Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast and another episode.
Speaker 2: I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 1: And I'm Kara Klank and we are talking SVU episodes,
Speaker 1: true crime recaps and you know, interviews with actors, writers,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And here we are Gota chats, gossips, chattel intro,
Speaker 1: a little intro. And it is December two if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this day one, and that is Britney Spears's birthday,
Speaker 1: So happy Birthday, Britney Spears.
Speaker 2: And also it is World's AIDS Day as well. But
Speaker 2: I focus on the Brandy, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: I think about AIDS all the other days of the Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're always thinking about it. And uh yeah, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: Happy birthday, brit brit I'm still nervous every time I
Speaker 1: see one of her video Kevin.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like I hate you know, it
Speaker 2: just it just kind of sucks when you have kids
Speaker 2: with the dirt bag you date in your bad Girl era. Yeah, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: then you're tied to this man who has nothing. Yes,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure he sucked her well twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: but like, that's not someone you want to have children with.
Speaker 4: A white man in a do rag.
Speaker 1: So you know, he seems like he offers very little
Speaker 1: to the planet besides, you know, and then he's acts
Speaker 1: like a book deals.
Speaker 4: I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't understand people who would buy the book. It's
Speaker 1: like read a synopsis online.
Speaker 4: But whatever. Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, so, I mean, it's wild when Instagram wants to
Speaker 2: flager not for appropriate or inappropriate. But I'm going ham
Speaker 2: all over the internet going it's not sex with children,
Speaker 2: it's rape.
Speaker 4: Sex implies consent. Children can't consent.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, eighty times a day on every post
Speaker 2: they see. It's just like we need to change the language.
Speaker 2: It's rape. They've raped. You cannot have sex with children,
Speaker 2: Megan Kelly, Your children should be taken out of your home.
Speaker 2: The fact that Child Projective Services is not in her
Speaker 2: home doing wellness checks is psychotic.
Speaker 4: I thought about it.
Speaker 1: I thought about you know what I thought about immediately
Speaker 1: when I saw that.
Speaker 2: Clip was the two year old child being taken away
Speaker 2: from her mother because the dad was abusive. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: thought about that, and how we're letting this fucking pedophile
Speaker 2: defender have teenagers in her home.
Speaker 4: Well, no, I didn't even think about that.
Speaker 1: What I was thinking of was how one time we
Speaker 1: looked something up in like People magazine, I have had
Speaker 1: all the differentiating types of pedophilia.
Speaker 4: It was worse than what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: It was like a fun article about different fetishes and
Speaker 2: unfortunately one of them was wanting to be a pedophile.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: One of them was like girls that are fourteen to
Speaker 1: seventeen and it's like what like? And you wrote an
Speaker 1: email and it got taken down. The article was taken down. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because it was. But I thought about that because I
Speaker 1: was like, look at this mother. I cannot believe this
Speaker 1: fucking dumb bitch trying to excuse.
Speaker 4: You know what I think about othelia.
Speaker 2: For some reason, people don't love promising young women as
Speaker 2: much as I do.
Speaker 4: And what it do for me, Yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 2: You gave me a bunch of merch from it, because
Speaker 2: I think like Kumel got gifted it.
Speaker 4: Yes, didn't need the mug, but I did.
Speaker 2: And I love when It's like Connie Britton has all
Speaker 2: these beliefs about boys will be boys, and then as
Speaker 2: soon as it's implied that her daughter was dropped off
Speaker 2: with all those guys in their dorm room, suddenly she's
Speaker 2: flipping out and having an shoe. And that's what I
Speaker 2: thought about that. It's like you're stumping for these ideas
Speaker 2: where it's like, well, give them your daughter, then yeah,
Speaker 2: give them your daughter. Then you want all these other
Speaker 2: daughters being victimized, Like what are we doing here?
Speaker 4: So gross?
Speaker 1: And like just the way that they've gone after gay community,
Speaker 1: the gay community, drag queens, acting like calling everybody groomers,
Speaker 1: and then you're like, fifteen is different.
Speaker 2: I was talking to someone who's more optimistic than me.
Speaker 2: She's like, they're not gonna rest. It's gonna come out,
Speaker 2: and she goes, we'll be ready. It's gonna be people
Speaker 2: you like from hot I go, there's no that surprise me.
Speaker 2: But I I'm like, get the list, get them all
Speaker 2: out of here, deep Bok show. But she thinks that
Speaker 2: it's not gonna rest and they're gonna have to put
Speaker 2: it out. But I don't think they're gonna I don't know,
Speaker 2: but they Also, I don't know how much more evidence
Speaker 2: you need the files versus these like I don't understand
Speaker 2: seem very telling, but I just need him going, oh,
Speaker 2: I used to go into the dressing room of teen USA,
Speaker 2: Like that's all I like.
Speaker 4: I also just I don't.
Speaker 2: Know why people need more and more evidence. I just
Speaker 2: hope this all comes out. I hope these people are
Speaker 2: I hope we bring down a pedophile ring, like I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't understand why.
Speaker 1: But the only thing I'm gradly I feel like there
Speaker 1: can be video of it happening and he could get
Speaker 1: it with. I really truly think they're in a cult.
Speaker 1: Like it's like people going, there's gonna be some of
Speaker 1: the guys you like in there. I'm not in a cult.
Speaker 1: I don't care if Bill Clinton goes to jail if
Speaker 1: there is few like you know, I mean, put Obama
Speaker 1: in jail, if you have proof of Obama fucking molesting kids,
Speaker 1: like do you know what I mean? There's no teams like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we gotta protect our guys, Like.
Speaker 4: No, yeah, people forget that. I'm not. I mean, I know,
Speaker 4: like we know about.
Speaker 2: Parents that fucking sell their children to pedophile Like no,
Speaker 2: nothing will surprise me anymore. But what I am The
Speaker 2: one positive of this that I'm into is now if
Speaker 2: any if I meet anyone that supports this administration anything,
Speaker 2: be like okay, pedophile, okay, pedophile. I like just being
Speaker 2: able to talk about Trump sucking Bill Clinton's dick, like
Speaker 2: in terms of insults and arguments like that.
Speaker 4: Can you even walk me through that?
Speaker 1: Because I think I missed like the source material on that,
Speaker 1: like the email says he's like a throat goat or
Speaker 1: like what's the.
Speaker 2: So the email is like, Hey, did Putin have those
Speaker 2: photos of Trump like going down up blowing Bubba? And
Speaker 2: I guess Bubba is Bill Clayton, And yeah, so that's
Speaker 2: all I saw. I'm not really looking into anything because
Speaker 2: I knew he was a rape.
Speaker 4: I don't need this evidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, never, it's that of it's surprising, but that's
Speaker 2: the one thing I can be. Like I'm dreaming of
Speaker 2: walking into the cellar and having the podcasters sitting there,
Speaker 2: like maybe during a fest the holiday, Like I just
Speaker 2: want to be like, are you guys talking about what
Speaker 2: pedophile you want to have on your podcast next? Like
Speaker 2: I want to start harassing people with this and so
Speaker 2: That's what I'm excited about, being like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: didn't you vote for the pedophile? That's so funny. That's
Speaker 2: so funny. So I'm excited for like being able to
Speaker 2: go low and be insulting, be rude to people.
Speaker 1: But you can already see like the Megan Helly, the
Speaker 1: podcasters on their side, I've seen this clip many times
Speaker 1: of this guy going having sex with a fifteen year
Speaker 1: old horrific, right, horrific two hundred years ago, totally normal.
Speaker 4: So I'm just saying things change, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but things have changed, I know, but they're trying
Speaker 1: to normalize this, like that's stuff.
Speaker 2: They want flavery back and they want women not to vote,
Speaker 2: so yeah, they want to bring it all back.
Speaker 4: They'll figure out a fucking way that whatever.
Speaker 1: Like Jonald Well, that girl should have been wearing that
Speaker 1: and convinced it and told him that she was eighteen,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's gonna not be his fault, Like
Speaker 1: that's the cult.
Speaker 4: You know, they're gonna find a way.
Speaker 1: Cults find a way like Jurassic plush g assholes.
Speaker 2: I also, like said before for Bravo, Kanna wrote, Nia
Speaker 2: and Danny are bad people. They're evangelicals, and people are
Speaker 2: like all evangelicals, I go, get out of your pedophile cult.
Speaker 2: Like I've been activated in a way that I've I've
Speaker 2: always been, but it's easier now because they're all pedophiles.
Speaker 2: It's obvious and you want to defend them. That's why
Speaker 2: I say about cal you know, it's like what I've
Speaker 2: been doing about religion, but now it's like, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: the one.
Speaker 1: And of course, thank you to everybody for sending us
Speaker 1: the amazing tweet or thread or whatever it is of
Speaker 1: somebody going I want Marishka Hargete to read the Epstein
Speaker 1: list out loud, like that's absolutely one hundred percent tea
Speaker 1: and should be happening. There's no other person like she
Speaker 1: should read it out loud. It should be an audiobook
Speaker 1: available for free that gets put on all of our iPods,
Speaker 1: like all of our phones, like the U two album
Speaker 1: We Just Wake Up and the Epstein Files are read
Speaker 1: by Marishka on our phones.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's also like the people being like no I believe women,
Speaker 2: so like I heard these women say it, so I
Speaker 2: don't know, what what do you what more.
Speaker 4: Do you want? Oh my god? It all And.
Speaker 2: Pedophile cults like I don't know. I think I've been
Speaker 2: emboldened even more.
Speaker 1: Oh.
Speaker 4: Also, congrats were the Tommies.
Speaker 2: I hear, I'm on the phone the Tommy excited people
Speaker 2: are the poll is good.
Speaker 1: People are like being the Tommies. People are messaging that
Speaker 1: it's perfect. I mean, look, we're not at one hundred
Speaker 1: percent on the vote, but we're not gonna please everybody.
Speaker 1: Some people wanted us to be the Barberas and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I like the Tommies there. I like it
Speaker 1: the Tommys out. They're woven throughout the entire series. There's Tommy's.
Speaker 1: I'm like, ever mad. I'm like, everyone's raving. Eighty two
Speaker 1: people voted.
Speaker 2: I'm like, it's over up for a minute, no I know,
Speaker 2: but I'm like it's overwhelming.
Speaker 4: It's done. Where the Tommy?
Speaker 1: So if you're just listening to this, go to our
Speaker 1: Instagram and on the post for the episode Desperate, which
Speaker 1: at this point will be a couple of weeks old.
Speaker 1: You can tell let us know if you are down
Speaker 1: with the new name for the TMU. Tommy's. That's what
Speaker 1: we're calling our listeners. We're gonna start opening the pod
Speaker 1: going what's up Tommy's and uh, that's it. We finally
Speaker 1: did it. Episode two d and fifty nine is what
Speaker 1: it took for us to come up with a name
Speaker 1: for our listeners to fifty nine where the Tommy's.
Speaker 4: You know what I did last week?
Speaker 1: I got a scalp like clean you know, have you
Speaker 1: ever ever is this popping up in New York? This
Speaker 1: is like big out here, like scalp spas. I want
Speaker 1: to go and they take this camera, uh, and they
Speaker 1: show you your scalp like magnified by a thousand, and
Speaker 1: you kind of want to throw up a little bit,
Speaker 1: but you can't. You It's crazy. How the strands of
Speaker 1: your hair. I think to myself, I've got a lot
Speaker 1: of hair. There's so much space in this between in
Speaker 1: between each strand of hair, There's so much space.
Speaker 4: And they were like telling me.
Speaker 1: They were like, they were like, how often do you usher?
Speaker 1: I was like, look, I only wash my hair once
Speaker 1: a week. I have really thick hair, like it doesn't
Speaker 1: get greasy. Like it's better for me to only wash
Speaker 1: once a week. They're like, great, you should shampoo twice.
Speaker 1: They were giving me some tips. They give you this
Speaker 1: really really like crazy. They just shampoo your hair like
Speaker 1: a ton of times foam. They like they tell you
Speaker 1: not to scratch your scalp like when you're washing your hair,
Speaker 1: but to just use the tips of your fingers, like
Speaker 1: don't use your nails. But it was it was like
Speaker 1: a spot like I was, I was on a table.
Speaker 1: I went with a friend. We were like lying on
Speaker 1: a table with like a couple's massage, and they like
Speaker 1: rubbed my arms down and stuff a little bit, but
Speaker 1: it was mostly scalp based.
Speaker 2: Did you go with clean hair? Obviously you're like no, no, no, no, dirty.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I went with dirty because I was like they're gonna
Speaker 1: wash it, you know, okay, and they blow dry it.
Speaker 1: That's the thing about this place that I went to.
Speaker 1: They do blow dry it and they have like a
Speaker 1: fancy dyce in but they don't do it. They don't
Speaker 1: style it. They just dry it so you don't go
Speaker 1: outside wet. So I left with like puff hair, but
Speaker 1: my hair felt very clean. But I just stopped like
Speaker 1: did it myself.
Speaker 2: I would do that next time I'm in LA, I
Speaker 2: would get a scalp because I'm nasty.
Speaker 4: I mean, we're recording.
Speaker 2: This is from Wednesday when I got my gray covered
Speaker 2: and I've gone through three workouts since. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: I kind of started following what you do where I've
Speaker 2: been reblow drying dirty hair and then dry shampooing it
Speaker 2: and then driving it out. Yeah, and was it just
Speaker 2: curls are harder for me? But anyways, so yeah, this
Speaker 2: is a six day old blow dry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you but like also I use products, so
Speaker 1: there's like build up on my scalp, Like I'm just
Speaker 1: I thought it was like, I feel my scalp feels
Speaker 1: very clean.
Speaker 4: I'm I'm this is not an ad.
Speaker 1: They're not fair, but I feel like I keep saying
Speaker 1: people talking about these and if you have popped up
Speaker 1: in LA and I was wondering if it was like
Speaker 1: a thing in New York because I was telling my
Speaker 1: sister too.
Speaker 4: I was like, you got to go to one of
Speaker 4: these scouts.
Speaker 2: But by Gotham Comedy Club I found, well, someone mentioned
Speaker 2: it and then I clocked it. And it's a massage
Speaker 2: place and a foot massage place that's open till eleven,
Speaker 2: which means I could like do a spot, go get
Speaker 2: a fucking foot massage, and then go to another spot.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to try to make that part of
Speaker 2: my routine. So I'll keep you posted on what I
Speaker 2: do there. I did go to the corner store. I
Speaker 2: went to the corner store. Guys, I went to the
Speaker 2: corner store. You're acting like you don't know what it is.
Speaker 2: It is it. It's like it's a restaurant where celebrities
Speaker 2: go in New York. It's Taylor Swift goes there, Lady Gaga,
Speaker 2: but Taylor goes there a lot, and it's like lines
Speaker 2: out the door.
Speaker 4: You have to get like line start at four o'clock
Speaker 4: and everywhere.
Speaker 2: Sin saying it's in Soho and Ali mckofsky comedian friend,
Speaker 2: she got a reservation.
Speaker 4: It is so bad. It is so all the hype.
Speaker 2: And I again, I'm reminded celebrities have bad taste, because
Speaker 2: remember I went to the the sushi place in the
Speaker 2: Strip mall. That was hundreds of dollars that all the
Speaker 2: celebs go to Sushi Plaza or Sushi Park or whatever.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I have had cheaper, better souit
Speaker 2: like I don't get this. And then when I performed
Speaker 2: at Costa Chipriani that's like a really rich person private club.
Speaker 2: Again I was like this soon a tartar is like
Speaker 2: it tastes like an airport. What the fuck is going on?
Speaker 2: So it's another kind of more evidence that celebrities and
Speaker 2: rich people do not eat or don't know how to
Speaker 2: eat well, or this is like their cheesecake factory, or
Speaker 2: it's their casual night because they're so rich, so like
Speaker 2: to them, this is like, oh, let's just go have
Speaker 2: some some of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and don't you think that like everything's pr two.
Speaker 1: It's like the people that started the restaurant know the publicist.
Speaker 1: There's like get them to come in and blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just And the thing is I ran into a
Speaker 2: food guy earlier that day randomly, and I was with
Speaker 2: another girl and he was like, Oh, the place sucks.
Speaker 2: And then my other friend was like he's so negative,
Speaker 2: like you're excited for a fun night out, Like I
Speaker 2: fucking hate him, and I'm like, you're gonna be sad.
Speaker 4: He was correct. So I'll say the French dip was good.
Speaker 2: What they're the famous thing is a sour cream and
Speaker 2: onion martini.
Speaker 4: So that's what I got. My face is shocked. It
Speaker 4: wasn't good at all.
Speaker 2: What is in it? But they give you a few
Speaker 2: chips on the side. It's just like disgusting. I don't
Speaker 2: know what else to say, but it's just not good.
Speaker 2: And then they have like a tomato one, but I
Speaker 2: was like too scared to try it because of that.
Speaker 2: So I got like a their version of a porn
Speaker 2: star martini, which was very good.
Speaker 4: Those are good. I like porn stars. Those are really good. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I love passion fruit. Yeah, passion fruit.
Speaker 2: We got lops. I mean, the lobster roll was fine. Again,
Speaker 2: I've the the French dip was fine. I truly would
Speaker 2: rather have an Italian beef from Pertillo's for twelve dollars
Speaker 2: like it just yeah, because the sandwich was I think
Speaker 2: forty like this little lobstros twice. It's not like it
Speaker 2: wasn't it was probably a two hundred fifty dollars meal.
Speaker 4: Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of like where I've gone that's
Speaker 1: been like a celebrity place that's actually been good. Like
Speaker 1: I remember back in the day going to mister Chow's
Speaker 1: in New York and thinking it was really good. The
Speaker 1: food was really good.
Speaker 2: But I like Hillstone, Like there's things I'm also not
Speaker 2: I eat fast food, so it's not like I'm that
Speaker 2: hard like I like high end food, I like fancy food.
Speaker 4: I respect the culinary art.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also I'm like really happy with pretty
Speaker 2: bad food. So I'm like, I know how to have
Speaker 2: a good time, so for me to be like this, Okay.
Speaker 2: So the caesar salad did come with bagel croutons and
Speaker 2: it had balls of cream cheese that was kind of
Speaker 2: hard on that side, so that was like interesting, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then we had fries which were not good, and
Speaker 2: then gries you're messing up fries. They were like two dark.
Speaker 2: I just really didn't like it. The worst stratush sauce
Speaker 2: was good. Oh and then they take the a zoo
Speaker 2: like the brown gravy sauce to be fancy and they
Speaker 2: pour it into a crystal from really high up, so
Speaker 2: it's this like brown hot liquid or ask right, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, none of us need this.
Speaker 4: They're doing like a fancy like cocktail pour on like gravy. Yeah, funny.
Speaker 2: The font is great, I mean, the service was great,
Speaker 2: Like the guy at the front was so hot or
Speaker 2: bart like, everyone was really cute and nice and it
Speaker 2: looked great and I loved the vibes but I did.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's because I built it.
Speaker 2: Up.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes I think it's that and because Taylor's there
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what is going on?
Speaker 4: What what's so special about this place? But I'm so rightful.
Speaker 2: Allie got a reservation and I also I didn't tell
Speaker 2: her I didn't love it. We got one more app
Speaker 2: I feel like like, I feel like we got one
Speaker 2: more thing. But no, that might be it. Maybe I
Speaker 2: should have stuck with oysters or gotten a steak or something.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but if you're known for the dip,
Speaker 2: like the French dip, I don't know, but maybe French dip.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I used to serve it at a restaurant. I
Speaker 1: couldn't tell you. Is it like roast beef? Yeah, it's yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like roast and I like horse radish on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, okay, but interesting.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm grateful. We had a great time. I
Speaker 2: took a pen. There was also a guy came in
Speaker 2: and he was pretty attractive with like a woman and
Speaker 2: they go, sorry, kitchen clothes, dude, are you know, total polite,
Speaker 2: no attitude, no, like nothing. I was there watching he
Speaker 2: leaves for a minute, comes back, and I could tell
Speaker 2: he was pissed, and he goes to the bartender and
Speaker 2: has like stern words and I could tell. So then
Speaker 2: him and the door guy are talking and I'm listening.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what happened, guys, And basically he came
Speaker 2: in and goes, this is bullshit. I played baseball for
Speaker 2: the team in Atlanta, and it's like the Braves.
Speaker 4: Okay, Braves.
Speaker 2: But he's like, and the last time we came, they
Speaker 2: kept the kitchen open. This is fucking bullshit. And it's like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: this isn't gonna get you going, and you're probably like,
Speaker 2: your date's probably drying up.
Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, And also I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's just like one hundreds of guys in the in
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball, Like if you're a.
Speaker 4: Yankee, that's one thing.
Speaker 2: No. They said someone from the Giants tried to get
Speaker 2: in and they were like, you lost, bro, And I
Speaker 2: go going out to dinner after a loss is disgusting,
Speaker 2: and the door guy goes, listen, we're not We're not
Speaker 2: in Oklahoma.
Speaker 4: No one gives a shit. I go, amen, Oh.
Speaker 1: My gosh, wait, as of this episode coming out, I'm
Speaker 1: going to see Yukon versus USC women's basketball.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, that will be pretty fun. Right are
Speaker 4: you flying for it? Where are you going? No, it's
Speaker 4: here in La. They're coming here.
Speaker 2: Whoa.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to see Ice.
Speaker 1: And like, uh, you know my friend so like mentors
Speaker 1: this player on the UKO women's basketball team who I've
Speaker 1: known since she was like twelve.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to see her.
Speaker 1: And I'm excited to see some women's basketball. I'm not
Speaker 1: very sporty. This is a big thing. I went and
Speaker 1: got tickets on my own. You Oh my god, wait,
Speaker 1: but are your friends coming? She's coming? But she sits
Speaker 1: with the family. Oh, she sits with the families. So
Speaker 1: I'm going to see her about Like I'm a go
Speaker 1: separate but really excited.
Speaker 4: I'm excited. What else is up?
Speaker 1: Like, I have nothing. It's not vaining in La for
Speaker 1: five days. We have nothing, truly.
Speaker 2: I've been recuperating from my Manhattan Monday last week.
Speaker 4: So, like I'm older, it's taken a while.
Speaker 1: When you sometimes have a night where you get so
Speaker 1: fucked up and you're just like, this is actually going
Speaker 1: to take a few days.
Speaker 4: Like I'm struggling. I'm like looking at my calendar.
Speaker 2: I mean I did two spin classes on Sunday, which
Speaker 2: is psycho in a day in a day. Well, because
Speaker 2: my friend goes to cycle Bar. She's listening and she's
Speaker 2: like she's been wanting me to go, and she's like,
Speaker 2: it's Taylor, It'll be free, just please and how to
Speaker 2: measure it?
