1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie. Oh hey, this is Samantha, and 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: welcome to stuff. I've never told your protection of I 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: hear radio's how stuff works. I just waved at you. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: Did you notice this? I always notice when you wave everything. 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: I was like, hey, minutes before this, I appreciated it. Know, 6 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: it's like I'm not seeing you today. Yeah, well, I 7 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: am really grateful for the wave. And uh, it's it's 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: a positive thing. Thank you, And it kind of relates 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: to body positivity. Yeah. Well the word with the word 10 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: thank you, um, which is what we're talking about today. 11 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: And before we get into it, trigger warning for eating disorders, right. Uh. 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: And this this episode is sort of a continuation of 13 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: our episode that we did around what is Normal, and 14 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the pros and cons of 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: the body positivity movement and how it has been largely 16 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: usurped by corporations. Yeah, and we wanted to come back 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,559 Speaker 1: and talk a bit more because we definitely have had 18 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: conversations among ourselves as well as hearing from listeners about 19 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: the pros and cons of body positivity and the whole movement. 20 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: And we say this at the beginning, we're not here 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: to argue with people in their opinions of other people's bodies. 22 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: We're here to have a conversation of the bigger picture 23 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: of especially as the mentality that has always been an 24 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: underlying issue, and the ease of taking advantage of the 25 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: conversation for power or money. So with that definition definition 26 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: time body positivity our body pause essentially means accepting your 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: body and recognize that you're worth comes from somewhere else. 28 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you feel super positive about every part 29 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: of your body or super positive about your body all 30 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: the time. It doesn't mean you're not taking care of yourself. 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: Although ultimately a stranger's health isn't really your business. Yeah, 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: can we say that one more time, It is not 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: your old business. These days, because the body positivity waters 34 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: have gotten so muddied by corporations and the mainstream, some 35 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: prefer the term fat acceptance, our body acceptance, our body neutrality, 36 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: And we're going to get all into that um. But 37 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: first we wanted to look at why it matters. A 38 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: study of three eighteen students found that by the third 39 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: grade of American students reported wanting to be thinner, and 40 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: thirty seven percent had already tried to lose weight. So 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: third grade how old were you in third grade? Nine? Right? 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: Can we have that conversation? Have any hit puberty and 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: already talking about weight loss. I was trying to lose 44 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: weight in third grade, for sure. I was not eating. 45 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: I will say that was not me. But I think 46 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: that's partially because I'll still trying to learn English, so yes, 47 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, and trying to fit in with white People's 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: another part of this and why it matters is not 49 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: being believed at the doctor had a whole episode on 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: that a while back. But your weight often is pointed 51 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,399 Speaker 1: to as the culprit for any medical issue. It's you're 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: dismissed as it's this, right. I was considering that this 53 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: because you know, I love some web m D and between. 54 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: I had some issues I told you a while ago 55 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 1: and everyone else that I was dying as well as 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: there's been an amazing problem with my hip or something 57 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: where I can't walk straight. But all of that had 58 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: something about weight, every single bit of it. It made 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: me really self conscious. Am I that that overweight is? 60 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: This is what the problem is? And having to go 61 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: back and forth about my health and having just went 62 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: to my um doctor and getting a physical a few 63 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: months ago, and nothing being a problem. So but still 64 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: because it's right there, that's the first thing that pops 65 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: into your mind. Yeah, and I had to go to 66 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: i mean years of physical therapy for what I've done 67 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: to myself. But they it was something that came up 68 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: for me as well, like maybe it's your way right, 69 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: what's right? What why? I've been running every day for 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: like twenty years? So wait, it's not twenty years. That's 71 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: a satuation, but it was a lunch a long time. 72 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: It's like a lemon is over a decade. Okay, but yes, 73 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: so not being believed at the doctor, as we said 74 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: in our past episode, this it directly leads to negative 75 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 