1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: I am a Yamla. I had a baby daddy relationship. 2 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: I spent time in a relationship with a married man. 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: I had to learn the skills and tools required to 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: make my relationships healthy, fulfilling and loving. Welcome to the 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: R Spot, a production of shondaland Audio in partnership with 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Ground Rising. Great day, wherever you are, and welcome 7 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: to our spot, the place we come to talk about relationships, 8 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: all types of relationships, but particularly the relationship that we 9 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: are having with ourself, which influences and impacts the relationships 10 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: that we have with all other people. And I am excited. 11 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I am excited about our conversation today 12 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: dealing with men and their relationship with themselves as it 13 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: is presented by my guest today. I've got guests today 14 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: as it is presented by my guest. In the book 15 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: The Invisible Ache, Black Men Identifying their Pain and Reclaiming 16 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: their Power, presented to the world by Courtney B. Vance 17 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: and doctor Robin L. Smith. You know these people, you 18 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: know them, I know them. I love them. Courtney B. 19 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: Vance we know from his work and stage and screen. 20 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: I know him as Da Carver from the Law and 21 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: Order because you know, I am a Law and Order fan. 22 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: I think I've seen every episode eighty six times. But 23 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: we know him and we love him, the beloved husband 24 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: of Angela Bassett, who has shared his heart and his 25 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: soul with the intention of supporting men and identifying their 26 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: pain and reclaiming their power. He is joined in that 27 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: effort by doctor Robin L. Smith, renowned psychologists. We've seen 28 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 1: her everywhere. She shares from her heart, and she is 29 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: committed to the health and the healing of people of color, 30 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: but of all people, Doctor Robin. We call her because 31 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: we love her. Welcome, mister Courtney, doctor Robin, Welcome to 32 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: the art spot. And I have to thank you for 33 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: the Invisible Ache. Oh my god, I can't put it down, 34 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: so thank you for being here today. Why Courtney, Why now? 35 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: Why ache? Why tell me why? 36 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 2: I lost my father to suicide thirty three years ago 37 00:02:54,919 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: and the journey of that to marriage and to healing 38 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: into today. And then three years ago I lost my 39 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: god son to suicide. And I said to myself and 40 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 2: then to Miss Gilda by our publicist, I said, that's enough. 41 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: I've got to say something. I've got to do something. 42 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: And Miss Gilda and put myself and doctor the inimitable 43 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: Doctor Robin l together and it was a match made 44 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: in heaven and we we just we don't need nobody 45 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: in the middle of us. We just talked, and that's 46 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: what we're going to do today. 47 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Doctor Robin. The way this book is 48 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: learned out how Courtney shares and then you assess and 49 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: give tools. I think that is just genius. You said 50 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: this in the book. When I met Courtney it had 51 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: been thirty three years since his father's suicide. And then 52 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: you go on to say that black men's mental health, 53 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: that too many of them suffer alone. Talk to me 54 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: about that suffering. 55 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, suffering alone. And thank you again for this moment. 56 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: Ian looe with you for Courtney and I to come. 57 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 3: He and I are partners, and you and I have 58 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: journeyed a long time together. So it's an honor to 59 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 3: bring the Invisible Ache to this space. Suffering alone, suffering 60 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 3: in silence. You know I talk about in The Invisible 61 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 3: Ache that silence is not always golden. It can be deadly. 62 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 3: And so often men in general and black men specifically 63 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 3: have been taught, rewarded, punished for having their feelings. You know, 64 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 3: I went on to pay a bill recently, and Courtney 65 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 3: and I had been on the road sharing the Invisible Ache, 66 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: and this I shared this with him and the audience 67 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: that a message came up and it said, verify you 68 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: are human. Not I am not a robot. Not right, 69 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 3: not I am not a robot, but verify you are human. 70 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 3: And immediately I felt for all boys and men, but 71 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 3: particularly again Black boys and men who have been challenged 72 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 3: as to whether or not they are human, full and 73 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 3: whole humans, with all of their feelings and all of 74 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 3: their You know, I say that tears are our teacher, 75 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 3: but how many of our black boys and men have 76 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: been stripped and robbed and really sanctioned to silence, almost 77 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 3: solitary confinement. And so we are breaking that silence. We're 78 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 3: breaking the shame of boys and men who were told 79 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: to man up. And what we're saying is part of 80 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 3: manning up is claiming your whole humanity. 