Speaker 4: Okay, I will say I had a great time.
Speaker 2: The music was great, the teacher is awesome, Like she
Speaker 2: was really really good, and I enjoy it. Was like
Speaker 2: temperature wise cooler, like Soul Cycle gets really hot. But
Speaker 2: I would say Cycle Bar is less cult like and
Speaker 2: more just like a workout in people coming together, and
Speaker 2: in soul I've feel like, I mean, yeah, I signed
Speaker 2: up a six days in advance the moment it opens,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I feel spiritually connected and I just like
Speaker 2: love it.
Speaker 4: It's your church, it is your temple, is the other
Speaker 4: thing I.
Speaker 2: Liked at Like for Soul Cycle, we have the weights
Speaker 2: on our side, but you have to get the weights
Speaker 2: from the frost, Like you have to fight for your
Speaker 2: life to get a pair of fives.
Speaker 4: That's what it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's plenty of threes and eights with the fives,
Speaker 2: like depending on what class and so that stress. I
Speaker 2: don't like and there the bar is like in the bike,
Speaker 2: but I just it's more dark, it's more sexy. At Soul.
Speaker 2: It's just like a different vibe. But I cycle bar
Speaker 2: and I would go back again. I want it, Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm trying to get to three hundred classes by
Speaker 2: the end of the year, so definitely not this year.
Speaker 4: I have like a lot of work to do. Oh
Speaker 4: my gosh. But because I.
Speaker 2: Didn't know how I would like it or not, I
Speaker 2: still kept my five PM Soul cycle class.
Speaker 4: And then attended and then attended it me I mean.
Speaker 2: And then went to the corner store. So I was hungry.
Speaker 2: I was ready to fucking eat, you know. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then it didn't do it for you.
Speaker 1: That sucks when you're like and like, we save up
Speaker 1: all day for a great dinner, explos great. If we
Speaker 1: just went out to eat and like fell into that place,
Speaker 1: I would have maybe been like, oh, this was good.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, but it was a build up. There was a
Speaker 2: build up where you can't get reservations. It's so hard.
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe she got reservations. I was like so excited,
Speaker 2: you know. It was like her and her boyfriend are
Speaker 2: watching SVU from season one, on, they're like seven or
Speaker 2: eight right now.
Speaker 1: Did you see anybody famous? Obviously you would have said,
Speaker 1: I think if you saw anybody famously.
Speaker 2: Because we were at the bar and it was actually
Speaker 2: quite like. We weren't in the main dining room, but
Speaker 2: it was towards the end of the night. Our reservation
Speaker 2: was at nine. Oh yeah, So it was like pretty
Speaker 2: chill and totally my vibe. And then I felt stupid
Speaker 2: for how much time I thought about my outfit because
Speaker 2: it was just a bar, but I was like, oh.
Speaker 4: It's gonna be fair. I don't want to look this
Speaker 4: or that. However, Wow, it's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh as a little Esther, I've been having fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I opened for a Little Esther on a Friday. Oh
Speaker 2: you did, yeah, at the City Winery.
Speaker 4: It was cute with those who don't know.
Speaker 2: She's like a comedian actress but podcaster trash Tuesday. But
Speaker 2: we went to elementary, junior, high, and high school.
Speaker 1: Together, and you were in Pippin together. No, not Pippin Godspell, Godspell. Sorry, sorry,
Speaker 1: but I shot my shot.
Speaker 2: There's not very many people that can say that they
Speaker 2: have someone that's disconnected to so much of their life,
Speaker 2: like our parents live a mile apart.
Speaker 1: It's crazy and you guys like, yeah, you guys grew
Speaker 1: up to basically do the same thing.
Speaker 4: It's really wild and you're both like successful. It's cool.
Speaker 4: So it's nice.
Speaker 2: It's comfort like we don't see each other often, but
Speaker 2: it's just like comforting.
Speaker 4: I don't know, well, I love that.
Speaker 1: I think we should get started only because this episode
Speaker 1: is jumbo sized really quickly before we get going. Please, uh,
Speaker 1: don't forget to get your orders in. You have to
Speaker 1: order by December twelfth if you want to get anything.
Speaker 1: Bye Bye Christmas. We have our new shirts up. I
Speaker 1: got mine that says Louise and Louis and Lewis and Louise.
Speaker 2: And Low and I'm still waiting for mine because I
Speaker 2: never responded with my size or address.
Speaker 4: So I love it.
Speaker 1: It's really it's it's one of those nice soft T
Speaker 1: shirts and these shirts are great the it's a conversation
Speaker 1: starter and it's it's like merch for those of you
Speaker 1: that know the pod and love the pod. There's also
Speaker 1: a few of our Christmas ornaments those are up there, discounted.
Speaker 1: There's a few do you have children Detective T shirts
Speaker 1: left that are up there discounted and a few other
Speaker 1: SVU TMU little goodies that you could, you know, use
Speaker 1: for stocking stuffers or anything. So get on over to
Speaker 1: that's messed Up live dot com that has our shop link,
Speaker 1: and let's get started, all right, guys.
Speaker 4: Buckle the fuck up. This one is dark as hell.
Speaker 4: And I regret it. I regret it.
Speaker 2: I watch shit for pleasure and I texted I thank
Speaker 2: you guys immediate like this. We need to get this
Speaker 2: guy because he's such a good actor. Sorry, and then
Speaker 2: now I regret it fully. I can't believe we have
Speaker 2: to do this. I can't believe I had to do
Speaker 2: the crimes. This is a nightmare.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's also on the heels of the last episode.
Speaker 1: Which had a very harrowing true crime, and I'm not
Speaker 1: looking forward to this week's true crimes.
Speaker 2: But also be a peek behind the curtain. We're recording
Speaker 2: this Tuesday, November fourth. This aired November fourth, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4: Oh, creepy four years later. This feels so recent.
Speaker 1: It's season twenty three, but you know these s few
Speaker 1: seasons creep up on us, So it's season twenty three.
Speaker 1: This episode is they'd already disappeared episode seven, we open
Speaker 1: on a young woman being thrown out of a coffee
Speaker 1: shop onto the sidewalk. She's like, I was just getting
Speaker 1: changed in then I was gonna buy a coffee and
Speaker 1: another girl she is waiting for her on the street.
Speaker 4: And this girl is like.
Speaker 1: Jones in you know, She's like, a coffee's not really
Speaker 1: what I need right now, Like.
Speaker 4: She's, you know, she needs drugs.
Speaker 1: And the girl that just came out of the coffee
Speaker 1: shop is like, I'm gonna hook you up tonight.
Speaker 4: They walk down the street, guys are cat calling them.
Speaker 1: SVU has like generic sort of hip hop, like I
Speaker 1: always wonder where they get this sort of hip hop
Speaker 1: that no one's ever heard to play, like for the music,
Speaker 1: and then coffee girl sits withdrawal girl down and goes,
Speaker 1: I gotta get my coat and I got a couple
Speaker 1: of dates. And she's like, watch your back, baby, it's
Speaker 1: heartless out there tonight. I mean foreshadowing we're never gonna
Speaker 1: see anything anybody having a great day on SVU, but
Speaker 1: she's foreshadowing that it's not great out on these streets.
Speaker 1: The coffee girl, coffee shop girl whose name is Tanya,
Speaker 1: leaves her there the other girl and keeps walking. She
Speaker 1: meets up with Daria, who hands her a colorful backpack,
Speaker 1: but when she opens it, it's filled with snacks and
Speaker 1: she's less than thrilled. She wants cash, and she's like,
Speaker 1: can I have some money. I'll promise I'll pay you back.
Speaker 1: It's not even for me, it's for a friend. And
Speaker 1: Daria's not having it. And then Tanya goes, have you
Speaker 1: heard from Mom? So she and Daria are sisters, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like Mom is not really mother of the Year.
Speaker 1: They don't hear from her. She doesn't really know what's
Speaker 1: up with her own kids. And Daria is worried about Tanya.
Speaker 1: She's like, you know you're sleeping in hallways. It's not safe.
Speaker 1: Why don't you come back with me? And Tanya's like,
Speaker 1: to your dorm? I don't belong there, Like you're the
Speaker 1: smart one. Why don't you go back and steady hard?
Speaker 1: So she then takes off. She goes into this restaurant
Speaker 1: where this guy named Country is butchering some meat. And
Speaker 1: you know they're never going to show you somebody butchering
Speaker 1: meat if it's not for a reason. And this is
Speaker 1: a restaurant where she stores her coat and country's like
Speaker 1: you got to eat something, and she's like I have
Speaker 1: a date and she's like he can wait, and so
Speaker 1: then hard cut to like, you know, it's like it's
Speaker 1: it's all like all right, life is on the street.
Speaker 1: It's hard, but she's getting by. She's got a place
Speaker 1: to store a coat. This guy's maybe gonna give her
Speaker 1: a free dinner. And then it's like smash cut to
Speaker 1: her running along some dark, abandoned street, freaked out.
Speaker 4: She ducks behind a dumpster.
Speaker 1: She calls Daria and says he raped me and choked
Speaker 1: me and tried to kill me. She says, I want
Speaker 1: to come stay with you. I'll get out the drugs.
Speaker 1: I promise, but then she's interrupted by someone grabbing her,
Speaker 1: pulling her upwards, covering her mouth that she screams, and
Speaker 1: you hear a voice go scream all you want.
Speaker 4: Nobody cares. It's really creepy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And then we cut to the precinct where
Speaker 1: Finn and Liver having a little morning chat at the
Speaker 1: coffee machine, talking some light shit about McGrath when they
Speaker 1: hear a woman yelling it's Daria. She's frantically shouting all
Speaker 1: these details about Tanya's message to Rollin's this Uni brought
Speaker 1: her in.
Speaker 4: He's like, she jumped in front of my car, yelling
Speaker 4: about rape.
Speaker 1: And then they go Daria follow us, and then they
Speaker 1: cut to the credits, which is a weird stopping point,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna let them go with it because maybe
Speaker 1: it's like they ran out of time. So top of
Speaker 1: act one, Daria's playing the voicemail for Rollins and Benson.
Speaker 1: It's exactly what we heard, only Daria didn't listen to
Speaker 1: it until that morning. She's like, I was studying and
Speaker 1: when Tanya calls me, it's usually for drug money. I
Speaker 1: last saw her last night in East Harlem. She hangs around,
Speaker 1: she's homeless and she's a survival sex worker.
Speaker 4: And then she explains that their mom.
Speaker 1: Took off last spring Tanya started partying with the wrong people,
Speaker 1: and Benson promises, like, We're gonna do everything we can
Speaker 1: and ask for Tanya's contacts.
Speaker 4: So now they're at.
Speaker 1: City Haven, which is I think like a shelter of
Speaker 1: sorts or a it could be like a home, and
Speaker 1: they're speaking to an employee and she's shocked that the
Speaker 1: NYPD cares about a missing on how sex worker you know,
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, I'm surprised you guys are even here.
Speaker 1: And then she's like, you got to go talk to
Speaker 1: Snowflake and Missy and one says, I haven't seen her
Speaker 1: in a while, and the other says, well, maybe she
Speaker 1: went away with a date. They take you away sometimes.
Speaker 1: And Velasco he is extremely he's like at peak in
Speaker 1: this episode, like everything he says, I'm like shut up.
Speaker 1: Like he goes, you know, her dealer, And then she says,
Speaker 1: you should go talk to Beauty.
Speaker 4: She might be over unpleasant.
Speaker 1: So Beauty is Tanya's friend who was in rough shape
Speaker 1: the night before, the girl she was with. She says,
Speaker 1: someday the whole world smells like cat pee, and you know,
Speaker 1: ain't that the truth?
Speaker 4: They tell her.
Speaker 1: Daria is really worried about her sister, and she's like, yeah, duh,
Speaker 1: she's always worried. She keeps showing up here bringing your
Speaker 1: snacks and gatorade like she's on some kind of outward
Speaker 1: bound trip, which I kind of thought.
Speaker 4: Was funny, Like the sister's in college. She's like, what
Speaker 4: am I gonna do?
Speaker 1: I don't really have cash to give you, but like,
Speaker 1: here's some kind bars you know, and then Velasco goes,
Speaker 1: who'd you two go on dates together? Sometimes meet anyone weird.
Speaker 1: It's like, dude, do you think it's mostly cool dudes?
Speaker 1: Anyone weird? And she goes, they're all weird, and she says,
Speaker 1: I taught Tanya how to survive though. Don't go with
Speaker 1: drunks they take too long, and stay away from nerdy
Speaker 1: white guys. They're always the psychos. Wow, she really nails
Speaker 1: it season twenty three. They fucking are like literally nail.
Speaker 4: On the head.
Speaker 1: Stay away from the nerdy white guys. They're always the psychos.
Speaker 1: I say that as someone married to a nerdy white guy,
Speaker 1: but without the manual dexterity to commit murder. Okay, So
Speaker 1: she explains to them how she last saw Tanya headed
Speaker 1: to Countries to get her coat. They were supposed to
Speaker 1: meet up, but she never showed. Beauty didn't text her.
Speaker 1: She figured when Tanya starts flying, she doesn't land for
Speaker 1: a while, and then Beauty goes, stay in heaven as
Speaker 1: long as you can, That's what I say.
Speaker 4: So like, if you're high, stay high.
Speaker 1: It's better than like facing the reality of I think
Speaker 1: their day to day. So at Countries, he's worried about Tanya.
Speaker 1: This guy lets the girls stash their shit with him
Speaker 1: because they have no homes, they have nowhere to keep
Speaker 1: their stuff, and then he gives them the backpack, like
Speaker 1: she dropped this off last night. They show it to
Speaker 1: Dary at the precinct and she's like, yes, this is
Speaker 1: the one I gave her last night. Unfortunately, no one
Speaker 1: has seen Tanya, but they're not giving up. Just then,
Speaker 1: Missy and Snowflake show up. They tell the cops they
Speaker 1: haven't heard from Tanya, but dot dot dot Beauty is
Speaker 1: now missing.
Speaker 4: Uh oh.
Speaker 2: With these names, they'll sound like horses, like you could
Speaker 2: be talking about a stable of horses.
Speaker 1: Snowflake and Beauty are exactly yeah, yeah, Snowflake is a
Speaker 1: Snowflake is a gorgeous white horse. Benson and Alaska now
Speaker 1: are getting the story from missing Snowflake and they're all
Speaker 1: hanging out. Beauty went to score, they said, but she
Speaker 1: never came back and it's been four hours, and normally
Speaker 1: they wouldn't think anything of it, but with Tanya also missing,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, maybe she's on a date, and
Speaker 1: they're like, no, she would not go on a date
Speaker 1: without her bag.
Speaker 2: It's like she's let people be sex workers and do
Speaker 2: drugs so then they're safer. Yeah, Like it's it sucks
Speaker 2: that you have to be in such the darkness to
Speaker 2: do these things.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 2: I was like it may really be more dangerous, Like
Speaker 2: let the ship be legal so everyone could be safe.
Speaker 1: I know. I was literally thinking to myself, like I
Speaker 1: wish there was like an app, a tracker for people
Speaker 1: that are in the like maybe there is, like so
Speaker 1: that it's like if you're not, you have to check
Speaker 1: in with like certain people are connected to your network
Speaker 1: and you have to check in every few hours and
Speaker 1: if you don't, you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 1: wish someone would develop the technology for this, but people
Speaker 1: don't care about these.
Speaker 4: People, so that's probably not been invented. But you know
Speaker 4: what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like they hate it when it's safe. That's why
Speaker 2: everyone hates OnlyFans. They're like these bitches making money and
Speaker 2: being safe in their home and choosing who they work.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's why it makes people so fucking mad.
Speaker 2: It's like they want the like these women to not
Speaker 2: feel safe. It's so sad.
Speaker 1: I saw the most the funniest video of this, like
Speaker 1: conservative blondie trying to tell these like four only fans
Speaker 1: girlies like about how they're worth more than five dollars
Speaker 1: a month and why are you debasing yourself? And like
Speaker 1: all you're doing is telling men that all you are
Speaker 1: boobs and a vagina. And the girls are all like,
Speaker 1: that's your opinion, and they're all just like honking their
Speaker 1: own boobs and being.
Speaker 4: Like we love it. Like and it's so funny.
Speaker 1: They're clowning her so hard, and she thinks she's so
Speaker 1: right because she's just like a little Christian little a
Speaker 1: little Christian right winger girl.
Speaker 4: It's it's such a funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because her Christian male counterparts really respect her.
Speaker 4: They really respect her. They want the best for her.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, they want her in leadership. Okay,
Speaker 1: so they're like, there's no way she wanted a date.
Speaker 1: She would not leave without her bag, like she went
Speaker 1: she didn't want her dealer going through it, so she
Speaker 1: went to grab some drugs like she's not on a date.
Speaker 1: They dump out the bag. It's a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: We've got like full bottle illusterine. We got a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff in there. And then there's like a little
Speaker 1: mirror and they're like that was her. Grandma's like, don't
Speaker 1: lose that, and then the girls leave. Velasco sums everything up,
Speaker 1: two girls in two days, and Benson goes, I don't
Speaker 1: have a good feeling about this, and she's like, check
Speaker 1: the cell phone records, and he's got Beauty's phone, and
Speaker 1: then he also tells She also tells Alasco check with
Speaker 1: the local precinct. Let's make sure they didn't ignore any
Speaker 1: reports of missing women. I'll I'll tell you right how
Speaker 1: they did. They absolutely did. You don't even need to
Speaker 1: go over there. They did so at the twenty seventh precinct.
Speaker 1: Velasco and Rollins are like waiting there and this young
Speaker 1: guy comes out and goes, sorry to keep you. My
Speaker 1: sergeant says he's still busy, and they're like, we'll wait,
Speaker 1: and he's like, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but
Speaker 1: he left for the night.
Speaker 4: What kind of games are we playing here?
Speaker 1: You're just making two valuable detectives sit at your precinct
Speaker 1: and wait for you while you've already fucked off and
Speaker 1: gone home. The UNI is like, well, a detective told
Speaker 1: me to give you this file, but it didn't come
Speaker 1: from her, and it's missing women from the neighborhood for
Speaker 1: the last few years, street workers addicts. He says, nobody
Speaker 1: anybody is really looking for and the file says nhi,
Speaker 1: and the cop goes, oh, yeah, that's how slang for
Speaker 1: no humans involved.
Speaker 4: Gross.
Speaker 1: Gross, Like come on, I just wish this show wasn't
Speaker 1: so grounded in reality.
Speaker 4: At times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about the fantasy like criminal justice system
Speaker 2: of it all, but then they get real.
Speaker 1: This is like no real cause it's like you could
Speaker 1: also just ignore these cases, like we know you're going
Speaker 1: to anyway, you don't have to on top of it,
Speaker 1: put like a cruel piece of slang to label it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like just insult to
Speaker 1: injury so velasco and Rollins looks stunned by the cruelty.
Speaker 4: The file has a bunch of photos in it.
Speaker 1: It's maybe ten girls, and a couple of them look
Speaker 1: a lot like Tanya and Beauty, and Rollins is like, wow,
Speaker 1: he's got a type. And Philosokho's like h and She's like,
Speaker 1: we might be looking at a cereal So now at
Speaker 1: the precinct, we're in the huddle, we're around the whiteboard.
Speaker 1: Photos are taped up. We've got three more missing girls.
Speaker 1: I guess out of those ten, some of them they
Speaker 1: found or whatever, but three of them are are missing.
Speaker 1: No clue who reported the missing. The phone numbers that
Speaker 1: they left when they reported don't work anymore. The girls
Speaker 1: were all eighteen and over, so the cops can't do
Speaker 1: much because they're adults, and no one ever really came
Speaker 1: back to the precinct, like following up or looking for them.
Speaker 4: So Velaska thinks, you know.
Speaker 1: These women could be from out of state and they
Speaker 1: went home and lives like or they could be dead,
Speaker 1: you putts. So now they're at the Emmy's office and
Speaker 1: he's a big part of this episode. This is Emmy
Speaker 1: Abel Truman. He's the white male dead pan Melinda, and
Speaker 1: they're looking for victims and he's like, oh, like, I
Speaker 1: have these two cases from the Bronx from ten years ago,
Speaker 1: from when I first started over here. I call them
Speaker 1: my Christmas Angels. And it's like, Buddy Rudnick is pretty recent.
Speaker 1: He's still pretty recent, Like, let's chill with the cute
Speaker 1: nicknames for your victims that are on the table, like
Speaker 1: the Christmas Angels. He's like, I was with my daughter
Speaker 1: a Rockefeller Center when they got called in, it's like,
Speaker 1: what a glorious Christmas memory. And they're like commenting on
Speaker 1: how young looking all.
Speaker 4: That the Rockets have to audition every year.
Speaker 2: Shut up, Yeah, I watched her YouTube and this girl
Speaker 2: has been doing like six or seven years, but she
Speaker 2: has you have to audition every single year.
Speaker 1: So these girls that he's got pictures of up on
Speaker 1: his little screen there, they look eighteen or nineteen, he says,
Speaker 1: probably drug addicts on the fringes, both strangled and raped,
Speaker 1: not idd yet, like, so there's no idea for these girls.
Speaker 1: And he's not sure it's the same guy, and they're
Speaker 1: like why not, and he goes, well, only one of
Speaker 1: the victims was partially eviscerated, meaning her liver and her
Speaker 1: intestines were removed, and uh good, he says, for no reason,
Speaker 1: as if there's ever a great reason. But they said
Speaker 1: he was a first timer because it was crudely done.
Speaker 1: He used a butcher's knife and a meat cleaver. So
Speaker 1: that's obviously making the cops think of country. This man
Speaker 1: who works at like a barbecue meat joint, I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's barbecue. He's chopping up huge
Speaker 1: meat things and he's from South Carolina, we find out,
Speaker 1: so I'm putting things together. But they're at his restaurant
Speaker 1: now and they're all packing up his knives, like taking
Speaker 1: them with a warrant, and he's like, what's going on
Speaker 1: And they're like, we have a warrant and I'm like,
Speaker 1: based on what that he owns knives and he knew
Speaker 1: the girls like this feels like I don't know how
Speaker 1: they got this warrant.
Speaker 4: But they woke up.
Speaker 1: They definitely got a judge in the middle of a
Speaker 1: poker game, and he tells them his story. He's like,
Speaker 1: I moved up to New York from South Carolina ten
Speaker 1: years ago. I went back down home for a stretch
Speaker 1: when my dad died. And Rollins is like, oh, and
Speaker 1: also when you arrested, so you could do jail time
Speaker 1: and he's like yes, And then I came up here
Speaker 1: after him. I'd served my time and I opened this
Speaker 1: restaurant three years ago. And is that when you got
Speaker 1: fly with the girls. And he's like, I like to
Speaker 1: help them out. They're good people. And then they're like,
Speaker 1: come downtown with us. So now they've got country in
Speaker 1: cement room bars and he's telling them I'm a good guy,
Speaker 1: which I have to tell I don't. I'm not getting
Speaker 1: a guilty vibe from country. But also don't say you're
Speaker 1: a good guy, because it's always like bad guys that
Speaker 1: say that. And then they bring up, well, what about
Speaker 1: this assault that you went to jail for, like assault
Speaker 1: with a baseball bat?
Speaker 4: And he's like, I was protecting myself.
Speaker 1: Spartanburg PD has always had it out for me, and
Speaker 1: I believe it. The cops being against a black man
Speaker 1: in Spartanburg, South Carolina. I buy a story and he
Speaker 1: goes Sunday night, I was closing up, but they've got
Speaker 1: him on street cameras in his station wagon going up
Speaker 1: Third Avenue, and then they've got him going north at
Speaker 1: eleven pm with a person in the car, and then
Speaker 1: thirty minutes later coming down Second Avenue all alone. So
Speaker 1: what's up, dog? We're tearing apart your restaurant and your
Speaker 1: car right now? Are we going to find Tanya in
Speaker 1: Beauty's Blood? And he's like, you're not gonna find shit.
Speaker 1: I look out for these girls. And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: you have three months left on your parole. You lied
Speaker 1: to us. That's enough. To send you back to prison.
Speaker 1: What did he lie about?
Speaker 4: Did he? I mean, I guess he lied about going.
Speaker 1: Back down to South Carolina because his dad died, and
Speaker 1: it was also to do prison. That feels like not
Speaker 1: a lie, that is like a violation of parole. But
Speaker 1: they're trying to scare him and it's working. He's very
Speaker 1: frightened that they're going to send him back to prison,
Speaker 1: and they're leveraging that, and he's like, okay, okay, listen.
Speaker 1: I took Tanya to a date uptown. She didn't want
Speaker 1: to take the bus, so I dropped her off. She
Speaker 1: said the guy was a regular, always paid, But I
Speaker 1: didn't see the guy.
Speaker 4: I just dropped her off and I left.
Speaker 1: And he's like, Tanya's gonna pop up soon, and when
Speaker 1: she does, you're all gonna eat ribs with us and
Speaker 1: apologize to me. And they're like, give us the address
Speaker 1: where you dropped her. Why haven't they like tracked her
Speaker 1: phone call to Daria, Like they haven't tracked, Like we
Speaker 1: were taking us a long time to get to Inwood
Speaker 1: in the Bronx, where we could just be like checking
Speaker 1: cell phone tower pings and finding out where this girl
Speaker 1: called from. But anyway, we've just instead decided to terrorize
Speaker 1: this restaurant owner who helped sex workers.
Speaker 4: But now they're an inn wo Belasco and Rollins or
Speaker 4: checking it out.
Speaker 2: I do love that helping sex workers is suspicious too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, you set up a coat rack to lure
Speaker 1: them in here, like it's crazy he does have, Like
Speaker 1: it's it's such a sweet, like small act of kindness,
Speaker 1: just like have a coat rack for these girls like
Speaker 1: in his restaurant so that they can like leave jackets,
Speaker 1: like we know New York. It's like when you leave
Speaker 1: New York, you got a dressed for like ten types
Speaker 1: of weather. You've got six bags with you in case
Speaker 1: you have to go from day to night. And it's
Speaker 1: nice that he does this. I wish I had a
Speaker 1: fucking place to hang up a bag half the time.
Speaker 4: When I was in New York. So they're in Inwood, it's.
Speaker 1: The middle of the day, they're checking stuff out, they're
Speaker 1: near the they're near the area where they got she
Speaker 1: got dropped off, and there's uh like kind of an
Speaker 1: abandoned warehouse. And then they run into these skateboarding kids
Speaker 1: and this one kid, has there ever been a non
Speaker 1: abandoned warehouse. That's what I'd like to know. Are there
Speaker 1: any functional warehouses happening in New York? Show me one,
Speaker 1: especially it is city where like real estate is so expensive.
Speaker 1: It's like, let's get rid of these warehouses, put up
Speaker 1: a fucking like, you know, an art space or.
Speaker 4: Something, which I'm sure some of them are.
Speaker 1: But anyway, they run into these skateboarding kids and this
Speaker 1: one kid starts talking to them and goes, oh, are
Speaker 1: you guys looking for the vampire? And they're like, we're
Speaker 1: vampire slayers and apparently this vampire lives right inside the
Speaker 1: boarded up warehouse building right behind them, and he explains.
Speaker 1: This kid explains how vampires work to them, which is
Speaker 1: like very cute, and they're like, yup, Sunday night, he
Speaker 1: was in there.
Speaker 4: We had our stakes ready.
Speaker 1: And that's like so crazy to me that these kids
Speaker 1: all are like so intuitive that they're like, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: like a freaky creature in there and we need to
Speaker 1: kill him. But they show they show him a picture
Speaker 1: of like Country's car. He doesn't recognize it. And then
Speaker 1: they show a picture of Tanya, like have you seen her?
Speaker 1: And he's like maybe, and then he's like I gotta
Speaker 1: go and he gathers up his vampire slayer crew and
Speaker 1: they bounce and Rollins says, told you we might get lucky,
Speaker 1: and Blesco goes af to you, Buffy. But it is
Speaker 1: really funny because they basically get out of their car
Speaker 1: and they're like, how are we gonna find anything? And
Speaker 1: then the first kid they run into goes, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a vampire in that warehouse. I get it. We don't
Speaker 1: have time to do a lot of it. It's a
Speaker 1: forty two minute episode. But they found a useful child
Speaker 1: very quickly, so they break the lock off this boarded
Speaker 1: up building and go inside. I mean, they don't have
Speaker 1: a warrant. If you think something's really in there, get
Speaker 1: back up. It's it's freaky. It's giving me sounds of
Speaker 1: the lamps because they've got their guns out and their flashlights.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: But if it's abandon and no one owns it, the
Speaker 2: should be in there, so I don't think they need
Speaker 2: a warrant.
Speaker 1: That's true, but it is locked, so you're opening you're
Speaker 1: cutting open a lock.
Speaker 4: But yes, yes, we got to get in there. They could.
Speaker 1: They also can always go we thought we heard a scream, right,
Speaker 1: is not what they always do, or that the.
Speaker 4: Kids felt like they were in danger, like they can yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: The kids said they saw a kid go in there. Whatever.
Speaker 1: So Rollins has ditched her chik outerwear for that sort
Speaker 1: of like swat team casual outfit that they wear sometimes,
Speaker 1: Like you know, it says police on the back. It's
Speaker 1: like kind of like it's you're like, I don't think
Speaker 1: there's anything bulletproof under there, but it looks like there
Speaker 1: could be. It's kind of cute. And then Velasco immediately
Speaker 1: clocks a smell. He's like, what is that smell? And
Speaker 1: inside it's immediately very dexter coded, like we've got jars
Speaker 1: on shelves with god knows what inside, plastic sheeting up
Speaker 1: on the walls.
Speaker 4: It's freaky.
Speaker 1: Immediately immediately, this is not a fully abandoned warehouse.
Speaker 4: Someone's been in here. Okay. When they open the door
Speaker 4: to one large room.
Speaker 1: You kind of think it's like mannequins or something, but
Speaker 1: it's a bunch of woman's dead bodies pose like it's
Speaker 1: a dinner party and done done. They're mummified. There are
Speaker 1: a lot of them. It's very gruesome. And they go
Speaker 1: into another room adjacent and they find Tanya and Beauty's
Speaker 1: bodies lying on tables with sheets covering them, like the
Speaker 1: mummification process has not begun with them because they've only
Speaker 1: been missing now for like a day or two. It
Speaker 1: is also kind of wild that this guy would go
Speaker 1: after like two girls so close back to back, but whatever,
Speaker 1: it's tragic these two friends that are like lying there
Speaker 1: dead on these tables together, so and they were literally
Speaker 1: just trying to take care of each other. Top of
Speaker 1: Act three, Benson and Finn are on the scene. They've
Speaker 1: got twelve mummified victims plus Beauty and Tanya makes fourteen.
Speaker 4: Velasco's like a called bario.
Speaker 1: So the sister knows they're putting a rush on the
Speaker 1: evidence from Beauty and Tanya because it's only been forty
Speaker 1: eight hours since their deaths, so there might be a
Speaker 1: chance that this guy left DNA.
Speaker 4: But and then Emmy Truman is there.
Speaker 1: And he's like, this is a mass fatality over time,
Speaker 1: Like these are not bodies that have naturally mummified.
Speaker 4: This was DIY.
Speaker 1: And you know, Benson's like, explain how you would DIY
Speaker 1: mummify someone?
Speaker 4: The technique he.
Speaker 1: Says, I with YouTube, you could do anything I know,
Speaker 1: truly truly read it.
Speaker 4: They've got it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, he goes, the technique hasn't changed much since
Speaker 1: the Egyptians. You remove all the art organs, salt the body,
Speaker 1: stuff it with linen, and let the desert heat do
Speaker 1: the rest. And I'm like, this is just so close
Speaker 1: after we in Egypt in Egypt, so yeah, and then
Speaker 1: she go. He goes, but this guy, he let the
Speaker 1: heaters from home depot do that part and then he
Speaker 1: put them, he said, put in a cage to keep
Speaker 1: the rats out. So I guess he had the girl's
Speaker 1: bodies like in cages to mummify them. But it's he says, well, mummification,
Speaker 1: he tells them still preserves DNA and fingerprints, so we'll
Speaker 1: see what we can find. But he also notes that
Speaker 1: this is the psycho who did this had technique that
Speaker 1: improved over time, because I think if he's also counting
Speaker 1: the girls that he found in the Bronx onto the
Speaker 1: list of girls that this guy has killed, like he's done,
Speaker 1: He's moved on from the butcher knife and he's like,
Speaker 1: everything is very meticulous, so I really doubt you're gonna
Speaker 1: find his DNA.
Speaker 4: And then Tommy alert. McGrath shows up.
Speaker 1: McGrath shows up and he's like, oh, what's that smell?
Speaker 1: And they're like, oh, he goes the I mean, he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: do you mean the smell of old wet book with
Speaker 1: a touch of cinnamon. And then he says, well, with
Speaker 1: mamma fying, there's very little scent because the bodies don't rot.
Speaker 1: And I guess because you've taken out all of the
Speaker 1: blood and organs.
Speaker 4: I don't know, and then you're drying out the flesh.
Speaker 4: I can't. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so gross, and I don't know what the
Speaker 1: cinnamon will either.
Speaker 4: This podcast, I'm not learning the problem. No, no, no, we're
Speaker 4: not learning mummification.
Speaker 2: We're not.
Speaker 4: We're not. We're simply not.
Speaker 1: But maybe he just puts a little cinnamon in the air,
Speaker 1: like he's got a glade plug in.
Speaker 4: Or something, so that he doesn't have to fully smell it.
Speaker 1: But he described Okay, this is so gross, but he
Speaker 1: describes like how the guy removed some of the organs
Speaker 1: and he said he made cuts in the back of
Speaker 1: their heads and pulled their brains out that way to
Speaker 1: keep their faces intact at which is pretty gross. And
Speaker 1: then Benson's like you can see McGrath is like losing
Speaker 1: color in his face, and she's like, you want to
Speaker 1: go talk outside, babe, And he's like clearly out of
Speaker 1: his element.
Speaker 4: So what is he gonna do? Yell, let her to
Speaker 4: solve it faster, Like yeah, yeah, yeah, weaster. The smell
Speaker 4: is disgusting because.
Speaker 2: No matter how often I've seen that episodes, I always
Speaker 2: do a rewatch right before we record. Not this one,
Speaker 2: I do. Oh yeah you really, I fully engage in
Speaker 2: what you're telling me. I'm like, wait, what, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the guy and the meat cleaver
Speaker 2: looks like, like I kind of a just disassociated.
Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, there's even though I thought to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was my idea.
Speaker 4: There's some episodes we have to. I think it's because
Speaker 4: it reminds us a lot.
Speaker 1: If you're a dexter head, this reminds us a lot
Speaker 1: of the New Blood plot line, where the guy is
Speaker 1: like keeping a museum of women, but he doesn't mummify
Speaker 1: those women. He kind of like keeps them in these cases.
Speaker 1: And maybe because they're in the middle of the fucking
Speaker 1: of state New York, they because it's cold, they stay
Speaker 1: not rotting or something, but either way.
Speaker 4: It's a similar. It's also the new Blood guy was wealthy.
Speaker 2: He had a lot of money, so he could you know,
Speaker 2: they were like whatever the air was down there and underground,
Speaker 2: Like this is obviously someone's illegally using a warehouse, right,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe he bought a warehouse, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the guy also on Dexter there was a
Speaker 1: hunting element, much like the episode Hunting Ground. He hunted
Speaker 1: them in the woods and killed or or no, he
Speaker 1: would just kill them in that room.
Speaker 4: But then didn't he kill one girl in the woods
Speaker 4: somebody get out of the room.
Speaker 2: Well, he would shoot them in the woods with a trank,
Speaker 2: drag him back, assault them, and then let them out again.
Speaker 2: Oh and then their whole thing is if you want
Speaker 2: to die, you can hit the you can touch the
Speaker 2: electrical fence at the end of his property.
Speaker 4: That's right, Okay, thank you for minding.
Speaker 2: So it's like it was like a catch and release
Speaker 2: torture sitch or you know, take your own.
Speaker 4: Life ye fence.
Speaker 1: And then also a collector's situation. So it's like, really
Speaker 1: that guy was true fucking deranged. They always find new
Speaker 1: ways to up the Anti over at Dexter, but Benson
Speaker 1: and brings McGrath outside. So outside McGrath is shook and
Speaker 1: Benson tells them, well, we have this guy country and custody,
Speaker 1: and he's like, these women were butchered and then laid
Speaker 1: out like some kind of goddamn dinner party. And he
Speaker 1: goes make the case because this is evil, like as if.
Speaker 1: Benson's like, this one seems pretty chill, I'm gonna kind
Speaker 1: of slack on it, like I mean, this man and
Speaker 1: so I Velasko rolls up, like I said, sounding even
Speaker 1: more deadpan dope than usual. He's like, how's McGrath doing.
Speaker 1: I didn't see expect to seem so upset, and then
Speaker 1: he goes, I couldn't look at him, but I had
Speaker 1: to what these women went through.
Speaker 4: Benson, I know you've seen some stuff.
Speaker 1: And she's like, Babe, I've been in the game for
Speaker 1: twenty plus years and I've never seen anything.
Speaker 4: So fucked up.
Speaker 1: So it's nice to see season twenty three Bens and
Speaker 1: still being like fuck. But even though she's seeing stuff
Speaker 1: that's so fucked she still holds her own like all
Speaker 1: of her terror and like, oh my god, I've never
Speaker 1: seen and this is like in her eyes, she doesn't
Speaker 1: like sweat or throw up or start hyperventilating, Like she's
Speaker 1: just kind of like, Okay, this is new, but she's
Speaker 1: gonna you know, and she goes listen velasco you never
Speaker 1: get used to it, to any of it. So now
Speaker 1: they're back talking a country who I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: is actually buying as the fucking purp here like they're
Speaker 1: showing in pictures of the victim. He's like, they all
Speaker 1: disappeared since you've moved up to this area. And in
Speaker 1: the little slide show of the girl's faces, they've also
Speaker 1: included the mummy pictures and guess what country doesn't love
Speaker 1: those pictures.
Speaker 4: He's like horrified. He's like, what the fuck is this?
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, this this is what we found,
Speaker 1: and you're our only suspect, and if you've got anything
Speaker 1: to tell us, you better cough it up.
Speaker 4: And then he.
Speaker 1: Recognizes one of the girls. He's like, whoa, that's Nissi Shenie.
Speaker 1: Like I drove her to a date too, same place
Speaker 1: as Tanya, and like he never mentioned to the cops
Speaker 1: I've driven girls there before.
Speaker 4: Wow, And why would he trust the cops?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna They would probably be like, you're the pimp,
Speaker 2: why are you taking them?
Speaker 4: We'll arrest you. Yeah right.
Speaker 1: But the murderer also like, why are you having girls?
Speaker 1: Always dropped off in the same place, like he's been
Speaker 1: doing this for ten years. It seems like he would
Speaker 1: have been caught by now. But again, no one wants
Speaker 1: the girls. We have the Long Island killer who kept
Speaker 1: on killing sex work. That's forever so true. I think
Speaker 1: there was just a development in that. I think there
Speaker 1: was just a development in that case because he wanted
Speaker 1: to get tried all the victims separate, separately.
Speaker 2: They didn't allow him together. Yeah, oh okay, I think
Speaker 2: that is really new. I hope they didn't do that. Okay, cool, cool,
Speaker 2: cool cool.
Speaker 1: Let me let me just know that makes double check
Speaker 1: because that's what I was reading.
Speaker 4: Yes, single trial set, single trial set.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck you, dude, he's going to try to, like
Speaker 1: one by one, you know, get them kicked out, and
Speaker 1: it's like they're linked. Bro, you you fucked up? Like
Speaker 1: why are we even wasting the courts time? Plead guilty,
Speaker 1: go die in jail.
Speaker 4: But he's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say something, but it's like of
Speaker 2: course he's sick and it's power, right, So he's still
Speaker 2: trying to fuck with these women. He's still trying to
Speaker 2: fuck with their families. He's like darkness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so of course, but I'm so glad it's a
Speaker 4: single trial. Oh my god. Yeah yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, he says, you know, I dropped me see
Speaker 1: at the same place as Tanya, and the guy she
Speaker 1: was meeting was one of the nice ones, she said,
Speaker 1: And Finn's like, stop fucking with us. You know these
Speaker 1: girls and you know what happened to them, and Country
Speaker 1: starts crying and saying I'm sorry, I'm so sorry over
Speaker 1: and over again and that like it's like they've broken him.
Speaker 1: And then knock knock, the Emmy has something for them.
Speaker 1: Back with the medical examiner Truman, he tells them all
Speaker 1: twelve of the victims that they found the mummified girls
Speaker 1: were strangled. They were all sex workers. They found frostbite marks,
Speaker 1: track marks, and one had scarring on her uterus from STDs,
Speaker 1: so they're surmising that they're all sex workers.
Speaker 4: They all had personal effects.
Speaker 1: Some of their body cavities were stuffed with their own clothing,
Speaker 1: and it's just more infhoto go on. I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: is this just disgusting detail? But no, it's like good info.
Speaker 1: So he said, we expanded the search to the tri
Speaker 1: state area, what's up Connecticut and New Jersey and to
Speaker 1: women missing in the last ten years, and they got
Speaker 1: two hits a missing New I'm like, there's only two
Speaker 1: women missing in the Tri state area in the last
Speaker 1: ten years, like what? And one is a missing New
Speaker 1: Jersey woman from six years ago, and she's basically wearing
Speaker 1: in a photo that they find of her. She's wearing
Speaker 1: like the same coat that is like with her body.
Speaker 1: And then another victim from Connecticut is idd through a
Speaker 1: charm bracelet that is on her mammified body that is
Speaker 1: engraved with her name and birthday. And that victim's name
Speaker 1: is Meredith Hart. And so the New Jersey victim sadly
Speaker 1: had no relatives on file, but the police in Enfield, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: are still trying to track down Meredith's family. The girl
Speaker 1: in New Jersey, it turns out, though, was reported missing
Speaker 1: one week after Country started his sentence in South Carolina,
Speaker 1: and Meredith went missing a year after that while he
Speaker 1: was still in prison halfway through his bid so assault
Speaker 1: with a baseball back gets you like four years in prison.
Speaker 4: Like, okay, so.
Speaker 1: Guess what if they were both taken while country was
Speaker 1: in jail, then guess what Country's not our guy. The
Speaker 1: real guy's out there and now he knows we found
Speaker 1: his hellhole. So top of the next act, McGrath is
Speaker 1: giving a press conference outside this dilapidated building where this
Speaker 1: guy's mummy. Crypt was like, I don't understand why this
Speaker 1: Tommy gives a press conference for like every single case.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's part of his I've seen some
Speaker 1: police press conferences. To me, they're rarely outside of the
Speaker 1: place where we found all the bodies, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like it's kind of wild, but it's very TV.
Speaker 1: So they're pledging to find the guy. We're working around
Speaker 1: the clock, YadA YadA. Somebody knows this killer, Benson says.
Speaker 1: They sell him coffee, they deliver his takeout, somebody works
Speaker 1: with him, and then she goes. NYPD Crime Stoppers is
Speaker 1: offering a thirty five hundred dollars reward for any information
Speaker 1: leading to the arrest.
Speaker 4: Kind of a low ball.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know what you were getting at. So
Speaker 2: I was sitting there being like, huh, it's.
Speaker 1: Thirty five one hundred dollars to a serial killer who
Speaker 1: mummified twelve women and had too ready to go, Like
Speaker 1: a serial killer that killed fourty women? Were like one
Speaker 1: month of a studio apartment rent. We'll give you that.
Speaker 1: Will that work?
Speaker 4: Do you have any info?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 4: Are you kidding? It should be like one hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: I just like, look at all the cars that you
Speaker 1: see in New York one eight hundred cop shot, right,
Speaker 1: it's like one hundred thousand dollars. I think if you
Speaker 1: have any information about an NYPD officer getting shot, but
Speaker 1: fourteen women getting murdered and mummified and sexually assaulted thirty
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars? What is the division of that? What
Speaker 1: is that three hundred dollars per woman? I mean, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I can't even I.
Speaker 2: Did it, Like, I wonder what the SV like the
Speaker 2: writers like, if it was like, oh, we don't value
Speaker 2: these people and this is a point, or if it
Speaker 2: was just like a random error or realistic like I
Speaker 2: do under because they everything they do is intentional.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so won and I just googled it so that
Speaker 1: I can correct myself. It is a ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: reward for if someone gets anyone involved in the shooting
Speaker 1: of Alice a New York police officer, and that's not
Speaker 1: even necessarily if they end up dead. Anyone that's involved
Speaker 1: in a shooting of any kind with a police officer
Speaker 1: ten thousand, but thirty five hundred for these girls.
Speaker 4: I don't I'm not, I don't get it, but I
Speaker 4: did clock it.
