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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

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Speaker 1: Never told you a protection of I Heart Radio's house.

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Speaker 1: Steff works. Today we have another interview conversation about women

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Speaker 1: in puppetry sometimes scheduling, it's just a crazy thing. It's

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Speaker 1: hard to manage. And as I said in one of

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Speaker 1: our classics, I've recently been out of town for several

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Speaker 1: days for peanut conference, which I want a peanut butter. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I have so much peanut butter. Is this peanut butter?

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Speaker 1: It's at my home. But also I'm about to leave

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Speaker 1: for another chip because I'm going to Disney World again

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Speaker 1: and I don't I'm a little bitter about it in

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Speaker 1: the most first world problem kind of way because the

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Speaker 1: ride I wanted to ride it's not even open. But

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Speaker 1: your favorite ride will be open. My favorite ride will

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Speaker 1: be up. Better be if it's not open, then I'm

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Speaker 1: coming for you, Samantha, because you put a curse on

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Speaker 1: it des by saying that that's enough. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I am your number one what is it? Supporter when

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Speaker 1: it comes to this ride, and you know it, that's true.

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Speaker 1: You are. You really helped facilitate me writing that ride.

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Speaker 1: So I'm forever grateful for that, But we did have

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Speaker 1: someone else that we wanted to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: women in puppetry and U for these episodes. I UM,

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Speaker 1: I read all kinds of papers about how women in

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Speaker 1: some countries like um, Turkey and in South Africa are

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Speaker 1: using puppets uh to touch on issues that they might

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Speaker 1: not be able to touch on. Are are that are

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Speaker 1: seen as socially unacceptable when it comes to polite conversation,

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Speaker 1: shall we say? Um and as as I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about the history of of puppets and things like um

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Speaker 1: Punch and Judy, which is from the sixteenth century, but

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Speaker 1: I also remembered Lamb Shop. I'm just playing alone. I

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Speaker 1: totally forgot about Lamb Shop. Sherry Lewis first appeared in

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Speaker 1: ninety six. Well, Mr Rogers obviously he had his whole

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Speaker 1: village he did, you know. I feel like I said

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Speaker 1: this in an episode before, but I didn't know anything

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Speaker 1: about Mr Rogers until college. And when I learned about him,

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Speaker 1: I got like personally moved. Hey, he's one of the

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Speaker 1: good ones. I hope so. I think so he's one

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Speaker 1: of the good ones. I think it's been years and

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Speaker 1: years and years of just great testimony about how he's

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Speaker 1: such a great man. You know that's funny because the

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's not funny, but it reminds me of

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Speaker 1: on this peanut festival. It's not a festival conference. There

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Speaker 1: was someone who had been an extra in the new Mr.

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Speaker 1: Rogers movie and he said, you can see me in

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Speaker 1: the fight scene, and we were all like, there's a

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Speaker 1: fight scene. Mr. Apparently there's a fight scene in it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then we got uh. We were talking before this

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Speaker 1: about Miss Picky and UM set me street. Miss Petty

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Speaker 1: appeared in nineteen seventy four. Yeah, she was voiced by

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Speaker 1: a man, right O Resently, I think, yeah, I think so.

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Speaker 1: I thought, I'm pretty sure it's performed by a man.

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Speaker 1: Let me let adult check Frank Oz nineties six two two?

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Speaker 1: Is that what that is? I didn't know that, don't

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Speaker 1: So it's always been a man, unless you're talking about

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Speaker 1: the mother babies, which Savantha is eager to bring up

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Speaker 1: the Muppet babies at every turn. Yes, and apparently there's

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Speaker 1: a reboot. I didn't know this, Jitney Slate. As you said,

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Speaker 1: I'm so behind on the news. You're so behind on

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Speaker 1: the Muppet baby news. Nephews yo. Oh, well Andy and

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Speaker 1: Randy Pig. That's future research to be done. UM. And

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Speaker 1: as we said, if you haven't heard our part one,

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Speaker 1: you should go check that out because we sort of

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Speaker 1: asked the question about how do we define puppets because

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of us we have a

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Speaker 1: narrow definition of what it is, but puppetry encompasses so

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Speaker 1: much more than what we traditionally think of, and it

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Speaker 1: can be shadows, objects, object puppetry, puppet animation. UM. So

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Speaker 1: that's something to keep in mind, and that it is changing.

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Speaker 1: Puppetry in Canada and the US at least had a

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Speaker 1: resurgence in the nineties of these and then Sesame Street

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Speaker 1: was the first episode and since then there have been

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Speaker 1: a lot of There have been a lot of technological

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Speaker 1: advances and and changes, and um, women more entering the workforce.

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Speaker 1: And that's something else I read is that for a

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Speaker 1: long time, and and not not necessarily in um are

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Speaker 1: our modern times, but puppetry, when women were the ones

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Speaker 1: doing it, it was looked down upon because it was

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Speaker 1: a feminine art. And then when men were the ones

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Speaker 1: doing it, it was seen as this really powerful thing.

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Speaker 1: And that we see that play out in all kinds

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Speaker 1: of art forms. But as our interviewees seem to have indicated, UM,

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Speaker 1: the that is changing and more women are entering this

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Speaker 1: this world of puppetry. So we want to feature one

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Speaker 1: of those women do being badass things in that world

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Speaker 1: in this interview. So let's get into it. I'm Sarah

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Speaker 1: free Ship. I make puppetry my life. I guess my

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Speaker 1: passion is synonymous with my work. I have multiple groups

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Speaker 1: I work with now. Um, Public Bob is one. Nightshade

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Speaker 1: Shadows Fare's another. The Hand in the Shadow is also another.

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Speaker 1: Because nobody told me to pick one name and stick

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Speaker 1: with it. Um, coolie. I I was reading your bio

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Speaker 1: on puppet Kebab the website. UM, and you you've done

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Speaker 1: quite a bit. You've toured in internationally. Um. You went

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Speaker 1: to University of Connecticut's puppetry arts program. Um, so it

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Speaker 1: seems like you're a pretty good person to be speaking

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Speaker 1: with about this conversation looking at women in puppetry. I'm

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Speaker 1: both of those things. There we go, check off the list. Yes, Um.

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Speaker 1: One thing that I'm curious about is how did you

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Speaker 1: decide to go into puppetry. Um, was there like a

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Speaker 1: particular moment, what kind of training did you go to?

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Speaker 1: How did you get to where you are? I've played

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Speaker 1: with dolls, so I was in high school, no joke.

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Speaker 1: I hit it really well. I made UM stories for them,

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Speaker 1: costumes and clothing for them, and then got involved in

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Speaker 1: the drama program in high school. UM. I also played

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Speaker 1: music in the band, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: playing the clarinet has been helpful with doing maryon it um,

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Speaker 1: most specifically being able to isolate movement in both hands

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Speaker 1: to make the two parts come together as one UM.

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Speaker 1: But in the theater, I never felt really comfortable on

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Speaker 1: stage until we did a program where we got to

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Speaker 1: wear map and then this whole other side and he

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Speaker 1: came out and I got kind of lucky that my

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Speaker 1: advisor at school and over you must have known I

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Speaker 1: was just that right, kind of weird, and said have

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Speaker 1: you looked at all at Yukon's puppetry arts program? And

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Speaker 1: I just that was That's all I wanted to do

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Speaker 1: at that point. So I was able to audition into

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Speaker 1: the program. Was my clarinet actually, and then spent four

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Speaker 1: years of undergrad studying things you kind of leave with

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Speaker 1: like a toolbox. I guess um a lot of knowledge

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Speaker 1: of materials and history and theories and then UM. At

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Speaker 1: that point, I just started finding artists, UM who I

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Speaker 1: liked their work and called them up and said can

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Speaker 1: I come over? So, which is how I ended up

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Speaker 1: in Germany for the first time working with Albert Rosser. UM.

