Speaker 1: Do you think that we as people are able to
Speaker 1: love unconditionally?
Speaker 2: You know, my husband and I have that debate. Who
Speaker 2: always tells me I'm his soulmate. He's a romantic and
Speaker 2: I am less of a romantic.
Speaker 1: I learn a lot from my dog and from my child,
Speaker 1: yes I mean, and from my boyfriend too, who he
Speaker 1: does seem to love me unconditionally. I seem to have
Speaker 1: a lot more conditions.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it's a female thing too.
Speaker 3: Maybe it is a female thing.
Speaker 4: Hello, I'm mini driver. I've always loved Proust's questionnaire. It
Speaker 4: was originally in nineteenth century parlor game where players would
Speaker 4: ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the
Speaker 4: other player's true nature.
Speaker 3: In asking different.
Speaker 4: People the same set of questions, you can make observations
Speaker 4: about which truths appear to be universal. And it made
Speaker 4: me wonder, what if these questions were just the jumping
Speaker 4: off point, what greater depths would be revealed if I
Speaker 4: asked these questions as conversation starters. So I adapted Pru's
Speaker 4: questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that I
Speaker 4: personally think are pertinent to a person's story. They are
Speaker 4: when and where were you happiest. What is the quality
Speaker 4: you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines.
Speaker 3: Love for you?
Speaker 4: What question would you most like answered, What person, place,
Speaker 4: or experience has shaped you the most? What would be
Speaker 4: your last meal? And can you tell me something in
Speaker 4: your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And
Speaker 4: I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that
Speaker 4: I am honored and humbled to have had the chance
Speaker 4: to engage with. You may not hear their answers to
Speaker 4: all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to
Speaker 4: which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising,
Speaker 4: or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest
Speaker 4: today is is Governor of the State of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer.
Speaker 4: Governor Whitmer is an open, articulate, fantastically strong public servant.
Speaker 4: I like that term better than politician because there's an
Speaker 4: honesty and lack of hubrius present in it, qualities that
Speaker 4: I think Governor Whitmer also exemplifies. I was really excited
Speaker 4: to have her on my show for lots of reasons,
Speaker 4: but like you, the main one being so I could
Speaker 4: ask is it going to be okay, to which she replied, yes,
Speaker 4: so few. She said, in politics and in moments like this,
Speaker 4: we just have to remain resilient and forward facing. There
Speaker 4: is a deeply sensible and reliable aura that I felt
Speaker 4: from Governor Whitmer. She speaks with the same resolve about
Speaker 4: feeling positive about the future as she does sharing incredibly
Speaker 4: painful memories from her life, her attempt at kidnapping and
Speaker 4: the sexual assault she experienced while in college. All of
Speaker 4: these things have created a resilient and a voice that
Speaker 4: is inspiring, and I, for one, am incredibly glad that
Speaker 4: voice exists in the American political arena today. Governor Whitman's book,
Speaker 4: True Gritch What I've Learned about Life, leadership, and everything
Speaker 4: in between, came out last year.
Speaker 1: Would you tell me where and when you were happiest?
Speaker 2: I love the question because I reflected, you know, on
Speaker 2: various points in my life. When I think, one of
Speaker 2: the hardest times in my life was when I was
Speaker 2: pregnant with my first daughter, but also taking care of
Speaker 2: my mom at the end of her life, and my
Speaker 2: mom was dying of brain cancer. She was only fifty
Speaker 2: nine at the time, and I was pregnant and brought
Speaker 2: this new little girl into the world, who I named
Speaker 2: after my mom. And I remember having some really peaceful,
Speaker 2: happy moments despite it being so tough losing my mom
Speaker 2: and the sadness that came with that, but being able
Speaker 2: to focus on the future in really.
Speaker 5: Hard time trimes.
Speaker 2: I felt really at peace and very happy during those
Speaker 2: early years of my daughter's life.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, and your mom met your baby daughter,
Speaker 1: she did?
Speaker 2: You know, you always hear those stories about people that
Speaker 2: defy odds or live longer because they have something to
Speaker 2: look forward to. And I was always a little skeptical,
Speaker 2: but I saw it in my mom. She was given
Speaker 2: four to six months to live and lived for over
Speaker 2: eighteen months and saw the birth of her first grandchild,
Speaker 2: who became her namesake. And I think it was good healthcare,
Speaker 2: was good attitude, supportive family, but also something to look
Speaker 2: forward to.
