1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: So what do the left war on fossil fuels begin 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: and why did they wage it? And AOC told us 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: that we've got about twelve years to live a couple 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: of years ago, so we've got I guess ten left. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: Does that mean anything? We're gonna get to all these 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: issues and more with a guy who wrote the book 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: The Case for Fossil Fuels. His new book is called 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: Fossil Future, Alex Epstein, and he also previously wrote the 9 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: book The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels. We're gonna get 10 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: into some of these issues with him. Also, what can 11 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: we do about rising gas prices in America? I mean, 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious that the Biden administration wants to push 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: people towards their green agenda, even though it's causing pain, 14 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: even though it's hurting Americans, even though gas prices continue 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: to rise. I mean, what did his energy secretary said 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: when she was asked about rising gas prices? She said, Oh, 17 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: if you drive an electric car, this would not be 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: affecting you. They don't care about you. They don't care 19 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: about reducing gas prices and energy prices. They don't care 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: about what's good for us as humans. So we're going 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: to get into so many of these issues with Alex Epstein, 22 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 1: the guy who wrote the book about this, he's acknowledged 23 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: expert of subject matter expert on the issue of fossil fuels. 24 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: I want him to take us to school today. We're 25 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: going to get into the history of fossil fuels, how 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: we use them as a country. So I hope at 27 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: the end of this conversation you not only have a 28 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: general understanding of fossil fuels, but we all have a 29 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: deep understanding of fossil fuels. I really hope you enjoyed 30 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: this conversation. I hope you learn a lot. I know 31 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:44,759 Speaker 1: I did so. Alex, thanks so much for joining the show. 32 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: I appreciate you coming on my pleasure. Thanks for having me. So. 33 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: You have taken some positions with these books that we're 34 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: going to get into in the conversation that are short 35 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: of against the green right now, right like, you're basically 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: evil if you consume fossil fuels. You're a terrible person, 37 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: and you know you want the destruction of the country 38 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: and the environment and the entire world is more or 39 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: less the prevailing the hearative right now, How much hate 40 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: do you get for taking these positions that you have 41 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: and making the case for fossil fuels, I don't get 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: enough hate yet. And the reason I say that is 43 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: because I think that there's a tendency among I mean, 44 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: I know that there's a tendency among opponents of fossil 45 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: fuels to want to portray their position as logical, scientific, inarguable, 46 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 1: and so what they tend to do is ignore my 47 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: position because my position, I think is clearly very logical, scientific, 48 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: and hard to argue with. And so what happened with say, 49 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels, my first major book 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: on the topic. It was a New York Times bestseller. 51 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: It was one of the best selling and the most 52 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: influential energy books in the decade, and yet the left 53 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: almost completely ignored it. Uh and more broadly, the anti 54 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: fossil fuel movement almost completely ignored it. And I think 55 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: it was because they didn't really have an answer to it. 56 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: And what we saw with the lead up to Fossil Future, 57 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: which comes out is that, say the Washington Post, along 58 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 1: with small organizations, instead of actually engaging the book, they 59 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: tried to run a smear campaign accusing me, of all things, 60 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: of racism, which is particularly bizarresen something individualists, but it 61 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: really shows that they're afraid of the book and that 62 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: they have no way of engaging with the content of 63 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: the book. Well, they'll always find a way, Alex. This 64 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: is what we know. So I want you to take 65 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: us to school today and this conversation that we're having. 66 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have a general understanding 67 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: of fossil fuels, but not a deep understanding of fossil fuels. 68 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: So my goal is at the end of our conversation 69 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: that people have a deeper understanding of it. So if 70 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: we can begin, you know, we obviously know fossil fuels 71 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: are used for things like powering, you know, engines, electricity, 72 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: you know, things of that nature. But take us through 73 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: sort of the history of fossil fuels, how we get them, 74 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: what we use them for, and how reliant we are 75 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: on fossil fuels in America. And I'm glad you asked this, 76 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: since I don't even think most people really know what 77 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: fossil fuels are. And one way this came up there 78 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: was somewhat funny to is the Speaker of the House, 79 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, was saying natural gas is not a fossil fuel. 80 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: This is several years ago, so it just shows we 81 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: don't know much about this. So the fossil fuel is 82 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: just they refer to specifically oil, coal, and natural gas. 83 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: And what things these things are is there a liquid, solid, 84 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: and gaseous form of what's called the hydrocarbon, which is 85 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: a set of hydrogen atoms and carbon atoms, along with 86 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: some other smaller concentrations of other things. And essentially what 87 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: these things do is they're very very good for generating 88 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: energy because they store a large amount of chemical energy 89 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: and a small amount of space or in the case 90 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 1: of gas, a low amount of weight. And so when 91 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: you have energy, it's really good to people to have 92 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: it in a small amount of space, among other things, 93 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: because transportation, uh, it really benefits from that. That's why 94 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: we use oil for over the world's transportation, including things 95 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: like cargo ships and airplanes that really have no other substitute. 