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Speaker 4: I just think it's fascinating that it's such a fundamental

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Speaker 4: force in the universe, right Like, it's basically the thing

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Speaker 4: that builds galaxies and keeps planets moving right and gives

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Speaker 4: structure to the entire cosmos.

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Speaker 1: That's right, on the largest scale, it's actually the most

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Speaker 1: important force. It's the reason why things look the way

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Speaker 1: they do. It's the reason why our planet is round.

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Speaker 1: It's the reason why we're on the planet. It's pretty important.

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Speaker 4: And yet we don't know a lot about it, right Like,

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Speaker 4: there's some really deep and strange mysteries about it.

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Speaker 1: On one hand, we have a theory which works really

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Speaker 1: really well. On the other hand, we have questions about

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Speaker 1: it which seem really really basic.

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Speaker 4: And not only that, it's very different than all the

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Speaker 4: other forces of nature.

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Speaker 3: That's right, one of these things is not like the

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Speaker 3: other ones.

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Speaker 4: Hi'm Moray.

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Speaker 1: I'm a cartoonist, and I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist.

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Speaker 4: And this is our podcast Daniel and Joge explain the universe.

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Speaker 1: In which a cartoonist and a physicists try to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to make the universe understandable to anybody.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and today on the podcast we are examining a

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Speaker 4: very heavy topic, gravity and specifically why is gravity so.

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Speaker 3: Weak and strange.

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Speaker 1: Gravity, as we said earlier, is something which controls the

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Speaker 1: structure of the universe. I mean, the reason the Solar

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Speaker 1: system looks the way it does is because of gravity.

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Speaker 1: The reason the Earth is round is because of gravity.

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Speaker 1: The reason we have galaxies is because of gravity.

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Speaker 4: The reason we weigh so much, it is because of gravity. Right.

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Speaker 4: It's not my belt.

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Speaker 1: No, that's because of late night cake eating.

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Speaker 4: But it's such a fundamental force of nature, right, Like

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Speaker 4: it's present in our everyday life. We spend a lot

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Speaker 4: of time thinking about gravity, right, how not to fall down,

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Speaker 4: how not to drop things, how to go up buildings,

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Speaker 4: how to go down buildings?

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Speaker 3: Right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: It seems like one of the most important forces. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you ask people you know, to name a force

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Speaker 1: or what kind of forces the experience in their life.

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Speaker 1: Gravity is the one that's present in their lives. Right,

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Speaker 1: you're climbing upstairs, you're fighting gravity. You trip, you fall down,

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Speaker 1: you're feeling gravity. You look around you. The shape of

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Speaker 1: things is controlled by gravity. And that's why it's particularly

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Speaker 1: strange that gravity is the weakest force of all the

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Speaker 1: forces we've discovered. It's by far the weakest.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really strange to hear you say that, Like,

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Speaker 4: how can gravity be weak? Like you know, like it's

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Speaker 4: it's keeping the whole Earth together, it's making the entire

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Speaker 4: planet swing around, going a circle basically. Right, Without gravity,

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Speaker 4: we would just shoot off into space.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: It's a really strange situation. And there's other things about

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Speaker 1: gravity we don't understand as well. It's really strange. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't play well with the other forces. It's very, very weak.

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Speaker 1: It's a total mystery to science, except that we have

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Speaker 1: a theory which works beautifully. Right, we can calculate exactly

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Speaker 1: how mercury orbits the sun. We can send things into

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Speaker 1: outer space and know with to millimeter precision exactly where

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Speaker 1: they're going to land. We have a working theory that

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Speaker 1: we can use, right, but we don't understand it on

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Speaker 1: a conceptual level. We have these basic, deep questions about

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Speaker 1: about what havity is and how the universe works because

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 4: So it's a weird question, and maybe one of the

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Speaker 4: people hadn't thought about it before. So Daniel went out

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Speaker 4: as usual and asked people on the street, why do

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Speaker 4: you think gravity is so weak?

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Speaker 1: Here's what a random selection of folks who were willing

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Speaker 1: to talk to me on a Tuesday morning had to

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Speaker 1: say about gravity.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I should don't know about that, all right.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was a pretty strong force.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because it depends on the distance and it's long

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Speaker 4: range one, so that's why we feel it very weak

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Speaker 4: most of the time.

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Speaker 5: Cool, No, okay, I have no I'm sorry, it's not

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Speaker 5: very fruitful.

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Speaker 4: Hmmm. I have no idea, but I'd be interested in

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Speaker 4: finding out why. All right, that was that was pretty good.

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Speaker 4: Most people weren't surprised when you said gravity's weak.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like of all the questions I asked people,

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Speaker 1: this is the one that flummixed them the most. You know,

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Speaker 1: people were like, what I have no idea, or they

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Speaker 1: had crazy ideas.

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Speaker 3: Why must be weak?

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Speaker 1: I feel like usually we get one person who knows

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Speaker 1: what the answer is or has a good clue about

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Speaker 1: what's going on. This time, I feel like almost everybody

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Speaker 1: was pretty clueless. I mean, one person said I always

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Speaker 1: thought gravity was pretty strong, right, which kind of sums

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Speaker 1: up the situation.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Gravity is omnipresent in our lives. It dominates our experience,

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Speaker 1: and yet it's so weak compared to the other really

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Speaker 1: powerful forces we've discovered.

