Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with Higheartradios.
Speaker 2: And Katie.
Speaker 3: Gee. Do you remember being at the table read and
Speaker 3: reading for the first time ever that Quinn and Hawk
Speaker 3: were gonna bone down?
Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, Oh absolutely. I was so excited.
Speaker 3: Because you wanted to make out with me so bad. Yeah, duh.
Speaker 3: You were ready to take our friendship to the next level.
Speaker 3: All of you fans that think Germo Diaz is the hottest.
Speaker 3: He is a fucking awesome kiss.
Speaker 4: So is Katie. So are you please?
Speaker 3: Thank you? I take pride in my kissing skills.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be a good kisser if the other
Speaker 1: person isn't a good kisser too, you know true.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about it today. I was like, my god,
Speaker 3: welcome to married life. I haven't had a great makeout
Speaker 3: session a hot minute. Someone call Adam Shapiro.
Speaker 4: Yo.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had to train somebody to try to
Speaker 1: train them as you're making out to be a good kisser.
Speaker 3: Oh? I have not found yet somebody who was like
Speaker 3: a bad kisser that I trained like successfully? Have you
Speaker 3: me either?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: I've tried, but it's never It never results in a
Speaker 1: you know in a positive outcome.
Speaker 3: I feel the same way. It's like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: it might take if someone's got like a different maybe
Speaker 3: kind of style, and you like keep going and like
Speaker 3: you figure out where you're in sync and where you're not.
Speaker 3: G and I were in sync.
Speaker 1: We were in sing baby, it's kinna a May, It's
Speaker 1: a kinna a May. We were so insane. We were
Speaker 1: backstreet boys, we were new kids on the block, and
Speaker 1: we were in sanktch.
Speaker 3: I was nervous when I read it. I was like,
Speaker 3: you're having sex on guys. This is episode three seventeen.
Speaker 3: We're talking about today, but it's Gee and it's Hock
Speaker 3: and Quinn having sex on the top of the car.
Speaker 3: He rips these fishnet stockings. I slapped the shit out
Speaker 3: of his face. He spits on my neck and then
Speaker 3: he licks it off. Oh I'm getting all hot and
Speaker 3: bothered talking about it.
Speaker 1: Some of that stuff was improvy, at least the spitting.
Speaker 1: I don't think that was in the script. I think
Speaker 1: that just happened. I remember afterwards, I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm so sorry. Is that okay? K?
Speaker 3: You were like, yeah, we had no safe word. I
Speaker 3: feel like we were so close by the time we
Speaker 3: got this that it was like, I think that's what
Speaker 3: made it so good. It was like, you know a
Speaker 3: lot of people when you're going to be a love
Speaker 3: interest with someone you meet pretty early on and you
Speaker 3: start hooking up pretty early on and you become friends after, right,
Speaker 3: But us it was the opposite. We were already friends
Speaker 3: and then we were like.
Speaker 1: Oh shit, we had no idea. We had no idea
Speaker 1: this was going to go down. Oh my god, it's great.
Speaker 1: But you were saying earlier about the an intimacy person
Speaker 1: being on set. How what's that. I haven't worked with one.
Speaker 3: I haven't either. Want we shot this, you guys, this
Speaker 3: was before the Me Too movement. This scene was shot before.
Speaker 3: Now all of these amazing protocols have been put in
Speaker 3: place to help actors. There's a whole new job called
Speaker 3: an intimacy coordinator of someone who's on the set choreographing
Speaker 3: love scenes, sex scenes, any touching scene as if you
Speaker 3: would a stunt or. It's a stunt person on set
Speaker 3: choreographing a fight. Now you have an intimacy coordinator choreographing
Speaker 3: making out scenes and love scenes. Yeah, you put your
Speaker 3: hand on her here and you spin her around here
Speaker 3: and you lay down on this line, and then you're
Speaker 3: going to switch places and he's on top. Now she's
Speaker 3: on top, and it's mapped out. We didn't have that.
Speaker 1: No, all, Where do you have to go to get
Speaker 1: to be an intimacy expert?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it's I'm currently working on a
Speaker 3: show that has a lot of steamy sex. Oh really,
Speaker 3: maybe this is a spoiler, whatever, but thank god I
Speaker 3: am not involved or not. You're like, well, no, now
Speaker 3: that we've spent all this time talking about hooking up
Speaker 3: and that G and I are the best kissers we've
Speaker 3: each other ever had, we have to tell you that
Speaker 3: we are bringing to you live one of the most
Speaker 3: talented individuals to ever be born on the face of
Speaker 3: the planet.
Speaker 4: An icon, I would say, an icon.
Speaker 3: Icon allegend, truly a diva, not in the sense of behavior,
Speaker 3: but in the sense of just killing it and being
Speaker 3: at the top of her game in so many arenas
Speaker 3: it's bananas.
Speaker 4: For decades now.
Speaker 3: She's prolific. Yes, and we are so lucky to have
Speaker 3: her on this show, and we were so lucky to
Speaker 3: have her on this episode. She's the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1: We had do some difficult stuff, some intimate stuff and
Speaker 1: some riskue stuff. And I don't know about you, but
Speaker 1: I felt super safe knowing that she was at the
Speaker 1: helm guiding us. And with this woman, it's always it
Speaker 1: was always so much fun being on set with her.
Speaker 1: She does this really funny thing after you're done with
Speaker 1: a take, What does she say here?
Speaker 3: And she likes if she feels like she got the
Speaker 3: take that she likes, and like, this is the one
Speaker 3: we're gonna use in the edit, It'll be like and
Speaker 3: cut Hello.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what she says hello, And I think it's
Speaker 1: basically her asking everyone the camera the sound everyone, Hey,
Speaker 1: is everything good with you guys? Hello?
