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Speaker 1: Cable news is ripping us apart, dividing the nation, making

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Speaker 1: it impossible to function as a society and to know

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Speaker 1: what is true and what is false. The good news

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Speaker 1: is that they're failing and they know it. That is

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Speaker 1: why we're building something new. Be part of creating a new, better, healthier,

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Speaker 1: and more trustworthy mainstream by becoming a Breaking Points Premium

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Speaker 1: member today at breakingpoints dot com. Your hard earned money

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Speaker 1: is going to help us build for the midterms and

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Speaker 1: the upcoming presidential election so we can provide unparalleled coverage

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Speaker 1: of what is sure to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: pivotal moments in American history. So what are you waiting for?

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Speaker 1: Go to Breakingpoints dot com to help us out. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 1: Happy Monday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 1: What do we have, Crystal? Indeed, we do lots of

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Speaker 1: big news breaking this morning. First of all, we have

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Speaker 1: some brand new details about that horrific hammer attack on

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Speaker 1: Paul Pelosi. Will break all of that down for you.

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Speaker 1: We also have some new numbers about the midterm election,

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Speaker 1: showing that Republican messaging does seem to be taking a

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Speaker 1: toll landing a little bit more effectively with voters than

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Speaker 1: Democratic man messaging or lack thereof perhaps is really landing.

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Speaker 1: We also have new developments out of Ukraine, especially with

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Speaker 1: regards to that grain deal that Russia and Ukraine had

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Speaker 1: struck that was allowing at least some grain to be

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Speaker 1: exported out of the country. That has changed. We also

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Speaker 1: have new reports of attacks throughout the country this morning,

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Speaker 1: so we'll break all of that down for you. Big

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Speaker 1: moves with regards to Elon Musk and Twitter, even some

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Speaker 1: new developments this morning about what some of US first

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Speaker 1: moves might be. And we have the results out of

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Speaker 1: that big presidential election down in Brazil. Lula will be

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Speaker 1: the next president. What does that mean? How close was it,

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Speaker 1: Why are the polls right or wrong? What does it

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Speaker 1: all mean? We'll get into all of that. And plus

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Speaker 1: very excited to have Ken Klippenstein here in the studio.

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Speaker 1: Dude just has gotten some crazy scoops lately, and this

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Speaker 1: one I think you all are going to be very

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Speaker 1: very interested in. You remember that whole Misinformation Governance Board

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Speaker 1: thing that supposedly was dismantled, Well, they still decided to

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Speaker 1: do the same thing. They're just not calling it that.

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Speaker 1: And the details of exactly what they are working with

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Speaker 1: tech companies to censor are quite chilling. So he will

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Speaker 1: break all of that down for you in an exclusive

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Speaker 1: for us. But we wanted to start with the new

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Speaker 1: details of that attack on Paul Pelosi. That's right, So

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Speaker 1: lots of questions around that attack. Emily and Ryan did

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Speaker 1: a great job and a snap reaction on Friday, So

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Speaker 1: let's start with the details. We want to start at

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Speaker 1: the very beginning because I know there's still quite a

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Speaker 1: bit of speculation, questions about details are erroneously reported and such,

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Speaker 1: and will start at the very beginning with the San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Police Department. Here was their initial response as to

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Speaker 1: what happened in that attack on Paul Pelosi. Let's take

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Speaker 1: a listen. At approximately two twenty seven this morning, San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Police officers were dispatched to the residents of Speaker

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Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi regarding an a priority well being check. When

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Speaker 1: the officers arrived on seeing they encountered an adult male

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Speaker 1: and mister Pelosi's husband, Paul. Our officers observed Miss Pelosi

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Speaker 1: and the suspect both holding a hammer. The suspect pulled

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Speaker 1: the hammer away from Miss Pelosi and violently assaulted him

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Speaker 1: with it. Our officers immediately tackled the suspect, disarmed him,

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Speaker 1: took him into custody, requested emergency backup, and rendered medical aid.

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Speaker 1: The suspect has been identified as forty two year old

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Speaker 1: David de Peppi. The motive for this attack is still

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Speaker 1: being determined. Mister de Peppy will be booked at the

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Speaker 1: San Francisco County Jail on the following charges Attempted homicide,

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Speaker 1: assault with the daily weapon, elder abuse, burgley, and several

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Speaker 1: other additional felonies. So important stuff A getting charged with

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Speaker 1: attempted burglary, attempted homicide, B that there was a phone

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Speaker 1: call in a wellness check. There were a lot of

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Speaker 1: questions as to why exactly this was her response as

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Speaker 1: a wellness check, and then the suspect's named David depop. Now,

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Speaker 1: in terms of how Paul Pelosi is right now, let's

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Speaker 1: pull this up there on the screen. This was a

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Speaker 1: dear colleague letter sent by a speaker Pelosi to all

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Speaker 1: of her house colleagues yesterday. I'll read it in full,

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Speaker 1: She says, Dear, yesterday morning, a violent man broke into

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Speaker 1: our family home, demand to confront me and brutally attacked

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Speaker 1: my husband, Paul, our children, grandfather, our grandchildren, and I

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Speaker 1: are heartbroken and traumatized by the life threatening attack on

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Speaker 1: our pop. We are grateful for the quick response of

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. Please know the outpouring of prayers. We are

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Speaker 1: comforted by the Book of Isaiah. Do not fear. I

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Speaker 1: am with you. Do not be dismayed or I am

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Speaker 1: your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I

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Speaker 1: will uphold you with my righteous hand. We thank you

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Speaker 1: and pray for the continued safety and well being of

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Speaker 1: our family. Now, the Pelosi family also previously had said

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Speaker 1: that Paul Pelosi had undergone brain surgery. However, his doctors

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Speaker 1: and others saying that he's expected to make a full

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Speaker 1: recovery eighty one years old. Now to the question of

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Speaker 1: the attack itself, let's put this up there. This was

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Speaker 1: one of the major details with a lot of questions.

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Speaker 1: Politico erroneously reported and said, quote officers arrived at the house,

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Speaker 1: knocked on the front door and were let inside by

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Speaker 1: an unknown person, where they discovered to Pap and Pelosi

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Speaker 1: struggling for the hammer, and after they instructed them to

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Speaker 1: drop the weapon, to Pap took the hammer and quote

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Speaker 1: violently attacked Pelosi. So there were a lot of questions

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Speaker 1: there as to who is this son third person? Why

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Speaker 1: was the third person also in the house. However, now

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Speaker 1: in an interview, let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 1: Details getting clarified. Quote San Francisco PD telling NBC that

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Speaker 1: they were just two people in the Pelosi home at

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Speaker 1: the time of the attack, not three as had previously

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Speaker 1: been reported, and that neither the suspect nor Paul Pelosi

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Speaker 1: knew each other prior to the attack. NBC also said

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Speaker 1: that they had confirmed quote zip ties were found on

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Speaker 1: this scene. So that was a follow up on a

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Speaker 1: report about the zip ties, as well as to how

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Speaker 1: exactly and why this was dispatched as a quote wellness check.

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of questions as so why with

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Speaker 1: this was a wellness check and why didn't Paul Pelosi

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Speaker 1: call nine one one. Let's pull the next one up there.

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Speaker 1: Essentially what happened and according to that, this is again

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Speaker 1: according to Pelosi and some of the initial details and

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Speaker 1: all that were a little bit unclear. What happened is

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Speaker 1: is that Pelosi told this guy that he wanted to

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Speaker 1: go David to pav that he wanted to go and

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Speaker 1: to use the bathroom. So while I was in the bathroom,

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Speaker 1: secretly called nine to one one and then left nine

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Speaker 1: one one on speaker essentially, and while he put the

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Speaker 1: phone in his pocket and then went back and was like, Hey,

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Speaker 1: what are you trying to do to me? What are

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Speaker 1: you doing? Why are you here? The nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call operator listens to this and it was like

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Speaker 1: something fishy and weird is going on here right now

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Speaker 1: in Crystal and she then dispatches it as a quote

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Speaker 1: high priority wellness check. That's why it was called in

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Speaker 1: as a wellness check and not necessarily as a confirmed attack.

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Speaker 1: So it seems like a lot of details, right, And

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Speaker 1: it seems like this is also the reason why in

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Speaker 1: the nine to one one call there was a report

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Speaker 1: that this was someone he knew, that it was a friend,

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Speaker 1: and it was also sort of contradictory because it was

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Speaker 1: like they don't know each other, but he says he's

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Speaker 1: a friend. It seems like that confusion may also have

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Speaker 1: come from the fact that essentially what they're saying happened

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Speaker 1: with Paul Pelosi is he was able to dial nine

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Speaker 1: to one one and but wasn't able to say to

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Speaker 1: them like, oh my god, I'm under attack. Help me.

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Speaker 1: He's just able to put it on speakerphone so that

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Speaker 1: they can hear the events unfolding, and he's trying to

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Speaker 1: communicate with his attacker in a way where the nine

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Speaker 1: one one dispatch understands like, oh shit, there's something going on.

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Speaker 1: We got to go help this guy. So originally, for

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Speaker 1: those who have a healthy skepticism official narratives, yes, including me,

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Speaker 1: I would say that the questioned big question marks were

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Speaker 1: this report that there was another person at the house,

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Speaker 1: was like why, who? What's going on there? The nine

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Speaker 1: to one one call where the attacker was referred to

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Speaker 1: as a friend, the fact that it was dispatched as

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Speaker 1: a wellness check. And then there was also another erroneous

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Speaker 1: report that the two men were in their underwear, and

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Speaker 1: there are all kinds of salacious conspiracies out there that

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Speaker 1: this was a gay lover that attacked him. There was

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Speaker 1: a report that Elon Musk will get to that shared

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Speaker 1: from this sort of like you know rag that puts

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Speaker 1: on all kinds of crazy stuff all the time, that

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Speaker 1: was to that effect. At this point, it seems like

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Speaker 1: those conspiracy theories are much more sort of like cope

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Speaker 1: from conservatives who don't want to acknowledge that there was

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Speaker 1: anything ideologically about this guy that may have, you know,

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Speaker 1: mixed with his mental illness to lead to this kind

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Speaker 1: of attack. Because one by one, each of those pieces

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Speaker 1: is at least being debunked by the San Francisco Police Department,

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Speaker 1: And you know, it seems like I continue, Look, I'm

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Speaker 1: open to the idea that there was something else going

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Speaker 1: on here that you know, is more than has been

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Speaker 1: told or more than meet ci et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: But probably the most likely explanation is that you had

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Speaker 1: a guy who's a drug addict, who is mentally ill,

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Speaker 1: who has fallen down a million different Internet conspiracy theory

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Speaker 1: rabbit holes and ended up in this like deranged state. Now,

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Speaker 1: the question I still have is like, where the hell

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Speaker 1: was the security? I mean, that's what's most surprising to me,

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Speaker 1: is like I can't. I am shocked that it would

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Speaker 1: be this easy to gain entry to the Pelosi home.

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Speaker 1: But that's basically, you know, that's what we know this morning.

