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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

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Speaker 2: the future of this show.

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Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

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Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

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Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

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Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. Welcome to Breaking Points. Emily,

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Speaker 2: good morning, good morning.

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Speaker 3: Also, if people didn't watch the Friday show, they should

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Speaker 3: go check out Sager's.

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Speaker 4: Baby little bit of news.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, congratulations to Sager proud father of a baby girl.

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Speaker 3: And there are pictures, so if you go to Sager's

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Speaker 3: Instagram you can see the picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which I tried to pull up and failed on Friday,

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Speaker 2: but in any case, you can go check those out

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Speaker 2: for yourself. Pria June, which I think is a really

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Speaker 2: beautiful name.

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Speaker 3: So cute too, adorable, adorable, lots of hair, lots of hair.

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Speaker 5: So we're just so happy for them.

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Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, meanwhile, you were suffering through our air traffic

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Speaker 2: nightmarish landscape here over the weekend.

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Speaker 3: So my grandparents' seventieth anniversary was this weekend in Wisconsin. Wow,

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Speaker 3: seventieth anniversary.

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Speaker 4: Unbelievable.

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Speaker 5: So that nineteen fifty five, I think.

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Speaker 4: Wow, connect that's God bless amazing.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we were really excited to go. But the

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Speaker 3: Reagan Airport was a complete mess on Friday. There was

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Speaker 3: a storm that rolled through the entire terminal basically had

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Speaker 3: cancelations and delay so we were at the airport for

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Speaker 3: seven hours until like three am early early Saturday.

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Speaker 5: So the reason I.

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Speaker 3: Say that is if you have Memorial Day travel, oh,

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Speaker 3: I just be be aware that our air traffic system.

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Speaker 5: I mean everyone is already kind of aware of this.

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Speaker 3: But I think, honestly, the problems at Newark are still

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Speaker 3: that's a problem that creates tangles throughout the entire country.

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Speaker 3: It's such a big hub, So things are things are.

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Speaker 2: Rough well in Newark has gotten a lot of the

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Speaker 2: attention because they had those catastrophic failures where they actively

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Speaker 2: lost radar and were just completely blind. But the shortage

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Speaker 2: in air traffic controllers is that's nationwide.

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Speaker 4: It's a massive issue.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and they blamed actually one of the American air

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Speaker 3: gate agents when she was making announcements that was she

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Speaker 3: was like, we just haven't had enough air traffic controllers.

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Speaker 3: So and that was at Reade National, So I'm sure

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Speaker 3: that's happening in other parts of the country too. Wow,

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Speaker 3: be careful if you have a Memorial Day travel it's it's.

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Speaker 5: Rough out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, plan to be in for the long haul seriously

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Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, lots to get to you in the

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Speaker 2: show this morning. So there are some major developments out

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Speaker 2: of Gaza amidst a completely apocalyptic ground invasion from Israel.

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Speaker 2: They have agreed to let in some minimal amount of aid,

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Speaker 2: so we'll break all of that. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: moving pieces going on in the region right there. And

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Speaker 2: we also wanted to highlight for you THEO Vaugh came

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Speaker 2: out and you know said he made some comments, you know,

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Speaker 2: Mary heartfelt about how he felt that he hadn't said

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Speaker 2: enough about the what he's describing as a genocide and Gazo,

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Speaker 2: which I think is to me undeniable at this point,

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Speaker 2: so wanted to take a look at that and the

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Speaker 2: way that public opinion in the US overall has shifted

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Speaker 2: with regard to Israel and Palestine. President Biden formed. President

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Speaker 2: Biden diagnosed with a very aggressive form of prostate cancer.

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Speaker 2: We actually have a Biden insider who had already been

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Speaker 2: booked to be on the show, Michael Lorosa.

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Speaker 4: We've had him on before.

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Speaker 2: He was doctor Jill Biden's press secretary, and so he's

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Speaker 2: been talking about, you know, what he saw inside of

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Speaker 2: that world and trying to be candid about that. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, interested to hear his reaction to this cancer

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Speaker 2: diagnosis and look, just to be frank, the timing of

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Speaker 2: it raises a lot of eyebrows, especially the fact that

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Speaker 2: it is so advanced, and this would be someone who

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Speaker 2: would be seen medically, you know, would have been in

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Speaker 2: the White House seeing the White House doctors, and certainly

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Speaker 2: would be subsequent to that as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, we actually have some a lot of doctors

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Speaker 3: were weighing in after the diagnosis and some you know,

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Speaker 3: we yeah, I think we have some information from a

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Speaker 3: Yale professor who's a doctor. Like we're not talking cranks

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Speaker 3: who were weighing in on the diagnosis of Biden, in

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Speaker 3: the timing of the diagnosis, or at least the announcement

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Speaker 3: of the diagnosis.

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Speaker 5: So there's a lot to get to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: With that, Crystal Friday, Moody's agreed with the other analysts

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Speaker 3: and finally downgraded the rating of the United States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the markets are down this morning

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Speaker 2: because of it, So there's a lot there. There's some

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Speaker 2: new comments from Trump and Secretary Bessant with regard to Walmart,

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Speaker 2: saying they're going to raise prices. Trump says Walmart should

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Speaker 2: eat the tariffs, so we'll see if they oblige. We

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Speaker 2: also have our eyes on a horrific system of tornadoes

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Speaker 2: that hit the midwest, Kentucky, Missouri in particular. I think

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Speaker 2: twenty six people dead after that, and questions about whether

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Speaker 2: or not DOGE may have impacted their ability to alert

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Speaker 2: people in the area rapidly enough. So we'll dig into

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Speaker 2: all of that. And we're also going to have our

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Speaker 2: Jun Singh of lever News join us to talk about

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Speaker 2: the history of the anti tax movement, which is always relevant,

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Speaker 2: but it's particularly relevant right now as Republicans are trying

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Speaker 2: to get this Reconciliation bill pass They just passed it

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Speaker 2: down a committee actually late last night, and obviously includes

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Speaker 2: a giant tax cut for the rich. Again, even though

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Speaker 2: public opinion has really turned on the concept of this

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Speaker 2: sort of like overall trickle down concept, they're huge majorities

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Speaker 2: in both parties and certainly with Independence as well at

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Speaker 2: this point for raising taxes on the rich. So in

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Speaker 2: any case, he's going to dig into the backstory of

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Speaker 2: how we got to this moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, We've got some fun clips in history to go through.

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Speaker 3: It'll be a really interesting segment, So stay tuned for that, Crystal.

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Speaker 3: We'll be doing an AMA that's right as well. Yes,

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Speaker 3: Breakingpoints dot com by the way, to get that subscription.

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Speaker 3: If you can't get the subscription, we totally understand. Just

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Speaker 3: make sure to subscribe on YouTube. Believe comments like the videos.

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Speaker 2: It helps us, Yeah, helps us a lot. So thank

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Speaker 2: you guys for all your support that you've shown. And

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Speaker 2: if you want to be part of that AMA Live,

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Speaker 2: which we try to do every Monday or Tuesday, depending

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Speaker 2: on how long the Monday.

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Speaker 5: Show us go.

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Speaker 2: But we got on the schedule this week for Monday,

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Speaker 2: I'll make sure you do that. And one one more

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Speaker 2: announcement before we jump into what is going on in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: Dave Smith is going to join me tomorrow as so

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Speaker 2: that should be fun. I already got a bunch of topics.

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Speaker 2: You know, we'll dig into the latest on you know, Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: There's movement that I want to hear from him on

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Speaker 2: I actually want to get his take on this Epstein

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Speaker 2: thing with both Bongino and cash matel being like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he killed himself, there's really nothing to.

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Speaker 3: See here, Banino said yesterday, like I've seen the file.

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Speaker 3: He kills the whole file. I noticed suicide looks like

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Speaker 3: the other.

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Speaker 2: One he said, is that there's no there there in

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Speaker 2: terms of many like Trump assassination conspiracies as well.

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Speaker 3: Which is also absurd to fit. I mean, the stuff

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Speaker 3: going on with that assassination secret Service, it's really something

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Speaker 3: if that's where they're landing to see here less than

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Speaker 3: a year after nothing to see here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in any case, it should be fun. So I'm

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Speaker 2: looking forward to that. All right, Let's get into some

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Speaker 2: news that is quite grim, quite dire at this point.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and put a eight up on the

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Speaker 2: screen here, guys. Israel has agreed to introduce what they're

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Speaker 2: describing as a basic amount of food into Gaza in

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Speaker 2: order to prevent famine, framing it as necessary to sustain

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Speaker 2: the expansion of intense fighting to defeat Hamas. They have

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Speaker 2: the full statement here from bb Netnya, who's office is

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Speaker 2: from drop Site. They say, on the recommendation of the

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Speaker 2: IDF and out of the operational need to enable the

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Speaker 2: expansion of the intense fighting to defeat Hamas, Israel will

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Speaker 2: introduce a basic amount of food to the population in

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Speaker 2: order to ensure that famine crisis does not develop in

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Speaker 2: the Gaza strip. Such a crisis would jeopardize the continuation

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Speaker 2: of the Gideon Chariots operation to defeat Hamas, that is

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Speaker 2: the new apocalyptic ground invasion that they are conducting. Israel

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Speaker 2: will work to deny Hamas's ability to take control of

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Speaker 2: the distribution of humanitarian aid to ensure that the aid

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Speaker 2: does not reach Hamas terrorists. I also have Jeremy Scahill

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Speaker 2: of drop Site News, of course, tweeted Netnia who said

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Speaker 2: Israel will allow some aid into Gaza because controversy over

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Speaker 2: a starvation campaign is hindering implementation of his final solution quote.

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Speaker 2: We're going to take control of all the Gaza Strip,

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Speaker 2: and to do this, we need to do it in

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Speaker 2: a way that they won't stop us. Smotrich endorsed nat

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Speaker 2: Nyahu's temporary aid gimmick, saying it will allow the US

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Speaker 2: and other israel allies to continue to provide us with

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Speaker 2: an international umbrella of protection against the Security Council and

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Speaker 2: the Hague Tribunal, and for us to continue to fight

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Speaker 2: until victory. So emily, it sounds like they realized that

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Speaker 2: the world was not maybe gonna just stand by and

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Speaker 2: let them before all of our eyes start. Somewhere around

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Speaker 2: two million people left in the Gaza Strip. They also

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Speaker 2: will show you some of these images later. They are

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Speaker 2: starting to face some significant internal domestic pushback as well.

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Speaker 2: There was a march to the border fence there with

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Speaker 2: Gaza and attempts actually to cross that were you know,

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Speaker 2: of course rebuffed by the Israeli police, but they were

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Speaker 2: under enough pressure to feel like, okay, we at least

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Speaker 2: need to allow some token amount of food in. It's

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Speaker 2: been over two months since any food, water, medicine has

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Speaker 2: entered the strip, and we know that there have been

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Speaker 2: children who are I mean children who are severe malnourished

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Speaker 2: and some who have died as a result of the

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Speaker 2: starvation policy.

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Speaker 3: Well, and just to I mean make this visual for everyone,

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Speaker 3: we can go ahead and start rolling A two.

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Speaker 5: This is a mashup of some.

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Speaker 3: Footage of what we're seeing from the strip.

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Speaker 2: So this was kids who were playing in the street

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Speaker 2: in Gaza and an Israeli drone struck them. You can

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Speaker 2: see here obviously wounded being carried. These are you know,

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Speaker 2: fires amidst the bombing and just just chaos that you

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Speaker 2: can see unfolding here.

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Speaker 4: Tents that caught fire.

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Speaker 2: Here they're attempting to rescue someone from out underneath the rubble.

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Speaker 2: They haven't been allowed to have any heavy equipment in

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Speaker 2: so it's just all done by hand. Here is the

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Speaker 2: destruction of an entire neighborhood. I believe this is in

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Speaker 2: or near Rafa. A severely injured child that you see

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Speaker 2: here with head and other wounds. People who are once

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Speaker 2: again trying to looks like carry their belongings, being forcibly,

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Speaker 2: forcibly displaced once again. And here's an overall view that

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Speaker 2: you can see of the rubble and the destruction. As

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Speaker 2: people go ahead and you know.

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Speaker 3: Try to flee to wherever may be safe, you know, Crystal,

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Speaker 3: last week we were covering the internal conversation. We talked

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Speaker 3: to Jeremy Skhle about this, but in Israel about whether

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Speaker 3: or not USAID and this is from the far right

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Speaker 3: in Israel, whether or not USAID hampers them ultimately, if

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Speaker 3: it's ultimately something that holds back.

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Speaker 5: Their efforts to prosecute the war and the way that

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Speaker 5: they would want to.

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Speaker 3: And that's an interesting context that as the famine was worsening,

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Speaker 3: and as you know, they wanted to continue to go

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Speaker 3: back in, we saw them, you know, saying, well, maybe

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Speaker 3: without the US, without the money from the United States,

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Speaker 3: without the resources from the United States, we wouldn't even

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Speaker 3: have to have these conversations.

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Speaker 5: We could just do whatever we wanted.

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Speaker 3: And you know what we saw just in the last

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Speaker 3: twenty four hours at least on the AID side, is

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Speaker 3: that the pressure was successful for now.

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Speaker 5: But this is Steve Whitcough right now.

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Speaker 3: He's saying that he's not forcing Israel to end the

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Speaker 3: war according to officials. Crystal, That's where I'm most curious

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Speaker 3: about what's happened over the weekend. In particular, we still

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Speaker 3: don't have a ton of information. The Barack reviewed report

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Speaker 3: on AID and Axios suggests that US pressure was instrumental

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Speaker 3: in getting the humanitarian aid back into Gaza. But we

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Speaker 3: just we don't know what's happening behind the scenes, but

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Speaker 3: we have indications, like from Steve Whitcough, that they're not

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Speaker 3: being as let's say privately intense as they at one

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Speaker 3: point suggested that they would be.

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Speaker 2: Well, and we should be clear about what this aid

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Speaker 2: really entails. You know, Israel had gone to a number

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Speaker 2: of humanitarian aid organizations with this plan of how they

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Speaker 2: wanted to distribute aid, and they all effectively said, no,

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Speaker 2: this would be unconscionable, it would violate our principles, your

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Speaker 2: civilians at risk. You're using food as a weapon of war.

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Speaker 2: You know, even in the language that BB uses here,

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Speaker 2: he describes it as a basic amount of food. So basically,

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Speaker 2: you know, we'll give you enough so that hopefully we

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Speaker 2: don't have full blown famine and people starving to death,

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Speaker 2: because we don't think the world would just sit by

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Speaker 2: and watch that. Potentially, and maybe our own population even

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Speaker 2: would not, you know, some portion of it would not

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Speaker 2: sit back and watch that. But you know, aid organizations

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Speaker 2: rejected this as an outrageous way of going about things.

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Speaker 2: There's also some scheme that's been cooked up with US

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Speaker 2: non governmental organizations involving effectively US mercenaries who are already

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Speaker 2: arriving in Israel to be involved in this aid distribution,

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Speaker 2: this basic amount of aid distribution. They did not take

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Speaker 2: a vote in the Security Cabinet because the expectation is

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Speaker 2: that vote to allow in even this bare minimum of

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Speaker 2: food would have failed. Smochrich and Ben Gevie have been

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Speaker 2: opposed to it. But again and their justification is, if

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Speaker 2: we want to finish the job in Gaza, then apparently

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Speaker 2: we're going to have to allow in some amount of food.

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Speaker 2: So that is the context in which this is happening.

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Speaker 2: We have some comments recent comments from Trump as well

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Speaker 2: about whether or not he's frustrated with Netan Yahoo and

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Speaker 2: also once again reiterating his commitment to a full ethnic

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Speaker 2: cleansing plan. This was in an interview with Brett Barrett.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to those comments.

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Speaker 7: Obviously, the Israel Hamas and what's happening in Gaza is

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Speaker 7: driving a lot.

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Speaker 3: How do you see that?

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Speaker 5: Are you frustrated at all with Prime Minster?

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Speaker 4: Net Yahoo?

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Speaker 8: No, Look, he's got a tough situation. You have to

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Speaker 8: remember there was an October seventh that everyone forgets. It

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Speaker 8: was one of the most violent days in the history

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Speaker 8: of the world, not the Middle East, the world. When

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Speaker 8: you look at the tapes, and the tapes are there

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Speaker 8: for everyone to see. So he has that problem. That

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Speaker 8: problem should have never happen. And now if I were president,

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Speaker 8: that problem wouldn't have happened because Iran had no money.

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Speaker 8: They were stone cold broke and they weren't giving money

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Speaker 8: to Hamas. The situation in Gaza is going to come

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Speaker 8: to an end soon. The gazzas of nasty place. It's

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Speaker 8: been that way for years. I think it should become

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Speaker 8: a free zone, you know freedom. I call it a

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Speaker 8: freedom zone. It should become a freedom zone. It doesn't work.

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Speaker 8: Every ten years they go back, they have Hamas. Everybody's

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Speaker 8: being killed all over the place. I mean, you ever

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Speaker 8: see you talk about crime sets. It's it's a nasty place.

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Speaker 8: Are these people, these countries that you were just visiting,

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Speaker 8: are they going to have to be a part of

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Speaker 8: the solution. Well, they would be. They would be. I

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Speaker 8: spoke to all three of them. They would absolutely be.

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Speaker 8: I mean they're really rich and really really really even

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Speaker 8: more than rich. They're good people and they would help,

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Speaker 8: and so money's not even the problem. You got to

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Speaker 8: get countries to say, yes, we'll take them. Look, these

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Speaker 8: are people that want to be in the Middle East.

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Speaker 8: They really want to be in the Middle East. They

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Speaker 8: the Middle East. I see that there's a spirit for

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Speaker 8: the Middle East. They didn't have to go to Sweden, Germany,

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Speaker 8: these different countries. They could have been home in the

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Speaker 8: Middle East if somebody had the brains to build beautiful communities.

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Speaker 8: You know, one point nine million is a lot of people,

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Speaker 8: but it's not a lot of people.

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Speaker 5: He says.

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Speaker 2: They could be home in the Middle East. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: Palestinians will tell you their home is in Palestine. In

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Speaker 2: any case, there were reports as well about a plan

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Speaker 2: to potentially ethnically cleanse Palestinians to Libya. We can put

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Speaker 2: a four up on the screen. After the report was published.

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Speaker 2: Then they put out a denial saying this is untrue.

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Speaker 2: But NBC News had given them a chance to comment,

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Speaker 2: they didn't say anything. The Trump administration, NBC News says,

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Speaker 2: is working on a plan to permanently relocate up to

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Speaker 2: one million Palestinians from the Gaza Strip to Libya. Five

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Speaker 2: people with knowledge told NBC News the plans under serious

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Speaker 2: enough consideration. The administration is discussed it with Libya's leadership.

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Speaker 2: Don't say which factions of Libya's leadership, because Libya is

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Speaker 2: basically you know, torn as under thanks to our own

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Speaker 2: foreign policy. In any case, they say, in exchange for

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Speaker 2: the resettling of Palestinian's administration would potentially release to Libya

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Speaker 2: billions of dollars in funds that the US froze more

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Speaker 2: than a decade ago. Those three people said, so, you know,

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Speaker 2: apparently there have been some conversations there. In addition, Trump

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Speaker 2: you know, has consistently reiterated that this is his ultimate goal.

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Speaker 2: And one other note on his comments there, Emily that

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Speaker 2: I just think is you know, worth considering. He claims

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Speaker 2: in that clip we just played that there are one

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Speaker 2: point nine million people in Gaza. That would indicate that

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Speaker 2: you know, some hundreds of thousands of people have been

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Speaker 2: killed since you know, post October seventh. The original estimate

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Speaker 2: prior to October seventh was two point two to two

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Speaker 2: point three million people. So you know, drop site pointing

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Speaker 2: out that that means if his numbers are correct, and

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Speaker 2: he said similar things before too, by the way, that

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Speaker 2: this campaign's already reduced the Palestinian population in Gaza by

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Speaker 2: about fifteen percent.

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Speaker 5: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 3: Well, speaking of the Trumpman station A six, this is

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Speaker 3: a drop site report noticing as well. So we'll put

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Speaker 3: this in the context of what we were just talking

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Speaker 3: about with Steve Witcough. This is the drop site report

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Speaker 3: saying that this is from Jeremy. Steve wit Cough personally

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Speaker 3: promised to lift the Gaza blockade in exchange for Don Alexander.

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Speaker 3: And so it is now May nineteenth, and what we've seen,

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Speaker 3: as we mentioned just a couple of minutes ago, is

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Speaker 3: indications to the contrary from Steve wit Cough that or

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Speaker 3: that he's acting contrary to what Jeremy's reporting suggests.

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Speaker 5: He said that he was going to.

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Speaker 3: Do and crystal with the humanitarian aid plan that you

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Speaker 3: just laid out. This is for a wit Cough, this

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Speaker 3: is looking extremely bad. I mean, Trump puts so much

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Speaker 3: of his projects and puts so much of his hopes

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Speaker 3: onto Steve wit Coough to get an into this conflict,

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Speaker 3: but to the point where you know you're telling one

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Speaker 3: of these negotiations, which is Hamas, that you're going to

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Speaker 3: do something, you don't do it, and they just give

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Speaker 3: up a huge piece of leverage for that probably doesn't

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Speaker 3: help your ability to continue negotiating in a way that's

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Speaker 3: helpful to securing an end to the conflict.