1: health outcomes, including wrongful death. And I believe um the 76 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: average for a woman who is overweight it's nine years 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: to get diagnosed. It might be longer than that. UM 78 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: studies have found that medical professionals are more likely to 79 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: label fat patients as noncompliant, weak willed, or over indulgent 80 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: in their patient histories. Well, like, I'm just not sure 81 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 1: why that would be coming up. But another study found 82 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: that after a celebrity is fat shamed, a spike of 83 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: about nine women voiced an increase in anti fat thoughts 84 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: and attitudes. And yet another study found that hiring managers 85 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: were extremely harsh when judging overweight female candidate. Of the 86 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: descriptors given, these women were the most likely to be 87 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: described as lazy and ranked second to last and higher ability. 88 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: And there are no federal protections in place for weight discrimination. 89 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: I wonder what that would look like if we did 90 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: have federal protection. What would be the title of it? 91 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. Some good listeners out there, somebody, right, Yeah, 92 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: So when researching this, it was just fascinating just to 93 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: see the back and forth between how great this is 94 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: to how dangerous this is. There's a lot of opinion 95 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: and even revamping again as we said about instead of 96 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: by positivity, fat acceptance and the conversation and we'll talk 97 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: about you'll talk a little more about this later about 98 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: of privilege. What this looks like in having privileged in 99 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: your body shape? I guess is that Thord? Yeah? Yeah, 100 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: body shape? And I think it's so important to understand 101 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: health versus image expectations. We when we put it simply 102 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: the damage of the shame and control and not that 103 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: we need to reopen the conversation of mental health and 104 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: body dysmorphia. But there's this whole talk about going from 105 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: beyond just what you wanted to be, your expectations or 106 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: your overall seeing in the world, what you think is 107 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: a perfect body, or what you wish to look like, 108 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: or what you wish to have, or what you wish 109 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: you didn't have to be talking about the need for 110 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: self love and self care. And that's completely different than 111 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: just hey, I want to look better or I want 112 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: to accept better. And we wanted to share a brief 113 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: history of body positivity and the body positive movement. It 114 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: started out as a small radical sect part of the 115 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: fat acceptance movement in the nineteen sixties. The same decade 116 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: the National Association to Aid Fat Americans came together, and 117 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: the pioneers behind it were mostly black and queer. It 118 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: involved public protest against discrimination, capitalism, specifically against the diet 119 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: industry itself. It was about radical self love in the 120 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 1: face of all of this messaging trying to destroy it 121 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: when you had a body that was not traditionally beautiful, 122 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: that did not conform. Capitalism was telling you you are 123 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: a that you need to change how you look, and 124 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: you were saying no, screw you. Then skipping ahead to 125 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: and treatment for anorexia recovery. Uh, that's when we get 126 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: the phrase body positivity. A psychotherapist who had struggled with 127 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: an eating disorder herself founded the body positive dot org. 128 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: It's whole thing was shifting focus from disordered eating and 129 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 1: exercising um to achieve weight loss. To get it away 130 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: from that whole thing, Uh, take one of their core 131 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: competencies quote, uncover the messages that have influenced to your 132 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: relationships with your body, food and exercise and develop a 133 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: weight neutral, health centered approach to self care. To become 134 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,119 Speaker 1: the authority of your own body by sorting out facts 135 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: from distorted to set. I'll miss about health, weight and identity. 136 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: But what happens when the mainstream and particular corporations get 137 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: ahold of an idea without the proper context. We'll get 138 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: into that after a quick break for word from our sponsor, 139 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: and we're back, Thank you sponsor. So what is the 140 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: problem here? Why is it that when you search body 141 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: positivity most of the results on the top two pages 142 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: are the problem with body positivity? Right? The problem is 143 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: corporateica Just kidding but not really. Oh yeah, no, not 144 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: a joke. Just as corporations have made so much money 145 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: on dieting culture, self health culture, beauty culture. They know 146 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: what is trending and whole tight. I mean, they're smart 147 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: ass all. They know how it works. And even beyond that, 148 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: they monetize individuals. And I find that fascinating in itself. 