96 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: So we started using these things. Really, oil, the largest 97 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: fuel in the world, became started being used in the 98 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds, and but the cold before that, gas 99 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: after that. And the thing that these things could do 100 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: that nothing else could do and still really nothing else 101 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: can do as well, is they could provide the most 102 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: cost effective energy by far, and so energy I think 103 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: of it as machine calories or machine food. It's the 104 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: things that our machines eat to run. And to say 105 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: cost effective means it's low cost, it's reliable, it's versatile, 106 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: so it can power every form of machine, including those 107 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: cargo ships and airplanes that I mentioned, which other things can't. 108 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: And then it's on a global scale, so billions of 109 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: people in thousands of places. And basically what people found 110 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: and what industry found is that we can do this 111 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: amazingly using these deposits of oil, coal, and natural gas, 112 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 1: and we don't know how to do it anywhere near 113 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: as well with anything else. With I think the most 114 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: promising thing being nuclear, because that's also a very concentrated 115 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: uh store of energy. But we've we've seen that the 116 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: same movement, the green movement, that opposes fossil fuels, is 117 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: also so anti nuclear to the point where they've really 118 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 1: held it back by generations, and it's still generations away 119 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: from replacing fossil fuels, you know, so talk about you 120 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: previously written the book The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels, 121 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, arguing about fossil fuels ability to lift people 122 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: out of poverty and lift countries out of poverty. Go 123 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,799 Speaker 1: through for the audience your moral case for fossil fuels, 124 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 1: sure things, and and I mean that that case is 125 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: really replaced and amplified in the new one because I 126 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: thought that it needed to be made for the future, 127 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: and it needs to be made better, It needs to 128 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: be made with all the latest data. So so the 129 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: basic idea of that and fossil Future are going to 130 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: be the same. Fossil Future is just much more comprehensive 131 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: and current and focused on the future. Um But the 132 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: basic idea is that the basic idea is a method 133 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: of thinking. So it says, when we're evaluating this issue, 134 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: what do we do about fossil fuels, we have to 135 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: carefully look both at the benefits of fossil fuels and 136 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: at the side effects of fossil fuels. And I argue 137 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: that what we typically do is that we only look 138 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: at the side effects, and specifically the negative side effects, 139 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: and we tend to what I call catastrophies them. So 140 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: it's not to say fossil fuels don't have negative side effects, 141 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: but it's one thing to say, hey, fossil fuels have 142 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: caused one degree of warming, and here the negatives of that, 143 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: and here the positives is that, but also here the 144 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: positives of the energy versus saying, you know, the world 145 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: is terrible, it's unlivable, there's unprecedented everything, etcetera, etcetera. And 146 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: what I found is it's just simply not true, at 147 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: least so far, that we have this unprecedented negative climate damage. 148 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: In fact, if you look overall, we're safer from climate 149 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: than ever. So even if we've caused more droughts, say, 150 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: which is dubious, um, drought related deaths are down over 151 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: the last hundred years in large part because we have 152 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: the benefits of fossil fuels, such as irrigation, such as 153 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: drought relief convoys to neutralize and I would argue a 154 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: master drought. So the basic message of the book is 155 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: methodologically you have to look carefully at the benefits and 156 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: the side effects, and if you do that, you find 157 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: that fossil fuels are amazingly positive, in part because their 158 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: benefits can neutralize their side effects. Because fossil fuels give 159 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: you energy. Energy allows you to use machines, and machines 160 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: allow you to do pretty much anything. So again if 161 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: you even if you made drought a little bit worse, technically, 162 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: your capacity to master drought would far outwag that. And 163 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: that's certainly what we've seen so far. Well. And you know, 164 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: we've heard from the left to some the points you've made. 165 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: We've heard from the left say, you know, look, fossil 166 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: fuels are responsible for sea level you know, in carbon emissions, 167 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 1: all this stuff, climate whatever, the sea levels are rising, droughts. 168 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: AOC told us a couple of years ago, we've got 169 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: like twelve years left, so that you know, the clock 170 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: is running here. But but you're making this alternative case 171 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: that no, you know, fossil fuels are the future, are 172 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: not sort of some of these alternatives that they're looking at, 173 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: like you know, solar and wind and what have you. 174 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: You know, what are they what are they missing? And 175 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: is it intentional? Um? Yeah, it's really interesting, is it? 176 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: Is it intentional? So? I think what they're missing are 177 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: they're seeing the benefits of fossil fuels, including the superior 178 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,079 Speaker 1: cost effectiveness of fossil fuels to the alternative, and especially 179 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: to solar and wind, which have all sorts of issues 180 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: for the foreseeable future. Part of the context here and 181 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about the benefits of fossil fuels, is that 182 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: energy is crucial for human life, particularly cost effective energy 183 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: is crucial for human life, and the vast majority of 184 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: the world uses very little energy by our standards, including 185 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: one statistic I like to use is that three billion 186 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 1: individuals are using less electricity than one of our refrigerators. 187 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: So you just think about that, like how much refrigerator 188 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: uses and then there are people their whole life is 189 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: that say that number one more time for the audience. 190 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: There are three billion individuals, So if you look at 191 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: how much electricity they use, it's less than one of 192 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: our refrigerators. So in their entire life, that's what they're 193 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: using the equivalent of refrigerator, which means if this happens 194 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: in real life, like if you have a hospital, they 195 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: have to choose between having the lights on and refrigerating 196 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: the vaccines and operating the instruments on the operating table. 197 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: You have whole billions of people around the world who 198 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: don't have reliable electricity and so they don't have things 199 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: like incubators for babies. As when you're thinking about fossil 200 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 1: fuels and people are talking about eliminating them. Fossil fuels 201 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: are of the world's energy, and the world doesn't have 202 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: nearly enough energy. So you asked what you asked something 203 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 1: about the motive, And I think it is important to 204 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: ask about the motive because you're talking about rapidly eliminating 205 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: the leading source of energy in a world that needs 206 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: vastly more, and nobody talks about the benefits that would 207 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: be lost, even though they're enormous and they involved like 208 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: the most humanitarian things imaginable. And I think ultimately I 209 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: mean this, this is what I argue in Fossil Future. 210 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: It takes a little while to get there, but is 211 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: that the leaders of this movement, they don't think of 212 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: benefits in the same way that you or I might 213 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: in terms of a pro human way. They're not that 214 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,199 Speaker 1: concerned with human life. They're concerned with eliminating the impact 215 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: of human life on the rest of the planet. So 216 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: that's why they're so fixated on how do we get 217 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: rid of fossil fe is, how do we get rid 218 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: of nuclear or how do we oppose hydro electric gams. 219 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: They're so fixated on eliminating our impact versus advancing human 220 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: life around the world. I think that's the only way 221 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: somebody knowledgeable can ignore the benefits of fossil fuels to 222 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 1: the extent that we see now. I think that's a 223 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: really interesting and good point, you know. So, But when 224 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: we look at this war that the left is waged 225 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: on fossil fuels, and we saw with Obama, you know, 226 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: the war Uncole. We've seen the Biden administration essentially laugh 227 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: in the faces the people struggling with gas prices, saying, oh, 228 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: just get an electric car, you know whatever. But when 229 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 1: did this war begin and why do you think it began? 230 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: So that there are different phases of the war. I mean, 231 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: in a sense there's been hostility towards fossil fuels for 232 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: over a century in the sense of opposition to big business, 233 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: but really the modern opposition, the idea that we need 234 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: to eliminate it for the sake of quote, the environment 235 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: or the planet, that really begins in the late sixties 236 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 1: and early seventies, and it did have consequences. Then it 237 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: was part of the cause of the energy crisis because 238 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: guess what, there was a big pipeline back then. This 239 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: was an Alaskan pipeline and guts who eliminated it or 240 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: who stopped it for a while was actually Richard Nixon. 241 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: So Richard Nixon interestingly stopped a pipeline, and he also 242 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: imposed price controls, So basically he restricted the supply and 243 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: then he artificially lowered the price, and so he created shortages, which, 244 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: by the way, is exactly what today's Democrats are doing, 245 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: right because they're stopping a pipeline and now this week 246 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: they're talking about price controls in terms of the president 247 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: should be able to say you can't raise gasoline prices 248 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: beyond this point, regardless of supply and the man. So 249 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: that's an interesting parallel. But however that it was in 250 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 1: the sixties and seventies, it's gotten much much worse today, 251 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: I think because the modern anti fossil fuel environmental movement 252 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: really took over the schools, which ultimately means taking over 253 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: the media as well, because the media members go to 254 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: the schools, and so by the time on born in, 255 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: I think mine was the first generation really indoctrinated in 256 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: this fully, you know. But my generation now is leading 257 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: the media, and what we're doing is we're saying, yeah, 258 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: we need to rapidly eliminate fossil fuels. That's priority number one, 259 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: and it's gotten to the point where the number one 260 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: goal espoused by companies, by governments, by leaders is eliminate 261 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: fossil fuels rapidly. That they'll often call it net zero 262 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: or carbon neutral by but that just means eliminate fossil 263 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: fuels very rapidly, which is really scary to me, because 264 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,239 Speaker 1: again they're not thinking about the benefits of fossil fuels, 265 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: and they're they're real focus is how do we eliminate 266 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: human impact versus advancing human life. We're gonna take a 267 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: quick commercial break more with Alex Epstein after the break, 268 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: walk through the damage on human impact. If we reach 269 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: some of the goals that the Biden administration and Democrats 270 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 1: want to set out of being oh, we're going to 271 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: be you know, carbon zero at whatever, you know, two 272 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,479 Speaker 1: thousand whatever, what's the impact of all of that on humans? 273 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at the fact that I 274 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: have in fossil future, you won't believe what I would say. 275 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: I mean, let's you really know those sects, because it 276 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: really means killing billions of people prematurely. There's simply no 277 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: way of getting around that. And part of what I 278 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: show is that if you look at what human life 279 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: was like before we had low cost, reliable energy for 280 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: a lot of people. You know, our average life expectancy 281 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: is thirty uh was very high death rate, very little opportunity, 282 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: very low income. The planet can support very few people. 283 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: And the reason is because the planet, contrary to what 284 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: we're told, is not a very nice place to live 285 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: absent human beings being very very productive. And to be productive, 286 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: we can't just use our physical bodies. We need machines. 287 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: And so when you hear these proposals to rapidly eliminate 288 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: fossil fuels in a world that needs far more energy, 289 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: when there is no alternative that can provide energy at 290 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: today's scale, let alone the needed scale for tomorrow, that 291 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: just means billions of people are going to be less productive, 292 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: which means they're going to be poor, which means they're 293 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: going to die early. We're already seeing this when we 294 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: talk about Green New Deal and Biden plants. Tiny versions 295 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: of this have been implemented by Europe, and look what 296 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: happens to their fuel prices. Look at what happens to 297 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: their security, because you start to if you don't produce 298 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: fossil fuels yourself, you depend on agents states like Russia, 299 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: and we're just at the beginning. So we we've been 300 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: trying this and already we're seeing the pain of far 301 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: higher prices for for fuel, of far higher prices for electricity. 302 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: But I just want to stress there is no viable 303 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: alternative to fossil fuels for the foreseeable future. By far, 304 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: the most promising alternative is nuclear. That's still generations away 305 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: from global scale, and that is also opposed by the 306 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: anti fossil fuel movement, so it's really it's a murderous movement. 307 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: Now part of this is it won't happen. So one 308 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: point I make at the end of Fossil Future is 309 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: the whole world is not going to do this. I mean, 310 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: obviously China and Indian Russia won't do it, but we 311 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: won't do it either, because we will cause these catastrophes 312 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: getting there. But but my goal is not I don't 313 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: want to just cause catastrophes and learn and not do 314 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,479 Speaker 1: the ultimate apocalypse. I want to actually improve America, particularly 315 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: because we're in a world where China and Russia are 316 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: going to avidly pursue fossil fuels, and that puts US 317 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: at a strategic and ultimately existential disadvantage. Well, it isn't 318 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: that kind of the joke of what's going on right 319 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: now that we are not doing the things in America 320 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: to produce, you know, more oil and energy, yet we 321 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: are relying on hostile nations who are going to do 322 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: it in a less keen, clean manner that we could 323 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: do it here in the United States. Yes, and so 324 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: one way of thinking of this is people are very 325 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: clear that they want to destroy fossil fuels, and they're 326 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: not serious at all about what would replace it. Because 327 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: you really want in the replacement, you would actually look 328 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: to hey, is there anything on the market that can 329 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: provably replace fossil fuels before you started talking about restricting them. 330 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: But instead, look at what Biden did. What's his first 331 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: action just shutting down a pipeline. What's his second action 332 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: on energy is um is banning leasing on federal lance. 333 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: And notice that he destroyed America's ability to produce fossil fuels. 334 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: But he did not do anything to replace fossil fuels 335 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: effectively because he doesn't know because there isn't anything on 336 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: the timetable. He he claims that that he wants, but 337 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: we still need the fossil fuel. So then what happens 338 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: He suddenly realizes that, and so now he's begging to 339 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: every dictator around the world, hey can I have some 340 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: more fossil fuel? And what we're seeing this with Europe 341 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: on an even greater scale because they've been been even 342 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: less wise than we have. Well, and Trump warned about 343 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: that when he was president, and I remember he gave 344 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: the u n speech in two thousand eighteen and he 345 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: specifically said that reliance on a single foreign supplier can 346 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: leave a nation vulnerable to extortion and intimidation. Was also 347 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 1: warning about Nordstream too, and warning Germany to not engage 348 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: in that with Russia. And now, you know, to your point, 349 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: Europe's really struggling right now on this very issue because 350 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: they ignored Trump and instead actually laughed in his face 351 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: about all of this. Yeah, I definitely agreed with him 352 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 1: when he said that there's actually there are actually quite 353 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: a few good things in that speech that he gave, 354 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: and it it was it was ridiculed. Another aspect of 355 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: up the security thing, which again shows that the opponents 356 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: of fossil fuels are not at all serious about energy, 357 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: is that the alleged replace but for fossil fuels, which 358 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: is unreliable, solar and rent which which is a terrible 359 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: replacement for the foreseeable future. For reasons we can discuss. 