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Speaker 2: Right there or anywhere else. Yeah, yeah, I mean if

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Speaker 2: you're Iran and you're looking at Whitkoff just told them like, okay,

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Speaker 2: you release this American Israeli hostage and we will then

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Speaker 2: you know, will secure this aid relief. We're going to

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Speaker 2: work and press for an end to the war. We're

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Speaker 2: going to give you public credit and there series of

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Speaker 2: promises that were made and then you just don't do it.

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Speaker 2: How do you think that, you know, the Russians and

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Speaker 2: the Ukrainians are going to look at that. How do

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Speaker 2: you think that the Iranians are going to look at that?

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Speaker 2: How do you think that Hamas is going to look

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Speaker 2: at that going forward? You know, if you do want

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Speaker 2: to seek an end to this conflict. So it's yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a huge deal in terms of his credibility when

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Speaker 2: as you put it, Emily, he has been put so

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Speaker 2: central to all of these key high stakes negotiations. Will

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Speaker 2: cover with Dave Smith tomorrow. There's supposed to be a

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Speaker 2: Trump putent phone call coming up in an attempt to

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Speaker 2: you know, to end that war. So in any case,

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Speaker 2: you know, not only did he just like get this

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Speaker 2: and the the possible trajectory here, one possible reading of

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Speaker 2: what the Trump administration has done here, And Michael Tracy

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Speaker 2: said the same thing on his Twitter.

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Speaker 4: Is basically like they got the last.

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Speaker 2: American and then they can just not really care anymore

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Speaker 2: about what BB does going forward. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: think that's I think that's a real possibility of what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing unfold, and especially when again everyone wants to go, well,

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Speaker 2: what does Trump really want?

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Speaker 4: What's he really thinking?

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Speaker 2: Like he's told us multiple times what he really wants

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Speaker 2: someone he's really thinking he wants this freedom zone, ethnic cleansing,

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Speaker 2: beach development plan. That's what he wants. Now will he

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Speaker 2: be able to achieve that? That's kind of the only question.

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Speaker 2: But to me, it's not really an open question anymore.

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Speaker 2: What Trump wants to see. He wants to see the

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Speaker 2: removal of all Palestinians from Gaza and some sort of

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Speaker 2: real estate development project that he can participate in going forward.

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Speaker 2: And you know, like I said, the only really outstanding

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Speaker 2: question in terms of him is how committed he is

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Speaker 2: to that and whether that's something that he can actually effectuate.

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Speaker 3: It just I mean, we talked about this when he

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Speaker 3: announced his first plans for Mara Gaza or whatever.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's being dubbed that.

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Speaker 3: It's a recipe for complete and total disaster. Like, on

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Speaker 3: top of the ethical considerations of what it would entail,

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Speaker 3: you're also just going to end up worsening the radical

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Speaker 3: rage at US imperialism, Western imperialism. For like the entire situation.

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Speaker 3: People have fought for decades literally for the land. And

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Speaker 3: we don't even have to get into this, but it's

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Speaker 3: so obviously just a recipe for even more and even

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Speaker 3: more explosive situation because people are not going to stop

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Speaker 3: fighting for the land and there. It doesn't just affect Palestine,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't just affect people in the area. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's other groups spread throughout the entire region are react

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Speaker 3: to what happens in God's or react to what I mean,

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Speaker 3: just to the infamous Osama bin Laden letter, what is

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Speaker 3: its site, Well, it talks about Palestine. It's not some

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Speaker 3: small issue for a lot of America's adversaries. So it's

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Speaker 3: just even on its own terms, a ridiculous idea that

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Speaker 3: they seem to actually genuinely be pushing closer and closer

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Speaker 3: to making the goal at the end stage of negotiations.

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Speaker 2: So increasingly inside of Israel there are protests that are

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Speaker 2: not just about retrieving the hostages securiancies fire to get

439
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,080
Speaker 2: the hostages back. They're starting to actually talk about Palestinians

440
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: and the suffering of Palestinians. Now I'm under no illusion,

441
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 2: based on the pulling that this is anything approaching majority

442
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,640
Speaker 2: coalition in Israel, but this is really the first time

443
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 2: we've seen any of that messaging at all, any concern

444
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: for you know, the lives of Palestinians being expressed in

445
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 2: the protest movements that have been ongoing. So we can

446
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: put these images up on the screen. You had a

447
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 2: group of I believe it's several hundred Israelis who marched

448
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: towards the border with Gasa. Some of them are holding

449
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: signs that said Palestinian lives matter, which again is just

450
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: not something that we've seen in Israel. I mean, it's

451
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 2: this sort of thing you could be you know, censored for,

452
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 2: arrested for. You can see one of those Palestinian Lives

453
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: Matter signs there, and you had even attempt to, you know,

454
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: directly approach that border fencing, which was rebuffed.

455
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,880
Speaker 4: By the Israeli police there.

456
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 2: But Emily, it is significant to me that even within Israel,

457
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 2: and we've seen this, I mean this, you know, Schild Benefrem,

458
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 2: who we've had on the show as a liberal Zionist

459
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: who completely changed his mind about He says, Okay, you

460
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 2: know what, the left is right, this is a genocide

461
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: and this is horrific. Now he's still committed to the

462
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,920
Speaker 2: state of Israel, but you know, I think he's one

463
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: example of how some liberal Israelis have woken up to

464
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 2: the horrors of the slaughter that is being committed in

465
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 2: their names. And so in any case, it's even though

466
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 2: it's a small number, I do think it's noteworthy that

467
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 2: there's a karen concern for Palestinians here that we at

468
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 2: least I haven't seen in any evident in any of

469
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: the protests up to this point.

470
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 3: It's I mean, I think it's very significant, and I

471
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: think some of it also has to do with the

472
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: you know the fact that there it's more obvious now

473
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 3: than ever before that this idea that the war and

474
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 3: all of the destruction and death that it's wrought is

475
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,120
Speaker 3: not going to result in the end of Hamas and right,

476
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 3: I think.

477
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 5: That just sort of makes everything.

478
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 3: It just it makes clear what all of this was

479
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 3: ultimately for and what it was actually going to end in.

480
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 3: So it's not a surprising development at all. But I

481
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 3: have to imagine that some of it it stems from that.

482
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I think you're right. Some of these things

483
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 2: just have become undeniable at this point. Undeniable at this point,

484
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 2: one of those protest testers actually spoke out about what

485
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 2: his goals were and why he was there.

486
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,959
Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

487
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 9: While our government, the Israeli government, launches another attack on Gaza,

488
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 9: we are marching hundreds of people choose the Palestinians from

489
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 9: the rocks to the Gaza voters with that demand to

490
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 9: stop this assault on Gaza, to stop the horrible killing

491
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 9: of innocent people, hell of children. And we are demand

492
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 9: from the Harbor government to sign a.

493
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 6: Deal to a six fire.

494
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 5: And I also a we are.

495
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 9: A human to say very very clearly that Israeli public

496
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 9: to not support this government. This sport cannot go on,

497
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,959
Speaker 9: This war has nothing with our safety. It's only about

498
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 9: annexation and building both settlements and transferring the Palestinians, and

499
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 9: we would not let it happen.

500
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 2: So he says what you were indicating that, like, at

501
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: this point, it's undeniable. This war is just about annexation

502
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: and settlements and transferring the Palestinians, as he says, effectively

503
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: ethnic cleansing. So that's where things stand this morning in

504
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 2: terms of Israel. We did want to share with you

505
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 2: some comments from Theo vonn He's been described as Trump's

506
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: favorite podcaster. It was certainly important as part of the

507
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: like bro podcast sphere that helped to get Trump elected.

508
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: And he took, you know, a good several minutes on

509
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: his show to effectively apologize for not saying more about

510
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 2: Gaza and to you know, express that he does believe

511
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: that this is a genocide that's unfolding before all of

512
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: our eyes. Let's go ahead and take a listen to

513
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 2: a little bit of that.

514
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 10: It feels to me, fact, it just it feels to

515
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 10: me like it's a genocide that's happening while we're alive

516
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 10: here in front of our in front of our lives.

517
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 10: And I don't sometimes I feel like I should say something.

518
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 10: I'm not a geologist or geographer or anything like that,

519
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 10: you know, so I don't know a lot of the

520
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 10: some of it. I do know, though, like I know

521
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 10: the basics of the issues over there. But for me,

522
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 10: it's just like how I feel like you see all

523
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 10: these photos of people, just children, women, people body parts,

524
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 10: just people like putting their kids back together, and I

525
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 10: just can't believe that we're watching that and that more

526
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 10: isn't said about it. And so I'm not saying anyone

527
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 10: else needs to say anything, but I think I'm just

528
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 10: that more isn't said about it by me. So I

529
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 10: just I want to be able to speak up about

530
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 10: that that I think we're watching, probably, like you know,

531
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 10: one of the sickest things that's ever happened. And I'm

532
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 10: sorry if I kind of haven't said about it. I've

533
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 10: tried to talk about and learn about it, but I

534
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 10: don't know. Maybe I just want to. I just wanted

535
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 10: to say something. I don't even know what to do,

536
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 10: you know. And it's crazy because our country is also

537
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 10: complicit in in it, you know, it's in it and

538
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 10: has been for a long time, and and it's just

539
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 10: kind of interesting because then you just realize, oh, well,

540
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 10: I'm just a Yeah, I'm a member of this country,

541
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 10: but I'm just what we want. Sometimes doesn't matter.

542
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: That last part is interesting. We'll come back to that.

543
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 2: And sometimes in this country what you want just it

544
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. Emily, what did you make at the significance

545
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 2: of theovon there?

546
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 3: Well, so he just had dinner with Ivanka and Jared

547
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: Levonka Trump.

548
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 5: And Jared Kushner.

549
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, literally last week, last week.

550
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: And Jared Kushner obviously the architect of the Abraham Accords.

551
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 5: So I actually find this to be very significant.

552
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: Joe Rogan has reacted to the war in similar ways.

553
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: And I think you know, I was, I was reading

554
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: yesterday and I know you're going to talk to Dave

555
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: Smith about this, But the New York Times had a

556
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 3: big dive into the Heritage Foundation's Project esther over the weekend, and.

557
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 2: Which shout out to drop site reported on this like yes,

558
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: what a year ago?

559
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yes, And you know it's it's basically like

560
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 3: they're the plan that they put in front of the

561
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 3: administration to go after students and to suppress speech. And

562
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 3: as I was reading this story, you know, I know

563
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,199
Speaker 3: a lot of people at the Heritage Foundation kind of

564
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 3: on both sides of the generational divide, like some of

565
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 3: the people who are more from the neo conservative version

566
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 3: of the Republican Party and people who are in the

567
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 3: like new.

568
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 5: Right Maga world.

569
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 3: And as I'm listening to the Avonne, thinking, hmm, this

570
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 3: is going to be a real problem for the old

571
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: neo conservative Republicans going forward, because as as much as

572
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: it looks like whit Cough is, you know, pulling a

573
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: fast one and not doing what he said to put

574
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: pressure on his reel to get an into the conflict,

575
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: increasingly the younger, younger voters in the Republican Party, but

576
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: even younger staff is just not on board with this anymore.

577
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 3: And they're all listening to people like Theovonne, Joe Rogan.

578
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 3: They just have a completely different worldview when it comes

579
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: to this particular issue. So as I was watching it,

580
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: that's what was going through my head that like, this

581
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 3: is going to this does resonate, this does move young

582
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: people on the right, and it's that that you know,

583
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 3: is not going to be easily blended with the old

584
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 3: neoconservative approach to this for much longer.

585
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I appreciate him saying this to his audience.

586
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: I want to know if he's also saying it to

587
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 2: Vana Vanca when he's having dinner with them in a

588
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: very friendly way, like if you're saying this is a genocide,

589
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: and then you're I mean, he also just went we

590
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: can put this up on this green E ten. He

591
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: was in Cutter with Trump there the Ravon rips on drugs, disabilities,

592
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: and homosexuality before Trump speaks at US Space in Kutcher. So,

593
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 2: I mean, this is someone who has public power because

594
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: he's very influential with a large group of young men,

595
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: and so him using his voice on his platform matters

596
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: a lot there. But he also has private power because

597
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 2: Trump does attribute, you know, some of his electoral victory

598
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: to people like Theoon, and he's routinely described as Trump's

599
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: favorite podcast.

600
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: Baron probably listens to Theovonna if reports are correct.

601
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

602
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 2: No, that was the reporting that Baron was instrumental in

603
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: putting them together. So he also has private power. And

604
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 2: I think that's the real question is Okay, if you

605
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: see this is a genocide, which I agree with and

606
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: at this point many other people do as well, not

607
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: to mention international organizations as well, like, okay, are you

608
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: using the inside track that you have to exert pressure

609
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: internally as well, so that that would be my question.

610
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 4: But I do think we can go ahead.

611
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: Let's skip ahead to a twelve to your point about

612
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: the way that public opinion has shifted, because you know,

613
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 2: it's this kind of dichotomy where at the same time

614
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 2: that Israel is at it's almost like most powerful all

615
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: the countries that's bombing in territory that it's annexing and

616
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 2: you know, on the verge of effectively a final solution

617
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: in Gaza. The backing in the US has taken a

618
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: dramatic hit. I mean not among elite elected politicians so much, right,

619
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: but among the people. Just look at these numbers, the

620
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: way that negative views of Israel have risen in the US. So,

621
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: first of all, for maybe the first time ever, majority

622
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 2: of US adults majority have a negative view of the

623
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: state of Israel.

624
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 3: So they were asked yes, so this is a question

625
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 3: of they were asked if they have an unfavorable view

626
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 3: of Israel.

627
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 5: Straight up. That goes from forty two percent.

628
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty two to fifty three percent in twenty

629
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: twenty five.

630
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, And Republicans are still the group

631
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: that it has the largest, you know, favorable proportion. But

632
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: look at that generational divide that Emily was pointing to.

633
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 2: So now you have a majority of Republicans between eighteen

634
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: and forty nine, So not even that particle early young

635
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: fifty percent now say they have an unfavorable view. Man,

636
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: those boomer Republicans, though they love them some Israel, they

637
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 2: have barely budged.

638
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: Look at those, I mean, the number the generational divide

639
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: is more than so twenty three. Only twenty three percent

640
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 3: of fifty plus Republicans have an unfavorable view of Israel.

641
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: And it's as Crystal said, fifty percent of ages eighteen

642
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 3: to forty nine. I bet if you just did eighteen

643
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: to twenty four, that number would be even higher.

644
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 4: I have no doubt, no doubt about that.

645
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: And these are all people in one party. And granted

646
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: it's not what people go to the polls and vote

647
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: based on, but it does create a permission structure for

648
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: politicians to act in various ways. So when you look

649
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: at those numbers, at some point that has to change

650
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: the way Republican politicians approach the issue.

651
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 5: You would think.

652
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: But that's what theovonn gets to at the end of

653
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: his at the end of his moment, therey right.

654
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 5: So it feels like there's nothing.

655
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 2: It feels like what we want doesn't really matter. And

656
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 2: if you look at the Democratic numbers there, you know,

657
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: you see a huge shift where now you've got sixty

658
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 2: nine percent of Democrats and lean Dems overall with an

659
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: unfavorable view and a much smaller generational divide, So seventy

660
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: one percent of eighteen to forty nine year old, sixty

661
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: six percent of fifty plus and those fifty plus in

662
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party, that is the group that has moved

663
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: the most, because it used to be just if you're

664
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 2: of an older generation like Joe Biden, you support Israel

665
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: and you really don't think too much about it, and

666
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 2: that has shifted dramatically. And yeah, I mean, I actually

667
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: do think that this issue is important electorally. I think

668
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: it's going to be quite significant in the Democratic primary

669
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight. I think it will be a

670
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: litmus test in the Democratic primary in twenty twenty eight.

671
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 2: And I also think, you know, I mean, this is

672
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 2: it speaks to the hypocrisies of America first, when you're

673
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: claiming like, Okay, we're just going to focus on US interests,

674
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: and yet you're still funding this genocide with you know,

675
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 2: with our tax dollars, shipping all this money and weapons

676
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: and diplomatic support to Israel to do whatever the hell

677
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: Israel wants to do. So there's a there is an

678
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: electoral hypocrisy there that also, I think, you know, it's

679
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: I don't think it will be insignificant, not that it's

680
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 2: going to be everybody's number one issue, but when we

681
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: talk to those AOC Trump voters, so a lot of

682
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: them actually did bring up Ukraine and Israel, and you

683
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: know a sense of dissatisfaction with Biden Harris on those

684
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: issues in particular.

685
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 4: So I don't want to downplay it either.

686
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: Well, and for a lot of working class voters, you

687
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: look at that actually as a material kitchen table concern

688
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: for yourself because it makes you angry that you're struggling

689
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 3: in no small part in some cases because of the

690
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: way the government has structured the economy, because of the

691
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: way the government spends its money, and you see all

692
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 3: of this funding going to foreign conflicts in many cases

693
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 3: no end in sight.

694
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: And politicians who seem to care more about a foreign

695
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 2: country than they do this one.

696
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 5: One hundred percent.

697
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean I think this is also and

698
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: this is something that I don't think those older conservative

699
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: actually I should say Republicans and Democrats have grappled with

700
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: yet is the post imperial era of America's like approach

701
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 3: to the Middle East.

702
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 5: So for generations that grew up.

703
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 3: Amidst the failures in Iraq and Afghanistan, that looking at

704
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: Israel post that post October seventh, I think it's it's

705
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: actually just a.

706
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 5: Very different dynamic.

707
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: And you know, we could go back and have conversations

708
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: about historical like historical Israel and you know, the last

709
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 3: one hundred years of history in Israel, if not longer.

710
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,280
Speaker 3: But uh, there's there's definitely this is a new chapter

711
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 3: in American relationship, like post October seventh is a new

712
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: chapter in a relationship with Israel. And in a sense,

713
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people it's it's come

714
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 3: across as much more egregious as a different version or

715
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 3: a changed version I shouldn't say different, but a changed

716
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: version of Israel that's engaging in negotiations with the US

717
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 3: and that is having these back and forth with US power.

718
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: So I mean, I think that's one thing that just

719
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: has not been understood very well, is this is Israel

720
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 3: is in a different position, yeah these days.

721
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 2: Well And one of the most going back to Theovonn's comments,

722
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 2: one of the most potent arguments that pro Israel people

723
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: have made in the past is well, you don't understand.

724
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: The history is too complicated, so just stay out of it.

725
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 4: Just let us worry about it. You don't worry about it,

726
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 4: just trust us that you're on the right side. It's

727
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 4: all good.

728
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 3: It's good versus bad, right, Like, it's always this very

729
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: maniqueen dark and light, good and bad.

730
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 5: And what they don't.

731
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,720
Speaker 3: Understand is is now with social media, you can see everything, right.

732
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: And so I think that that like like that worked

733
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: really well on liberals for a long time of like, well,

734
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 2: the history is just.

735
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 4: Really complicated, you don't understand.

736
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 2: And now because those images are so undeniable, it has

737
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: sort of overcome this unwillingness to engage with where it's like, Okay,

738
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 2: but maybe I don't need to know one hundred.

739
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 4: Years of history.

740
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 2: Maybe I can have my own world judgment about what's

741
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: being done right now today in the present with my

742
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: tax dollars and as the world watches.

743
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 3: Ryan and I fell into a long conversation on an

744
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 3: episode a few months ago about how what happened to

745
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 3: shrin Abu Akla was a sort of changing moment for me,

746
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: and part of that was because you could piece together

747
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 3: so many different social media, so much different evidence from

748
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: social media, and all these different angles of video, all

749
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: of these different movements were captured on iPhone cameras or

750
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 3: smartphone cameras, and when you're able to see so much

751
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: different pieces of the puzzle, you can put it together

752
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 3: in ways that gives the propaganda a lot less power.

753
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right, and I think also coming

754
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: at a time when trust in mainstream media has never

755
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: been lower, their ability to manufacture consent is vastly diminished,

756
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 2: certainly with in the Republican Party, but increasingly within the

757
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: Democratic Party as well. There was one more thing we

758
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 2: wanted to get to you here, which again I think

759
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: is kind of a sign of the times, which is

760
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders on the most mainstream shows you could get

761
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: on with Stephen Colbert Late Night and calling out directly

762
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: the influence of APAK, specifically in politics, as the reason

763
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 2: why Democrats are unable to break with the consensus with

764
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: regard to Israel. Let's go ahead and take a listen

765
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: to what Bernie had to say.

766
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 11: But on the Democratic side, and this is what we've

767
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 11: got to deal with. I happen to believe that what

768
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 11: is going on in Gaza right now is horrific. That

769
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 11: we are seeing children right now as we speak, starving

770
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 11: to death, massive malnutrition.

771
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 7: Your fellow Vermonter Ben of Ben and Jerry's was actually

772
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 7: at one of the hearings I believe you were at

773
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 7: yesterday and was dragged out when he was making that protest.

774
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 11: But why do you think more Democrats are not speaking

775
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 11: up on the issue.

776
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 7: Money?

777
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 11: Yeah, of course, if you speak up on that issue,

778
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 11: you'll have super packs, like a pack going after you

779
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 11: in the same way Elon Musk goes after Republicans.

780
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: There you go calling out APAC directly to applause.

781
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 10: On.

782
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: I still want to call it the Colbert rapport. Old

783
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: I am, but I wish.

784
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 5: I mean, that would be amazing, that.

785
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 4: Was the peak he was at his height of his powers.

786
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 3: Then, I mean absolutely it will never be anything like

787
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 3: the Colbert rapport again.

788
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it's a good point.

789
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: It's just we we see all kinds of anecdotal evidence

790
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 3: and then the polling numbers bears it out that just

791
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: the US public has shifted on this, and it's I

792
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: think part of it is fatigue and disillusionment with American

793
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 3: Empire post Iraq and Afghanistan, and a sort of a

794
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: sense of cynicism about what's possible, what the American Empire

795
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: can accomplish and bringing peace to the Middle East as

796
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 3: opposed to focusing back a And I'm not going to

797
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: open up the can of worms that is that debate

798
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 3: right now, but I think that is the sense that

799
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 3: so many people have on top of what they've seen

800
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 3: over the course of the last several years, and in

801
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: this case, again with seemingly no end in sight. I mean,

802
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 3: every time it feels like there's a light at the

803
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: end of the tunnel, it goes away, it fades.

804
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 5: So, yeah, people are just sick of it.

805
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and turn to this huge

806
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: domestic news. We can put this up on the screen. So,

807
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: Joe Biden has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of

808
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: prostate cancer. I'll read you this last week present. Joe

809
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: Biden was seen for a new finding of a prostate nodule.

810
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,360
Speaker 2: After experiencing increasing urinary symptoms. On Friday, he was diagnosed

811
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: with prostate cancer characterized by a gleasan score of nine

812
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: grade group five with metastasis to the bone. While this

813
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,479
Speaker 2: represents a more aggressive form of the disease, the cancer

814
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: appears to be hormone sensitive, which allows for effective management.

815
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: The president and his family are reviewing treatment options with

816
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 2: his physicians. Can put the next piece up on the screen.

817
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: This is from Ken Klippenstein puld some research about the

818
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: five year survival rate for this form of metastasized prostate

819
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 2: cancer which has metastasized to the bone. He says the

820
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 2: study found a five year survival rate of thirty two percent.

821
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: Joe Biden also, you know, relatively elderly at this point

822
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: as well, which doesn't help for the survival rate chances.

823
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 2: And you know, this comes emily, of course, at a

824
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 2: time when there has been a lot of focus on

825
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 2: who knew what and when with regard to Joe Biden's

826
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: mental decline over the course of his presidency and even

827
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 2: potentially before his presidency, something we've certainly been talking about

828
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: since before his presidency. So a lot of questions raised

829
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 2: about the timing of this announcement given the advanced state

830
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 2: of the cancer. So to address all of these things

831
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 2: and tell us what he saw when he was deep

832
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 2: inside of Biden world, We're going to be joined by

833
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: Michael Erosa. He is the former press secretary to doctor

834
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 2: Jill Biden and he's been speaking out about some of

835
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: what he saw while he was on the inside. Joining

836
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 2: us now in studio is Michael Erosa, form press secretary

837
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: for doctor Jill Biden. Good to see Michael.

838
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 12: Good to see you too, Thanks for having me here.

839
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So before we jump into all of this,

840
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 2: including cancer diagnosis and you know, the mental decline and

841
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 2: what people knew at the time, just lay out for

842
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 2: our audience, like what was your role? How close were

843
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: you with the Bidens? How often did you see the

844
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: former president? Those sorts of things that we sort of

845
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: have a baseline.

846
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 12: Sure, so you know I was not.

847
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 13: I was actually considered more of an outsider, and the

848
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 13: Bidens did not take many outsiders into their at least

849
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 13: into their bubble, the traveling bubble on the twenty twenty campaign.

850
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 13: So I started with them as there as doctor Biden's

851
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 13: traveling press secretary starting in twenty nineteen, So I traveled

852
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 13: everywhere with her throughout the Democratic primary, stayed with her

853
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 13: through the general election in the same position, and then

854
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 13: went to the White House as her chief spokesperson, special

855
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 13: assistant to President Biden and also primary traveling spokesperson for

856
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 13: the first Lady. So we traveled to about eighteen countries,

857
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,720
Speaker 13: thirty eight states, and seventy five cities in that first

858
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 13: you know, two years of the White House when I

859
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 13: was there, spent a lot of because our you know,

860
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 13: what they call the traveling bubble was very small and.

861
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: Uh and that's COVID era too, so particularly COVID area.

862
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 12: Yes, it was like that.

863
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 13: Prior to COVID there was his traveling bubble, our traveling bubble,

864
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 13: and then we all kind of and during COVID we

865
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 13: would end up staying close physically together, living together in

866
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 13: Wilmington because we tried to keep the Bidens around the

867
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 13: same people consistently.

868
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 12: And a smaller group as well.

869
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 13: But that smaller group was really the group that spent

870
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 13: the most time with both Bidens is whether it was

871
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 13: in Wilmington, Rehoboth, or Camp David.

872
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 12: They left the White House most weeks.

873
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 3: So what was your reaction to the news yesterday of

874
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 3: Joe Biden's cancer is.

875
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 13: You know, human, sad, heartbreaking, trying to learn more about

876
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 13: how bad it is, and you know how long the

877
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 13: treatments can get him.

878
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 12: Obviously he's eighty two.

879
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 13: So things when you're diagnosed, I guess or I'm not

880
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 13: a doctor, but I imagine that when you get diagnosed

881
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 13: with a cancer like that that metastasizes to bones, that

882
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 13: it's not good.

883
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 12: But just praying. I think I've been thinking a lot

884
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 12: about doctor Biden.

885
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 13: And I saw the picture that they posted this morning

886
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 13: with Willow, their cat, who I have a special relationship

887
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 13: with because I watched her for the first year of

888
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 13: the White House.

889
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 12: So it made me. It choked me up a little

890
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 12: bit to see the three of them.

891
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 13: But yeah, I'm just thinking a lot about them today.

892
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 2: So this has raised a lot of questions for people

893
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: about you know, this comes in the context of questions

894
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: about the cover up of his decline. This is unfortunately

895
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 2: very aggressive and advanced stage of disease apparently, and so

896
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: we can put b three up on the screen. You know,

897
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 2: it's a lot of people on the right who were

898
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: saying Is this really when they got the diagnosis or

899
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: is this actually time to come out now? But this

900
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 2: is someone with doctor from Yale.

901
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 5: Yale Professional was.

902
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: Also raising questions. It's inconceivable that this was not being

903
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 2: followed before he left the presidency. Glease in grade nine

904
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 2: would have had an elevated PSA level. That's like something

905
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: that would show up in a blood test. I'm understanding

906
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: for some time before this diagnosis. He must have had

907
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 2: a PSA test numerous times before.

908
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:45,959
Speaker 4: This is odd.

909
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: I wish him well and I hope he has an

910
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 2: opportunity for maximizing his quality of life.

911
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 4: You know, given what you.

912
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 2: Saw of the way that the bidens operated, can you

913
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 2: assure people that this diagnosis was just made now, that

914
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 2: there wasn't some longer term cover up of an earlier

915
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: cancer diagnosis.

916
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 13: No, I can't assure you that I saw Zeke Emmanuel

917
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 13: on Morning Joe for the first twenty minutes of Morning

918
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 13: Joe basically say the same exact thing. University a pen doctor.

919
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 13: I think I believe he's an oncologist. I have to

920
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 13: go back and check. I thought he was. I now again,

921
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 13: I'm just repeating what I what I observed and heard

922
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 13: this morning, which is that it would be very unusual

923
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 13: according to Zeke Emmanuel who was on this morning, that

924
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 13: they that Gleason level nine would not have been found

925
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 13: much earlier. He said that generally, you know, he may

926
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 13: he may have not have had these PSA tests after

927
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 13: seventy years old. However, the three other presidents, I believe

928
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 13: it was Obama, Bush and Trump who did have these

929
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 13: PSA tests when they were in the White House, according

930
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 13: to their medical results, but Biden did not. So look,

931
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 13: there's questions, and I understand why there's questions, and I

932
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,279
Speaker 13: think it was BBC journalist Katy k who was on

933
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 13: today who's also said.

934
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 12: On this topic.

935
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 13: You know, given the conversation we are having about trust

936
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 13: right now, this does raise questions and they're saying that I.

937
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 12: Am just observing and listening and hearing, but it's.

938
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 2: Given your experience with them and the way that they operated,

939
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: you're effectively saying you wouldn't put it past them to

940
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: have hit a cancer diagnosis for some amount of time.

941
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 13: I've always wanted to always give them the benefit of

942
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 13: the doubt, and my experience when I was there was

943
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 13: it was hard. It was very hard. Their natural instincts.

944
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 13: And I'm not talking about Joe and Joe Biden, Okay,

945
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 13: I want to be clear. I'm talking about the people

946
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:57,280
Speaker 13: that they listened to, the people in that in our circle,

947
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 13: in the insular.

948
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 4: Bubble, donaldin Forshetty, not sister.

949
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 13: More about the people who were safeguarding their privacy constantly,

950
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 13: which sometimes took the sort of north star to political.

951
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 12: Uh decisions.

952
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 3: So it sounds like there's there's an inner circle which

953
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,720
Speaker 3: you were a part of, and then an inner circle

954
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: within that inner circle. And I think that's something that

955
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 3: Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson are reporting in Original Sin

956
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 3: is that? But I also wondered to what extent that's

957
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 3: a kind of cope And I want to get your

958
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: thoughts on that that it gives some people the ability

959
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: to sort of say, well, we were you know, there

960
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 3: was this this privacy circle that was being like they

961
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 3: were circling the wagons around what may have actually been happening.

962
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 5: What's your take on that?

963
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: I mean, was it is it real that maybe it

964
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 3: was Joe Biden, Joe Biden and Hunter Biden Valorie, like,

965
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 3: what is that? Who would have been keeping it so

966
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 3: that even people like yourself. Weren't thinking, oh my gosh,

967
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: this is out of control, unless you were thinking that.

968
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 12: It's hard to say.

969
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 13: It's all it's a matter of timing, Like what period

970
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 13: are you particularly referring to, like at the end, because

971
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 13: that's what the.

972
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: Book suggests that it happens after twenty twenty two printer stuff.

973
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 12: I left right after twenty twenty two?

974
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 5: So did you see it?

975
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,320
Speaker 13: So that I've always been consistent by the way, I

976
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 13: should preface this by saying, no, he never ever gave

977
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 13: me a moment's pause.

978
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:25,920
Speaker 12: I was.

979
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 13: I went on Fox News Jesse Waters at the night

980
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 13: of the debate to say, look, he's going to run

981
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 13: circles around anybody on his record on policy, on the

982
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 13: other guy's record. My concern was the performative aspect of

983
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 13: debating and showmanship. Did he prepare with a studio light?

984
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 13: Did he prepare in a Was he prepared for the

985
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 13: unexpected against Donald Trump? That's why it's not like debating

986
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 13: a different or a traditional kind of Republican So was

987
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:00,080
Speaker 13: he prepared for that kind of thing? And remember we

988
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 13: we were always used to him showing up on game day,

989
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 13: especially like we beat Trump in the last two debates, he

990
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 13: showed up at the State of the Union, and if

991
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 13: you think about it from that inner circle's mind, with

992
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 13: everything going back to nineteen eighty seven, which it was

993
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 13: the most and first scarring experience in politics that they

994
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 13: had Joe Biden to them, and the way they think

995
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 13: and the way they make decisions is that Joe Biden

996
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 13: is underestimated. Joe Biden always defies gravity in the face

997
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 13: of people who doubt them, So you have to keep

998
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 13: that in mind. That's how they make very big decisions.

999
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 2: One of the big pieces of information we just got

1000
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 2: is the her audio was just released, and we've had

1001
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: a couple of moments here. The first one is with

1002
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 2: regard to the central question with regard to that was

1003
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 2: these classified documents, and he appears sort of confused about

1004
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: you know exactly what they were, why there were et cetera.

1005
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

1006
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 12: You were aware that you had kept it after your

1007
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 12: Jarman vice president?

1008
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 14: Did you know that you had it? I don't know

1009
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 14: that I knew, wouldn't wouldn't some something I wants started

1010
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 14: to think about.

1011
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 12: The reason I asked, is it's been written it.

1012
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 15: Out about Woodward wrote about it.

1013
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 16: In one of his books, Jewels we Cover wrote about

1014
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 16: it and his biograp.

1015
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 15: So that's that's the reason I asked if it was

1016
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 15: something that he wanted to.

1017
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 12: Hang on to because he was going to be reporting

1018
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 12: or his.

1019
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 14: Own is gonna be showing reporting. But I wanted to

1020
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 14: hang I guess I wanted to hang on just proposterity setting.

1021
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 14: I mean, this was my position on Afghanistan.

1022
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 15: His president.

1023
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 17: I'm sorry, I mean that's that's what I wanted to do.

1024
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 14: I don't know what didn't do with Afghanistan.

1025
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 17: Okay, that way, and Mark just really quickly, I promise

1026
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 17: will be believe. I just really would like to avoid

1027
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 17: the purpose of the clean record getting into specultive areas.

1028
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 17: When the President responded and said, I don't recall intending

1029
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 17: to keep this memo, you then said, well, you know,

1030
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 17: might two have thought it was important to keeping whatever,

1031
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 17: And he said, well, I guess I could have his recollection.

1032
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 18: As I understand it is, he does not recall specifically

1033
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 18: intending to keep this memo after he left the vice presidency,

1034
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 18: and I want that to be I want these questions

1035
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 18: to be as clearly answered and recorded on the transfert

1036
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 18: as possible.

1037
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 12: I bet we should take a bradiance.

1038
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: And probably even more significant was the audio that was

1039
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: released regarding his confusion of when his son bo passed

1040
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 2: away and also when he was in the vice presidency

1041
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: and being confused about the years when he was serving

1042
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 2: in which office.

1043
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 4: Let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

1044
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:53,480
Speaker 14: I don't know. This is what twenty seventeen eighteen. Men,

1045
00:52:53,680 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 14: here is Remember in this time frame, my son is

1046
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 14: either been deployed or is dying. When boone dye got

1047
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 14: a mazed twenty eighteen, when twenty fifteen and died fifteen

1048
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 14: he was twenty fifteen or eat that much of the months.

1049
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 5: Or what he goes.

1050
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's right.

1051
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 14: And what's happened in the meantime is that.

1052
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: Has and.

1053
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,240
Speaker 14: SHOUMP gets elected in November of twenty seventeen.

1054
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 8: By sixty sixteen, twenty sixteen, all right, so.

1055
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 5: Why have twenty seventeen that's when you left office, and so.

1056
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 14: No, I let me just keep going to get it done.

1057
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 4: Was this year experience of president by at this time and.

1058
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 5: That's twenty twenty three.

1059
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, and I was not I wasn't there then. But

1060
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 13: part of that a couple of things, just observing and listening,

1061
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 13: hearing how he's responding to answers that are put to

1062
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 13: him or questions that are put to him in a

1063
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 13: context that is in private. Slowly, Yes, oftentimes that that

1064
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 13: could be representative that was accurate of of what I saw,

1065
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,880
Speaker 13: that it was slowly processing, or that he was You

1066
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,840
Speaker 13: could ask him a question, he'd think about it for

1067
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 13: a little bit and then answer. But I don't know

1068
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 13: what if that is a reflective of decline or not,

1069
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 13: because I only knew him as an older man, right.

1070
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 13: I met him in nineteen and so that was consistent

1071
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 13: for from what I knew. So it's hard for me

1072
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 13: to say that was a like was he messing updates? Sure,

1073
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 13: yeah he was. But I don't know how much that

1074
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 13: is met mental decline an age.

1075
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 12: I just don't know.

1076
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 3: What's interesting from the Tapper Thompson book excerpts is that

1077
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: it seems from maybe the donor perspective and the insider perspective,

1078
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: it became sort of the scuttle butt that people were

1079
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 3: a bit concerned after what twenty twenty two is roughly

1080
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 3: were they draw on is that was that your experience

1081
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 3: that people started to privately talk about it.

1082
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:25,279
Speaker 13: Oh yes, yes, that was in June of twenty twenty two.

1083
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 13: We started to do some fundraising prospecting, start to sort

1084
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,960
Speaker 13: of build out what would be the sort of mechanism

1085
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 13: or operation for a potential superpack for the reelect. And

1086
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 13: when we were going around and meeting with donors around

1087
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 13: the country, I mean there were donors who came up

1088
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 13: to the First Lady and thanked her for all of

1089
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 13: the saving democracy restoring institutions. But part of his legacy

1090
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 13: can also be passing the torch and turning it over

1091
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 13: to an open democratic process. That can be part of

1092
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 13: his democracy legacy. So no, they were hearing from people

1093
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 13: who were and that particular donor, the one that I recall,

1094
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:15,320
Speaker 13: specifically asked her not to do this, that her family

1095
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 13: has sacrificed enough, please don't do this.

1096
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:17,919
Speaker 16: Wow.

1097
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 13: And it was in a very large room with a

1098
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 13: lot of people. It was not open to the press,

1099
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 13: but there was a senior age at the First Lady

1100
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 13: who then went back and said, would that answer be

1101
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 13: different if you knew he was running against Trump? Because

1102
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 13: I think the mindset in Biden world was that Biden

1103
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 13: can do this if it's going to be Trump, He's

1104
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 13: the only one that beats Trump. That was the argument

1105
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 13: that he was the only one who had beaten Trump,

1106
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 13: and so that Donor immediately said, of course not. I

1107
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 13: don't want either of them to be seventy eight or

1108
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,560
Speaker 13: older and running for president. He said, I don't want

1109
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,720
Speaker 13: my doctor, my surgeon, or my pilot to be eighty

1110
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 13: two either. So no, they were hearing this, But all

1111
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 13: of that, if you understand the bidens and their mindset again,

1112
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 13: if you go back to like and understand what happened

1113
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 13: in eighty seven when they were pushed out very publicly

1114
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 13: and in a humiliating way, it was not that they

1115
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 13: were only going to double down. Ever, if they read

1116
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 13: op eds or if they saw people on the news

1117
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 13: or people like that who who were recommending that he

1118
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 13: shouldn't encant because in our in their experience and what

1119
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,840
Speaker 13: we experienced during the primary and the first couple of

1120
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 13: years of the White House, it was basically, Joe has

1121
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 13: defied gravity, Joe always beats expectations, and there's always the

1122
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 13: doubting class.

1123
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: How do you reconcile that the public was able to

1124
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 2: have a better understanding of where he was in his

1125
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: decline than someone who was on the inside lights such

1126
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: as yourself.

1127
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 13: Well, I mean even when I on the outside was

1128
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 13: always you know, I always knew they were running for reelection.

1129
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 13: That was always he's the plan since the transition.

1130
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: So the talk about like building a bridge to the

1131
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 2: next generation, I mean he did sort of, I mean

1132
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 2: he did all but say it was going to be

1133
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: one term.

1134
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 13: Yeah, well yeah, and that, and he implied that, you know,

1135
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 13: there he was a bridge to the next generation, right right.

1136
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 12: He didn't say when that bridge would be.

1137
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 13: It was when when he was finished. And no, there

1138
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 13: I was never under it was.

1139
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 12: Let's just put this way.

1140
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 13: It was made very clear to me when I raised

1141
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 13: the issue behind close doors, you know, something like I think,

1142
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 13: I said, oh, well, we're not actually running for reelection,

1143
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 13: so what does it matter, and somebody you know, immediately,

1144
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 13: you know, you know, drop the hammer on me and said,

1145
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 13: why wouldn't he be running? Of course, we're running for reelection.

1146
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 13: This is a after this is a second term thing

1147
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 13: we're going to do. This isn't after the re elect.

1148
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 13: The culture and the tone was always so he was

1149
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 13: running for reelection, and our response publicly was nobody runs

1150
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 13: for four terms or for for four years. It's always

1151
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 13: run for president for eight years.

1152
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,880
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of speculation, and especially people on

1153
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 3: the right look at doctor Joe Biden, and I'm sure

1154
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 3: you've heard this and say it's cruel. But she was,

1155
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 3: she was propping up her husband, and well there was

1156
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 3: a briefing late in his term that I think she

1157
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 3: took the helm of and people were saying that it

1158
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 3: was some type of you know, big power grab.

1159
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 12: We have to separate like reality from from rhetoric. What

1160
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 12: was she propping him up?

1161
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 13: No, but was she certainly undeterred and driven like more

1162
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 13: like as driven to defy the doubters. Of course she

1163
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 13: was because she believed in him. But she had her

1164
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 13: own life, like she had her own career. If she

1165
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,480
Speaker 13: continued her own career, she can't stand politics. If if

1166
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 13: he did not want to be president again or to

1167
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 13: continue being president, she'd be the first person in her

1168
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 13: convertible headed to the beach and would never have a

1169
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,919
Speaker 13: reason to come back to Washington because she didn't really

1170
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 13: use her platform. And you know, we used to fight

1171
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 13: about this all the time, but like she wasn't she

1172
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 13: didn't have her own agenda there. She didn't use her

1173
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 13: office to sort of pursue a policy agenda or whip

1174
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 13: votes the way many First Ladies have done for for

1175
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 13: their initiatives.

1176
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 12: She did not do that. She didn't want to do that.

1177
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,160
Speaker 13: Our office was essentially a continued version of the campaign.

1178
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 13: It was a permanent campaign surrogate operation, which means that

1179
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 13: we were integrated with the West Wing. As for better

1180
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 13: or for worse, we were very integrated into the West Wing,

1181
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 13: and she always had a seat at the table because

1182
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 13: our representatives were there, but because we considered ourselves and

1183
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 13: they considered us a partner in going out and selling

1184
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 13: to the American people his vision, his goals, his agenda,

1185
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 13: the American Rescue Plan, the infrastructure, the.

1186
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,600
Speaker 12: Sorry the chip sack.

1187
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 13: Well, but we made We were kind of leading the

1188
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 13: effort for vaccinations all over the country at that time

1189
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 13: and for the first year generally. So I considered it

1190
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 13: what you would call sort of an event driven operation

1191
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 13: that was very coordinated and very integrated into the West Wing.

1192
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 2: Let me get your response to Vader Rourke had some

1193
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,080
Speaker 2: very strong comments with the pod save guys recently that

1194
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 2: I want to get your reaction to. Let's go ahead

1195
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 2: and take a listen as be seven guys let's go

1196
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 2: ahead and take a listen.

1197
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,919
Speaker 7: Just to be clear, Biden should not have run again,

1198
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 7: And to be even more clear, he failed this country

1199
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 7: in the most important job that he had. In fact,

1200
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 7: the entire rationale for his presidency the first time, and

1201
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 7: the rationale he tried to sell us on for his

1202
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,520
Speaker 7: attempt to run for reelection. Only I can stop Donald Trump,

1203
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 7: and he failed to do that. And it's not just

1204
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 7: you and me, but our kids and grandkids and the

1205
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 7: generations that follow that might have to pay the price

1206
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 7: for this. We might very well lose the greatest country

1207
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 7: that this world has ever known, and it might be

1208
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 7: in part because of the decision that Biden and those

1209
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 7: around him made to run for re election instead of

1210
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 7: having an open primary where the greatest talent that the

1211
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 7: Democratic Party can muster could be on that stage, to

1212
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 7: have a competition of ideas and track record and vision.

1213
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 7: I think that credibility problem is going to persist up

1214
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 7: until when Democrats say we fucked up and we made

1215
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 7: a terrible mistake.

1216
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 2: So he says he failed this country. I think the

1217
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 2: current president is a fascist. I think you'll leave Emily

1218
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 2: out of this, but I suspect that you agree with

1219
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: that assessment.

1220
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 4: I mean, do you think that don't like ahead? Do

1221
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 4: you think Beto's right?

1222
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 13: Yeah, I don't disagree with anything Beto said that. And look,

1223
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 13: I said to the New York Times Peter Baker in

1224
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 13: an article in February twenty twenty four when Biden was

1225
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,480
Speaker 13: still in that this is a gamble that they are

1226
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 13: taking because they that only they can do this, and

1227
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 13: that his legacy and this was more of an article

1228
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 13: about I think his legacy or was you know the

1229
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 13: pressures that they were facing. And yeah, damn right, there's

1230
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:14,000
Speaker 13: pressure because his legacy. And I hope I assumed they

1231
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 13: knew this in February of twenty twenty four when I

1232
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,280
Speaker 13: gave this quote, but that his legacy was going to

1233
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 13: be defined on whether he wins or loses to Donald Trump,

1234
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,479
Speaker 13: and that running was taking a gamble on that entire

1235
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 13: legacy of fifty years in public life was going to

1236
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 13: be overshadowed. And I think you're seeing that we're not

1237
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,720
Speaker 13: talking about Joe Biden and the Chips Act, or or

1238
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 13: the American Rescue Plan, or bringing this country back from

1239
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:43,200
Speaker 13: the brank, or the Violence Against Women Act. That he

1240
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 13: was way ahead of his time on we're not talking

1241
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 13: about those things. And so for the short term, it's

1242
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 13: going to be very unpleasant for the family to sort

1243
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 13: of reconcile the legacy that historians and the news media

1244
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:05,440
Speaker 13: or and Democrats are going to be writing in the

1245
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,360
Speaker 13: short term because of the decisions that they made.

1246
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 2: Do you have any personal regrets about how you handled

1247
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 2: or you know he didn't speak up?

1248
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 13: No, because I was speaking up in after I left,

1249
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 13: at least throughout twenty twenty three year, I wrote, and

1250
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 13: the way I spoke up, and the way I spoke

1251
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 13: up was he needs to be his own advocate. When

1252
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 13: I saw the disengagement, when I saw that they were

1253
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 13: giving up opportunities like Kristen Welker's for Sunday Show Meet

1254
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 13: the Press, I tweeted, all right, we can't if we're.

1255
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 12: Going to lose the news cycle.

1256
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 13: We can't complain that they cover Trump for the entire

1257
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 13: weekend and all the news he makes because we are

1258
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 13: turning it down or the Super Bowl interview, or not

1259
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 13: doing press conferences and press avails.

1260
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 4: But did you think that was because he couldn't do it,

1261
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 4: because he wasn't up to it. I didn't know, and

1262
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 4: I thought it was just about.

1263
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 13: Actually, I thought it was a bad strategy. I didn't know,

1264
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 13: and I didn't care, because I knew for three years

1265
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 13: by that point we were running no matter what.

1266
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 12: And in history, as.

1267
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,439
Speaker 13: A student of history, I know, like okay, I even

1268
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 13: said out loud that it was a mistake to mess

1269
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 13: around with the primary calendar because it looks like we're scared.

1270
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 13: It looks like we have something to hind and we

1271
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 13: don't need to mess with the primary calendar. It does

1272
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 13: him a disservice, all of these things.

1273
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 12: I was saying.

1274
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 13: I'm from ground zero of the swing district in a

1275
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 13: swing state in Pennsylvania seven that we lost, and it

1276
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 13: was the one of two counties that flipped from Obama

1277
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 13: to Trump to Biden to Trump. Reaganomics is what killed

1278
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 13: bethlum Steel. At least that's what the people of Allentown

1279
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 13: and Bethlehem believe. So to wrap your economy in Bidenomics

1280
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 13: and take credit, wrap your name around inflation in an

1281
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 13: unsettled economy. I wrote this in an OpEd and they

1282
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 13: hated it. They were furious that I was trying to

1283
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 13: at least say you have to show.

1284
01:05:54,560 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 12: Not tell.

1285
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 13: You can't be a candidate and run for president and

1286
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 13: try to run out the clock.

1287
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:00,919
Speaker 12: It's just not going to work.

1288
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 13: It's not going to work, especially against a candidate like

1289
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,439
Speaker 13: Donald Trump, who embraces the media, who is confident enough

1290
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 13: to go and say, go anywhere and talk to anyone.

1291
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 13: And they attacked me, They smeared me, they planted stories

1292
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 13: about me, They were terrible to me. It paid a

1293
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 13: personal price for speaking out. Did I speak out about

1294
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 13: his age.

1295
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 3: No.

1296
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 13: I did not speak about his age, because again, my

1297
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 13: experience was that I never had that issue with him.

1298
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 13: My issue was what they clearly decided. It was a

1299
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 13: choice not to engage with voters, not to engage with

1300
01:06:32,920 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 13: the media and the public in the way that you

1301
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 13: do when you run for reelection. And I was seeing

1302
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,680
Speaker 13: the same polls you're talking about. None of those polls changed.

1303
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 13: The polls in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three

1304
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 13: were saying at least three fourths of our voters did

1305
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 13: not want him to run again. People and Democrats were

1306
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 13: speaking through the polls.

1307
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 12: I saw that.

1308
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 13: I said that, and I would say things that would

1309
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:02,360
Speaker 13: make them very angry, Like we loved polls four years ago,

1310
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 13: because when we were running for an entire year, about

1311
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 13: two hundred, I went and looked it up. Two hundred

1312
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 13: and fifty one out of two hundred and fifty six

1313
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 13: public polls had us ahead, and we.

1314
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 12: Loved Poles then.

1315
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 13: So I really hate it that my old teammates were

1316
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 13: denying polls, denying data, denying the journalism out there, denying

1317
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:26,920
Speaker 13: the the inflation numbers. It made me angry because you're

1318
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 13: supposed to at least try to see your flaws and

1319
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 13: your vulnerabilities in real life for what they are and

1320
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 13: then tried to confront them and change them.

1321
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 12: And they wouldn't do any of that.

1322
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 13: It was undermining the media, trashing the media, trashing the Times,

1323
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 13: trashing the journal and I didn't get it.

1324
01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 12: They ran scared.

1325
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:50,920
Speaker 13: Well, these were the things I had a problem with,

1326
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 13: and these were the things that ultimately cost me a

1327
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:57,240
Speaker 13: lot of close friendships and probably my relationship with them.

1328
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:58,760
Speaker 13: But the other thing that they didn't like, that I'll

1329
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 13: go ahead and say to you guys, is they didn't

1330
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 13: like I was joining the effort to help their son.

1331
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 12: The Bidens loved it.

1332
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 13: I was the only public advocate for their son because

1333
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 13: I hated the idea of children being weaponized or families

1334
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 13: of politicians being weaponized, and I saw what it did

1335
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 13: to the Bidens in a real life nineteen and twenty

1336
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 13: and through the White House, and the people in that

1337
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 13: White House who called me disloyal were throwing their son

1338
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:29,679
Speaker 13: under the bus constantly. Nobody was using the bully pulpit

1339
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:33,719
Speaker 13: to fight back against Comer and Jim Jordan. They weren't

1340
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,160
Speaker 13: doing anything. They weren't fighting back to help Hunter. I

1341
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:42,360
Speaker 13: was out there, but the White House did not want

1342
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 13: a They wanted distance from Hunter, which is why you know,

1343
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,519
Speaker 13: Hunter fired Anita Dunn's husband and brought in his own

1344
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 13: knife fighter, Abby Lowell.

1345
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 12: And they didn't like that.

1346
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,799
Speaker 13: They didn't like that we were being aggressive and defending

1347
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,640
Speaker 13: their son, in defending and trying to set up a

1348
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 13: legal defense fund for him, which by the way, George

1349
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 13: Bush forty one's donors did for his son, who costs

1350
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 13: the American people a lot more money than Hunter Biden.

1351
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,840
Speaker 3: My last question is on family. It's you know, I

1352
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 3: look at you Biden. I wonder if he was in

1353
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 3: a place where he could be trusted to make the

1354
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 3: decision about whether he can run again, if he was

1355
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 3: like sort of had his faculties about him in order

1356
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:24,440
Speaker 3: to say I'm running for reelection.

1357
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 5: Who was telling him or was it him?

1358
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,840
Speaker 3: From your understanding is that he wanted to run again,

1359
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 3: and so as you said, Jill, Biden was all in

1360
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 3: as long as but he was he in a position

1361
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:37,200
Speaker 3: to competently say I want to run again and then

1362
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:38,120
Speaker 3: have the people.

1363
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,280
Speaker 5: Who love him say, oh, yes, this is a good idea.

1364
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 5: Or should people have stepped in and said.

1365
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 12: Well, you're not well.

1366
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 13: I don't want to adopt your questions, but but you're

1367
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 13: correct that he did think that I have Again, I

1368
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:53,360
Speaker 13: do not know whether again, there's a difference between covering

1369
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 13: up age and mental decline. And I have no idea

1370
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,520
Speaker 13: behind the scenes, whether he was there's a cognitive issue.

1371
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 12: What I will say, we.

1372
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 5: Did see it in front of the scene in the debate.

1373
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 12: We ended up seeing what we saw.

1374
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 13: We don't know because none of us are medical doctors, right,

1375
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 13: so we can't say. What we can say is something

1376
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 13: was wrong, something was not right. Going back to the

1377
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 13: point where if you can't perform as a candidate, you

1378
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 13: can't be running because you can be president. But there's

1379
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 13: a difference between a running for president and running the country.

1380
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,960
Speaker 13: So who do you've land So here's the thing. There

1381
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 13: were one of the smartest strategist in democratic politics. I'm

1382
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:32,280
Speaker 13: talking about a pollster who has a lot of Democratic

1383
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 13: candidates as clients, governors, senators. John Anslong was our chief

1384
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 13: polster in twenty twenty and twenty nineteen. A Biden guy

1385
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 13: since nineteen eighty seven. He was iced out after twenty

1386
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 13: twenty two because he the team. Who's the team, Anita Dunn,

1387
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 13: Mike Donalalan. I don't know about the others, Doctor Buden,

1388
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 13: I don't know. She would not make a decision like that.

1389
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 13: But the other one would be the ones to say,

1390
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:05,759
Speaker 13: all right, he cannot be showing the president this data

1391
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 13: because John was actually sending us monthly data and polling

1392
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:18,160
Speaker 13: updates in the first year on you know, where the

1393
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 13: party was, where the country was, the mood of the country,

1394
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 13: on inflation, things like that before the Virginia gubernatorial and

1395
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,679
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty two, they just ice. John was never

1396
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 13: even told he was going to be not with us

1397
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 13: in twenty twenty four.

1398
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 4: The other person, they didn't like the numbers.

1399
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 12: They didn't like the numbers.

1400
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 13: And Steve Shale another one who ran President Obama's state

1401
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 13: operation in Florida, not once, but twice. Ran the Draft

1402
01:11:43,439 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 13: Biden movement in twenty fifteen, was going to be the

1403
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,840
Speaker 13: lead strategist for the twenty sixteen campaign had he run.

1404
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,880
Speaker 13: Steve Shale ran our super pac in twenty twenty or

1405
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 13: twenty nineteen. Twenty twenty raised US millions of dollars. He

1406
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 13: was doing analysis, and he was doing surveys and polling.

1407
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 13: In June of twenty twenty two, he also provided the

1408
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:12,120
Speaker 13: Boss data that wasn't looking good about twenty twenty four

1409
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:15,320
Speaker 13: and what we needed to do to fix that, and

1410
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 13: at that point he was iced out, never even invited

1411
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 13: to the White House in four years.

1412
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 4: Well, Michael, thank you so much for coming by sharing

1413
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 4: your experience.

1414
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 12: Sorry for the over talking.

1415
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 13: There's a lot to talk about in this and there's

1416
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 13: a lot of different facets. I love them, I love

1417
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 13: Joe and Jill Biden, and I love the family, but

1418
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 13: I do think they were done a disservice by the

1419
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 13: people around them, and I hope they can start making

1420
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 13: adjustments to some of the advice that they've been getting.

1421
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 4: Michael Rossa, thank you.

1422
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 12: You're welcome.

1423
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 3: Some more bad economic indicators here in the United States.

1424
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 3: We can put this first element up on the screen

1425
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 3: from Bloomberg. The headline is market set for bumpy ride

1426
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 3: after Moody's downgrades US, so Crystal WIRECORDI this before the

1427
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 3: bell opens on Monday morning.

1428
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 5: Futures are down, I believe.

1429
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 3: But the Moody's US credit downgrade, as Bloomberg says, quote

1430
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 3: sets the stage for a jolt to the trading week.

1431
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 3: Big tech stocks go from a safe bet to a

1432
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:13,599
Speaker 3: question mark.

1433
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 11: Now.

1434
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 3: They also say quote traders are bracing for a rocky

1435
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:18,760
Speaker 3: starts the week after the US was stripped of its

1436
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 3: last top credit rating. Now just zooming in on that

1437
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 3: last top credit rating. Moodies was the last to formally

1438
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 3: make this decision, and they cided quote mounting concern about

1439
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 3: debt as it knocked the country score down a notch.

1440
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 3: Scott Bessant called the move a quote lagging indicator. So

1441
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 3: they're once again kind of trying to point the finger

1442
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 3: back at Joy Biden, and he was on Meet the Press.

1443
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,639
Speaker 3: We have some clips of that. So just yesterday Scott

1444
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 3: Bessant was asked by Kristen Welker to comment on it.

1445
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 5: Let's go ahead and take a listen to C two.

1446
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,000
Speaker 19: Does the President's tax bill need to do more to

1447
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 19: address the nation's debt and deficit.

1448
01:13:56,360 --> 01:14:00,400
Speaker 15: Well, Kristen, first of all, I think that mood is

1449
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 15: a lagging indicator. I think that's what everyone thinks of

1450
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 15: credit agencies. Larry Summers and I don't agree on everything,

1451
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 15: but he said that when they downgraded the US in

1452
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:15,360
Speaker 15: two thousand and eleven. So it's a lagging indicator. And

1453
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 15: just like Sean Duffy said with our air traffic control system,

1454
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,519
Speaker 15: we didn't get here in the past hundred days. It's

1455
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 15: the Biden administration and this spending that we have seen

1456
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 15: over the past four years. We inherited six point seven

1457
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:34,680
Speaker 15: percent deficit to GDP, the highest when we weren't in recession,

1458
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,439
Speaker 15: not in the war, and we are determined to bring

1459
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 15: the spending down and grow the economy fair enough.

1460
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,680
Speaker 19: Why is it appropriate for the president to accept a

1461
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 19: four hundred million dollar jet from Kutchup, Well.

1462
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 5: It's not.

1463
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 15: The president accepted to be the United States government and

1464
01:14:50,320 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 15: Senator Mullens said this weekend that the talks had actually

1465
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:58,519
Speaker 15: begun under the Biden administration. The President Trump has brought

1466
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 15: back trillions of investment in the United States. Every stop

1467
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 15: we made that the enthusiasm in Saudi Arabia, in Qatar,

1468
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 15: in the United Arab Emirates to invest in the United States,

1469
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 15: that they want to push more and more. They have

1470
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,799
Speaker 15: funds here. And if we go back to your initial

1471
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 15: question on the Moody's downgrades, who cares? Kut doesn't, Saudi doesn't,

1472
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 15: Uee doesn't. They're all pushing money in.

1473
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 5: They want to.

1474
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 15: They've made tenure, they've made tenure investment plans.

1475
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 3: All right, So we can go ahead and put the

1476
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 3: next element up on the screen as well. Consumer sentiments

1477
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 3: from CNBC slides to second lowest on record as inflation

1478
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 3: expectations jump after tariffs. So Bessett, on the one hand,

1479
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:50,120
Speaker 3: is correct. Biden era spending was really, really high. And

1480
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 3: it's possible that Moodies, if they're citing concerns about debt,

1481
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 3: is still is still reacting to those heightened levels of spending.

1482
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 3: But if that is the case, they should We're going

1483
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:02,719
Speaker 3: to talk about this later in the show. Be fairly

1484
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 3: concerned about the Reconciliation bill that is about to explode

1485
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:09,600
Speaker 3: the debt as it makes its way through the Republican

1486
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 3: controlled Congress, the Republican controlled House of Representatives, the Republican

1487
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 3: controlled Senate, their own party is, you know, waiving kind

1488
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 3: of the red flag about that problem, and it's not

1489
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 3: going well.

1490
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 5: So it's also.

1491
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:26,639
Speaker 3: Possible that Moody's is looking at that and saying, holy smokes,

1492
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 3: tariffs needed, even by the Trump administration's own admission, some

1493
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 3: form of industrial policy that is now hinging on the

1494
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:38,519
Speaker 3: Republican's ability to lose no more than two votes if

1495
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 3: everyone is there and voting, they can only lose two

1496
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 3: votes to get this bill passed. And if it's a

1497
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 3: deficit exploding bill, if it has industrial policy, We're still

1498
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 3: not completely sure about that, but I think to some

1499
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 3: extent bestment, it's probably correct that it's a lagging indicator.

1500
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,439
Speaker 5: The US economy has been in rough shape.

1501
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 3: For a long time, but also the the forecast is

1502
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 3: incredibly uncertain because of Trump administration policies. Again, by their

1503
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:07,720
Speaker 3: own admission, they're in the middle of a sort of

1504
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 3: laboratory style experiment at the moment, and there are a

1505
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:15,400
Speaker 3: lot of uncertainties in the months ahead. Crystal, what did

1506
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 3: you make of this and do you agree that it's

1507
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,440
Speaker 3: to some extent a lagging indicator.

1508
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 2: I mean, somewhat these things build on each other. But

1509
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 2: to me, it's like an indictment. It's the final indictment

1510
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:30,799
Speaker 2: of DOGE too, because you know Doge was supposed to solve.

1511
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 2: We're going to find all this, We're going to cut

1512
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,880
Speaker 2: two trillion dollars to be all good.

1513
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,160
Speaker 4: You know, I'm not a deficit hawk.

1514
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 2: However, I will say if we do have the world

1515
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 2: move away from the US and the dollar as the

1516
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 2: world reserve currency, then we are going to have a

1517
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 2: problem with debt. I mean this is you know, the

1518
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,000
Speaker 2: flight to safety of treasury bonds, like the fact that

1519
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 2: the whole world looks to us to buy our debt,

1520
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:01,560
Speaker 2: and you know, to use dollars as the global reserve currency,

1521
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 2: you know, the base of basically every international transaction. Yeah,

1522
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:08,479
Speaker 2: if the world moves away from that, we are going

1523
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:10,639
Speaker 2: to have to reckon with some of these things. So

1524
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 2: number one, like DOJE obviously total incomplete failure. Number two,

1525
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 2: you know the House Budget resolution that just passed through.

1526
01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 2: You're talking about some four to five trillion dollars in

1527
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 2: deficit increase because of these massive tax cuts for the rich.

1528
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 2: So if this is something you really have a concern about,

1529
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:35,080
Speaker 2: then they're running a million miles in the wrong direction

1530
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 2: and did in the first Trump administration as well, So

1531
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:41,360
Speaker 2: it's just as much a lacking indicator of his first administration,

1532
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,920
Speaker 2: where they also gave massive, expensive tax cuts as it

1533
01:18:45,000 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 2: is the you know, the COVID era spending, which was

1534
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 2: absolutely essential to keeping Americans afloat during a very rough

1535
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 2: time through no fault of their own. So, you know,

1536
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 2: I think it's in a lot of ways, it is

1537
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,960
Speaker 2: a real indictment of the direction and what has already

1538
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,599
Speaker 2: been done in this Trump administration, just judging by their

1539
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 2: own goals and standards of what they claimed they wanted

1540
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 2: to set out to accomplish. And then I do think

1541
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 2: it also, you know, in terms of the world moving

1542
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: away from the US as like the central essential nation

1543
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:20,360
Speaker 2: and this incredible privilege that we've had being at the

1544
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 2: center of the global financial system, you know, this is

1545
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:27,639
Speaker 2: another sort of this is another knock on US as

1546
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 2: being the place, the center of everything, the center of

1547
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,240
Speaker 2: the world, and this just puts us a little bit

1548
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:39,800
Speaker 2: more in the direction of a post US world.

1549
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:41,919
Speaker 5: Order into the question of the lagging indicator.

1550
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 3: When we put that CNBC Tear Street up on the screen,

1551
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 3: one of the quotes from it is then the index

1552
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:48,479
Speaker 3: of consumer sentiment drop from fifty point eight down from

1553
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,759
Speaker 3: fifty two point two in April. In the preliminary reading

1554
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 3: for May, that is the second lowest reading on record

1555
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,519
Speaker 3: behind June twenty twenty two. That gets to particularly the

1556
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 3: last five months and the Trump and really it's post

1557
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 3: Liberation Day, post April second. Yeah, but that gets to,

1558
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 3: you know, the fact that Moody's aside, it gets to

1559
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 3: the fact that the uncertainty in the Trump era economy,

1560
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,680
Speaker 3: which again even by their own emission, is part of

1561
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,880
Speaker 3: their plan, is affecting the economy in and of itself.

1562
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:18,240
Speaker 5: Like this kind of meta.

1563
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 3: But if you're going to create an uncertainty, that will actually,

1564
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:23,639
Speaker 3: if you're going to create in certainty as leverage, it's

1565
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,879
Speaker 3: it's going to have an immediate effect on the economy.

1566
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 4: Also, I mean, the terrorsts are supposed to make us rich.

1567
01:20:27,880 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 4: What happened to that?

1568
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:30,400
Speaker 5: I'm feeling liberated.

1569
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:35,960
Speaker 3: I guess you're not feeling liberated, but some of us

1570
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,080
Speaker 3: are feeling liberated.

1571
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, congratulations to you.

1572
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 2: M There was one other piece of this that I

1573
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 2: actually want to hear your thoughts on that part where Bus'

1574
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:46,880
Speaker 2: is like, well, why should we care. Kusher doesn't care,

1575
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,599
Speaker 2: the UA doesn't care, Saudi Arabia doesn't care.

1576
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 4: It's like wow, And.

1577
01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 2: It reminded me of something actually, Rocana has been really

1578
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:55,800
Speaker 2: going after them for which again is the distance between

1579
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 2: the America First rhetoric and the reality of this administration

1580
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:03,839
Speaker 2: setting up this massive AI data center in UAE.

1581
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,759
Speaker 4: Versus we were told, oh, well, this is all these jobs.

1582
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 2: Of the future, We're going to be here in the

1583
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:11,720
Speaker 2: US and you know, as a core part of the

1584
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 2: America First project, and yet here we are instead they're

1585
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:15,679
Speaker 2: going to be in the UA.

1586
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 4: Apparently.

1587
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:16,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1588
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 3: I thought that was a great point from Rowe. He

1589
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 3: was making it over the weekend. I mean, them saying

1590
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:25,320
Speaker 3: hedging their bets with these golf countries. It's actually like

1591
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:28,479
Speaker 3: kind of frightening for I mean, who knows what happens

1592
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 3: the next president and Trump administration can do whatever the

1593
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 3: Trump administration does for three years potentially, and then things

1594
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 3: can change. But it's quite a way to go about it.

1595
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 3: And Chris, so I really want to move on to

1596
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 3: this post from Donald Trump, and I also just kind

1597
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,759
Speaker 3: of want to inject it straight into my veins.

1598
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 5: This is C four.

1599
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 3: This is a true social post from Trump where he

1600
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 3: said Walmart should stop trying to blame tariffs as the

1601
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:54,960
Speaker 3: reason for raising prices.

1602
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 5: Throughout the chain.

1603
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:58,400
Speaker 3: Walmart made billions of dollars last year, far more than

1604
01:21:58,439 --> 01:22:01,679
Speaker 3: expected between Walmart and China, that they should, as A said, quote,

1605
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,720
Speaker 3: eat the tariff as one says, as A said the

1606
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 3: popular phrase popular TIFFs, and not charge valued customers anything

1607
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 3: all caps. I'll be watching, and so will your customers.

1608
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:15,840
Speaker 3: The reason I say I wanted to inject this into

1609
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 3: my vein crystal is this is how I generally feel

1610
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 3: about most things that get passed down to consumers from

1611
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:24,200
Speaker 3: these corporations.

1612
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:25,719
Speaker 5: It drives me completely insane.

1613
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:28,639
Speaker 3: They never pass it down to their workers, and they're

1614
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:31,519
Speaker 3: doing all kinds of stupid stuff like buybacks and whatever else.

1615
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 3: But uh, it's it's actually, I think, a really fantastic point.

1616
01:22:35,400 --> 01:22:39,160
Speaker 3: But the problem for Trump obviously is he's not really

1617
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:41,919
Speaker 3: doing anything to force them.

1618
01:22:42,040 --> 01:22:44,719
Speaker 5: To pass the to not pass the costs down.

1619
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:47,200
Speaker 3: And you know, there are all kinds of carrots and

1620
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:49,879
Speaker 3: six that can be used as part of an industrial policy,

1621
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 3: so that aside, I do want to say, I mean,

1622
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 3: according to Business Insider, I'm sorry. According to the a

1623
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 3: FL CIO, which tracks CEO pay. Walmart's CEO is the

1624
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 3: high paid CEO in all of retail, which is not

1625
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 3: surprising at all, but took home a cool twenty seven

1626
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 3: million dollars last year. And again, if you're looking at

1627
01:23:08,560 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 3: Target CEO, by the way, that was down to nineteen

1628
01:23:10,640 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 3: million Costco sixteen million. I mean, this is an incredibly

1629
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 3: high level of CEO pay. The ratio to worker pay

1630
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,760
Speaker 3: is not great obviously either. And that stuff actually does

1631
01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 3: drive me absolutely insane that we just say, you know,

1632
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 3: instead of maybe reshoring, eating some costs whatever, they insist

1633
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:34,760
Speaker 3: on paying their executives at completely unpatriotic, unethical levels, and

1634
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,479
Speaker 3: it is absolutely bananas. So on the one hand, uh yeah,

1635
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:41,759
Speaker 3: I think Donald Trump is absolutely one thousand percent correct

1636
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,120
Speaker 3: on this question. On the other hand, there have to

1637
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:45,679
Speaker 3: be a series of carrots and sticks.

1638
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 2: Well, and listen, corporations are going to corporation, they're gonna business.

1639
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:52,920
Speaker 4: Oh, they're gonna you know, they're going to do.

1640
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 3: Their care marketab yeah and.

1641
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're not doing anything to your point to

1642
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 2: make that not be the case. But also, watch me

1643
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,559
Speaker 2: here defend Walmart when you're talking about a thirty percent

1644
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 2: tariff their profit margins are not thirty percent, Like you

1645
01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 2: can't just eat that. There is inevitably going to be

1646
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:16,120
Speaker 2: some amount of that even if they eat some of it,

1647
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,040
Speaker 2: and they can't eat some of it. This is a

1648
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:21,439
Speaker 2: very profitable corporation, don't get me wrong. And they pay

1649
01:24:21,439 --> 01:24:23,720
Speaker 2: their CEO an insane amount. All of those things are

1650
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,799
Speaker 2: absolutely true. They don't have a thirty percent profit margin.

1651
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 2: So if many of their goods are coming from China

1652
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:33,760
Speaker 2: or you know, parts coming from China and being assembled here, etc.

1653
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 2: Then what you're going to end up with is, yes,

1654
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,559
Speaker 2: some cost getting passed on to consumers, or the other

1655
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 2: alternative is some cost getting passed onto the small businesses

1656
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,559
Speaker 2: that are selling those goods to Walmart. And that's actually

1657
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 2: where a lot of the squeeze is going to come.

1658
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:53,840
Speaker 2: Remember we talked about this lady who has her like

1659
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 2: busy baby Matt thing that you finally got into Walmart,

1660
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,639
Speaker 2: small business you know, based here in America. She wanted

1661
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 2: to make a product America was literally impossible, so she

1662
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:04,519
Speaker 2: made it in China, and you know it is the

1663
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,600
Speaker 2: only place where she could really go and get what

1664
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,760
Speaker 2: she needed for this very specialized product. She gets her

1665
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 2: product picked up by Walmart. Well that's at a set

1666
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 2: contracted price. So and Walmart, I think, weren't they the

1667
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:18,800
Speaker 2: ones that put out the thing that we're like, we're

1668
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:22,680
Speaker 2: not accepting price increases sorry with regard to tariffs. So

1669
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,879
Speaker 2: it's going to be people like her who get completely screwed,

1670
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 2: who are locked into this contract at this price that

1671
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:31,800
Speaker 2: is now completely unattainable. Now, thirty percent tariff is better

1672
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 2: than the one hundred and forty five percent tariff that

1673
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:37,799
Speaker 2: it was, but that is still a dramatic increase in costs.

1674
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:40,599
Speaker 2: And you know, I don't know the specifics for her business,

1675
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,719
Speaker 2: but for many small medium business owners, that will completely

1676
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 2: put them under. So that's the real, the actual reality

1677
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 2: that you're talking about here in terms of who is

1678
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:52,280
Speaker 2: going to quote unquote eat the tariffs.

1679
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:56,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again like it's Donald Trump knows who how

1680
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,599
Speaker 3: Walmart is going to handle this, Like, yeah, he knows

1681
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 3: exactly that they can't. The CEO pay thing is an

1682
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:05,240
Speaker 3: interesting glimpse into all of this, Like it's it's not

1683
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:08,679
Speaker 3: just one company like Walmart couldn't just stop paying this guy.

1684
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 3: It's like twenty million of this is tied up in

1685
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 3: stock awards annually so.

1686
01:26:11,840 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 5: Like they can't do that.

1687
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,240
Speaker 3: He could choose to be a decent human being and

1688
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 3: pass some of those some of his salary on to

1689
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 3: workers and not you know, high prices, Like he could

1690
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:24,680
Speaker 3: choose to do that. But the entire system is not

1691
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:27,320
Speaker 3: going to fix itself because the Walmart, because first of all,

1692
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:30,000
Speaker 3: Walmart in and of itself reacts as Donald Trump wants them,

1693
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 3: and singling out Walmart, by the way, means that he's

1694
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:34,760
Speaker 3: taking away or he's trying to take away some of

1695
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 3: the market advantage for them, and that their competitors can

1696
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 3: do differently. So it's it's an incredibly fragile ecosystem that

1697
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 3: he's working with here, and you can't just expect, you know,

1698
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 3: one person or one retail chain, even as massive as

1699
01:26:49,080 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 3: it is, to do those sorts of things. But CEO pay,

1700
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,360
Speaker 3: I mean, these guys, if you if you want to

1701
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 3: find a CEO, they're all making stupid, stupid money, and

1702
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,840
Speaker 3: so you have to pay them competitively. The thing to

1703
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:04,280
Speaker 3: do is just to create a culture of shame around

1704
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:09,000
Speaker 3: that level of intake, and especially when it's the ratio

1705
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:11,800
Speaker 3: like that should be so incredibly shameful. The idea that

1706
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,160
Speaker 3: you would be taking home this type of money and

1707
01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 3: then hiking prices on consumers because there's an attempt to

1708
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:23,759
Speaker 3: actually reshore some manufacturing and those like that's that should

1709
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:26,760
Speaker 3: be shameful, and so I think Trump is trying to

1710
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 3: do some version of that, but it's it's pretty hard

1711
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:34,320
Speaker 3: for it, especially when they're doing their tax cut bill. Yeah,

1712
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 3: they're about to cut corporate taxes best in s goals

1713
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:41,439
Speaker 3: to take it from twenty one to fifteen percent. It's

1714
01:27:41,479 --> 01:27:45,440
Speaker 3: a really mixed messaging situation for the administration.

1715
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 2: That's about the most positive thing you possibly say about it.

1716
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 2: But yes, I'm in favor of creating culture shame, growing

1717
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:55,479
Speaker 2: a culture shame around this and many other things besides,

1718
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 2: because I think shamelessness is one of the sort of

1719
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 2: like key values of the NAGA world.

1720
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:03,760
Speaker 3: And Trump we're actually going to talk about this in

1721
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,479
Speaker 3: the tax block. So stick around, and we're going to

1722
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 3: talk about how it was created and how it sort

1723
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 3: of was grown on the right and then's where it

1724
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:15,680
Speaker 3: took off. So that's actually a good tie in to

1725
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 3: that segment.

1726
01:28:16,520 --> 01:28:17,599
Speaker 5: Let's listen to C six.

1727
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:20,679
Speaker 3: This is Donald Trump talking about the return of those

1728
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 3: arbitrary tariffs.

1729
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 5: Go ahead, roull it.

1730
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 8: We just reached a fantastic trade deal, as you know

1731
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:29,640
Speaker 8: with the United Kingdom, which was wonderful, And do we

1732
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 8: have another big one that we just reached with China.

1733
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 8: China deal is a very big deal. It's in the

1734
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 8: process of continuing.

1735
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:41,320
Speaker 12: To be formed. But they wanted to make that deal

1736
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:43,880
Speaker 12: very badly. And we have at the.

1737
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 8: Same time one hundred and fifty countries that want to

1738
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 8: make a deal. But you're not able to see that

1739
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,200
Speaker 8: many countries. So a certain point over the next two

1740
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 8: to three weeks, I think Scott and Howard, we'll be

1741
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:59,200
Speaker 8: sending letters out essentially telling people it would be very fair,

1742
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:03,880
Speaker 8: but we'll be telling people what they'll be paying to

1743
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:06,880
Speaker 8: do business in the United States, so essentially be paying

1744
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,639
Speaker 8: to be doing business in the United States. I guess

1745
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:12,640
Speaker 8: you could say they could appeal it, but for the

1746
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 8: most part, I think we're going to be very fair.

1747
01:29:15,080 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 8: But it's not possible to meet the number of people

1748
01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:21,840
Speaker 8: that want to see us. And but this was coming

1749
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 8: to UAE was very important. Coming to Saudi Arabian Qatar

1750
01:29:27,520 --> 01:29:30,559
Speaker 8: was very important to me because of personal relationships that

1751
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 8: I had, maybe more than anything else.

1752
01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 5: So yeah, that was Trump and the UAE now this is.

1753
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:39,600
Speaker 2: The personal relationships part was interesting too there at the

1754
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 2: end of like, yeah, it probably went there because I

1755
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 2: just I like these guys.

1756
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 4: They we're going to give me some business deals.

1757
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 3: So yeah, and he also I'm also saying we aren't.

1758
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 3: We don't have the ability to meet with all the

1759
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:50,680
Speaker 3: people that want to meet with us. That's something we

1760
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:52,640
Speaker 3: were told that they did have the ability.

1761
01:29:52,280 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 5: To do during Liberation Day.

1762
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 4: Remember, it wasn't that the goal.

1763
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,360
Speaker 5: It's no problem whatsoever.

1764
01:29:57,479 --> 01:29:59,800
Speaker 2: Is the greatest deal maker of all time, and he's

1765
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:01,720
Speaker 2: going to put on a masterclass for all of us.

1766
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,360
Speaker 3: They're teasing what like eighteen deals that they say they

1767
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 3: have something like that over the course of this week

1768
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 3: that they're planning to get to the bottom of. Yeah.

1769
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:09,800
Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds like what they're doing right there

1770
01:30:09,840 --> 01:30:14,080
Speaker 3: is lowering expectations for that not coming to fruition. And

1771
01:30:14,160 --> 01:30:19,080
Speaker 3: maybe they'll get a few key deals UK, India, maybe Japan,

1772
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 3: Like maybe they will get a few things that they

1773
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:23,360
Speaker 3: can point to and say, listen, this is we put

1774
01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:25,839
Speaker 3: the screws to everyone. But it sounds like they're actually

1775
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 3: not getting the response that they want from other countries.

1776
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:29,559
Speaker 15: Well.

1777
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,679
Speaker 2: Lowering expectations and other countries looked at what China did,

1778
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 2: which is basically nothing, and whin, Yeah, that's true, and

1779
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:38,600
Speaker 2: they're like, well, why should we come on bended me

1780
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:41,719
Speaker 2: when we've got a model here in what the Chinese

1781
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 2: were able to pull off. Now, not every country has,

1782
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,240
Speaker 2: No other country really has as much sort of power

1783
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:50,000
Speaker 2: in these negotiations as the Chinese do, but I do

1784
01:30:50,040 --> 01:30:51,840
Speaker 2: think that that was a learning and a model and

1785
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 2: a lesson for other countries that make it less likely

1786
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:57,599
Speaker 2: that you're going to be able to strike all of

1787
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 2: these deals that we were promised going in. And Scott

1788
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 2: Bessant was pressed on, okay, well, so if you're going

1789
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 2: to just sort of like figure out whatever the teriff

1790
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 2: rate is without going through these negotiations, what level are

1791
01:31:09,960 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 2: we looking at? And he said, effectively, well, I guess

1792
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:15,760
Speaker 2: we'll go back to the liberation day rates. So the chart,

1793
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,720
Speaker 2: you know, with the penguins and all of that, and

1794
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 2: fifty percent on littho and all of that, apparently that's

1795
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:21,599
Speaker 2: coming back.

1796
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 4: So let's take a listen to Charger Secretary Scot Besson.

1797
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:28,839
Speaker 19: Mister secretary, does that effectively mean that these negotiations with other.

1798
01:31:28,680 --> 01:31:29,759
Speaker 4: Countries are over?

1799
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:32,599
Speaker 19: And how high should they expect tariffs to go above

1800
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:33,200
Speaker 19: ten percent?

1801
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 15: This means that they're not negotiating in good faith. They

1802
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:41,680
Speaker 15: are going to get a letter they saying here is

1803
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 15: the rate. So I would expect that everyone would come

1804
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:47,880
Speaker 15: and negotiate in good faiths you expect.

1805
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 19: That rate though, that you would slap on any country

1806
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:51,760
Speaker 19: that you think is not negotiating in good faith to

1807
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:52,719
Speaker 19: be above ten percent.

1808
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:56,599
Speaker 15: Well, I think that it would be the April second level.

1809
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:00,479
Speaker 15: Some countries were at ten percent somewhere substantially higher.

1810
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:03,080
Speaker 4: So back to Liberation Day, Emily.

1811
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 5: Well, that's why.

1812
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:05,600
Speaker 3: So what was this? Yeah, it was last week. I

1813
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:08,559
Speaker 3: think it was last Monday. I just like was not

1814
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 3: willing to call Trump's China tariff move capitulation quite yet

1815
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:17,400
Speaker 3: because I'm like, I think they still don't know what's happening.

1816
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,679
Speaker 5: Like there's still they don't really have a strategy here.

1817
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:22,080
Speaker 3: Their strategy is still just like let people come to

1818
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:25,559
Speaker 3: us and do ad hoc, have a kind of ad

1819
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,720
Speaker 3: hoc approach to putting the screws to other countries and

1820
01:32:28,760 --> 01:32:30,960
Speaker 3: getting like, they don't have levels that they want to

1821
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 3: see other countries get to. They just want to sort

1822
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:35,680
Speaker 3: of negotiate some of these non trade barriers and like

1823
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:38,479
Speaker 3: the all non tariff trade barriers and all this stuff.

1824
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 3: And I think that's what we're seeing from that Trump

1825
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 3: clip and this Besting clip is just that they're they're

1826
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 3: feeling like they're not getting good enough deals and so

1827
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 3: they're going back to threatening April second levels. I mean,

1828
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 3: it's just completely unpredictable, which is not what they need

1829
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 3: right now at all. They need some type of certainty

1830
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 3: at this point. They need to have a lot of

1831
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 3: deals inked that look good, that look you know, pretty

1832
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,160
Speaker 3: that people can be confident that that's where the level

1833
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,080
Speaker 3: is going to be going forward, that people can be

1834
01:33:06,280 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 3: even if they think it's too high and it's it's

1835
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 3: not going to be great for the United States, at

1836
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:11,439
Speaker 3: the end of the day, they can say this is

1837
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 3: what it's going to look like, and we can make investments. Accordingly,

1838
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 3: the bill is a disaster for them right now in

1839
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:21,720
Speaker 3: the in the House, and well it's not even over

1840
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 3: at the Senate side yet, but like that's already choppy.

1841
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 3: So if they're even able to pass that is an

1842
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,720
Speaker 3: open question. And despite or on top of that, they

1843
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 3: now don't have like they're they're going away from clarity

1844
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,599
Speaker 3: on these questions, and they might need to to get.

1845
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 4: Good tax credits even in this bill.