81 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 2: Thank you, doctor Rob, you can bring it off, so beautiful, 82 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 2: go ahead. 83 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 1: We've got a caller who is in that exact spot 84 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: talking about defining his manhood and what it means. I 85 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: want to bring him on so that he can share 86 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: with you, and you can share with him and let's 87 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: get his ache addressed to the best of our ability. 88 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: Greetings beloved, and welcome to the R Spot. We are 89 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: talking today to Courtney B. Vance and doctor Robin L. 90 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: Smith about the invisible ache. Please share with us your 91 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: dilemma at this time. 92 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,600 Speaker 4: Well, it's great to be on your show. Briefly, of 93 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 4: what attracted me to the post that I seen yesterday 94 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 4: was the fact that the word invisible ache spoke so 95 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 4: harshly to me that I knew it was a real thing. 96 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 4: And I've realized that the invisible ache that we all 97 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 4: go through as people is the miseducation, especially as a 98 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 4: Black man. On how miseducated I was and misled to 99 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 4: do things a certain way in our community has led 100 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 4: to nothing but at one point, nothing but downfall, and 101 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: it eventually hurt that I had to basically endure and 102 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 4: try to, I guess, rebrand what I became by going 103 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 4: through my maturity. But I believe the more mature I 104 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 4: believe that I got, the more hurt I kept discovering, 105 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 4: and it became a whack of mole of emotions I 106 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 4: kept going through, Like every time I just I saw 107 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 4: one issue I come up with three others that I 108 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 4: didn't realize this is way deeper the surface level of 109 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 4: what I thought I went through, and it just became 110 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: a self not a self hatred of my community, but 111 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 4: just a global self awareness of that my community, especially 112 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 4: as men go through And that's why I believe I 113 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 4: go through the hurt, the emotion despite me not you 114 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 4: my emotions. I still have feelings on how I go 115 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 4: through things, but as men, we get told not to 116 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 4: feel it. You just have to keep pushing and keep moving. 117 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: And I grew up saying yes, I'm going to keep 118 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 4: pushing and move and keep my head up. But then 119 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 4: when everyone leaves the room I have to kind of 120 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 4: go in the corner for a while, you know. 121 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: So, beloved man asked you a question. I heard you say, 122 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: the mis education. So that Courtney and doctor Robin can 123 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: help you, can you give us a specific so that 124 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: we can find common ground. 125 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 4: A very specific. To be honest with you, is, for instance, 126 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 4: when it came to professionalism, I would say, uh, you know, 127 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 4: I was taught to, you know, be kind to your 128 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 4: fellow co workers. Otherwise this would happen. But the more 129 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 4: you give to others, the more they take or especially 130 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 4: in the black community, Hey be nice to your fellow 131 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 4: you know, black sister, and we would try to be 132 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 4: nice to them, but then we would get mistreated, you know, 133 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 4: because we were so nice to them, especially grow up 134 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 4: in the city that I'm from, or whenever it comes like, 135 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 4: hey being you know, be nice to your fellow black mats. 136 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 4: You know. When it came to family, I was also 137 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 4: taught to, hey, respect your elders. But when it came 138 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 4: to putting up a healthy bouncher, say hey, mother or auntie, uncle, 139 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 4: this isn't right, they will say, hey, don't disrespect your elders, 140 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 4: or they'll just exil you from the family. When all 141 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 4: I did was follow what you told me to do. 142 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,439 Speaker 4: But I thought I did everything right, but all I 143 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 4: got was the wrong outcome. As growing up, I had 144 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 4: to be kind of conscious of what am I exactly 145 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 4: supposed to do because what I am taught to the 146 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 4: world and from the world, it's a different reaction than 147 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 4: how the world actually gave it to me. 148 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: The ways in which people have disappointed you, you've been 149 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 3: and we all have been miseducated. We have been conditioned 150 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 3: as people, but particularly as black people, and particularly as 151 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 3: black boys and men. You know, when boys fall down 152 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: and hurt themselves, we tell them to get up and 153 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 3: stop that crying. When girls fall we pick them up, 154 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: we kiss their boo boo, We picked a certain color 155 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 3: band aid for them. And then we wonder why, as men, 156 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: a lot of their entitlement to all of their feelings 157 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 3: is not there. And so I want to invite you 158 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 3: to not get stuck. That doesn't mean you deny your pain. 159 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 3: It means that you use it as a stepping stone. 