Speaker 1: It seemed especially it's true this episode's only from four
Speaker 1: seasons ago, Like yeah, it's not like it's season one
Speaker 1: where they're like three to five hundred dollars is like
Speaker 1: ten grand today or whatever. But anyway, now Velasco is
Speaker 1: info dumping on Finn. He's like, so, the owner of
Speaker 1: the warehouse died ten years ago. He died without a will.
Speaker 1: He owned fifteen buildings in the neighborhood. The family's in
Speaker 1: court fighting over it. They all live in Wuhan, which
Speaker 1: is like a very funny place to be like in
Speaker 1: twenty in twenty twenty one, to be like, this whole
Speaker 1: family is from the origin of COVID. Like that's like
Speaker 1: you could have said Beijing, you could have said many
Speaker 1: other like places in China, but they said Wuhan.
Speaker 4: So anyway.
Speaker 1: So then skateboarder kid Jamal comes up and he's like,
Speaker 1: I told you guys about the vampire and I love
Speaker 1: this kid. And they're like, have you seen the vampire
Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, yeah, like I've seen him before.
Speaker 4: He's white like a.
Speaker 1: Ghost, he's tough, and sometimes he's in a pickup truck
Speaker 1: and they're like, you notice anything about the truck. He's like,
Speaker 1: not really. So then they found out that they have
Speaker 1: possibly located the Connecticut victim's mother. So in the next scene,
Speaker 1: Daria is about to have the sheep pulled back to
Speaker 1: reveal her sister's body and Benson's like, Babe, you don't
Speaker 1: need to do this. We've already ided Tanya with her
Speaker 1: dental records, and Daria's like, no, I really need to
Speaker 1: see her.
Speaker 4: And then the Emmy Truman. He goes, did you bring
Speaker 4: the photo of the two of you?
Speaker 1: Like I asked, and she pulls out a framed picture
Speaker 1: of the two of them and he's like, put it
Speaker 1: down there. She puts it on a table like sort
Speaker 1: of near the body, and he tells her, I want
Speaker 1: you to look at the body very briefly and then
Speaker 1: look at the photo because that's really your sister, that's
Speaker 1: who you want to remember. And I feel like this
Speaker 1: is all like extremely thoughtful and extra mile of this emmy.
Speaker 1: Like we've seen a lot of sheets pulled back and
Speaker 1: a lot of hysterical mothers seeing like tiny kids on
Speaker 1: the table, and no one's ever suggested anything like this.
Speaker 1: It's like very not to shade Melinda or anything, but
Speaker 1: this is like a very extra mile move of this emmy,
Speaker 1: I feel. So they pull back the sheet, she cries,
Speaker 1: She runs to the frame photo and looks at it,
Speaker 1: and then she leaves, and the emmy says it's very
Speaker 1: common to insist on seeing the remains and lives, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never She's like moved. She's like, I've never seen
Speaker 1: this little photo trick before, and he goes the brain
Speaker 1: doesn't need to retain an image of a cold, traumatized body.
Speaker 1: I was trying to encourage the recall of happy memories.
Speaker 1: And there's like this moment where Live is like speechless.
Speaker 1: She touches the guy on the arm and she's like
Speaker 1: basically makes like an eye movement of I gotta go,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't say anything like she's very touched by this.
Speaker 4: Some moment, and definitely it feels like something.
Speaker 1: Even though this is definitely in the in the Graziano
Speaker 1: years of the show, wherever all the crimes are so
Speaker 1: fucking dark, that little moment kind of seems like something
Speaker 1: that would have like a bead Wong would have done
Speaker 1: something like that.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. That seems like an older
Speaker 4: thing to do.
Speaker 1: So in Connecticut, they're talking to Meredith's mom, Lois, who
Speaker 1: is played by Nina Hellman, who I recognize as an
Speaker 1: absolute legend from Wet Hot American Summer if you are,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, if you're a wet hothead like I am.
Speaker 1: She's the camp nurse Nancy, Like when they're going into town,
Speaker 1: she goes, can you get me some lube?
Speaker 4: And they're like what, She's like lube, They're my bussy.
Speaker 1: It's like the wildest character that would actually funny, such
Speaker 1: a good group costume. My sister did it in Oh Cool.
Speaker 1: My sister did it in college, and she was the beekeeper.
Speaker 1: She was the kid that never takes a shower and
Speaker 1: he runs the radio station that's like unplugged. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: we threw away her beekeeper outfit when she moved to
Speaker 1: New York. But uh, yeah, her and her friend and
Speaker 1: college used to do great group costumes. They did World
Speaker 1: ten of Bombs. One year they did Wet Hot, So fun. Anyway,
Speaker 1: her grandson is sitting there playing. He looks to be
Speaker 1: about like eight or something and lives like maybe he
Speaker 1: shouldn't be here, and Lois is like, oh, he's on
Speaker 1: the spectrum and he gets very anxious if he's away
Speaker 1: from me. But he's not listening anyway, like I'll tell
Speaker 1: him about his mother later. And then Finn says, which
Speaker 1: is kind of wild to act like he just like
Speaker 1: can't hear anything. But Finn goes, We're really sorry about Meredith,
Speaker 1: and the mom goes, well, I knew it was going
Speaker 1: to end this way. Meredith was always running off with
Speaker 1: bad boys. It started when she was fifteen. The last
Speaker 1: boy she ran off with, though, was more of a man.
Speaker 4: She says.
Speaker 1: He was a carneye. She met him at one of
Speaker 1: those town fairs, and you know, one day she took
Speaker 1: Jack to the carnival, and then she went back another
Speaker 1: day on her own, and then when the carnival closed down,
Speaker 1: she took off with this guy.
Speaker 4: And whenever I do hear Carney, I do think of
Speaker 4: leaon Real Housewives of Dallas. I don't know if you
Speaker 4: ever watched that.
Speaker 2: I never watched Dallas. When I hear Carney, I think
Speaker 2: of the wife swap episode where it was a Carnival
Speaker 2: family and I forgot the other family because obviously the
Speaker 2: opposite of Carnival and it was hard for her.
Speaker 1: Okay, back to the Mummies. All right, So we're in Connecticut.
Speaker 1: We're talking at the nurse from Wet Hot but the Mummy.
Speaker 2: Sorry to bring it up, but it is one of
Speaker 2: those you know how I love like a star when
Speaker 2: you watch a movie and you're like, oh, they're about
Speaker 2: to be a star. I'll uh like Melissa McCarthy and Bridesmaids,
Speaker 2: and I feel like that was Rachel Weiss in that movie.
Speaker 4: Like, oh, I've never seen the Mummy. You've never seen
Speaker 4: the Mummy. That's really not a movie I will ever watch. Well,
Speaker 4: I was a kid. We went as a family, but
Speaker 4: I went every part of the movie.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: I just thought it was such a big deal. I
Speaker 2: can't believe you didn't see Mummy. Like to me, that
Speaker 2: was like an event. No, we saw the Mummy and
Speaker 2: we loved the Mummy.
Speaker 4: I'm shocked.
Speaker 1: I know, I forget that The Mummy is like I
Speaker 1: think I did a Mummy escape room at the like
Speaker 1: in Hollywood once, like, but I don't.
Speaker 2: It grows in nineteen ninety nine, it grows four hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty two million worldwide.
Speaker 4: I was at the beginning.
Speaker 1: I was in college, so I was like, not going
Speaker 1: to see that many movies. I guess except on holiday breaks.
Speaker 4: I should watch it. I guess. I was like, oh,
Speaker 4: you should watch you with the kids. I think it's
Speaker 4: PG throutine.
Speaker 1: Jared was wearing he has a T shirt of the
Speaker 1: Original Mummy, and one time he was at TSA and
Speaker 1: this guy goes, yo, Original Mummy come this way.
Speaker 4: So people do love the Mummy.
Speaker 2: I really hope you like it. It's like a fun action
Speaker 2: movie with and paleontology. Archaeology, I mean archaeology doesn't have
Speaker 2: like paleontologists is just dinosaury archaeology like sexy archaeologists.
Speaker 4: That's hot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So she's telling them all about the Carnie, about how
Speaker 1: Meredith ran off with the carnival when it closed down.
Speaker 1: It's like a classic story from like the nineteen tens,
Speaker 1: it feels like, and she's like, I called the police,
Speaker 1: but oh, man, I don't remember the exact date I
Speaker 1: last saw her. And it's like you would think you
Speaker 1: would have that date like emblazoned in your mind, but
Speaker 1: guess who does Jack. He pipes up and goes July seventh,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, and he's like, They're like, what are you
Speaker 1: talking about, And he's like, that's the day mommy left.
Speaker 1: I saw her get into his truck. And they're like, wow,
Speaker 1: do you remember anything about the truck. He's like gray
Speaker 1: New Jersey six, I l I nine zero. Fuck this
Speaker 1: kid got the plates and everything. And Lois is like, Jack,
Speaker 1: you never told me that, and he goes, Mommy said
Speaker 1: not to. She said she'd be back soon and not
Speaker 1: to make grandma worried. So this is even like so
Speaker 1: sad too, like because this guy like whatever, we'll get
Speaker 1: in we get into it later.
Speaker 4: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm like sad that this poor fucking kid is like
Speaker 1: had all this information. Anyway, they roll up to the
Speaker 1: house that this that car is registered to and they
Speaker 1: spot the truck with the plates right outside. The lights
Speaker 1: are on in the house and it's just Rollin's and Velasco, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know I'm like, I don't know, uh, and
Speaker 1: the lights are on. A woman comes down the stairs
Speaker 1: to take out the trash and she's like, who are
Speaker 1: you and they're like, we're looking for Trace Lambert and
Speaker 1: she goes, he's not home.
Speaker 4: And then you hear, MA, who you talking too?
Speaker 1: And this guy comes out, weary AirPods and lighting a cigarette.
Speaker 1: Take you to him, headphones out, and then Rollins is like, hey, buddy,
Speaker 1: we're wondering if you could come into the city and
Speaker 1: talk with us. And it's like, I've seen you guys
Speaker 1: roll in with SWAT team for like someone that maybe.
Speaker 4: Took one person.
Speaker 1: This guy might have fourteen bodies and a full kill
Speaker 1: cave in the Bronx and you're like, hey, you want
Speaker 1: to come downtown And.
Speaker 4: They sent two people.
Speaker 1: So just when you kind of think he's about to run,
Speaker 1: just what you think he's about to run, there are
Speaker 1: one police car rolls up, So you're not going anywhere, buddy,
Speaker 1: and he's like and the mom's like, I'm coming with you,
Speaker 1: and he goes, MA, I can handle this. Like they
Speaker 1: have kind of a funny dynamic that it's going to
Speaker 1: become more apparent later.
Speaker 4: So back at the squad room.
Speaker 1: We're going through this guy's record vandalism, disorderly conduct, public urination,
Speaker 1: and they're like, he's very organized, he's methodical. He hasn't
Speaker 1: left a trace of his own DNA. He works at
Speaker 1: a carnival up and down the Eastern seaboard for eight
Speaker 1: months out of the year, and then he lives with
Speaker 1: Ma the other four months of the year in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: So all the victims have disappeared in late fall, early winter,
Speaker 1: so that would actually work with his timeline, his Carney timeline.
Speaker 1: So now he's in cement room bars and Ma is
Speaker 1: in woodroom blinds and Benson sends velasko go in and
Speaker 1: give her coffee and play the goods son like, because
Speaker 1: they can already tell something's weird with these two. So
Speaker 1: now we're in with Trace Lambert and he is played
Speaker 1: by Blake DeLong, and he's not offering much. They ask
Speaker 1: do you recognize any of these girls? He goes, I
Speaker 1: meet a lot of people. I'm on the road a lot.
Speaker 1: And then he was They're like, were you in the
Speaker 1: city Sunday night? He goes, I don't think so, and
Speaker 1: Rollins is like, well think again. We've got your car
Speaker 1: crossing the GWB on cams, like, don't just say you
Speaker 1: were in the city. And then we've got your truck
Speaker 1: park near the warehouse where this girl's body was found.
Speaker 1: I think they're showing her him a picture of Tanya
Speaker 1: and then he gets this card immediately yeah really and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, so he goes, somebody really did a
Speaker 1: numb on those poor girls, and Rollins goes, he mummified them,
Speaker 1: bone saws, space heaters like the whole bit, and Finn's like,
Speaker 1: if we run your credit card, are we going to
Speaker 1: find that stuff? And he goes, I don't know, heaters
Speaker 1: from home like you might. My mom is sixty five.
Speaker 1: She gets cold in the winter. And then he kind
Speaker 1: of like smiles, like this guy is smug, like he
Speaker 1: thinks he's He's like, I'm the captain now. And now
Speaker 1: Velasco is in with the mom, pumping her for info,
Speaker 1: and she's like, he's always been like this. He came
Speaker 1: out white as a sheet, flat and quiet, like a
Speaker 1: dead fish. Like talking to me about the day her
Speaker 1: son was born. She said, yeah, he was in the
Speaker 1: city on Sunday. He said he was headed into the
Speaker 1: city to meet a girl. And she said I.
Speaker 4: Knew it was a lie. And they're like, how did
Speaker 4: you know that?
Speaker 1: And she goes, you take a look at him, like,
Speaker 1: I know, they make him look like kind of freaky,
Speaker 1: but it's not like he's like super grow you know,
Speaker 1: like but she's trashing her son.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Benson walks in and Belasco goes, oh, Ma was just
Speaker 1: telling me that Trace isn't good with women, and she goes, well,
Speaker 1: what I said was he's a loser, and uh, yikes,
Speaker 1: tell me about your son, she said. She goes, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you'd be interested, but since you're asking,
Speaker 1: like she seems like somebody who wants to, Like she
Speaker 1: never gets to talk to anyone except for her son,
Speaker 1: who probably tells her to shut the fuck up. So
Speaker 1: just anybody like expressing interest. She's like, oh, you want
Speaker 1: to talk about my son? I have time, yea.
Speaker 2: And I am looking at photos of him for him
Speaker 2: his life and I'm not scared, you know, like he
Speaker 2: is such a good actor.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and he is.
Speaker 2: He is.
Speaker 4: He's freaky. Freaks me out, he I mean, that's why
Speaker 4: I texted you. I like saw that and I was like,
Speaker 4: we gotta get this freak.
Speaker 1: He definitely also gives me William Lewis, Like, he gives
Speaker 1: me William Lewis, Like his face is a little freaky,
Speaker 1: like a younger brother of William Lewis.
Speaker 4: Like that's what I got. You're right.
Speaker 2: When all the ghosts in the final few episodes of
Speaker 2: the series come to haunt Benson.
Speaker 4: Yes, those really gonna be like together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when she dreams of all her success.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so mom is spilling it with Velasco back with Trace.
Speaker 1: He goes, I don't know these girls and they're not
Speaker 1: my type. I like them classier. And then Benson walks
Speaker 1: in and you know, he's like, she's like, hit the road,
Speaker 1: Velasco and Rowlands when you take a little break, she go.
Speaker 1: They go, well, we've been talking to your mom, and
Speaker 1: he's like, she's a lonely old lady. And Benson goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I know, I just got an earful about how much
Speaker 1: you suck with the ladies. And he says, he goes,
Speaker 1: I've had girlfriends, And so then Live brings up Meredith
Speaker 1: and she said, she goes, yeah, your mom and Meredith
Speaker 1: talked about you a lot and how Meredith was out
Speaker 1: of your league, and you know, the mom thought Meredith
Speaker 1: was just with you because she pitied you and stuff.
Speaker 4: And he's like, that's not true. Meredith loved me.
Speaker 1: So he's like already admitting the relationship between one of
Speaker 1: the victims. Right, like we have found Meredith's bodies, he's
Speaker 1: admitting that he added this girlfriend. So your mom also said, also,
Speaker 1: this guy hasn't lawyered up. He's like so meticulous, but
Speaker 1: he's like so cocky, like I don't need a lawyer
Speaker 1: and I'm just going to get out of this. So
Speaker 1: he's like uh So she goes, well, yeah, your mom
Speaker 1: said that you weren't smart enough or ambitious enough to
Speaker 1: commit this crime, and that Carnie Work was like your limit.
Speaker 1: And Benson's playing this freak and I love to see it,
Speaker 1: Like I like to watch her do this little game
Speaker 1: with these guys.
Speaker 4: We've seen her do it before him here she is
Speaker 4: doing it again.
Speaker 1: Benson starts painting a beautiful portrait of this perp. Intelligent, methodical,
Speaker 1: They found victims no one would look for. They found
Speaker 1: a location and kept it hidden for ten years. So
Speaker 1: the guy goes, so you think this guy is smart
Speaker 1: and she goes, oh, yeah, this guy is special. When
Speaker 1: they find him, they're going to make documentaries about him,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're in the height of Netflix at
Speaker 1: the point of this episode.
Speaker 4: I wonder if.
Speaker 2: Netflix's a thing, though, Like, I do want a documentary
Speaker 2: about the effect of documentaries and the influx of like
Speaker 2: crime or like people wanting fame, Like I am curious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because back in the day, so many serial killers
Speaker 1: were like headlines, headlines newspapers, right, and now it's like
Speaker 1: that's not really a thing anymore.
Speaker 4: If you want to really have your name out there, there's.
Speaker 1: Got to be a hot dock about you, right, and
Speaker 1: then if you're lucky, a Ryan Murphy show or something
Speaker 1: like that. You know, So this guy, you know, they're
Speaker 1: going to make docs about him, and Live goes, I
Speaker 1: mean ten years and the owner of the building didn't
Speaker 1: even know he was there, and he scoffs this guy.
Speaker 1: He goes, shows how much you know the owner, that
Speaker 1: Chinese guy. I heard he's dead. And then she goes,
Speaker 1: So you follow the case, the case that just broke yesterday,
Speaker 1: the case that.
Speaker 4: Just broke you always, I see you've been reading up
Speaker 4: on it. Maybe I underestimated you.
Speaker 1: So now liv goes, Live starts doing the whole like Okay,
Speaker 1: well you're smart, and I need a smart guy to
Speaker 1: help me figure this out. So let me run my
Speaker 1: theories by you. That's like what she's you know, playing,
Speaker 1: And she goes, I figure this guy is smart, but
Speaker 1: he's also lucky, and and Trace goes, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: he's just smart, really smart. And then she goes, well,
Speaker 1: you think he just found an abandoned building where the
Speaker 1: owner just happens.
Speaker 4: To be dead.
Speaker 1: And the guy goes, he didn't happen to be dead,
Speaker 1: and they go She goes, oh, you knew him.
Speaker 4: He goes, it's what I heard.
Speaker 1: He's barely This guy's barely trying to cover up his story.
Speaker 1: He's so has such a boner to confess his crimes.
Speaker 4: And he goes, no, it's what I heard.
Speaker 1: The killer pretended to be a buyer, sat down with
Speaker 1: the owner to seal the deal over tee yum cha.
Speaker 4: He called it. He never saw it coming.
Speaker 1: The tea was poisoned, made it look like a heart attack,
Speaker 1: and Liv goes, wow, that is a good plan, and
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, it was. It was my plan. And
Speaker 1: Benson's like, ha, okay, sure it was, little buddy. I mean,
Speaker 1: we never like Benson gave a full like uh okay, lolbud,
Speaker 1: like it was so sarcastic, and then Teres goes, no,
Speaker 1: it was I swear I killed him.
Speaker 4: I killed all of them.
Speaker 1: They were my girls, they were mine, and you had
Speaker 1: no right to go in there and disturbed ten years
Speaker 1: of my work. Then he picks up the fucking photos
Speaker 1: and he starts giving detail tales for each one of them.
Speaker 1: It's so sick, like, he goes, oh, Tanya, she screamed
Speaker 1: for her sister, Beauty couldn't stop shaking, d she pissed herself,
Speaker 1: like talking about how terrified these women were as he
Speaker 1: was killing them and torturing them. And he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: and Meredith, she just kept saying no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: And then he goes, I kept her alive for days,
Speaker 1: and he says, I killed all of them, all of them.
Speaker 1: You tell my mother, that tell her what I did.
Speaker 1: And it's like fucking creep city, like, well.
Speaker 2: You know what I learned, Like you know how you're
Speaker 2: most likely a woman's most likely to be killed by
Speaker 2: an intimate partner and then of acquaintance kind of murders.
Speaker 2: The second is son's killing mothers Oh, mattreside Wow, interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just that just oh wait, that just happened in
Speaker 1: my hometown. In my hometown, this kid, and I'm from
Speaker 1: a small town. This kid just murdered his mom. And
Speaker 1: I've been it's been you know, of course everyone knows.
Speaker 1: I'm famously still on Facebook and they know where I'm from,
Speaker 1: so they've been posts, they've been giving me news articles
Speaker 1: about it. Uh yeah, yeah, I think he like beat
Speaker 1: her to death and then they found him in the woods,
Speaker 1: being like my mom, my mom, Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I got to like look up more about this case, but.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, nu Canaan Manecus.
Speaker 1: And I got to ask my best friend because she
Speaker 1: teaches there and be like, did you know this kid?
Speaker 4: He just graduated a couple years ago. But so fucked.
Speaker 1: But yes, what I think is so weird is how
Speaker 1: many times we've seen in this show and in just
Speaker 1: knowing true crime as we do, how many guys become
Speaker 1: serial killers to impress their moms. And sometimes I wonder
Speaker 1: with something like this, with the mummification and the evisceration,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, how so many moms are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I could have had a doctor for a son. I
Speaker 1: wonder if they do these like super medical protect medical
Speaker 1: procedures to be like, well, look what I learned how
Speaker 1: to do, Like I learned how to do all this
Speaker 1: stuff with the body. And you know, even though because
Speaker 1: like realistically you're not going to go to medical school,
Speaker 1: but like I wonder, you know, because it's like and
Speaker 1: then I think part of it is also I got
Speaker 1: away with it for so long. Look how smart I am?
Speaker 1: You know, ugh to impress your mom? Jesus fucked up, Oscar.
Speaker 1: Please don't please don't, honey, if you're listening to this,
Speaker 1: I think you're the best.
Speaker 4: I don't think you need to kill anyone. Okay. Live.
Speaker 1: Then at the last scene, she hangs up with Careesy.
Speaker 1: TRACE's lawyer cut a deal. He'll plead guilty to a
Speaker 1: dozen homicides to avoid federal charges.
Speaker 4: By the way, I count fifteen.
Speaker 1: I count fifteen so far, because he had fourteen victims
Speaker 1: that they found, plus he admitted to killing this Chinese man.
Speaker 4: So that's fifteen victims. But that's just New York.