360 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: But an obvious thing is the whole entire supply chain 361 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: depends on China, particularly what's called the processing of the 362 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: raw mind materials. They do a lot of mining that, 363 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: they do even more of the processing of raw materials. 364 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: And so you have that entire thing where China can 365 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: cut it off at a moment's notice. And yet China 366 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: is in many ways hostile. It wants to be the 367 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: dominant superpower by and we are talking about an energy 368 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: future that is overwhelmingly controlled by China, which is totally 369 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 1: different to say, than fossil fuels, which we can produce 370 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: in very large quantities domestically and trade with a bunch 371 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: of allies to get. So what can we do, you know, today, 372 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: if Biden wanted to, which obviously doesn't because his intent 373 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: is to drive us away from fossil fuels. I mean, 374 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: his energy secretary when asked about gas prices is if 375 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, if you drive an electric card, this would 376 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: not be affecting you. So clearly they want Americans. I mean, 377 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: I mean, let's be honest, they want Americans to suffer 378 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: because they want to push people towards this green agenda 379 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: that they have. But let's say we live in a 380 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: world where the president actually cares about the suffering of 381 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: the American people, actually wants to drive down gas prices, 382 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: energy prices. What can be done today to to reduce 383 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: that burden on so many people who are really struggling 384 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: right now financially. I think it's it's it's very very 385 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: clear and simple, and everyone wants to evade it because 386 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 1: most of the people cause the problem. But the very 387 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: simple thing is Congress, and I'm emphasizing Congress. You know, 388 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: along with the President, they need to pass a bill 389 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: that commits the government to stop destroying and threatening fossil 390 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: fuel production, transportation, and investment in the United States. We 391 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 1: have this concerted campaign to stop production, to stop transportation, 392 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: to stop investment, and it really we really need to 393 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: have laws that that's say that we are going to 394 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: be free to do this, that we reject the Paris Agreement, 395 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: we reject net zero row because as long as you 396 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: have these threats, what's going to happen is the industry 397 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: is rightly not going to invest as much as it 398 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: otherwise would in production, because why would you invest in 399 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: something that our government has openly said they're going to destroy. 400 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: So this is the lie about Biden, is that I 401 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: mean his he claims he's not doing anything negatively to 402 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: negative affect the industry. That's a lie one because he's 403 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: been participating in the movement for fifteen plus years to 404 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: restrict production, transport and investment in the stuff. But also 405 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: his he ran on I guarantee you we will end 406 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: fossil fuel. What do you think that does to the 407 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: confidence of an industry. Investment happens based on confidence in 408 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: future profitability. If you threaten the future profitability of the industry, Uh, 409 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,640 Speaker 1: then it is not going to invest as much, nor 410 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: should it invest as much, because it has a duty 411 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: to its shareholders. Not too so. I talked to a 412 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: lot of people in the oil industry. It's very simple. 413 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: If they had a guaranteed stable environment where they could 414 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: drill and explore and off it and not be not 415 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: have the threat, not have the threat of destruction by government, 416 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: of course they would expand production. They want to make 417 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: money and they want to produce energy for America and 418 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: the world. You can look at states like California that 419 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: have moved towards, you know, some of this green energy stuff, 420 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: and they've had rolling blackouts and things like that, you know, 421 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: and I believe their prices have increased exponentially as well. 422 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about California. Is that an accurate assessment? 423 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: Take us through that a little bit. Yeah, I'm I 424 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: live in California, so I've I've experienced this and I 425 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: had to well, I love Florida, I love the I 426 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: love the weather here, and I live in the Gunda Beach, 427 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: which is somewhat isolated from from some of this stuff. 428 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean I remember in you know, I 429 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: had two virtual events, which is part of how I 430 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: make my living, and both of them had to be 431 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: moved because of blackouts. Uh here, So what's going The 432 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: basic thing to understand? So, so you were right about 433 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 1: the basic submarine, But the basic thing is we're trying 434 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: to replace fossil fuels as well as nuclear and hydro 435 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: which are controllable, reliable sources of electricities. That means you 436 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: can get them on demand when you need them in 437 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: the quantities that you need them. And so what happens 438 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: is we're trying to replace that with uncontrollable, unreliable solar 439 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: and wind. Well, but if you have something that's unreliable 440 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: and with solar and wind they can go near zero 441 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: at almost any time, what that means is you need 442 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: a reliable backup. So what that means is you have 443 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,960 Speaker 1: to pay for the reliable grid plus the unreliable infrastructure 444 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: on top of that. That puts pressure on prices, and 445 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 1: so what people tend to do sometimes is that they 446 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: will reduce the reliable electricities. In California was shut down, 447 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: a big nuclear plant was shut down, a bunch of 448 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: natural gas plants, and I call this reliability chicken. We 449 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: try to shut down as many reliable power plants as 450 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: we can, have as much unreliable solar and wind as 451 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: we can, and then we hope it doesn't get too hot, 452 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't get too cold, and the sun shines a lot, 453 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: there's not too many clouds, and the wind blows a lot. 454 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: So it's really a primitive lifestyle right where you're you're 455 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: kind of gambling on the weather. And part of how 456 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 1: we survive in California with this arrangement is we import 457 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: a lot of electricity from our more reliable neighbors. But 458 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: there was a heat wave, wind died down, our neighbors 459 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: wanted more of their electricity, and so we had statewide blackouts. 