when
Speaker 3: the act they're doing is precisely for the purpose of
Speaker 3: ensuring the continued existence of human civilization on a.
Speaker 2: Large scale that's the big. Issue here Like the trump
Speaker 2: government still wants a term that focuses on what some
Speaker 2: people would like colloquially refer to as like, accelerationist terrorism
Speaker 2: and that does encompass some of the extremist violence from
Speaker 2: the weirder corners of the, far right like in the Case,
Speaker 2: of cassup but as well as as like leftists or
Speaker 2: posts left like. Anarchistic extremism but in the, administration's mind
Speaker 2: the previous terms for this were tainted by crackdowns on
Speaker 2: right wing or patriot Movements after, january sixth and like
Speaker 2: the nihilist of violence streamism term is not replacing the
Speaker 2: term terrorism necessarily like The way clippenstein's suggested in, his
Speaker 2: article the word terrorism appears frequently in these very documents
Speaker 2: that we've. Been discussing nor does the term terrorism have
Speaker 2: quote unquote limitations, in Law as klippenstein said that like
Speaker 2: prevent its use in. Political prosecution, if anything it carries
Speaker 2: kind of special powers of punishment which can be over
Speaker 2: applied to increase, the sentences, swayed juries and. Strip rights
Speaker 2: we've seen bills To label antifa as terrorists introduced to,
Speaker 2: this year The whole tesla, terrorism thing, and historically like
Speaker 2: the use of terrorism has been used as a repression
Speaker 2: Tool In Atlanta's Stop cop, city movement which similarly has
Speaker 2: like a climate focus like. You mentioned and what this
Speaker 2: new nihilism term lets them do is it ALLOWS the
Speaker 2: dromp administration to see to their base that they aren't
Speaker 2: going to be going after like right wing malicious style,
Speaker 2: groups anymore not, anti government anti. Authority, extreamists instead they're
Speaker 2: just going to target zany weirdos who want to destroy
Speaker 2: society it's, a looser more flexible term that can be
Speaker 2: applied to a much wider swath. Of people and like
Speaker 2: the kind of FINAL thing i WANT to i want
Speaker 2: to note here is that four groups like like seven,
Speaker 2: six four we really don't have a good term. For
Speaker 2: them like some people have defended this nihilistic term specifically
Speaker 2: for groups like seven, six four since that was where
Speaker 2: it originally appeared in an industry that these groups kind
Speaker 2: of defy. Classic categorization some of them are certainly motivated
Speaker 2: by racial bias in the Case, of cassup who's like
Speaker 2: tied With, oin a but not specifically seven. Six four
Speaker 2: but a lot of these other seven six four guys
Speaker 2: who are mostly in it for, the pedophilia still do
Speaker 2: have anti government ideologies that they are roped. In WITH
Speaker 2: now i have seen a few alternative terms lofted by
Speaker 2: certain independent researchers that don't really do a good job
Speaker 2: but are gaining Influence under. Trump's government there's This like
Speaker 2: freeland Researcher named rebecca Or, bix wrights who mostly Operates.
Speaker 2: On twitter she's proposed the term satanic accelerationism or s
Speaker 2: act Not good and this kind of outlines my problems
Speaker 2: with this person's research now because all of the legitimate
Speaker 2: extremism researchers have kind of moved Away from twitter and
Speaker 2: are Just On. Blue, sky now people like this have
Speaker 2: like exploded in Influence under elon's Shepherding, of twitter and
Speaker 2: like this this person just spreads like satanic panic style
Speaker 2: writing that appeals To conservative. Christian audiences she boasts about
Speaker 2: how many mutuals she has With these. Nazi terrorists she Posts,
Speaker 2: on rumble she went On, info wars so that kind
Speaker 2: of tells you everything you need to know about. This
Speaker 2: person and like a big part of her work is
Speaker 2: trying to downplay the right wing and a white supremacist influence.
Speaker 2: In extremism she excitedly, posted QUOTE the fbi has coined
Speaker 2: a new term for this type, of individual nihilist. Bilin
Speaker 2: extremists this makes me so happy because it indicates that
Speaker 2: law enforcement are listening to researchers on the grid and
Speaker 2: are no longer considering these Groups neo nazis or quote unquote.
