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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, new listeners, old listeners, Wherever you are in

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Speaker 1: the world, it is so great to have you here

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Speaker 1: back for another episode as we, of course break down

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Speaker 1: the psychology of our twenties. Before we get into today's episode, though,

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Speaker 1: I do want to let you know that we will

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Speaker 1: be talking about some heavy topics today, including self harm,

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Speaker 1: suicidal ideation, and grief. So if you are particularly sensitive

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Speaker 1: to these topics, please consider your need to listen to

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Speaker 1: this episode right now. It will still be here tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: in a week, in a few months, or even a

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Speaker 1: year when you feel more mentally prepared to come back

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Speaker 1: to it. So please remember your mental health is always

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Speaker 1: the top priority. So if you do need any further

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Speaker 1: assistance now or after listening to this episode, there will

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Speaker 1: be links in the description and I'm sending you a

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Speaker 1: lot of love and a lot of healing. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: today I want to take a bit of a vulnerable

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Speaker 1: turn and talk about something quite personal to me that

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Speaker 1: I've existed with for many, many years, and that is

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Speaker 1: high functioning depression. Depression that is almost i would say,

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Speaker 1: invisible from the outside, but deeply taxing on the inside,

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Speaker 1: the kind of depression that makes you push and push

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Speaker 1: and push yourself so that it may seem like you're

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Speaker 1: okay and that you're doing well, maybe even accomplished, but

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Speaker 1: everything just takes one percent more and more from you,

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Speaker 1: and inside you know you are really struggling, despite taking

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Speaker 1: care of everything on your list, despite appearances, this kind

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Speaker 1: of breed of depression, I guess it's a lot more

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Speaker 1: common than we think, and yet we have no idea

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Speaker 1: of the numbers. We have no idea of how many

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Speaker 1: people are secretly hiding behind a very high functioning appearance

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Speaker 1: because we don't talk about it, and because it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to recognize when it is occurring. People who have

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Speaker 1: high functioning depression don't get help, they don't feel seen

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Speaker 1: in the typical depiction of what depression should look like.

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Speaker 1: For those of us in our twenties as well, I

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Speaker 1: think it's also so easy at times to conceal this

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Speaker 1: kind of depression, and it's so easy for us to

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Speaker 1: feel like that is the appropriate path. That we should

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Speaker 1: be busy, we should be having fun, we should be

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Speaker 1: pursuing success. You know, these are the best years of

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Speaker 1: our lives, and sometimes we believe. You know, I have

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Speaker 1: no reason to be depressed. You know that that's not

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Speaker 1: that's not me. I'm in these spectacular youthful years. I

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Speaker 1: should be happy. I should be happy. And that's where

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Speaker 1: we really need to fix our misconceptions around depression, not

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Speaker 1: just that it's not a bad word, but also that

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Speaker 1: anyone can experience this, even if your life seen perfect,

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Speaker 1: even if you seemingly have it all together, even if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look like it from the outside, even if

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Speaker 1: people would say you're thriving, the private battle could look very,

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Speaker 1: very different. And so today we're here to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: We're here to talk about what high functioning depression looks like,

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Speaker 1: how to notice it in yourself but also in others,

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Speaker 1: Why it is so invisible, what creates that concealment, what

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Speaker 1: creates this nature or breed of depression, and you know

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Speaker 1: the involvement of stigma, of hyperindependence, of childhood trauma, of

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Speaker 1: being a high achiever, what all those things have to

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Speaker 1: do with it. But also how to take care of

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Speaker 1: yourself even when you don't quote look the part, even

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Speaker 1: when you feel the pressure to keep it all together.

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Speaker 1: And additionally, what I wish our family, our friends, our

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Speaker 1: partners would know about this experience and how they can

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Speaker 1: help us, and so so so much more so, I'm

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Speaker 1: actually pretty excited about this Episodso I have wanted to

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Speaker 1: do it for a long time, but you know, it's

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Speaker 1: quite private, it's quite a personal experience, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I kind of kept leaning away from it, but it

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Speaker 1: feels like the right time to do it. I hope

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Speaker 1: that it is, if nothing else, informative and makes you

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Speaker 1: feel seen, or if you are a friend of someone

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Speaker 1: experiencing this a partner, a loved one, helps you understand

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Speaker 1: their lived experience more so, without further ado, my lovely

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Speaker 1: listener is, let's get into it. So I have this theory,

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Speaker 1: and it's a theory that I've had for a long

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Speaker 1: time and I talk about it with my friends a lot.

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Speaker 1: But my theory is that at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: society expects any person who was mentally ill to fall

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Speaker 1: into one of two categories. They are either sad or

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Speaker 1: they are bad. And I'm going to explain this a

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Speaker 1: little bit further, but based on media portrayals, stereotypes, news stories,

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Speaker 1: public opinion, people who experienceience mental ill health are either

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Speaker 1: depicted or seen to be dangerous, harmful, scary, ready to

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Speaker 1: scream at you, hurt you. They're violent, they should be

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Speaker 1: off the streets. That's how you know. We see news

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Speaker 1: articles written about this, that people who have mental illness

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Speaker 1: are dangerous. We see them depicted in a really poor light.

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Speaker 1: Or or you are entirely miserable. You are locked in

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Speaker 1: the house, you look forlorn and terrible. You don't shower,

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Speaker 1: you don't get out of bed. It's like that scene

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Speaker 1: in Bridget Jones, like where she's eating ice cream and

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Speaker 1: watching TV, like locked in her apartment for months, but constantly,

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Speaker 1: and there is no in between. There is no room

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Speaker 1: for nuance. Either you are pitied or you are feared.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't look like that, well you must

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Speaker 1: be fine. You must be putting it on. It's this

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Speaker 1: terrible catch twenty two whereby if you meet the stereotype,

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Speaker 1: you are treated differently and you are expected to hide way.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't well, then you must not be

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Speaker 1: unwell enough. You must be lying about what you're experiencing.

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Speaker 1: It also, I think, really lets people continue to believe that,

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Speaker 1: you know, well, poor mental health it's not that widespread.

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Speaker 1: People are just making a big deal out of it

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Speaker 1: because a lot of the people they do encounter don't

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Speaker 1: match their preconceived notions. You know, their colleagues, their roommates,

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Speaker 1: their family friends who they come across every couple of months.