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Speaker 4: Well, some people a couple of answers were that it

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Speaker 4: had to do with distance, Like gravity gets really weak

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Speaker 4: with distance.

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Speaker 1: That's right, And the problem there is that all the

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Speaker 1: forces get weak with distance, like electromagnetism also falls as

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Speaker 1: a distance grows. Right, So all of these forces follow

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Speaker 1: this one over our squared rule or are as your

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Speaker 1: distance from the things that's giving.

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Speaker 4: You the force, right, maybe maybe right?

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Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, mostly we think And so that can't be

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Speaker 1: the answer, right, because all the other forces have that

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Speaker 1: same feature.

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Speaker 4: So when you say it's the weak, is it's not

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Speaker 4: that it changes over top distances differently than the other forces.

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Speaker 3: That's right to me.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we should talk about what the forces are and

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Speaker 1: compare them to each other so folks can get an

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Speaker 1: understanding of how crazy weak gravity is.

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Speaker 4: Right. So, Daniel, what are the forces of nature besides

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Speaker 4: a bad movie with Ben Affleck and Center Bullet.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think comedy. Comedy is definitely a force of nature.

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Speaker 1: You know, it solves big problems around the world. Now,

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Speaker 1: the fundamental forces are electromagnetism, right, that's the one that

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Speaker 1: controls electricity and magnetism obviously, and is responsible for the

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Speaker 1: cool things like light and lightning and all that cool stuff.

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Speaker 1: And then there's the weak nuclear force, which is a

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Speaker 1: force which is responsible for radioactive decay of a nuclei.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: And the cool thing about electricity and magnetism and the

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Speaker 1: weak nuclear force is that we actually have shown that

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Speaker 1: there are two sides of the same coin. As a

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Speaker 1: particle physicist, we refer to them as one force. We

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Speaker 1: call it the electro week. So sort of magnetism lost

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Speaker 1: out there in the name merger, right, it should be

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Speaker 1: electromagnet weak. But nobody voted to keep magnetism in the

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Speaker 1: sort of the name of the partners in a law firm.

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Speaker 4: Nobody lobbied for weak electro.

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Speaker 3: Or magneto weak force. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, again we are suffering the fate of some anonymous

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Speaker 1: committee of scientists that get to name these things.

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Speaker 3: Right, who are these people?

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Speaker 4: Probably some grad student, right or some you know, like

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Speaker 4: this is really weird, we'll call it this.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we have electricity and magnetism, which is a single force.

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Speaker 1: We have the weak nuclear force, which is really should

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Speaker 1: be combined with electricity and magnetism. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: strong nuclear force, and this is the one that holds

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Speaker 1: the nucleus together. You know, the nucleus is of just

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Speaker 1: a bunch of positively charged protons and neutral neutrons, right,

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Speaker 1: So it's only positively charged particles in the nucleus. So

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Speaker 1: you might think, what it even holds the nucleus together, right,

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Speaker 1: you have all this positively charged stuff should be repelling themselves. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's the strong nuclear force, and it does so by

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Speaker 1: exchanging these crazy little particles we call gluons, and that

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Speaker 1: holds the nucleus together, and it's pretty strong. It's even

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Speaker 1: stronger than electromagnetism.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's take a step back. So in the universe

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Speaker 4: there's stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's like, yes, firm that there is stuff in the universe. Yes,

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Speaker 1: without reservation, there is stuff.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad we saw that question. But I mean it's

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Speaker 4: like there's stuff that has substance to it, that has

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Speaker 4: mass to it, or you know that it sort of exists.

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Speaker 4: And then there's also besides that, how these things interact

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Speaker 4: with each other, like how they affect each other.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: There's the matter and then there's the forces. Right, the

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Speaker 1: forces affect how they interact with each other.

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Speaker 4: And that's pretty much the universe. That's that's like, it's

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Speaker 4: matter and forces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, one way to look at the universe is that

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Speaker 1: it's particles, right, or you would say matter and their forces.

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Speaker 1: In modern particle physics, we think about one level deeper,

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Speaker 1: which is we think of quantum fields, and quantum fields

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Speaker 1: are responsible both for matter and for forces. So we

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Speaker 1: can talk about that maybe in another podcast. What is

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Speaker 1: a quantum field? And how can I get one? You know,

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Speaker 1: for lease or rent? What can they do for me?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it's it's fair still to think

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Speaker 1: about the universe in terms of particles and forces.

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Speaker 4: On that note, let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 4: There are only four kinds of forces.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are four kinds of forces. So electromagnetism, weak

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Speaker 1: nuclear force, strong nuclear force, and then of course gravity. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's the fourth force that we've discovered.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: The fascinating thing is that different particles feel different forces, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: some particles feel this set of forces. Some particles feel

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Speaker 1: those set of force for example, right, particles with electric

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Speaker 1: charge feel electromagnetism.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: The electron, for example, is negatively charged, the proton is

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Speaker 1: positively charged. You bring them close together, they're gonna pull

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Speaker 1: on each other. They're gonna stuck each other together, right,

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Speaker 1: because they have opposite charges.

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Speaker 3: We all know that.

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Speaker 1: But you bring a neutral particle nearby, it just totally

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Speaker 1: ignores it, right, It doesn't feel it at all. Right, Right,

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Speaker 1: It's like it's like somebody's walking through a crowd of

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Speaker 1: people shouting, but they have headphones on, so they can't

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Speaker 1: hear anything.

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Speaker 3: They're totally oblivious to it.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of like how we talked about in a

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Speaker 4: previous podcast. They're almost like languages or like social media platforms.

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Speaker 4: Like some people are on Twitter, some people are on Facebook,

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Speaker 4: but some people are not on this. And so if

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Speaker 4: somebody if you're not on Twitter and somebody sends your tweet,

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Speaker 4: you're not gonna get it. And so it's just different

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Speaker 4: ways that particles interact.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Gravity is the Google plus social media, right, because nobody

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Speaker 1: uses the tred it's ancient but powerless. Yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: different particles feel different forces. And for example, an electron,

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Speaker 1: while it feels electromagnetism because it has a negative charge,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't feel the strong force at all. It will

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Speaker 1: pass right by a bunch of particles that are really

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Speaker 1: tugging on each other with a strong force and not

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Speaker 1: be affected at all. Whereas quarks, quarks feel all the forces.

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Speaker 1: They feel a strong force, which is how they get

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Speaker 1: pulled together in the nucleus. Remember protons and neutrons are

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Speaker 1: made of quarks. Quarks feel electromagnetism because they have electric charge.

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Speaker 1: They feel the weak force. They also feel gravity, of course,

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Speaker 1: because they have masks. So quarks get their fingers in everything.

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Speaker 4: They get the feels for everything.

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Speaker 1: They feel everything that's right, They got the strong feels.

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Speaker 1: Quarks they're really deeply emotional part of that. And on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the spectrum you got things like neutrinos.

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Speaker 1: The trinos don't have electric charge, so they ignore all

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Speaker 1: tricity and magnetism. Right, they don't interact with light, they're invisible.

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Speaker 1: They pass right through anything that They ignore electromagnetic bonds,

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Speaker 1: so they pass through most materials. They don't feel the

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Speaker 1: strong force. The only way they interact is with the

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Speaker 1: weak force. And the weak force is pretty weak, which

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Speaker 1: is why neutrinos can mostly just pass through matter unaffected.

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Speaker 4: So we have four fundamental forces, right, and gravity is

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Speaker 4: one of these forces. And so when you say that

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Speaker 4: gravity is weak, you actually mean it's weak compared to

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Speaker 4: these other three forces.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And so the ranking is the strong force is the strongest,

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Speaker 1: so that one is actually well named. Congratulations, you know,

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Speaker 1: anonymous group of scientists. Yeah, we should be called the

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Speaker 1: as of twenty eighteen, currently known to be the strongest

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Speaker 1: force force. Right after that comes electromagnetism, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we know that force is pretty powerful. You stick your

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Speaker 1: finger in the socket, you're going to feel the wrath

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Speaker 1: of electromagnetism.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 3: It's not an unfamiliar feeling.

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Speaker 4: Right, try to stick your in anything, you feel it, right,

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Speaker 4: because it's electromagnetism is the force that keeps you from

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Speaker 4: basically passing through the table or passing through your car.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Because electromagnetism is the basis of chemical bonds, right, and

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Speaker 1: chemical bonds are really the thing that form the structure

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Speaker 1: of your body. You think of your body is like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of particles, but it's held together by all

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Speaker 1: these forces. It's like a chain link fence binding together

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Speaker 1: these little particles that prevents you from passing through something else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we got the strong force, and then electromagnetism, and

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Speaker 1: then actually the weak nuclear force. Right, this is the

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Speaker 1: force that like powers neutrinos and radioactive decay. It's much

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Speaker 1: weaker than electromagnetism and much weaker than the strong force.

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Speaker 4: Even weaker than the weak is gravity.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: If you make a list like strong force, electromagnetism in

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Speaker 1: the weak force, then you should leave like one hundred

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Speaker 1: blank pages, and then you get to gravity. Because when

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Speaker 1: we compare these forces, we put things like an equal

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Speaker 1: distance apart, and we compare the strength of the forces.

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Speaker 1: Gravity is ten to the thirty six times weaker than

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Speaker 1: the weak force. That's ten with thirty six zeros in

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Speaker 1: front of it.

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Speaker 4: But isn't that sort of a matter of units or scale?

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Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean? Like, it's much weaker,

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Speaker 4: but only if you compare apples to apples, right, orange oranges?

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: But put two protons next to each other, rightm hm.

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Speaker 1: Two protons have a certain amount of mass and a

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Speaker 1: certain amount of electric charge, and the force of their

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Speaker 1: charges is going to be much much stronger than the

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Speaker 1: force from their masses.

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Speaker 4: Oh I see.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, if everything was much much more massive, then

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Speaker 1: there would be stronger gravity. But you can compare these

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Speaker 1: things apples to apples by comparing them at you know,

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Speaker 1: the same distance and the same basic unit of interaction.

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Speaker 4: Right, But what if you take an apple put it

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Speaker 4: next to another apple?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think you can do that experiment. Nothing's going

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Speaker 1: to happen because gravity is so weak. Right, you don't

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Speaker 1: see two apples like pulling themselves together on the counter, right,

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Speaker 1: they built in apple collider. You know, the apples are

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Speaker 1: not drawn to each other. Gravity is a super weak force,

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Speaker 1: and you can see this yourself. Right, you can do

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Speaker 1: an experiment where you counter the entire gravitational force of

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Speaker 1: an enormous celestial body like the Earth. Right, take a

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Speaker 1: small kitchen magnet and use it to hold up a nail,

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Speaker 1: and think about what's happening there. Right, You have the

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Speaker 1: nails being pulled down by every single rock in the Earth.