Speaker 1: Finn points out the FBI is checking the whole East
Speaker 1: coast to see if he did any other murders while
Speaker 1: he was on the road with the carnival and he
Speaker 1: could still get the death penalty for those.
Speaker 4: To me, I feel like.
Speaker 1: This guy needs, like he doesn't have enough time on
Speaker 1: the road with the carnival, like to set up a
Speaker 1: full kill area and pumifacation.
Speaker 2: He didn't mummify the Chinese guy, did he? No, well,
Speaker 2: they didn't find him, no exactly. Yeah, so I think
Speaker 2: he does other crimes too, Like this is passion crimes,
Speaker 2: but he'll kill for survival, He'll.
Speaker 4: Kill for necessity. Yeah that's true too, that's true. Or
Speaker 4: if he gets an urge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean imagine you have to just like check
Speaker 1: all the dates of carnivals on the whole East Coast
Speaker 1: for ten years and match them up to like open
Speaker 1: homicides that could be this psycho. Oh thank god for
Speaker 1: the computer programs I guess that do that. But they
Speaker 1: walk over to Emmy Truman, who explains that he was
Speaker 1: able to id two more of the victims, and Benson's like, well,
Speaker 1: what about the rest?
Speaker 4: Will you be able to id them?
Speaker 1: And he goes, I don't know, but after what they've
Speaker 1: been through, I'm not going to abandon them now. So
Speaker 1: they're really trying to get us to love this guy.
Speaker 1: Truman and I'm I like him here. He's doing a
Speaker 1: lot of great work. And then Beauty's grandmother. We've heard
Speaker 1: her referenced earlier with the mirror that Beauty had in
Speaker 1: her purse, and Finn goes to greet her, and it's
Speaker 1: just like sad because I think that final sighting of
Speaker 1: the grandma is like they tried. They try to make
Speaker 1: it seem like no one cares about these girls, but
Speaker 1: there are people that do, Like there was Daria, there's
Speaker 1: this grandma, Like there are people that just maybe couldn't
Speaker 1: help them get off the streets, but do care about them,
Speaker 1: and they don't deserve to just be like wiped out
Speaker 1: because they're not. They're not cases that aren't no humans involved,
Speaker 1: as that fucking bastard Precinct was calling them. And then
Speaker 1: the episode just ends with live staring at pictures of
Speaker 1: the victims, and that's dick wolf Baby, it was.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for the episode where like Noah eventually
Speaker 2: finds the mummy photos and then you know, I just
Speaker 2: explain what she does. Oh my god, that episode is coming.
Speaker 2: You know he's gonna find something. I guess you already
Speaker 2: found stuff about Johnny ded but yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for them to do the episode where
Speaker 1: Noah gets in trouble and Benson has to do her
Speaker 1: Stabler shit where she decides to cover it up or
Speaker 1: to help or whatever, because they're going to get to that,
Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah, yeah, Noah's going to do something that's
Speaker 1: like maybe not that bad, or a friend peer pressured
Speaker 1: him or something.
Speaker 4: So Samuel Little not related to Chicken Little.
Speaker 2: Okay, So this is the choken strokecase, which you know,
Speaker 2: not a great nickname, I guess, but says a lot.
Speaker 4: I hate it.
Speaker 2: So sam Little, in twenty eighteen, he did confess to
Speaker 2: killing ninety three women what between nineteen seventy and two
Speaker 2: thousand and five, spanning sixteen states. Oh shit, And so
Speaker 2: he sat down with Texas ranger James Holland from June
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen to write before his death in twenty twenty
Speaker 2: and he did this very Hannibal lecter to get a
Speaker 2: prison transfer. So he was like, I'll tell you everything,
Speaker 2: all the victims, and he had a photographic memory, was
Speaker 2: able to describe everything, how he met these women, killed them,
Speaker 2: what they looked like. He wasn't accurate in terms of
Speaker 2: time frame or distance. So he was off by decades
Speaker 2: and miles, like that was not part of his brain.
Speaker 2: But he also sketched his victims and like chilling accuracy.
Speaker 2: There's like a lot of side by sides, and they
Speaker 2: gave him colored pencils or their oils, but they're like
Speaker 2: they're haunting because it's really sad.
Speaker 4: The drawings are like good, and.
Speaker 1: I'm honestly surprising I haven't heard of this guy when
Speaker 1: he has so many victims.
Speaker 4: Well, I wonder if it's because he's black. Oh, I
Speaker 4: would think. I don't think that the media.
Speaker 1: The media loves to promote like people of color being criminals,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: And because he killed text workers, that don't matter, Like
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not really sure why we don't
Speaker 2: know much about it.
Speaker 4: It's like Ted Bundy was killing co Ed's, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I get that. Yeah, I wonder you're right. Black people
Speaker 4: get caught more. I don't know. I also think that
Speaker 4: they don't.
Speaker 1: I think that that they like to paint the picture
Speaker 1: of white serial killers as like geniuses who outsmart them
Speaker 1: and they could not say, oh, this man outsmarted us
Speaker 1: for fucking thirty five years and we never or whatever,
Speaker 1: how many of her years it was twenty five.
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe you're right. It's scary, and I don't think
Speaker 4: they should have let him have colored pencils, but I
Speaker 4: guess that could have helped us, like identify some of
Speaker 4: the women that haven't been I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, the women had a lot of personality.
Speaker 2: He saw them as vibrant beings and like, but yet
Speaker 2: he disposed of them like they were truly nothing. He
Speaker 2: was also like he was speaking to a journalist about
Speaker 2: his art, and he was trying not to be offensive,
Speaker 2: and so in answering the questions, he goes, oh, I
Speaker 2: would draw the girls, I mean women, I mean ladies,
Speaker 2: searching for a term that was like least offensive. But
Speaker 2: this journalist, it's for the cut. It's a long piece.
Speaker 2: It's Jillian Lauren, and it'll be a source throughout. And
Speaker 2: she ended up having meetings with him in the prison,
Speaker 2: as the Texas Ranger was so towards that. So they
Speaker 2: were like within months apart, and she went every weekend.
Speaker 2: She would drive and talk to him in prison, and
Speaker 2: they exchange letters and all this stuff. But she's like
Speaker 2: the real answer is victims. They were victims. But like
Speaker 2: it's so interesting that he's like, oh, ladies, but it's
Speaker 2: like you truly strangle them. Okay, So classic backstory and
Speaker 2: it's told by this cut journalist Julian Lauren and teen
Speaker 2: mother abandoned him as an infant on the side of
Speaker 2: the dirt road, and then he dropped out of high
Speaker 2: school in Ohio. He was a competitive boxer and that
Speaker 2: informs his strength and size.
Speaker 4: He was like a big fighter dude, So that sucks.
Speaker 2: And then he began living a nomadic lifestyle and he
Speaker 2: had his first arrest in nineteen fifty six. But this
Speaker 2: dude never had an address, never registered a car, no
Speaker 2: credit cards, nothing. He spent three years in prison for
Speaker 2: robbing a furniture store in Ohio and then, according to
Speaker 2: the FBI, shoplifted, fraud, drug charges, solicitation, breaking, and entering.
Speaker 2: He got arrested for like decades Ohio, Maryland, Florida, Main Connecticut, Oregon, Colorado, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: New Jersey, Arizona, Georgia, Illinois, Missouri, California, on and on on.
Speaker 2: Assaulted a police officer, grand theft, unlawful fight to avoid prosecution,
Speaker 2: resisting arrest, battery, false imprisonment, assault with great bodily injury, robbery, rape, sodomy.
Speaker 2: For all of this combined total time ten years in jail.
Speaker 1: My god, it's like these nineteen fifty sixty seventies prison
Speaker 1: sentences are so wild.
Speaker 2: So September nineteen seventy six, Little was arrested in Sunset Hills,
Speaker 2: Missouri for the rape, assault, and great bodily injury and
Speaker 2: robbery of Pamela K.
Speaker 4: Smith.
Speaker 2: She showed up hysteriracle on a stranger's doorstep after escaping
Speaker 2: his car, running nearly naked through the night, her hands
Speaker 2: bound behind.
Speaker 4: Her with cloth and electrical cord.
Speaker 2: He had strangled her, bit her, beaten her, sodomized her.
Speaker 2: He was convicted of the lesser charge of assault with
Speaker 2: attempt to ravish attempt to ravish and served three months.
Speaker 2: So three years for robbing a furniture store, three months
Speaker 2: for what that woman went.
Speaker 4: Three years for a couch, three months for a woman.
Speaker 2: It's fucking crazy cases like this across the whole country.
Speaker 2: Years he's he was arrested for horrific crimes and then
Speaker 2: serving no time because the states.
Speaker 1: Aren't talking to each other, so they all kind of
Speaker 1: thinks it's new.
Speaker 4: It's his first offense and.
Speaker 2: We go into ViCAP and it's like, that's one of
Speaker 2: the issues is that it's not mandatory, it's elective, so
Speaker 2: officers have to decide or not if they want to
Speaker 2: put it in ViCAP, and then that alls us to
Speaker 2: be invented and then used and that's what eventually helps
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 4: But like, yeah, the.
Speaker 2: Or not forced to do it, Oh, we're gonna yeah.
Speaker 2: And there was tons of women throughout this, all these
Speaker 2: crimes that was like, hey, it's them, and the cops
Speaker 2: been like, get the.
Speaker 4: Fuck out of here, like it's crazy.
Speaker 2: So yeah, full acquittals, even with eyewitness testimony, there was
Speaker 2: Hair's evidence, they just kept letting him go. And it's
Speaker 2: it's truly wild. I don't know, I don't understand it.
Speaker 2: And with racism throughout all this, I don't, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but I think it's how little we value women, sex
Speaker 2: workers and people that do drugs, Like I don't know
Speaker 2: how else. Yeah, So even when convicted, he served so
Speaker 2: little little time. He pled guilty to two counts of
Speaker 2: assault with great bodily injury and one false imprisonment and
Speaker 2: got four years, only served one and a half, got
Speaker 2: paroled two and then he had two crimes tied together.
Speaker 2: October nineteen eighty four he beat and strangled Tanya Jackson,
Speaker 2: charged with rape and assault with great bodily injury, and
Speaker 2: September nineteen eighty four an attack on Lorie Barrows, who
Speaker 2: played dead to survive on the side of the road.
Speaker 2: So he finally got caught because in twenty twelve he
Speaker 2: was arrested in a Kentucky homeless shelter and extradited to
Speaker 2: California on a narcotics charge. When they got him, LAPD
Speaker 2: matched his DNA to three unsolved murders from the late
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, and all three women were killed the same way, beaten, strangled,
Speaker 2: bodies dumped in an alley, dumpster, or garage. He strangled
Speaker 2: all of his victims, though investigators say it was more
Speaker 2: suffocation than strangulation. Sorry to our listeners, I didn't research
Speaker 2: the difference.
Speaker 1: I'm not on the moon, so suffocation is more like
Speaker 1: a pillow over your face or something suffocating you, whereas
Speaker 1: strangulation is like hand around your neck or something.
Speaker 2: I want the listeners to Kara did act it out.
Speaker 2: She did cover her face and strangle herself.
Speaker 4: I did put a.
Speaker 2: Hand pillow over my own mind it thank you for
Speaker 2: the visual cues, and then two of them he drowned.
Speaker 4: Oh god.
Speaker 2: He never shot or stabbed, he says, which is like
Speaker 2: a brag or maybe it's his proof of humanity or whatever.
Speaker 2: But he's like very adamant, like I never shot her.
Speaker 2: But it's also a lie because he confessed to shooting
Speaker 2: a nineteen year old woman, Evelyn Weston, in the head
Speaker 2: in September nineteen seventy eight, So I don't, Oh.
Speaker 4: God, you care not even your brags aren't even truthful.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And then his boxing passed, like I said, came into
Speaker 2: play because he would knock out his victims and then
Speaker 2: strangle them, and so there was no clear signs of homicide.
Speaker 2: But it's like the Long Island Killer where it's like,
Speaker 2: what do you mean she's naked in a swamp, Like
Speaker 2: what do you mean she's on the side of a
Speaker 2: dirt road and.
Speaker 4: Like yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: One murder Denise Brothers in Odessa, Texas, he like, you know,
Speaker 2: they're sex workers. He like dragged her into the backseat
Speaker 2: of his car, like through her like a doll. He
Speaker 2: was a professional fighter, huge strangled her with one hand
Speaker 2: and masturbated with the other, And so killing was synonymous
Speaker 2: with sex for him, and he liked to make the
Speaker 2: encounters as long and slow as possible. He wanted them
Speaker 2: to regain consciousness and then do it again. And he
Speaker 2: said that, like to the reporter from that cut interview,
Speaker 2: I own you your mind for ever. He said that
Speaker 2: to Denise, and then she cried and he kissed the
Speaker 2: tears from her face. And a lot of these women's
Speaker 2: deaths were misclassified as drug overdoses or accidents or natural deaths.
Speaker 2: Some bodies were never found or like found decades after
Speaker 2: their death as well, he told and like identified and stuff.
Speaker 2: He told Lauren that his first one was a big
Speaker 2: old blonde Turn of the New Year, nineteen sixty nine
Speaker 2: to seventy, Miami, Coconut Grove. She was a hoe and
Speaker 2: then corrected himself prostitute. She was sitting at a restaurant booth,
Speaker 2: red leather, real nice. She crossed them big legs and
Speaker 2: her fish at stockings and touched her neck. It was
Speaker 2: my sign from God. So this is sick, but I'm
Speaker 2: just like telling you, Like she met him in the
Speaker 2: two thousands, This was in ninth January first, nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: like such details.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he remembers like everything about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he remembered eighty eight and he just started going, Wow,
Speaker 2: astonishing details.
Speaker 4: And it took like over months and months.
Speaker 2: She would go and he thought he would never get
Speaker 2: caught due to the fact that he moved around a
Speaker 2: lot and he knew what he was doing. He prayed
Speaker 2: on vulnerable women and yeah, I did to drug sex trade.
Speaker 2: So the FBI is still looking for information to try
Speaker 2: to even find all the victims and families, and they've
Speaker 2: been matching his stories and using ViCAP to find bodies.
Speaker 2: He was convicted and sentenced to three consecutive life sentences,
Speaker 2: but asserts he's innocent. So that's annoying. He tried to
Speaker 2: appeal he lost. The official FBI report thinks VICAPS so
Speaker 2: much that Kevin Fitzsimmons is the VISCAPS Supervisory Crime Analysis
Speaker 2: and he said to ABC News, the biggest lesson in
Speaker 2: this case is the power of information sharing. A Jane
Speaker 2: Doe who turned up dead in an alley in New
Speaker 2: Orleans may look like an isolated event, but when entered
Speaker 2: into the ViCAP database and examined with other mysterious deaths
Speaker 2: or missing persons, patterns emerge. That is the value of ViCAP.
Speaker 2: And I guess we know that. I don't know why
Speaker 2: I had to do a direct quote. Okay, so entering,
Speaker 2: But like I said, it's voluntary and a pattern can't
Speaker 2: be found if police don't take it upon themselves commit
Speaker 2: the case to ICAP.
Speaker 1: Why is it not just you're already filling out all
Speaker 1: this other paperwork.
Speaker 4: She just entered into ICAP.
Speaker 2: It's like not doing that is led by ego, right,
Speaker 2: Like you're not doing it because you either don't care,
Speaker 2: but it's also like I want to solve the case,
Speaker 2: or like there is some like there's a there's a
Speaker 2: reason not sharing information, or the FBI police not working together.
Speaker 2: Like all of that is very like agro to me
Speaker 2: and so misogyny. So Mitzi Roberts was a detective with
Speaker 2: the LAPD homicide and she talked to Jillian Lauren and
Speaker 2: she was someone that was there and helped catch this guy.
Speaker 2: She suspected him of many more killings across the country,
Speaker 2: and she figured that other police departments would want to
Speaker 2: start connecting it to her own, like to their unsolved murders.
Speaker 4: Never happened.
Speaker 2: She was so frustrated, so she like, you know, he
Speaker 2: prayed on what she called the less dead and people
Speaker 2: who live in the margins of society, and so it's
Speaker 2: like not listening to her so forever she was like, you, guys,
Speaker 2: we have to investigate we have.
Speaker 4: It, and no one was interested in working with her.
Speaker 2: And it's like I feel sometimes when you talk about
Speaker 2: like gender stuff, men think they've given so much or
Speaker 2: done so much, and it's like, well, how much better
Speaker 2: and faster would it have been if you just listened
Speaker 2: to women, Like I just heard, yeah story, this woman
Speaker 2: invented something the Navy like everyone laughed at her and
Speaker 2: now it's like the basis of Wi FI and all
Speaker 2: the men and the Navy stole her idea and she
Speaker 2: died penniless and you know Instagram feedti that. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it's just like why don't you ever work with women?
Speaker 1: And like this show over and over again, like we
Speaker 1: literally are about to do another episode where lev is
Speaker 1: talking to like another bureau or like another division of
Speaker 1: the NYPD, being like we're all wearing the same shield,
Speaker 1: like let's work together. And these guys are time and
Speaker 1: time again even and stable or two will be like,
Speaker 1: it's my case, I get the glory, Like they want
Speaker 1: the glory of the salt instead of like the justice
Speaker 1: for the victim, which is what I would say majority
Speaker 1: of probably female law enforcement are more looking for. But
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of also asshole ladies that
Speaker 1: work in law enforcement. But at least in our world
Speaker 1: of Benson, she wants the justice for the victim, not.
Speaker 4: A medal and true leaders. There's something else.
Speaker 2: Remember when someone took the credit and she's like, do
Speaker 2: you want it?
Speaker 4: And there was like, that's not about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it was in the episode
Speaker 1: that's something, Yes, that's yeah.
Speaker 2: So Sergeant Darren Versiga is quoted in the cut it
Speaker 2: wasn't really possible to commit a crime against the black prostitute.
Speaker 4: It just wasn't a crime. Oh my, So Roberts began
Speaker 4: to put it together.
Speaker 2: Eighteen years after the Odessa icap information about Denise Brothers.
Speaker 2: Roberts found an outstanding two thousand and seven narcotics warrant
Speaker 2: and the DA said they would extradite him if she
Speaker 2: found him.
Speaker 4: So Roberts got a lead.
Speaker 2: It was a prepaid Walmart cart in which little social
Speaker 2: security payments were being deposited and it was last used
Speaker 2: in Kentucky. US Marshall's Fugitive Task Force jumped in, they
Speaker 2: found his ass arrested him on a minor drug charge
Speaker 2: various view and then he was in California, cocky as fuck,
Speaker 2: refusing to talk. He's like, I'll be free again, because
Speaker 2: why not. He's been doing this for decades. But they
Speaker 2: could hold him since there was a DNA hit on
Speaker 2: the bra and fingernail kit of a forty one year
Speaker 2: old Carol Alford who has found strangled in her residential
Speaker 2: South Central Alleyway in July nineteen eighty seven, and that
Speaker 2: was the tipping point. So the morning of April twelve,
Speaker 2: she had a case to case DNA match connected to
Speaker 2: the murders of Audrey Nelson from August nineteen eighty nine
Speaker 2: and Guadalupe Abadaca a month later. And it was Samuel Little,
Speaker 2: whose DNA had been taken in the mid nineteen eighties
Speaker 2: when he pled guilty to a Sultan San Diego. And
Speaker 2: then the thing that she realized during her time with
Speaker 2: this case was that was that he hadn't been hiding.
Speaker 2: He'd been committing crime after crime in plane sight he
Speaker 2: was not even hiding. He's like we like so January
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, eighty A. Beth Silverman filed three charges of
Speaker 2: murder against him. September fourth, twenty fourteen, after weeks of
Speaker 2: testimony from criminologists, expert witnesses, pathologists, police officers, and living victims,
Speaker 2: and like they called an inspiring closing argument by Silverman,
Speaker 2: a jury convicted him of three counts of first degree
Speaker 2: murder and three life sentences. So this is just like
Speaker 2: something that I find interesting, but it has nothing to
Speaker 2: do with the case. But when she went to go
Speaker 2: visit him, the journalists, you could only bring plastic bags
Speaker 2: full of quarters, like you can't bring anything else in there.
Speaker 2: And then she would buy him funians and like honeybuns,
Speaker 2: and that's how you get them to talk. So just
Speaker 2: something I thought of. But the case of Denis Brothers,
Speaker 2: he finally admitted to it and that's what got him
Speaker 2: to Texas to finish the rest of his time there.
Speaker 2: So they extradited him from California to Texas for this crime.
Speaker 2: And yeah, the similarities between the authorities, the you know,
Speaker 2: the good guys and then the bad guy killers is
Speaker 2: both the victor like they all think the victims are
Speaker 2: disposable and barely people. And that's what sucks because it's
Speaker 2: like it's it's just yeah, the killers and the people
Speaker 2: solving the crimes do not find.
Speaker 4: These people worthy, so it sucks.
Speaker 2: But he saw himself as an angel of mercy, divinely
Speaker 2: commissioned to euthanize. But then he said he believed he
Speaker 2: was the devil, and uh, you are the devil, and
Speaker 2: no one ever checked you, he said, I don't know,
Speaker 2: there's a quote he liked killing them. We don't have
Speaker 2: to talk about it, but if you want to look
Speaker 2: up more information on the victims, the FBI has video
Speaker 2: confessions next to the women's faces and drawings, and there's
Speaker 2: a lot of them. That's why I wanted a name
Speaker 2: as many as I could. Within Yeah, reading, Okay.
Speaker 4: Did this guy little like did he like?
Speaker 1: Well, it goes to show you that they don't think
Speaker 1: these people are because like Texas could have killed him,
Speaker 1: Like why did anybody no death penalty for this guy?
Speaker 4: Damn? Like it's you know, people just loves to kill.
Speaker 1: They kill people that were just at a murder like
Speaker 1: all the time, you know, like that they just were
Speaker 1: like drove the getaway car or whatever. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: they're probably just like, oh, well he was just killing
Speaker 1: sex workers or whatever. Fucking fucked. But I can't believe
Speaker 1: that's so prolific. And I've never heard that name before.
Speaker 2: All Right, so the next case, it's Russian, it's Moscow,
Speaker 2: but I don't know how would even say his name
Speaker 2: Moscow and Natally and.
Speaker 4: I actually, I actually do somebody with this name Anatoly. Yeah, Anatally,
Speaker 4: it just doesn't roll off the tongue. I would say.
Speaker 2: The Moskvin case. So this dude, he dug up twenty
Speaker 2: nine female bodies, children, so I don't know what children,
Speaker 2: young girls, brought them to his apartment, where he dressed
Speaker 2: them in women's clothes and put them on display.