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Speaker 1: They might be suffering with extreme anxiety, depression, bipolar, OCD,

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Speaker 1: any number of mood disorders or personality disorders. But because

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Speaker 1: they don't look like the stereotype, they're easily ignored as

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Speaker 1: being part of that community. So it really does hurt

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Speaker 1: everyone in multiple ways the way that any kind of

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Speaker 1: stereotype will. Like, you cannot siphon down and generalize the

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Speaker 1: entire experience of in viduals experiencing mental ill health, and

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Speaker 1: you most certainly cannot put them into one of two

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Speaker 1: buckets either you are bad or sad. Like I said, So,

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Speaker 1: this really brings me to how we have been taught

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Speaker 1: to see depression specifically. Now, let me begin by saying

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Speaker 1: that in order to be diagnosed with depression, you do

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Speaker 1: need to meet certain criteria in the DSM, that's the

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Speaker 1: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you go to a doctor, a psychiatrist, a psychologist, they

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Speaker 1: are going to look for certain things and there are

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Speaker 1: also and many different, like quite a few different types

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Speaker 1: of depression. I think sometimes we say, oh, someone's depressed,

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Speaker 1: and we just think of this general, generic, run of

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Speaker 1: the mill depression. But you can have major depressive disorder,

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Speaker 1: persistent depressive disorder, seasonal effective disorder, postpartum depression. Depression is

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Speaker 1: also part of bipolar. It's all distressing, like all of

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Speaker 1: them cause a lot of impairment in some form, but

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Speaker 1: mainly what we are looking for. What a psychiatrist or

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Speaker 1: a psychologist or a doctor, any number of professionals are

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Speaker 1: looking for, is a depressive episode. So they want to

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Speaker 1: know that at some point you have experienced a prolonged

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Speaker 1: period normally for more than two weeks, of having a

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Speaker 1: depressed mood, having diminished interest or pleasure in your hobbies

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Speaker 1: and activities, seeing a change in your weight, in your appetite, insomnia,

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Speaker 1: modus skills may have declined, diminished ability to think or concentrate.

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Speaker 1: You might feel very worthless, very tired. And also you

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Speaker 1: have these rearcurrent thoughts of death, not just a fear

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Speaker 1: of dying, although that it's part of it, but also

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Speaker 1: a suicidal ideation, a plan, or you have previously attempted

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Speaker 1: another thing they are looking for if you want to

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Speaker 1: be diagnosed with depression or a major depressive disorder, is

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Speaker 1: that you don't have any manic or hypermanic symptoms. So

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Speaker 1: basically that means that your depressive symptoms aren't counterbalanced by

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Speaker 1: a period afterwards of mania, so elevated mood, increased energy, activity, impulsivity,

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Speaker 1: feelings of grandiosity, that kind of thing. So they want

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Speaker 1: to rule out that you don't have bipolar disorder or

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Speaker 1: some other kind of mood disorder. Now that is a

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Speaker 1: very general and very general understanding of depression. It's definitely

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Speaker 1: not everything you need to know. But there's one other

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Speaker 1: component here, and that is when a professional is looking

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Speaker 1: at the list of criteria, you don't have to meet

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Speaker 1: them all. So I gave you like a list of

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Speaker 1: maybe nine, You only have to have between two to

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Speaker 1: five to diagnose you with a depressive episode, either a

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Speaker 1: minor or a major depressive episode. So that means that

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Speaker 1: there are almost and I did I'm here, I went

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Speaker 1: back to my economics roots. There are almost six hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty seven different combinations of symptoms that you could

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Speaker 1: have to be diagnosed with depression. So this idea that

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Speaker 1: depression looks one way. Yes, we have a big list

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Speaker 1: of symptoms, but in order to be diagnosed, you only

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Speaker 1: need to have maybe three or four or five. So

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Speaker 1: if we do the combination of them again, six hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty seven different combinations of symptoms, you could get

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Speaker 1: ten people in a room who all have depression, and

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Speaker 1: they still might not look the same. Some of them

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Speaker 1: may have lots of energy, insomnia, a depressed mood, but

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Speaker 1: you know, they're still interested in exercising, they still feel

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Speaker 1: good about themselves, they still eat normally. Then you could

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Speaker 1: have someone who predominantly feels quite worthless and is consistently

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Speaker 1: thinking about death, but they are still able to concentrate,

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Speaker 1: and they wouldn't classify themselves as being depressed. If you

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Speaker 1: kind of get where I'm coming from, Like, there is

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Speaker 1: just so many inns of this, And with that in mind,

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Speaker 1: it's not just that we have all these combinations, It's

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Speaker 1: that each person's way of expressing a singular symptom is

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Speaker 1: also going to be different. So let's talk about being

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Speaker 1: one that people pull out as markedly diminished interest or

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Speaker 1: pleasure in most or all activities. That is going to

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Speaker 1: look really different for different people. For one person, they

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Speaker 1: may no longer find joy in their favorite hobbies like

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Speaker 1: painting or playing music. For another, it could be that

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Speaker 1: they still enjoy their hobbies, but they are withdrawing from

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Speaker 1: social gatherings. For someone else, it's that they can't find

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Speaker 1: motivation to do basic things like cooking or showering, but

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Speaker 1: they still find time to be social. So again, each symptom,

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Speaker 1: there will be individual differences. This is why, this is

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Speaker 1: my argument for why we cannot be led to believe

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Speaker 1: that depression is going to look one certain way on

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Speaker 1: everyone all the time. The notion of depression as extradre

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Speaker 1: sadness or crying all the time, isolation, staying in bed,

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Speaker 1: a crisis, and inability to function. It does not explain

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Speaker 1: everybody's experience. And you know what, there is no shame

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Speaker 1: in your depression looking that way. In fact, for me,

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Speaker 1: at times it has looked that way. I talked about

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Speaker 1: that in my episode on my mental breakdown last year.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was a period where my depression presented

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Speaker 1: in a very stereotypical way. But it cannot be the

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Speaker 1: only narrative being told by society. That limited perspective can

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Speaker 1: be harmful because it overlooks the many hidden or subtle

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Speaker 1: ways that depression can show up, like irritability, like perfectionism, overworking,

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Speaker 1: physical symptoms that people might confuse with physical ill health,

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Speaker 1: or excessive socializing, all of these coping mechanisms that aren't

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Speaker 1: typically thought of. So this kind of brings me to

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about today, high functioning depression. Sorry it's

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Speaker 1: taken me so long to get here, but I promise

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Speaker 1: that explanation was worth it. Functioning depression it's not a

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Speaker 1: medical diagnosis, but it is a form of depression that

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Speaker 1: we can recognize where from the outside, someone looks very capable, successful,

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Speaker 1: perfectly happy. They look like they're doing well, but below

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Speaker 1: the surface, they are really struggling and they're experiencing a

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Speaker 1: lot of personal or private impairment. It is the kind

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Speaker 1: of depression or depressive episode that doesn't meet the stereotype,

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Speaker 1: and because of that, people sometimes feel like their experience

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Speaker 1: is less valid. Maybe they don't deserve the same level

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Speaker 1: of help as others. Maybe they have been misdiagnosed. But

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Speaker 1: none of this is true. It's just that the reality

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Speaker 1: of their depression is different to what we've been told.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna say this. I do think that the

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Speaker 1: term high functioning depression it's not the best choice of words.

