WEBVTT - Oath Keepers Convicted 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, Pete Sen. Welcome to Okay app Daily with 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:19.079 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:24.960 I'm so excited to welcome back to woke after many 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.160 many weeks of our schedules not matching up and being 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:33.480 in court. Glenn Kirschner, MSNBC Legal analyst and the host 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:38.080 of Justice Matters here to give us a supersized breakdown 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:43.920 into the Oathkeeper's trial that just concluded last week with 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:49.720 a seditious conspiracy conviction four Stuart Rhodes, the founder of 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.480 the Oathkeepers, as well as another one of his band 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:57.960 of idiots. Glenn will give us an entire overview into 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.040 the implications for the verts in this trial and the 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.080 fact that in the upcoming weeks we have the second 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:09.080 part of the Oathkeepers trial that will be taking place, 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:12.479 as well as the trial of the Proud Boys. What 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:16.600 does this mean for Jack Smith is special counsel that 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:22.000 was appointed by Merritt Garland to oversee the investigation into 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.520 Donald Trump and whether or not he can be tied 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.280 to the insurrection. So we get into that and so 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:34.919 much more on this supersize, jam packed interview with our friend, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:42.120 welcome him back to woke F Glenn Kirshner. Folks, it 0:01:42.160 --> 0:01:45.480 has been a long time and I am so happy 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.040 and grateful to welcome our friend Glenn Kirshner back to 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:54.960 woke F Daily. Glenn, you have been on duty in 0:01:55.080 --> 0:02:01.280 the courthouse for weeks and weeks and weeks, UM, following 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.600 the UM trial of the oath Keepers right the the 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.800 I believe it is five people that were on uh 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:15.400 that were on trial, including the founder of the Oath Keepers, 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:21.040 Stuart Rhodes. This week, UM, the verdict finally came out 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.080 and it was a mixed verdict in a lot of 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.280 ways that I'm sure you'll be able to walk us through. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:29.320 But what has made the headlines and made you a 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:33.240 staple UH for the for this for for this week 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.720 on every show on MSNBC, has been the verdict that 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.799 came down for two of the oath Keeper members UM 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.160 for seditious conspiracy. So I'm just going to turn it 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.880 over to you to tell you know, to tell us 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.040 what this mixed bag is and how important it was 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.359 for the Department of Justice to have this win of 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.360 this very um UH it is. It is not a 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:09.840 commonly used charge that they have now won in this verdict. Yeah, 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.280 really interesting and there's tons to unpack, and I'm so 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.040 happy to be back with you. We were doing this 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.280 every week forever and then all of a sudden, our 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:20.359 schedules went sideways, So I'm glad to be back. So 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:22.880 this really was historic. I think you can you can 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:28.760 accurately use that word to describe a seditious conspiracy conviction, 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.720 the first one for what these people did at the 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:37.000 Capitol on January sixth, the first one the federal prosecutors 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.880 have won since the mid nineties. It is a rarely 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:43.320 brought charge, which is a good thing because that means 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.600 generally people aren't trying to violently overthrow the government. But 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.320 you know, it's important for so many reasons. First of all, 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.560 as you say, it was a mixed verdict, But having 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.400 sat through all seven weeks of the trial and full disclosure, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.320 I think I can be objective. But the lead prosecutors 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.560 where my former homicide prosecutors, Jeff Nessler and Kate Racozzi. 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.720 I actually tried Kate's first murder case with her when 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.840 she was a young homicide prosecutor. I probably learned more 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.640 from her than she learned from me. This was an 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.560 expertly tried case. And Danielle, you and I beat up 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.360 on the Department of Justice regularly when we believe they 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.800 need a good whooping to kind of prod them into action. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.760 But I think we need to give props where they 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.840 are due. And this prosecution team and this FBI team 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.479 presented a masterful case to the jury. It was a 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.800 mixed verdict, but having watched the evidence, I understand why. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.800 Let me just give you one example. Most importantly, they 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.920 convicted the two leaders, Elmer Stuart Rhodes, the head of 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.240 the Oath Keepers, and one of his top lieutenants, Kelly Megs. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.080 Convicted them of seditious conspiracy the attempted violent overthrow of 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.200 the government, or an attempt to use violence to stop 0:04:56.480 --> 0:05:00.240 the execution of the laws of the United States, just 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.200 precisely what they did. They tried to stop the certification 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:08.120 of Joe Biden's win. The others were followers. Now, they 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.560 did some egregious stuff, and they were all convicted of 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:16.480 multiple felony crimes, but the jury made some common sense 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:22.520 decisions about how far they wanted to reach with conspirator liability. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.800 This is the most compelling example Stuart Elmer Stewart Rhodes 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:30.240 was convicted of all counts except one interfering with the 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.040 duties of a police officer to use Lehman's terms, because 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:37.760 he never went into Here's why that's so interesting for 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:43.800 vital nerds like me. He as a member of the conspiracy, indeed, 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:47.520 as the head of the conspiracy. Conspiracy law says every 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:52.120 member of the conspiracy can be convicted for every single 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:56.440 crime committed by every other member of the conspiracy, even 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.839 if that person didn't participate in it. Now, the law 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:04.599 allows that, but the law doesn't require that. So these 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.920 jurors were crazy, attentive and thoughtful in the way they 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.679 parsed out the evidence and did what may feel right 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:19.120 in holding everybody responsible. But here and there saying no, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.200 we're not going to convict mindlessly on all charges. We're 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.320 gonna thoughtfully assess the evidence. Now, the reason that's so important, 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.680 as appellate lawyers will tell you, is that shows that 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.800 this jury was not just unduly swayed or prejudiced by 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:39.680 the nature of these egregious crimes. They still thoughtfully work 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.800 through it. That actually strength strengthens the case on appeal, 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:49.479 and I predict Judgemita presided over the trial extraordinarily. Well, 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.320 all of these convictions will be appealed and all of 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.159 them will be affirmed on appeal. Now, what are some 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.840 of the other takeaways? Yeah, this one I love. Next 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.000 week we have part two of the oath Keeper's seditious 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:08.719 conspiracy trial. Remember that military stack going into the capital 0:07:08.839 --> 0:07:12.480 that day with these little faux soldiers with their hands 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.640 on each other's shoulders, marching into the Capitol in their 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:19.920 play military uniforms. When they got in there, seven of 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.320 them split off one way to go to the House chambers. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.440 The other seven split off to go to the Senate chambers. 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.760 They wanted to stop what was going on in both chambers. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:35.120 We only went we federal prosecutors only took on half 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.720 of that stack. Next week, the second half of the 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.720 stack goes on trial for seditious conspiracy. December thirteenth, the 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.880 Proud Boys go on trial for seditious conspiracy. So what 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.880 do these guilty verdicts of seditious conspiracy do, Danielle. Every 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.280 one of those defendants is meeting with his lawyer or 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.120 her lawyer right now and saying, we got we gotta 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.840 renegotiate a possible guilty, hopefully with cooperation, because the government 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.880 just proved beyond a reasonable doubt we all were engaged 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:09.720 in a seditious conspiracy. We're screwed. What does that do? 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.880 It will undoubtedly prompt more guilty please, probably with cooperation. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.720 And here's the best part of all of that. We 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.400 know who some of the suits of the insurrection are 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.640 that we're intimately involved with oath Keepers and Proud Boys. 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:33.800 So the likelihood that we will now see indictments of 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:38.840 Roger Stone, Alex Jones, and Mike Flynn have shot up 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.480 as a result of this conviction. One last takeaway I 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.920 just I wrote a piece for MSNBC Daily and I 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.320 put the main takeaways in that piece. It went up 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:49.640 a day or two ago. One last one, Even though 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:53.120 there are so many is the prosecutors were really smart 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.319 about not injecting politics into this trial. Well, how can 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.679 you not inject politics into an attempt to overthrow the government. 