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Speaker 1: I'm very open and asking questions, as everybody knows. That's

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Speaker 1: why I've spent a lot of time actually putting all

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Speaker 1: these details together. Here's the things that were reported that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were picking up on, including me.

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Speaker 1: I was like, hey, this is very strange. This is

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Speaker 1: very odd, and I think it does stem from the

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Speaker 1: unbelievable nature of you know, the idea that you could

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Speaker 1: break into a person's home who's worth over one hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars, in a six million dollar house in a

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Speaker 1: violent city where crime is way up, and that they

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Speaker 1: don't have any security. I mean, listen, you know, any

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Speaker 1: normal dad who has a ring alarm has better security

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Speaker 1: apparently than these people. So that's a little odd. There's

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Speaker 1: no security camera footage, you know, allegedly, you know, the

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Speaker 1: sliding glass door was broken or at least at some part. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there were pictures of that, right, And it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you break my door, same thing. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm just a guy who can order stuff on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: Like that's going to dispatch a nine one one call,

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Speaker 1: So how exactly does that work? So anyway, I remain

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Speaker 1: incredulous and really like stunned that it's even possible for

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Speaker 1: like a violent break in or something like this to

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Speaker 1: happen to people who have extraordinary high net worth and

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Speaker 1: in line to the presidency, although I guess you should

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Speaker 1: generally always bet on incompetence in some of these situations.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the reports, look again, I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: sympathetic and you know, and stuff coming out on this,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this whole thing just doesn't add up. However,

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Speaker 1: according to the police, and that's a very strong caveat.

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Speaker 1: You know, many of these things are no longer there,

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Speaker 1: I think, And you brought this up this morning. At

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, the body camera footage actually

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Speaker 1: will tell us a lot. It'll tell us everything, you know,

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Speaker 1: exactly whether that details true. Did he start attacking when

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Speaker 1: they got there, do you attack him before? What the

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Speaker 1: position they found themselves in? Who broke the door? Some

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Speaker 1: people said the police broke the door. Some people said

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Speaker 1: that it was David Depopp that broke the door. Also,

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Speaker 1: questions remain about mister Tipop himself we're about to get to,

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Speaker 1: as well as his own like craziness and mental conspiracy

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Speaker 1: combined with obviously a pension for going down internet rabbit holes.

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Speaker 1: Put that together, I think it's a sad attack. I mean,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, look, I don't wish

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Speaker 1: the man ill. He's eighty one years old. That's a

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Speaker 1: tough time to get attacked with the hammer and have

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Speaker 1: to recover the hospital, I would say, so, I would say,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the just derangement of attacking an eighty year

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Speaker 1: old man with a hammer is I mean it really,

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Speaker 1: it really is. And you know, it's not uncommon for

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Speaker 1: in the wake of any of these sorts of events,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a shooting or a crime or an attack

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Speaker 1: like this, for some of the details to be a

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Speaker 1: little garbled in the beginning, right, And so probably the

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Speaker 1: most likely explanation for why some of these pieces were

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Speaker 1: kind of head scratching is that Listen again, I remain

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Speaker 1: open to the idea if the body camera footage comes

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Speaker 1: out and it shows some other things were going on,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't be shocked by that. But to me at

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Speaker 1: this point, Okham's raiser of what likely happened is that they,

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Speaker 1: you know, let their guard down with security, which is

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Speaker 1: hard to hard to wrap your head around, but certainly possible. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: I guess, was out of town, so the secret service

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Speaker 1: detail that normally accompanies her wouldn't have been present, and

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Speaker 1: that this dude, you know, was the toxic comedy of

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Speaker 1: like derangementally ill and then fueled by these right wing

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. And we also should say, like there's an

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Speaker 1: incentive part of the people who were propagating these conspiracy

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Speaker 1: theories and really latched onto them, Well, it's because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to acknowledge that any of the ideological parts

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Speaker 1: that came from the right may have had anything to

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Speaker 1: do with this attack. The thing that always drives me

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Speaker 1: crazy about these incidents and we have just like you know,

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Speaker 1: every time, it's the same thing, everybody goes to the

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Speaker 1: internet looks at what their social media history is. This

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Speaker 1: guy was a prolific writer. He previously had been more

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Speaker 1: of like you know, sort of left wing fringe lunatics.

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Speaker 1: Seems to have made a change. Apparently reportedly gamer Gate

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Speaker 1: shifted him to the right. Now. He was all in

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Speaker 1: on QAnon. He wanted Trump to pick Tulci Gabbard as

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Speaker 1: his vice presidential nominee. He was into, you know, the

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Speaker 1: obsession with like the pedophilia that comes out of q

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Speaker 1: and on the Epstein' stuff certainly is true, but there

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Speaker 1: are parts of that they think that politicians or like

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Speaker 1: eating babies and all this sort of stuff. He went

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Speaker 1: down every internet rabbit hole. You combined that with the

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Speaker 1: mental illness, and I think that seems like the most

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Speaker 1: likely explanation for what ultimately happened here. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: have some of the details about what exactly he was writing.

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Speaker 1: Let's go and put this next up on the screen.

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Speaker 1: They haven't been able to totally verify that these writings

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Speaker 1: were him, but he seems to be the only person

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Speaker 1: by this name living in California. It seems like it

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Speaker 1: goes back to him. You know, he was in on

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Speaker 1: like anti Semitic conspiracy theories suggesting there had been no

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Speaker 1: mass gassing of prisoners at Auschwitz. He reposted a video

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Speaker 1: lecture defending Adolf Hitler. Like I said before, he was

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Speaker 1: you know, picking vice presidential candidates for Donald Trump. He

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Speaker 1: also had those things that weren't political at all. Things,

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Speaker 1: you know, he was like imagining there were fairies that

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Speaker 1: he had produced using an artificial intelligence imaging system. He

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Speaker 1: was tracking culture war issues, talking about Alex Jones's one

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Speaker 1: million dollar defamation judgments. So those are the sorts of

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Speaker 1: you know, political content that he was apparently interested in.

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Speaker 1: And then of course the report from the scene is

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Speaker 1: that he was saying, where's Nancy, and that's why people

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Speaker 1: are drawing this conclusion that his ideology connected to the attack,

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Speaker 1: although we should be clear the police haven't said that

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Speaker 1: they have They have not asserted a motive yet, so

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Speaker 1: I think that's important to well. I mean, look, I

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Speaker 1: mean does it is the motive belied by the fact

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Speaker 1: that she's a speaker. Of course, it has to be

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Speaker 1: part of the reason from what we've seen right now.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's also San Francisco. It's not a

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Speaker 1: crazy idea to have a crazy person breaking your house

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Speaker 1: as almost drug. Yeah, but when you're running around with

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Speaker 1: a hammer and these kind of post things and you're saying,

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Speaker 1: where's Nancy, I mean, there's pretty logical and you put

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Speaker 1: it together. Yeah, I think so. I mean, just in general,

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Speaker 1: this like disgusting dash by everybody to go and see

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Speaker 1: like what somebody used to watch and blame it on

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Speaker 1: that person as to their motive for the attack. I

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Speaker 1: generally think is insane. Like, you know, look, people are

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Speaker 1: crazy in this country. There's like three hundred and thirty

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Speaker 1: million people. Like it's not always about ideology. It's Noternie

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Speaker 1: Sanders fault that James Hodgkinson like shot up a bunch

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Speaker 1: of congressman just because he happens like Bernie, Like it

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Speaker 1: reminds us, it reminds me, it reminds me of the

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Speaker 1: Gabby Giffords, Yeah, shooting, where this guy there was an

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Speaker 1: ideological component combined with mental illness, and you know, all

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Speaker 1: of these things, like there's there's a real human desire

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Speaker 1: to understand how someone could do this thing. And the

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Speaker 1: truth of the matter is, you're never really gonna get

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Speaker 1: what leads a person to attack an eighty year old

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Speaker 1: man with a hammer, Like you're never really going to

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Speaker 1: be able to wrap your head around it. Now, some

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Speaker 1: of these attacks that we've seen were much work, like

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Speaker 1: clearly ideolized. They write a whole manifesto and they lay

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Speaker 1: out like I'm a white supremacist and I want to

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Speaker 1: start a race war, and mental illness may be a

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Speaker 1: factor there, but it's actually less of a factor than

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Speaker 1: they've convinced themselves that there are some like warrior for

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Speaker 1: their race or whatever ideological nonsense that they've fed themselves on.

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Speaker 1: And then there's instances like this where you know, the

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Speaker 1: mental illness combines with the ideological inclination to lead to

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Speaker 1: this like hate fueled attack and that you really can't

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Speaker 1: separate the two, and it sort of irritates me when

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Speaker 1: people want to latch onto just exclusively one explanation or

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Speaker 1: the other because it's convenient for whatever their particular hobbyhorse

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Speaker 1: or narrative. Ultimately is Elon Musk taking control of Twitter.

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Speaker 1: Let's put this up there on the screen. Lots of

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Speaker 1: questions originally about content moderation. I thought it was kind

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Speaker 1: of hilarious that one of the very first things that

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Speaker 1: he announces is that Twitter will be forming a content

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Speaker 1: moderation council with widely diverse viewpoints. No major content decisions

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Speaker 1: or account reinstatements will happen before that council convenes, So

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Speaker 1: essentially Elon takes control of Twitter and then institutes Crystal,

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Speaker 1: the exact same policy that Mark Zuckerberg has over at

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Speaker 1: Facebook by picking it to some fake oversight board. I

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Speaker 1: guess the only redeeming thing that you could say is

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Speaker 1: that this oversight board might actually have ideological diversity. But

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Speaker 1: even then, you know, trying to create quasi governmental institutions

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Speaker 1: and essentially what are private companies just always seems ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's up to suck

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Speaker 1: whether Trump gets banned or not. I think you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying it should be this way, but I

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Speaker 1: was saying, under current law and all this, stop trying

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Speaker 1: to insulate yourself. You bought the platform, you own it.

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Speaker 1: Now you have to own all the problems. You know.

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Speaker 1: There's an interesting story Bob Iger, who is a chairman

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Speaker 1: of Disney. Back in like twenty seventeen, Disney almost bought Twitter.

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Speaker 1: They were at like near the closing oh final yeah,

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Speaker 1: and at the last minute Iiger just called him Jack Dors.

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Speaker 1: He's like, you know what, I just don't want to

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Speaker 1: deal with this because what he realized is that this

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Speaker 1: one billion dollar business would become a massive headache for him,

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Speaker 1: that he would have to litigate what gets banned and

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Speaker 1: what doesn't, and content moderation, which would then go on

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Speaker 1: to effect the overall you know, that could then have

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Speaker 1: spillover effects on people boycotting the Lion King. And he

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Speaker 1: was like, you know what, and he was right. I

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Speaker 1: thought he made the right call. So anyway, the point

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Speaker 1: is is that at the end of the day, this

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Speaker 1: is always going to remain complicated. Now news out of

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Speaker 1: the actual newsroom itself, let's put this up there, which

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Speaker 1: is that Elon has said to have ordered job cuts

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Speaker 1: across Twitter. It's actually unclear the level. You know, Originally

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Speaker 1: some had said there were going to be seventy five

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Speaker 1: percent layoffs are going to be beginning pretty much as

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Speaker 1: soon as possible, rumors obviously going around. The fact of

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Speaker 1: the matter was whether Elon took it over or not.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people were getting fired at Twitter, regardless,

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Speaker 1: that was based on that leaked document that came out.

