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Speaker 1: A warning. This episode contains depictions of violence and conversations

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Speaker 1: about suicide that may be disturbing and triggering for some listeners.

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Speaker 1: If you are struggling with suicidal thoughts, please fast forward

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Speaker 1: to the end of this episode to find out where

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Speaker 1: help is available. Two couples meet up the night of

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Speaker 1: October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven. The next morning, eighteen

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Speaker 1: year old Anastasia Whitbolsfugen is found murdered. Two days later,

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend, twenty year old Justin Bruton, is found dead,

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Speaker 1: having taken his own life. The investigation into what happened

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Speaker 1: to these two young people is now entering its third week.

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Speaker 2: Well, have you talked to anybody that might be had

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Speaker 2: some credible information.

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Speaker 1: And it's taking detectives down some unexpected roads.

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Speaker 3: It's all I feel is that the same we'll give

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Speaker 3: it a name, We'll call it a demon. Same demon

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Speaker 3: killed on a stage that killed Justine. The same energy

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Speaker 3: was present. That's what I feel, and that's not what

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Speaker 3: you want.

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Speaker 4: I know.

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Speaker 1: Well, the investigation gained some traction or will someone threaten

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Speaker 1: to derail it? I'm Leah Rothman. This is the real Killer.

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Speaker 1: Episode three? How do you sleep at night. On November seventh,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, two weeks after Anastasia was killed, Lee

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Speaker 1: Detective Sergeant Gary Kilgore gets a call from eighteen year

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Speaker 1: old Byron Case. He's one half of the other couple

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Speaker 1: who had been out with Anastasia and Justin the night

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Speaker 1: of October twenty. Second Sergeant Kilgore writes in a report

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Speaker 1: that Byron says he's calling on behalf of himself and

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Speaker 1: some other friends who are concerned and wondering if anything

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Speaker 1: new has been uncovered about Anastasia's death. Kil Gore says

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Speaker 1: not really, then takes the opportunity to ask Byron if

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Speaker 1: he's heard anything about the murder. Byron says he heard

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Speaker 1: Anastasia was shot twice in the head with a handgun,

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Speaker 1: and he's heard rumors there was a suicide pact between him,

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend Kelly Moffatt, Justin, and Anastasia, but he says

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Speaker 1: that isn't true, and Byron says he doesn't believe Justin

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Speaker 1: killed Anastasia. Kil Gore asks if either he or Kelly

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Speaker 1: were present when Anastasia was killed. Byron says no, neither

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Speaker 1: of them were present. About a week later, Anastasia's stepmom,

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Speaker 1: Diane Marshall calls Sergeant Kilgore. It was Diane who dropped

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Speaker 1: Anastasia off that night at Mount Washington Cemetery to meet

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Speaker 1: up with Justin and friends. Diane shares with Sergeant Kilgore

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Speaker 1: one theory she has about what might have happened that night.

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Speaker 1: You will hear a few beeps during their recorded call and.

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Speaker 5: After a few after a short while of living with

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Speaker 5: Antasia this summer, I think Justin discovered a big gap

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Speaker 5: between the reality and the fantasy of their relationship.

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Speaker 4: What that leads me to is that.

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Speaker 5: He got more into drops. I just have to make

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Speaker 5: that assumption, and it's further away from reality. And I

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Speaker 5: think somehow he must have patched an idea. I'm just

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Speaker 5: telling you my speculations, but he must attached an idea

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Speaker 5: of himself an Anastasia in an ideal act life. So

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Speaker 5: there's this fantasy idea.

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Speaker 1: Diane wonders, what if Justin might have lured Anastasia out

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Speaker 1: with the idea that if they both committed suicide, they

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Speaker 1: could be together eternally.

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Speaker 5: There's a reference in one of her letters him about

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Speaker 5: how he's mentioned her away where.

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Speaker 6: They can meet together forever.

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Speaker 5: And I think she is that pie compared. I think

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Speaker 5: he was at far off base that he right now.

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Speaker 1: Of course you know there's But what Diane says she

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Speaker 1: doesn't understand is how or why Anastasia ended up in

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Speaker 1: Lincoln Cemetery, the cemetery where she was eventually found dead,

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Speaker 1: not Mount Washington Cemetery where Diane dropped her off.

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Speaker 5: Not a walk, not a hiker. He was not a

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Speaker 5: person that one with nature she was, she would not have.

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Speaker 5: I mean there's no street line since there anything. She

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Speaker 5: was not the kind of person.

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Speaker 7: Would boldly go into.

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Speaker 5: Natural wooded surrounding.

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Speaker 1: Sergeant Kilgore asks Diane what Anastasia was wearing when she

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Speaker 1: dropped her off at Mount Washington Cemetery. Diane says she

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Speaker 1: remembers she was wearing a tan corduroy jacket and assumes

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Speaker 1: she was dressed as she usually was, meaning black jeans,

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Speaker 1: But Diane says she can't remember that specifically, so it

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Speaker 1: seems no new or concrete information is learned from Diane.

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Speaker 1: When the files from Justin and Anastasia's computer's hard drives

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Speaker 1: are in, Kilgore notes in a report, the only one

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Speaker 1: that appeared to be of any value. On Justin's drive

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Speaker 1: is an unnamed document, possibly written by Anastasia. Data says

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Speaker 1: it was created on October twentieth and last saved on

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Speaker 1: the twenty first. Those are the two days leading up

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Speaker 1: to the night in question. The document is one long paragraph,

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Speaker 1: which in part says quote, I may annoy you, you

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Speaker 1: annoy me. It's a match made in hell. I want

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Speaker 1: you to love me. I want you to feel pain

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Speaker 1: if I ever leave you. It goes on to say,

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Speaker 1: I don't care what Byron thinks of me. I never

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Speaker 1: cared what anyone thought of me until I loved you.

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Speaker 1: Then I only cared what you thought of me. Byron

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Speaker 1: can go fuck himself for all I care. I wish

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Speaker 1: I could kill myself. I wanted to do it before,

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Speaker 1: but I couldn't because I firmly believed that you would

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Speaker 1: come back to me. The only person's opinion I care

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Speaker 1: about is yours. So fuck me. You and Byron deserve

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Speaker 1: each other because that seems to be the one you want,

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Speaker 1: someone who shares your brain and your thinking, and so

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Speaker 1: fuck me. So that's the only noteworthy thing found on

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Speaker 1: Justin's computer. On Anastasia's there's a bit more like some emails.

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Speaker 1: There's one email she wrote to a friend dated April

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Speaker 1: twenty sixth, nineteen ninety seven, where she talks about how

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Speaker 1: Justin wouldn't take her to prom so Byron was going

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Speaker 1: to take her. In another email, dated May tenth, she

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Speaker 1: wrote that some guy was talking all sorts of crap

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Speaker 1: about Byron and she felt like beating him senseless. She

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Speaker 1: told the guy to shut the fuck up and that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't even really know Byron, so he shouldn't be talking,

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Speaker 1: especially when the person he's talking about is one of

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Speaker 1: her best friends. On October eighteenth, four days before the

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Speaker 1: night she was murdered, Anastasia wrote an email that says,

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Speaker 1: a quote from Gabrielle Garcia Marquez, the only regret I

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Speaker 1: will have in dying is if it's not for love,

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Speaker 1: would you die for love? On November fourteenth, Sergeant Kilgore

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Speaker 1: and Anastasia's dad, Bob Whitplesfugen, speak over the phone. Bob

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Speaker 1: says he wants to share something he remembered. Anastesia told

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Speaker 1: him their conversation is recording.

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Speaker 8: Okay, now, I recall a conversation with my daughter about

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Speaker 8: just having a gun, purchasing it for three hundred and

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Speaker 8: fifty dollars and only got one hundred and twenty five

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Speaker 8: dollars for when he sold it, and she said that

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Speaker 8: Byron took care of the sale. Only she didn't believe

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Speaker 8: Byron actually sold it. She thinks Byron kept it.

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Speaker 4: Why would she take that or did you ask?

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Speaker 9: I didn't ask.

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Speaker 8: I was more concerned about whether there was still a

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Speaker 8: gun in their position.

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Speaker 7: She mentioned that.

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Speaker 8: That just look angry at Byron for only getting a

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Speaker 8: hundred twenty five dollars for it, and she felt that

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Speaker 8: Byron's base is not honest, samful about having even sold

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Speaker 8: a gun because he only came up with one hundred

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Speaker 8: and twenty five dollars for MY quick query to her

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Speaker 8: was come he thinks he only got one hundred and

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Speaker 8: twenty five for it? She answered once that she didn't

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Speaker 8: think Byron actually sold as she saw that Byron just

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Speaker 8: gave Justin one hundred and twenty five dollars to keep quiet.

