WEBVTT - Short Stuff: MacGuffins

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck and Jerry's here too, sitting in for day, which

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<v Speaker 1>you guessed. It makes this a short stuff, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>a short stuff about a question that will probably never

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<v Speaker 1>be answered. What is a mcguffin?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I offered up a definition of my

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<v Speaker 2>own recently, and I'm not even sure what I said you.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you went with the second definition. Okay, that

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<v Speaker 1>we're covering here, all right, But there's I mean, even though,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's a couple of different definitions. They contradict each

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<v Speaker 1>other in certain ways, but there are some things they

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<v Speaker 1>agree on, and that is that a mcguffin is a

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<v Speaker 1>plot device. It moves things along to some way, to

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<v Speaker 1>some degree or another, it motivates characters in a story

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<v Speaker 1>or a movie. And what it is specifically and what

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<v Speaker 1>role it ultimately plays in the plot, that's what That's

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<v Speaker 1>where the definitions differ. And so just based on what

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<v Speaker 1>I just said, that means that figuring out what a

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<v Speaker 1>mcguffin is is the mcguffin of this episode of short stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>This would that wouldn't be the central premise of the

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<v Speaker 2>short stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know man, this is this is brain breaking.

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<v Speaker 1>This is like economics, quantum physics, and jackhammer is all

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<v Speaker 1>put together.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the first sort of definition I think, example wise,

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<v Speaker 2>is the Maltese falcon is kind of always if you

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<v Speaker 2>if you look up anything about the mcguffin, they'll usually

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<v Speaker 2>kind of point to the Maltese Falcon film as one

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<v Speaker 2>of the best examples. It was a novel and then

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<v Speaker 2>later a movie where Humphrey Bogart played Sam Spade and

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<v Speaker 2>the mcguffin is the Maltese fact falcon. It's his statuette

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<v Speaker 2>of a bird in the movie. But it's really not

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<v Speaker 2>about that Maltese falcon the object. It's about what happens

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<v Speaker 2>to try and get a hold of this thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, okay, okay, I okay, so this is where the

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<v Speaker 1>this is where I don't get it. So there's definitions

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<v Speaker 1>out there from screenwriters who say the Maltese falcon is

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<v Speaker 1>the point, this is the object that does everything in

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<v Speaker 1>the movie. All of the actions are based on getting

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<v Speaker 1>their hands on the Maltese falcon. There would be no

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<v Speaker 1>plot whatsoever if the Maltese falcon didn't exist. Ergo, that's

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<v Speaker 1>what a mcguffin is. It's the thing that moves the

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<v Speaker 1>entire movie. Yeah, right. The other definition is no. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it causes some action, and as far as the characters

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<v Speaker 1>are concerned, it's the most important thing, but it actually

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<v Speaker 1>isn't all that important in the overall plot. I get

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<v Speaker 1>the first definition of mcguffin quite clearly, but this other

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<v Speaker 1>definition I can not get because every time I say, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 1>then let me try to figure out what is an

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<v Speaker 1>example of a mcguffin there, I usually come up short

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<v Speaker 1>and it ends up basically falling into the first definition instead.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't see the difference much of a difference between

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<v Speaker 2>the two definitions.

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<v Speaker 1>I know there's not much difference, but the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>it's irrelevant or the most important part of the entire plot,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's a that's a difference for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but ultimately the Maltese falcon itself isn't like and

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<v Speaker 2>the cure for cancer is inside and we can save

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<v Speaker 2>the main character, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm gonna go with your take on this because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not the one who had a movie podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>So a good example of the second one, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to go over some more famous examples too at

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<v Speaker 2>the end. But in Raiders of the Lost Ark at

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning, that little gold head statue that he's that

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<v Speaker 2>he gets. If you had never seen that movie before,

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<v Speaker 2>you know he saw it for the first time, you

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<v Speaker 2>might think like, oh, this object that he's recovering is

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<v Speaker 2>like super central to the plot perhaps, and it's not

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<v Speaker 2>at all. So that's just sort of the first mcguffin

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<v Speaker 2>in that movie. They're usually introduced in act one, although

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<v Speaker 2>George Lucas has come out and said that he thinks

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<v Speaker 2>the actual arc of the Covenant is also a mcguffin.

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<v Speaker 1>So, yeah, you sent that and I don't get that.

