1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: I feel like I know somebody else. You know, got 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,799 Speaker 1: Richard famous, some commutual friend was like, yeah, now now 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: his best friend is like the seventies six year old 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: rich guy, seventy six year old rich white guy. Like, 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: at some point those are going to people who understand, yeah, exactly, 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: How is Chris Martin your best friend? Jay Z? You 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 1: used to sell cocaine? How are you hanging out with 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: the dude who made yellow That feels a little off 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: my room? Chips in your names mans racist also mostly 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: money an stuff I can't tell me. Boom boom boom shoop. 11 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: There it is there, it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome 12 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: to another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the 13 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: podcast where we dive deep deep into the pockets of 14 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: black conspiracy theories and we worked to prove that Idris 15 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: album only jerks off to slightly younger pictures of Idris albums. 16 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: What do you want him to go on porn sits 17 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 1: and look at regular people? Fuck? No, that man needs 18 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: to look at himself. If Idris Elbow gets horny, he 19 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: goes and watches Tyler Perry's Daddy's Little Girls, and he goes, oh, 20 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: look at me ten years ago. A gorgeous man, a 21 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: beautiful man, and that's how he gets his rocks off. 22 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: He's a sick Oh, but I respected anyway. I'm your host, 23 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Leg Stinkerman. I'm happy to be here as always. You 24 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: can already hear my guest voice. I'm so happy he's here. 25 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: He's hilarious. He's such a great comedian actor. You know 26 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: him as one of the creators of Sherman Showcase. You 27 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: know him as one of the creators of south Side. 28 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: You know him from Marline hilarious. Formerly my boss. Maybe 29 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: he'll be my boss to give someday. Who knows what 30 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: the world will do, give it up for my guests, 31 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: the riddle everybody, thank you, thank you for that introduction. 32 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: Lengthen and uh, I was never your boss, man, I 33 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: was just I was the brother holding you back and 34 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: sabotaging you at every turn. You you would be a 35 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 1: full year ahead right now, but me and Sheer wouldn't 36 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: allow it. You cut me off at my knees, and 37 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: and I can't thank you enough. I cannot thank you enough. 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm so happy you're here. I'm happy to be here, man, 39 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: because you know, here's the thing I was raised in 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: a household of conspiracy theories, like my father and my 41 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: older brother, like, they would bring all these theories home, 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: and I knew not to trust the news. From the 43 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: age of eight. I was just like, oh, look at, 44 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: look at Reagan is a very popular president. They abuse 45 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: me of that very quickly. The truth. Yeah, But what 46 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: it did was it instilled in me a certain cynicism 47 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 1: and a skeptic nature that has stayed with me throughout 48 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: my life. I love that I listen as somebody who 49 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: lives in skepticism at all times. I thrive in it. 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: I'm just happy to hear that you were raised that way, 51 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: and I hope that you're raising your own children that way. 52 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: I hope you're offering them. I put them in Frother TV. 53 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: I say, believe everything. Here's here's why, because I'm using 54 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: them as moles, if you will, Like I'm literally going 55 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: to integrate them into the world, you know, and then 56 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: they can come back to me and tell me what 57 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: the conventional wisdom is. And that's that's the system I've 58 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: set up. As long as something corrupt is happening, or 59 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: at least building towards happening, I'm into it. Exactly. You 60 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: came with a conspiracy theory that I think, if I'm 61 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: being honest, is one that I I'm not sure that 62 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: I don't agree with. It's rare it happens on this negatives. 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go back and listen to this. Yeah, listen, 64 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to dance or three negatives because there's three 65 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: negatives that you don't believe it. Well, let's get into it. 66 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: You said, my mama told me Michael Jackson is innocent. 67 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: Let's define the word innocent. So you know what. Okay, 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: So here here, here it is, guys. I'm gonna be 69 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: very honest. I saw clips. I never saw the whole 70 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: you know, documentary Leaving Netherlands, but I saw some of 71 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: the worst moments on on clips. And here's the thing 72 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: I also heard and saw, you know, when I was 73 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: reading articles and doing follow up about the lack of 74 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: just the dates. Didn't that up? You know they do that, 75 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: They do that really ominous you know, zoom on the 76 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: picture of the train station. It never land. And then 77 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: it turns out that that train station didn't even have 78 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: that area in the year that they say it did. 79 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: And I think that there's something because I'm a huge 80 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: fan of true crime documentaries and I'll watch almost any 81 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: episode of Dateline. And you know, like when when Making 82 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: a Murderer came out, like I was watching that, I 83 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,559 Speaker 1: feel like it was actually making a murderer that really 84 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: showed me more than unsolved mysteries and all these other 85 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: ones that you know, just like any filmmaker, the people 86 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: who direct these documentaries, you know, they come to that 87 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: and I'm not one of those people. Was like, Oh, 88 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: it's biased, so you can't believe anything. No, that's not true, 89 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: but they do come with an agenda. And I just 90 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: think the people who made Neverland came with an agenda. 91 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: It's one person making a prosecutorial case against Michael Jackson. 92 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: Upon like just even like basic scrutiny, some of their 93 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: dates and timelines fell apart. Now, do I think you 94 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: start off by saying, do I think Michael Jackson is innocent? 95 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: I actually will go so far as to say that 96 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: I wouldn't want my kids in those relationships with anybody 97 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: much less. You know, I think you're you're speeding right 98 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: along into this, and I think you're doing exactly what 99 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. But I think Let's let's unpack 100 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: a little bit. Let's unpack a little bit of what 101 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: you said a second ago, because I think it's important 102 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: that from that Leaving Neverland documentary, which by all accounts 103 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: is a very sad, very heartbreaking tale of two young 104 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: men who, if what they're saying is true, we're sexually 105 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: assaulted over a long period of time by Michael Jackson. 106 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: But there is in fact a very clear case being 107 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: made by the documentarian to tell a story. What be 108 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: that story true or false? They're shaping a story, and 109 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: that does ultimately have a an effect on the way 110 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: that we understand what's happening out in the world. It's 111 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: it's got it's framing devices. And look, I knew when 112 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: I came on the show, I was like, do I 113 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: really want to talk about this? Definitely doesn't. I've definitely 114 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: talked to friends of mine who are like, no, I 115 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: saw that documentary and that was enough for me. You know, 116 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: I again, I will, I will point out that it 117 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: is one documentary, and I feel like you have to 118 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: look at a lot of evidence. Um, I was talking 119 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: to somebody who I who I respect a lot of 120 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, because he's a public figure, I'm not gonna 121 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: use his name. I actually know public figures on both 122 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: sides of this argument, but what I told him still 123 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: remains true. I think that Michael Jackson was maybe inappropriate. 124 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, like I again, I wouldn't allow my children 125 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: to those kind of situations, but like I wouldn't and 126 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: I would not. But I think it takes a step 127 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: further to go as far as to say that this 128 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: man was was sexually assaulting people. I just think that 129 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: that's just a step so far. Um. And that's not 130 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: to say anything against the people who bring those charges, 131 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: because obviously I think that everybody brings the charges needs 132 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: to be heard. But I do think that you know, 133 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: someone to some other high profile cases, you know, I 134 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: need to see the evidence. When I see the evidence 135 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: in this case, you know, falling apart upon like very 136 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: almost google, Google a bowl, you know, research, it just 137 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: makes me think it's this evidence legit. Well, I think 138 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: I think you said something really important in this and 139 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: it's sort of how you you kicked it off, is 140 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: that I don't know that even personally, I'm maintaining that 141 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson is like uh, peer of heart, Like I 142 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: don't I don't see him as an innocent man, as 143 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: much as I don't not a certain that every crime 144 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: he was sort of charged with or or accused of 145 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: is in fact one that should be placed on him 146 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: forever and always. Not just that I even say that, 147 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, before people just say, oh man, god, this 148 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: guy really likes Michael. I'm not the biggest my head, 149 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: and I just can I put that out there. This 150 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: is not I'm not the guy who had a thriller 151 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: poster on the wall, walking around with the glove. I 152 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: definitely was, definitely was the guy who thought that he 153 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: had some man albums. You know, as time went on. 154 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: I love that your instinct was like, let me be clear, 155 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: I want to distance myself from the music, not the man. 156 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: It's the music I'd like to distance myself from. Michael. 