WEBVTT - Ep. 037 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.279 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:27.720 can't predict anything. Okay, Welcome to the Meat Eater. I 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.840 changed the name. It's now the Meat Eater Digital Radio Program. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.440 I like that better. There's a bunch of people here. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.199 I'm gonna introduce him like how if if I was 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.199 dealing poker by going clockwise? Yo, honestly tell us by 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.720 Janni is his new name? Garrett Smith, who has a 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.920 distended belly right now, and he's and he's got a 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.960 chew packed and somehow they're related like that chew is 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.520 gonna alleviate his distended belly. I think he was trying 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.520 to tell us in some kind of subtle way. Um, 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:02.320 Chris Gil like a fish, like a fish. Who's a 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.399 turkey man? Now you just heard your first turkey gowl? 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.520 I did? Is that true? I think it is? Yeah. 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.080 I can't remember hearing one before that, I mean, you know, 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:16.160 other than digitally. Yeah. And then Dr Carl Malcolm Carl 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:21.320 tell us about the Wisconsin supersow Man, the Wisconsin Supersou, 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.080 the wiscon This is the most this is it? Yeah? 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.840 Tell us about the Wisconsin supersou all right, so a 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:31.640 little backstory, lay it all out, lay it all out, 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.520 all right, I mean within reason. Okay, So so my 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:40.840 mom and my father. Yeah, so I'll began right around um. 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:42.760 All right, So I went to graduate school at the 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.520 University of Wisconsin Madison, which, by the way, was the 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.160 first wildlife management program anywhere in the world, founded by 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.600 Aldo Leopold after he left the Forest Service. That was 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.320 one of the draws for me and kind of a 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:59.200 Leopold junkie growing up. Um, but going to Madison, I 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:04.160 was in kind of the southern farm belt region of Wisconsin, 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.680 and as you travel north in the state of Wisconsin, 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:12.440 you increasingly get into more and more forested landscapes, to 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:13.880 the point where you get up into the northern part 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.200 of the state, and the northern third is predominantly forested. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.799 So about halfway up you're in this interesting mix where 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.200 you've got about a fifty fifty ratio of row crops 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.160 like corn and soybeans and forest. And our good friend 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.520 Doug Durn and south of that line, yep, he's south 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.480 of that line. He's just like solid egg. No, well, 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.880 defining like the defining feature or how would you put it? 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.280 You know, So the Driftless area, the southwest part of 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.200 the state where dug Durn is located is is interesting 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:50.000 because it does have a major agricultural component, but there's 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.680 certainly a lot of forest land, and part of that 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.520 is because there's so much slope, which is unusual for 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.600 the rest of the state until Yeah, so there's there's 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.160 some untillable land, which is where you typically have forests 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:03.560 there in the Driftless area. And this relates to the 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.200 story because what's been happening for the last few decades 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.520 is that black bears throughout the Midwest are increasingly expanding 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.120 their range southward. So I don't know if Doug has 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.320 any stories about bears showing up in his property in 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.240 the Driftless area yet, not yet, because I feel like 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:21.799 if he did, I would have heard about it. Yeah, well, 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.600 because he'll tell you about everything down to a greener showing, 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.040 you know what I mean. I imagine he would, and 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.079 I predict that he will have that story before too 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.519 long because certainly bears, why why are bears mark him south? 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.080 Like my theory on it, and this is completely untested 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.360 and probably you probably i'd recommend you do not publish 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.800 the paper on this is it. It It just took him 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:47.160 a hundred fifty years to get used to people. That's 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:51.880 the case. So what I think it has to do 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:58.880 with is persecution. So black bears are extremely adaptable with 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.480 their diet, and everybody knows is there. Like the classic omnivore, 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:06.280 they'll eat anything. They can subsist on vegetation purely. They 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.480 can do very well chowing down on meat and typically speaking, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.320 they're eating some combination of the two. So they can 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.280 exist just about anywhere where there's where there's food for him. 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.720 You know, my neighbor, uh, you'll at my last cabin. 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:23.280 He's telling about a guy that had a bear come 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:28.520 into his workshop and drink three gallons gear oil. That's unreal. 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:34.159 I wonder if you killed it. If it didn't, it 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:42.640 probably tore some gastro intestinal situation. Was debating whether or 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.200 not to go there. But I took the high road 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:48.640 and let you take it there. So thanks for being Yeah, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.680 phenomenal omnivorse. So the point is they're they're really adaptable. 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.200 They can live just about anywhere as long as they're 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.320 not being shot to the point where it's not sustainable. 0:04:57.400 --> 0:04:59.360 You know, if, like anything else, if you shoot enough 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.640 of them, or you know, trap enough of them, if 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.560 you eliminate enough from the from the population, they're not 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.000 going to exist in a particular part of the state anymore. So. 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.440 The bears, like many other species UM that are managed 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:18.600 by state agencies as hunted species, have been on an 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.800 upward trajectory since their low point when they weren't being 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.360 managed as such. So essentially, bears, like many other species, 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:30.640 were persecuted by unregulated hunting for a long time and 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.440 driven out. I mean, we're just like no rules about 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.760 take and it doesn't matter what time of year, saw 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.440 with cubs whatever. You could at a time shoot a 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.920 bear and there was no just like everything else, right, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.600 I mean at a time, that's what it was for 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:48.880 all these species. But under managed under a management scenario 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:52.440 where we're tracking populations, were making sure that the number 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.479 of bears taken is sustainable. Um, they are showing that 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.960 they're capable of existing well outside of what people think 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.120 of as bear country, including places like southwest Wisconsin, which 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:08.000 historically certainly had bears and now increasingly has bears showing 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:12.640 up places like Richland County as an example. Yeah, right, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:15.240 So I'm throwing it out there for you. Always feel 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:19.039 like calling Dug up right now if he if he 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:21.599 doesn't have a bear story about his property, he will 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.200 he'll have well he will soon, I think, and he'll 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:29.480 certainly have bear stories from other people's properties. So part 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.920 of the equation here with the expanding bear population is 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.000 the super Sal and bears like her. And the super 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.839 Sal was an individual bear that was part of my 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.640 research project and as a graduate student at the University Wisconsin. 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.880 Who but tell, tell, tell what you were doing? Okay, 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:50.240 So I was looking at that spatial expansion. So what 0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.719 I was doing, I was I was specifically focused on 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:59.159 dispersing subadults. So black bears are really interesting and that 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.560 you know they're they're in the den. So they they 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.640 emerge into the world um with their mother in the 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.240 den and basically just latch on and nurse for the 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.400 first couple of months of their lives, and then the 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.680 family emerges from the den in the spring. I gotta 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.640 ask you the other question, bring it. What's the difference 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:25.120 between precocial. They're not precocial, they are altricial. Altricial. Yeah, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:30.000 So they're born in a state where essentially um they're 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:36.040 relatively underdeveloped, they're tiny, their limbs are barely formed when 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.640 they're born, and they basically just navigate from the birth 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:45.280 canal to a nipple latch on. And bears in general, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.440 including black bears, crank out some of the most calorie 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.720 dense milk anywhere in the animal kingdom. It's like liquid 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.920 butter coming from those nipples. So they grow really fast, 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:02.240 and they do after the wrong nipples. Yeah, I mean 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.280 it's amazing. So as an example, you know, I have 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.520 my hand on a lot of bears um during the 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.920 field work. And when you go to work up a 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:13.520 den that had a sow with cubs, the styles would 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.080 be lactating. And there were a number of times where 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.800 explaining working up a den. But use a checklist for you. 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.000 I want you to I want to do a quickie 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:28.360 pre precocial altricial. Do quickie on that. And then don't 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:29.960 just say work up a den, because no one's gonna 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.640 know what the hell that means. Okay, all right, precuecial altricial. 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:37.480 So species that are born precocial have the ability to 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:43.319 do things like evade predation. So, for example, like pronghorn fawns, 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.520 when they're born it's a matter of days before they're 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.719 up on their feet and able to cruise if a 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:52.839 predator shows up. Alright, altricial species are born in a 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:54.599 state where they still have a lot of development to go. 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.599 So we're humans are altricial. Yeah, man, Yeah, you know, 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.520 infant is not going to evade pre ation. It's got 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.400 to be protected, just like a bear cup all right. Now, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.760 working up a den essentially, what I'm referring to is 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.560 going into a place where bears are hibernating. They've been 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:12.920 located either because they've got a radio collar or someone 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:16.320 from the public has encountered a den and contacted through 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:22.640 some avenue researchers like myself, and we go into the 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:27.120 den with typically a poll syringe or a jab stick, 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:31.800 which is basically envisioned like a broom handle with a 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.040 big syringe and a needle on the end. And the 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.000 goal is to be able to give the bear an 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:41.520 injection in some major muscle without putting yourself in harm's way. 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:45.719 So you're either trying to get an injection somewhere like 0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.240 in the buttock or in the shoulder. Those are the 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.480 two best spots to try to get a stick, and 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:54.560 the den's. You know, when people think of a bear den, 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.760 most folks are thinking like a hole in the ground 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.480 with the bears piled up in it, a cave. But 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.520 and and sometimes that is the case. But I would say, man, 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.880 probably around half the time they're above ground, maybe in 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.120 like a a slash pile where they've kind of carved 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.679 out a little nest, or sometimes just laying on the 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.960 ground in the wide open. You were saying, you found 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.760 him dend up just under like some bows, over under 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.200 overhanging evergreen boughs. I found him, you know, I found 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.160 him dend up in places where they really have almost 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.360 no cover. They're just like laying there in the snow, 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.160 getting snowed on, and the cubs will be curled up 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.840 against their bellies. Um, and it doesn't look like they 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:36.439 put any effort at all into seeking like shelter of 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.240 any form, so highly variable, what these dens look like. 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:42.959 I was gonna just ask if you have like has 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:46.400 that always been like that, like when you read older papers, 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.040 did they have research that shows that as well? Or 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:50.960 do you feel do you have a hypothesis on maybe 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.880 why that's is it happening more now than it used to? 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.079 Like the expanding bears aren't finding good spots, you know, man, 0:10:57.280 --> 0:10:58.839 or maybe they don't need to because the winner is 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.959 still In some places. They don't even hibernate, right, I 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.079 mean they in hibernation is a whole different subject. You know, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.959 they're not technically true hibernators. They go into like a 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.920 seasonal sort of downturn in their metabolism, but they're not 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.800 a true hibernating species. Um So, I don't think it's 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.679 something that has changed. I think it's part of their 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.800 life history. Um So, No, I don't. I do not 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:27.080 think that the denning without a hole in the ground 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:30.080 is something that is new for black bears, like it's 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:31.599 part of their life history. It has been part of 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:36.839 their life history. They basically do what they need to 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:41.079 do to survive. Some bears one year will make it, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.160 then the next year not. There doesn't seem to be 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.120 any rhyme or reason. One interesting pattern that was true 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.240 throughout my research and was conveyed to me by other 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.520 folks who have done a lot of bear handling, is 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.319 that an individual bear will not use the same den 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:01.480 location twice ever, and in some cases, and I thought 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:04.240 it was twice in a row but they'll alternate. I've 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:07.160 I've never seen a bear go back to the same place, 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.000 and the people with whom I have done my research 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:13.200 have never seen a den get reused. What it makes sense. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:20.800 There's a guy I know in northern Wisconsin. Um, his 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:25.559 last name is Heart maybe Bill Hart. He owns a 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:31.440 T shirt shop. Where's Northland College something like that. There 0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:33.719 is Northland College, I can't remember the town. They have 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.440 to think called the Secret f Olson Nature Writing Award. Yeah, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.640 and I won that award and was hosted by this 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.160 man Bill Hart. He took me down and showed me 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:47.880 undercut Bank on his property where every other year there's 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.760 a black bear with cubs in there, and there's a 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.600 little hole he can even look in there. So maybe 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.160 it's different bears. It's just a SP's different bears. Maybe 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.360 it's the same bear disproving this pattern that I've served. 0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.800 I'm sure he listen. I hate guys like I hate 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.280 people to do what I just did, because you're trying 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.600 to talk about like generally right, So generally it's bad 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.960 to smoke tons of cigarettes and then someone's like agreeable, 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:18.040 you know, so it's like, yeah, interesting side this fello 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.880 by the last name of Heart. I will go on 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.760 to say this, I guarantee you in the history of 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.920 American black bears, a bear has reused a den. That's 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.160 that's all I'm trying to say. Man, generally speaking, black 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:33.640 bears do not reuse den sights. And this the super 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.000 Saudi asked about is a really interesting example of this 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:41.440 because she denned in the same like hundred yard by 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:46.080 hundred yard area, but shows different locations within this small 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.560 footprint during the years that I found. You're worried about 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.880 disease transmission of some sort. I don't know. I don't know. 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.920 Maybe it's who knows. Man, Trying to get into the 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:57.480 mind of a bear is what we're doing here, and 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.960 I think it's But I don't like. Yeah, it's an 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.120 when you're talking about like why things do things, why 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.640 animals do things, A lot of people say, like, for instance, 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.280 the r day, my friend Heart, he's got a bear 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.719 that comes back to the same he's convinced it's the 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.040 same bear. Yeah, And I don't think I said, like, 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.760 never has a bear done this. I'm not taking your task. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:21.040 I'm just I'm just asking a point. I like it. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.160 I like it. Um And then knowing thing people do 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.320 and I do it all the time, is you'll say, 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.000 let me give an example. I was yesterday admiring some 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:36.760 turkeys that we shot on our turkey hunt. It's a 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.800 Miriam's turkey, and a Miriam's turkey has a lot of 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.840 white on the end of their feathers. I was saying, 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:49.000 I wonder if that has to do with heat reducing 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.800 how many how much radiant surface because it's a it's 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:56.120 an animal from the southwest, very intense sun. An Eastern 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.760 turkey has a lot of black on it. Maybe these 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.000 turkeys have a lot more white on them as an 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.200 adaptive advantage about radiant heat, Like maybe that's a problem 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.440 getting too hot. So I think that when you look 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.920 at stuff you be you'd say, like you, I can't 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.720 say that that's why those turkeys evolved that what you 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:18.720 could not pillage, But what would you call it? I'd 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.120 call it that. Okay, I can't say that's why those 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:24.440 turkeys evolved that pellage, but I could say that could 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.520 be something to do with it, or that it could 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:31.760 have that effect in reducing radiant heat. So, but I 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.200 find talking to scientists like yourself, I'll be like, oh, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.480 do they do it. Do the bears not want to 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:41.080 go back, maybe because of mits or some kind of 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.840 thing like that. I know you don't know all the way, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.760 but is that a reasonable Yes, it's a reasonable idea. 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.160 It's a reasonable idea. It will be another reasonable idea 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:56.680 maybe to be unpredictable. You know, if they've got a 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.560 den that has been there on the ground for X 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.280 number of months and a certain number of animals have 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:06.240 encountered that den and become aware of its existence, then 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:10.560 there might be some adaptive advantage to moving locations, you know, 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:19.000 especially if you have those extremely altricial cubs to look after. Um. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.960 You know, basically the onus is entirely on a mother 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.520 bear to make sure those cubs get to the point 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.400 where they can climb a tree. And they've got a 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:34.880 long road to ho from the time they're born before 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.680 they're to that point, because they're born in the middle 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:39.000 of the winter, right, Yeah, that's right, like February March 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.120 or something like that. Yeah, late January, yep. And then 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:43.960 like I said, you know, when when they're born, they're 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.480 they're tiny, and by the time they're coming out of 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.680 the den, they've gone from being you know, like something 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:51.480 you hold in the palm in your hand to be 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.160 in something that's four or five, six, maybe seven pounds, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:00.720 And so the mother has she's got to bring all 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.280 that all those calories, all that energy into the den 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.760 with her both to maintain that pregnancy, deliver the cubs, 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:14.119 and then provide enough nutrition through her milk to get 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:16.280 him to the point where when they emerge from the den, 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.720 she can wolf at them and they're ready to climb, 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.400 because once they leave the den, you know, she's she's 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:29.400 not in a position to just protect them the way 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.240 she can while they're they're all bawled up in a pilot, dogs, 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.840 other bears, all manner of things. Yeah, definitely. So that's 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.920 you covered on everything so far. No, man, I'm sharp, 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:45.080 I am sharp. I'm good. It is fascinating stuff. And 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.320 by the way, one of the highlights of this week 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.040 turkey hunting. Yea, you guys almost got killed by bear. No, 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:55.240 we didn't almost. We had to bear encounters this week though. Um. 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.920 The first one was going out trying to locate some 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.080 birds in the evening and I heard what sounded like 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.000 a cub kind of bowling down the hill from us, 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.240 and then a bunch of claw marks on a tree 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.200 and then what had to have been the sow popping 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.080 her teeth, and given how late it was in the day, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.240 I decided not to take the shotgun with me. I 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:18.639 was just kind of strolling up the hill, and when 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.080 I heard that sow pop in her teeth, I was like, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:24.240 let's let's take this other direction. And then, uh, what 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.960 was even a cooler sighting was um as yesterday morning 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.680 man saw that the biggest bear I've seen since coming 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.400 to New Mexico. And it was also the blondest bear, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:38.520 this great big boar, and UH had him while I 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.720 was putting a decoy in the ground and heard a 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.320 twig pop and looked over and he was no more 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:45.359 than seventy yards away looking at me through the trees, 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:47.520 and he was just beautiful. And then we we set 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.080 up a couple more times, and he came back in 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:50.639 to check us out, and he was woofing at us 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:52.840 from up the hill, so we all got a good 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:54.600 look at him. Is just a beautiful animal man there, 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.680 And you're getting a lot of bear vocalizations, which is usual. Yeah, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.960 that's true. You know, I was telling you I one 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:06.280 time was hand calling to a tom to a gobbler 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:11.960 and heard an exhale over my shoulder, like how someone 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:13.400 would do, like they're a little bit tired from walking 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.000 up a hill. And it was a bear, I mean 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.760 arms distance that that would be an exaggeration, extremely clear 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.480 enough where I could like, I could hear it breathe. 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:26.919 He's coming to kill that hand When I turned around, Man, 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:32.640 it's scared the ship out of him. Scared. He freaked out. Yeah, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.439 he did not like that man. Yeah, and that big 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.480 one yesterday when he first saw me, he went part 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:39.920 way up a tree and decided that wasn't his best 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.480 course of defense. Came back down the tree, making so 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.840 much noise, breaking big branches, claws scraping on the side 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.480 of the tree, and then tore off up the mountain. 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:51.920 And it surprised me that he came back in to 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:53.639 check us out when we were calling again. So I 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:55.639 don't know if the turkey he went and got pumped up. 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.000 Maybe he's like, come on, dude, your whole life he's 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.520 been running, Go down there. You've got that guy. But 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.560 at least two and a half bills. It was an 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:10.440 awesome animal. Man Okay, Wisconsin, Supersouth, Okay, Wisconsin. Super south. 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:13.119 So aside from the fact that she came back to 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:17.359 the same general need, I needed more background. Okay, how 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.960 many bear dance have you dug up? I would have 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:22.600 to look at my notebook to give you an answer. 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:30.440 I would say, oh, gosh, in the neighborhood of lady 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.160 to fifty dans something like that that I've been or everybody. 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:36.600 So I should give you a little more context on 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.640 the research projects. We're interested in. This expansion of black 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.639 bears south in their range, so individuals moving farther and 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:46.800 farther south. And as you know from all the other 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.359 species that show up in crazy places like mountain lions 0:20:50.400 --> 0:20:53.560 showing up in New York State. You know these critters 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:59.040 that go hundreds of miles. Typically it's these young males 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.760 disperse sing that go great distances. So I was really 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.840 interested in looking at the dispersal behavior of black bears. 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.399 So what I needed for that research project was to 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:15.159 get GPS collars on yearling bears and a little bit 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:17.280 more about the biology of the species. Got you, I 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.359 got you. So born in the den, they get up 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.160 to let's say five pounds, come out of the den 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.320 with mom in the spring, keep growing still really dependent 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:33.000 on mom for their defense. Spend that whole spring, summer, fall, 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:38.200 buy mom's side, side like insight of mom or in 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.000 sound range of mom. And if something's going wrong, all 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:43.680 that mother bear has to do is give a wolf, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.399 and the cubs know they've got to get up the 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:50.000 nearest tree. So what a lot of people don't know 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.840 is that when that second winner comes around, now you've 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:59.240 got Mama bear and a bunch of you know, we 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.240 call them year things, but they're less than a year old. 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.120 They're just about to complete their first year. They all 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.840 den up together again, so you'll have a beared end 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.320 that might have let's say a sow that weighs two 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.960 thirty pounds, and then she's got x number of one 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.359 year old cubs, some of which might weigh as much 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:23.399 as a hundred pounds themselves, all piled up together. So 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:28.080 it could be a huge like biomass of bear in 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:30.680 a heap, and they're sorting it all out. And and 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.600 especially if they're underground, you know, so I mentioned I 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.439 described this this polsyringe that you used to sedate the bears. 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.760 And if they're underground, you know, you've got like a 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:41.520 head lamp and you're looking in there and it's a 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.959 dark hole and a dark animal and they're the way 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:47.480 that they're piled up, it's like super spooning. It's like 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.600 a tangled mass of limbs and heads and trying to 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.359 figure out where one bear ends and another bear begins. 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:56.959 And you don't even know how many bears there are 0:22:57.080 --> 0:22:59.159 down in the hole. Like when our kids crawling with 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:01.840 me and my wife, man, yeah, just wake up. It's hard. 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:03.760 You can't get out. So you're like, is that is 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:08.119 that Steve's thigh or you know, you have no idea, 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.880 so it can. It was, and it is a nerve 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:14.639 racking thing at first to intentionally go up to a 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:19.080 den and try to sedate these animals. And you got 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.560