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Speaker 1: It's pulling with all of its gravity. But a tiny

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Speaker 1: little kitchen magnet totally overcomes that.

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Speaker 4: It can lift a nail even though it's pulling. It's

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Speaker 4: being pulled down by the whole entire planet Earth.

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Speaker 3: Right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And now imagine a magnet the size of the Earth, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean that would be that would be extraordinarily powerful.

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00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 1: And so you have basically like a gravitational blob the

385
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Speaker 1: size of the Earth. Still pretty ineffective compared to electromagnetism.

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Speaker 4: Hmmm, So it's weak if you sort of compare it

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00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 4: by object. Like you said, if you take a proton

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00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,480
Speaker 4: and put an extra proton, the force are going to

389
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 4: feel from electromagnetism is so much bigger than the gravity

390
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 4: they're going to feel towards each other, the same with

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Speaker 4: like two electrons or two quarks and things. So in

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Speaker 4: the scale of like the particles that we know, it's

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Speaker 4: a really.

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Speaker 1: Weak force, that's right, exactly, And yet and yet it

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Speaker 1: seems to dominate, right. That's a bit of a puzzle, Like,

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Speaker 1: on one hand, it's super duper weak and we're telling

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Speaker 1: you that it hardly counts for anything. On the other hand,

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Speaker 1: it's responsible for the structure of the Solar System, man

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Speaker 1: for the galaxy, and it's the reason the universe looks

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Speaker 1: the way it is, right, right, And so that can

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Speaker 1: be confusing to people, Like how do you reconcile those

402
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: two things in your head?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like why doesn't the Earth feel an electromagnetic force

404
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Speaker 4: with the Sun, which it would be so much bigger

405
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Speaker 4: than the force of gravity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we it would be pretty shocking.

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Speaker 1: And that's actually the reason is gravity is different from

408
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Speaker 1: the other forces and that it can't be canceled out

409
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,359
Speaker 1: right if there was some huge electrostatic difference between the

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Speaker 1: Sun and the Earth. Like a bunch of positive charges

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Speaker 1: there and a bunch of negative charges here. It would

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Speaker 1: create such an enormous force that it would be very

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Speaker 1: quickly balanced.

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Speaker 3: Like that's what lightning is. Right.

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Speaker 1: When there's a charge differential between clouds and the ground,

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00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:08,159
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't take that much before those charges want

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Speaker 1: to rearrange themselves to a lower energy configuration. They rush

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Speaker 1: down to the ground, or they rush up to the clouds,

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Speaker 1: or they jump from cloud cloud to balance themselves out.

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Speaker 1: Because you have two kinds of charges, you have positive

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Speaker 1: and you have negative, so you can find an arrangement

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Speaker 1: where basically everybody's happy. It's an equilibrium, right, But that's

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Speaker 1: not true for gravity.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I get it. So for example, if the Earth

425
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Speaker 4: was every particle on Earth had a positive electromagnetic charge,

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Speaker 4: and every particle in the Sun had a negative electromagnetic charge,

427
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Speaker 4: there would be a humongous pull from electromagnetism, pulling the

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Speaker 4: Earth into the Sun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'd be toast pretty quick. Yeah, a long lived experiment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it would be huge. Even the opposite, if we

431
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Speaker 4: were all positive and the Sun was all positive, we

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Speaker 4: would get shot out of the Solar system very quickly.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And that's why you know, early days of the Solar

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Speaker 1: system being formed, you have these gases and the gas

436
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Speaker 1: and dust coalescing and very rapidly things neutralize, right, because

437
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Speaker 1: anything that feels an electrostatic force to something else is

438
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Speaker 1: going to find the opposite charge and they're going to

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Speaker 1: coalesce and they're going to make something neutral.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's why most of the things around you are neutral. Right,

442
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: Most of the elements are neutral, because any deviation from

443
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 1: neutral results in a powerful force to neutralize it.

444
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 4: So, thankfully, the Earth is made out of both like

445
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 4: equal amounts of positive and negative.

446
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 3: Particles, right, that's right.

447
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 4: Thankfully we're sort of balanced electromagnetically, and so even if

448
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 4: the Sun was all positive, we would look like neutral,

449
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 4: like a neutral ball to the Sun.

450
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

451
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 1: Where on large scales the Earth is neutral, right, I

452
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,120
Speaker 1: mean there might be some residual positive or negative charge

453
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: depending on the solar wind, et cetera. But basically the

454
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: Earth is neutral, and so the largest force of the

455
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: Earth feels is the gravity from the Sun. Even though

456
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: gravity is super dup or weak, right, it doesn't take

457
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,680
Speaker 1: a lot to counteract gravity. But it's the only player

458
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: left because everybody else is sort of pair it up

459
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 1: and danced off for the night, and gravity's just there

460
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: left hold in the bag, and gravity can't be balanced.

461
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 3: Right.

462
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: You feel gravity if you have any mass, right, it

463
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: is only positive masses and no such thing as a

464
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,400
Speaker 1: negative mass to give anti gravity.

465
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 3: Wow.

466
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 4: Well, let's keep going, but first let's take a quick break.

467
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

468
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

469
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite.

