1 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:51,961 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold 2 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,361 Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite 3 00:00:55,401 --> 00:00:58,761 Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially 4 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,961 Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights 5 00:01:03,001 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be 6 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,961 Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts 7 00:01:10,041 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone has 8 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. 9 00:01:17,961 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply 10 00:01:21,041 --> 00:01:23,601 Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime 11 00:01:24,121 --> 00:01:27,121 Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening. 12 00:01:29,161 --> 00:01:33,441 Speaker 2: On the night of December second, nineteen seventy six, three girls, 13 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: thirteen year old Teresa Williams, fourteen year old Crystal Danita Parton, 14 00:01:38,441 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 2: and thirteen year old Cynthia Maybray, we're hanging out together 15 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: at the Fairview of State's apartment. 16 00:01:44,001 --> 00:01:45,241 Speaker 3: In Russellville, Arkansas. 17 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,521 Speaker 2: At some point that day all three girls disappeared. No 18 00:01:51,601 --> 00:01:55,281 Speaker 2: one was quite sure what happened that day. All three 19 00:01:55,321 --> 00:01:58,281 Speaker 2: girls lived in the same neighborhood and all of them 20 00:01:58,321 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 2: disappeared at around the same time. Cynthia was last seen 21 00:02:02,641 --> 00:02:06,401 Speaker 2: at her home in Fairview Estates on December second, at 22 00:02:06,441 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: approximately five thirty pm. Teresa and Crystal were also reported 23 00:02:11,721 --> 00:02:15,921 Speaker 2: missing that day by their families. I have read about 24 00:02:15,921 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: this story over the years, but it turns out there's 25 00:02:18,841 --> 00:02:21,161 Speaker 2: a lot of this story that never made it into 26 00:02:21,201 --> 00:02:25,601 Speaker 2: any media reports. Most media reports that I've read indicate 27 00:02:25,721 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: that three girls were hanging around when a strange man 28 00:02:28,441 --> 00:02:30,881 Speaker 2: approached them and asked them if they wanted to get 29 00:02:30,921 --> 00:02:35,121 Speaker 2: into his car and drink some alcohol, and they reluctantly accepted. 30 00:02:36,121 --> 00:02:36,881 Speaker 3: The things that. 31 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,401 Speaker 2: I've read online make it seem like this could have 32 00:02:40,481 --> 00:02:43,601 Speaker 2: been a case of stranger abduction. But as we're going 33 00:02:43,641 --> 00:02:47,081 Speaker 2: to see, there is much more to this story that 34 00:02:47,161 --> 00:02:51,041 Speaker 2: we uncovered. It turns out that the girls had made 35 00:02:51,041 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 2: a plan to run away. Cynthia's mother, Doris Parton, told 36 00:02:54,921 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 2: police she was aware that the girls had a plan. 37 00:02:58,041 --> 00:03:00,281 Speaker 2: She believed that her daughter may have run away from 38 00:03:00,281 --> 00:03:02,921 Speaker 2: home and that she and her two friends were believed 39 00:03:02,961 --> 00:03:06,561 Speaker 2: to be headed for Fort Hood, Texas. The last time 40 00:03:06,641 --> 00:03:09,681 Speaker 2: her mother saw Cynthia, she was wearing blue jeans, a 41 00:03:09,721 --> 00:03:12,401 Speaker 2: white top, and a blue coat with a fur collar. 42 00:03:14,321 --> 00:03:18,001 Speaker 2: Part of the story was true, those three girls did 43 00:03:18,081 --> 00:03:20,641 Speaker 2: get into a car with a man, a man they 44 00:03:20,721 --> 00:03:25,921 Speaker 2: knew and trusted. Then no one ever saw any trace 45 00:03:26,001 --> 00:03:30,881 Speaker 2: of the girls again until ten years later Thanksgiving Day 46 00:03:30,921 --> 00:03:34,161 Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty six, when a couple, Boy Duncan and 47 00:03:34,201 --> 00:03:37,841 Speaker 2: his wife Bernice, were deer hunting south of Rock Cemetery 48 00:03:38,681 --> 00:03:41,761 Speaker 2: when they found a human skull laying near a tree. 49 00:03:42,721 --> 00:03:46,321 Speaker 2: This was just the beginning of an investigation into an 50 00:03:46,321 --> 00:03:51,881 Speaker 2: Ozark serial killer. I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past seven 51 00:03:51,961 --> 00:03:54,841 Speaker 2: years of making my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've 52 00:03:54,921 --> 00:03:57,521 Speaker 2: learned that there's no such thing as a small town 53 00:03:57,601 --> 00:04:01,881 Speaker 2: where murder never happens. I've received hundreds of messages from 54 00:04:01,921 --> 00:04:04,801 Speaker 2: people all around the country asking for help with an 55 00:04:04,881 --> 00:04:09,001 Speaker 2: unsolved murder that's affected them, their families, and their communities. 56 00:04:09,921 --> 00:04:11,841 Speaker 2: If you have a case you'd like me and my 57 00:04:11,881 --> 00:04:14,281 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 58 00:04:14,321 --> 00:04:16,801 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 59 00:04:16,961 --> 00:04:20,761 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 60 00:04:20,801 --> 00:04:25,001 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five, or you 61 00:04:25,041 --> 00:04:28,721 Speaker 2: can send us a message on Instagram at Helen gonepod. 62 00:04:29,440 --> 00:05:17,841 Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Before we get into 63 00:05:17,841 --> 00:05:20,801 Speaker 2: the forensics, we have to go back to nineteen seventy 64 00:05:20,841 --> 00:05:25,121 Speaker 2: six and try to understand how and why a serial 65 00:05:25,201 --> 00:05:29,801 Speaker 2: killer kept slipping through the police's fingers and escaping justice. 66 00:05:30,161 --> 00:05:33,361 Speaker 2: One person whose name came up early in the investigation 67 00:05:34,041 --> 00:05:39,681 Speaker 2: was James B. Grinder, sometimes known as JB. Teresa Williams's 68 00:05:39,681 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: cousin had told police back in nineteen seventy six that 69 00:05:43,041 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: he saw James with Theresa that day, but when police 70 00:05:46,961 --> 00:05:50,001 Speaker 2: talked to James, he told them yes, he had seen 71 00:05:50,041 --> 00:05:53,041 Speaker 2: the three girls. He claimed that he dropped them off 72 00:05:53,081 --> 00:05:57,281 Speaker 2: at the interstate exit for Pottsville. James told police that 73 00:05:57,321 --> 00:05:59,961 Speaker 2: the girls had told him they were running away to Oklahoma, 74 00:06:00,721 --> 00:06:03,401 Speaker 2: and James said he had an alibi he had been 75 00:06:03,441 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: at his girlfriend, Donna's house. 