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Speaker 1: Paragagawall essentially had no choice either, given the state of

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Speaker 1: their business. Advertising rates are going to record lows. It

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Speaker 1: was funny, you know, whenever he went ahead and fired

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Speaker 1: the CEO, Agar Walla and Vijaiyagade, who you know, I've

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Speaker 1: had my own issues and troubles with here on the show. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out that originally they were set to have

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Speaker 1: these massive severance packages to the tune of over one

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars total. However, let's put this up there.

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Speaker 1: Apparently Elon fired them, not just not he didn't fire

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Speaker 1: them in the way that they would have had to

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Speaker 1: to get their pay their severance packages. He fired them

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Speaker 1: quote for cause, which legally gives him some ground to

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Speaker 1: argue that he doesn't then need to pay them out

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Speaker 1: nearly one hundred million dollars in severance get to the

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Speaker 1: total group. They don't get their little golden parachutes. But

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Speaker 1: don't worry everyone, It's not like they hadn't been getting

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Speaker 1: paid fantastically well. Va Jayagade, the chief censor, who you

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Speaker 1: know everyone can remember from the Joe Rogan podcast. She

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Speaker 1: was getting paid like seventeen million dollars a year. Agarwalla

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Speaker 1: himself also multimillionaire many times over. So all these people

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Speaker 1: are fine. I do not cry for them. For the

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Speaker 1: lowly engineers, I feel somewhat bad. However, really what we're

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Speaker 1: seeing is that a they were probably going to lose

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Speaker 1: their job anyway, but this morning really only in the

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Speaker 1: last twenty four hours, some interesting news is broken and

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Speaker 1: we don't have an element for And I'm curious your

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Speaker 1: thoughts on this, which is that at the very least,

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Speaker 1: they are considering charging verified users for ninety nine a

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Speaker 1: month basically to keep access to their verified badge. One

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Speaker 1: report from the Verge this morning is they are considering

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Speaker 1: twenty dollars a month to charge It is a lot.

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Speaker 1: What four hundred thousand users something like that. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: think it's more than that. It's a lot more than

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Speaker 1: four hundred thousand verified days. I think it might even

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Speaker 1: honestly be like over a million. Anyway. So the point

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Speaker 1: is is that why why would they consider that? I

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Speaker 1: actually think it's a very elegant solution which gets at

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Speaker 1: what is the actual value of Twitter. On many other

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Speaker 1: social media platforms, Instagram, others, there is I think a

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Speaker 1: decent case for somebody who doesn't have a real following

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Speaker 1: to make them you know, I had an Instagram account

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Speaker 1: far before or whatever in this job, you know, in

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Speaker 1: order to keep up with friends. Same with Facebook, same

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Speaker 1: with even TikTok. To a certain extent, On Twitter, the

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Speaker 1: value creation is amongst those like one percent of users

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Speaker 1: who tweet all the time, right, and then everybody follows

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Speaker 1: those people for information. Well, then the value to accounts

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Speaker 1: like your mind, which has hundreds of thousands of followers,

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Speaker 1: would be the access to this audience. You know, at

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Speaker 1: this point, what do we really use Twitter? What real

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Speaker 1: value does Twitter have for us? Frankly, not that much

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Speaker 1: beyond you know, getting myself in trouble, but at best,

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Speaker 1: what is an efficient way for me or you to

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Speaker 1: promote breaking points, our live shows and announcement. Right, So

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Speaker 1: the value creation there is like we use their platform

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Speaker 1: to have accessed all these people. It used to be

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Speaker 1: they would place ads, but now really what it would

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Speaker 1: be is like, no, we're going to have to charge you.

430
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: Like any enterprise software, essentially you had a need to

431
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,960
Speaker 1: pay us to have that priority access to your people.

432
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: First of all, it is actually only three hundred and

433
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: sixty thousand. Oh they're verified. Only about zero point two

434
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 1: percent they say, of Twitter's monetizable daily active users are verified.

435
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 1: So at least in terms of active users, only three

436
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 1: innerd sixty thousand accounts are verified. This is according to

437
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 1: c net is where I'm getting this information, so it's

438
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: a smaller number than I would have expected as well, millions.

439
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 1: There's a lot to say about this. First of all,

440
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: at this point, my main value that I get on

441
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: a Twitter isn't even from my own tweeting or promotion

442
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: of what we do. It's more from just being able

443
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: to source stories. Yeah, and take a pulse of what

444
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: at least the super online people are obsessing over. You know,

445
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 1: it can be useful to see, like what the topics

446
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: of conversation are see what other smart people are saying

447
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: about various issues. It's actually very helpful with breaking news

448
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: because you get information faster on Twitter than you do

449
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 1: on other platforms. None of that actually has to do

450
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: with me having a blue check by my name, like

451
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: that I can all get access to without having the

452
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: blue check mark. So that's one piece. Bigger picture. What

453
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about is the fact that you know,

454
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 1: last weekend, I think Ryan and Emily covered this. Immediately

455
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: after Elon buys Twitter and he's had all this rhetoric

456
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: about free speech, et cetera, he immediately puts out this

457
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: like letter to advertisers is basically like, no, no, no,

458
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm really not going to change. It's going to be fine.

459
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: You can still advertise here. It's still going to be

460
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 1: all good. Which was a reminder to me that you know, ultimately,

461
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: if you're trying to turn a profit, the business is

462
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 1: structured in a certain way, has certain incentives, like the

463
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: content moderation policy that comes out of these plays platforms.

464
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't just like fall from the ether or even

465
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: from the whims of these individual billionaires who you know,

466
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: ultimately they have the decision making power, but it comes

467
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 1: out of the business model and the incentives that are

468
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: inherent to that business model. Advertisers are worried about, just

469
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: like on YouTube when they had apocalypse, about like having

470
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 1: their add place next to some crazy like conspiracy theorists

471
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: or white nationalist or whatever. And so that leads these

472
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: platforms to be more cautious and more censorious than they

473
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 1: should be if your real concern wasn't profit, but it

474
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 1: was the functioning of a healthy and vibrant society and democracy,

475
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: those two things are sort of always going to be

476
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: at odds and attention, and so to me, when I

477
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: saw Elon immediately put out this like letter to advertisers,

478
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 1: it was just a reminder of the fact that like,

479
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: the business model is what it is, and as long

480
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: as it's in the business of being you know, a

481
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: public company and caring first and foremost about profit, you

482
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: probably only expect so much of a change to what

483
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: the content moderation policies are, which is why you know,

484
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: the model of having all of our are sort of

485
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: like he calls it, the digital town square. I think

486
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 1: it's absolutely right about that, subject to the whims of

487
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: profit versus making decisions about what would be best for

488
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: the country. Why that is always going to lead to

489
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: an inferior outcome no matter who is in charge. I

490
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: totally agree, which is part of why I would want

491
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 1: some sort of recurring revenue. That being said, right, still

492
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: not that hard. So I just went ahead and did

493
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 1: you know some like back of the napkin math, like

494
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: even three hundred and sixty thou at twenty you're only

495
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: talking about and I know this sounds silly, hundreds of millions,

496
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 1: but like that's not enough in order to right just

497
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: by a forty four billion dollar purchase. And you're right

498
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: that the way. So if you wanted to have different

499
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: incentives and not end up with basically the same content

500
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: moderation policy with maybe a few tweaks around the edges

501
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: you let Trump back on or you let Kanye back

502
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,160
Speaker 1: on or whatever, you would have to change the business model.

503
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: You would have to make it. I mean, these are

504
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: things we thought about a lot when we set up this,

505
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: and it is analogous in a lot of ways. You

506
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 1: have to have it your revenue dependent on something else,

507
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: Like if you had people who were willing to pay

508
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: for the service and they're more interested in the quality

509
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: of the service than like whether advertisers are going to

510
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 1: be comfortable. Well, that changes the incentives, and it might

511
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: ultimately change what the content moderation policy is. That makes sense,

512
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: So I don't think that, you know, charging people for

513
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: the blue check mark is probably sufficient to really change

514
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: what the ultimate incentives are. But moving in that direction,

515
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: it would also really change if you leaned into it

516
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: being a like paid subscription service. I mean, that would

517
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: really change what Twitter ultimately. I think it would have

518
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: to be enterprise change. So it's free for most people,

519
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: but you charge. Here's the other thing. It'd be a

520
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: very elegant solution. Ap and Reuter's all right, you guys

521
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: need to pay. You need to pay a hell of

522
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: a lot of money now in order to distribute guess

523
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: what I think they would pay it. I really knew.

524
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean, at the end of the day, that's where

525
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: the people are, that's where people go for news. It's

526
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: basically the best news platform that has ever existed on

527
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: planet Earth. Charge them the hell of a lot of money, yeah,

528
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: to do it? Dare them? I mean, honestly, I think

529
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: they fold and they pay. They could pay frankly millions

530
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 1: of dollars in order to do so. Just because they understand. However,

531
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: some of the value is based on everybody being there.

532
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: But I think the flaw from the beginning was that

533
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, the vast

534
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: majority people like us, you know, in the top one

535
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: percent or whatever of Twitter users, both from a posting

536
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: and a follower perspective, like we are creating the vast

537
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: majority the quote value onset platform, even though whatever value

538
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: is for us, clearly people don't follow us for no

539
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: reason right for some reason that they're doing well that's

540
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: worth something to us. I think it's an elegant solution

541
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,239
Speaker 1: to try and put a dollar amount on that. I

542
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: like where their head is at at least from that example,

543
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: because as you and I have found out, a subscription

544
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: business is anti fragile in many ways. It doesn't matter,

545
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: you know, as cancelations are what they are, but relative

546
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: churn is not that out low, and you have money

547
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: coming in through the door. If you lock it into

548
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: a certain extent, it's much more reliable. Some of the

549
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: most you know why you think software as a service

550
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: businesses are worth many, many multiples over that. That's why

551
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: advertising platforms really only work at a tremendous scale which

552
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: is essentially monopoly Google, Facebook, you know, even Snapchat to

553
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: a certain extent. You can see like they may be booming,

554
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: but if ad rates go down by forty percent, your

555
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: stock goes off of a cliff. Anyway, I'm mostly just

556
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: musing here. I think it's interesting, you know, full disclover.