470
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 1: But the people in the dairy industry are. US dairy

471
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

472
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

473
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

474
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,880
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

475
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

476
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

477
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US dairy

478
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

479
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

480
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

481
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

482
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

483
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

484
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,359
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

485
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: us dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

486
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 5: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

487
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,919
Speaker 5: the roads every day. Remember they are real people with

488
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,360
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489
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,359
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490
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,840
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491
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509
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Speaker 4: Okay, So that's how gravity is so much weaker than

510
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 4: the other forces. So how's it different than the other

511
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 4: three forces of nature?

512
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 3: There's like no end to waste.

513
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: Gravity is weird, you know, there's no end to like

514
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: the puzzles of gravity is fascinating.

515
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 4: Bottomless pit.

516
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: That's right, it's a black hole of questions. And one

517
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 1: of my favorites is just that we have no way

518
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: to sort of fit gravity in with the way the

519
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: universe works. According to everything else, you know, we talked

520
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: earlier about how we have particles and we have forces

521
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: or quantum fields equivalently, and that's a really successful way

522
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: to describe the universe. You know, we have the Large

523
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: Hadron Collider to explore these things really high energies, and

524
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: we've understood all sorts of things using this theory. But

525
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: that theory is used as quantum mechanics. So the way

526
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: we describe interactions, you know, the way we talk about

527
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: two electrons repelling each other, or the way lightning is

528
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: formed or anything, involves passing quantum particles back and forth.

529
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: And that's just not true for gravity.

530
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 4: What does that mean? Passing particles back and forth? Like

531
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 4: when like if I have two magnets and they're attracted

532
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 4: to each other, they're not. They're not It's not like

533
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 4: an invisible telekinesis pull on each other. They're actually swapping

534
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 4: particles and I can't see that is that kind of

535
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 4: what do you mean?

536
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I mean. That the way two things

537
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: interact via some force is by exchanging particles. And so

538
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: for example, electromagnetism, right, is the force behind a magnet,

539
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: and the way electromagnetism works, we think at a sort

540
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: of microscopic particle level, is that there's a particle that

541
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: transmits that force, that sends sort of the information back

542
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: and forth between two things that are feeling it. And

543
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: in the case of electromagnetism, that particle is the photon. Right,

544
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: the particle is also a packet of light. So each

545
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: of the quantum forces that we talked about before electromagnetism,

546
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: the weak force and the strong force, each of them

547
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: have a particle we associate with it. And that's not

548
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: just like some name tag we put on and say, hey,

549
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: you get this one, you get this one. We think

550
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: that that's the particle that's responsible for making the force work.

551
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: So when two electrons come near each other, how do

552
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 1: they repel each other? How does that actually happen. Well,

553
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: we think that they send photons out right, the electric

554
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: field of a moving electron, right, An accelerating electron generates photons,

555
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: and those photons interact with the other electrons, and so

556
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: basically the passing messages back and forth using these quantum particles.

557
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 4: So gravity is weird because we don't know that there

558
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 4: is a quantum particle being exchanged when two things get

559
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: attracted gravitationally.

560
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: That's right.

561
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: So we have this great framework. We say, oh, maybe

562
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: all forces are quantum mechanical fields interacting with each other. Right,

563
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: Let's apply that to the electromagnetic field. Yeah it works.

564
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Let's apply that to the weak force. Yeah it works.

565
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 1: Let's apply to the strong force. Ooh, cool, it works.

566
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: Maybe this is something deep about the way the universe works.

567
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: Let's apply it to gravity. Uh oh, it doesn't work, right,

568
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,679
Speaker 1: So what does that mean? What does it mean when

569
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: I say it doesn't work?

570
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: Well?

571
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: For a theory to work, it has to provide predictions

572
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: for experiments. You have to be able to say, okay, theory,

573
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: what would happen in this configuration if I shot a

574
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: proton and another part predict what would happen, and then

575
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: you can go off and do the experiments and compare it.

576
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 3: Right.

577
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: Well, when you do that for gravity, you try to

578
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: form a quantum theory of gravity, it doesn't work. You

579
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: get nonsense answers. You get answers like infinity right, or

580
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: things disappear, or it just it doesn't mathematically function. Like,

581
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: there's no way to build a theory of gravity that

582
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: we've discovered so far that works, that actually explains the

583
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: way these things happen. There are a few candidates out

584
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: there there pretty far from being a functional theory of

585
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: quantum gravity, things like loop quantm gravity or string theory.

586
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: But the basic problem is that quantum mechanics and general relativity,

587
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: which is our best theory of gravity, do not play

588
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: well together, and we have no functioning quantum theory of gravity.

589
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 4: H So does that mean that we don't have the

590
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 4: right theory or is that gravity is just not quantum

591
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 4: in nature?

592
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: That's exactly the question we don't know the answer to.

593
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: Right in one hundred years from now, somebody will know

594
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: the answer to that, I hope, and they'll look back

595
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: and they'll wonder. You know, those guys see the clues,

596
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: but we don't know. It could be that there is

597
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: a quantum theory gravity. We're just not smart enough to

598
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: think it up yet, right, Like the right person hasn't

599
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: been born yet to put the math together, or maybe

600
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: it requires a different kind of math that we're using. Right,

601
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: there's some assumption we're making that's a mistake.

602
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 4: Or maybe just giving it a wrong name, like maybe

603
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 4: it should be gravit tunis or.