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Speaker 1: I don't love it all that much. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: the same reason why I guess people don't like high

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Speaker 1: functioning autism. It's obviously not an official diagnosis, and it

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Speaker 1: almost has the effect of ranking individuals on like some

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Speaker 1: merit base like are you worthy and high functioning or

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Speaker 1: are you low functioning and not worthy? Like? There is

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Speaker 1: this weird hierarchy to it. It's not inclusive, and it

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Speaker 1: can sometimes be quite misleading. You know, high functioning doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean someone doesn't need support. Here are some other reasons

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Speaker 1: why people are trying to maybe steer us away from

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Speaker 1: the term high functioning depression. It can really minimize the struggle.

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Speaker 1: Of course, people with high functioning depression experience just as

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Speaker 1: much emotional pain, self doubt, and exhaustion, even if from

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Speaker 1: the outside they're great at masking it. It does. You know,

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Speaker 1: that term does really reinforce a very toxic productivity mindset

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Speaker 1: kind of suggests that as long as you are productive,

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Speaker 1: your mental health isn't a problem and you don't need

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Speaker 1: help for it. It also definitely create it's a barrier

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Speaker 1: to diagnoses and treatment, and you know what, depression, whether

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Speaker 1: it's high functioning or low functioning, which that's the part

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Speaker 1: of it that I hate, low functioning like you still

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Speaker 1: you still are struggling, and it exists on a spectrum

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Speaker 1: like everything else does. So I actually typically call it

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Speaker 1: something else in my own life. In my day to

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Speaker 1: day life, I refer to high functioning depression as masked

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Speaker 1: depression or disguised depression, because I just think that that's

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Speaker 1: a better term for it. So what does masked depression

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Speaker 1: or disguised depression look like? How does that compare to

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Speaker 1: what we've been told to think about it. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to use my own experience as an example here. I

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Speaker 1: think from the outside sometimes I have made the mistake

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Speaker 1: of trying too hard to pretend that everything is perfect

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Speaker 1: in my life, either online or with my family and friends,

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Speaker 1: even with my partner, and it's meant that I will

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Speaker 1: truly be in the trenches. I will be thinking terrible

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Speaker 1: dark thoughts, struggling with zero motivation, wanting to sleep fifteen

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Speaker 1: hours a day. And if someone was like, hey, how

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Speaker 1: are you even like my partner, even like my friends,

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Speaker 1: and be like, oh, how are you going? I can

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Speaker 1: be quite dismissive of that question and be like I'm fine,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm fine, I'm good, yeap, super super good. I

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Speaker 1: think master depression is wanting to keep up the appearance

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Speaker 1: that your life is okay, either consciously or unconsciously. Perhaps

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Speaker 1: unconsciously because you know admitting it to other people, allowing

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Speaker 1: the symptoms to be visible would mean that you would

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Speaker 1: have to acknowledge it. I think people with master depression

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Speaker 1: often overwork themselves. They often have a lot on their plate.

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Speaker 1: They often surround themselves with a lot of other high achievers.

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Speaker 1: They put a lot of responsibilities on their plate, they

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Speaker 1: don't take breaks, They push themselves to a point of burnout,

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Speaker 1: and then they also go through a lot more periods

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Speaker 1: of withdrawal. So you just don't see them for a while.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can't reach them, you can't access them,

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Speaker 1: all in an effort from them to keep what they're

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Speaker 1: going through quite private. You know, master depression comes with

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Speaker 1: a lot of unconscious pretenses, probably because we have internalized

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Speaker 1: the stigma surrounding looking depressed and we don't want to

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Speaker 1: be lumped into the sad box, but also because it's

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Speaker 1: meant for me at least that a lot of my

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Speaker 1: symptoms impacted things that people normally don't see, so it's

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Speaker 1: easier to conceal. So that's the part of it that's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily conscious. It just kind of happens, you know.

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Speaker 1: It would be hard to know how tired I am

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Speaker 1: if you only met me for two hours or we

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Speaker 1: only had dinner once a week, because my fatigue is

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Speaker 1: quite a private symptom. The same with like the spiraling

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Speaker 1: negative thought patterns, the thoughts of death, the existential questions.

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Speaker 1: Those are hard to see because they're not outward facing,

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Speaker 1: because you can't climb into my brain and look around

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Speaker 1: and be like ugh, yuck, like this is not good,

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Speaker 1: Like someone needs to clean this up, this is not healthy.

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Speaker 1: Like you can't do that. You know, you can't come

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Speaker 1: into my house and see what a message is unless

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Speaker 1: I invited you. So I think for people with high

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Speaker 1: functioning depression, yes there is a sense of like they

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Speaker 1: really feel the need to conceal it, But it may

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Speaker 1: also be that their depression shows up in a much

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Speaker 1: more private manner just by the nature of what symptoms

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Speaker 1: are occurring. People with mass depression, I also think, involve

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Speaker 1: themselves in a lot of very private coping as well,

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Speaker 1: so coping mechanisms that aren't necessarily visible, emotional eating, relying

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Speaker 1: on alcohol, drinking whole bottle of wine by themselves at home,

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Speaker 1: social media, or again work to numb themselves. And that

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Speaker 1: numbness is a huge component of this, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's something that once we can step into and once

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Speaker 1: we can blunt our emotions numb ourselves to the world,

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Speaker 1: it means that we can carry ourselves through truly anything

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Speaker 1: because we don't have to feel our feelings. Basically we

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Speaker 1: can switch on ordered pilot and still do all the

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Speaker 1: things that need to be done in order to be

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Speaker 1: accepted and be seen as quite functioning. But also because

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Speaker 1: of that, we're not really investing in anything deeply. So