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.960 They almost never even uttered the name Donald prosecutors because 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.640 they didn't want to make this about politics. They wanted 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.000 to make it about violence and an attempt to undermine 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:16.040 our democracy, regardless of political affiliation. But the defendants, including 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:21.480 Elmer Rhodes dragged politics into the courtroom at every opportunity. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:26.040 Danielle I wish, I wish we could have broadcast Elmer's testimony. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:30.559 It was so deceitful, it was so off putting, it 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.720 was so abrasive because he said to the jury the 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:40.559 twenty twenty presidential election was unlawful and unconstitutional. And then 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.960 he said to them, the disbarred Yale lawyer that he is, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:48.360 he said, ladies and gentlemen, I'm a constitutional expert. Now 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:55.400 who anointed him the arbiter of the constitutionality of presidential elections? 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:00.480 I don't know, but he thought because he determined it 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.920 was unconstitutional, he and the oath keepers could do anything. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.000 They damned well pleased the first stop to Joe Biden's certification. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.520 They dragged politics into the courtroom, and the jury, by 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:16.360 its verdicts, said to them, you were not acting as patriots, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.320 because all five of these defendants trying to say they 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:22.160 were patriots, You weren't patriots, your traitors. We reject a 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:27.200 big lie, reject your rigged election narrative, and all of 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:30.920 you mo fos are guilty. That is a nice atmospheric 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:36.719 benefit of this jury's decision to convict them for what 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:41.600 they did on January sixth. You know, one of the 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.320 things that I have been wanting to ask you is 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:52.040 in the trial they brought in the voicemail either was 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:56.440 a voicemailer or was a text message of Rhodes saying 0:10:56.480 --> 0:11:00.079 that they should have brought more weapons in, right, that 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.080 if they had known how things were going to go out, 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.520 they should have brought more weapons in. They would have 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:08.920 strung up Nancy Pelosi. Um. And I mean it was 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:14.960 really violent and really incredibly off putting, And I want 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:21.120 to know how you saw the jury react to that, 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:26.280 to that statement. That's number one and then two, you know, 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:31.080 the other thing about the election being stolen and the 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.600 election being rigged. Was there anything in his testimony where 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:40.880 he said we were acting on behalf of the President 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.959 of the United States, waiting for him to essentially either 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:49.560 call for martial law or or I forget what it 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.679 was like to there there was another act, the insurrect 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.559 or waiting for the president to you know, and enact 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:01.240 the Insurrection Act. Was any of that said in his 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.559 testimony and statement? Yeah, So to answer your first question, 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.960 I think you saw the jurors were pretty sort of 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.360 reserved and circumspect and thoughtful. I think they really seemed 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:17.160 to appreciate the weight and the gravity of what they 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:22.719 were being asked to do. But particularly when the defendants testified. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.640 Three of the five defendants testified, which is really unusual 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:28.360 in a big federal trial. They usually rely on the 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.000 government's very high burden of proof and the presumption of innocence, 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.079 and once they start opening their mouths, they get cross 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.080 examined and they often fall apart, as did all three 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.360 of these defendants. But you could see when some of 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:48.120 the more expressly violent evidence, the posts, the texts, the 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.600 recorded statements came into evidence, you could kind of see 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:55.560 them gently recoil even though they were trying not to. 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:00.520 And the one you mentioned, I mean, think about this defendant, 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.880 Elmer Stewart Rhodes said, the only thing I regret is 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:05.920 not that there was all this violence at the Capitol, 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.439 not that the certification was actually stopped. It was delayed 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.480 so they succeeded at least until they could reassemble and 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.920 continue certifying Joe Biden's win. Not that people were killed. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.840 He said. The only thing I regret is we didn't 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.160 bring our weapons in because we could have. I'm going 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.680 to paraphrase, I don't remember his exact words. We could 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.800 have killed a bunch of politicians and I would have 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.640 strung up Nancy Pelosi from the lamp. Post human beings. 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.000 If you have any moral core, you can't help but 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:45.920 recoil from that, and they did. And then your second question, 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.480 with respect to was there anything that expressly tied Donald 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:53.439 Trump into what happened on January sixth, you asked were 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:57.160 they acting at the direction of or were they waiting 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:00.920 for orders? From the answer to your first question is 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.520 they really weren't acting at the direction of I would 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.520 love to say they were, because that would more firmly 0:14:09.000 --> 0:14:13.800 sort of entrench Donald Trump into this seditious conspiracy. But they, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:18.000 you know, el Elmer kept saying in recorded video statements, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:22.360 you know, mister President, invoke the Insurrection Act so we 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:25.840 can come in with our guns ablazing. I'm taking liberties 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:31.200 with his exact words. But if you don't, the oath 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.840 keepers will take matters into their own hands. And what 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.080 Danielle is Donald Trump didn't. So I think that the 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.120 fair assessment of the evidence is Donald Trump didn't tell 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.880 them to do it. They weren't acting at the request 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.960 of Donald Trump. Indeed, he didn't even do something they 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.640 wanted him to do because they invoke the Insurrection Act 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.560 because that would have unleashed them and their weapons. So 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.960 but it really is I don't want it to sound deflating, 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:06.840 because the evidence is what it is. But but because 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:10.040 the prosecutors were so careful not to bring Donald Trump 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.480 into the courtroom figuratively the specter of Trump, because you 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.920 don't know what the political ideologies or preferences are of 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.640 the twelve people in the jury box. That doesn't mean 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.120 they don't have a whole bunch more evidence. But the 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.440 evidence that was presented in this trial does not lead 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.080 to the conclusion that they were acting at the direction 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:33.560 of Donald Trump. Indeed, it suggests they wanted Donald Trump 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.840 desperately to do something that he wouldn't do invoke the 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:42.320 Insurrection Act. But there's so much other evidence that warrants 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.800 an indictment of Donald Trump for inciting an insurrection and 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.160 attempting to overthrow the government that you know this this 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.760 trial may not have forwarded the bat ball, but it 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.200 doesn't really matter at the end of the day. You 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.960 know there's something there are There are a couple of 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.520 things that have that have come up over the last 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:04.360 couple of weeks. One the reminder that there were members 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.520 of Congress who were using the oath Keepers as their 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:13.680 own quote unquote private detail. Right, So was that brought 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.520 up in the trial or how do you think that 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:22.440 that information can and should be used moving forward as 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.840 we look ahead, as you said at the top, to 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:30.880 the second Stas trial as well as the Proud Boys, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:37.000 Because when I think about Alex Jones, Mike Flynn, and 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.640 Roger Stone, I think about the way in which they 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:48.200 were utilizing these two groups as their private militia and army, right, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:54.000 And so how does that evidence, how does that knowing 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.880 help these cases as they as they move forward. So 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.880 I'll stop there because I have a follow up. Okay, 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:08.280 So there really was no mention of members of Congress 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:13.320 in this trial. Why because that information was unnecessary to 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.120 convict the oath Keepers of the crimes with which they 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.760 were charged. So again, the prosecutors were smart not to 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:26.280 stray into political territory that was unnecessary for purposes of 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:31.280 winning guilty verdicts. Now, yeah, there's a lot to unpack 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.439 on the members of Congress front, because I do believe 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.600 some of them were complicit in the insurrection. The oath 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:43.879 keepers kept saying, we were there just providing protection, security details. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:49.000 But that was such full because one when they got there, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.359 they didn't protect anybody, no security details. And more importantly, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:59.000 the thousands of text messages and signal chats and Facebook 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:03.840 posts where they were communicating nothing about security details. It 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:05.560 was all we got to get our guns. We got 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.959 to go put a stop to this. We gotta And 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:12.000 then following on that, Elmer Rhodes said in one of 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.000 his posts, all right, everybody, we have to keep saying 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.160 Insurrection Act, Insurrection Act, Insurrection Act, because that will give 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.679 us legal cover for what we're doing. So all of 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.639 this we're there to provide security details to members of 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.879 Congress or others was cover. It was bs right because 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.200 they knew what they were really there to do. So 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.440 I don't know that there was no evidence that they 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.880 were providing any sort of services for members of Congress 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:44.880 that day. But here's the thing. We know that members 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.680 of Congress were complicit in any number of ways in 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.960 either the insurrection itself or in providing aid and comfort 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:58.159 to those who participated in the insurrection. And what needs 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:01.520 to happen now and I hope Special Counsel Jack Smith 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:03.200 is just the person to do. What we can talk 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.000 more about that what needs to happen now is one, 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.480 they need to see if there's enough evidence to criminally 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:13.720 indict all of these members of Congress who are part 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:19.160 of the insurrection. And two they need to be there 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.280 needs to be a challenge to them continuing to sit 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:25.840 as members of Congress. And here's the good news. We 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:30.840 know that the Fourteenth Amendment, Section three, flat out says 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.919 if you were a part of the insurrection and you 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.639 had previously taken an oath of loyalty to the United States, 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:41.000 like you were a member of Congress, you are disqualified 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.320 from serving in public office. But the fourteenth Amendment doesn't 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:49.160 have any mechanism to implement that. It just says, as 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.400 a matter of fact, you are disqualified. Well, there is 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:57.480 there's something brewing where when the new Congress is about 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:02.000 to be sworn in, other members Congress can object to 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.640 the insurrectionists who are about to take the oath. Stay 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.400 tuned on that front, because that will take some brave 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.960 members of Congress. And I believe there's some stuff brewing, 0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:16.639 and announcements will be made whenever announcements are made if 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.800 it sort of ripens to that point. But first and 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:23.480 foremot that's a political population, right, But first and foremost, 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.960 if the evidence supports it, and I believe the evidence 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.639 probably does support criminally indicting some of these members of 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.640 Little Josh Hallie go in directionists go I got your back, 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.600 I'm with you, and then you see him running away 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:38.080 when the insurrectionists to make their way into the capital. 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:45.000 What a punk these people? Oh man, I just want 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:49.359 to go back to my Jersey roots. These people need 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.040 to be held accountable. And if whatever your follow up is, 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.159 let's do that, and then let's talk about how I 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.720 think Jack Smith may may take us. I mean, you 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.280 kind of answered part of it because it was going 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.040 to be about, you know, these members of Congress and 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.199 I can't remember. You will remember the member that was 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:12.320 in the bulletproof vest that happened to be under his uh, Mobrooks. 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:15.840 Mobrooks who was at the stop the Steel rally with 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:19.960 a bulletproof vest underneath his underneath his clothing. Why would 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.080 you need that? Right? No one else was in was 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:28.480 in bulletproof regalia. Right, So you must have had some 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:36.240 previous knowledge as to what could possibly be unfolding. The 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.560 other piece, Glenn, is that now that these people, these 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.879 other folks who have yet to who have yet to 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:47.000 sit for their trials, see that this charge was now, 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:53.520 see that this charge was upheld. Now do the hey 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:58.080 is now the pressure to say, Okay, maybe we don't 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:01.640 go after you for a seditious conspiracy, but you got 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.639 to give up who gave you the maps, who gave 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:10.480 you right the prior tour the day before, right to 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:13.800 give you the lay of the land. Because I tell you, 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.600 as somebody who worked on Capitol Hill, the way that 0:22:17.680 --> 0:22:21.480 those people found those unmarked offices. I worked on Capitol 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.080 Hill for years and couldn't find those would still have 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:28.680 to ask, you know, Capitol police, Oh you know, am 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.439 I going to this tunnel or this place or that? 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:35.000 And they knew to go direct So where did they 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.239 get that information from? Is that the root of the 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:43.760 route that we were going to see the Feds going after? Absolutely? 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.160 And when I said these guilty verdicts will inspire oathkeeper 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.719 boys to want to plead guilty and cooperate to reduce 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.439 their exposure, you know, I said that will sort of 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:57.600 directly I believe implicate guys like Flynn Stone and Alex Jones. 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:01.000 But I also think you're exactly right. These people have 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:05.120 information about members of Congress and what they did to 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.720 enable and assist and you know, so I think these 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:13.080 guilty verdicts up the anti on the members of Congress 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.399 as well. And you know, when you talk about the 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.359 Capitol Police, let me give a shout out to now 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:20.840 my friend Harry Dunn. You know, I worked with Mike 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.639 venone decades ago. We were working murder cases together when 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.719 he was in one d in the DC and I 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:31.240 was the chief a homicide. So I have known Mike 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.399 for a very long time. I've only come to know 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:37.439 Harry recently. And I was in the courtroom for his testimony, 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:41.600 and Danielle, first of all, yes, he is a human wall. 0:23:41.680 --> 0:23:46.040 Harry is enormous, right, And Harry testified, and there was 0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:51.359 video that captured this. Harry is standing there. Yep, I 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:54.520 get emotion. I get emotional. He's but one man. He's 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:59.000 blocking the stairwell that leads to the Speaker's office and 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:03.080 there are rioters and oathkeepers who and he said, y'all 0:24:03.080 --> 0:24:07.040 aren't getting by me. And he was one man who 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:11.000 held that line and four hit for it. They called 0:24:11.080 --> 0:24:15.200 him every name in the book that you know, and goodness, gracious, 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:19.600 there are heroic public servants that walk among us, like 0:24:19.760 --> 0:24:23.280 Harry Dunne. And you know, as much as we beat 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:25.440 up on police and we beat up on the Department 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:29.400 of Justice, goodness, when heroes do what Harry Dunn did 0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:33.080 and Mike Fenone and Aquilino Gonell and the rest of 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.960 those officers that day, my goodness, we need to thank 0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:38.640 them and we need to honor them, and we need 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:44.159 to remember that we have heroic public servants like Harry Dunn. Yeah, 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:46.399 thank you for that, Glenn, because it is it is 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:54.439 a very you know, needed reminder about who allowed for 0:24:55.720 --> 0:25:00.840 you know, true devastation not to come down on our capital, 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:03.960 on our democracy that day, because they put their lives 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:06.879 and their bodies on the line, and for that, I 0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:09.560 think all of us should be grateful. With a few 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:11.960 minutes that we have left, I do want to talk 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:16.920 about Jack Smith now and what you believe the Department 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:20.679 of Justice is doing right because I got to tell you, 0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.159 you know, I think I might have text you that 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:25.480 day when the announcement was made and I was just like, 0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:28.400 what the f is going on, you know, because this 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:33.160 feels like another another avenue and a flashback deja vu 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:36.679 to the Mala Report, which was well all about nothing, 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:40.080 you know at the end of the day. So what 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:44.200 do you think, because we hadn't had the opportunity to talk, 0:25:44.440 --> 0:25:47.840 what do you think about the Special Council, what do 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:50.240 you think about Jack Smith? And how do you think 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:55.240 that they're going to use, hopefully god willing, use these 0:25:55.440 --> 0:26:00.320 verdicts as a way to get to the architect head, 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:05.880 the snakehead that is Donald Trump. Yeah, so I'm with you, 0:26:05.960 --> 0:26:10.520 Danielle that we are suffering from hero fatigue. We thought 0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:13.000 Bob Muller was going to bring it home now. I 0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:15.639 think when you read volume two of the Trump, the 0:26:15.680 --> 0:26:19.760 Trump Russia Report, where he meticulously details as many as 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:23.879 ten felony obstruction of justice crimes by a man that 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:27.040 he was not permitted to indict because of that stupid 0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:32.960 assj policy saying you can't indict a sitting criminal president. 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.240 That is some banana republics yet right there, and I 0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:39.280 hope somebody revisits that Mueller could only do what he 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:42.240 could do, and of course he was blocked significantly by 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.680 Bill Barr and his lies about the Mueller Report. Then 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.720