Speaker 4: Because if it's good, I love it. Let's move on.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's move on. Is everyone approved? Did it get
Speaker 3: through on sound? Then let's move on.
Speaker 4: I love it. I love it. I love it.
Speaker 3: We're talking about episode three seventeen, titled Flesh and Blood,
Speaker 3: which aired on April tenth in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1: And it was written by Severiano Canalez and Miguel Noya Severano.
Speaker 4: But we call him, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3: It's amazing, the name Severiano. I've never called him that.
Speaker 1: Game there, we just call him Seve and it was
Speaker 1: directed by the Legend the Icon The Woman.
Speaker 3: Our Guest de Bi Ellen, and it was guest starring
Speaker 3: Keith sellin Wright as Garrett Cole, Harry S. Murphy as Mayor,
Speaker 3: Johnny Cross Coostrey as A, Petro Candy Alexander as Maya.
Speaker 1: Lewis Nazanine Boniatti as Adnan Salif, Sebastian Rochets, Dominic Bell
Speaker 1: Brian Lesher's Tom Larson, and Carlo Prota as Ivan Yushkin.
Speaker 3: And to just jog y'all's memory, this is what happens
Speaker 3: in the episode. In order for the OPA team to
Speaker 3: track down Maya, Pope and the bomb, they must bring
Speaker 3: in some questionable new team members, and when Dominic doesn't
Speaker 3: give up Maya or the location, we get to learn
Speaker 3: more about the Pope family's true colors.
Speaker 1: But things take a dark turn with Maya. When Maya
Speaker 1: shows up at OPA, while some key members of the
Speaker 1: team are a little distracted, I think she means I
Speaker 1: think that means quinnin.
Speaker 3: Hockey, Debbie, you are so gorgeous and so special and
Speaker 3: we wanted to ask when you get a scene and
Speaker 3: you think that you've got it, like the take that
Speaker 3: you just took and you say hello. Is that your
Speaker 3: way of making sure that every department also agrees and
Speaker 3: now we can move on.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something that came into being when I was
Speaker 5: doing Fame, when I first started directing. Oh, and I
Speaker 5: will get something and I get a tick that I
Speaker 5: like and I go hello, And that means everybody talk
Speaker 5: to me quick, because I'm going to move on.
Speaker 2: I'm not waiting to tell me about sound or light.
Speaker 2: You better be watching while we're doing it. So hello
Speaker 2: means I'm ready. Are you good? If I don't get nothing,
Speaker 2: were moving on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh, Debbie, it's the best. It's stuck with us
Speaker 1: and we talk about it all the time.
Speaker 3: It's so special.
Speaker 1: Yes, you mentioned Fame, but you did the film first.
Speaker 1: You did Fame the film first, right in the early eighties.
Speaker 1: He was like nineteen eighty right, Yeah, it was when
Speaker 1: it was released.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Irenkara, I was actually cast to be her nemesis.
Speaker 5: I'm a senior student that was going to give her
Speaker 5: let her know she was not miss thing that.
Speaker 2: I will know.
Speaker 5: But by the time Alan Parker got to where he
Speaker 5: was going to shoot my number said, Debbie, I love you,
Speaker 5: but the movie's already ten hours long.
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to cut the number. I said, really,
Speaker 2: I said, can I keep the dress? Such the dress?
Speaker 5: And so my whole character translated as a student teacher
Speaker 5: or young teacher.
Speaker 2: That's how that's what happened.
Speaker 4: Yes, Lydia, what was Lydia's last name?
Speaker 2: Do you remember, miss Lydia Grant?
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my god, my goodness. I as a young
Speaker 1: person who knew they wanted to be an actor, that
Speaker 1: show was just such a beacon of light, and it
Speaker 1: was so inspiring and so exciting to see the school
Speaker 1: that existed where people could just express themselves and be artists.
Speaker 1: And oh, it was just it's such a special show
Speaker 1: to me and and to so many people. And you're
Speaker 1: so wonderful in it. And your famous line, which I'm
Speaker 1: sure you're sick of people asking you to say.
Speaker 2: Yes, want fame cost costs? Right here right he is
Speaker 2: in sweat.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 5: Life art imitates life. And so now I really do
Speaker 5: have that school, the Debbieon Dance Academy. Yes, I do
Speaker 5: Art Center, and we're teaching everything. We have a middle school, sixth,
Speaker 5: seventh and eighth grade. I have a Rise musical theater program.
Speaker 5: I have a son's daughter boys program.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can have a Fair to Be.
Speaker 5: Class that is a class of art and art class
Speaker 5: for transgender youth and feel comfortable in the room in
Speaker 5: this space.
Speaker 3: So, my gosh, Debbie, the legacy you are creating and
Speaker 3: already have been for decades and it's just unbelievable. You
Speaker 3: guys have such an amazing relationship, you and Shonda Rhymes.
Speaker 3: How did you end up in shan on the land
Speaker 3: and directing and come to be? And that we got
Speaker 3: lucky enough to get you on.
Speaker 5: You know, I was a big fan of Gray's Anatomy
Speaker 5: first of all, and the show had been on for
Speaker 5: several years, and I looked up and Shonda Rhymes was
Speaker 5: one of my parents.
Speaker 2: She brought her daughter.
Speaker 3: Dancing there and so.
Speaker 5: I actually intentionally didn't talk to her for almost the
Speaker 5: first year. I really would just say hello, keep moving,
Speaker 5: because I felt like she deserved the anonymity of any
Speaker 5: parent to be there for her child. And that's what
Speaker 5: it was. And I actually developed quite a wonderful relationship
Speaker 5: with her older daughter, Harper. She was the first one
Speaker 5: to come. The other two came as well. Harper was
Speaker 5: very creative, and I was tough on her and trying
Speaker 5: to really respect that, and I think she just started
Speaker 5: paying attention to what I was doing. And the next
Speaker 5: thing I knew, I was asked to direct Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 2: I Sai Child, let's about time.