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Speaker 1: I saw a performance of him when I was in college,

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Speaker 1: and I was just absolutely taken and drawn to his

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Speaker 1: style of performing on stage with the puppet as a partner. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so I my first real sort of professional workshop

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Speaker 1: outside of school was going to Germany and studying with him.

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Speaker 1: That really launched me, I think, UM, to do this

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Speaker 1: for life. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I certainly didn't didn't get

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Speaker 1: any of that out of playing the clarinet, but I

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Speaker 1: did enjoy it. Um. Yeah, it was a fun I

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Speaker 1: was wondering actually recently if I got out my clarinet one,

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Speaker 1: it would be gross because I haven't opened the case

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Speaker 1: in years and I should like clean it out and

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Speaker 1: donate it. But yeah, I sold my traumbone a while ago.

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Speaker 1: You sold your traumone. I was a poor college student

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Speaker 1: and he didn't. And that's fair, That's totally fair. UM.

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Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about, UM, if you

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Speaker 1: have any favorite techniques or pieces or shows, which I

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Speaker 1: think is kind of a good segue from what you

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Speaker 1: were just speaking about, and yeah, like, what is it

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Speaker 1: that you really love about puppetry? So let's see. Um.

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Speaker 1: I feel like when I was at Yukon, I saw

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Speaker 1: this group mabou Mines performed Peter and Andy and this

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Speaker 1: um female actress did the all the voices. She kind

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Speaker 1: of was like the conductor for the whole show, and I,

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Speaker 1: upon seeing that, thought, if this is what puppetry is,

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Speaker 1: I'm totally in um. It had like a pop up

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Speaker 1: house that lit up and had some shadows, and it

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Speaker 1: was mostly dolt being used to create a different characters

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Speaker 1: or like uh mob turned upside down to become Nana.

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Speaker 1: It was just a little outside of I guess what

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Speaker 1: you would see on mainstream TV where the characters are

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Speaker 1: finished more from Hedge too, even if they're not of

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Speaker 1: this world, but they have eyes and ears and mouths.

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Speaker 1: It's you know. Uh. So that was another artistic way

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Speaker 1: to express a show using puppets that I hadn't seen um.

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Speaker 1: Bruce Schwartz who did puppets in the Double Life of Veronique,

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Speaker 1: who used to perform, but I've never seen him on

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Speaker 1: stage was another thing. Um uh sort of captured me

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Speaker 1: just the amount of emotion he could get and and drama.

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Speaker 1: He kind of some of his puppets would go to

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Speaker 1: the dark side a little bit. He has a ballerine,

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Speaker 1: a dancer who hurts her leg and essentially has to

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Speaker 1: transform into this butterfly because you can just sort of bee.

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Speaker 1: At that point, her life it's over because she can't,

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Speaker 1: you know, fulfill this passion anymore. So that's somebody who

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Speaker 1: really cut my eye. And then Albert Roser, who I

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Speaker 1: worked with in Germany, who actually innovated his own style

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Speaker 1: of marrying at controller, which is the wooden part where

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Speaker 1: all the strings sing from. So instead of um creating

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Speaker 1: something very specific that you know how it will be

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Speaker 1: strong to work, you create this character by essentially like

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Speaker 1: listening to the materials and seeing what comes out of

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Speaker 1: the wood grain as you carve it. So you could

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Speaker 1: start with an idea and then you just remove it

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Speaker 1: and you allow it to be and then you string

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Speaker 1: that up specifically to how this figure ends up essentially

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Speaker 1: coming into its form. So the controllers are all different

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Speaker 1: for every single puppet. So I like that part. I'm

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Speaker 1: drawn to the physics of that UM to the sort

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Speaker 1: of real uniqueness of that. Even in Germany his work

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Speaker 1: is considered pretty rebellious. It's not it's not a standard

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Speaker 1: European style controller at all. UM. So that, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that's probably why most gravitated towards him. And that

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Speaker 1: was my first thing out of school that I sought

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Speaker 1: to do UM was to go and study with him

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Speaker 1: and make this belly dancer Marryingett where all the strings

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Speaker 1: actually slide through different parts of the body all the

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Speaker 1: way to the to the base of the hips, and

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Speaker 1: it's literally hips, boobs and the head with two rope

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Speaker 1: arms swinging off from it. So it's you have to

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Speaker 1: rely on the audience and you're working together to fill

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Speaker 1: in the full form. So that that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff that I really love. UM. That has I think

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Speaker 1: most influenced the work that I do. That's I have

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Speaker 1: so many things I want to ask about that, like

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Speaker 1: so many different directions ago and but UM, one thing

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Speaker 1: before we came in here, UM one of our colleagues

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Speaker 1: was talking about UM Sesame Street, which for a long

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Speaker 1: time has been how America that's puppets is kind of

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Speaker 1: that's what they are they don't do this sort of

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Speaker 1: dark side thing that you were touching on. And I

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Speaker 1: do think that's starting to change, but that's been how

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Speaker 1: we've seen it for a long time. And he was

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Speaker 1: saying that he read uh something that before there was

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Speaker 1: one female puppet on Sesame Street, there were nineteen male puppets. Um.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons was that women are so

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Speaker 1: automatically sexualized, and that the way that people audiences were

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Speaker 1: interpreting the puppet bit was that she was inappropriate and

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Speaker 1: that the male body was the neutral body. Um. And

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Speaker 1: that like when people were asked afterwards after seeing female puppets,

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Speaker 1: they often said, like, to be a female puppet, you

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Speaker 1: have to have like bright lipsick, big boobs, long hair. Um.

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Speaker 1: Is there something you've seen that when you're designing a

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Speaker 1: female character or a female puppet, Maybe not specifically you,

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Speaker 1: but in the puppetry world, have you seen stuff like that?

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Speaker 1: Is there a difference when it comes to puppet design

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Speaker 1: male and female puppets. Yeah? I wondered too if some

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Speaker 1: of that's really um just here in the US, because

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Speaker 1: I in performing in Germany, they they do more what

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Speaker 1: they call figures there, like the puppet trees and art,

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Speaker 1: so it's not it's not as campy or they're not

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Speaker 1: trying to go. I feel like there's not the aim

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Speaker 1: with the stereotypes, and the body is totally viewed differently.

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Speaker 1: It's a tool. And then here we can only be

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Speaker 1: naked in our showers. So so I wonder how far

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Speaker 1: that idea stretches. Um, yeah, so I see that. It

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Speaker 1: is Uh, it is interesting. There is still the fight

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Speaker 1: to make strong female characters, um that aren't getsy or

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Speaker 1: don't have a giant, but we have them, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But I certainly know that when I see a program

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Speaker 1: where you realize it's a woman director and stuff, there

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Speaker 1: is something about it that you can see yourself in

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Speaker 1: that you can't when it is directed by a man.

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Speaker 1: There's something missing the the care of the I don't

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Speaker 1: know the shape. Um gosh, I'm trying to think. Mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: So when you look so if you say the female character,

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Speaker 1: you mean miss Piggy's Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, like

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Speaker 1: when you look at That's what I was saying Samantha,

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Speaker 1: because when I think about the Muppets, there was only

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Speaker 1: one female gender character and that right now she was

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Speaker 1: hilarious and she was the boss. I love that. But

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think because if you think about like

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Speaker 1: Flazzy and all of them, and then then I think

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Speaker 1: there are some gender neutral ones that would not necessarily gendered.