604
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: Gravitinos, gravitas that's taken exactly.

605
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 3: That's definitely the problem.

606
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: That's step number one, when we made a mistake in

607
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: step number one, when we could define the particle. The

608
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: other option, of course, is that maybe gravity is not

609
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: a quantum force the way the other forces are. Right,

610
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: the other forces we call them quantum forces because they're

611
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: well described by quantum mechanics, but gravity is kind of different.

612
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the current theory we have a gravity general relativity.

613
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: It doesn't like to describe gravity as a force, right,

614
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 1: describes gravity instead as a bending of space. It says

615
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: that when you have mass somewhere in space, space no

616
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: longer becomes straight, becomes bent, right, so that things move

617
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: in curves and circles.

618
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 4: And it's not like an actual just a mathematical nuance

619
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 4: or a mathematical perspective. What really confirms it is the

620
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 4: idea that gravity can affect things that don't have mass.

621
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 3: Right.

622
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 4: That's how we know it's more than just a force

623
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: between things that have mass. It actually like affects space

624
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 4: for things that don't have mass.

625
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: Right, that's exactly right. So if you shoot a photon

626
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: through space that has mass nearby, the photon will not

627
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: move in what we consider to be a straight line, right,

628
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: it'll find a path through this bent space that involves

629
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: basically curving. And this is what Einstein predicted with his theory,

630
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,959
Speaker 1: and they saw it, you know. And you can see

631
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: in space it's called gravitational lensing. You can see photons

632
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: get bent by heavy objects. And it's because, as you say,

633
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: the heavy objects are bending space itself.

634
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: Right, It's not like gravity is pulling the photon because

635
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 4: the photon doesn't have any mass.

636
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: Right, that's right, the photon doesn't have any mass.

637
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, So that's how it's like gravity seems to affect

638
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 4: things that don't have sort of its fundamental property, you know,

639
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 4: like electromanetic forces can affect something that does not have

640
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 4: an electric charge.

641
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 3: That's true.

642
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 4: Gravity can affecting everything else.

643
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 6: Right.

644
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a pretty deep insight there.

645
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 4: Not bad for a cartoonist, not at all.

646
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a fascinating way to think about it. I

647
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: think that's totally correct.

648
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

649
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: And so if gravity is instead of being a force,

650
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: if it's a way we change the shape of space itself, then.

651
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: Maybe that's why we don't have a quantum theory of it. Right.

652
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: And that's amazing and it's fantastic and it's exciting. And

653
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: another reason why we have a hard time bringing these

654
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: two things together is that quantum mechanics, the theory we've

655
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: developed only works so far in flat space. That is,

656
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: if there's really heavy stuff nearby, we don't know how

657
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: to do those quantum calculations. We can basically only do

658
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics in places where there isn't really strong gravity.

659
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 4: So wait, it's a quantum physics doesn't work in reality basically?

660
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: Is that what you're saying, Like, it doesn't work in

661
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 4: the space that we actually live in.

662
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: Well, it works basically everywhere except for close to black holes.

663
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: Mm right, you need basically a black hole have enough

664
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: gravity to break down quantum mechanics, because it's when when

665
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: space gets really distorted that you start to see the

666
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: effects of gravity on space, and then it becomes comparable

667
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: to the strength of other stuff, and that's when that's

668
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 1: when quantum mechanics breaks down.

669
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, quantum quantum field theory works.

670
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: Basically what we call flat space, whereas gravity bends space.

671
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 4: Wow, so earlier when we categorize gravity as part of

672
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 4: these four fundamental forces, maybe that's just the wrong approach.

673
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 4: Maybe you know, do you know what I mean? Like,

674
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: maybe we shouldn't be categorizing these four things as one

675
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: category of quote forces.

676
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: That's right.

677
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 1: It could be could be that there is no quantum

678
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: theory of gravity as a fundamental force because it isn't one. Yeah,

679
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: and it's just a feature of space, right, Absolutely, that's

680
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: one possible explanation. But then we still need a way

681
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: to make quantum mechanics work in bent space, right, And

682
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: we still need to understand how to make our theory

683
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: of general relativity play well with quantum mechanics, because we

684
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: think quantum mechanics describes the universe, right, and general relativity

685
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: is not a quantized theory.

686
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 3: It's it's continuous, right.

687
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: It treats space and everything as if it's infinitely divisible.

688
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 3: Right, it's not a quantum theory at all.

689
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: In fact that it came about before quantum mechanics was

690
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: even invented. And so while the basic tenets of it

691
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: how it distorted space are probably correct, I mean, been

692
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 1: verified to zillion degrees of accuracy, it doesn't feel like

693
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: it can be a fundamental description of nature because it's

694
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: not quantum mechanical.

695
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 4: So, like we want to call it a force because

696
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 4: it seems to move things like all the other forces,

697
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 4: but it's maybe it's not a force. Maybe it's just

698
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 4: kind of like some other weird property of space.

699
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

700
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 1: You know, maybe we've been trying to put a round

701
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: peg into a square hole all these years.

702
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 4: A gravity peg in a quantum hole.

703
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. And there are other ways that

704
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: people are trying to solve this problem. Like one way

705
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: is thinking that maybe gravity is a fundamental force, but

706
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: it just works a little bit differently from the other forces.

