WEBVTT - TechStuff Plays with the Commodore 64 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.960 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:08.840 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:18.200 tech Stuff from how stuff dot com. Hello, welcome to 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:20.319 tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and I am 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.360 an editor at how stuff works dot com. Sitting across 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.720 from me as always senior writer Jonathan Strickland. If you 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:28.640 really want to hear about it, the first thing you'll 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:30.479 probably want to know is where I was born and 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.440 what my lousy childhood was like, and how my parents 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.239 were occupied and all before they had me and all 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:38.720 that David Copperfield kind of crap. But I don't feel 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.360 like going into it if you want to know the truth, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.400 good because we didn't want Oh that was a quote. Yes, 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:47.159 that that does not that was not mine. That was 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.320 a quote. Um, yeah, it's a quote. And here's a 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.080 hard thing to believe. It's a quote from a book 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.080 I have never read, and it is a classic. But 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:58.600 I was never it was never part of my curriculum 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:01.200 growing up, and so one of these days I'm gonna 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.480 have to fix that. Anyway, So today we're going to 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.040 talk about an interesting piece of technology that was very 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:11.120 influential early on in the era of personal computers. That's 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.720 the truth. And UM, of course we've we've talked on 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:19.440 its sibling later or earlier earlier, earlier in our podcast history, 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.720 UM and Jonathan really wanted to get into a bit 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.479 of the history of the company today. So well, we'll 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.240 talk about the history of this particular machine, but uh 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.080 sort of in a the greater context of the company itself. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:35.880 And it starts with a guy who was born in Europe, Yeah, 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:40.399 Polish immigrant named Jack Tramiel. Uh. He actually had a 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.080 very very traumatic early experience because he was he was 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.080 one of the uh Jews who were rounded up by 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:53.080 Germany and put into a concentration camp. Um. Now, fortunately 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.720 he survived that ordeal. Eventually moved to North America, originally 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:01.320 New York City, became part of the U. S. Army, 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:06.080 and actually began to learn how to repair typewriters. What 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:11.559 typewriter He was loving that, Okay, kids, back in the day, 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:16.000 typewriters were these devices that would print directly to paper. UM. 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.480 So yeah, it was he was a typewriter repairman and 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:24.000 uh he started to he found an opportunity to create 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:29.040 a company h in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And so he 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.480 moved to Toronto, and in nineteen fifty four he founded 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:39.160 a company called the Commodore Portable Typewriter Company. And Uh, 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.320 just so you know, I've got some other interesting things 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.880 that happened in nineteen fifty four, just to give context 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:47.120 to what else is going on in the world. I 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:48.880 just thought this would be kind of cool. I I 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:51.240 kind of want to do this from here on out 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.360 to kind of give context to historical events happened. So 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.640 in nineteen fifty four, that was also the year the 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:02.880 first nuclear powered submarine was unveiled. That was the USS Nautilus. 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:08.880 That the hydrogen bomb was tested at Bikini Atoll, which 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.760 just makes me think of Beanie and Cecil because they 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:17.200 had the island no Bikini at all. And then, uh, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.560 there's a According to True Knowledge, which is an artificial 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:25.760 intelligence program created by William Tunstulpedo. April eleventh, nineteen fifty four, 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.800 was officially the most boring day in the twentieth century 0:03:29.440 --> 0:03:34.160 because nothing of any real consequence happened that day. Uh. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.520 Brown versus Board of Education happened in nineteen fifty four 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.880 that ended segregation in public schools in the United States. 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.160 The first issue ever of Sports Illustrated Magazine published that 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.640 year Laura the Flies published that year. Actually, now that 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.080 I think about it, I should have used that as 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:54.200 the quote for the beginning of this podcast. Uh. Texas 0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:57.760 Instruments announced the development of the first transistor radio in 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.720 nineteen fifty four, and Texas Instruments is going to play 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.920 a part in this discussion as well. And one of 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.920 the most pivotal events in nineteen fifty four, the very 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:15.800 first gud Zella movie premieres. So Uh. In nineteen fifty five, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:22.799 the company officially incorporates and becomes Commodore Business Machines, Incorporated. Uh. Sorry, 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.440 you were going to say, no, I was going to 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.280 add that the the Commodore history that I've pulled up 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.760 UM suggests that part of the reason that that Jack 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:37.080 Tremille decided to get into business manufacturing his own equipment 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.320 was because, um, the the machines, the typewriters that were 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:46.200 coming in from overseas were much more inexpensive, and uh, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.599 you know, his his repair business was sort of he 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:50.320 realized that he wasn't going to have much of a 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.000 future in that, so he decided to get in on 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.920 on his own thing. Yeah, which was a smart deal 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:57.680 for him. It worked out, Yeah, it worked out. In 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.280 nineteen sixty two, the company was listed in New York 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:04.159 Stock Exchange as Commodore International Limited. Uh. And then in 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.800 the nineties seventies, Commodore began the transition to get into 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:13.040 the business of manufacturing calculators, including scientific calculators. And they 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:14.720 were I think, like we've talked about some people who 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.240 have manufactured calculators. Yeah, yeah, well they met with early success. 