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Speaker 1: But I know Piggy, Miss Piggy was one. But it's

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Speaker 1: typically one female character to like twenty male perceived characters,

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Speaker 1: even though there may not be human. Yeah. That's actually

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Speaker 1: something that's come up a lot in UM like conversations

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Speaker 1: around board games is that you're more likely to have

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Speaker 1: a board game cover with animals on it than you

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Speaker 1: are with women on it. Um they play, they do

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Speaker 1: play a lot of supportive roles. I guess she's like

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Speaker 1: miss Piggy, even though she's pretty bad as she's not

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Speaker 1: the main character is Yeah. Before though, like before the

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Speaker 1: Muppet Show, Jim Henson would do these late night programs

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Speaker 1: where he was always like shooting puppets out of a cannon,

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Speaker 1: and I, well, I mean, I guess you did that

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Speaker 1: a little bit then, but I feel like there was

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Speaker 1: some definitely more dark slapstick humor stuff he did and

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Speaker 1: then I wish, I wish that would continue. Now I

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Speaker 1: feel like they rely more on conversations the characters are having,

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Speaker 1: which can get a bit bapid versus just yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. They used to be so much more in love,

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Speaker 1: all of them. I felt like they had a real

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Speaker 1: family knit, you know, posy there. They all supported each

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Speaker 1: other in a very different way in the past than

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Speaker 1: they do now. But I'm really trying to rack my

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Speaker 1: brain for female for puppet things in the US main

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Speaker 1: dream that has female lead. I know there's one thing

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Speaker 1: because young female in Sesame Street who just they developed

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Speaker 1: her as having a family member who was addicted to

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Speaker 1: opia Trump. Yeah, and that's a female character, young girl young, right, young,

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Speaker 1: it's not a girl young. Yeah, I'm trying to remember.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I do love the old school antics of

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Speaker 1: who was that? Who are the two bantering men in

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Speaker 1: the audience up in the balcony. YEA love that we

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Speaker 1: have some more of her interview, but first we have

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Speaker 1: a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and

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Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back into the interview.

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Speaker 1: So you were also creator when you create puppets, and

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Speaker 1: you create different um art as for the specific types

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Speaker 1: of genres, do you think about gender specifics or what

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Speaker 1: what is your motivations. Is it just based on the

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Speaker 1: play or the idea, or do you base a play

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Speaker 1: an idea on your creations. I guess at this point

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Speaker 1: I have a repertoire enough that I can start to

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Speaker 1: be UM some similarities or like through lines that I

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Speaker 1: do UM, which has taken me a while. So I

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Speaker 1: have a personal element I really put into every show,

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Speaker 1: whether I draw in certain stories or information about my

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Speaker 1: actual family and incorporate it into what I'm creating, or

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Speaker 1: experiences that I've had, good or bad, and I put

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Speaker 1: those sort of feelings into the the piece. UM. I

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Speaker 1: guess in thinking of strong public characters, I feel like

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Speaker 1: at least been performing on a strong female puppeteer. And

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Speaker 1: I certainly know that there are other female puppeteers that

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Speaker 1: are standing doing a lot of solo pieces or sometimes

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Speaker 1: with a life band. There's you know, answers they're trying

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Speaker 1: to create in the theater. But the nice thing is UM,

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Speaker 1: when audiences come that we are, we are what they

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Speaker 1: first engage with UM, and then the puppet show sort

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Speaker 1: of pours out of us. So I have UH the

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Speaker 1: story of the Snowflakes Man, and it can't be helped

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Speaker 1: that the main character is Wilson Bentley, the guy who

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Speaker 1: took the first photographs of snowflakes. But I shrink myself

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Speaker 1: down into marry net form to go and meet him.

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Speaker 1: So but I totally play a part in the whole story,

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Speaker 1: and it's on a pop up book stage, but I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to, Um, I'm a proud Vermont and it's

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Speaker 1: a story of a Vermont farmer who took these photographs. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I just try to focus more on that of

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Speaker 1: the good characteristics for being devoted to your passion or

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Speaker 1: you know, making also your hobby your life, even though

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Speaker 1: that may not be the main source of income. Just

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Speaker 1: finding pride in what you do, um, which I think

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Speaker 1: works for any gen her And then wanted to show

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Speaker 1: that my pride for my Vermont heritage. I use photographs

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Speaker 1: that my grandpa had purchased from snowflake thatently when he

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Speaker 1: was a young boy. So it's sort of like a

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Speaker 1: love letter to my grandfather because he had passed away

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Speaker 1: and was, um the only grandparents I had left as

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Speaker 1: I graduated college and was the most like you want

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Speaker 1: to pack her bag and go to Germany, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the most encouraging person I had in

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Speaker 1: that moment where you know, my parents maybe thought I

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Speaker 1: was a bit more nut um, but there They've also

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Speaker 1: never told me that I couldn't do these things. I've

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Speaker 1: only been sort of shown that if you feel that's

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Speaker 1: the direction you want to go, and go, but you

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Speaker 1: gotta work for it, like you know, and so that

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Speaker 1: that I haven't ever really stopped trying to pursue this

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Speaker 1: as a career. And then some other shows. I'm doing

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Speaker 1: a new one called Dirty Girts, which is based on

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Speaker 1: something my mom said when she was little about her neighbor.

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Speaker 1: She said, she thinks she's Queen Elizabeth, but she's Dirty

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Speaker 1: Girts to me. So it's about middle school growing pain.

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Speaker 1: So I'm trying to highlight a bit more in this

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Speaker 1: new show. These two middle school girls who just can't

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Speaker 1: seem to get along. They're very judgmental of each other,

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Speaker 1: and then trying to find sort of a moment where

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Speaker 1: they have to feel some form of empathy for each other,

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Speaker 1: and even in the end that doesn't work out, they decide,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're still not super friends, but at least

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Speaker 1: they know that their way of you know, or my

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Speaker 1: mom's character's way of fitting in is to not actually

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Speaker 1: fit in at all. So this work she does in school,

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Speaker 1: going her own clothes, trying to look like characters from

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Speaker 1: the Vogue magazine just isn't her. Um, So that is

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Speaker 1: dirty girds trying to trying to express Yeah, I guess

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Speaker 1: some other some other ways. Right, No, it's awesome. So

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Speaker 1: I love that. So just looking at your website and

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Speaker 1: look going through your things, Dirty Guards and a Snowflake

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Speaker 1: man are very different types of set and different types

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Speaker 1: of puppets. What how do you decide what you will

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Speaker 1: do and how you will do it? Because it looks like, um,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty much all of the Dirty Guards is paper?

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? Am I saying that too? Simply? Um?

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Speaker 1: Or some like drawings and animation I don't know, not

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Speaker 1: really animations, but the artwork is amazing. But then when

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Speaker 1: I looked at the Snowflake one, you had a like

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Speaker 1: very lively set that's actual puppet. Correct? Maybe I'm just

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Speaker 1: looking at this wrong. But how do you decide how

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Speaker 1: you're going to present an idea based on whether it's

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Speaker 1: actual that small set? Does this make sense? Good question? Nope?

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Speaker 1: Nobody ever told me when I left school that I

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Speaker 1: should pick a form and become an expert at it.

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Speaker 1: So I come to learn that it's not common, but

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Speaker 1: there are some um puppeteers that do it. Where every

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Speaker 1: time I make a new show that I have a

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Speaker 1: new idea, sort of you just sit with it long

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Speaker 1: enough that you realized you can't shake it like you

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Speaker 1: have to or you know you're just gonna burst. So UM,

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Speaker 1: so I settle on this um idea. And typically all

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Speaker 1: of my stuff is not common. I didn't know snof

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Speaker 1: like Bentley would actually do as well as it has.

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Speaker 1: He's now part of like common core standards where so

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Speaker 1: I go to every state, even like New Orleans where

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Speaker 1: they've never seen no and the kid knows no ex Bentley,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of amazing. So my timing couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been better with that. But the rest of my stuff

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Speaker 1: is is really just UM made up and sometimes UM

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Speaker 1: time makes the difference. UM. Another piece I have, I

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Speaker 1: guess the first one I did outside of college is

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Speaker 1: a shadow show where there's a picture window and then

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Speaker 1: there's a grandmother and little girl, UM, and the granddaughter

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Speaker 1: wants to hear stories about the fabrics and the quilt

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Speaker 1: she's sleeping under. So she's like, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: hear a story. Makes me believe enough with the pray assessed,

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Speaker 1: it's already like I want to hear a true story.

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Speaker 1: And so that based on me pramming myself upwards into

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Speaker 1: the eighth grade, into my grandmother's chair and just like

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Speaker 1: tell me a story, we say, And so that is

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Speaker 1: me being able to express that moment. And um, then

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Speaker 1: when the grandmother tells the stories, the curtain come down

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Speaker 1: or the you know, over the window, and then shadows

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Speaker 1: are projected. So we go to backwards to her great

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Speaker 1: great grandmother who was on the underground railroad. And then

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Speaker 1: there's a story of an Irish memory quote which is

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Speaker 1: more of my family's component. And then the last piece

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Speaker 1: is a one room schoolhouse with the grandmother talked about

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Speaker 1: going to school the first time in a rag coat.

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Speaker 1: And the process of putting those together, with a lot

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Speaker 1: of late nights, not sleeping, lying in bed if we're

412
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Speaker 1: lying on ideas to pop in and then forcing myself

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Speaker 1: to turn the lamp on and write it all out

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Speaker 1: was just like just diving in completely thinking this has

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Speaker 1: to be done. This is a make or break moment.

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Speaker 1: I had already essentially books, the show. I work really

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Speaker 1: well with that pressure. I don't I don't spend all

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Speaker 1: the time. A lot of people do the workshop for

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Speaker 1: weeks and make sure they're ready to present. I just

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Speaker 1: go for it. And so yeah, just becoming absolutely um

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Speaker 1: only allowing my mind, no matter what I'm doing, to

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Speaker 1: think about that show and had allowed for the story

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Speaker 1: to come together, and then the allowing for continue going

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Speaker 1: to develop it once it's gout made. Having someone lean

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Speaker 1: in and say, oh, have you read this article before

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Speaker 1: or have you ever thought if you said this in

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Speaker 1: this moment would tie these other two things together. And

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Speaker 1: then you sort of grab at these different ideas and

429
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: and and mix them around. So the piece has grown

430
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: over the last there I say, how many years? Fifteen years?

431
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 1: And now the d I Y Makers movement makes it cool.

432
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: So when I first made the show, it was like

433
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: my grandma quill and now you have every age coming

434
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: up to you. Was like, I'm part of a quilting club.

435
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: This is what I do. I It's definitely time has

436
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,399
Speaker 1: been awesome for this piece and the advancement of the flashlights.

437
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: It's a flashlight technique where everything moves really cinematically, which

438
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: has been um really a nice thing to explore was

439
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: and that had been led to this whole other night

440
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 1: Shade Shadow Theater group I'm part of, where we do

441
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: far more adult horror style stuff more Pzu thirteen. But

442
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: taking these flashlights and making everything flow around more like

443
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: a film is also a newer technique in shadow propetry.

444
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: So it's taking like a traditional flat form and um

445
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: being able to modernize it and make perspectives. You can

446
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: like have multiple layers and when you move the flashlight

447
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: it kind of almost looks like a cartoon where each

448
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,719
Speaker 1: layer moves at a different speed and they all blend

449
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: into each other in this really great way, so you

450
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: can get depth. You can have change character perspective, like

451
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: have one head large and the other characters small, and

452
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,719
Speaker 1: flip it around so you can almost like a camera

453
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: turn the room around, which has been it's a great

454
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: technique for telling stories. That show was sort of like

455
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: the first solouette cutouts was a lot of just like

456
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: quick sketching cutting things out. I definitely I think spend

457
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: more time now to research inspiration for the style of

458
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: the cutout, because I really ended up recutting that entire

459
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: showy recutting recutting all the shadow puppets, all the paper figures,

460
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: based on gaining knowledge which I didn't really feel I

461
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: had until later in life, of how to look at

462
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: other forms of art and find inspiration from them. You know,

463
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: data is m or expressionism or just nature. So I

464
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: think and that that definitely has had the most influence,

465
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: and I would love to think other puppeteers getting started

466
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 1: or are pulling from these other places, because it's one

467
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: thing to sort of just look around and see what's

468
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: happening in pulfect treats another thing to look around and

469
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: see what's not happening and trying to do that. That's

470
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: sort before I commit. Does that answer that question? Yeah, No,

471
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: that's not so. It sounds like just like you get

472
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: ideas and then you started thinking about creative ways to

473
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: make those ideas come to life, whether it's through as

474
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: you were talking about the light work or uh, the

475
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: different forms of artwork, which is amazing and which is

476
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: a fascinating process because I can't imagine how many different

477
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: types of ways, especially with technology and the new things happening,

478
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: how many different forms are trying to be new or

479
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: trying to go back to old school, how do you

480
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 1: how does publically keep up with technology today? Is it

481
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: a good thing, a bad thing, or yeah, of course

482
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: it happens. Yeah, let's see how technology has advanced the form.

483
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot more people probably using technology

484
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: more to their advantage. I'm still like, I'm going to

485
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: make this out of wood and I make my own joint.

486
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: So a lot of things I do that are still

487
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: pretty I guess it could call them traditional informed because

488
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: I like creating every component. But one thing that I

489
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: guess has been pretty influential to me, and I do

490
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,239
Speaker 1: think for other puppeteers, is this about motion industry? Um,

491
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: which is like uh in working in that doing some

492
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: different commercials or made some costumes on Para Norman. You're

493
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: you're sort of brought in and it's like, oh, you

494
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: make puppets, cool, Well, we're stout motion. So and it

495
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: is it's a whole other way of building because you're

496
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: making something that doesn't move until you want it to,

497
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: and we, on the other hand, are making something that

498
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: moves until you have to find a way to use

499
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: the controller or the rods or the light to make

500
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 1: it stop. So, um, it's a totally different other way

501
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: of thinking, but they also have different techniques, different materials,

502
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 1: so as you get in there, they're like, we so

503
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: elements of the costume, but we also have this amazing

504
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: blue that you put a little heat to it and

505
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 1: it adheres things. And then it's that for you know,

506
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: the run of the project. And so it's like, wow,

507
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: why why am I going to the fabric store and

508
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: settling on what I see? Like they really opened me

509
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: up to the fact that's like, you can dye the

510
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: colors you want, you can take the trims and add

511
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: them to multiple other um decorations and then actually create

512
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: a new, unique something without having to just settle on

513
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: what you're finding in this store, like at space sort

514
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: of value Like that to me is great because they

515
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: are inventing every time they do a new movie, all

516
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: the colors, like, all of the designs, all of the

517
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: stitching techniques, so it's really up my game. So um,

518
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: and then they're also doing things like three D printing

519
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: and so now I know there are puppeteers who are

520
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: doing that, and I guess, um, the only ways UH

521
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: really use that is we've done by we my partner

522
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,719
Speaker 1: and art and love Jason. We've created with the curated

523
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: a music video for Japanther, and at that point we

524
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: have the puppets that are sort of scale and we're

525
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: building sets, and then you're like, wouldn't it be nice

526
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: if the bathroom had a soap dispense their three D

527
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 1: printer kind of kind of smile way you can do.

