Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte? You guys, welcome back to Are You
Speaker 1: a Charlotte. We are here with the fantastic Dylan mulvaney,
Speaker 1: and we are going to rewatch now more specifically, do
Speaker 1: our rewatch of cocka Doodle Doo. Yes, the finale of
Speaker 1: season three, Work Sex the City.
Speaker 2: We're going to try to be less adhd if possible, promises,
Speaker 2: but it's a good time.
Speaker 1: It's a good time, all right. So this to me
Speaker 1: is in so many ways as the Highs and the lows,
Speaker 1: right Like, it does so many great things, and then
Speaker 1: it has this this slightly insane and cringe worthy Samantha storyline,
Speaker 1: which we will get into specifically, but it also has
Speaker 1: just incredible storyline, especially for Carrie and Miranda. Yes, I think,
Speaker 1: and the reason that I love it is so many
Speaker 1: different things. But I mean, first of all, there's things
Speaker 1: like one I did not remember, like this craziness that
Speaker 1: Carrie hears roosters crowing all night and all day, which
Speaker 1: is also.
Speaker 2: Odd, and it was in a sound machine. No, they
Speaker 2: were real.
Speaker 1: They were real, and they were in a veterinary like rescue.
Speaker 1: They were rescued. She finds out next door on the
Speaker 1: Upper East Side, which, okay, I've never heard of this.
Speaker 2: They got rescued from cock fighting, right, which is.
Speaker 1: A real thing. That there are still cockfighting things going on,
Speaker 1: which is insane, right, But like you know, I've never
Speaker 1: I don't know if any rooster rescues in New York City.
Speaker 2: Well, sounds like there's a hole in the market. I mean,
Speaker 2: maybe here we go.
Speaker 1: I should go back and ask them, like, where'd you
Speaker 1: guys come up with this? Because usually they.
Speaker 2: Haven't see actual roosters, now, I never didn't think.
Speaker 1: She does go to the vet, right, and then she
Speaker 1: feels bad when she finds out that they've been rescued
Speaker 1: right from the bronx.
Speaker 2: I think, like the line producer probably said no on
Speaker 2: that one of seeing the real roosters, probably, but then
Speaker 2: they said we'll just stick them in the basement.
Speaker 1: Right, And she's like no, no, no. She feels guilty
Speaker 1: that the poor roosters are going to have to go
Speaker 1: to the basement. But also she never hears anyone really
Speaker 1: tell her that it's roosters not chickens, because then when
Speaker 1: she talks to Big on the phone, she's like there's
Speaker 1: chickens and they're crowing, and he's like roosters.
Speaker 2: She's like whatever, she's going crazy.
Speaker 1: She is losing her mind a little bit. But it's adorable.
Speaker 1: And also I think it was really hot that summer.
Speaker 1: That's what went through my head many times. Oh, and
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you my story about the roof. This
Speaker 1: is the one thing that I remember the most vividly.
Speaker 1: I didn't even remember that awesome scene that Kyle and
Speaker 1: I did laying on against the wall. I had no
Speaker 1: memory of it. Alan Culture, the director brought it up
Speaker 1: to me in his episode as something like he was
Speaker 1: bringing up the things that he fondly remembered as being
Speaker 1: like good moments that we did together, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember that at all. He said, I really
Speaker 1: loved it because at the time, he said, we had
Speaker 1: tried to block it many different ways, and then finally
Speaker 1: we were like, none of this works. Let's just lean
Speaker 1: against the wall, Like, let's just lean against the wall
Speaker 1: and just talk simply, you know, which I think really
Speaker 1: was powerful and worked.
Speaker 2: Honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was great. It was amazing, and I was
Speaker 1: so happy that it that it stood the test of
Speaker 1: time and was awesome, and I don't even remember, Like
Speaker 1: online we put Kyle and people were like, why did
Speaker 1: you even give up with that character train? And I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, because I forget the things right. I
Speaker 1: vaguely remember the impotence, but I didn't remember that. Then
Speaker 1: we have sex once we separate. It's all very interesting.
Speaker 2: But the roof the roof fact, this is the roof
Speaker 2: scene at the end of the episode, the roofstee at
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 1: Of the episode with the very very much used photograph
Speaker 1: of us, where they were like laugh, everybody laugh, and
Speaker 1: so we're like, ah, it was so hot that the
Speaker 1: tar on the top of that rooftop was melted and
Speaker 1: ruined all of our shoes.
Speaker 2: On the bottom side.
Speaker 1: Yes, And it was the end of the season. So
Speaker 1: Sin and I had gotten an ice cream truck because
Speaker 1: we knew it was hot, right to bring ice cream
Speaker 1: for the whole crew, But we were on the roof.
Speaker 1: It was like thirty floors up. The elevator broke people,
Speaker 1: so we had to walk. We had to get the
Speaker 1: boxes of ice cream and walk them up all of
Speaker 1: these stairs. It was probably melted by the time. It
Speaker 1: was a little melted, but no one cared. No one
Speaker 1: so happy to get anything cold in any way, even
Speaker 1: slightly cold up to the tippy top and the other
Speaker 1: thing that I saw recently, and it really really just
Speaker 1: brought back so many memories for me, because I do
Speaker 1: remember when I talk to people on the podcast, they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you guys were the biggest hit right away. That was
Speaker 1: not our experience. Our experience was that we had to
Speaker 1: work hard and we had to do press. We would
Speaker 1: talk to anybody for years and years and years. Right,
Speaker 1: Someone like ET maybe or E came to the set
Speaker 1: that day that sweltering over one hundred degree day to
Speaker 1: talk to maybe all of us, but definitely Sarah Jessica
Speaker 1: about who what is the show? People were still asking
Speaker 1: us what is the show? Right? This is season three
Speaker 1: and she gives the most adorable interview that is on Instagram.
Speaker 1: She just she's like, well, I played Carrie and I
Speaker 1: write a sex column for the absurd. He and I
Speaker 1: have girlfriends and they're in the show with me, and
Speaker 1: there's Charlotte and she believes in love and she's a
Speaker 1: little bit more like so by the just couldn't like
Speaker 1: straight up do you what I mean? And she tells
Speaker 1: the whole thing, like just in one day, which if
Speaker 1: you ever see Sir Jessica now in an interview situation,
Speaker 1: it's a much more complex situation going on. Yes, she's
Speaker 1: not really anybody any any easy answers, no, no. But
Speaker 1: back then, that's how important we felt like it was
Speaker 1: to sell the show. Yes, the people understand, like, we're
Speaker 1: not a logline of this exactly, We're not real sex,
Speaker 1: you know on HBO in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: We this is what we are. It's adorable. And she's
Speaker 1: wearing that whole outfit. She's wearing her.
Speaker 2: Little like it's like a diaper kind of but it's
Speaker 2: the cutest diaper you've ever seen in your entire life,
Speaker 2: with like a.
Speaker 1: Whole thing off, and it's like a creation of She
Speaker 1: and Passion were.
Speaker 2: Kind of giving like thirteen going on thirty.
Speaker 1: Percent, which I think is like similar years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're back in it, babe, I.
Speaker 1: Know we are back. And I also feel like Pat
Speaker 1: Pat has got me in a short skirt, which is
Speaker 1: really against my you know what I want to be wearing.
Speaker 1: And you can tell by the fact that I literally
Speaker 1: don't get up off that thing. I like wriggle around
Speaker 1: a little bit. I'm like worried about my legs. I'm
Speaker 1: just really worried about my legs. The whole scene, that's
Speaker 1: all I can think of what I watch it, and
Speaker 1: I just remember like just the heat radiating up from
Speaker 1: that bar, you know, and everybody just sweat weltering and
Speaker 1: sweaty and trying to be jovial. And Carrie's got to
Speaker 1: get up and do her her turn, and she was
Speaker 1: all worried because she's wearing her nude fish net, which
Speaker 1: was like a big thing at the time. We were
Speaker 1: all out trying to find the nude fish net.
Speaker 2: Very have seen those yet, I don't think this year.
Speaker 1: I haven't either. Okay, anyway, back to the episode. Back
Speaker 1: to the episode, So let's just do Charlotte because that's
Speaker 1: going to be the easiest. Great So, yeah, it's Charlotte.
Speaker 1: We come to her at the coffee shop. That's the
Speaker 1: first time we see her, and she's sad about Trey
Speaker 1: and she said about that she separated and that who
Speaker 1: wants to be divorced at thirty whatever she is at
Speaker 1: the time, and they're kind of trying to Oh, they
Speaker 1: come over to my apartment and unpack, which was weird
Speaker 1: because I guess we haven't gone through the whole thing
Speaker 1: where I end up getting his apartment. I hadn't remembered
Speaker 1: that at all. But there's a pink lamp that I
Speaker 1: still have in my own bedroom, and there's a mirror
Speaker 1: that I had for many years that moved with Charlotte,
Speaker 1: you know, around that I got to keep, you know,
Speaker 1: which is nice. Yeah, I love that pink lamp. But
Speaker 1: I don't remember this at all. And it's so sweet
Speaker 1: that the girls come to help me unpack. And it's
Speaker 1: a very Alan culter scene because we're all moving in
Speaker 1: and out of frame, but the frame doesn't really move.
Speaker 1: And it was a really hard thing as an actor
Speaker 1: to remember, like, oh, I've got to be to this
Speaker 1: place by this line, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was his specialty in a way. So we always knew,
Speaker 1: like you have to be like have your thinking cap on,
Speaker 1: like have enough coffee on the day that Alan culture
Speaker 1: is there so that you can do the choreography exactly
Speaker 1: on Broadway.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: I hope I can live up to that fantasy. Then
Speaker 1: then so I say, oh, I have this scene where
Speaker 1: I like walk to the doorway and say, like, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be great if men didn't exist? And then we
Speaker 1: wouldn't feel disappointed? I mean, have you seen this thing
Speaker 1: about this article that this woman wrote about that people
Speaker 1: are embarrassed to post their boyfriends. Now, yes, it's so great.
Speaker 2: It's kind of iconic, right, but it is it's how
Speaker 2: wild that we got to that from where she was
Speaker 2: in that doorway.
Speaker 1: Right, because like back then, you know, and this is
Speaker 1: someone who desperately wanted to get married, right, but then
Speaker 1: who's obviously so disappointed.
Speaker 2: And every other character had almost said that in a
Speaker 2: different context before, but we never thought we'd see never, Charlotte.
Speaker 1: Never, and Charlotte's like, it would just be so much
Speaker 1: better if there were nomen and we could just feel
Speaker 1: good about ourselves. And that's kind of what we're seeing
Speaker 1: in this interesting twenty twenty five version of like we
Speaker 1: can make our own living. We've got our great house,
Speaker 1: we've got our great friends, we've got our dogs, we're
Speaker 1: traveling wherever it is.
Speaker 2: If it's kind of creating boundaries and relationships in a
Speaker 2: way that like of being so clear about what it
Speaker 2: is you're looking for and what you want in someone else,
Speaker 2: and if they don't meet the mark, then your character
Speaker 2: did that I think probably the clearest of being pretty specific.
Speaker 1: She was certainly very specific. I think her the main
Speaker 1: lesson in Tray, which I didn't realize was as complicated
Speaker 1: as it is, right and we're only part way through
Speaker 1: it by this episode, but you know, her issue was
Speaker 1: that she wanted the picture book, right, like you know
Speaker 1: how there's going to be that scene where he comes
Speaker 1: to take the picture with her, even though.
Speaker 2: It's really over one of the home and gardens.
Speaker 1: He understands, yeah, exactly, he understands how important that is
Speaker 1: for her, right, and that is something that's really important
Speaker 1: for her. But that is an empty picture, you know,
Speaker 1: And so that's her lesson, is that learning that your
Speaker 1: your picture perfect doesn't make you happy, right, And that's
Speaker 1: why then Harry you know, shows up on this and
Speaker 1: does make her happy, Thank goodness, because that's what she
Speaker 1: really wanted and needed. But you have to be smart
Speaker 1: enough and know yourself well enough. Right.
Speaker 2: She almost manifested too hard, And I think for.
Speaker 1: Sure she was so focused. And I do think that
Speaker 1: when when women focus, they focus, you know, one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty percent, and they do get what they want
Speaker 1: it's just not necessarily they don't They don't want what's
Speaker 1: actually going to make them happy, right, But they don't
Speaker 1: know this until they get it and find that out right.
Speaker 1: And that's what I loved about Charlotte. And that was
Speaker 1: the plan. I mean, our writers this was They told
Speaker 1: me that was the plan, and I was like, okay.
Speaker 1: But then once Kyle came, I was like, but you guys,
Speaker 1: we can't let him go.
Speaker 2: But he played it so well.
Speaker 1: So brilliantly, so brilliantly, so brilliantly. He's so good in
Speaker 1: that scene when we lean on the on the backboard
Speaker 1: and I ask him, you know whatever it is, it's
Speaker 1: like the lower part of the wall. And I ask
Speaker 1: him like, did you actually ever really want to marry me?
Speaker 1: And he says, well, I don't know that I really
Speaker 1: wanted to marry anyone. Does he say that or something
Speaker 1: like that? He said, I just thought I should. It's
Speaker 1: nice to hear man saying that. Yes, interesting right, like.
Speaker 2: The and it's a different flip of your coin, because
Speaker 2: you obviously were like, I should get married. I will
Speaker 2: get married, and it should look exactly like this, So
Speaker 2: he almost you were guilty of a similar crime.
Speaker 1: Definitely, which is so perfect, so perfect, yea, so perfect.
Speaker 1: And then he says very sweetly, and I say something like, well,
Speaker 1: why did you then? And he said, you know, because
Speaker 1: I felt like I had to in society tell me
Speaker 1: I have to. But also I didn't think I'd ever
Speaker 1: find anyone better than you or whatever, more perfect or
Speaker 1: something so sweet.
Speaker 2: Sad like he loved her.
Speaker 1: I know, but it says, but then we carry on
Speaker 1: next season.
Speaker 2: Oh yep, sod it.
Speaker 1: I don't remember.
Speaker 2: I don't know what happens, okay, because not all that
Speaker 2: the crazy sex hasn't happened yet.
Speaker 1: No, I mean just once, the one the one time, right,
Speaker 1: But can I just say I don't know if I
Speaker 1: should say this, but I mean I could watch Kyle
Speaker 1: and I kissing all day.
Speaker 2: Oh it's it works, it's let me tell you. Chemistry
Speaker 2: is great. And it was so I think it was
Speaker 2: as an audience member, we we wanted.
Speaker 1: That, like it was like I want it and I
Speaker 1: was in it, so refreshing.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also how interesting that you've built this relationship
Speaker 2: with this this relationship up with this other actor and
Speaker 2: you haven't done any of those sex scenes, whereas everybody
Speaker 2: else is meeting someone the first day and then so
Speaker 2: you're obviously so comfortable with Kyle at that point, right,
Speaker 2: and then it's like you're finally doing what everybody else
Speaker 2: has been doing the entire season.
Speaker 1: Which is a much weight. It's very hard to just
Speaker 1: meet someone and have to jump in bed with them
Speaker 1: on the set, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's very odd, and so Kyle was probably one of
Speaker 2: the few that you got that to do that with.
Speaker 1: Oh, for sure, for sure, for sure. I mean I
Speaker 1: have been making out with him for many many months
Speaker 1: at this point, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But also it was very tasteful the way we do,
Speaker 1: you know this particular like he comes in the door
Speaker 1: and then it's craziness, but then we just fall out
Speaker 1: of frame, which is cute, I thought.
Speaker 2: And I think to land that next moment of the
Speaker 2: honesty of it, so that it didn't feel camp, you know.
Speaker 1: Definitely, No, I know, Alan Culture did a great job.
Speaker 1: I know he is a good director. We always loved him.
Speaker 1: He was one of my absolute favorites, which is why
Speaker 1: I had him on the Pond. All right, So that's Charlotte,
Speaker 1: and yes, so he confesses that he says he hadn't
Speaker 1: felt the sex drive since before they got engaged, which
Speaker 1: is interesting because you know, Charlotte was the one who
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to make him wait because I
Speaker 1: think this could be the one, which I think is
Speaker 1: such a misguided thing of waiting. Yeah, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I don't think it's misguided to wait a little bit, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I think that if you don't wait
Speaker 1: at all, it could Yes, tell.
