1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 2: Business apps were listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 3: A conversation with Bill Holgley, Senior vice president of the 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 3: Bipartisan Policy Center and a former Senate staffer. He's been 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 3: there at times like these. Bill, welcome back. You had 8 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 3: already solved the whole debt crisis on our air about 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 3: three weeks ago. Now that it's actually passed the House, congratulations, 10 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 3: by the way. What's your thought on the next move 11 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 3: here in the Senate and how quickly this might pass? 12 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 4: Well, I do think it will pass in the Senate. 13 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 4: I think it will have a majority of the majority, 14 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 4: as it did in the House last night. As also, 15 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 4: I do think that you have at least thirty five 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 4: votes from the Democratic Party. I think it's going to pass. 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 4: I think what you were just discussing also is the 18 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 4: way to work this thing out. We do have emergency 19 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 4: spending rules. There is a way to address Senator Graham's concern, 20 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 4: and more importantly, probably I wouldn't be surprised if there 21 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 4: isn't just a Senate resolution that confirms our support for Ukraine. 22 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 4: And that's separate in part because I really don't think 23 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 4: there's any way the leaders are going to allow for 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 4: this amendment to be acted on this to send it 25 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 4: back to the House, because to do so would delay 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 4: and really put us at risk of defaulting next week. 27 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 4: I just looked at the daily Treasury statements. We're down 28 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 4: to something like thirty seven billion dollars. I do know 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 4: that they have issued today or trying to issue today 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 4: a three day bill for twenty five billion. So we 31 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 4: are at the as we have discussed previously, we're really 32 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 4: down to the last last strokes here. I guess this 33 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: is why to put it. 34 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: Down to fumes in the gas tank here, Bill bring 35 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 3: us in the room for the way something like this 36 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: is handled. Obviously, Senator Graham could have brought this up 37 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: a little bit earlier. He waited for it to arrive 38 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 3: in the Senate. I realized that's the timing here. But 39 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: what does Mitch McConnell do at a time like this. 40 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 3: Megan Scully suggested maybe a deal is made on making 41 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 3: some sort of statement about backing the war in Ukraine, 42 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 3: or is there a pet project. They're going to approach 43 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: him with what happens in the next few hours. 44 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 4: Well, I think, first of all, is it going to 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 4: be a discussion in the back room between McConnell and 46 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 4: the Senator Graham about the procedures here. And the procedures is, 47 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 4: as you've already indicated, is that they could have a supplemental. 48 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: And I don't think there's anything that's going to preclude 49 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 4: in this agreement here any future supplementals and emergencies. If 50 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 4: we had a hurricane, we had a disaster, there will 51 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 4: still be an opportunity to add to the spending that 52 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 4: he feels here. But we did have something called OCO 53 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 4: during the last many years, which was an overseas contingency 54 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 4: account something along those lines. I think that's possible. But 55 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 4: again I come back, they're they're not going to have 56 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 4: an amendment on this bill. They want to take it 57 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 4: as it came over from the House. And I think 58 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 4: they can work out a resolute, a senate resolutionist statement 59 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 4: sense of the Senate that might appease Senator Graham at 60 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 4: this particular stage, and that would be enough to get 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 4: the same movie. But this is between mister McConnell and 62 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 4: mister Graham. 63 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 3: At this point, I think, bring them to the woodshed, 64 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 3: maybe in the back room. But this is how the 65 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: sausage is made. Bill Hogland has been there Any chance 66 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 3: this gets done tonight? 67 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 4: Bill, No, I don't think so. I think I wish 68 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 4: you were right. I wish it would be noon tomorrow. Ye, 69 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 4: more likely it's late tomorrow evening. It not into Saturday morning. 70 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 3: Okay, So there was a thought that they might really, 71 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: you know, put the pedal to the metal here, get 72 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 3: it done today. Everybody leaves Thursday evening and follows their 73 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: normal schedule here. But we still have a few things 74 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 3: to work out. And is that based on the time 75 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: that these amendments that are destined to fail will take. 76 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a remember the United States Senate really hasn't 77 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: been playing a big role in these negotiations between the 78 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 4: House and the President. Some of these members like they 79 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 4: haven't had an opportunity to talk, and so we will 80 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 4: hear from a number of the senators, and as we know, 81 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 4: senators like to talk. This is going to take a 82 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 4: little while, but to vent their positions, if you like, 83 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 4: either pro or con and so this is their opportunity 84 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 4: now the Houses, and the President's had his opportunity now 85 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 4: the Senate, and that's why it's going to take a 86 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 4: little bit longer. I just hope they keep an eye 87 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 4: on this cash balance at the Treasury because it's going 88 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 4: to creep up on I'm pretty fast here. 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean, so we need to get a 90 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 3: vote before the weekend. The President needs to sign it 91 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 3: over the weekend. We come back to reality on Monday. 92 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 3: And that's the X state. I mean, it's as simple 93 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: as that, right. 94 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 4: And yes, and then we'll deal with this again in January. 95 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: I hope there's a vacation for you in between there too. Bill, 96 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: thank you for being a reliable voice for us through 97 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 3: all of this. Bill Hoaglan, the senior VP at the 98 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: Bipartisan Policy Center right across the street from us here 99 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 3: in the Bloomberg Washington Bureau. I'm Joe Matthew. 100 00:04:59,440 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 5: This is. 101 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the 102 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 103 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,119 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 104 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 105 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 106 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: So he's running who you ask? Yeah, we heard about 107 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 3: Chris Christy already. That's supposed to come Tuesday of next week. 108 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: Looking forward to asking Lisa about that as we reassemble 109 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 3: our panel Lisa Camuso Miller, Republican strategist and Genie Shanzeno 110 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst. But there's another I haven't mentioned. 111 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 3: The former vice president set to announce his campaign the 112 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 3: day after Mike Pence asked about the story we were 113 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 3: just talking about in an interview. That's Disney, of course, 114 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 3: in Ron de Santis' war against the corporation, his stand 115 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: on this. 116 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 6: I like Walt Disney, not woke Disney, and I fully 117 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 6: support what Florida did and challenging a left wing agenda 118 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 6: for children under third grade. In fact, I'd like to 119 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 6: see them expand that in the interest of families in Florida. 120 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 6: But where I took issue several months ago was as 121 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 6: a limited government conservative. I don't believe it's the role 122 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 6: of government to then essentially go after corporations that differed 123 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 6: with them in the political process. 124 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 3: That's from USA today. I'm really confused. Now he says 125 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: he supports Ronda Santis, but not this type of activity, Lisa. 126 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 3: Is it possible to thread that needle for Mike Pence. 