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Speaker 1: you know, you may work really really hard on some

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Speaker 1: big project, you get amazing feedback, you have amazing results,

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Speaker 1: and you still feel empty or something great has happened

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Speaker 1: in your life because you've detached from the bad stuff

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Speaker 1: as well, and you've numbed yourself to your experiences, it

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Speaker 1: just feels like nothing. Falling in love, for example, you know,

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Speaker 1: you could be dating someone and you're like, Wow, this

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Speaker 1: person is incredible. How come I can't commit fully emotionally

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Speaker 1: to this experience, not even to this person, but just

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Speaker 1: to the niceness of falling in love. Someone actually explained

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Speaker 1: this really, really well, and it was a listener who

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Speaker 1: DMed me with a question, and part of her question

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Speaker 1: or her message to me said, it's like I'm looking

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Speaker 1: down into my own life with no emotions, like I'm

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Speaker 1: watching it from above. And that is exactly the perfect description,

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Speaker 1: Like it always reminds me. I don't know if you've

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Speaker 1: seen the Amy Winehouse documentary. Amy Winehouse, of course, had

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Speaker 1: depression herself, amongst a litany of other really difficult things.

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Speaker 1: And there's a scene in the documentary which I love.

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Speaker 1: I love that documentary. But she wins a Grammy and

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Speaker 1: they're filming her and she looks so excited and stunned

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Speaker 1: and everyone who loves her is there and it should

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Speaker 1: be like the highlight of her life. And then her

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Speaker 1: friend pulls her aside, or she pulls her friend aside.

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Speaker 1: Something happens and her friend is like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: this is so exciting, and she's just like, I feel nothing,

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Speaker 1: Like I just feel absolutely nothing. This should be the

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Speaker 1: best day of my life, and I feel nothing. And

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Speaker 1: I think that a big part of that is probably

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Speaker 1: an episode of mass depression where she felt like in

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Speaker 1: the moment she needed to be on and be okay,

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Speaker 1: but the moment there was a trusted person there, it

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Speaker 1: was like the mask slipped. So this is what it

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Speaker 1: looks like. Maybe you can see yourself in these descriptions.

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Speaker 1: You can see yourself in the overachiever, the over worker,

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Speaker 1: in the emotional numbness, in the hitting coping mechanisms. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about why it occurs, you know, besides stigma,

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Speaker 1: besides some of the things we've talked about, what are

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Speaker 1: the contributing factors to mass depression. Well, we are going

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Speaker 1: to take a short break, quick decompress for a second.

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Speaker 1: But when we return, we will talk origins and we

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Speaker 1: will of course also talk about how to cope. Stay

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Speaker 1: with us, okay, So there are some main explanations for

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Speaker 1: while you may find yourself masking your depression or identifying

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Speaker 1: as quote unquote high functioning. Firstly, a big, big part

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Speaker 1: of it comes down to not just how, but where

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Speaker 1: you were raised. You might have come from a family

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Speaker 1: or culture that teaches people not to talk about mental illness,

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Speaker 1: in which case a form of mass depression, master anxiety,

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Speaker 1: masked anything is much more likely. Something really interesting I've

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Speaker 1: noticed is the correlation between countries that report low mental

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Speaker 1: illness rates and the rate of stigma. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: most likely that if we went into every single country

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Speaker 1: and we did proper examinations and diagnoses, about a third

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Speaker 1: of people across their lifetime would have mental ill health.

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Speaker 1: The kind of accepted rate that people suggest is most

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Speaker 1: likely if people actually got diagnosed. So when a country

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Speaker 1: or a government is saying, oh, you know, well, mental

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Speaker 1: ill health, the rate of that in our country is

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Speaker 1: one or two percent, I always look at that and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that means that the rate of masking and

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Speaker 1: high functioning or disguised depression, anxiety, or city bipolar, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is, is so much higher. And it also means

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Speaker 1: A there is probably a lot of stigma and instances

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Speaker 1: that are ignored. B They probably don't have the infrastructure

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Speaker 1: to even measure mental ill health rates or see the

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Speaker 1: true you know, the true problem is that it's being

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Speaker 1: deliberately hidden and they don't want to acknowledge it. It's

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Speaker 1: probably a combination of all three. So, as a result,

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Speaker 1: if you are living in a country where they're like, ah,

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Speaker 1: our rate of depression is zero point one percent or

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Speaker 1: zero point five percent, The chances of mass depression in

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Speaker 1: a community like that is going to be a lot higher.

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Speaker 1: You may have also developed mass depression if you think

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Speaker 1: you'll feel better by powering through it on your own. Now,

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Speaker 1: where does that come from? I'm sure a lot of

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Speaker 1: you are like screaming into your friends. Like childhood, it

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Speaker 1: comes from childhood, and it does. It comes from being

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Speaker 1: taught that self sufficiency was the way, and your self

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Speaker 1: sufficiency and independence was rewarded, which is an important thing

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Speaker 1: for a child's development, but it was rewarded to an

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Speaker 1: extent that like, you were discouraged from showing vulnerability or

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Speaker 1: asking for help, so when you really did need assistance,

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Speaker 1: your parents were like, we're not going to get involved

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Speaker 1: in that. That can really lead to a sense of hyperindependence,

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Speaker 1: I e. If I can't manage this alone, if I

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Speaker 1: can't do this alone, I'm weak. And this kind of

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Speaker 1: messaging can cause us to minimize our experiences and think,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't have it as bad as that

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00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,959
Speaker 1: person does, as a way of denial and avoidance. I

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00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: also think master depression is more likely if you are

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Speaker 1: trying to avoid any impact of your depression on your job,

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Speaker 1: on your relationships, on your life, and you are hoping

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Speaker 1: that if you just ignore it for long enough, it

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Speaker 1: will lift, like this is just a time thing. I

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Speaker 1: think this is basically a fear of losing momentum, a

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Speaker 1: fear of losing progress, which is very common in a

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Speaker 1: success obsessed society. It's also a fear of losing control.

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Speaker 1: You know, something I've heard from a lot of people

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Speaker 1: and even some listeners is this fear that if you

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Speaker 1: let yourself acknowledge and feel depressed, or admit it to yourself,

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Speaker 1: or lean in to the terrible feelings, you are going

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Speaker 1: to lose touch with your reality and you're going to

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Speaker 1: lose touch with your sanity. Basically, we have this fear

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Speaker 1: that if we don't mask our depression to the world

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Speaker 1: and therefore to ourselves, we are going to go quote

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Speaker 1: unquote crazy. The thing is, I get this fear. It

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Speaker 1: really rarely happens. In fact, you are actually more likely

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Speaker 1: to experience severe symptoms, but again mostly irreversible symptoms if

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00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: you keep suppressing and avoiding what you're going through, because

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00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: the emotional toll is going to become greater and more strenuous.

