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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A man comes home after

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Speaker 1: Workie's sitting on his own sofa eating ice cream with

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Speaker 1: a TV on when he is shot dead by a

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Speaker 1: Dallas police officer. That officer, Amber Geiger, who had the

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Speaker 1: defense that she thought she was entering her apartment okay

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Speaker 1: and thought the guy sitting on the sofa eating ice

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Speaker 1: cream was an intruder. In the last days, former Dallas

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Speaker 1: police officer Amber Geiger ordered to pay nearly one hundred

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Speaker 1: million dollars to the family of the victim. Remember Geiger

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Speaker 1: convicted six years ago of killing the unarmed victim in

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Speaker 1: his own apartment. She told authorities she thought Botham's apartment

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Speaker 1: was hers. Her own BODYCM was not recording during the

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Speaker 1: shooting because she had just gotten off work, but she

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Speaker 1: still had her police issue revolver, was issuing orders and

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Speaker 1: commands and responding on her shoulder device, and was wearing

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Speaker 1: her uniform. She appealed the conviction but lost the appeal.

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Speaker 1: She came up for parole September twenty nine, and after

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Speaker 1: much much ado, was denied parole. The civil lawsuit accuses

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Speaker 1: her of using excessive force in Jean's death. Attorneys for

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Speaker 1: the Gene family, including high profile civil rights lawyer Ben Crump,

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Speaker 1: lauded the verdict and pointed out that Botham was doing

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Speaker 1: nothing more than sitting in his own home eating ice

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Speaker 1: when Amber Geiger wrongly entered the victim's apartment and shot

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Speaker 1: him dead. Ninety eight point six million dollar verdict. What

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Speaker 1: happened that fateful night in Dallas, Texas.

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Speaker 2: I have asked too many questions, and I've been told

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Speaker 2: that their answers. Yet I'm looking forward to all of

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Speaker 2: the powers that be to come up with the answers

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Speaker 2: to make me more satisfied that they are doing what

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Speaker 2: is in the best interest of getting justice for both

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing the mother of both of them, Jean. That's

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Speaker 1: Alison Jane, speaking through her pain as she searches for

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Speaker 1: answers as to why her son a really shining star,

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Speaker 1: a twenty six year old young man with his life

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Speaker 1: before him, had done great in school, had an awesome job,

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Speaker 1: had a beautiful apartment that he kept neat as a pin.

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Speaker 1: He's at home reading in his apartment at night when

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Speaker 1: a cop, a Dallas cop, comes through the door. He

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Speaker 1: stands up and she guns him down dead, and the

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Speaker 1: defense is I hope you're sitting down that she was

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Speaker 1: in the wrong apartment. She thought it was her apartment.

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Speaker 1: Now I had a problem with that. Now a lot

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Speaker 1: of people claiming, oh, it's a racial issue, you know what,

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Speaker 1: Maybe it is. I don't know that. But my real

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Speaker 1: problem I don't care about the white, the black. That

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Speaker 1: this that that I care about. How can a cop

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Speaker 1: who's just come off duty, who we assume is going

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Speaker 1: to be stone cold, sober, maybe even a little wired

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Speaker 1: up from working a beat on the street, still in uniform,

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Speaker 1: goes to the wrong apartment, doesn't notice a key fact

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Speaker 1: about a bright red doormat his apartment, has it hers

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Speaker 1: doesn't jind notice that the we're now taking a close

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Speaker 1: look at the apartment itself. The numbers on the apartments

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Speaker 1: are lit up in kneon knee on. You walk in,

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Speaker 1: you can't see that's not your furniture. But still gun

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Speaker 1: somebody down. Now we are hearing that the doors to

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Speaker 1: the apartments. And I've had these in many places where

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Speaker 1: I live, so I know, and still in New York,

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Speaker 1: a heavy metal fire door is your door. That's very common.

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Speaker 1: A heavy metal fire door that automatically slam shut allegedly

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Speaker 1: in this building where both of them lived. And listen

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Speaker 1: to this natural sound we've obtained of the video of

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Speaker 1: how this door works. Okay, you can't hear it at

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Speaker 1: the beginning, but you can hear with the shutting that

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Speaker 1: that's one of those heavy metal doors. When my apartment

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Speaker 1: door closes, you can hear, whether you barely three inches

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Speaker 1: to the doorjam or not, you can hear just like that.

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Speaker 1: That says a lot to me, which I will explain.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now, Syndicated talk show host Dave Mack,

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Speaker 1: Also with me Renow New York psychologist Karen Stark, Kathleen Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina lawyer and Janson Heel, Nashville PD turned private

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Speaker 1: eye Dave Mac. Let's just start at the beginning for

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Speaker 1: people that are not familiar with the shooting death of

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Speaker 1: this young twenty six year old man, both of them.

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Speaker 1: Jane what happened that night?

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Speaker 3: An off duty police officer who had just finished her shift,

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Speaker 3: who lived directly below the victim. Here, she comes home,

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Speaker 3: she parks in the wrong parking deck, one deck higher

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Speaker 3: than she normally parks, and goes into If you believe

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Speaker 3: her story, she goes to her apartment what she believes

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Speaker 3: to be her apartment, and the door is a jar.

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Speaker 3: She opens the door, lights are all out, and she

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Speaker 3: sees the silhouette of a man who is not obeying

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Speaker 3: her commands to do whatever. The problem here is that

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Speaker 3: we don't have an answer as to why or anything

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Speaker 3: else except for the fact that we have one dead

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Speaker 3: twenty six year old young man and a police officer

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Speaker 3: with no reasonable story that can be believed.

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Speaker 1: I'm taking a look at the door right now, the

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Speaker 1: front door of Apartment thirteen seventy eight, directly below both

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Speaker 1: of them jeans. Now, this is Amber geig Or, the

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Speaker 1: police officer's front door. The panel to the left of

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Speaker 1: her door has the apartment lit up in neon. You

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Speaker 1: can't help but see it, Jack, You look at this.

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Speaker 1: See that's how it looks. It's a long rectangular strip

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Speaker 1: by every door, very clear, and it's kind of like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that style of art would be, geometric.

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Speaker 1: It's a rectangle. It looks to be like maybe three

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Speaker 1: or four feet long. It's beside to the left of

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Speaker 1: every door. It's decoration, and there's several squares lit up

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Speaker 1: white neon squares within the rectangle. It's vertical, and underneath

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Speaker 1: the first square, you see your apartment number lit up

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Speaker 1: fourteen seventy eight, thirteen seventy eight. It's literally lit up

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Speaker 1: in neon beside the door. That's what I'm saying. Both

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Speaker 1: of Jean was shot and killed by a Dallas police officer,

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Speaker 1: Amber Geiger, who says it was a mistake that she

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Speaker 1: went into both of Jean's apartment fourteen seventy eight thinking

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Speaker 1: it was her own thirteen seventy eight, But the door

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Speaker 1: numbers are clearly visible. Now, let me go back to you,

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Speaker 1: David Matt, syndicated talk show host, What can you tell

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Speaker 1: me again about the red, bright, red, deep red doormat?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was something that both put there on purpose

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Speaker 3: to differentiate his apartment from all of the others around him.

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Speaker 3: And if you actually look at the pictures we've seen,

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Speaker 3: nobody else has a red matt in front of their apartment,

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Speaker 3: and certainly not miss Geiger. She didn't have a mat

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Speaker 3: in front of her apartment. There's no excuse there that

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Speaker 3: that could have been a mistake. There's nothing to.

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Speaker 1: Her red semi circular doormat outside both of Jean's apartment.

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Speaker 1: Hers was bear I would have noticed that if I

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Speaker 1: came home and suddenly there was a bright red doormat

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Speaker 1: that I hadn't bought and it was out Because I know,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you this, My husband David is not

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Speaker 1: slung up at the bed, bathroom beyond. That's not happening, okay,

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Speaker 1: And no but me is going to take time out

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Speaker 1: to order anything on Amazon. Not happening. In fact, our

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Speaker 1: code to Amazon is highly classified because if the twins

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Speaker 1: had that, I'd be in the poorhouse for sure. So

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Speaker 1: if I came home and see a red doormat, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna notice it. And you got to keep in mind

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Speaker 1: as I was describing how the numbers are lit up

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Speaker 1: in Neon, I'm looking now at the front of the apartment.

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Speaker 1: It's very geometric looking. Check this out, Jackie, Jackie Howard

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Speaker 1: here in the studio with me. See everything. If you

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Speaker 1: look at the front of the building is tall, rectangular,

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Speaker 1: it's very geometric designing. The building is a square. It's

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Speaker 1: very let me just say contemporary. And the front of

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Speaker 1: the building is decorated in rectangles, different types of rectangles. Now, also,

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Speaker 1: as she would, Jackie's holding up sign yes that you

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Speaker 1: would feel the doormat as you walk across and get

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Speaker 1: your key, which leads me to the key. Hold on, Vincent,

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Speaker 1: Kathleen and Karen. I just got to give you these facts,

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Speaker 1: David Mack tell me about the key. It's an electronic key.

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Speaker 3: They're right. Yeah, they're electronic keys, and they won't open

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Speaker 3: any door other than the one that they're codd for.

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Speaker 3: So the key for thirteen seventy eight Miss Geiger's apartment

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Speaker 3: would only open thirteen seventy eight. It would not have

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Speaker 3: opened fourteen seventy eight. And you got to remember her

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Speaker 3: claim that the door was a jar. We already proved

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Speaker 3: earlier that that wouldn't happen because they automatically closed. So

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Speaker 3: the options for what she's claiming nothing holds true to

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Speaker 3: her story at all. But that key, the electronic key,

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Speaker 3: the only on the wood work is fourteen seventy eight,

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Speaker 3: and both those keys were found inside the apartment.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. In the last hours, a

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Speaker 1: former Dallas police officer, Amber Geiger ordered to pay nearly

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Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars to the family of a man

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Speaker 1: wrongfully shot in his own apartment sitting on his own

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Speaker 1: sofa eating ice cream. Now this comes after another outrage

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Speaker 1: when the officer Amber Geiger went up for parole not

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Speaker 1: too too long after she was convicted in the shooting

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Speaker 1: death of Botham Gene. That's right, Geiger was convicted of

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Speaker 1: murdering Botham Gene just six years ago, and then she

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Speaker 1: came up for parole. What she's somebody dead on their

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Speaker 1: own sofa and you come up for parole in just

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Speaker 1: six years. There was outrage and out pouring of anger

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Speaker 1: when she came up for parole. I mean, she's only

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Speaker 1: got a ten year sentence for Pete's sake. Luckily the

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Speaker 1: parole board denied her parole. Now the civil trial, what happened.

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Speaker 2: I am faithful because of both them, as you are,

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Speaker 2: Nadi at times when you feel like giving up. I

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Speaker 2: could not give up because of both them. I'm right

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Speaker 2: now in his death. I can never give up because

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Speaker 2: I know that both them is singing with the angels,

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Speaker 2: and I want to join that choir.

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Speaker 1: The incredible composure of both of Jean's mother, Alison Jane,

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Speaker 1: speaking before the church congregation about her son, who was

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Speaker 1: shot dead in his own apartment, reportedly lying on sofa

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Speaker 1: or sitting on the sofa reading when a Dallas cop

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Speaker 1: a female Amber Geiger comes in and opens fire, joining me.

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, a private eye, former cop, Kathleen Murphy, North

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Speaker 1: Carolina lawyer Karen Start, New York psychologist and syndicated talk

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Speaker 1: show host Dave Mack. Let's start with you, Vincent Hill.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of it?

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Speaker 4: Nancy?

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Speaker 5: There's so many things missing here that I questioned with

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Speaker 5: this story.

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Speaker 4: I mean, she.

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Speaker 5: Says she went in, she saw a guide which she

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Speaker 5: thought was her apartment.

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Speaker 4: But here's the thing.

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Speaker 5: As a police officer, if I'm yelling commands, I would

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Speaker 5: expect some neighbor to be able to say yes I heard,

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Speaker 5: or say show me your hands or something like that.

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Speaker 5: You didn't hear any reports of that, Nancy. And we

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Speaker 5: also tell citizens, hey, if you get to your house

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Speaker 5: and you see your doors open, don't go in, come

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Speaker 5: out and call police. Why didn't she call for backup

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Speaker 5: if her door was a jar as she cleaned, And

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Speaker 5: more importantly, where's this miss key reading? If she put

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Speaker 5: her key into that door? Because it's all electronic, it's

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Speaker 5: all monitored, so we should be able to go in

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Speaker 5: and see. Yes, she did indeed put the key in

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Speaker 5: the door. But I don't think we'll be able to

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Speaker 5: see that.

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Speaker 1: Now you said something very important. Well, everything you said

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Speaker 1: was critical in my mind, Vincent Hill, you're a former

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Speaker 1: cop turned private eye speaking of the neighbors not hearing

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Speaker 1: her say stand down, stand down, put your arms up,

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Speaker 1: put your hands in the hair. No. In fact, witnesses

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Speaker 1: are coming forward claiming they heard bamming on the door

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Speaker 1: and a woman yelling out, let me in, Let me

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Speaker 1: in now, Vincent Hill, eyewitness testimony is often attacked under

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Speaker 1: cross exam. What about ear witness?

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Speaker 5: I think there's no question these neighbors heard exactly what

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Speaker 5: they heard. The problem, of course, when this goes to

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Speaker 5: trial is how can you identify that voice? You know?

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Speaker 5: But at this point that's neither here nor there. More importantly, Nancy,

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Speaker 5: I would expect someone because trust me as a police officer,

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Speaker 5: and I did that job for many years. If I'm

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Speaker 5: yelling at someone with commands and my weapon is drawn,

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Speaker 5: you better believe the entire neighborhood would.

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Speaker 4: Be able to hear me.

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Speaker 1: Man, you're not kidding about that. If you've ever been

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Speaker 1: at a seine when CoP's yelled put your hands up,

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Speaker 1: put your hands up, they are screaming it out. Kathleen,

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Speaker 1: Murphy that I'm a North Carolina lawyer, Kathleen, I can't

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Speaker 1: help but wonder if there's some connection between both of them,

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Speaker 1: and both of them, Jean and Amber Geiger the cop

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Speaker 1: just because the story doesn't make sense to me. But

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Speaker 1: on another note, when I'm saying eyewitness testimony is often

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Speaker 1: attacked in court, your witness testimony could be a problem

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Speaker 1: as well, unless there's more than one witness saying they

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Speaker 1: heard it.

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Speaker 6: Well, there is a connection Nancy, and I'd like to

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Speaker 6: read this, But she wrote a complaint to the apartment

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Speaker 6: complex about our victim that he was making too much noise,

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Speaker 6: and that was about a week before this incident happened.

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Speaker 6: And Vincent makes wonderful But on a previous show, he

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Speaker 6: also made a point that she would have not gone

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Speaker 6: into a dark room. She would have had her flashfight

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Speaker 6: on and both of the sister said, she's afraid, he's

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Speaker 6: afraid of the dark. So was he reading a book

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Speaker 6: in the dark. And there's just too many holes in

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Speaker 6: the story. And there is a connection there.

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Speaker 1: You know, she had only lived in the building for

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Speaker 1: a very short time. It was a very expensive building.

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Speaker 1: The prices in the block. It's Dallas's gentrifying South Side

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Speaker 1: area started nine forty five, rising to twenty four hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty five dollars a month. Now the Dallas Police

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Speaker 1: headquarters on La Mar Street is directly next door. Now,

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Speaker 1: this guy both of Jean was a graduate of Harding

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Speaker 1: University in Arkansas. Now, it appeared that both he and

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Speaker 1: Geiger had good relations with all of their neighbors. I'm

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Speaker 1: very curious about this noise report that you're telling me

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Speaker 1: about that she filed on him. I know there were

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Speaker 1: noise complaints that day about upstairs activity in his apartment.

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Speaker 1: He got a call about noise coming from his apartment

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Speaker 1: from the downstairs neighbor. That had to be her. Is

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Speaker 1: that the report you're talking about, Kathleen.

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Speaker 4: It is the report I'm talking about.

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Speaker 6: And I don't know if it's a written report or not.

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Speaker 6: I don't know if she called it in. But there's

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Speaker 6: a report out there made by her against our victim.

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Speaker 1: Now, according to his family, they say they did not

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Speaker 1: know each other. There's no relationship, Katches. She had only

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Speaker 1: been living there a month, a little over a month

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Speaker 1: prior to the shooting, and that, if it's her, had

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Speaker 1: already been complaining about noise overhead. I'm looking at her

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Speaker 1: right now and him according again according to his family,

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Speaker 1: no relationship to Karen Start New York psychologists. We now

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Speaker 1: have complaints that the victim in this case, both of Jane,

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Speaker 1: who never has had any police problem nothing, is now

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Speaker 1: being attacked and dragged through the mud his reputation.

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Speaker 7: Why I would think that that would have to do

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Speaker 7: with the fact that she's a police officer, Nancy. So

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Speaker 7: they're trying to find ways to make it look like

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Speaker 7: he was doing something wrong, there was something suspicious going on,

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Speaker 7: trying to back her up in some way by denigrating

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Speaker 7: this guy, which it's along with the whole story is

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Speaker 7: a mess because it doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Speaker 7: This is a good kid who really sounds like he

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Speaker 7: was sitting there innocently and was shot. And I wonder

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Speaker 7: how about her own anger the policewoman. It's so, was

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Speaker 7: she excessively aggressive? Did she have a history where people

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Speaker 7: knew that? What's her history in the police force?

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Speaker 8: Too?

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Speaker 1: Well? What they're saying right now on their complaints, Dallas

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Speaker 1: police investigators seeking evidence, reportedly, according to their critics, to

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Speaker 1: discredit both of Jane, who was shot dead by a

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Speaker 1: white off duty officer. Now that's according to the victims family.

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Speaker 1: Police did execute multiple search warrant at both of his

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Speaker 1: apartment in the aftermath of the killing, and complaints are

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Speaker 1: they should have been in her apartment looking for whatever

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Speaker 1: they could find evidence relevant to the homicide investigation, but

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Speaker 1: instead they were looking in his apartment. What about that,

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Speaker 1: your former con vincent Hill.

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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, I can understand the search warrant of his

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Speaker 5: apartment simply because it was an active crime scene, right.

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Speaker 5: There was a shooting there, so I understand that piece

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Speaker 5: of it. But what they found in that search warrant

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Speaker 5: has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. There's reports

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Speaker 5: that ten point five grahams of marijuana were found there,

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Speaker 5: So what he was in his apartment, if he's using

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Speaker 5: marijuana for recreational use, who cares? It has absolutely nothing

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Speaker 5: to do with the shooting. But I would assume a

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Speaker 5: defense attorney will come back and say, well, there was

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Speaker 5: marijuana found, that's why he wasn't listening to her commands

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Speaker 5: and that's what caused the shooting. I think that's what

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Speaker 5: the intent hears.

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Speaker 1: Nancy, Well, what about the use of deadly force? If

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Speaker 1: she just says in her own statement that she saw

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Speaker 1: him and took out her pistol, took out her firearm.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand that that is the correct standard for

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Speaker 1: an officer to use deadly force. Vincent.

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Speaker 5: Well, any citizen can do that, Nancy, if you come

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Speaker 5: into your home and you see someone in there, and

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Speaker 5: you can protect your domicile in that way up to

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Speaker 5: deadly force. So I understand that part. But what I

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Speaker 5: don't understand is based on her training and based on

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Speaker 5: what we tell citizens to do, she should have handled

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Speaker 5: that totally different. I didn't see any reports that she

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Speaker 5: keyed up on the radio to dispatch to say, there's

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Speaker 5: someone in my apartment, send backup. Nothing like that, Nancy.

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Speaker 5: Only until she called nine to one from her cell

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Speaker 5: phone did she even alert police that something was going on.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. When the police go in

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Speaker 1: to search, it's signs of life, and they're very poignant.

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Speaker 1: A half eaten bowl of cereal, a flip flop still

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Speaker 1: lying there where he was killed. Metal fire doors that

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Speaker 1: slam locked, contradicting her claims that it was open and

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Speaker 1: she went in. I'm looking at the scenes and it

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Speaker 1: looks as if he was sitting there, maybe even having

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Speaker 1: cereal and reading. I'm looking at it. It's an autobiography

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Speaker 1: of Gucci Maine. There's this flip flop the home with

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Speaker 1: a large stack of pillows on the sofa, pillows and

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Speaker 1: blankets there. I'm just looking at it. Looks like a

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Speaker 1: typical guy's home, kind of messy, kind of clean, and

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Speaker 1: I can imagine him sitting there, minding his own business

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Speaker 1: just before he is gunned down. Right now, joining me

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Speaker 1: as special guest, the lawyer for both of Jean's family,

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Speaker 1: longtime friend and colleague, Benjamin Krump. Ben thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Now, why are you sure

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Speaker 1: or are you sure that the shooting was racially motivated?

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Speaker 4: We don't have any evidence at this time to demonstrate

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Speaker 4: one of whether racism was a factor in this crime.

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Speaker 1: I would be more focused at this point on finding motive.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the state doesn't have to prove motive, but

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Speaker 1: in this case, any jury is going to want to

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Speaker 1: know the motive if it's not a racially motivated crime.

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Speaker 1: For instance, I know that she the officer had complained

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Speaker 1: and made a noise complaint. Did they have words? Was

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Speaker 1: she angry? Was he angry? According to witnesses now emerging,

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Speaker 1: they heard a woman bamming on a door saying let

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Speaker 1: me in, let me in. But let me ask you this, Ben,

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Speaker 1: do you have any reason to believe Officer Geiger and

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Speaker 1: both of them Jane had any connection before the shooting, like

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Speaker 1: some kind of relationship.

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Speaker 4: Again, we don't have any information to know that at

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Speaker 4: this time. And then it's one of the big things

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Speaker 4: is we're waiting to get the phone records not only

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Speaker 4: from both them, Joan, but also from the police officer's

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Speaker 4: phone records to determine if they had any interaction whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: You know, everyone with me, Benjamin Crump, Ben, how could

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Speaker 1: Geiger not know it wasn't her apartment because of the

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Speaker 1: big rent and I mean red candy apple read rug

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Speaker 1: you know, one of those semi circular rugs doormats, and

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Speaker 1: there was a different number. Not only that it was

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Speaker 1: lit up in neon, Ben, It's.

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Speaker 4: Just mind boggling when you think about it, both of them,

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Speaker 4: John had a big red rug right out front his

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Speaker 4: apartment for the very reason people would know that that

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Speaker 4: was his apartment. Also, when you think about the probable cause, Affidavid,

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Speaker 4: that they used to issue a warrant in that statement,

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Speaker 4: the Texas Rangers, based on what we believe could only

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Speaker 4: be her account says that the door was a jar,

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Speaker 4: that it wasn't locked, and that's hard to believe when

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Speaker 4: you look at that door, how it has a very

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Speaker 4: heavy lash that pulls the door close it. The door

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Speaker 4: won't stay open on its own. And the fact that

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Speaker 4: she claims to have put the key in the door, well,

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Speaker 4: if the door is open, why would you put the

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Speaker 4: key in the door. These are things that just trouble

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Speaker 4: both of them. John's family to no end because they

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Speaker 4: still cannot understand why he is in his apartment, minding

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Speaker 4: his business, doing everything he has the legal right to do,

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Speaker 4: and the police officer breaks in and kills him, and

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Speaker 4: now she's attempting to claim in some way a self

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Speaker 4: defense argument. It just makes no sense to them at all.

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Speaker 1: I mean, guys, gotta look at this from both of

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Speaker 1: Jane's family point of view, or you think about it,

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Speaker 1: if you're in your own home and a cop comes

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Speaker 1: in the front door and shoots you dead while you're

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Speaker 1: in your own home. There was a half eaten bowl

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Speaker 1: of cereal, there were books laying around. Was He's just

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Speaker 1: sitting there having cereal reading a book, and now he's dead.

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Speaker 1: We are looking for answers, and to you, Vincent Hill,

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Speaker 1: former cop turned PI Vincent, did you hear what Ben

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Speaker 1: just said? And he's right. I've been concerned about this

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Speaker 1: big metal door. We just played it. You can hear

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Speaker 1: it slam shut, and I can relate to that because

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Speaker 1: that's the way the door is in our apartment in

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Speaker 1: New York. It slams shut. I have to rig it

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Speaker 1: to make it be open. Like if I go out

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Speaker 1: to throw trash down the chute down the hall, I

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Speaker 1: have to rig the door to make it stay open,

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Speaker 1: or it will shut behind me and I'll be out

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Speaker 1: in the hall. So we play that. You can hear

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Speaker 1: the door shutting. But listen to this Vistenthill. Based on

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Speaker 1: what Ben Crump just said, Officer Guy Gerut does say

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Speaker 1: she used her key. Now I think it's an electronic key.

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Speaker 1: But if the door was a jar, why would she

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Speaker 1: need to use her key? Why would you even go

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Speaker 1: in if the door is open when you get home? Vincent,

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Speaker 1: this story doesn't make sense.

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Speaker 5: Well, Nancy, there's just too many contradictions in what she says.

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Speaker 5: It was a jar, but I used my key with

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Speaker 5: she's an electronic key. Again, I want to see a

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Speaker 5: record that the wrong key was put in to his door.

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Speaker 5: That should be recorded because all of that is electronic.

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Speaker 5: But police officers tell people when you come to your house,

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Speaker 5: your door is ajar call us, wait for us to

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Speaker 5: go in and clear it. And I'm troubled that I

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Speaker 5: didn't hear any radio transmission from this officer saying, Hey,

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Speaker 5: someone's at my house policing some additional units, so we

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Speaker 5: can go in and clear my house. Because she didn't

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Speaker 5: know if it was her apartment, what was on the

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Speaker 5: other side of that door. It could have been five

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Speaker 5: or six people waiting there to ambush her, So why

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Speaker 5: would she just go in.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's another thing. To doctor Lauren Howard, New York

433
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Speaker 1: Psychologists joining me, Lauren, here's the thing she probably, and

434
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 1: I'm projecting, felt that as a cop, she had to explain,

435
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: I had to say something, give some explanation. Okay, she

436
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: couldn't take the field for Pete's sake, but her story

437
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: is getting all twisted up.

438
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 8: Well, it's getting all twisted up because when a story

439
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,679
Speaker 8: gets twisted up, what if to tell you that the

440
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 8: story's not accurate. You know, one thing we know is

441
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 8: police do gather around one another. I mean, it's pretty

442
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 8: rare for police to get convicted.

443
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 9: And that's wrong. I mean, that is patently wrong. Whether

444
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 9: this was racially motivated or based on a past history

445
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 9: between the two of them, some disagreement they had, or

446
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 9: simply just she screwed up, walked in the wrong apartment,

447
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 9: saw a large person and shot first. It doesn't mat.

448
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: I mean when you say cops around each other, they're

449
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: like family because they've been in basically combat conditions for

450
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: years on end, and in their mind they're like, I

451
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: know her, she did not do this on purpose. But

452
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: they may or may not be wrong. I hear what

453
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: you're saying. Back to Ben Krump, the family lawyer for

454
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: both of Jean's family, Ben, what does the family learn,

455
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: if anything, from all the neighbors. I understand they've come

456
00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: forward to you with information about what they heard that night.

457
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 4: Certainly there were neighbors who came forward to the family

458
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 4: and they believed that they heard not only conversation or

459
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 4: verbal communication before the gun shots, they also heard knocking

460
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 4: at the door on more than one occasion before they

461
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 4: heard the gun shots. So if this was allegedly her apartment,

462
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: So she says, why would she be knocking on a door,

463
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 4: that door that was open. In their mind, so they

464
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 4: don't think the things that are coming out in the

465
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 4: media are accurate. So that's why they came forward to

466
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 4: the family, and we then forwarded them to the District

467
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 4: Attorney's office and the law enforcement authorities to make sure

468
00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: that their statements were recorded for the use of information

469
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 4: gathering in this case. Also, I might add that she

470
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 4: admits that there were a verbal commands that she issued.

471
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 4: I want to ask you this, Nacy. You in your apartment,

472
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 4: somebody comes in and they starts yelling at you. Iss

473
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 4: in verbal commands, wouldn't the person say something back in response? Well,

474
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 4: based on what we know from this affidavit, she claims

475
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 4: that both of them, John doesn't say anything in response.

476
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 4: In fact, she claims that she just sees this dark

477
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 4: figure in the shadows and she shoots into the apartment

478
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 4: from outside the apartment. Now, this is something that I

479
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: don't believe even a reasonable citizen would do. But this

480
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 4: is supposed to be a well trained police officer. Where

481
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: is that in the training, Nancy? Where is that in

482
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 4: the policy? Will you shoot into a dark apartment that

483
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 4: you don't know who is in there. Why couldn't she

484
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 4: have just taken the perimeter if she felt her place

485
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: was being burglarized and called for backup. The police department

486
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: was less than three minutes from this apartment complex. There

487
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 4: is no reason both of them Johns should be dead.

488
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 4: Black people get killed in some of the most offortrayed

489
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 4: ways in America. You know, driving while black while we're

490
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 4: in our automobiles, walking while black while we're in our neighborhoods.

491
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: And now it's living while black while we're in our

492
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 4: own apartments and houses, doing everything that we have the

493
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 4: legal right to do. And that's what's so outrageous about

494
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 4: this case. Not only is it shocking to both them

495
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 4: Jones family, it is astonishing to many sensible people, not

496
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 4: only in America but all around the world.

497
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: AMBERGI are convicted of murder, got just ten years in prison.

498
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: She appealed her conviction, lost the appeal, and then within

499
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: just a few short years came up for parole. How

500
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: is that possible? Wisely, the parole board denied it. Then

501
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: Geiger faced a civil suit by the victim's family, which

502
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: she just lost. Now she owes nearly one hundred million dollars.

503
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 1: Botham's family still distraught over his untimely death, the award

504
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: of nearly one hundred million dollars is cold consolation for

505
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: the death of her son. There's also the likelihood they'll

506
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: never be paid. Now. Somehow, attorneys must convince the court

507
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: system that the city is also liable, not just Amber Geiger.

508
00:32:53,640 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: We wait as just as unfolds good life