Speaker 2: Us, Oh my god, the rules. Did you ever read
Speaker 2: the rook? I had a whole last year's situation? Last
Speaker 2: year we went. I I was a bridesmaid. I know,
Speaker 2: I know it. So I was a bridesmaid in my
Speaker 2: godsister's wedding and it was, you know, me, this transgirl
Speaker 2: living in LA And then the most wholesome, sort of
Speaker 2: you know, couple that had gotten married the early twenties,
Speaker 2: and all were on a boat for her bachelorette and
Speaker 2: there and I'm telling them I'm the only single one,
Speaker 2: you know, and they're all married off and most beautiful
Speaker 2: blondes you've ever seen, and they go, you need to
Speaker 2: read the rules. We've all got our husbands because.
Speaker 3: Of the rules.
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: And I'm going, well, I think Amazon it to the boat.
Speaker 2: I think I got a dinghy for five ninety nine extra.
Speaker 2: But I mean, and then it became my bible because
Speaker 2: I said, well, if it worked for them in Colorado,
Speaker 2: it's going to work for me a trans girl in
Speaker 2: the spotlight in La And it did not. But one
Speaker 2: of them was that you can't have sex until like
Speaker 2: the third or fourth date or something, and it's like,
Speaker 2: well that's hard, and then I'm And there was other
Speaker 2: ones though, where I obviously I think we both love
Speaker 2: to talk, but it was like, you can't ask a
Speaker 2: question before, like you, and then you can't call.
Speaker 1: Them first, you can't so many.
Speaker 2: You can't visit them if you're a long distance like
Speaker 2: And I lived by that for so long until I like,
Speaker 2: I forget what the turning point was. But there was
Speaker 2: one night where I was reading it and it was
Speaker 2: towards the end and I was like this and it
Speaker 2: because it was like it literally was how to take
Speaker 2: away all of your parts of yourself in order to
Speaker 2: be a good wife or a potential And then I
Speaker 2: was like, but then what happens when you actually get
Speaker 2: married and then they find out who you are? For sure,
Speaker 2: but maybe was it kind of Do you think Charlotte
Speaker 2: would have read the rules?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, No, Charlotte's got a bunch of books. I
Speaker 1: can't remember if I held the rules up. She's got
Speaker 1: a bunch of books. She's got the book about how
Speaker 1: you need to look at it like a corporate you know,
Speaker 1: job right, She's got to make cold calls and whatever,
Speaker 1: call her married friend's husbands and ask them to set
Speaker 1: her up on dates whatever. That was a weird one.
Speaker 2: And then you got set up with the married guy
Speaker 2: exactly the friend.
Speaker 1: Oh to me, Trey, But yeah, that was so wicky
Speaker 1: and Charlotte's like what, which I thought was funny. But
Speaker 1: I do think she had the Rules on her bookshelf
Speaker 1: at one point, like maybe first or second season, because
Speaker 1: I I mean, there was a time where you couldn't
Speaker 1: escape that book.
Speaker 2: It was everywhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also, do you think this idea of her saving herself
Speaker 2: for marriage? Did she obviously had had sex before?
Speaker 1: Clearly?
Speaker 2: And then did I think I remember that correctly? Yeah?
Speaker 2: But did do you think that she was like this
Speaker 2: is the one I want, so I'm going to do
Speaker 2: it differently?
Speaker 1: Definitely? Well, I think I think she she tried many things, right,
Speaker 1: like how you do when you have this goal but
Speaker 1: you don't know how to get to it, And so
Speaker 1: she tried many things, and she did, I think have
Speaker 1: in her head in general. You know, I've got to
Speaker 1: keep him like because she doesn't. They just make out
Speaker 1: for weeks, man, Yes, and I won't let him in
Speaker 1: the house or whatever. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: But do you think would it have it would have
Speaker 2: gone differently if she would have had sex with him?
Speaker 1: Well, I think it would have gone differently because I feel,
Speaker 1: I feel what do I know? Right? They are fictional
Speaker 1: characters fight.
Speaker 2: Just for a second.
Speaker 1: What would have happened? Was that? So he says in
Speaker 1: this scene, I haven't felt this sex strive since before
Speaker 1: we got engaged, right, So that means when they got
Speaker 1: engaged with Charlotte engineers, Yes, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like that was Charlotte's doing the timing of it, right,
Speaker 1: Maybe he was thinking it, but he's not gonna do
Speaker 1: it right then. And then he buys her the ring
Speaker 1: because she's pouting and blah blah blah blah. Right, so
Speaker 1: it was all kind of backwards in some alrighty, Yes,
Speaker 1: the nightmare the nightmare word, Yes, that that was. People
Speaker 1: just said that to us all the time for quite
Speaker 1: some time. I think what would have happened was they
Speaker 1: would have been free.
Speaker 2: To define their relationship exactly see.
Speaker 1: And they would have been free from whatever constraints shut
Speaker 1: him down, right, which has to do obviously with his
Speaker 1: mother and whatnot.
Speaker 2: And your pressure to.
Speaker 1: And my pressure on my timeline to get engaged and
Speaker 1: then you're in. I do think that's something that happens,
Speaker 1: and I hope it's less so now in twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if it is. You know, there
Speaker 1: you do go into a husband wife mentality of like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're doing the things that are expected of us, and
Speaker 1: that can feel very stifling, you know, for people. So
Speaker 1: I think if they if Charlotte hadn't made him wait
Speaker 1: and done all these things, then he would have been
Speaker 1: freer and maybe they could have found each other in
Speaker 1: a freer way, in a more complete way, and then
Speaker 1: hopefully things could have still gone along. I don't think
Speaker 1: that he's that kind of guy where he needs the pursuit,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. I don't feel like he's that.
Speaker 1: I feel like he's a good guy, but he does
Speaker 1: seem to have some kind of deep seated issues.
Speaker 2: Well, yea, those families do breed him that way, so sure.
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure, and not a not a family
Speaker 1: where you're talking about your feelings freely as Charlotte. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, Charlotte or no, not Bunny, not Bunny McDougal.
Speaker 1: She goes smoke and be mean. But Charlotte at one
Speaker 1: point earlier in the show says, you know, in my family,
Speaker 1: we don't talk about our feelings. We tennis, which was
Speaker 1: true in his family too, right, like that whole tennis. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1: so who knows, who knows what would have happened?
Speaker 2: Okay, we will never know.
Speaker 1: But I think what's great is whatever's gonna we're going
Speaker 1: to see in the fourth season, where apparently we have
Speaker 1: a lot of sex.
Speaker 2: I don't remember this, Well you're about to.
Speaker 1: I guess I am. I'm excited. I'm excited to see it.
Speaker 1: But I did really love how we how we leave
Speaker 1: it there with us just talking really honestly, which is
Speaker 1: really really nice. Okay, let's just ignore Samantha for a second,
Speaker 1: because we have talked about her for a while. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Miranda.
Speaker 2: It's so good it's really good.
Speaker 1: It's so good. And if you think about the whole
Speaker 1: trajectory of Miranda, including the films, and in just like
Speaker 1: that she's struggling with the fact that she's judgmental, it's
Speaker 1: so great and I love her so much.
Speaker 2: And the ft it's like triggered in the weirdest way
Speaker 2: of her ordering food yes and feeling judged yes.
Speaker 1: Because the girl laughs at her and knows her her order.
Speaker 1: And then she goes down there to confront this woman
Speaker 1: who's laughing at her and sees her laughing in the
Speaker 1: same way with someone else over nothing, and then she
Speaker 1: realizes that it's not about her, which is like so
Speaker 1: true to life.
Speaker 2: There's so many of those moments where you like, I
Speaker 2: think it's somebody. A lot of people say they're never
Speaker 2: thinking about you the way that you think they are.
Speaker 2: We're all so like individual that it's we're not thinking
Speaker 2: about other people that we're not.
Speaker 1: But of course you take it personally if you feel
Speaker 1: like someone at the time.
Speaker 2: And which Miranda, would you ever have those conversations in
Speaker 2: the shower with yourself where like you it's like all
Speaker 2: the things you would say to a person if you
Speaker 2: were And then those conversations never happen.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but that's what I love so much about
Speaker 1: Miranda and Carrie, Like when they do get in this
Speaker 1: fight in.