557
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: I know some of the people who were involved in

558
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: making these decisions. I haven't spoken to them about it

559
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I don't want anybody to think I'm

560
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: chilling on behalf of my friends. It does make sense though,

561
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: that we all kind of think about things similarly. So Yeah,

562
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: and I guess it's also worth saying. Remember they tried

563
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: that thing of like what are they Twitter blue the

564
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,399
Speaker 1: power user of the super follow like a tipping function. Yeah,

565
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: where it's like or you can pay to get like

566
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: special tweets from the people you really care that didn't

567
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 1: really that didn't panis not enough value. You got to

568
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: get something real. I mean, you and I see this,

569
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: which is that like our premium subs in terms of

570
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: the way that we charge, like a you're paying support

571
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: our work. Number one at the court. You have to

572
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: believe in the mission. That's what you're doing and we're

573
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: actually far more upfront than most people. We're like, here,

574
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: here's what your money is getting spent on. You know,

575
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: we did our one year anniversary thing where we were like, hey, everybody,

576
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: here's what we say. Here's cameras that we bought. Here's

577
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: the people though, here's exactly how much money that we

578
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: doled out on X, Y and Z. Nice desk they're

579
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: sitting here. The point being that we had I think

580
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: of much more explicit value. And then most people were like, hey,

581
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: if you just like my work, throw us something in

582
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: our experience. You can't do that. You have to be

583
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: very upfront and really give people your reason as to

584
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: what they're doing and why and what they want to

585
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: buy into. Right and also you premium subscribers can tell

586
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: us that we're wrong, but you know, it seems like

587
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 1: what people are really paying for is their belief in

588
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 1: what you're doing. I mean, we do a lot to

589
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: make sure the premium experience is you know, it's ad free,

590
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: you get it early. We do the AMA like, we

591
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: do a lot to make it special and give you perks.

592
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: But I think at core people are just are paying

593
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: for We support the project and we want to be

594
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: part of building it together, so there isn't quite an

595
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: analogous thing going on on Twitter. And then there's the

596
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: other piece of like you know, we get our content

597
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: on YouTube is monetized through their ad revenn content on

598
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: the podcasting platforms is monetized in a similar way through

599
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: like arm's length ad revenue there as well. But we also,

600
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: obviously our primary goal isn't can we how much profit

601
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: can we stick out of our audience? Whereas if you're

602
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: a public company, that's definitely going to be your thing.

603
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: So even if you have enough subscription revenue where you

604
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: don't you know, it's a good profitable business without even

605
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: really worrying about the advertisers, they're still going to worry

606
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 1: about the advertisers because they want to be able to

607
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: juice it as much as possible. So anyway, I don't

608
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: an nv Elung's task at this point. I think he

609
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: stepped into quite a complex and difficult situation, both from

610
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: a business perspective and also trying to square his purported

611
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: stated values with you know, the reality of what you

612
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: have to do when you run any of these platforms,

613
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: and you know, bottom line, I don't think we should

614
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: be counting on Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or any

615
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: other plutocrat for our quote unquote free speech, because as

616
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: our friend Aggor told me, like, how free is your

617
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: speech when you're dependent on a billionaire for it? Not

618
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: very free? Ultimately, so joining us now in studio, we

619
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: have our great friend Ken Klippenstein, who is an investigative

620
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: reporter for the Intercept. Great to see in my friend.

621
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: Great to be with you. Guys. You got a big

622
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: old scoop this morning, a lot to unpack here, and

623
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: it's quite explosive. Actually, let's go ahead and put the

624
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: element we have up on the screen. The article does

625
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: out this morning is titled truth Cops Leaked documents outlined

626
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: DHS's plans to police did some information. Some of the

627
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: key takeaways here that you have Ken are that even

628
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: though DHS said that they shuddered their quote unquote Disinformation

629
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: Governance Board, what you have found is that underlying work

630
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: is still going on. You also found some of the

631
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: specifics about what they're targeting here on the origins of

632
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen, efficacy of COVID nineteen, vaccine, racial justice, US

633
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: withdrawal from Afghanistan, and also the nature of US support

634
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 1: to Ukraine. So just to start with, what are your

635
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: sources here? What's the information that you were able to

636
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: gather and give us the big picture of what the

637
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: government is up to here. Yeah, so this came from

638
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: sources that I have within DHS, FBI, and also court

639
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: records that are coming out from an investigation by I

640
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: think it was the Missouri Attorney General looking at these

641
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: things and under discovery they're able to release some of

642
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: the primary source documents that they're getting and then just

643
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of big strategy assessments that they

644
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: tend to put out that nobody reads because so much

645
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: of it is so boring. But if you can, you know,

646
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: stay awake for long enough, you can find some really

647
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: interesting details in them. Interesting. Okay, So talk to us

648
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: about this portal. You said that Facebook has created a

649
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: special portal for DHS and government partners to report disinformation directly.

650
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: Do we have an indication that's still in existence? Like

651
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: the takeaway from me from the story was they fired

652
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: you know, the Nina Jankow witch lady, but they essentially

653
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: just renamed it and are keeping the entire project alive

654
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: and actually keeping it going even far past that Yeah,

655
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: that was essentially my interest in doing this story is

656
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: I saw this huge end zone dance on the part

657
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: of you know, civil libertarian types that the Disinformation Governance Board,

658
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: you know, very willing and title that people can get

659
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: around and see how you know, crazy, this is celebrating

660
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: that it was shut down, and I very quickly, almost instantly,

661
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: was hearing from sources within DHS that that's not the case,

662
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: like that that Disinformation Government's Board was an attempt to

663
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: sort of centralize informalize at a leadership and headquarters level

664
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: what was going on, but that was still going on

665
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: at the component level of all of the different child

666
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: agencies that are within DHS. So this story is an

667
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: attempt to try to sketch out Okay, so what does

668
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: that mean? What does it look like? Because there's so

669
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: much speculation and sort of guessing as to what it is,

670
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 1: and there's very little in the way of just what

671
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: are the facts of what's happening, How are they doing

672
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: this and what is their authority? So lay that out

673
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: for us. How does this actually like? What are the

674
00:32:55,120 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: interactions between DHS officials and these tech plots forms, what

675
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: sorts of content are they flagging? As potentially problematic because

676
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: they have these disclaimers in their emails like of course,

677
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: we're not telling you to sense or we're just saying

678
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: you might want to look into this. Give me like

679
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: a specific example of how this might all unfold. Yeah,

680
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 1: So they've been having bi weekly meetings as recently a summer.

681
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: That's as recently as they'm able to get proof. Doesn't

682
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: mean that it's not still happening. I assume it still

683
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: is between these DHS sub agencies kind of take taking

684
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: point is SISA, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, but

685
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: also FBI and other agencies are meeting with these social

686
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: media companies like Twitter and Facebook, YouTube. And it's what's

687
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: interesting about it is, just like you said, their rationale

688
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: for it is, you know, we're not actually telling them

689
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: what to do, we're just recommending it and suggestions. Right,

690
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: And it's so disingenuous because it's like these companies are

691
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: lobbying the federal government on different things. You think they're

692
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: not going to you think they're gonna want to alienate

693
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: the guys that they're trying very hard to ingratiate themselves

694
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: to to get certain forms of treatment. And so that's

695
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: the kind of like hands length that they try to

696
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: pull themselves at. Is it we're not mandating it, We're

697
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: just recommending it. But when you look at the documents

698
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: that we found, there's no indication that the social media

699
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: companies are saying, WHOA, we're not doing this, we're putting

700
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: at redline here. They've gone ahead with it. I mean,

701
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: the crazy one to me is Afghanistan. Right, you know

702
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: the fact that things that are outright just politically bad

703
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: for the Biden administration are being included in terms of recommendations.

704
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: So do we know does anything happen as a result

705
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: of this, Like what does the data suggest did Facebook

706
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: ultimately take action? Like what do they describe the type

707
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 1: of aption, what is the what does the interplay look

708
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: like on behalf of the tech companies as to the

709
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 1: actual effect of these policies. Well, on the public side,

710
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: sometimes you're able to see when they literally just take

711
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: a post down, as they did with the under Biden

712
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: laptop story. It was some bizarre thing where it was

713
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: like they froze the posts. They didn't take it down.

714
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: It's all they're so about these things. They don't they

715
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: try to do things where they're not actually taking out.

716
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: For example, I have a source in Google who is

717
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: describing to me they didn't actually make it so you

718
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: can't find it. They just made it so that the

719
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: search results put it so far down out realistically you're

720
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: not going to see it. So then they say, well,

721
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: we're not actually censoring it. You can still go to it.

722
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: We're just in effect going to make it so no

723
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: one can find It's just crazier. It's just crazier than

724
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: to deleting. Same with you know, same with Twitter and

725
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: these So there's always I think there is a lot

726
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: of awareness on their part that we don't want to

727
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 1: go like so far that it's going to be completely

728
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: naked and try to give ourselves some deniability in terms

729
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: of saying, you know, we're putting recommendations out there, we're

730
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: throttling traffic to it, we're not taking it down. So

731
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: they really like to operate in the gray. I think well,

732
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: because honestly, if Twitter had taken that approach with the

733
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 1: Hunter Biden story, it probably wouldn't have blown up into

734
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 1: the big national example of censorship that it ended up being,

735
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: because they want much further than let's just suppress this

736
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: in the algorithm Let's make it so this isn't the

737
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: first thing that's showing up. You know, now people in

738
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: their Twitter feed, unless they select to have it just

739
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: by time, they're just getting the tweets that Twitter thinks

740
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: that they will like or wants them to like and see. So, ultimately,

741
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: if they had gone about it in a savvier way,

742
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what's so nefarious about this. People wouldn't

743
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: have even been able to really say exactly what was

744
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: going on here. One of the other things that you

745
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: uncover is the Hunter Biden censorship incident. As notorious as

746
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 1: it ultimately is here, the people who are involved in

747
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: that are still involved in this project, right. And so

748
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,839
Speaker 1: the FBI has something called the Foreign Influenced Task Force,

749
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: which the Department of Homeland Security does as well, and

750
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 1: it's almost exactly the same name. I think it's the

751
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: countering for an interference task Force. And so what that

752
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: gives you a sense of is the burgeoning nature of

753
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: these authorities. It just keeps growing, and if you look

754
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: at it, a lot of it starts in twenty eighteen

755
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: under the Trump administration, so a little more complicated than

756
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: people think. That's not to say that Trump liked it.

757
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: He actually fired his CECA director, I think Brian Krebs,

758
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: and so you know, he was against it, but he

759
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: didn't have the kind of bureaucratic let's just say, to

760
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: be able to stop a lot of these things, and

761
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 1: then it you know, continues to proliferate under the Biden administration.