76 00:06:05,881 --> 00:06:07,961 Speaker 3: Since the victim's remains. 77 00:06:07,481 --> 00:06:10,801 Speaker 2: Had not been found and James Grinder had an alibi, 78 00:06:11,561 --> 00:06:16,881 Speaker 2: police assumed the girls were runaways. The investigative notes indicate 79 00:06:16,961 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: that at the time police interviewed James, he refused to 80 00:06:19,761 --> 00:06:22,841 Speaker 2: take a polygraph test, so in their investigative notes, they 81 00:06:22,881 --> 00:06:25,681 Speaker 2: said they believed he was not being truthful about what 82 00:06:25,721 --> 00:06:28,441 Speaker 2: had actually happened to the girls. But at the end 83 00:06:28,441 --> 00:06:31,841 Speaker 2: of the day, the original investigators did not believe that 84 00:06:31,881 --> 00:06:34,641 Speaker 2: he was capable of killing them, they let him go. 85 00:06:35,721 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: That was in nineteen seventy six, but by nineteen eighty six, 86 00:06:41,001 --> 00:06:45,041 Speaker 2: James was a suspect in another murder, this time in Missouri. 87 00:06:46,321 --> 00:06:49,161 Speaker 2: On the early morning of January eighth, nineteen eighty four, 88 00:06:49,601 --> 00:06:53,801 Speaker 2: twenty five year old Julianne Helton's parents were worried. Julianne 89 00:06:53,801 --> 00:06:55,681 Speaker 2: had gone out to a party in New Cambria the 90 00:06:55,761 --> 00:06:59,881 Speaker 2: night before on January seventh, but then she never came home, 91 00:07:00,641 --> 00:07:03,641 Speaker 2: so they filed a missing persons report, and the Missouri 92 00:07:03,681 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: State Highway Patrol ran across her abandoned car at the 93 00:07:07,241 --> 00:07:11,561 Speaker 2: Marsoline junction in Macon County, Missouri. There were signs that 94 00:07:11,641 --> 00:07:15,601 Speaker 2: her car had been sabotaged. Julianne's purse was also missing, 95 00:07:16,601 --> 00:07:20,361 Speaker 2: so now police immediately suspected foul play in Julianne's death. 96 00:07:21,201 --> 00:07:24,561 Speaker 2: After searching for her for several days, on January eleventh, 97 00:07:24,681 --> 00:07:29,481 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, two volunteer searchers and railroad workers found 98 00:07:29,601 --> 00:07:33,361 Speaker 2: Julianne's body in a field near the Santa Fe railroad tracks, 99 00:07:33,761 --> 00:07:36,601 Speaker 2: about eight miles away from where her car had been found. 100 00:07:37,361 --> 00:07:41,361 Speaker 2: Julianne was fully clothed, but police later determined she had 101 00:07:41,401 --> 00:07:45,801 Speaker 2: been raped, beaten, and stabbed. Her hands had been tied 102 00:07:45,801 --> 00:07:49,321 Speaker 2: together with bailing twine, they were bound together in front 103 00:07:49,361 --> 00:07:53,041 Speaker 2: of her, and there were defensive wounds on her right hand. 104 00:07:53,961 --> 00:07:54,921 Speaker 3: Now, according to. 105 00:07:54,921 --> 00:08:00,241 Speaker 2: Media reports, police did find fingerprints on Julianne's car. Some 106 00:08:00,281 --> 00:08:03,401 Speaker 2: of the reports stated they were a match to James Grinder. 107 00:08:04,841 --> 00:08:08,761 Speaker 2: I'm not sure what happened to those fingerprints, if they 108 00:08:08,801 --> 00:08:11,601 Speaker 2: were lost, if they were ever tested, or even if 109 00:08:11,641 --> 00:08:13,801 Speaker 2: it's true that they were a match to James Grinder. 110 00:08:14,321 --> 00:08:17,121 Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, with insufficient evidence, 111 00:08:17,201 --> 00:08:20,041 Speaker 2: police apparently decided they couldn't make a case against him, 112 00:08:20,681 --> 00:08:25,841 Speaker 2: so James Grinder was released. Still, after Julie's murder, there 113 00:08:26,041 --> 00:08:29,561 Speaker 2: was a renewed interest in James Grinder, and investigators in 114 00:08:29,681 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 2: Arkansas went back to question everyone they had spoken to 115 00:08:32,881 --> 00:08:35,761 Speaker 2: ten years earlier. They were trying to do a deep 116 00:08:35,841 --> 00:08:39,001 Speaker 2: dive into a man they believed might be a serial killer. 117 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:45,081 Speaker 3: James B. Grinder was born in nineteen forty five. 118 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:48,601 Speaker 2: There's not a ton known about his childhood, but he 119 00:08:48,641 --> 00:08:51,401 Speaker 2: lived in Arkansas for a long time, and he had 120 00:08:51,441 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: what can best be described as kind of a messy 121 00:08:54,001 --> 00:08:57,081 Speaker 2: love life. At the time of the girl's disappearances, he 122 00:08:57,241 --> 00:09:01,201 Speaker 2: was dating different women. In nineteen seventy six, James was 123 00:09:01,241 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: involved with at least two women, Donna Hanson and Joanne Hinton. 124 00:09:05,441 --> 00:09:08,681 Speaker 2: He stayed on and off with both of them. Joanne 125 00:09:08,761 --> 00:09:12,361 Speaker 2: Hinton lived in the Fairview Estates Complex, the same complex 126 00:09:12,401 --> 00:09:15,641 Speaker 2: as the three girls who went missing. Jo Anne had 127 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:19,321 Speaker 2: a daughter from a previous relationship named Sandra. Sandra was 128 00:09:19,321 --> 00:09:23,521 Speaker 2: born in nineteen sixty three. She gave birth to James's son, 129 00:09:23,801 --> 00:09:28,681 Speaker 2: James Junior, in nineteen seventy. After the three girls disappeared, 130 00:09:29,241 --> 00:09:32,521 Speaker 2: James moved and settled in Macon County, Missouri, where he 131 00:09:32,601 --> 00:09:35,841 Speaker 2: reportedly married and had a daughter in nineteen eighty, though 132 00:09:35,881 --> 00:09:39,281 Speaker 2: he and the girl's mother did eventually separate. At the 133 00:09:39,321 --> 00:09:42,241 Speaker 2: time of his arrest, he was working as a woodcutter. 134 00:09:43,721 --> 00:09:47,401 Speaker 2: Sames Grinder had a criminal history in Arkansas. He had 135 00:09:47,481 --> 00:09:52,361 Speaker 2: a lifetime pattern of stealing things, especially cars. In August 136 00:09:52,361 --> 00:09:55,121 Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy six, according to the case file, he 137 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,441 Speaker 2: stole a septic tank truck, and then he and an 138 00:09:58,441 --> 00:10:02,401 Speaker 2: accomplice also stole cars, including a nineteen sixty seven Ford Galaxy, 139 00:10:02,841 --> 00:10:06,881 Speaker 2: a nineteen sixty six Plymouth Belvedere, a gold Ford Mustang, 140 00:10:07,041 --> 00:10:10,361 Speaker 2: and some tools and supplies. They stole a lot of 141 00:10:10,361 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: different items. In addition to cars, they also stole from 142 00:10:14,041 --> 00:10:18,521 Speaker 2: a school. They would grab calculators and typewriters. They vandalized 143 00:10:18,561 --> 00:10:20,601 Speaker 2: a trailer in the back of the school where they 144 00:10:20,601 --> 00:10:24,401 Speaker 2: got eight track tapes, cameras, and a knife set. So 145 00:10:24,921 --> 00:10:28,241 Speaker 2: coming back