Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, Welcome to this holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business Week. It was supposed to be a quiet, abbreviated
Speaker 2: week for markets. What we got was anything but.
Speaker 3: The investor is actually shrugged as Nvidia reported quarterly revenue
Speaker 3: that tripled from a year earlier. Then the Justice Department
Speaker 3: brought the hammer down on crypto Exchange Finance and its founder.
Speaker 3: And then, of course, Carol, there was Open Ai.
Speaker 2: As we said, anything but quiet. Well, less than five
Speaker 2: days after Sam Altman's abrupt ouster from the artificial intelligence startup,
Speaker 2: Altman was back at OpenAI, one of the world's most
Speaker 2: valuable startups, putting an end, at least for now, to
Speaker 2: the back and forth drama that transfixed Silicon Valley and
Speaker 2: the global AI industry.
Speaker 3: We'll be talking tech throughout our first hour of the program,
Speaker 3: and we begin with someone who knows quite a bit
Speaker 3: about this space and the broader implications of AI in
Speaker 3: our society. Andrew McAfee is principal research scientist at MIT,
Speaker 3: and he joins us with his take on the open
Speaker 3: AI saga.
Speaker 4: I think this is just a crystal clear case study
Speaker 4: of the importance of good old fashion, boring corporate governance
Speaker 4: and running a good board. This feels like a huge
Speaker 4: enforced error on the part of the Open AI board,
Speaker 4: and I still don't quite understand it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're not the only one who doesn't
Speaker 3: quite understand it. Doesn't sound like even Satinadella at Microsoft
Speaker 3: Carol knows why he was fired.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean that's what's interesting. I mean, is it important
Speaker 2: in your view, Andrew, that we know every detail in
Speaker 2: terms of how this ends, or what is ultimately the
Speaker 2: important thing that we get out of this, or how
Speaker 2: it ends in your view.
Speaker 4: I don't think we're ever going to know all the details,
Speaker 4: but we do know that if you have an extraordinarily popular,
Speaker 4: very effective CEO at growing a tech company, the board
Speaker 4: might not want to fire that person with almost with
Speaker 4: no notice, really without apparently engaging on a lot of
Speaker 4: back and forth with him, not for any fraud or
Speaker 4: misconduct or malfeasance, but because of some other kind of
Speaker 4: vague problem. If the board is going to take that
Speaker 4: fairly rash step, they probably want to alert their major investors,
Speaker 4: their biggest business partners, their employee base, and give them
Speaker 4: time to get ready. For all that, they didn't appear
Speaker 4: to do any of that, And when they were frantically
Speaker 4: negotiating over the weekend to try to bring him back,
Speaker 4: that all fell apart, And it fell apart to the
Speaker 4: extent that the huge majority of the employees of the
Speaker 4: company have signaled that they will walk away. Whatever you
Speaker 4: think the board's duty is, I can't see how it
Speaker 4: is includes destroying that much value, hollowing out the employee
Speaker 4: base of the company. And if the mission of the
Speaker 4: Open AI Foundation is to advance safe agi for humanity,
Speaker 4: I do not see how these actions support that mission
Speaker 4: at all.
Speaker 2: Hey, Business School, this is a case study of how
Speaker 2: not to do things. Basically.
Speaker 3: There are plenty of examples of that. By the way,
Speaker 3: there is plenty.
Speaker 6: They're all that right. Often usually.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm wondering. You know, Tim was really smart
Speaker 2: in terms of our discussions that we've been having around
Speaker 2: this about what seems to be maybe at odds, and
Speaker 2: that is this debate about a need for balance of
Speaker 2: pushing generative AI, this technology, expanding, exploring it to reach
Speaker 2: its potential, but with also having an ethical line because
Speaker 2: of the potential of it to do wrong. Although I
Speaker 2: would go back to you know, the Cold War and
Speaker 2: missiles and the battle to have the greatest and best
Speaker 2: in terms of military and how that could bring the
Speaker 2: end to civilization. So trying to kind of figure out
Speaker 2: what is at risk if we get this wrong?
Speaker 4: Help me hear, yeah, whatever is at risk? If your
Speaker 4: organization organization's mission is safe AI, and you believe apparently
Speaker 4: that a for profit company is not the right way
Speaker 4: to accomplish that mission, then doing things that let your
Speaker 4: CEO and again almost all of the employees wind up
Speaker 4: at an AI building for profit company that is not
Speaker 4: accomplishing the goals of your mission. I personally am not
Speaker 4: worried about the existential the alignment risk of AI. All
Speaker 4: very powerful tools bring risks and harms with them, and
Speaker 4: they demand vigilance, and we got to be careful about it.
Speaker 4: I don't think AI is any big exception to that
Speaker 4: trend or requires us to do radically different things. We
Speaker 4: just have to be vigilant. Stop the bad uses.
Speaker 3: That is really really surprising for me to hear from you, Andrew,
Speaker 3: because I hear from you know, the worst case scenario
Speaker 3: when it comes to this stuff is, okay, what if
Speaker 3: AI developed some sort of super bug or biological weapon,
Speaker 3: or in fact, you know in the Elon Musk school,
Speaker 3: become sentient and more powerful than human beings. Why does
Speaker 3: that not worry you?
Speaker 4: I mean, I read a lot of science fiction as
Speaker 4: a kid, too. I think terminator sci fi scenarios are
Speaker 4: not great guides to policy, are not great guides to
Speaker 4: I'm using this very powerful, very beneficial toolkit. I do
Speaker 4: think that there is a risk that AI, for example,
Speaker 4: could be used to as part of an effort to
Speaker 4: engineer bad bugs or bioweapons. Great, why are we focusing
Speaker 4: on a AI and not gene editing and not gene
Speaker 4: sequencing technologies? And why are we letting anybody apply to
Speaker 4: molecular biology and genetics doctoral programs and distributing that knowledge
Speaker 4: very freely. There are, again, there are risks in the
Speaker 4: modern world, let's not be naive about that. But singling
Speaker 4: out AI as the lynchpin that's going to make everything
Speaker 4: bad happen, I just think that's wrong. I think that's
Speaker 4: a misallocation of our effort. Okay, demonizing technologies that will
Speaker 4: be super beneficial to us, I think as allows the idea.
Speaker 3: Well, let's move away from the superbug concern and more
Speaker 3: to the concern that it will become a sentient being
Speaker 3: that is more powerful and smarter than us. Why does
Speaker 3: that not concern you?
Speaker 4: You know, we have so many more important things to
Speaker 4: worry about. We have to accomplish an energy transition in
Speaker 4: the twenty first century. We have too high a disease burden.
Speaker 4: There are too many people in dire poverty around the world.
Speaker 4: I believe that AI might be the most powerful tool
Speaker 4: that we've ever come up with to help us solve
Speaker 4: these global planetary challenges facing humanity. And we're sitting around
Speaker 4: worried about the terminator when there's not a shred of
Speaker 4: evidence that AI has become sentient or taken control of
Speaker 4: anything that we don't want it to. Bad sci fi
Speaker 4: mixed bad policy.
Speaker 2: And to full transparency. You're working with Google on research
Speaker 2: related to the societal impacts of generative AI. I am
Speaker 2: curious that what is the balance you all at Google
Speaker 2: are pursuing when it comes to generative AI reaching its potential,
Speaker 2: but also being smart about it and careful with it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for that, because I really want to make
Speaker 4: clear here I am just talking about my own personal views.
Speaker 4: I am not representing Google's views on this. I actually
Speaker 4: am not on top of everything that Google believes. What
Speaker 4: I do know because I read the statement like the
Speaker 4: rest of the public did, that Google stance is that
Speaker 4: we need to be bold and responsible. I think we
Speaker 4: are in danger of walking away from the bold part
Speaker 4: in an overabundance of not just caution, but fear about
Speaker 4: things that we just don't have any evidence for. I
Speaker 4: want to say this again, this is my view, not
Speaker 4: necessarily Google's view.
Speaker 3: The thing that most concerns me about generitive AI is
Speaker 3: misinformation and the ability for bad actors to use that
Speaker 3: misinformation at scale to control outcomes like happens in social media.
Speaker 3: Exactly not that different than a lot of accusations that
Speaker 3: we saw fly in the wake of twenty sixteen and
Speaker 3: twenty twenty elections here in the US. But if you
Speaker 3: thought a bot army of people, you know in Eastern
Speaker 3: Europe with social media, we're scary, then what about an
Speaker 3: actual bought army of generative AI that's able to you know,
Speaker 3: do this stuff at scale.
Speaker 4: Andrew, Now that's a harm that we should be worrying about,
Speaker 4: because these are actual challenges, and like you say, bad
Speaker 4: actors are going to weaponize generative AI to do all
Speaker 4: kinds of harm or try to do all kinds of harm.
Speaker 4: This is a real risk. It's a real harm. I
Speaker 4: have faith in our ability to deal with the harms
Speaker 4: that technology brings us. I think we can find ways
Speaker 4: to have trusted sources that will verify whether a thing
Speaker 4: is a deep fake or not. All of us have
Speaker 4: the new sources that we run to when we see
Speaker 4: something that might be true or might not be true.
Speaker 4: We can strengthen those kinds of institutions and those kinds
Speaker 4: of responses. We can also educate people to be more
Speaker 4: discerning consumers of the news.
Speaker 2: You know you talk about You know, you have faith
Speaker 2: to deal with the harms of this technology maybe will
Speaker 2: ultimately bring us, should there there be some guardrails in place,
Speaker 2: you know, Amy once you know you know, shame or
Speaker 2: full me one. Shame on you for me twice, Shame
Speaker 2: on you know you.
Speaker 5: Know what I mean? You know what I mean.
Speaker 6: George W.
Speaker 3: Bush Sutching.
Speaker 2: But I guess my point is, whether it's social media,
Speaker 2: whether it's crypto, there's a lot of things out there
Speaker 2: that it's like, Oh, I guess we should have been
Speaker 2: doing this. Is there something we should have in place
Speaker 2: at this point when it comes to generative AI.
Speaker 4: I think what we should have in place is a
Speaker 4: very agile system for becoming aware of the harms and
Speaker 4: dealing with the harms as they crop up. For example,
Speaker 4: after smartphones were out for a while, we learned that
Speaker 4: a bunch of losers were using them to take pictures
Speaker 4: of the skirts of women, you know, as they commuted
Speaker 4: to work on the subway. We didn't not love a smartphone.
Speaker 4: We didn't make smartphone makers apply for a license to
Speaker 4: use a camera. We didn't make all of us apply
Speaker 4: for a license to have a camera equipped smartphone around
Speaker 4: the states. Anyway, lots of legislatures acted really quickly to
Speaker 4: make that particular use of the phone illegal. The beast
Speaker 4: response to the harms that come up is my preferred
Speaker 4: approach for dealing with these. I don't trust me or
Speaker 4: you or anybody else to sit around right here and
Speaker 4: correctly anticipate all of the things that will happen, and
Speaker 4: all of the effective ways to head that off. I
Speaker 4: just don't our.
Speaker 3: Thanks to Andrew McAfee, principal research scientist at MIT. Check
Speaker 3: out his new book, It's called The Geek Way, The
Speaker 3: Radical Mindset that drives Extraordinary results. And stick with Bloomberg
Speaker 3: News for any future twists and turns from Open AI
Speaker 3: and the global AI race, Carol, I know that there
Speaker 3: will be more.
Speaker 2: That's one thing we can kind of say for certainty.
Speaker 2: All right, coming up, everybody, We're going to shift our
Speaker 2: focus from corporate governance to governmental regulation when it comes
Speaker 2: to cutting edge technology. It's an area in which the
Speaker 2: European Union has led the way.
Speaker 3: Former EU official and current head of France's independent public
Speaker 3: auditing body, Pierre Moscovici joins us. Next, you're listening to
Speaker 3: Bloomberg BusinessWeek. This is Bloomberg.
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Speaker 2: Earlier this month, France, Germany, and Italy reached an agreement
Speaker 2: on how artificial intelligence should be regulated. That's according to
Speaker 2: a joint paper seen by Reuters, which reports that negotiations
Speaker 2: are set to ramp up within the European Commission, the
Speaker 2: European Parliament and the EU Council.
Speaker 3: The three governments support the concept of quote mandatory self
Speaker 3: regulation through codes of conduct for so called foundation models
Speaker 3: of AI. The paper goes on to say that the
Speaker 3: countries see risks in the applications of AI rather than
Speaker 3: in the technology itself.
Speaker 2: Europe has been at the forefront of big tech oversight
Speaker 2: with policies such as the General Data Protection Regulation, which
Speaker 2: aims to protect data and information privacy for citizens of
Speaker 2: the block.
Speaker 3: Our next guest was a member of the European Commission
Speaker 3: when GDPR was implemented. Pierre Moscovic now serves as first
Speaker 3: President of France's Court of Accounts. It's the country's supreme
Speaker 3: body for auditing the use of public funds in France.
Speaker 3: He joined Carol and Me and Studio to discuss their
Speaker 3: regulatory questions that AI now poses.
Speaker 2: The whole world is enamored with artificial intelligence. All business.
Speaker 2: Global business feels like they are enamored about it, racing
Speaker 2: toward it. What are your thoughts when you think about
Speaker 2: artificial intelligence, the importance when it comes to a country's economy, businesses, economies.
Speaker 7: Well, that's of course becoming huge and is going to
Speaker 7: be fantastic and gigantic in the future. Everybody knows that,
Speaker 7: and we all need to first invest on AI, use AI,
Speaker 7: and control AI. I chair an institution which troll is
Speaker 7: to control public finances. We are working on the strategy
Speaker 7: of the government for AI, and we are users of AI.
Speaker 7: But I think that illustrates the conflict we are facing
Speaker 7: and we will be facing between the necessary to develop AI,
Speaker 7: to invest on the I, but also to regulate AI
Speaker 7: because there are matters there of ethics about how we
Speaker 7: can control the evolution of AI, the way it will
Speaker 7: change our lives, our freedoms also, and so that's a
Speaker 7: major issue on which we must work I would say intensively,
Speaker 7: but without fantasies.
Speaker 3: So tell us about what concerns you like, what the
Speaker 3: guardrails in your opinion you think need to be in
Speaker 3: place when it comes to ethical use of AI and
Speaker 3: making sure that AI doesn't get out of control.
Speaker 7: Well, again, I'm not especially still that, but I was
Speaker 7: a U commissioner for five years and before a finance
Speaker 7: minister that means Secretary of Treasury in my country. And
Speaker 7: I see that going on and raising rapidly, and we
Speaker 7: need absolutely to have rules about that. You know, the
Speaker 7: EU is a rules based system. The US is also
Speaker 7: a rules based country, and we need to have fun
Speaker 7: rule of law, absolutely, and we need to establish a
Speaker 7: law so that the ethics limits are fixed and they
Speaker 7: are respected. And again without fantasis, let's not imagine that
Speaker 7: it's a big brother. That's not it. But we know
Speaker 7: that some uses of AI can be dangerous or threatening
Speaker 7: for our freedoms, for our lives too, and this needs
Speaker 7: to be addressed. As I said, we're a rule based system,
Speaker 7: and we are also involved in the global world, global
Speaker 7: economy and global institutions such as G twenty seven, IMF, etc.
Speaker 7: The good place where regulations should intervene is at the
Speaker 7: European level, where United in Europe. And I don't think
Speaker 7: that national regulations are the proper answer you could have.
Speaker 7: I would say a EU regulation plus national applications of
Speaker 7: the regulations, and this is something that we should also
Speaker 7: proposed to the rest of the world.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm going to say. Global cooperation here
Speaker 2: in US.
Speaker 7: Because I'm a member of the Board of Editors of
Speaker 7: the United Nations. I was with the Secretary Journal Antono Guteres,
Speaker 7: and he established a high level working group on AI
Speaker 7: with precisely that purpose to have a global answer to that.
Speaker 2: Are there real fears though, like is it not a
Speaker 2: kin pre if? I may ask akin to the concern
Speaker 2: about just the data collection that has been done by
Speaker 2: so many of the global social media companies, whether it's
Speaker 2: a Google, whether it's a meta privacy concerns. Safe to
Speaker 2: say Europe has really led the way on this in
Speaker 2: terms of oversight. But is this a much bigger threat
Speaker 2: artificial or generative artificial intelligence?
Speaker 7: Probably because it's the next step in technology, but it
Speaker 7: might be as well. New companies and also these ones
Speaker 7: we must watch that. You know, we we again were
Speaker 7: pioneers in regulating that in Europe in order to protect
Speaker 7: personal freedoms. I was a member of the Commission when
Speaker 7: we launched that, and I think that it's I wouldn't
Speaker 7: say an example, but something that the rest of the
Speaker 7: world can look after. And that's why we must think
Speaker 7: about the future of AI with I would say the
Speaker 7: same optic.
Speaker 3: I wonder if there is this concern among entrepreneurs that
Speaker 3: the regulations could prevent companies from growing to their full
Speaker 3: extent in France or the EU versus other countries that
Speaker 3: don't have the same regulations and players.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's always the debate that we have. But I
Speaker 7: think that we can strike a right balance between competitiveness,
Speaker 7: which is absolutely decisive having growing businesses and AI is
Speaker 7: a fantastic source of revenues and as well job creation
Speaker 7: of ruanan, but also job destruction under changing.
Speaker 2: Of jobs many innovative technology.
Speaker 7: But this is something that is growing rapidly and we
Speaker 7: can see that it will I wouldn't say destroy, but
Speaker 7: change the course. Again an example, I was in the
Speaker 7: un There are translators there the future. They need to
Speaker 7: keep their jobs, but probably it will move with AI,
Speaker 7: it will transform. So the proper world probably is job
Speaker 7: transformation with the I. But again we must trike the
Speaker 7: right balance between competitiveness and the protection of our freedoms,
Speaker 7: because if we don't take care of that, well, we
Speaker 7: could be in a mess a few times. And as
Speaker 7: this technology is fantastically growing and rapidly, well it could
Speaker 7: be faster than one may think. That's why I think
Speaker 7: regulation must be addressed as well. At the global level.
Speaker 7: This is UN or OCD or that kind of institutions.
Speaker 7: At the continental level, the global players in the world,
Speaker 7: the US, Europe, don't they're talking about China, India, et cetera,
Speaker 7: must certainly have their own protection. And then we must
Speaker 7: also declined that at the national level we talked about trance.
Speaker 7: This is something also that we.
Speaker 2: Can address, but not happening yet, not yet.
Speaker 7: But I can see and maybe what happened to mister
Speaker 7: Outmann is an example of that that this research of
Speaker 7: the balance between competitiveness, profitability, raising business and ethics is
Speaker 7: a matter that is important as well for public regulators,
Speaker 7: for governments, but also in companies in business.
Speaker 2: No, well said, right, because we've seen, we've seen what
Speaker 2: happens when really the business side kind of just runs.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the one mission. And I think about
Speaker 2: the data privacy issues which have come so much later, right,
Speaker 2: the oversight as these companies were building out, But maybe
Speaker 2: we just didn't realize.
Speaker 7: But that's something that again Europe was in the lead
Speaker 7: absolutely to develop. But you know this tech giants they
Speaker 7: must also, I mean, of course they must develop, but
Speaker 7: also behave I would say good citizens one another on
Speaker 7: which I concentrated or dedicated a lot of efforts when
Speaker 7: as the EU commissioned, was taxation, global taxation, And you know,
Speaker 7: there is an agreement at the OECD level signed by
Speaker 7: some one hundred and thirty countries which plans to tax properly,
Speaker 7: properly the digital sector, and it's not yet implemented, and
Speaker 7: we must do that, and probably with AI, it's a
Speaker 7: kind of parallel altitude that we must think about.
Speaker 3: That was Pierre Mascovec, first President of Francis Court of Accounts.
Speaker 3: Head on over to our podcast feed for more of
Speaker 3: our conversation with per and for his unique take on
Speaker 3: the health of the EU's second largest economy.
Speaker 2: Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, as we continue to
Speaker 2: moll over ethical concerns around AI, let's not forget the
Speaker 2: clear and present danger posed to businesses by cybersecurity, in
Speaker 2: part due to the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence.
Speaker 3: Wendy Thomas, the CEO of publicly traded Secure Works, stops
Speaker 3: by on the other side. This is Bloomberg.
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Speaker 2: We spoke earlier about the Open Ay drama as well
Speaker 2: as how global governments are approaching artificial intelligence from a
Speaker 2: regulatory perspective. Well, another factor to examine is AI's role
Speaker 2: in cybersecurity. Consider this prediction from tech consulting firm Gartner.
Speaker 2: By twenty twenty five, lack of talent or human failure
Speaker 2: will be responsible for over half of significant cyber incidents. Well,
Speaker 2: we've got a great voice on this issue.
Speaker 3: Our next guest participated with you, Carol in the recent
Speaker 3: nine to eleven Memorial and Museum Summit on Security. A
Speaker 3: conversation with you on cyber threats and understanding the impact
Speaker 3: that they can have on organizations.
Speaker 2: And we do want to point out the museum supported
Speaker 2: by Michael our Bloomberg of course, founder of Bloomberg Outp
Speaker 2: and Bloomberg Philanthropy. Is great to be talking once again
Speaker 2: with Wendy Thomas. She's CEO at Secure Work, She's on
Speaker 2: zoom Set the landscape. It's become kind of part of
Speaker 2: the norm of our world. But talk to us about
Speaker 2: cyber threats, the kind of trends we are seeing, where
Speaker 2: they're coming from, the typical kinds of incidents, if you will,
Speaker 2: and welcome back by the way.
Speaker 8: Look, I mean, the average cost of a breach for
Speaker 8: a business in the US here to date this year
Speaker 8: is nearly ten million dollars apiece, and the global cost
Speaker 8: of cybercrime's expected to be three x what it was
Speaker 8: just a decade ago. We're talking about a transfer of
Speaker 8: wealth in the wrong direction that's probably the greatest in
Speaker 8: our history. So when we look across the landscape, to
Speaker 8: your point, it is happening every single day. We're tracking
Speaker 8: about one hundred and thirty five active threat groups, and
Speaker 8: their activities are bucketed primarily into traditional cybercrime right just
Speaker 8: looking to extract profits, Nation state activity, which is clearly
Speaker 8: up in the wake of geopolitical events, and then activists
Speaker 8: who are concerned about those events and making their voice
Speaker 8: heard through a variety of cyber attacks. So we see
Speaker 8: those activities continuing, and as those three sets of actors
Speaker 8: continue to leverage tried and true techniques scanning for software
Speaker 8: vulnerabilities and exploiting those, stealing credentials to log in and
Speaker 8: parade as someone else, and then sending those fishing emails
Speaker 8: which we've all received around certain topics. You click on
Speaker 8: those and then you've given them access to the castle.
Speaker 8: So we just see the same actors using the same
Speaker 8: attack vectors and continuing to be successful.
Speaker 3: Wendy, is there some sort of geographical profile of these
Speaker 3: different state and non state actors, I mean, is there
Speaker 3: a part of the world that they tend to come
Speaker 3: from or is it truly global?
Speaker 8: Well, we certainly see them seeing talent around the globe,
Speaker 8: but in terms of nations. State actors and cyber crime groups,
Speaker 8: we see those coming out of China and Russia primarily respectively,
Speaker 8: but certainly Aroan, North Korea and others are active on
Speaker 8: the cyber stage. But cyber criminal groups, which are purely
Speaker 8: profit motivated, they do source talent, and unfortunately they use
Speaker 8: some of the same business models that our businesses do.
Speaker 8: Ransomware as a service, where different groups specialize in either
Speaker 8: stealing those credentials, writing the malware, or other pieces of
Speaker 8: the supplied attack chain, they are able to specialize and
Speaker 8: then create business models for easy access for less sophisticated
Speaker 8: criminals to smash and grab and extract those rents, and.
Speaker 2: They're moving more quickly right the time that they breach
Speaker 2: into your network and then the time they do some
Speaker 2: kind of attack. I remember a statistic when we talked.
Speaker 2: It's now I think, I like less than a day,
Speaker 2: less than twenty four hours.
Speaker 8: It is on average this past year. It's from the
Speaker 8: time of intrusion to the time of breach, it's less
Speaker 8: than twenty four hours. It was about five days a
Speaker 8: year ago. And what we see, unfortunately, is that in
Speaker 8: about ten percent of those cases it's less than five hours.
Speaker 8: And so when we talk to CEOs and CIOs about
Speaker 8: protecting their organization, it really is all about time, time
Speaker 8: to detect, time to respond, and that's where the power
Speaker 8: of artificial intelligence really comes into play to turn that
Speaker 8: back against the adversary.
Speaker 3: How does that work when it comes to AI, I
Speaker 3: mean take us through the process here.
Speaker 8: Sure, So when you think about how technology like secure
Speaker 8: works has where we're using artificial intelligence to really model
Speaker 8: and amplify what we see in terms of adversary of
Speaker 8: behavior inside of a network. So it's one to use
Speaker 8: software to detect when they're deploying malware in an organization,
Speaker 8: but it's another thing to know that the CEO's behavior
Speaker 8: online or accessing certain information is unusual or anomalists. AI
Speaker 8: can help you not only understand what's anomalists, but put
Speaker 8: together much more data more quickly to say that it
Speaker 8: is both anomalists and malicious. And the ability to detect
Speaker 8: that quickly, to prioritize that, to raise it up to attention,
Speaker 8: and then for the system to orchestrate the response to
Speaker 8: protect the network is incredibly important. Speed security has to
Speaker 8: move the speed of business, Wendy.
Speaker 2: When you guys have either a new client or existing client,
Speaker 2: I mean tell us are most are a lot of organizations.
Speaker 2: It could be nonprofits as well as publicly held companies
Speaker 2: or small companies, midsized companies are most institutions unprepared, under prepared.
Speaker 8: Unfortunately, most organizations are more vulnerable than they realize, and
Speaker 8: it may be that they've done a great job of
Speaker 8: protecting their own assets, but they are inextricably linked with
Speaker 8: other vendors, other suppliers, and thinking about your security as
Speaker 8: having to secure those who are interoperating with your organization
Speaker 8: and your systems as much as you secure your own
Speaker 8: castle is probably the most important. But the good news
Speaker 8: is that most cyber attacks, especially from cyber criminals, are
Speaker 8: absolutely opportunistic and so just creating some degree of friction
Speaker 8: that makes it more difficult for them to find that
Speaker 8: unlocked back door goes a long way in terms of,
Speaker 8: if not preventing breaches, absolutely mitigating the impact to the business. No.
Speaker 2: I remember when we talked and I came in kind
Speaker 2: of hot and heavy into our studio on the Monday,
Speaker 2: was after sixty Minutes had aired a report. It was
Speaker 2: about the Five Eyes and this was the five security
Speaker 2: service heads or spy chiefs from the US, UK, Canada, Australia,
Speaker 2: New Zealand and they had taken a trip to Silicon
Speaker 2: Valley and they were talking about the greatest threat to
Speaker 2: innovation in the countries of the Five Eyes, and that
Speaker 2: was the threat and specifically Chinese industrial espionage, which I
Speaker 2: think is kind of timely. But this idea of digital attacks,
Speaker 2: cyber attacks about getting into an organization industrial espionage, whether
Speaker 2: it's IP strategy at a company, I mean, is this
Speaker 2: happening more and more.
Speaker 9: So?
Speaker 8: China is absolutely the most active nation state that we
Speaker 8: see from a cyber perspective, and we watched them evolve
Speaker 8: over time. So in the past, those threat groups have
Speaker 8: had a reputation for sort of smash and grab, so
Speaker 8: steal that intellectual property around something that's important of electric
Speaker 8: battery developments or even agricultural innovation and scale, and so
Speaker 8: that emphasis was really about just achieving the objective as
Speaker 8: quickly as possible. But what we've seen more recently is
Speaker 8: that a growing number of Chinese threat groups have demonstrated
Speaker 8: an increasing focus on stealth and operational security and their intrusions,
Speaker 8: and so it is often difficult for organizations to know
Speaker 8: that the Chinese are in fact inside of their networks
Speaker 8: and able to over a sustained period of time, not
Speaker 8: only collect information, but determine what information is most valuable
Speaker 8: and important to them, and do so leaving a minimal
Speaker 8: intrusion footprint by leveraging a setup defense evasion techniques that
Speaker 8: we've seen increasingly in place.
Speaker 3: Hey, one thing, Wendy, I always like to ask people
Speaker 3: in your positions are just how you conduct yourself as
Speaker 3: a normal consumer online. You know what is possible, you
Speaker 3: know what to watch out for, of course, but you
Speaker 3: also probably do online banking and you probably have many,
Speaker 3: many passwords for consumer facing websites.
Speaker 7: How do you do it?
Speaker 8: I do have a little extra vigilize around my online
Speaker 8: activities and persona as you might imagine. First and foremost,
Speaker 8: I do use separate devices for doing things like online banking.
Speaker 8: One of the most important things you can do is
Speaker 8: absolutely difficult and unique passwords for your online activity. I'm
Speaker 8: sure all of you have received emails where your password
Speaker 8: has been stolen, and therefore if it is able to
Speaker 8: access any other application online that you're using, it's really
Speaker 8: important that you have a diversity of passwords and that
Speaker 8: you have secured the location of those passwords. No putting
Speaker 8: those in your phone notes or that type of thing
Speaker 8: when they're accessible.
Speaker 2: That was Wendy Thomas, CEO it Secure Works. Here more
Speaker 2: tips from Wendy and keeping your personal and business data safe.
Speaker 3: On our podcast feed, you're listening to Bloomberg business Week.
Speaker 3: We just heard how companies need to be vigilant about
Speaker 3: having cybersecurity systems in place as part of their IT spend.
Speaker 3: Our next guest weighs in on where those all important
Speaker 3: IT dollars are flowing at the corporate level.
Speaker 2: We speak with Ignite CEO of Venite Jane. When we
Speaker 2: come back, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3: Well, let's get to our next guest. He's the co
Speaker 3: founder and CEO of Ignite. It's a software company that
Speaker 3: focuses on data security, data governance, collaboration software. The startup
Speaker 3: is rates about one hundred and forty million dollars from
Speaker 3: backers including Golden Sachs, Kleiner Perkins, Google Ventures, and it's
Speaker 3: got an annual runwrate of more than two hundred million dollars,
Speaker 3: growing between twenty five and thirty five percent.
Speaker 2: With us is with us is Vanite Jane. He is
Speaker 2: co founder and CEO of Ignite Vanit. It is so
Speaker 2: good to have you here with us. We want to
Speaker 2: talk about your business and kind of get your thoughts
Speaker 2: on some different things. But what are you guys seeing
Speaker 2: in terms of the business environment.
Speaker 5: You know why you're hearing a lot about how the
Speaker 5: spending climate is very tough for extra deal scrutiny. Every
Speaker 5: dollar spend, especially on subscription services leave aside hardware is
Speaker 5: being questioned. While all that is true, we're kind of
Speaker 5: seeing a dichotomy. There's a class of companies which are
Speaker 5: eking out respectable growth present company included, versus those which
Speaker 5: are not making the earnings or whatever the expected earnings were.
Speaker 5: So I think it is coming down to execution and
Speaker 5: the focus in terms of refining your go to market
Speaker 5: product market mix, and therefore the performance is kind of mixed.
Speaker 5: Some companies are doing very well, a lot of companies
Speaker 5: are struggling.
Speaker 2: Sa viny from your perspective advantage point, how would you
Speaker 2: describe the economy?
Speaker 5: So when I look at our target market, because my
Speaker 5: answer is going to be in the context of the
Speaker 5: market were going after both in terms of geographies and
Speaker 5: certain industries. So we are predominantly North America. Eighty eight
Speaker 5: percent of our revenue comes from North America, twelve percent
Speaker 5: from Europe. And within the US, there are three industries
Speaker 5: we're focused on specifically. One is AEC, which is an
Speaker 5: acronym for architecture entering construction. The second one is biotech
Speaker 5: life sciences. Third one is financial services AC in particular
Speaker 5: is booming. Construction companies, architecture entering firms that we speak with,
Speaker 5: they're saying they have a book of business which is
Speaker 5: filled out till end of next year. But even there,
Speaker 5: you're seeing companies focused in Florida, companies focused in Texas
Speaker 5: they're doing very well. Companies focused in New York or
Speaker 5: let's say my neck of the goods, San Francisco not
Speaker 5: so much. Biotech life sciences is taken up in terms
Speaker 5: of lack of follow funding funding being hard to come by,
Speaker 5: but financial services, on the other hand, is rocketing. So
Speaker 5: it's kind of a mixed back. So from my perspective,
Speaker 5: if something ebbs, something else flows, and we just have
Speaker 5: to figure out how to make our numbers to be
Speaker 5: in that twenty five to thirty person growth range, which
Speaker 5: has been core to our operations for the last eight years.
Speaker 2: The geographical difference is is it just because that's where
Speaker 2: certain markets are located in terms of your three different
Speaker 2: businesses or what's doing well versus not? Or is it
Speaker 2: because more expensive parts of the country to kind of
Speaker 2: live and operate for businesses and that's problematic. I'm just
Speaker 2: curious about those I thought it was interesting you said
Speaker 2: Texas doing.
Speaker 3: Well or is it secut or not?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what I'm trying to get to. Is
Speaker 2: it or is it sector based?
Speaker 5: You know, it's predominantly sector based. But then when you
Speaker 5: look at biotech life sciences, it's concentrated in three areas, right,
Speaker 5: It's San Diego, South, San Francisco, and Boston. But honestly,
Speaker 5: as you said, it kind of boils down to very
Speaker 5: specific industries and within that the size of the company.
Speaker 5: Like when you look at construction engineering, the big gcs,
Speaker 5: general contractors, mid size, small sized, subcons, electrical, mechanical, they're
Speaker 5: all doing very well. But in life sciences the early
Speaker 5: stage they emerging biotech they're struggling, whereas the big guy,
Speaker 5: especially the ones if they are in the obcit drug
Speaker 5: business like you've been hearing about the monor disk Ali
Speaker 5: Lilly business is going.
Speaker 3: That's Vinet Jane, the co founder and CEO of Ignite.
Speaker 3: More from Venie on the Business Week podcast feed, including
Speaker 3: his company's prospects for an IPO, and that wraps up
Speaker 3: the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business
Speaker 3: Week from Bloomberg Radio. Ahead in our next hour, it's
Speaker 3: a holiday weekend and we're talking food, or maybe a
Speaker 3: lack thereof. Our Business Week team explores how ozempic may
Speaker 3: have rocked Thanksgiving meals everywhere. Does that mean, Carol, I
Speaker 3: only have to bring one cheesecake rather than two cheesecakes?
Speaker 2: That just might be especially there are folks tapping into
Speaker 2: ozempic at your Thanksgiving dinner table, all right? Plus what's
Speaker 2: on the menu of fast casual dining. Pioneer ron Shake
Speaker 2: chef Emeral Lagassi's son e J carves his own culinary path.
Speaker 2: We'll hear from him as well. And a ninety year
Speaker 2: old coffee maker prepares for the future. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm hungry, and.
Speaker 3: I'm Tim Steneveek. Stay with us. Today's top stories and
Speaker 3: global business headlines are coming up right now.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the bloom Work Business app, and YouTube. You can also
Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,
Speaker 1: Just Say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Plenty ahead in our second hour of this holiday weekend
Speaker 2: edition of Bloomberg Business Week, A very happy Thanksgiving to everybody.
Speaker 2: We've got coming up a conversation with the son of
Speaker 2: renowned chef em roal Lagasi. I'm continuing a family tradition
Speaker 2: in the kitchen, and along those same lines, the patriarch
Speaker 2: of coffee and espresso maker Elei Cafe tells us what's
Speaker 2: next for the ninety year old company.
Speaker 3: Plus o Zapick and other weight loss drugs appear to
Speaker 3: have made a big dent in Thanksgiving food consumption, while
Speaker 3: let's focus on the turkey and trimmings could be an
Speaker 3: ominous sign of what's to come for food companies.
Speaker 2: Man, it's a series of drugs that's just disrupting our
Speaker 2: world in so many ways. All right, First up this hour,
Speaker 2: we welcome back Ron Shake. He is the founder and
Speaker 2: former chairman and CEO of Panera Bread and Albon Pan
Speaker 2: and is today the chairman of Cava, Tate, Life Alive
Speaker 2: and Level ninety nine.
Speaker 3: He recently joined us to discuss his new book, Know
Speaker 3: What Matters, lessons from a lifetime of transformations in his
Speaker 3: path to becoming the father of fast casual dining.
Speaker 10: You know, we sold can Era for seven billion dollars
Speaker 10: and put it in good hands. And we're just applying
Speaker 10: the very same disciplines. We're picking the categories of the future,
Speaker 10: the categories with tailwinds, and then we're helping build the
Speaker 10: dominant brands in those categories. Mediterranean, positive eating, immersive entertainment,
Speaker 10: third wave, bakery, cafe. It's literally the same thing, transformation,
Speaker 10: over and over and over. But but you know, you
Speaker 10: asked me about fast casual. It's hard for me to imagine.
Speaker 10: I can remember nineteen ninety three, ninety four, and ninety
Speaker 10: five and we were beginning to think about what fast
Speaker 10: casual could be. It was simply a reaction to what
Speaker 10: existed at that time, fast food and fine dining, and
Speaker 10: with empathy, we we're looking at We're talking to consumers
Speaker 10: and they were saying I wanted something more, I want,
Speaker 10: you know, And we began to imagine if we could
Speaker 10: deliver real food environments that engage our customers, if we
Speaker 10: could do it with people who cared, we had the
Speaker 10: opportunity to change the currencies of that industry. The currencies
Speaker 10: of fast food were a lot of food for not
Speaker 10: a lot of money, and we began to say what
Speaker 10: we could offer is actually something that elevated people's self
Speaker 10: esteem for just a few dollars. More, what's amazing to
Speaker 10: me is that understanding, this understanding that people wanted something
Speaker 10: better has grown into, as you put it, one hundred
Speaker 10: and ninety billion dollars. And the truth of the matter
Speaker 10: is the number one thing in business is trying to
Speaker 10: understand with empathy what drives consumers, what matters to them,
Speaker 10: What are they going to care about tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Brands, you know, get caught up in politics. Your brands haven't.
Speaker 2: But it's just interesting that it's it's tough running a
Speaker 2: brand or creating a brand and making sure you're tapping
Speaker 2: in to consumers in a way that doesn't alienate right
Speaker 2: or even like whether through advertising or marketing, like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know how you think about that.
Speaker 2: You know, the companies there's been Disney targeted, Budweiser that
Speaker 2: have been targeted. It's sometimes hard being a company in
Speaker 2: today's space.
Speaker 10: Totally, and I'm glad I'm not a CEO having to
Speaker 10: make those determinations. But having said that, I'll speak to
Speaker 10: it because I have and over years I've taken positions
Speaker 10: and and and here's the point We don't want to
Speaker 10: allow our brands to be the bully pulpit for whatever
Speaker 10: political forces are playing out in society. We represent our shareholders.
Speaker 10: We need to be careful. But what we do want
Speaker 10: to do is take positions relative to issues of humanity,
Speaker 10: and that's very different than political stands. So let me
Speaker 10: let me be clear. You you need to call out
Speaker 10: the atrocity of what Hamas did simultaneously during the George
Speaker 10: Floyd instance, you need to call out the lack of
Speaker 10: humanity in what happened to George Floyd. You have to
Speaker 10: call out that the death of innocent children in Gaza.
Speaker 10: They're all issues of humanity. And my point is at
Speaker 10: the core, we have a responsibility to validate and speak
Speaker 10: to the human needs of our team members and our consumers,
Speaker 10: and in every one of those cases, they are all
Speaker 10: about humanity and calling that out in a real way. Ron.
Speaker 3: It's interesting you've used several times in our interview, which
Speaker 3: has just been a few minutes, the word empathy, and
Speaker 3: you've set humanity several times. And you know, at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, we're talking about fast casual restaurants,
Speaker 3: you know, And I'm just really interested to hear this approach,
Speaker 3: whether it you know, and how it comes to your customers,
Speaker 3: and how it comes to your employees, and how it
Speaker 3: comes to you deciding Okay, what's the next thing that
Speaker 3: a customer is going to want tomorrow? And how is
Speaker 3: empathy tied into that?
Speaker 10: You know, that's that's great, Tim, It's at the very
Speaker 10: core of everything.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 10: We're in a consumer business and the most powerful skill
Speaker 10: in business, in leading these companies is to feel, is
Speaker 10: to feel the needs of our guests. The reason, the
Speaker 10: only reason to exist is to be a better competitive alternative.
Speaker 10: A lot of the discussion we have on these kinds
Speaker 10: of programs are about value creation. But value creation is
Speaker 10: not something I can make. It's a byproduct. It's a
Speaker 10: byproduct of what It's a byproduct of being a better
Speaker 10: competitive alternative. For some consumers. What is a better competitive alternative?
Speaker 10: It means I'm a place that my target customer are
Speaker 10: going to walk past my competitors and choose us. That's
Speaker 10: the essence of value. That's what creates value. So the
Speaker 10: means to that is understanding what drives my consumer, listening
Speaker 10: to them, and that's where empathy comes in, and then
Speaker 10: being able to do it So the mantra in this
Speaker 10: book is tell the truth, figure out or know what matters,
Speaker 10: and then get it done and over and over and over.
Speaker 10: That has worked.
Speaker 2: Ron is it easier to do it in a private
Speaker 2: company privately held company versus a publicly held company, And
Speaker 2: you've seen both sides of.
Speaker 7: That for sure.
Speaker 10: I mean, the less the constituents, the easier.
Speaker 7: It is for all of us.
Speaker 10: Having said that, we just were involved in the IPO
Speaker 10: of Cava. Cava is a superb public company. Deserves to
Speaker 10: be public, but not every company does. Nine of the
Speaker 10: CEOs I talk to who go public live to regret it.
Speaker 10: I don't think that's going to happen in Cava. Cava
Speaker 10: is a powerfully strong brand. It exists in a category
Speaker 10: with powerful tailwinds Mediterranean and Mediterranean is powerful. It's the
Speaker 10: number one diet in the country. It's got bold but
Speaker 10: familiar flavors, flavors that feel safe, and Covet has been
Speaker 10: built to be the dominant brand in that category. It's
Speaker 10: because of that and because it's got so much growth
Speaker 10: ahead of it, which really is what drives the multiple.
Speaker 10: So much growth ahead of it that it deserves to
Speaker 10: be a public company. It's got a management team that
Speaker 10: knows how to run a public company. It's got an
Speaker 10: organization that can run a larger organization. It's been prepared
Speaker 10: to be a public company. But the truth of the
Speaker 10: matter is many companies aren't ripe or right to be
Speaker 10: a public company.
Speaker 3: What's one fast casual chain or restaurant that you wish
Speaker 3: you were a part of, but you're.
Speaker 10: Not Freezing Cane, Chick fil A. They're all great. I honestly,
Speaker 10: I love the concepts where invested in. You know, Tate
Speaker 10: is killing it Life Alive, you know level ninety nine.
Speaker 10: I mean, we wouldn't have put our own money on
Speaker 10: the line. This is our money.
Speaker 7: We don't have LPs.
Speaker 10: We took about two hundred and fifty million and now
Speaker 10: a portfolio worth an excess of a billion dollars.
Speaker 9: Ron.
Speaker 2: What I wonder about is know what matters? Tell us
Speaker 2: about this book and why you wanted to do it,
Speaker 2: and why you wanted to do it now.
Speaker 10: You know, I wanted this book for my kids. I
Speaker 10: wanted this book for all the companies we're investing in.
Speaker 10: There's a way to do it, a better way to
Speaker 10: do it, a way to build a company of quality,
Speaker 10: and build a company that has values. And I also
Speaker 10: very much wanted to write something that broke the genre.
Speaker 10: Most of these books written by former CEOs are you
Speaker 10: know stories. They're saying I did it. You know, I
Speaker 10: did very well. You know, if you do like I do,
Speaker 10: you can do well. That's not the reality. This is
Speaker 10: tough stuff, and I wanted to speak about how do
Speaker 10: you do it, how do you figure out today what's
Speaker 10: going to matter tomorrow, how do you run a large
Speaker 10: public company? Thank you, how do you figure out what
Speaker 10: it means to be an entrepreneur? And then, most importantly,
Speaker 10: what I wanted was to speak about the humanity of
Speaker 10: the experience of running a public company. What it means
Speaker 10: when you have people's lives on the line, when you
Speaker 10: have thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that are counting
Speaker 10: on you to make the right decision, six seven eight
Speaker 10: billion dollars of investor capital on the line, and what
Speaker 10: that feels like sitting on your shoulders when you're taking
Speaker 10: these companies through massive transformation. So that, to me, is
Speaker 10: the really powerful stuff in this book, the lessons and
Speaker 10: the humanity of it, as opposed to simply.
Speaker 3: The stories that's ron shake chairman and lead investor in
Speaker 3: Kaba Tate, Life Alive and Level ninety nine. His new
Speaker 3: book Know What Matters is out now.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, we go
Speaker 2: inside the kitchen with EJ. Lagassi, one of celebrity chef
Speaker 2: Emerald Agassi, who's continuing a decades long tradition of culinary greatness.
Speaker 6: You know, there's a standard that I learned as coming
Speaker 6: up and working in our family restaurants and stuff like
Speaker 6: that and just being around there that I was taught
Speaker 6: to upkeep, and I think the goal is just sort
Speaker 6: of curating that, bringing the restaurants into the next stage
Speaker 6: of their lives. You know, their restaurants that have been
Speaker 6: around for thirty three years. You can't throw a stick
Speaker 6: of dynamite in the room and cover the years and
Speaker 6: just let the place, you know, change totally.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Just about a year ago, Tim and I caught up
Speaker 2: with one of the iconic chefs of our time. We're
Speaker 2: talking about Emerald Lagasi. We spoke with him about his
Speaker 2: cooking show on Roku that had just come out, and
Speaker 2: also about sharing his passion with the next generation, specifically
Speaker 2: his son e J.
Speaker 3: And exactly one year to the day from when Emerald
Speaker 3: paid a visit to our New York studios, we had
Speaker 3: the pleasure of catching up with Ej too. He had
Speaker 3: just received the prestigious New Talent of the Year award
Speaker 3: from La List. It's a French ranking and restaurant's guide,
Speaker 3: and yet his attention remains solely on his craft, not
Speaker 3: when it comes to the accolades.
Speaker 6: I have a love for food myself, right that I
Speaker 6: think is independent from my father a bit, you know.
Speaker 6: I think that there's a lot of passion that I
Speaker 6: have for it. That is, that is a naturally occurring passion,
Speaker 6: but it certainly you know, exaggerated the passion having my
Speaker 6: dad be so involved and always willing to show, you know,
Speaker 6: in a sort of educational sense, show a lot about cooking,
Speaker 6: which was which was great. He did it on television
Speaker 6: for many years, showing everybody, you know, how to cook
Speaker 6: and things like that.
Speaker 2: Kind of really one of the first individuals if you
Speaker 2: think about it, I think so.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think so, And it carried over for shore
Speaker 6: into the house.
Speaker 3: So I want to know how you felt about the
Speaker 3: desire to prove yourself in the kitchen. Yah, when you
Speaker 3: come from a family that is so well known for cooking,
Speaker 3: when somebody who might not know you might say to themselves, well,
Speaker 3: look where he is. He's only there because of who
Speaker 3: his dad is. How do you deal with that criticism?
Speaker 3: How do you push past it?
Speaker 6: Well, you know, it's something that probably comes up quite
Speaker 6: a bit that some people would throw on.
Speaker 1: Look.
Speaker 6: I mean the thing is is, I know I'm comfortable
Speaker 6: in my own skin. I know the fact that I've
Speaker 6: spent hours in the kitchens right and not ours, which
Speaker 6: is what I think the big thing was. I think
Speaker 6: had I stayed in just our kitchens and just been
Speaker 6: at Emeralds or something, that it would very easily be
Speaker 6: who pushed you to work harder?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 6: I remember very early conversation with my father. I mean,
Speaker 6: you know, it's a conversation with me. I'm like thirteen,
Speaker 6: fourteen years old. He's like, you're going to have to
Speaker 6: work twice as hard as anybody in the room because
Speaker 6: of that. And really so that was I think part
Speaker 6: of the whole philosophy of me maybe leaving the nest
Speaker 6: and going and working other places. And I work here
Speaker 6: in New York for a bit, and then in London
Speaker 6: and in Stockholm as well, and so was able to
Speaker 6: see how other people did it, and and and I
Speaker 6: think that that was a big key and being confident
Speaker 6: myself to be able to push past that. And then
Speaker 6: for the you know, for the the comment that comes
Speaker 6: from that, you know, I just invite people to, you know,
Speaker 6: eat at the restaurant. That's really all I can do
Speaker 6: is cook at that point.
Speaker 2: And we want to talk about the restaurant that just
Speaker 2: is reopening after renovation in New Orleans. But you did
Speaker 2: go to culinary school.
Speaker 9: I graduated a.
Speaker 6: Year No, I graduated, uh three years ago, three years ago,
Speaker 6: twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: One one, forgive me, forgive me. And then you were
Speaker 2: what did you learn in that process of kind of
Speaker 2: you said, you like you learned different ways of people
Speaker 2: doing it. But what was that process like as you
Speaker 2: go around the.
Speaker 6: World, Well, you know the process, and did you.
Speaker 2: Have an advantage when people are like, I know that
Speaker 2: last name.
Speaker 6: No, you know, I was an art in Europe. In Europe,
Speaker 6: not really many people knew. I mean here in New
Speaker 6: York they knew and and and some of the restaurants
Speaker 6: that I worked in here it was it was really
Speaker 6: nice because some of them actually kept people from knowing that.
Speaker 6: It ended up coming out eventually anyway. But it was
Speaker 6: like sith, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I wasn't, you know,
Speaker 6: John smithing my way through the restaurants. But it was
Speaker 6: it was. It was a process of working and learning.
Speaker 6: And it's not just actually like technique or you know,
Speaker 6: recipes or ingredients and things like that. It was how
Speaker 6: people conduct themselves in kitchens. I think that was a
Speaker 6: lot of it too, and how to conduct themselves as
Speaker 6: restaurant tours and as chefs that I think I picked up.
Speaker 6: And you know, it's like learning a language. When you're young.
Speaker 6: You're like a sponge at that point. So yeah, but
Speaker 6: you're learning. I mean, my my, my dad's an older
Speaker 6: gentleman now, and I'm he's not a younger. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 6: what is it like mid sixties. Yeah, he's like sixty four. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, and so hey, no, no.
Speaker 2: No, John Tucker's all upset.
Speaker 6: And and and so you know, I mean I think
Speaker 6: that there is there is that just you know, we
Speaker 6: love cooking, and and it was always going to be
Speaker 6: something that I wanted to be able to do. And
Speaker 6: that and whether I did it in the restaurants or
Speaker 6: did it for my family one day or whatever that
Speaker 6: may be, I was always going to learn how to cook,
Speaker 6: being you know, his son and that, and I think
Speaker 6: that he made sure of that, but it ended up,
Speaker 6: you know, working to my advantage.
Speaker 3: How old were you when you went to culinary school?
Speaker 6: I was seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, And how old are you
Speaker 6: know at twenty?
Speaker 3: So you're people listening might not realize how young you are.
Speaker 3: You're sure, yeah, you're I mean, even though you grew
Speaker 3: up in the in the business.
Speaker 6: I mean, you're a baby baby.
Speaker 3: It must also be difficult, though, like separating yourself. I mean,
Speaker 3: you get the same name as your dad, right, the
Speaker 3: exact sement, Yeah, separating yourself in terms of the way
Speaker 3: you think about food, the way you think about cooking.
Speaker 3: How would you say your cooking philosophy is different? Or
Speaker 3: how do you want to distinguish yourself from from your dad?
Speaker 6: You know, I I I was asked this the other
Speaker 6: day by somebody, And I don't know if there's such
Speaker 6: a need to distinguish and be different. You know, I
Speaker 6: think that there's there's a desire to continue on a
Speaker 6: legacy of stuff that's done not necessarily through food television,
Speaker 6: but through the actual restaurants themselves. And you know, there's
Speaker 6: a standard that I learned as coming up and working
Speaker 6: in our family restaurants and stuff like that and just
Speaker 6: being around there that I was taught to upkeep. And
Speaker 6: I think the goal is just sort of curating that,
Speaker 6: bringing the restaurants into the next stage of their lives.