762
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: I think that the origin of this all is, you know,

763
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen election disinformation, Russian election disinformation, not that

764
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: it starts in but that's sort of when the concerns begin,

765
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: and then by twenty eighteen come midterms. I think DHS

766
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: is trying to position itself as hey, you know that

767
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: problem you guys have, we can help with it. Let

768
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: us let us handle this. So then in twenty eighteen

769
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: it's the midterm elections. In by twenty twenty with coronavirus,

770
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: then they have a really strong case. And I've looked

771
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: at polling on this, it does suggest that they're surprisingly

772
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: large amounts of public support for frankly censorship of you know,

773
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: would they consider COVID disinformation. I think that they can

774
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: sense that there's an opening for them there to to

775
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: you know, take advantage of that and say, hey, let

776
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: us let us have a role in you know, communicating

777
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 1: with these social media platforms. I mean, it seems to me,

778
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: and you tell me if this timeline is inaccurate. But

779
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, you first start in the early days of

780
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: social media, you've got like al Qaida and ISIS, and

781
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 1: there's an effort to find people who are sympathizer or

782
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: spreading their propaganda or beheading videos or whatever. Like that's

783
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: the first step. Then you have the Russian efforts, whatever

784
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: they amounted to in the twenty sixteen election, and then

785
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: you know, that's a further step of Okay, we got

786
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: to see who's sharing this Russian content and what impact

787
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: is that having. Well, now this seems to have gone

788
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: even a further step where there's no even artifice of

789
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: this has to do with foreign actors, Like we're talking

790
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 1: about American citizens talking to other American citizens without even

791
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: any sort of tie to potential international terrorism, which seems

792
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:41,280
Speaker 1: to be where these programs really originally had their origins exactly,

793
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: And that's where DHS had its origin. It's a you know,

794
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: counter terror post nine to eleven department. And if you

795
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: look at some of the documents that I referenced in

796
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: the story, I got the I was given the Quadrenial

797
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: Review for DHS that kind of sketches out the next

798
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: four years what the next four years are going to

799
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: look like, and with their kind of big picture strategy

800
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: is and they're perfectly open in this draft document about that, Okay,

801
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: we'll warrant terror is sort of ramping down. We're going

802
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: to change our focus essentially the domestic American affairs. And

803
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: what's interesting about that shift from foreign to domestic is

804
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: that I tried very hard to find anything in the

805
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: way of documentary or legal basis saying Okay, now we're

806
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: authorizing this. It doesn't exist as far as I can tell.

807
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: It was just a gradual shift that is happening at

808
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: the sub White House level, at the administrative level in

809
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: both the Trump and Biden administrations. And I wonder how

810
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: much people even know that that it's happening. It's like

811
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: they've taken advantage of this, and then, as I said before,

812
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: Trump tried to, you know, stop it. They disbanded the

813
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: Disinformation Board. But so much of this happens at the

814
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 1: level that you know, people like me who have sources

815
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: and are talking to people can can find out that

816
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: it's happening. But there's no way for the public to

817
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: know these things are still going there. Yeah, I'm one

818
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: of the ones that broke out to me at the

819
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: very end of the story is about a Twitter account

820
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: that has like fifty six followers and that they is

821
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: specifically flagged by government affair sent to Twitter, and Twitter

822
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: is like, we will escalate this. Thank you. A guy

823
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: who's literally fifty six followers, Like, how is that? In

824
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 1: what way? Who says in his bio like this is

825
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: a parody account and buy something about like weed stores.

826
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: Those be mad, this is a parody account, And why

827
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 1: are they spending any time under a banner image of Blucifer,

828
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: a demonic horse featured at the entrance of Denver Airport.

829
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: You have to have something better to do than this.

830
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: You're not the only ones that think that this is

831
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: outraging y FBI agentsI I interviewed during when all that

832
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: was happening, who themselves were tasked with things like, you know,

833
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: tracking foreign spies. They were outraged that they were put

834
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: into these temporary units to monitor these social media accounts.

835
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: And they were telling me, yeah, it's clear my boss

836
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have any idea like what irony is on the internet.

837
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: Or like what sarcasm is because you know, my job

838
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: now is just tracking commedy kids six y nine posts

839
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: something to respond like it's some national security crisis. So

840
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: they were very irritated by it as well, and there

841
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: were minunderstandings. There were a lot of FBI agents that

842
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: were you know, taken from their normal responsibilities and assigned

843
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: to this kind of stuff. Well, I said to you,

844
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: it's like dystopian police state meets Keystone cops exactly. But

845
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: the fact that it in some ways is like absurd

846
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: doesn't take away from the fact that it's really really disturbing,

847
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: because effectively, what you have is a worst of all

848
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: worlds where you know, we covered extensively on this elon

849
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: Musk and Twitter and billionaires control these platforms that are

850
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: so essential to our speech. And then so not only

851
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: do you not have any democratic accountability there, but then

852
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: you also have the government directly interfacing with them and

853
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,919
Speaker 1: shaping what type of speech is allowed and what type

854
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: of speech is not allowed, again with zero transparency, zero

855
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: ability to have democratic pushback. And so that's why you know,

856
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: reporting like yours at least gives us a little bit

857
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: of a window into what's happening here is oldtime so

858
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: essential Ken, Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do, just

859
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 1: give because I realized there was no attempt to sort

860
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: of give a comprehensive picture of like what's out there,

861
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 1: what are we able to find, what the heck's going on?

862
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: And in the absence of that, people are going to just,

863
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: you know, guess And that's I mean, if you're really

864
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: worried about disinformation, I tend to think darkness is where

865
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: that stuff thrives, you know, when people are in candid

866
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: about what the heck is going on. I mean, my

867
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: view has always been like, if you are going to

868
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: accept the slings and throat and arrows of a democracy,

869
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: you have to accept that sometimes there's going to be

870
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: things that are crazy conspiracy theory, there's going to be

871
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: things that are inaccurate, and you have to have enough

872
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: faith in the citizenry that they can handle that, that

873
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: they can process, that that they can move forward, that

874
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: they can find accurate information. But you know, clearly, like

875
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: we've been under this attempts at censorship since basically twenty sixteen,

876
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: and I don't know if you guys know this, but

877
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: there are a lot of conspiracy theories that are out

878
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: there still thriving, so I'm not sure that this is

879
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 1: really worth it. Very very fortunate, Ken, thank you so much. Congratulations,

880
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 1: great reporting. All right, let's go and move on to

881
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: the next part. This is really and potentially earth shattering

882
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: in terms of its impact on American society. Let's put

883
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,280
Speaker 1: this up there on the screen. So the Supreme Court,

884
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 1: the conservative majority there signaling major skepticism of race conscious

885
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: college admissions. So what happened yesterday, which is that at

886
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: issue are these two policies Harvard University and the University

887
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: of North Carolina that permit their admissions offices to weigh

888
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: the race of applicants as one of many factors that

889
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: will help decide who is being accepted. Depending on the

890
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: scope of the Court's ruling, and this is important, they

891
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 1: could rule in many different ways. The outcome could have

892
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: impact on workplace and other long standing quote anti discrimination law.

893
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 1: And I want to be very clear, which is that

894
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,280
Speaker 1: how exactly they rule in the scope through which could

895
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: restrict it completely two admissions This is why we've been

896
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: spending any time covering it, or it could go all

897
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: the way out into the way that diversity practices work.

898
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: Even at a quote unquote private company anyway. So there

899
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: are over five hours of arguments. I was even considering

900
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: doing a monologue, but the arguments weren't wrapping up, and

901
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't do it, you know. I

902
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: was like, I can't do a whole monologue on this

903
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: until it's actually done. Luckily it ended last night. What

904
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: we effectively noted is that the conservatives on the bench,

905
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: we're talking about the two thousand and three precedent that

906
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 1: does permit the use of race and college admissions that

907
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: had urged policies should not be in place indefinitely. So

908
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: what we should remember is that in that two thousand

909
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: and three case, effectively the court was like, Okay, you

910
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: can keep in mind race, you cannot use points based admissions.

911
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: That's just not on the table. But to say that

912
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 1: you can't keep it in mind at all is not

913
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: going to happen. That said, you do not. You need

914
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: to come up with a system so that you don't

915
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,440
Speaker 1: rely on this indefinitely. And what I found really interesting

916
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: in the court and a lot of the arguments that

917
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,479
Speaker 1: I was looking at, is that none of the none

918
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 1: of the universities, neither Harvard nor the University of North

919
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: Carolina could actually spell out a timeframe as to when

920
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: it was going to be appropriate or not. Yeah, but

921
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, no, right, go ahead. Kind of fair. No,

922
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: that's like being like, on this state in twenty thirty two,

923
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: we will have total racial justice. We will have solved racism.

924
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: So I mean it would it's kind of fair to

925
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: be like, I don't know, We're not there yet, but

926
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: hopefully at some point in the future we get to that.

927
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: I don't even disagree, but I was looking at it

928
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, that just part to

929
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: me makes the whole idea of the three case, being

930
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: like yeah, but it eventually has to end just even

931
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: more patently ridiculous because you're probably always make an argument.

932
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: So like, okay, so then we should consider it on

933
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: what is the actual impact. This goes to the Harvard

934
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: University portion of which we've covered now for several years,

935
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: which is that Harvard by you know, from the lawsuit

936
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: and the court rulings and all that have come out,

937
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: it has been shown repeatedly that it is highly discriminatory

938
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 1: against Asian American students by giving them lower scores for

939
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: quote personal actes. I mean some of the stuff that

940
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: came out. Yeah, it's outrageous. I don't think there's any

941
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: denying that, whatever you think of affirmative action, that the

942
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: current system has discriminated against Asian Americans in a very

943
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 1: perverse way, right, And because they'll be like, well, so,

944
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: I mean, they literally can show that you can have

945
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 1: the same test scores, you can have the same basically

946
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: attributes on every single thing, and then on the personal

947
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: section they're getting rated dramatically lower. It's all these very

948
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: like racist tropes of like doesn't show leadership, not social Yeah,

949
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this is bad, this is really bad. Anyway.

950
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: So the point is is that in that two thousand

951
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: and three case, they set that twenty four to five

952
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: year timeline, but they didn't necessarily cap themselves on when

953
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: race conscious admissions were coming up. This of course would

954
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 1: take place twenty twenty two and is based really on

955
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 1: both anti discrimination practices, is in the way that affirmative

956
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: action is being used against Asian Americans, but also just

957
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: in general on the idea of race consciousness. And the

958
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: reason I thought it was important is not only in

959
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 1: terms of the scope of in terms of the scope

960
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: of American society, but really, this is one of the

961
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: big great disconnects, and Crystal, you did a fantastic monologue

962
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: on this a while back over at Rising between really

963
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: elites and the rest of the public. Affirmative action is

964
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: perhaps one of the most single unpopular positions that exists

965
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: in the United States. Was defeated in the state of

966
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: California on a ballot level in twenty twenty, and yet

967
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: you have the Biden administration that went to back for it,

968
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: actually at the court, the US Solicitor General saying that

969
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: it was a national security imperative to keep it. Let's

970
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: take a listen. That truth is vitally important to our

971
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: nation's military. Our armed forces know from heart experience that

972
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: when we do not have a diverse officer corp that

973
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: is broadly reflective of a diverse fighting force, our strength

974
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: and cohesion and military readiness suffer. So it is a

975
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: critical national security imperative to attain diversity within the officer core,

976
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: and at present, it's not possible to achieve that diversity

977
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: without race conscious admissions, including at the nation's service academies.

978
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: The military experience confirms, with this court recognized and Grouter

979
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: that in a society where race unfortunately still matters in

980
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: countless ways. Achieving diversity can sometimes require conscious acts by

981
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: our leading educational institutions. So that was the US listener general,

982
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: effectively like the chief litigator on behalf of the United States,

983
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: making it, of course in the purview of what they have,

984
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: which is the US Service Academies. Because as we said,

985
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 1: if it does impact higher education, even at a private

986
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: university like Harvard, it would of course also apply to

987
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: the Service Academies. Let's consider it though, in the public context.