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Speaker 1: But I am did Byron secretly keep Justin's gun and

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Speaker 1: not tell anyone about it? So far it's just conjecture,

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Speaker 1: but investigators are able to get the ATF transaction record

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Speaker 1: for the gun. It seems Justin purchased it on September

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Speaker 1: twenty seventh, less than a month before Anastasia's murder. The

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Speaker 1: gun was a Remington twelve gage shotgun model eight seventy

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Speaker 1: and he bought it at a Walmart in Kansas City.

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Speaker 1: It's the same make and model as the one he

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Speaker 1: bought the morning of October twenty third. That gun was

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Speaker 1: found lying next to him. But investigators don't know what

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Speaker 1: happened to the gun justin bod in September. There doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to be any record of him selling it back

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Speaker 1: to Bob and Sergeant Kilgore's phone call but h.

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Speaker 8: And then my wife remarked this morning that.

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Speaker 10: You may be having some difficulty getting a hold of Byron.

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Speaker 10: So I haven't had any problems getting back with him

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Speaker 10: on that kit. Did you locate Patrick Rock's phone number here?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, and I can recall it right now.

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Speaker 4: It's three two one to.

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Speaker 1: Patrick Rock. That's a name you haven't heard so far.

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Speaker 1: He's a close friend of the Whipple's Fugen family. As

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Speaker 1: a way to honor Anastasia, Patrick starts a memorial website.

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Speaker 1: Included on the website are photos of Anastasia, who was

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Speaker 1: really beautiful. She had reddish brown hair and hazel eyes.

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Speaker 1: There's also some of her poetry and artwork. There's mention

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Speaker 1: of the music she was into, like the Beatles, the

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Speaker 1: Cure and Soussi and the Banshees, and her interests like

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Speaker 1: Star Trek conventions, public radio fundraisers, causes like free speech

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Speaker 1: on the web, and organizations like Amnesty International. The website

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Speaker 1: is updated often adding tributes to Anastasia, links to media coverage,

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Speaker 1: the announcement of a ten thousand dollars reward, which will

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Speaker 1: eventually be increased to fifteen thousand dollars, and criticism of

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Speaker 1: the Jackson County Sheriff's departments handling of the investigation. The

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Speaker 1: large file I received from the Sheriff's Department includes dozens

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Speaker 1: of printed pages from this website. They must have printed

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Speaker 1: them every time it was updated. Reading about Anastasia and

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Speaker 1: what she was into makes me really sad. We liked

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Speaker 1: some of the same music and were interested in some

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Speaker 1: of the same causes. Although I never got the chance

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Speaker 1: to know her, There's something about Anastasia I identify with

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Speaker 1: that feels familiar. Her young young life was cut short,

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Speaker 1: so brutally and so unnecessarily, But me describing Anastasia based

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Speaker 1: off her emails and a website can't compare to hearing

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Speaker 1: about who she really was from her own family. Here

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Speaker 1: is her father, Bob. His audios not great.

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Speaker 11: The activities she was building, individual and thoughtful. She had

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Speaker 11: triends to attending the University of Sitting in the Surrey back.

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Speaker 11: She had the role there during the summer of ninety seven.

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Speaker 11: Many times I start heading and she only laughter. And

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Speaker 11: she was also sullen and salty and needing individuals to

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Speaker 11: confuy them. She did explore different activities she had justin

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Speaker 11: to do that with and you have to ask a

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Speaker 11: sister fan for more specific instant. I was just a dad.

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Speaker 1: I reached out to Anastasia's sisters, Francesca who goes by

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Speaker 1: Friend and Emma to see if they would be willing

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Speaker 1: to share some of their memories of Anastasia with me. Reluctantly,

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Speaker 1: yet graciously, they agreed. Sadly, Friend was fifteen when Anastasia

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Speaker 1: was killed. Emma was only four. I first asked them

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Speaker 1: to tell me a little bit about Anastasia. Friend begins,

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Speaker 1: then Emma jumps in.

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Speaker 12: She was super intelligent, so I think she could carry

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Speaker 12: a conversation with anybody. She could be really funny. I

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Speaker 12: guess maybe in a Marsery broad Way. Yeah, I can

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Speaker 12: imagine that she carried herself, you know, publicly, like in

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Speaker 12: a way that she.

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Speaker 13: Might have been a drama queen.

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Speaker 1: Was that passed down from your mom, from your dad

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Speaker 1: or was it just being a teenager?

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Speaker 13: It was just who she was at that point, Probably

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Speaker 13: just being a teenager.

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Speaker 8: I don't know.

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Speaker 14: There was We could get into our parents and just

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Speaker 14: you know, emotional ball little stuff, but I don't like

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Speaker 14: to think that it was that.

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Speaker 12: I think, you know, she was just similar to our

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Speaker 12: dad though, like stubborn. I think that short temper to

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Speaker 12: a degree. Yeah, oh yeah, that's where I get it from.

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Speaker 13: You're you're unique. Don't worry about.

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Speaker 1: What kind of stuff was Annestatian two.

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Speaker 14: I think she was like interest stood in Amnesty International

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Speaker 14: and human rights and didn't rights. She studied Latin in

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Speaker 14: school and wrote poetry, and she was the best Vietnam.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, she did drama club, drama class, and she wanted

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Speaker 12: to travel the world.

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Speaker 14: So I wanted to go to Italy and stuff, and yeah,

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Speaker 14: I liked the cure and other golf stuff. Some Green

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Speaker 14: Day some Sussi and the ban Cheese.

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Speaker 7: I don't know.

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Speaker 13: Can you think of others like Pearlin, Nirvana, a lot

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Speaker 13: of nineties alternative music.

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Speaker 14: She liked Pinky and the Brain. And did she like

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Speaker 14: Wallace and Gromit. Huh yeah, okay, so I watched that

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Speaker 14: sort of stuff. Yeah, growing up too, we had the

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Speaker 14: v VHS's.

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Speaker 1: And what movie were you into for a while.

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Speaker 14: Oh, Anastasia, I was. I couldn't really tell you exactly why,

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Speaker 14: but probably some part of me wanted to imagine my

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Speaker 14: sister because I mean, she wasn't there anymore by the

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Speaker 14: time that I started really having memories, and so I'd

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Speaker 14: like to imagine her as a princess or whatever, you know,

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Speaker 14: a fantastical tale. And that movie was intensely popular around

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Speaker 14: that time, but it had her name.

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Speaker 1: Was she like a typical oldest sister or was she

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Speaker 1: like protective of the other girls? Just sort of describe

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Speaker 1: an stage in terms of her being a sister.

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Speaker 12: She's definitely the big sister. I wouldn't say she was

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Speaker 12: overly protective of us. She is pretty independent when it

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Speaker 12: came to herself. I guess living with her in my

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Speaker 12: dad's house and going to Lincoln together for high schochool.

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Speaker 13: She was pretty protective of me.

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Speaker 12: She would welcome me at some degree to hang out

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Speaker 12: with her and a few of her friends, and then

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Speaker 12: other points like definitely when it came to Byron, she

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Speaker 12: kept me at an arm's length, like she didn't. She

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Speaker 12: was very protective of me, I think in terms of

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Speaker 12: she knew that he wasn't someone she wanted around her

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Speaker 12: little sister, So I definitely see that as her being protective.

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Speaker 13: In a way.

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Speaker 12: She was definitely vocal to me about Kelly and Byron's

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Speaker 12: age difference.

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Speaker 13: Whether she didn't like Kelly, she did not like that

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Speaker 13: relationship at all.

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Speaker 12: She did not like them basically moving into Justin's place

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Speaker 12: is what the way she made it sound to me,

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Speaker 12: like they were always there.

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Speaker 13: She probably had her reasons for, you know, keeping me.

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Speaker 13: I didn't.

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Speaker 5: I don't.

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Speaker 12: I met Byron only a couple times, like in real life,

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Speaker 12: and she was friends with him since middle school. So

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Speaker 12: I remember hearing, you know, their phone conversations when they

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Speaker 12: were in middle school and just thinking like this guy

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Speaker 12: has like got something wrong with him, like he's you know,

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Speaker 12: getting in trouble going to psychiatric words in juvenile hall

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Speaker 12: and breaking into relatives' houses, could go.

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Speaker 13: To Lincoln get it, Yeah, getting kicked out of Lincoln.

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Speaker 12: Things like that, Like, I you know, he piqued my curiosity,

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Speaker 12: but also I think spoke to Anastasia that she would

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Speaker 12: be friends with somebody that maybe didn't have a lot

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Speaker 12: of friends and that was kind of hard to love.

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Speaker 13: She didn't give up on him.

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Speaker 1: I then ask Fran what she remembers about Anastasia and

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Speaker 1: Justin's relationship.

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Speaker 12: I just remember like thinking about it, like that's I mean,

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Speaker 12: they didn't know each other that long before, you know,

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Speaker 12: she was thinking they were going to be together forever.

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Speaker 12: I think she believed they would get married. So when

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Speaker 12: they started to have problems, she was not willing to accept.

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Speaker 12: I guess that's part of her personality too, is she

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Speaker 12: is very headstrong and stubborn, so she wasn't willing to

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Speaker 12: scept that it was going to be over. On his terms,

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Speaker 12: she had told me he suffered from depression, so he

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Speaker 12: was a little bit more standoffish and quiet, and he

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Speaker 12: was polite. Yeah, I think my sister was kind of jealous.

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Speaker 12: The only like, one of the only memories I have

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Speaker 12: of going out with them together was to the young

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Speaker 12: Casey bookstore and some.

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Speaker 13: Bookstore employee college girl.

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Speaker 12: Was talking to him, and Anastasia got a little jealous,

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Speaker 12: and I remember thinking, like, pastilly, that was or whatever.

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Speaker 14: But those are the memories you have.

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Speaker 6: I know.

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Speaker 13: It's kind of like, oh that's and.

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Speaker 12: I think they were joking about it, like in some

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Speaker 12: ways Anastasia was insecure with herself, maybe so that she

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Speaker 12: she believed or she thought maybe justin what might be

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Speaker 12: too good for her kind of dynamic, especially because his

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Speaker 12: family did come from money, was the impression that he gave.

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Speaker 15: So they worked at the bookstore together or not the

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00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 15: bookstore store a store on the plaza, a store of

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Speaker 15: knowledge on the plaza for very long.

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Speaker 14: No, well, none of this was for very long.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, it is such.

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Speaker 1: An interesting friend. Emma and I talked some more than

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Speaker 1: Emma reminds me of what's at stake.

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Speaker 13: You have immense power in your hands.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a very big responsibility, and I don't take

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Speaker 1: it lately because ultimately it's about your sister. So sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting all tripped up, but yeah, and and yeah,

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Speaker 1: so thank you, thank you too. Sorry I'm a mess. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Have a good rest of your evening after.

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Speaker 1: I am incredibly thankful to Fran and Emma for sharing

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Speaker 1: some of their memories of Anastasia with me. You will

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00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: hear more from them down the line. I also reached

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Speaker 1: out to Justin's sister to see if she and or

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Speaker 1: her mom might be open to talking with me, but

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Speaker 1: she never responded. From the photos I've seen, Justin was

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Speaker 1: a good looking kid, tall, brown hair, brown eyes, and

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Speaker 1: he wore wire rimmed glasses. It seems he was in

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Speaker 1: his second year at the University of Missouri at Kansas City,

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Speaker 1: studying journalism, although I think he had stopped going to

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Speaker 1: classes that fall. Justin loved animals. He and Anastasia had

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Speaker 1: a black cat together named Pagan, and from all accounts,

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Speaker 1: Justin was a very kind and gentle soul. On November twentieth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, fifteen year old Kelly Moffatt, Byron's girlfriend,

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Speaker 1: meets with Sergeant Kilgore at the Dairy Queen where they

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Speaker 1: picked Anastasia up that night. Although kil Gore has already

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00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: interviewed Kelly, he wants her now to show him exactly

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Speaker 1: where they went and what they did leading up to

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Speaker 1: Anastasia getting out of Justin's car. Kelly is accompanied by

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Speaker 1: her mom, Deborah Moffatt, who chimes in later.

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Speaker 4: Yah, I have a couple of questions before we get started.

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Speaker 4: Have you ever known Byron to own again any gain

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Speaker 4: at all?

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Speaker 6: Not that I've seen him.

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Speaker 4: Okay, has he ever had one? In his position?

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Speaker 6: Justin was only one that had bought the gun at

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Speaker 6: wal Wine.

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Speaker 4: Do you know where that particular gun is? Had you

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Speaker 4: ever seen again? Wait?

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Speaker 16: Yeah, actually I saw it at his condo, But I

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Speaker 16: mean I've never seen him fire or anything because him

351
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Speaker 16: and Byron are everybody's like that stupid it cost too

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Speaker 16: much and it's like just like a big toy.

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Speaker 4: Okay. Do you know if Byron disposed of the weapon

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Speaker 4: for him?

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Speaker 6: No? But I know all I knew was that Justin

356
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 6: didn't have the gun anymore.

357
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Speaker 4: Okay. On the the night that you, you and Byron

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Speaker 4: and Justin picked up Anastasia, you're here at this dairy, queen,

359
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 4: it is Crand Okay, what time did Justin and Byron

360
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 4: first get over to your house.

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Speaker 6: After m h It was probably fivety no, or maybe

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Speaker 6: even a little bit earlier.

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Speaker 4: And when you guys left there, where did you go?

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Speaker 6: There's a I don't know.

365
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 16: There's a gas station by my house if we went there,

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Speaker 16: so that they could get something to drink in this

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Speaker 16: gas Oh and also Justin called Anastasia from there because

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Speaker 16: their plans have been all screwed up. She can't right up.

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Speaker 6: Probably right after they picked me up, So like five forty.

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Speaker 4: Five or so, we called her from this gas station.

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Speaker 16: Yeah, from the paphone there because he she like left

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Speaker 16: weird messages on his answering machine, so just to like

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Speaker 16: find out what happened, he called her. How she wasn't there,

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Speaker 16: pushes r Frian goes, well, she got an end up

375
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Speaker 16: to at wash and he goes, well, I told her

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Speaker 16: that I couldn't go, and she canted the plans with

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Speaker 16: an and so then he's like, well, great, we better

378
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Speaker 16: get back to Westport so that I can.

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Speaker 6: Take my answering machine.

380
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Speaker 16: Because he didn't know where she was, but once he

381
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 16: found out she was here, then he just wanted to

382
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 16: build here.

383
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: Kelly just shared a new detail that after Byron and

384
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: Justin picked her up, they went to a nearby gas

385
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Speaker 1: station in Lenexa, Kansas, near where she lives, and that's

386
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 1: where Justin was when he called Anastasia's house, which seems

387
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: to track because Francesca in her interview told Kilgore about

388
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: twenty minutes after Anastasia left, Justin called and said he

389
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: was in Lenexa, Kansas. But this is different than what

390
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: Byron said in his first interview, which is that after

391
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Speaker 1: they picked Kelly up, they went directly to Justin's condo.

392
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Speaker 1: There Justin played a message Anastasia left him saying she

393
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: got a ride to meet him at Mount Washington Cemetery.

394
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 1: After all, Justin then called Anastasia's house and that's when

395
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Speaker 1: he spoke with her sister friend, who told him that

396
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: Anastasia was at Mount Washington Cemetery. Okay, back to Kelly

397
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Speaker 1: and Kilgore.

398
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Speaker 4: And so after the gas station, then he went back

399
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 4: to Justin's department about what, Tom, did you get there?

400
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 6: Six six thirty probably six thirty?

401
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 4: When did you leave there?

402
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 16: Probably like twenty minutes later, so like seven seven, Because

403
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 16: first she had to check all his answering, like he's

404
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 16: answering Washington. And then Anastasia called from a pay for

405
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 16: propaty and she's like get up here, I'm Cole blah

406
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 16: blah blah.

407
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 4: And they're like That's when I started following. Okay, so

408
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 4: you left Justin's apartment at about seven o'clock.

409
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 16: Yeah, probably a little bit after. Yeah, oh the way

410
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 16: we left early she would go to the yeah, probably

411
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 16: like seven okay, and you.

412
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: Went to where Kelly says after they left Justin's house

413
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,959
Speaker 1: they stop at a smoke shop. This is also a

414
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: new detail.

415
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 4: And then from there you went where here to this

416
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 4: dairy queen. Do you remember about what time you got here?

417
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 6: I'll probably say seven now, probably seven forty five or

418
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 6: was my doll? She was mad and I just laughed.

419
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,239
Speaker 6: She's like, I just want to get out of here.

420
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 6: This place is so annoying.

421
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 4: Did she said that? And from that point, where.

422
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 11: Did you go?

423
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 4: For?

424
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 16: Well, she still wanted to go to Mount Washington tenthill

425
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 16: we went in there, Okay, did you?

426
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: Kelly's timeline is important. Kil Gore needs to make sure

427
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: it's consistent with what she said in her first interview,

428
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: and how does it match up with what other witnesses

429
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: have said. Kil Gore, Kelly and Kelly's mom, Deborah leave

430
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: the Dairy Queen and drive across the street to Mountain

431
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Washington Cemetery. Again, not the same cemetery where Anastasia's body

432
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: was found. That was Lincoln Cemetery.

433
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 4: Y'all just driving like this or in a hurry or anything.

434
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 16: No, no, not hurry, just kind of looking for Amaza limbs.

435
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 16: That's where Anna Stays wanted to like sit on the

436
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,439
Speaker 16: stoves and talk because she wanted on them to be alone.

437
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 16: And then Justin was gonna give me and Byron like

438
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 16: the car like to go drive off someplace else, well,

439
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 16: just like a little bit away and go talk to Zannasa,

440
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 16: just like ask.

441
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 6: Talk to a line.

442
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 4: Do you know why she needed to talk to him alone.

443
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 6: She was, well, she was mad at him.

444
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 16: I know that they had like broken up before, and

445
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 16: she was kind of I remember her saying, so she's.

446
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 6: Like, well, this is the last while you know, I'm freezing.

447
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 6: You know, we've already broken up and you can't even

448
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 6: come like pick me up all the time. I know,

449
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 6: there's like a big kind of church looking thing. It's

450
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 6: not that one, like I think it's up that way,

451
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 6: but I'm not sure. We went past there.

452
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 16: Yeah, we went here, and we're going to stop the

453
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 16: card and get out, But there was like a load

454
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 16: of like teenagers over.

455
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: There, and they were, Okah, when you pull in front

456
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 4: of this, did you stop?

457
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, like just.

458
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 16: Kind of in the middle of the road, and we

459
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 16: were we kind of stopped here and it was just

460
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 16: like some teenagers and stuff getting out and then uh,

461
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 16: right over by the steps. They were parked over her

462
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 16: by there. Then we saw a car. It was like,

463
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 16: I mean, it wasn't like a kid's car pull up

464
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 16: and they started to leave. So we kind of guessed

465
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 16: that it was the caretaker and we're like, well, we

466
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 16: better go because it followed us till we left the car.

467
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 4: Did what about the other car load of kids.

468
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 16: Just like left too because they saw the caretaker, but

469
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 16: they went out this way and the caretaker followed us

470
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 16: out that way.

471
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: Kilgore then asks about Anastasia's clothes.

472
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 4: Remember what she was wearing that?

473
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 16: Yeah, because I told her that her shirt was she

474
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 16: had on like she always wore black Janie's mostly black

475
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 16: shoes and it was like maybe blue or greenee shirt.

476
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 4: That.

477
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 16: Yeah, she had on like a big floppy I think

478
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 16: it was brown, like weird coat.

479
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 4: I might have any corn or have a purse.

480
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 6: Wallet.

481
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: Though this is close to what Francesca and her stepmom

482
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: Diane said, Anastasia was wearing that night, but different than

483
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: what Dairy Queen worker don Wright said. She said Anastasia

484
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: was wearing blue jeans, sandals with socks, and she was

485
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: carrying a brown purse. I wonder could the wallet and

486
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: the purse be the same thing anyway? Kelly says after

487
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: they left Mount Washington, they decided they'd all go back

488
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: to Justin's where he and Anastasia could talk.

489
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 4: Just did Anastasia agree with that?

490
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's fine.

491
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 16: She's like, just as long as I'm not cold on

492
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 16: the guitar, Yeah, this way right, because I remember passing by,

493
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 16: like over that solders.

494
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 4: When you got on to Truman Road. Did that they

495
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 4: continue what they're arguing? And do you remember anything at all?

496
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 4: It was said, Oh, man, I.

497
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 6: Was like just the same old stump.

498
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 16: She's like, was mad that he broke up with her,

499
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 16: and she was like, you know, you're showy responsible.

500
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 6: You can't even come pick me up all the time.

501
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 6: We always made plants and.

502
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 4: Break up and stuff like that. Is that true?

503
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 6: Well? I don't know to an extent sometimes, but she

504
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 6: usually wanted to see him, like every day, and he

505
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 6: kind of get mad.

506
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 16: He'd be like, no, look you know, I promised, like

507
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 16: Byron that I do something.

508
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 4: Look up.

509
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 16: And he also had this girl in Ashley that he

510
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 16: was wrapped with and she didn't like that.

511
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 6: I think she also brought that up.

512
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 4: That's all this familiar.

513
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, this is where they got like really bad stuff.

514
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 16: She's just like, look, just take me back to my house.

515
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 16: She was like, I want to talk the top. I

516
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 16: didn't waste like gas when he come out here for

517
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 16: like you to be a brat. So they kept like

518
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 16: fighting and she was like take me home, cra so

519
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 16: up at this stop light, that was when he had

520
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 16: to stop and she got out. She's like He's like,

521
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 16: don't get out of the car, being like a baby.

522
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 16: And then she's like, look there's two gas and she's

523
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 16: under that I can't be.

524
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 6: Around right now.

525
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 4: And did he stop at the light right down? Yeah?

526
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 6: I think he was in this line because she got out,

527
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 6: stepped onto that.

528
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 4: Little like famous and this is where she got out.

529
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 16: Yeah, right at the fun I think he was thinking

530
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 16: about like turning around, like to go back and get her.

531
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 6: But there was I mean, there really wasn't anyway because

532
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 6: there's like traffic and he's just like, well, screw it.

533
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 16: You know, there's a gas station night by there, and

534
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 16: she was also like was like, well, you know, she

535
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 16: won't even get back in the car if.

536
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 4: You go back to get her. And he's like, we'll

537
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 4: find And about what time was that? Do you remember

538
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 4: we got back.

539
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 16: To yeah, Justin's condo like eight fifteen, eight twenty something

540
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 16: like that, because we left I remember by eight thirty

541
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 16: because Abraham called and wanted us to pick up some

542
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 16: stuff of Tarras, and so Baron's like, well, if you

543
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 16: have to be back by you no, nine, nine fifteens

544
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 16: that are gone now.

545
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 6: So we played video games.

546
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 4: For from the Left, And so at what time did

547
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: you get home at?

548
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 6: Probably? Yeah, well I remember looking and we were like, well,

549
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 6: right on time. Probably it was either a little bit

550
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 6: before nine or a little bit after a little bit after.

551
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I told her she had to be

552
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 4: home by nine and she got hop. Yeah, it's like

553
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 4: nine ten all together from the time that she picked

554
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 4: up Anastasia Derek Plaine in the time that she got

555
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 4: out bank. Barry Truman of four thirty five, About how

556
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 4: much time do you think last?

557
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 6: I don't well, it probably only liked.

558
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 16: Like turn fifteen minutes because well, maybe a little bit

559
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 16: longer that because we know around the cemetery for quite

560
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 16: while because Justin was like all lost and everything.

561
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 4: But I don't it wasn't that long. And after that

562
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 4: you didn't see Anastasia.

563
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 6: Again and didn't even talk.

564
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 16: Why are we both were just kind of like, well,

565
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 16: she got out of the car to say me else,

566
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 16: slamming door.

567
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: Kelly says she never saw or talked to Anastasia or

568
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: Justin after that night. She did speak with Byron though,

569
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: sometime between eleven PM and midnight.

570
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 4: To you paid him and he called you back at

571
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 4: your house. Where was he at?

572
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 16: Because I remember he was talking about how we had

573
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 16: to get off off online to call me.

574
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 4: Back and what did you environ talk about that?

575
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 16: So we just kind of blunt it between like normal

576
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 16: commerciations and then we'd, like, you know, talk about like

577
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 16: the whole situation with that.

578
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: The tape runs out. I don't have the audio for

579
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: the second side, but I have the transcript. Kelly goes

580
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: on to say she doesn't think there was a suicide pact,

581
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: and she doesn't think Justin killed Anastasia. She says, Anastasia

582
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: annoyed Justin, but that was about it, and she can't

583
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: imagine some random person grabbing her. When asked if there

584
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: was anything else she could share, Kelly says, quote, I

585
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: mean Anastasia was like really mad. I'd never seen her

586
00:33:47,280 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: this mad. Two significant things happen on November twenty first,

587
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven. One kil Gore calls Justin's dad, John Bruton,

588
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: to brief him on the investigation. It's now been about

589
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 1: twenty seven days since Justin was found dead. In kil

590
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: Gore's report, he writes that he asked John what Byron

591
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: told him about the night Anastasia got out of Justin's car.

592
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: John Bruton says the only specific thing that Byron told

593
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: him was when they got to the stoplight, Anastasia supposedly said,

594
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 1: I don't know why you don't love me. I don't

595
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 1: know why you don't want to be with me, and

596
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: Justin replied, I'm sorry, I don't either, but I just don't.

597
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: The other significant thing that happens on November twenty first

598
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: is Bob, Anastasia's dad, and kil Gore speak over the phone,

599
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: warning the audios not.

600
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 9: Great, and I was just curious, as true.

601
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 10: How much contact you've had with Justice's father I have

602
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 10: quite a bit of contact.

603
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 8: Okay, how's he doing with his uh death? You're kindly

604
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 8: not satisfied with a with a suicide as.

605
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 4: Any Well, I don't think he has anything a question

606
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 4: about suicide on his son, or.

607
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: It seems Bob is wondering if Justin's death might not

608
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 1: actually have been self inflicted. He then asks if Kilgore

609
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 1: has taken Justin's answering machine into evidence.

610
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: Oh, he did not retrieve that.

611
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 8: A lot of people that try to call Justin that

612
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 8: day or that evening, that Wednesday evening and all day Thursday.

613
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 8: My understanding is that Justin's father arrived at the apartment

614
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 8: late Thursday night, where a lot of messages on that

615
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 8: that the tape, and I just wonder why if he

616
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 8: had it, why he don't have that.

617
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: I can't answer that, Okay.

618
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 8: Would it be possible if he had spoken over the

619
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 8: top messages that you might be able to retrieve.

620
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 4: Something out of that. Would I don't believe there's a

621
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 4: technology to do that.

622
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 8: Okay, Well, he might just talk Justine's father about that

623
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 8: audio tape.

624
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: More on that in a moment. It's now been a

625
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: month since Anastasia was killed and Bob is desperate for answers.

626
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: On November twenty fourth, he contacts Sergeant Kilgore and tells

627
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: him that he spoke with John Bruten, Justin's dad, who

628
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: is now not so sure his son committed suicide. So

629
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: kill Gore calls John Bruce himself, and John relays the

630
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: conversation he had with Bob. Kil Gore writes in his

631
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: report that Bob told John that Byron was quote bisexual

632
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: and was infatuated with Justin. John stated he didn't believe

633
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: his son was gay. Bob told John he believes Byron

634
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: and another guy named Alex might have been involved in

635
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: the murder of Justin. Bob also told John that Kelly

636
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: Moffatt had been quote addicted to heroin and that she

637
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: was a prostitute and that she sold herself and used

638
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: the money for drugs. By the way, these prostitution claims

639
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: are unsubstantiated. John tells Kilgore he is now not completely

640
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: convinced Justin's death was a suicide, but John says he

641
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: hired a private investigator and the PI said everything appeared

642
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: to be quote cut and dry, that Anastasia's death was

643
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: a homicide and Justin's was a suicide. Kil Gore asks

644
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: John to send him Justin's answering machine. A few days later,

645
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: it arrives.

646
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 4: Back you have thirteenth full necagers.

647
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: It's noted in a report that there are thirteen messages

648
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: on the machine, including the one Kilgore left for Justin

649
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: on October twenty third. The tape is very poor quality,

650
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: but there is a transcript of the messages, which begin

651
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: in the early afternoon of Thursday the twenty third, the

652
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 1: day Ona Stage's body was found, and go through Saturday

653
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: the twenty fifth, the day Justin's body was found. The

654
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: callers include Sergeant Kilgore, Justin's friends Byron, Paige and Abraham,

655
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: Justin's mom and dad, and a few other people, all

656
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 1: basically asking Justin to call them back. So where are

657
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 1: the messages from the night of the twenty second and

658
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 1: the morning of the twenty third. Anastasia was murdered sometime

659
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: within that window. Remember. Bob says he left a message

660
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: for Justin around nine thirty ten the night of the

661
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: twenty second, and Justin called him back sometime after ten.

662
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: Bob also says he called and left a message for

663
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: Justin the next morning. Neither of those messages are on

664
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: the machine. Also not on the machine is the message

665
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: Anastasia supposedly left Justin saying she got a ride after all,

666
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: and that she was at the dairy Queen. Sergeant Kilgore

667
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: contacts the FBI for help on retrieving the messages. He

668
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: also contacts the Sony Corporation, the maker of the answering machine.

669
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: They tell him that erased or recorded over messages are

670
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: not recoverable. December first, we're now six weeks into the investigation,

671
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: and Bob calls Sergeant Kilgore again. He suggests a new

672
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: theory about Anastasia's murder that somehow involves Justin's dad John

673
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 1: as an accessory.

674
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:03,879
Speaker 16: After the fact.

675
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,399
Speaker 1: After the call, kil Gore writes in his report, mister

676
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: Whipples Fugen is quote rambling nearly every contact I have

677
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: with him. He says, mister Whipples Fugen's comments, etc. Are

678
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: making little sense. On December fifth, Sergeant Kilgore interviews a

679
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: friend of Anastasia's whose name has come up during the investigation.

680
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 4: Sake an answer, ale Xavier Strange.

681
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 6: Growth.

682
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: That's Alex the Alex that Bob thinks might have had

683
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: a hand in killing Justin. My guess is that kil

684
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: Gore thought that theory was ridiculous, so he doesn't even

685
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: ask Alex about it. Alex says in the two and

686
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: a half months set he knew Anastasia, she talked a

687
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: lot about the ups and downs of her relationship with Justin,

688
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: and the last time he spoke with Anastasia he told

689
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: her he found her attractive.

690
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I barely knew out of stage or she

691
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: just turned it right as I was getting to know,

692
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 3: I thought out I really liked her, and then I

693
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 3: lost her, and so I am in. You know, I'm

694
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 3: in a bit of pain about that. It's like things

695
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 3: I don't like to have happened to me, and so,

696
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's confusing. But I'm not an expert.

697
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not someone that was close enough to

698
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 3: maybe know what was going on.

699
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 4: I would like to know what was going on. I'm

700
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 4: trying to use my intuition.

701
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 2: Well, have you have you talked to anybody that you

702
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: might be I had some incredible information about how she died.

703
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 3: No, I wish I had, because I would be following

704
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 3: them around. I would be keeping closer eye.

705
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: Are you aware of any type of a suicide pack

706
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 2: or anything.

707
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 3: I was waiting for the death cult stuff. No, I

708
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 3: do not believe there's any kind of a cult or

709
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: any kind of a pact. I don't know where that

710
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 3: concept came from.

711
00:41:59,640 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 6: Justin.

712
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: And on a stage, it weren't even in the mode

713
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 3: of what you would call industrial.

714
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 4: Gothy or whatever.

715
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 3: They didn't wear all black, they weren't depressed all the time.

716
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: Justin's kind of wre s forty light outfits and on

717
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: a stage are bounced back before trains some darker outfits

718
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 3: to some lighter outfits, and it's just.

719
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 4: Like, I've never heard of anything like that. But then again,

720
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 4: you know, no, I couldn't.

721
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: I can't see any of those goop calls being involved

722
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 3: in anything like that. So and on a stage and

723
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 3: Justin just barely even listening to even the darker music

724
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 3: it was in the quite a variety of music had

725
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 3: that was a lot happier, or it went through moods

726
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 3: like like on a stage of like The Cure, which

727
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 3: can't be considered kind of depressing, but it's it's romantic

728
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 3: on a stage was more romantic.

729
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 4: Because I don't know about Justin, Like I said.

730
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: Honest, Kilgore asks when was the last time he saw Byron,

731
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: Alex says, at Anastasia's funeral, he just he always.

732
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 3: Seems nervous to me always, so his demeanor at the

733
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: funeral was the same level of nervousness that I would

734
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 3: expect from him at any time. She was just talking

735
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,959
Speaker 3: about the investigation, talking about how he, I mean, he felt,

736
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 3: talking about how he felt accused of it.

737
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 4: He was being shocked about that.

738
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 11: That was his whole thing.

739
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 3: It's like, I can't believe, you know, the injustice is

740
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 3: going on here and the fact that they're trying to

741
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 3: accuse us of it, And that was the main gist

742
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 3: of everything that he was saying.

743
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 4: Did Anastagia ever speak of her family line? He was

744
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 4: actually talking to me.

745
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 3: Some about the family, And all I knew is that

746
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 3: she was looking for a place out. She cannot stay

747
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 3: at her where her she was residing. Her dad didn't

748
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 3: want to them.

749
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:41,479
Speaker 4: It was her dad.

750
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 3: It was her dad that didn't want to it. But

751
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't because of his wife.

752
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: He means, Diane, Bob's wife, Anastasia's stepmom. Kilgore then asks

753
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: Alex if he knows of anything else that might assist

754
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: him in the investigation. Alex says he does not.

755
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 4: I do not know for back to to kill Landstein,

756
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 4: no I wish.

757
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 1: December twelfth, Anastasia's dad, Bob contacts Sergeant Ron Kellogg. Sergeant

758
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: Kellogg was hands on in the early days of the investigation.

759
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: Since then, it's pretty much just been Sergeant Kilgore on

760
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: the case. Bob tells Sergeant Kellogg he hasn't heard from

761
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 1: Sergeant kil Gore since quote this past Monday, Kellogg writes

762
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: in his report, quote he stated to me that as

763
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: the leader of this unit, that I had better find

764
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,880
Speaker 1: out something about the investigation by the end of the

765
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: day and get back with him. Kellogg continues, quote, this

766
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 1: caller's voice showed a sign of threatening that I had

767
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: better get this information or else. On December twenty first,

768
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: an interesting email exchange begins, not between Bob and sergeant's

769
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: kill Gore or Ca, but between Bob and Byron and

770
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,720
Speaker 1: Bob's friend Patrick Rock. Remember he's the one who started

771
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 1: and is maintaining the Anastasia memorial website, and it seems

772
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: the first email comes from Byron. He writes to Patrick

773
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 1: after he sees some stuff on the website that doesn't

774
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,280
Speaker 1: sit well with him. The subject line of the email

775
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: is character assault. Byron writes that he has cooperated with

776
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: police and to insinuate that he knows anything more as ridiculous.

777
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: He asks for them to stop with the accusations. Patrick

778
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 1: writes back, in part, quote you were her friend for

779
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: many years, Byron, you took her to the prom if

780
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: nothing else, why did you fail to stop Justin from

781
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: driving away? Byron and Patrick go back and forth a

782
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,399
Speaker 1: couple of times, then Bob jumps in. On Christmas Eve,

783
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: Bob writes that the website is quote intentionally provocative because

784
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: of the web of silence that still exists sixty days

785
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: after the tragedy. Bob continues to Byron, your characterization of

786
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: yourself and of the events that occurred that night are

787
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: incompatible and therefore illogical. That same day, Christmas Eve, Byron's

788
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 1: father dies unexpectedly, a day before his fiftieth birthday. On

789
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: December twenty sixth, Bob writes Byron, sending his condolences. He

790
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: goes on to say that for all the losses he's experienced,

791
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: nothing compares to the loss of a child, especially quote

792
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: a murdered child whose memory will never rest in peace

793
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: until justice is done. If you, now, in the pain

794
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: of familiarity with death, characterize my correspondence with you as

795
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: hate mail, then I pity you.

796
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 4: Byron.

797
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: For months, the back and forth of emails between Bob

798
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: and Pat and Byron continue. Bob and Pat ask Byron questions.

799
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: Byron's tone is quite testy at times, but he answers

800
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 1: their questions. Then, in early March, Bob invites Byron to

801
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,239
Speaker 1: go play pool and grab food, after Byron responds quote, well,

802
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: I'm not much for pool, but I have been considering

803
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: meeting with you and or Patrick to more easily discuss things.

804
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: You two have a lot of questions, and email, as

805
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: handy as it may be, isn't exactly the best way

806
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: to go about answering them. I think in person there

807
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: would be less of a chance of misunderstandings flaring up.

808
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: It seems they never do meet. The emails start up

809
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: again in May, and on May second, Byron writes Patrick

810
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: in part, quote, I realized long ago that I was

811
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: not being ruled out as a suspect that bothers me,

812
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: but because there is no way to prove to the police,

813
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: that I am innocent. I have to just deal with that.

814
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: Sergeant Kilgore is merely doing his job and following procedure,

815
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: and I am in no position to dispute logic. I

816
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: can't help but feel that if this were the Dark Ages,

817
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: Anastasia's family would have had me burned at the stake

818
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: out of sheer suspicion. That is what bothers me, not

819
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: that the police haven't ruled me out, but that the

820
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: family is convinced that I had a hand in Stassia's murder.

821
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: Even if I was perverted enough to murder someone, I

822
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: doubt I'd be such a sick fuck as to bring

823
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: my girlfriend along for the ride. That doesn't exactly make

824
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: a good impression on one's beloved. What the hell do

825
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: you take me for? Those are some of the emails

826
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: between Bob, Patrick Rock and Byron that run from December

827
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety seven through May of nineteen ninety eight,

828
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 1: but rewinding four months to January TEWOD of nineteen ninety eight,

829
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: Bob writes an email to Sergeant Kilgore that may make

830
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: a monumental difference in the case, subject line blue jeens.

831
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 1: On January TEWOD nineteen ninety eight, Anastasia's father, Bob Whitbolsfugen,

832
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 1: writes what might be a bombshell of an email to

833
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: Sergeant Kilgore. It says, in part quote, I don't remember

834
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 1: if I ever told you. A couple of days after

835
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 1: her death, I opened the washing machine and inside was

836
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: a single pair of blue jeans. It was nothing unusual

837
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: because I frequently do laundry and often found that the

838
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 1: girls had unfinished stuff in the wash. Bob goes on

839
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,680
Speaker 1: to write, also in the wash basin in the basement

840
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: next to the washing machine was a pair of her

841
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: underwear soaking. About a week later, Bob sends another email

842
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 1: along with a photo of a brown purse. He writes,

843
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: is this possibly the purse that Don Wright said Anastasia

844
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: reportedly had at the DQ. By the way, I'm going

845
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: to post to the photo of the purse on the

846
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 1: Real Killer podcast on Instagram. Okay, So do Bob's emails

847
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: corroborate what Dawn Wright, the dairy queen worker said Anastasia

848
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,960
Speaker 1: was wearing that night blue jeans and carrying a brown purse.

849
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: And we know Anastasia got her period while she was there,

850
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 1: So the fact that Bob found her blue jeans and

851
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: the washing machine and her underwear soaking. Does all of

852
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: this together mean she actually went home at some point?

853
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 1: And if she did go home and change her clothes,

854
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 1: why did she go back out? Where did she go

855
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: and how did she get there?

856
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 16: And who was she with?

857
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: While Kilgore is busy with the official investigation Anastasia's father,

858
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: Bob continues with his own. He goes to the coffeehouses

859
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: where Anastasia, Justin, Byron, and Kelly used to hang out,

860
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 1: and he interviews her friends. Bob sends Kilgore emails and

861
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: faxes about what he learns from these interviews and shares

862
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: all the new theories he's working on, like, for instance,

863
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: how he suspects a sheriff's deputy might be involved in

864
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 1: Anastasia's murder somehow. It's now January twenty second, nineteen ninety eight,

865
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 1: three months into the investigation, Sergeant Kilgore calls Bob at

866
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 1: work to follow up on some of his emails. The

867
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 1: audio is not great, so i'll sum up the important part,

868
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 1: Bob says. One day, when he was out putting up

869
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,800
Speaker 1: reward posters, he spoke with Don Rand at the Amico station.

870
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 1: Remember night mechanic Don Rand said he saw Anastasia walking

871
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 1: east on Truman Road around eight thirty the night of

872
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: the twenty second Bob tells Kilgore after talking with Don Rand,

873
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: he then went next door to the Phillips sixty six

874
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: gas station and spoke with a father and daughter who

875
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: may have been the owners. They told him they also

876
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: saw a young woman that night and she used the

877
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: payful This could be huge. Are there now two more

878
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: witnesses who saw Anastasia that night on Truman Road? And

879
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,839
Speaker 1: if Anastasia did in fact use the payphone, who did

880
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: she call? Were they her ride home or her ride

881
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: to Lincoln Cemetery? On April first, Bob and Sergeant kill

882
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: Gore speak again. Kil Gore writes in his report that

883
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: during the call, Bob asks if he's a suspect in

884
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: the case. Kil Gore tells him no, one's been ruled

885
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: out yet. Bob then says if kill Gore didn't believe him,

886
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 1: then he would have a problem. Kil Gore writes, quote,

887
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: I perceived this comment as a threat, and I cautioned

888
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: him about making threats towards me. Threat or no threat.

889
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 1: Bob continues with his investigation. Three months later, on July eighth,

890
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,720
Speaker 1: Bob speaks with kil Gore, this time at the Jackson

891
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Department, and this time it's about something Bob

892
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 1: has never brought up in the nine months since he's

893
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: been communicating with kil Gore. It's about cars. Cars, Bob

894
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 1: says he saw the night of the twenty second when

895
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: he went out searching for Anastasia. Bob says around eleven

896
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 1: thirty that night, he parked at the south gate to

897
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 1: Mount Washington Cemetery and watched a caravan of thirty one

898
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: cars go by. Bob believes the drivers of these cars

899
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: either know what happened to Anastasia or may have been

900
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: directly involved in her death. Bob tells Kilgore he got

901
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:45,359
Speaker 1: license plate numbers, makes and models, as well as descriptions

902
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: of some of the drivers.