to the three missing girls, it turns out 146 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 2: that the three girls, Cynthia, Crystal, and Teresa were planning 147 00:10:32,721 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: on running way from home for a reason. They had 148 00:10:35,601 --> 00:10:39,081 Speaker 2: been stealing welfare checks from apartments in the Fairview complex 149 00:10:39,561 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: and they had also, according to what a witness told police, 150 00:10:42,721 --> 00:10:47,201 Speaker 2: been stealing items from stores for James Grinder. They would 151 00:10:47,201 --> 00:10:50,961 Speaker 2: steal things like jewelry and electronics. James would then fence 152 00:10:51,001 --> 00:10:53,161 Speaker 2: the items for them and of course take a cut 153 00:10:53,161 --> 00:10:56,361 Speaker 2: of the profits. One of the victims of this scam 154 00:10:56,521 --> 00:10:59,321 Speaker 2: was a woman named Helen Freeman. She also lived in 155 00:10:59,361 --> 00:11:03,201 Speaker 2: the Fairview apartment complex. She told police the last time 156 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,401 Speaker 2: she saw the girls was on December first. She claimed 157 00:11:06,401 --> 00:11:08,761 Speaker 2: that on that day she didn't get her welfare check 158 00:11:08,801 --> 00:11:12,721 Speaker 2: as usual, so the next day, on December second, she 159 00:11:12,881 --> 00:11:15,961 Speaker 2: asked the mailman about it. The mailman said he was 160 00:11:16,041 --> 00:11:18,521 Speaker 2: sure that he had put that check in her box 161 00:11:18,561 --> 00:11:22,001 Speaker 2: the day before. She told police one of the three 162 00:11:22,081 --> 00:11:25,721 Speaker 2: girls had stolen the check, and several witnesses told police 163 00:11:25,761 --> 00:11:28,081 Speaker 2: they had seen the girls at a nearby grocery store 164 00:11:28,081 --> 00:11:31,841 Speaker 2: trying to cash that welfare check. Apparently the store refused 165 00:11:31,841 --> 00:11:35,881 Speaker 2: to cash it. Then, according to witnesses, the three girls 166 00:11:36,001 --> 00:11:38,281 Speaker 2: were really freaked out by this. They thought they were 167 00:11:38,321 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: going to get into big trouble. So after the store 168 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: refused to cash the checks, they went back to joe 169 00:11:44,201 --> 00:11:47,601 Speaker 2: Aanne Hinton's house and tried to burn the checks. Joe 170 00:11:47,601 --> 00:11:50,161 Speaker 2: Anne Hinton was living on and off with James Grinder. 171 00:11:50,521 --> 00:11:54,201 Speaker 2: He was also there that day. Helen told police she 172 00:11:54,401 --> 00:11:56,921 Speaker 2: talked to joe Ane Hinton about all this. She said 173 00:11:57,001 --> 00:11:58,881 Speaker 2: joe Anne had made a comment to her about the 174 00:11:58,881 --> 00:12:02,481 Speaker 2: girls leaving town by the way. Helen also later told 175 00:12:02,521 --> 00:12:05,361 Speaker 2: police she saw joe Anne at a later date wearing 176 00:12:05,401 --> 00:12:07,961 Speaker 2: what she describes as a jacket she said was very 177 00:12:08,001 --> 00:12:09,881 Speaker 2: similar to the jacket that one of the girls was 178 00:12:09,881 --> 00:12:12,761 Speaker 2: wearing on the day they disappeared, a jacket with a 179 00:12:12,761 --> 00:12:17,721 Speaker 2: fur Caller Police talked to Sandra, joe Anne's daughter, who 180 00:12:17,801 --> 00:12:21,121 Speaker 2: had been around the girl's age when they disappeared. By 181 00:12:21,161 --> 00:12:23,921 Speaker 2: the time of the interview in nineteen eighty four, Sandra 182 00:12:24,121 --> 00:12:27,441 Speaker 2: was twenty one years old. She told them bluntly that 183 00:12:27,561 --> 00:12:30,921 Speaker 2: James was crazy, weird, dirty, a thief, and that he 184 00:12:31,041 --> 00:12:34,441 Speaker 2: had threatened to kill her mother on several occasions. She 185 00:12:34,601 --> 00:12:37,361 Speaker 2: told law enforcement James had an interest in young girls, 186 00:12:37,681 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: that he had tried to sexually assault his niece when 187 00:12:40,321 --> 00:12:43,681 Speaker 2: she was aged twelve or thirteen. Sandra said she was 188 00:12:43,721 --> 00:12:47,041 Speaker 2: the best friends with Crystal, Teresa, and Cynthia. She said 189 00:12:47,041 --> 00:12:50,961 Speaker 2: they all hung around together at Fairview Estates. Sandra said 190 00:12:51,001 --> 00:12:54,121 Speaker 2: that James made vulgar comments about them sometimes and would 191 00:12:54,121 --> 00:12:56,561 Speaker 2: try to hang around with them when they were with Sandra. 192 00:12:57,481 --> 00:12:59,481 Speaker 2: She said at one point he made a comment to 193 00:12:59,521 --> 00:13:02,001 Speaker 2: her about wanting to have the girls over because he 194 00:13:02,081 --> 00:13:07,321 Speaker 2: wanted some young stuff. Sandra talked about how James got 195 00:13:07,321 --> 00:13:10,121 Speaker 2: the three girls involved in his check cashing scam and 196 00:13:10,201 --> 00:13:13,081 Speaker 2: in his theft. He would drive them around the places 197 00:13:13,121 --> 00:13:15,881 Speaker 2: they wanted to go. He got them to steal things 198 00:13:15,881 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 2: from stores and give it to him to sell. Police 199 00:13:20,201 --> 00:13:22,961 Speaker 2: asked Sandra what she remembered about that day in nineteen 200 00:13:23,001 --> 00:13:27,641 Speaker 2: seventy six, the day when the girls disappeared. She said 201 00:13:27,801 --> 00:13:31,681 Speaker 2: that she remembered James driving Cynthia, Crystal, and Teresa to 202 00:13:31,721 --> 00:13:34,681 Speaker 2: a local store to try to cash those welfare checks. 203 00:13:35,321 --> 00:13:37,721 Speaker 2: In fact, she said she went with them to the 204 00:13:37,761 --> 00:13:42,561 Speaker 2: store to cash the checks, she distinctly remembered getting refused. 205 00:13:43,401 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: Said that the five of them, her James, Cynthia, Crystal, 206 00:13:47,721 --> 00:13:51,121 Speaker 2: and Teresa stopped at Walmart after that to buy cigarettes 207 00:13:51,121 --> 00:13:54,401 Speaker 2: because someone wanted them. Then, she said they drove back 208 00:13:54,401 --> 00:13:57,001 Speaker 2: to Fairview, where James and the girls let her out 209 00:13:57,041 --> 00:14:01,201 Speaker 2: of the car. Sandra said she remembered that Crystal, Cynthia, 210 00:14:01,241 --> 00:14:04,081 Speaker 2: and Teresa were worried about getting busted for that check scamp. 211 00:14:04,841 --> 00:14:08,441 Speaker 2: They asked James to drive them to the interstate. Sandra 212 00:14:08,561 --> 00:14:12,081 Speaker 2: said originally she was supposed to run away with the girls, 213 00:14:12,601 --> 00:14:15,761 Speaker 2: but she decided against it, so in the end they 214 00:14:15,841 --> 00:14:19,761 Speaker 2: dropped her back at home. Sandra told police she tried 215 00:14:19,801 --> 00:14:22,201 Speaker 2: to talk her friends out of running away, but. 216 00:14:22,241 --> 00:14:23,681 Speaker 3: In the end she couldn't. 217 00:14:24,201 --> 00:14:27,081 Speaker 2: She remembers the last time she saw her three friends 218 00:14:27,561 --> 00:14:30,161 Speaker 2: was around sundown. She said they were leaving in the 219 00:14:30,241 --> 00:14:33,321 Speaker 2: car with James in his blue and white Chevy. She 220 00:14:33,641 --> 00:14:38,801 Speaker 2: never saw Teresa, Cynthia, or crystal again. Sandra said that 221 00:14:38,801 --> 00:14:41,841 Speaker 2: that night, James stayed out all night. This was confirmed 222 00:14:41,881 --> 00:14:44,161 Speaker 2: by her mother, Joanne, who told him best gators the 223 00:14:44,201 --> 00:14:44,601 Speaker 2: same thing. 