988
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 1: Put this up there on the screen. Most Americans actually

989
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: say that colleges and universities should not consider applicants race

990
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 1: in order to further student body diversity in education. So

991
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 1: US adult citizens twenty three percent yes, twenty three percent

992
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: not sure, a majority fifty four percent say no. Even

993
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: amongst Democrats crystal only forty percent say yes, twenty six

994
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: percent say not sure, no, thirty four percent say no.

995
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: Independence seventeen percent yes, twenty eight percent not sure, fifty

996
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,320
Speaker 1: five percent no. Republicans overwhelming majority say no. I also

997
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,320
Speaker 1: think it's important to know. If you ask Black Americans,

998
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: only thirty six percent say yes, thirty three percent say

999
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 1: not sure, and thirty three percent say no, the same

1000
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: fits with quote unquote Hispanic whatever that means. And then

1001
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: amongst white Americans sixteen percent say yes and sixty four

1002
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: percent I would love to see the class breakdown. Of course,

1003
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: the policy, I would love to see the class breakdown. Yeah,

1004
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a lot to say about this

1005
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: because I think the reason why it's so unpopular is

1006
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: because it really rubs up against the notion that Americans

1007
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: want to strive for a color blend society, and so

1008
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: there is this real rub there. I mean, the issue

1009
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: that I always have talking about affirmative action and why

1010
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: it's such sort of tricky ground for me personally is

1011
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: I sort of feel like I disagree with everyone on it.

1012
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: There's a lot of presumptions behind the policy and the

1013
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: debate on affirmative action that I just don't accept and

1014
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: don't agree with. The whole debate takes as fact the

1015
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: idea that we have a meritocracy, that the meritocracy is

1016
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: generally functioning, that the thing we should be striving for

1017
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: is to perfect that meritocracy, rather than know my goal

1018
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 1: as a leftist, which is to make sure that everyone

1019
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: is able to succeed. I also think, like I said,

1020
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: Asian Americans are getting screwed by this policy. There's just

1021
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: no denying that, and I think that's something that people

1022
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: who are big proponents of this policy really have to

1023
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: grapple with and really have struggled to gropple with. That's

1024
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:33,880
Speaker 1: number one. Number two, I don't agree with the arguments

1025
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: that are being put forth by the conservatives on the Court,

1026
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: which is basically like mission accomplished. Colorblind Society done don't

1027
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 1: need this policy anymore, and we shouldn't pretend that the

1028
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: arguments that were being offered on the Court, which is

1029
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: why I don't even spend a lot of time, like

1030
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: I read through the gist of what they were saying.

1031
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: But ultimately, this is an ideological debate. It has very

1032
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: little to do with what their actual interpretation of the

1033
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: Constitution is. The six conservatives on the Court, they don't

1034
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: like affirmative action. They're going to find a way to

1035
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 1: strike it down, regardless of the arguments that are being

1036
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,800
Speaker 1: made to them and whether they're persuaded on the constitutionality

1037
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: of it or whatever. And the liberals are, you know,

1038
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 1: on the other side. This is an ideological debate. Supreme

1039
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: Court as partisan, we should keep all of that in

1040
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: mind as well. So those are some of my thoughts.

1041
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: But the other thing that I always come back to

1042
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: is like, what is your goal? What is your goal

1043
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: with this policy. If the only option on the table

1044
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: for me is let's diversify the elite class, which is

1045
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 1: what this is, this policy is effective, and you know

1046
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: what I would rather if that is my only option

1047
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: is have a non diverse elite class and I'm just

1048
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 1: talking about racial diversity here, or have a diverse racially

1049
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 1: diverse elite class, then I will take the diverse elite class. Okay,

1050
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: if that's my only option on the table. However, if

1051
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: your goal is actually to reduce the racial wealth gap,

1052
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: we know from history, which is a goal that I

1053
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: care personally care a lot more about than I care

1054
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 1: about the you know, technical racial diversity of the elite class,

1055
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 1: we know from history that this policy does not do that. That.

1056
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: In fact, the policies that have been most effective throughout

1057
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 1: our history to help to close the racial wealth gap,

1058
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: which we still have a very long way to go

1059
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 1: on our universal policies that lift the floor for everyone,

1060
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: things like lifting the minimum wage, think things like making

1061
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 1: sure that social security and living wage benefits apply to

1062
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: across all job categories, and we don't carve out the

1063
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 1: job categories that are disproportionately filled by black and brown people.

1064
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: So if that's your goal, and when you layer on

1065
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: top of that, how much we know this policy is

1066
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: really unpopular. There's also a pragmatism here of like, we

1067
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 1: shouldn't assume that we can use our political capital to

1068
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: do absolutely everything. We should invest our political capital in

1069
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: the policies that are going to have the largest effect

1070
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: at achieving ultimately our goals. And I think we have

1071
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: one other piece on from David Shore on the last

1072
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: element here. If you track these are like all of

1073
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: the different sort of like democratic aligned policies. Affirmative action

1074
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: is one of the least popular. So again it has

1075
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 1: been beneficial primarily for middle and upper middle class minorities

1076
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: to get into college and to ascend into the elite class.

1077
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a bad thing. I do think

1078
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: by diversity is an important value, but it goes back

1079
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: to the question of what are you really trying to

1080
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: accomplish and what are the policies that will most help

1081
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: you effectuate that goal that have broad public support. The

1082
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: last thing I will say on this because I cannot

1083
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: leave this out is that it is kind of a

1084
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 1: screwed up world where this gets struck down, but you

1085
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: still have legacy of admissions, oh yeah, which are affirmative

1086
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: action for rich white people actually, and it's like disgraceful

1087
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 1: that that is something that goes on and is so important,

1088
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: especially at our elite universities. It's actually interesting that this

1089
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: could have an impact on legacy admissions as well. Also,

1090
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 1: I want to concur with almost everything that you said,

1091
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: and I think one of the most impactful pieces that

1092
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: ever been had on me was written by the socialist

1093
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: Matt Brunig about the racial wealth gap, and I think

1094
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: people should know this. The vast majority of the racial

1095
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: wealth gap in the United States is about the top

1096
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 1: two death siles of blacks and whites, as in, you know,

1097
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,359
Speaker 1: when everyone's like the black wealth and white wealth that's

1098
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: between the top twenty percent in both groups. As in

1099
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: the top twenty percent white people are much richer than

1100
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: the top twenty percent of rich black people. If you

1101
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: look at the median house the median income of white

1102
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: earners and black earners, there is a gap, but it's

1103
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:31,839
Speaker 1: not even close to what the gap is of what

1104
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: you know we're looking at, which gets directly to your point,

1105
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: which is that do you want a society where the

1106
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: Nasdak remains the same but there is a black person's

1107
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: on the board of the directors, Or do you want

1108
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: a society where Nazdak companies chase policies which are better

1109
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: for their workers and for the Median American and in general.

1110
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 1: My problem why my politics are the way they are

1111
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: was coming to the Northeast and seeing the way that

1112
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 1: elite liberals talk about so many of these issues and realize,

1113
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: like this is all just a game for all of you,

1114
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 1: as in, like you want to protect whatever this little

1115
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 1: slice is and diversify this very small slice of the economy,

1116
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: the elite, the electorate, and not talk about anything that

1117
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: impacts like any of the people I grew up with

1118
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: or even grew up around. It's like they're used as pawns.

1119
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: And I think that generally is why I get so

1120
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 1: annoyed by it and why I like pointing to the

1121
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: political popularity. As you said, if you can't get affirmative

1122
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: action pass on the ballot in California, how are you

1123
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 1: going to defend it as the national law of the land,

1124
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: or at very least as allowing it in. Some of

1125
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: them are not just major institutions in government, I mean

1126
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 1: military for me, all across the work. The polling is

1127
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,879
Speaker 1: not in and of itself determinative. I support other policies

1128
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 1: that don't pull well because I think they're the right policy,

1129
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: and you should be willing to argue for that. But

1130
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 1: when you couple that with the fact that this really

1131
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: doesn't to me help to deal with what should be

1132
00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: the core goal, which is closing the racial wealth gap,

1133
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 1: you're really antagonizing a majority of the public with this policy.

1134
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 1: Then it gets to the question of, Okay, is this

1135
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: really ultimately worth it? And I can imagine situations where

1136
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, I'm generally a big supporter of universal policies,

1137
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,240
Speaker 1: as you guys know, medicare for all, living wage, unions

1138
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,440
Speaker 1: for all, like, I think those are the best ways.

1139
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: And again the track record bears it out to not

1140
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: only support the entire working class, but specifically those policies

1141
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: are most beneficial for black and brown people who are

1142
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: disproportionately impoverished and in low wage jobs and you know,

1143
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: struggling at that end of the economy. So in general,

1144
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: I think those are bus policies. Can I imagine a

1145
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 1: policy that would be sort of like specific to you know,

1146
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: to racial discriminate one hundred percent? Absolutely, I don't think

1147
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: we should put that off the table whatsoever. But I

1148
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: do want to emphasize again the part of this that

1149
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, I really do chafe at from conservatives is

1150
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,440
Speaker 1: their view is basically like meritocracy already good to go,

1151
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: no racial discrimination, everybody can everybody can make it, so

1152
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: we don't need to do anything about this, And I

1153
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 1: don't agree with that either. I just think that we

1154
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: can aspire to more than diversifying our elite class. And

1155
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: ultimately that's you know, the thrust of my politics and

1156
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 1: where I like to spend my time on. Let's break

1157
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: down state by state where we are and big picture. Basically,

1158
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: every one of these averages, even the ones where Democrats

1159
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: still hold on to uh slim or even significant lead,

1160
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: every one of them has been moving in favor of Republicans.

1161
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 1: And now you have you know, five point thirty eight

1162
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: and check it this morning. But for the first time

1163
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: they are giving Republicans a narrow edge in terms of

1164
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: wedding the Senate. So you can just see the way

1165
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: the momentum is going right now, even while saying listen,

1166
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: polls could be wrong in a variety of directions, even

1167
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: though it's mostly been wrong in recent history in favor

1168
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 1: of the Democrats rather than in favor of the Republicans.

1169
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: But who the hell knows what's going to happen. But

1170
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: I can just tell you the trend right now has

1171
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 1: been very much towards Republicans in every single one of

1172
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: these races. So let's look at Georgia first. We pulled

1173
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: the Real Clear Politics average for all of these. You

1174
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: can see the trend line at the bottom, which has

1175
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: Warnock falling off somewhat, Walker rising significantly. Walker is now

1176
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: favored in again the Real Clear Politics average by one

1177
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: point six percentage points. I went ahead and took a

1178
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:22,440
Speaker 1: look at the last two polls in this race, and

1179
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: it's a split decision in terms of the last two polls.