Speaker 2: This the first big one ever, it's the first.
Speaker 1: Well, there is one earlier on that's also about Big,
Speaker 1: where Carrie calls her from a phone booth in the rain,
Speaker 1: and then you think she might be calling me Big,
Speaker 1: But then she goes and she meets Miranda. Miranda's all
Speaker 1: wet and she's come to the coffee shop. That I
Speaker 1: think was the first fight. Yes, it wasn't as in
Speaker 1: depth as this fight.
Speaker 2: This fight to me, all of it on the table.
Speaker 1: It was so good and so risky, Like I never
Speaker 1: fight with my girlfriends.
Speaker 3: I'd be scared to death.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say never. Occasionally a fight will happen. The
Speaker 1: tension is like, I feel like it's very risky to
Speaker 1: say things like this to your girlfriends.
Speaker 2: Because that's your safe space.
Speaker 1: It's your safe space, and you might be blowing up
Speaker 1: your safe space because literally, Miranda says to carry, I
Speaker 1: do not want to hear about Big again, and I
Speaker 1: do not want you coming to cry on my shoulder,
Speaker 1: you know, And she's not wrong, right, But then in
Speaker 1: the end, of course she is wrong, because of course
Speaker 1: you're going to be there for your friend to cry
Speaker 1: and the shoulder, and if the friend has to go
Speaker 1: through that, the friend has to go through that.
Speaker 2: And I think that that was such a growing pain
Speaker 2: moment of like, because it then it leveled the playing
Speaker 2: field in a way, because I think they both got
Speaker 2: everything they needed to off their chest, not in the
Speaker 2: most productive way, but in a way that then their friendship.
Speaker 2: When you get through something like that, it only becomes richer.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And that's what is so incredible about them, because
Speaker 1: they're both so strong in their own ways. I mean,
Speaker 1: Miranda's kind of more openly strong and Judgie, but Carrie's
Speaker 1: very strong as well, right, and she stands right back
Speaker 1: up to her in the vintage shop. You know, that's
Speaker 1: the whole thing in the veneed shop. I had forgot.
Speaker 2: Stubborn all about it. Well, still, the girls can be stubborn.
Speaker 2: That's very true.
Speaker 1: That's very very true in their own ways. It's very
Speaker 1: very true, very very true. All right.
Speaker 2: So wait, oh, they run into the boyfriends.
Speaker 1: They run into the boyfriends. That was so crazy. I
Speaker 1: didn't remember that. I didn't even remember that. Steve and
Speaker 1: Aiden become friends. But it totally makes so much sense.
Speaker 1: They both have their dogs, they're both like regular guys, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, is Aidan simple? I don't think so. It
Speaker 1: kind of seems like you might be there.
Speaker 2: I think it's the delusion of the girls, because that's
Speaker 2: I feel like me and my girlfriends we operate out
Speaker 2: of delusion, and that that's why we've gotten where we
Speaker 2: are is because we're like, well, of course they're these
Speaker 2: guys are just having drinks, thinking about us and talking
Speaker 2: about us with other women.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And then but when those girls walk coming out or
Speaker 2: just wherever those women are, I know, and they it
Speaker 2: hits you and it's the most embarrassing thing, and you
Speaker 2: fall from this pedestal. And and then when they're you know,
Speaker 2: they're bumping. They don't know where to do with their.
Speaker 1: Bodies when they can't get out. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: But have you ever had any weird run ins with xes?
Speaker 1: Oh? L, I'm sure I have. I don't even know.
Speaker 1: Your questions are too good and scary scary, yes, scary
Speaker 1: you can tell by the deer in the headlights. I
Speaker 1: can't think right now. I mean, yeah, I I generally
Speaker 1: am relatively friendly with my exits.
Speaker 2: How about have you ever worn something that like you
Speaker 2: knew you were going to see your ex and so
Speaker 2: you're like, I'm going to look I'm going to look
Speaker 2: like this.
Speaker 1: Well for sure, I mean it's been a while. It's
Speaker 1: been a second, yes, since I've been concerned with any xes,
Speaker 1: Let's put it that way. They're like, I'm like kind
Speaker 1: of over it all, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Not yet, I'm concerned about are you exes? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Are you well?
Speaker 2: Because maybe one of them could still be up the
Speaker 2: one you know?
Speaker 1: Have you heard is it opal lighte? I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk to Taylor Swift song right now. Okay, she has
Speaker 1: this line. I love it so much. So at the
Speaker 1: beginning of you heard is it op light she says,
Speaker 1: I have this habit of living in the past. I
Speaker 1: think she says, thinking about my exes. My brother calls
Speaker 1: it eating from the trash.
Speaker 2: Honey, pull the trash can out because I'm I'm hungry interest.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you should do that though, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: can be a waste of time.
Speaker 2: And then I wrote down a quote. I'm going to
Speaker 2: a quote this episode and sad, I wish it was
Speaker 2: a Taylor swift lyric. But this one way the rear
Speaker 2: view mirror, the relationship appears closer than the relationship appears
Speaker 2: closer than it appears.
Speaker 1: Listen, I'm a master at this, and I just need
Speaker 1: to tell you, don't waste your time with this.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: If they're gone, they're gone for a reason. They're gonna
Speaker 1: come back. Don't let them. You need to be moving
Speaker 1: forward this take it from me. I've spent a lot
Speaker 1: of time waiting for it.
Speaker 2: In the way that Alabama guy taught me, he was like,
Speaker 2: you're a woman. I'm also now Kristin Davis has taught
Speaker 2: me that I don't need to go back to the battle.
Speaker 2: You don't let it go.
Speaker 1: They're going to come.
Speaker 2: But I will say, but the rear view mirror for Carrie,
Speaker 2: I think is really interesting because you start to romanticize it.
Speaker 2: Once the time goes on, you're like, wait, what was
Speaker 2: so bad? Right?
Speaker 1: But that's what I do love about Carrie, because Carrie
Speaker 1: in this is the episode where they go and have
Speaker 1: lunch at the boat house and fall in the pond,
Speaker 1: which was like a very big deal, and she wears
Speaker 1: that incredible. I think it's a Richard Tyler dress.
Speaker 2: Who it's almost that we think it's going to be
Speaker 2: the naked dress because of she's.
Speaker 1: But it's lunch, right, it's lunch, and it's and it's better.
Speaker 1: It's better. But I remember the stress about them falling
Speaker 1: in the pond and they had like hydrogen peroxide to
Speaker 1: like pour them because it's green. It's solid green in
Speaker 1: that pond. Like you don't want to go in that pond,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But it was such a
Speaker 1: great thing that they were like, yeah, we're going to
Speaker 1: do it. So they had we had like first daid
Speaker 1: there and everything, and then she cuts her foot in
Speaker 1: the pond. Yeah, she cut her foot in the pond.
Speaker 1: She had to go get a tetanis shot. And then
Speaker 1: this is another thing that I remember happening because I
Speaker 1: wasn't there that day, but I remember like there's a
Speaker 1: big rum. You're you're you're worried, like how's it going?
Speaker 1: And I think Sarah and I might have had our
Speaker 1: blackberries at that point, the original ones, like the tiny
Speaker 1: little ones. Yeah, and we text all day, you know,
Speaker 1: and I was like so worried, like how's it going,
Speaker 1: How's it going? And you know, how they fall they
Speaker 1: fall so beautifully in the water because he kind of
Speaker 1: comes in to kiss her and she's like ah, and
Speaker 1: then her physical comedy is so brilliant, you know. So
Speaker 1: she's like very gorgeously slow mogoes backward and her leg
Speaker 1: kicks up. Well, the paparazzi had been there and they
Speaker 1: took a bunch of pictures, and then later they reached
Speaker 1: out to her people and was like, well, we have
Speaker 1: pictures of Sir Jusica falling in the pond and she
Speaker 1: wasn't wearing underwear, and you need to pay us for
Speaker 1: these pictures. And was like, I was totally wearing underwear.
Speaker 1: What are they talking about?
Speaker 2: Like psychotic?
Speaker 1: I know, this is how it is. Okay, this is
Speaker 1: how it is. And I remember this stress and I
Speaker 1: was so stressed out, like yeah, what could those pictures be?
Speaker 1: And she was like, I was wearing underwear. Don't even worry.
Speaker 1: I'm not even worried about it. And I was like,
Speaker 1: you are stronger than me. But you know, they did
Speaker 1: they the pond in any way.
Speaker 2: No, it's huge, They're not important, there's nothing.
Speaker 1: No, they hadn't doused them with hydrogen peroxide like over
Speaker 1: their heads.
Speaker 2: I hope they got a good wrap gift for that.
Speaker 1: I don't think so back in the day, I can't
Speaker 1: think of what the rap gift was. I don't know
Speaker 1: been part.
Speaker 2: Of me, I think because I'm so optimistic and just
Speaker 2: want to do everything twice, I'd be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: get to fall like I'm one of the few people
Speaker 2: that get to falla in the pond.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do think they felt it was special. Okay,
Speaker 1: it was so We hate the word iconic because everyone
Speaker 1: used to use it back in the day and now
Speaker 1: people use it every other sentence or whatever. It was iconic.
Speaker 2: What was your most special thing that you said? I
Speaker 2: can't believe this is happening to me right now.
Speaker 1: My first thought was the tray wedding because it was
Speaker 1: so beautiful. Yeah, But the second thought was the wedding
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen in the movie because we're at the
Speaker 1: New York Public Library, Yes, and we filmed there for
Speaker 1: so long and it was so gorgeous.
Speaker 2: I did I recreated your when BIG's Coming after Carrie
Speaker 2: and I was in the little Black dress with it
Speaker 2: then't Yeah? Good that so, but that felt crazier at Lart,
Speaker 2: Like it felt.
Speaker 1: Crazy because it was so big and beautiful and and
Speaker 1: like we had a room in the in the public
Speaker 1: library that I have pictures of us where we would
Speaker 1: lounge between takes, you know, yes, and we'd hang up
Speaker 1: my dress because it was so big we had to
Speaker 1: steam it out all the time. And we'd be in
Speaker 1: robes like lounging with the tapestries behind us. Like it
Speaker 1: was so nuts that we were allowed to be there,
Speaker 1: you know. And that went on for a while too,
Speaker 1: write like at least a week, maybe more. I mean,
Speaker 1: so many different things have been so huge, going to Morocco,
Speaker 1: filming in Morocco, I mean I could go on. We
Speaker 1: filmed in the Sahara Desert on the camels.
Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't get much crazier than that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. And that was us at a little show
Speaker 1: about four women stomping around Manhattan, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: anything as possible, It's true. All right, back to the show.
Speaker 1: Let's go. Okay, So Carrie and Miranda running Steve and
Speaker 1: Aiden is really sad because then these really cute girls
Speaker 1: Jessica and Susan show up. And this is after Carrie
Speaker 1: and Miranda. No Carrie, yeah, Karrie Miranda have hidden in
Speaker 1: the hallway, thinking like they've got to run, they've got
Speaker 1: to hide. They're out there talking about us whatever they think.
Speaker 1: Of course the world revolves around them, but it doesn't
Speaker 1: because they're on dates, which is really funny, and those
Speaker 1: girls are cute, and then they're all like bumping into
Speaker 1: each other trying to get it's adorable, so adorable.
Speaker 2: I don't think they thought they were adorable.
Speaker 1: I'm sure they did.
Speaker 2: They did look really good for having run into their
Speaker 2: they did.
Speaker 1: But also the thing that kind of breaks my heart
Speaker 1: in that scene is Corbett. The sadness on Aiden's face.
Speaker 1: He basically doesn't basically speak like I think he says
Speaker 1: something like how are you Carrie, but literally there's just
Speaker 1: the sadness on his face is so powerful and well done.
Speaker 2: It's broken.
Speaker 1: Broken. He's not into that girl, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: And he probably like put up a fight with Steve
Speaker 2: to even do that.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: And yet of course that Carrie sweeps in and she's there, right.
Speaker 1: But I thought it was really good, and I think
Speaker 1: Corbett in general is really good. I'm hoping someday he'll
Speaker 1: come on here and talk to me. Come I know,
Speaker 1: But and Okay, so then this is the big scene.
Speaker 1: And I love the scene for so many reasons, and
Speaker 1: I think it was so so well written. And I
Speaker 1: think also, like if you think about the trajectory, trajectory
Speaker 1: is hard to say of Miranda and Carrie. It's a
Speaker 1: crazy powerful friendship and the writing is never better.
Speaker 2: No, that scene in the when they're trying stuff on.
Speaker 1: The vintage, it's that.
Speaker 2: It's almost as if they like clipped it from someone's life,
Speaker 2: and it's.
Speaker 1: So good and it happens like kind of a surprise,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like it's not like
Speaker 1: anyone's like trying to start a fight or whatever. It's
Speaker 1: just that Carrie confesses to her. First she says, she says,
Speaker 1: do you want to do something on Saturday? She says, no,
Speaker 1: I have to work. And then she's like, no, I
Speaker 1: feel bad that I just liked my friend. So she says, no,
Speaker 1: I don't have to work. I'm gonna go see Big
Speaker 1: and Miranda she's like, broke the camel's back, right, It's
Speaker 1: extreme her reaction, and then she's like, no, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be here for another round of this,
Speaker 1: Like it's so intense, and Carrie's like what, like, you
Speaker 1: know inside just like I can't believe she's saying this
Speaker 1: to me, and and so it's so good, it's so good.
Speaker 1: And so she says, wake up, Carrie, how many more
Speaker 1: times are you going to go through this? He is
Speaker 1: bad for you? Jesus, every time you get near him,
Speaker 1: you turn into this pathetic, needy, insecure victim. And the
Speaker 1: thing that pisces me off the most is that you
Speaker 1: you're more than willing to go right back for more.
Speaker 1: I will never say that's one of my friends.
Speaker 2: No, And I think, like it's it's interesting though, because
Speaker 2: that I think is a projection onto carry of Miranda's
Speaker 2: own issues, but like it's also the wording. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's basically the worst version of how to say everything
Speaker 2: of like you're really fragile. Okay, now I'm going to say,
Speaker 2: you always make yourself the victim.
Speaker 1: Because she doesn't take a moment. That's one thing about Miranda. Obviously,
Speaker 1: she's just from She doesn't take a moment to think
Speaker 1: about how could I say this more gently or lovingly? Right,
Speaker 1: she's just like and Carrie's like, you know cuts like
Speaker 1: you cut her? What I mean, she looks.
Speaker 2: So hurt and when it's your person that like even more.
Speaker 2: That's what I have a hard time believing that I
Speaker 2: will ever find some man that I love more than
Speaker 2: I love my best friend Lily. Yeah, but I think
Speaker 2: that's what's really unique about especially Miranda and Carrie, is
Speaker 2: that like that is such a sacred bond. And now
Speaker 2: what those words just did was it broke it well
Speaker 2: for a second, just but like I think it can
Speaker 2: feel at least in those moments of.
Speaker 1: When it feels very scary's dangerous.
Speaker 2: You don't know how you're going to come back, for.
Speaker 1: Sure, it's very dangerous. And that's why I think women
Speaker 1: friends don't fight like this that often, but also why
Speaker 1: I think it's so great to see them actually go
Speaker 1: through this. And also one of the last episodes that
Speaker 1: I've watched of and just like that, they have another
Speaker 1: fight and it's so great. It's after the birthday party,
Speaker 1: after Charlotte's birthday party in the kitchen. It's so great.
Speaker 1: And also at that point, Miranda's just talking about her
Speaker 1: flirting with the right and she doesn't see it coming
Speaker 1: in there. Carrie's like, why can't I you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not doing anything, what are you accusing me of you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, it's super interesting, super interesting, two
Speaker 1: different snaps. Yeah, but they also know, I think at
Speaker 1: that point, because they've been friends for so long, they
Speaker 1: know they're going to be fine. But it is still dangerous.
Speaker 1: It's dangerous because it's too much truth, you know, and
Speaker 1: so much history, right, and they've seen so much of
Speaker 1: what everyone has gone through. But I love this scene
Speaker 1: so much, and so they go and then Carrie goes
Speaker 1: right home and presses her you know, voicemail in the
Speaker 1: olden days type thing, and there's no message. And she
Speaker 1: thought by now, she says, I thought by now Miranda
Speaker 1: would have gotten home and left me a message. And
Speaker 1: then later on she goes and calls her, and Miranda
Speaker 1: was just about to call her, and they're on the
Speaker 1: same page again, which is so great and so satisfying
Speaker 1: and so important, so much more important than the men, really,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, totally. But she goes to
Speaker 1: this lunch with Big and then I didn't remember this
Speaker 1: at all, But she goes back to BIG's apartment and
Speaker 1: showers or.
Speaker 2: Whatever, yes, and looks Stunn it's fantastic.
Speaker 1: After the hair bounces back.
Speaker 2: Makeup in his cabinet for sure somebody left something, or
Speaker 2: maybe Natasha less him gone.
Speaker 1: And we find out Natasha's gone, and that Big has
Speaker 1: painted his wall red red, and that Carrie says basically
Speaker 1: like this red wall. It's a great idea, but we
Speaker 1: just don't really work, which is so sad, and obviously
Speaker 1: we know it's not true.
Speaker 2: But that's also fascinating because it's similar to Charlotte's moment
Speaker 2: of saying, did you actually want to marry me?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: That's it's Carrie's having her big season finale wake up call.
Speaker 1: It's so true and you really believe it. I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously we know what happens later, so we know that
Speaker 1: that's not the end. But in the moment watching it,
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I would have really believed this.
Speaker 1: As a fan watching this, it was very good.
Speaker 2: When he looked so good at the the Pond in
Speaker 2: that suit, it was like, look good at the suit.
Speaker 1: I thought he looked better. When he's back at Allay,
Speaker 1: his hair is all soft. I like it when his
Speaker 1: hair is all soft. I know, I know that's fine.
Speaker 1: So wait then Carrie goes, oh, it's one of those
Speaker 1: really beautiful shots of her writing too, Like I love
Speaker 1: how the filming her writing has evolved into just like
Speaker 1: different angles and fans and you know, atmospheric.
Speaker 2: They have to keep reinventing the wheels they do.
Speaker 1: But they do a great job. They do a great job,
Speaker 1: so she says, later that night, I got to think
Speaker 1: about men and women in relationships, or more to the point,
Speaker 1: how women feel men disappoint them in relationships. Than a radical,
Speaker 1: almost earth shattering thought popped into my head. What if
Speaker 1: everything isn't the men's fault after a certain age and
Speaker 1: a certain number of relationships, if it still isn't working
Speaker 1: and the excess seem to be moving on and we
Speaker 1: don't perhaps the problem isn't the last boyfriend or the
Speaker 1: one before him, or even the one before him. Could
Speaker 1: it be that the problem isn't them? But horror of horrors?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Us?
Speaker 2: Ah?
Speaker 1: I love it so much.
Speaker 2: But that is like the fact that that monologue took
Speaker 2: three seasons and many more years before that leading up
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 1: To It's true. It's true, but it's so good, and
Speaker 1: I just think it's important to remember, you know, it's
Speaker 1: important to remember right well, it's accountability. It is accountability.
Speaker 1: And also, like I do think it's very very easy
Speaker 1: to think like women, we do one thing and the
Speaker 1: men do another thing, and like this Alabama guy can
Speaker 1: atually prove you wrong, right, Like you have to keep
Speaker 1: your mind open or.
Speaker 2: Having your I think the fact that these women, especially
Speaker 2: at the diner, are constantly explaining for the other man's
Speaker 2: behaviors and why they're these women are in the right, yes,
Speaker 2: but you know, we only get so many of what
Speaker 2: did the woman do wrong?
Speaker 1: Where?
Speaker 2: Like I think that is Carrie's sort of like, oh,
Speaker 2: let's see what I've got going on here.
Speaker 1: So then we go to the kiss and makeup party
Speaker 1: on the rooftop. I didn't realize we called it that.
Speaker 1: I guess we call it a kiss and makeup party.
Speaker 1: And again, where's the scene in between of how we
Speaker 1: got to the kiss of making I'm super super interested
Speaker 1: and I again I'm sitting there obsessing over Trey, which
Speaker 1: is hysterical. But then I say that I'm not going
Speaker 1: to I believe right, Like poor Charlotte, Poor Charlotte, she
Speaker 1: needs some help. She needs a therapist. That's what Charlotte needs,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But she doesn't she doesn't
Speaker 1: get one. For some reason. We did leave out some
Speaker 1: of the all the carry with the roosters so insane.
Speaker 1: I just have to go back to it for a second.
Speaker 2: So she, have you ever had chickens or roosters.
Speaker 1: I have never, though I do have friends who do,
Speaker 1: and I have kind of want chicken.
Speaker 2: It's like you would like have them in your little backyard.
Speaker 1: Right, and I know people who do. Yet Okay, excuse me,
Speaker 1: but I did used to live in a canyon here
Speaker 1: that did have roosters that were like grandfathered in, and
Speaker 1: the roosters did wake me up because I would have
Speaker 1: I would fly home to get some sleep when we
Speaker 1: were working, when we were doing the show, because we
Speaker 1: were all night and we never slept right, and I
Speaker 1: would come home to my super quiet house up in
Speaker 1: the hills, and at five am, those roosters down at
Speaker 1: the bottom of the hill would start growing and I
Speaker 1: would wake up and I'd be.
Speaker 2: So mad, and so La was no longer the sleep city.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I'd go back to sleep, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they were. They wanted to get us up. I don't
Speaker 1: think they're there anymore, because I did. I lived there
Speaker 1: for like twenty years, and I think when they died out.
Speaker 1: I don't think they could get new ones, but I
Speaker 1: do have friends, and the stress is that you don't
Speaker 1: always know when they're chicks at their roosters or not right,
Speaker 1: so you're trying not to get roosters, and then you
Speaker 1: end up with roosters and then if you want eggs.
Speaker 2: You need a morning personal situation.
Speaker 1: You're not I am now because the kids and the
Speaker 1: time change hasn't helped, right, So we're gett when you
Speaker 1: come back down early. Yeah, yeah, but that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 1: I've become more of a morning person and it is
Speaker 1: nice and like you can get some stuff done in
Speaker 1: the morning. You feel productive, you do, you feel productive.
Speaker 1: So Samantha is in her new apartment in the meatpacking District,
Speaker 1: which I think we saw her in previously, because she
Speaker 1: gets sick and the light's coming in and she's trying
Speaker 1: to close the curtains into the curtains break and she
Speaker 1: wants someone to come help her. And she realizes this
Speaker 1: a couple episodes ago, that like all of her conquests
Speaker 1: or whatever are not necessarily going to show up for
Speaker 1: her when she's sick, which is kind of sad and heartbreaking.
Speaker 1: It made me feel really sad for Samantha that past episode.
Speaker 1: So she's she's in her fabulous apartment and we all
Speaker 1: go over to have drinks.
Speaker 2: I think, right, well, I think she'd had a altercation before. Wait.
Speaker 1: No, she has a guy at one point there and
Speaker 1: then she leaves literally like she goes crazy this model. Yes,
Speaker 1: she gets like.
Speaker 2: A obsessive water she dumps the water.
Speaker 1: Oh god. But let's back up. So Samantha is woken
Speaker 1: up by a group of trans women on the street.
Speaker 1: I'm reading my nose right now. Who says and says you,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, no, no, I can't even read these lines.
Speaker 2: Nope.
Speaker 1: So there's some craziness happening down on the street, okay,
Speaker 1: and they're loud, and probably there used to not be
Speaker 1: people living there, right, you know, because it was the
Speaker 1: meatpacking district, and the meatpacking district was like butchers and things,
Speaker 1: that's what it really was. So it was probably an
Speaker 1: area where if you were a sex worker you could
Speaker 1: go and no one would be.
Speaker 2: Bothered, and only your callers could from that, she says.
Speaker 1: Who have driven across the Holland Tunnel. It's right there
Speaker 1: and it's easy. You just drive right over the Holland
Speaker 1: tune and you're there in the meatpacking district, which is
Speaker 1: all very real and I'm sure probably did happen, but
Speaker 1: I don't know why why we needed to have it
Speaker 1: happen in our show or whatever, but we do have
Speaker 1: it happening in our show. And Samantha is she decides
Speaker 1: it's very interesting. She says, I'm going to test my
Speaker 1: PR skills and talk to them. So she goes out
Speaker 1: there in that gold trench coat.