224 00:14:45,881 --> 00:14:46,401 Speaker 3: They said. 225 00:14:46,521 --> 00:14:49,481 Speaker 2: James didn't come back until around nine am the next morning, 226 00:14:50,001 --> 00:14:52,721 Speaker 2: and when he did, Sandra asked him what happened to 227 00:14:52,761 --> 00:14:55,481 Speaker 2: the girls. He said he drove the girls to the 228 00:14:55,481 --> 00:14:59,321 Speaker 2: Interstate Highway in Pottsville, gave them twenty dollars, and that 229 00:14:59,441 --> 00:14:59,761 Speaker 2: was it. 230 00:15:00,881 --> 00:15:02,161 Speaker 3: Joanne told police. 231 00:15:02,241 --> 00:15:05,001 Speaker 2: When James came back to the house, he was wearing 232 00:15:05,161 --> 00:15:07,961 Speaker 2: different clothes than he had on when he left. He 233 00:15:08,081 --> 00:15:11,121 Speaker 2: told her he'd had car trouble. He was covered in 234 00:15:11,201 --> 00:15:14,921 Speaker 2: grease and oil and wearing a long sleeved shirt. When 235 00:15:15,041 --> 00:15:17,561 Speaker 2: Joanne asked him about it, James said he got the 236 00:15:17,601 --> 00:15:20,841 Speaker 2: t shirt at Donna's house. He said he would contact 237 00:15:20,841 --> 00:15:22,841 Speaker 2: the girl's parents and let them know that he'd dropped 238 00:15:22,841 --> 00:15:25,801 Speaker 2: them off of the Pottsville exit, and apparently that was 239 00:15:25,801 --> 00:15:29,641 Speaker 2: the end of the topic. But Joanne said James would 240 00:15:29,801 --> 00:15:33,601 Speaker 2: sometimes wake up screaming in the dark after that, telling 241 00:15:33,681 --> 00:15:37,921 Speaker 2: her I see three shallow graves. She told police that 242 00:15:38,001 --> 00:15:39,761 Speaker 2: when he did that, she would tell him the only 243 00:15:39,801 --> 00:15:41,481 Speaker 2: way he could be seeing that is if he killed 244 00:15:41,481 --> 00:15:44,561 Speaker 2: those girls. She said she asked him point blank if 245 00:15:44,561 --> 00:15:48,841 Speaker 2: he killed them, and that he denied it. Joanne told 246 00:15:48,921 --> 00:15:53,521 Speaker 2: police James wasn't really violent with her, but others definitely 247 00:15:53,521 --> 00:15:56,881 Speaker 2: saw his dark side. Sandra told police she knew he 248 00:15:56,921 --> 00:16:00,041 Speaker 2: had an interest in young girls. She said on one occasion, 249 00:16:00,441 --> 00:16:03,281 Speaker 2: James tried to rape her. She said he was giving 250 00:16:03,281 --> 00:16:05,001 Speaker 2: her a ride somewhere, and then he pulled over to 251 00:16:05,041 --> 00:16:07,001 Speaker 2: the side of the road and pulled a gun out 252 00:16:07,041 --> 00:16:07,561 Speaker 2: of his boot. 253 00:16:08,441 --> 00:16:09,721 Speaker 3: But Sandra said she. 254 00:16:09,801 --> 00:16:12,681 Speaker 2: Was somehow able to wrestle that gun away from him 255 00:16:12,721 --> 00:16:14,601 Speaker 2: and actually turn the gun on him. 256 00:16:15,281 --> 00:16:16,321 Speaker 3: She said after that she. 257 00:16:16,401 --> 00:16:21,521 Speaker 2: Forced James to drive her home at gunpoint. Needless to say, 258 00:16:21,841 --> 00:16:25,241 Speaker 2: my heart completely goes out to in addition to the 259 00:16:25,281 --> 00:16:28,601 Speaker 2: three victims, to Sandra what she was experiencing at home 260 00:16:29,321 --> 00:16:31,921 Speaker 2: and how brave she was to pull a gun on 261 00:16:32,001 --> 00:16:36,681 Speaker 2: her own stepfather. It turned out that a lot of 262 00:16:36,721 --> 00:16:40,041 Speaker 2: people in and around Fairview Estates knew about the girl's 263 00:16:40,041 --> 00:16:42,881 Speaker 2: plans to run away and saw them with James on 264 00:16:42,881 --> 00:16:46,041 Speaker 2: the night of December second. An. Investigators stated in their 265 00:16:46,041 --> 00:16:50,241 Speaker 2: report there was also an attempt to mislead them. Apparently 266 00:16:50,281 --> 00:16:53,881 Speaker 2: a friend of James's, a trucker contacted the Russellville Police 267 00:16:53,881 --> 00:16:57,161 Speaker 2: Department and told them he had picked up three runaways 268 00:16:57,201 --> 00:17:00,841 Speaker 2: and they were at an address in Oklahoma. Investigators later 269 00:17:00,881 --> 00:17:04,281 Speaker 2: concluded that address was false and that the driver quote 270 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,921 Speaker 2: had probably made the calls at the request of James Grinder, 271 00:17:08,241 --> 00:17:11,321 Speaker 2: and that the information was totally false end quote. 272 00:17:11,961 --> 00:17:13,401 Speaker 3: So it's hard for me. 273 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:18,041 Speaker 2: To imagine why James Grinder wasn't immediately arrested, or at 274 00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:22,201 Speaker 2: least why he wasn't a major early suspect. It's possible 275 00:17:22,241 --> 00:17:25,001 Speaker 2: that at the time they disappeared, maybe some of the 276 00:17:25,041 --> 00:17:27,761 Speaker 2: young women who knew about the check cashing scams didn't 277 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 2: tell police what they knew because maybe they were worried 278 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: about getting in trouble themselves. But after Julianne's murder in 279 00:17:34,801 --> 00:17:40,041 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four, people started talking. Police had a ton 280 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:45,281 Speaker 2: of circumstantial evidence, but still no bodies. Then came the 281 00:17:45,281 --> 00:17:51,281 Speaker 2: gruesome discovery of Teresa, Cynthia and Crystal's bodies on Thanksgiving 282 00:17:51,361 --> 00:18:04,721 Speaker 2: Day in nineteen eighty six. After the deer hunting couple 283 00:18:04,801 --> 00:18:07,721 Speaker 2: found the skull, they went back the next day. They 284 00:18:07,801 --> 00:18:10,321 Speaker 2: picked the skull up and actually ended up taking it 285 00:18:10,361 --> 00:18:14,241 Speaker 2: to a local grocery store, where an employee contacted Pope 286 00:18:14,241 --> 00:18:17,921 Speaker 2: County authorities. Investigators went to the area where the skull 287 00:18:18,001 --> 00:18:22,641 Speaker 2: was found and kept searching. They found more remains. They 288 00:18:22,681 --> 00:18:26,241 Speaker 2: included a pelvic bone, a piece of a lower tailbone, 289 00:18:26,241 --> 00:18:30,041 Speaker 2: and some cloth. They also found a huge mass that 290 00:18:30,121 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: had more bones, clothing, and roots all tangled up in it. 291 00:18:34,201 --> 00:18:38,241 Speaker 2: They found one almost complete human skeleton wearing a decomposing 292 00:18:38,321 --> 00:18:42,201 Speaker 2: coat and underwear over a two hundred foot area. Once 293 00:18:42,241 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 2: they spread out, they found more and more bones. The 294 00:18:45,641 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 2: remains that they found included a lower jaw with thirty 295 00:18:48,401 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 2: five teeth, a partial skeleton in clothing including a piece 296 00:18:52,361 --> 00:18:55,681 Speaker 2: of black cloth, a black and green overcoat, a great 297 00:18:55,801 --> 00:19:00,761 Speaker 2: flavored chapstick, a pair of pants with white bleached spots, gloves, 298 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,761 Speaker 2: a pink comb, a blue sack, a wool scarf, backpacks, 299 00:19:04,761 --> 00:19:08,081 Speaker 2: an empty roll of tape, some bags of potato chips, 300 00:19:08,401 --> 00:19:12,521 Speaker 2: and two pairs of underwear and a handkerchief. I'm listing 301 00:19:12,601 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 2: all of these items because someone out there might recognize 302 00:19:16,681 --> 00:19:19,561 Speaker 2: some of them, and honestly, he got away with this 303 00:19:19,921 --> 00:19:22,321 Speaker 2: for many years, and I think it's very possible that 304 00:19:22,321 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 2: there could be more victims out there. Police believe those 305 00:19:26,441 --> 00:19:29,441 Speaker 2: bodies were buried in a shallow grave, but then over 306 00:19:29,481 --> 00:19:32,961 Speaker 2: the years removed, either due to animals dragging them or 307 00:19:33,201 --> 00:19:35,481 Speaker 2: a massive flood that had hit that area in nineteen 308 00:19:35,521 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: eighty two. Investigators also found a weapon. They found an 309 00:19:39,641 --> 00:19:42,641 Speaker 2: old number ten shotgun shell casing with nine buck shot 310 00:19:42,721 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 2: near the bodies, but police later stated they don't believe 311 00:19:46,281 --> 00:19:48,241 Speaker 2: that gun had any part in the murders. 312 00:19:48,681 --> 00:19:50,721 Speaker 3: The girls had been stabbed, not shot. 313 00:19:52,121 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 2: There were a lot of bones to go through. A 314 00:19:55,161 --> 00:19:59,361 Speaker 2: state medical examiner initially concluded the remains belonged to three 315 00:19:59,401 --> 00:20:02,841 Speaker 2: females in between the ages of twelve and fourteen. This 316 00:20:02,961 --> 00:20:06,641 Speaker 2: made police believe they had found the three bodies of Teresa, 317 00:20:06,961 --> 00:20:11,281 Speaker 2: Crystal and Cynthia, but later investigators announced there had been 318 00:20:11,281 --> 00:20:11,761 Speaker 2: a mistake. 319 00:20:12,241 --> 00:20:15,721 Speaker 3: There were only two bodies found, not three. 320 00:20:15,881 --> 00:20:19,281 Speaker 2: Police stated they had confirmed through dental records the two 321 00:20:19,361 --> 00:20:22,961 Speaker 2: sets of remains belonged to Teresa Williams and Crystal Parton, 322 00:20:23,481 --> 00:20:27,321 Speaker 2: and police confirmed the girls were not shot. Both of 323 00:20:27,321 --> 00:20:31,041 Speaker 2: them had been fatally stabbed in the neck, so they 324 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,801 Speaker 2: had found Teresa Williams and Crystal Parton, but there was 325 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: still no sign of Cynthia. Maybrey now police knew for 326 00:20:39,161 --> 00:20:43,681 Speaker 2: sure these three girls had not run away. Police suspect 327 00:20:43,801 --> 00:20:47,281 Speaker 2: did James Grinder A lot of people, though believed that 328 00:20:47,401 --> 00:20:50,321 Speaker 2: James Grinder did not act alone, that one or more 329 00:20:50,361 --> 00:20:54,081 Speaker 2: other people may have been involved. Another name that came 330 00:20:54,161 --> 00:20:57,521 Speaker 2: up in investigative reports was an acquaintance of James named 331 00:20:57,561 --> 00:21:00,721 Speaker 2: Tony Wilson. Tony was living in the woods behind the 332 00:21:00,721 --> 00:21:05,401 Speaker 2: Fairview Complex at the time of the girl's disappearances. Meanwhile, 333 00:21:05,441 --> 00:21:08,481 Speaker 2: the links between James Grinder and the three missing girls 334 00:21:08,801 --> 00:21:12,521 Speaker 2: were becoming more and more obvious. Police spoke to another 335 00:21:12,561 --> 00:21:16,121 Speaker 2: young woman, Carla Titterington. She was also around the same 336 00:21:16,161 --> 00:21:19,321 Speaker 2: age as the three victims. She told police she was 337 00:21:19,361 --> 00:21:21,641 Speaker 2: with the three girls at Joe Anne's house that night 338 00:21:22,121 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 2: and that another man, Tony Wilson, was also there, but 339 00:21:26,001 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 2: she said she wasn't sure if Tony left with James 340 00:21:29,121 --> 00:21:31,921 Speaker 2: and the girls. She just remembers him being there hanging 341 00:21:31,921 --> 00:21:36,201 Speaker 2: out at Joeanne's house. Police interviewed Tony Wilson in nineteen 342 00:21:36,241 --> 00:21:39,281 Speaker 2: eighty six as well. Tony said that at the time 343 00:21:39,321 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: of the disappearances, he had recently graduated from high school. 344 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: He said he was homeless and living in a sleeping 345 00:21:45,161 --> 00:21:48,761 Speaker 2: bag behind the Fairview Estates. He said that he believed 346 00:21:48,761 --> 00:21:51,681 Speaker 2: that in December of nineteen seventy six, he drove to 347 00:21:51,761 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 2: Montana before the holidays. He said he was with a 348 00:21:54,401 --> 00:21:57,481 Speaker 2: guy he knew who had family in Montana, but he 349 00:21:57,521 --> 00:22:00,681 Speaker 2: said he couldn't be sure of the dates. Tony said 350 00:22:00,761 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 2: he barely knew James Grinder, that he only knew of him. 351 00:22:04,441 --> 00:22:06,401 Speaker 2: He said he had never ridden in his car, but 352 00:22:06,921 --> 00:22:09,401 Speaker 2: he saw one of the three missing girls get into 353 00:22:09,441 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: the car with him. The name of that victim is 354 00:22:12,441 --> 00:22:17,041 Speaker 2: redacted in the case file report. Tony also said he 355 00:22:17,201 --> 00:22:20,201 Speaker 2: was not at James's house on the night the girls vanished. 356 00:22:20,961 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 2: This conflicted with other accounts by Carla and some others 357 00:22:23,921 --> 00:22:26,681 Speaker 2: who say Tony was around when the girls went missing. 358 00:22:27,801 --> 00:22:31,201 Speaker 2: In the end, though Tony Wilson was given a polygraph 359 00:22:31,521 --> 00:22:33,201 Speaker 2: where he was asked if he was in the car 360 00:22:33,241 --> 00:22:35,321 Speaker 2: and the night the girls disappeared, if he was there 361 00:22:35,321 --> 00:22:37,361 Speaker 2: when the girls were killed, and if he knew who 362 00:22:37,441 --> 00:22:40,521 Speaker 2: killed the girls. The results were that he was deceptive, 363 00:22:41,401 --> 00:22:44,521 Speaker 2: but in the end there was zero indication that Tony 364 00:22:44,641 --> 00:22:46,281 Speaker 2: was riding in the car with the girls on the 365 00:22:46,321 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 2: day they disappeared, or that he was involved in any way. 366 00:22:50,481 --> 00:22:54,201 Speaker 2: So in the end, the police had zero concrete evidence 367 00:22:54,241 --> 00:22:58,521 Speaker 2: against Tony Wilson and so that lead was dropped. Joe 368 00:22:58,601 --> 00:23:02,401 Speaker 2: Anne and James's son, Jimmy Grinder Junior, was also interviewed 369 00:23:02,401 --> 00:23:06,681 Speaker 2: by police on December seventeenth, nineteen eighty six. Jimmy was 370 00:23:06,721 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 2: only six years old when the girls disappeared, so he 371 00:23:10,321 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 2: was also in the home. Not surprisingly, he told police 372 00:23:14,481 --> 00:23:17,681 Speaker 2: he didn't remember anything from that night, but he did 373 00:23:17,721 --> 00:23:20,401 Speaker 2: say that over the years he talked to his mother, Joanne, 374 00:23:20,441 --> 00:23:23,441 Speaker 2: about the fact that all the girls went to Pottsville supposedly, 375 00:23:23,721 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 2: and the girls didn't come back. He said that he 376 00:23:27,241 --> 00:23:30,001 Speaker 2: and his mother both believed that James had killed the girls, 377 00:23:30,401 --> 00:23:34,281 Speaker 2: and he said he continued to believe that. Jimmy told 378 00:23:34,361 --> 00:23:37,761 Speaker 2: police quote, I'm afraid of him. You can't tell about him. 379 00:23:37,921 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 2: He's crazy end quote. Jimmy said that he believed his 380 00:23:42,521 --> 00:23:46,521 Speaker 2: dad would hurt him to silence him. Jimmy also told 381 00:23:46,601 --> 00:23:50,761 Speaker 2: another wild story about his grandmother. Apparently, Jimmy said James 382 00:23:50,801 --> 00:23:53,041 Speaker 2: was running the check scam and giving the proceeds of 383 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,881 Speaker 2: that scam to his mother, Jimmy's grandmother. On December second, 384 00:23:57,321 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: he said James's mother was also spooked by the possibility 385 00:24:00,641 --> 00:24:05,001 Speaker 2: of getting caught. Jimmy said she told James they needed 386 00:24:05,041 --> 00:24:08,881 Speaker 2: to stop the scam. Jimmy said he actually saw James 387 00:24:08,921 --> 00:24:11,801 Speaker 2: grab his own mother and try to throw her inside 388 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,001 Speaker 2: the trunk of his car. Police interviewed James's ex girlfriend, 389 00:24:16,041 --> 00:24:19,001 Speaker 2: Donna Harris, who he lived with off and on in 390 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,161 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six and who was his original alibi. According 391 00:24:24,201 --> 00:24:27,041 Speaker 2: to an interview in the case file, she told police 392 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,041 Speaker 2: that in nineteen seventy six, when the three girls were killed, 393 00:24:30,361 --> 00:24:33,321 Speaker 2: she was on and off with James, but that James 394 00:24:33,401 --> 00:24:37,161 Speaker 2: was also dating Joanne Hinton. It turned out that in 395 00:24:37,241 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, Donna had talked to investigators again. This time, 396 00:24:42,041 --> 00:24:44,521 Speaker 2: she admitted that she had lied about James being home 397 00:24:44,561 --> 00:24:48,241 Speaker 2: all night, but apparently either police didn't think this was 398 00:24:48,281 --> 00:24:52,361 Speaker 2: important or declined to further investigate this tip for other reasons. 399 00:24:53,681 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 2: Donna confirmed this information in nineteen eighty six. She said 400 00:24:57,601 --> 00:25:01,121 Speaker 2: that on December second or third, James came home very 401 00:25:01,201 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 2: late and said that if police asked, he wanted Donna 402 00:25:04,921 --> 00:25:07,041 Speaker 2: to say that she was with him in the car 403 00:25:07,121 --> 00:25:09,561 Speaker 2: with the three girls that they drove them to the 404 00:25:09,561 --> 00:25:14,001 Speaker 2: Potsville exit and dropped them there. James also told Donna 405 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,361 Speaker 2: he would give her two hundred dollars if she lied. 406 00:25:17,361 --> 00:25:20,241 Speaker 2: Donna stated that in the end, when she talked to 407 00:25:20,281 --> 00:25:24,921 Speaker 2: the sheriff, she told investigators the truth. There's no record 408 00:25:24,961 --> 00:25:27,401 Speaker 2: in the case file of investigators speaking to Donna in 409 00:25:27,481 --> 00:25:31,201 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six, but they did ask her in nineteen 410 00:25:31,241 --> 00:25:34,681 Speaker 2: eighty six what was going through Donna's mind after James 411 00:25:34,721 --> 00:25:37,481 Speaker 2: told her he wanted her to lie to police. They 412 00:25:37,521 --> 00:25:42,441 Speaker 2: asked her, didn't she wonder why? Donna said James told 413 00:25:42,481 --> 00:25:44,561 Speaker 2: her he didn't want it admit that he had been 414 00:25:44,561 --> 00:25:47,681 Speaker 2: with the three girls because they were miners and because 415 00:25:47,721 --> 00:25:49,761 Speaker 2: he claimed they had stolen a bunch of checks and 416 00:25:49,801 --> 00:25:52,721 Speaker 2: crossed the state line. He told Donna he didn't want 417 00:25:52,721 --> 00:25:56,161 Speaker 2: any part of that. He mentioned that the three girls 418 00:25:56,201 --> 00:26:00,281 Speaker 2: lived at Fairview. Donna said she was afraid of James. 419 00:26:00,281 --> 00:26:02,241 Speaker 2: She said he had been abusive to her in the past, 420 00:26:02,321 --> 00:26:05,161 Speaker 2: that he had beat her, and on one occasion, she said, 421 00:26:05,201 --> 00:26:07,321 Speaker 2: he pulled a knife on her when she refused to 422 00:26:07,321 --> 00:26:10,321 Speaker 2: have sex with him. She said he cut her underwear 423 00:26:10,321 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: off with the butcher knife and put the knife to 424 00:26:12,641 --> 00:26:16,681 Speaker 2: her throat. Then Donna said James continued to curse at 425 00:26:16,761 --> 00:26:19,841 Speaker 2: her while he had sex with her. He pulled out 426 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 2: a gun and pointed it at her head while they 427 00:26:22,201 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 2: had sex. She told police, quote, if I didn't do 428 00:26:26,121 --> 00:26:28,321 Speaker 2: what he wanted that night, he would have killed me, 429 00:26:28,641 --> 00:26:33,561 Speaker 2: and I know he would have end quote. She admitted 430 00:26:33,601 --> 00:26:36,521 Speaker 2: to police she was terrified of James. She said she 431 00:26:36,601 --> 00:26:39,281 Speaker 2: believed he was capable of coming back and hurting her 432 00:26:39,921 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 2: or hurting her children. 433 00:26:42,321 --> 00:26:43,601 Speaker 3: But even with all of. 434 00:26:43,521 --> 00:26:46,961 Speaker 2: This new information, and even after the bodies were found, 435 00:26:47,601 --> 00:26:51,121 Speaker 2: police somehow still did not feel like they had enough 436 00:26:51,161 --> 00:27:03,441 Speaker 2: evidence to arrest James Grinder, so once again he was free. 437 00:27:05,481 --> 00:27:11,041 Speaker 2: James wasn't immediately charged with Julianne's murder either. Over the years, 438 00:27:11,401 --> 00:27:14,561 Speaker 2: there was some movement on the case. In nineteen ninety three, 439 00:27:15,041 --> 00:27:18,761 Speaker 2: police got blood samples from James and another suspect named 440 00:27:18,801 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 2: Wilfrid Swank, a former Macon City policeman who they suspected, 441 00:27:23,521 --> 00:27:26,321 Speaker 2: but in the end charges were dropped against both men 442 00:27:26,561 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 2: when police said they didn't have enough evidence, and it 443 00:27:29,881 --> 00:27:34,361 Speaker 2: was later announced that wilfrid Swank, the former policeman, had 444 00:27:34,401 --> 00:27:39,281 Speaker 2: been cleared through DNA evidence, So once again the case 445 00:27:39,321 --> 00:27:44,441 Speaker 2: went cold until March of nineteen ninety eight, James Grinder 446 00:27:44,481 --> 00:27:47,601 Speaker 2: made news again when he, along with two other accomplices, 447 00:27:48,041 --> 00:27:52,521 Speaker 2: were arrested for burglary. This was eighteen years after the 448 00:27:52,521 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 2: three girls disappeared and twelve years after Julianne was raped 449 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:02,161 Speaker 2: and murdered. James spoke to police again. He was already 450 00:28:02,201 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 2: going to prison for the burglary, and in the end, 451 00:28:04,801 --> 00:28:08,561 Speaker 2: when confronted with evidence, he confessed to Julian's murder, but 452 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,121 Speaker 2: the details he gave at times didn't make sense. James 453 00:28:12,161 --> 00:28:16,481 Speaker 2: changed his story several times and later recanted completely. Law 454 00:28:16,521 --> 00:28:19,921 Speaker 2: enforcement absolutely believed they had the right person, but they 455 00:28:19,961 --> 00:28:22,441 Speaker 2: weren't convinced they had a slam duncan trial, and so 456 00:28:23,041 --> 00:28:26,401 Speaker 2: in June of nineteen ninety nine, Sheriff Robert Dawson took 457 00:28:26,401 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 2: a very unusual step by contacting doctor Lawrence Farwell, a 458 00:28:30,921 --> 00:28:34,801 Speaker 2: neuropsychiatrist and the inventor of a technique called brain fingerprinting. 459 00:28:35,321 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 3: It's a very controversial method. 460 00:28:37,961 --> 00:28:40,121 Speaker 2: The technology works a little bit like a lot of 461 00:28:40,121 --> 00:28:42,841 Speaker 2: detector test, but it involves hooking a suspect up to 462 00:28:42,881 --> 00:28:46,001 Speaker 2: an EKG and looking inside their brain while they are 463 00:28:46,041 --> 00:28:50,281 Speaker 2: asked questions about the crime, questions that supposedly only the 464 00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:54,681 Speaker 2: killer wouldn't know the answers to Lawrence Farewell had claimed 465 00:28:54,721 --> 00:28:57,361 Speaker 2: that the accuracy rate for these tests was one hundred 466 00:28:57,441 --> 00:29:01,481 Speaker 2: percent and that he got no false positives. Again, much 467 00:29:01,641 --> 00:29:06,161 Speaker 2: like polygraph tests, this technique is controversial. The company Brainwave 468 00:29:06,281 --> 00:29:08,921 Speaker 2: Sciences was around in the media a lot in the 469 00:29:08,961 --> 00:29:12,121 Speaker 2: early two thousands. They ended up selling their technology to 470 00:29:12,161 --> 00:29:16,441 Speaker 2: Singapore's police force. The Florida State Police has also reportedly 471 00:29:16,521 --> 00:29:20,241 Speaker 2: used the technology, but according to report on the Verge 472 00:29:20,281 --> 00:29:23,841 Speaker 2: that did a very deep dive into brain fingerprinting, it's 473 00:29:23,961 --> 00:29:26,361 Speaker 2: really kind of impossible to verify a lot of these 474 00:29:26,361 --> 00:29:30,561 Speaker 2: statistics because the testing is conducted by pretty much one person, 475 00:29:31,041 --> 00:29:35,801 Speaker 2: Lawrence Farewell. There hasn't been any large scale peer review 476 00:29:35,841 --> 00:29:40,361 Speaker 2: to my knowledge. Brain fingerprinting, by the way, is still used. 477 00:29:40,801 --> 00:29:44,281 Speaker 2: It's not really a big thing in criminal cases. It's 478 00:29:44,441 --> 00:29:49,121 Speaker 2: used more for diagnosing mental health issues. In James's case, though, 479 00:29:49,161 --> 00:29:54,201 Speaker 2: he voluntarily submitted to this test, So Lawrence attached electrodes 480 00:29:54,241 --> 00:29:56,601 Speaker 2: to James's head and had him sit in front of 481 00:29:56,641 --> 00:30:00,161 Speaker 2: a computer screen while he asked him questions about the murder. 482 00:30:00,401 --> 00:30:04,801 Speaker 2: He took detailed EEG readings of brain activity asking specific 483 00:30:04,841 --> 00:30:10,401 Speaker 2: details about Julianne's rape and murder, and according to Lawrence Farewell, 484 00:30:10,601 --> 00:30:15,161 Speaker 2: James failed. Lawrence later told a local newspaper quote, there 485 00:30:15,241 --> 00:30:19,361 Speaker 2: is no question that JB. Grinder raped and murdered Julianne Helton. 486 00:30:19,761 --> 00:30:22,481 Speaker 2: The significant details of the crime are stored in his 487 00:30:22,561 --> 00:30:28,081 Speaker 2: brain end quote. With that confirmed, police believe they did 488 00:30:28,121 --> 00:30:30,921 Speaker 2: have enough evidence to make their case against James Grinder 489 00:30:30,961 --> 00:30:35,641 Speaker 2: for Julian's murder. James Grinder was convicted of Julianne Helton's 490 00:30:35,721 --> 00:30:38,801 Speaker 2: murder in nineteen ninety nine and sentenced to life in prison. 491 00:30:39,961 --> 00:30:43,201 Speaker 2: Questions remained about whether there could have been other people 492 00:30:43,201 --> 00:30:46,601 Speaker 2: involved in Julian's murder. In addition to the former policeman, 493 00:30:47,121 --> 00:30:50,721 Speaker 2: James had also named two brothers who he claimed were involved, 494 00:30:51,361 --> 00:30:55,121 Speaker 2: but police eventually dismissed charges on all three of those 495 00:30:55,161 --> 00:30:59,681 Speaker 2: other men due to lack of evidence. So James was 496 00:30:59,721 --> 00:31:03,361 Speaker 2: behind bars in Missouri, convicted of murder. Now, the police 497 00:31:03,401 --> 00:31:06,281 Speaker 2: in Arkansas wanted to talk to him again about the 498 00:31:06,401 --> 00:31:10,441 Speaker 2: night in nineteen seventy six when Teresa, Crystal and Cynthia 499 00:31:10,481 --> 00:31:14,561 Speaker 2: went missing. James was sent to Arkansas to face justice 500 00:31:14,641 --> 00:31:17,561 Speaker 2: in Pope County. At first, he tried to talk his 501 00:31:17,641 --> 00:31:20,481 Speaker 2: way out of it. He told police the same thing 502 00:31:20,601 --> 00:31:23,161 Speaker 2: he had told Donna, that he gave the three girls 503 00:31:23,161 --> 00:31:25,961 Speaker 2: a ride from Russellville to Pottsville, Arkansas, on. 504 00:31:25,881 --> 00:31:26,801 Speaker 3: The day they went missing. 505 00:31:27,441 --> 00:31:30,081 Speaker 2: Then he gave them twenty dollars and left them at 506 00:31:30,121 --> 00:31:34,881 Speaker 2: the Interstate Police didn't buy his story, but they agreed 507 00:31:34,921 --> 00:31:37,321 Speaker 2: to cut a deal with him to take the death 508 00:31:37,361 --> 00:31:41,241 Speaker 2: penalty off the table if he confessed. He was already 509 00:31:41,241 --> 00:31:44,601 Speaker 2: in for life without the possibility of parole, so he agreed. 510 00:31:45,321 --> 00:31:49,121 Speaker 2: James said the first part of the story about driving Teresa, Cynthia, 511 00:31:49,161 --> 00:31:51,401 Speaker 2: and Crystal to a liquor store in buying them alcohol 512 00:31:51,601 --> 00:31:54,721 Speaker 2: was true. He said after they got into his car 513 00:31:54,801 --> 00:31:56,641 Speaker 2: that he took a drive to buy the alcohol and 514 00:31:56,681 --> 00:31:59,401 Speaker 2: went along with their story of running away, telling them 515 00:31:59,481 --> 00:32:02,921 Speaker 2: that he was going to help them. Instead, he drove 516 00:32:02,961 --> 00:32:07,241 Speaker 2: them to Brock Cemetery, where he raped Crystal and Teresa. 517 00:32:07,841 --> 00:32:11,401 Speaker 2: After the rape, he claimed that he strangled Crystal and 518 00:32:11,481 --> 00:32:15,681 Speaker 2: Teresa and then stabbed them in the neck before hiding 519 00:32:15,721 --> 00:32:19,241 Speaker 2: their bodies under some brush off a nearby dead end road. 520 00:32:20,121 --> 00:32:22,961 Speaker 2: He claimed that at this point Cynthia was still alive. 521 00:32:23,361 --> 00:32:25,721 Speaker 2: So he took her into the Ozark National Forest and 522 00:32:25,841 --> 00:32:28,961 Speaker 2: raped her. Then tried to beat her to death with 523 00:32:29,041 --> 00:32:33,601 Speaker 2: a soda bottle, but Cynthia was still alive, so instead 524 00:32:33,921 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: he beat her to death with a tire iron. He 525 00:32:37,041 --> 00:32:40,281 Speaker 2: admitted that he dug a shallow grave and covered Crystal 526 00:32:40,321 --> 00:32:43,321 Speaker 2: in Teresa's bodies with brush off of a dead end road, 527 00:32:44,361 --> 00:32:46,401 Speaker 2: but he said that he left Cynthia out in the 528 00:32:46,401 --> 00:32:49,001 Speaker 2: open in the forest. He said he did not attempt 529 00:32:49,041 --> 00:32:51,521 Speaker 2: to bury her body, it was just left out in 530 00:32:51,561 --> 00:32:57,401 Speaker 2: the open. In October of nineteen ninety eight, investigators stated 531 00:32:57,481 --> 00:33:02,401 Speaker 2: they knew who killed Cynthia, Teresa and Crystal James B. Grinder, 532 00:33:02,881 --> 00:33:05,321 Speaker 2: and that he was already in prison serving a life 533 00:33:05,361 --> 00:33:06,961 Speaker 2: sentence for Julie Helton's murder. 534 00:33:07,761 --> 00:33:09,641 Speaker 3: James was charged with capital. 535 00:33:09,361 --> 00:33:13,081 Speaker 2: Murder, only one counts, since in Arkansas at the time, 536 00:33:13,561 --> 00:33:16,961 Speaker 2: capital murder was described as a premeditated homicide of two 537 00:33:17,121 --> 00:33:20,761 Speaker 2: or more people. James was convicted and sentenced to life 538 00:33:20,801 --> 00:33:24,321 Speaker 2: in prison. He later requested that his sentence be reduced. 539 00:33:24,801 --> 00:33:28,361 Speaker 2: He claimed that police forced his confession. He also claimed 540 00:33:28,361 --> 00:33:30,561 Speaker 2: he didn't work alone, that there were others involved in 541 00:33:30,641 --> 00:33:33,321 Speaker 2: killing the three girls, but all of his petitions for 542 00:33:33,361 --> 00:33:38,641 Speaker 2: clemency were denied. No one believed him. I've read a 543 00:33:38,681 --> 00:33:41,281 Speaker 2: lot of comments saying it would have been impossible for 544 00:33:41,361 --> 00:33:45,041 Speaker 2: James to kill three young women alone, But I'm not convinced, 545 00:33:45,721 --> 00:33:49,161 Speaker 2: because James Grinder had developed trust with these girls, he 546 00:33:49,361 --> 00:33:53,001 Speaker 2: drove them around a lot, there was almost certainly alcohol involved, 547 00:33:53,321 --> 00:33:56,841 Speaker 2: and it's certainly plausible that he alone could have overpowered 548 00:33:56,961 --> 00:34:00,881 Speaker 2: three young girls, especially given their ages and his claim. 549 00:34:00,601 --> 00:34:01,841 Speaker 3: That he separated them. 550 00:34:02,121 --> 00:34:04,441 Speaker 2: At around six foot one and one hundred and eighty 551 00:34:04,441 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 2: five pounds with a weapon, he had a significant physical advantage. 552 00:34:10,401 --> 00:34:13,241 Speaker 2: James Grinder was sentenced to life in prison without the 553 00:34:13,281 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 2: possibility of parole. In twenty ten, James passed away in 554 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,241 Speaker 2: prison of what was described as natural causes. He was 555 00:34:21,281 --> 00:34:26,121 Speaker 2: sixty five years old. Cynthia Maybury's body has never been found. 556 00:34:26,601 --> 00:34:30,361 Speaker 2: Her mother, Clara, passed away in twenty fourteen without ever 557 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,801 Speaker 2: being able to lay her daughter to rest. The Russellville 558 00:34:34,921 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: Police Department is still handling the case of Cynthia Maybury's 559 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,241 Speaker 2: unrecovered remains. They have asked that anyone with any information 560 00:34:43,281 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 2: about Anthea's remains please contact them on four seven, nine, nine, 561 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,361 Speaker 2: six eight three two three two. I'm Catherine Townsend. This 562 00:34:52,561 --> 00:34:55,881 Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line is 563 00:34:55,881 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 2: a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's 564 00:34:59,001 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 2: written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced by 565 00:35:02,041 --> 00:35:05,601 Speaker 2: Etaily's Perez Special thanks to Amy Tubbs for her research 566 00:35:05,641 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 2: assistance and James Wheaton for legal review. Noah camer mixed 567 00:35:09,481 --> 00:35:12,681 Speaker 2: and scored this episode. Our theme song is by Ben Sale. 568 00:35:13,161 --> 00:35:16,601 Speaker 2: Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and l. C. 569 00:35:16,761 --> 00:35:17,201 Speaker 3: Crowley. 570 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,401 Speaker 2: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the 571 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,401 Speaker 2: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple Podcasts. If you 572 00:35:24,481 --> 00:35:27,241 Speaker 2: are interested in seeing documents and materials from the case, 573 00:35:27,721 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 2: you can follow the show on Instagram at Helen Gone Pod. 574 00:35:31,561 --> 00:35:33,361 Speaker 2: If you have a case she'd like me and my 575 00:35:33,401 --> 00:35:35,881 Speaker 2: team to look into, you can reach out to us 576 00:35:35,921 --> 00:35:38,361 Speaker 2: at our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight 577 00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: seven four four six one four five. That's six seven 578 00:35:42,601 --> 00:35:45,761 Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five. 579 00:35:52,401 --> 00:35:53,281 Speaker 1: School of Humans