157 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: Jackson had an amazing run. Okay, he had amazing run 158 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: as a kid, and you know, I'm sharing always joke 159 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: about like, you know, do we have to cancel the 160 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: kid to Jackson? Yeah, little Michael. We can't love little 161 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: Michael anymore. Little Michael, if anything, was an absolute victim. 162 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: And that's nothing funny about that. But but you know, 163 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: like I'm not I just want to make it very clear, guys, 164 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm not making this case because i want to go 165 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 1: back and listen to a bunch of Michael Jackson songs. 166 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: And I've been a DJ since I was in college. 167 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: Of Michael Jackson's catalog I probably never need to hear 168 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: again in life. It's like hypnotized by Biggie. It's like 169 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: electric relaxation by a trick called quest. As a DJ 170 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: in the nineties, there are certain songs that they might 171 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: as well be respect by Ritha Franklin. I don't hear 172 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: a song I feel good Bye Bye James Brown. There's 173 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: certain songs I don't hear the song anymore. That's you 174 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like I got to hear a 175 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: song that I haven't heard ten thousand times in my lifetime. 176 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: So no, I'm not fighting for my right to hear 177 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: beat it. I do think. I do think there is 178 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: something really fascinating about people being like you know that 179 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: there is an argument that people are making where it's 180 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: like I want to hear I want to rock with 181 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: you for the hundred and eighty eight time this month. 182 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: That is my right as an American. It's like relaxed Dog. 183 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: You heard it it's the song You're going Nowhere. It's 184 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: exactly the way you remember it in your head. It's 185 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 1: gonna happen. No, Seriously, I feel like anytime I say 186 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: how I feel about Michael Jackson, I feel like I'm 187 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:47,599 Speaker 1: put in a position where all of a sudden, it 188 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: seems like I'm defending my favorite artists of all time. 189 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: I think that you know, I love Captain EO, you know, 190 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: as a kid, but like, I'm just not that guy. 191 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: So I don't want anybody to think that I'm making 192 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: a case because I like the artist. I'm actually making 193 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: a case because I'm really big. It's I feel the 194 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: same way about you know, when our outgoing president says 195 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: that there was voter fraud, like, okay, show me the fraud. 196 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: Can't do it, then I'm not believing you. You know, 197 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: with this one, I would like to have, you know, 198 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: maybe somebody has to do the counter leaving Neverland and 199 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: present that evidence. But even though they're Neverland hanging out 200 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: and never Land perfectly never Land, you are here. I 201 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: think you you brought us into this via the leaving 202 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: Neverland vehicle, right, and I'm curious to know how you 203 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: felt in the in relation to like his earlier accusations, specifically, 204 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: like you know, when comes around and they're saying, Michael Jackson, 205 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: is you know, assaulting a young thirteen year old boy? 206 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts then? Were you on the side 207 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson? Were you in disbelief? Did you not 208 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: care because you had heard enough of his music over 209 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: at this point, I should probably say that bye. I 210 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: feel like most people listening to R and B by 211 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: that point had moved on from Michael Jackson, like Michael 212 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: was distinctly a pop artist who, you know, just who 213 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: wasn't at the center of the culture anymore so to 214 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: a certain extent, it didn't. It didn't that was said. 215 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: It didn't rock my world in either direction. I'm just 216 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: gonna speak in Michael Jackson titles. There's a lot of them. 217 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: You got, I know exactly. The way you make me 218 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: feel is your criminal, Michael, and I am still dealing 219 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: with the man in the mirror. You're dealing with the 220 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: man in the mirror. I want to see. I was 221 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: waiting for you to try and slip in like Eery 222 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: and Girls. I couldn't listen. I couldn't get to a 223 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: second one. I'm not that quick, but we'll get there. 224 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: He listen, let me let me gosh, how serious do 225 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: we want to get Let me just go on the 226 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: record is saying that is the survivor of not the 227 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: worst abuse, but but there there was definitely there was. 228 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: There was a weirdo on my street, and definitely he was. 229 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: He was showing some of us kids some stuff that 230 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: we didn't need to be seeing. So I guess you 231 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: could you could say that I'm a survivor in that sense, 232 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: and I've never I've never said that in any interview anywhere. 233 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: So it feels weird. It feels weird to make that publicly. Know, 234 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: like there was a weird on our street. He showed 235 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: us like some some pornographic cartoons. I'll never forget going 236 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: to my mom and saying, hey, look, there's a weirdo 237 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: on the street. Like I am one of the main 238 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: people who feel like there's no exception to the rule, 239 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: Like if someone is doing inappropriate stuff with kids, I 240 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: am the father of three children. I want that person 241 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: mud stop. You know what I'm saying. I just I 242 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: feel like there's no there's no put and and to 243 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: a certain extent, I want them treated because I also 244 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: recognized that, like, it's probably in some ways more of 245 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: a mental illness than we used to. So so just 246 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: physical violence against that person it is probably not going 247 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: to solve anything. I mean, like, if anything, I would 248 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: love us to figure out ways to treat people with 249 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: those proclivities so that you know, maybe we can do 250 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: away with it, like the measles. Well, I think I 251 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: think you're getting to something that's really important that often, 252 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: I think, especially with celebrities, goes overlooked because we're constantly 253 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: defending their artistry or defending like the goodness that we've 254 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: built in our minds about who they are. Is that 255 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, whether Michael Jackson was 256 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: in fact sexually assaulting kids or whether to his to 257 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: his admission he was just laying with them and you know, 258 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: having like sleepovers and ship he was an unhealthy person. 259 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: This is objectively, it's not even for graphs. This is 260 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: an unhealthy person who needed a type of treatment that 261 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: people weren't willing to give him because they wanted to 262 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: defend his character first, or you know, uh, defend his 263 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: music first. And that's a problem. Yeah. Again, I think 264 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: that we should never make excuses or allowances for people 265 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: because we like their craft. You know, their craft is 266 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: one thing. But you know again, these are children. These 267 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: are the most vulnerable, and we have to you know. 268 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: I I can feel myself even getting more and more 269 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: serious about this as we talk about it. But it's 270 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: just because I don't want anybody here in the first 271 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: five minutes of this conversation and be like, oh man, no, Lizza, 272 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: you're doing the right thing, and you should make sure 273 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: that that's clear from the beginning of all and and 274 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: of all of this. But I will say that that 275 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: planned at the beginning of the interview and then run 276 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: the rest we do. Do it called open. Maybe I'll 277 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: make it. I'll make it a real serious the beginning 278 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: because I don't I don't need the hate me. I 279 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: will say that even to the point you're making the 280 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: idea of like needing to protect the innocent. A lot 281 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: of times what we do is like, well, he made 282 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: this amazing song, so I need to defend that. And 283 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: it's like, bro, that kid he hurt might make a 284 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: better song. Let the kid grow up to make the 285 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: thing that you might also appreciate, maybe more than anything 286 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson did. I would refuse anybody whoever defended Michael 287 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: on the base of his music. Now to go back 288 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: to the crepx of the show, which is about conspiracy, 289 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think that there's like a cabal, 290 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, at Sony Records. It's like, what, we really 291 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: want to get him to sell the catalog to the Beatles, 292 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: so we're gonna bring him down. I don't I don't 293 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: think it operates like that. This may be less of 294 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: me believing in a conspiracy theory and more of me 295 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: believing that the conventional wisdom might be overlooking some stuff. 