1180
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: The Fox five Insider Advantage poll had Walker plus three

1181
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: the Republican. The New York Times Siena poll had Warnock

1182
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 1: plus three. We went through last time how New York

1183
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: Times Sienna has been in recent years more favorable towards Democrats.

1184
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: They've had a miss that, you know, So I would

1185
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: take anything that they have, and I think in Georgia

1186
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: the miss was about three points, so you would have

1187
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: this as basically a total toss. I believe the miss

1188
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: was poor, which is if anything, Yeah, Walker, it sounds

1189
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: right on the money, which is exactly what the real

1190
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 1: clear politics average average is one point five. That's where

1191
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: if you know, again, if I had but my money,

1192
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: that's probably where it would go. I think we're really

1193
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: just learning about structural advantages whenever you are the party

1194
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: in power in a national political environment. The days of

1195
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: local politics effectively died in twenty ten with the Tea

1196
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: Party wave and the referendum on Barack Obama, and from

1197
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 1: that year forward, every single election, downstream, upstream, primary, everything

1198
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: has been on the major national questions. There are some

1199
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: marginal cases where we can argue that that's not the case,

1200
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,600
Speaker 1: but by and large that seems to be the overwhelming

1201
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: trend of politics and candidate quality. Increasingly, as we have seen,

1202
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: the data is bearing out that even if it's a

1203
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: really really bad candidate, at best you are talking about

1204
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: maybe a point or two, which is sad whenever you

1205
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 1: do think about it. But on the one hand, some

1206
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: localism does matter. Let's throw the next one up there,

1207
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: which is Arizona. This is where I think you could

1208
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: make a case where candidate quality has made it so

1209
00:59:55,680 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 1: that it is a much tighter race Crystal than arguably

1210
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 1: and structurally that it should be. The RCP average has

1211
01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: Mark Kelly with a two point three percent advantage. Now

1212
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: that's even with a Fox poll that shows Mark Kelly

1213
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: up by one. As we have seen, he actually is

1214
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: out running Joe Biden in his approval rating in the state,

1215
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: He's far above fifty percent. He consistently hammers Biden on

1216
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: the border. He's you know, talking about inflation he has.

1217
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 1: It's a very strange situation because on the one hand

1218
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 1: he does vote with the National Democratic Party. Right. Look,

1219
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: he's never been the kissing cinema sticking the mud on

1220
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 1: any of that, and yet locally has been able to

1221
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: make the case he's like, no, I am an independent

1222
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: minded figure. I don't necessarily go along with the Biden consent.

1223
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: He's even running ads, you know, even saying talking about

1224
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 1: the president. I would have found it fascinating. Maggie Hassen

1225
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: is actually running Her latest ad is I'm standing up

1226
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: to President Biden, which anytime you have to do that,

1227
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 1: by the way, is not good and by the way,

1228
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: it rarely works. I was going to say, by the way, never,

1229
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 1: I'll never forget. You know, I've told the story Ched Edwards,

1230
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,280
Speaker 1: my congressman, had lost by the largest margin in twenty

1231
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: ten and he'd represented a Democrat for R plus twenty

1232
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: five district. He ran. I remember one of his last ads,

1233
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 1: he was like, I'm standing up to Nancy Pelosi. And

1234
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: that's when I was like, yeah, he's gonna lose the

1235
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,880
Speaker 1: last gasp as effort here. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I

1236
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: think the other thing that was really persuasive to me

1237
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 1: in the New York Times polling about this race is

1238
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: even putting the candidates aside, which I think Mark Kelly

1239
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:25,600
Speaker 1: is a strong candidate for Democrats. I think Blake Masters

1240
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 1: has been a very weak candidate for Republicans, just because

1241
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: of some of the extreme views he's taken, both on

1242
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: abortion but also on economic issues. But they also found

1243
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: in Arizona that social cultural issues were weighing more heavily

1244
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: on the electorate than in other states. And they've had

1245
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: some sort of like fierce local state level battles around

1246
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 1: abortion rights and whether it's going to be completely banned

1247
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: in the state and those sorts of things. So it

1248
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: makes sense to me that in that way there's a

1249
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 1: little bit of localism there where abortion is weigh more

1250
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: heavily in voter's mind. So that would certainly give Mark

1251
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: Kelly bit more of an edge. I think, you know,

1252
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: this is the race where consistently Democrats have held the

1253
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: largest the largest margin. It too is closing, you know,

1254
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: the gap is closing there as well. So I certainly

1255
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: don't think that it's out of the realm of possibility

1256
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: that Masters would win. But I think as you look

1257
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: at these races, the Arizona one has to be the

1258
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: one where Democrats feel the most comfortable, have the best

1259
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: shot at being able to hold on ultimately. I think

1260
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 1: you're right, and let's throw it. And why it's fascinating too,

1261
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: is demographically Arizona should be much more in play for

1262
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 1: the Republicans or for the Democrats. Sorry, Nevada, which we're

1263
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: about to talk to you. Let's put that up there

1264
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: on the screen, which is that Nevada demographically, historically, electorally,

1265
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: all of that should be far more favorable to the

1266
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: Democrats here, given that you have an incumbent Democratic senator.

1267
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 1: You have the state having gone for Biden for Democrats,

1268
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: and the last two presidential elections it has been tight,

1269
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 1: and yet we have had Adam Laxalt. There up are

1270
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: more that over Catherine Cortez Mastow than Mark Kelly has

1271
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,440
Speaker 1: or Blank Masters has over Mark Kelly, and I actually

1272
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: have been trying to figure out exactly why. You know,

1273
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: Cortes Masto is a very run of the mill, just

1274
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: like Median Democratic senator. That possibly could be why she

1275
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,800
Speaker 1: just doesn't have as big of a statewide type profile,

1276
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,200
Speaker 1: which means that the national wins would move more in

1277
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:23,960
Speaker 1: the Republican direction. But it is really difficult one to

1278
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: square right Arizona. You know, Biden barely won the state

1279
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, and before that, obviously it was a

1280
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,120
Speaker 1: solidly Republican state for decades. So to just look at

1281
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 1: Nevada trending so much right now in the GOP direction

1282
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: really does ask us a lot of questions about what

1283
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,800
Speaker 1: that means. I'm fascinated by politics in Nevada because this

1284
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: is one of the few states where union support really

1285
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: really makes a difference, because you know, the culinary workers

1286
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: union is so powerful there. You have such a significant

1287
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: sizeable chunk of the workforce that is actually organized. And

1288
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: that's why in previous years, even as other places have

1289
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,080
Speaker 1: swung to the right, especially places with large working class bases,

1290
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:08,080
Speaker 1: Nevada has actually held pretty strong for Democrats. They've been

1291
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: able to hold onto that state even as large swaths

1292
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,760
Speaker 1: of the working class start to move towards the Republican Party.

1293
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: That's all because of the union base of support there,

1294
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 1: which you know, we know that some union members, certainly

1295
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 1: a significant chunk at this point vote for Republicans, but

1296
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: being in a union is still one of the most

1297
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: significant indicators of voting Democratics. So it still really matters

1298
01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 1: a lot that you have a strong union base of support.

1299
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: So that's one point in favor of the Democrats. On

1300
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 1: the other hand, no state was hit harder during the

1301
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 1: pandemic than Nevada. You do have, you know, a population

1302
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: that is heavily working class, working in the service sector,

1303
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 1: food prices, gas prices, all of these things weighing very,

1304
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: very heavily on this electorate. So whereas in Arizona you

1305
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: have more voters saying they're focused on the social cultural issues,

1306
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: in Nevada, it's the mirror image situation where you have

1307
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 1: more even more voters saying no, no, this is all

1308
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: about the economy, and that's just very difficult waters for

1309
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: Democrats at this point. Now, Nevada is one of the

1310
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 1: states where the polls have been the closest to accurate.

1311
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: So you've got the Republican with about a two point

1312
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 1: lead right now. I mean, this thing has been tight

1313
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:22,520
Speaker 1: the whole way through. It's basically been a jump ball

1314
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 1: in terms of the pulling the whole way through. Where

1315
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: some of these other states you had, you know, at

1316
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: times Democrats with like a double digit lead, this one

1317
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: has always been extremely close. I pulled the last two

1318
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: polls here the Hill Emerson had the Republican Lasault up

1319
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: five USA today Suffolk had Catherine Cortez Masso up by one.

1320
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: But again the overall polling average has the Republican by

1321
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: almost two points. So yeah, I definitely think you would

1322
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:54,080
Speaker 1: rather be the Republicans, just because again, economic concerns. Democratic

1323
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 1: failures to message on economic concerns probably going to override

1324
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, the benefits that they have there in terms

1325
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 1: of unionization. If you didn't have that strong union presence there,

1326
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: this thing would be done and over and not even

1327
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,800
Speaker 1: a question mark. That's a great point. Yeah. I mean, look,

1328
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,920
Speaker 1: it's a crazy landscape and with every single one of

1329
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 1: these states, like some flavor of localism is coming out,

1330
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 1: but the national trends are just really bearing so strongly

1331
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,120
Speaker 1: behind Yeah, the Republicans that in almost every case except

1332
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: maybe Arizona, you just have to look at it and

1333
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: be like, well, that seems to be where things are blowing.

1334
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: By the way, we did include New Hampshire, but as

1335
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,920
Speaker 1: I as I alluded to earlier, actually this morning a

1336
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: new Trafalgar pole actually came out showing bull Duck up

1337
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 1: for the very first time by just one percentage point

1338
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: over Maggie Hassen there in New Hamon. That would be

1339
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: a major upset because we gain the for the Republican

1340
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 1: House over that seat. And it's not just Trafalgar. You

1341
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:49,120
Speaker 1: also had a s Anselm pole was the other most

1342
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: recent pole that also had Ballduck with a one point lead.

1343
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 1: The overall average is now just point five in favor

1344
01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,000
Speaker 1: of Maggie Hassen. So yeah, this is this one is

1345
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 1: become a real toss up. You know, one thing on

1346
01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 1: Georgia that I just want to make sure we note

1347
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: which is that if neither of these candidates get to

1348
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 1: fifty percent, which is entirely possible, then that goes to

1349
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: a runoff. And you know, that's a whole other situation.

1350
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: But in terms of who has the edge right now

1351
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: to win the most votes on election day looking like Walker,

1352
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: the last one is, you know, when we focused in

1353
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:24,919
Speaker 1: the media has focused a lot of attention on, which

1354
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: is the Pennsylvania race between Fetterman and Oz. Let's go

1355
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 1: ahead and put those numbers up on the screen here

1356
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: and you can see Fetterman's still clinging to a small

1357
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: lead here in terms of the average. He's up by

1358
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: one point two in the Real Claire Politics average. And

1359
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: I pulled the last two polls. Monmouth has Fetterman plus

1360
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 1: four and Muhlenberg Muhlenberg College, Yes, Muhlenberg, I don't know

1361
01:07:50,200 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 1: whatever has it even has it as a jump ball.