Speaker 4: He lived with his.
Speaker 2: Parents, oh my god, in the city of Nijnievod. But like,
Speaker 2: none of this is easy to say, but like, I mean,
Speaker 2: that sounded pretty good.
Speaker 4: The parents, no question.
Speaker 2: They were like like, he brought dead bodies home and
Speaker 2: decorated them and there was no questions.
Speaker 4: Elvira, yeah that is his mother's name, said that.
Speaker 2: She only saw them as dolls and didn't realize there
Speaker 2: were human remains inside. But also when your grown son
Speaker 2: lives with you and is making like dolls? Is that
Speaker 2: like giant ones?
Speaker 4: I don't know. Is that not a red flag not
Speaker 4: to be like heteronormative?
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: But it's also like, what about the smell? Does the
Speaker 2: mummy take away the smell? We have been talking about this,
Speaker 2: but this dude Moskvin. He was a historian, He specialized
Speaker 2: in the history of his town. A linguistic expert, he
Speaker 2: spoke thirteen languages. Former military intelligence translator. He was really
Speaker 2: well known in academic circles, and he studied Celtic culture,
Speaker 2: which is like funny to me. And he had books
Speaker 2: and academic works, and he was considered the leading expert
Speaker 2: in cemeteries in the city.
Speaker 4: Ding Ding Ding. So he claimed that from two okay,
Speaker 4: he's like a psycho.
Speaker 2: So from two thousand and five to two thousand and
Speaker 2: seven he expected seven hundred and fifty two cemeteries, oftentimes
Speaker 2: traveling twenty miles a day on foot, drinking from puddles,
Speaker 2: and spending nights in haystack or farms. And CBS News
Speaker 2: said that he even once slept in a coffin.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, drinking from a puddle. Brain is broken.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he loved cemeteries and death. Even since childhood.
Speaker 2: He loved running in graveyards. He would study gravestones on
Speaker 2: cover life stories of the names he found. And it
Speaker 2: started at twelve because he was at a funeral procession
Speaker 2: and someone made him kiss the face of an eleven
Speaker 2: year old dead girl.
Speaker 4: Oh god.
Speaker 2: The bodies were mummified faces wrapped in cloth, wearing the
Speaker 2: bright dresses, had scar stockings, knee length boots, lipstick, makeup.
Speaker 2: There was a mix of bodies and skeletons. One was
Speaker 2: dressed like a Teddy bear some Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: So I could see how if you can't see the
Speaker 1: flesh of them that he was like telling his mom, Oh,
Speaker 1: these are artifacts, Like I'm working on these for work,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know. I'm kind of trying to give
Speaker 1: Elvira a little bit of a benefit of the doubt
Speaker 1: here that she didn't know these were dug up bodies, like,
Speaker 1: and she was like what, Like, but her son works
Speaker 1: in cemetery work and in archiving, and in all that, we.
Speaker 4: Had music boxes wedged in their chests.
Speaker 1: Ahafending him, I'm defending Elvira.
Speaker 4: He had a ton of plastic. Oh you'll hate her.
Speaker 4: By the end he had a.
Speaker 2: Ton of plastic dolls that had human remains inside of them.
Speaker 2: Jesus and if that's all not sick enough, he marked
Speaker 2: the birthday of each of his dead victims in his
Speaker 2: bedroom and this is the Daily Mail. It called it
Speaker 2: a chilling ritual, but it is the Daily Mail. They
Speaker 2: were seated on shelves, sofas stacked, but there was also books,
Speaker 2: papers and according to the BBC, it said remains belonged
Speaker 2: mainly to girls or young women, and they had been
Speaker 2: dressed up in clothes taken from corpses.
Speaker 4: She's just grave robbing. All around.
Speaker 2: They found photographs, nameplates taken from the headstones, and instructions
Speaker 2: for making dolls, maps for the cemeteries.
Speaker 4: So like he was caught.
Speaker 2: Shoes found in the flat matched footprints found in the cemeteries.
Speaker 4: BBC I said flat. It was the BBC.
Speaker 2: Some Russian sources reported that Muslim graves were singled out.
Speaker 4: In the robberies.
Speaker 2: There was conflict in the story of how he was
Speaker 2: discovered and arrested, so one paper claimed he was detained
Speaker 2: at a cemetery carrying a bag of bones. Another said
Speaker 2: that investigators found the bodies when they visited him in
Speaker 2: his home to ask about the desecration of graves and
Speaker 2: that it was a long running investigation. So they went
Speaker 2: to the cemetery expert, you know. But they all grew
Speaker 2: suspicious of him during the meeting, so they went in
Speaker 2: for help.
Speaker 4: But it was in Alexi.
Speaker 2: Yesen is the editor of the local paper, and he
Speaker 2: told ap and classic man fashion, I saw no signs
Speaker 2: of that while working with him. Honey, what about when
Speaker 2: he scooped over a puddle, like scooping a puddle in
Speaker 2: his mouth?
Speaker 4: How about that? Oh my god?
Speaker 2: Some of those remains he was living with for up
Speaker 2: to ten years. He was arrested in March twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: One report said detained twenty eleven. So around there he
Speaker 2: confessed to forty four counts of abusing graves of girls
Speaker 2: ages three to twelve. That's why I don't understand why
Speaker 2: they keep saying young women and female like it's a
Speaker 2: child Like I don't get Yeah, so Daily Mail.
Speaker 1: Oh so why it's like if he's just a freak
Speaker 1: that's interested in like death and the human body, why
Speaker 1: is it only girls?
Speaker 4: Yeah? But oh god, so this is from Daily Mail
Speaker 4: as well. It is what it is. So October is fifteenth,
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five, they're.
Speaker 1: Still covering him as of ten days ago, like as
Speaker 1: of two weeks ago.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So pro Kremlin shot media outlet reports that psychiatric doctors
Speaker 2: are recommending that he is safe to return home, and
Speaker 2: I wrote safe for who? So so I also found
Speaker 2: a US Sun piece about it, which I think is
Speaker 2: also trash in May twenty twenty five that they agreed
Speaker 2: to keep him in.
Speaker 4: So I'm wondering what happened.
Speaker 2: But they're submitting documents to try to get the courts
Speaker 2: to discharge.
Speaker 1: But he's not in that long, like he's been in
Speaker 1: for fourteen thirteen years.
Speaker 4: He was doing this for ten.
Speaker 1: You've got to serve like a little bit more time
Speaker 1: before it's like, I'm actually all better now.
Speaker 4: I'd actually don't want to dig up body.
Speaker 2: But we've written the parole boards before, but it's like,
Speaker 2: could we write to Russia? Like I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do, but these docs are like, yeah, they we
Speaker 2: think he can live with friends and family and not
Speaker 2: in the care but I think he's probably a creep
Speaker 2: and just don't want to be around him. I honestly
Speaker 2: think that he's so disturbed. They're like, please get him
Speaker 2: away from us. But the secure hospital and Nijenine Novogoroad
Speaker 2: refused to comment. But yeah, so he was sent to
Speaker 2: the psychiatric clinic, not a prison, because he was ruled
Speaker 2: to have schizophrenia and could not stand trial. That's according
Speaker 2: to the Sun. But looking at the crime scene photo,
Speaker 2: oh my god. The Daily Mail just put the crime
Speaker 2: scene photos in it and I think it will permanently
Speaker 2: alter the way I live. But yeah, just saw the dolls,
Speaker 2: just saw them all, saw o their faces. You can't
Speaker 2: just do that, Like, shouldn't it be blurred and it
Speaker 2: say like, hey, yeah, sensitive image? Yeah, because I don't
Speaker 2: think I would have clicked on it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the parents of the dead children really don't want
Speaker 2: him out. They want him incarcerated for life, which I
Speaker 2: agree with. I think it's unfair to subject the public
Speaker 2: to having to interact with this man. I understand he
Speaker 2: did not do the murdering, but we cannot trust him
Speaker 2: out in the world. He's refused to apologize to the
Speaker 2: families of his victims, so no, he is not sorry.
Speaker 2: You cannot let him out. There's courts that are stopping him.
Speaker 2: But a doctor keeps wanting to release him, and I
Speaker 2: don't know why. They're all so fucking hard to, you know,
Speaker 2: have a herd gdding amount. He told the parents, ready,
Speaker 2: you abandoned your girls in the cold, and I brought
Speaker 2: them home and warmed them up. And then he also says, besides,
Speaker 2: they buried their daughters and this is where I believe
Speaker 2: their rights over them finished.
Speaker 4: So no, I would not apologize. And then his so
Speaker 4: Alvirah said, the court is biased against my son.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we are. Can we not be biased against anybody?
Speaker 2: We don't like him. We don't like him.
Speaker 1: The court is acting like my son did something really
Speaker 1: creepy and illegal, and it's not fair. I'm sorry. I
Speaker 1: don't know why I was standing up for a vibr before.
Speaker 1: I was just kind of trying to feel like, how
Speaker 1: could anybody not think that is so deeply fucked up,
Speaker 1: especially when your son is like a professor and an
Speaker 1: author and.
Speaker 4: All this stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, he also still believes that either black magic or
Speaker 2: science will be able to bring the girls back to
Speaker 2: life again, and he wants to be an expert in
Speaker 2: making mummies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so exactly.
Speaker 1: You let him out and he's going to start trying
Speaker 1: to do the process of mummified.
Speaker 2: I don't know why they're trying to let him out.
Speaker 2: I think they don't want to be around him. I
Speaker 2: think they're sick of being around him.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 2: That's just my theory. Okay, so it gets worse. So
Speaker 2: this is a guy Robert picked him. The pig farm
Speaker 2: Killer Canada. Disheveled Loser is how the New York Times
Speaker 2: described him.
Speaker 1: Ha ha, wait, disheveled loser. Fucking rocks. That's so funny.
Speaker 1: Should we make a shirt that sent dishoveled Loser?
Speaker 2: I guess someone reposted today that on our last episode,
Speaker 2: I wrote like, I've always been paranoid and suspicious or something,
Speaker 2: and I don't remember that I said that, but yeah,
Speaker 2: you said that.
Speaker 4: But I have. I definitely have, but also tricked constantly.
Speaker 2: So this dishoveled Loser owned a CD nightclub called Piggy's Palace,
Speaker 2: and he also owned a pig farm. He would take
Speaker 2: female victims to his pig farm in a crime spree
Speaker 2: near Vancouver and the late nineteen hundreds and early two thousands,
Speaker 2: CNN reported from like nineteen seventy eight to two thousand
Speaker 2: and one was when he was arrested again.
Speaker 1: Decades long criminals. So shit, yeah, twenty three years of
Speaker 1: just crimes.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: He had a seventeen acre farm. It's a pict in
Speaker 2: farm in Port Quakatalam. I don't know it's but it's
Speaker 2: the largest crime investigation scene in Canada's history.
Speaker 1: Detectives. Guy has experts, nightclub called Piggies and a pig farm.
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of registering. Yeah, yeah, fucking crazy. I
Speaker 1: was wondering the lack of reaction. Actually, yeah, like, I'm
Speaker 1: glad it came to you. Sorry, I okay, got it.
Speaker 4: He's sick. So they were, but I okay.
Speaker 2: So they were women of course from cd areas, sex workers,
Speaker 2: users of drugs that were in the margins of society,
Speaker 2: and Vancouver Police of course, have been criticized for not
Speaker 2: taking these cases seriously earlier because of the types of
Speaker 2: victims they were, and a lot of these victims were indigenous.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So he would throw drug and alcohol fueled parties. That's
Speaker 2: how we would lure people in. And in two years alone,
Speaker 2: twenty five women met missing in the area and the
Speaker 2: cops couldn't put together. There was a cereal twenty five
Speaker 2: women in two years and not one cop was like,
Speaker 2: are they connected? I just I can't picked in Also
Speaker 2: to sixth grade education, by the way, so this guy
Speaker 2: who has a sixth grade education.
Speaker 4: Is just the cops can't figure it out. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Evaded the cops for decades, and of course he had
Speaker 2: other brushes with the law. He was charged with attempted
Speaker 2: murder in ninety seven after a woman, Wendy lynn Ice Tetter,
Speaker 2: was found bloody and disheveled on a road near his farm.
Speaker 2: He said he was defending himself from a robbery attempt,
Speaker 2: and the charges were dropped. A year later, his former employee,
Speaker 2: Bill Hawkescox called a hotline set up by one of
Speaker 2: the missing sex workers Lovers and reported that his foster
Speaker 2: sister saw bloodied women's clothing in the farm when she
Speaker 2: worked there as a domestic servant, which I think is
Speaker 2: outdated language or I don't know, yeah, maybe she is.
Speaker 4: I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was a sexual I can't noah know, she
Speaker 2: was just working at the farm and she saw something,
Speaker 2: but when the cops interviewed her, she denied it. But
Speaker 2: so now another example of how listening to women helps everybody.
Speaker 2: So Detective Laurie Schenner wanted to pursue mister pickt in.
Speaker 2: I don't want to call him mister fuck that guy
Speaker 2: picked in dishovel. Detective Louri wanted to stuff old loser,
Speaker 2: but people familiar with the case said her superiors did
Speaker 2: not think he was particularly likely culprit among the two
Speaker 2: hundred suspected they had listed. And this is according to
Speaker 2: The New York Times. A woman who wrote a book
Speaker 2: about her sister and the other women that went missing,
Speaker 2: said that Laurie wanted to build a case around him,
Speaker 2: but the department did not support her. So finally, in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight, Kim Rossmo, an investigator specializing and profiling criminals,
Speaker 2: urged the department to investigate the possibility that all these
Speaker 2: missing women were killed by one man. Superiors refused, so
Speaker 2: he says, Canada's largest serial killer investigation was on their
Speaker 2: doorstep and they fumbled the ball that hard and that
Speaker 2: he said that to the Times, and what they did
Speaker 2: instead was failed to renew his contract, and they just
Speaker 2: hated it. They're like, yeah, he's just doing this because
Speaker 2: he has sour grapes, because we let him go. But
Speaker 2: they let him go because he wanted to do this
Speaker 2: and they didn't want to. So the remains or DNA
Speaker 2: of thirty three women were found on the farm, but
Speaker 2: there were two hundred thousand DNA samples that were taken
Speaker 2: from the investigative team there. They were on that farm
Speaker 2: for eighteen months and it cost sixty one million dollars
Speaker 2: to do the search. And the farm also had really
Speaker 2: crazy signs when you entered it said no visitors, agents, peddlers,
Speaker 2: or salespeople. Equal admittance by appointment, admittance right, admittance by
Speaker 2: appointment only, no exceptions. This property is protected by a
Speaker 2: pitbull with aids. What yeah, okay, so skull and we do.
Speaker 4: Keep learning new things. This is crazy, we do. So.
Speaker 2: Skulls and teeth of women were found in the freezer,
Speaker 2: andrew buckets with skulls, hands, partial feet of a couple women.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Bodies with bullet wounds, personal belongings, clothing, fingernails, tiny body
Speaker 2: pieces in a fridge trailer, garbage, hands filled with body parts, purses.
Speaker 2: He rapped to an undercover cop once that he killed
Speaker 2: a total of forty nine women. They planted someone in
Speaker 2: his cell and he gained his trust and god it wow,
Speaker 2: he told this dude. He strangled his victims and then
Speaker 2: fed their remains to his pigs.
Speaker 1: This is a storyline in Hannibal, the TV show Hannibal.
Speaker 2: There's a character what nineteen eighty four is? Aren't they
Speaker 2: like pigs that do weird things?
Speaker 4: Should I read it? I'll read it.
Speaker 1: But nineteen eighty four is like an allegory or something
Speaker 1: like this in Hannibal, Like there is a guy who
Speaker 1: like kills people and feeds them to his pigs, because
Speaker 1: pigs will eat like anything in like the body. There's
Speaker 1: like they eat the bones too. I guess like there's
Speaker 1: nothing remaining. Okay, we'll I have more deeps unfortunately, okay, great.
Speaker 2: He would hang some victims like he would hang them,
Speaker 2: skin the and skin them on a meat hook. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, the ish the more issues arose because health
Speaker 2: officials had to issue a tainted meat warning to all
Speaker 2: the neighbors who were buying pork from his farm.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, yeah, I don't want anyone to get sick.
Speaker 2: Not one body had been found intact, so a lot
Speaker 2: of suffering, of course, Oh my god. And the wood
Speaker 2: shepperd would wood chip into the pig's mouths.
Speaker 4: So he destroyed a lot.
Speaker 2: He also sold soil to businesses around British Columbia. So
Speaker 2: all that land and soil was bought and then condos
Speaker 2: developed on all these places. It's like there's evidence of
Speaker 2: bodies all over British Columbia. So he was arrested February
Speaker 2: two thousand and two on almost accidents. They weren't even
Speaker 2: looking for these women. The Royal Canadian Mountain Police, Mounted
Speaker 2: Police whatever the Canadian police arrived to form to investigate
Speaker 2: reports that he had an unlicensed shotgun, and then then.
Speaker 4: We're gonna look into We're gonna look into that.
Speaker 2: And then when they went to search for this unlicensed shotgun,
Speaker 2: they found an asthma and hayler and ID cards belonging
Speaker 2: to missing women.
Speaker 4: He was then charged with the murder of twenty six women.
Speaker 2: Split between two trials, he was convicted of six counts
Speaker 2: of second degree murder second degree listen to that sentenced
Speaker 2: to life in prison in O seven. The victims of
Speaker 2: those six were Mona Wilson, Serena abbots Way, Marnie Frey,
Speaker 2: Brenda Wolfe, Andrea Josberry, Georgina Pappened.
Speaker 1: Do any of these guys like say, why they do
Speaker 1: I mean, like does he say why like the last
Speaker 1: guy was like delusional, thought that he was like actually
Speaker 1: not the last guy that guy was had suffered from schizophrenia,
Speaker 1: thought that he was the first guy that you talked about,
Speaker 1: was saying like he thought he was like doing these
Speaker 1: women a favor?
Speaker 4: What is this pig torture man thinking? I don't know,
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know. There's like there doesn't have
Speaker 4: to be like a motive, but it's just.
Speaker 2: So his whole chance was, yeah, the remains were on
Speaker 2: my farm, but I had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 4: Oh, so they read the verdict.
Speaker 2: He had his head bowed and then a jury of
Speaker 2: seven men and five women took ten days to reach
Speaker 2: the verdict.
Speaker 4: Ten days.
Speaker 2: So listen, so you will get life in prison. But
Speaker 2: because it was second degree murder, he does get a chance.
Speaker 2: He's eligible for parole in ten years. But I don't
Speaker 2: understand why there was even a chance of parole. But Canada,
Speaker 2: you get it, and the most you can keep someone
Speaker 2: until parole is twenty five. So you can't get a
Speaker 2: life sentence, but you become eligible. But I also don't
Speaker 2: understand why it was the second degree lesser charge That
Speaker 2: means not planned, but it's clearly first degree murder.
Speaker 1: You that brings somebody up and skin them accidentally and then.
Speaker 2: Get rid of all the remains, like you plan all that,
Speaker 2: Like I don't like getting rid of bodies means you've planned, yeah,
Speaker 2: so or I guess not whatever. I just wonder because
Speaker 2: the first degree murder in Canada would be immediate life sentence,
Speaker 2: no parole, So that's annoying.
Speaker 4: I think it's clear it's six people.
Speaker 2: Like CBS News reported that he did get the minimum
Speaker 2: twenty five years before being eligible for parole, and I
Speaker 2: get it just means eligible, not that they'll let him out,
Speaker 2: but I just think it's psycho.
Speaker 1: If so he's eligible in two years, right, twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: That was also before the other twenty charges even went
Speaker 2: to court, so he's not going to get out. Canada
Speaker 2: does not have the death penalty, but none of that
Speaker 2: actually matters. He was killed in prisonam okay, So I'm
Speaker 2: against the death penalty, but if it's it's a yard murder,
Speaker 2: it's a yard murder. May nineteenth, twenty twenty four, so
Speaker 2: recent he was murdered in prison. He was seventy four
Speaker 2: years old, and then just the thing like Time magazine
Speaker 2: and you sick in me writing there was like an
Speaker 2: article and it was he killed twenty six drug addicted prostitutes.
Speaker 4: No, he killed twenty six women. He killed twenty six women.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he confessed to forty nine, right he said
Speaker 1: forty nine. I mean like no, no, yeah to the undercovery. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 2: But does a fucking matter like your Time magazine, Like
Speaker 2: that's how you see them, Like this is what sucks.
Speaker 2: It's not just like if everyone had better views of
Speaker 2: these people, these criminals couldn't do it. It's like we,
Speaker 2: like a society shares these views, Like for Time magazine
Speaker 2: to call these women drug addicted prostitutes after they were
Speaker 2: brutally murdered, tortured, hung up, skinned, fed to pigs, like
Speaker 2: fuck you, yeah, fuck you. But but you say his job,
Speaker 2: you know, he gets to be the pig farm killer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm glad you were fucking killed. One more crime. I
Speaker 2: do apologize, and I do want everyone to know. There
Speaker 2: was like eight option. There was like a lot of
Speaker 2: crimes for this one. So I've really narrowed it down
Speaker 2: as much as I could. But when people are mummifying, I,
Speaker 2: you know, I can't are doing so many weird things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's like the victims and the time frames of
Speaker 2: getting away with it, and I think it's just like
Speaker 2: these were important for me to share.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So the next case is Harrison Graham, unemployed handyman in
Speaker 2: North Philadelphia. He was late twenties, early thirties vibe, I
Speaker 2: don't really know, six feet tall, and he was known
Speaker 2: to wear thick glasses. He lived in a Rundown apartment
Speaker 2: for four years that was known as the Shooting Gallery.
Speaker 2: So that's where people addicted to drugs bought news heroin.
Speaker 2: But he lived in that neighborhood for eight years. His
Speaker 2: place at the time was described knee deep in debris. Yeah,
Speaker 2: some of us have that in Workshill. You're allowed to
Speaker 2: have debris in your home and be a cool girl.
Speaker 1: There's debris and then there's what you're about to describe
Speaker 1: with in the mouse, discarded syringes, piles of mattresses, old clothes, sheets, boards,
Speaker 1: and boxes. I guess I only have old clothes, sheets,
Speaker 1: and boxes, so that's pretty good. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: in the boxes there's new clothes, you know, like there's stuff.
Speaker 1: It's we're not talking about, uh, I've seen your pretty bad.
Speaker 2: It was also invested with fleas and one wall was
Speaker 2: stained with dried blood. Okay committed crimes between eighty six
Speaker 2: and eighty seven. He was caught when he was evicted
Speaker 2: from his apartment because there was a strong stench. And
Speaker 2: this is August, okay, August eighty seven, you know it's hot.