Speaker 5: Let me get over there, and then I just started
Speaker 5: doing Scandal, and Scandal was my favorite show.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: We were going to ask you, oh yeah, because you
Speaker 5: won't remember this because this was early on. And there
Speaker 5: was a panel. You know how they have the Academy
Speaker 5: panels where the whole cast comes, you're up for an
Speaker 5: Emmy Award, and the audience gets to ask a question.
Speaker 5: I stood up and asked a question, and I wanted
Speaker 5: to know when did she know so and so was
Speaker 5: going to kill get killed?
Speaker 2: Did she know it in the beginning? Has she planned it?
Speaker 2: She said? Do you want the truth? And you want
Speaker 2: I said, I want the truth? She said, don't. We
Speaker 2: figured it out just before we did it.
Speaker 5: And she talked about being so spontaneous in terms of
Speaker 5: really paying attention to dailies, seeing what chemistry was.
Speaker 2: Working, where things seen that would be rich to go to.
Speaker 5: And I started directing Gray's anatomy and they really enjoyed
Speaker 5: me over there. I had so much fun, and then
Speaker 5: I got invited to direct.
Speaker 3: You're a huge dog over there acting. You're the producing director.
Speaker 3: I feel like you run all of Gray's. I'm like,
Speaker 3: that's Debbie.
Speaker 5: I'm like, and I've become the villain on the show
Speaker 5: down too. Yeah, I'm really a good villain. It is
Speaker 5: something I really like playing. It's fun.
Speaker 3: So was it your idea? Did you say I want
Speaker 3: to direct a scandal?
Speaker 2: Or did I want to direct Scandal?
Speaker 3: God?
Speaker 4: Yeah, show, but I want to come over there.
Speaker 5: She invited me to come and I was so excited
Speaker 5: and I going in as a director.
Speaker 2: Every director, when you're coming into a new show, you
Speaker 2: they you deserve to study the DNA.
Speaker 5: Of that show. Every show has its own DNA. That
Speaker 5: means what is the style of the cinematography. There was
Speaker 5: a scandal pace, the way you all talked, there was
Speaker 5: a whole thing, and that DNA was different from Gray's,
Speaker 5: different from How to Get Away. I did all of those,
Speaker 5: but Scandal was just it was everything. It was hot,
Speaker 5: it was sexy, it was political, it was pushing the
Speaker 5: envelope on race relations in America and the President child,
Speaker 5: I'm locked up in a closet, I said, I got
Speaker 5: to come over there, Sean, And.
Speaker 2: It so hot.
Speaker 3: That scene is so hot. I thought the same way.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. When we were watching
Speaker 3: it back, I'm like, no wonder. I didn't realize when
Speaker 3: we were shooting it, But now that we're watching it
Speaker 3: back for this podcast, when that scene happened in the closet,
Speaker 3: I was like, I get it.
Speaker 5: This is the hottest in America. We were all and
Speaker 5: when I was directed Tony Goldman, I would call him
Speaker 5: mister President. I had the biggest crush on him, mister President,
Speaker 5: you're thinking, and he were just laughing at me. Jill
Speaker 5: Morten had been my brother on Broadway and raising so
Speaker 5: now his little sister tell him what to do. And
Speaker 5: then Maya had been on a different world. She came
Speaker 5: out of the dance world. Do you know that she
Speaker 5: came out of the dance.
Speaker 2: Was a dancer.
Speaker 3: Candy Alexander was a dancer, fierce dancer.
Speaker 1: Debbie didn't she choreograph a bunch of Whitney Houston's world tours?
Speaker 2: She may have.
Speaker 4: I don't know, yeh.
Speaker 2: Candy is as we say, she's the ship.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she's amazing, she's so talented. So only she, honey,
Speaker 5: with those legs, and were not had jug up against
Speaker 5: that plaw honey.
Speaker 3: Weeks to talk about that.
Speaker 2: We have to talk.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back, guys.
Speaker 3: This episode, this was the first time that Quinn hunkot
Speaker 3: sex and I was I will never forget g and
Speaker 3: I were just saying before you came on that we
Speaker 3: were so lucky that it was you because we felt
Speaker 3: so comfortable, so safe, and I'll never forget it. I'm
Speaker 3: a woman in Hollywood, and so everyone has things they
Speaker 3: wish they could change, but mine happens to be in
Speaker 3: front of millions of people and I'm about to have
Speaker 3: a sex scene with Guermo, and you just made me
Speaker 3: feel I remember you coming up to me and you
Speaker 3: looked up and down like your dancer. You look at
Speaker 3: people's bodies, they're dancers, they're movers, and you looked at
Speaker 3: me and you were like you're hot, like something like that,
Speaker 3: and it was all I needed to feel like, yeah,
Speaker 3: Quinn's hot, Quin's got this, we can dominate this scene.
Speaker 3: And I don't know, you really just empowered me to
Speaker 3: feel like I could do it. I was scared.
Speaker 5: I know that is the job of a really, I don't.
Speaker 5: I'm not trying to pat myself a good director.
Speaker 3: You are, You're one of our all time paperites died.
Speaker 5: You so that you can find the reality of the
Speaker 5: moments that you're playing in the relationships and let it
Speaker 5: be truthful and be free of worn about what the
Speaker 5: camera is looking at.
Speaker 2: That you trust, you trust. I'm not going to show
Speaker 2: anything that we don't want to see or that you
Speaker 2: might not want to see. That I know how to
Speaker 2: shoot it and keep you beautiful, sexy and go yes.
Speaker 2: And then I went up to Canaday Alexander's legs.
Speaker 4: Yes, Oh that was the best.
Speaker 1: You see those heels and those legs walk past us
Speaker 1: like having this like croz.
Speaker 2: My god, it's right.
Speaker 3: She walks past us having sex. And then that's how
Speaker 3: she gets into Opa. And then she like slices Joe
Speaker 3: Morton's she screws him up. I don't know what she says,
Speaker 3: she'sa she does something terrible.
Speaker 1: Was was this the first episode you directed of Scandal, Debbie,
Speaker 1: or when you already directed.
Speaker 2: Some No, I just I started before this.
Speaker 5: I think I think one of my first I can't remember,
Speaker 5: but I just remember Carrie was pregnant at the time,
Speaker 5: and she was carrying a lot of things, and that
Speaker 5: you all were. You were all in the office, all
Speaker 5: of you, and they were like eight of you. And
Speaker 5: I said, Okay, you're gonna go here and walk here.
Speaker 5: When she says this, could you enter here? And then
Speaker 5: could you go and find something over here to read?
Speaker 5: I remember when I finished doing what I call broad
Speaker 5: strokes of blocking. Karen Washing said, choreogphy, choreophy, chourreophy. I said,
Speaker 5: I think being an actor and coming out of the
Speaker 5: dance world really gives me another critical I as a
Speaker 5: director in terms of what is the actor playing. I
Speaker 5: really try to play everybody's part, so I know what
Speaker 5: I'm thinking your subtext is and how you feel about
Speaker 5: what's happening, and then you all.
Speaker 2: Add all that you bring to it. You all brought
Speaker 2: it though, Honey, let's just say it out loud.
Speaker 3: You are the best. I mean. The other thing I
Speaker 3: remember so well from this episode is at the end
Speaker 3: we've found Dominic whoever his last name is, I don't
Speaker 3: know his last name, but this guy who maya pope
Speaker 3: was like always in love with and turns out we
Speaker 3: find out in this episode that Maya Pope was sleeping
Speaker 3: with this guy the whole time she was married to
Speaker 3: Eli Pope, and Eli Pope hates this guy because he
Speaker 3: has her heart and he never had it. And he
Speaker 3: runs into Huck's office where the guy is bound and
Speaker 3: gagged and has a Russian roulette game, and we think
Speaker 3: it's just a scare tactic at first, and he's not
Speaker 3: shoot him, and then I remember so well, it's crazy
Speaker 3: in the episode, but he ends up get everyone out
Speaker 3: of the room, and Olivia Pope is screaming like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: I don't want to murder your run in my office.
Speaker 3: I don't want to murder anyone, and we're all holding
Speaker 3: her back and boom bang the gun goes off and
Speaker 3: he murders him right there, and Carrie's so pregnant at
Speaker 3: this time and it's awful. She's gutturally screaming at her
Speaker 3: dad not to as we're physically holding her back, and
Speaker 3: then I remember you saying cut hello, and then we
Speaker 3: would all go down to her belly and be like,
Speaker 3: it's just pretend this is real. You're safe, nothing's really wrong.
Speaker 3: We didn't want to be doing like actual trauma.
Speaker 5: I remember this scene. I remember being in Huck's office.
Speaker 5: I remember, yeah, you at your computer. I remember Engles.
Speaker 5: It was really yeah, that was That's really something because
Speaker 5: people don't realize that sometimes they really are leaving you
Speaker 5: vicariously totally as this actor. They never think of you
Speaker 5: as somebody else as they should. That's because you're doing
Speaker 5: your job. But people are pregnant or going through all.
Speaker 4: Kinds of oh yeah, sad stuff, breakup.
Speaker 5: Yeah you want to get you said, I remember you
Speaker 5: were pregnant. I choreographed you.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, It's one of the greatest pictures I've
Speaker 3: ever taken in my whole life. I had a baby.
Speaker 3: I had my first and six weeks later I went
Speaker 3: back to work and I was so grateful that it
Speaker 3: was an episode being directed by Kerry Washington. I had
Speaker 3: to dance to Britney Spears with me and Joe Morton
Speaker 3: and a baby. I'm holding a baby and they call
Speaker 3: in miss Debbie Allen Icon to just give us four
Speaker 3: bars a short little choreography, and I remember, I'm carrying
Speaker 3: my baby. I'm breastfeeding him under like a little rap.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's so little, and I'm dancing with the
Speaker 3: one and only Joe Morton as Debbie Allen is giving
Speaker 3: us choreography, and this is my first day back at work,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I have a picture because it was
Speaker 3: such a pinch me moment.
Speaker 4: Yes it was.
Speaker 5: But you all are so wonderful. That show stands the
Speaker 5: test of time. They just need to play it over
Speaker 5: and over. Yes, it certainly is relevant right now with
Speaker 5: everything going on. You've touched on so many things. And
Speaker 5: what I loved about the show. The show was daring.
Speaker 5: It dared to let people act out their anger and
Speaker 5: their revenge and then how do they survive as human
Speaker 5: beings after that? When I think about Kate Burden.
Speaker 3: When she was when she murdered her husband, Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: Daniel Douglas, that happens in this season that we're talking
Speaker 3: about right now.
Speaker 5: Oh yes, it's one of the most dramatic things that
Speaker 5: ever happened. And just the whole show, and that it
Speaker 5: was so cutting edge and you are always so beautiful
Speaker 5: and so different. Everybody was everybody lived in their own space,
Speaker 5: a totally different space from everybody else here.
Speaker 1: Did we miss this experience so much? It was so special?
Speaker 3: Did you feel the same way that other directors we've
Speaker 3: talked to Felt, which is you get a warning, like
Speaker 3: when you come over to Opa to direct, it's a
Speaker 3: total shit show. It's like hurting cats. No one stops talking, laughing,
Speaker 3: get like in the White House, they're all adults and
Speaker 3: well behaved, and then you come over to Opa and
Speaker 3: we're all like.
Speaker 4: Dancing kids and dancing and.
Speaker 3: Singing and eating snacks and won't pay attention.
Speaker 2: You know what. I'm okay with that because I like
Speaker 2: it when there's a cast of with a family feel,
Speaker 2: where people like each other, and I feel like hurting
Speaker 2: cast is a fun thing to do for me. I
Speaker 2: remember this is Grey's Anatomy.
Speaker 5: I had all of them in the gallery scene, every
Speaker 5: last one of them, and it was like literally twenty
Speaker 5: people in that gallery scene. I said, okay, so this
Speaker 5: is what I said. You're going to be in group one.
Speaker 5: You're two, you're three or four, and you're five. I said,
Speaker 5: when I say one, I want you to react. When
Speaker 5: I say two, you react, three, come in four or five.
Speaker 2: I had done.
Speaker 5: You could think I was dealing with the Earth Debbie.
Speaker 5: You could think I was dealing with the children and
Speaker 5: my academy. But when they had a sense of when
Speaker 5: they were come, this is when you're gonna come in, bam,
Speaker 5: come in and then go And it was fantastic and
Speaker 5: nobody thought I could shoot it in this quick amount
Speaker 5: of time as I did, but I had did a
Speaker 5: system away.
Speaker 4: But you all.
Speaker 5: Joyful and I enjoyed that because you were doing so
Speaker 5: many controversial, sometimes despicable things.
Speaker 2: It was good that you kept levity going on.
Speaker 3: We had well, we couldn't have done it. Wait now,
Speaker 3: since we have you really quick? What was it like
Speaker 3: directing this is taking a total left turn? But whatever
Speaker 3: the fans are the fans. What was it like you
Speaker 3: directed How to Get Away with Murder?
Speaker 4: Too?
Speaker 2: Yes? I did?
Speaker 3: What was that like like directing Viola Davis?
Speaker 5: What I did one of her best scenes? Because I
Speaker 5: knew Viola Davis from New York. I saw her in
Speaker 5: a play and when Denzel Washington was doing Anton full Court,
Speaker 5: I said, do you know who Viola Davis is? He
Speaker 5: said no, I got to find somebody for the mother.
Speaker 5: I said, go final her. Now cast her and she
Speaker 5: didn't even really have anything to say, but she was
Speaker 5: that strong. So Viola did that. I directed her and
Speaker 5: I cast her as the mother in Fantasia Urina Burno's
Speaker 5: life is not a fairy tale.
Speaker 2: Her life story. She played her mother.
Speaker 5: Wow, so here we are scandal and she's like shot
Speaker 5: out of the canyon. She'd already taken the wig off,
Speaker 5: and I give this very historic scene where her assistant
Speaker 5: finally confessed that she was in love with her husband
Speaker 5: and that she had kissed him or something like that.
Speaker 5: And so I took the staging to a whole nother direction.
Speaker 5: I made her get on her knees and I made
Speaker 5: her kiss the ring in her CONDI and this was
Speaker 5: going to break. I knew this was going to break
Speaker 5: Viola in a whole nother way. Instead of just standing
Speaker 5: there arguing yeah, took her down and Fyo.
Speaker 2: Looked at me.
Speaker 5: She She's like, Debbie, you know what kind of girl?
Speaker 5: I Am only going to do this one time, one son, Debbie,
Speaker 5: because she was so full from the idea of what
Speaker 5: it was going to be. I knew, child, get that
Speaker 5: close up, ready is getting ready to happened.
Speaker 2: We didn't want fake And.
Speaker 5: We went down and Viola Davis was just I love
Speaker 5: working with her. She really comes in beyond prepared and
Speaker 5: having ideas about the character. It was her idea to
Speaker 5: take the wig off.
Speaker 4: She didn't want to remember that moment.
Speaker 5: I remember she wanted that that's her, that's all Viola Davis,
Speaker 5: and that's that's the truth.
Speaker 2: That she brings a woman king. She'd been a woman
Speaker 2: king for a long time.
Speaker 3: We will be back with more after the break. Do
Speaker 3: you like to direct, Debbie?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Do you love it? Did you always know when you
Speaker 3: were little that? Or like, because you were such a
Speaker 3: leader in choreography, did you feel like it? Sort of
Speaker 3: was an easy jump to make well.
Speaker 5: I studied acting and directing at Howard University. I wrote
Speaker 5: something called Snow Black. It was my adaptation of Snow White,
Speaker 5: and Snow White was a black girl that had really
Speaker 5: big breasts.
Speaker 2: It was funny.
Speaker 3: It was really us, can we do it right now?
Speaker 3: I need this immediately.
Speaker 2: It was funny.
Speaker 5: But choreography was a natural progression to directing. Out of Fame,
Speaker 5: I became their favorite director because I had it like that,
Speaker 5: and I was excited. The first time I directed Fame,
Speaker 5: I was so excited I couldn't sleep, and I kept
Speaker 5: wondering how should I dress because there were no women
Speaker 5: on the crew. There was my script supervisor and my
Speaker 5: costume designer and make up. There were no women anywhere else,
Speaker 5: and so I was trying to figure out how should dress.
Speaker 5: Should I come in a little macho? Should I come
Speaker 5: in Yeah, with a little sexy? And then I wore
Speaker 5: my overalls and lace outs and I came in prepared
Speaker 5: and they loved me because I was the quick at
Speaker 5: knowing what I've wanted.
Speaker 3: And you're good at making decisions knowing that you're the
Speaker 3: decision has been made. You have to be confident in
Speaker 3: your director. You're leading groups of people. You're leading with love,
Speaker 3: which is like what you're so good at it?
Speaker 1: Which and then that it's super infectious too, right, Katie,
Speaker 1: like on set her joy in her passion and your
Speaker 1: excitement for directing in for the show and for us,
Speaker 1: it's infectious and you start to believe that, believe it
Speaker 1: and drink that kool aid and be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: really good, I'm going to do this, and then brings
Speaker 1: the best out of you.
Speaker 4: It's infectious, It really is.
Speaker 5: It is the best moment when we're all going down
Speaker 5: that same road and in the same light together. It's
Speaker 5: just Jolyn. So I've been directing on Gray's Anatomy now
Speaker 5: twelve years.
Speaker 2: I call this Alley.
Speaker 5: Tell that to Sean Rubs. I'm twelve years a slate,
Speaker 5: but I much a good time. I'm still excited about
Speaker 5: what I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Say, it's so amazing that you're not like that, You're
Speaker 3: I don't get any sense of like, oh I'm doing this.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm so jaded already, and let's go. Debbie,
Speaker 1: please tell me that you still have those orange parachute pants.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 4: Those are my favorite.
Speaker 2: I have them in yellow, blue, purple, red, peak, just
Speaker 2: name color.
Speaker 4: I love them. I love them.
Speaker 3: I love them so much. One year Gladiators, one year
Speaker 3: Shonda Rhymes. We always did a big Halloween dress up.
Speaker 3: And one year Shanda Rhyme's dressed up for Halloween as
Speaker 3: Debbie Allen did with her parachute kind of dance pants
Speaker 3: and like a sneaker and some sort of sweater and
Speaker 3: a hat.
Speaker 5: Very cool, it's very flat. Well, listen, I hope that
Speaker 5: you all. I don't know. Maybe they could be one
Speaker 5: little reunion scandals over, but who's the same this climate,
Speaker 5: somebody couldn't pick it up and try to fix things
Speaker 5: or whatever's going on.
Speaker 3: Yes, I agree, you know, we always do a six
Speaker 3: Degrees of Horror because it's Gee's favorite thing in the
Speaker 3: entire world. Has Debbie I ever been in a horror
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I believe she hasn't, but she has directed a two
Speaker 1: thousand and three Twilight Zone episode called The Monsters on
Speaker 1: Maple Street. The Monsters are on Maple Street, Debbie. I
Speaker 1: watched it the other day and it is so good,
Speaker 1: and it's not your typical horror episode or just your
Speaker 1: typical horror thing. It's the citizens, the people, the humans
Speaker 1: are the monsters. And it was such a wonderful episode.
Speaker 5: Oh thank you get that again. That was we shopping
Speaker 5: in Toronto up in Canada. Or was it maybe not Toronto, it.
Speaker 3: Was Vancouver, Vancouver.
Speaker 2: It was Vancouver.
Speaker 5: And you know what was really funny was we was
Speaker 5: got in locations and we had the perfect location and said, oh,
Speaker 5: you'll never get that. These people never do it. I said,
Speaker 5: let me go knock on the door. I knocked on
Speaker 5: the door and she went, Lizzie, your grant.
Speaker 2: I'm like yeah, And we got the location because she
Speaker 2: was fan.
Speaker 1: Debbie was at the house where that family was living
Speaker 1: that everyone thought was like the bad guys.
Speaker 4: It's such a wonderful house.
Speaker 1: It's this sort of scary observation of how false they
Speaker 1: made up information and paranoia and jumping to conclusions contributes
Speaker 1: to our own self destruction and demise.
Speaker 4: It's super timely.
Speaker 1: These people like are thinking that this one family are
Speaker 1: the monsters, and when turned they're the monsters.
Speaker 4: It's so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah good.
Speaker 5: I know we got a television is so powerful and
Speaker 5: we have to keep doing things and making things that
Speaker 5: can help people start to think about the world and
Speaker 5: about the community a little bit better.
Speaker 2: And what is like that? Who are the real monsters?
Speaker 4: Yes, and you can check it out.
Speaker 1: It's on YouTube. I watched it on YouTube, so if
Speaker 1: anybody wants to check it out.
Speaker 3: Debbie Allen, you are the greatest. I'm trying to think
Speaker 3: if there's anything else in this episode did I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't even know if you remember if there was
Speaker 3: anything else in this episode that stood out to you
Speaker 3: before we let you go. There are a few things
Speaker 3: for me and no pressure, but I was so disgusted
Speaker 3: by Leo Bergen is paying this little cheerleader to hook
Speaker 3: up with Jerry Grant, their son and get a sperm
Speaker 3: sample so that Melly can test if he is fits
Speaker 3: his son and not Big Jerry's son. Yes, and Lee
Speaker 3: call it. I wrote something like man chowder and I
Speaker 3: almost gagged. I was like, are these writers kidding?
Speaker 4: This is so grud That actress is so good.
Speaker 3: She was so good, she was so good. I'm trying
Speaker 3: to think if there were any other like big acting wins. Oh,
Speaker 3: this is where you're doing the whole bomb was being
Speaker 3: set up, and you think that the bomb is underneath
Speaker 3: where they're doing an election speech. But then we realized
Speaker 3: that the bomb is in the funeral home, is at
Speaker 3: the funeral of the senator that was High Tower who
Speaker 3: was murdered, and it was like all staged.
Speaker 2: I remember going on location with that. I remember that,
Speaker 2: I remember shooting the stage. We were at a school
Speaker 2: somewhere and not far from the studio. I remember that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gee, did you have any other moments that you
Speaker 3: like liked.
Speaker 1: There's a moment Katie where Huck is like, Okay, I'll
Speaker 1: go find him. When you, Charlie and myself were talking
Speaker 1: about we need to find Dominic, and Huck is, let's
Speaker 1: just go out there and find him, and you and
Speaker 1: Charlie are like, no, let's do this, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: its screwed it. I'm gonna go find him. And then
Speaker 1: he comes back and he drops the body on the ground.
Speaker 1: Dominant is not dead yet. And and your face, your reaction,
Speaker 1: I think that's the moment that Quinn decided she's gonna
Speaker 1: have sex with Huck, because your reaction, your face is
Speaker 1: You're like, you're almost like licking your lips.
Speaker 3: It's just a dead body. These people were so sick.
Speaker 3: G and I haven't had intimate scenes since this new
Speaker 3: role of an intimacy coordinator, which is so awesome. And
Speaker 3: when we got this scene, G and I, before we
Speaker 3: came to said had a conversation where we were like,
Speaker 3: Quinn and Hook, they can't just movie kiss, like their
Speaker 3: pain and pleasure threshold is very confused and heightened, and
Speaker 3: so we basically were like are you cool with a
Speaker 3: lot of tongue.
Speaker 4: That was our yeah.
Speaker 3: Intimacy coordinator conversations.
Speaker 4: We were just like, I'm cool, you cool? Do whatever?
Speaker 3: Like we were like, are you cool? Do you feel
Speaker 3: safe with me? And what was so cool was we
Speaker 3: had already worked together for three years and had become
Speaker 3: such tight friends that we were like, I feel great,
Speaker 3: Let's do whatever.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was great. You all were friends and so
Speaker 5: you fell into it and it was okay. You knew
Speaker 5: you were playing your part and you all went for it.
Speaker 5: And it was so hot. Oh, it was hot.
Speaker 4: It was it was hilarious.
Speaker 3: We're on a car. And also before we let you go,
Speaker 3: the last thing. Do you remember, right before we have
Speaker 3: sex on the car, Quinn slaps the shit out of
Speaker 3: Huck and I nailed him in the ear and I
Speaker 3: couldn't tell, but g says, when you watch back the episode,
Speaker 3: his ear is like straight red and he went deaf
Speaker 3: for twenty.
Speaker 1: Debby, I couldn't hear for like twenty minutes. But listen,
Speaker 1: I'm a trooper. The show must go on. I would
Speaker 1: like to do it again.
Speaker 4: Let's go.
Speaker 5: Oh real, we could never stop rolling. I would never
Speaker 5: say cut for that because it was too good.
Speaker 4: It's real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was so real.
Speaker 5: Yes, it's like that moment I was on Broadway in
Speaker 5: the taunting scene. I was playing Anita in West Side.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, the scene which they often called the
Speaker 5: rape scene where a Jets really attacked a Nia. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 5: one night something happened and those boys pull my inturn
Speaker 5: blouse off and that was no did on stage on Broadway.
Speaker 5: And when I tell you, I slept, every last one
Speaker 5: of the mass tried to knock them out and it
Speaker 5: was like I hit them for real too, because it
Speaker 5: was just too real it happened.
Speaker 2: And then the little yeah, Debnie, that was fat, that
Speaker 2: was fat? Do it again. I'm like, shut up, shut.
Speaker 4: Up, shut up, and next time, don't pull my blouse off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Debbie, you have had the like this is insane.
Speaker 3: And also how do you look the way you do?
Speaker 3: I don't understand it.
Speaker 2: I'm so tired girl.
Speaker 3: Come on, no, no, you are so gorgeous. It is insane.
Speaker 3: And then you run a school that has unbelievable programming,
Speaker 3: and you direct, and you run Gray's Anatomy, and you
Speaker 3: act on Grais Anatomy and you're the villain, and you
Speaker 3: have children and a husband and a life.
Speaker 5: I know it's a little tricky. It's a little tricky.
Speaker 5: One thing at a time, and take time. Husband and
Speaker 5: I had a great fortieth anniversary celebration.
Speaker 3: Oh day, gradual elation.
Speaker 2: You know, I have grand babies.
Speaker 5: I have two and Vivings expecting one and now my
Speaker 5: son Thump is expecting one.
Speaker 2: I have four. I'm going to have four by November.
Speaker 5: Oh my, wow, have no bless and my mom is
Speaker 5: going to turn one hundred and one July twenty ninth.
Speaker 1: Are oh my god kidding me really quickly. I read something,
Speaker 1: DeBie that your dad, who has passed away now accompanied
Speaker 1: you to the Emmys, right, and you won your Emmy
Speaker 1: for Choreography for Fame, and then shortly after he passed away.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: Oh, but how special, how wonderful that he got to
Speaker 1: go to the Emmys with you and.
Speaker 4: You, oh, you were able to be there with him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's something I treasure seeing that clip because I
Speaker 5: see him in the audience. Oh, I see him in
Speaker 5: the audience. I'm looking at him and yeah, daddy was
Speaker 5: a dentist and he really supported me and my such
Speaker 5: a fulicial shot who is amazing.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 3: I waited on her once when I was in nobody
Speaker 3: and she was, oh, yeah. I used to work at
Speaker 3: this big theater restaurant called Cafe Cello. It was a
Speaker 3: great gig because you only worked till, you know, four
Speaker 3: pm to seven forty five. You got everyone asses out
Speaker 3: to the theater and then there was a ghost town
Speaker 3: in there. So I really liked the job. But one
Speaker 3: time Felicia came in there, and I remember she ordered
Speaker 3: her soup and it sounded like the best voice in
Speaker 3: speech class I'd ever heard, Like just the way her
Speaker 3: instrument worked. I don't know if she was coming from. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like her cadence and her speech and dialect in her
Speaker 3: the way her voice was supported, and she was so
Speaker 3: classy and let it be known, she was so nice
Speaker 3: to me and I would never forget it. And that
Speaker 3: day she made my day. I got to call my
Speaker 3: parents and be like I waited on.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, she's a little girl.
Speaker 5: We grew up, we grew up with a big family,
Speaker 5: so we're pretty down to her people, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: So Debbie, thank you so much for making time in
Speaker 3: your busy, busy schedu Well, we love you so much.
Speaker 3: You are literally one of your special human beings on
Speaker 3: the planet.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 5: And I'm gonna rewatch the entire scandal. I'm going to
Speaker 5: hold up.
Speaker 4: It's so good.
Speaker 3: Holds up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna watch it again. It's really great.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, we love you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Ge Wow. Not only do we have tweets at the
Speaker 3: time tonight, we also have a user review that said
Speaker 3: get rid of Quinn. I want to and this is
Speaker 3: what it says. This is a featured review. You guys
Speaker 3: are gonna love this. I want to just barf every
Speaker 3: time Quinn is in a scene. There is no legitimate
Speaker 3: reason why she should have any combat or shooting skills. Honestly,
Speaker 3: how did she acquire these almost magical skills she suddenly has.
Speaker 3: It's not believable that she would be recruited by a
Speaker 3: super spy organization. She's trying too hard to be a
Speaker 3: ross between Huck and Olivia. She's not a bad aass
Speaker 3: like she wants to be. She isn't useful any longer
Speaker 3: to the show as a character and should be written out.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much whoever wrote that. Thank you for
Speaker 3: caring and having strong feelings.
Speaker 1: Listen, Katie, I don't know about you, but I used
Speaker 1: to get pressed about ship like that written about me
Speaker 1: or about Huck in the beginning of this show. I
Speaker 1: used to hurt my feelings, but now I literally I
Speaker 1: search for it. I I love it. The nastier, the better,
Speaker 1: the meaner they are to me, the better. It's just enjoyable.
Speaker 3: It's so enjoyable. And also people feel they're anonymous into
Speaker 3: this social media world. If I were to write back
Speaker 3: to that person and be like, Hi, what's up. I
Speaker 3: can't believe you felt the way of my character, they
Speaker 3: would be like, oh no, my god, it's just kidding.
Speaker 3: They think you're writing it into the ether.
Speaker 1: One's gonna go and yeah or read it, or that
Speaker 1: we'll never read it.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Number one feeling tweeted Mellie Grant please stop being a victim?
Speaker 3: Or how Olivia Pope owes you nothing? Wow?
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 3: Yeah she is victimy in this episode. But hey, she
Speaker 3: was literally raped by her husband's.
Speaker 1: Father, right, she's upset. Look at m z M y N.
Speaker 1: Well here's a harsh one, Katie. You're in good company.
Speaker 1: I hate Jake hashtag scandal.
Speaker 3: Oh wait, here's an amazing, amazing Retta. We should have
Speaker 3: her on what Heretta? Yes, I can text her. Ritta,
Speaker 3: whose Twitter handle is at unfreddable, said I need Andrew
Speaker 3: to stop screwing my wife. She wrote, here's your cake?
Speaker 3: Fits would you like to eat it too? Oh? So
Speaker 3: she feels like Melly has every right to be screwing
Speaker 3: Andrew because Fitz is also a cheater. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: this is really mean and really good at Aufen Trovert wrote,
Speaker 3: the day Jeoffrey on Game of Throw and Quinn from
Speaker 3: Scandal die, it will be the happiest days on social media.
Speaker 1: Yes, wait did that character die on Game of Thrones
Speaker 1: because print didn't die.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, Introvert.
Speaker 1: Let's see at Bella Dame Noir tweeted something was up
Speaker 1: with the scene. I don't think it was just a
Speaker 1: scene thrown in there. It's the scene where there's a
Speaker 1: picture of popa Pope and Harrison.
Speaker 3: I know, but there. Yeah, there was a weird feeling there.
Speaker 3: I kind of remember that. Oh to tweet it again,
Speaker 3: she wrote, is anyone else uncomfortable with the sex scene
Speaker 3: knowing Kerry is pregnant?
Speaker 4: Hashtag phoebe Liza, I like this one.
Speaker 1: At pm Kel tweeted I want to be drunk Melly
Speaker 1: Grant when I grow up.
Speaker 4: Hashtag scandal.
Speaker 3: At Forever Island, g Olivia guilty face when Jake says
Speaker 3: how she slept with him l O l O l
Speaker 3: l o llollol. Oh this is just fab Someone tweeted
Speaker 3: a great picture of me, Danny Buka and Bells.
Speaker 4: With glass with sunglasses on.
Speaker 3: That's really and you guys next up is the finale
Speaker 3: of season three. Can you believe it?
Speaker 2: All? Right?
Speaker 3: How do we there?
Speaker 4: Already?
Speaker 3: We did it. We did the second season of Unpacking
Speaker 3: victorm Ball.
Speaker 1: And it's called what is that one called? The Price
Speaker 1: of Free and Fair Elections?
Speaker 3: Guys, it's a doozy Episode three eighteen, The Price of
Speaker 3: Free and Fair Elections.
Speaker 4: Season three of Scandal.
Speaker 3: Keep you with us, guys, Stick with us. We'll explain.
Speaker 4: You'll get it.
Speaker 3: You'll get it. We'll probably have a great guest.
Speaker 4: We love you the you guys. Bye.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
Speaker 1: or leave us a review.
Speaker 3: Unpacking the Toolbox was executive produced by Sandy Bailey, Alex Alce,
Speaker 3: Lauren Homan, Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and
Speaker 3: editor is Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1: Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
Speaker 1: follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 3: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 3: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.