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.760 But then Texas Instruments got into the game. And of 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:27.120 course their thing was creating affordable calculators for for consumers. 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.159 Plus they had to compete with Hewlett Packard of course 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.400 they were they were looking more at high end business machines. 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:39.000 So Texas Instruments starts to hone in on this calculator business, 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:44.000 and that's when the by the mid seventies, mid to 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:48.000 late seventies, that's when the the concept of the personal 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:51.080 computer as we consider them today, that's when it's really 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.240 started to take hold. And so Tramuel thought, this is 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.680 really where it's at. We should get into this because 0:05:56.680 --> 0:05:59.320 the calculator business is starting to get a little too crowded, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.080 and they hired an engineer by the name of Chuck Pedal, 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:11.120 who actually joined a division of Commodore called MS Technology Incorporated. 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:16.800 So this is a subsidiary essentially a Commodore and MS 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:22.160 Technology is the company that created well, they manufactured semiconductors. Yes, 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:27.640 and he Pedal created a processor chip which was sort 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.360 of similar to a chip that Motorola had made previously, 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.520 but it was called the six five zero X series. 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.839 So six zero two being one of the most famous 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.400 and six five one zero being another. And we'll talk 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.640 about those in a little bit as famous as you 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.360 know chips get yeah, yeah, or at least gotten those days, right, 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.720 So these are processors that were very, very influential early on. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:59.279 So nineteen seventies six, Commodore International Limited relocates to west Chester, Pennsylvania, 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.560 a place I'm actually really familiar with. I've been to 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:08.080 Westchester many many times. In nineteen seventy seven, Commodore then 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:14.800 unveiled the Personal Electronic Transactor or PET, the Commodore PET. Yeah, 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.080 the Commodore PET was one of the well, that was 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.760 the first computer the Commodore created, and they unveiled it 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:25.080 at in nineteen seventy seven at CS in Chicago. Yeah, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.720 if you listen, to our CES podcast. You remember we 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.880 talked about how you know, they experiment with different cities, 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.640 including Chicago for a while. Well, the PET was really 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.720 popular in education in schools, but it wasn't a It 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.400 wasn't a success in the home market at all. Had 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:45.840 a very industrial looks made out of metal, and it 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.400 was pretty expensive, but it did feature the MS six 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:54.480 five zero two processor. Now, in nineteen eighty, Commodore announced 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.440 the VIC twenty and I remember the VIC twenty very well. Yeah, 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.600 it actually went on saye in one and originally the 0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:07.880 sales price was two dollars, which was incredible. I mean, 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.920 it was undercutting all the other personal computers that were 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.040 on the market at the time. By the way, in 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:17.200 today's dollars, that's about seven hundred and eight bucks. So 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.920 this was the first PC to sell over a million units. 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.280 It was the first really popular home PC. Yeah. Now, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.240 the the VIC twenty was sort of unusual in another 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:31.200 way to UM because you know, by today's standards, it 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.880 wouldn't be as unusual UM, but at this point it's 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.679 a machine that didn't have its own monitor, UM, and 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.319 it really didn't have a monitor that you got with it. 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.160 You were really most people I knew that had VIC 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.840 twenties just took him up to a TV UM. But 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.040 that was part of its appeal was it was for 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.240 people who wanted to mess around with computers. And at 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.559 that point, if you had a home computer, you were 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.360 somebody who wanted to mess around with computers. UM. This 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.720 wasn't something that you did because you wanted to log 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.679 into bulletin boards or because you you know, uh needed 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.640 the Internet for school or something like that. You didn't 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.440 why would you want a computer in your house? You know, 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.760 because I like computers. I want to learn more about computers. 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:17.640 So you know, this is this is an affordable way 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.640 for people to get on in on the ground floor 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:23.320 and fool around with computers. UM. Now, it wasn't exactly 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:28.880 a powerful machine. Five kilobytes of Braham, yeah, and only 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.920 three and a half kilobytes were available once you booted 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.240 it up. The other one and a half that that 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:38.600 was dedicated to the startup process and running the the 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:41.040 the back end of the machine, So you only had 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:45.440 three and a half kilobytes of RAM to work with. UM. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.800 And it was cartridge based, but it also you could 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:50.480 also get a cassette tape drive that we could connect 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.160 to it. Um. And one of the advantages of hooking 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.440 it up to your television was that if you have 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.080 a color TV, you have a color monitor, whereas if 0:09:58.080 --> 0:09:59.840 you look at the other computers on the market at 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.560 that time, they were monochromatic monitors. So that was a 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:08.320 big advantage. Now, these these advantages still if you look 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:12.120 at the power of the VIC twenty, that was that 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:14.440 was the biggest criticism as direct at the VIC twenty 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.520 was that it was underpowered. So, uh, Commodore had a 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:22.720 response to that, which brings us to the real subject 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:28.040 of this podcast. In nine two, Commodore introduced the Commodore 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:32.040 sixty four and they introduced it at C E s YEP. 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.960 Now this, uh, both of these machines have essentially the 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:38.720 same form factor. UM. And if you look at it 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:41.080 now go back and if you've never seen one, and 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:42.840 you go back and look at photos of this, it 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.320 looks sort of like it's just the keyboard. Um. It 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.439 was sort of an all in one, but it wasn't 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.720 like we think of it today. And in terms of 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.560 you know, some of the machines that that come out 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.800 that are all in one where they have the monitor 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.400 with the computer in it. This was the keyboard with 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:01.000 the computer in it. Um. And uh, yeah, those keys 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:07.760 were very clicky, but I mean absolutely solid machines, solid 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.800 to the point of if you if you were to 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.559 drop one on your foot, you might need medical attention. Well, 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.600 Commodore believed in making these machines tough. Um. But yeah, 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.199 I mean it's it's not exactly a glamour queen of 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.440 a machine, but you know, but how do it work? 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.959 And very versatile. Uh. It originally cost five hundred dollars, 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.679 which in today's dollars one three d twenty six bucks. 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:38.280 And still at five that's still very affordable compared to 0:11:38.320 --> 0:11:41.520 the other personal computers, especially the Apple. To the two 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.400 main competitors against Commodore at this time, we're really a 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:50.160 tari An Apple Texas Instruments to a slightly lesser degree 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:55.080 and Tandy to a much lesser degree. Um. But yeah, 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.120 the five price point was very attractive. And the reason 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.760 why it's called the sixty four is that had sixty 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.120 four kilobytes of RAM. Commodore was always looking for those 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:10.240 fancy names. Yeah. Uh. The The design team included Robert Russell, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:14.640 Bob Jannis, and David ZIMBECKI. Um, they were the ones 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:18.160 who kind of were the brains behind the original development, 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.360 although there were other people who were also very heavily 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.600 involved in creating this this computer. And I have the 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.640 first paragraph of the user manual if you would like 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:30.440 to hear it. Absolutely, let's go with that. Your new 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.720 Commodore sixty four is the best home computer available today. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.280 You can use your Commodore sixty four for everything from 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.120 business applications to household paperwork to exciting games. The sixty 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:44.040 four offers you lots of memory six yes, lots of 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:49.599 color sixteen different colors, lots of sound, music and zund effects, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.480 and lots of fun and practical uses. You can use 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.320 prepackaged software or you can write your own programs and 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.959 easy to learn Basic. Well, their version of easy to 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.040 learned Basic apparently wasn't easy to learn for everyone, because 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.640 I've seen some criticism leveled at it. However, UM, what 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.400 what's funny is that this machine was It's not funny 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:16.320 that this machine took off. UM. People had many many 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:19.800 people owned a VIC twenty, a Commodore sixty four or both. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:24.800 UM and the power of this machine was not in 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:30.280 its processing power or its speed, but it was in 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.680 its ability to reach people with the idea of having 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.080 a computer at home. And it did have some other 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.280 features that made it very attractive. Um, it had eight 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.360 bit graphics, which put it on par with the the 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.160 home video game systems that were coming out, so there 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.839 was a an appeal to video game enthusiasts, and there 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.120 were a lot of games that came out for the 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.760 Common War sixty four that were that ended up being 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.240 incredibly popular. Uh. And then there was the fact that 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.960 it also allowed you to program in languages like Pascal, Logo, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.319 fourth and Fortran. One of the big things about the 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:08.240 Comparse sixty four. One of the things that was most 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.280 attractive to a lot of users was the fact that 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:15.520 it had a sound interface device sound chip or SID chip. Yes. Now, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.160 the SID chip was developed by Bob Yannis, who he 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.240 mentioned earlier, and he actually would later on go on 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.600 to found a synthesizer company, so he knew a thing 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.640 or two. He actually knew a lot about about sound 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.480 design music, and he wanted to be able to create 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.560 a device that could represent some a pretty broad array 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.840 of sounds, and the Converse sixty four had a much 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:42.120 more sophisticated sound system than almost any other device on 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.920 the market at that time. So you still have people 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.800 who are very much fans of the old Common War 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:53.800 sixty four when it comes to creating music today. And 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:58.720 you can still find lots of sixty four out there. Um. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.360 There's a site that's dedicated to the C sixty four 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.600 uh C sixty four dot com, which is pretty interesting 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.800 if you like to play around with that. But UM, 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:11.040 one of the I remember back when I was a 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:13.920 kid and people had the Vick twenties and sixty four. 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:18.000 A lot of the magazines out there, UM, you know, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.600 the computing magazines liked to offer a program um in 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.280 the back of the magazine, so you'd read about you know, 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:28.960 it was sort of like the PC worlds of the day, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:33.080 but it was you know, magazines like Compute um had 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:37.640 uh you read about peripherals and and cool things you 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.280 could do with your computer, and then the back of 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.360 the the thing it would tell you about how to program, 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.000 and it would have a program in there that you 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.760 could enter in yourself. UM. And I think that was 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:48.280 that was sort of a beautiful thing. A friend of 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.520 mine and I uh sort of dabbled in that. Uh, 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.880 you know, working on trying to to come up with 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.600 uh or try to play some of the games that 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.920 they had written in there. And it was really kind 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:03.160 of cool because it gave you this perception that programming 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:08.200 something yourself it wasn't really all that hard. Um. You know, 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.720 it's it's sort of daunting in a way to to 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:15.400 pop in um DVD now or you know, download something 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.000 from the internet and you play these games with these 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.080 amazing graphics today and and sound you know, uh, surround 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.440 sound and and uh you know, millions of colors, but 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:28.760 you know, you have to get down to the hood, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:30.760 you to actually look at the code that that seems 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.000 kind of and and you know, for some people it 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.760 can be really daunting, I think for most people, because 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.040 I didn't want to make it sound like you know 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:42.000 everyone that way. But back and back when the Cover 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.600 sixty four launched, it was completely feasible for a single 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:50.080 person to create a game from start to finish. Everything 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.600 from the graphics to the sound, to the gameplay itself, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.480 the story, whatever you want to call it, all of 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.680 that was completely feasible for one or maybe maybe a 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:02.760 mall team of people like two or three to put 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.919 it all together. And of course today to create games 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:12.280 that compete at at the standard level. It's entire divisions 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.439 of companies that build games. Now, that doesn't mean that 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.320 there aren't still people out there who take it upon 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.520 themselves to create a game all by themselves. And there's 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.800 some really popular and compelling games out there. They're made 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.000 by a single person. But that's the exception, not the rule, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.159 as opposed to the other way around. Back in the 0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.480 Commodore sixty four premiered, and it was sort of a 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:36.960 basic platform. That's kind of a pun but unintended, but 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.200 it was. It was a platform for people to learn 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:43.240 the foundations for computer programming, and so it was a 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.240 very popular device, especially I mean, if you talk to 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:50.479 people who are a well established computer scientists today, a 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:53.720 lot of them have fond memories of the Commodore sixty 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.240 four because that was the machine that got them into 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:00.200 computer science. And I had read too that one of 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.880 the benefits, one of the detriments of the sixty four 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.280 led to one of the uh real strengths of the 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.520 sixty four, which was, um, it really didn't have a 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.040 lot of uh didn't have a lot of memory. You 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.399 didn't have a lot of room to play with code. 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.439 So the people who learned a program learned to do 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.919 that very efficiently because they didn't have a lot of 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.879 room for error um, and a lot of room for 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.600 extraneous stuff in their code. Now. UM, I don't know 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.360 if you knew this or not, but they they may. 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.800 For a while, Commodore actually considered the possibility of doing 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.080 something else before they released the sixty four. In fact, 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.920 they heard an overture from some people at a budding 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:46.280 brand new computer company. Um, but they turned him down. 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.560 A couple of guys named Steve who had approached who 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.679 had approached Commodore with the idea of, hey, wouldn't you 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:57.400 like to buy this computer design we have in mind? Um. 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.920 And as it turns out, Commodore passed on the idea 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.639 for the Apple too. Um what what is now? Apple 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:09.359 could have been Commodore in a way. But in in 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:11.960 doing so, we actually ended up with two great machines 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.639 because we ended up with the sixty four and the 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.600 Apple two, which ended up being competitors. Um. But it's 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:19.639 kind of funny. I I had no idea. Now I 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.040 knew about the ties with them with Atari, of course, um, 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.280 since they were at engineers. But yeah, and that's gonna 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.000 get even more complicated in a minute to Uh. Yeah, 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:35.320 the the and the sixty four used cartridges just like 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.960 the VIC twenty did. Also could use cassettes, but it 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:44.840 also had an optional floppy drive five and a quarter 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.960 inch floppy drive five and a quarter inch discs still 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:50.159 have some and yeah, I think I do too, but 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.520 they're all for the Apple to ye two. But they 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.439 but the floppy disk. I think the drive cost a 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.440 thousand dollars, so it was actually more expensive than the 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:02.399 compute or itself. Uh. And it was an add on 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:06.240 that you could get and plug into your Commodore sixty 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:10.600 four to give it additional functionality. Yeah, and the cartridges 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.919 could allow you to get better performance out of your 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.640 Commodore sixty four. It wasn't just like a video game 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.439 console where a cartridge game is on the cartridge itself. 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:23.680 In fact, the the addition of the floppy drive was 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:29.320 kind of interesting because that introduced a new concept in computers, 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:33.800 which was piracy, because you know, with cartridges, you had 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.160 them hard coded on you know, the programs were hard 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.840 coded on the cartridge itself. Yeah, you had a rom 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:44.040 on this chip. There's no way that you could really 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.800 manufacture one of your own. You could, but you'd have 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:49.960 to know how to burn the chips, and it's it's 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:51.919 not something that people have the hardware for. Yeah, you 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:55.360 couldn't really do it at home. Whereas whereas with disks, 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.679 it was it suddenly became feasible to be able to 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.400 copy programs from one disk to another, and that's when 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.399 you started seeing things like copy protection being added on 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:07.520 into disks, and then you started seeing things like people 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:10.399 figuring out how to get around copy protection. Well, that 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.200 all kind of started with the Commodore sixty four, also 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:16.720 in nineteen eight six, so a few years after it 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.240 had debuted, you started to see a new operating system 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.680 appear on Commodore sixty four called GEOS, which is Graphic 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.960 Environment Operating System, so it was a graphic user interface. 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:32.000 Now keep in mind that the the mac OS, which 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.399 was the first operating system to popular popularize the g 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.119 U I in n four, it had been out for 0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.960 a couple of years, so it wasn't like Commodore sixty 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:44.960 four was breaking new ground. They were kind of going 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.119 the same direction that that Apple was going in at 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:49.880 that time. And of course, before anyone writes in yes, 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:54.080 We're aware Xerox Park had developed the the g U 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:59.159 I years before. That's why he said popularize and home computers. 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.919 Those are two important parts of that discussion. Yeah, when 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.359 you were using an Apple two or a Commodore sixty 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:09.399 four VIC twenty UM, the Atari four eight hundred UM, 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:14.119 the early IBM PCs, you know, we're we're talking a 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.520 text based operating system primarily UM to get started with, 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.560 and then you know things things changed in the mid eighties. 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:25.520 But uh yeah, yeah, so we're not talking keyboard and mouse, 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:30.720 we're talking keyboard and keyboard keyboard. Yeah, the and and 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:34.159 common Wood chose a pretty interesting way to market the 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.840 sixty four. Not only was it a cheaper computer than 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.240 all of its competitors, they decided to try and get 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.720 the sixty four into retail stores, not just electronics stores. Yes, 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:46.879 so you can actually find a Commodore sixty four at 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:51.159 like a toy store, yeah, or a major retailer, And 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.639 so they were you know, the idea was try and 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:56.919 get this device in front of as many average consumers 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.000 as possible as opposed to throwing them in an elector 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.280 ronic store where you really had more of a hobbyist 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:06.280 kind of mentality, right, I mean, you don't. The average 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.480 consumer just wasn't necessarily walking into an electronics store on 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.240 a fairly regular basis. So that helped really push the 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.480 popularity of the common Wore sixty four. And in fact, 0:23:15.960 --> 0:23:19.640 according to almost every source I could find, Uh, there 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:21.800 was a point in some part of the discussion of 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.840 the Commover sixty four about it being the most popular 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:30.080 personal computer model ever. Yeah, that's kind of hard to 0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.720 quantify realistically, right, but but when you but if you 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:37.320