Speaker 2: So the landlord's nephew, Gregory Smallie, was taking care of
Speaker 2: the you know, it's a rundown fucking place, but of
Speaker 2: the property while his uncle was in the hospital. And
Speaker 2: he ran into Graham and he's like, hey, it smells
Speaker 2: like shit, like you have to leave. You're being evicted.
Speaker 2: Graham's like, fine, fine, fine, let me just get a
Speaker 2: few things. And he was like, and please stay out
Speaker 2: of there until you know I can grab my stuff.
Speaker 2: So Smallie, all of a sudden, I heard banging, hammering.
Speaker 4: Said.
Speaker 2: The apartment was missing a doorknob and the door was
Speaker 2: nailed shut from the outside. So he looked through the
Speaker 2: doorknob hole. He saw two bodies, so he called the police.
Speaker 2: The police Pride opened the nail door. They found six
Speaker 2: bodies in his bedroom, a leg foot bones on the roof,
Speaker 2: a torso in the basement of a neighboring house. Some
Speaker 2: of the bodies were no more than skeletons, and then
Speaker 2: there was a green Duffel bag filled with bones.
Speaker 4: And it's just like, this is so serious.
Speaker 2: But every time I see bones, I think of the
Speaker 2: way you say bones talking about someone else's joke at
Speaker 2: like bones, Yeah, like on fucks it, like kills me.
Speaker 4: This is serious, Greg Johnson.
Speaker 2: All the bodies were so decomposed it was impossible to
Speaker 2: determine the cause or time of death immediately.
Speaker 4: It took a while.
Speaker 2: So what's crazy is we just covered this case Gary Heidnick,
Speaker 2: the House of Horrors, the torturing that like Silence of
Speaker 2: the Lambs where there were six women, the you know
Speaker 2: the tunnel down we did.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He he stalked kind of like black mentally disabled women.
Speaker 4: He kidnapped them.
Speaker 1: Okay, the House of Horrors electrocuted them. Jesus, Why am
Speaker 1: I blacking this out?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel bad. It was what I talk about a lot,
Speaker 1: because the cops really failed pretty hugely with him as well.
Speaker 1: Oh for the episode Manhunt, Yeah, okay, yeah, so that
Speaker 1: was March eighty seven and that was in North Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: So these were two miles apart, and his was house
Speaker 2: of Horrors, and this was called the House of Death.
Speaker 2: But they were finding body parts for days in different places.
Speaker 2: Friday the fourteenth, they found Ahead and a torso buried
Speaker 2: in a shallow grave in the basement. August fifteenth, police
Speaker 2: found a human skull in a house near a trash
Speaker 2: strone North Philly apartment building.
Speaker 4: I don't speak like that.
Speaker 2: On August fifteenth, police found a human skull in a
Speaker 2: house near some trash near a North Philly apartment building.
Speaker 2: Also in the basement three doors away from Graham's apartment.
Speaker 2: That's like where they found stuff. One of the bodies
Speaker 2: was also sandwiched between two mattresses in his home. I
Speaker 2: guess you guys didn't need any of that, Okay. Taken
Speaker 2: into custody on a busy intersection about ten blocks south
Speaker 2: of his apartment, His mother persuaded him to surrender after
Speaker 2: a week long manhunt. The mom called him around one
Speaker 2: pm in the day to be like, hey, wait for
Speaker 2: me on this corner.
Speaker 4: I'll meet you.
Speaker 2: For those in Philly, it was cecil by Moore Avenue
Speaker 2: and Ninth Street. The murder chargers started to come about
Speaker 2: after several hours of questioning, he confessed to having strangled
Speaker 2: them all accidentally. He said he lured them in with
Speaker 2: drug use and they would do drugs and have sex
Speaker 2: and then he would strangle them. He denies rape, but
Speaker 2: authorities do believe it was rape. He waived a jury
Speaker 2: trial because his attorney and mother said that the graphic
Speaker 2: evidence would strongly affect the jury. His attorney, Joel Moldofsky,
Speaker 2: said he wants that he's mentally disabled and he did
Speaker 2: not know right from wrong. They were all accidental deaths,
Speaker 2: all because of drugs and alcohol. Okay, the eightya Roger
Speaker 2: King was going for the death penalty. He did not
Speaker 2: give a fuck. He's like, that's a serial killer. His
Speaker 2: acts were wilful and tensional and premeditated, and that's to
Speaker 2: the New York Times. But he did have a few characters. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you know, a real Sibyl situation. He carried around
Speaker 2: a cookie monster, like a stuffed cookie monster, and that
Speaker 2: was his two year old character Junior. He was also Frank,
Speaker 2: and that's the drug addicts murderer. And then Marty was
Speaker 2: the handyman who cooperated with the police. But they had
Speaker 2: really powerful witnesses so two women survived him, but barely,
Speaker 2: you know, according to psychology today, which I don't know
Speaker 2: is a credible source or not. One said that during
Speaker 2: sex he would place his hands around her throat and
Speaker 2: squeeze and she didn't like it, and he told her
Speaker 2: that he'd kill one of his that he had killed
Speaker 2: one of his former girlfriends, so that's something. And then
Speaker 2: the second witness confirmed that he confessed to killing and
Speaker 2: also threatened her with a machete, which does sound drug fueled.
Speaker 2: The witnesses confirmed he talked to his cookie monster toy
Speaker 2: all the time he was and the deaths of seven
Speaker 2: women and convicted of seven counts each of first degree
Speaker 2: murder and abuse of a corpse in April eighty eight.
Speaker 2: It took a long time to identify the victims, but
Speaker 2: they are Cynthia Brooks, Valerie Jamison, Mary Jeter Mathis, Barbara Mahoney,
Speaker 2: Robin Deshazzar, Sandra Garvin, and Patricia Franklin. His death sentence
Speaker 2: was vacated in two thousand and three due to his
Speaker 2: low IQ, and the judge was like, we'll just execute
Speaker 2: him after his life sentences.
Speaker 4: So that's kind of like a semantics weird game.
Speaker 2: Because he has so many life sentences and they're running consecutively,
Speaker 2: so he would you know, so the death penalty without
Speaker 2: the death penalty kind of a thing.
Speaker 4: Life in prison operol.
Speaker 2: He asked for his cookie monster stuffed animal as he
Speaker 2: was being taken away.
Speaker 4: From court by the bailiff. They said no, and he's
Speaker 4: still in jail at the State Correctional Institution in Cole Township.
Speaker 4: Jeez geez.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I do wonder if the people sitting
Speaker 2: next to me on the Amtrak looked on my computer
Speaker 2: screen and thought of anything or not. Yeah, as I
Speaker 2: was looking at the mummified photos from Russia.
Speaker 1: The sad part too, is that like this episode could
Speaker 1: have been based I mean, like aside from the mummy case,
Speaker 1: like so many cases, like so many serial killers have
Speaker 1: gone after just like sex workers and people on the fringes, and.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I think I focused on the ones
Speaker 2: that like long time frames and also like desecration of bodies,
Speaker 2: because there was some decapitators and stuff, but it didn't. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyway, thank you for doing all that work.
Speaker 1: Are next, We're moving on. We've got a guest. We've
Speaker 1: got a guest, baby, I think you can guess who
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is an actor you may recognize from
Speaker 1: films like When See Us and Tesla. He was also
Speaker 1: recently in two episodes of Long Order Organized Crime if
Speaker 1: you mess with that franchise, but you know him best
Speaker 1: as the terrifying Mumma fire Trace Lambert. Please enjoy our
Speaker 1: wonderful chat with Blake DeLong. So this is so funny,
Speaker 1: Like we've done this podcast for so long, We've talked
Speaker 1: to so many guys who play absolute creeps and then
Speaker 1: they get on the zoom and I'm just like, you
Speaker 1: just seem like a guy I would see in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: But I was terrified of you ten minutes ago. You know,
Speaker 1: uh this part, Wow, you've already like I can't remember
Speaker 1: what the order is, but you've already done some other
Speaker 1: dick wolf stuff.
Speaker 4: How did this?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you did, oh see most recently, which I want
Speaker 1: to ask about. But how did this SVU audition come
Speaker 1: to you? Yeah?
Speaker 5: It was an offer, Yes, it was a shocking offer
Speaker 5: that I was very.
Speaker 4: Happy to get.
Speaker 5: And I had auditions, you know, I'm sure everybody says
Speaker 5: I had audition and for sv bazillion times before I
Speaker 5: got it, and it came at a very interesting moment
Speaker 5: in my own personal timeline. So like I'll try to
Speaker 5: make this not take forever to explain, but in like
Speaker 5: the years leading up to the pandemic, my wife and
Speaker 5: I had been trying to get pregnant and failing and
Speaker 5: feeling like failures. And I was also dealing with this
Speaker 5: terrible back injury that I had gotten partly from doing
Speaker 5: a play for a long time, and I was managing
Speaker 5: the pain of that by going to physical therapy sometimes
Speaker 5: up to three times a week for years, for like
Speaker 5: eight years, acupuncture and all this shit. And during twenty twenty,
Speaker 5: when they closed everything, I couldn't go get my my therapy.
Speaker 5: And by the end of that year, I was in
Speaker 5: so much pains, had discs, you know, slipping out on
Speaker 5: my nerves. I couldn't even sit on my couch. I mean,
Speaker 5: it was like a fucking not of life. And of
Speaker 5: course during twenty twenty that's all we did was sit
Speaker 5: on our fucking couch. Is so yeah, particularly bad, and
Speaker 5: my wife was like, Okay, you gotta.
Speaker 4: Get this surgery.
Speaker 5: So fast forward to the end of that summer twenty one,
Speaker 5: I had I had made the plans to do the surgery,
Speaker 5: and a week before the surgery, my wife is like,
Speaker 5: I don't know where my period is, dude, Okay, well
Speaker 5: we've we've we've seen this episode before, but let's go
Speaker 5: check in.
Speaker 4: So one week to the day, we go to the
Speaker 4: doctor and.
Speaker 5: He's like, you know, doing the ultrasound and there's like
Speaker 5: a he's like scanning across this this you know, void,
Speaker 5: and then there's like a blip, and then he keeps
Speaker 5: scanning and then there's another blip and he's like, Okay,
Speaker 5: so see you right here, Uh check that out. That's
Speaker 5: a heartbeat, you know, very cool, very exciting. And we
Speaker 5: were like, what was the first blip? And he was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: we should probably scrub back to that and see what
Speaker 5: that was all about. And so he like shuttles back
Speaker 5: over and he's like, that is definitely another heartbeat.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: And I just remember, like we were all wearing masks
Speaker 5: and tears are just falling down my face and I
Speaker 5: look at my wife and even just like you know,
Speaker 5: I can only see her eyes. It's just this look
Speaker 5: of like a mask of a frozen mask of horror
Speaker 5: and confusion, and just like what and we walked out
Speaker 5: of there. We were walking down the street. We went
Speaker 5: to get some ice cream, and she was We've been
Speaker 5: trying for four years to have kids.
Speaker 4: I mean, it was a journey. This was a big
Speaker 4: fucking shock.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: This was not IVF or anything. We couldn't afford it,
Speaker 5: you know, and neither of our insurances covered it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: So we're walking down the street, we go get ice
Speaker 5: cream and she's like, I know that at some point
Speaker 5: this is going to be so wonderful, but right now,
Speaker 5: I feel like I'm at a restaurant and I've ordered
Speaker 5: something very expensive and it's been brought to me and it's.
Speaker 4: The wrong thing.
Speaker 5: I just I want to call the waiter back over
Speaker 5: and be like, no, dude, Like this is not the sushi,
Speaker 5: This is not the sushimi bladder that I fucking ordered.
Speaker 5: So I had now, I had nine months. The surgery
Speaker 5: was a week later. I had spinal fusion a week later.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: And they told me, you'll in eight months your back
Speaker 5: will be good enough to sort of live life, but
Speaker 5: it's going to be eight months of recovery. So I
Speaker 5: have this surgery. Two weeks after the surgery, I'm at
Speaker 5: home you know, heavily medicated with a pregnant wife, totally
Speaker 5: you know, drastically unemployed, and I start getting tapes that
Speaker 5: I have to make, and I'm just like, God, this
Speaker 5: is such a bitch making tapes right now. I'm in
Speaker 5: so much pain, but like, I need to work, oh
Speaker 5: as always, so make some tapes. One of the tapes
Speaker 5: was for I think it was for SVU. I it
Speaker 5: must have been the episode before and I don't you
Speaker 5: guys are experts on it so you might remember. But
Speaker 5: there was some part where I had to fucking cry
Speaker 5: my eyes out. I just had to cry my eyes out.
Speaker 5: I was a victim.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, And so I had made.
Speaker 5: This tape with my wife, cried my little heart out,
Speaker 5: sent it in, didn't get it whatever.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, two weeks later, out of nowhere, out.
Speaker 5: Of the blue, my manager's like, hey, you just got
Speaker 5: this offer to do this serial killer part in sview
Speaker 5: and I was like, oh, fuck about time. And it
Speaker 5: actually was the beginning of a whole bunch of work
Speaker 5: that I ended up doing in that time while my
Speaker 5: wife was pregnant, leading up to my Broadway debut, which
Speaker 5: was Death of a Salesman, which I did in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty two while my hit while my twin infants were
Speaker 5: five months old. Friends, Oh my gosh, Burly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy thought he was so cool because he
Speaker 2: ran the marathon and did two wickeeds. But I guess
Speaker 2: you did Death of a Salesman with twins week sausted.
Speaker 5: I did that eight times a week with ten infants
Speaker 5: and whens.
Speaker 4: Did you guys have boys? Girls? One one of each?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 4: One of each? Whoa go? The dream? That was dream?
Speaker 1: That was my dream was to have twins and be done,
Speaker 1: but instead I had to do it two separate times.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry. Yeah, that's cool too. Yeah, we don't know
Speaker 5: any different. We only know this version of it. It's
Speaker 5: it's amazing. It's often incredibly hard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, are they like three or four or what? They're three?
Speaker 4: They're three and a half, and they're rad.
Speaker 5: They go to they go to school now, which is
Speaker 5: why I'm like in my office, which I like, never
Speaker 5: came here for three years, hung out with them mostly
Speaker 5: unless I was working.
Speaker 2: Now, when you get this offer, you're obviously excited, perfect
Speaker 2: time you want to and it's an offer from a
Speaker 2: cool show.
Speaker 4: And then once you read the script, where does your Yeah, brain. Dude,
Speaker 4: I was so stoked. Are you kidding?
Speaker 5: I was fucking stoked because you know, I like you guys, said,
Speaker 5: I play a lot of creeps, some bad guys, and
Speaker 5: I love it. I love playing really twisted characters. It's
Speaker 5: just fun to try to figure it out and like
Speaker 5: solve the puzzle of it and make it work. But
Speaker 5: the one I saw that I had this giant one
Speaker 5: on one with our queen, Yeah, I was just like,
Speaker 5: fucking a, I've been chasing this little dragon for so long. Yeah,
Speaker 5: finally get it and I get to not It's not
Speaker 5: just going to be like a like a little, you know,
Speaker 5: wimpy experience.
Speaker 4: It's going to be the real Yeah. It was real deal, juicy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I told her, and I told Bethany Rooney, our director,
Speaker 5: and everybody I could talk to, like, this was my dream,
Speaker 5: you know, this was my SVU dream.
Speaker 4: Yeah. If I was ever going to do this show,
Speaker 4: this is what I wanted to do. Yeah. One of
Speaker 4: the worst.
Speaker 2: Villains, I would say, one of the hardest episodes to
Speaker 2: watch because they show the mummification.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know I wasn't there. I was gonna.
Speaker 4: One of my questions is did you miss did you
Speaker 4: meet the Mummies?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I just laughed when I saw that on the sheet.
Speaker 1: Did you meet the Mummies?
Speaker 5: I did, well, I that night that they were in
Speaker 5: the warehouse. I was also we were in Red Hook
Speaker 5: doing that stuff, and I was on because I had
Speaker 5: to do like there was just this beat with like
Speaker 5: my hands and my voice sort of apprehending one.
Speaker 4: Of the girls. Oh yes, yeah, the part where you
Speaker 4: let's let's be real kid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the very opening of this of this episode exactly.
Speaker 5: So I was there waiting and I was like, fuck this,
Speaker 5: and I just like wanted out of my trailer and
Speaker 5: wandered onto a hot set and was so sure someone
Speaker 5: was gonna yell at me, but I was like, I
Speaker 5: have to see.
Speaker 4: I got to see the work, the handywork. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 4: So I did. I did it.
Speaker 2: But you're right, the moment with Marishka, you got so
Speaker 2: many cool moments. You know, she's tricky, you got Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's an amazing else that you get to.
Speaker 4: Do with her, which is great, Like she's fricking Yeah.
Speaker 4: It is a very old school kind of SVU. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: You know, where like you prey upon the guy's own
Speaker 1: like Hubris and like his own like inability to let
Speaker 1: his work go uncredited because he's so genius.
Speaker 4: You know, how was working with your mom?
Speaker 1: I loved that on screen mom, not your real mom
Speaker 1: the I uh, I'm looking Oh, Laura Gardner?
Speaker 4: Is that her name? Laura Gardner?
Speaker 1: You guys were a funny mother son duo, which we've
Speaker 1: also seen on SVU before a lot of moms who
Speaker 1: humiliate their sons into becoming serial killers.
Speaker 5: There's real theme there. Yeah, Laura was awesome. She was
Speaker 5: I remember she was in from l A and she
Speaker 5: was a hoot. She was really funny and she's still
Speaker 5: to this day. If I'm in something, she'll send me
Speaker 5: a d M and say it always says exactly the
Speaker 5: same thing. It just says my son.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: I love that. That's so funny. How was doing Law
Speaker 4: and Order Organized Crime?
Speaker 1: You've done a bunch of Dick Wolf stuff, right, like FBI,
Speaker 1: FBI most.
Speaker 4: Bless Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, everyone that works for you. Yeah, they have really
Speaker 5: kept me busy for for years now.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And I watch our Organized Crime, but I'm like a
Speaker 1: season behind, so I haven't seen your season your episode?
Speaker 4: But are you bad? Are you good? What are you in?
Speaker 1: That bad bad.
Speaker 4: I'm bad. Yeah, I'm almost always bad. Have you ever
Speaker 4: done good?
Speaker 5: I mean I've played some just sort of like and
Speaker 5: more ambiguous skies.
Speaker 4: I can see you in a rom com. I feel
Speaker 4: like that. I can see it. You know. I thought
Speaker 4: I would do more stuff like that. Yeah you didn't,
Speaker 4: thank you having a look for an evil killer. I didn't.
Speaker 5: I really didn't, but apparently the industry did. But what's
Speaker 5: really funny is that I've done a lot of commercials,
Speaker 5: and God bless the commercial gods for for you know,
Speaker 5: keeping me in their orbit. I've been really lucky with
Speaker 5: that over the years. And when I do commercials I play,
Speaker 5: I mean, they're always funny. It's always sort of like
Speaker 5: improv comedy stuff. I did like one class at UCB
Speaker 5: and had a blast doing that, But I didn't have
Speaker 5: a big comedy background. I just started booking these things
Speaker 5: where I would I would be improving with.
Speaker 4: People and just that shit's so fun.
Speaker 5: And so I thought years ago, when I started doing
Speaker 5: this and I started having success doing that, I thought
Speaker 5: I might do comedy.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't ever do fucking comedy.
Speaker 2: I wish you who were you in that movie Late Night?
Speaker 4: Just one of the writers, one of the guy writers
Speaker 4: in the room. Yeah, in the room.
Speaker 5: I had one sort of brief but great scene with
Speaker 5: Emma Thompson and she fired me. She was the nicest person.
Speaker 5: I'll tell you, dude, the Brits when you're working with them,
Speaker 5: they are out of control nice. I mean the first
Speaker 5: movie I ever was on, the first like feature I
Speaker 5: ever did.
Speaker 4: I had one day on we need to talk about Kevin.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, It's on my list of things to
Speaker 1: ask you about because psychotically it is one of the
Speaker 1: first movies I ever saw with my husband.
Speaker 4: It was like one of our first dates.
Speaker 1: Whoa And we always tell people were like, isn't that insane?
Speaker 1: Like we didn't really know what it was about. We
Speaker 1: were like, oh, we like indie movies. Let's go see
Speaker 1: this cool movie.
Speaker 5: And then we were like, oh, yeah, what a cozy
Speaker 5: date movie.
Speaker 4: We walked out like totally traumatized. Traumatized.
Speaker 5: I mean, I've seen it exactly one time when it
Speaker 5: came out.
Speaker 4: Never watch it again. It's not a rewatch type of movie.
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's heavy.
Speaker 5: But I I remember I got this job and I
Speaker 5: was so excited, you know, and I'm going to do
Speaker 5: a scene with fucking Tilda Swinton. Yeah, And I had
Speaker 5: to go up to this little town in Connecticut. It
Speaker 5: was me and one other guy. We will play these
Speaker 5: Jehovah's witnesses. And I walked up to a makeup trailer
Speaker 5: and I opened the door and inside was only one
Speaker 5: human and it was till This Winton.
Speaker 4: And she turned and looked at me, and immediately she
Speaker 4: was just like, oh, hello, you'll blake. I know you.
Speaker 6: I've seen your audition tape. You're marvelous. We're so lucky
Speaker 6: to have an actual of your caliber to play this part.
Speaker 6: Thank you so much for being here. Like, oh my god,
Speaker 6: out of control? How did you know who I was?
Speaker 6: I can't believe it? And all day she was like that.
Speaker 5: I mean, we were doing these takes and she would
Speaker 5: pop out of you know the door, you know, the house,
Speaker 5: and poke her head out and say, what would.
Speaker 4: You guys think you want? Try something new? Or how
Speaker 4: do you feel? You know?
Speaker 5: It's just swing working with Lynn Ramsey, who's an absolute genius,
Speaker 5: and Tilda Swinton can't be nicer.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 5: It was such an amazing first day of work up
Speaker 5: for you know, a young actor and it's it's set
Speaker 5: a bar really hard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no one does.
Speaker 5: No one gets to be an asshole, you know, like
Speaker 5: if if, if Tilda Swinton can be this great.
Speaker 4: That's what we always say about Maria. We always say
Speaker 4: that about her.