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Speaker 1: But I promise you that if you acknowledge it, and

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Speaker 1: you look at it in the eyes and you get help,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to lose your sanity. You're not going

430
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: to lose your mind. And this idea and this fear,

431
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: I understand it. We all want to feel calm and

432
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 1: stable in our lives. But really it does just come

433
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: back to stigma, and it comes back to that age

434
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: old story we've been told, back to the times when

435
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: most mental illnesses were just labeled hysteria and you were

436
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: put in an asylum, that this experience is terrible and

437
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: it's going to ruin your life, and it's going to

438
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: make you different, and it's just going to cause you harm.

439
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: Like that's what we have been led to believe. It's

440
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: going to make you crazy. That's not true. Let me

441
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 1: say this, There are so many more treatments, more pathways,

442
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: more options for people nowadays. There is nothing as well

443
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 1: that you will have to go through alone. This will

444
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: not be the first time that a doctor or a

445
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 1: psychologist has seen something similar to your case. This is

446
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: not going to be the first time someone has had

447
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: to go through what you're going through. And even if

448
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: the worst, worst worst case scenario happens, which it won't,

449
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: but you find yourself losing your sanity, which you won't,

450
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: You're still going to find a way to come back

451
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: to yourself. I promise you that, and getting help sooner,

452
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: accessing your emotions sooner will only ever help that, it

453
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: will never make that worse. But I do think that's

454
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: a big component of sometimes unconsciously masking out depression. We

455
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 1: don't want to acknowledge that it could get worse, but

456
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: by doing that, we allow it to get worse. Sometimes, though,

457
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: master depression actually just comes from trauma and it's just

458
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 1: expressed that way without any kind of conscious decision to

459
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: conceal it. So there is an amazing research paper that

460
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 1: was published last year, last year, maybe even this year.

461
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: It was published very recently. It's titled Understanding High Functioning

462
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: Depression in Adults, and in it they conducted one hundred

463
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: and twenty interviews with individuals between eighteen and seventy five

464
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 1: who had been identified as having mass depression. They obviously

465
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: call it high functioning depression, twenty of whom out of

466
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: the one hundred and twenty, had extreme high functioning depression

467
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: to the point where you know, someone actually had recommended

468
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: them to the study. They didn't even believe that they

469
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: had a problem, but it was quite obvious that they did.

470
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: They found a very very very strong correlation between mass

471
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: or high functioning depression and trauma. In particular, a lot

472
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: of these individuals had experienced a lot of compounding minor traumas,

473
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 1: but also a lot of big trauma as well, such

474
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: that you know, especially if it had occurred at an

475
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: early age, maybe their brains had begun to process their

476
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: emotions differently and detach very very early on from big

477
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: feelings to protect themselves emotionally. They also found that people

478
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: with high functioning depression, as they called it, were more

479
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: likely to experience something called an donia. This is a

480
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: lack of pleasure in everyday activities and enjoys, and they

481
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: suggested that the higher rates of anadonia in people with

482
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: high functioning depression might actually be contributing to them being

483
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: quite overachievers or pushing themselves because their kind of baseline

484
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: for experiencing pleasure is so much higher, so more needs

485
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: to occur, more needs to happen, They need to achieve

486
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: more success in order to feel the level of pride

487
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: and enjoyment and pleasure that you know someone else would

488
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: feel from just getting a good job from their boss. Essentially,

489
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: they need a bigger win. They need to strive and

490
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: feel much more important. They need a much higher level

491
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: of success to reach that pleasure threshold that you know

492
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: someone else would reach quite easily. That's the big takeaway.

493
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: And odonia and high functioning depression are linked, but also

494
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 1: trauma and high functioning depression. So those are a few

495
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: explanations for why it is that you may be experiencing

496
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 1: this type of depression, why it is more common in

497
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: certain cultures, certain communities, in people who have been raised

498
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: a certain way. Now, I want to talk about what

499
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: we're going to do about it. We have this experience,

500
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: we're living this experience. What do we do. I want

501
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: to start out by just firstly having a little heart

502
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: to heart here, you know, between you and me, and acknowledging, Okay,

503
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: this is something you are experiencing and you're going through

504
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: and which you have to manage day in and day out,

505
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 1: regardless of whether other people are seeing it or not.

506
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: I think I know the kind of person you probably are,

507
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: and I know that you're probably putting on such a

508
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: brave face, and I know how hard you're trying, and

509
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: I know you have to give one hundred and fifty

510
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: percent where everyone else might only have to give fifty,

511
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: and I know you must be so tired. I know

512
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: how hard it is. I also know you probably go

513
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: back and forth over whether you deserve to have the

514
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: label and receive support. You probably go back and forth

515
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: over whether this is even real, because you're trying to

516
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: perhaps convince yourself it's not. And I know you're trying

517
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: so hard. I know you are trying to keep up appearances.

518
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: Just want to validate that experience for you, because it's

519
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 1: so freaking hard and tough, and it's exhausting, it's frustrating,

520
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: but it also doesn't have to continue to be invisible.

521
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: I think once we acknowledge, okay, just because my depression

522
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: is high functioning doesn't mean it doesn't exist, that's the

523
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: first step. I think the next step after that is

524
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: being prepared to talk to others about this. Literally, you

525
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: could just send them this episode if you want to,

526
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: and just say, hey, you know all those things I've

527
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: been struggling with, I think it's this. This explains it well.

528
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: You can also just start being honest with your family,

529
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: your closest friends, your partner when they ask you how

530
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: are you? How are you going? What would it feel

531
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: like to just finally say, you know what, not good

532
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: and I'm hurting and this is hard and can you

533
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: please help me? What would that feel like? Something that

534
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: completely changed how I think about asking for help was

535
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: someone said to me, once your loved ones actually want

536
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,959
Speaker 1: the opportunity to love you. You are giving them the

537
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: gift of being able to show you how much they care.