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<v Speaker 1>Then that's the thing that motivates everyone's action. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>most important thing in the entire movie. How is that irrelevant?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean because I guess because in the end

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<v Speaker 2>they just go stick it in a box and put

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<v Speaker 2>it in a warehouse.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So then let me ask you this. You reference

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<v Speaker 1>like the multice Falcon haveying cure for cancer. If the

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<v Speaker 1>point of getting the Arc of the Covenant was to

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<v Speaker 1>open it up and like just and all of the

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<v Speaker 1>ills of the world, and then they did that at

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<v Speaker 1>the end, would that mean it's no out the mcguffin

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<v Speaker 1>then or mcguffin.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, because I don't think that was the

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<v Speaker 2>driving point of them trying to find the arc, like

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<v Speaker 2>that was a byproduct of it.

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<v Speaker 1>If it had been, though, oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, geez, I don't know. That movie so ingrained, it's

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<v Speaker 2>hard to sort of reframe it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I say we take a break, we'll regroup, take

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of film classes, and come back.

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<v Speaker 2>That sounds great.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Chuck, I've got another another attempt here. This one

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<v Speaker 1>makes a little more sense to me. In the The

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<v Speaker 1>Murder of Roger Ackroyd, the Agatha Christie book. Have you

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<v Speaker 1>ever seen? It's really good. No, It's essentially what the

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<v Speaker 1>what Knives Out the first one is based on. But

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<v Speaker 1>in there, the character, the main character, the titular character,

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<v Speaker 1>Roger Ackroyd. He is murdered, and he was murdered to

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<v Speaker 1>get so the murderer could get their hands on a

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<v Speaker 1>blackmail letter. Okay, the blackmail letter with the name of

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<v Speaker 1>the blackmailer. That's important to the characters, but it's not

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<v Speaker 1>really the point of the overall plot. The point of

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<v Speaker 1>the overall plot is Hercule Paul Rose's investigation to uncover

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<v Speaker 1>who murdered Roger Ackroyd. So in that sense, that blackmailer

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<v Speaker 1>letter is the mcguffin. How about that one?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it seems like a mcguffin to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, we're on the trail. So I think my

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<v Speaker 1>problem is this, Chuck. It's not that I can't understand

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<v Speaker 1>what a mcguffin is. It's that I can't understand why

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<v Speaker 1>some things that are mcguffins are called mcguffins, and other

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<v Speaker 1>things that aren't considered mcguffins aren't mcguffins. That's that's my

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<v Speaker 1>big problem here. I'm just going to shut up about

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<v Speaker 1>it from now on, but I just want to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure I go on the record saying.

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<v Speaker 2>That, all right, well it all comes. It came pre Hitchcock,

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<v Speaker 2>But Hitchcock is the one that sort of made it famous.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess he used it in a lot of his movies,

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<v Speaker 2>for sure, and he had a couple of different explanations

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<v Speaker 2>over the years. One is that it was something vitally

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<v Speaker 2>important to the characters but of no importance to me,

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<v Speaker 2>the narrator. Another one I saw him say was, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the thing that the spies are after, but the audience

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't care about, which was where he and George Lucas

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<v Speaker 2>diverged because George Lucas apparently R two D two was

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<v Speaker 2>a mcguffin in Star Wars. He said, I think the

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<v Speaker 2>audience should care and tally like, if the audience doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>care as much about R two as Luke does in

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<v Speaker 2>finding him, then like the emotional tilt will be off.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah for sure. But Hetchcock was able to pull off

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<v Speaker 1>what he was saying, and that say, like the microfilm

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever, you don't really care if the bad guys

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<v Speaker 1>get it or Carry Grant gets it. You want to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that Carry Grant and was it Grace Kelly

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<v Speaker 1>who is in north By Northwest? You just want to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that they're both okay. You don't care about

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<v Speaker 1>the microfilm?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, for sure. The movie Psycho is one of

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<v Speaker 2>the classic examples, because you know, everyone remembers the Baits Motel.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think if you haven't seen the movie in

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<v Speaker 2>a while, if you're not a student of that film,

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<v Speaker 2>you may forget that whole first part in the first

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<v Speaker 2>act where Janet Lee the reason she goes to the

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<v Speaker 2>Bates Motel is because she's on the run. After stealing

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<v Speaker 2>forty grand from her employer. And that forty grand, that's

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<v Speaker 2>the mcguffin that it never comes up again.

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<v Speaker 1>No, but it's the thing that initially motivates the character's actions.