160 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: And I hear you waiting in some ways, and I've 161 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: done this, so I understand this waiting for someone else 162 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 3: to tell you to validate that your feelings are real. 163 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 3: And I'm wondering what would happen today? He and Courtney 164 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 3: can really weigh into this, what will happen today if 165 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 3: you decide, even if your Mama and grandmam and aunties 166 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: and the other people, if they don't see you, can 167 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: you decide today that you see you? And Courtney bevancies you, 168 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 3: and doctor Robin sees you, and Iyanla sees you. But 169 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 3: what is most important is can you make a decision 170 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 3: to no longer be invisible and have your aches and 171 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 3: your pains and your holes. You know, I say, we 172 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 3: all have holes h o l e s we are 173 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 3: longing to be whole w h o O l e, 174 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: which is a holy h O l y journey. 175 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 2: I love as well. 176 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah that was good, right, this one fill your holes 177 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: so you can be whole and that is a holy journey. 178 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 4: Wow, that's amazing. 179 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: Yeah did you hear? What can you choose? Have you chosen? 180 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: Will you choose to be seen today? And how does 181 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: that make you feel? 182 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 5: Just to consider that if it was almost like a 183 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 5: burden at first. But I have to look through the 184 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 5: pain and I have to ignore the pain, just like 185 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 5: what we do when we lift weights, and I feel 186 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 5: once I am I'm able to do that. I'm going 187 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,359 Speaker 5: to not literally, but I'm going to, you know, spiritually 188 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 5: parba mentally cry about it, but lift that heavy pain 189 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 5: off myself. 190 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: You don't need to ignore your pain when we're lifting weights. 191 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: When I'm a runner and so when I'm jogging, I 192 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 3: can't really ignore what I'm feeling. What I can do 193 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: is give myself a new message about the pain I'm feeling. 194 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 3: So I want to caution you you don't need to 195 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: ignore your pain. You want to read language what your 196 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: pain is here to teach you what it is here, 197 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 3: how it's going to instruct you. And the other part 198 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: is we're longing, all of us for somebody, and Ianla 199 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 3: did this for hundreds of people, to fix our lives, 200 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 3: to fix our heart, our hearts, to fix our relationships. 201 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 3: And the reality is, and you know, like Prince Charming 202 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 3: isn't coming, Princess Charming isn't coming. But the person you've 203 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 3: been waiting for your whole life, the person I've been 204 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 3: waiting for my whole life. Guess what. That person has arrived. 205 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 3: And it's you. It's you awake, it's you committed to you, 206 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 3: it's you open to your own power and your own transformation. 207 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 3: And so what I'm saying to you, I did not 208 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: learn this in books. You know, if you've been following 209 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 3: Iyanla for years, she learned what she learned. Of course, 210 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 3: she's smart and she's brilliant and she's all of that, 211 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 3: but she's suffered and she has converted her suffering into 212 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 3: a platform of elevation. And so we are inviting you 213 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 3: to the same power. We're not special, there's nothing unique 214 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 3: about me or Courtney or Yanla. We just made a 215 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 3: decision to take all that stuff that hurt us and 216 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 3: use it for pay and for purpose and for transformation. 217 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:14,559 Speaker 1: We'll talk more about it when we come back. Welcome 218 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: back to the R spot. Let's pick up where we 219 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: left off. How does it happen that men become disenchanted 220 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: or they lose trust or faith in their own personal strength? 221 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: How does that happen? 222 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 2: Well, you know, our parents were raised in a different time. 223 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: It happens in every generation. Our parents were raised in 224 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: the depression. So that's a whole different reality that they've 225 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 2: given to us. Some some fears and some things that 226 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: they had to deal with that you know that that 227 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: that that my parents didn't have to deal with. Okay, 228 00:14:55,640 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: so then, but but they were taught that way. So 229 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 2: my parents passed on some of their fear is to me. 230 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 2: So I come to be thirty years old and did 231 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: the best I could to get to where I was 232 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: with what they gave me. Now, the rest of it, 233 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 2: from thirty on, or whenever you come to that, you 234 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: hit that roadblock in your life in your mind, the 235 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: rest of it is on me. The rest of it 236 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 2: is on me to try to connect with other people, 237 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: you know, because you don't have to. You can go 238 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: to the rest of your life exactly