296 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: I think it's very easy for South Park and other 297 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: people in our field like to punch at Michael Jackson 298 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: because he's the easiest of target, right, yeah, yeah, he's yeah, 299 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: he's he's by the way, he's dead, so really easy target. 300 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: All that's Michael being alivement with two pat that's not 301 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: my that's not my wheelhouse. But I do believe that, 302 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: uh you know, I think it was very easy for 303 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: the industry to believe it because he did come across 304 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: as sort of like a weird person. I do think 305 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: that there are people in society who are they might 306 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: just be sort of a sexual and I think that again. 307 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: That's why I think that Michael, having been robbed of 308 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: his childhood, really did you know, in his rich Man bubble, 309 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: because we have the rich Man bubble is the thing, 310 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: you know, convinced himself that it was normal for him 311 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: to have sleepovers like he was like the rest of 312 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: the kids. I think. I think too, that Michael's choices 313 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: were very clearly informed by the childhood he lost and 314 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: whether or not he then and then he didn't have 315 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: anybody in his life to sort of interested and be like, no, Mike, 316 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: don't do this, you know what I mean? Like, I 317 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: feel like the families, the Jackson family is so big, 318 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 1: and I don't know any of them personally, but I 319 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: just I wonder why I'll put it like this. Marlon 320 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: Wayans is a good friend of mine, and I'm always 321 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: impressed by like whenever you see the Wands family together, 322 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: like they're constantly keeping each other check, Like you know, 323 00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: there's no way that any of them will ever become 324 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: true weirdough because they all just kind of check one another. 325 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: And I find it hard to believe that the Jackson 326 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: family that there wasn't somebody in the Jackson family, but 327 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: maybe it was maybe it's the original Jackson. Well, you know, everybody. 328 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: Here's the problem is that, uh is that with the 329 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: way Ins family. To your point, they've all in various 330 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: ways gone on to do things for themselves and make 331 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: awesome ship. So when they have a conversation, they're checking 332 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: each other. Almost said, not as equals, but sort of 333 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: closer to equals. But the issue is Jermaine didn't make thriller, 334 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: and so he has to kind of shut the funk 335 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: up when the conversation kicks in, do you know what 336 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: I let's talk about it, right, Let's talk about it 337 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,199 Speaker 1: like nobody listened to Randy, you know, Marlon Jackson, like 338 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: he apparently had based based in his voice. Apparently, like 339 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: you know, nobody was listening to anybody else. No, that 340 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: part is true. I also think just again, I feel 341 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: like there's not even a funny point. It's probably just 342 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: a real point. There's a big difference between how how 343 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: Lands the patriarch raised an amazing family of sort of 344 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: well adjusted individuals, and then you got Joe. And I 345 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:17,360 Speaker 1: think this understood that Joe, you know, he produced Michael 346 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 1: and LaToya, And I mean, like I feel like Rebye 347 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: must have just been ducking stuff because she seemed to 348 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: come out really normal and Centipede is a classic. So 349 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: if y'all recover Reby, I might defend her on the 350 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: basis of music alone. You have to be clear, you've 351 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: defended Reuby for her music harder than you've defended Michael 352 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: for his and that's done the classic man Centipede. Listen, Yeah, 353 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: don't don't say nothing bad about Reby. I won't take it. 354 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: I think. I think exactly to the point you're making mabies, 355 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 1: this is it. I mean Reby's this is it. Let 356 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: me see how she pulled together her out. Joe Jackson 357 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:02,280 Speaker 1: created a toxic environment that all simately was guaranteed to 358 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: turn people into difficult figures. It doesn't matter whether or 359 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: not we see them as monsters or heroes, None of 360 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: that matters. The point is that type of environment doesn't 361 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: allow somebody to grow up normal and healthy, as we 362 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: sort of like have standardized. Yeah, I think listen, you 363 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: know his tendencies as a father have greatly helped our 364 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: music collection. Yeah, but I do feel like it did 365 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: leave a trail of destruction and returned himself into a 366 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: kitty cat. Before he died, he looked like a goddamn 367 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: human kitty cat with threw all those surgeries and the hats, like, 368 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: you know what, how did this how did this cute 369 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 1: kitty cat do such horrible things to this family of children? 370 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: That's all you know, black, hello, kitty walks into the room. 371 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: You don't assume that he's a monster. So and by 372 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: the way, again, this is sort of us going off 373 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: of what we've been told, you know, but it's here now, 374 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: the kidnicap artist fact. That's that's objectively true. We're gonna 375 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,479 Speaker 1: believe our lying eyes all that way. But you know, 376 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: it's funny, man, because nowadays, I feel like as time 377 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: goes on, I sort of start to question some of 378 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: the things that I've heard about famous people in general, 379 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: like because you know, you understand how things can get 380 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: exaggerated or just made up, Like you start to understand that, 381 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, some of the things that we've been told 382 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: all our lives might not even be true. But I 383 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: do feel like, you know, again, with the with the 384 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: Joe Jackson thing, I feel like there's enough evidence to 385 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 1: back it up. And with the Michael Jackson stuff, it's 386 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: just you know, even going back to ninety three, there 387 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: was always a part of me like, well, maybe there's 388 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: a way to prove it totally. You know, again, I 389 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 1: feel like it's it's dicey because, as is often the 390 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: case with sexual abuse, it does come down to a 391 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: case of you know this person said versus this person said. 392 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: So it's you may not get the nice, clean evidence 393 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: that you see. But again, I think that's why documentarians 394 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: who do documentaries like Leaving the Netherlands don't mess up 395 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,479 Speaker 1: two or three key facts, because then it's just like 396 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: if you're in an argument and people you you might 397 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: be making the best point you've ever made, but if 398 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: you throw out a statistic and somebody immediately debunks that, 399 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: it just throws shade on everything else you ride. And 400 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: especially now, I think we live in a society where 401 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 1: people are constantly trying to find ways to delegitimize basic 402 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,479 Speaker 1: evidence or or de legitimized basic arguments. And so to 403 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: that point, if if you're being irresponsible in the way 404 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: that you're presenting information that you know to be true 405 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: or false, then you're going to be held accountable, and 406 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: maybe not in a way that's fair. Always that like 407 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: these need Leaving Neverland documentarians very well could have been 408 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: making a very valid case against Michael Jackson's but by 409 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: omitting huge sections of information for their own wants, you're 410 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: basically opening yourself up for people to be like, I'm 411 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: not gonna believe it. I'm not gonna listen to it. Yeah. 412 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: And by the way, you know that that to me, 413 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: that train depost story that they tell in there, it 414 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: just sent me right out, you know, like to know 415 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: that that wasn't true to just sent me right out. 416 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: And it's almost like to go back to true crime 417 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: stories and Dateline. You can tell that in COVID. I 418 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: can watch Dateline because it's just it's real people. That 419 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: that's the part that I can't get over. And the 420 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 1: thing on Dateline, it happens like every five episodes or so, 421 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: there's always like the prosecutor who didn't introduce a piece 422 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: of evidence that he knew about that kind of like 423 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: you know, this guy is guilty, but there is a 424 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: piece of evidence that, like, you know, would not help 425 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: your case. And eventually the defense finds out about it 426 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: and they bring it forth and then the whole city 427 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: gets tossed out. That all your hard work is done. 428 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: So you know, if anything, I would just say, you know, 429 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: just fact check and then double fact check. My wife 430 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: and I have been watching a ship ton of unsolved mysteries, right, 431 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: so good, Right, I love unsolved mysteries and and the thing, 432 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you'll feel the same way. The thing will. 433 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: Unsolved mysteries almost every episode is the police ain't shit 434 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,879 Speaker 1: like the entire that's always the theme. Yes he murdered her, 435 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: yes he stole these things. It's always the things are 436 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: arguing are never false. But the police weren't ship in 437 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 1: every single episode, which means that this evidence doesn't get 438 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: taking care of the way it's supposed to or found, 439 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: and then ultimately this person is missing forever and always 440 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: because y'all didn't do your jobs. By the way, you 441 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: bring up a funny point. Because of my wife, I'm 442 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: always like, let's wish that's alve mysteries, and she's she 443 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: gets frustrated because you know, she's like, I prefer mysteries 444 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: that get solved. Like she's just like, I can't take 445 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: this because now I want to know what happened to 446 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: Alonzo Brown. By the way, speaking of Alonzo Brown, they're 447 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: finding out information about a lot of these cases. Yeah, 448 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: I think that so you know, like I love a 449 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: good unsolved mystery man that that's that's by the way, 450 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: just but by the way about unsolved mysteries. Even there, 451 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: you know, they have different directors for every episode. And 452 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: this goes back to Finding Neverland, which is that there 453 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: are episodes of that show where I can tell that 454 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 1: they're trying to get me to like a person, where 455 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: I can tell though that like I would not like 456 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: this person, yeah, or they'll they'll gloss over something, but 457 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: you can read between the lines. There was one episode 458 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: where it was very clear to me that the guy 459 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: was kind of a war hawk, you know what I mean, 460 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: Like he was in government, he was kind of a 461 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: war hawk, and they kind of and I would not 462 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: suggest that because he's a war hawk he should die, 463 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: but I'm just saying that, Like there was sort of 464 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: like a strain of like that old fashioned sort of 465 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: free trump George W. Bush, Uh, he was a patriot. 466 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: They were kind of going and I was like, uh, 467 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: it sounds like he was. It sounds like he was, 468 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: you know, trying to topple democratically elected government. Yeah. I 469 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: know exactly which episode you're talking about. It's the one 470 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: where the dude like they have all that footage of 471 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: the dude wandering off and then he magically is sort 472 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: of like found in that in that big trash up 473 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: in the in the dump and the dump landfill. And 474 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: to that point, I totally agree. They go they skip 475 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 1: past a whole bunch of like the murders and atrocities 476 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: that he was probably a part of throughout all of 477 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: the nineties and two thousands, just to be like he 478 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: was a retiree, he believed in America, and it's like, yeah, 479 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: but dog, he wasn't innocent. This ain't And by the way, 480 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: they were sort of hinting that like maybe because he 481 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 1: had helped CIA operatives overseas, that maybe somebody had gone 482 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: to him. I was like, to me, this looks like 483 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: a man who is suffering from a mental breakdowns. Like 484 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: it was. It was so obvious to me, Like and 485 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: you just got the sense of nobody in the family, 486 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,239 Speaker 1: nobody in the family couldn't been to it. And I'm 487 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: laughing because now I'm like that we could, you and 488 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: I could easily do it Mysteries podcast. As soon as 489 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: we cracked this, Mike, Okay, we're turning this bad boy around, 490 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: he did back up Olivia. We got one more round 491 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: to go, and it's about unsolved. We're gonna take a break. 492 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more diallo, riddle and more, my 493 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: mama told me. And we are back. My man's supposed 494 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: to sch meat his meat with this ship. Bro, what 495 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 1: the fuck? Yeah, we're back here with more diallo riddle, more, 496 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: my mama told me. We're still talking about Michael Jackson 497 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: and the possibility that he might in fact be innocent 498 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: kind of of the crimes that he's being accused of, 499 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: the crimes that would get him locked away, not necessarily 500 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: being the most healthy and no, he's not a healthy person, 501 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: and he's certainly uh you know, has a lot of 502 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: things that he probably needed help unpacking that nobody could. 503 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: But maybe he didn't do it, maybe he did. Who 504 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: the funk cares? The man died ten years ago at least, 505 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: it's that's amazing that it doesn't quite feel like a 506 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,520 Speaker 1: decade to me. But then when I think about where 507 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: I was ten years ago, then it's like that was 508 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Yeah, exactly. Okay, let's let's get into 509 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: some of this research, because I do think to the 510 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: point that you were making about the way that celebrity 511 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: sort of controls our interpretation of the things that are 512 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: happening out in the world. One of the things that 513 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: I immediately sort of like latched onto in sort of 514 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: doing this research was the massive amount of celebrities that 515 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: came out even after the Leaving Neverland documentary to defend 516 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, there were still like ship tons of people. 517 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: So that included Corey Feldman, McAuley, Culkin, Haraldo Rivera, Kanye Way. No, seriously, 518 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: I have, but I have. I have kind of an 519 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: obsession with Corey Felman. Feel like, listen, Corey Feldman and 520 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: Corey Haynes. It's a function in my age, like those 521 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: were my heroes. They were they were in my you know, 522 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: not the same way like Martin Luther King. I have 523 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,719 Speaker 1: like a mural on the wall with like Malcolm, you know, 524 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: Michael Martin and I want to believe, I want to 525 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: believe that you had a painting in your house with 526 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: Malcolm X baptizing Corey Feldman while Martin Luther King watched 527 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: on like that, Tyrese Bain with Corey, with the other Corey, 528 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: the other Corries in heaven watching this all down. You know, 529 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: every every every black screenplay writer I know has that, 530 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, Martin and Malcolm script in their back pocket 531 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: about what about a Corries from a blackpoint. I don't 532 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: know cories, the Brothers stories, the brother Corries. Uh, you 533 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: know they were coming up in Hollywood when it was 534 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: severely messed up for child actors. And I do think 535 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: that I talk about is it even a conspiracory? I 536 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: believe everything that Corey Feldman says about you know, some 537 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: powerful person in Hollywood who was who's basically going from 538 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: set to set up using the child actors. I believe 539 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: because I don't think that he I don't think that's 540 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: something that anybody would ever make up. And that's what's 541 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: fascinating about the Corey Feldman of it all. And granted 542 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 1: I also think that he falls in the category of 543 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: somebody who is unwell, but I think what's fascinating is 544 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: he he has been somebody who's been very open and 545 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: honest about the the experience that he had getting sexually 546 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: assaulted as a child, and remains to this day somebody 547 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: who's like, but Michael adn't do that to me. Michael 548 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: was he he left me? That wasn't our energy was not. 549 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: He was like, that wasn't the problem. He's like Mike 550 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: Michael just wanted to be one of the kids. But 551 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: then there were definitely abusers out there, and you know, 552 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: they messed up Corey Haim for life, which is tragic 553 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: because I do go back and I watched movies like 554 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: The Lost Boys and some of their other movies, and 555 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, I used to watch Corey Aim and 556 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: Feldman working. To me, this was comedy, you know, the 557 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: kid who played Chunk and the Goonies, like that was 558 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: comedy to me. I go back and I look and 559 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: he's he's a lawyer, him in him in short round 560 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: ak data uh, the Asian actor, Like they just bounced 561 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: from the industry. What kill What kills me is then 562 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: like I watched how they deliver some of their lines, 563 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: and I'm just like, oh, yeah, gosh, you know what, 564 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: as a kid, and maybe even as a dope, if 565 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: I ever say those words, that's typically how I say 566 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: them because it got so ingrained in me. Like so 567 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: when I say my heroes like they were the kids 568 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: who made me laugh, I think that they were going 569 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: through that torment really just makes me sad. So yes, 570 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: Corey Feldman. You know, he defended Mike. He was like, 571 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: Mike was not the problem. Yeah, and and even you know, 572 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: other defenders. Macaulay Culkin, when asked about it, basically said that, like, 573 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: there was never any incident between them, And then people 574 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: asked like, well, what do you do with the fact 575 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: that you were, in fact sharing a bed with the 576 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: man who was twenty two years a senior. And he said, 577 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: and this is a point that makes sense to me 578 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 1: at now as an adult, is like, and not in 579 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: the way that I think they were right to share beds, 580 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: but like it makes sense as an argument. He was like, Hey, 581 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: that was my peer. I would who was I can't 582 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: hang out with my classmates. I'm a the most famous 583 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: child on this planet Earth, So Michael was closer to 584 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: like a work colleague than anybody else I could have. Yeah, 585 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: and it makes me wonder, like where McCauley's parents were. 586 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: I mean, like, again, that's why I've always said that, Like, 587 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: it's not that I think Michael's innocent. I think it 588 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: was grossly inappropriate on Michael's behalf, super questionable judgment. I 589 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: would cancel my friendship with another parent if I thought 590 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: that they were allowing their child to do that, And 591 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: I think that's that's so important. That's the degree in 592 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: which I am not here to say the man's innocent. 593 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm actually arguing a very small point that 594 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: not everybody who's inappropriate is trying to do specific you know, 595 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: the specific things that were alleged against him. And that's, yeah, 596 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: the only thing I'm here to say. And I think 597 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: even more important what you're saying is like, there are 598 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: so many people who were consenting parties in whatever this 599 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: behavior was. His parents, agents, managers, a lot of people 600 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: were helping to book these flights to Orlando and block 601 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: out trips to Disney World so that these boys could 602 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: spend a day with Michael Jackson, regardless of whether or 603 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: not they believed or didn't believe that he was committing 604 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: some sort of crime against these Let me be very clear, 605 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: these parents are the Camille Cosby Michael scandal. Sorry, Camille, 606 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: but you came downstairs a few times. You had to 607 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: see some Camille you fucked up, and we're calling you 608 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: on your bluff. Camille, we know what you're up to. 609 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, like, that's a family I fight. 610 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 1: I hated to find that out because, like, you know, 611 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: my father was a painter. In a good year, he 612 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: could sell a piece to a Sydney potier. Cosby bought 613 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: some of my father's art, Like in around sixty nine seventy, 614 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: Camille's brother owned a gallery in Santa Monica, I want 615 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: to say, and he was not a friend of the family, 616 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: but like he was close enough that like any time 617 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: he had an exhibit, my father's pieces were almost always 618 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: up on the wall and we would go in there 619 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: and it was just it was fun to hang out 620 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: with Eric. Brother's name is Eric, you know. It was 621 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: just they were such an outstanding family that you know, 622 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: and and for a long time before he decided to 623 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: come out against black youth in the mid two thousand's, 624 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: like it was just so cool to just think of 625 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: it was what Cosby represented, you know, I feel like 626 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: to the community. And I think to that point this 627 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: and it really goes back to what we were talking 628 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: about earlier, is if we need to start working on 629 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: a way of removing that level of like desire, want 630 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: from our psyches right in the way that we see 631 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 1: celebrities and see these big name people, because at the 632 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: end of the day, that was just a family. It 633 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: was just a man, his wife, their kids. They're face 634 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: like in that. That doesn't mean that he's good or bad. 635 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: And unfortunately we later found out not good. He falls not. 636 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: That's the thing, Like, I feel like there's so many 637 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: good families and they're actually you know, I feel like 638 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: I know a couple. There are a lot of decent 639 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,200 Speaker 1: people who are really famous and really wealthy. There are 640 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, decent people. It's just when 641 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: you find out somebody who's an icon. And I mean, 642 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,960 Speaker 1: by the way, the eighties, if you if you had 643 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: gone in the time machine and pointed in like the 644 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 1: biggest you know, celebrities at the time, Bill Cosby, Prince, 645 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, you were like, one of these people is 646 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: never really gonna have a sex scandal. Prince would have 647 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: been on anybody's list. You know. It just goes to 648 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: show that, like you don't always know what's going on 649 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 1: in people's life, no matter what personare they put out 650 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: there exactly. We would have all as student Prince was 651 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,919 Speaker 1: the freak, and it turned out that he wasn't at all. Yeah, 652 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: you mean that dude, uh in a mesh in a 653 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: mesh tank top is going to be the most decent 654 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: three of the Black Lingerie on the back of Dirty 655 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: Vine album, like, yeah, exactly that that guy is pretty 656 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: damn normal. He doesn't smoke, drink drug and he's probably 657 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: gonna knock on your door and try to tell you 658 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: about getting into heaven or yeah. But otherwise he's actually 659 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Guys, He's a really cool guy. I'm sorry 660 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,480 Speaker 1: we were strayed from our mission. No, let's I had 661 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: to jump out there. Let's get into some of the 662 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: hard facts and has nothing. Wade Robson, who was one 663 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: of the the two accusers in the Leaving Neverland documentary, 664 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: testified in the two thousand five trial against Michael Jackson, 665 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: where he maintained that Michael never demonstrated any inappropriate sexual 666 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: behavior with him. Now in two thousand and eleven, however, 667 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: Robson approached basically the co executor of Michael Jackson's estate 668 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: and asked about directing the circued dos Sole production of 669 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, and was later turned down by the estate 670 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: for the position. A year later, Robson then comes out 671 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: with his book, or at least attempts to come out 672 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: with a book alleging the sexual assault from Michael Jackson. 673 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: And so to your point, this is one of the 674 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: things that doesn't really come up in the documentary is 675 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: the number of times that Wade. I think they mentioned 676 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: that he flip flops whatever, whatever, but they're not mentioning 677 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: sort of like the details in which sort of potentially 678 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: could be leading to his change of heart regarding Michael's behavior. Yeah, 679 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,240 Speaker 1: and you know, again, let me be very up front. People, 680 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, survivors and sexual abuse change their story a 681 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: hundred times. So you know, like obviously he could have 682 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: been covering for those years, isn't you know in the 683 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: year after Michael died, he might have thought, you know, 684 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to take something negative and turned into a 685 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: positive by you know, because I think you know, even 686 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: he would probably still recognize the genius of Michael's just 687 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: purely his dancing craft, and he probably wanted to be 688 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: a part of that on you know which I've seen 689 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,919 Speaker 1: that show and it's actually a really good show. Um, 690 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 1: so I'm not the a and that's not why I'm 691 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: here to I want that to be your big inclusion. Listen, 692 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: the show is uh, that's I have to defend. I'm 693 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: not here to defend the Beatles, but I love love. 694 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm not here to you know, I think that I 695 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: want to be very I don't want to be a 696 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: boring guest, but I want to be making clear I'm 697 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: not even here to attack Wade because I don't know 698 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: what the man has seen. And there is definitely a 699 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: world where they got some of their facts wrong in 700 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: that documentary. And this man needs all our sympathy and 701 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: all our all our heart of what you've been through. 