149 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: How we become so caught up with individual names to 150 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: push us to some kind of idea or influence us 151 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: to buy these things. And and it's the YouTubers. Is 152 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: the social media influencers, which by the way, I didn't 153 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: know it was a thing until like six months ago, 154 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: which when we had a little thing, we had a 155 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: beer get together essentially, and it was influencers. And I 156 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: had no idea what that meant. And it meant they 157 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: had to have a certain amount of followings on certain 158 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: types of things that I'm like, what, who are you? 159 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: Are you so important that you get these great things? 160 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Is because you take a picture with an item and 161 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: people like it. I am I want to be one 162 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: of those. Recently I went through why I get to 163 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: bring it up again and when I was filling up 164 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: the like state media form, there was a section that 165 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: said what part of the media are you? And I 166 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: was fascinated because now there is an influencer section to 167 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: get funding to go visit a state. Through my mind, 168 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know you can do that. We're can I 169 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: find up for that? I thought that really cool. They're 170 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: an influencer. In two thousand four, and Dove launched their 171 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: very successful campaign for Real Beauty and Core mess of 172 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: which was women, you shouldn't feel bad about yourselves and 173 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: how you look. One of the most well known pieces 174 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: of this campaign was that commercial I remember this so well, 175 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: depicting a time lapse of photo shopping a woman and 176 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: to an almost unrecognizable perfect version of herself. The marketing 177 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: campaign escalated from there. Then there was the one where 178 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: the woman had to choose between a door that read 179 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: average over the top or the door that read beautiful. 180 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: Then there was the one where a woman had to 181 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 1: describe her face to a sketch artist and it becomes 182 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: apparent that she thinks she's hideous and her how she 183 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: sees herself doesn't match with reality, and the general public 184 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: opinion was like, yes, finally, just having someone pointed out 185 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: point out this insidious cultural problem earned Dove all of 186 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,239 Speaker 1: this praise, But who was to blame? They didn't name anybody. 187 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: They didn't point fingers to a bid bat a big 188 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: bad So women were, of course for thinking they were 189 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: ugly in the first place. Shame on you for feeling shame, 190 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: and Dove is here to save the day by our stuff, 191 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: please please, But it's not just of of course. Um. 192 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: Seeing the success, companies rushed into imitate it, um. And 193 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: the thing is, it's difficult, marketing wise to be in 194 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: the beauty industry without convincing people that they need something 195 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: to make themselves look a certain way. These companies helped 196 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: create that self hatred for our bodies and then picked 197 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: up on an opportunity to make more money from the 198 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: thing that they created, and they changed the conversation, all 199 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: the while washing their hands of any guilt. For instance, 200 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: some companies have plus size models in their campaigns but 201 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: offer no actual plus size clothing. They just know it's popular. Uh. 202 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: Fashion shows might do the same thing. It's the bare 203 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: minimum to look like they're changing when they are not. 204 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: It's still the same old blame game, but it's a 205 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: different bakeup. As say, it's a different lipstick you have 206 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: about the pig of the lipstick. Maybe I don't think so. 207 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: It's difficult to when your company depends on ads to 208 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: be critical of those companies. For instance, BuzzFeed had to 209 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: take a piece that was critical of Dove off because 210 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: they had AD space with Dove. And I can't tell you, 211 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: I wish I could. I can't tell you all the 212 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 1: back and forth that we go through on this show 213 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: with our ads teams. Yeah. I think just coming in 214 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: and having to sit down and listen before I even 215 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: started was kind of like, oh damn, this is the 216 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: whole thing. And it's like constant, I think, the whole 217 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: and then we have to be really really vigilant and 218 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: research everything they send us. Yeah. Yeah, and our ads 219 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: team they are saints and they feel like we've