538
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: Like that's an honor to them, That's a gift, that's

539
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: an opportunity. And I thought about the people in my

540
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 1: life who I love and how I love being given

541
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: the opportunity to show them that I would do anything

542
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: for them, Like that's actually a real privilege to have

543
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: that trust, and it's a gift. You know, invite people

544
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: into your hard moments, keep them in the loop with

545
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 1: your hard days. When they offer to help you, just

546
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: try out saying yes. See how it feels. Think about

547
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: all the times that you've said yes for others. You know,

548
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: you've paid your dues, you do so much for other people,

549
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: it's okay to accept some help back. In fact, I

550
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: think you might really deserve it. Actually, why did I

551
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: even say I think I know you really deserve it.

552
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: You've spent so long proving that you don't, that you

553
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: can do it yourself. We know that now, like we

554
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: know that you are capable. We know that if no

555
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: one helped you, you would be fine. But is that

556
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,239
Speaker 1: really the way that you want to be? Is that

557
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: the way you want to live? Is that the only option?

558
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's a strange thing to rewire your mind

559
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: to accept help and to let people in after so

560
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: many years of trying to prove to yourself that you

561
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: didn't need to do that. But it is so liberating

562
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 1: to just have someone see you for what you're really

563
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: experiencing and to want to love you and help you.

564
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: And it is like anything else, with practice, it gets easier,

565
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: you get better at it, It becomes more second nature

566
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: to you. You know sometimes, and we do need to

567
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: acknowledge this. We aren't always going to be met with acceptance,

568
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: and that's when the real battle begins. Right, you have

569
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: opened up. It's taken you so much to kind of

570
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: pull back the mask, and you're shut down. I want

571
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: to say, if that is the case, and you're thinking,

572
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: you know, it would have been better if I just

573
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: kept this inside, and you know, if I just made

574
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: everyone else comfortable and didn't bother them. This is where

575
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: I really want you to pause. You cannot spend your

576
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: entire life trying to make everyone else's life easier and

577
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: more comfortable, especially when it makes it harder for you.

578
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: You just simply cannot. You know, the stigma they are

579
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: feeling is an issue for them, and it doesn't change

580
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 1: your experience. Sometimes I also find these people who are

581
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: so readily quick to deny your experience and to say, well,

582
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: you're not depressed, you're fine, you know you're okay. I

583
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: often think these are the people who are lying to

584
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: themselves as well, because they're looking at you and they're saying, well,

585
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: if that person isn't fine, what about all these things

586
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: I've been trying to hide? What about all these secret

587
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: parts of me that I have suppressed for so long?

588
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: As well? I think often our openness challenges people to

589
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: recognize what their closed offness has cost them. In these instances, though,

590
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: I think it's not worth waiting for someone to change

591
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: their mind. That might sound brutal, It's not worth waiting

592
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: to convince someone of your existence, of your reality, and

593
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: how you're experiencing the world. Please, this very vulnerable period,

594
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: focus on those who bring you up with total acceptance.

595
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: Focus on the people for whom if you said I'm

596
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: having a really bad day, they'd say I'm coming over,

597
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: or they'd say I see you, I feel you, I'm sorry.

598
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: I also want you to challenge yourself to prioritize rest

599
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: without guilt, because chances are you're overfunctioning, and your acts

600
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: of trying to compensate for how you feel through success

601
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: and overworking are probably taking even more of a mental toll.

602
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: So I need something from you. I need you to

603
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: schedule a day or a weekend of nothing. I need

604
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: you to make that a practice. You know, I'm sure

605
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: if I set any other kind of goal for you, you

606
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: would meet it really, really quickly. Your goal here is

607
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 1: to rest, it's to not be productive. I need you

608
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 1: to put effort into this. I need you to be

609
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 1: switching off by eight pm at the latest from work,

610
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: from your responsibilities, from your phone. I need you to

611
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: take your sick leave. Something I always say to people

612
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: is that sickly you have earned that. That is part

613
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 1: of your wage, That is part of your salary, like

614
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: sick leave is deducted from your total salary that they

615
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: expected to pay you and put into a separate account. Basically,

616
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: that's how I see it. You still have access and

617
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: rights to that money, So you need to take your

618
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: sick leave. You need to slow down for just a second.

619
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: You know, your worth and personality does not only come

620
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: from how productive you can be or efficient. Like we

621
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: know you can be productive. I know you can be productive.

622
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 1: I know you're a high achiever. Rest is an essential

623
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: part in keeping you well as well and in keeping

624
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: you alive, and if it helps you in any way,

625
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: it's also an important part in keeping you productive, if

626
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: we really want to go that far. In fact, if

627
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: if you were focused on success and that's something that's

628
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: really important to you, which I'm sure it is. People

629
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: who allow themselves rest and who give themselves downtime only

630
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: come back better than ever. Let's give some examples here,

631
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: Simone Biles, Serena Williams Adele. You know she took a

632
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: five year break from her singing career and came back

633
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,879
Speaker 1: with one of her best albums ever. Now, no one

634
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 1: is going to look at those women and say God

635
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: like she really hasn't done much with her time, like

636
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: she's such a failure because she took time for herself

637
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: and she rested no like these women are like at

638
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: the top of their game. These women and people in general,

639
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: there are so many more examples. They restored their bodies,

640
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: they restored their minds, and they came back better and

641
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: stronger than ever. And that's what I need from you.

642
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: We need more examples of this in the age we're in,

643
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: you know, we need to get rid of this hustle

644
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: mentality which serves no one, and focus on how you

645
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,399
Speaker 1: are going to last the distance, how you are going

646
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 1: to ease up on yourself, how you are going to

647
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: take care of yourself and be present. There is no

648
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 1: point working extremely hard for something if by the time

649
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: you get there, you are ready to collapse and you

650
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: cannot even appreciate it. Following up from that in terms

651
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: of advice so people with high functioning depression, I also

652
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: saw an amazing piece of advice from a psychiatrist in

653
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 1: a recent School of Psychology article that spoke about how

654
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: people with master depression actually really benefit from breaking out

655
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: of their routine and not just prioritizing rest, of course,

656
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: but also going on these microadventures, and this researcher was

657
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: looking at the initiation and addition of novelty into the

658
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: lives of people with depression and how that really improved

659
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 1: their well being. So going on these little adventures, not

660
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: big things, not solo traveling, not large scale Europe holidays

661
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: or Asia holidays or whatever, but just small, everyday things

662
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: was really really amazing for their well being and really

663
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: broke up the monotonous nature of their lives. And what

664
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: she was saying in this article is that people with

665
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: master depression, they often find a lot of solace in

666
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: their routine because it allows them to further slip into

667
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,240
Speaker 1: autopilot mode, but it also becomes really restrictive and secretly

668
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 1: quite exhausting. So allowing yourself planned time to go explore

669
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: is so important. Like go to a go strawberry picking.