702 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: And I think to that point, to exactly the point 703 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: that you're making, there is a very clear chance, and 704 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: it's not even a chance, it's a high possibility that 705 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: Wade is a victim of a type of trauma that 706 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: he repressed these memories, He repressed these feelings. He was 707 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,760 Speaker 1: still thinking about Michael as a figure who he loved 708 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,799 Speaker 1: and cared about and didn't want to disappoint. And that 709 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: allows him to go into the trial and say this 710 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: person didn't hurt me, when in fact he did and too, 711 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: and even even say that, like, you know, Corey felt 712 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: he might have never tried anything with Corey felt me 713 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: might never tried anything we call culkin. You might have 714 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: never tried anything with anybody. But the two people you 715 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: know in the documentary, You know what I'm saying, because 716 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: in a weird way, maybe if you want to ascribe 717 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 1: to him, like you know, sinister thoughts, they're not famous 718 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: like those other people, you know what I'm saying, So 719 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: like there's definitely a world in which he did it 720 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,080 Speaker 1: one time, and one time is far too many. So 721 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: you know, again, I I to me, I think your 722 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,480 Speaker 1: point is actually more valuable in the sense that, again, 723 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,879 Speaker 1: if the documentarians knew something like the facts that you 724 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: are bringing up, they should probably throw that in there 725 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: so that it doesn't seem like they're cherry picking their evidence. Yes, 726 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: And I think that's the larger point here is that 727 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: And you made it from the beginning that this really 728 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 1: should just be about full transparency and allowing people to 729 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: make their choice from there. And unfortunately, and this is 730 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: where I sympathize with the people making the documentary, is 731 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: that at the end of the day, even if you 732 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: do give people the full evidence, a lot of their 733 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: choices are being made based off of celebrity and the 734 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: wants that they have for these people more than an honest, 735 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: objective look at the facts that are laid in front 736 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,240 Speaker 1: of them. So like, yeah, I'm gonna, you know, cherry 737 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: pick because y'all niggas wouldn't gonna believe me anyway, So 738 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: here we go a fun and fun is a heavy 739 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 1: word in this conversation, but a really interesting I should 740 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 1: I should have picked a conspiracy theory that involved, like, 741 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: you know, people who who are terrible people, but go 742 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: ahead that we've had to do. Oh j we've had 743 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: to do. Uh r Kelly, he ain't the worst, I think, 744 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,399 Speaker 1: but one of the more interestings. See I think our Kelly, well, 745 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: see now now I'm speaking on famous people who have 746 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: also never met I believe it in our Kellis case, like, 747 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,399 Speaker 1: I just don't think in that case the dates add up. 748 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: The girls have said what they said, Like, you know, 749 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: I'm just like, where's the evidence that it's not true? 750 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,920 Speaker 1: You know? Right? Like in r Kellies case, I'm just like, 751 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: I'm not with that. I don't think most people are 752 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:36,240 Speaker 1: defending anyway. One of the more interesting arguments that Michael 753 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: started to make in regards to what was happening from 754 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: the case all the way to the two thousand case 755 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: was about this dude, Tom Snedden. Do you know who 756 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 1: Tom Sneddon is? Have you heard of him? He is 757 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: the prosecutor on both cases. So the prosecutor for the 758 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: case that's eventually thrown out that Michael n has to 759 00:41:55,680 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 1: pay like twenty million dollars of uh, you know who 760 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: you have to the kid and his family, basically like 761 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: saying like a you know, to get rid of this, 762 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: to make this go away, let's I'll give you money 763 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: and we'll we'll squash That's what happens in But then 764 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: Michael makes the argument that Tom Sneddon, who was that prosecutor, 765 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: builds this vendetta against him that he wants he like 766 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,240 Speaker 1: spends the rest of his the nineties and two thousand's 767 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: trying to find a way to take Michael down. And 768 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: so Michael says, and this is an argument he makes 769 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: that Tom Sneddon, in fact, in like the early two thousands, 770 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,680 Speaker 1: leaks up with Tommy Motola, who is the head of 771 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: Sony Music at the time, to intentionally tank Michael Jackson's career. 772 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,279 Speaker 1: And so when the Invincible album comes out in like, 773 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, early two I think it's like two thousand 774 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 1: three whatever it is, and it doesn't do well and 775 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,320 Speaker 1: it's sort of just isn't selling the way that Michael 776 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: Jackson albums are traditionally sold. Michael claims that it's because 777 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: Tommy Matola is not giving the right marketing. Is like 778 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: strategically working against Michael uh In in an effort to 779 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 1: basically see tom Saidon's ultimate destruction to the end. Okay, 780 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: here's where I think I can. I can win some 781 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: people who probably hate me back. Don't think. I don't 782 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: think anybody I hate to hear, and I hear this 783 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: all the time. There's nothing worse than somebody is saying that, 784 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: Like the reason that they're not getting the marketing money 785 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,720 Speaker 1: for any creative project is the result of a grand 786 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: conspiracy that starts with like the d a's office. Like 787 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: that is absurd to a whole another degree. I'll tell 788 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,799 Speaker 1: you right now, there is a project that The Sheer 789 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:44,960 Speaker 1: and I have worked on. I'm not gonna say which 790 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: project it is because I'm not Dave Chappelle and I 791 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: can't call anybody out. But like, the marketing was so 792 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: not what I wanted it to be, you know what 793 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: I mean? Like I just thought, you know, you put 794 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 1: more people. This is one of our shows, and I 795 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 1: feel like both of our shows. I feel like Southside 796 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: in Sherman show Case. I don't feel like either of 797 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: these shows have ever lost a fan, but I do 798 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: think that in both cases, quite honestly, I think it's 799 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 1: okay to say I think in both cases more could 800 00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: have been done, More can be done to let people 801 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: know that these are shows that they should want. Yeah, 802 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: you know, like the people who watched Southside reach out 803 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 1: to me all the time. They're just like, I think 804 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: this is the funniest show, and why am I not 805 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: hearing about it the same way I'm hearing Bassett Mother's shows, 806 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 1: And the same with Sherman Showcase. They're like, this show 807 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: is so funny and different. You know, I don't know 808 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 1: why I have because we were on i f C. 809 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 1: Now we're on AMC. It might be a completely different ballpark, 810 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: but because that's a much bigger station. But like, you know, 811 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,440 Speaker 1: I'll even taking a step further. I won't say, but 812 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: there's a very famous writer producer in this business who 813 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 1: a lot of people who aren't even in the business though, 814 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,319 Speaker 1: because you know he or she is just you know, 815 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:56,760 Speaker 1: they're just very very being prominent. They're very unhappy right now, uh, 816 00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: with the way that their news shows are being marketed, 817 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 1: and you know, marketing dollars are what people compete for 818 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,879 Speaker 1: at Netflix. So you'll get like Ryan Murphy and I'm 819 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: trying to think of somebody. I don't know, Ryan Murphy 820 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: is somebody else. I know that they'll they'll literally be like, 821 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: you know, you got to promote my show, Like, don't 822 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 1: depend on just the algorithm, promote the show. And they're right, 823 00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,560 Speaker 1: Marketing money is the hardest thing to come about. These 824 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,919 Speaker 1: marketing off They're not getting phone calls from the deep 825 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,359 Speaker 1: State saying you gotta sink the next season of you know, 826 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: Love is Blind because we're not happy with somebody else 827 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,279 Speaker 1: the business works. I think that's a fair point, but 828 00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,720 Speaker 1: I will add that Michael Jackson also maintains that Tommy 829 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,359 Speaker 1: Montola was a racist and that was part of his enthusiasm. 830 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: It was part of his enthusiasm enjoying forces with tom 831 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: Snedden in the first place. That he's like a racist, right, 832 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 1: That was Sony. He was ahead of Sony. I think 833 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,120 Speaker 1: that Sony had a little bit of it in for 834 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: Mike just because yeah, he had he had formerly been 835 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: one of the biggest artists, but then at some point 836 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: he became like this you know, giant albatross for them, 837 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: and I do think that, you know, because it's not 838 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,360 Speaker 1: like you can pay him way less money for a 839 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: new album, you know what I mean. And and the 840 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: people at Sony argued there are executives at Sony that argued, hey, man, 841 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: maybe don't have so many scandals about pedophilia, and we 842 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,840 Speaker 1: can put more money behind you in a way that 843 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: that you would like. Now it is worth sound less absurd. 844 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,600 Speaker 1: It starts to sound less absurd. I'll give you that. 845 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: It is worth noting that there is a news conference 846 00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 1: a basically like a press conference that Michael Jackson hosts 847 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,120 Speaker 1: at one point with Al Sharpton and Johnny Cochrane. I 848 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: think Johnny is in the room, but he isn't up 849 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: on stage. But it's Michael and Al Sharpton spirit brother, 850 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,120 Speaker 1: you know what it is. But but he has a 851 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: press conference where he and Al Sharpton are on stage 852 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: age basically accusing Tommy Motola and Sony and the music 853 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: industry as a whole of being racist and sort of 854 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 1: like strategically corrupt against black artists. And at one point, 855 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: this is my favorite thing, Michael. Michael refers to Tommy 856 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:20,839 Speaker 1: Motola as a meani, a racist and very very very devilish. 857 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: That's what he says. I'm telling you, man Um, I 858 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 1: think to be rich, black and mega famous in the 859 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: nineties was too essentially and I'm giving a lot of 860 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,880 Speaker 1: benefits of down here that I think it was essentially 861 00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 1: to bump up against. You know, two things at once. 862 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: One was on on the executive table. There were no 863 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 1: black exect unless you were like Andre Horrell or Puffy Like, 864 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: you were not going to come across L. A. Reid 865 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,600 Speaker 1: was doing something at the time. Actually baby Face might 866 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: have been too, but there was there was. There's a 867 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,399 Speaker 1: different generation and a different breed of white executives sitting 868 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,560 Speaker 1: across the table. So if you can imagine being sort 869 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: of like a black and consciously black person having to 870 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,400 Speaker 1: deal with some of the nonsense and some of the 871 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: some of the assumptions that the people you were dealing 872 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,479 Speaker 1: with across that table, I can hardly blame them for. 873 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: I mean, just think about the number of people who 874 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: went out and found the Nation of Islam to provide 875 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:22,439 Speaker 1: them security thing back then, Like it's like I don't 876 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,399 Speaker 1: truss off duty. L A. P. D. Are you kidding me? 877 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: Like I don't. Nowadays everybody hires the off off duty police, 878 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: but like back then, like it was definitely like ice cube, 879 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Michael Tyson, like everybody was hiring the n O. 880 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 1: I I can't even imagine they were reaching out the 881 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,320 Speaker 1: owl but sharp and you know, like it's just I 882 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,800 Speaker 1: can't imagine what they were probably putting up with. I 883 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,920 Speaker 1: will say there is something very ironic though, of Michael 884 00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: Jackson at this point in his career, sort of claiming 885 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,720 Speaker 1: racism is the issue when he has been and maybe 886 00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,120 Speaker 1: it's because of the Vida Lago, but he basically is 887 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: now completely white. And everybody we know up into this 888 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,800 Speaker 1: point in your life has been a white person holding 889 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,520 Speaker 1: your hand, be it a sweet little white boy, or 890 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:10,160 Speaker 1: be it you know, fucking the white Diamonds, Lady Elizabeth Taylor, 891 00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,040 Speaker 1: like every person in your life, Uh as far as 892 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,000 Speaker 1: your your inner circle goes as a white person. And 893 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,279 Speaker 1: now you're like, yeah, Tommy Mottola is trying to take 894 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,400 Speaker 1: me out. I think that was Quincy still in his 895 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 1: life at this point. I think Quincy had probably I 896 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,839 Speaker 1: think Quincy had moved on. I think Quincy Diana Ross 897 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 1: is still there. I think Diana ros is still there, 898 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 1: but she's not necessarily in the popular This is what 899 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,160 Speaker 1: there needs to be a term like for like, I 900 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,759 Speaker 1: feel like Kanye is in as the Calabasas phase and 901 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 1: right like you're basically living in a gaming community surrounded 902 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,320 Speaker 1: by a bunch of those parent teacher conferences at Pacific 903 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: Palisades High School are like really intense, and I think 904 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,080 Speaker 1: that at some point you're just like, oh, this guy 905 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,719 Speaker 1: drives a model X like I do. Okay, ALRIGHTY has 906 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 1: to shared stuff in mind, you know though, Yeah, I 907 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: don't know. Apparently you can only go in one of 908 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 1: two directions. You're either gonna go Nation of Islam or 909 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,240 Speaker 1: your or like your entire circle is going to be white, 910 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 1: and so like there has to be a happy medium. Um, 911 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,279 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I can say. Hey, I'm looking 912 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,080 Speaker 1: for somebody to figure it out. Here's my favorite part 913 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: of this entire controversy that that happened is that Michael 914 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 1: Jackson at one point was so angry and so sort 915 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,439 Speaker 1: of put off by what Tom Sneddon is supposedly doing 916 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: to him in his life his career, that he in 917 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 1: fact made a distract against him, a distract I don't 918 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,759 Speaker 1: know Michael to do distra I feel like, you know 919 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,920 Speaker 1: what I said, I didn't remember, But now that I 920 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:41,960 Speaker 1: know the role that this guy plays in his life, 921 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 1: now I'm absolutely right. I feel like I can see 922 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: this guy's like he looks like one of those like 923 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: he looks like a semi valley type guy who's like 924 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:55,239 Speaker 1: really got it in Michael Jackson, Michael makes Michael makes 925 00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: a distract that ends up on the history album called 926 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,480 Speaker 1: Where It's called e S and it refers to a 927 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,279 Speaker 1: guy named dom Snedden because he didn't want to he 928 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,400 Speaker 1: didn't want to get in trouble. He wanted to do 929 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,120 Speaker 1: a sub sub tweak exactly. So he has a full 930 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,560 Speaker 1: song about an evil man named dom Sneddon and the 931 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,759 Speaker 1: chorus of the song goes, dom Snedden is a cold man. 932 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 1: Over and over again. He repeats dom Sneddon is a 933 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,800 Speaker 1: cold man. And that's how much Michael felt. Dom Snedden, 934 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,160 Speaker 1: Tom Sneddon a Tom Sneddon was trying to ruin his life. 935 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: And somebody in that studio was like, Mike, we can 936 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,440 Speaker 1: make this a B side, it can be off a single. 937 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,240 Speaker 1: Michael was like, no, this makes the album. This Michael album. Michael, 938 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,799 Speaker 1: just wait five years, there's gonna be these things called 939 00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,839 Speaker 1: mix tapes, and you can just put it on there. 940 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 1: We'll get a dark child. He wants to ork with you, like, 941 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: we don't have to put this on the album. You're like, nah, 942 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:58,920 Speaker 1: this has to be the first. Exactly have you heard 943 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,919 Speaker 1: shots fired yet? I love that? All right, We're gonna 944 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: say one more break and we'll be back with more 945 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:19,920 Speaker 1: Diallo redo and more. My mama told me, and we 946 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: are back. If you want to reach those kids on 947 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: the street, then you gotta do a rep, do a 948 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,399 Speaker 1: hip hop beat. So I gave my swimming an urban kick. 949 00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,720 Speaker 1: My rhymes are flying, my beats are sick. My crew 950 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,240 Speaker 1: is big, and it keeps getting bigger. That's because Jesus 951 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:44,560 Speaker 1: Christ is my NA. Yeah, we're back here with more, right. 952 00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,319 Speaker 1: I feel like that's not the first time I've heard that. 953 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,520 Speaker 1: But what is it from? I don't know. I found 954 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: it on YouTube and it's like, I think this like 955 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: uh youth pastor type thing. It's like a public access 956 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,880 Speaker 1: with a bunch of people trying to convince people to 957 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,000 Speaker 1: come to God. I guess I can't tell if it's 958 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,840 Speaker 1: real or not. It's I love it more than anything. 959 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 1: Fun fact, my whole first experience in television is public 960 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,560 Speaker 1: access because my brother basically ran public access in Atlanta, 961 00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,160 Speaker 1: and my brother is twenty one years older than me. 962 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,160 Speaker 1: So my first time in a TV studio, my first 963 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,080 Speaker 1: time on camera, all that stuff, when I was eight. 964 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 1: It was because Tony was basically running People's I forget 965 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,760 Speaker 1: it was called People's Network Atlanta, which was our all access. 966 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,239 Speaker 1: So you were just saying the worst of what television 967 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 1: could be, and you were like, yeah, television was I'm 968 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 1: gonna make this just somebody in a black box theater 969 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,319 Speaker 1: saying horrifying thing. At three am, I had a show 970 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,960 Speaker 1: called Wild and Crazy Kids, and me and my and 971 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: my nephew who was obviously my same age as me 972 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,919 Speaker 1: because he was so much older in our neighborhood friend 973 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: we would get up there and just do like really 974 00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,200 Speaker 1: low rent, you know, parodies of our favor for it 975 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,759 Speaker 1: movies and songs. And it's amazing to me because I 976 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:08,720 Speaker 1: feel like that is exactly what I do in Sherman show. 977 00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,480 Speaker 1: I've been doing it since I was eight, But now 978 00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,880 Speaker 1: you've got some resources. Look at that, looking, guys, I 979 00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,759 Speaker 1: can afford two wigs and one fake gun. Now, so 980 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,959 Speaker 1: life is good. Hell yeah, alright, let's let's play a game. 981 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,360 Speaker 1: I have a very fun game that I'd love to 982 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,440 Speaker 1: play with you. This game is a little something I 983 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:35,520 Speaker 1: like to call homemade hotel. Okay, the way that this 984 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,520 Speaker 1: game works diallo. I am going to introduce to you 985 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 1: a true fact, a standard fact that it's sort of 986 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,120 Speaker 1: understood in the world. That doesn't have to be a 987 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,400 Speaker 1: fact we all know, but it is, in fact a fact. 988 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,319 Speaker 1: And what I would love for you to do is 989 00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: turn that fact into some hotep ship, really flip it 990 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,800 Speaker 1: on its head, and tell me all the deep, dark 991 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,960 Speaker 1: secrets that might be hiding underneath that fact that the 992 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,440 Speaker 1: world doesn't want us to know about. I'm here to 993 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,880 Speaker 1: spit truth. Yes, spit that truth. Go crazy here. It 994 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,399 Speaker 1: is the fact that I will present to you. It 995 00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,839 Speaker 1: turns out that high heels were first designed for men, 996 00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,040 Speaker 1: that at the end of the sixteenth century, Persian inspired 997 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,160 Speaker 1: style was all the rage in Europe, and high heels 998 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,240 Speaker 1: were now being marketed to men and originally were market 999 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:25,600 Speaker 1: to men as a presentation of a man's virility and masculinity. 1000 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:31,719 Speaker 1: Talk to me about what's underneath that fact. Yeah. Well, 1001 00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,839 Speaker 1: I mean, here's his, his honest truth. That's what they 1002 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,560 Speaker 1: don't want to tell you. Those heels usually were sharpened 1003 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,160 Speaker 1: to a bit at the end, you know, like the 1004 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:45,680 Speaker 1: heel park, and the men would walk over their slaves 1005 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,560 Speaker 1: and indentureus service. That's how they kept them in charge. 1006 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,080 Speaker 1: That's why I always tell you, know, we should not 1007 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: be black women should not be wearing heels because that 1008 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,080 Speaker 1: is a weapon. I mean, you would wear like, you know, 1009 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,920 Speaker 1: whips and chains like, don't wear heels. That that was 1010 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,320 Speaker 1: a weapon of that. That. Ma, don't do that. Masterly 1011 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:07,680 Speaker 1: Donna come in with this hilly boost and he's gonna man. 1012 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:09,560 Speaker 1: And now you've got all these people talking about I 1013 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: got red bottoms. Red bottoms was the blood of the slaves. 1014 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:18,319 Speaker 1: Oh no, oh no, masters on his catwalk, Get the 1015 00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,960 Speaker 1: funk out of here. Do you know? Do you know 1016 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: the real history of Lubaton. I don't tell me. Christian Lubatan, 1017 00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,640 Speaker 1: terrible slaveholder? Oh ship is that true? Yeah? I'm just here. 1018 00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,960 Speaker 1: I'm just here to god damn Christian lu Baton. If 1019 00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:34,879 Speaker 1: I could say your name the correct way, I'd tell 1020 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: you you're the goddamn devil. I hate you. There you 1021 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,600 Speaker 1: gome Man. Well that was beautiful. You you nailed it. 1022 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,280 Speaker 1: What a fun time? Diallo? Can you tell the people 1023 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,360 Speaker 1: at home where they can find you, what cool ship 1024 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,880 Speaker 1: you have going on? Any of that? You know. Sherman 1025 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,719 Speaker 1: Showcase is always on Hulu. You can watch season one. 1026 00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,040 Speaker 1: You can watch the Black History Months Spectacular, which I 1027 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,560 Speaker 1: think is just if you've never seen the show before, 1028 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,240 Speaker 1: watched the Black History MS Spectacular. It's an hour long, 1029 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:03,080 Speaker 1: but it's some of the best work that we've ever done. 1030 00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,440 Speaker 1: Um so check that out on Hulu. More importantly, to 1031 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,120 Speaker 1: all the fans of south Side south Side, we'll be returning. Uh, 1032 00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,160 Speaker 1: we will be shooting season two. By the way, I 1033 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 1: want to I want to say this on here. I 1034 00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,160 Speaker 1: need you in season to a Sherman Showcase too. We 1035 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,800 Speaker 1: wrote a great comeback for Smokey. Robin's beautiful. You are 1036 00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:24,840 Speaker 1: are in house Smokey and it's a it's a nice, 1037 00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,000 Speaker 1: big chunk of an episode. So you're coming back for that. 1038 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,120 Speaker 1: I love it. For those of you who are real 1039 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:31,880 Speaker 1: south Side fans, I mean you've got Alan Gale and 1040 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,280 Speaker 1: Adam Bethune talking to one another. So see clearly we're 1041 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,120 Speaker 1: not in means in real life, but you will see 1042 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,640 Speaker 1: both of them in Spain like you will see so 1043 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,920 Speaker 1: much of them in season two. I don't want to 1044 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,760 Speaker 1: give anything away plot wise, but season two south Side, 1045 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,280 Speaker 1: we haven't shot it yet because of COVID. But if 1046 00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:51,800 Speaker 1: this vaccine works and we can get another of our 1047 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,840 Speaker 1: heads to take it, because that's a whole other conspiracy theory, 1048 00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,680 Speaker 1: or is it really to speaky? If we can get 1049 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,760 Speaker 1: this black ass the people in Chicago to take an 1050 00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,760 Speaker 1: experimental drug, we can take a television show. We might 1051 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,880 Speaker 1: have to give Barack himself up and said and be like, look, guys, 1052 00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:14,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself. We will shoot that in April 1053 00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,720 Speaker 1: and May and the first half of June. We will 1054 00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:19,720 Speaker 1: edit it in the summer, and we will hopefully get 1055 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,720 Speaker 1: that to you on HBO Max in the fall. And 1056 00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,720 Speaker 1: this is where you can actually, Hey, if Dachapelle can 1057 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,600 Speaker 1: get his stuff taking off of Netflix, I want you 1058 00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:32,520 Speaker 1: guys to pressure, email, text, whatever you guys gotta do 1059 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:35,440 Speaker 1: to HBO Max. Let them know that you want to 1060 00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,800 Speaker 1: watch season one of South Side now right now. I 1061 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,880 Speaker 1: think there. I think their plan is that they wanted 1062 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,880 Speaker 1: to come on sometime during the summer. That is too long. 1063 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: That means it will be an off the air effectively 1064 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,000 Speaker 1: for two years. We don't want that. Get it on 1065 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,080 Speaker 1: HBO Max sooner that I don't. I don't know what 1066 00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 1: their number is, but you can, you can d M, 1067 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: you can, you can, I don't know, leave comments on 1068 00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,720 Speaker 1: HBO Max postings, but tell them you want to see 1069 00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,040 Speaker 1: south Side on HBO Max sooner rather than later it 1070 00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:05,720 Speaker 1: cause I don't think it costs them anything to do it. Uh, 1071 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,280 Speaker 1: And we would love to We would love you to 1072 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: have access to that on HBO Max sooner than left. 1073 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,240 Speaker 1: You heard it here, Folks, go to HBO Max. Don't 1074 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,560 Speaker 1: you dare watch the Belle's show. You absolutely must request 1075 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: south Side instead. Uh, even though they're both made by 1076 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,960 Speaker 1: the same monster that eats our souls. We're looking for 1077 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,800 Speaker 1: this monster to help us out and get to Southside 1078 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,000 Speaker 1: on the age. We just want people to see the 1079 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:31,600 Speaker 1: labor of our hard work. Linksn knows this because he's 1080 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,720 Speaker 1: one of our extremely talented writers. We worked so hard 1081 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: on south Side a great show and it's a great show. 1082 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 1: So just like if if you got to just buy 1083 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 1: it on iTunes or Amazon, but sincerely, like we just 1084 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:44,600 Speaker 1: want you to see the show. So that's all, yeah, 1085 00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,800 Speaker 1: and please follow the ALLO online. Was your simple I'm 1086 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: just at and on Instagram, on Twitter and Instagram so 1087 00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,680 Speaker 1: cool sons letters, d I A hellllo, hell yeah and 1088 00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,520 Speaker 1: uh as always, you can follow me at Linkston Kerman 1089 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,200 Speaker 1: on all of those things, and please if you have 1090 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,360 Speaker 1: any drops, If you have any cool things you want 1091 01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:07,360 Speaker 1: to send us, you can send it to my Mama 1092 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:10,320 Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. Feel free to like and 1093 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,360 Speaker 1: subscribe and write me in comments if that's what you're into. Otherwise, 1094 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:23,600 Speaker 1: goodbye forever, take care of us my crop chips in 1095 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:36,960 Speaker 1: your nails. Qualities are racist? Players, money at stuff? I 1096 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:37,920 Speaker 1: can't tell me