1362
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 1: I mean, this one is again total jump ball. And

1363
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is one of those states where pollsters have been missing,

1364
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: and they've been missing big yes, because this is a

1365
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: state that has a significant white working class population, especially

1366
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: the western part of the state. They've been you know,

1367
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: sort of consistently under counting Republican support. And so the

1368
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: fact that Fetterman in average only with one point two

1369
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: of a lead Alex pretty Dice and two Poles came

1370
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 1: out this morning actually with Oz at point plus one

1371
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:26,840
Speaker 1: at our point. So the hail Emerson, yeah, putting him

1372
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 1: up at OZ taking first time lead in that poll

1373
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: in a Sussequana I believe I said that correctly. It's

1374
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: Susquehannaskate whatever. All right, sorry, Pennsylvania has them up by

1375
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,520
Speaker 1: one as well, so very interesting. I mean, you're effectively

1376
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: it's a total jump there, which again, you know, given

1377
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 1: the way that the polling misses have been in the past,

1378
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: just the wins at the backs of the Republican Yes. Indeed,

1379
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: once upon a time this would have been front page

1380
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: news because we are on the on the brink of

1381
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: a major war in East Asia, of which nobody apparently

1382
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: appears to be taking very seriously, because it would just

1383
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 1: be inconvenient for everybody's picture of the global narrative. So

1384
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and put up the next one on

1385
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: the screen from part two, please, the Reuter's tearsheet about

1386
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: North Korea. This is very important. North Korea has fired

1387
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: twenty three missiles with one landing off the South Korean

1388
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:20,360
Speaker 1: coast for the first time ever. This comes from a

1389
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: slew of different missile launches by the North Koreans, both

1390
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 1: towards the Japanese towards South Korean waters in a response

1391
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: to South Korean military drills with the United States and

1392
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:37,600
Speaker 1: spawning major panic in Japan. Crystal they did overflies of

1393
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 1: Japan for the second time since twenty seventeen. Can you

1394
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: imagine watching television evening television and the emergency system, you know,

1395
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 1: whenever there's like a flood warning on your phone, imagine

1396
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: it says missile incoming, Take shelter, Take shelter. Now. That

1397
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 1: is what our Japanese allies are dealing with on a

1398
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: daily basis now. And this is a real bad situation

1399
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 1: because right now, the South Korean let's go and put

1400
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,799
Speaker 1: this up there, have fired three air to ground missiles

1401
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: from warplanes into the sea north of the disputed border,

1402
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: on top of US military exercises which are happening. So

1403
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,680
Speaker 1: why does this matter in the context of what we

1404
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: were just talking about in Ukraine at all? Well, Donald Trump,

1405
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: I believe made one of the most significant diplomatic breakthroughs

1406
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: of all time in modern US history. Whenever he said,

1407
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: screw it, I'm meeting with Kim Jong un with zero

1408
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 1: preconditions because the other option was war. That doesn't sound

1409
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 1: very good from everything I have read. The North Koreans

1410
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: have a major stockpile of horrific chemical weapons vx saren

1411
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 1: gas on top of massive ammunition stockpile. They could level

1412
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:45,880
Speaker 1: a city of Soul in like forty five minutes, like

1413
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 1: it would be horrific. Tens of millions of people would

1414
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: die on top of tens of thousands of Americans of

1415
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: the South Korean population within forty five minutes of the DMC.

1416
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 1: We also have tens of thousands of troops, American soldiers

1417
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: who are on I think it's Osan Air Force Base,

1418
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: and others who's basically their job is to die in

1419
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,200
Speaker 1: the middle of one of these conflicts. That's how grave

1420
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: the military plans for all of this looked like. Well,

1421
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: we had two options in twenty seventeen. Kim Jong un

1422
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 1: is not giving up his nuclear program and he's not

1423
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 1: gonna stop firing missiles because he wants entry into the

1424
01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 1: global economy because his country is suffering mostly because of him.

1425
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 1: But he wants access to global markets and end of sanctions,

1426
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: so he's willing to go all in and risk war

1427
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: for that. We had to decide, well, do we want

1428
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,120
Speaker 1: the Korean peninsula to be wiped off the face of

1429
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: the earth or should we just try and put an

1430
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,640
Speaker 1: end to this thing, this madness. Trump went to go

1431
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: meet with him at the total like he was hailed

1432
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 1: as like legitimizing this dictator. He was said to be

1433
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: abandoning the long standing US position that we must have

1434
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 1: denuclearization as a pretext for talks. And he's like, no,

1435
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that. I'm just gonna go and

1436
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,320
Speaker 1: meet with the guy. And guess what, they didn't do

1437
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,920
Speaker 1: anything for five years, and it was great. It was

1438
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: actually very nice to not have random ballistic missiles flying

1439
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: into the sea in East Asia, which could even you know.

1440
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: One issue is that they fire these missiles into the

1441
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 1: air and they don't give any heads up to like

1442
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 1: commercial airline pilot, so there's a real fear that they

1443
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: can just shoot a plane out of the sky accidentally,

1444
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: very real consequences. The point is is that Trump bucked

1445
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: the Washington establishment by saying, no, I'm just going to

1446
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,320
Speaker 1: meet with them. And also even though he ended up

1447
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: also not dropping denuclearization from the demand of North Korea.

1448
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 1: We got them talking, they were exchanging letters. Mike Pompeo

1449
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,759
Speaker 1: was over there all the time, and we were presenting

1450
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: the North Koreans. We're like, hey, look, you can have

1451
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 1: a great life if you guys give up your nukes. Now. Ultimately,

1452
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: I personally think that's just not on the table at all.

1453
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: They would personally like if I were them, I would

1454
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: never give it up. As they always say in their negotiations.

1455
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 1: Look what happened to Gavi. Yeah, they're like, you guys,

1456
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 1: you know he died get with a ram rod up

1457
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: his ass. He's like, that's not going to happen to me.

1458
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:57,600
Speaker 1: So that's something that they are wholly wedded to. The

1459
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 1: point is is that this shows you because the Biden

1460
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 1: administration immediately reverted back to the Obama position, which is, no,

1461
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: we're not going to talk to them at all, and

1462
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: it's up to them whether they want to start a

1463
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,719
Speaker 1: war or not. Yeah, this demonstrates the power and lasting

1464
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: legacy of diplomacy. We had five years of relative peace

1465
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,759
Speaker 1: in East Asia, even though nothing happened and all talking

1466
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: was all that happened. It also shows you. I mean,

1467
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 1: you know, Americans have a finite ability to consume news.

1468
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,680
Speaker 1: There's a finite ability of the news media to you know,

1469
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 1: focus in on any particular story. And you know, they're

1470
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,400
Speaker 1: all consumed with the Ukraine War. It's a very important story.

1471
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 1: We're very consumed with that as well possibility of nuclear war.

1472
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: But you know, don't forget that we have other incredibly dangerous,

1473
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 1: volatile situations unfolding North Korea, Taiwan, other places, and you know,

1474
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:49,719
Speaker 1: we don't want to let that fall off the table.

1475
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: And Obama handed off to Trump. That was the thing

1476
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,799
Speaker 1: that he said he thought would be the biggest threat,

1477
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 1: the largest danger, the most sort of like consuming issue

1478
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 1: on the international stage. So you know, that has not

1479
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:07,640
Speaker 1: gone away. And even after those first twenty three missiles

1480
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,480
Speaker 1: and then South Korea does their you know, sort of retaliation,

1481
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 1: North Korea continued then afterwards and launched four more, including

1482
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: an ICBM which they say that test failed, but you know,

1483
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 1: further escalating even after the initial launch of those twenty

1484
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:26,839
Speaker 1: three missiles. So is a very very very dangerous situation.

1485
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 1: And look, maybe I'll say something controversial which will piss

1486
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 1: off a lot of the Euros that watch our show.

1487
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: Japan and South Korea are fifteen thousand times more valuable

1488
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 1: to the US economy, to the US way of life,

1489
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 1: and as allies than any place in Eastern Europe. And

1490
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:44,240
Speaker 1: I know it's difficult to talk that way, but just

1491
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,640
Speaker 1: look at a chart of global GDP and look at

1492
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: trading relationships, longtime alliances, military spending, commitment actually to the

1493
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 1: US military alliance, to the US way of life, the

1494
01:14:55,400 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 1: US global order visa v. China, Asia is look percent

1495
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,160
Speaker 1: of world GDP. And I think there's a real chauvinism

1496
01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:06,280
Speaker 1: the way that we talk about allies and the way

1497
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 1: that we look at the world considering how important this

1498
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: part of the world is. Maybe just because we don't

1499
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: have ancestry. Maybe I'm Indians, so I just don't have

1500
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: the European ancestry. So I'm willing to look at it

1501
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 1: go on a balance sheet that any war in East

1502
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: Asia would be ten to fifteen to twenty five times

1503
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 1: more impactful on US interests than anything that is going

1504
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 1: on right now in Ukraine. And part of the issue,

1505
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 1: as I always worried about, is that we are blowing

1506
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,800
Speaker 1: our wad on terms of our military industrial complex, in

1507
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 1: terms of our supplies in terms of our just energy,

1508
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:44,160
Speaker 1: our attention, while there is yeah public will, while there

1509
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: is a real possibility of a war which could end

1510
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: the American way of life as we know it. Already,

1511
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 1: China zero COVID lockdowns are making it so that the

1512
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 1: new iPhone fourteen is not going to get delivered, you know,

1513
01:15:55,880 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 1: on time. This is exact rageous. I really believe that

1514
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:00,960
Speaker 1: people should people should underst like, if there's a war

1515
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,600
Speaker 1: over Taiwan or in East Asia, this will be the

1516
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: last iPhone that you ever have, and you'll likely have

1517
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 1: to turn it into the government because they need the

1518
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:11,120
Speaker 1: chips that are inside of it. So look, it's a

1519
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 1: serious situation. We can learn. We had a five year

1520
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 1: reprieve from over seventy years of war or tensions on

1521
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: the Korean peninsula, and it came from just talking between

1522
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 1: two leaders and having high level conversations, and it led

1523
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: to extraordinary results. The South Korean president goes to North

1524
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: Korea does the handshit, it's never happened before. It's like

1525
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: these were we were on the path to a good outcome,

1526
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: and instead the Biden administration reverted back to the brain

1527
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:43,240
Speaker 1: dead policy of we're going to insist the country with

1528
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:45,320
Speaker 1: the capability or we're going to insist that a country

1529
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,200
Speaker 1: the capability to nuke US should give up their nukes?

1530
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:50,559
Speaker 1: Why would they do that? These past several years, I've

1531
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: really exposed how so much of what is taken for

1532
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: granted as like foreign policy conventional wisdom in the BLOB

1533
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 1: was not just like it was just completely wrong. It

1534
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 1: was like total op of what you should be doing.

1535
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, our sanctioned policy with regard to Russia,

1536
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 1: how is how is that? Where has that curbed their

1537
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:11,000
Speaker 1: appetite for war? Has that even like? Yeah, exactly so, Yeah,

1538
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of potential learning, but unfortunately the

1539
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: foreign policy establishment doesn't seem to want to learn those lessons. No,

1540
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 1: they don't want to learn it at all.