528
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: But I, for the most part in the work that

529
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: I do is public of Bob. Unless I find something

530
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: that's an antique dolls, something I really don't really don't

531
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: throw it in. I really make it using much more

532
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: out of date perhaps techniques. UM. But there are people

533
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: like um. The only example I can think of right

534
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 1: now is UM Hope Ford has this piece on migration, UM,

535
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: where this young girl comes to the US from Mexico

536
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: and having the monarchs my great sort of gives her

537
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: great comfort in this big transition. But he is performing

538
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: this puppet sort of partially attached to his knees, so

539
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: she walks by him moving his knees through this netted circle,

540
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: and then he has a projector overlay on it. So

541
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: it's kind of one of the best uses of that

542
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: element of technology, this sort of video stuff, to make

543
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: a much more dynamic and lively show. As a solo

544
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: performer because you can't you can't always do all the parts,

545
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: or you have to choose to or have one hang

546
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: and maybe the third characters looking up in the distance.

547
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: So I I think what's coming about is cool because

548
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: the puppetry has continued to progress over thousands and thousands

549
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: of years at this point, so I don't believe it's

550
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: a dying art form. I don't really feel it everyone away.

551
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: I can people rely a lot on how much it's

552
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 1: in the mainstream or on TV or on these stream

553
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: channels to prove that it's live, But there's so many

554
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: more of us doing stuff outside of that platform that

555
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: it hasn't gone anywhere. And I don't think it's at

556
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: its peak. I think it's really just starting to be

557
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: discovered the possibility. So even though I haven't really really

558
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: jumped in to some of these new three D forty

559
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: seventy effects um and it doesn't, it doesn't mean I'm

560
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 1: not supportive of others who are, because why not, why

561
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: not try at all? Sort of this puppetry is this

562
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: Unbrella word for just like being able to make a

563
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: figure and find a soul for it, and once that

564
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: soul is able to, you know, come to the stage

565
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: and the audience is believing it's alive and moving and

566
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: they're interacting. It's almost sort of like the point in

567
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: the middle where some of the audience's eyes and the

568
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: figure like connect wherever they see whoever that middle thing is.

569
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: It's just like when you believe it and that's that's it,

570
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: that's that's the puppet. Yeah. Um, I know nothing about this.

571
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 1: Any was the one that was like, Hey, I want

572
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: to do women in puppet try and I was like cool, cool,

573
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: And the more I get didn't hear about it. It's

574
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: really fascinating. It's so broad and wide ranging and and

575
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: so much talent and obviously patients and trying to create. Like,

576
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by people who can do art, and this

577
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: is one of the most intense level of artistry that

578
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 1: I think I've ever seen. Maybe I'm just a novice,

579
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: but like the details. Just going through your photos or

580
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: going through our own center for puppet tree rs and

581
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: see what they're doing is phenomenal. Um. How long does

582
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: it usually take you to create a puppet or a figure? What? What?

583
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 1: How long does it usually take to get that done

584
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 1: or completed? Yeah, that's the snowflake Man was an entire

585
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: year for sure. Then other things like them. I had

586
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: these larger mary NEETs, most of them made during studies

587
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: in Germany and Albert Grozer's studio with him and his

588
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: partner Ingrid His So we would be there for like

589
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: six weeks. We there was a painful of US Americans.

590
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: The bold Americans are like, hey, Rother, we want to

591
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,720
Speaker 1: study with you further. Can we just come to your workshop? Cool? Okay,

592
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: we'll be there in July and we're gonna we're gonna

593
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: spend two months, but at least a month. For those

594
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: it's just there's just no way. It just takes the time.

595
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: Or as you say, the patients, which often I don't

596
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: feel I have, but someone will always lean over and

597
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:36,240
Speaker 1: like wait for it. There. But those larger marry net figures,

598
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 1: you're you're carving the heads and you're carving the hands.

599
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: He wants. Um Rosa once said to us when we

600
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: arrived you your goal is to make a head and

601
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: shoulder maryette, which is this um type of marryingette. Uh.

602
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,879
Speaker 1: He created that has this controller that starts to sort

603
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: of the forty five degree angle where there's a piece

604
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: that's lose. Like a trigger you pull and it makes

605
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: the shoulders go back in the head go forward and um.

606
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: Just depending on what you make depends on what sort

607
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: of mood or story it expresses. So I'm going to

608
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 1: have two days. You're gonna make this head and shoulder puppet.

609
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 1: And we didn't sleep, literally for forty eight hours, all

610
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: of us. You're just carving ahead and hands and you're

611
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 1: trying to make it work. And so he comes in.

612
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: He disappears for that time. When he comes in and

613
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 1: we're standing there with these pieces, were like, we failed,

614
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: we failed, We've been't finished, we have had we have hands,

615
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: we don't we have paint at them, and he goes, yeah, yeah,

616
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: sometimes it takes me a whole year to make a puppet.

617
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: And the truth actually is in seeing him, compared to

618
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: some other artists, he would spend eight years or twenty years.

619
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 1: He would just take the time needed to make the

620
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: puppet that expressed what he wanted to put on stage.

621
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: It was not that I have to have a show.

622
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: I have to have you know, I have this tour

623
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: and all these things set up. He had this piece

624
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: that was like stuff when sent ensemble where he could

625
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: add a vignette and he could remove it. So he

626
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: would just spend his time trying to create whatever new

627
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: innovation he wanted and allowed it to take however long.

628
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: And I I don't have patience for that. I sure

629
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: know that I like I guess I do both. So

630
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: I have these marionettes that I've finally put into sort

631
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: of a vignette program, and I went just to Germany

632
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 1: last month and UM performed it along with Ingrid, who's

633
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: eighty two. So that to be on stage with Ingrid

634
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 1: performing two masks, which is the first time she's really

635
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: been able to get up and have a piece of

636
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 1: her own. She was always assisting Rosa with his shows,

637
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: which was very important and fulfilling for her for this

638
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: long time, and then since he passed, she's been able

639
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: to find her own footing on stage. And what she

640
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 1: does is beautiful, like she's taken everything she's absorbed and

641
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 1: can get up there and can have you feeling these

642
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 1: emotions by just her movement and the way the mask

643
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: moves into the light. The lighting is very important to

644
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: make the expression on the face change shape. And then

645
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: UM performed with Robin Walsh, another puppeteer from Los Angeles

646
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: who came. So it was sort of like our homage

647
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: I guess to Roser, just just sort of pay tribute.

648
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 1: But at the same time I feel them. This last

649
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: month was really about ingrid like it just it just

650
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: really has proved that you should never stop. It's just

651
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: I guess I'll retire when I die because A two,

652
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: she's popping up on the stage putting this mask on.

653
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: You don't you don't even know where she goes, this

654
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: whole other being Porto. I'm like, there's I have no

655
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: excuse not to continue doing this like this is that's

656
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: the that's it. That's it's so beautiful, just amazing. So

657
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like you guys have are you a found

658
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: a really close knit community? Is that something that is

659
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: been welcoming in this community? Let's say I wanted to,

660
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: Not that I would because I'm not as cool. It's creative.