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<v Speaker 1>It gets her to flee. She's on the lamp that

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<v Speaker 1>takes her to the Bates Motel, and then the actual

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<v Speaker 1>plot begins.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but what about the word itself?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you sent something and I've read this ten times

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<v Speaker 1>and I still don't get how it explains what a

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<v Speaker 1>mcguffin is. So I think I'll leave it to you.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's the one time Hitchcock tried to explain the

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<v Speaker 1>origin of mcguffin or what it is. I think.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he credits a writer that he worked with named

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<v Speaker 2>a Scottish guy named Angus McPhail, And one of the

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<v Speaker 2>theories is that it just comes from the root word

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<v Speaker 2>guff which is a word that means like something said

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<v Speaker 2>that's trivial or meaningless. So that certainly has a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit of weight. But another story is that apparently McPhail

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<v Speaker 2>had told this story to Hitchcock, where he said, two

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<v Speaker 2>Scottish men are riding on a train. One man asked

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<v Speaker 2>the other about the contents of a package on the

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<v Speaker 2>overhead luggage rack. He said, it's a mcguffin device for

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<v Speaker 2>hunting tigers in Scotland. And the other guy said, but

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<v Speaker 2>there are no tigers in Scotland. And he says, well,

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<v Speaker 2>then I guess it's not a mcguffin.

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<v Speaker 1>Still do not get it, well, I mean to me.

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<v Speaker 2>That just means it's sort of like that illustrates its meaninglessness.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, we'll go with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't see what else it could mean.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't either. I don't see what it can mean

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<v Speaker 1>in any case. Like it's like, yeah, I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>who knows. I think your interpretation's right. I can kind

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<v Speaker 1>of sink my teeth into the history of this because

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<v Speaker 1>you said that it predates Hitchcock, although he popularized it

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<v Speaker 1>apparently decades before that. This was TV Tropes who pointed

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<v Speaker 1>this out. There was a silent film actress named Pearl

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<v Speaker 1>White and then the kind of action cliffhanger serials that

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<v Speaker 1>she started. They were always chasing after some like role

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<v Speaker 1>of film or some treasure or something like that, and

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<v Speaker 1>she called them Weeni's but they were essentially what she

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<v Speaker 1>was saying. They were the plot devices. That was driving

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<v Speaker 1>all of the character's actions.

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<v Speaker 2>I like Weenie.

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<v Speaker 1>I like Weenie too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>Bring that back.

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite mcguffin I think is probably from Escape from

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<v Speaker 2>New York. Oh yeah, the cassette tape.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a good one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a cassette tape of Donald Pleasants as the President,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, he's trapped on the prison island of

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<v Speaker 2>New York and Snake Plisken is tasked with going to

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<v Speaker 2>get him and crucially that cassette tape back because it's

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<v Speaker 2>some big important speech to the world and you don't

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<v Speaker 2>even hear it at the end because well, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to spoil it, but you never end up hearing

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<v Speaker 2>what's even on that cassette tape. So that's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a classic mcguffin.

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<v Speaker 1>Similarly, another John Carpenter movie that had a great mcguffin

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<v Speaker 1>was the thing with Wilford Brimley being the mcguffin from

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<v Speaker 1>my understanding.

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<v Speaker 2>Of mcguffins, Yeah, that's a great movie.

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<v Speaker 1>You said, R two is the mcguffin in Star Wars

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<v Speaker 1>Episode four. I think that's awesome. I had never thought

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<v Speaker 1>about that before. But he's the droid that they're after

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<v Speaker 1>because he has the plans for the Death Star. Another

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<v Speaker 1>one that comes to mind is that mysterious briefcase that

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<v Speaker 1>belonged to Marcellus Wallace that Vincent and Jules go retrieve

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<v Speaker 1>in pulp fiction.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, classic mcguffin, And that one is I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>love pulp fiction, but that one definitely seems like Tarantino

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<v Speaker 2>really wanted to write in a classic mcguffin I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he did. Yeah, And they also they never

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<v Speaker 1>say what was in the briefcase no, and it just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of falls away from the plot eventually too.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, I think I have a bad taste

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<v Speaker 2>in my mouth about Tarantino in general lately.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what is it about like men who have power

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<v Speaker 1>and fame and reach like their fifties and just completely

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<v Speaker 1>just jerk out. I don't know, I don't get it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, my time is coming, I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I think you've passed the point.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so once you hear fifty four or fifty five,

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<v Speaker 2>then you're safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, I think you made it through the great

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<v Speaker 1>filter of becoming a jerk.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, your time's coming, then.

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<v Speaker 1>I know I'm really having to hang out you'll be

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<v Speaker 1>all right. I'm going to follow all of your examples,

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<v Speaker 1>including your definition of mcguffin, and I think we should

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<v Speaker 1>stop talking about mcguffins now, all.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, And hey, we'll say this right in. We'd love

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<v Speaker 2>to hear from film students and film centephiles and see

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<v Speaker 2>if you guys can give us a clearer definition.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a great call, Chuck, great call. Short Stuff is out.

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<v Speaker 2>Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.960
<v Speaker 2>more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 2>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows