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Speaker 1: Why from our nations this budget thing is going to

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Speaker 1: do nothing space forts. I still think it's interesting President

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Speaker 1: Trump not playing his cards yet. Headlines Policy and Politics

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Speaker 1: Colliding Floomberg Sound On the insids, the influenceries, the insides.

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Speaker 1: I would rather see a congressional solution. It's part of

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Speaker 1: my DNA. The Senate map in looks a lot different

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Speaker 1: than it looked in. You really have a divide within

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Speaker 1: Team Trump. The present has to do exactly what people

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Speaker 1: sent him here to do, which is to get it done.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: nine one and World five point d two. Breaking news tonight,

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Speaker 1: attorneys for the former White House Council Don McGann have

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Speaker 1: asked a federal judge to deny a House Judiciary Committee

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Speaker 1: requests to enforce a subpoena for his testimony. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna bring you all of the latest developments coming from

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Speaker 1: earlier today with the impeachment inquiry in the House of Representatives,

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Speaker 1: which is still continuing this spite the House being on recess.

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Speaker 1: Will dive into all of those specifics where we are

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Speaker 1: on the timetable and what it means for Republicans in

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Speaker 1: the Senate with me for the hour. Roger Fisk, Democratic strategist,

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Speaker 1: longtime President Obama aid and principle of New Day Strategy.

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Speaker 1: And Michael Steele, a Republican strategist and a partner at

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Speaker 1: Hamilton's Place Strategies. He's the former Repress secretary to John

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Speaker 1: Bayner and a senior advisor to Jeb Bush's twenty sixteen

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Speaker 1: presidential campaign. All of that plus Mark Zuckerberg, what's he

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Speaker 1: up to? Facebook? Ready to take on the US government?

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Speaker 1: Let's begin the latest on the impeachment inquiry. We began

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Speaker 1: today with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, who, by the way,

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Speaker 1: is traveling overseas this week. He rejected the House Panels

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Speaker 1: plan to uh on subpoenas for a host of different

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Speaker 1: State Department officials. He said that he was quote unquote

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Speaker 1: concerned about portions of the request for information from the

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Speaker 1: State Department and its employ ease. He said that the

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Speaker 1: House Committee, which is investigating into the Ukraine affair try

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Speaker 1: is appearing to try to quote, intimidate, bully, and treat

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Speaker 1: improperly the distinguished professionals of the Department of State. Let

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Speaker 1: me be clear Secretary Pumpeo rights, I will not tolerate

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Speaker 1: such tactics, and I will use all means at my

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Speaker 1: disposal to prevent and expose any attempts to intimidate the

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Speaker 1: dedicated professionals whom I am proud to lead and serve

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Speaker 1: alongside at the Department of State. That's what Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State Mike Pompeo wrote back to the House UH Intelligence

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Speaker 1: Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, which is investigating throughout the recess

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Speaker 1: into the Ukrainian affair. So that's where we're gonna start

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Speaker 1: things off. This dynamic between the State's Department and now

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Speaker 1: the Democratic controlled House of Representatives. My guests are Roger Fisk,

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Speaker 1: Democratic strategist longtime President Obama ally and aid and principle

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Speaker 1: of New Day Strategy, and Michael Steele, Republican strategist and

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Speaker 1: partner at Hamilton Place Strategies. I mean they wanted Michael Steele.

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Speaker 1: They the Dems in the House wanted for State's Department

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Speaker 1: officials to testify like two days from now UH, and

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Speaker 1: Pompere is saying, hey, wait a minute, let's let's let's

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Speaker 1: hold the phone. Let's you know, let's let's put let's

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Speaker 1: not put the car before the horse here. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: for a variety of reasons. House Democrats want to move

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Speaker 1: very quickly in this impeachment inquirry. They know that voters

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Speaker 1: start voting in Iowa, New Hampshire shortly after the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the year. They want to wrap this up, ideally

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Speaker 1: in the month of November. But what they're running into

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Speaker 1: is the stone wall that the Trump administration has constructed

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Speaker 1: again and again and again. When confronted with requests from Congress,

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Speaker 1: They're going to have to fight every step of the

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Speaker 1: way for every scrap of information. And that's just gonna

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Speaker 1: They will probably prevail on a lot of it, but

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Speaker 1: it will take time. So so so Roger Fiska, a

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Speaker 1: longtime Democratic strategist. The House committees on Foreign Affairs, Oversight

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Speaker 1: at Intelligence, so this is three different committees. So I've

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Speaker 1: issued the subpoenas to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. They

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Speaker 1: wrote in a letter, quote, your failure or refusal to

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Speaker 1: comply with the subpoena shall constitute evidence of obstruction of

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Speaker 1: the House impeachment inquiry. So they're saying they might hold

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Speaker 1: him in in in uh in in obstruction of justice,

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Speaker 1: But are they are they really going to go that far?

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Speaker 1: First off, thanks so much for having me um, and

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Speaker 1: it's great to be here with Michael. I can imagine

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Speaker 1: that the the initial concern for Secretary of Pompeo when

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Speaker 1: he hears when he writes that de meeting bullying, intimidating

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Speaker 1: uh that he has a problem with that is normally

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Speaker 1: that's that's where the bullying and the intimidating and the

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Speaker 1: demeaning traditionally comes from in the Trump administration. Michael's right,

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Speaker 1: and that in the end, the the information will come

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Speaker 1: to light. I mean, I hate to use a cliche

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Speaker 1: from Shakespeare, but the truth will out, either directly or indirectly.

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Speaker 1: What this crew doesn't seem to understand is every time

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Speaker 1: it will come out one way or another. It's very

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Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting to listen and listen to them

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Speaker 1: lament the presence of leaks when at the same time

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Speaker 1: they're turning around and trying to stifle whistleblowers. And if

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Speaker 1: you if you create a climate where whistleblowers don't feel

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Speaker 1: like the process works, then the only other place for

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Speaker 1: whistleblowers to go is leaks. So these folks need to

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Speaker 1: decide if they're going to play this down the line

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Speaker 1: gonna drag their feet and push this on into next year.

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Speaker 1: No one knows how this can play out. Um, But

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Speaker 1: I do agree with Michael's earlier point that it's probably

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Speaker 1: in the Democrats interest to get this done relatively quickly.

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Speaker 1: But I think that rams up against kind of structural

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Speaker 1: realities and some of the tools that the president has

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Speaker 1: to play in terms of delay. So we know that

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Speaker 1: that that Secretary of Pompeo is on the Ukraine call

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Speaker 1: in question over the summer, but we but I'm not

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Speaker 1: We know Rudy Giuliani's wrapped up in all this, But

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what they would want from from State's

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Speaker 1: Department officials. I mean, what are they going after by

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Speaker 1: by meeting with them, because I mean, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: to some extent, a lot of these career folks at

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Speaker 1: the State's Department they don't want to be wrapped up

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Speaker 1: in this. My assumption is that their inquiry on specifically

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Speaker 1: on the State Department employees is whether there is a new, separate,

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Speaker 1: more secure system for storing records of certain phone calls

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Speaker 1: that used to be used for security reasons and is

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Speaker 1: now being used for political reasons. And they think that

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Speaker 1: state may be involved somehow in that process. That's my speculation.

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Speaker 1: The other or the other calls like the Australian Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Scott Morrison, would be housed about. And I think

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Speaker 1: what they're what they're trying to do is build a

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Speaker 1: public case for why what the president did is so

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Speaker 1: far out of the norm white constitutes corruption. And that's

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Speaker 1: an important part of this because while the polls are

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Speaker 1: starting to flip at the top line people supporting the

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Speaker 1: impeachment inquiry, he still retains near nine support among Republican

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Speaker 1: ooters and until and unless that changes, no matter what

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Speaker 1: the House does, they're not going anywhere in the Sunate Roger,

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Speaker 1: let me play for you switching gears on the other

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Speaker 1: big development today. So we actually heard today, did you

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Speaker 1: really from Ukraine President Zelinski following all of the latest developments,

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Speaker 1: and he was as point blank if he ever met

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Speaker 1: with President Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, even though that

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Speaker 1: summary phone call. The summary transcript of the July phone

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Speaker 1: call quote Zelinsky as telling President Trump that he was

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Speaker 1: aware of Juliani's efforts to uncover information about Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: So Zelinski was asked about this and Kiev, Ukraine, and

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Speaker 1: take a listen to his answer here is I'd like

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Speaker 1: to tell you that I never feel pressure. I have

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Speaker 1: lots of people who would like to put pressure on

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Speaker 1: me here and abroad, but I'm the president of an

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Speaker 1: independent Ukraine and i'd like to thank and my actions

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Speaker 1: suggest no one can put pressure on me. So Zelinski's saying,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know what he's saying there through the

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Speaker 1: He's saying, I'm untouchable. I guess it's what any leader

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Speaker 1: would say, right. It's not gonna say, well, I'm just well.

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Speaker 1: Our leader said he was waiting to be told what

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Speaker 1: to do from Saudi Arabia. But most leaders don't do things.

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Speaker 1: Let me play for you, Roger. Now what Giuliani had

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Speaker 1: before the House uh in Cell Committee. Here's really Giuliani. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm weighing the alternatives. I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: like go through it. I'll get all my evidence together,

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Speaker 1: I'll get Mike Shards. I don't know if they let

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Speaker 1: me use video tapes and tape recordings that I have.

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Speaker 1: There was Juliani last night on Fox News on Monday Night.

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Speaker 1: So the comparison that I can make is that his

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Speaker 1: this is obviously a performative style that he's doing. It

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Speaker 1: reminds me of Roger Stone in a way that he

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Speaker 1: wants to have this circus show so that when he,

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Speaker 1: if he decides to testify, it would be the Corey

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Speaker 1: Lewandowski show that we saw last week when Lewandowski testified. No,

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Speaker 1: it's very this is somewhat off topic, but I feel

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Speaker 1: compelled to say it. It's very interesting to me when

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Speaker 1: of the world, the conservative responses like, well, just toblay,

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Speaker 1: obey the law, do what law enforcement tells you. And

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Speaker 1: then when it when when it's someone like Juliani, or

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Speaker 1: a couple of months ago with Hope Picks and she

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Speaker 1: was weighing her options, it's all just a buffet no longer,

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Speaker 1: is it? The law no longer is it that you

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Speaker 1: should just listen to the rule of law, and and

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Speaker 1: and and and abide by it. It's a series of options.

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Speaker 1: So that to me is is just a trend that

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Speaker 1: Rudy's uh. I think one of the breaches that's most

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Speaker 1: interesting because it's always kind of the sub narratives that

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Speaker 1: think you are going to see a widening chasm between

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Speaker 1: the State Department and the way the former mayor of

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Speaker 1: New York City portrays his role. He is trying all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden to portray this as if he was tasked,

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Speaker 1: don't hear a lot of people having his back on

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Speaker 1: the State Department end of that, And and Rudy to

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Speaker 1: me seems a little bit unhinged. It's odd that you

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Speaker 1: would waive your phone and say come get it, it's

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Speaker 1: all right here, and then when people say, all right,

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Speaker 1: let's have your phone, He's like well, I've got options

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Speaker 1: I need to review here. Yeah, I think he's in

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Speaker 1: full Tasmanian double mode. I think that it is inevitable

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Speaker 1: that he's going to wind up testifying, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to require a really strong chairman and a

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Speaker 1: of him. All right, coming up, we're gonna dive into

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Speaker 1: the polls, which seemed to be moving toward more favorably

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Speaker 1: of disapproval of the president's actions on Ukraine. Plus what

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Speaker 1: does it mean for Republicans in the Senate panel, stays

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Speaker 1: Roger Fisk Michael Steele. Download Bloomberg Sound On podcast on

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Speaker 1: Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com, or by downloading a

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app. You can also find us on Radio

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Speaker 1: dot com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify. I'm Kevin cerelli

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Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent from Bloomberg TELEVI Jian in Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound On with

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Speaker 1: Kevin Surley on Bloomberg and one oh five point seven

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Speaker 1: F M H D two. So much to get through, folks,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this impeachment inquiry is just everybody scrambling trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out what does it mean for policy? What

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Speaker 1: does it mean for U. S. M c A. China?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, remember that China there, Lua was coming into

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Speaker 1: town next week. We're still keeping tabs on that. But

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Speaker 1: let's sort through what Americans are saying, because finally, finally

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Speaker 1: we've got some polls to forget about what all these

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Speaker 1: lawmakers think and what Americans think about this. I'm Kevin

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Speaker 1: Surreli cheap Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television of Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: My guests are Roger Fifth, Democratic strategists, longtime aid to

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Speaker 1: President Obama and principle of New Day Strategy. Michael Steels

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Speaker 1: here as well, Republican strategist. He's a partner at Hamilton

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Speaker 1: Place Strategies. He's the former press secretary to John Bader.

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Speaker 1: When's John Bayner coming on an each time? Now? Alright, cool,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk pot with him. We'll talk marijuana. He's always

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Speaker 1: talking marijuana. Senior advisor to Jeb Bush sixteen presidential campaign.

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Speaker 1: But seriously, he is invited. Um, all right, the polls

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Speaker 1: on impeachment. We talked about the latest what's going on

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Speaker 1: today with impeachment and the state's apartment and everything. The

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Speaker 1: CNBC All America Economic Survey found forty seven percent opposing

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Speaker 1: impeachment hearings and forty four percent approving. That difference is

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Speaker 1: well within the polls three point five percent margin of error. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is an economic survey, which it's eight hundred Americans nationwide,

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Speaker 1: conducted last week. It is a significant shift where fewer

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Speaker 1: Americans are opposed to impeachment, but it still suggests that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's I don't know, I mean, it's it's anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's up for grabs. Yeah, it's not. Impeachment is intrinsically unpopular.

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Speaker 1: Oversight is popular. Impeachment is intrinsically unpopular. It has the

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Speaker 1: feel of overturn, over turning the will of the people,

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Speaker 1: overturning a democratically elected president, and so there's always gonna

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Speaker 1: be a lot of reluctance. I think the thing that

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Speaker 1: Democrats are doing better now is, and facts are doing

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Speaker 1: this for them to a certain extent, is making the

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Speaker 1: case for why the president needs to be removed, rather

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Speaker 1: than simply waiting for the public to move and hoping

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Speaker 1: to capitalize on that. All right, Roger, let's look at

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Speaker 1: the CBS poll because more than half of Americans, according

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Speaker 1: to CBS, and an overwhelming number of Democrats, say they

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Speaker 1: approve of the fact that Congress has opened an impeachment

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Speaker 1: inquiry into President Trump. Notice what they did there by

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Speaker 1: the way, I mean, these are all different questions. They're saying,

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Speaker 1: do you support oversight? Do you support an impeachment inquiry?

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Speaker 1: It's it's solved in a way different types of questions.

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Speaker 1: But as the inquiry begins, according to CBS, there is

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Speaker 1: no national consensus on how to assess the president's actions.

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Speaker 1: That's what I find very interesting because the impeachment inquiry

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Speaker 1: into President Trump amongst republic gives according to the CBS poll,

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Speaker 1: of Republicans approve of it and of Republicans disapprove of

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Speaker 1: the impeachment inquiry rogers. So Republicans are still largely behind

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Speaker 1: the president. Yeah, that's not a surprise to me. There's

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Speaker 1: a couple of things about it. One, the challenge for

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Speaker 1: the president's team for the Muller investigation was to take

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Speaker 1: a complex narrative and simplify it. Their challenge here is

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Speaker 1: the reverse. They need to take a simple narrative and

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Speaker 1: make it complicated. And I was on TV this afternoon

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Speaker 1: spokesperson of from the current occupant of the White House's campaign,

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Speaker 1: and that's what she immediately tried to do, because I

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Speaker 1: laid out, this is a relatively digestible story that's being

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Speaker 1: told here in the Ukrainian situation, and then she wanted

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Speaker 1: to throw all this other kind of stuff in there

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Speaker 1: to make it this kind of tornado of things, when

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Speaker 1: in fact it's actually quite simple. So part of the

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Speaker 1: part of the polling, I think is mo thing because

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Speaker 1: it is bite size and it is digestible. I think

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Speaker 1: another part of the pulling is probably somewhat of the

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Speaker 1: less ideological people who are just exhausted by the fire

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Speaker 1: hose of conspiracy and vitriol that is the president of

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Speaker 1: the United States, so and then and then they and

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Speaker 1: then to speak about the Republican side of it a

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Speaker 1: little bit. I don't think anyone's under illusions and say,

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Speaker 1: you even have some spasm of conscience in the in

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Speaker 1: the Republican caucus of the Senate, which is I think

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Speaker 1: we can all agree with a steep climb at this point.

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Speaker 1: I do think in the long run that it is

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Speaker 1: the ultimate value of that exercise will be that the

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Speaker 1: Tom Cottons and the Marco Rubio's of the world are

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Speaker 1: gonna need to step up and you know, go thumbs

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Speaker 1: up or thumbs down, and they're going to have to

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Speaker 1: wear that and explain it for the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 1: That's my initial thinking on it. Uh, Michael play long

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Speaker 1: term because that's interesting, I mean, because you hear that

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Speaker 1: from from from from Democrats over the past couple of days.

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Speaker 1: Is this is this this moral issue for Senate Republicans,

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Speaker 1: the twenty Republicans who would have to get behind them.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know. I mean, part of

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Speaker 1: me thinks today's scandal is yesterday's you know, the tabloid story. Well,

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Speaker 1: the pace of the news cycle in the Trump era,

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Speaker 1: and it's probably not it's probably sorry to tell you,

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Speaker 1: it's probably not changing at all. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that I questioned House democrats strategy of

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Speaker 1: trying to wrap this up in November of en is,

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Speaker 1: you know, two weeks ago we were worried about a

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Speaker 1: sharpie hurricane in Alabama. Three weeks ago, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about buying green greenland. You know what where if you

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Speaker 1: if you everybody, if you have a vote, if you

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Speaker 1: have a vote on an article of impeachment passing the

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Speaker 1: House in November, of the Senate accepts it, perhaps does

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Speaker 1: something trial ish briefly, and an emotion to dismiss is

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Speaker 1: almost immediately in order and would presumably pass, and it'll

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Speaker 1: be done before Christmas. How many people are going to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about that in November when they are pulling

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Speaker 1: a lever deciding on the next I know this is

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Speaker 1: going to sound really cliche, because so the bottom line

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Speaker 1: is there's really no significant movement today on on Republicans

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Speaker 1: in the Senate moving away, and this motion motion to

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Speaker 1: dismiss is now in the zeitgeist here in Washington. To

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Speaker 1: quote my good buddy Tom Keenan Bloomberg, the zeitgeisty is

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Speaker 1: that McConnell would move quickly to a motion to dismiss,

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Speaker 1: and that this would all be wrapped up by the

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Speaker 1: holidays in a big red, shiny bow. I guess. But look,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean to be cliche, Roger, but

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this, and I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: get your take on it, about the exhaustion that that

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Speaker 1: folks who are in their car on their way home

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Speaker 1: from work and they're plugged in and they're smart people,

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Speaker 1: but this, this chaos coming from Washington. This doesn't even

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Speaker 1: feel like the impeachment of the nine nineties. And maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm way out on the reservation saying that, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like the impeachment of the es. It feels

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Speaker 1: like a cable news show. Well it's not even Washington.

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Speaker 1: To be very specific, I mean last week, um and Michael,

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Speaker 1: you know, was kind of enough to walk us through

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Speaker 1: some of the second tier scandals of the last few weeks.

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Speaker 1: But last week, with all that's going on in the world,

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Speaker 1: with all that has yet to be done by the

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Speaker 1: current occupant of the White House, the endless trade deals

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Speaker 1: and the various things that I understand, he's about to

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Speaker 1: pull us out of the Louisiana purchase. From what I

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Speaker 1: just recently heard, he's still found the find this finds

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Speaker 1: the time to take a swipe at a sixteen year

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Speaker 1: old girl, and in the course of taking a swipe

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Speaker 1: at a sixteen year old goal actually is willing to

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Speaker 1: peek around the drapes and reference mental health issues that

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Speaker 1: she may or may not have. Now, So to go

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Speaker 1: directly back to your question, that person driving home listening

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Speaker 1: to that, uh, that the the idea that this we

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Speaker 1: have sunk this low that an attack like that coming

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Speaker 1: from the president barely raises an eyebrow is really, I

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Speaker 1: think gets to the exhaustion point where people are just

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Speaker 1: want to get up in the morning and have a

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Speaker 1: boring Eisenhower era, a president that maybe maybe you like,

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Speaker 1: maybe you don't like, Maybe they're bland, we don't even

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Speaker 1: know their kids names. Like let's just get back to

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Speaker 1: like when the president did Rhodes and Wars and mildly

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Speaker 1: controversial stuff, but like this wild kind of shrapnel of

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Speaker 1: grievance that comes out of this individual on an hourly,

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Speaker 1: if not minute by minute basis, and he has nothing

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Speaker 1: to do with being president. He seems to think that

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Speaker 1: that's what his job is is to complain on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: But b it's it's it's It shatters the idea of

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Speaker 1: the chief executive of the country acting as some kind

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Speaker 1: of unifying force and some kind of individual that can

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Speaker 1: poke their head above the trees and look five and

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Speaker 1: ten years down the road and and and share with

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Speaker 1: the American people where they want to bring the country. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think there's no out that there is outrage fatigue

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Speaker 1: in the country. I think that people are exhausted. I

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Speaker 1: think that we're also need to remember, when looking at

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Speaker 1: all of this, that the economy is still doing extremely well,

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Speaker 1: and the president has yet to face a genuine test

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Speaker 1: of presidential leadership in the sense that nine eleven or

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Speaker 1: the decision to Charlotte, it wasn't nine eleven. I mean,

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Speaker 1: but Charlotte Felle is a pretty bad moment for the country.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel that his response measured up to the moment.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone does. Alright, coming up, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk policy. We're gonna talk Uh Facebook, Did you guys

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Speaker 1: see this? Mark Zuckerberg is weighing in on all of

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Speaker 1: the war and world break up, big tech. What does

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Speaker 1: he have to say about that? We'll dive into that panel,

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Speaker 1: stays Roger Fisk. Michael Steele. Download the Bloomberg Sound on

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Speaker 1: podcasts on Apple, it Tunes, at Bloomberg dot com, or

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Speaker 1: by downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also find

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Speaker 1: us on Radio dot com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cirelli. You're listening to Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg's

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Speaker 1: owned on with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg and one or

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Speaker 1: five h d two. We got to talk about Mark Zuckerberg.

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Speaker 1: Did you follow this? The Verge, the website the Verge

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Speaker 1: dot com has an explosive bombshell report out today. They

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Speaker 1: got the audio from a July company meeting to company

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Speaker 1: meetings in July where Mark Zuckerberg. They got two hours

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Speaker 1: of leaked audio and Mark Zuckerberg valied Facebook employees against critics, competitors,

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Speaker 1: the US government and Senator Elizabeth Warren. Here they are

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Speaker 1: Facebook in the midst of trying to write the course.

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Speaker 1: You know, they were out the other week without to

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Speaker 1: dinner with Senator Mark Warner, Democrat from Virginia, and some

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Speaker 1: other Democrats. He was at the White House the other week.

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Speaker 1: They were trying to to write the course of all

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Speaker 1: of the stuff for lack of a better word, that

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Speaker 1: has been going on with Facebook. You know, they got

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Speaker 1: the five billion are fine from the Federal Trade Commission

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Speaker 1: over privacy issues. They set the terms of the agreement themselves,

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Speaker 1: They settled a case with the Securities and Exchange Commission,

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Speaker 1: and they got pretty good quarterly earnings in July. So

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Speaker 1: all of that is why this leaked audio is so

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Speaker 1: baffling to many people here inside of the Beltway. And

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Speaker 1: that's why we're so glad to have Roger Fisk, Democratic strategiest,

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Speaker 1: long time President Obama AID and principle of New Day

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Speaker 1: Strategy here with me and Michael Steele, Republican strategist partner

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Speaker 1: at Hamilton Place Strategies. All right, take a listen, Roger

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Speaker 1: to what Mark Zuckerberg had to say back in the

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Speaker 1: July meeting about Senator Elizabeth Warren, now the Democratic presidential

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Speaker 1: front runner, her efforts to break up Big Tech. Here

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Speaker 1: he is like Elizabeth Warren here and thinks of the

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Speaker 1: right answers to bring up the company. And um, you

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Speaker 1: know i'm elected president that I would I would bet

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Speaker 1: that we will have a legal challenge, and I would

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Speaker 1: bet that we will win the legal challenge the end

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Speaker 1: about uh. Here's also a mark uh Mark, Mark Zuckerberg

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Speaker 1: had to say about Elizabeth Warren. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: this still for us, Yeah, I mean I don't have to,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a major law dude against our own government.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's not like the addition that you want

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Speaker 1: to be in when you're you know, I mean, it's like,

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Speaker 1: we we care about our country and I want to

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Speaker 1: work with our government to do a good things and

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Speaker 1: then um, but but look at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: if someone's gonna try to threaten something that ex postential,

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Speaker 1: you go to that. Any fight, you go to the mat,

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Speaker 1: and then you fight Roger Fisk. This is explosive reporting

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00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: by by the Verge dot com because it's almost a

429
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: window into what Mark Zuckerberg actually thinks. Well, earlier we

430
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: were talking about, you know when when you were quoting

431
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: the president of the Ukrainian I think he played a

432
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,120
Speaker 1: clip and he said I never felt pressured at et cetera.

433
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: And I said, well, that's what a leader of a

434
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: country does. And I think the same thing applies here.

435
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: I don't think you're ever going to have a CEO,

436
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: like if you look think back to a hundred years

437
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: ago with the railroad, where people were like, you know what,

438
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: we we actually should be broken up. And so to me,

439
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: it makes sense that he's sending this message internally because

440
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a I'm sure it's a relatively genuine

441
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: reflection of where he's at, you know, philosophically and things

442
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: like that. The juicier narrative is like, who actually took

443
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: it upon themselves to record this? And release it and

444
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Um, but I don't I don't

445
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: think that's any different than any other CEO worth their

446
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 1: salt would say, which, of course, no one's gonna unilaterally

447
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: proactively disarmed. Yeah, I mean, I think this is this

448
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: is a reminder that for all the talk of breaking

449
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: up big tech inside Washington, that the the they remain popular.

450
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 1: People like using Facebook, they like being on it, they

451
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: like the connections it brings to them. And we have

452
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 1: a First Amendment in this country that is platform agnostic.

453
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: You have a right to express yourself and that's that's

454
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 1: protected by the Constitution and that's not going to change.

455
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: So Zuckerberg is probably right about his ability to survive

456
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: this sort of attempt at regulation. Do you think it

457
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: changes the calculus? Roger from From lawmakers and both parties

458
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: up on Capitol Hill, we are increasingly skeptical about the

459
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: role big tech faces, especially as there appears to be

460
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: a new, regular, new regulations on the horizon for big tech. Well,

461
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: it's it's it's interesting because when I'm very reluctant, when

462
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: we get into these kind of conversations, I'm reluctant to

463
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 1: use kind of monolithic phrases because when we say big tech,

464
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 1: the challenges um and the potential vulnerabilities of a Twitter

465
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: versus that same host of vulnerabilities for a Google versus

466
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: that same host of vulnerabilities for Facebook are three very

467
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: very different situations with different ramifications in terms of like

468
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: are they editing, are they a publishing platform, etcetera. So

469
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: I think it's best to just look at each situation

470
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: kind of um unto itself, because when we use a

471
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: broad term like big tech, I don't think it's doing

472
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: justice to the flexity for Facebook. Yeah, well for Facebook.

473
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: I mean, Michael Stie, do you think that this if

474
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: these lawmakers, you know, they're increasingly skeptical of Facebook, Google, Amazon,

475
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: and you hear comments like this, it's it's very different

476
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: than what he was saying to lawmakers the other week. Sure,

477
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it's necessarily surprising that the

478
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: message internal message to member folks that the company is

479
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: going to be different than his message to members on

480
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: the hill or people in the administration. And I think

481
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: that there are signs of a good faith effort to

482
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 1: figure out how to address some of the people who

483
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: abuse the platform, people who spread false information, people who

484
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: spread hate, speech. I don't think anyone wants to run

485
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: a platform that is involved in that kind of activity.

486
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: The important thing is figuring out a way to do

487
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: it that respects our constitutional rights and allows people to

488
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: continue to enjoy the service that Facebook offers if they

489
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: want to. All right, coming up much more from the panel.

490
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: What's on their radar? I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent

491
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Television of Bloomberg Radio. You're listening to Bloomberg one.

492
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg's Sound on with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg

493
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven h D two Shrl Crow?

494
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: Whatever happened to Shroke Frow? Remember that song? That's one

495
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: of my sister's favorite musical artist. I love Schryl Crow.

496
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: She's great. I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg

497
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 1: Television and Bloomberg Radio. And my guests are Roger Fisk,

498
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: Democratic strategist, longtime President Obama aid and principle of New

499
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: Day Strategy, and Michael Steele, republican strategist partner at Hamilton's

500
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: Place Strategies. He's the former press guy to the former

501
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: Speaker of the House, John Bainer, remember him, John Bayner.

502
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: What's on your radar? Gentlemen, this is my favorite part

503
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: of the show. You tell me something that's on your

504
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: radar that we're not covering. We've talked about impeachment, we

505
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: talked about Zuck. What's on your radar. I'm gonna start

506
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: with Michael Steele because I always feel like Roger likes

507
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: to have a he like gives me this look where

508
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: he's like, yes, I'm going to say something. It will

509
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: make you uncomfortable and you might get in troke for it,

510
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: and I'm like, alright, anyway, Michael'll go ahead. So, tangentially

511
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: related to impeachment, I'm wondering whether the progress on an

512
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,479
Speaker 1: impeachment inquiry makes it more likely that will pass U

513
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: S m c A. What do you think I think

514
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: it actually does. I think that one of the biggest

515
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: arguments against Democrats right now that Republicans are making is

516
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 1: that they're doing impeachment rather than working on the country's problems,

517
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: rather than working together to address all these things. And

518
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: I think passing U. S m c A on a

519
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: bipartisan basis through the House and Senate would be really

520
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: good for a lot of members and senators up for election.

521
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: Smart politics for Speaker Pelosi to be able to say, hey,

522
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: I'm impeaching, but by the way, here's a win. Wow.

523
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: So it's like it's like a backhanded yeah, and it's

524
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: the politics for for Senate Republicans were potentially vulnerable. Do

525
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: you think, before we get to what's on your radar,

526
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: do you agree with that? Roger? I can see the

527
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: logic in it. One of the things that is waiting

528
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: for U. S. M c A. As people try to

529
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: get it, it's moment in the sun is unfortunately waiting

530
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: for it is its moment in the sun. For example,

531
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: there's there's ten years of protections built into it for

532
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 1: big Pharma for example, UM that does not reflect itself

533
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: and in the Canadian are specifically the Canadian it's about

534
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: reimportation and things like that. So just getting to the

535
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: point where it's put on the floor and debated that

536
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: could be where some of the real problems come up,

537
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: because when you open the lid of that thing, there's

538
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,239
Speaker 1: gonna be some narratives in there that are not just

539
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: cut and dry job creating kind of things. Alright, alright, yeah,

540
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: I think there's this working sense that impeachment provided some

541
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: type of hurdle on the floor to get floor time

542
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: by the end of the year. But that's smart Michael

543
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: Steele as well as Roger fisk to think, Actually, if

544
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: you're Speaker Pelosi and you're and you're trying to politic

545
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: this thing, uh, there's there's a good chance that that

546
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: you might want to say, Hey, we're doing we're doing

547
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: the nation's business. We're getting business done while we're also

548
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: taking over into consideration. Do we know a timetable? As

549
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: she said anything, and they're we're not gonna hear much

550
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: of October And the last the last comments from her

551
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: on this was I believe to and in a public

552
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: interview the other week where she said she wants to

553
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: get to yes. All right. So that's where we're at

554
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: on U S m c A. That's what's on Michael

555
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: Steele's radar. Roger Fiske, what's on your radar? Nothing that's

556
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: gonna turn over the cargo in your hold. Unfortunately this

557
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: time I always liked to get you know, I'd like

558
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: to keep it interesting. Sometimes it's like something occurs to

559
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: me right after you ask me, and now, but there's

560
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: like this sleeper narrative down in Florida, and maybe it

561
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: relates to um, the kind of Trump Rush I thing,

562
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: or maybe it doesn't. But there's a deputy sheriff who

563
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: quit a few years ago named John Duggan, and then

564
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: he became a hacker. And now he has popped up

565
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: as having renounced his US citizenship and now he lives

566
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: in Moscow. So it's John Mark Duggan. It's the Palm

567
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: Beach County Sheriff's office, and it is a wild and

568
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: wacky story. Um. Supposed he was involved in some of

569
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: the efforts to get a dirt on the Seth Rich

570
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: situation and a whole bunch of other things. This could

571
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: just be kind of an outlier kind of thing, um,

572
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: But it'll be interesting to watch as time goes on

573
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: if the tentacles of this individual specific story start to

574
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: connect to other things that have been in the news

575
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: for the last year or two. Oh boy, all right,

576
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 1: that's that's definitely on your radar. All right, here's what's

577
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: on my radar. Hong Kong. I mean, this has just

578
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: been this story Hong Kong protesters. I'm reading from CNN.

579
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: Hong Kong protesters hit the streets as China marks the

580
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: seventy years of communist rule. The New York Times Hong

581
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: Kong police shoot a protester eighteen years old with a

582
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: live bullet for the first time. The lead from the

583
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: New York Times Hong Kong. Hong Kong police officer on

584
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: Tuesday shot a teenage demonstrator, the first time in months

585
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: of protest that a live round was fired at a protester.

586
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: The shooting captain an evening of violent protest, escalating the

587
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,960
Speaker 1: territories political crisis. On the same day that the central

588
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: government staged a huge military parade in Beijing to celebrate

589
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: seventy years of communist rule. Wow, Michael Steel, Yeah, it's

590
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary situation. And there's been some interesting back

591
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: and forth between the president's uh celebration of this Chinese Anniverse,

592
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Anniversary and a lot of Republicans on the

593
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: Hill who are using it appropriately in my view, as

594
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: an opportunity to talk about Chinese repression and some of

595
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: these tactics. Ian Bremer, he's a political scientist author. UH.

596
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: He's also, of course the president of the Eurasia Group.

597
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: I've been glued to his Twitter feed on the issue

598
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: of of what's going on in Hong Kong, because he

599
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: has these videos that he's tweeting out and it's it's roger,

600
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's gripping. I mean, here, just think

601
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: about it. Shi Jing paying a China president, shi Jing

602
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: Ping has this hold of power over China for so long,

603
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: for the rest of his life essentially, and he's celebrating

604
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: communist rule. And while that's going on, there's there's these

605
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: democratic lowercase, the democratic protests happening in Hong Kong, and

606
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: they shot an eighteen year old. To think of the

607
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: amount of resolve and character and strength that these folks

608
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: have to have to go out into the streets with

609
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: all the facial recognition software and everything else that's um

610
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: been deployed around Asia frankly to to ensnare people like this,

611
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: These are heroes. They should be embraced by the West.

612
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: These are people that are fighting for rights that we

613
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: have long since started to take for granted in this country,

614
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 1: and we should be shoulder to shoulder with them, and

615
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: we should be we should be seeing and hearing a

616
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: lot more messaging about solidarity and free people, ultimately gravitating

617
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: towards the Western democratic experiment UM from the leaders of

618
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: this country. And I just want to read a statement

619
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: for UM Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who released a

620
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: statement today saying, quote, on the seventie anniversary of the

621
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: People's Republic of China, we should pause to recognize the

622
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: many millions of lives lost under Chinese Communist rule. It

623
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: is darkly fitting that on the seventieth anniversary of the PRC,

624
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: it's agents would be reduced to using force against protesters

625
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: in Hong Kong who seek to preserve the basic personal freedoms.

626
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: That's what's on my radar, and it should be on

627
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: everybody's radar as well. That situation quickly on folding. My

628
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 1: thanks to Roger Fist, democratic strategist, longtime President Obama AID

629
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: and principle of New Day Strategy. Also my thanks to

630
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: Michael Steele, republican strategist partner at Hamilton Place Strategies, former

631
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: House or former Press Secretary of the House Speaker John Byner.

632
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: You can download the bloombergswn on podcast on Bloomberg dot com.

633
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Crelli. You're listening to Bloomberg