670
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: I did that this weekend. Amazing, it was so much fun.

671
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: It costs like ten dollars. Like go strawberry picking, go

672
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: on a weekend hike, go walk some foster dogs, Like

673
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: I have a foster dog right now called Talu, and

674
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: like she has changed my life in terms of getting

675
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: out of the house, exploring my neighborhood, meeting new people,

676
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: have a gallery day, have a picnic, just like drive

677
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: the however long it takes to get to the beach,

678
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: I guess I live in Australia, so it's not that long.

679
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,879
Speaker 1: But you know, go to a beautiful body of water

680
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: and submerge yourself in it, explore your city. I really

681
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: think that micro adventures are so fantastic because novelty for

682
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: depression in general is fantastic. Depression by nature is quite limiting,

683
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: and it keeps things very small and less vibrant and restrictive.

684
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: So to counteract that, you need to give your mind

685
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: opportunities to see that things are quite expansive and quite wide,

686
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: and that there is beauty outside of your routine and

687
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 1: your desire to appear okay, like you have to put

688
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: yourself into these new environments, whattch yourself, grow what your

689
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: self experience life and joy and beauty, and see how

690
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: you come back from those days and just feel so enriched.

691
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: If you want, you know more general tips for managing depression,

692
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: not specifically master depression. I do have an entire episode

693
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: called Let's Talk about Depression, very aptly titled that I

694
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: think would be super super useful, and I would direct

695
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 1: you to go listen to that because it's just there's

696
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: so much more information in there. But for now we

697
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: are actually going to take another short break, and when

698
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: we return, we have everyone's favorite segment, our listener questions,

699
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: including some questions from you all on how to take

700
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: care of a partner with master depression, high functioning burnout,

701
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,359
Speaker 1: how it shows up in relationships, and how to get

702
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: yourself to act when you know what you should be doing.

703
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 1: So all of that and more very very shortly. So

704
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: we've been trialing out this new section of the podcast

705
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: where we invite listeners to send in specific questions. On

706
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: Instagram you can follow me at that Psychology podcast, and

707
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: I've been loving it. I think you guys have been

708
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: enjoying it as well, you know. I think it allows

709
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: people to really ask the questions that they're interested in

710
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: and ask more niche questions. Obviously, the podcast episodes we

711
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: do try and go into detail and in depth, but

712
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: it is quite general. If you have specific questions based

713
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 1: on what you're going through, or what you're seeing in

714
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: your community, or just some unique piece of research like

715
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: I love to be able to answer that in the show.

716
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: Rather than waiting till afterwards to get your feedback. But

717
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: of course this is still in the early days, so

718
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: if you like it, if you don't like it, please

719
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: let me know in the comments below. If you know

720
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: everyone says Okay, we don't like the listener questions, we're

721
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 1: done with those. We will of course stop. But I'm

722
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: hoping that you are enjoying it, So the only way

723
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: to know is if you tell me. So, I'd love

724
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: to hear what you think about this segment. Without further ado,

725
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: let's talk about the questions that we got this week,

726
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 1: because they were so fantastic and they also followed some

727
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 1: really amazing themes. So the first question I chose came

728
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: from a listener asking my boyfriend of three years confided

729
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: in me that he has depression, and I've definitely seen

730
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 1: signs over the years, but he is very secretive about

731
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: it and keeps a brave face. He's also quite successful

732
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: and he works in finance, and he has a lot

733
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: of friends and plays futsal and sport. But when he's struggling,

734
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: he withdraws even from me. How do I help him?

735
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,240
Speaker 1: Let me firstly acknowledge that being the partner of someone

736
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: with master depression can be very emotionally difficult and distressing,

737
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: not because there's anything wrong with that person, but because

738
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 1: I know that if you could, you would do anything

739
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: to take that pain away. I know that I know

740
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: that you want to help them in every fiber of

741
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: your being, and you also just want to understand what

742
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: they're experiencing, like you would fight any battle if you

743
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: knew what was going on. But for people with mass depression,

744
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 1: it's very hard to let others in, not because you

745
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: know they don't like you, they don't love you, not

746
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: because they don't want to, but because they're so used

747
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: to taking care of themselves and keeping it very very private.

748
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 1: And I know on the outside it looks like they're

749
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: shutting you out and they don't trust you. I promise

750
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 1: that's not the case. In fact, I think they just

751
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: don't want you to take on any of the pain,

752
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: like they're trying not to burden you as well. The

753
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: biggest recommendation I would have as someone who is the

754
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 1: partner in my situation is to just do things without

755
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 1: having them ask you to do them. That will make

756
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: their life easier. So don't ask do you want me

757
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: to do your laundry for you. Don't ask do you

758
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: want me to cook tonight? Do you want me to

759
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 1: organize that thing you've been putting off. Don't give them

760
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: the option to say no, because they will always say

761
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: no because they don't want to bother you. Just do

762
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: it for them. You know they're not going to ask

763
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: for help, but they secretly do kind of want it

764
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: and need it. Now. It doesn't mean that you're fixing

765
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 1: things with them. It doesn't need that you need to

766
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: become their caretaker. Just small things that you can see

767
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: are really like causing them stress. They're not going like,

768
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 1: they're not going to ask you to do it for them.

769
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: Just take the initiative and step in where you feel capable.

770
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: I'd also really encourage you to do fun things with

771
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: your partner, even if sometimes they don't want to do them.

772
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: You know they'll be happy when they finally, like when

773
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: they're there, even if they feel exhausted in the moment.

774
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: Plan those microadventures for them. Ask them on a date,

775
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, surprise them with the picnic or something fun.

776
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: And my boyfriend does this for me and it's so

777
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: helpful in making me feel excited by my life because

778
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's a surprise. I don't always have the

779
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: mental energy to plan these things myself, and then I

780
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: just get to do it with my favorite person in

781
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: the world, and it's so incredible. My final tip as well,

782
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: and this one hopefully it grows without saying, but I

783
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 1: am going to say it anyways, Please take care of yourself.

784
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: You know you don't need to do everything for them.