Speaker 2: White supremacist, so yeah this is a big part of
Speaker 2: this push is appealing to these types of people who
Speaker 2: don't want their weird pedo freaks to be labeled as,
Speaker 2: right wing even though they all are pretty far right
Speaker 2: wing terrorists in. Most cases this researcher also falsely Linked
Speaker 2: cast up With A ukrainian nazi GROUP. Called mku she
Speaker 2: later retracted this claim, on substack but left the original
Speaker 2: viral tweet up online because. Hey engagement her substack post,
Speaker 2: reads QUOTE when i first heard the News of Nikota,
Speaker 2: cast up my mind immediately darted to ANOTHER nine A
Speaker 2: and mku linked Individual. Named nikota this turned out to
Speaker 2: be a, MERE coincidence, i know because The other nikota
Speaker 2: reached out to me personally. To clarify it's moments like
Speaker 2: these that caused me to reflect on just how big
Speaker 2: this movement really is and just how close to THE
Speaker 2: fire i. Am unquote this is not how you do.
Speaker 2: Extremism reporting this is not how you, do journalism but
Speaker 2: This does i'm. And straight kind of the problem with
Speaker 2: this term, is, that yeah groups like this do need a,
Speaker 2: different term maybe, like accelerationists violent. A creamists that's a
Speaker 2: term you could use that if you're going to remove
Speaker 2: all the. Other acronyms but certainly the nihilism label just
Speaker 2: kind of complicates things and allows for the targeting of
Speaker 2: just a massive swath of the population that could become
Speaker 2: like political prosecutions that then get linked to these child
Speaker 2: sexual abust. Material, cases okay that is my that's my that's. My,
Speaker 2: script michael how do you feel about that? Info dump i'm, so.
Speaker 3: SORRY truly i you know YOU'VE and i can send it.
Speaker 3: To it you've extracted a part of my soul and
Speaker 3: put it into a. Cosmic, TOILET today i know More
Speaker 3: than i've known before as a as, a human As,
Speaker 3: an american as. A parent i'm terrified on. Every front and,
Speaker 3: you know my my simple guy takeaway here is, the
Speaker 3: yeah like the idea that this is going to both
Speaker 3: let some of the worst ball off, the hook or
Speaker 3: at least make it harder to classify them with.
Speaker 4: The groups they should be, classified with while also.
Speaker 3: Making it easier to lump in forms of what many
Speaker 3: of us would consider more reasonable political activism under that
Speaker 3: umbrella is. Quite BAD and, i think, of course, for
Speaker 3: me due to my. Pet interest, you know all of
Speaker 3: these instances of continuing, to like pervert and misuse, philosophical
Speaker 3: terms to have meanings developed over hundreds and thousands of
Speaker 3: years for these political ends is.
Speaker 2: Very, Upsetting well i'm excited to usher in the new
Speaker 2: Wave of kirkergardian violent extremists who are going to usher in.
Speaker 4: Total get me on. A list. STOP it.
Speaker 2: I am actually sorry that this went on nearly double
Speaker 2: the length OF which i thought it. Had planned after
Speaker 2: such a, Depressing episode i'm going to ask a kind
Speaker 2: of an, odd question what philosophy booked do you think
Speaker 2: people should read in this, political moment because a lot
Speaker 2: of people are approaching me with, like HOW do i?
Speaker 2: Stay sane HOW do i stay HOW do i keep
Speaker 2: going when things feel? So bad and, For me i've
Speaker 2: always turned. To philosophy i've been recommending different books to,
Speaker 2: different Friends and i'm kind of interested in what you
Speaker 2: have to say about kind of what philosophy can offer
Speaker 2: us in these times of like. Existential.