1846
01:33:38,520 --> 01:33:41,920
Speaker 3: Do we know, Yes, yeah, they're in the bill, but

1847
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 3: I don't know, like that could change. I mean that

1848
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:48,000
Speaker 3: could change when it gets the Senate. The whole reconciliation

1849
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 3: process is right, so so so uncertain. You're throwing things

1850
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:52,560
Speaker 3: in and taking them out at the last minute to

1851
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:55,360
Speaker 3: make these deals. So who knows that they stick around?

1852
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:56,479
Speaker 4: You know.

1853
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:00,920
Speaker 2: The other the reason why I felt comfortable calling it

1854
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:03,799
Speaker 2: a capitulation still do is in the context of China,

1855
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 2: the initial rhetoric for Trump was so maximalist about like

1856
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:09,840
Speaker 2: we I don't even know why we have overseas supply chains,

1857
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,519
Speaker 2: and they were talking about a total decoupling from China

1858
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:17,759
Speaker 2: and backing off of that unilaterally without getting anything really

1859
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:20,760
Speaker 2: in exchange, I mean really truly nothing in exchange from

1860
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 2: China other than oh, they'll talk to us about ventanel.

1861
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:27,559
Speaker 2: That I think is fair to call a capitulation. They

1862
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,360
Speaker 2: realized they could not take this immediate maximalist approach to

1863
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,280
Speaker 2: China specifically and be able to survive what the stock

1864
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:37,800
Speaker 2: in the bond markets and the domestic political situation, all

1865
01:34:37,880 --> 01:34:40,439
Speaker 2: of that was going to throw at them. Now, I

1866
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 2: think it's fair to say, and I felt this as well,

1867
01:34:43,320 --> 01:34:45,080
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that Trump is done.

1868
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:47,000
Speaker 4: With tariff's say, I think because it's still changed.

1869
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:49,040
Speaker 2: Well, and first of all, I mean thirty percent, Like

1870
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 2: I just we got a level set here. If we

1871
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:53,479
Speaker 2: had gotten thirty percent, if there'd never been the one

1872
01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:55,519
Speaker 2: hundred and forty five percent and just out of the

1873
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:57,640
Speaker 2: gates what was announced was thirty percent, we would all

1874
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 2: be like, holy shit, forget that is a gigantic yeah, right,

1875
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:05,639
Speaker 2: that's like smooth Holly level style tariff. It's a massive

1876
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:07,880
Speaker 2: tax increase on working class people, like it is an

1877
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 2: extraordinary economic political event. And as I've also been saying,

1878
01:35:12,840 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 2: Trump loves tariffs because they give him all of this

1879
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:18,519
Speaker 2: unilateral power, and we've learned more about that since the

1880
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:21,880
Speaker 2: Liberation Day and what they've been using some of the

1881
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,960
Speaker 2: things that he's been using that leverage in order to accomplish.

1882
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:28,840
Speaker 2: And actually one of the key things is apparently to

1883
01:35:28,880 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 2: help out his buddy Elon Musk with starlink. You know,

1884
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:34,400
Speaker 2: they've been using the State Department, as you've been using

1885
01:35:34,439 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 2: the tariffs as sort of a you know, mob boss

1886
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 2: tactic to get countries that were reluctant to take up

1887
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 2: starlink to go ahead and you know, accept to have

1888
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 2: licenses for this product. So, you know, I don't think

1889
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 2: that he's done with tariffs, because if there's one thing

1890
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,719
Speaker 2: we've seen in Trump two point zero, it is all

1891
01:35:51,840 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 2: about him consolidating as much power as he can in

1892
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:57,960
Speaker 2: his own hands and in the hands of the executive and.

1893
01:35:58,040 --> 01:36:01,600
Speaker 4: Tariffs are a key part of that story.

1894
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:03,640
Speaker 2: That allows him to you know, all the businesses have

1895
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 2: to come to him, all the countries have to come

1896
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 2: to him something that he can use as a carrot,

1897
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:09,599
Speaker 2: as a stick et, cetera. And that's why I think

1898
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 2: we're far from finished with the tariff conversation.

1899
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 5: Yeah. Absolutely.

1900
01:36:13,479 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 3: And your point about the thirty percent level, I mean

1901
01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 3: when orange Cast in American Compass proposed that ten percent

1902
01:36:18,360 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 3: global tariff, there was a massive freakout. And now that

1903
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:25,200
Speaker 3: looks like sweet relief to the markets and to the

1904
01:36:25,240 --> 01:36:25,960
Speaker 3: corporate class.

1905
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:30,200
Speaker 2: Well, what was inflation at its peak in under Biden

1906
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,519
Speaker 2: with COVID It was it never hit ten percent, And

1907
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:36,040
Speaker 2: so if you're talking if you are talking about ten

1908
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 2: percent around the world, you know it may not be

1909
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 2: exactly ten percent inflation that you're going to experience, but

1910
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 2: it's going to be a significant amount. I mean, that

1911
01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:48,240
Speaker 2: is a dramatic economic event. Just ten percent across the board,

1912
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 2: let alone thirty percent here and fifty percent there. And

1913
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:55,360
Speaker 2: you know what they're what they contemplated on April second,

1914
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:57,400
Speaker 2: and apparently are still contemplating going back to and.

1915
01:36:57,360 --> 01:36:59,600
Speaker 3: As possible, we look back at this moment and you know,

1916
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:02,120
Speaker 3: the the last two plus months, I mean, it's been

1917
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:05,799
Speaker 3: so crazy. You never know how this stuff ages because

1918
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,439
Speaker 3: they're so at hoc about this. And again I think

1919
01:37:08,439 --> 01:37:10,439
Speaker 3: they see that as part of the leverage that it's

1920
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:13,800
Speaker 3: creating uncertainty and other countries, to your point, have to

1921
01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 3: kind of come on bend and d And that's sort

1922
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 3: of what they're saying. Here is Trump and the UAE

1923
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 3: and that clip we rolled saying, we don't even have

1924
01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:23,000
Speaker 3: time to meet with all of you. You want to

1925
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 3: do trade with us, but we don't even have time

1926
01:37:24,560 --> 01:37:25,799
Speaker 3: to talk to you, Like that's.

1927
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:27,439
Speaker 5: How powerful we are.

1928
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:31,519
Speaker 3: And of course I think we could look back on

1929
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,879
Speaker 3: this and be like, this was just a moment where

1930
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:37,840
Speaker 3: they were, you know, feeling uncertain about the deals. They

1931
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 3: felt like they weren't getting enough deals and because they

1932
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 3: flexed like this, everyone ended up coming back and you know,

1933
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,559
Speaker 3: making better deals whatever. But that's just really not the

1934
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:52,400
Speaker 3: trajectory again of the last like six weeks. We're just

1935
01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:55,559
Speaker 3: how many weeks into six seven weeks into post liberation

1936
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 3: day world, and there aren't a lot of deals coming

1937
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:02,519
Speaker 3: to fruition, and there's scattershot ones, and I think some

1938
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:05,160
Speaker 3: of them are like actually good changes. The way that

1939
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 3: it's looking with the UK, it looks like a decent step,

1940
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,519
Speaker 3: that looks like a step in the right direction roughly,

1941
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 3: but this was worldwide essentially.

1942
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 4: I mean.

1943
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 2: Also, it's not like, I mean, whether you think that

1944
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,120
Speaker 2: the UK deal is marginally better than the status quote

1945
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:22,160
Speaker 2: or not, it's not like this was a game changer.

1946
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,360
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, it's just all of this,

1947
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,599
Speaker 3: you know, no, not at all. And that's the thing.

1948
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:30,320
Speaker 3: It's like, you just need to see. I mean, you

1949
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:31,880
Speaker 3: would need to see a lot more than what's been

1950
01:38:31,880 --> 01:38:32,479
Speaker 3: seen so far.

1951
01:38:35,520 --> 01:38:37,880
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and turn to this extreme weather that

1952
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:41,360
Speaker 2: we saw with horrific deadly consequences in the middle of

1953
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:44,760
Speaker 2: the country, Kentucky and Missouri in particular, really hard hit

1954
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 2: by this strong line of tornadoes and storms. You can

1955
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:51,760
Speaker 2: put some images up on the screen here. Twenty six

1956
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:55,759
Speaker 2: people are dead after these tornadoes hit in those two states.

1957
01:38:56,000 --> 01:38:57,519
Speaker 4: Here's some footage from USA today.

1958
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 2: They say deadly tornadoes leave a trail of destruction Kentucky.

1959
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:03,800
Speaker 2: There you actually see the tornado itself. They say this

1960
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:08,040
Speaker 2: is Scott County, Missouri. Here this is terrifying, as part

1961
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:10,720
Speaker 2: of an apartment building just blows apart like it's made

1962
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 2: of absolutely nothing. We've got some of the aftermath here.

1963
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if this is Kentucky or Misseri. I

1964
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:17,840
Speaker 2: think this is in Kentucky, but I'm not one hundred

1965
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:20,640
Speaker 2: percent sure. But you can see just the level of devastation.

1966
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:24,160
Speaker 2: And this is in London, Kentucky. Looks like it was

1967
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:26,640
Speaker 2: a small airport there. You can see the debris and

1968
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:30,200
Speaker 2: wreckage of some of those small planes that were just

1969
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:35,200
Speaker 2: absolutely torn apart. And this obviously is really significant in

1970
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:37,760
Speaker 2: and of itself, just given the loss of lives at

1971
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:39,880
Speaker 2: least twenty six people dead that we know of at

1972
01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:42,680
Speaker 2: this point, but it also has raised some real questions

1973
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 2: about the impacts of DOGE cuts and whether there was

1974
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 2: sufficient warning given or whether more lives could have been

1975
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:54,120
Speaker 2: saved if the relevant weather office there, which had experienced

1976
01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:57,680
Speaker 2: these cuts, had been fully staffed. Ryan Hall, who's a

1977
01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:01,519
Speaker 2: fantastic whether YouTuber Kyle's a big weather guy who watches

1978
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,559
Speaker 2: him all the time on YouTube, was astonished that there

1979
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:09,200
Speaker 2: hadn't been sufficient warnings put out at the time as

1980
01:40:09,200 --> 01:40:11,000
Speaker 2: he was covering this live. Let's go ahead and take

1981
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:12,439
Speaker 2: a listen to a little of what he had to say.

1982
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:16,400
Speaker 20: We're talking about here is a big deal.

1983
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 5: I am so.

1984
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,760
Speaker 20: Surprised that we don't have an upgraded warning from the

1985
01:40:22,840 --> 01:40:26,320
Speaker 20: National Weather Service. One of the things that I do

1986
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 20: want to mention is, I'm pretty sure this is the

1987
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:31,439
Speaker 20: National Weather Service in Jackson, Kentucky, my local National Weather

1988
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:34,520
Speaker 20: Service here. This is one of the places that's understaffed

1989
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:36,320
Speaker 20: right now. I don't know if you guys have been

1990
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:38,920
Speaker 20: following the news big layoffs across National Weather Service and

1991
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:42,600
Speaker 20: stuff like that, that might be a result of a

1992
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:48,080
Speaker 20: problem that we're having there. If so, that's crazy. That's crazy.

1993
01:40:48,280 --> 01:40:51,519
Speaker 20: We're about to have a large tornado go through a

1994
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:55,960
Speaker 20: very populated area with much less warning than what there

1995
01:40:55,960 --> 01:41:00,439
Speaker 20: should be as a result of that, guys, all I

1996
01:41:00,479 --> 01:41:02,000
Speaker 20: can tell you right now is if you know anybody

1997
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:05,639
Speaker 20: in Somerset, call them, call them right now and let

1998
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:08,280
Speaker 20: them know what's going on. I'm not kidding like this

1999
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:10,599
Speaker 20: is a big deal. This is a huge deal. We've

2000
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:14,920
Speaker 20: got a massive tornado about to slam through o'kill, Bourbon

2001
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:15,960
Speaker 20: and Ferguson here.

2002
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:18,920
Speaker 2: And he was absolutely right in the dire nature of

2003
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:22,560
Speaker 2: those warnings. That Kentucky Weather Office, they say scrambles for

2004
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 2: staffing is severe storms bear down. New York Times right

2005
01:41:25,320 --> 01:41:27,160
Speaker 2: up here, Washington posts how to write up as well.

2006
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:30,439
Speaker 2: National Weather Service office in eastern Kentucky was scrambling to

2007
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 2: cover the overnight forecast on Friday as these tornadoes were

2008
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 2: moving through much of the eastern US, According to the

2009
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 2: union that represents the department's meteorologist, Tom Fahey, the legislative

2010
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,800
Speaker 2: director for that union, was one of four that no

2011
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 2: longer had a permanent overnight forecaster after hundreds of people

2012
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:48,680
Speaker 2: left the agency as a result of cuts ordered by

2013
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:52,120
Speaker 2: the Department of Government Efficiency. Mister Fahey said on Friday

2014
01:41:52,120 --> 01:41:54,360
Speaker 2: that because of the threat for flooding, hail, and tornadoes

2015
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:57,439
Speaker 2: facing eastern Kentucky, the West Weather Service had to find

2016
01:41:57,479 --> 01:42:00,920
Speaker 2: forecasting help for that office spoke women for the Weather

2017
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,679
Speaker 2: Service said the Jackson's office would be relying on nearby

2018
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:08,680
Speaker 2: offices for support throughout the weekend. So Emily, that's you know,

2019
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 2: the lay of the land here. Now, I will say

2020
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:14,920
Speaker 2: that the government is claiming, no, this did not impact.

2021
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,160
Speaker 2: They were able to fully staff, They were able to

2022
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:19,320
Speaker 2: have the coverage that they need. But you know, it

2023
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:22,800
Speaker 2: certainly raises questions whether lives could have been saved if

2024
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,920
Speaker 2: this office had been fully staffed and not subject to

2025
01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:26,799
Speaker 2: those DOGE cuts.

2026
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:27,200
Speaker 5: It does.

2027
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 3: I mean, there should be an investigation. And I think

2028
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 3: it's crazy, Crystal. I mean, this always happens with tornadoes.

2029
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:36,880
Speaker 3: You lived in Kentucky briefly, I did. Yeah, yeah, so

2030
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:41,679
Speaker 3: you know this. It's whenever there's a snowstorm in New York.

2031
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:44,400
Speaker 3: I actually, like when we I used to teach students,

2032
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:45,960
Speaker 3: I would use this as an example, and never there's

2033
01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:49,200
Speaker 3: a snowstorm in New York, it's national news for days.

2034
01:42:50,640 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 3: A tornado can rip through the Heartland, killed twenty eight

2035
01:42:54,040 --> 01:42:56,639
Speaker 3: people and it's a blip on the national news radar

2036
01:42:57,240 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 3: because most of the newsrooms are in New York, they're

2037
01:43:01,000 --> 01:43:04,240
Speaker 3: in DC, they're in LA and the gutting of local

2038
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:07,680
Speaker 3: media means that there are just a few newsrooms that

2039
01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:11,040
Speaker 3: are kind of concentrated in big cities Saint Louis, for example,

2040
01:43:11,479 --> 01:43:16,000
Speaker 3: throughout the Midwest, but the main producers and editors and

2041
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:19,400
Speaker 3: everything aren't there. And so I mean, this is getting

2042
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:22,679
Speaker 3: to the bottom of whether or not these cuts actually

2043
01:43:23,479 --> 01:43:26,440
Speaker 3: may have actually like resulted.

2044
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 5: In a loss of life.

2045
01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 3: I really hope that national media is sending people, is

2046
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:34,720
Speaker 3: paying attention to the local media, sending people out to

2047
01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:37,360
Speaker 3: get to the bottom of this, because it's a hugely

2048
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:40,599
Speaker 3: significant story. And it's one of those things that when

2049
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:43,120
Speaker 3: you look at Elon Musk in the way he's been

2050
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:47,120
Speaker 3: parading around with the chainsaw at Seapack, for example, that

2051
01:43:47,240 --> 01:43:54,360
Speaker 3: Melee gifted him, it's never been funny. It's just it's

2052
01:43:54,439 --> 01:43:57,719
Speaker 3: not funny. It's eighty percent of federal workers are outside

2053
01:43:57,760 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 3: of DC. And I say that as somebody who loves

2054
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:04,640
Speaker 3: the idea like in theory of doge, but like you're

2055
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 3: actually playing with people's lives. And it'd be one thing

2056
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:11,559
Speaker 3: if the Trump administration had tapped someone like Russ Vote,

2057
01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 3: like a type of like policy person to do it,

2058
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:17,599
Speaker 3: but they went with Elon as the figurehead of it,

2059
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:20,559
Speaker 3: and it just gave the whole project this sense of

2060
01:44:21,439 --> 01:44:23,240
Speaker 3: what's the right word for it, Like, I don't know

2061
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:26,760
Speaker 3: if casualness is the right word, but that bazard Yeah, yeah,

2062
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:29,720
Speaker 3: this sense that like, and he has openly said that

2063
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 3: his strategy involves mass firings and then if you realize

2064
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:35,679
Speaker 3: you need to bring people back, then you bring people back.

2065
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:37,519
Speaker 5: Like that's he said, that's the way to do it.

2066
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:40,600
Speaker 3: Basically is that, like you learn who's essential after you

2067
01:44:40,640 --> 01:44:43,519
Speaker 3: fire them on a nationwide scale. And me, we're talking

2068
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:45,360
Speaker 3: about one of the biggest countries in the world, one

2069
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:48,840
Speaker 3: of the biggest countries that has ever existed, massive piece

2070
01:44:48,880 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 3: of land with a huge population. That's a really really

2071
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:55,879
Speaker 3: really really really dangerous game, and that is obvious to everyone.

2072
01:44:55,960 --> 01:44:56,800
Speaker 5: So I'm really curious.

2073
01:44:56,800 --> 01:44:59,479
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it turns out that you know, they

2074
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:03,120
Speaker 3: were they came in overnight and they staffed up because

2075
01:45:03,120 --> 01:45:05,200
Speaker 3: they realized these storms were going to be bad and

2076
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:07,800
Speaker 3: this would have happened no matter what. Maybe that turns

2077
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:10,360
Speaker 3: out to be the case. But when you juxtapose it

2078
01:45:10,400 --> 01:45:14,200
Speaker 3: with National Weather Service cuts and Elon Musk parading around

2079
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,719
Speaker 3: with the chainsaw, it's a pretty bad look.

2080
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:17,000
Speaker 12: Yeah.

2081
01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:18,600
Speaker 2: Well, and Here's what I would say too, is I

2082
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:21,280
Speaker 2: do think some of the cuts were just completely haphazard.

2083
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:24,679
Speaker 2: But there even with RUSS vote like Project twenty twenty

2084
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:30,559
Speaker 2: five took direct aim at Noah, and there is an

2085
01:45:30,760 --> 01:45:34,400
Speaker 2: ideological project on the right that would like to see

2086
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:38,880
Speaker 2: some of this weather tracking privatized so that we don't all,

2087
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:41,960
Speaker 2: you know, Ryan Hall and everybody else who wants access

2088
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:43,960
Speaker 2: to the data doesn't get access to the data. You

2089
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:46,960
Speaker 2: have to pay for it. There is an ideological agenda

2090
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:50,439
Speaker 2: behind it as well. So it's not just random that

2091
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 2: these offices get hit with cuts. In the National Weather

2092
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:55,879
Speaker 2: Service gets hit with cuts, and you know, Noah overall

2093
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:59,160
Speaker 2: gets hit with cuts. There is also an ideological project

2094
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:02,799
Speaker 2: behind it, and this is the fallout from that project,

2095
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:05,640
Speaker 2: or demonstrates what the potential for the fallout could be

2096
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:07,400
Speaker 2: from that project. There are a lot of things the

2097
01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:09,840
Speaker 2: government does that you know, actually are effective that we

2098
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:11,360
Speaker 2: just don't think about, you know, like.

2099
01:46:12,200 --> 01:46:14,880
Speaker 4: They do track the weather very effectively.

2100
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:17,360
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of resources, it takes a lot

2101
01:46:17,400 --> 01:46:19,880
Speaker 2: of people, it takes you know, these weather balloons going up,

2102
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:22,960
Speaker 2: which also have been cut significantly, but actually they do

2103
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:24,960
Speaker 2: have done a pretty good job at that and that

2104
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 2: is now being put at risk. We see it also,

2105
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:30,040
Speaker 2: you know with the air traffic controllers and the horrific

2106
01:46:30,080 --> 01:46:33,639
Speaker 2: situation you know with the FAA. Again, this is something

2107
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:36,160
Speaker 2: that is a life or death issue that we really

2108
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:39,839
Speaker 2: depend on the federal government for and when it doesn't function.

2109
01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:42,120
Speaker 4: When it does function, you don't think about it too much.

2110
01:46:42,240 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 2: When it doesn't function, suddenly it becomes really front of mind.

2111
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:48,360
Speaker 2: If you want to, you know, go somewhere from Royal

2112
01:46:48,439 --> 01:46:50,840
Speaker 2: Day weekend and be able to actually, you know, get

2113
01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:54,000
Speaker 2: where you're going and not be terrified that what's going

2114
01:46:54,040 --> 01:46:56,880
Speaker 2: to happen when you're trying to land and there's another

2115
01:46:57,200 --> 01:46:58,960
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and put this FEMA piece up on

2116
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 2: the screen because this is you know connected. Obviously, you

2117
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:04,719
Speaker 2: have a newly appointed head of FEMA, and Trump.

2118
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:07,639
Speaker 3: Has been FEMA is a mess, like a mess.

2119
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:08,439
Speaker 4: I think everyone.

2120
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like I think anyone who's been associated with

2121
01:47:12,120 --> 01:47:14,800
Speaker 2: FEMA would have said going into this administration there were

2122
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:17,680
Speaker 2: things that needed to be resolved. Trump has an ideological

2123
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:20,479
Speaker 2: agenda against FEMA at all. He thinks this should be

2124
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,240
Speaker 2: basically dismantled and it should all be sent to the States.

2125
01:47:23,439 --> 01:47:26,960
Speaker 2: Now if you have a minor weather disaster, states may

2126
01:47:26,960 --> 01:47:30,000
Speaker 2: have sufficient funds and resources to handle it. When you're

2127
01:47:30,040 --> 01:47:34,760
Speaker 2: talking about increasing extreme weather events year after year after year,

2128
01:47:35,120 --> 01:47:38,480
Speaker 2: you need the federal government just for you know, resource's

2129
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:41,960
Speaker 2: sake to be able to assist, and states do not

2130
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:46,200
Speaker 2: have the capability to be able to respond. So this

2131
01:47:46,360 --> 01:47:50,280
Speaker 2: is coming, you know this. There was some leaked information

2132
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:53,320
Speaker 2: coming out of FEMA that the newly appointed head says

2133
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 2: the agency does not yet have a fully formed disaster

2134
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:59,479
Speaker 2: response plan going into hurricane season.

2135
01:47:59,720 --> 01:48:00,760
Speaker 4: A little bit of this.

2136
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:03,720
Speaker 2: David Richardson, who previously served as a senior official at

2137
01:48:03,800 --> 01:48:07,000
Speaker 2: DHS does not have a background in emergency management, told

2138
01:48:07,040 --> 01:48:09,800
Speaker 2: staff he would share a hurricane plan with CHRISTINOAM after

2139
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:12,680
Speaker 2: he completes it late next week. He said Thursday, he's

2140
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 2: eighty to eighty five percent done with the plan. Agency

2141
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:17,640
Speaker 2: is already months behind schedule in its preparations for the

2142
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:20,680
Speaker 2: hurricane season, which starts June one and is expected to

2143
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 2: have above normal activity. Richardson said in a recent meeting

2144
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:26,799
Speaker 2: the FEMA staff that clarifying the intent of the president,

2145
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:29,799
Speaker 2: who has called for terminating the agency, was a challenge

2146
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:32,439
Speaker 2: in preparing a strategy for hurricane season. According to a

2147
01:48:32,520 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 2: video recording of the media of the meeting that was

2148
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 2: viewed by the Wall Street Journal, and there was another

2149
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:40,800
Speaker 2: wild quote in here, Emily he was apparently asked during

2150
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:43,760
Speaker 2: this town hall meeting if the will of the president

2151
01:48:44,200 --> 01:48:47,680
Speaker 2: or the will that well being of Americans was more important,

2152
01:48:47,720 --> 01:48:50,759
Speaker 2: and he responded, I think those two things are essentially

2153
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:54,600
Speaker 2: the same. So this is a you know, this is

2154
01:48:54,640 --> 01:48:59,080
Speaker 2: a Trump loyalist, yes man whatever, And FEMA is dramatically

2155
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:02,400
Speaker 2: behind in preparing for the impending hurricane season.

2156
01:49:02,520 --> 01:49:04,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. The Reuters headline three days ago, staff losses and

2157
01:49:04,840 --> 01:49:08,840
Speaker 3: low morale are derailing FEMA hurricane preparations. Internal documents says,

2158
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:11,920
Speaker 3: And then there's another headline this is two days.

2159
01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:12,280
Speaker 5: Ago as well.

2160
01:49:12,400 --> 01:49:18,120
Speaker 3: Trump's firing a FEMA director unsettles GOP. Senators and the

2161
01:49:18,479 --> 01:49:21,840
Speaker 3: Republicans made a big deal, rightfully so of the FEMA

2162
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:23,240
Speaker 3: response after.

2163
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:25,439
Speaker 5: The hurricanes Helene.

2164
01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:30,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, after Helene, North Carolina, last South Carolina last fall,

2165
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:34,960
Speaker 3: that was I mean reasonable, Everyone was right to be

2166
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:38,840
Speaker 3: outraged about the FEMA response there. So if the FEMA

2167
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:41,160
Speaker 3: response to these tornadoes, which have now killed what twenty

2168
01:49:41,160 --> 01:49:45,519
Speaker 3: eight people, is lacking, Trump is going to hear from

2169
01:49:45,600 --> 01:49:47,960
Speaker 3: the senators in those states, Republican senators in those states.

2170
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:48,880
Speaker 5: He's going to hear.

2171
01:49:48,760 --> 01:49:53,240
Speaker 3: From the governors in those states, Republican governors in those states.

2172
01:49:53,240 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 3: And what's interesting, Crystal is that's the type of thing

2173
01:49:56,040 --> 01:50:00,800
Speaker 3: that will start to change the prem mission structure for

2174
01:50:00,840 --> 01:50:04,559
Speaker 3: DOGE and for massive cuts. If Republicans are saying the

2175
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 3: way you were going about, these cuts are worse than

2176
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:10,519
Speaker 3: just continuing to spend at the same level, Yeah, which

2177
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 3: is not impossible.

2178
01:50:11,439 --> 01:50:13,400
Speaker 5: By the way. That's the thing, like you can again,

2179
01:50:13,439 --> 01:50:13,720
Speaker 5: like I.

2180
01:50:13,640 --> 01:50:17,000
Speaker 3: Support the idea of DOGE in theory, and I would

2181
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 3: say like in some cases these cuts are like if

2182
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:23,759
Speaker 3: they you can still end up when you're making cuts

2183
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:26,800
Speaker 3: that are necessary or that I think are necessary from

2184
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:30,160
Speaker 3: a perspective of like just a more limited government perspective,

2185
01:50:30,200 --> 01:50:32,360
Speaker 3: you look at them and you say, the cuts themselves

2186
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:36,360
Speaker 3: can be worse than the alternative status quo because they're.

2187
01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:37,719
Speaker 5: Done in a way that is cruel.

2188
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,080
Speaker 3: And one thing I wanted to mention is if you

2189
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:44,640
Speaker 3: are in DC, you don't understand how important the emergency

2190
01:50:44,720 --> 01:50:48,639
Speaker 3: warning systems are for tornadoes and saving lives because people

2191
01:50:48,680 --> 01:50:51,519
Speaker 3: rely on them to make a judgment about where to go,

2192
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:55,759
Speaker 3: what to do? Do they get out of the soccer

2193
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:58,720
Speaker 3: car pool and go home right away? Is it that

2194
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:02,559
Speaker 3: serious or are they up ending, you know, everyone's routine

2195
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,160
Speaker 3: for something that's not serious at all. The warnings are

2196
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:07,040
Speaker 3: important to that if you live in the Midwest or

2197
01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:09,720
Speaker 3: in the South, or in an area with tornadoes, and

2198
01:51:09,720 --> 01:51:11,920
Speaker 3: if you don't understand that, and you're just saying we

2199
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:15,559
Speaker 3: will fire people, then we will learn and hire anybody

2200
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:19,320
Speaker 3: who's necessary. People get caught and fall through the cracks,

2201
01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:20,559
Speaker 3: and tragedy happens.

2202
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:24,920
Speaker 2: And some of his strongest supporters, like in terms of states,

2203
01:51:25,240 --> 01:51:29,320
Speaker 2: have already been impacted by the denial of FEMA assistants,

2204
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:34,400
Speaker 2: so flooding in West Virginia. FEMA denied assistance for windstorm

2205
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,800
Speaker 2: damage in Washington, not a Trump's state, but FEMA staff

2206
01:51:37,800 --> 01:51:40,559
Speaker 2: said there's no longer a clear process for assessing assistance

2207
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:43,280
Speaker 2: requests from states. Their concerned disaster victims aren't get the

2208
01:51:43,280 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 2: help they need. In Arkansas, they were initially denied funds,

2209
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:49,679
Speaker 2: but Sarah Huckevee Sanders is now the governor of Arkansas,

2210
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:51,719
Speaker 2: so she was able to go to Trump and say, please,

2211
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:54,960
Speaker 2: we need these funds and eventually they were able to

2212
01:51:55,040 --> 01:51:58,479
Speaker 2: they relented. But if you don't happen to have a

2213
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:02,200
Speaker 2: personal relationship with a apparently are our sovereign monarch now,

2214
01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 2: then you you know, then your residents are going to

2215
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:08,160
Speaker 2: get screwed, including you know, in a state like West Virginia,

2216
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:11,200
Speaker 2: which I covered here, that flooding was apocalypt It's the

2217
01:52:11,240 --> 01:52:14,280
Speaker 2: worst they've ever seen the level of disaster, and it

2218
01:52:14,360 --> 01:52:17,880
Speaker 2: hit the poorest part of an already poor state which

2219
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:21,240
Speaker 2: has been screwed over and left behind, you know, many

2220
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:25,680
Speaker 2: times over and so denied assistance for flooding. There is

2221
01:52:25,800 --> 01:52:28,519
Speaker 2: you know it honestly, to me, it shocks the conscience.

2222
01:52:28,600 --> 01:52:30,920
Speaker 2: But this is the direction that they have gone in,

2223
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:33,320
Speaker 2: and they put in just you know, a Trump scaphan

2224
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:36,680
Speaker 2: and the head of this agency who was apparently unprepared

2225
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:40,000
Speaker 2: for the hurricane season. So you know, it's it's very

2226
01:52:40,520 --> 01:52:44,320
Speaker 2: it's unsettling. It's very unsettling to see things that were

2227
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:47,040
Speaker 2: previously taken for granted. And again not to say FEMA

2228
01:52:47,120 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 2: was great or perfect. We've all seen, you know, what

2229
01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:51,759
Speaker 2: happened with Katrina. We saw the inadequacy of a response

2230
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:54,960
Speaker 2: in Helene et cetera. But once again you're taking something

2231
01:52:55,000 --> 01:52:58,920
Speaker 2: that needed work and you are eliminated and eliminating it.

2232
01:52:59,040 --> 01:53:01,040
Speaker 4: Entirely or making vastly worse.

2233
01:53:01,080 --> 01:53:03,479
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, this is an indication of

2234
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 2: potential things to come.

2235
01:53:04,560 --> 01:53:08,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, with a tone of flippancy and you know, job reality,

2236
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:12,240
Speaker 3: like it's just all a chainsaw game, Which is probably

2237
01:53:12,280 --> 01:53:16,080
Speaker 3: why Ela Musk has stepped into the background, because they realized.

2238
01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:17,400
Speaker 5: Quiet lately it wasn't.

2239
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:21,040
Speaker 2: He's devoting its time to reprogramming GROC to talk about

2240
01:53:21,280 --> 01:53:23,920
Speaker 2: white genocide and deny the Holocaust apparently is what he's

2241
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:24,640
Speaker 2: spending his time doing.

2242
01:53:24,680 --> 01:53:25,960
Speaker 5: Now, let's get all kinds of stuff to do.

2243
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, as a man, Crystal, let's move on to the system.

2244
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:32,320
Speaker 5: Is so interesting.

2245
01:53:32,320 --> 01:53:34,920
Speaker 3: I'm really excited about Argent Singh, who joins us to

2246
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:38,719
Speaker 3: talk about the history of how Republicans became an anti

2247
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 3: tax party, fundamentalist anti tax party, and what that means

2248
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:42,599
Speaker 3: for today.

2249
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:46,280
Speaker 2: So, guys, Trump's big beautiful bill passed a clear, cleared

2250
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:48,080
Speaker 2: and important hurdle in the House.

2251
01:53:48,120 --> 01:53:49,519
Speaker 4: I can put us up on the screen.

2252
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:53,599
Speaker 2: The Tax and Immigration Bill clears hurdle after late night vote.

2253
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,280
Speaker 2: It had previously failed in committee, and a late night

2254
01:53:56,360 --> 01:53:59,920
Speaker 2: vote was able to pass after some Republican dissenters just

2255
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:02,719
Speaker 2: voted present, so it can make it out of committee.

2256
01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 2: All of that is a long way of saying this

2257
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:06,320
Speaker 2: bill still has a long way to go before it

2258
01:54:06,400 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 2: actually is efectuated into law. But at the center of

2259
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:13,080
Speaker 2: the bill is a big old tax cut for the rich,

2260
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:18,040
Speaker 2: doubling down on Trump's key priority accomplishment from his first administration.

2261
01:54:18,120 --> 01:54:19,920
Speaker 4: So joining us now to discuss.

2262
01:54:19,640 --> 01:54:24,120
Speaker 2: How the Republican Party became this anti tax juggernaut is

2263
01:54:24,280 --> 01:54:27,160
Speaker 2: Argent saying with lever News, and you guys have a

2264
01:54:27,160 --> 01:54:30,479
Speaker 2: new podcast series out called Tax Revolt, which tracks the

2265
01:54:30,520 --> 01:54:31,120
Speaker 2: history of.

2266
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:33,160
Speaker 4: The anti tax movement. So great to see, Argente.

2267
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:34,360
Speaker 6: Yes, thank you for having me.

2268
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:36,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, so we can put you two up

2269
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:37,080
Speaker 4: on the screen.

2270
01:54:37,320 --> 01:54:40,600
Speaker 2: That's just the logo, so you guys can see here's

2271
01:54:40,720 --> 01:54:43,600
Speaker 2: Tax Revolts. We've got four part series. And let's go

2272
01:54:43,600 --> 01:54:45,640
Speaker 2: ahead and take a listen to a little bit of

2273
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:47,400
Speaker 2: the trailer to set this up for everybody.

2274
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 12: All taxes are bad. The power to tax is the

2275
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:52,800
Speaker 12: power to destroy.

2276
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:54,400
Speaker 17: Some are worse than others.

2277
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 16: We have a new revolution against the tax, tax, tax

2278
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:00,800
Speaker 16: spends and spend.

2279
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 6: The mindset of diehard tax cutters has dominated politics since the.

2280
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:10,040
Speaker 3: Nineteen eighties, and today cutting taxes is practically a religious

2281
01:55:10,080 --> 01:55:12,520
Speaker 3: mandate in conservative politics.

2282
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:16,040
Speaker 21: And government agencies like the irs are partisan battlegrounds.

2283
01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:18,640
Speaker 12: The dream in America is not to make the rich poor.

2284
01:55:18,640 --> 01:55:21,000
Speaker 12: The dream is to make the poor rich. The era

2285
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:22,920
Speaker 12: of big government is over.

2286
01:55:23,400 --> 01:55:26,680
Speaker 2: Don't hurt the top, and if you're gonna fight rich people,

2287
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 2: you're gonna lose.

2288
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 21: From the landmark California tax revolt to Trump's latest push

2289
01:55:31,600 --> 01:55:34,880
Speaker 21: to cut taxes for the rich, this movement claimed to

2290
01:55:34,920 --> 01:55:38,720
Speaker 21: fight for the average American, but really deepened inequality and

2291
01:55:38,840 --> 01:55:40,080
Speaker 21: helped the rich get richer.

2292
01:55:40,680 --> 01:55:43,200
Speaker 6: This is the story of how a small but powerful

2293
01:55:43,240 --> 01:55:47,000
Speaker 6: movement reshaped our economy, weakened our democracy, and left the

2294
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:49,400
Speaker 6: government scrambling to serve the people it was.

2295
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:50,240
Speaker 15: Meant to protect.

2296
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:52,360
Speaker 12: But that's not the way the world is.

2297
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:52,800
Speaker 5: Guys.

2298
01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:54,760
Speaker 2: Do you want to sit there and scream and holler

2299
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:56,440
Speaker 2: and hate rich people and lose every election.

2300
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:59,480
Speaker 4: It is time for a wealth tax.

2301
01:55:59,280 --> 01:55:59,920
Speaker 15: And a mirror.

2302
01:56:01,160 --> 01:56:04,480
Speaker 12: You'll lose everything. If you don't lose the election, you'll

2303
01:56:04,520 --> 01:56:05,960
Speaker 12: lose the country.

2304
01:56:06,040 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 2: So I like the description there of tax cutting as

2305
01:56:08,760 --> 01:56:12,200
Speaker 2: an almost religious mandate, because at this point, you have

2306
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:16,320
Speaker 2: a broad national coalition, really quite bipartisan at the grassroots

2307
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:20,000
Speaker 2: level in favor of taxing the rich more, and yet

2308
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,440
Speaker 2: you still have the Republican Party going in the polar

2309
01:56:22,480 --> 01:56:23,840
Speaker 2: opposite direction. Yeah.

2310
01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:25,800
Speaker 16: And one of the funny things that we actually talk

2311
01:56:25,880 --> 01:56:27,680
Speaker 16: about in this series is that when you get to

2312
01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 16: the nineteen eighties, when Reaganomics is becoming very popular, Democrats

2313
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:34,200
Speaker 16: vote for Reagan's bills. Tip O'Neil's Speaker of the House.

2314
01:56:34,240 --> 01:56:36,960
Speaker 16: Reagan's got these Democratic legislators, and part of the reason

2315
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:38,640
Speaker 16: that Democrats are on board with it is they hear

2316
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:41,840
Speaker 16: from their own constituents how upsetting it is to see

2317
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:44,280
Speaker 16: how easy it is to gain the tax code. They're

2318
01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 16: saying that our rich friends who have fancy accountants can

2319
01:56:47,880 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 16: do all these loopholes. The tax code is so complex, now,

2320
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:54,280
Speaker 16: why don't we get any relief just because we have

2321
01:56:54,320 --> 01:56:57,440
Speaker 16: to pay our taxes like suckers. And the Democratic response was,

2322
01:56:57,640 --> 01:57:00,560
Speaker 16: you're right, the tax code is too e to game,

2323
01:57:00,760 --> 01:57:02,800
Speaker 16: and so we'll bring down your tax rates. And they

2324
01:57:02,840 --> 01:57:05,040
Speaker 16: tried to fix some of the loopholes. But as we

2325
01:57:05,080 --> 01:57:07,520
Speaker 16: know through history, the winners of all of that was

2326
01:57:07,600 --> 01:57:10,560
Speaker 16: the business community and corporate interests who managed to bring

2327
01:57:10,600 --> 01:57:13,880
Speaker 16: everybody's taxes down and also take their taxes down to

2328
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:16,600
Speaker 16: the point that some billionaires don't even pay taxes, they

2329
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:19,280
Speaker 16: pay negative taxes they earn from government subsidies.

2330
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:21,720
Speaker 5: Believable. Well, yeah, let's keep pulling at this threat of religion.

2331
01:57:21,760 --> 01:57:24,600
Speaker 3: Actually, because this is one on the right, we're seeing

2332
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:27,640
Speaker 3: what on the right is the fading of what's called fusionism,

2333
01:57:27,680 --> 01:57:31,160
Speaker 3: which is the three legged schools Frank Meyer a whole

2334
01:57:31,160 --> 01:57:34,960
Speaker 3: thing basically as it combines limited government, social conservatism, and neoconservatism,

2335
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:39,960
Speaker 3: and that's completely falling apart at this moment. Maybe it'll reconstruct,

2336
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:42,839
Speaker 3: but at this part, at this point, it's really difficult

2337
01:57:42,840 --> 01:57:45,400
Speaker 3: for the publican party to maintain that coalition. So, as

2338
01:57:45,480 --> 01:57:47,360
Speaker 3: you went back through history, can you can maybe tell

2339
01:57:47,440 --> 01:57:50,320
Speaker 3: us a little bit about what it was like as

2340
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:56,080
Speaker 3: the Milton Friedman wing coalesced with the social conservatives and

2341
01:57:56,080 --> 01:57:58,840
Speaker 3: the neo conservatives. It's such an interesting marriage, especially between

2342
01:57:58,840 --> 01:58:03,360
Speaker 3: neo conservatives and Milton Friedman types, because the Reagan eras

2343
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:07,320
Speaker 3: saw massive spending on defense and at the same time

2344
01:58:07,480 --> 01:58:08,680
Speaker 3: there was this mandate.

2345
01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:09,120
Speaker 5: For tax cuts.

2346
01:58:09,160 --> 01:58:11,200
Speaker 3: It's sort of similar to what we see people talking

2347
01:58:11,200 --> 01:58:11,880
Speaker 3: about right now.