661
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: That's not a dig all myself. I'm just I'm not.

662
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: But um, like, just are you Is it really opening

663
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: environment to have bring new people in? Is it to

664
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: grow to push? Like do you have? Because the people

665
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: we met, uh last week, Um, they were coming in

666
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: from Quebec, Yeah, to meet up the Atlanta crew, and

667
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: I thought that was really fun. They're about to go

668
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 1: back to where were they going? L A At one oh,

669
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: I felt like they were going to Europe. Europe. Yeah,

670
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: maybe so, maybe I'm wrong. Um, but is that is

671
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: that a basis for the whole puppetry community or is

672
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,479
Speaker 1: that just me living in an idyllic like fantasy of like, yeah,

673
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: they all hang out taco and do some art. Well.

674
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: I actually, um feel that you're in a great place

675
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, because any time I've come through Atlanta for

676
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: even a little bit, I feel like the puppeteers pop

677
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: out of everywhere and they're like, how do you have

678
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: a show? We're gonna let everybody know. You're like, yes,

679
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: thank you. It's just they're just so active. And then

680
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: in different places it can feel different. I feel like

681
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: there's certain places I love to go, like New Orleans.

682
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: This woman Pandora runs this giant puppet festival, so she's

683
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: just she runs the whole thing. She's just a fourth

684
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: and at the same time as creating and producing a

685
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: new show, to be in it and going there feels

686
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: so familiar like going home. We sort of have all

687
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,240
Speaker 1: I've found these sort of yeah, they're off the beaten

688
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 1: past festivals that I love going to, and then we

689
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: have like our national sort of Puppet Tiers of America festival,

690
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: and um, I think a lot of work is done

691
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: to be inclusive. But at the same time, I don't

692
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: know that everybody who's doing puppetry around the US knows

693
00:41:53,280 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: UM about that group. Yeah, Portland's up, Okay, a little back.

694
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to find one answer, because the answer is

695
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: yes and no. That's the hard that's probably with all

696
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: communities any kind of basis. But yeah, just something like

697
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: you found a good footing, um and just get people

698
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: to connect with which is awesome. I found a perfect,

699
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: perfect blend of weirdos. Yes, yes, I find that there

700
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: are places I go that are absolutely um inclusive. Atlanta

701
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: is one of the more awesome places, and then there

702
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: are other places where I guess the level of commitment

703
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 1: that one has to do to sort of be part

704
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: of the club or the group I can't do because

705
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: I do these tours where I'm I just don't sit

706
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: still very well. So I tend to to make myself

707
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 1: a family with whoever will let me show up and

708
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: a little bit of time, you know, use their shampoo

709
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 1: and leave awesome. In my head, I'm like, yeah, I could,

710
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: I could see where are some places is going to

711
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 1: be a little more involved than others and and just

712
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: fighting your group. It doesn't matter what it is. There's

713
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: gonna be great places in okay places we'll leave um

714
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:13,320
Speaker 1: and for you And just to kind of throw it

715
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: out there as a female coming into this profession, creating

716
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: your own shows and um being a part of you.

717
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: You've been part of a few really big projects. It

718
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 1: looks like, um, have you felt like there's any backlash

719
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 1: or any issues that you've had to deal with overcome

720
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: as a female in this industry? Guess? Guess. One of

721
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 1: the first jobs I got touring was with a family

722
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: of male performers where one of them tried to make

723
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: me his his his object essentially, so I had to

724
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: leave and it really it really puts a strain on

725
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 1: feeling comfortable jumping into anything. There's always a little bit

726
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: of a start up. But I think also by being

727
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 1: at times a solo performer, there's a lot to be

728
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: gained the confidence wise from that. It's like you have

729
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: to show up and be prepared to make every component,

730
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: at least at how puppetry roles. You do your own sound,

731
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: you do your own light, you do your own staging,

732
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: you do your own story. There's you know, and then

733
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: you can oftentimes find these great other artists who are

734
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 1: passionate of what the technique or the running the theater

735
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: or roxy my room and the puppet show place theater

736
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: is just such a great um strong female in that role.

737
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: I also think because she played rugby, because you're an

738
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: extra it um but you know, you you show up

739
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 1: and it's just like, you know, you have these spaces

740
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: to keep where um, yeah, you're made to feel like

741
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 1: you of course you can do any of these things.

742
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:52,839
Speaker 1: Do you need support or not? Like do you want

743
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 1: some of becoming and help with these things or do

744
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: you should get out of the way. That's kind of

745
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: kind of the yeah, finding finding that strength and taking

746
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: control of what you need to and you know, otherwise,

747
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: you know, show up to a new space and you

748
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: sort of sort of wait, what is this going to be?

749
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: How you know, how how friendly I guess can I be?

750
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: Because like that's that's the last thing I want to do,

751
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: is I think I'm you know, to be told that

752
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 1: I asked for something that I certainly didn't feel I

753
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: was was even was even there to do It's not

754
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: but not there for you. I was there to learn

755
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 1: this art form. But it's uh yeah, it's it's definitely

756
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: interesting too as a female performing marionettes there certainly it's

757
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: a much more male dominated forum here in the US,

758
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: But then it's a sort of a mixture. There's a

759
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: really at least great core group that go to some

760
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: of these more national festivals and they're just like, we'll

761
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: sort of yeah, talk to you just on the level,

762
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: like without looking at you like you're lesser. Then, but

763
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: there's there's short of you look around you're like, I

764
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 1: want female and it's the whole group of male marrying

765
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: at puppeteers. Wait a minute, where the rest of us? So,

766
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: how have you seen a change in that since you've

767
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: been in you said you've been in here in this

768
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: industry about fifteen years. Have you seen a change or

769
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: a progression of that? I guess I feel there's still

770
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: a pretty good blend with most forms of running into

771
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: what would be male and female puppeteers. But I I don't,

772
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think as I sit here, I

773
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: could name far more groups that are mixed or men

774
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: versus female, But that doesn't mean I don't know every

775
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: group either. So and there's no platform where everybody is

776
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: sort of existing, um sort of chiming in, Hey I'm

777
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: out here. If you ever roll through this random town,

778
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: you know, my guard just full of things. I make

779
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: them so you you don't. I don't know everybody who's

780
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: out there, but I, at least for me, I have

781
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: this great um my best friend. In college, there was

782
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: six of us who graduated from yukle on the year

783
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: I graduated, and my best friend Kaylee Clemmons and I

784
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: are the two who are most like puppetry is what

785
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: we do and we're not making a puppet. We always

786
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: joke that we're making a puppet because that's what we do.

787
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: So for me, I have I have a few strong,

788
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: um inspirational um women around another best friend, Carol Gegastino,

789
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 1: who is the shop manager at the Center for Puppetry Arts,

790
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: And I almost feel like that's probably all I need,

791
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: these few, you know, like I don't, you know, it

792
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: doesn't so much matter that I look around and don't

793
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: see an even spread at just I've got these and

794
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 1: that's that's it. That's the fuel to keep me going.

795
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: That's the when I you know there's an issue, call

796
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: and talk to them and they're just like, A who

797
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: needs that? Keep going? You go, you know, go do

798
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: this other awesome thing, and you're gonna show them. And

799
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: then they're gonna you know, I wish they'd been more respectful,

800
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: and you're like, that's fright to my art. I didn't

801
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: show them that I'm unstoppable. So you got your squad,

802
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: and that's good. You're good with that squad. We have

803
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more of our conversation here, but first

804
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: we have one more CREP break for word from our

805
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back

806
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: into it. One thing we talked about in our the

807
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 1: other interview we did is um how throughout history, the

808
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: history of puppetry, puppets have been a tool that was

809
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: used to criticize people in power when maybe doing so

810
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: in person was dangerous. UM. And then now these days

811
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: puppets are also used for therapy and therapy with children

812
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: or people have gone through trauma. UM. Is that something

813
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: that you've seen, like the power of puppetry outside of

814
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: making powerful art? Um, just other ways that maybe people

815
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 1: don't realize puppetry is used. Are also just what what

816
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,399
Speaker 1: is it that you about it that you think makes

817
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: it this powerful tool. Yes, but that's a very good question.

818
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes I think on that, and I wonder if because

819
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: the puppet like as human adults were giants. So when

820
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 1: you're doing some art therapy, specifically with kids, were like

821
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: monster sized, and then you have this small puppet, and

822
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 1: it's amazing what they will turn and say that they

823
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: feel comfortable, they have to help or protect or they

824
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,240
Speaker 1: are instantly engaging with this very small object that's maybe

825
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: on their scale or even smaller than them, and it's

826
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: amazing what can come out that. I think oftentimes an

827
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 1: adult can't get joy an adult. Um, I guess the

828
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: one example I have and it's not I wasn't there,

829
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: but my puppet was. I gave some puppets to my friends.

830
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: Um Bruce Lee actually a bad piper, not a martial artist,

831
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: but he did some art therapy and art teaching studies

832
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 1: and then UM got into a few schools in Vermont

833
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: and I, you know, said, I have these puppets. I

834
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: kind of made them that I'm not going to put

835
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: in any shows. Would you like them for your classrooms.

836
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: So he had a student who hadn't spoken yet, and

837
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: he was doing some art therapy and he pulled this

838
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: puppet out and the kid apparently started talking to the puppet.

839
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:01,280
Speaker 1: They really weren't sure a hundred percent what was happening,

840
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: but no one had heard him speak. So it's, you know,

841
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: has this ability to open up things for the just

842
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: being in Germany too and talking about because this is

843
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: kind of a new thing here. But they have their um.

844
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: What they kind of translates to psycho drama, which is

845
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: theater too, is like that, like art therapy. So this

846
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,840
Speaker 1: um boll and Eliza who I met, talked about before

847
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,280
Speaker 1: there were certain men to help with schizophrenia or people

848
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: who were catatonic and stuff. After the war, she had

849
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: a puppet that would come up to someone who was

850
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:41,760
Speaker 1: frozen who hadn't moved or spoken, and to the puppet

851
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: would sort of stay, you know, why are we laying here?

852
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: The sun is that, let's go outside? Why are we

853
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: laying here? The sun is that, let's go outside? And

854
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,399
Speaker 1: she said she would persist us. The little puppet would

855
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: tap on them and they would just turn and bash

856
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 1: the puppet away, or you know, because I don't want to,

857
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: you know whatever, and hearing her stories it's like this,

858
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,319
Speaker 1: you know, amazing tool forgetting things to come out that

859
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: otherwise I don't know. They just maybe I just don't

860
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: want to tell a stranger. But the pulp that's not

861
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: like however that works. Um, it's yeah, I think it's

862
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 1: so great that that's happening here, more so now that

863
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: I just m I guess I do have one, a

864
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: slightly more personal story, and you can choose your one

865
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: out of three or anyway. Yeah, let's see the some

866
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: Like the summer after I graduated Yukon, I went to Galesburg,

867
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: Illinois for this um sort of like what was it

868
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: like an artist residency and met this woman Lisa, who

869
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: was working in facility for Titled for disabled adults, and

870
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 1: they also had a sort of a kid's um summer

871
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: camp happening. So she asked if I would bring a

872
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: puppet show in. I had created this small shadow show

873
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: and would make puppets with the participants, but it was

874
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: all very quiet where the nurses and she were so involved.

875
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: But not everybody in this institution thought that art was

876
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 1: the best um way or the best means to help. Uh.

877
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: So I walk into this really amazing office that's got

878
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: some you know, generic we bought it the store pictures,

879
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: but at least there's color, and there's you know, something

880
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: in visually engaged. And then into a hallway that goes

881
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 1: just neutral, just cream colored walls all the way down,

882
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: looking in different rooms of adult sort of gathered in

883
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: wheelchairs or in chairs with nothing on the wall, just

884
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: room after room. It used to be like an an airplane,

885
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: making this room after room after room after room, and

886
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: just feeling the weight of like is this really? Is

887
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: this what you feel is the best way? Oh? My word?

888
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: And so get into this room which is already full

889
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: of adults because the time I was going to set up,

890
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: they felt was show time. So they are the happiest group.

891
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: They watched me set up my whole stage, watched the program.

892
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: I mean, we had such an amazing time together. And

893
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: then I bought into the next room where I have

894
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: things um for them to make, mostly textural stuff. So

895
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: as they come, you m to the table. There were

896
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 1: so many different things happening, so many different I guess

897
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,000
Speaker 1: should say special abilities, so some would just sort of

898
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 1: start grabbing, you know, father's tompon, soft boss off, sober

899
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: up the form, put it on, and they head off

900
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 1: all like super happy, like interacting, ready performing. And then

901
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: some didn't have use of hands, but you couldn't put

902
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,239
Speaker 1: the object or the you know, craft component near them

903
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,320
Speaker 1: and see a spark when you got you chose correctly

904
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: and so and that would sort of get glued on

905
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: and they you know, would sort of send be rolled

906
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: out the door like yeah, It's just it was like,

907
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: there's so much happening here right now. How how is

908
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: it I'm in this room having to be very this

909
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: is very quiet, Like no, you know, the main people

910
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: who run this institution aren't supposed to know I'm here

911
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: right now, but Lisa's gone rogue and it's like I

912
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: can only see benefit. And then I go to do

913
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: this summer camp program with these kids where we were

914
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: going to decorate masks and they were happy just putting

915
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: eye holes and a string and running around with the

916
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:44,839
Speaker 1: paper plate like yeah, like oh you don't, you don't

917
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: need more. You totally transformed so quickly, and then they're

918
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: running around having the best time. And then I went

919
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: home and cried, was like low, low, low, I mean

920
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: I watched that you know what's the the movie was

921
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: and Savage like plays the kid who's wheeled around and

922
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: eating thistication and it's not blowing. Well, I'm like, oh

923
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: my god, that that's gotta be based on a truth. Sorry.

924
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: So it's like, I mean, there's like such a joy

925
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: to be able to know that you had that, you

926
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 1: had that moment together. This was like this at the

927
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: moment you've created with this whole group of people that otherwise,

928
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, like I wouldn't have had it, and maybe

929
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: they would have had it with somebody else, but it

930
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: got to be me. And then at the same time,

931
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: I'm like so many dead looking rooms with no vironcy,

932
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: no color, you know, like, you know, the most cool

933
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 1: thing to look at was your neighbor con I love it.

934
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: So that was such a great answer. Thank you? Is

935
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: there Do you have any advice for people who might

936
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 1: be listening you might be interested in getting into puppetry?

937
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: Do it? Just do it? Yeah you got there first,

938
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: but yeah, I just at this point I do there's

939
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: so many forms. So if there's uh, you know, it's

940
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: hard to believe that someone um who is sort of

941
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: an adult who's wanting to get into it hasn't had

942
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: some forms of interactions. So it's like question, then you

943
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: know what is it? Is it a form of fear

944
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: or you haven't tried? Is it a form of art

945
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: that you want to try because you paint and you

946
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: sculpt and you realize all the components could come together.

947
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: Is it because you participated in something when you were

948
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 1: young and always loved it and I just think that's

949
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: those are all the great reasons to start, or just

950
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: because you want to know what? What makes a puppeteer?

951
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 1: You know, I love this form? What what makes Yeah? How?

952
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 1: Why why are you playing with Dolph? Will you are

953
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: grown up and buy it? There's um theaters everywhere, you know,

954
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: the Center for Puppetry Arts, the Puppet Show Placed Theater

955
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: and Boston, the Greaters On the Puppet Theater, the Northwest

956
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 1: Puppet Center in Seattle. There's there are places that as

957
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: your rolling around that you can call and and go to.

958
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: And these people are absolutely passionate and have examples to show.

959
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: They have collections, they have a variety of stuff. If

960
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: there's an artist whose work you see, uh, call them,

961
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: you know, I like I like to show you he

962
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 1: did where you you know, you know, whatever Body Dunk

963
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: and Squirrel fill my underpants. I love this show where

964
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: you dance around with the squirrel because you took your

965
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: underpants and you're like, can I come over? Why? Yes?

966
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 1: Like I don't. I've never said no to anyone who's called.

967
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: And it's like, I kind of have this puppetry idea.

968
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,800
Speaker 1: I have no idea. If it's gonna work, can I

969
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,640
Speaker 1: come hang out? And I'm like, I will have the

970
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 1: hot water and key ready. That's I mean, that's I

971
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: guess what you talked about community. That's um. If someone

972
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: shows an interest, I absolutely I feel it's worth trying.

973
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: There's so many books, there's so many platforms. I guess

974
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,959
Speaker 1: if you want to go online and chat that way,

975
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 1: I personally like to find people. So yeah, that's lovely.

976
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. We're big fans of like mentorship here. So

977
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: so when I'm getting when I'm ready, I'm going to

978
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 1: fly to Portland and come see youth is trying to

979
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: get a puppet made of herself so she can get

980
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: out of work. I'm trying to get someone to help

981
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: me make a puppet of myself so I can pretend

982
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:52,440
Speaker 1: that I'm at work and it will fool me. Completely.

983
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 1: That is absolutely doable. Now you just have to pick

984
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: which form you want to be right. Many decisions, so

985
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: many decisions. That's right. There Is there anything in the

986
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 1: future that you are looking forward to, either personally or

987
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: for puppetry in general. Yeah, well, I guess personally, I'll

988
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: start a part of this project called The Spooky Girls, UM,

989
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: which I guess talking about female lead characters. It's about

990
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: these young teenage witches and um working to make it

991
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: into a film. Again for me, it's also something new

992
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: that there would be an end product that could travel

993
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: around the world the places but even I couldn't get

994
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: to us quickly. Um. But the it's a group where

995
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: there's for four teen girls who come to know each

996
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: other in very different ways um. And so they are

997
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 1: in the sense of all the main characters UM. And

998
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 1: then there's sort of what's the short story? There's Yeah,

999
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 1: there's sort of toying, toying I should say, with rich

1000
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 1: witchcraft um and and through that something sort of turned

1001
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:09,440
Speaker 1: upside down for them. That then there are what's the word,

1002
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 1: you're not they're not erasable, so they have to then

1003
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: live their normal teenage lives with all these crazy games happening. Um,

1004
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 1: being able to work while I work with two other

1005
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 1: two other fellows actually on this more closely than Jason

1006
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 1: Thibodeau and Gabriel Timmy and the puppets are like a

1007
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: hybrid of puppetry and animation techniques together, so that is

1008
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: that is exciting. But it's been nice to sort of

1009
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: be the female force for when they're like, hey, we

1010
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 1: have this idea and like the girl and say it

1011
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: that way, so you can't you have to you have

1012
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 1: to listen to me, give you all the input or help.

1013
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: This is not happening right, um. But I'm excited for that.

1014
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: It's something totally new for me because I definitely spend

1015
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 1: more time on the stage. Um. And then for the

1016
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: future of puppetry, gosh, I love that so many other

1017
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: people at this point will just say hey, I'm a puppeteer,

1018
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: and then you get to find out to what level

1019
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 1: or degree or what percent of time. I guess, I

1020
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm fascinated with those things where it's like

1021
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 1: is this your everything? Is this year after school thing?

1022
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: Is this your evening thing? With email? But they'll be

1023
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: like resumes or little business cards of people who are

1024
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 1: like entrepreneur, actor, puppeteer, sculptor, and you're like, I need

1025
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: to know about all of these both specifically, let's start

1026
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: with puppetree. I feel like there's more, um, I guess,

1027
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: feeling much more confident and bold about saying it. And

1028
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 1: then through that, I think more opportunities are going to

1029
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: get created. Yeah go puppets that um where Well, first

1030
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 1: of all, thank you so much for joining us and

1031
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: having a conversation with us. Where can listeners for having

1032
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, let's see puppet kebab dot com. Um, let's

1033
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 1: see on Instagram as puppet Underscore Kebab or as the

1034
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: hand in the Shadow, which is a mixture of the

1035
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: adult shadow work and the spooky girls stuff. I guess

1036
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: those are the main the main ways I travel around.

1037
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: So if any any listener as a theater in your town,

1038
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:33,560
Speaker 1: do you know is starting to get into puppet you

1039
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 1: just send that information my way because I love going

1040
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,760
Speaker 1: to places that are unsure and then you know, I mean,

1041
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to like puppet stuff, but I especially love

1042
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 1: going to places where they're like, well, I guess we'll

1043
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 1: try it. Well, we got an audience and I'm like, oh, yeah,

1044
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 1: you will go peget listeners. Send that information her way.

1045
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 1: Give me the skeptics, yess one of the more radical

1046
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: do you help puppet cheers in their face? Don't you

1047
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: want to do this for every now once a month series?

1048
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: Let's go perfect? Absolutely perfect? Well, thank you so much

1049
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: for joining us, Thank you so much, Thank you for

1050
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 1: having me. I love the title of this podcast too.

1051
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: Mom never told you, never told me about puppets. I

1052
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: don't think my mom knows about pets. It's good. Well,

1053
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: my mom didn't tell me no to puppet so there

1054
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: you go. There you go. You probably knew I wouldn't

1055
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 1: listen anyway, And that brings us to the end of

1056
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: our second interview in women in Puppetry. Uh, if any

1057
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: of you want are doing puppetry shows, are working in puppetry,

1058
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: or if you're interested, like Sarah Afford and you know

1059
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: she she's it's pretty excited. Yeah, yeah, definitely reach out

1060
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 1: to her. And definitely yeah, someone wants to makeup puppet

1061
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,439
Speaker 1: of me. Oh yeah, Annie, Annie, and I Samantha would

1062
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 1: not turned that down either, throwing in the gauntlet down

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Speaker 1: the lazy as possible. Here you can help Samantha live

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Speaker 1: her best life. Yeah. So definitely feel free to reach

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Speaker 1: out to us if if you are doing cool work

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Speaker 1: in puppetry, or if he would if you're looking for

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Speaker 1: the contact and vote for Sarah or any any of

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Speaker 1: our other interviewees, you can do that via email. Our

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Speaker 1: email is Stuff Media mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast

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Speaker 1: and on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks

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Speaker 1: as always to our superducer Andrew Howard, and and thanks

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Speaker 1: to you for listening Stuff I'm Never Told You the

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Speaker 1: protection of I Heart Radio's how Stuff Works. For more

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Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,