gone 220 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: through a journey together. They know so much about us 221 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: um and you'll probably hear ads for exercise nutrition apps 222 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: on this very episode, which again I like exercising and 223 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm all about building healthy habits, but I am aware 224 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: of all of these issues that go hand in hand 225 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: with being a feminist podcast and eating disorders and body 226 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: acceptance and the diet and fitness industry. I mean, like 227 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: that was even just beyond because it could be nothing 228 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: to do with fitness, but they represent something outside of 229 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: what we're talking about in fitness. I know we've had 230 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: a lot of that questions of doing um vitamin types 231 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: of things, and you know, all these that have really 232 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: nothing to do with necessarily fat and diet, but because 233 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: they may be a linkage to it, we're like, we can't, 234 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: we can't. Yeah, And that's back and forth, and it's 235 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: I feel like the big problem is a lot of 236 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: times I say, I don't want to talk anything about 237 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: weight loss. It's just that that's what the focus is. 238 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: That like, that's the only reason you could be wanting 239 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: to exercise or better habits, which if that is a 240 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: healthy side effect of being right, great, And I think 241 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: you and I have also talked about the vibe that 242 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: we hate having to have us back and forth. At 243 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 1: the same time, we can't be too hypocritical, because I 244 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: do you apps like that and I'm very conscious of 245 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: who I am. Of course, we talked previously about us 246 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: having a hard time with our own selves and having 247 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: our bodies and trying to maintain a balance for our 248 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: lives as being a part of this show as well 249 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: as being just women in general. And but the thing is, 250 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: like I do I think it's necessary. I wasn't healthy 251 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: for a very very long time, and that had a 252 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: lot to do with stress and stress eating and not 253 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: having the time to exercise, not having to having the 254 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: time to sleep, but having to sometimes learn control through assistance. 255 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: And that's the thing too, absolutely UM. And some companies 256 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: have sworn off photoshopping or headlines promising weight loss. UM. 257 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: Some celebrities post unretouched photos after a magazine just too 258 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: many touch ups. But it is still worth keeping in 259 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: mind that a lot of celebrities with or without makeup 260 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: are still professionally beautiful, meaning they get a nice chef 261 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: coming in and and fixing their food under the three 262 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: hundred calories. UM. And when we see movies with the 263 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: magical movie makeover implying out ugly this person is that 264 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: is a model um And until she wears better clothes, 265 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: gets her hair done and takes off her dang glasses, 266 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,520 Speaker 1: that's damaging, right, especially when you're like that person was 267 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: never No. I remember that one of the first times 268 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: I saw one of those movies, when the Magical Movie 269 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: Makeover part happened, I was confused. I was like, what 270 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: I remember that too. I was like, all you did 271 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: was she was comb her hair. I see, all you 272 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: did was take her hair out of a ponytail. I 273 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: don't understand what's a specific example, So it's like, what, Yeah, 274 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: it didn't make sense to me. And if you start 275 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: comparing yourself to I guess this person was ugly who 276 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: I thought was beautiful the whole time, then that's very bad, 277 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: damaging um. And also apparently there are boatloads of tutorials 278 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: out there teaching folks how to apply makeup and make 279 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: it look like they haven't so they can still use 280 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: the hashtag no makeup. Right. Well, I remember seeing something. Well, 281 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of like when you see people going to 282 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: bed and they wake up in the TV shows or 283 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: movies and you see they have lips that gone and 284 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: mask are and you're like, how the hell are you asleep? 285 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: Because if that wasn't me, my face would have been 286 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: covered in all kinds of pound stuff, right, and pimples 287 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: on top of that from wearing that makeup anyway. So 288 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: that's just the wise boy. Um. Along with this is 289 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: the whole phenomenon of society worshiping any woman in the 290 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: public sphere who dares claims she is in fact beautiful 291 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: or condemns them for it. I used to see this 292 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: all the time back when, like I don't know why, 293 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: but I was reading dating apps. It was for work, 294 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: but like comments on dating apps and when someone would 295 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: say you're so beautiful, like a man would say that 296 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: to a woman and she'd be like, I know, and 297 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: they'd be like right, um, so you can't wait again. No, 298 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: that's the thing is like why is it so hard 299 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: for people to accept other people liking themselves? Uh? And 300 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,959 Speaker 1: then there's the whole trend of posting fat rolls um 301 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: but for it to sell. It all revolves around images, 302 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: and it all depends on beauty being essential for life 303 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: to have meeting. And then at the same time, the 304 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: idea of body positivity and healthy at any size can 305 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: create another pressure for fat people to live up to 306 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: when posting anything, having to always be body positive or 307 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: show pictures of healthy habits, which is just flat out 308 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: unrealistic for most of us to do that all of 309 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: the time, and especially marginalized folks, to to preempt people 310 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: on social media from trying to diagnose them or tear 311 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: them down right, because there is a lot of pressure 312 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: around all of this for all of us, but celebrities 313 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: as well, um, and there there is a concerned backlash 314 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: UM saying uh to body positivity, to posting those types 315 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: of pictures of fat rolls or whatever, that that it 316 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: will jump start in obesity epidemic. But the data we 317 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: have and there is data out there, does not support that. 318 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: In thoset one more time, it does not support that. 319 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: Because I've had so many conversations love, you're teaching bad 320 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: habits when you say it's okay to be fat, and 321 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: again that's not all we're saying. And also, who are 322 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: you to say who's fat? You're not a damn doctor. 323 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: Healthy looks different on everybody, so shut up. There has 324 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: been also, um, yeah, the reverse extreme ism of it 325 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: of criticizing people who lose weight for any reason. And yes, 326 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: absolutely some reasons are bad, and sometimes good reasons get 327 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: entangled with bad ones, but not all healthy weight loss 328 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,119 Speaker 1: is bad. If you're trying to lose weight for a 329 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: physical aesthetic result, that's not body positive. It doesn't necessarily 330 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: have to be bad, but it's not body positive. Um. 331 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,479 Speaker 1: The phrase can be confusing because positive is in it, um. 332 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: But if you make healthy lifestyle changes and weight loss 333 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: as a result of that, then so be it and 334 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: one of the articles I've found with specific to people 335 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: feeling guilty for losing weight as well as people feeling 336 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: like talking about weight awesome is negative. I think I 337 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: can absolutely agree with the dynamic of unhealthy conversations that 338 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: revolve around any obsession, and that goes beyond just wait 339 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: any obsession, for whether it's UM, people who get obsessed 340 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: with CrossFit, people who I don't think there's anything wrong 341 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: with it, but there's just a whole level people who 342 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 1: get it obsessed with I don't know, watching too much TV, 343 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: too much D and D, hating women, any of those things. 344 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: I know I have stepped on toes and I UM, 345 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: but I also believe in the idea of not being 346 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: a judge of anyone's body. Once again, like it's this 347 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: whole you can't win, you can't lose. Someone's always going 348 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: to be unhappy about something. So if you're too much, 349 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: that's a that's gonna make someone you're too excessive, If 350 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: you're too little, that's not enough. Is this whole back 351 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: and forth and again, this is why I talk about 352 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: self care and self love. You need to be happy 353 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: with who you are and you're not always going to 354 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: be happy all the time. No, no, in general, and 355 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: so hearing this whole negative from either side, that's one 356 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: of the things that we have to meditate through. And 357 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: I say you meditate because you've got to kind of 358 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: just tune it out essentially. And I think that's part 359 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: of the conversation that I would like to have, is like, 360 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: is why do we feel the need to have an 361 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:22,200 Speaker 1: opinion about others so often when we obviously that stuff 362 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: also bothers us? That makes sense? Oh yeah, I feel 363 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,879 Speaker 1: like a lot of times it is. Ultimately it's about 364 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: you projection for sure, for sure, And I think that's 365 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: kind part of the things, like nothing's ever gonna be 366 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: okay until we figure out what's okay with us? Is 367 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: that very wise? I don't know. Is that a question? 368 00:20:44,320 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: It's time for another outbreak? Remember back? Thank you? Sponsored 369 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: So you can be kind of your body and love 370 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: your body and still want to change things about your body. 371 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 1: Change doesn't have to be bad. At the same time, 372 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: it honestly is hard not to feel self loathing for 373 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: our bodies um or at least uncomfortable with parts of 374 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: our body when that is the message women are getting 375 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: all the time, especially women who don't fit. The thin 376 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 1: cis white mold, and that's the trouble with thinner women 377 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: getting in on the body positive movement. It decenters fat 378 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: women who face more stigma and systemic discrimination. And don't 379 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: get as wrong. You can still be skinny and absolutely 380 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: feel bad about your body and still internalize all of 381 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: these messages and want to find something to feel positive 382 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: about it. Those feelings are completely valid, but then privileges 383 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: reality too. Um And this whole thing with body positivity 384 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: reminds me of what happened to Woke if you remember 385 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: that episode that I did with Miranda, Um, it just 386 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: kind of got you served by the mainstream. And we 387 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: are talking a lot of bad things about body positivity, 388 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: but it has done um some good things too, like 389 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: starting conversations like these, more people seeing themselves and others 390 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: in social media UM and and media at large and 391 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: feeling like, oh, I can do that too. I can 392 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: post pictures too, UM, I can I can go out 393 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: and and be I recently watched Shrill, which kind of 394 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: deals with a lot of things, and just like the 395 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: pool party episode is so lovely. Um. But body positivity 396 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 1: has gotten capitalized on and watered down and we're not 397 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: having a conversation about what structural change looks like when 398 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: it comes to accepting all body types trans non my, queer, fat, disabled, 399 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: UM companies have created and profited from maintaining the status quo. 400 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: We're putting the responsibility of people with bodies that don't 401 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: conform to that stas quo. We're putting that pressure to 402 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: change how they feel about their bodies on them, without 403 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: placing any responsibility on the outside forces that impact why 404 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: they might have that negative stealth And right, it's wonderful 405 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: and frankly amazing to feel positive even half the time 406 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: about a body that does not conform towards asco at 407 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: least in my opinion. But if that body is operating 408 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: in a system that does not respect it, does not 409 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: value it, does not view it as human, then right, 410 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 1: and you're absolutely correct, because again I think the same 411 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: conversations need to be had. Again, I know I never 412 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: divert a lot, but in general to women against women, 413 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: film against film, um, queer versus queer, like, there's this 414 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: whole persona that is outside of the actual movement that 415 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: come in to cause the scent in order for you 416 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: to hate your own essentially if that makes sense. And 417 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 1: and oftentimes there's this whole us versus them mentality that 418 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: was never should have been created, but it is profited 419 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: off of for sure, as we can see in politics today. Yep, 420 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: there are good things out there like uh if you're 421 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: looking for them, hashtag body positivity and color hashtag bad 422 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: picture Monday. The body is not an apology and this 423 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: is a hugely important conversation that impacts safety moving about 424 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: in the world, risk of abuse, crimes, and death. And 425 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 1: there is no one size fits all solution, just like 426 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: there is no one size but it's all body. So 427 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: that's the negative side of body positivity. UM. And that 428 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: brings us to the end of our episode. We would 429 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: love to hear from listeners their thoughts around to this UM, 430 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: things that they do to to stay positive about their 431 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: their body. UM. You can email us at Stuff Media, 432 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find 433 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts and on Instagram 434 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: at stuff I've Never Told to you. Thanks as always 435 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: to our superproducer Andrew Howard. Happy belated birthday, Andrew, Happy 436 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: volated birthday, and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never Told. 437 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: He's protection of I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For 438 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 439 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.