903
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 9: I did the best I could.

904
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 4: How long were you staying in there?

905
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 17: I figured somewhere between ten and fifteen minutes? And you know,

906
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 17: live the thirty one car, Yeah, so you saw him

907
00:53:58,320 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 17: at fifteen minutes.

908
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 4: Let me answer your question. Are the the list that

909
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 4: we're looking at are using the order as you saw

910
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 4: them coming down? Truman wrote I.

911
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 17: Tried to make them as close to it as as

912
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,399
Speaker 17: my memory as I did on that thing.

913
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: They go through the first twelve cars, then move on

914
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: to number thirteen, the white Pontiac six thousand with a

915
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 1: big dent in the front bumper and bumper stickers all

916
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: over the rear panel of the car. License plate morbid

917
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 1: is number thirteen.

918
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 13: Let me number thirteen.

919
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 17: There it is identified by all sorts of memorable things

920
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 17: about this vehicle. Have some tire prints, got a close

921
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 17: up of the decal which essentially, as all this guests later,

922
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 17: are not that significance anymore, and that I remember them

923
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 17: that night.

924
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 4: This blocked to Byron Tool.

925
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 13: I presume that it does.

926
00:54:58,280 --> 00:54:59,240
Speaker 11: It's in his position.

927
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 4: We did think we remember seeing that car that life

928
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 4: has played went ran down Truman Road when you were

929
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 4: standing at the entrance to not.

930
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 17: Wasting vividly, vividly remember how about occupant occupant? As I

931
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:15,879
Speaker 17: could determine there was only one occupant in this car

932
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 17: identified that fact very early on when I saw that

933
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 17: car round in the bend. I had been looking in

934
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 17: cars trying to see how many people were driving in

935
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 17: these vehicles, and had slim luck and seeing guy. But

936
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 17: I saw the drive around this car far away, and

937
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 17: it was the silliest thing because his face glowed like white,

938
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,879
Speaker 17: you know light. And I said, well, there's at least

939
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 17: one occupant in that driver, and he looks like the ghost.

940
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 4: By god, he must have come out of that come

941
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 4: out of the cemetery scared.

942
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 11: Why does the sheet coming down the hill?

943
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 4: What's the matter with you? You?

944
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 11: Independ It's got.

945
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,200
Speaker 1: Bob calls the driver of this car Independence goth Independence

946
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 1: is the name of the town nearby and where the

947
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: Whippos Fugens live.

948
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 17: Have you ever met Byron case before that, I had

949
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:21,480
Speaker 17: occasion to have dinner with him, probably with Anastas and

950
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 17: justin at Gojo's April February April, that area.

951
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 4: The night that you saw the vehicle, did you recognize

952
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:35,320
Speaker 4: the occupant?

953
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 17: No, no, it didn't occur to me at all. All

954
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 17: I saw was that there was somebody that looked like like,

955
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 17: you know, like the ghost.

956
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 4: Sure th share license.

957
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: Late Kilgore learns that Byron drives a white nineteen eighty

958
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 1: six Pontiac six thousand l E with Kansas license plates

959
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 1: that read morbid. The question is, did Bob actually see

960
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 1: Byron out that night? In the meantime, Bob's emails and

961
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 1: facts is to kill Gore continue. He still shares his

962
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: theories and what he learns while out investigating, but Bob

963
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: also starts zeroing in more on Byron, sending Kilgore photos

964
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: of Byron, Byron's car, close up of his tires, descriptions

965
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: of Byron's sightings, his new haircut, and links to Byron's

966
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: web page, and Bob starts sometimes emailing and factxing Kilgore

967
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 1: the same thing multiple times within minutes of each other.

968
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: At times, the tone is aggressive, like on July twenty third,

969
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: when Bob writes, quote, nine months later, and you still

970
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: haven't done anything. How do you sleep at night? On

971
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: August twenty first, nineteen ninety eight, kil Gore sends Bob

972
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: a letter. It reads, in part, quote stop harassing me,

973
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: both directly and indirectly. Stop harassing me at my residence.

974
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: Do not communicate with me at my residence or try

975
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: to contact me at my residence in any way. He

976
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 1: goes on to say, quote, I believe that your harassment

977
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: of me has caused irreparable damage to me personally and professionally.

978
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: I believe this was your intention, despite what you have

979
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 1: done to me personally and professionally. I am still optimistic

980
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: that the information and or evidence needed to solve the

981
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 1: case will eventually surface and the truth will be known.

982
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: On August twenty second, ten months after Anastasia was murdered,

983
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 1: Kelly Moffatt is back at the Jackson County Sheriff's Department

984
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 1: to answer more of Sergeant Kilgore's questions. This time, she's

985
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: accompanied by both of her parents. I have the transcript,

986
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: but not the audio from this interview, so I will

987
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: summarize some of what is discussed. Kelly says she and

988
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: Byron are still dating, but they've been fighting lately and

989
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 1: she thinks he may know more than he's sang. Kelly

990
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: now wonders if there might have been a suicide pack

991
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: that night after all. Kelly says, maybe Justin and Byron

992
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: freaked out after they saw Anastasia kill herself and they

993
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:19,040
Speaker 1: backed out of the pact. Kilgore asks when this might

994
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: have happened, and Kelly says maybe after they dropped her off.

995
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 1: She says, quote, I don't think that it was really

996
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: a murder situation, and she says she didn't see a

997
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,920
Speaker 1: gun with them that night. Kilgore asks about Byron's car.

998
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: Kelly says Byron wasn't driving it around that time because

999
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: she remembers he was getting a lot of rides from

1000
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: Justin and her parents were pissy about always having to

1001
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: take her to meet him. Kelly says Byron feels like

1002
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 1: he's being harassed by Anastasia's father, Bob, and because Byron's

1003
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: on probation for stealing back in nineteen ninety six, he

1004
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: doesn't want to speak with police. He's suspicious they may

1005
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: t try and trick him and falsely accuse him of

1006
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: Anastasia's murder. At the end of the interview, Kelly agrees

1007
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 1: to a computer voice stress analysis, something similar to a

1008
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: light detector test. Some of the questions Kelly's asked are

1009
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 1: did Byron kill Anastasia? Were you with Anastasia when she

1010
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 1: was killed? And do you know of anybody that might

1011
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: have some information about this suicide pact. In Kilgore's report

1012
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: after the interview, he writes, quote, due to a machine malfunction,

1013
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: the results of the test were void. After this interview

1014
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,360
Speaker 1: with Kelly, Sergeant Kilgore wants to speak with Byron again

1015
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: about the night in question and about his car. Byron

1016
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 1: now has legal representation, so his attorney tells Kilgore Byron

1017
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: won't be giving another interview at this time. But about

1018
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: a week later, Byron actually does call kil Gore. Here's

1019
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,479
Speaker 1: some of that recorded phone conversation from August twenty ninth,

1020
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight.

1021
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 4: And what chance are you coming out swing sit down

1022
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:12,600
Speaker 4: and talk again? Can I ask what? For example, just

1023
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 4: to go over what we've already gone over, to see

1024
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,520
Speaker 4: if there's been in new developments in your life because

1025
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 4: of this, to see if maybe you come up with

1026
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:27,880
Speaker 4: any additional information I might be able to spring off

1027
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 4: of just.

1028
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 7: Well, I mean nothing, I mean there's nothing that's changed, right,

1029
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 7: I mean.

1030
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 4: I'd still like to just in person degree interview.

1031
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 7: Well, I mean I really want statements. I mean you

1032
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:47,480
Speaker 7: still have that, right, Oh?

1033
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 4: Absolutely?

1034
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 7: Well, I mean yeah, nothing's changed from that. I mean, well,

1035
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 7: is actually I had to be a problem and you're

1036
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 7: doing this for me. Well, I'm really busy. I understand

1037
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 7: that my uh, you know, I mean my dad passed

1038
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 7: away in December, and trying to keep the top of

1039
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 7: your skat.

1040
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 4: All of that.

1041
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 7: You know, there's just a lot of tid more than

1042
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 7: or to work around your schedule. Well, I mean, I

1043
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 7: can't really offer anything, though.

1044
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 4: I still would like to united sit down and Chuck,

1045
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not playing any games or there's nothing

1046
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 4: like what that one to take you did with the

1047
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 4: wrong There are no games. I have no intentions for resting.