2348
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:14,880
Speaker 16: Absolutely, I'm so glad that you distell that like that,

2349
01:58:14,920 --> 01:58:16,800
Speaker 16: because that is one of the most fascinating things that

2350
01:58:16,840 --> 01:58:19,120
Speaker 16: I came out from the series is that the Republican

2351
01:58:19,160 --> 01:58:23,040
Speaker 16: Coalition is kind of a Frankenstein monster of different groups

2352
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:26,040
Speaker 16: that have made alliances with each other, but when it

2353
01:58:26,080 --> 01:58:28,840
Speaker 16: comes down to it, do end up being on different

2354
01:58:28,920 --> 01:58:30,480
Speaker 16: ends of the issues. So when we start in the

2355
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:33,400
Speaker 16: nineteen seventies, you have the post Watergate era and you

2356
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:37,440
Speaker 16: have stagflation happening, high uninflated, high unemployment, and high on

2357
01:58:37,840 --> 01:58:40,960
Speaker 16: and high inflation. You want to which I think is

2358
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:44,680
Speaker 16: what everybody which is what's happening, But no, you had stagflation,

2359
01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:46,400
Speaker 16: which was the worst of the worst, and so you

2360
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:51,000
Speaker 16: had an economic crisis. You had people actually seeing real

2361
01:58:51,080 --> 01:58:54,280
Speaker 16: pain paying their taxes because their money was getting cheaper

2362
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:56,880
Speaker 16: and cheaper by the day. And what you see entering

2363
01:58:56,920 --> 01:58:59,920
Speaker 16: that is different groups of conservatives trying to take it

2364
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:01,920
Speaker 16: advantage of that. So you have the people from the

2365
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:04,320
Speaker 16: business community who say, listen, let's just knock down the

2366
01:59:04,360 --> 01:59:07,600
Speaker 16: whole tax code. Free market capitalism, you know, this is

2367
01:59:07,640 --> 01:59:10,120
Speaker 16: the way everyone's going to prosper. That would be kind

2368
01:59:10,120 --> 01:59:12,120
Speaker 16: of like the art laughers who we heard in the

2369
01:59:12,120 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 16: trailer just now, the godfathers supply side economics, you know,

2370
01:59:15,880 --> 01:59:17,680
Speaker 16: will take them at kind of face value that if

2371
01:59:17,680 --> 01:59:20,520
Speaker 16: this is what they believe, they believe that low taxation

2372
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:22,960
Speaker 16: will lead to so much prosperity, you don't really need

2373
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:25,480
Speaker 16: a government to play the role of an administrative state.

2374
01:59:25,960 --> 01:59:30,280
Speaker 16: Those people find alliances with another group of conservatives who

2375
01:59:30,280 --> 01:59:34,160
Speaker 16: are seeing integration happening, who are seeing changing social values,

2376
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:37,240
Speaker 16: and they're seeing a Democratic party in a government that

2377
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 16: they feel is becoming too tolerant of women and minorities,

2378
01:59:41,400 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 16: and that a lot of the white working class people

2379
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:47,120
Speaker 16: are being left behind. And in our first episode we

2380
01:59:47,120 --> 01:59:50,080
Speaker 16: talked about Howard Jarvis in California in nineteen seventy eight.

2381
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:52,760
Speaker 16: He gets this ballot proposition on there that says, let's

2382
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:55,400
Speaker 16: just cap the property tax, and he messages both of

2383
01:59:55,440 --> 01:59:59,160
Speaker 16: those things, isn't the government bloated? Aren't the bureaucrats overpaid?

2384
01:59:59,280 --> 02:00:02,840
Speaker 16: Isn't your tax Aren't your taxes too high? And he

2385
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:05,880
Speaker 16: would also say to certain people, should your taxes pay

2386
02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 16: for school integration? Should your taxes pay for a social

2387
02:00:09,760 --> 02:00:13,080
Speaker 16: educational system that is slowly moving away from you? And

2388
02:00:13,120 --> 02:00:15,800
Speaker 16: he merges these two things together, and we talk about

2389
02:00:15,880 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 16: Newt Gingrich the same year, nineteen seventy eight, that's when

2390
02:00:18,400 --> 02:00:21,200
Speaker 16: he wins his selection to Congress. He sees the potency

2391
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:24,600
Speaker 16: of the practicality of telling people you don't have to

2392
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:26,840
Speaker 16: pay as much anymore. A lot of people vibe with

2393
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:30,040
Speaker 16: that message, but he sees an undercurrent of people who

2394
02:00:30,080 --> 02:00:32,960
Speaker 16: are starting to view the federal government as something that

2395
02:00:33,000 --> 02:00:36,120
Speaker 16: they should be opposed to, that's an enemy to them.

2396
02:00:36,120 --> 02:00:39,480
Speaker 16: In the nineteen seventies, Jimmy Carter's IRS was withholding tax

2397
02:00:39,520 --> 02:00:43,600
Speaker 16: exem status from schools that refuse to integrate violating court orders.

2398
02:00:43,960 --> 02:00:47,080
Speaker 16: In this period nineteen seventy eight gain Rich, but also

2399
02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:49,920
Speaker 16: you know people like Howard Jarvis and California that started

2400
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:53,160
Speaker 16: the ANTIIRS movement, which they said, the tax collectors are

2401
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:57,040
Speaker 16: a tool of an ideologically driven government. Your taxes going

2402
02:00:57,080 --> 02:01:00,480
Speaker 16: to them is helping an ideological battle, not just funding

2403
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:04,200
Speaker 16: kind of the base social services that were pretty popular

2404
02:01:04,240 --> 02:01:06,400
Speaker 16: and that a lot of Republicans agreed with too, because,

2405
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:09,240
Speaker 16: like you said, Republicans like George Herbert Walker Bush and

2406
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:12,960
Speaker 16: Ronald Reagan wanted strong military, they wanted more spending on

2407
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:17,400
Speaker 16: the on defense, So they wanted government.

2408
02:01:16,960 --> 02:01:17,560
Speaker 6: To do things.

2409
02:01:17,640 --> 02:01:20,760
Speaker 16: They just didn't like the intrusion of government on the

2410
02:01:20,800 --> 02:01:24,640
Speaker 16: tax codes, certainly taking big business as profits. And so

2411
02:01:25,320 --> 02:01:27,440
Speaker 16: that's kind of what the series leads up to. And

2412
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:30,760
Speaker 16: by the nineteen nineties, when Newt Gingrich gets into office,

2413
02:01:31,240 --> 02:01:35,520
Speaker 16: the movement of conservatives has become so fractured that the

2414
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:39,960
Speaker 16: Pat Buchanan hard proto Trump conservatives now they have a

2415
02:01:39,960 --> 02:01:42,640
Speaker 16: lot more influence over this party, and they're saying Ronald

2416
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:46,760
Speaker 16: Reagan's too moderate because he compromised with Democrats, and George

2417
02:01:46,760 --> 02:01:49,320
Speaker 16: Bush is of course way too moderate because he would

2418
02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:52,520
Speaker 16: even consider raising taxes. And they see new Gingrid shut

2419
02:01:52,520 --> 02:01:54,840
Speaker 16: down the government and they say, this is what we're

2420
02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:59,280
Speaker 16: all about, aggression, hostility, and the movement takes a hard

2421
02:01:59,320 --> 02:02:01,480
Speaker 16: turn to the right right there. And it's not to

2422
02:02:01,480 --> 02:02:04,240
Speaker 16: say that the entire Republican Party believes like this. I

2423
02:02:04,280 --> 02:02:07,920
Speaker 16: think that the Republican Civil War is still happening right now. Yeah,

2424
02:02:08,120 --> 02:02:11,000
Speaker 16: But that is how this tax issue then mores into

2425
02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:13,839
Speaker 16: what we see right now, which is you have whole

2426
02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:18,160
Speaker 16: anti government forces, people who saw Waco in Oklahoma City saying,

2427
02:02:18,200 --> 02:02:21,200
Speaker 16: you know what, the government is taking away our rights

2428
02:02:21,200 --> 02:02:23,440
Speaker 16: and it is a frightening force. And if our taxes

2429
02:02:23,480 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 16: defund the government, more power to that. And that's by

2430
02:02:26,520 --> 02:02:29,120
Speaker 16: the way, Grover Norquiz do we interview in our last episode.

2431
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:32,040
Speaker 6: He's that faction of the conservative movement.

2432
02:02:32,440 --> 02:02:34,120
Speaker 16: Art Laugher, who we heard on the trailer is the

2433
02:02:34,120 --> 02:02:37,680
Speaker 16: other side, which he says, low taxes equals prosperity. But

2434
02:02:37,800 --> 02:02:40,720
Speaker 16: he'll message all these kind of pro government values.

2435
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:41,480
Speaker 5: Interesting.

2436
02:02:41,600 --> 02:02:44,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, no coincidence, by the way, that happened during

2437
02:02:44,320 --> 02:02:46,640
Speaker 3: the fall of the Soviet Union just that time when

2438
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:48,760
Speaker 3: in the early nineties.

2439
02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a fantastic point, and so sort of bring

2440
02:02:51,680 --> 02:02:54,920
Speaker 2: us to today. I mean, on the one hand, again,

2441
02:02:55,120 --> 02:02:58,040
Speaker 2: this four trillion dollar tax cut for the rich centerpiece

2442
02:02:58,080 --> 02:03:00,560
Speaker 2: of the Trump agenda, he sort of flowed like, oh,

2443
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:02,919
Speaker 2: maybe I won't cut taxes as much on the millionaires

2444
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:05,040
Speaker 2: with an He backed off of that immediately when it

2445
02:03:05,040 --> 02:03:07,560
Speaker 2: became clear that he'd actually have to exert some pressure

2446
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:09,520
Speaker 2: to get that to happen. He wasn't all that interested

2447
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:11,840
Speaker 2: in doing it to start with. On the other hand,

2448
02:03:12,200 --> 02:03:14,880
Speaker 2: you know, in the time period that you're covering, they

2449
02:03:14,920 --> 02:03:17,160
Speaker 2: really were on the offense. They felt very confident in

2450
02:03:17,200 --> 02:03:20,520
Speaker 2: their messaging. Now you can see from Steve Bannon and

2451
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:23,240
Speaker 2: others that they realize this. If they're going to really

2452
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:25,560
Speaker 2: position themselves as this populist party, it's a little bit

2453
02:03:25,560 --> 02:03:27,000
Speaker 2: of a problem for them. They're at odds with their

2454
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:29,880
Speaker 2: own voters, let alone the national conversation. So kind of

2455
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:32,040
Speaker 2: where is the anti tax movement today?

2456
02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:35,120
Speaker 16: I think the anti tax movement is still very powerful

2457
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 16: because of things like Elon Musk and Doge, and that

2458
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:40,560
Speaker 16: is that they are taking the rhetoric that the government's

2459
02:03:40,600 --> 02:03:43,880
Speaker 16: a hostile action and dialing it up to eleven. And

2460
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:46,600
Speaker 16: as we talked about in the series, when you message

2461
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:49,960
Speaker 16: that rhetoric in an era where people are already dissatisfied

2462
02:03:50,000 --> 02:03:52,000
Speaker 16: with their government, they feel let down by it and

2463
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:55,480
Speaker 16: they're frustrated, you can get people who initially were pro

2464
02:03:55,520 --> 02:03:58,200
Speaker 16: government agreeing with you that you know, the government is

2465
02:03:58,280 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 16: doing negative things.

2466
02:04:00,160 --> 02:04:02,000
Speaker 6: I think the biggest contract is.

2467
02:04:02,000 --> 02:04:02,640
Speaker 4: A big part of that.

2468
02:04:02,920 --> 02:04:03,760
Speaker 12: Guy is a big.

2469
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:05,840
Speaker 16: Part of that. I think the big thing that the

2470
02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:07,960
Speaker 16: Steve Bannon thing is trying to do is he's trying

2471
02:04:07,960 --> 02:04:10,640
Speaker 16: to make more language of the progressive left and the

2472
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:14,560
Speaker 16: left wing and hoping that left wing allies will also say, hey,

2473
02:04:14,720 --> 02:04:19,000
Speaker 16: isn't this the future, we should be no taxation on

2474
02:04:19,120 --> 02:04:23,360
Speaker 16: everybody else, but putting some taxes on the wealthy. And

2475
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:25,920
Speaker 16: I think that the anti tax movement is realizing. The

2476
02:04:25,920 --> 02:04:28,960
Speaker 16: Republican Party was never a good vehicle if that was

2477
02:04:29,000 --> 02:04:31,720
Speaker 16: the kind of politics that you wanted to espouse. The

2478
02:04:32,280 --> 02:04:35,800
Speaker 16: more progressive Bernie Standers style of politics vibes a little

2479
02:04:35,840 --> 02:04:38,200
Speaker 16: bit more with that. So the anti tax movement is

2480
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:40,920
Speaker 16: still clearly very strong. Because Trump himself got scared by

2481
02:04:40,960 --> 02:04:44,880
Speaker 16: his own statement of putting taxes on multi millionaires, and

2482
02:04:44,920 --> 02:04:47,320
Speaker 16: I think the quickness with which he kind of pulled

2483
02:04:47,320 --> 02:04:50,600
Speaker 16: that back, and even his Trump his Truth social posts

2484
02:04:50,600 --> 02:04:53,280
Speaker 16: where he was like, I'll put the taxes on there,

2485
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:55,240
Speaker 16: but if they don't want to, I'll still be okay

2486
02:04:55,320 --> 02:04:55,600
Speaker 16: with it.

2487
02:04:55,600 --> 02:04:56,560
Speaker 12: It might be a good idea.

2488
02:04:56,600 --> 02:05:00,000
Speaker 6: You can see his hesitancy and how powerful the entrend

2489
02:05:00,240 --> 02:05:02,680
Speaker 6: interest that run the party really are.

2490
02:05:02,760 --> 02:05:05,640
Speaker 16: And that's the struggle for the Trump administration. He's tried

2491
02:05:05,640 --> 02:05:09,080
Speaker 16: to tailt his base towards the populist working class base,

2492
02:05:09,480 --> 02:05:11,480
Speaker 16: which was the Democratic base for a long time, and

2493
02:05:11,520 --> 02:05:15,960
Speaker 16: he's seeing why Democrats politically found favor when they would

2494
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:17,520
Speaker 16: raise taxes on the wealthy.

2495
02:05:17,600 --> 02:05:19,960
Speaker 6: That was their base. So that's the base he wants

2496
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:22,080
Speaker 6: to have, but the party is still dictated by the

2497
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:23,440
Speaker 6: entrenched corporate interests.

2498
02:05:23,520 --> 02:05:23,680
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2499
02:05:23,720 --> 02:05:26,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's the problem for Grover spent decades.

2500
02:05:26,400 --> 02:05:30,320
Speaker 3: He spent decades on this like anti tax, you know,

2501
02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:33,480
Speaker 3: hard line. Yeah you said, and he bullied everyone into

2502
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:35,200
Speaker 3: a signing. I shouldn't say bullied. I mean everyone was

2503
02:05:35,240 --> 02:05:35,800
Speaker 3: doing it willingly.

2504
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:38,560
Speaker 6: Sign He was quite the bully that It sounds like,

2505
02:05:38,600 --> 02:05:39,800
Speaker 6: oh yeah, that'd.

2506
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:40,120
Speaker 5: Be a bully.

2507
02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:42,880
Speaker 3: But when you know they have an opportunity to do

2508
02:05:42,920 --> 02:05:45,920
Speaker 3: a big tax bill in twenty seventeen and Paul Ryan

2509
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:47,840
Speaker 3: saying we're gonna get your taxes down to a postcard,

2510
02:05:47,880 --> 02:05:50,600
Speaker 3: it's going to look like something like a flat tax.

2511
02:05:50,600 --> 02:05:53,920
Speaker 3: Well that never happens because the corporate interests need there

2512
02:05:53,960 --> 02:05:58,000
Speaker 3: to be significant tax rates still to fund defense spending,

2513
02:05:58,200 --> 02:06:01,320
Speaker 3: to fund all that other corporate fair And that's what

2514
02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:04,920
Speaker 3: Grebern Norquist and the anti tax crusaders, who genuinely do

2515
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:09,120
Speaker 3: believe in limited government and extremely limited taxes, they've ended

2516
02:06:09,160 --> 02:06:12,560
Speaker 3: up sort of being the vehicle for corporate interests to

2517
02:06:12,600 --> 02:06:13,800
Speaker 3: continue the welfare's bigot.

2518
02:06:13,920 --> 02:06:16,840
Speaker 16: Yeah, the flat tax debate is really interesting to me

2519
02:06:16,960 --> 02:06:19,000
Speaker 16: because you know, I will say that when I sat

2520
02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:21,160
Speaker 16: down with Grover Norquist. There are people on the anti

2521
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:25,320
Speaker 16: tax side who seem to genuinely believe just a complicated.

2522
02:06:24,720 --> 02:06:26,320
Speaker 12: Tax code is bad. Yeah, that's right.

2523
02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:28,920
Speaker 16: Need it will lead to people gaming the system, which

2524
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:33,200
Speaker 16: it completely has, and it's unfair to people who don't

2525
02:06:33,200 --> 02:06:36,160
Speaker 16: have the means or the knowledge base to understand what

2526
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:38,760
Speaker 16: all the complicated tax code means. And I think that's

2527
02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:42,400
Speaker 16: why tax cutting a flat tax became a really salient message,

2528
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:44,160
Speaker 16: which is that if you're trying to live your life,

2529
02:06:44,440 --> 02:06:47,120
Speaker 16: you have your full time job, you have your family,

2530
02:06:47,480 --> 02:06:49,280
Speaker 16: and if someone says to you, do you just want

2531
02:06:49,320 --> 02:06:50,920
Speaker 16: to pay a simple tax code and know that the

2532
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:53,520
Speaker 16: code is fair, that you know your neighbor who's an

2533
02:06:53,560 --> 02:06:57,440
Speaker 16: accountant who knows the system is paying less just because

2534
02:06:57,480 --> 02:07:01,600
Speaker 16: they have that knowledge base. That's a really powerful message.

2535
02:07:01,640 --> 02:07:04,920
Speaker 16: But again, the flat rate cutters, and a lot of

2536
02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:06,880
Speaker 16: them like to talk about Ronald Reagan, they're like, Ronald

2537
02:07:06,960 --> 02:07:09,120
Speaker 16: Reagan was our hero, he was gonna do that, but

2538
02:07:09,280 --> 02:07:12,920
Speaker 16: you know, everybody else made the tax code more complicated. Well,

2539
02:07:13,240 --> 02:07:16,400
Speaker 16: the story of Republican politics, and you know, arguably democratic

2540
02:07:16,440 --> 02:07:20,240
Speaker 16: politics too, is that the powerful interest whenever you offer

2541
02:07:20,320 --> 02:07:22,640
Speaker 16: a tax cut are going to be able to find

2542
02:07:23,040 --> 02:07:25,080
Speaker 16: what they can do. They used to call the hallway

2543
02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:27,400
Speaker 16: outside of the Senate Budget Writing Room in the eighties

2544
02:07:27,440 --> 02:07:30,320
Speaker 16: Gucci Gulch because Bob Dole came out and he saw

2545
02:07:30,520 --> 02:07:34,000
Speaker 16: all the tax lobbyists wearing Gucci shoes and suits, and

2546
02:07:34,040 --> 02:07:36,120
Speaker 16: he would say, it's Gucci to Gucci in the whole way.

2547
02:07:37,080 --> 02:07:37,920
Speaker 5: Gucci.

2548
02:07:38,040 --> 02:07:40,200
Speaker 16: Yeah, and that's who wrote the nineteen eighty six tax

2549
02:07:40,200 --> 02:07:40,919
Speaker 16: cut bill.

2550
02:07:40,920 --> 02:07:42,440
Speaker 4: There you go. That says it all right.

2551
02:07:42,480 --> 02:07:42,640
Speaker 3: There.

2552
02:07:43,000 --> 02:07:44,840
Speaker 2: Tell people where they can find the series and take

2553
02:07:44,880 --> 02:07:45,720
Speaker 2: a listen so you can.

2554
02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:47,760
Speaker 16: Find it wherever you get your podcasts. Our website is

2555
02:07:47,840 --> 02:07:50,040
Speaker 16: levernews dot com and if you start Tax Revolt in

2556
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:53,120
Speaker 16: your podcast players and lever time, you will find our podcast.

2557
02:07:53,200 --> 02:07:54,480
Speaker 4: Fantastic. Good to see you, Thank you.

2558
02:07:54,560 --> 02:07:55,760
Speaker 12: Yeah too, Thanks for having me.

2559
02:07:55,920 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 4: You're pleasure all right, guys. That does it for us.

2560
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:00,160
Speaker 2: We are going to do an AMA live today, so

2561
02:08:00,160 --> 02:08:02,400
Speaker 2: if you want to be part of future amas, make

2562
02:08:02,400 --> 02:08:05,120
Speaker 2: sure to sign up at Breakingpoints dot com. I will

2563
02:08:05,120 --> 02:08:07,360
Speaker 2: see you back here with Dave Smith tomorrow and then

2564
02:08:07,400 --> 02:08:09,680
Speaker 2: we will go from there. Emily fun always.

2565
02:08:09,520 --> 02:08:11,200
Speaker 3: I'll see it too, because I'm going to be watching.

2566
02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:12,480
Speaker 4: Oh wait, there you go.

2567
02:08:12,600 --> 02:08:13,080
Speaker 5: I'll be fun.

2568
02:08:13,120 --> 02:08:14,720
Speaker 2: I was watching and Ryan's here, Just so you know,

2569
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:17,560
Speaker 2: you watch everything I do. I do I genuinely like

2570
02:08:17,640 --> 02:08:18,560
Speaker 2: I learn and I'm.

2571
02:08:18,440 --> 02:08:20,400
Speaker 3: A fan, so I mean, how can you not learn

2572
02:08:20,400 --> 02:08:23,560
Speaker 3: from Ryan? The man is just a font of wisdom infinite.

2573
02:08:24,280 --> 02:08:26,040
Speaker 4: There is a lot. There is a lot going on

2574
02:08:26,120 --> 02:08:27,040
Speaker 4: in that brain, isn't there.

2575
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:29,600
Speaker 5: Well, he'll be here on Wednesday. Dave is in tomorrow.

2576
02:08:29,720 --> 02:08:30,400
Speaker 5: Can't wait to see it.

2577
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:46,320
Speaker 4: Yep, sounds good. All right, guys, have a great day.