Speaker 3: TORMENT yeah i mean a really simple ONE that i
Speaker 3: talk about way too Much Is Cure care guards To The,
Speaker 3: present age which you find in this Book Called two
Speaker 3: ages that's easy. To buy it's normally, really cheap or
Speaker 3: you can just read it. Online someplace that kind of
Speaker 3: describes a society in which people get caught up in
Speaker 3: media and reflection and the bs they are told rather
Speaker 3: than developing their subjectivity, for themselves and that one's. Really
Speaker 3: great in terms of more, Contemporary stuff i've Been Very
Speaker 3: frederick jamison pilled recently NICE and, I think, I mean
Speaker 3: I've read jamison before on, and off but recently dove in.
Speaker 3: More deeply and There's, ONE okay i have it at,
Speaker 3: arms REACH so i can say that the title Correctly
Speaker 3: that i've really. Been enjoying it's Called An American Utopia
Speaker 3: dual power In The universal Army By, frederick jamison edited By,
Speaker 3: Saw voygijiak and it's This large jamison essay about what
Speaker 3: he sees as an alternative for leftist Power, in america
Speaker 3: responses from a bunch of. OTHER scholars i have found it.
Speaker 3: Very interesting but, for me AT least i find comfort
Speaker 3: in the fact that others have accurately diagnosed and understood
Speaker 3: what is happening right now and at least give us
Speaker 3: the tools to understand the thing so it feels less nebulous.
Speaker 4: And mysterious we.
Speaker 2: Don't have to reinvent the wheel all. The, time yeah
Speaker 2: and that's SOMETHING that i feel like some leftists kind
Speaker 2: of get, trapped in or it's kind of a two,
Speaker 2: sides thing is what some people just get fully lost
Speaker 2: in like the labyrinth, of theory and the other people
Speaker 2: get lost in trying to constantly reinvent or like make
Speaker 2: for the first time stuff that, already, Exists RIGHT and
Speaker 2: i think there's a really careful balance between like reading
Speaker 2: some stuff so that you can like know what's going
Speaker 2: on and not feel the need to try to, like
Speaker 2: it cause every, you know philosophical evolution to come about
Speaker 2: via your. Own, thought yeah you don't have to be
Speaker 2: the one to.
Speaker 4: Do it someone else are.
Speaker 2: You doing you're, not alone like other people have, done
Speaker 2: this and you should still like think for yourself and.
Speaker 2: Still compare but people have thought about this type of.
Speaker 2: Stuff before people have been in bad political, situations before
Speaker 2: and it's it's useful to know what. They've thought and
Speaker 2: like this, is like, you know my work is mostly
Speaker 2: looking at like current events and like trying to track
Speaker 2: but like extremism and like what the government, is doing and,
Speaker 2: you know more information always helps me choose how to
Speaker 2: navigate in. The world THAT'S why i do episodes, Like
Speaker 2: THIS and i think philosophy is just one other side.
Speaker 2: Of that unless you have anything else, to say do
Speaker 2: you want to talk about where people can find you
Speaker 2: online and your new.
Speaker 3: YouTube, CHANNEL yeah i have a recently launched YouTube channel
Speaker 3: that's just under The NAME Michael oh BURNS and i
Speaker 3: think it's literally just YouTube SLASH Michael o burns, them,
Speaker 3: quickly yep YouTube SLASH Michael o Burns or i'm gonna
Speaker 3: be doing more stuff, quite regularly extremes and, radio essays
Speaker 3: largely doing some of the stuff we're just, talking about
Speaker 3: using philosophy and concepts and from theory to try to
Speaker 3: understand what's going on in both the political and like
Speaker 3: the social and interpersonal Levels that i'm working on A
Speaker 3: thing i'm excited about on like depression and capitalism and.
Speaker 4: Mental health, so Yeah and i'm on all most of
Speaker 4: the Social media's.
Speaker 3: I'm Just michael Burns OR Michael, o burns relatively easy
Speaker 3: to find on.
Speaker 2: Most, places well thank you, So much michael for joining
Speaker 2: me in this dive through the darkest depths Of the
Speaker 2: internet and, the extremes a milieu that is Festering in america.
Speaker 2: And abroad thanks for.
Speaker 4: Having me.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: Could happen here is a production Of Cool. Zone media
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Speaker 1: listed directly in. Episode descriptions thanks, for listening