where you are, 239 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: go as far as your parents there, their instructions will 240 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: take you. And at thirty I could have stopped and said, 241 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: I'm done. Whatever happens to me is whatever happens to me, 242 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: that's life. I could have made all the excuses and gone, 243 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: you know whatever, boo, I'm gonna be this is me, 244 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: and that would be fine. I probably wouldn't be here 245 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: right now because all I knew was what my father did, 246 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: and he taught me everything, so I would be like, 247 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 2: well he did it, It's okay to be done that way, 248 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 2: that's what that's like. But I said no, no, my 249 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: mother said no. First of all, my mother took me 250 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 2: in my sister's side and said we're going to break this. 251 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: Go find someone to talk to. Now that was foreign 252 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: to me that I actually could I can do that. 253 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing you can do, to talk 254 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: to somebody, talk about what what we're going to talk about. 255 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: And so I'm growing, I'm I'm She gave me a charge. 256 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: I followed it, and but at every step there was darkness. 257 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 2: So I continually come up up against myself and I 258 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 2: continually we continually can go I'm done. I don't want 259 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: to do that. That's too much work. But as doctor 260 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: Robin tells tells us that suffering is work, we're so 261 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 2: used to being able to that. That's our reality. That 262 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 2: that's life is suffering, and life is not suffering. Life 263 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: is supposed to be abundance. But there's nobody encouraging us 264 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 2: toward abundance. And sometimes, as my Bible tells me, you've 265 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 2: got to encourage your own self. You've got to find 266 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 2: a way to keep going. As Jonathan you told us, 267 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 2: you got to keep going. Somebody told you to keep 268 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 2: that's that's what you just got to keep and you do. 269 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: You got to press until you find someone else to 270 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: help you take past the batonda to go to the 271 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 2: next But because ultimately I said, I got to get 272 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 2: myself ready for the next time as someone wonderful comes 273 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 2: into my life to be able to deal with them. 274 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,439 Speaker 2: And and at a certain point, your life can't be 275 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 2: your grandmother's or your or your mama's life. You got 276 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 2: to take responsibility for your life. And what do I 277 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: want to do? What I want better? I want better, 278 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 2: I want more than what my grandma mede than my 279 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 2: mother dealt with and knows about. And that's the journey. 280 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: Life's journey begins, is beginning for you. And that's why 281 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 2: we're going around the country talking to let men and 282 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: women and people know life is not exact all that 283 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: just this where you your parents were able to bring 284 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 2: you to and everybody and it don't have two parents, 285 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: some people don't have parents at all. But it begins 286 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 2: with a discussion. Let's start talking about get some tools 287 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 2: and let's hear your pain so we can begin to 288 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: give you ideas and tools to begin to go. Okay, 289 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 2: let me take another step. I want to take another step, 290 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: because if you don't want to take those steps, it's done. 291 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: Can anybody make you do nothing? But we're here to 292 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 2: say it's possible. 293 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, what is it that makes 294 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 1: you think you don't have the strength to carry yourself 295 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: to where you need to be. Is there a particular 296 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: thought or feeling? Is it something you were taught or told? 297 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: What makes you think that you don't have the strength. 298 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 4: When I get told that you ain't sugar honey iced tea, 299 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 4: I ask myself reassure myself that that is not true. 300 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 4: But what I tend to do is that I tend 301 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 4: to look away and turn the cheek and then slowly 302 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 4: turn my head to think is that possibly true? And 303 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 4: I think I started to lean into it, and instead 304 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 4: of becoming what I was accused of, I just was 305 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 4: defensive not I now know spent overspent my energy to 306 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 4: the point that I realized that emotional currency, that strength 307 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 4: is being depleted. I'm starting to overdraft now. I can't 308 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 4: wait to move gone, but knowing that I haven't moved 309 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 4: a single inch. 310 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: Well, you know, the victory is you're here. The victory 311 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 2: is that you're here, you're on the phone with us. 312 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: The victory is you took the step to call. You 313 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: didn't have to call. That lets us know that, lets 314 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: me know that you're you're ready for the next step. 315 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: You can't go any further, that's what you're saying. You've 316 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: gone as far as you can go by yourself, and 317 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:32,639 Speaker 2: doctor Robin he needs some tools to go further. You 318 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: want to go, but you're emotionally spent from trying to 319 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 2: do it yourself, and the people that around you can't 320 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 2: help you because they tell you you ain't sugar honey 321 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: iced tea. But you know in your spirit you are, 322 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: so doctor Robin, help, let's give my man some tools. 323 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know. I Courtney, thank you for reminding 324 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: us how important the tools are, and also that it's 325 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 3: important that we make the decision because it is a choice, Jonathan, 326 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 3: we can end up being. I think one of the 327 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 3: biggest addictions is the addiction to our suffering. And I 328 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 3: want you to be aware that you've become comfortable even 329 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 3: though you're hurting, You've become comfortable with your ache. And 330 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 3: so part of what Courtney and I am the Invisible 331 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 3: Ache is all about. It is becoming uncomfortable with suffering. 332 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 3: It is becoming uncomfortable with aching being how you live 333 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 3: your life. So one of the tools, and Courtney said this, 334 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 3: that the people who are not affirming you, I'm wondering, 335 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 3: is there anyone in your life who does affirm you? 336 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 3: As we've talked about maybe some of the people who don't, 337 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 3: But who's healthy in your life, who's doing their own work, 338 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 3: who's been to therapy, who is telling the truth about 339 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 3: their invisible aid, that's in your life? 340 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 4: Honestly, that will be my life. She's been a great 341 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 4: support system, she's been a great witness to what I've 342 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 4: been through and unfortunately my suffering was weaponized on her 343 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 4: throughout the years. Is because I always would look at 344 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 4: her and say, you don't know what you're talking about. 345 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 4: You don't know what you're talking about. That family, you know, now, 346 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 4: I'm always going to have them until you wake up. 347 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 3: So right now, so I hear it got weaponized. But 348 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 3: you know, you have a lot of insight. This is 349 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 3: what's good. Not only did you call, you have a 350 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: lot of insight. And you recognize that your wife is 351 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 3: your partner. She's part of the blueprint for your liberation. 352 00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: Did you know that. 353 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 4: I've seen that, Yes, and I wanted to recognize it 354 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 4: because I feel like I never gave her enough credit 355 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 4: because she's always working under blueprint. 356 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 3: And this is I want to caution you. The past 357 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 3: beckons all of us to come laid down in it 358 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 3: and stay. And so I just want to invite you. 359 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 3: Courtney could be talking today not about his father's death 360 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 3: by suicide thirty three years ago and his godson suicide. 361 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 3: Courtney could end other things that he shares in the 362 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 3: invisible way. He could nurse and rehearse that trauma. So Jonathan, 363 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 3: I one tool. I'm going to ask you to begin 364 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:49,239 Speaker 3: to withdraw from the addiction of nursing and rehearsing what 365 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 3: didn't go well yesterday or ten years ago. See what 366 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 3: we focus on grows, and what grows has dominion over us, 367 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 3: and what is growing in your life before today? What's 368 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 3: the trauma? Today? Now is a new day, and the 369 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 3: tools are how do you starve the lie and feed 370 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: the truth. 371 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that when we come back. Welcome back 372 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: to the R spot. Let's get back to the conversation. 373 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,639 Speaker 3: You have a wife who is your partner in truth 374 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 3: and in integrity, so you can apologize to her when 375 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 3: we're finished. You can say, you know what, not only 376 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 3: did I wake up, I'm woke, like all the way awake, 377 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 3: and now I'm ready to move forward, not denying the past. 378 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 3: But the past is over. You have the opportunity now 379 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 3: to nurse and rehearse what is genuinely true about you. 380 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 4: We'll do first. 381 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: I want you to know that you were heard, but 382 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: I want to hear what did you hear? Doctor Robins 383 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: saying you don't have to repeat her words, but I 384 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,880 Speaker 1: just want to see how it lands in your body, how. 385 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 4: It lends in my head? Is that to deny the 386 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 4: past is a form of way of that. I've always 387 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 4: been able to lie to myself because I always denying 388 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 4: it and I always lie in it at the same time. 389 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 4: And I think what we need to do is that 390 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 4: what I need to do is that I need to 391 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 4: focus on the future, and the future is the only 392 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,119 Speaker 4: mouldible truth that I could still make to myself to 393 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 4: this day. And when it comes to what she said 394 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,719 Speaker 4: earlier about repurposing my language, I think, and I think, 395 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 4: I know I would need to turn my anger into 396 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 4: motivation to do better. And I can no longer continue 397 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 4: to weaponize my suffering onto myself and others. That's how 398 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 4: I internalize my God. 399 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 3: All I want to say, my God, Jonathan, we need 400 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: to just get up right now, because this is the beginning. 401 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 3: You've caught yourself, you are coaching yourself. You're ready, You're there. 402 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 3: And I'm not saying there's no work. Look, I'm doing 403 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 3: work every day of my life to be more of 404 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 3: who I am. But you have in you the spirit 405 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 3: of truth, and you've got the courage to lift whatever 406 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 3: burdens have been on you, to roll them off and 407 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 3: move on. I hear it, I see it. It's exciting. 408 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 4: It does feel good to speak on this. Like again, 409 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 4: my wife has been a great outlet, but it's you know, 410 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 4: just you know, having three other outlets to know take 411 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 4: turns in a very fair and you know, prompt way. 412 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 4: It's been a bit of a relief as well. 413 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 3: Did you ever think about going to therapy? Not long term, 414 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 3: but just go sit somewhere where somebody is all about that? 415 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 4: Yes, my wife, we are considering couple's therapy just to 416 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,879 Speaker 4: keep things good, just to know, make sure things are 417 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 4: still in balance. And I also have my own therapist 418 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 4: on my own base. I'm in a military, but I 419 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 4: also have my own military therapist as well. And I'm 420 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 4: looking to help try to mitigate this the situations that 421 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 4: I might bring out in my words and try to 422 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 4: you know, use those outlets along with my wife and 423 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 4: sources like you guys, and soon will be a new 424 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 4: purchase of your Invisible Age. I will try to use 425 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 4: as many resources as I can to try to learn 426 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 4: something new every day because I'm not living if I'm 427 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 4: not learning about myself. Now that's something I do. That's 428 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 4: a long journey. I want to continue. With my wife, no, no, 429 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 4: with herd hand and with myself. Even she even says 430 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 4: she doesn't have to be here, but as long as 431 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 4: she knows that I'm having some type of journey, because 432 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 4: I can tell that my journey is long through. 433 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: If I could leave you with three things, it would 434 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: be this. Number one, everybody's got issues, so you haven't 435 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: done anything wrong. The other thing is you are not 436 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 1: the only one in the room who has this issue, 437 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 1: who has these challenges. The third thing is to just 438 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: be mindful where you're working with and living from an 439 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: outdated program. That's what doctor Robin was saying, focusing on 440 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: the hurt you are living with an outdated programs. I 441 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: want to encourage you to do your counseling, coaching therapy. 442 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: That's number one. Number two, get a copy of The 443 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: Invisible Ache and start working through it. And number three, 444 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: in January, come join the book club and we're going 445 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: to work through it and get it done. I hope 446 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: this has been helpful for you, Jonathan. 447 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 4: This is very much as. 448 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: Thank you for calling and be sure to tune in 449 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: and listen to the art spot. 450 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing. 451 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 4: You all have been an absolute pleasure. Have every rest of today, Okay, 452 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 4: thank you, Thank you. 453 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: From you, Courtney, as as men begin to read this book, 454 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: because I'm gonna make sure that they get it read 455 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: anybody with two eyeballs. My favorite chapter is makes me 456 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,719 Speaker 1: want to holler. But anyway, as men go through this, 457 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: what do you want them to walk away with themselves? 458 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 2: The victory of themselves that they they can reclaim or 459 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: claim that the freedom of the fulfillment of being able 460 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 2: to stand and you know, and and you know, I'm 461 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: I'm always evolving and I do that by just breathing 462 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 2: and living and reading and the excitement of you know, 463 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 2: of seeing the where the world is is going and 464 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: at this and not our bishop years ago said you 465 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 2: got to look at you got to look at the 466 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 2: way when people do things psych a psychiatrists or a psychologists, 467 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,239 Speaker 2: and when people disappoint your and say things that are crazy, 468 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: you just go, isn't that interesting? Because they're always there 469 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 2: are The world is going to be? Is it was 470 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 2: this way when you got here, This is going to 471 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 2: be this way when you leave it. So it's not 472 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 2: don't get depressed about the world. The world was was 473 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 2: the world we inherited. My generation inherited was Vietnam, Watergate assassinations, riots, 474 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,760 Speaker 2: and so it's there's there's no difference. The only difference 475 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: in that world. In this world is this phone. And 476 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: the technology has shifted such that things are are happening 477 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 2: so fast that we've got to emotionally do what we're 478 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: doing now to recover ourselves so that this phone doesn't 479 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: wag the dog. This phone is wagging us. We've got 480 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 2: to wag the phone. This is my phone, and it's 481 00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: just a phone. It doesn't control me. And so that's 482 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: the journey of just getting back ourselves, talking to each other, 483 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: getting truths as opposed to lies and misconceptions, and being 484 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: able to go, oh wow, I didn't know. Can I 485 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 2: do that? I can say that? Okay, I mean that's 486 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: the journey. 487 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: Doc, Doctor Robin, I want to I want you to 488 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: give me this specifically, how do they begin to identify 489 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 1: the ache? Because so many men don't even have the 490 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: emotional language, they don't have the vocabulary. What do they 491 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: need to do to begin to identify that ache? 492 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 3: The question that we ask in the invisible ache is 493 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 3: not do you hurt, because we already know that, but 494 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 3: where does it hurt? That's question that's really where does 495 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 3: it hurt? So I'm not asking you to tell me 496 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 3: if you hurt. I already know that. So when a 497 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 3: man or a boy is asked by his parents or 498 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 3: his partner, where does it hurt and how does that 499 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 3: hurt show up, it's a very different question that opens 500 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 3: the door for curiosity and compassion to be curious about 501 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 3: the internal world. Like the person might say, I don't 502 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 3: know where it hurts. Okay, Well that's new information, not 503 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 3: that it doesn't hurt, but you're learning that you don't 504 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 3: have language for emotions, that that was taken from you. 505 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 3: I also know that a lot of the violence that 506 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:48,719 Speaker 3: we're seeing with black men and black boys ultimately really 507 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 3: is it is the invisible eche that had nowhere to go. 508 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 3: I often say that if we could take for all 509 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 3: the bullets that are shot from guns, and those bullets 510 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 3: could be tagged with feelings of humiliation, embarrassment, not being 511 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 3: good enough, feeling like a loser. And I mean, if 512 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 3: we could attach those feelings and allow men again to 513 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: be whole, to have their holes, which is a holy journey. 514 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 3: And the other thing, Eanla, that I want to just 515 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 3: remind all of your listeners is that the invisible ache 516 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 3: is really about calling all people, but all black men 517 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 3: and boys and those who love them to the floor 518 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 3: of their own life. It's like an alter call. Not 519 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 3: where you are coming down to receive the God of 520 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 3: your youth or the God of your adulthood. You're coming down, 521 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 3: as Courtney just said, to reunite or to unite for 522 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 3: the first time, with yourself. You're coming to the floor 523 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 3: of your own life and to the table that maybe 524 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 3: you were not allowed to your own table, that someone 525 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,320 Speaker 3: disenfranchised you from, and now we're talking about come come 526 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 3: back to yourself, come to your table, and come to 527 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 3: the floor of your own life to have your holes 528 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 3: h O l ees longing to be whole, whol e, 529 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,800 Speaker 3: which is a holy hol y journey. 530 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: If they don't remember nothing else, they got to remember that. 531 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: You know. A friend of mine heard the call out 532 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,640 Speaker 1: for the show yesterday and he sent me a text 533 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: last night that just blew me out of the park. 534 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: He said, here's my ache. I've learned that there is 535 00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: a distinction between failing and being a failing, and for 536 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: most of my life I have felt like a failure. 537 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: I want to know how to overcome that feeling. This 538 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: man is seventy something years old, so I went to 539 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: the book and this is what I said, because this 540 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: is what you wrote, ask for help. That's number one. 541 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: Number two, say it out loud. Thank you for saying 542 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: it out loud. Number three, don't assume that it can't 543 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: be healed. And don't deny that you wanted to be healed. 544 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: You wrote that. You said a denial can serve a 545 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: person's purpose. I said, but don't deny that you wanted 546 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: to be healed. I said to him, carve out in 547 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: authentic space for yourself with other men, with somebody you love, 548 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: so that you can talk. And then I said, get 549 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 1: thee to a therapist. 