Speaker 1: It's incredible, actually our intention, Like look at that, intending
Speaker 1: to prolong our life because we want to do something,
Speaker 1: we forget to believe. We forget to believe in the
Speaker 1: power of our intention and the idea of setting our course.
Speaker 1: Like I love that your mum set the coordinates. What
Speaker 1: I am going to meet my granddaughter, and I love
Speaker 1: the idea that death was no match for that, for
Speaker 1: that intention.
Speaker 2: That real estate between your two ears, my father always says,
Speaker 2: is the most valuable right, because what you think, your
Speaker 2: intention that drives so much of what your reality.
Speaker 3: Is, it really does.
Speaker 1: But you, I think so often we get swayed by
Speaker 1: we get swayed by what is circumstantial. So we get
Speaker 1: swayed by the day we wake up it's raining, the
Speaker 1: gas has been turned off, and we've broken up with
Speaker 1: our partner, and we align ourselves with the awfulness of
Speaker 1: that as opposed to the thing that solves for all
Speaker 1: of that, which is what is inside. I wish they
Speaker 1: taught it in school. I wish that the idea of
Speaker 1: intention setting and aligning yourself with the best possible outcome
Speaker 1: even when things look really dire. I talk about it
Speaker 1: a lot with my son, actually, particularly in these days
Speaker 1: where it really feels like the sky is falling in
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways in our world. The best
Speaker 1: thing I found to say to him is to keep
Speaker 1: looking for the good and to keep aligning with that,
Speaker 1: and to not give the airtime or the energy to
Speaker 1: all of that roiling horror that's going to roil and
Speaker 1: horror and do its thing. But what we have to
Speaker 1: do is to stay for the focused. And it's really difficult.
Speaker 3: It's a discipline. It feels like a profound spiritual practice.
Speaker 5: It is a practice.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, one of the things that
Speaker 2: I've come to realize and really appreciate is we all
Speaker 2: have control.
Speaker 5: It feels like so much is out of our control
Speaker 5: and so.
Speaker 2: Much is but we all have control about what we
Speaker 2: take in from the world, in what we put out
Speaker 2: into the world. And I'm always my girls, And even
Speaker 2: on the hardest days, I sit down and I rate
Speaker 2: three good things that happened, or three things for which
Speaker 2: I'm grateful. And so some days it's my dogs and
Speaker 2: a glass of wine and the Great British Baking Show.
Speaker 2: But I find something for which I'm grateful.
Speaker 3: I have the same three.
Speaker 1: I have the same three, the same tree list.
Speaker 3: That's a good list right there.
Speaker 1: And what would you counter with, you know, in those
Speaker 1: moments where it feels because let's face it, it can
Speaker 1: feel tidal when things that are outside of our control,
Speaker 1: whether it's politics or what we see going on globally
Speaker 1: or whatever is going on personally, in our lives when
Speaker 1: it feels tidal. Do you really feel that sitting down
Speaker 1: and counting your making a gratitude list in that moment,
Speaker 1: is that really can stave off the tide of fear
Speaker 1: or negative thinking.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I really believe that that practice has helped me navigate
Speaker 2: some of the hardest, most unimaginable things I could have
Speaker 2: ever fathomed. I'm an ordinary person, but I serve in
Speaker 2: a really extraordinary rule, and it's an extraordinary time in
Speaker 2: which to serve. And even at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: sitting down and feeling overwhelmed and we all feel that
Speaker 2: on occasion, but centering back to three things for which
Speaker 2: I'm grateful will help me look at the next ten
Speaker 2: yards instead of getting overwhelmed by the next one hundred,
Speaker 2: and helps me manage I'm sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my gosh, If you're doing that from
Speaker 1: the point of governance, that makes ess Actually, I find
Speaker 1: that incredibly positive because you're a human being tasked.
Speaker 3: With a big job. But I like the.
Speaker 1: Idea that you can keep things grossroots in a way
Speaker 1: to manage those big things.
Speaker 3: That's really useful.
Speaker 1: What question would you most like answered?