Speaker 2: Oh to make nice kind of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then when she turns her back and walks away,
Speaker 1: she kind of rolls her eyes. It's interesting.
Speaker 2: I think she thought she could get what she wanted, yeah,
Speaker 2: because I think she well, and she is comparing them
Speaker 2: a lot to men in the episode, And actually, what
Speaker 2: it proves to me is that it's like interacting with
Speaker 2: trans people like you. You can't project some idea of
Speaker 2: what that. You have to let someone tell you who
Speaker 2: they are. And she thought she knew who those women
Speaker 2: were before it definitely did.
Speaker 1: She definitely did. So she goes down to basically make
Speaker 1: friends with them and to try to reason with them,
Speaker 1: and she says, it's my new apartment and I'm unfair
Speaker 1: and you guys are too loud, and she meets Destiny
Speaker 1: China and Joe, who are very nice to her yes
Speaker 1: and say like oh okay, you know they get it. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: quiet down. And then the next time we see her,
Speaker 1: she's having sex with some like literally like a fitness model, Like,
Speaker 1: my god, do we have no idea who he is,
Speaker 1: what he does, nothing, But they're trying to have sex
Speaker 1: and he's into it, but she's distracted by the women
Speaker 1: in the street and she decides she's like obsessive and
Speaker 1: weird at that point, so the guy gets like.
Speaker 2: What is wrong with triggered? Well, she you know, literally
Speaker 2: fills up a bucket and dumps it on them, which
Speaker 2: is such a TV moment, but it's also like it's
Speaker 2: funny because it's like it didn't matter who it was
Speaker 2: or what it was, but it was the thing prohibiting
Speaker 2: her from having sex. So orgasm, well, fair, right, and
Speaker 2: I guess that's the top of the list for her orgasm,
Speaker 2: so mean, you know.
Speaker 1: But I.
Speaker 2: Think that then it becomes this sort of cat and
Speaker 2: mouse game of you know, the egging of.
Speaker 1: Oh that's crazy. I didn't remember that at all. So
Speaker 1: then that's Destiny. So cut to she throws the water
Speaker 1: out and it takes someone's wig off. Must be Destiny's right, yes,
Speaker 1: And so then Destiny comes back and throws eggs in
Speaker 1: her window, and Samantha, really not the smartest move, opens
Speaker 1: the window. What was she thinking? And of course gets
Speaker 1: a big egg in the face, which she does deserve
Speaker 1: a good tea.
Speaker 2: You know what? I think that that was. That was
Speaker 2: for the entire community. The only time I'll speak on
Speaker 2: behalf of the entire community is the egg.
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, because she wasn't smart number one
Speaker 1: number two.
Speaker 2: And she deserves She said the teaseler many a time.
Speaker 2: I think she really does. Was that something that was
Speaker 2: like a word that was floating around?
Speaker 1: I think it was. I mean, it's hard to remember
Speaker 1: because I wasn't in that storyline, right, so I didn't
Speaker 1: like sit down and think it through, But I do remember.
Speaker 1: I feel like there was some kind of some kind
Speaker 1: of cultural awareness beginning. But it was like baby baby
Speaker 1: steps very much where some how it seemed okay to
Speaker 1: just be like the tranny, like casually just say it right.
Speaker 1: Like somehow tranny seemed more friendly than saying, you know.
Speaker 2: A transsexual transsexual, which would have been more mis gendering
Speaker 2: straight up, which is what that was a lot of that,
Speaker 2: and a lot of these like allusions to But I
Speaker 2: think that a lot of it was the writing. I
Speaker 2: could tell it was for the comedy they wanted, Oh yes,
Speaker 2: the jokes in the top, and I think during that
Speaker 2: time people were probably laughing at not with Do you
Speaker 2: think I think they were? I don't. I mean, I
Speaker 2: imagine people during that time watching it, maybe very you know,
Speaker 2: liberal people watching it and being concerned, but I can't
Speaker 2: imagine that level of show, with that big of an
Speaker 2: audience doing something that would upset like it didn't seem
Speaker 2: wildly upsetting at the time, I assume I don't.
Speaker 1: Think it seemed wildly upsetting because I don't remember being upset.
Speaker 1: I just thought it was so rod and over the
Speaker 1: top and now a shade obviously now, but even at
Speaker 1: the time, I just thought it was like one of
Speaker 1: those times where occasionally, and I think some of times,
Speaker 1: it's because the structure of the show, right is like
Speaker 1: you have a storyline, B, storyline, C storyline, D storyline right,
Speaker 1: and they can't all be serious, right, and they can't
Speaker 1: all be in depth because there's not time. Even though
Speaker 1: this episode is longer, then.
Speaker 2: We get a lot in it.
Speaker 1: There's thirty four yeah, thirty four minutes, whereas most of
Speaker 1: our episodes were twenty two, which is crazy because we
Speaker 1: get so much in there. But that was definitely the broadest.
Speaker 1: Like we've got Charlotte kind of having a very kind
Speaker 1: of real storyline, not funny at all. Carrie not funny
Speaker 1: at all other than I mean when she falls in
Speaker 1: the pond. I don't know if it's funny how, but
Speaker 1: it's like a lot obviously. And then I mean I
Speaker 1: think I laughed out loud. I think Big made me
Speaker 1: laugh out loud. Someone made me laugh out loud, which
Speaker 1: is pretty funny also at this time thirty years later.
Speaker 1: And then we also have I do think they try
Speaker 1: to make the meeting of the boyfriends in the street
Speaker 1: comedic by bucking into each other. But then we also
Speaker 1: have the argument. We have a lot of dramas wearing
Speaker 1: so many things, so I feel like the supposed to
Speaker 1: be the funny. Yeah, Now, to me, I don't ever
Speaker 1: think I thought it was funny, right. I don't never
Speaker 1: also think I had understanding of the deeper reasons that
Speaker 1: it was wrong. I don't think I had that either, right,
Speaker 1: But I think I was somewhere in the middle right
Speaker 1: at that point, right.
Speaker 2: And it was also not your storyline.
Speaker 1: Right, so I didn't have to But Delvin, do I think.
Speaker 2: The hope that I have is that anyone you know,
Speaker 2: rewatching it now does get that cringe of understanding of like, oh,
Speaker 2: this isn't landing the way that this show obviously intended.
Speaker 2: But I also think, like my general hope outside of
Speaker 2: this podcast everywhere is that even if I might not
Speaker 2: be someone's you know, cup of tea as a trans person,
Speaker 2: that they find a trans person in their lives that
Speaker 2: they can connect to over something other than identity. And
Speaker 2: I think that that's what's so important of just being
Speaker 2: able to say, oh, we should have done this different,
Speaker 2: or you know, obviously now we would want those characters
Speaker 2: to be played by trans women. In this last episode,
Speaker 2: we were just talking about how a black trans person
Speaker 2: talking about this would be very different, right, and important,
Speaker 2: And I think I think what just makes me so
Speaker 2: sad right now in this world is how closed minded
Speaker 2: we've gotten, and that there are people, very famous comedians
Speaker 2: still making those same jokes that they were in Second
Speaker 2: City twenty five years later, that are on Netflix and
Speaker 2: and so I just hope that we can move forward
Speaker 2: in the right direction. But my dad is like the
Speaker 2: sort of straightest, most macho football loving guy. But he
Speaker 2: does make four hundred cookies a week, very random fact wow,
Speaker 2: and cost them. No, he gives them out to people
Speaker 2: on the streets.
Speaker 1: That's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yes, But he was talking. He was talking to me
Speaker 2: one night about he was like, you've shown me One
Speaker 2: of the things that I talked to him about was
Speaker 2: like he was he was like, I'm just so scared
Speaker 2: that your life is going to be so hard. And
Speaker 2: I said, and he thought that when I was a
Speaker 2: gay kid even that my life is going to be
Speaker 2: so hard. And we've seen gay marriage come so far,
Speaker 2: and you know, just gay gay culture and has changed
Speaker 2: so much in the past twenty years. And I told him,
Speaker 2: I was like, my life in twenty years is going
Speaker 2: to be so much safer and richer and nuanced. This
Speaker 2: is the most nuanced episode that I can think of,
Speaker 2: at least for me. And I really really hope that
Speaker 2: we are looking forward to the future and trying to
Speaker 2: make the changes now.
Speaker 1: I agree. I mean, I think and that's the other
Speaker 1: thing I think about. I mean because like for me, certainly,
Speaker 1: I can't count all of the different trans people that
Speaker 1: I know. I know so many in so many different
Speaker 1: stages of their lives, which is amazing and so.
Speaker 2: But I'll just say having support from someone like you
Speaker 2: makes me feel like less of a problem in this
Speaker 2: world because I think, you know, I know who I
Speaker 2: am so well. But then when the especially the women
Speaker 2: that I've I've looked up to my whole life, say
Speaker 2: I see you for who you are, I stand by you,
Speaker 2: I support you, it makes me feel like I'm going
Speaker 2: to be okay.
Speaker 1: I'm glad. I mean, I wish that we could somehow,
Speaker 1: you know, blanket the world in that. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, because because we want everyone to.
Speaker 2: Be okay, but the but the world wants to make
Speaker 2: someone like you scared right now to support trans people them. Wow,
Speaker 2: I love you.
Speaker 1: Oh my, I'm not going to do that. No no,
Speaker 1: oh wow. This is like we're not going backwards. No no,
Speaker 1: And that's why I kind of want to keep making
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: So you have to find your way, yes, tell your
Speaker 2: story and it's messy at the beginning, oh my god,
Speaker 2: and the like if we're thinking about I've never compared
Speaker 2: my transition to and just like that. But like, you've
Speaker 2: got to find your footing. And a lot of people
Speaker 2: judged me at first, and even some of your viewers
Speaker 2: might be like, oh, isn't that that girl who'd X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z. But it's the awkwardness of finding life
Speaker 2: after you know you've lived for so long in one
Speaker 2: way and trying to rEFInd. It is awkward and messy,
Speaker 2: but in its earnest and that's what.
Speaker 1: And it might have moments of cringe.
Speaker 2: Yes, oh my god, I'm cringe dot com.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny to me the way that the
Speaker 1: world talks about cringe now, like that it's somehow avoidable. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's not avoidable.
Speaker 2: If you're living, and it's suppressing so many young people's
Speaker 2: desires through creativity. There's so many young people that would
Speaker 2: be making things right now, but they're nervous with their friends. Anything.
Speaker 1: You can't be nervous about that people. You guys go
Speaker 1: out there and do stuff.
Speaker 2: Post the video, write the song, fall on your face.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, right, yes, yes, I know.
Speaker 2: And you've got kids, so it's like you are trying
Speaker 2: to make sure they're walking through life. The way that
Speaker 2: you would want them to.
Speaker 1: It's true, and I mean they are, and because a
Speaker 1: lot of the kids people that I know are are
Speaker 1: young people who are trends. And then also now we
Speaker 1: have people who are finding the strength to come out
Speaker 1: and be their true selves now even later at life
Speaker 1: because the way the world is changing, even though it
Speaker 1: is this very herky jerky, We've got people moving forward.
Speaker 1: We've got people not moving forward, potentially going back. But
Speaker 1: you know what, we're not going to be with them,
Speaker 1: and hopefully we're going to help them at some point.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how, but you know what I'm saying, We're.
Speaker 2: Going to get there.
Speaker 1: We're going to get there because we're all moving forward.
Speaker 1: You know, I can't believe that. I do believe that,
Speaker 1: and I believe that partly because I know so many
Speaker 1: people that I cannot. I cannot allow them not to
Speaker 1: be whole and happy and safe.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: We have to, you know, do what we need to
Speaker 1: do to make that happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just sad that that is up for debate.
Speaker 1: It is, it is, it's it's it's shocking.
Speaker 2: But if it's any consolation to you, me being here
Speaker 2: and getting to meet you, today and seeing you on
Speaker 2: my wall every day when I wake up is like
Speaker 2: the greatest gift you could have ever given me.
Speaker 1: And you're a gift to me. You're a gift to
Speaker 1: me to be here, to be yourself. I've been following you.
Speaker 1: I've been so happy to see your success. It's so thrilling.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna get you on Broadway.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think you should take the Broadway ring.
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, you'll come, you'll come. Oh and if this
Speaker 2: comes out by the time, I'm going to be playing
Speaker 2: Anne Blin in six. I love Baway so much. It's
Speaker 2: really you haven't seen it, right, Okay.
Speaker 1: We're going to get you here in New York. I'm
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: It's eighty minutes. I love an I love An In
Speaker 2: and Out. Oh that kind of show. I think one
Speaker 2: act is all we need these days, by places to be,
Speaker 2: people to see. And I think I'll be the first
Speaker 2: trans person to to take on the show. And it's
Speaker 2: it's little things like that that I'm not an activist
Speaker 2: and I don't see myself, but that's the kind of
Speaker 2: advocacy that I'd like to do.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think this advocacy can take so many forms
Speaker 1: with the animals.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely love seeing you go to the I want
Speaker 2: to go there one day.
Speaker 1: You should go, so healing, so wonderful, so great, so great,
Speaker 1: so great. I haven't been in a little while. I
Speaker 1: miss it when I haven't been. Before the kids, I
Speaker 1: used to go like twice a year, which was wonderful.
Speaker 2: Have they gone yet? Have the kids gone?
Speaker 1: They haven't gone yet, partly because the time change a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot for the seven year old. But they're
Speaker 1: dying to go, and so I keep trying to figure
Speaker 1: out a way, like how you.
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying, it's going to happen.
Speaker 1: It'll happen for sure, because because they love it, and
Speaker 1: I have a lot of pictures up or you know
Speaker 1: the elephants, the baby who doesn't love a baby elephant?
Speaker 1: I know it's a great thing. Do you do you do?
Speaker 1: You travel a lot?
Speaker 2: I travel all the time, and I used to raise
Speaker 2: possums in my kitchen in West Hollywood. Well speaking, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean there's animals in this episode. I during the pandemic,
Speaker 2: I lost my job in the Book of Mormon the musical,
Speaker 2: and so I had time on my hands and I
Speaker 2: got onto kind of the underground possum rehabilitation circuit, which
Speaker 2: I can get you into if you're interested.
Speaker 1: No, no, I have a little dog. Okays a hunters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, possums fall in a pool, they
Speaker 2: got to call someone whenever this swoman's house raised pearl.
Speaker 2: But then you have to let them go unless they've
Speaker 2: either lost a tail or been they've hit their head
Speaker 2: really hard. So I had to let mine go into
Speaker 2: the wild.
Speaker 3: Did she go?
Speaker 2: She's she's out. Well, actually they only lived two to
Speaker 2: three years.
Speaker 1: Possums only lived two to three years.
Speaker 2: Yes cue when somebody loved me.
Speaker 1: Everything was beautiful.
Speaker 2: Pearl, lrip pearl.
Speaker 1: Oh pearl. But but she got to live a wildlife
Speaker 1: because of you. That's amazing, I know.
Speaker 2: And it was all started in a West Hollywood kitchen.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, I don't know anything about.
Speaker 2: The possum, but you and you're doing something similar for
Speaker 2: the elephants.
Speaker 1: I try, I try. I'm just to support for the
Speaker 1: real people doing it on the ground in Kenya. But
Speaker 1: I do love it. But advocacy can take many forms,
Speaker 1: and I think that sometimes just being present in the
Speaker 1: world is a form of advocacy.
Speaker 2: At this point in time, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: and find some money that you can connect to or
Speaker 2: follow that helps whatever version that you're looking for.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I for me, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of it is about creativity. I think it's about expansion,
Speaker 1: Like who expands my worldview? That's one of the things
Speaker 1: that I look for. You think, Yeah, who makes me think?
Speaker 1: Who makes me see things differently? You know who's doing
Speaker 1: something that I wish I.
Speaker 2: Could do, that can look up to?
Speaker 1: You know you guys, you Benny Merribeth, like the young
Speaker 1: people that I can find.
Speaker 2: We all need to do something togather one day.
Speaker 1: It would be amazing. But I mean just watching you
Speaker 1: guys succeed, Oh, it makes me so happy, makes I
Speaker 1: love you happy. I love you guys so much. And
Speaker 1: you're just out there paving the way. You know, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here doing it. We've had it
Speaker 1: since November and it came true.
Speaker 2: Wo