550 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 3: But you know the other thing he did. He reached 551 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 3: out to a safe space, and that was you. And 552 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 3: to me, safety is the prerequisite of the work. If 553 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,439 Speaker 3: I don't feel safe to tell someone I hurt, That's 554 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 3: what he was saying, I hurt. I used to think 555 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 3: I was the failure and the fact you were safe 556 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 3: that he could articulate that is again the beginning of 557 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 3: his own liberation and healing. 558 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being here. You know, 559 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: I'm on a crusade every everybody with two eyeballs. I've 560 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 1: got to have this book and then we're going to 561 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: come together. I don't know how I'm going to invite 562 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: you to join the book club. Thank you, Courtney for 563 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: your authentic honesty, your transparency, and your commitment to your 564 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: own healing, which I think is a demonstration. Doctor Robin, 565 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,399 Speaker 1: you know you were, you are and have always been 566 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: a powerful teacher in my life. At a time in 567 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: my life when you could have really condemned me, you didn't. 568 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: You gave me the space to grow. And I've never 569 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,839 Speaker 1: been the same. You know what I'm talking about. I've 570 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: never been the same. And I thank you, I honor you, 571 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,479 Speaker 1: and deep vow to both of you for just being here. 572 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: And we'll be in touch real soon. Loves love you back. 573 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I love you so much, and thank this honor 574 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 3: and and know that I grew you and I have 575 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 3: grown together because of each other. Yes and through each other. 576 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, Yes, thank you, thank you, love you, Bye 577 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 1: bye the Invisible Ache. I want to talk to women 578 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 1: for a moment. I want to talk to women for 579 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: a moment because one of the things that I noticed 580 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: when I put the call up last night, women, can 581 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: I come and get helpful my brother, and can I 582 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: come and talk about my husd and can I come 583 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: and do this? That and the other thing. And the 584 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: thing that I want to say to us, to my 585 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: sister women is yes, you can read the invisible ache, 586 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 1: and yes you can get some insights. But I also 587 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: encourage us and invite us to learn how to be 588 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: a safe space for our father's brothers, husbands, sons, nephews, 589 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: grandsons without having to control it. I think what the 590 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: Invisible Eight talks about is giving men the space to, 591 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: as doctor Robin said, come to the altar of their 592 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: own life. And I know for me as a mother 593 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: and when I was a wife, sometimes I was so 594 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: afraid that he wasn't going to make it that I 595 00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: jumped in to break his fall, or to make it happened, 596 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: or to make it look the way I thought it 597 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: to look it needed to look. So, women, I want 598 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: to say to you, let's not do this. Let's be 599 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: aware of the ache, but let's give the men the 600 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: room and the space and the opportunity to build their 601 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 1: own inner altar, to build their strength again, to fill 602 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: their holes and find their own wholeness. Let them have 603 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: this holy journey, and let us as women know how 604 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: to walk with them, not on them, not over them, 605 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:45,439 Speaker 1: and not for them. I think that as men begin 606 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 1: to identify their pain and their pain, is it more 607 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: important than our pain? Please don't hear that, because I 608 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: saw that also in the call out why women have 609 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: pain too? Women have an invisiy. Yeah, yeah, we do. 610 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: And we have had spaces and times and opportunity for 611 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: so long to address that. So let's not get into 612 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: the duality of comparing and competing compartition, Not competition or comparison, 613 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,560 Speaker 1: but compartition, where we're competing pain and comparing pain. Let's 614 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 1: get in our circles and let's continue to do our 615 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: healing work, recognizing that healing circles are somewhat new for 616 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: many men. And let us be a support, let us 617 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: be a safe place, let us be their prayer partners 618 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: as opposed to those who think we need to control them. 619 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: The Invisible ache Black Men identifying their pain and reclaiming 620 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: their power. It's available both as a book or on 621 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: kind audio. I want to thank doctor Robin L. Smith 622 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: and Courtney B. Vance for joining us today. I want 623 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: you to go back, listen, take notes. Mothers, take notes, mothers, 624 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: take notes wives, so that you can learn how to 625 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,720 Speaker 1: be with a man as he identifies his invisible ache. 626 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning in. I will see you next 627 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 1: time and in the meantime, stay in peace and not pieces. 628 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: The R Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in 629 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:50,240 Speaker 1: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit 630 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,600 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 631 00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.