Speaker 2: Well, I think you know at fifty three years old
Speaker 2: and with my mother who died at fifty nine. I
Speaker 2: do think what happens after this life, That's a question
Speaker 2: I would love to know the answer to, and I
Speaker 2: never will and I would you have to be at
Speaker 2: peace with that, because there's I will never know for
Speaker 2: sure until it happens. But I think that's one that
Speaker 2: is always kind of in the background of my head.
Speaker 5: How do I appreciate.
Speaker 2: The moment I'm in now and stay in the moment
Speaker 2: and recognize I won't ever get the answer to that question.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's I think what's interesting is
Speaker 1: there's an answer in what you just said that.
Speaker 3: I wonder if we knew, would.
Speaker 1: We allow ourselves to be as present in this life,
Speaker 1: if we were so busy focused on or going, oh,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what I do now, because I'm going
Speaker 1: to my immortality and all these.
Speaker 3: Good things are going to happen there.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's maybe that's part of it, that
Speaker 1: we wouldn't be as present if we were so certain.
Speaker 2: One of the quotes, I think it is Carl Sagan
Speaker 2: but said we all began to stardust, and we will
Speaker 2: all go back to stardust. One day something to that effect,
Speaker 2: and we're all connected and we existed in some form always,
Speaker 2: and that gives me some peace. But I'm searching. I'm
Speaker 2: a searcher.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean me too. I guess it's knowing. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't look it probably doesn't look like this. Like when
Speaker 1: I think about my mum or my dad, both of
Speaker 1: who've died, I can feel them so specifically, but I
Speaker 1: can't see them.
Speaker 3: Obviously, I can't hug them, but.
Speaker 1: I feel them in the same in that same way.
Speaker 1: That's not a memory of love. It feels way more
Speaker 1: present than that. So I quite like the mystery. I
Speaker 1: quite like the mystery because mystery and gender's faith, and
Speaker 1: perhaps that's the most that we can have as humans,
Speaker 1: because we just have no idea why we are here,
Speaker 1: what the meaning is. Love seems to be the biggest
Speaker 1: one I could ever point to. Yeah, but I like
Speaker 1: that Carl Sagan quote, You're right, we're dust.
Speaker 3: It's so funny.
Speaker 1: It can sound pejorative, you're dust, and then it can
Speaker 1: also sound incredibly positive, your stardust star dust.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me something in your life that has
Speaker 1: grown out of a personal disaster?
Speaker 2: I wrote a book recently, and you know, part of
Speaker 2: the reason I wrote it is people would often ask,
Speaker 2: with all the threats I've gotten and all of the
Speaker 2: crises I've had to lead through, why do I want
Speaker 2: to keep doing this? Why do I still feel optimistic?
Speaker 2: And I thought, I'm going to give people reasons why
Speaker 2: they should feel optimistic and things that I've learned in
Speaker 2: my life that have helped.
Speaker 5: Me navigate this.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that people responded most kind
Speaker 2: of strongly too, was in the book I talk about
Speaker 2: listening and the power of listening and why more people
Speaker 2: need to cultivate that strength. I think it's a superpower.
Speaker 2: I'd like to understand from the men who were involved
Speaker 2: in a plot to kidnap and kill me, I would
Speaker 2: like to understand why. I would actually like to meet
Speaker 2: with one of them and ask them why and understand
Speaker 2: what was going on in their lives. And people have
Speaker 2: thought that's kind of a strange thing to say, I
Speaker 2: get it, but maybe there's something to learn that will
Speaker 2: help me be a better governor or a better human being.
Speaker 2: Because it was unusual in a country of three hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty million people that about a dozen chose to
Speaker 2: put together a plot to kidnap and kill a sitting governor.
Speaker 2: So what was happening there and what was going on
Speaker 2: in their lives that maybe there's some good that can
Speaker 2: come from us.
Speaker 5: I haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2: I'd like to do, but there's still all sorts of appeals,
Speaker 2: so I can't do it yet, But one day i'd
Speaker 2: like to. I'd like to see if I can understand
Speaker 2: something or learn something.