785
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,959
Speaker 1: You don't need to find a solution. You also don't

786
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: need to give every part of yourself to make sure

787
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: they're okay at the end of the day. And I

788
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: know people will disagree with me here, but you do

789
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: come first in every situation. You do come first. You

790
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: should be your own first priority. So it's okay to

791
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: take space. It's okay to also communicate your needs. Even

792
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: if it feels like their mental burden is bigger or

793
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: more worthwhile than yours. That's not the case. Like you

794
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: also have needs and have struggles of your own that

795
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 1: deserve to be appreciated. So here is question two for

796
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,280
Speaker 1: today's episode. How can you tell the difference between long

797
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: term high functioning or master depression and just being burnt out?

798
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: This one is tricky. Honestly, I think they sometimes feel

799
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: the same at times, you could even have both at

800
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: the same time, because burnout isn't just physical, it's mental

801
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 1: and emotional as well, and it can actually lead to

802
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: a depressed state or trigger a depressive episode. I think

803
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: the biggest way to tell the difference is whether it's

804
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: exhaustion or a lack of interest that you're experiencing, and

805
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: whether the exhaustion is being met with consistent, persistent sadness.

806
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 1: So with burnout, it's often like you're just so tired

807
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: that you can't do anything, but you still kind of

808
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,399
Speaker 1: want to and you still kind of want the opportunity.

809
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: But you know, with depression, it's like, yes, you're exhausted

810
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: because you're mentally drained, but you also have no desire

811
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: sometimes to even you have no desire to do the

812
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: things that you would normally want to do. You have

813
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: no desire to become more motivated, you have no desire

814
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: to you know, be social. But with burnout, you're like,

815
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: I really wish I could do those things, I just can't.

816
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: Here are some good questions as well to tell the difference.

817
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: So do you feel better after a break? If yes,

818
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 1: that's probably burnout. Has this lasted for months or years,

819
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: even with changes in a routine. In your routine, if yes,

820
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: that's probably master depression. Do you still care about things

821
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 1: even if you don't have energy if yes, burnout? Do

822
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: you feel indifferent to things that you once loved? If yes,

823
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: master depression. I also think you know taking care of

824
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: yourself will be similar for both of these things, so

825
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 1: you might find that just acting on one may eliminate

826
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: the other or may help, So you don't always need

827
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: to know whether it's burnout or depression immediately. The main

828
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: things of getting rest, of pulling back from things that

829
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: are stressing you out or additional responsibilities, the main objective

830
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: of offloading tasks and asking for help and going easy

831
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: from your easy on yourself, Like, that's going to be

832
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,439
Speaker 1: the same regardless of what situation you're in, So yeah,

833
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: approach that way. Okay, Our final question for the day.

834
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: I know I have high functioning depression, and I know

835
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: what I need to do to feel better and get

836
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: to a better place, but I can't bring myself to

837
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: do it. How do I motivate myself when all my

838
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 1: energy is going to just trying to stay afloat? Firstly,

839
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. I know what

840
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: must be so frustrating for you when you push yourself

841
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: so hard in every other area of your life, and

842
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: it can feel very hopeless when it comes to this

843
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: very big hurdle. The best thing I can recommend you

844
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: do that's worked for me is to just pick one

845
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 1: thing at a time to improve. If you are an overachiever,

846
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: we tend to put everything on the list, right you know,

847
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,760
Speaker 1: we acknowledge. Okay, I have a depression, I'm feeling terrible.

848
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: I need to act on this. And if I have

849
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: to act, I have to do a million things right

850
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: now to change my life, to change my attitude, to

851
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 1: feel better, to get help. That can lead you to

852
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: feel very overwhelmed because your perfectionism kicks in. You know,

853
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: if I can't do all of it, I should do

854
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 1: none of it, and you get overwhelmed by where to

855
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,799
Speaker 1: start because everything is suddenly equally important. So what we

856
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: need to focus on is just one change for every

857
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: two weeks. So the first two weeks I just want

858
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: you to focus on, Okay, I'm going to put all

859
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: my energy, the limited energy I have to seeing a

860
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: doctor who's going to help me find a therapist. In

861
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: that second. That second chapter, and then after that, my

862
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: next task is going to be reaching out, and I'm

863
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: going to give myself a couple of days, a couple

864
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: of weeks to do that so I don't feel overwhelmed.

865
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: Then when I'm ready, I'm gonna start implementing behavioral changes.

866
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: When I'm ready, I'm going to start booking appointments. Then

867
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to start journaling once a week. But we

868
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 1: are going slow. We are making small incremental changes that

869
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: tend to snowball into much bigger results. So just seeing

870
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: your life as the next two weeks. What can you

871
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: do in the next two weeks that are going to

872
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 1: make you feel better in the moment. You don't have

873
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: to think about the long term. You don't have to

874
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 1: be obsessed with curing yourself or getting everything done. I

875
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 1: just want you to focus on one thing at a

876
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,720
Speaker 1: time and just don't overwhelm yourself. We'll get there slowly

877
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: and surely. So I think this is all we have

878
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: time for today. I know it's been a long episode,

879
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: so thank you if you have made it this far.

880
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: You guys know I always love to drop a little

881
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 1: emoji hint for the loyal listeners amongst you who get

882
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: to this point. So today I want you to leave

883
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: an emoji of your favorite animal. I don't know why

884
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 1: I chose that. It just seems fun, it seems appropriate,

885
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 1: It seems a little bit lighthearted given how heavy this

886
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: episode was, So yes, drop your favorite animal as an

887
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 1: emoji below. Remember there are also resources listed in the description,

888
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: ways to access help, further, ways to educate yourself, whether

889
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 1: you are someone with master depression or someone helping a

890
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: loved one. And I just want to send you a

891
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: lot of love and healing. Like I know this is

892
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: very difficult. Whatever is drawn you to this episode today

893
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: and drawn you to listen this far, I'm sure it

894
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: can sometimes feel quite heavy. So I'm with you and

895
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: that pain and with you and that struggle. I've been there,

896
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,919
Speaker 1: and I can say that we do get better and

897
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: life does feel amazing again. And if you're on mask

898
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: and if you let people in, it just gets so

899
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,319
Speaker 1: much lighter. So I really, I really want that for you.

900
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: But until next time, my lovely lovely listeners, make sure

901
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: you are following me on Instagram at that Psychology podcast.

902
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: Make sure you pre order my book. It comes out

903
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: in less than a month, And I'd love to hear

904
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 1: your thoughts on it when you finally get a copy,

905
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 1: and until next time, stay safe, be kind, be gentle

906
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: with yourself, and we will talk very very soon,