WEBVTT - Which Winkler Is The Favorite?

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<v Speaker 1>You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a very special guest today. We're just running

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<v Speaker 1>down the whole family today. I have my younger baby brother,

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<v Speaker 1>Max Winkler, director, extraordinary, showrunner, producer, actor. No, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>an act Okay, dad, husband, dream human anything else.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you can keep going though. I like it.

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<v Speaker 1>An excellent friend.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, You're welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>You're a really good brother. Honestly, thank you, so thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for doing this with me today. My pleasure really happier here.

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<v Speaker 2>You're so happy to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm excited. This is going to be fun because we've

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<v Speaker 1>definitely had like an evolution of our relationship. Would you

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<v Speaker 1>say we were always deat We've always been close, but

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<v Speaker 1>how would you describe our relationship as kids and then

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<v Speaker 1>our relationship now.

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<v Speaker 2>It was contentious as kids at times, because I think

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<v Speaker 2>you feel like we had very different childhoods, where I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like we had pretty similar childhoods. I was just

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<v Speaker 2>the favorite, but everything else was the same, except I

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<v Speaker 2>was treated better.

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<v Speaker 1>This is actually true.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think it's probably true. And I have a

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<v Speaker 2>few core memories about it, Okay, should I share? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I remember you being locked in the mini van with

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<v Speaker 2>the windows cracked. Well, nanny, who I still love, who

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<v Speaker 2>shall not be named, who was I guess abusive made

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<v Speaker 2>you wait inside the car while we got to have McDonald's.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe we should just give a little background first of all,

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<v Speaker 1>before we just jump into horrifying memories of my childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>So what Max is saying is that we were three

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<v Speaker 1>years apart. Yes, he is August eighteenth, nineteen eighty three.

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<v Speaker 1>I am September thirtieth, nineteen eighty. We have an older

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<v Speaker 1>brother that's nine years older. So when we were in

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<v Speaker 1>when we were young, it was just us because Jeff

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<v Speaker 1>was at college he went to Georgetown and he was

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<v Speaker 1>so we had a nanny. I had a bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a weight issue. I was a little chubby and Max

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<v Speaker 1>was very skinny, and to this day is and I

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<v Speaker 1>think that this ties into sort of like the body

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<v Speaker 1>image situation that I will be discussing with mom. But basically,

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<v Speaker 1>we went we would go to get a snack after

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<v Speaker 1>school and sometimes it was McDonald's and Mom and dad

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<v Speaker 1>said I was no longer allowed to have McDonald's because

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<v Speaker 1>I had a bit of a weight issue, and apparently

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<v Speaker 1>my nanny thought it would be a great idea to

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<v Speaker 1>go to McDonald's because Max wanted it and leave me

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<v Speaker 1>in the car as he went in and got his

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<v Speaker 1>uh happy meal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was unfortunately. I think a lot of those

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<v Speaker 2>things played into your narrative that we had.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh it's a narrative, no, But I think for the

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<v Speaker 1>most so like a glaring example, yeah, okay, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>a narrative.

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<v Speaker 2>Go on, no, because I think that was probably light abuse.

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<v Speaker 2>Needless to say, I think our relationship is great. I

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<v Speaker 2>think it was complicated, probably because you thought I had

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<v Speaker 2>a very easy childhood, even though I clearly did not,

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<v Speaker 2>and was just internalizing those issues which would come out

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<v Speaker 2>in other ways and have you. I do remember some

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<v Speaker 2>core things about our childhood. I remember a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>fun that we had, me too. I remember playing games

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<v Speaker 2>with you in the back of the car, pretending, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>rating each house like a critic and saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I loved that, me too. I also remember going to

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<v Speaker 2>Jenny Craig after Hebrew School and waiting in the car

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<v Speaker 2>while you went to Jenny Craig. So it wasn't easy

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<v Speaker 2>for me either.

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<v Speaker 1>You're such a sick human, all right? Any other core memories.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember only loving you and thinking you were

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<v Speaker 2>very cool and learning a lot about my identity and

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<v Speaker 2>what I thought was cool through your boyfriends. And I

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<v Speaker 2>always thought you dated really really cool guys, and I

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<v Speaker 2>really thought your high schoolers now but I thought, no,

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<v Speaker 2>Brandon Weaver's cool. And I love Nick Bregman still to

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<v Speaker 2>this day. But I Brandon Weaver was your high school

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<v Speaker 2>boyfriend who I just thought was very very cool.

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<v Speaker 1>And actually ran into him as Sir Chow recently.

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<v Speaker 2>He's in real estate now right.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought he said he does like like like travel experiences,

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<v Speaker 1>but I honestly don't know. I had a few martinis.

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<v Speaker 1>It was hard for me to.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell I loved I remember you dated this guy named

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<v Speaker 2>Leo who I like went on vacation and like brought

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<v Speaker 2>him back something from South Carolina like ju Leo DaCosta. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought he was really cool. I think I was

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<v Speaker 2>like very looking for like sort of male role models

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<v Speaker 2>and found that in your boyfriend's ohyah, tell that story.

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<v Speaker 1>You took him to Las Vegas for your twenty first birthday.

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<v Speaker 1>He was my boyfriend of three years and he cheated

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<v Speaker 1>on me there, yes, with my father and my brother.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he also brought two friends to Las Vegas

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<v Speaker 2>like that we paid for I remember being like, this

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<v Speaker 2>feels strange that we're taking friends of this guy to

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<v Speaker 2>Vegas and I wasn't aware that he was cheating on you.

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<v Speaker 2>I was aware that he was securing the cocaine.

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<v Speaker 1>Though.

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<v Speaker 2>It was my twenty first birthday. We were all on

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<v Speaker 2>drugs and I ended up getting married that night.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, great, Yeah, who did you marry that night? Again? Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>Her, she's a photographer. Now, she actually does very well.

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<v Speaker 2>She is I think, a very complicated, controversial woman who

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<v Speaker 2>was incredibly beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>That was that is your That was your that was

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<v Speaker 1>your go to. Really pretty mentally ill. Yeah, controversial, that

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<v Speaker 1>was your go to. Remember you brought someone to Jed's

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<v Speaker 1>wedding and she spoke to cats the entire time on

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<v Speaker 1>the island.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there were a lot of cats on the island, there.

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<v Speaker 1>Were She would just talk to cats. At our older

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<v Speaker 1>brother's wedding, Max brought a girlfriend.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she was his girlfriend. I still talk to her.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You have a very interesting relationship past, Yeah, you

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<v Speaker 1>sure do.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>It was very different than mine. Mine was very just

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<v Speaker 1>like run of the mill. You know yours was very.

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<v Speaker 2>Run of the mill. Was it run of the mill?

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<v Speaker 1>You don't think so.

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<v Speaker 2>I would never call it run of the mill.

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<v Speaker 1>These memories are such great memories and also make me

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<v Speaker 1>so grateful to be married to Rob.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm grateful for Rob too.

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<v Speaker 1>We all are. If you could describe me in three words,

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<v Speaker 1>then I'll do this for you. What would you? What

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<v Speaker 1>would you? What would be three words to describe me?

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<v Speaker 2>Sensitive?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Supportive yes?

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<v Speaker 2>And sensitive?

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<v Speaker 1>I am very sensitive.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I would say loyal. You're extremely loyal. You're extremely sensitive, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and you are very empathetic.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are very true, Okay. Yours would be extremely driven,

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<v Speaker 1>a really hard worker. Yeah, and maybe driven. Uh what's the.

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<v Speaker 2>Word when you're very like regimented?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes? No, not regimented, Like you're very consistent, disciplined, consistent

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<v Speaker 1>and like an extremely hard worker. And you are an

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<v Speaker 1>amazing listener.

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<v Speaker 2>Really yeah, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>You could be doing many things at once, but you

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<v Speaker 1>are always there. If I ever call you and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>having a hard time, which is often, you always pick

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<v Speaker 1>up the phone and you listen to me.

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<v Speaker 2>What is that face I'm just thinking about?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm listening Okay, do you not agree with those things I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think I do. I'm not a very good judge of myself.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. I'm not. I don't think I see myself

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<v Speaker 2>the way that other people do.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, that's one thing I really admire about you

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<v Speaker 1>is that you are a very very very disciplined, hard

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<v Speaker 1>working human being. You work more than anyone I've ever met.

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<v Speaker 2>I really like it, and you're good at it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it makes me happy.

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<v Speaker 1>You're really good at it. Yeah, and which is great

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<v Speaker 1>because I had no idea what you were going to do. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm really I'm impressed.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>And you've made like a whole life for yourself. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>which is so I mean, you are, you know, forty one. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but to me, you're still my baby brother, and so

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<v Speaker 1>it's crazy to see you. You know now everyone asks

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<v Speaker 1>me if i'm your sister, which is such a beautiful thing,

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<v Speaker 1>very beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 1>You're so welcome. Could you talk to me a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about what drew you to this career path, like

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<v Speaker 1>what did you did? You did you because it was

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<v Speaker 1>always wanted to do it?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was very I wasn't good at very many things.

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<v Speaker 2>I had really bad learning disabilities, had really bad add

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<v Speaker 2>from a young age. I found reading it's extremely difficult.

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<v Speaker 2>I found math extremely hard. I always had tutors. I

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<v Speaker 2>always had a hard time and got in trouble in

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<v Speaker 2>school because I just wanted to make people laugh or

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to walk around in the middle of a class.

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<v Speaker 2>And I remember at an early age trying to like

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<v Speaker 2>I was also incredibly convincing of my teachers to not like.

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<v Speaker 2>I went to a school that was very progressive and

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<v Speaker 2>I could ask for instead of writing an essay, can

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<v Speaker 2>I make a movie instead? And it was just easier

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<v Speaker 2>for me. And I loved the collaboration of it. I

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<v Speaker 2>loved visiting Dad on the few film sets that were

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<v Speaker 2>happening during the majority of my life that we weren't

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<v Speaker 2>movies of the week in Vancouver, and I loved I

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<v Speaker 2>loved like the circus element of it. And because I

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<v Speaker 2>have such bad add it's way easier for me to

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<v Speaker 2>be in my job than it is for me to

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<v Speaker 2>be in like a quiet room or in any form

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<v Speaker 2>of real life. But now I get to like show

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<v Speaker 2>my kid that and she gets to come and visit

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<v Speaker 2>me at work because this job I'm doing right now

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<v Speaker 2>is so close to her school, and it like, I

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<v Speaker 2>see because she clearly has my add I can see

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<v Speaker 2>the fun she has for all the different departments and

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<v Speaker 2>fun aspects of a set that I remember being like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this feels fun to me.

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<v Speaker 1>You have a three year old who is who you're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about, and then you maybe on the way that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>another girl, that's right. I'm so excited. And I got

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<v Speaker 1>to be in the room when Frankie was born.

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<v Speaker 2>You were unbelievable, I will say, like for all of

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<v Speaker 2>the parts that can be challenging of being in your

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<v Speaker 2>challenging the sensitivity, the unapproachability when you give a note about.

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<v Speaker 1>Something extremely approachable.

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<v Speaker 2>When if I'm trying to give you in the moment

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<v Speaker 2>of wanting to give a slight adjustment, I find you impenetrate, impenetrable. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but what and then you do this thing when you're

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<v Speaker 2>in a fight, like babe, so you seem really cranky

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<v Speaker 2>and tired, and it becomes a gaslighting and it creates

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<v Speaker 2>a desire to perform violence on you, which almost happens.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, we many times. But but I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>just talk what would be like a note that you

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<v Speaker 1>would give me that I would not be able to hear.

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<v Speaker 2>Stop trying to control other people places or things.

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<v Speaker 1>I am very open to that.

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<v Speaker 2>Not in the moment. In the moment, it's who's wrong you?

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<v Speaker 2>Why haven't Why won't they who's wrong?

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<v Speaker 1>Why?

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<v Speaker 2>I wan't exactly, why won't they change? It's always like this, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And for me, I'm like, your time would be so

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<v Speaker 2>much better spent worrying about the things that you can

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<v Speaker 2>control what you're doing now by having this podcast, which

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so happy about.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Thank you so much. Something about you that

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<v Speaker 1>bothers me is that you talk like a therapy like

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<v Speaker 1>you talk to me like I'm like one of your clients,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're not a therapist. No.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it drives my wife crazy, and I'm sure some

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<v Speaker 2>of my friends. And it's so annoying because I hate

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<v Speaker 2>when people do because I've been to so much therapy

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<v Speaker 2>and I finally feel like I know nothing that I

0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.400
<v Speaker 2>least know, like ways to not make myself go more insane,

0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:18.040
<v Speaker 2>which is like expectations of people that are never going

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to change, like wanting them to come and pick me

0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.240
<v Speaker 2>up from baseball practice, and like I've accepted that they're.

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:25.839
<v Speaker 1>Not coming back baseball practice.

0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 2>The housekeepers always did.

0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.640
<v Speaker 1>First of all, they weren't housekeepers, they were nanny's. And

0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.960
<v Speaker 1>second of all, like that is your big complaints.

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:32.720
<v Speaker 2>No, it's an example.

0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.760
<v Speaker 1>I was locked in a car. Well, you went and

0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 1>ate French fries in my face. You had like your

0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:37.840
<v Speaker 1>nanny big you up.

0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.280
<v Speaker 2>You had a consumption problem.

0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 1>Wait, I just I want to talk about two things,

0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:44.920
<v Speaker 1>and I don't want to forget them. So the first

0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:46.559
<v Speaker 1>thing is, I want to tell the story about when

0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.560
<v Speaker 1>mom went with you to therapy when you were young,

0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and the story that you did with doctor Dan Siegel.

0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.079
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't Dan Siegel, it was another one who was

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:57.240
<v Speaker 2>a guy named doctor Ross. Dad was away doing a

0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 2>play in New York. Yeah, Mom, I was acting out again,

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and my mother felt like I needed a mail presence

0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.560
<v Speaker 2>in my life, okay, And I went to this guy

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:12.280
<v Speaker 2>and I was so pissed off that I had to

0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.800
<v Speaker 2>have yet another therapist and another after school activity to

0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like keep me off the streets.

0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:19.840
<v Speaker 1>You're such a nightmare and.

0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 2>From like drinking and smoking and being like just totally missed,

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 2>like an idiot. And so my mom sat with me

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:29.920
<v Speaker 2>and told him and I said, you know, the thing

0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:31.800
<v Speaker 2>that I want to work on in therapy is when

0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:36.680
<v Speaker 2>my mother continuously comes into my room without her clothes

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.760
<v Speaker 2>on while I'm sleeping in the night and claps around

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.720
<v Speaker 2>the house like a whirling turfish like, and my mom

0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:48.679
<v Speaker 2>started laughing, and the doctor was like really concerned and

0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.080
<v Speaker 2>was like, Stacy, that was a lie are me? It

0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.040
<v Speaker 2>was total alive. I was just trying to not have

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:54.680
<v Speaker 2>to come back.

0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.839
<v Speaker 1>I think that that's the funniest story. Something I was

0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.920
<v Speaker 1>thinking about. Like, we've talked about ways were different, but

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.720
<v Speaker 1>are there ways that we're similar? Do you think?

0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you can't think of what.

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 1>You can't think of one way that we're similar. You're

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>sensitive too.

0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm very sensitive in a different way.

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:16.240
<v Speaker 1>You act out in a different way like you act out.

0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Your sensitivity is in a different way. But you're very sensitive.

0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Too, very sensitive. I think we think the same things

0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:22.360
<v Speaker 2>are funny.

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:22.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I think we both have our mother's sense of humor.

0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.240
<v Speaker 1>We make each other laugh very very much.

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, a wicked sense of humor that involves like people

0:14:31.840 --> 0:14:33.280
<v Speaker 2>tripping and falling and stuff.

0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:34.400
<v Speaker 1>Nothing could be better than that.

0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I think we're similar in a lot of ways that

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm just unable to pinpoint right now. Do you think

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:39.000
<v Speaker 2>we're similar?

0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:41.880
<v Speaker 1>I think we're both. I mean we when we're together,

0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 1>we laugh in a way that is uncontrolled, especially on

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 1>family vacations. We have the same sense of humor. Usually

0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.720
<v Speaker 1>it's at my expense. You're tripping me or tackling me

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 1>to the ground.

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:58.720
<v Speaker 2>You're very good, like you really like are able.

0:14:58.480 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>To laugh at myself.

0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's such a good quality.

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, except when I'm impenetrable.

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okaycept then and.

0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Then I was just thinking when we were growing up,

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.080
<v Speaker 1>this is a question that somebody asked me, who got

0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>in trouble more? That's like a no brainer because you

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 1>did horrible things and never got in trouble.

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.800
<v Speaker 2>To be fair, I was grounded like a significant part

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 2>of my high school, so was I.

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.920
<v Speaker 1>But like, you never really got, like in trouble.

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.440
<v Speaker 2>When I got drunk at school and threw up in

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 2>our class.

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, so Max started a brand new school where

0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>my children actually go now and his first month at school, yeah,

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 1>he went off campus with older kids, got drunk in

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>ninth grade and then vomited in his Was it art

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.840
<v Speaker 1>history or something? Just regular art, just regular art, vomited

0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.120
<v Speaker 1>in his art class. And I was a freshman in

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:51.280
<v Speaker 1>college at Wisconsin and I got the phone call and

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>you were grounded for I mean months at that point.

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Mom was so upset.

0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. That and when I joined a pyramid scheme called

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 2>except and turned over. You used our grandparents to turn

0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.280
<v Speaker 2>over their phone lines to this like food gazy phone

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>line thing. And Mom told me she was going to

0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 2>put me in jail.

0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 1>Dad told me he was gonna put me in jail

0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>once too. I was going to be arrested for grand larceny.

0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 1>So we both were both still here high five. High

0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.680
<v Speaker 1>five never been to jail. Neither of us have been

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.360
<v Speaker 1>to jail. That's a really that's a positive.

0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay.

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.520
<v Speaker 1>And then I'm trying to think, like, what's something that

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 1>we've learned about from each other as adults that we

0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't really see as kids. I think I always thought

0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 1>of you as my younger brother, and I don't know

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.520
<v Speaker 1>that like I had like a lot of like respect

0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 1>for you when you were younger, but now I have

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.560
<v Speaker 1>so much respect for you. And yeah, I respect your opinion.

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 1>You're one of like my first calls.

0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Why do you think that is?

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Because I think you're really smart, and I think that

0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 1>you are. You have an ability to see the bigger picture.

0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>At times you're talking like a therapist and it's so annoying, Like,

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.840
<v Speaker 1>just talk like a regular person. Okay, you're not a therapist,

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.840
<v Speaker 1>ok Okay, So I just find that to be like,

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.080
<v Speaker 1>I really do trust what you have to say and

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 1>your opinion and your means a lot to me.

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.280
<v Speaker 2>That's really nice to hear. Thanks, thank you so much.

0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Would I've learned.

0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:23.440
<v Speaker 2>I really think you're an incredible parent. I've asked you

0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.480
<v Speaker 2>many many questions about parenting in the three years that

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Frankie has been on this world, and I just I

0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.520
<v Speaker 2>find you. I think you're also very good. Actually, don't.

0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I think we're wrong. I think you've been wrong about

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 2>some people that you've thought are not good people.

0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>No, I'm right. No, I know the person you're thinking.

0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.439
<v Speaker 2>Of, he's not You're wrong, Okay, I'm telling you.

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, I think he's a jerk, but I know

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:49.959
<v Speaker 1>he's okay, great. I mean I don't think about him

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>every day, but I.

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Just he's good, great and would do anything to make

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:57.720
<v Speaker 2>you happy. We're not friends, but even though we would

0:17:57.760 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 2>still do anything to make you happy moving on, and

0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:01.920
<v Speaker 2>a couple of other people that you hold regis. I

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 2>can't think of them, but I think you're not always right,

0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:05.840
<v Speaker 2>But for the most part, you're very right about it.

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 1>I think I am. Yeah, I think I'm very, very,

0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.360
<v Speaker 1>very like spot on. I think I can always completely

0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.600
<v Speaker 1>tell when someone is full of shit or not. You

0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.800
<v Speaker 1>are insanely regimented about what you eat.

0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:22.159
<v Speaker 2>I exercising that I want that does give me a

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:23.840
<v Speaker 2>sign infection. Never not.

0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 1>You're very, very careful. You would take bread off, you

0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:27.240
<v Speaker 1>would like.

0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Because I was allergic to gluten for a period of time.

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.840
<v Speaker 1>No, but you're just you're very You're very You're obsessed

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>with working out.

0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 2>From my mental state, not because I want to be

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.480
<v Speaker 2>like a buff forty one year old, Like I don't

0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.440
<v Speaker 2>think it's cool to be buff. I have to work

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.119
<v Speaker 2>out because I'm crazy. When I wake up in the morning,

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.000
<v Speaker 2>my brain is crazy. So I have to like meditate

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:49.600
<v Speaker 2>and work out and like do the things that requires

0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.719
<v Speaker 2>me to like just get through the door and like

0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:52.320
<v Speaker 2>be normal.

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.040
<v Speaker 1>If you could, if we could describe our sibling relationship

0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 1>in three words, how would you describe it?

0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Close? Yeah, dependable, yeah, and the complicated yeah, I agree.

0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 1>And then I was thinking, like something that you are

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.520
<v Speaker 1>really good at that I'm not good at is you

0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 1>don't you you don't like you? Can you can handle

0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.480
<v Speaker 1>if someone doesn't like you, it doesn't ruin your day,

0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:30.960
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't.

0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't care anymore. Yeah, I think, yeah.

0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:35.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm not good at that. Like if I have like

0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.399
<v Speaker 1>an if I have a problem with somebody in my

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>life or someone doesn't like me, or a friend gets

0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 1>upset with me or something I mean which you know,

0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 1>or I get in a car like a thing with

0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.959
<v Speaker 1>a sibling or mom or dad or whatever it consumes me.

0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:51.159
<v Speaker 2>It seems to ravage you like a rebel force. The

0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.359
<v Speaker 2>thing you do to me that is so frustrating because

0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty comfortable with who I am.

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh I literally was just saying something I might admire

0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:58.359
<v Speaker 1>about you.

0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.280
<v Speaker 2>But let's talk nobody. I'm going to tell you because

0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I know who I am, and you telling me to

0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 2>be somebody else to people and be like say hi

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.680
<v Speaker 2>to this person, like be nice to them, like because.

0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 1>Max, you you have a personality disorder there. That's funny

0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 1>times that you don't say hello to somebody.

0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 2>But the people who know me know that that's who

0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I am, and know that I'm trying my best.

0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 1>But I want and like I give you.

0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.800
<v Speaker 2>That annoys me more than feeling neediness out of someone

0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.720
<v Speaker 2>or feeling you're feeling neediness out of you to be

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 2>like say hi to this person. I think you don't

0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 2>like me. It makes me shut down.

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 1>That's not being needy. That's like giving you, by the way,

0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:36.960
<v Speaker 1>that is giving you a note.

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.040
<v Speaker 2>But I'm you should take. I'm not uncomfortable. I'm whatever

0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I am. I'm me and like sometimes like pleasantries in

0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:48.480
<v Speaker 2>your kitchen with like people that you're in my exactly,

0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 2>but I'm me, And like if those people ask me

0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:52.800
<v Speaker 2>to help them or do something, I would help them,

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:54.200
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't need to say hi to them.

0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.600
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, no no. That's where you're wrong. You say

0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.920
<v Speaker 1>hello to everybody. That's like how life works, that you're

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.359
<v Speaker 1>a human being on this earth, and if you walk

0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:03.679
<v Speaker 1>into someone's home, you say hello to other people that

0:21:03.680 --> 0:21:04.119
<v Speaker 1>are standing.

0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.800
<v Speaker 2>But if I, first of all, I don't agree. Second

0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.120
<v Speaker 2>of all, I need.

0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Second, we need a we need a howard like a poll.

0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:15.679
<v Speaker 1>Do you or do you not think it's important to

0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:16.800
<v Speaker 1>acknowledge a human being?

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 2>I do but what is my acknowledgment is different from yours.

0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.639
<v Speaker 2>So sometimes like just a hand on the back and

0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:23.720
<v Speaker 2>say like how are you?

0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Man?

0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Is how I say hi to somebody, and then I

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.840
<v Speaker 2>prove my worth as a good friend or good brothers

0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:33.240
<v Speaker 2>you've described through time and like I just don't want

0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to make small talk with like certain people.

0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, cool, I think and tell me to.

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.679
<v Speaker 2>Do like perform more like I'm some kind of like

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.320
<v Speaker 2>a trick animal no repel.

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Fare, minimum of a human decency is not an animal.

0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:51.560
<v Speaker 2>It is just literally me as as as a good

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 2>brother you are to me and a good friend you.

0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Are to people that are in your life, in your circle,

0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:03.080
<v Speaker 1>but you sometimes have a hard time like in social situations.

0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:05.600
<v Speaker 2>But because it just takes me a minute, okay, so

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.840
<v Speaker 2>just like allow that to happen. Like look at my

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.640
<v Speaker 2>relationship with your friend Simone. My relationship with your friend

0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Simone was so awkward and strange because she's probably a

0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:16.280
<v Speaker 2>little like me and we would just like not be

0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:17.879
<v Speaker 2>nice to each other. And now we're friends.

0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I love that for you guys, and.

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:21.960
<v Speaker 2>It just took us what it took.

0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well I'll thank you. I will definitely take note

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:28.399
<v Speaker 1>of that.

0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.359
<v Speaker 2>My relationship with Rob, Yeah, it's better than it's ever been.

0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you guys are close.

0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's my brother in law. I love him.

0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:38.200
<v Speaker 1>He's the best.

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, But like I still don't one hundred percent

0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.920
<v Speaker 1>understand because I feel like sometimes I don't know that

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:49.959
<v Speaker 1>you're aware that you come off extremely rude and dismissive,

0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 1>and so I'm trying to I do.

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I am aware. I don't care as the thing, but.

0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.280
<v Speaker 1>How could you not care? Like I don't understand that.

0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.400
<v Speaker 1>How could you not care if you're making somebody else

0:22:59.440 --> 0:22:59.920
<v Speaker 1>feel bad?

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Because I know I'm not rude and dismissive.

0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.280
<v Speaker 1>But if you're making somebody else feel that way, how

0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.400
<v Speaker 1>could you? In Like this is when I like literally

0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:10.840
<v Speaker 1>think we're separated at birth in by like no, well,

0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>I guess separated birth. We're so similar. I don't know

0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:16.800
<v Speaker 1>we're so different because like, if I have hurt someone,

0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:22.040
<v Speaker 1>I want to die And why are you doing that?

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:24.360
<v Speaker 1>What did you do that?

0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Why not?

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Moving forward? I think maybe you're on the spectrum.

0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I know that I am so like, stop trying to

0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:42.120
<v Speaker 2>make me into like mister, like I'm a brother, what's

0:23:42.200 --> 0:23:42.640
<v Speaker 2>going on?

0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:42.879
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:23:43.000 --> 0:23:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Cool? Hat like I don't care. Okay, I love your kids,

0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.399
<v Speaker 2>I love your family. Okay, great, So you love Lois

0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:56.320
<v Speaker 2>Rhiness Okay, okay, great, she's regimented like me.

0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:57.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah she is. So it's Hillary.

0:23:58.080 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love Hillary. Hillary is some when I've had

0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:02.520
<v Speaker 2>a roller coaster of a relationship with. Now we sit

0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:05.359
<v Speaker 2>in the sauna, we catch up, we talk about things. Great,

0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll just let you be you try it and don't

0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.200
<v Speaker 2>take it on. And if somebody's annoyed with me, it's

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.440
<v Speaker 2>not about you. It's fine. Let them learn the real

0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:20.639
<v Speaker 2>me through multiple interactions where I finally warm up and

0:24:20.680 --> 0:24:22.399
<v Speaker 2>I can look them in the eye and say hello

0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:23.240
<v Speaker 2>in a normal way.

0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, just take me a second. I thank you so much.

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm I don't want to be an asshole. Same wrestler

0:24:30.880 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 2>has this experience with me too, and like.

0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 1>Sam Wrestler and I are similar in some ways very yeah,

0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:39.800
<v Speaker 1>so we both But do you think that, like at

0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 1>any point are you like, Wow, this is gonna make

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.959
<v Speaker 1>my sister or Sam, who's your one of your very

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:47.199
<v Speaker 1>best friends, feel uncomfortable. So I'll just like do something

0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:49.439
<v Speaker 1>out of my own comfort zone for that.

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I do just by saying hello, even in the most

0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:52.560
<v Speaker 2>of it.

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Saying hello to somebody that is out of your comfort zone.

0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.679
<v Speaker 1>You are a sick human being.

0:24:57.800 --> 0:24:59.960
<v Speaker 2>But guess who married Sam Guess who she chose to marry.

0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Marry her when she married Jason Borg. You so clearly

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:07.280
<v Speaker 2>saying not being nice to her ex boyfriend who laughed

0:25:07.640 --> 0:25:11.359
<v Speaker 2>so loud that I couldn't even begin to describe it

0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:12.439
<v Speaker 2>is not a big issue.

0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:16.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well you know what, Max, I'm gonna try it out.

0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna be one you matter, I really say hello

0:25:19.080 --> 0:25:22.719
<v Speaker 2>to Okay, I say hello. I say hello to the

0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:23.680
<v Speaker 2>ones who matter.

0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 1>That yat take that. That is that is the that

0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.720
<v Speaker 1>is the little SoundBite of this. I can't.

0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Let's get into it, like, let's talk about real stuff.

0:25:32.080 --> 0:25:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Are you seeing a therapist right now?

0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:33.879
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Who is it?

0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 2>A great one named doctor Emily Cavell who's really helped me?

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh right right, my first therapist who's incredibly not my.

0:25:42.400 --> 0:25:44.600
<v Speaker 1>First therapist any talking about studs.

0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:47.760
<v Speaker 2>Thirty if no pri stuts was a doc named lou Katzman.

0:25:47.880 --> 0:25:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Where is he?

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:50.200
<v Speaker 2>He changed my life? It's a she and she's dead.

0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Shame on you. And she was one of the most

0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 2>important people to me of all time m hm. And

0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:00.239
<v Speaker 2>she passed. And then I saw Phil Stutts, who I

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:02.160
<v Speaker 2>love and I still call when I'm in a GM

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:03.919
<v Speaker 2>about stuff. And I have all my note cards and

0:26:03.960 --> 0:26:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I bring my note cards with me everywhere.

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.360
<v Speaker 1>You sent me to like one of Stutts's proteges ones

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:11.000
<v Speaker 1>to go well, No, it was the craziest experience I've

0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:13.159
<v Speaker 1>ever had. That's what she was, drying mountains on a

0:26:13.160 --> 0:26:15.360
<v Speaker 1>piece of paper. Yes, that is a tool, right.

0:26:16.040 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Stut's saved my life and really worked for me and

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:20.840
<v Speaker 2>was one of the greatest gifts that one of my

0:26:20.880 --> 0:26:25.879
<v Speaker 2>best friends sent me there. And I see now another

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:29.200
<v Speaker 2>kind of more day to day therapist. I am to

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:31.919
<v Speaker 2>see her in case you forgot doctor Cavell. You didn't see.

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.119
<v Speaker 1>I absolutely saw her when my doctor was sick. Oh yeah,

0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 1>and I was referred to her.

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:39.840
<v Speaker 2>I love her. She's very helpful to me and like

0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:43.600
<v Speaker 2>very empathetic and really actually cried when I told her

0:26:43.600 --> 0:26:45.520
<v Speaker 2>about my dog dying. This is where we need to

0:26:45.560 --> 0:26:50.160
<v Speaker 2>get to. Yeah, this is how it happens. This is real.

0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:53.280
<v Speaker 2>We're getting real right now. You think I get special privileges,

0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:56.800
<v Speaker 2>You think everything I do is whatever you because I'm

0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 2>easy because I'm a delight because I say hello to

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 2>the people I love.

0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:02.520
<v Speaker 1>I am easy, I am a delay.

0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 2>You're not easy. You are many things, but you're not easy.

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh, you want to talk about favoritism, Dad's going to

0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:13.640
<v Speaker 1>come in here? Great, Like, who cares Dad's gonna come

0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 1>when we talk about favoritism, because we.

0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Did talk about that about so Hamlet, your lack of

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.680
<v Speaker 2>empathy for Hamlet was because Hamlet represents I.

0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Do have a hard time sometimes with Rob tells me

0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:26.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm not empathetic to him as well. There are certain

0:27:26.800 --> 0:27:29.360
<v Speaker 1>I think people that I feel the safest with. Sometimes

0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:31.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, like I have like a block sometimes

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>of empathy.

0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:35.200
<v Speaker 2>But you believe, what we're not talking about with Hamlet

0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 2>was that mother put her obsession with me onto the dog.

0:27:39.800 --> 0:27:41.960
<v Speaker 1>There is a difference, if we're going to be honest,

0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:44.120
<v Speaker 1>there was a huge difference in the way that we

0:27:44.119 --> 0:27:49.760
<v Speaker 1>were treated. Granted, we both had beautiful, wonderful, amazing childhoods.

0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 1>We are so fucking lucky beyond, but there was a

0:27:53.400 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 1>huge difference. You could it was never the same, Like

0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:57.879
<v Speaker 1>you could do something and I could do something, and

0:27:57.920 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I would get in trouble for it, and you wouldn't.

0:28:00.400 --> 0:28:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Mom like you hates feeling needy. Unfortunately, children sometimes are

0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:09.639
<v Speaker 1>a little needy. You for some reason, didn't trigger that

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.439
<v Speaker 1>in her, So it was a much easier relationship. It

0:28:13.520 --> 0:28:15.000
<v Speaker 1>was very difficult for any.

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Others, and daughters is a complicated thing.

0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.000
<v Speaker 1>I think that that's bullshit. Actually really yeah, And I

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 1>don't think that that's I think that it depends. I

0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:25.000
<v Speaker 1>think like people are like, oh, well, mothers and you know,

0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 1>mothers and sons and daughter. I think that that's bullshit.

0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:31.879
<v Speaker 2>What if I was just cuter and funnier, Like what if?

0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Like what if I don't know. I look at pictures

0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:36.320
<v Speaker 2>of you, and I'm like, she was so cute and

0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:38.560
<v Speaker 2>sweet and funny and nurturing, and she wanted to be

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 2>a teacher. She helped the stewardesses like ye about coke.

0:28:42.640 --> 0:28:45.360
<v Speaker 2>But like, maybe I was that cute and funny.

0:28:45.680 --> 0:28:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I have three kids, and I have one of

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:52.080
<v Speaker 1>my children who's definitely like a little bit more trying

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 1>in many ways, and it takes.

0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 2>A lot more out of me. Do you have a favorite?

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:01.320
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't. I love them each for so many

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.480
<v Speaker 1>of the same reasons and so many different reasons, and

0:29:03.520 --> 0:29:04.640
<v Speaker 1>I find and you will see this.

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 2>When you came and liking my next child, I.

0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Thought the same thing, and then it's like, I don't

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 1>when I started having when after I had Ace and

0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:16.960
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna have Jewels and Gus. Actually, when the

0:29:17.000 --> 0:29:19.400
<v Speaker 1>director at the preschool that I worked at forever told

0:29:19.440 --> 0:29:21.920
<v Speaker 1>me how to explain it, and she was like, it's

0:29:21.960 --> 0:29:24.480
<v Speaker 1>not that you're hurt, you know. It's not that you

0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:26.520
<v Speaker 1>have to split time. It's not that you have to

0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>split your heart in half. Your heart just gets bigger.

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.120
<v Speaker 1>And it's so true. It's like lighting a candle. One

0:29:32.200 --> 0:29:35.520
<v Speaker 1>candle lights all the other candles, you know, like it's interesting.

0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Because I actually was very concerned that I would not

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 2>like Frankie as much as I liked Hamlet. And the

0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:44.880
<v Speaker 2>day just went into labor, I was crying, sobbing in

0:29:44.920 --> 0:29:48.280
<v Speaker 2>the car going to have dinner with Margaret White Spin

0:29:48.320 --> 0:29:51.800
<v Speaker 2>and armand whitespin about that change, and I ended up

0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:55.080
<v Speaker 2>the next day she was born. I never a Hamlet,

0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>never slept in our house again, and I moved on

0:29:56.840 --> 0:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>very quickly.

0:29:57.240 --> 0:29:59.520
<v Speaker 1>But you were really sad when Hamlet died, even though

0:29:59.520 --> 0:30:00.960
<v Speaker 1>he never in your house again.

0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:04.680
<v Speaker 2>And heartbroken. Yeah, so I'm.

0:30:04.520 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Sure that I'm happy him was stead.

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:11.040
<v Speaker 2>It's made my life a lot more complicated. Frankie still

0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:12.720
<v Speaker 2>believes that he's on a farm and that she's going

0:30:12.800 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 2>to go see him hard, but it has made my

0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:18.680
<v Speaker 2>life like there is not I wouldn't say. I would say, like,

0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:22.040
<v Speaker 2>there's not that same experience of a loaded gun being

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 2>in the house that there used to be, right even.

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Though, but by the way, I think that you as

0:30:33.200 --> 0:30:36.040
<v Speaker 1>a parent have to make all of your children feel

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:43.800
<v Speaker 1>equally respected and equally valued, and sometimes your needs outweighed

0:30:44.160 --> 0:30:46.360
<v Speaker 1>the needs of the other people in the home.

0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:48.120
<v Speaker 2>Is it possible that I had less needs?

0:30:48.960 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>No, you have a tremendous amount of needs. Really, max, If.

0:30:53.440 --> 0:31:04.480
<v Speaker 2>You really, I get go on, so, like, what are

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 2>my needs?

0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 1>You just like it's like if you want to take

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 1>a bath in mom's bath.

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:11.760
<v Speaker 2>All I want to do is all I want to

0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:14.080
<v Speaker 2>do is take a bath in my mom's bath and

0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:16.200
<v Speaker 2>work out in the morning. Is that too much to add?

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:18.640
<v Speaker 2>That's what I want. I would live in this house

0:31:18.680 --> 0:31:20.360
<v Speaker 2>if I could. If we were in Italy, I would

0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:22.760
<v Speaker 2>live If we were Italians, I would live in this house.

0:31:22.960 --> 0:31:26.240
<v Speaker 2>I would bring a little more room for the first

0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:28.240
<v Speaker 2>of my life. I'm kind of thinking like maybe I

0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:30.680
<v Speaker 2>don't want to be here anymore. But up until a

0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:33.480
<v Speaker 2>year ago, I would have happily you did house like you.

0:31:33.440 --> 0:31:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Did live here because you were filming and you rented

0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:37.080
<v Speaker 1>out your house and you did it.

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:39.080
<v Speaker 2>But we were only here for little spurts at a

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 2>time because we were in New York for the whole year.

0:31:41.160 --> 0:31:43.800
<v Speaker 2>But I would still live in this house if I could,

0:31:44.040 --> 0:31:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I know, and very very never, I've never taken a

0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:51.960
<v Speaker 2>bath as good as the bath in mom's bathtub, the

0:31:52.000 --> 0:31:55.240
<v Speaker 2>way she washes my hair. It's here's what I love

0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:58.080
<v Speaker 2>a bath. I love a couple of things. I love

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.120
<v Speaker 2>that there's a television there. I love the depth of it.

0:32:01.160 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 2>I love that I know how to use the machine

0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:05.720
<v Speaker 2>perfectly and get it just the right scalding.

0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:06.680
<v Speaker 1>Tempchine the bath.

0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:09.160
<v Speaker 2>I like to get into a bath so hot that

0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 2>I can only get in a tiny bit at a time.

0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't like to constantly refill it. Okay, I like

0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:15.680
<v Speaker 2>to watch sports in the bath.

0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. And this feels like really important

0:32:19.000 --> 0:32:20.240
<v Speaker 1>information to have. I'm so great.

0:32:20.400 --> 0:32:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I like to wear her robes.

0:32:23.560 --> 0:32:24.800
<v Speaker 1>You do you wear her robes?

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:28.680
<v Speaker 2>I will tell you a secret. I slept here recently

0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:33.280
<v Speaker 2>when Mom wasn't feeling well. Yeah, and I did not

0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 2>have It was very cold in the house, yeah, because

0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:41.200
<v Speaker 2>mother likes it arctic arctic chill, because she's an Arctic fox.

0:32:42.560 --> 0:32:44.760
<v Speaker 2>And I couldn't find something asleep, and I don't have

0:32:44.840 --> 0:32:48.240
<v Speaker 2>clothes here, and so I slept in one of mother's

0:32:48.480 --> 0:32:49.360
<v Speaker 2>night shirts.

0:32:50.280 --> 0:32:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Swear to god, did you doctor doctor Emilikavell about it?

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:55.840
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think it's weird. I felt so. First

0:32:55.880 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 2>of all, men slept in night shirts all the time

0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:01.800
<v Speaker 2>in the Middle Age so they could use their bed.

0:33:01.840 --> 0:33:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so now we understand you're also a historian.

0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.520
<v Speaker 2>And I slept in a Yes, that's my that's my soliloquy,

0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 2>that history.

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Historian, dog trainer, therapist.

0:33:11.080 --> 0:33:15.040
<v Speaker 2>And I continuer, Yeah, and it was one of the

0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:16.040
<v Speaker 2>best sleeps of my life.

0:33:16.080 --> 0:33:17.719
<v Speaker 1>Could get some. Mom gets them from London.

0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:19.040
<v Speaker 2>I've never been able to.

0:33:19.160 --> 0:33:20.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure she'll give you them, moll.

0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't even wear underwear. It's very uncomfortable.

0:33:22.240 --> 0:33:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, thank you.

0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:26.080
<v Speaker 2>And so I was sleeping in this night sure was perfect.

0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, thank you so much. You have been an excellent guest.

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.320
<v Speaker 1>It's time to be all done now, So thank you

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:32.880
<v Speaker 1>so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Speaking about favoritism, here's Dad. Oh my god, Dad, Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>So much for joining us for this episode of What

0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:45.040
<v Speaker 1>in the Winkler?

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<v Speaker 2>Tell a friend in the Winkler?

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<v Speaker 1>What in the Winkler? What in the Winkler? Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much for joining us.