Speaker 1: I think that is an astonishing way to approach what
Speaker 1: is unfathomable for all of us. I think that will
Speaker 1: be an amazing book, and I really hope that you
Speaker 1: write it and examine those ideas. But God, I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry that happened to you. It's a poetry thing, but
Speaker 1: I am assuming that you will turn it into something
Speaker 1: else down the line. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: A therapist once said to me, we're all a ball
Speaker 2: of clay, and sometimes things are taken away from us.
Speaker 2: It's not our fault. Something's taken away. And when a
Speaker 2: ball of clay is hollowed out, it becomes a cup,
Speaker 2: a vessel, and it has purpose. And so I think
Speaker 2: that's maybe a piece of wisdom that someone gave to
Speaker 2: me that has helped me find value even in really tough,
Speaker 2: unfair stuff that happens.
Speaker 1: That's such a good way of putting it personally in like,
Speaker 1: for you, how do you know when something that has
Speaker 1: been lost or removed or is painful.
Speaker 3: Is something that needs to be let go of? And
Speaker 3: how do you know when it.
Speaker 1: Is something that can be turned into something else?
Speaker 2: I don't know, dang it, I really did think.
Speaker 5: I think it reveals itself, you know, Minnie.
Speaker 2: I often think about as I'm a survivor of sexual
Speaker 2: assault when I was in college and I had not.
Speaker 5: Talked about it publicly for decades. I'd shared it with
Speaker 5: a few partners over the.
Speaker 2: Years, but I had never spoken about it publicly. And
Speaker 2: we were having a very difficult debate in the Michigan
Speaker 2: legislature and I had revealed that I'd been raped in
Speaker 2: college during the debate. I had not planned to do it,
Speaker 2: And in the aftermath of it, I needed to call
Speaker 2: my dad on the way home from work because I
Speaker 2: knew it would be in the news and I wanted
Speaker 2: him to hear from me instead of on the news.
Speaker 2: And anyway, I carried that with me in silence for
Speaker 2: twenty years, and then I spoke about it, and then
Speaker 2: I got more comfortable speaking about it and realize that
Speaker 2: it's given me purpose. And now as a champion for
Speaker 2: women's reproductive rights, I can see that my experience, even
Speaker 2: though it was hideous and I would never want anyone
Speaker 2: else to go through it, I have found my voice
Speaker 2: in it and it's given me purpose. And that's maybe
Speaker 2: the most visceral example. But I didn't know that it
Speaker 2: had any purpose until twenty years after the event when
Speaker 2: I shared it, And now it's become a part of
Speaker 2: my how I try to persuade people about supporting reproductive rates.
Speaker 1: I think that's extraordinary, and that is quite literally the
Speaker 1: I'm assuming earning something terrible into something good. But also
Speaker 1: I think those things take time to marinate. They take
Speaker 1: time for us to be able to articulate in a
Speaker 1: way that will be heard. Because particularly around this, but
Speaker 1: particularly we look at women who have not been believed
Speaker 1: for so long, around sexual assault of rape kits sitting
Speaker 1: in police stations, unused, and women not being believed. It
Speaker 1: feels very much that in a way, we were waiting
Speaker 1: for women to come to a place where they could
Speaker 1: articulate this agony in a way that was going to
Speaker 1: be that was going to reach ears like I want
Speaker 1: of twenty years ago, if anyone would have heard you
Speaker 1: when you talked about it in the way that you
Speaker 1: can speak about it now, which from I've heard you
Speaker 1: speak on it a little in the past. It is
Speaker 1: so clear, it is so without self pity, even though
Speaker 1: you would have every right to feel that way. And
Speaker 1: more than that, it is galvanizing, and that to me,
Speaker 1: that galvanizing means change is possible, and also that anyone
Speaker 1: listening whould also suffered from that will feel stronger because
Speaker 1: of it. So I wonder again, like the divine timing
Speaker 1: of the time when we are able to speak about
Speaker 1: terrible things again, it's a superpower. It's a superpower to
Speaker 1: be able to turn that stuff into something else. Gosh,
Speaker 1: the more I say this, I really do hope that
Speaker 1: you write your book because I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people for whom who feel powerless in their lives over
Speaker 1: either situations or their emotions, would really benefit.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: So, can you tell me what person, place, or experience
Speaker 1: most altered your life.
Speaker 2: I think the time that I was taking care of
Speaker 2: my mom at the end of her life and my
Speaker 2: daughter at the beginning of hers. You know, they say
Speaker 2: that the five most stressful events that ever happen in
Speaker 2: a course of a lifetime are moving your home, starting
Speaker 2: a new job, the birth of a loved one, the
Speaker 2: death of a loved one, and a new marriage. And
Speaker 2: I did all five of those things the span of
Speaker 2: a year and a half when I was newly elected
Speaker 2: state representative in Michigan, caring for my mom at the
Speaker 2: end of her life. I just had my daughter after
Speaker 2: getting married, and for whatever reason, I decided that was
Speaker 2: a good time to move my home.
Speaker 5: Too, which was crazy.
Speaker 2: But it was that period of time that was, without
Speaker 2: question that the heaviest and hardest, but also really made
Speaker 2: me who I am today. I don't have patience for bs.
Speaker 2: I want to get things done, and I had to
Speaker 2: find an insurance company at that time and figure out
Speaker 2: how to keep nursing my daughter and prepare for work,
Speaker 2: and it was a really difficult time in my life,
Speaker 2: but it forged who I am today. And so without question,
Speaker 2: that's what I would point to is having given me
Speaker 2: the skills to navigate a pandemic and get a state
Speaker 2: of ten million people through some of the most incredible challenges.
Speaker 5: It was that period of time for me.
Speaker 3: Wow, Wow. I mean, I don't know how you did it.
Speaker 1: Truly, I don't know how you did one of those things,
Speaker 1: because I've been through a few of them, and britt
Speaker 1: to have been simultaneous is extraordinary. Did you find that,
Speaker 1: I think women often become a centrifuge in certainly like
Speaker 1: within a family and when things are happening incredibly focused
Speaker 1: and organized. Did you find that people showed up to
Speaker 1: really help that once you knew what it was you.
Speaker 3: Had to do.
Speaker 1: You had to be there for your mother, you had
Speaker 1: to be there for your baby daughter, you had to
Speaker 1: move your home, and you had to govern ten million people.
Speaker 1: Did you find that people came into your sphere to
Speaker 1: really support and help you.
Speaker 5: Absolutely? I am really fortunate.
Speaker 2: I've got wonderful friends and extended family and a team
Speaker 2: around me that I couldn't have done any of it
Speaker 2: without a lot of people having chipped in and been
Speaker 2: a part of it.
Speaker 5: And it's interesting too.
Speaker 2: I think it reaffirms why it's so important that we
Speaker 2: have diverse groups of.
Speaker 5: People in decision making places.
Speaker 2: A lot of my male counterparts, my brother, didn't have
Speaker 2: the same lived experience I did, even though he was
Speaker 2: alive at the same time, and so when there is
Speaker 2: a woman at the table, when there's a debate around
Speaker 2: healthcare or childcare, it's so important because it's not just
Speaker 2: about women, but we have a different experience taking care.
Speaker 5: Of our dads or our brothers or our sons.
Speaker 2: It helps everyone, and I think that, for me is
Speaker 2: one of the most important takeaways from all those hardships,
Speaker 2: is that we need diversity around tables to make better decisions.
Speaker 2: Companies see better bottom lines, governments see better outcomes. And
Speaker 2: that's I think a really important lesson from all of
Speaker 2: that too, that I've always always tried to keep focus on.
Speaker 1: Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. I'm very interested
Speaker 1: Why if you and I can sit here and acknowledge
Speaker 1: that and demonstrably one can see that it is true
Speaker 1: across the board, from corporations and within politics, why is
Speaker 1: it so hard for it to be reflected. Why is
Speaker 1: it so hard to be come not just policy politically,
Speaker 1: but social policy. Why why when it so clearly betters everything.
Speaker 1: Do you think there is a resistance to that kind
Speaker 1: of diversity?
Speaker 2: I mean there have been unscrupulous I think motives for
Speaker 2: people that have tried to suggest that when you have
Speaker 2: that kind of empowerment. It means someone gets left out
Speaker 2: that like if you champion you know, greater diversity here,
Speaker 2: it means it comes at the cost of another, And
Speaker 2: that's not true at all.
Speaker 5: In fact, everyone benefits from it.
Speaker 2: But I do think that there are people with their
Speaker 2: own agendas who try to make the case that some
Speaker 2: people get excluded and they've benefited personally from that. But
Speaker 2: it's a fallacy and I think it's a lesson.
Speaker 5: We're going to learn the hard way. Unfortunately, right now.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, it sure feels like the
Speaker 1: amount of times one I've heard different versions of what
Speaker 1: you've just said, and it was completely and utterly like
Speaker 1: it was like speaking into the wind.
Speaker 3: Do you think that that's that? Really?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 3: Really? Is it?
Speaker 1: That people will sadly learn the hard way. They'll learn
Speaker 1: through losing healthcare, they'll learn through the spread of diseases,
Speaker 1: they'll learn through their social security essentially through their pocketbook,
Speaker 1: and through their health are the only ways that those
Speaker 1: lessons might be learned.
Speaker 2: I don't savor the thought, but I think that's probably true.
Speaker 2: I know that there are some who have voice, well,
Speaker 2: this is what the people have asked for, and now
Speaker 2: they're going to have to feel it right that I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't like that philosophy. It feels so cynical and
Speaker 2: kind of cruel. Yeah, but I do think that we
Speaker 2: will see the ramifications of that, and maybe maybe that'll
Speaker 2: help us get back to a place where people understand that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm in complete agreement. It's been one
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to understand of why a fear
Speaker 1: led response to that, or the idea that if inclusion
Speaker 1: means exclusion somewhere else, it's a really strange social math
Speaker 1: that I guess. I hope there's a there's I hope
Speaker 1: there's another way that that can be explained, that it
Speaker 1: could be explained with love, so that we could all
Speaker 1: evolve together, because the idea is not it seems to me,
Speaker 1: this continuing division, but rather for all boats to rise
Speaker 1: with the tide. Like why any human would want anything
Speaker 1: other than that, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't understand, But.
Speaker 2: You use the right word. You said, fear, and that
Speaker 2: that is what it's all about. Fear is a powerful motivator,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't heal anything though.
Speaker 5: The only thing that can heal is love. So you've
Speaker 5: mentioned both.
Speaker 2: Words and I think that's really wise and a lot
Speaker 2: of truth to it.
Speaker 5: But fear motivates.
Speaker 2: People to pull away from one another, and love brings
Speaker 2: us together.
Speaker 1: It also feels that love itself has been redefined and
Speaker 1: divided in a way, the idea of what is loved
Speaker 1: and how does one heal that in this weird like
Speaker 1: because it feels like we're in a kind of post
Speaker 1: truth reality where all of the guardrails around fact and
Speaker 1: truth have been dismantled. Therefore, love itself is sort of
Speaker 1: up for grabs, Whereas I feel like it used to
Speaker 1: be something that we all agreed on what love felt like,
Speaker 1: and now it feels like it's been co opted for
Speaker 1: a lot of different reasons. Do you think there is
Speaker 1: a way of getting back to a collective idea of
Speaker 1: what love might be, which is kindness to each other
Speaker 1: and our neighbors, mean to me, tolerance, and compassion.
Speaker 5: I do, I absolutely do. I couldn't. I couldn't do
Speaker 5: this work.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to do this work if I didn't
Speaker 2: really believe that in my core. I'm sober about how
Speaker 2: difficult it is and showing up, continuing to make the
Speaker 2: choice to show up. I understand the inclination to want
Speaker 2: to turn away, which a lot of people are feeling
Speaker 2: right now because it does feel so heavy and overwhelming
Speaker 2: and how do you fix all the misinformation in the world,
Speaker 2: Like it's just huge and hard and heavy. But I
Speaker 2: also have found in my own life pulling away is
Speaker 2: the worst thing I can do. I feel worse.
Speaker 5: I need to be in it, And I'm encouraging people
Speaker 5: not to not to look away, but to say what
Speaker 5: can I do today? And each of us can play
Speaker 5: a role in that without a doubt, and important.
Speaker 3: Role absolutely.
Speaker 1: What relationship, real or fictionalized defines love for you?
Speaker 2: You know, I love my kids more than anything on
Speaker 2: the planet, my daughters, who I think have taught me
Speaker 2: so much. And I think that acceptance that comes that
Speaker 2: unconditional love. I never knew what it meant until I
Speaker 2: had children, And so I think that is the ideal
Speaker 2: scenario for what a relationship should look like, is complete
Speaker 2: acceptance and without condition.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's possible outside of children, because like
Speaker 1: we quite literally made them and in a way fashion
Speaker 1: that when they're little, when they're tiny, we are like
Speaker 1: these good creatures who fashion sort of what they do
Speaker 1: and think, like do you think that it's really possible
Speaker 1: outside of an animal, because I would put dogs in
Speaker 1: the same category of unconditional love. Do you think that
Speaker 1: that we as people are able to to love unconditionally?
Speaker 2: I don't know. You know, my husband and I have
Speaker 2: that debate. He always tells me I'm his soulmate. He's
Speaker 2: a romantic and I'm less of a romantic. And it's
Speaker 2: a well, but it's it's it's not unconditional unless it's
Speaker 2: your child. Adult relationship is different, but I think it
Speaker 2: can be. I just think it's it's not innate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's it. It's something that you have to
Speaker 1: work at. Yes, yeah, I wonder about that. I think
Speaker 1: maybe it's just it's worth it's worth thinking about and
Speaker 1: working on. I learn a lot from my dog and
Speaker 1: from my child, yes, I mean, and from my boyfriend too,
Speaker 1: who he does seem to love me unconditionally. I seem
Speaker 1: to have a lot more conditions. Maybe maybe it's a
Speaker 1: fee too, Maybe it is a female thing. What would
Speaker 1: be your last meal?
Speaker 2: Well, it would be it would make no sense. It's
Speaker 2: not like it all goes together. But I would want
Speaker 2: my grandma Esther's rolls. She used to make them from scratch,
Speaker 2: and I looked forward to it every Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Speaker 2: My father's homemade ice cream delicious. We used to hand
Speaker 2: creak it as a kid, and then, of course we've
Speaker 2: gotten much better, easier ice cream makers over the years,
Speaker 2: but he makes phenomenal ice cream.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it would be a totally curb meal.
Speaker 3: Let me get this straight. It would be rolls and
Speaker 3: ice cream. I love it. I absolutely love it. Do
Speaker 3: you know we used to do this thing.
Speaker 1: It was at someone else's house. It wasn't my mother,
Speaker 1: but they would put cream in a jar and through
Speaker 1: the whole of this night, this jar would go around.
Speaker 1: Everyone would like, jiggle this jar, and jiggle this jar,
Speaker 1: and jiggle as jar, and all.
Speaker 3: The kids would do it.
Speaker 1: Everyone would riggle the jar, and by the end of
Speaker 1: the evening it.
Speaker 3: Had turned into butter.
Speaker 1: And that was the most delicious thing that I have
Speaker 1: ever eaten. Although it felt like I was hungry again
Speaker 1: by the end because I'd burnt so many calories with
Speaker 1: the jiggling of the jar. But there's something about homemade
Speaker 1: food that is epic. Do you know how to make
Speaker 1: both of those things?
Speaker 3: Out of interest?
Speaker 1: Can you make those rolls and can you make that
Speaker 1: ice cream?
Speaker 5: We've been working on the rolls.
Speaker 2: My sister has perfected it thankfully, and yes, my dad
Speaker 2: is still alive and we all have the recipe and.
Speaker 3: It's so delicious.
Speaker 1: How amazing when I love that that, I love that
Speaker 1: that continues. I am so grateful to you for giving
Speaker 1: your time, but for being a voice in our democracy
Speaker 1: at this current moment. There are a few people who
Speaker 1: I will go and listen to when I'm feeling down
Speaker 1: about the state of the world, and you are one
Speaker 1: of them. So thanks, thank you so much for your
Speaker 1: time and your wisdom, and I just wish you all
Speaker 1: the best in everything.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 2: It was an honor to be on your podcast with you,
Speaker 2: and I appreciate all the good you put out in
Speaker 2: the world through this and everything else you do.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 4: Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver,
Speaker 4: Executive produced by Me and Aaron Kaufman, with production support
Speaker 4: from Jennifer Bassett, Zoey Denkler, and Ali Perry. The theme
Speaker 4: music is also by Me and additional music by Aaron Kaufman.
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Speaker 4: a Nick Oppenheim, A, Nick Muller and Annette wolf A WKPR,
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