WEBVTT - Killer Thriller: What Makes An Ordinary Person Commit Murder? 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:07.840 Amy Robock and TJ. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.760 Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:19.400 Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and welcome back to Killer Thriller. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.520 In the second part of my conversation with actor David Lasher, 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.000 we are turning to another true crime film from his career, 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:32.040 and this case is even more unsettling. Twisted Desire is 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.400 based on the shocking nineteen ninety murders of James and 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:40.479 Kathy Wiseman in rural Virginia. Prosecutors said fourteen year old 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.879 Jessica Wiseman and her seventeen year old boyfriend Douglas Thomas 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.760 carefully planned the murders because Jessica's parents stood in the 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:53.600 way of their relationship. So what drew you to this 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.040 role or how did it come to you. 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.000 I might have been on hiatus from some show I 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.000 was doing, so I had that window where you can 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:08.120 go off and do a movie. And yeah, it wasn't 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:11.560 a huge role, but I think it was integral to 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:17.000 the story because this girl wants a relationship with me, 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.480 with my character so badly, and it's so devastated that 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.760 her father has ruined it that it sets in motion 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.399 what she ends up doing, and again she finds some 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.520 patsy of a guy to murder her father. And also 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.600 another similarity is Daniel Baldwin is a scary dude whoa 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.080 he yes, right, Like I remember being there being like 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:44.000 this guy is big and thick and his voice and 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:46.000 he's just a scary guy. 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:51.400 Yes, his whole demeanor is very intimidating for sure. I 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.640 mean I think that was probably intentional. Yeah, but it's 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:59.559 so to give the plot really quickly, a teenage girl 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.960 convinced this is an ex con who's in love with 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:05.840 her to kill her parents so they can be together. 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:08.320 But the real thing is she wants to be with 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:13.160 your character. So it's really about manipulation and it's twisted, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.840 and it's based on this real life nineteen ninety double 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.880 murder of James Baxter and Kathy Wiseman, committed by their 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:23.520 fourteen year old daughter and his seventeen year old her 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.280 seventeen year old boyfriend. But in the movie version of 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.120 the crime, the girl who plots her parents' murders is 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:34.120 almost eighteen, who's Melissa's character, and the shooter was a 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.440 few years older than that. But in reality, they were 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.519 fourteen and seventeen I mean, did you have a hard 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.160 time believing that the real people at the center of 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:45.600 the story, who are fourteen and seventeen? 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.399 Oh my gosh, I don't remember. I don't remember knowing that. 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:51.040 Oh my gosh. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:52.480 Off the ages. 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:58.520 Yeah, so they made Melissa eighteen or almost eighteen, and 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:05.680 then the x con boyfriend love interest was probably like twenty. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.320 He was out of high school in the movie. 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.440 Right, yeah, that was clear. He was working at a gas. 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:16.000 Station, right whe Yeah, yeah, I mean fourteen to seventeen. 0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.520 My I mean Scarlett is fourteen. I can't wait. When 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:19.400 I think about this. 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.760 I'm like, what, Oh my god. Yeah, I mean there's 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.120 a fourteen year old doesn't even know. They have no 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.760 way to make, they have no idea what they're doing, right, 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.120 there's no justification for what that kid did. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.080 No, No, I mean I think that or do you 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:45.520 think that we underestimate how powerful teenagers feelings can be 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.720 and their relationships. You know, there's so much drama. I 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:51.640 know that, As I said, my daughter's fourteen, so there's 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:54.600 a lot of drama in our house right now. But 0:03:55.120 --> 0:04:01.040 going from that to actually this, I mean, it's kind 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:01.880 of unimaginable. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.360 I mean, the other famous story that I think of 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.680 is the Menendez brothers, who were you know, even recently 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:15.320 claiming that they were physically abused and in danger of 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:21.960 their parents and claiming it was self defense. But I 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:24.239 don't know, what do you think. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.800 Because in this case, I didn't from everything that I've read, 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.239 it isn't you know. She wasn't even claiming that her 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:37.479 parents were abusive. It was just simply I want to 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.919 be with this person, and they don't like him, like 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.200 or they don't approve of him. So because this is 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:46.840 the way. At first, it seems like, you know, it's 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.080 about one thing, but really it's that this girl is 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:52.960 manipulative because they were just overprotective, right. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.279 Well, the way I think they set it up is 0:04:55.279 --> 0:05:00.200 that the father is very overprotective. Like changing clothes, she 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.560 asked her, can I go study where? You know? What 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.400 are you studying for? What task? What class? What period 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:10.920 are you studying? You know? And then yeah, you know, 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.159 the mother is just like, don't talk to your father 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:17.000 that way. The mother is just like, you know, let 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.120 the dad do whatever he wants. Don't protect the daughter 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.479 at all. There's no excuse for what she did, obviously, 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:29.360 but it was definitely a very overbearing you know dad 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:30.680 right in. 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.559 The So unlike in the in the film where both 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:39.360 of the parents are shot in their bed, in real life, 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.599 Jessica's mother survived the first gun shot long enough to 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.680 try to reach her daughter's bedroom, and then she was 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.359 shot again. And just reading details like that is just 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:56.200 it's heartbreaking. That's an egregious I mean, that's, without a doubt, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:57.320 first degree murder. 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.320 Did the girl tell him to kill my mom too? 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:06.120 Yeah? Yeah, she said, both of them, both of them. 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.800 I mean, I hope she I hope she's still in jail. 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.880 So she was Jessica. This is one of the most 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.839 astonishing parts of this whole case is what happened afterwards. 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:23.960 So Jessica was fourteen and she remained in the juvenile system. Douglas, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.760 the boyfriend, was seventeen and tried as an adult. He 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.600 was sentenced to death and eventually executed. I mean, does 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.800 that surprise you. I can tell by the espression on 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:35.720 your face that it does. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:40.240 I mean, you don't hear about a lot of executions, 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.360 especially of a seventeen year old. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.880 Oh my god, I was pretty struck by that too. 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:47.760 What was her sentence? 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:56.560 She was released let's see, so at the time, Virginia 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:58.920 law did not permit her to be tried as an 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:03.480 adult at fourteen, so she was educated delinquent in juvenile 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:08.280 court and was committed to a juvenile correctional facility until 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:13.360 her twenty first birthday in ninety seven, and she was released. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:15.960 Why don't she turned twenty one? 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:19.560 Wow? Twenty one? She was released? So Dick, didn't she 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:24.520 do what she did? What Donna did, conspired to murder 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.120 her dad instead of her husband. Donna got forty years 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.160 and she whatever, she got twenty seven. Yeah, and this 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:34.720 girl got out at twenty one. 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.520 She served seven and she's like the mastermind of the whole. 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.400 I don't understand that, as justice. 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:48.320 And Donna's life was legitimately in danger, this girl just 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.040 couldn't have the boyfriend she wanted. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:55.440 Her dad was annoying, just right exactly, I want this 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.200 boyfriend and my dad's annoying. I don't. I don't understand 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:05.200 that at all. So, I mean, this is one of 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.960 the questions, right of this difficult question of the person 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.120 who plans the murder just as responsible as the person 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:17.440 who actually commits it. And these both these cases and 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:23.200 movies sort of take the opposite end of that confusing. 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.480 Yeah, I disagree with that. I think the person that 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.440 pulls the trigger is the murderer, and that is a 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:37.800 bigger crime than paying someone to do it. I mean, right, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:43.360 conspiracy to commit murder is you know, a serious things, 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:49.040 but it means that person didn't have That person is 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.000 not a killer and not a cold blooded killer. Like 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.480 Donna said, I could never have pulled that trigger. 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:59.520 And I appreciated in this movie how they show his character. 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:01.640 He said, I don't know if I can do this. 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.160 You know, he does have those doubts, and then she says, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.600 what you have to so we can be together. So 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:14.440 they really also don't shy away from the twisted, diabolical 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.680 nature of this girl that even when you know the 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:23.840 shooters having second thoughts, like maybe this isn't the greatest idea, 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:26.760 and she's like, no, you have to do it. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.840 Yeah, well then I don't know. What do you think 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.000 the person that conspires it and puts it together just 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:33.680 as bad. 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.240 No, I think I agree with you. I think when 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.679 push comes to shove in the moment, you have a 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:46.640 choice to do it or not, And particularly in this 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.560 kind of a situation where there's no immediate threat, right, 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.400 It's not like somebody is immediately going to hurt you. 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.840 But I think it is a particular sort of twisted 0:09:57.160 --> 0:10:03.559 manipulation and manipulative personality that could do this to another person. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.800 So I don't know. Maybe I'm contradicting myself now because 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:11.199 I'm thinking it's still it's still pretty bad what she did. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.200 But I but I agree with you actually committing the murder. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:16.680 That's that's worse. It's worse, all. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:22.000 Right when you're thinking of the punishment, isn't it about 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.440 like how long does society think it will take for 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.680 this person to rehabilitate and not act like this again? 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:29.559 Right? 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:30.160 Right? 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.800 Right, that's supposed to be what the serving of the 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:34.960 time is, right. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.480 I don't know. I think they're both like this young 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:41.440 girl when they let her out of prison. I mean, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.760 obviously she didn't do this again, but you'd think, like, 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:46.520 what if someone else gets in her way? 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:51.280 What right is this going to be her problem solving 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.120 tactic for everything? 0:10:53.720 --> 0:10:57.120 You know, Oh, I'll just flirt with some idiot and 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:57.960 have him kill it. 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:11.760 Yeah. 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.400 So Melissa, she was she was like America's sweetheart at 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.880 the time of this movie. I mean, were you surprised 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:21.520 that she took such a dark role. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.440 I think I understand why. Right, she was coming off 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.720 of Oh she was Clarissa, Clarissa, she hitne Clarissa explains 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:35.200 it all. And I think she wanted to not be 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:41.280 that little Nickelodeon tween kind of actress. She wanted to 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.560 be do something dramatic. So she's like, let me be 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:49.800 a sick you know, twisted, you know, murdering mastermind right right, 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.720 it made sense. I think it was a good choice 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.200 for her. I think Paula produced it, probably helped choose 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.480 the movie, and they did a good job with it. 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.520 Yeah, I mean I think. And then I feel like 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:07.040 Sabrina started probably right after that. Yeah, you're right, So 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.400 I know it was over thirty years ago. But what 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.760 do you remember the most about making the film. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.240 I remember just having a really good time. Melissa and 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:22.240 I got along so well. She was awesome. Charleston was 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.560 so much fun. Have you ever filmed there? 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.400 Yeah? I haven't filmed there, but I've been to a 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:28.080 wedding there which was pretty fun. 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:34.000 Great city, and I mean I remember the Jeremy Jordan 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.360 that that actor was very eccentric. 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.520 Oh really, No, but I thought he was quite good. 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.679 And then I didn't even realize that he was like 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.880 a pop star or something. Yes, a singer. 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.560 Yeah, he was a pop star before this movie. And 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.040 I thought he did a great job. 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:54.600 I did too, So like his. 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:59.200 Choices I remember were so like not what you'd expect. Yes, 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.360 it was very thoughtful, but he was. He was a 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:10.160 unique dude, really, and I think Melissa just couldn't figure. 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.400 Him out, right, She was like where's David. 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.800 Yeah. I remember her coming to me being like, what's 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:17.120 with this guy? 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.640 Oh my god? Maybe he was method, you know, maybe 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:29.600 he was like getting deeply into his character. I was 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.040 very impressed with his work too. 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.760 Yeah, he ended up doing a great job, right. I 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:39.120 remember seeing the movie being like no way, oh like surprise. Yeah, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.439 I was surprised. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:47.040 Oh man. So getting back to this idea of do 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:52.880 we underestimate how powerful teenage relationships can become when the 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:56.040 brain isn't fully formed yet and the emotions are big 0:13:56.080 --> 0:14:00.160 and all of that. So I mean, did it did 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.880 it ever cross your mind like that could this happen 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:06.760 in my family? Like now as an adult, do you 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:07.599 think about that? Is that? 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.839 Ah? My god? Well I do have a sixteen year 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:19.680 old daughter. That's pretty strong willed and defiant, right, I mean, 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:25.600 so is I. But no, I never think of that obviously, 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:30.640 But I do think of like that line as a 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.440 parent where you have to not really care if they 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:38.720 like you or they're offended by your choices for them. 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:43.040 You're their parent, not their friend. And I, you know, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:48.280 I fall. My default is like, don't upset anybody. You know, 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:50.960 she wants to go to this party where there's no adults. 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.440 Why are we going to stop her? All her friends 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:58.840 are going, and Jill's like be her father, Like there's 0:14:58.920 --> 0:14:59.640 boys there. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.800 We just we are in the midst. I mean, Scarlett 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.160 is home today. She's supposed to be at surf camp, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.280 but she wasn't feeling well, so she's home. I have 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.280 to I'm gonna have to whisper now. But we were 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.120 literally just having this conversation over the weekend, Charlie and 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:18.840 I I'm like, uh, okay, so were She's telling me, 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:20.640 you know, none of my friends like you. They think 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.000 you're mean. And I have to swallow my feeling of 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.240 like I want everybody to like me. Aren't I cool? 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.840 You know, to like I don't care if they like me? 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.600 I don't care if they like me and also don't 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.240 speak to me that way. That's very disrespectful, you know. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.680 But it's like it's hard, it's but I agree with 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.760 you. You can't be You're not their friend. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:48.440 And teenagers are so they're so sensitive and they know 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.920 exactly what your sore spots are and how to get 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.840 to you. She knows that you want to be liked, 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.800 yes and yes, and they're and their emotions are you know, 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:05.080 everything is so heavy, like everything, Like I say to 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.240 Chelsea all the time, in five years you're being in college, 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:10.600 You're not even going to remember any of this, right, 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.040 these things that you think are the the end of 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.560 the world, right, like, none of this is going to matter. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.920 Right, the hormones, the hormones. No, they can't see it. 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:25.000 And then how about when the dad he was he's, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:30.920 as we said, a very intimidating presence. He goes to 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.840 the party to pick her up. I remember my mom 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:40.480 going into a nightclub when I was seventeen and taking 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.360 me out, and I now, if it was my dad, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:46.480 I would have had a different reaction. But my mom, 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.040 I was like, what are you doing here? How dare 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.880 you come in here? After me, you know. Meanwhile, she's like, 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.960 you said that I did, And I stormed out in 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.600 front of her and went to my car. And then 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.000 she said, now, oh, I was so afraid you weren't 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:03.560 going to drive home, that you were just going to 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.040 like drive away and never come back. And meanwhile I 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.280 was sweating it, like I am in so much trouble. 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:15.920 Good, there needs to be still that level of like respect. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.639 This is my family. These are the only people that 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:20.600 love me, like and care about me. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.919 Right. That was not the response of Melissa's character in 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.439 this movie. She was like, Okay, I guess I have 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.560 to kill Dad if he since he's come into this. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:36.560 Oh, I'll tell you like this this scary. Scariest people 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.600 in the world are like mentally unstable adolescents. 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:44.160 Yes, right, like, yes, I was. 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.560 Held up one time at gunpoint in New York on 0:17:46.640 --> 0:17:50.680 sixth Avenue way really with my buddy Doug Ellen. Yeah. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.960 We we were walking back to his parents' apartment sixth 0:17:55.000 --> 0:18:00.119 then what fifty seventh, outside of Stelly, right, And it 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:01.680 was must have been one in the morning. We're coming 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:03.160 home at the end of the night, and these three 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.159 kids came up to us held a gun. One of 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.600 them held a gun right in my stomach, and all 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.000 I kept thinking was, this is a child. He won't 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:17.000 even know what he's doing, right, right, Like if you're 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:19.879 held up by a thirty year old. This guy knows 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:24.679 he's the consequences, but like a sixteen year old kid 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.520 has no freaking clue what they're doing. They'll look, they'll 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.640 regret it when they're thirty, but meanwhile you're dead. Yes, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:38.199 so I find like, yeah, mentally unstable young you know, 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.119 adolescents are really scary and dangerous. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.399 I think you are exactly right. It is that the 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.399 literally their brains are not fully formed, so they can't 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:53.600 fully understand consequences and you know, and that desire to 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:55.399 have what you want when you want it. 0:18:57.240 --> 0:18:59.920 Yeah, I mean, look, but this's his character. You know, 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:04.680 could have used a good therapist and maybe a psychiatrist 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.800 and some impulse control medication. Correct. 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.879 Did working on two movies like this that you know, 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.879 based on real murder cases so early in your career 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.760 have any kind of particular impact on you. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.679 No, For me, it was kind of about the work 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.240 and you know, just getting to act in front of 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:44.480 the camera and connecting with the different cast members, pleasing 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.959 the director. I wasn't. I didn't really, but you know what, 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:51.000 I did a lot of these. When after the Donna 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:56.199 Yaclick movie ended, Prime Video automatically pulls up Violation of 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.640 Trust starring me and Katie Segal and Charlie the Ross 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.200 about another freaking true crime, crazy story. 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.440 Oh well, guess what You're coming back, David, and we're 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:08.720 going to talk about that too. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:13.239 And Jill's like, why is Prime Video bringing this up 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.080 as your next thing to watch? Is it like finding 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.160 the algorithm David Lasher and real life murders? 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.360 Listen, just ask Charlie what our algorithm is. Now everything 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.119 our Netflix account is under his name and everything that 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.560 comes up is murder related and trying. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:34.800 He's like, oh my god, oh god, you must see 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.400 the craziest stories. 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.960 Oh boy, oh boy, I sure do. Was making either 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:44.840 of these films Cries on Herd or Twist to Desire 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.560 emotionally heavier than the other, was one more difficult. 0:20:49.240 --> 0:20:55.120 Yeah, the Donnie Yaklick one. I just I remember, even 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.080 though it was so long ago, I do remember walking 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.159 alone around this prison with my headphones on, listening to 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.800 sad music, thinking about I even remember the moments in 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.560 my life. I was thinking about to try and go 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.080 back in there and have that last scene with her 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:18.080 where where I have to cry. I mean, legitimately, he 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.040 should be crying. I mean he's telling his mom like 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:25.080 it's okay, you left me with no one and I understood, 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:30.359 I still love you, and I remember it being very 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:32.479 heavy and sad. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.040 Yeah, I can believe that. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.880 It's a much sadder story. I mean the cries unheard 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:46.160 is kind of sensationalists, like just a crazy teenager. Really 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.520 nothing more than that, like tragedy. 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:50.960 The twisted desire, right, yeah, I'm sorry. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:56.200 Twisted twisted desire was just more like you know, it 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:03.600 seemed like an entertaining story where I didn't feel so 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.960 sad for the character I was working with. Yeah, like 0:22:08.119 --> 0:22:11.639 Jacqueline Smith and that character and what she did to 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:17.000 her husband and to her son was so sad, right, Like, you. 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:21.520 Don't feel any there's no kind of redemption or sense 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.960 of justice in the end because you kind of you 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:29.280 don't want her husband to be alive. I mean, this 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.680 is a horrible man. But then you also don't want 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:33.040 her to. 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.960 Say they killed him. I was like, go check, make 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:37.600 sure he's dead. I was sure he was going to 0:22:37.640 --> 0:22:38.680 get up and be like. 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.280 You right, right, But so she says that in the 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:46.600 things in the some of the video that I watched 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.480 of her, of the real Donna speaking later, and the. 0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:54.840 Transcripts that I've read where she says, I was, you know, 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.000 I was waiting for him to get up when he 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.520 was in the driveway. I just kept thinking, he's going 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.240 to get up, and he's going to come after me. 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.399 That's what jud and I thought watching it, like is 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.440 he dead? Like make sure he's dead? Is that scary? 0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:13.520 I mean, yeah, I mean that guy deserved to die 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:15.120 because he was going to kill her, right. 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:18.560 But it's interesting the son, Denny, who you play, he 0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:22.640 did in real life support his mom much like it's 0:23:22.680 --> 0:23:26.760 reflected in the movie. But then there's another apparently there's 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:31.600 another daughter, not the Hillary Swank character, another daughter who 0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.040 has a whole different story and is like, the mom 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.600 made it up and my dad was a perfect man, 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:42.199 and but you know, these are always yes. And I 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:49.240 just don't personally think it is feasible nor possible for 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:54.080 a woman to make up all of this abuse to 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.359 such a degree, Like it's just it's crazy. This is 0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:58.760 like a kid who just didn't see it or doesn't 0:23:58.760 --> 0:24:01.200 want to believe there could be a bad man. 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.920 Well, Hilary Swank's character lived in the house with them 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.880 and testified for Donna that this was true. And Donna's 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:13.960 sister also was a wakener saw the whole thing. I mean, 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:16.800 I don't think it's possible that she made all this up. 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:23.080 No, no, neither do I. Okay, let's go for one second, 0:24:23.119 --> 0:24:27.520 go back to the twisted Desire that Melissa joh Hart movie. 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.400 Than that case, do you think that it is ultimately 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:38.280 about love, obsession, manipulation, or something else entirely? What do 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:39.119 you think that's about? 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:45.280 I think twisted desire. If it's about anything, it's about 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:50.399 adolescent mental health. I mean, this girl, for her to 0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:54.119 be able to do this with no conscience, I'm not 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:56.600 you know, I'm not a psychiatrist. And you can use 0:24:56.600 --> 0:25:01.639 the word sociopath or some sort of diagnosis, but you 0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.000 know she was a sick kid. 0:25:04.680 --> 0:25:06.480 This is a great answer. 0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:10.840 And triggered by a father that you know pushed her 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:15.760 too far. But you know, to kill both their parents 0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:18.880 or have them both killed, and manipulate this guy into 0:25:18.920 --> 0:25:23.239