Speaker 1: She's done twenty seven, she's in her twenty seventh season
Speaker 1: of television. We've interviewed hundreds of actors that have worked
Speaker 1: with her and barely an unkind word, and everybody's obsessed
Speaker 1: with her. And I'm like, well, yeah, no one's allowed
Speaker 1: to be a dick. Then if she's being cool, she
Speaker 1: has the right to be a dick. I guess she's
Speaker 1: earned it.
Speaker 4: But she's not.
Speaker 5: Yes, you know, but she's not at all. And you
Speaker 5: know she she really really fucking cares about the show
Speaker 5: and about about the issues. Like for her, I really
Speaker 5: think it's a it's a calling, you know, And in
Speaker 5: that way when you meet people like that, for me,
Speaker 5: it's just sort of like I'm such a just kind
Speaker 5: of mid level, you know, random character actor type of dude,
Speaker 5: and then I meet people like this at the top
Speaker 5: of the industry, and sometimes they suck, But when they're
Speaker 5: like that, I'm like, man, you deserve to have all
Speaker 5: of this success like you deserve and you should be
Speaker 5: this person.
Speaker 4: You know, it's just so inspiring.
Speaker 5: It really is like it's corny as it sounds corny,
Speaker 5: but it's really inspiring well.
Speaker 2: And that we hear that she does like coverage, that
Speaker 2: she really like she knows what it means to be
Speaker 2: a guest str on that show and then that's the
Speaker 2: heavy lifting or the victim or the killer or whatever.
Speaker 2: And it seems like she's very supportive of other actors.
Speaker 5: She was so cool she you know, right away we
Speaker 5: just started, we just started jamming and both of us
Speaker 5: were really vibing off each other, and then we we
Speaker 5: sort of knew we had it after the first you know,
Speaker 5: we sort of did this master and then we turned
Speaker 5: around in a medium on me, and then we turned
Speaker 5: around a medium on her, and then she was she
Speaker 5: was like, hey, come over here, and we went into
Speaker 5: a closet. There's like a closet in the interrogation room
Speaker 5: and she closed the door and she was literally like,
Speaker 5: all right, we already got it, Like it's so good,
Speaker 5: and she was like, let's go back and for the
Speaker 5: rest of this coverage, let's do it like we're just
Speaker 5: in the grittiest little indie movie, like we should just
Speaker 5: fucking be as quiet as we want we can get,
Speaker 5: we can go off script, like just just jam, just improv,
Speaker 5: let's go. And I was like, are you serious and
Speaker 5: she was like, yeah, let's fucking go. And you know,
Speaker 5: we never got so far off the script, but we did.
Speaker 5: I really feel like when I saw it, they use
Speaker 5: so much of the of the singles on both of
Speaker 5: us that we were doing in our last like three tapes.
Speaker 2: And it's cool to have like the actor be the
Speaker 2: like one of the EPs where she can make those
Speaker 2: kinds of.
Speaker 4: Close Yeah, it was. It was. It was very exciting.
Speaker 4: It was very exciting.
Speaker 5: I think she and Bethany had worked together a lot,
Speaker 5: and Bethany was super super cool and was loving what
Speaker 5: we were doing and just barely said a word.
Speaker 4: Was just like, yeah, it's awesome. And Bethany is a
Speaker 4: director because I know her acting work. Bethany, she not acts.
Speaker 4: She I don't know, maybe she did something I credit.
Speaker 4: He was a legendary director. She's directed a ton of
Speaker 4: no but.
Speaker 2: She it's not her, but she looks like the Mom
Speaker 2: and the Boss episode. That and the Nanny's Shaking episode.
Speaker 4: So she does. She does.
Speaker 1: She looks like her, but she looks like an actor
Speaker 1: from a season three episode of She's.
Speaker 2: The one that shook Maybe to death. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: know her, but no, it's a fully different woman.
Speaker 5: Okay, Now I listened to one episode of You Guys
Speaker 5: podcast to sort of know what I was getting in,
Speaker 5: and I just have to doff my cap to the
Speaker 5: you know, extreme insanity and depth.
Speaker 4: Of trying to make it fun. It's great.
Speaker 5: And you know what else you guys do that's so cool.
Speaker 5: It's You're the tightest two hour podcast.
Speaker 4: It is. It's three podcasts in one.
Speaker 1: It's like a recap and a true crime and an interview,
Speaker 1: and we're really trying to keep it tight.
Speaker 4: But sometimes it's like, wow, that was short two hours.
Speaker 4: You guys are very It's like very it's somehow really
Speaker 4: slick nice here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's like really slick and and but also
Speaker 5: like very.
Speaker 2: Well that probably is for you know, hats off to
Speaker 2: Casey as well.
Speaker 4: He takes a lot of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he takes out a lot of a garment. Bethany
Speaker 1: Rooney has literally directed every show.
Speaker 4: I've ever watched in my life.
Speaker 1: She's a great Sisters picket fences like nine two one.
Speaker 4: I just did. I just did an episode of Elsbeth that.
Speaker 1: It's like Lisa's favorite show, and you know it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Your episode's coming out two days after this podcast, so
Speaker 1: everybody that's listening has to go watch Elsbeth.
Speaker 4: With Blake and listen. Hey, I don't murder anyone. I'm
Speaker 4: not a boy.
Speaker 5: Are you someone that think did something bad? I can't
Speaker 5: say to you, Okay, but I'm not. I'm not a racist. Okay,
Speaker 5: I'm not misogynistic. I'm I'm like a normal I'm a
Speaker 5: pretty normal guy.
Speaker 1: Does anybody ever tell you, Blake that you look like
Speaker 1: Pablo Schreiber you've gotten out before, of course, because I
Speaker 1: don't know another villain of like a I think that's
Speaker 1: a little bit. Like why you were so scary in
Speaker 1: this episode to me is because you look like you
Speaker 1: could be like his little brother. Like he is one
Speaker 1: of the scariest serial killer psycho paths that the show's
Speaker 1: ever had. He does this sort where he terrorizes Maurushka.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen him.
Speaker 5: I wasn't aware of it until I until I did this,
Speaker 5: and then after the fact, you know, I was informed
Speaker 5: by the what do you call like the SVU fans, Like,
Speaker 5: I don't know what you.
Speaker 1: Call the SVU community, the murder officionados, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: Well, whatever they are called. They let me know that
Speaker 5: I was so much like him. Yeah, they thought I
Speaker 5: was him, and then they were like, oh, it's like
Speaker 5: it's going to be his brother. Like they thought I
Speaker 5: was going to come back and it was going to
Speaker 5: be a whole thing. I mean, people really locked in.
Speaker 1: Wow, I thought I was so clever picking up on
Speaker 1: the resemblance.
Speaker 2: Well, and it's the creepiness with both, you know, it's
Speaker 2: like eerie. You're the apprehension, the like the ease cockiness
Speaker 2: of it all.
Speaker 4: But and just the void behind the eyes no emotion.
Speaker 2: But how do you how do you get shark eyes
Speaker 2: like the whole thing about acting's emotions?
Speaker 4: How do you like get void to have no none?
Speaker 4: I have no idea. I don't know how it works.
Speaker 4: I don't know how. It's a mystery, but hopefully you
Speaker 4: guys play brothers or dead.
Speaker 2: I would love to.
Speaker 5: I have been a fan of his for a long time.
Speaker 5: He's also like way bigger than me. He's like I
Speaker 5: don't know how tall. He's like a tall, tall dude.
Speaker 5: Are you on stage? He looks six four and just
Speaker 5: like jacked. Yeah, I am not, but I'd love to
Speaker 5: play his like you know, ne'er do well? Uh black
Speaker 5: sheep brother.
Speaker 1: His brother that's not as good at him as a
Speaker 1: serial killing. You know, I've always been in your shadow.
Speaker 1: You've always done it better than me, are you.
Speaker 2: Like, do you do a lot of research or you?
Speaker 4: Uh, It depends on the thing.
Speaker 5: If it's something that I don't have any background in
Speaker 5: and feel like I really need to, I will. And
Speaker 5: I love doing that, like when it's appropriate, and even
Speaker 5: sometimes when it's not appropriate, I'll kind of get carried
Speaker 5: away with it. But as I've gotten older, I tend
Speaker 5: to just sort of, you know, I see the script
Speaker 5: and I'm like, either I know what this is and
Speaker 5: know what I'm doing, or I'm like, fuck, I gotta
Speaker 5: like really dig into this. I did some serial killer
Speaker 5: sort of you know, poking around when I was working
Speaker 5: on this. I remember there was a movie I did
Speaker 5: for the year before. I did this small part in
Speaker 5: this movie called Tesla about Nikola Tesla with Ethan Hawk,
Speaker 5: and I played the first man to ever be executed.
Speaker 4: In the electric chair. William Kimler. Wow.
Speaker 5: And it was a little two seen a cameo in
Speaker 5: this really cool Michael Almereta movie, which I highly recommends,
Speaker 5: a beautiful movie, and I just I didn't. It was
Speaker 5: before I had kids and stuff and I had time,
Speaker 5: and I was like, fuck it. So I like made
Speaker 5: a pilgrimage to Buffalo, which was where he was living
Speaker 5: when he murdered his wife with an with an axe
Speaker 5: and then was put in prison and whatever. And I
Speaker 5: went to the house where it happened, and I went
Speaker 5: then to the Buffalo History Museum.
Speaker 4: I think it's called the Buffalo History Museum.
Speaker 5: I walked up to the or the library, the history library,
Speaker 5: whatever it was. I walked up to the desk and
Speaker 5: there were these two lovely ladies there, and I said, hello,
Speaker 5: I'm here to learn about William Kimmler.
Speaker 4: And they were like to have fucking died. They were like,
Speaker 4: at last, someone is here to know about mister Kimmler.
Speaker 4: They took me to a microfiche situation.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, blunked down the transcript of this man's entire trial,
Speaker 5: which was he was a fucking terrible alcoholic and he
Speaker 5: didn't have a violent history, but his defense had tried
Speaker 5: to get him off on alcoholic insanity, and so what
Speaker 5: they did was they paraded every other drunk in Buffalo
Speaker 5: across the witness stand to testify what a fucking crazy
Speaker 5: drunk this guy was.
Speaker 4: And it was amazing.
Speaker 5: I sat there for like four hours just reading story
Speaker 5: after story about this guy, like trying to drive his
Speaker 5: horse drawn carriage and jump over a brick wall and
Speaker 5: just smashed into it and just crazy shit like this.
Speaker 5: It was super fun. And when I did the when
Speaker 5: I did the the days on the movie, I told Michael,
Speaker 5: you know, I went to William Kimmler's grave and poured
Speaker 5: out whiskey at his grave. And it was such a
Speaker 5: sweet thing to get to like share with Michael the
Speaker 5: director because he had also like really, you know, knew
Speaker 5: a lot about about Kimler and is a it's a
Speaker 5: long story. This guy was a really interesting cap I
Speaker 5: do love doing that stuff, but it's it's often not necessary,
Speaker 5: and like I said, once you have kids, it's so
Speaker 5: much harder to make that.
Speaker 2: So just go to Buffalo to just go too and
Speaker 2: want to off for three serial killer? Yeah, yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: Elsbeth's is Elsbeth is coming up soon? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Any other days.
Speaker 5: Everybody watched Blake on El Somber sixth Uh, you can
Speaker 5: see me on Elsbeth with Lana Condor.
Speaker 4: Oh I didn't.
Speaker 5: I didn't know before this, but I met her. We
Speaker 5: have a we have a cool scene together. She is
Speaker 5: the nicest person. And you know, someone tells you you're
Speaker 5: going to do this scene with this person and they
Speaker 5: have ten million Instagram followers.
Speaker 4: Oh the summer? Is she summer? I turned pretty? Or
Speaker 4: no to all the boys I've loved before.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, different generations.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't know who she.
Speaker 2: Was episode of SVU and I really wanted to get
Speaker 2: one of the girls.
Speaker 4: I was like, let's get this girl.
Speaker 2: And they're like, that's Lily ryan Hart and she has
Speaker 2: thirty five million followers and.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god. Well, Lana is a dream.
Speaker 5: She's terrifically talented and super super sweet.
Speaker 1: So we had amazing why No Visa will be watching
Speaker 1: and I will catch it as well. I need to
Speaker 1: catch up on my Elsbeth And if you we'll do
Speaker 1: one final question to wrap it up. If you were
Speaker 1: to come back into the Dick Wolf universe, who would
Speaker 1: you like to play hmmm, or.
Speaker 4: Come back to a SVU.
Speaker 1: I mean, like you've already been a serial killer, so
Speaker 1: it'd be hard to make you like a fun loving
Speaker 1: dad now, although they've done it before.
Speaker 5: No, I mean, at this point, like longevity is the
Speaker 5: thing I'm most interesting. Yeah, you know, I'd like to
Speaker 5: be someone who survives and doesn't go to jail, or
Speaker 5: you know, at least not immediately. I'd I'd love. What
Speaker 5: I really like, what I'm really interested in right now
Speaker 5: is playing just like morally compromised people, So not so
Speaker 5: straight down the barrel of being a psychopath, but someone
Speaker 5: who's morally compromised, caught in a in a terrible set
Speaker 5: of circumstances and trying to navigate that over. You know, like,
Speaker 5: hey guys, five to seven episodes, let's just uh, let's
Speaker 5: just put it out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that would be the dream.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just now, I just thought, maybe like a corrupt
Speaker 2: a corrupt, like a nice arc.
Speaker 4: Vibes your way.
Speaker 2: Well before Kevin Kane became a serious regular, he said
Speaker 2: he wanted to do it on this podcast, and it happened.
Speaker 2: He was on like he was like in a trailer
Speaker 2: and another job, being like I just want to be.
Speaker 4: I think he's literally done sick.
Speaker 1: He's in the credits now, Yeah, different characters on that show.
Speaker 5: I would love so much to be a regular on
Speaker 5: any of of the Dick Wolf shows that shoot in
Speaker 5: New York and just live that life, you know, because
Speaker 5: it's such a blessing to be around and make that
Speaker 5: kind of money when you have a family, and just
Speaker 5: the stability it would provide, like would just be I've
Speaker 5: just never experienced that.
Speaker 1: I could sort of see you on like a procedural
Speaker 1: as like the kind of like maybe the tech guy
Speaker 1: that the medical and like says, we your jokes or whatever.
Speaker 4: A couple of those.
Speaker 1: I've gotten closer, you know, Like I've been watching Slow
Speaker 1: Horses a lot lately. I don't know if you've watched
Speaker 1: that at all, And like, you know how like I
Speaker 1: hate him. I don't think you're hateable like him, but
Speaker 1: somebody like him that's a little bit dorky, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Totally, I could see you doing that. I would love it.
Speaker 1: Not that you seem like a dork in real life.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about what I see in your range.
Speaker 4: And how's your back, By the way, my back is good.
Speaker 4: Think it's good. Okay, yeah, it's good tough surgery.
Speaker 1: Yes, I should be just an acting hype coach where
Speaker 1: I just tell people what I think they could play.
Speaker 1: I'm not actually helping you get better at acting. I'm
Speaker 1: just like, here are things I think you'd.
Speaker 4: Be should be surprised that.
Speaker 2: Actually I was about to say that is what my
Speaker 2: acting good does. That was great. I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: need positive reinforcement.
Speaker 4: Gold giving us so much time. Yeah, I got to go. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you've got to go get your kids. It's two o'clock.
Speaker 5: I really enjoyed it and enjoy meeting you guys. Good
Speaker 5: luck with the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 4: Do you ever see me? If you ever see me please?
Speaker 4: Yeah we will we do. Yeah, I mean, what a
Speaker 4: great guy. Great.
Speaker 1: I just I can't stop meeting serial killers who are
Speaker 1: great in religious I really can't these guys. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're so scary. And then it's like, let's go have
Speaker 1: a drink. But post mortem on this episode.
Speaker 2: Oh, his twins, I mean to have a boy girl
Speaker 2: twin after not being able to have a kid for
Speaker 2: four years.
Speaker 4: That's nice. I'm so happy for him and his wife.
Speaker 2: Beautiful story, and I think he's a pothead, so obviously,
Speaker 2: but no, him and Pablo need to do a job
Speaker 2: and then he needs to be brought back as the Emmy.
Speaker 2: And he said he's gotten close, so like we'll see,
Speaker 2: all right, but a great performance, great understanding.
Speaker 4: I like, I liked him. It was like very exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then post mortem on the episode, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I still like my idea of.
Speaker 1: Like an app where sex workers can check in and
Speaker 1: be geolocated by their friends, Like I need to invent this,
Speaker 1: like I I'm.
Speaker 2: I feel like that could be used as evidence to
Speaker 2: arrest people, like that's the thing.
Speaker 1: We have a government that like. But it so again,
Speaker 1: it has to be like Signal encrypted. I haven't worked
Speaker 1: it all yet out yet. I haven't met with my
Speaker 1: investors yet. I'm still working on the deck. But I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, like something we're like your friends could look
Speaker 1: out for you, like and it's it's like by a
Speaker 1: like the way Signal is encrypted, and like we're not,
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't think, I don't know. There
Speaker 1: has to just be a way for people to look
Speaker 1: out for each other so that they because we just
Speaker 1: do so many episodes where it's like sex workers, sex
Speaker 1: work or sex workers, like these people that people like
Speaker 1: that psychotic men just think, if I'm going to kill,
Speaker 1: why not just do it?
Speaker 4: Why not just do it.
Speaker 1: To these people? And no one's gonna come check it out?
Speaker 2: And it's I think, yeah, I think like all these dudes,
Speaker 2: and I keep saying this but in different ways, but
Speaker 2: like the killers and the cops just really it's like
Speaker 2: the bad guys and the good guys all have the
Speaker 2: same disdain or or like dismissive attitude towards women as people.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, yeah, my my.
Speaker 1: A genre of Instagram reel that I've been interested in
Speaker 1: lately is the only fans girls that are just like
Speaker 1: talking to guys that are like judging them or or
Speaker 1: are like I actually I can't date you, or or
Speaker 1: like Christian girls something that they're bad and them just
Speaker 1: being like bye, like I'm happy, I'm making so much money,
Speaker 1: see you later, Like I don't know, I'm like loving that.
Speaker 2: I love the guys that then get like there was
Speaker 2: one guy, you know, the alpha dudes like within the
Speaker 2: Tate universe, the show up fangirls, but yeah, that one,
Speaker 2: I bet it's this guy. But a girl said something
Speaker 2: that obviously triggered him, and he started screaming at her
Speaker 2: and then he went and I'm not triggered, and I
Speaker 2: would go, that's funny to yell I'm not triggered. You're
Speaker 2: literally the most trigger Oh my god, did you see
Speaker 2: the Jeff Die of it all?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Loser, You're a loser, Jeff Die.
Speaker 2: And if you're one of the nine hundred thousand people
Speaker 2: that follow him on Instagram, please go on following.
Speaker 4: Stop doing that. Stop doing that. He's not funny.
Speaker 1: He's an enemy of every Yeah, terrible human. Okay, so yeah,
Speaker 1: these rhymes are awful, Like what is the post Like?
Speaker 4: Our post mortem is depressing because it's like.
Speaker 1: I know, because it's like it can't be like watch
Speaker 1: out for mummy guys. It's just kind of like watch
Speaker 1: out for guys that are praying on the weakest members
Speaker 1: or the most vulnerable members of our society, you know,
Speaker 1: people that have the least resources because we've criminalized you know.
Speaker 4: What needs to happen.
Speaker 2: Our post mortems should be put on the end of
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan's podcasts. That should be the new law, like
Speaker 2: and all these podcasts like they should end with our
Speaker 2: post mortem.
Speaker 4: So maybe at the end rape can go down. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 4: they just throw it in there. Yeah. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: I just I just read a thing that's like the
Speaker 4: number one podcast again this year. I'm like, how how
Speaker 4: like does it?
Speaker 2: It's fine, It's like fine, be the number one podcast,
Speaker 2: but then stop acting like you're not mass media and
Speaker 2: being like mad at some other news coming. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like acting like you're the underdog still and people
Speaker 2: believing are just a guy because you eat elk.
Speaker 4: It's very annoying.
Speaker 2: I just watched an interview I think it was with
Speaker 2: Patton Oswalt, and they brought him up and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: he was just a guy I did comedy with, Like
Speaker 2: it's he shouldn't be this, and then he goes, I
Speaker 2: knew a guy. I took a class or something. He
Speaker 2: knew a guy that was friends with al Ron Hubbard.
Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, I knew him when he was
Speaker 2: just writing books and kind of being chill, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden he's like in charge of a
Speaker 2: full blown cult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when he was just safe a fantasy fiction writer,
Speaker 1: and now you never know, oopsy doopsy, I'm leading a cult.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I had a friend turned into a white nationalist.
Speaker 2: You really don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you don't know.
Speaker 1: X F okay what they Let's move to what would
Speaker 1: Sister Peg Do? This is a jumbo size episode. Thank
Speaker 1: you for staying with us. Let's get to our what
Speaker 1: would Sister Peg do? You guys know, this is our
Speaker 1: weekly segment where we direct you towards some kind of resource,
Speaker 1: a documentary, a book, an article, or maybe even a
Speaker 1: charity organization where you can give to give you more
Speaker 1: information about what we talked about in today's episode. And
Speaker 1: obviously we just didn't have I don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of mummification references for you, but we do want to
Speaker 1: point you to the short documentary Dollmaker The Anatoly mosque
Speaker 1: Vin Story, which is about one of the cases Lisa
Speaker 1: talked about today, the guy who made the dolls. If
Speaker 1: you're interested in learning more, it's on Apple And if
Speaker 1: you want any more information, you can go watch that
Speaker 1: documentary if you want to know more about this very
Speaker 1: fucked up case, and that will be linked in our
Speaker 1: show notes and in a story and save forever.
Speaker 4: In our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram.
Speaker 2: That's how I didn't ruin everyone's night with the dolls.
Speaker 4: Could have gone without seeing them.
Speaker 1: Then I saw them and now that's it's pretty in
Speaker 1: the group to yeah, say.
Speaker 4: This is so audi.
Speaker 1: This isn't like an an auditory medium that if some
Speaker 1: of you want to see the dolls, you can either
Speaker 1: google it or go watch Dollmaker.
Speaker 2: And next week we'll be doing a Misleader season one
Speaker 2: episode seventeen, Get at It Season one, Baby back to
Speaker 2: the beginning.
Speaker 4: See you next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the podcast on Instagram
Speaker 1: at That's Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at
Speaker 1: Kara Klank and at Glitter Cheese. As always, please see
Speaker 1: our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 4: Thank you so.
Speaker 2: Much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien and our associate
Speaker 2: producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner.
Speaker 2: And to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 2: Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers,
Speaker 2: Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 2: Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun Dun,