1048
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 7: You or anything.

1049
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: Kilgore is referring to Byron's friend Abraham here. You might

1050
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: remember after his interview with Sergeant Kellogg, he was arrested

1051
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: on an outstanding traffic warrant.

1052
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 7: You know, I mean, I can't think of anything else

1053
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 7: that I do have, and well, just with me, uh,

1054
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 7: you know, I I think I could better judge that

1055
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 7: as to what I need.

1056
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 4: Okay, what I might be looking for, what you might

1057
01:02:57,840 --> 01:03:00,960
Speaker 4: say or something like this that I would really like

1058
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 4: to sit down. Factor, there's no tricks.

1059
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 7: Well, it's just that this was ten months ago.

1060
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 4: Or I'm very well aware of the day, and.

1061
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 7: You know that's all that I know because I can't

1062
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 7: you know, I mean, if I could contribute anything else,

1063
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 7: I would call you. You would contribute a great deal.

1064
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 4: If you say yes, Sergeant.

1065
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 7: Kill well let's get together going talk. Well, I don't

1066
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 7: feel that that would be I mean, I don't see

1067
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 7: how that would give for any value whatsoever. I mean,

1068
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 7: I can't offer any more information.

1069
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 4: You don't even know my questions.

1070
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 7: Well then, I mean I'm on the phone now, right.

1071
01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 4: And I'm sure you can can appreciate my situation here

1072
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 4: the nature of the investigation that is not really something

1073
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 4: you would want to get to in depth over the funnel.

1074
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 11: I mean, I personally don't have a.

1075
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 4: Problem with it with interviewing over the phone. Is there

1076
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 4: a transportation problem, Well, first off, I told them to

1077
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 4: have to drive all the way out there, and like

1078
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 4: I said, I mean, there's nothing else that I can

1079
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 4: I can tell you. Well, maybe there is. I really

1080
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 4: appreciate you coming and talking again. Whatever time to day

1081
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:20,280
Speaker 4: is good for you.

1082
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 6: Well, I.

1083
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 7: I really wouldn't. I mean, basically, I just you know,

1084
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 7: I don't see how this is above anything you have

1085
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 7: to take people know about and everything that I said

1086
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 7: you before. I mean, I gave you more than you

1087
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 7: know enough details about anything. I would think that you

1088
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 7: know there would be you know, enough to go on

1089
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 7: from that. I mean, the fact that this hasn't been

1090
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 7: involved is I mean, you know, there's no fault of mine.

1091
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:55,920
Speaker 7: I mean, I told you everything I could, is yes,

1092
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 7: many a problem. I mean, you know that's not the issue,

1093
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 7: you know. I mean, I have more important things to

1094
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 7: do with my time than you know, run around in circles.

1095
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 4: No, no circles.

1096
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 7: I guarantee that in miss case, this is not a

1097
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 7: circle or anything like that.

1098
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 4: I guarantee you that.

1099
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 7: After we talk you can you'll be leaving.

1100
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,800
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to drag you in here just to

1101
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 4: make an a risk.

1102
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 6: I was going to do that.

1103
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 4: I was done that a long time ago. I think

1104
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 4: you know that.

1105
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 7: But there are some questions that have came out, and

1106
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 7: I need you to clarify a few things. I like

1107
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 7: I said, I mean, I can't clarify anything because all

1108
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 7: I know is I hold you.

1109
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 4: You know what I do. You have no idea what

1110
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 4: I need you to clarify. So how can you make

1111
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 4: a statement?

1112
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 17: Are you?

1113
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 4: Are you afraid to talk to me? You know?

1114
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 7: I mean it's just that I see absolutely no purpose.

1115
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 7: I mean, I give you all the information that I have,

1116
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,920
Speaker 7: but if I come to you, I you know, I'm

1117
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 7: hardly over here anyway. Well, that's not really the issue

1118
01:05:58,760 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 7: of like where.

1119
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 4: All Well, if it's not a transportation, if it's not

1120
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 4: location if it's not financial then and just not wanting

1121
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 4: to cooperate with me, I'm sorry, just not wanting to

1122
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 4: cooperate with me.

1123
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 7: No, it's it's not that at all. I mean that's

1124
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 7: cooperated as much as I can.

1125
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 4: Well, And and have I have I Have I ever

1126
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 4: asked you or hounded you or anything?

1127
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 7: No, I didn't think so.

1128
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 4: And so I'm now I see that you come in

1129
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 4: talk to me again and clarify a few things that

1130
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 4: came up during the course of this investigation. And I'm

1131
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:42,120
Speaker 4: just merely asking for your cooperation. Well, I will have

1132
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:44,480
Speaker 4: to get back with you, okay. And when could I

1133
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 4: expect you to get back with me?

1134
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 7: Probably sometimes they.

1135
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 4: Not may not be in the office.

1136
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 7: Okay, Well I can leave a leverage okay, thank you.

1137
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 1: I have no documentation that says Byron called kil Gore

1138
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: back that day, but there is a report that a

1139
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 1: couple of weeks later, Byron's attorney calls kil Gore with

1140
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 1: some information about Byron's car. He says it was towed

1141
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 1: to Birch Automotive, where it stayed for about two weeks,

1142
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: and it was there the night Anastasia was murdered. Byron's

1143
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,280
Speaker 1: attorney says Byron's dad paid for the tow by check

1144
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: and he banked at Brotherhood Bank. Byron's attorney says, in

1145
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 1: regard to an in person interview, his client is concerned

1146
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: investigators are going to try and pin the murder on him,

1147
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: so no interview will take place with Byron right now.

1148
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: But kil Gore does call Birch Engine Services and speaks

1149
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 1: with the owner, who says he has an invoice that

1150
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: shows Byron's vehicle was at his shop to have the

1151
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: water pump replaced. The work was completed on October twenty eighth,

1152
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: five days after Anastasia was murdered, and the bill was

1153
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: paid on the twenty ninth. Says he can't confirm when

1154
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 1: the vehicle was actually brought in and can't recall if

1155
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: the car was towed there or not, but he says

1156
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:10,680
Speaker 1: when a vehicle is towed to his shop, they use

1157
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:13,760
Speaker 1: Santa fe Toe service. The owner says he will send

1158
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 1: the invoice for the work he did on Byron's car

1159
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: to kilgre So it seems Byron's car was in the

1160
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,679
Speaker 1: shop at least on the twenty eighth and twenty ninth,

1161
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: but there's still no confirmation Byron's car was there the

1162
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: night of the twenty second kil Gore reaches out to

1163
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: Santa Fe Toe Service, who says they have no record

1164
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,080
Speaker 1: of towing a car for Byron case. I don't know

1165
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: if Kilgore ever reached out to Byron's dad's bank to

1166
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: see if perhaps another toe company had been used. We're

1167
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 1: now eleven and a half months into the investigation. There's

1168
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: still no weapon, no physical evidence or eyewitness testimony pointing

1169
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 1: to any one suspect or suspects. It continues to be

1170
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: an investigation fueled by rumors, speculation, and some wild theories.

1171
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: But maybe buried in there somewhere lies the truth. Next

1172
01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:15,559
Speaker 1: time on the real killer.

1173
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:17,640
Speaker 4: Who do you think killed Anastasia?

1174
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 9: I think there were many individual treasures and I don't

1175
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 9: know who pulled the trigger. I don't think that person

1176
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 9: is alive today.

1177
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: Are people being scared into silence?

1178
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,479
Speaker 9: Well, I think Virons fearing for his life and that's

1179
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 9: why he's not telling the story.

1180
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely

1181
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 1: those of the individuals participating in the podcast. If you

1182
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 1: or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis,

1183
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: please no help is available, call or text nine to

1184
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: eight eight or chat online at the Suicide and Christi

1185
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:04,639
Speaker 1: is Lifeline's website at nine eight eight lifeline dot org.

1186
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,679
Speaker 1: To see photos, maps and documents related to this season's story,

1187
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 1: follow The Real Killer podcast on Instagram and at TRK

1188
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: podcast on TikTok. The Real Killer is a production of

1189
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 1: AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Leah Rothman. Executive

1190
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 1: producers Leah Rothman and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Written

1191
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 1: by Leah Rothman, editing and sound design by Cameron Taggi,

1192
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:42,559
Speaker 1: mixed and mastered by Cameron Taggi. Production coordinator Andy Levine,

1193
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 1: Audio engineer Justin Longerbeam studio engineer Graham Gibson, Legal console

1194
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: for AYR Media. Johnny Douglas, Executive producer for iHeartMedia. Maya

1195
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:56,679
Speaker 1: Howard