Speaker 6: You know, their restaurants that have been around for thirty
Speaker 6: three years. You can't throw a stick of dynamite in
Speaker 6: the room and cover the years and just let the place,
Speaker 6: you know, change totally. But you know, I don't know
Speaker 6: if I focus enough personally on differentiating myself. I think
Speaker 6: it's a lot more of you know, paying homage well,
Speaker 6: trying to sort of push push things in a new
Speaker 6: contemporary direction.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the flagship in New Orleans. Emeralds all
Speaker 2: started there what some three decades and counting three decades ago,
Speaker 2: massive renovations, But you say, how you are sticking true
Speaker 2: to your dad and his legacy in terms of food,
Speaker 2: but there are new tasting menus and you are shaking
Speaker 2: it up a bit. Talk to us about the reboot.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's been it's been really great fun. I've
Speaker 6: got a fantastic team at the restaurant. I'd say it's
Speaker 6: probably split fifty to fifty New Orleanians to people that
Speaker 6: are from around the country as well some people that
Speaker 6: I worked with beforehand that have now come and joined us,
Speaker 6: which has been a real pleasure and an honor. But
Speaker 6: you know, I think the fun thing is now Emeralds
Speaker 6: always had a tasting menu. There was the Ala Kart
Speaker 6: menu in the tasting menu. It was always I mean,
Speaker 6: I've heard stories of you know, Chef Charlie Trotter and
Speaker 6: my dad back in the day, like faxing each other
Speaker 6: tasting menus back and forth and things like that. All
Speaker 6: the great stories you hear, and you know, so we've
Speaker 6: always had a tasting menu, and so I think that
Speaker 6: when I decided to do two tasting menus, it's a
Speaker 6: classic menu and a seasonal menu. It's my take on
Speaker 6: sort of like the Greatest Hits album, if you will,
Speaker 6: with the classics menu and then with the seasonal stuff,
Speaker 6: we're really pushing something that my dad was super proud
Speaker 6: of a long time ago, which was the seasonality of
Speaker 6: the produce in Louisiana. You know, we're blessed being in
Speaker 6: the Gulf of Mexico and the Gulf South region to
Speaker 6: be able to have some of the most incredible seafood,
Speaker 6: I think personally in the world. And so it's a
Speaker 6: high utilization of that. It's a lot of local veg
Speaker 6: local produce that's coming from independent farmers and things. And
Speaker 6: you know, my dad did a lot of that, and
Speaker 6: I hear a lot of the stories of him from
Speaker 6: purveyors that are, you know, in their fifties and their
Speaker 6: forties and their sixties that are telling me, hey, I
Speaker 6: remember when your dad came to New Orleans and he
Speaker 6: did this, this, this, and this and this that and
Speaker 6: the other. And I think getting to hear those stories,
Speaker 6: it's quite fun. And you know, I say to myself,
Speaker 6: I said it to my dad the other day, this
Speaker 6: when we opened the restaurant. I said, this must have
Speaker 6: been what it felt like when you when you open
Speaker 6: the restaurant, because it was just like, I mean, knew
Speaker 6: it was just I think, you know, the opening day,
Speaker 6: we didn't open until five pm for dinner service, and
Speaker 6: I think I showed up at five am just because
Speaker 6: I couldn't sleep. I was so excited.
Speaker 2: You know, Well, why do you ask your dad about
Speaker 2: the business?
Speaker 6: I mean I call him from anything from you know,
Speaker 6: shrimp stock tips to to you know, how we're going
Speaker 6: to get labor down this month. It just depends on
Speaker 6: sort of really you know, what's needed at the moment.
Speaker 6: He's a wealth of knowledge. I've understood that since I
Speaker 6: was little. His friends are wealth of knowledge and being
Speaker 6: able to have the relationship. I mean, that is the
Speaker 6: leg up that I have is that I'm able to
Speaker 6: contact people and really ask their advice on things that
Speaker 6: I couldn't even dream of knowing the answer to. So
Speaker 6: that's a great benefit to me.
Speaker 3: That's e J Legasi, chef in Restaurant Tour and of
Speaker 3: course the son of Emerald Legasi. More of our conversation
Speaker 3: with Ej is available on our podcast feed.
Speaker 2: Just twenty years old, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I don't. Yeah, he's like and he's done
Speaker 3: with culinary school and already has a restaurant.
Speaker 2: Oh my God, all right, still to come on Blueberg
Speaker 2: Business Week. Whether it's a cup of coffee in the
Speaker 2: morning or an espresso after a great meal, one name
Speaker 2: has managed to become synonymous with both.
Speaker 3: Eally, the chairman of the ninety year old family run business,
Speaker 3: breaks down the massive global market. Next, this is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio,
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app and YouTube. You can also listen
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa to play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Well, we've been talking a lot about food on this
Speaker 2: holiday week, and we also have to acknowledge a favorite
Speaker 2: beverage for hundreds of millions of people around the world. No,
Speaker 2: we're not talking about beer or wine. We're talking about coffee,
Speaker 2: and I think it's safe to say. Our next guest
Speaker 2: is an expert on the subject.
Speaker 3: Elie Cafe chairman Andrea Eely, the grandson of Eli, founder
Speaker 3: of Francesco Ely, who started the coffee company ninety years
Speaker 3: ago in Italy. By the way, if you had any
Speaker 3: sort of espresso drink today. You can thank Andrea's grandfather
Speaker 3: because he invented the steam driven coffee maker that we
Speaker 3: now know as espresso machines.
Speaker 2: What was it like growing up with that history.
Speaker 9: Oh, I felt it was coffee was at the center
Speaker 9: of the universe because my father, as I am, was
Speaker 9: a chemist, always thinking and talking about coffee, and he
Speaker 9: started drinking coffee, sipping, let's say, coffee, when I was
Speaker 9: two and a half years old, and since then always coffee, coffee, coffee.
Speaker 2: Cofee, always coffee cofee.
Speaker 3: So there's no it's not too two is not too
Speaker 3: young to drink coffee.
Speaker 9: No, it was just sipping, you know, admiring my mother,
Speaker 9: you know, trying to prepare express with these little tiny
Speaker 9: express machines at home at the time, no capsules that
Speaker 9: were still existing, because we started the very first capsule
Speaker 9: portion fifteen years later than that, in order to you know,
Speaker 9: make it easier to produce coffee everywhere in the restaurants
Speaker 9: or offices or home. But before that it was quite difficult.
Speaker 9: You needed to be a trained barista. But in this
Speaker 9: case you need to have a cumber zomee, a big
Speaker 9: machine at home was very difficult, so and my father
Speaker 9: I nicknamed her the Engineer of Coffee, you know, was
Speaker 9: a precursor to this, you know, expertise in home express
Speaker 9: of brewing.
Speaker 2: So Andrea, how comes is there's so many bad cups
Speaker 2: of coffee out there? What makes a great cup of coffee?
Speaker 9: Well, you need good beans, first of all, and it's
Speaker 9: difficult to access them, just to tell you. In order
Speaker 9: to access to good beans with this pioneer the direct
Speaker 9: in nineteen ninety one, so we did organize ourselves to
Speaker 9: go direct, working hand in hand with coffee growers. And
Speaker 9: the second major step has been creating the University of
Speaker 9: Coffee in order to transfer knowledge to them how to
Speaker 9: elevate their agronomical practices for better sustainable quality. And this
Speaker 9: is the reason why we had this award that we
Speaker 9: are giving tomorrow to the best growers of the nine
Speaker 9: let's say origins where we sous coffee from. But producing
Speaker 9: high quality coffee is not an easy job. So direct Trading,
Speaker 9: University of Coffee Electronics sorting out every single beam. This
Speaker 9: has been one of our patents, sorting every single bean,
Speaker 9: because one defective bean can spoil up to one keylo
Speaker 9: of coffee. You know, this is an amazing. Let's say
Speaker 9: science behind and this is the reason why I'm second
Speaker 9: generation scientist, a chemist for coffee.
Speaker 7: For coffee quality.
Speaker 3: How often do you find a bad being that could
Speaker 3: spoil an entire kilo of coffee?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 3: How how what is the rate of a bad being
Speaker 3: within a badge?
Speaker 9: So at the time we started sorting, it was maybe
Speaker 9: two three percent. Now is less than half a percent. Also,
Speaker 9: because in the meantime we did improve substantially agronomical practices,
Speaker 9: some of these defective beans could be invisible because maybe
Speaker 9: they have some off flavors that you cannot that you
Speaker 9: cannot find, So it can still happen. But if everything
Speaker 9: is well processed, then you can prevent that. But this
Speaker 9: is not the standard in the industry because the coffee
Speaker 9: coffee growers produce for us are specifically produced for us.
Speaker 9: We buy coffee upon our own standards. Coffee rollers like
Speaker 9: to joke about it. Eli coffee doesn't exist because it
Speaker 9: doesn't correspond to any official market standard. And this is
Speaker 9: the reason why we also pay a substantial premium for that,
Speaker 9: because on average we pay thirty percent premium on top
Speaker 9: of the best highest coffee prices in order to motivate
Speaker 9: them and reward them for the extra effort for producing
Speaker 9: superior quality.
Speaker 2: Is it harder to grow better coffee beans?
Speaker 9: It is harder. You need the right people. This is
Speaker 9: why direct sourcing because we need to really get access
Speaker 9: to the people who are, let's say, philosophically seeking the
Speaker 9: best in life. No matter how rich or how educated
Speaker 9: they are, there are some people like that. You need
Speaker 9: to find the perfect ecosystem. Yeah, you know, weather, soil,
Speaker 9: like the turire, they.
Speaker 2: Tie the I feel like I'm talking about wine.
Speaker 9: Exactly exactly the same. You need to find the right cultivar,
Speaker 9: so the right plant, and finally you need those people
Speaker 9: to process coffee in a way which is perfect. So yes,
Speaker 9: it takes quite an.