127 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 7: I mean, every candidate that's in the race is reinventing 128 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 7: themselves over and over and over again, Joe, from my 129 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 7: point of view, and I think that everyone is doing 130 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 7: it in the in the image of what they think 131 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 7: the Republican Party is today, and they're trying to figure 132 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 7: that out. And I think that as soon as they 133 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 7: figure out what their own authentic point of view is, 134 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 7: then I think they'll start to resonate with voters. But 135 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,559 Speaker 7: in the meantime, if they're trying to thread the needle 136 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 7: with messaging like that, I don't know, man, I don't 137 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 7: think that that's the winning strategy, not from my point 138 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 7: of view anyway. 139 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 3: Woke Disney, not Walt Disney, Genie. At least there was 140 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 3: a line. 141 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 8: There was and the two w's that that seems to 142 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 8: be what he was going after. You know, this is 143 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 8: this is uh. 144 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 5: You know. 145 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 8: I think the person who has articulated their position on 146 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 8: this from the Republican side most articulately, in my mind, 147 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 8: is the governor of New Hampshire Sununu, who has said, 148 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 8: you know, I am a small C conservative and in 149 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 8: New Hampshire we don't try to dictate what corporations do. 150 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 8: That's it. And I think to Lisa's point, the challenge 151 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 8: Pence has is he never comes out on these things 152 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 8: as sounding authentic. He sounds like he's DeSantis chasing Trump 153 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 8: to be woke. You shouldn't chase people. Be who you are. 154 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 8: You're a traditional conservative, then be that way. So I 155 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 8: think that's going to be the challenge for him. He's 156 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 8: trying to figure it out and he just may. And 157 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 8: by the way, Joe, I thought you were also going 158 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 8: to mention the governor of North Dakota who may come 159 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 8: out next week, billionaire Doug Burgham. So you know I 160 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 8: won't be surprised if you announced next week as well, Joe. 161 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 8: It's getting to be a big, big stage out there. 162 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 3: Not need to worry about. As we survey the landscape. 163 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: The latest polls on the race courtesy the former president 164 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 3: in Manchester, New Hampshire. 165 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 9: These polls are amazing, So today is very very important 166 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 9: and big Emerson Paul came out, so it has Trump 167 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 9: at sixty two percent to Sanctus at sixteen, Mike pens 168 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 9: at seven. Obviously, people are dreaming of energy independence, a 169 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 9: strong military like you had, and borders and low taxes. 170 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 9: And as strong we want strong borders, we want low taxes. 171 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: So when you think about these numbers here, and of course, 172 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 3: the man who is likely to be on stage as well, 173 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, Lisa this idea of Mike Pence running a campaign, 174 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 3: where's the Mike Pence base beyond evangelicals who already seemed 175 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 3: to be aligned with Donald Trump. 176 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 7: Well, I don't think that they're with him. They're with 177 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 7: Trump for sure. I mean, you know, I think about that. 178 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 7: I was just before we even got on today, I 179 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 7: was thinking about the Pence candidacy and how that's how 180 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 7: that's going to unfold. I mean, I think that if 181 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 7: the President hadn't sent an. 182 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 4: Army of. 183 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 7: The people to the Capitol to hang the guy, perhaps 184 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 7: maybe they might be inclined to be in favor of him. 185 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 7: But the whole the narrative, the two of them are, 186 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 7: So if you're for Trump, you're not for Pence. And 187 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 7: if sixty six percent or whatever that number is that 188 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 7: Trump just quoted is where his numbers are now in 189 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 7: New Hampshire. Well, then whatever's left is not also with 190 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 7: Mike Pence. They're with the Santis or just about anybody else. 191 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 7: So to me, it feels like an opportunity. I think 192 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 7: also too in in some ways, Joe, when you are 193 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 7: and have served as the vice president, you think in 194 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 7: your head like I could do that job, I could 195 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 7: be the president. And so this is the natural course 196 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 7: of things for him. He was once a governor, and 197 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 7: then he was vice president, and now it's his turn 198 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 7: to run. But you and I've seen this playbook before. 199 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 7: If you presume that it's your turn, that doesn't necessarily 200 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 7: mean that it is. 201 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 3: Oh true, Genie, Is this the best news for Democrats? 202 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 3: The more the merrier. Everybody's eaten into Donald Trump here, 203 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 3: or at least trying to, but making it very difficult 204 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 3: for anyone else to be the nominee. 205 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean that's what Democrats believe, that's what the 206 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 8: Trump campaign believes. That has been traditional wisdom. We have 207 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 8: to see how it plays out. I do think that 208 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 8: we're hearing in Iowa from people on the ground there 209 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 8: that there is an appetite for an alternative to Trump 210 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 8: because the baggage is adding up by the day, the 211 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 8: latest you know what came out of New Jersey this tape. 212 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 8: We may see Jack Smith, you know, shareon indictment Georgia. 213 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 8: So we may see voters looking for an alternative to Trump, 214 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 8: but he leaves, and Democrats believe the more people get in, 215 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 8: the harder it is to knock off Trump, and Trump 216 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 8: will be easier for Biden to beat. You know, I 217 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 8: do think there is some truth to that, but you know, 218 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 8: I would I would also just add that as we 219 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 8: look at what's going on out there, and you look 220 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 8: at what Trump is saying the people, he seems to 221 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 8: fear the people he's talking about Ron Desanti's number one, 222 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 8: but also in the last few hours he's talking about 223 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 8: Chris Christie. So I do think he fears either or 224 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 8: he's very angry still at Chris Christy for attack again. 225 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 8: All right, but you watch what he says, and the 226 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 8: people he talks about are the people I think he fears, 227 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 8: could you know, eat into his numbers? So it Christie 228 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 8: seems to be, you know, second to DeSantis on that list. 229 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 3: Wow, all right, well, so I want to hear from 230 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 3: you on this. You may not realize, but Lisa Camussa 231 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 3: Miller hails from New Jersey and knows exactly what Chris 232 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 3: Christy and his team are up to here. Is it 233 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 3: gonna work, Lisa. 234 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 7: Boy, I sure hope. So I have to tell you, 235 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 7: I mean I was, I was. You know, Look, every candidate, 236 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 7: every single candidate, I mean Donald Trump at the top 237 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 7: of that list, are They're all flawed? 238 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 5: Right? 239 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 7: They are all, each and every one of them on 240 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 7: the Republican side, on the Democrat side. So Chris Christy 241 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 7: has some hurdles to get over, but the smaller issues, 242 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 7: the things that he has been criticized for, do not 243 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 7: in any way level at the same as Trump's list 244 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,959 Speaker 7: of all of the foibles and others. Chris Christy already 245 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 7: has assembled some of the best political operatives that I know, 246 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 7: that I have worked with, that I trust and really 247 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 7: think are capable if there is any campaign, as it's 248 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 7: assembling and coming together, that could be successful against the 249 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 7: Trump Now he has, yes, of course, lots of supporters, 250 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 7: lots of people that are with him, a great ground game. 251 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 7: But the people that Chris Christy is assembling on the 252 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 7: political side today, at least from what I've read and 253 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 7: what I've seen, they're amongst the best show, and to me, 254 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 7: I think that provides the party with hope because look 255 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 7: I've said to that, I've said this before on your 256 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 7: show a dozen times. I believe that Chris it was 257 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 7: the brand that Chris Christie opened up when he was 258 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 7: the governor that may opened for Donald Trump. Yeah, what 259 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 7: the thought. 260 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 3: Great analysis as ever from Lisa Camussa Miller and Genie Shanzano. 261 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 3: Many thanks to you both. Lisa, come back next week 262 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 3: when Chris Christy launches, because this is going to be 263 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 3: a riot and Mike Pence for that matter, I'm Joe 264 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 3: Matthew and Washington. Great panel and more. Sound on ahead, 265 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. 266 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 3: Catch us live weekdays at one Eastern. 267 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg 268 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,599 Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 269 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: We just saw something in Washington that many of us 270 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 3: thought we would never see, really a public meeting at 271 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 3: NASA headquarters about UFOs, A four hour hearing featuring a 272 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 3: panel of experts. There were sixteen scientists and other experts 273 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 3: in including retired astronauts Scott Kelly who spent almost a 274 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 3: year in space, and as it turns out, had his 275 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 3: own experience when he was a fighter pilot, well sort of. 276 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 10: I remember one time I was flying in the warning 277 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 10: areas off of a Virginia Beach Military operating area there 278 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 10: and my rio thought the guy that sits in the 279 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 10: back of the Tomcat was convinced. We flew by a 280 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 10: UFO so I didn't see it. We turned around, we 281 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 10: went to go look at it. It turns out it 282 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 10: was Bart Simpson a balloon. 283 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 8: Yes, Bart Simpson, the one, the only, the Bart Man. 284 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 3: And this was a real public meeting. Questions relayed through 285 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 3: NASA's Karen Fox. Thank god they didn't open the phone line. 286 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: She quickly identified a the what is. 287 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 11: NASA hiding and where are you hiding it? How much 288 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 11: has been shared publicly? Has NASA ever cut the live 289 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 11: NASA TV feed away from something? Has NASA released all 290 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 11: UAP evidence it has ever received? 291 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 3: How about this? The conspiracies continued, But NASA's David Spergel, 292 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 3: who chairs the UAP Independent Study Team behind this whole hearing, 293 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 3: was there to burst a few balloons. 294 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 12: We haven't found life beyond Earth yet, right, I mean, 295 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 12: let's be clear about this. We haven't found it yet, 296 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 12: but we're looking and we're looking for it in lots 297 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 12: of different ways. You know, is NASA hiding anything about this? No, 298 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 12: this is actually what you know. Answering this question is 299 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 12: one of the things that NASA's an agency is excited about. 300 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: So the answer is no. But you're saying there's a 301 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 3: chance there will be more meetings like this and more 302 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 3: information revealed. But until then, we'll just keep images of 303 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 3: flying saucers in our heads, your tax dollars at work, 304 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen, answering the questions that we're all begging 305 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 3: be asked in the public sphere. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. 306 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 3: This is Sound On, the fastest show in politics, and 307 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: Kaylee Lines is on the way next. 308 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 309 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 310 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 311 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: Business App. 312 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: Or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 313 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 3: You wanted to seize on a story that is the 314 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 3: incredibly long list the growing list of companies, mainly retailers, 315 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 3: facing boycotts from conservative Republicans who are upset about in 316 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 3: many cases on the retail front, LGBTQ Pride Month displays. Essentially, 317 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 3: Target has been sort of the poster child there. But Kaylee, 318 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: we saw this begin with Disney and Ron de Santis. 319 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: We've seen even a threatened boycott against Chick fil A, 320 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: which is not a darling if you know anything about this, 321 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 3: but they had a DEI statement on one of their 322 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: web pages that got people worked up. It's just it's 323 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: one after the other. Cohle's Walmart I could keep going. 324 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 5: Yeah. 325 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 13: It speaks to the culture wars and the pushback against 326 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 13: woke America, woke corporate policies, just the entire woke agenda. 327 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 13: And I say all of this you can't hear it 328 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 13: on radio, but I am using air quotes when I 329 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 13: say these things. But this really is what this is about. 330 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 13: And it just speaks to the difficulty of a corporation 331 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 13: in America having to navigate this kind of political climate 332 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 13: when on the one hand, you do have a consumer 333 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 13: based parts of it that are pushing for inclusivity and equality, 334 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 13: and they want to see the DNI efforts and the 335 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 13: advocacy on some of these social issues and On the 336 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 13: other hand, it's the exact opposite. I mean, it comes 337 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 13: back in my realm of covering financial regulation to when 338 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 13: we were seeing banks collapse and there were sitting lawmakers 339 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 13: who were blaming it on them being woke on the 340 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 13: diversity of their boards. This is a wire issue, a 341 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 13: wider well, the very good point, but clearly something permeating 342 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 13: the American political and consumer landscape at the moment. 343 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 3: Earlier today on Bloomberg TV, an interesting conversation with the 344 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 3: CEO of GLAD. This is the LGBTQ media advocacy organization. 345 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: It's CEO Sarah Kate Ellis. 346 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 14: There is a moment right now that we're in where 347 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 14: your values are being called into question. Target has been 348 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 14: doing pride for ten plus years at least, has had 349 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 14: apparel lined, many many different collaborations, and this year is 350 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 14: no different than the past years. The only difference is 351 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 14: that there's a small coordinated. 352 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,439 Speaker 3: Group that was on Bloomberg Equality just a short time ago. Actually, Kaylee, 353 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 3: and it's a conversation we wanted to have with Ian Shatsburg, 354 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: the founder and CEO of General Idea Group. This is 355 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 3: a branding agency in e and I welcome you to 356 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Radio. Having read your take on this on the 357 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 3: terminal in a great column that we have you can 358 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 3: read a lot more about I just wonder if you 359 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: see this as continuing through the presidential campaign. Is this 360 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: just the beginning. It seems like you can get anything 361 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,639 Speaker 3: done when it comes to a boycott on social media. 362 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 5: Hey, nice to. 363 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 15: Meet you, Thanks so much for having me. Yes, I mean, 364 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 15: I do think this is. 365 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 10: Very the beginning. 366 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 15: And I think the unfortunate reality of this is that 367 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 15: what we're seeing right now at the onset of pride 368 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 15: is really kind of just the embers of what I 369 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 15: think will continue to escalate. So I think, you know, 370 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 15: the business community and business leaders are really going to 371 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 15: be this is an issue that is is not going. 372 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: To go away. 373 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 13: I just wonder, though, Ian, if this is literally a 374 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 13: no win situation for some of these companies, because on 375 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 13: the one hand, we saw in twenty twenty in the 376 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 13: aftermath of the death of George Floyd, companies that weren't 377 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 13: outspoken received a lot of criticism. Now it's you know, 378 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 13: companies that are outspoken on some of these social issues 379 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 13: are receiving criticism from the other end. How would you 380 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 13: be advising navigation of this landscape. 381 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean I think the term win win is 382 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 15: a kind of complicated way and maybe not necessarily the 383 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 15: way I would look look at it, because I think 384 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 15: it's really a you know, ultimately, this is really a 385 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 15: conversation about values and where your values lie. And I think, 386 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 15: you know, the reality of the of the business world 387 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 15: and the markets is that they think in terms of 388 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 15: numbers and short term results. But the reality of where 389 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 15: your values live that is, you know, that is perpetual. 390 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 15: Like what you stand for and what you believe in 391 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 15: really should be unshakeable. I personally feel, and I would 392 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 15: advocate that to business leaders, which is, you know, if 393 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 15: you stand up for something and you declare that you 394 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 15: are values led and purposeful in what you're doing, I 395 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 15: don't think that you have the ability to back away 396 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 15: from that. So I think what I'm sort of witnessing 397 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 15: is like, you know, win win is perhaps is a reef. 398 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 15: I mean, it's really like are you are you following 399 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 15: through with your actions and your commitments? And you know, 400 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,200 Speaker 15: my response would be like, don't make those commitments in 401 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 15: the first place. If you can't follow through with them, 402 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 15: that's you know, if you can't win on them because 403 00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 15: you can't. You can't action them, then then don't do that. 404 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 3: I'm taken by the varied responses that we've seen. Bud 405 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: Light might be the example of how not to do it. 406 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 3: We saw essentially a non apology statement from the company 407 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: that didn't even mention trans or LGBTQ rights. This following 408 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 3: the Dylan mulvaney endorsement saying the company was quote in 409 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 3: the business of bringing people together over a beer. And 410 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 3: guess what, their sales went down even more. Bud Light's 411 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 3: now got a market share in the US at eight percent, 412 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 3: down from well over ten and a half last year. 413 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 3: Target took a different attitude here. They actually moved some 414 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 3: items from its Pride Month collection to the back of 415 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: the store, in some cases removed them altogether because they 416 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 3: said their customers were being made to feel unsafe. Their 417 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 3: sales continue to sink. Then there's Walmart, which took a 418 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 3: very different approach here and said, well, there's nothing to 419 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 3: see here. Quote, we have merchandise we sell all year 420 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 3: that supports different groups. In this particular case, we haven't 421 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 3: changed anything in our assortment, and we'll see how that progresses. 422 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 3: The north face is the last one. I'll bring up 423 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 3: here out for the second year in a row with 424 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 3: this advertisement featuring a drag queen that has outraged a 425 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 3: number of conservative consumers. Here's what it sounds like. 426 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 15: Hi, it's me Patty Gonia, a real life homosexual, and 427 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 15: today I'm here. 428 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 3: With the see a mustache man wearing rainbow clothing the 429 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,400 Speaker 3: Summer of Pride tour begins. It seems almost like they're 430 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,679 Speaker 3: asking for it in this case. Ian, what is the 431 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:31,400 Speaker 3: right approach? 432 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean, I think the right approach really comes 433 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 15: down to again being sort of values led in your 434 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 15: actions and standing by your commitments. And I think, you know, 435 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 15: I have Plod Target and its long term commitments to 436 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 15: the LGBTQ community. I think they've done an exceptional job. 437 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 15: And I think in this recent instant since they have 438 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,880 Speaker 15: you know, they've moved merchandise, but they have pulled back 439 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 15: and retrench and I think, you know, that's a real 440 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 15: that that can be seen, as I think by consumers 441 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 15: as a real slippery slope. You know, if you if 442 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 15: you are committed to it and then you waver on it, 443 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 15: I think where does that sort of lead? And I 444 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 15: think that can sense sort of chills through people's minds 445 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 15: in terms of like, you know, what is this? Where 446 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 15: are the convictions of this business? So I think, you know, 447 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 15: Walmart statement to me is interesting, which is just that 448 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 15: they are, you know, committed to lots of They're committed 449 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 15: to minorities and different groups and this is what it is. 450 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 15: And it's almost no comment. I think in the instance 451 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 15: of Anheuser Busch, I mean, something that came up yesterday 452 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 15: that I was sort of flabbergasted about was that they 453 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 15: made a sort of further commitment to the National LGBT 454 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 15: Chamber of Commerce. And you know, I think early in 455 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 15: that instance, like the learnings for the business community on 456 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 15: that is again, you know, to continually waiver is is 457 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 15: really not where you want to go. I think you 458 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 15: need to lead with conviction and you need to lead 459 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 15: with intention and if you are, you know, claiming your actions, 460 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 15: then you follow through with them. So I think there's 461 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 15: a lot of learnings on this. But I really, you know, 462 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 15: I think the north Face is leading with conviction, and 463 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 15: I think Anheuser Busch is kind of shedding light on 464 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 15: what it means to waiver. 465 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 13: Well, it makes me wonder if we're going to start 466 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 13: seeing companies not necessarily change their values or abandon the 467 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 13: values when in terms of the actual operation some of 468 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 13: their efforts you know, behind the curtain, but just not 469 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 13: being as loud in public about it. 470 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 15: I think that's a really great point. I mean, I 471 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 15: think that is definitely something to be mindful of and 472 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 15: to be watchful of, because I do think, you know, 473 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 15: the unfortunate reality I think of the landscape at the 474 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 15: moment and of what businesses are faced with is that 475 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 15: there can be you know, taking a stand means taking 476 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,719 Speaker 15: a stand, and if you are not committed to doing that, 477 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 15: I think you could potentially watch businesses kind of step 478 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 15: a little bit back or retrench or be quiet. But 479 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 15: I do think in the long run, the businesses that 480 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 15: are strong on their conviction will win with the consumer. 481 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 3: It's really interesting here. What does it tell us ian 482 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 3: about the mainstreaming, if you will, of LGBTQ values and stories. 483 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 3: It's it's hard for me to tell if it's cresting 484 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 3: right now, if it's just kind of breaking out, which 485 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 3: is why we're seeing such intense blowback, or if it's 486 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 3: it's just social media that makes us think something different's 487 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: going on here. 488 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 15: Yeah, I mean, I think we're I think we are witnessing. 489 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 15: I think, you know, the LGBTQ community is a growing 490 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 15: voice in culture and society, and I think if we 491 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 15: look at the statistics on generations, there is greater awareness 492 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 15: and acceptance of individuals who identify as lgbt Q. And 493 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 15: I think that this is the beginning of a long 494 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 15: journey of louder voices and a big generational shift that's 495 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 15: taking place as gen Z consumers grow up and kind 496 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 15: of come into the come into society, come into the workplace, 497 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 15: and really are of a different value set where they 498 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 15: are accepting and interested and exploring identity in a way 499 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 15: that's different from prior generations. 500 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: Ian, great to have you. I appreciate your insights. Ian 501 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 3: Shatsburg is the founder CEO of General Idea Group branding agency, 502 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 3: and you can read his comments in the story US 503 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 3: companies scramble as Pride Month collides with boycotts. It's right 504 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 3: there on the terminal. This is something that probably will 505 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 3: not be going away at least as long as this 506 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 3: campaign cycle is under way. 507 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 13: Kyley Well and frankly, it's also something that investors are 508 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 13: going to have to pay close attention to. I mean 509 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 13: just looking at the target example an analyst and Wells 510 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 13: Fargo today. So this adds uncertainty to a stock that 511 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 13: already was facing earning's risk, and there is evidence of 512 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 13: some financial impact in terms of this boycott. You're seeing 513 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 13: data signaling that traffic weakness. So it actually does matter 514 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 13: to the fundamental business. 515 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and it is moving shares depending on the company 516 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 3: that we're talking about here. Remarkable stuff, true Bloomberg story right, 517 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 3: the intersection of politics and business not always for the 518 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 3: better than this case. 519 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 520 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern. 521 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,160 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg 522 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: Business App, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 523 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: As we count down to the vote, wasn't I saying 524 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 3: that this time yesterday? Yes I was. It's in the 525 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 3: Senate this time it did pass. The debt ceiling bill 526 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 3: passed the House late last evening. 527 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 16: Yeas are three fourteen, the may's are one seventeen. The 528 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 16: bill is passed, there is consider and emotion reconsiders laid 529 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 16: on the table. 530 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 3: Majority of Democrats though on that vote count, Kayley and 531 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: Speaker McCarthy was asked today if he was concerned about that. 532 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 3: He made it very clear that he thought it was 533 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 3: a win for Republicans. There were questions about whether he 534 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 3: could get one hundred and fifty. I believe he brought 535 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 3: one hundred and forty nine, so pretty close to the 536 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 3: way things actually seemed like they were going to play out. 537 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: The question is will they play out predictably in the 538 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 3: Senate tonight or likely tomorrow. 539 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 13: Yeah, and that's what we're waiting to find out, if 540 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 13: we will get final passage of this bill in both 541 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 13: chambers as both sides you know, are going to have 542 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 13: to vote for it. A but our claiming victory as well. B. 543 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 3: That's right. I'm glad to say that we're joined by 544 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 3: Mitch Landrew. I didn't expect Mitch Landrew to be out 545 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 3: in front of this. But anytime we can spend time 546 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 3: with the senior advisor to the President and the infrastructures 547 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 3: are we pick up the phone. It's great to have you, sir, 548 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. I hear you laughing there, 549 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 3: and you always bring an interesting angle on these things. 550 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 3: I just what do you think of the argument here 551 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 3: that somebody got rolled. If you ask the Freedom Caucus, 552 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 3: they say Kevin McCarthy got rolled. If you ask Progressive Democrats, 553 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 3: they say, ah, the president. He gave up too much. 554 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 3: What's your view on what appears to be a genuine compromise. 555 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 4: Well, the president's view of the American people want, you know, 556 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 4: the the President may pretty clear to Congress that it 557 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 4: had to meet its basic and fundamental constitutional responsibility to 558 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 4: prevent a first of a default. Remember, we raised the 559 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 4: debt ceiling without consequence seventy eight times since nineteen sixty. 560 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 4: So that's why the President was forceful in laying out 561 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 4: the economic stakes of a default, you know, which could 562 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 4: have caused a recession and millions of job lost, a 563 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 4: devastated retirements account. So last night, in a really strong 564 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 4: bipartisan way, at the President's request, the House took a 565 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 4: critical first step towards preventing that default. And now it's 566 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 4: over in the Senate. Hopefully it'll get it done so 567 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 4: we can get back to the regular art of business 568 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 4: and continue the incredible economic growth that the President's produced 569 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 4: in the last eighteen months twelve point seven million jobs, 570 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 4: eight hundred thousand manufacturing jobs, lowest unemployment rate in fifty years. 571 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 4: The market responded to it really, really well. So hopefully 572 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 4: we'll be on go on. The Senate has the crack 573 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 4: at it, and hopefully they'll get to it sooner red 574 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 4: than later and we can get back to work and 575 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 4: finish the job. 576 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 13: Well, but talking Mitch about the economic impact of all 577 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 13: of this and some of the specific provisions within it. 578 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 13: And I ask you this as the former lieutenant governor 579 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 13: of the state of Louisiana, so I would imagine you 580 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 13: are very familiar with this statistic. But Louisiana has one 581 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 13: of the highest SNAP participatation rates in the country. It 582 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 13: was nearly twenty percent as of November I think nine 583 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 13: hundred thousand almost participants. Did the administration agree to a 584 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 13: deal that is going to end up hurting the people 585 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 13: who benefit from that program. 586 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 4: Well, first of all, remember this was a negotiation. Not 587 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 4: everybody is going to win. They're always going to be 588 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 4: compromises and they're always challenges, you know. The first thing 589 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 4: to remember is that the first thing the Republicans wanted 590 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 4: to protect when the tax cuts for the wealthy, and 591 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 4: of course they always you know, go after the poor. 592 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 4: But the President and our team did a great job 593 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 4: of pushing back very very hard on that we protected 594 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 4: Social Security, we protected Medicare, we protected Medicaid, We minimized 595 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 4: dramatically the impact that they wanted to have on SNAP, 596 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 4: that basically carved out the most vulnerable populations, and only 597 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 4: relented on the part we had to relating to able 598 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 4: bodied people. That will all end. I think at the 599 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 4: end of the day, what we're going to find that 600 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 4: is actually more people eligible for SNAP rather than less. 601 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 4: So it wasn't a great part of the bill, but 602 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 4: it's like anything else, you know, trying to negotiat responsible 603 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 4: folks as showing up. It's a it's a compromise. 604 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 3: Well, that's the analysis from the CBO. And when you 605 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 3: put your mayor cap back on, you go down in 606 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 3: New Orleans and tell everybody about what's inside this deal. 607 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 3: What is the story that you're expanding eligibility for SNAP 608 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 3: or that it's going to become a little bit more 609 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: difficult to get these benefits. 610 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 4: Well, it's kind of both. But when you look at 611 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 4: the overall package, you know, the package that the President 612 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 4: put together with the bipartist an Infrastructure law and the 613 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 4: Ships Act and this invest in America agenda. He's created 614 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 4: twelve point seven million jobs, and he's lifted people out 615 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 4: of poverty and has an unemployment rate lower than what 616 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 4: we've had in the last fifty years. So, notwithstanding this 617 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 4: what I would call a slight contraction, the overall, this 618 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 4: overall agreement is much much more, much better than, of course, 619 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 4: with the Republicans who control Congress wanted to do, which 620 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 4: would have resulted in a twenty two percent cut across 621 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 4: the board. So from that perspective, we're in a much 622 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 4: much better position. The President fought hard for it, and 623 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 4: you know, will continue to do the work that needs 624 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 4: to be done. 625 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 13: Obviously, in the near term it would be a better 626 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 13: economic position, assuming that this deal means the US is 627 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 13: going to avoid defaulting on its debt for the first time. 628 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 13: But on the longer term view the fiscal trajectory of 629 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 13: the United States, does it really do much to address 630 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 13: that at all? 631 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's one of the it's a great 632 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 4: question to ask, because you know, when the Republicans on 633 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 4: the far right side of the House started, they started 634 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 4: talking about deficit reduction, but the first thing that they 635 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 4: rejected was was an effort to peel back the taxus 636 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 4: for the wealthiest one percent that would have done the 637 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 4: most to reduce the deficit. And so is it really 638 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 4: about that. The President, as you know, has put forward 639 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 4: plans that has already reduced the budget the deficit by 640 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 4: one point three trillion. Another one point seven put forward 641 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 4: and there was more deficit reduction in our side. So listen, 642 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 4: the fiscal health of the country is really really important. 643 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 4: One of the ways you fix that is you grow 644 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 4: the economy. And of course, the President's record is bringing 645 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 4: the receipts twelve point seven million jobs, lowest unemployment rate, 646 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 4: wages are up, inflation is still high, but it's headed 647 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 4: in the right direction. That's the way you bring down 648 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 4: the deficit. And you also do it by making sure 649 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 4: that everybody pays their fair share. And that's one of 650 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 4: the things that the President has been pushing on really hard. 651 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,000 Speaker 4: But it was one of the things that was rejected 652 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 4: very early. So we live to fight another day on 653 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 4: that issue. 654 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 3: I know you have to run here in a second, 655 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: mister Mayor, but forgive me if I call you, mister Mayor, 656 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 3: I want to ask you just quickly about the impact 657 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 3: on the infrastructure bill and its implementation. Does this budget 658 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 3: as you see it moving through Congress. Have any impact 659 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: on shovels going into the grounds in the year. 660 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 4: Ahead, Well listen, not only that, but again, they didn't 661 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 4: touch those security they didn't touch Medicare, they didn't touch Medicaid. 662 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 4: They didn't impact the touch. The bipart is an infrastructure law. 663 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 4: The CHIPS Act are the Inflation Reduction Act. The President's 664 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 4: all of his core principles, all of his core programs, 665 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 4: so actually intact and actually moving forward. So as the 666 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 4: President says to me every day, hurry the hell up, 667 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,479 Speaker 4: get it done. We'll continue in the work at SASA space. 668 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 4: We have thirty two thousand projects that have been funded 669 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 4: in forty five hundred communities across all fifty states, in 670 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,959 Speaker 4: all territories. So we're blowing and going, and we can't 671 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 4: wait to come to a community near you. 672 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 3: We're going to meet you there one of these days. 673 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 3: We talked about that, preferably at Galatoise, but we'll have 674 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 3: that conversation again on another day. The former mayor of 675 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 3: New Orleans is now the infrastructures are at the White House, 676 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 3: and Senior Advisor to the President, Mitch Landry, many thanks 677 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 3: her for being with us here on Bloomberg Radio. Always 678 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 3: an interesting view. Yeah, as he's he's not exactly a 679 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 3: Washington guy, and he just has a different approach in 680 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 3: a different tone when you start talking about these issues. 681 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 13: Well, because we talk so much here when we're speaking 682 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 13: with policy wonks and talking about just legislative text and 683 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 13: big round numbers, and you have to talk about the 684 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 13: real impact ultimately, how it how it impacts the American 685 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 13: people who are going to feel the consequences of whatever 686 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 13: legislation comes through. So, whether that is through snap benefits 687 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 13: or infrastructure spending, energy, we have to consider all of that. 688 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for sure. By the way, I was mentioning 689 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 3: a speaker McCarthy being asked about, you know, whether this 690 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 3: is a win or a loss, knowing that it took 691 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 3: a majority of Democrats and it wasn't you know, a 692 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 3: blowout here. It took a lot of Republicans too, almost 693 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 3: a majority of the of the well almost one hundred 694 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 3: and fifty that he promised it was a majority of 695 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 3: the majority. Yeah, here's the way he answered that question though, 696 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 3: with regard to framing this as to who got what. 697 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:48,280 Speaker 17: Okay, so let's see deeper spending cuts, non defense spending 698 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 17: you take vets out, is lower than it was in 699 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 17: twenty twenty two. What we just proved was Democrats were here. 700 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 17: They spent six trillion dollars. They brought us inflation, everything 701 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 17: something else. They said, only thing they would do is 702 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 17: just raise. 703 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 15: The debt limit. 704 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 17: Well, now they voted for work requirements. Now they just 705 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 17: voted to put pego on the present on all of 706 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 17: our president that he can't he can't go create a 707 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 17: new regulation or others without cutting before. 708 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 3: That, realizing he's answering a question by asking more questions. 709 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 3: But you can sense where his head is on this. 710 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 13: Yeah, And I mean it's been pretty consistent all the 711 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 13: way through right that everybody was going to talk about 712 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 13: how they were winning, and that's what it takes to 713 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 13: get it through your caucus as well. And of course 714 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 13: he's pushing back against members of his own party who 715 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 13: are saying, as you were mentioning earlier, that he got rolled, 716 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 13: that McCarthy came out at the losing end of this. Obviously, 717 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,919 Speaker 13: you know, he is doing his best to silence those 718 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 13: particular members in the House. 719 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 3: Yes, you know, look there's a lot there obviously, but 720 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 3: I do wonder if he and Chip Roy had a 721 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 3: good hug when they left the house for them. 722 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 13: You think maybe you're. 723 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: Listening to the Bloombergs sound on podcast. Catch the program 724 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune 725 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 726 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 727 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 728 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 3: With a question at this point on timing more than result, 729 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 3: more than outcome. In the Senate, Kayleie, there was talk 730 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 3: at one point of the vote on the debt ceiling 731 00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 3: bill happening midday today. It's looking more like maybe midday 732 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 3: tomorrow because. 733 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 13: Of amendments, Right, Joe. The idea is, this is the 734 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 13: US Senate we are talking about. In any one senator, 735 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 13: if they want to force a vote on the amendment, 736 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 13: has the potential to drag this out procedurally for a 737 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 13: longer period. And we know there's been a lot of 738 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 13: amendments put forward. I would imagine that right now they 739 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 13: are working to whittle those that number of amendments down, 740 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,359 Speaker 13: got it. 741 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 3: So this is a great opportunity to spend time with 742 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 3: Senator Mike Braun, the Republican from Indiana, is preparing to 743 00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 3: vote on this and he's, by the way, got his 744 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 3: own amendments. Editor, Welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. Are you 745 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 3: a no vote on this? 746 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 5: Yeah? I am a no vote on the bill because 747 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 5: I came from the world of running something for thirty 748 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 5: seven years prior to becoming a senator, and only here 749 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 5: are the dynamics in place to where you don't have 750 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 5: to do budgets that went out the window nearly twenty 751 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 5: years ago. You got to go back into the Clinton 752 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 5: administration where they did some and actually had a balanced 753 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 5: budget probably since the year two thousand. I think it 754 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 5: started with the Bush administration. We put a couple wars 755 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 5: on a credit card and did some tax cuts. They 756 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 5: generally pay for themselves after two three four years. The 757 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,920 Speaker 5: Democrats won't acknowledge that. I think the Trump tax cuts 758 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,880 Speaker 5: were as well. But you flush a little or you 759 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 5: take revenues away from the treasury, but they build because 760 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 5: of the economic growth associated with it, somewhere between two 761 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 5: and three percent rates. Generally you're in that one to 762 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 5: one and a half percent economic growth rate, but the 763 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 5: stats prove it. Over fifty years, we can't generate, regardless 764 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 5: of the tax rate, more than about eighteen percent of 765 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 5: our GDP. So a lot of this is just there 766 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 5: with raw data. But starting then is when we lost 767 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 5: I think fiscal responsibility, and it's been an equal opportunity 768 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 5: enterprise ever since on both sides of the aisle. And 769 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 5: that's what's got us to I got here four and 770 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 5: a half years ago, you're eighteen trillion in debt. Now 771 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 5: we're thirty one trillion, and do simple math. I ask 772 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 5: a bunch of reporters what one percent of thirty trillion 773 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 5: was here about three four months ago. It's so abstract, 774 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 5: so many zeros they couldn't come up with it. They 775 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 5: said three hundred million. It was, of course three hundred billion, 776 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 5: and then said, well, let's take four to five percent 777 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 5: interest rates going up. That gets priced into our debt. 778 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 5: None of them that has been felt yet. So this 779 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 5: is just the beginning of future agony until we get 780 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 5: some discipline in common sense and guardrails, which we do 781 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 5: not have currently. 782 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 13: Doing some Bloomberg math in real time there, Senator, Indeed, 783 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 13: Joe and I were talking about all of the different 784 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,880 Speaker 13: amendments that have been put forward that do have the 785 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,919 Speaker 13: potential to drag out this process. And I understand you've 786 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 13: introduced one as well, the no default amendment, So talk 787 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 13: to us about what that is trying to accomplish. When 788 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 13: many of your colleagues have said that you can't amend 789 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 13: this because it sends it back to the House, then 790 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 13: we risk defaulting. 791 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 5: Well, and that is true, because whenever you're getting an 792 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 5: amendment on something like this, it's going to be a 793 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 5: message only you'd have to then maybe if it gets 794 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 5: a good support, try to reintroduce it in as legislation, 795 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 5: because you're right, this is not None of these get 796 00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 5: teed up unless they've already whipped the vote knowing that 797 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 5: they're going to go down. That's a little inside baseball, 798 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 5: but that's the way it works. 799 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 3: So then this is why people love Washington, Senator. 800 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 5: Well, I mean that's the way it works. I'm just 801 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 5: lucky that I got here at a time after I 802 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 5: spent you know, thirty seven years as a CEO and 803 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 5: CFO such a little business for most of that time, 804 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 5: but it did turn into a national company and you 805 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 5: got competition to boot. You got to earn your revenues. 806 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:28,120 Speaker 5: State governments, most of them have balance budget amendments are statutes. 807 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 5: It's the only place where this you can get by 808 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 5: with it, and it's going to catch up. For some 809 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:35,959 Speaker 5: of the reasons we talked about earlier, what this would 810 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 5: do on the amendment would be something that maybe should 811 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,240 Speaker 5: work if we ever want to put discipline into the process, 812 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,160 Speaker 5: not get up to the brink and then have every 813 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 5: Democrat who's generally unapologetic about wanting more government. It's now 814 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 5: up to twenty five percent of our GDP. It was 815 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 5: only twenty for most of a history of our country recently, 816 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 5: unless you were in a war, it always got put 817 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,320 Speaker 5: back down into that. And then remember we only generate 818 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 5: seventeen to eighteen percent of revenue. This would say if 819 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 5: you hit the X date, and once you cross that threshold, 820 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 5: when you have an X date assigned, then if you 821 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 5: don't get something done in thirty days, you have a 822 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 5: one percent cut Defense and domestic discretionary spending. Number one 823 00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 5: is an incentive not to get there. Number two. That's 824 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 5: kind of what we're going to have to start doing 825 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 5: sooner or later. If we ever quit spending, you know, 826 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 5: more than we take in, which has not happened since 827 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,000 Speaker 5: a couple Clinton years back in the late nineties. 828 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 3: You expect to get a vote on your amendment. 829 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 5: I think I'm going to get one. I think what 830 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 5: you were talking about there several others. I think it 831 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,719 Speaker 5: will get whittled down. I'm not so sure we'll We'll 832 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 5: probably go into late tonight early tomorrow. I was supposed 833 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 5: to do a floor speech on this half an hour ago, 834 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,880 Speaker 5: and that's typical because they're still working out the details 835 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,800 Speaker 5: of who all's going to get an amendment vote. 836 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,879 Speaker 13: Well, of course, you have plenty of colleagues, as we've 837 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 13: been talking about, pushing for them as well, including Senator 838 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 13: Lindsay Graham, who was speaking with Bloomberg earlier today saying 839 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 13: he was willing to drag this thing out till Tuesday, 840 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,240 Speaker 13: potentially after the X date, if his concerns around Ukraine 841 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 13: supplemental aid and defense aren't met. 842 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 5: And I'm not sure if he's doing that by wanting 843 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 5: an amendment himself. I understand that he wants a vote 844 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 5: on an amendment. He could say, well, even if I 845 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,799 Speaker 5: haven't a vote and it doesn't get amended, he could 846 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 5: take it out to Monday or Tuesday. Then everybody could 847 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 5: theoretically go home and come back. We'll find those logistics 848 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 5: out soon. But again, Lindsay comes from that side of 849 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,120 Speaker 5: our party that would be fiscal conservatives until it comes 850 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 5: to defense. Generally ten to fifteen other Republicans they would 851 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 5: be neo conservatives because they're the ones that generally make 852 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 5: the deal with all the Democrats to come up with 853 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 5: this now two trillion dollar deficit level that we run 854 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,799 Speaker 5: and would have been part of all of it. That's 855 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 5: the unholy alliance here that's got to change. And you're 856 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 5: not a fiscal conservative if you want it all to 857 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 5: come out of the other side of the aisles, you 858 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 5: know stuff. Until you're willing to hold everything accountable, it's 859 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 5: never going to work. You're going to be putting more 860 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 5: data on future generations. 861 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 3: So you're thinking of vote maybe midday tomorrow, Senator, if 862 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,359 Speaker 3: I'm reading you right, and I'm guessing you would not 863 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,920 Speaker 3: favor waiting until next Tuesday. 864 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,919 Speaker 5: No, I think that it depends if anyone senator can 865 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 5: tank the system or in other words, get rid of 866 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 5: the time agreement that would have to compress the time, 867 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 5: and that I think would if you took if you 868 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,320 Speaker 5: had no compression and you just let the clock run. 869 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 5: That's a vote next Monday or Tuesday. I'm still hopeful 870 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 5: that that won't happen. Lindsey's not going to get his 871 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 5: way either, and I think that he'd be doing what 872 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 5: oftentimes he and others would complain about. I don't want 873 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,719 Speaker 5: to delay the system. I want a handful of kind 874 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 5: of relevant amendments. It will take a little bargaining. It 875 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,400 Speaker 5: should have been done by now, but I have no 876 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 5: idea when that'll conclude, and that will delay the process. 877 00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 5: Once it starts, I think it should go pretty quickly. 878 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 13: What do you think the total vote tally is going 879 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 13: to end up looking like? Obviously you're in the no column, 880 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,359 Speaker 13: but how many of your Republican colleagues in the Senate 881 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 13: do you think are going to be a yes? 882 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 5: Well, when it's on something that's going to pass anyway 883 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 5: to where it's not super critical, if it's something where 884 00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,799 Speaker 5: you're going to be the deciding vote a lot of time, 885 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 5: it's different, then you may sacrifice even more of your 886 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 5: so called fiscal integrity for it. I think on these 887 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,840 Speaker 5: kinds of votes in the past, you're generally going to 888 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:17,959 Speaker 5: have fifteen to twenty five that will vote fiscally conservative 889 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 5: in this case, the neocons, the ones that put defense 890 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,560 Speaker 5: at a sacral sanct level, they are going to probably 891 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:32,400 Speaker 5: vote for it, even though Lindsey is even more concerned 892 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 5: than the rest of them might be. I think it'll 893 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 5: be very similar to other bills I've seen when it 894 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 5: comes to where you're really making a statement, only three 895 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 5: to five of us will vote for the fiscal kind 896 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 5: of aspect of things when there's not a real honest 897 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 5: pay for and honest payfars are politically almost impossible. They'd 898 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 5: be raising fees or taxes. No one wants to do that. 899 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 5: And the other way you can honestly pay for something 900 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,560 Speaker 5: is offset spending in some other already authorized area, and 901 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 5: many times that doesn't happen either. That's when you default 902 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:12,520 Speaker 5: the borrowing money. 903 00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 3: I was reading your tweet, Senator, and your take on 904 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,279 Speaker 3: this is making clear that you're going to vote no. 905 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,720 Speaker 3: You wrote, there's more drama here than usual, But sadly 906 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,759 Speaker 3: the play is going to end the same way. The 907 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,400 Speaker 3: big spenders in both parties getting together to increase the 908 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 3: size of the federal government. And so it brings me 909 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 3: back to the question about why do we have the 910 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,080 Speaker 3: debt ceiling anyway, because the entire argument was that it 911 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 3: forces people, trains their attention on the budget, It brings 912 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,000 Speaker 3: an inflection point, it forces a negotiation. Otherwise we would 913 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 3: just be spending like drunken sailors forever, even though we 914 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 3: haven't had regular order. To your point in the better 915 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,160 Speaker 3: part of a generation here, I guess I wonder where 916 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 3: your stand is on that. If the debt ceiling isn't 917 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 3: prompting a better fiscal behavior, why not get rid of 918 00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 3: it or align it with the fiscal years so we're 919 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 3: not going through this exercise all the time. 920 00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 5: Well, a couple reasons. If you didn't have it period, 921 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 5: it even be worse. And then when you use the 922 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 5: metaphor of a drunken sailor, remember that sailor is spending 923 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 5: a paycheck. He or she is not borrowing the money. 924 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,080 Speaker 5: That's the difference, and that's the thing that scares me most. 925 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 5: We're not, however, you spend your paycheck. I think if 926 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 5: you do it responsibly, and we've turned into a country 927 00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 5: of consumers and spenders the greatest generation and the way 928 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 5: you're successful in the long run is you get used 929 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,839 Speaker 5: to investing in saving. We've gotten so far away from that, 930 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,200 Speaker 5: and again that's been on display through our federal government 931 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,960 Speaker 5: since the Bush administration in at both sides of the 932 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 5: aisle been guilty. 933 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,280 Speaker 13: But Senator, if we're talking about the paycheck here, obviously 934 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,440 Speaker 13: the paycheck the government gets his taxes, right, So what yeah, 935 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 13: war revenue raises off the table. 936 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 5: So that goes back to what I said earlier. When 937 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,560 Speaker 5: you look at raising revenues in our system, you put 938 00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,440 Speaker 5: a wet blanket on the business investment side of our GDP. 939 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,640 Speaker 5: It's made up of business investment, it's made up of 940 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 5: consumer spending, net exports or imports. We've been in a 941 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:23,080 Speaker 5: deficit there for a long time, and then government spending, 942 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 5: which is just transferring money from the private sector to 943 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,680 Speaker 5: the government. And we can't generate because when you've had 944 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 5: taxes back when they were sixty seventy percent, go back 945 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,880 Speaker 5: to the Reagan years, you then have lower economic activity 946 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 5: and we generate in our current system the way it's structured, 947 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 5: on the average over fifty years, about eighteen percent of 948 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 5: our GDP. So if you raise taxes, you'll flush money 949 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 5: into the treasury for the next year or two. Then 950 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,839 Speaker 5: and growth goes down and you start to slide where 951 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,560 Speaker 5: you were before, and it's all there. Look at the data. 952 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,720 Speaker 5: That's what most people don't understand. 953 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,680 Speaker 13: That, Senator. Looking at the economic analysis from Wall Street economists, 954 00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 13: for example, that came out when McCarthy's bill was passed, 955 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 13: there would be an economic growth drag as well from 956 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 13: steep spending cuts. So in theory, if we're going to 957 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,799 Speaker 13: get our fiscal health in order, isn't growth going to 958 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 13: take a hit either way? Why not look at both ends. 959 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 5: I think the quality of your GDP is going to 960 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:31,399 Speaker 5: be better if it gets put through consumer spending outside 961 00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 5: of government, because resources are allocated through the markets, and 962 00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,600 Speaker 5: the place that we're really suffering as a country would 963 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 5: be private business investment. When you put more there, you 964 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 5: sacrifice a little in the present, but your future is 965 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,880 Speaker 5: much rosier. That goes back to do we want to 966 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,160 Speaker 5: be a nation of consumers and spenders. If we're going 967 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 5: to consume, do it through the private sector, don't do 968 00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 5: it through government. It gets hit with a twenty thirty 969 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 5: maybe thirty five percent administrative fee that goes along with 970 00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 5: it. It's not the same quality of GDP as it would 971 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:08,640 Speaker 5: be otherwise. 972 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,680 Speaker 3: Senator, you've been super generous with your time. We only 973 00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,359 Speaker 3: have a minute left, and I just have to ask, 974 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,880 Speaker 3: considering your aversion to Speaker McCarthy's work here and I 975 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,440 Speaker 3: guess President Biden's work, do you believe that Kevin McCarthy 976 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 3: should be speaker? Does he deserve to hold the gavel? 977 00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,640 Speaker 5: I think Kevin did the probably the best he could. 978 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,560 Speaker 5: It was a little bit I kind of think deceiving 979 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,200 Speaker 5: because I think many that enabled him to become speaker 980 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,680 Speaker 5: wanted him to hold closer to the bill that passed 981 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 5: out of the House. And here you look at any 982 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 5: of the ledger across any of the folks that are 983 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,920 Speaker 5: talking about this, this kind of stacks up as a 984 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:55,319 Speaker 5: net wind for the Democrats. But more than anything, there 985 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 5: are only a few of us that understand the macroeconomics, 986 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,719 Speaker 5: the micro eComics, and if run a business, take in 987 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,080 Speaker 5: finance one oh one. This just is a bad business 988 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 5: plan in general that repeats more of the same has government, 989 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,359 Speaker 5: and he's even a higher percentage enter. 990 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,800 Speaker 3: Thank you many thanks for spending time with us. Mike Brown, 991 00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:22,600 Speaker 3: this is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to the sound on podcast. 992 00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,840 Speaker 3: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 993 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,319 Speaker 3: and anywhere else you get your podcasts, and you can 994 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,359 Speaker 3: find us live every weekday from Washington, DC at one 995 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,400 Speaker 3: pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg dot com.