460 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: But this is even more going to happen in the 461 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: future if our neighbors emulate us, which they're starting to. 462 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: So this whole scheme of unreliable solar and wind, these 463 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: are right now are parasites on the broader grid that 464 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: add cost and when you try to reduce costs, they 465 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: undercut reliability. And I think the exact same thing has 466 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: happened in Texas taking quick break more on the case 467 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: for fossil fuels with our except signs stay with us, 468 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,120 Speaker 1: you know. And so the core argument to the left 469 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: with alternative energy is that it's better for the environment, 470 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 1: is it? So my background is philosophy. I don't like 471 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: the term better for the environment because it's it's deliberately vague. 472 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: Does it mean a better environment for is it better 473 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: for a human environment? Like does it make the world 474 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,640 Speaker 1: a better place for human beings? Or is it better 475 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: for an environment that has fewer human beings having less impacts? 476 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: So what I think of it is I want a 477 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: world where human life is really good. I call this 478 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 1: advancing human flourishing around the world. And by that standard, 479 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: fossil fuels make the world a far better environment because 480 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: they make us far more productive and prosperous. The world 481 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: is a much more abundant and safe place. And it's 482 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: also a lot cleaner, which people don't realize, but you know, 483 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,919 Speaker 1: naturally say water is dirty and distant, you know, we 484 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: make it clean and nearby through purifying it and pumping it. 485 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: You think about something even like air pollution. The places 486 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 1: in the world with the worst air pollution are places 487 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: that have indoor pollution from wood and animal done because 488 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: they have primitive fuels. And we know, and this is 489 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: shown all throughout fossil future, is that we can reduce 490 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: emissions of standard air pollution dramatically while increasing use of 491 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: fossil fuels dramatically. The United States has proven that this 492 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: is doable. So basically, you cannot have a good environment 493 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: for human beings, including a clean and safe environment, without 494 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: a lot of fossil fuel. Now, the claim that you 495 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: hear is, oh, well, it's destroying quote the climate. But 496 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: as I mentioned before, fossil fuels help you protect yourself 497 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 1: from climate so and and we have very strong data 498 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: on this because we've been burning fossil fuels for a 499 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,120 Speaker 1: long time. We have very good data on what's called 500 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: climate related disaster deaths, the number of people who die 501 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: from climate related disasters for the last hundred years, and 502 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: we've seen that rate go down, which means that you 503 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: are one is likely to die from a climate related 504 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: disasters such as a drought, storm, flood, wildfire, et cetera. 505 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: So it's amazing, as I like to put it, fossil 506 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: fuels haven't taken a safe climate and made it dangerous. 507 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: They've taken a dangerous climate and made it safe. Is wrong. Well, 508 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: that's kind of the obvious thing. But she's the most 509 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: interesting thing about that prediction though, which I talked about 510 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: in chapter or is You know what she said was, 511 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 1: scientists are telling us the world is going to end 512 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: in twelve years, and you're asking us about the price. 513 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: It's something very close that, you know, you're talking about 514 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: the price and the idea is that, oh, the price 515 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: of energy? Who cares about that when we're talking about 516 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: the livability of the planet, the future planet. But the 517 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: point I make is the planet is not livable without 518 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: low cost, reliable energy because then we have. If we 519 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: don't have that, then we can't use machines, We have 520 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: to use manual labor, and we have to live in nature. 521 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: And I don't think AOC would want to be in 522 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: one of the places that's using less, where the people 523 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: use less electricity than one refrigerator of ours. Well, you know, also, 524 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 1: I get frustrated with you know, they always say, well, 525 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: the science has settled on this, the science has settled 526 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: on this when they push their you know, religion and 527 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 1: their agenda. But science is never settled. And I think 528 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: what we saw, particularly with you know, COVID, is that 529 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: we're allied to quite a bit as well. I have 530 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: a couple of issues with the way that that term 531 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: is used because I think that the first thing is 532 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,199 Speaker 1: what do you mean by the science here? What the 533 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: allegedly scientific question that's settled? And what happens is the 534 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: question people? The question that is quote settled in any way. 535 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: We can talk about how much is the idea that 536 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: human beings have some impact on climate primarily due to 537 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: the if CO O two emissions when we burn fossil fuels, 538 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: and I do agree with that, but that has that 539 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: that agreement in so far as it exists, so you 540 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: could also argue, Okay, well it could be wrong, and 541 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: you can argue that, but even if it is true, 542 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that it's settled that we need to 543 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: get rid of fossil fuels, because it doesn't even say 544 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,719 Speaker 1: that the climate impacts are bad, let alone so bad 545 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: that we should deprive billions of people of the benefits 546 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 1: of fossil fuels. So this in philosophy, that's called an equivocation. 547 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: They're going from, fossil fuels have some climate impacts, that settled. Two, 548 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: we should rapidly get rid of fossil fuels and replace 549 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: them with unreliable solar and wind, which is not remotely settled. 550 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: And I would actually argue that it's settled that we 551 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: shouldn't do that if you look at the facts, because 552 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: the benefits of fossil fuels are so well known, so massive, 553 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: and the potential negative side effects on climate can't be 554 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: that bad because we're so good at mastering climate. And 555 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: they're talking about, oh, it's warmed one degree since the 556 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, and if it warms two degrees, the whole 557 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: world is gonna end. I mean, how could that possibly 558 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: be possible given that the world is amazingly better at 559 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: one degree warmer. So you mentioned religion. There is really 560 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 1: a primitive religious view that the earth is perfect without 561 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: us and that everything we do ruins it. And that's 562 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: part of why people think, oh, yeah, if it warms 563 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: one more degree, the earth is going to be terrible. No, 564 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: the earth has been, has been fourteen degrees celsius warmer 565 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: before and life thrived. It's had fifteen times more CEO 566 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: two and life thrives. It's a different world, it's more 567 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: tropical world. But this idea that our impact is ruining 568 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: the world, that's a primitive, anti human religious view. It's 569 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: not a it's not a scientific view. You're obviously, you know, 570 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: very passionate and knowledgeable about fossil fuels. What are your 571 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: interest in this originally? You know, when when did you 572 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: start sort of taking up this mission of making the 573 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: case for fossil feels to the public. So it started 574 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: very unexpectedly about fifteen years ago. Now, so my my 575 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: background is philosophy, so I'm really hopefully it comes out, 576 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: but I'm fairly obsessed with how do you think logically 577 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: about issues? And I like to step back a lot 578 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: and think about Hey, what are our thinking methods? Do 579 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: they make sense? So? Does it make sense the only 580 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: look at the negative side effects of those? No? What 581 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: are our assumptions? Are we assuming the Earth is perfect 582 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,239 Speaker 1: without us? Is that a true assumption? No? What are 583 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: our values? Is our goal to advance human flourishing on Earth? 584 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: Or is it to eliminate human impact on our So 585 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: I think a lot about methods, assumptions, and values, which 586 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: are all part of philosophy. And I wrote about all 587 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: sorts of issues, and I never found one that I 588 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: really wanted to become an expert on. But energy really 589 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: appealed to me because it's so fundamental because energy is 590 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: the industry that powers every other industry. It really is, 591 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: or the technology that powers every other technology, So the 592 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: decisions about it are so important and pretty clear. It 593 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: pretty early became clear to me that our philosophy about 594 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: energy is terrible because it's really based on this terrible 595 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: methodist thinking of only looking at side effects. It has 596 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,719 Speaker 1: this totally false assumption that the Earth is perfect without us. 597 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: It's not focused on advancing human flourishing. And so I 598 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: thought there was a tremendous opportunity to really re educate 599 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: the world from a pro human perspective about the full 600 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: benefits and side effects of fossil fuels. And you know, 601 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: fifteen years later, I finally achieved it with Fossil Future. 602 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: It took a long time to really understand all of this, 603 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: but I mean not to say that I won't learn more, 604 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: but I think I really have it all worked out 605 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: now where it's obvious that we need more fossil fuels 606 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: and that the anti fossil fuel movement is really a 607 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: very deadly movement for the world end in particular for 608 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: America's security. And how many jobs are tied to the 609 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: fossil fuel industry, Well, you have different estimates. So sometimes 610 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: you'll you'll see some trade associations say, well, there are 611 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: nine million jobs indirectly, but I would say every job 612 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: is tied to it, because name a job doesn't use 613 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: machines even directly, let alone indirectly to produce the things 614 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: that are part of that. So what machines are just 615 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: amazing because they make human beings far more productive and prosperous. 616 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: So every industry that we have depends on the ability 617 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: to use machines to produce value. If energy becomes too expensive, 618 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: you can't use machines, you default to more manual labor, 619 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: or what often happens now is you just offshore to China. 620 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: So because they're using huge percentage of coal for their electricity, 621 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: fossil fuels more broadly provide over of their energy and so, yeah, 622 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: well it's really scary. Is another reason it's scary for 623 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: us to unilaterally stop using fossil fuels, because then our 624 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: industry becomes uncompetitive, and then we have less and you know, 625 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: there are fewer job opportunities here and more and more 626 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,080 Speaker 1: of our economy depends on other places, but with us 627 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: being you know, us making ourselves less and less productive. 628 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: So it's a very precarious situation, particularly because we're the 629 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: world's superpower, and our security not only depends on us, 630 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: but the world security depends on us. And one of 631 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: the keys to security is a really really powerful economy, 632 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: and without low cost, reliable energy, you cannot have that. 633 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: Did anything surprise you in your research? Did you learn 634 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: anything new in the process of writing the book? I 635 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: learned a lot of stuff in the process. One thing 636 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: I talked about at the beginning of it, which is 637 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: um the very beginning of it, is that I was 638 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: a little bit out of the issue for a few 639 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,479 Speaker 1: years between the moral case and fossil future, and I 640 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: actually expected that fossil future, that moral case wasn't as 641 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: right as it was, because I thought, Okay, for sure, 642 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: given everything I'm hearing in the media, climate stuff must 643 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: have gotten worse, considerably worse, and the ability to replace 644 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: fossil fuels of soul and when maybe it's really happening, 645 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: like I was, just I was a little bit out 646 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: of it, and I was just following the media, and 647 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: it was so overwhelming that even I thought, oh, yeah, 648 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: maybe maybe this is more right than I thought. And 649 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: then I looked at it and then it turned out 650 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: of more wrong than I thought. In particular, I had 651 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: had a philosopher working with me, and he really helped 652 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 1: me think about these issues in a very pro human way. 653 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 1: And so one thing I noticed with let's say the 654 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: climate issue, is that I was too much assuming that 655 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: c O two was all bad, that US causing warming, 656 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: and I knew plant growth was good, but US causing 657 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: warming was all bad. When you look at the data, 658 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: we have five times more cold related deaths in the 659 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: world than heat related death and if you look at 660 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: the science. When the world warms, it warms more in 661 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: colder regions than in warmer regions, So there's a lot 662 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: of reasons to regard warming as desirable. And what this 663 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: cluded me and on was we really have this view 664 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: that human impact is bad and that view needs to 665 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: be checked and it's it even existed some in me. 666 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: So in Fossil Future, I think got much more consistent 667 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: in having a pro human view and not having any 668 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: of the anti human bias that's so easy to pick 669 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: up in our culture. Is there anything else you want 670 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: to leave the audience with before we go? Yeah, I 671 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: would say that the we're really at a tremendous point 672 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: right now. That is precarious, but there's also a big 673 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: opportunity because we have this energy crisis which is getting worse. 674 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: But the one silver lining of it is there is 675 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: an educational opportunity because people can see that the establishment 676 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: that's telling us, hey, stop investing in fossil field, stop 677 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: producing them, stop transporting them, that is clearly leading to 678 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: a lot of bad consequences, and we're experiencing that. People 679 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 1: are experiencing that, of course with gasoline prices, with electricity prices, 680 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: with with blackouts, so I think there's a new openness 681 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: to hey, maybe there's something wrong with this anti fossil 682 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: fuel movement UM, and that leads to an openness to 683 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: be educated. And so I would I would h encourage 684 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: people check out Fossil Future. You can. You can pre 685 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: order or just learn about it at fossil future dot 686 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 1: com and um, if you get it before I guess 687 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: it comes out on May twenty. To get it before then, 688 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of a sational resources that you'll get, 689 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: including people might be interested. I have a really interesting 690 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: conversation with a billionaire investor and futurist Peter Tile, as 691 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: well as with Palmer Lucky, who if people haven't heard 692 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: of as an amazing guy, he's a he found it Oculus, 693 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: he sold it for billions of dollars to Facebook. But 694 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: most importantly, he runs the most pro America pro technology 695 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 1: defense company right now, and he and I talked about 696 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: what energy means for our country's security. So I'm really 697 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: just trying to give the world this incredible energy re 698 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: education from a pro human perspective, and I think the 699 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: world is more open to it than ever. So if 700 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: you're probably open to it, if you're listening to the show, 701 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 1: but even you might have friends who are more open 702 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,879 Speaker 1: to this kind of thing than they would have been 703 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: in the past. Well, Alex, I know I've learned a 704 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: ton from you today. This has been a very fascinating 705 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: and interesting conversation. I appreciate you taking the time to 706 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: come on the show. Everyone go out and get the 707 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: book Fossil Future. Alex, thanks so much, appreciate your time. 708 00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. There was such an interesting conversation. I'n't have you, 709 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: but I learned so much about fossil fuels. I wanted 710 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: Alex to take us to school. He did. I learned 711 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 1: so much. I want to thank you guys at home 712 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: for listening. I also want to thank John Cassio, my producer. 713 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: We worked really hard to put this podcast together and 714 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: if you wouldn't mind, it really appreciate it. If you 715 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: go to Apple, rate us five stars, leave us a review, 716 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: and please share this podcast with your friends, your family, 717 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: shared on social media. Any amplification is greatly appreciated. Thanks 718 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: so much for listening to the Truth with Lisa Booth.