Speaker 2: Effort and increasingly sustainable, which when you talk about standards.
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about this award
Speaker 2: that is being given at the United Nations, the unesto
Speaker 2: ELI International Coffee Award. It is to the individual, the
Speaker 2: farmer that produce the most sustainable coffee. And what's interesting
Speaker 2: is that we're having this conversation. I've talked with the
Speaker 2: folks over at ab and BEV like they understand the
Speaker 2: importance of water, like their business will not continue unless
Speaker 2: they have great access to water and other things. Obviously
Speaker 2: crops that go into beverages. Same thing for you guys,
Speaker 2: right in terms of the impact on the environment, Yes,
Speaker 2: your businesses, you need to make sure it's done in
Speaker 2: a sustainable so.
Speaker 9: Yes, the award is for the lest sustainable quality. So
Speaker 9: in the company was born ninety years ago upon my
Speaker 9: grandfather dreamed to offer the greatest coffee, and so as
Speaker 9: a strategy we decided to have only one because the
Speaker 9: greatest can be only one, right, and of course the
Speaker 9: greatest need only need must only not only be the
Speaker 9: best in taste, but also the best in how it
Speaker 9: is produced. Actually, as a matter of fact, sustainability and
Speaker 9: quality are two phases of the same coin. You don't
Speaker 9: have the one.
Speaker 7: Without the others.
Speaker 9: So it's not difficult for us to kind of, let's say,
Speaker 9: find find a way. And this award, this blend that
Speaker 9: we produce is made of nine origins because each origin
Speaker 9: has a different aroma profile. It's like having a nice orchestra,
Speaker 9: and the more instruments you have, the richest the orchestra. Okay,
Speaker 9: so nine and the three best growers of each of
Speaker 9: the nine origins are awarded tomorrow at the United Nations,
Speaker 9: so they would know who's the first, second, and third
Speaker 9: and go back home with extreme satisfaction and being completely
Speaker 9: boosted motivation wise, etc. Which is also helping them to
Speaker 9: sell the rest of the coffee. They don't sell too
Speaker 9: early to the rest of the market at premiums. So
Speaker 9: the company ily Cafe has been a knowledge in many
Speaker 9: countries for having contributed to transform the coffee industry in
Speaker 9: a let's say, more sustainable way, and this is we
Speaker 9: are very proud of.
Speaker 2: I want to get to climate change and the impact
Speaker 2: it has had on farmers who grow coffee beings.
Speaker 9: Yeah, coffee growing, coffee agriculture is very very sensitive to
Speaker 9: climate conditions. Do you have narrow conditions to grow coffee
Speaker 9: in terms of temperature and rain? And as a consequence
Speaker 9: of climate change, up to fifty percent of the currently
Speaker 9: suitable land will be gone by twenty fifty. Already there
Speaker 9: are some countries which are gradually exiting the market. There's
Speaker 9: a consequence of climate change, so we have to adapt
Speaker 9: as quickly as possible. And in order to adapt, there
Speaker 9: are three sequential actions to be done. First, improving the
Speaker 9: agronomical practices transitioning regenerative agriculture seems to be the most promising.
Speaker 9: One second most important move is rejuvenating the plantation themselves
Speaker 9: with younger plants, but also plants made of new varieties
Speaker 9: which are more resistant to the adverse conditions caused by
Speaker 9: climate change. And only if these to first initiatives are
Speaker 9: not enough, then you can consider moving by grating the
Speaker 9: plantation too higher latitudes or higher altitudes where you can
Speaker 9: meet at milder climates.
Speaker 3: That's Elie Cafe chairman Andrea Eely. He also told us
Speaker 3: the company is still eyeing an IPO in twenty twenty six,
Speaker 3: so we'll certainly be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, we wrap
Speaker 2: up with the sobering reality facing food manufacturers and retailers.
Speaker 3: Millions of Americans are now taking appetite suppressing drugs, and
Speaker 3: that's whang on the bottom line. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Winding down on this post Thanksgiving edition of Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 2: our magazine team has a store that adds some irony
Speaker 2: to a holiday known for high levels of food consumption.
Speaker 2: Americans are eating less these days, actually a lot less.
Speaker 3: Prescriptions for US of drugs known as GLP one agonists
Speaker 3: such as ozempic and wegovy quadrupled from twenty twenty to
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two, and it looks like there's plenty more
Speaker 3: growth ahead for these pharmaceuticals in the US as drug
Speaker 3: maker search for even more clinical uses. Blueberg News consumer
Speaker 3: reporter Dina Shanker has more.
Speaker 11: Millions of Americans now are taking these drugs. They are
Speaker 11: up three hundred percent. They are just getting really really
Speaker 11: popular for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: It's like off the charts. It's pretty wild. I've seen
Speaker 2: it firsthand with people who are using it or taking it,
Speaker 2: and it really does reduce their appetite in a big,
Speaker 2: big way. They're just not hungry. So I think about
Speaker 2: the impact of that. Talked about some of the specific
Speaker 2: people you talk to.
Speaker 11: So I spoke to four different people that are currently
Speaker 11: taking the drugs, and everyone was really happy with the
Speaker 11: changes in their life and especially what it meant for Thanksgiving.
Speaker 11: One woman I spoke to talked about not just for herself,
Speaker 11: but also her children'een and twenty one years.
Speaker 2: Old, who have been taking these drugs.
Speaker 11: And they have just seen not just great weight loss results,
Speaker 11: which I know everybody wants when they're taking them, but.
Speaker 2: They're also just looking at their food differently.
Speaker 11: They're open to her kids are open to eating things
Speaker 11: that they weren't eating before.
Speaker 8: She was so.
Speaker 11: Excited about how now she gets to add more fruits
Speaker 11: and vegetables to the table. And everyone I spoke to
Speaker 11: is thinking about the holiday differently. Another woman I spoke
Speaker 11: with for Thanksgiving, she said she used to spend weeks
Speaker 11: in advance, you know, looking for the best recipes as
Speaker 11: she got her menu ready. But one of the things
Speaker 11: that these drugs do is they turn off the food noise,
Speaker 11: as it's called, so you're just not thinking about the
Speaker 11: food all the time. So she's like, I'll do She's
Speaker 11: still going to make everything, and she's actually even skipping
Speaker 11: her shot so that she can enjoy yourself a bit more.
Speaker 11: But she's just not thinking about food all the time.
Speaker 3: That's so interesting. I just want to cut you off here.
Speaker 3: Dina what you skipping her shot? What do you mean
Speaker 3: by that? Because these are monthly injections, right.
Speaker 5: Weekly, I believe weekly?
Speaker 11: Okay, skipping this week?
Speaker 3: So she's skipping this week, So that means she's sounds great?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 3: But is that? I mean, I know you're not a doctor,
Speaker 3: we're not doctors here, but is that? Is that how
Speaker 3: the shot works?
Speaker 11: She thinks it's going to work for her that way?
Speaker 11: I don't know that doctors would advise people to do this.
Speaker 11: But one of the interesting things about these shots and
Speaker 11: about these drugs is that they were initially actually, you know,
Speaker 11: not for weight loss. They were for diabetes, and so
Speaker 11: a lot of the uses of them are off label,
Speaker 11: so because they're being used as a weight loss drug
Speaker 11: instead of as a as a diabetes drug. So I
Speaker 11: think what we're seeing both with the people using them
Speaker 11: and at the clinical level is a lot of they're
Speaker 11: still studying it. They're still trying to find out all
Speaker 11: the different things that these drugs can do. So for
Speaker 11: some people they have just been incredible weight loss miracle drugs,
Speaker 11: as they describe them. But I should add that one
Speaker 11: of the health professionals I spoke with, a pharmacist was
Speaker 11: really quick to make sure that we didn't discount the
Speaker 11: work that the patients are doing. That it's not just
Speaker 11: like you take your injection and you're done and you
Speaker 11: never think about food again and the pounds start melting off.
Speaker 11: She was saying how it's really important that people are
Speaker 11: learning how to manage their serving sizes. They're going for
Speaker 11: that walk after dinner, they're sticking it out through. Sometimes
Speaker 11: people experience really bad side effects like nausea, and they
Speaker 11: are really taking advantage of the benefits of the drug,
Speaker 11: but they're not completely relying on the drug.
Speaker 3: That was Bloomberg News consumer reporter Dina Shanker. Check out
Speaker 3: her story online at Bloomberg dot com or on the
Speaker 3: Bloomberg terminal.
Speaker 2: And that wraps up this weekend holiday edition a Bloomberg
Speaker 2: Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: joining us.
Speaker 3: Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through
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Speaker 2: You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just
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Speaker 3: Find our Bloomberg BusinessWeek podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple,
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts, and the latest edition
Speaker 3: of the magazine is available on newsstands now at Bloomberg
Speaker 3: dot com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. I'm Tim
Speaker 3: Steneveek Back to.
Speaker 2: The Pie we Go. I'm Carol Masser. Have a good
Speaker 2: and safe rest of your holiday weekend. Stay with us.
Speaker 2: Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Podcast. Avail little on Apple, Spotify,
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