707
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: For example, people think about how the universe might have

708
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: additional spatial dimensions, you know, like instead of just being

709
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: able to move in three directions, maybe there's like four

710
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: or five six dimensions that you can move in. And

711
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: folks who are interested in that should listen to our

712
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: podcast on extra dimensions.

713
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 4: No, yeah, we did a whole episode on extra dimensions,

714
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: but we didn't sort of get into this particular topic.

715
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 4: So tell us how extra dimensions might explain why gravity

716
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 4: is so weak.

717
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, The idea is that maybe gravity isn't so weak.

718
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: Maybe gravity is just as strong as all the other forces.

719
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,399
Speaker 1: But if there's a whole other set of dimensions out there,

720
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: that's ways directions that think can move. It might be

721
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 1: that gravity is the only thing that feels those dimensions, right.

722
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: It might be that those dimensions are invisible to electromagnetism

723
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: and to the weak force into the strong force, but

724
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: visible to gravity. And what that means is that gravity

725
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: might be basically leaking out into those other dimensions. You know,

726
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: we talked about how the farther away you get from something,

727
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: the weaker the forces. So like Mercury feels the force

728
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: of the Sun's gravity much more strongly than Pluto does. Right,

729
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: irrelevanti of whether or not you call it a planet,

730
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel gravity very strongly. And that's because it's

731
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: further from the Sun, right. I mean that goes like

732
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: one over are squared or are is the distance it's

733
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: one of our squared because we have three dimensions. If

734
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: we had six dimensions, it would be one over R five, right,

735
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: which falls much more rapidly. So if there are additional

736
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: dimensions out there, okay, and only gravity feels them, then

737
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: that might be the reason why gravitational force falls so quickly.

738
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: Maybe gravity's actually just as strong as everything else when

739
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: you get really really close. But then these extra dimensions exist,

740
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: and most of gravity leaks out into those other dimensions.

741
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 4: Oh, sort of like between you and me. There's not

742
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 4: just the three dimensions between you and me. May there

743
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 4: are other secret hidden spaces kind of between you and

744
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 4: me or these other dimensions.

745
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: Exactly, other ways for gravity to spread out, all right, And.

746
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 4: So gravity would be like just as strong as all

747
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 4: the other forces, but it's just flessing its muscles in

748
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 4: these other spaces that we can't see or feel exactly.

749
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, if somebody's at the center of

750
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: a crowd and they let go a really stinky far right.

751
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,800
Speaker 1: The people next to them they smell it strongly, and

752
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: the people further away they smell it much more weakly,

753
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: and people outside don't smell it at all.

754
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: Right, No, imagine the farts really suddenly butt's let's let's

755
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 4: go with it.

756
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm trying to make this accessible. You know, this

757
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 1: is something everybody can to appreciate.

758
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: Trying to make when I get it cut it.

759
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: But if there was somewhere else for that far to go,

760
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, if it could move not just sideways, but

761
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: also could float up right, so you had a really

762
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 1: tall room in the far floated up. Then people wouldn't

763
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: feel it as much because most of them far would

764
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: dissipate into the upper corners of the room, and so

765
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: gravity might be the same way. It might be that,

766
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: you know, for the first millimeters, so the first centimeters,

767
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: so gravity gets very weak, very quickly, it falls off

768
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 1: really rapidly, and that then you know, at normal distances

769
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: like a meter or ten meters or whatever, you don't

770
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: feel those other dimensions anymore because the other dimensions only

771
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: activate it really really short distances. This is the theory

772
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: people came up with, and we don't know if it's real.

773
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 1: You know, we've tested it so far. It seems like

774
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: gravity works the same way for galactic scales and for

775
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: earth scales, and for microscopic scales. It seems to always

776
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,320
Speaker 1: fall off at the same rate as a function of distance.

777
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 1: So nobody's ever seen any evidence of these extra dimensions.

778
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 1: But it's a fascinating theory and it's a you know,

779
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: it's one that would give kind of a natural explanation

780
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: for why gravity would fall off so quickly and why

781
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: gravity is so weak.

782
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 3: It wouldn't explain all these other things.

783
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 4: But in fact, people sort of try to use gravity

784
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 4: to see if there are other dimensions, right.

785
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. It would be a really cool clue,

786
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: right if. And that's a fascinating way that science has done.

787
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: You know, you try to look at everything around you

788
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: and see if you can fit it all into one framework, Like,

789
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: can I use this one set of ideas to describe

790
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: everything right onto one set of concepts?

791
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. In my fart theory of the universe.

792
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: The best possible way I think to unravel this is

793
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: to actually go visit a black hole, because quantum mechanics

794
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: and general relativity tell you very different things about what's

795
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: happening inside a black hole. Right, As we said before,

796
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: general relativity tells you it's an infinite testimal dot of

797
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: almost infinite density. Quantum mechanics says, you know, the universe

798
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: is quantized first of all, so you can't have infinite

799
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: testimal dots. And also this sort of a minimum size

800
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: to stuff, right, and you can't have all that stuff

801
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: compressed in such a tiny little area. And so if

802
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 1: you could see inside a black hole, you would learn

803
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: a lot about gravity.

804
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 4: So what would be the plan You would go into

805
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 4: a black hole, you would observe and discover how the

806
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 4: universe works, and then and then you'd be stuck there.

807
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,959
Speaker 1: That's right, they would have to send your Nobel prize

808
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 1: into the black hole after that. I just assume you'd

809
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 1: figured it out and cause the Nobel Prize into space

810
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: into the black hole. Anybod who's listening, please do not

811
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: go into a black hole. Please please do not go

812
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 1: into a black hole. But you know, we don't need

813
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: to visit black holes. We could try to create them

814
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 1: here on Earth.

815
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 4: That sounds like a great idea.

816
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, doesn't that sound like a great idea.

817
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 4: I mean I'm excited make it.

818
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 3: So, Yeah, let's create a black hole and study it.

819
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: Right, if gravity gets really really powerful when you get

820
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: to really short distances because of this extra dimension theory,

821
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 1: then it might be that if you shoot two protons

822
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: together really really hard and they get really really close

823
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: to each other, that you can create a super duper

824
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: mini extra cute, little fuzzy black hole. Right, I'm trying

825
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: to make it sound like a cozy.

826
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 4: Thing, not a yeah, you're trying to sell it, right.

827
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,399
Speaker 1: And so before we turned on the large Hadron collide

828
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: about ten years ago, people thought maybe by smashing these

829
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: protons together, we could actually create a black holes and

830
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: we could study them. We can reveal the deep secrets

831
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: of gravity.

832
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 4: Right hmmm, So then the idea would be to try

833
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 4: to make them at the Large Hadron Collider and just

834
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 4: can of see what happens. Mm hm, like, does it

835
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 4: tell us something about gravity or quantum physics at the

836
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: same time.

837
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. By seeing how often they're made and how

838
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: strong they are, and what they turned into and whether

839
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: they decay, we could understand something about the way black holes.

840
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: Work, and that would have been really powerful.

841
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: But unfortunately or fortunately, depending on hy feel above black holes,

842
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 1: we haven't made any black holes at the Large Hadron

843
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: Collider that we've discovered.

844
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 4: But maybe isn't it true that maybe you've made them

845
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 4: but they evaporate.

846
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: Yes, these black holes would be very short lived, but

847
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: you know, everything we make at the Large Hadron Collider

848
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: is really short lived. These things last for like ten

849
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: to the negative thirty seconds or ten to the negative

850
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: twenty three seconds. We're pretty good at seeing short lived

851
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: stuff because it usually blows up into other things, and

852
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: a black hole would have a really unusual signature in

853
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: our detectors. It would be pretty clear to see if

854
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 1: we had made them.

855
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 4: Okay, but short of going into a black hole or

856
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 4: detecting farts and extra dimensions, we may not know in

857
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 4: the near future what makes gravity so different.

858
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: That's right, it's going to take some work. I mean.

859
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: The other direction, is theoretical, is to build up a

860
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: theory of quantum gravity sort of from the bottom up, like.

861
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 4: Start from the beauty of math and physics, and then

862
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 4: try to build it up to our level exactly.

863
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: And that's that's a wonderful way to do, is to say, like,

864
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: maybe the universe works in this way its most basic

865
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: fundamental nature, and build it up from there and see

866
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: if you can describe the universe that we see around us.

867
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 3: Wow.

868
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 4: All right, well that's pretty shocking to think gravity is

869
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 4: such a place, such a big role in our lives,

870
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 4: and yet it's like the weakling in the universe, right,

871
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 4: It's like image, imagine if if gravity was stronger, life

872
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 4: would be a lot more chaotic, right and crazy?

873
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

874
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: We would be closer to the sun and everything, we

875
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: would feel more intense. It's fascinating to me that gravity

876
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: has been a mystery to physics for hundreds of years.

877
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it was the focus of Isaac Newton's studies.

878
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 3: You know, like.

879
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: Hundreds of years ago people working on gravity, and still today,

880
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: even though we've made so much progress in terms of gravity,

881
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: we still have so much, so many basic questions about

882
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 1: it that we don't know the answers.

883
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 3: To, not even the really beginning of how to answer them.

884
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: To me, that's fascinating.

885
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: Gravity is such a rich source of mystery for physics

886
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: and for everybody.

887
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 4: Wow, all right, cool, I think it's maybe time to

888
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 4: push down this question. Thanks for joining us.

889
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: If you still have a question after listening to all

890
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: these explanations, please drop us a line.

891
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 3: We'd love to hear from you.

892
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: You can find us at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at

893
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge that's one word, or email us at

894
00:42:48,840 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: Feedback at Danielandorge dot com. When you pop a piece

895
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking about

896
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: the environmental impact. But the people in the dairy industry are.

897
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: That's why they're working hard every day to find new

898
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and drive down

899
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: greenhouse gas emissions. How is us dairy tackling greenhouse gases?

900
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors to turn the methane from

901
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns, and

902
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 1: electric cars. Visit you as dairy dot COM's Last sustainability

903
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 1: to learn more.

904
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 2: As a United Explorer Card member, you can earn fifty

905
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 2: thousand bonus miles plus look forward to extraordinary travel rewards,

906
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: including a free checked bag, two times the miles on

907
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Speaker 2: United purchases and two times the miles on dining and

908
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Speaker 2: at hotels. Become an Explorer and seek out unforgettable places

909
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911
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912
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Speaker 3: Terms apply.

913
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 5: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on pass

914
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Speaker 5: and arrows roads every day. Remember they're real people with

915
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 5: loved ones who need them to get home safely. Protect

916
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 5: our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too.

917
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 3: Go safely.

918
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 5: California From the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans