Speaker 1: You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler.
Speaker 1: I have a very special guest today. We're just running
Speaker 1: down the whole family today. I have my younger baby brother,
Speaker 1: Max Winkler, director, extraordinary, showrunner, producer, actor. No, I'm not
Speaker 1: an act Okay, dad, husband, dream human anything else.
Speaker 2: No, you can keep going though. I like it.
Speaker 1: An excellent friend.
Speaker 2: Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 1: You're a really good brother. Honestly, thank you, so thanks
Speaker 1: for doing this with me today. My pleasure really happier here.
Speaker 2: You're so happy to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm excited. This is going to be fun because we've
Speaker 1: definitely had like an evolution of our relationship. Would you
Speaker 1: say we were always deat We've always been close, but
Speaker 1: how would you describe our relationship as kids and then
Speaker 1: our relationship now.
Speaker 2: It was contentious as kids at times, because I think
Speaker 2: you feel like we had very different childhoods, where I
Speaker 2: feel like we had pretty similar childhoods. I was just
Speaker 2: the favorite, but everything else was the same, except I
Speaker 2: was treated better.
Speaker 1: This is actually true.
Speaker 2: And I think it's probably true. And I have a
Speaker 2: few core memories about it, Okay, should I share? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I remember you being locked in the mini van with
Speaker 2: the windows cracked. Well, nanny, who I still love, who
Speaker 2: shall not be named, who was I guess abusive made
Speaker 2: you wait inside the car while we got to have McDonald's.
Speaker 1: Maybe we should just give a little background first of all,
Speaker 1: before we just jump into horrifying memories of my childhood.
Speaker 1: So what Max is saying is that we were three
Speaker 1: years apart. Yes, he is August eighteenth, nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 1: I am September thirtieth, nineteen eighty. We have an older
Speaker 1: brother that's nine years older. So when we were in
Speaker 1: when we were young, it was just us because Jeff
Speaker 1: was at college he went to Georgetown and he was
Speaker 1: so we had a nanny. I had a bit of
Speaker 1: a weight issue. I was a little chubby and Max
Speaker 1: was very skinny, and to this day is and I
Speaker 1: think that this ties into sort of like the body
Speaker 1: image situation that I will be discussing with mom. But basically,
Speaker 1: we went we would go to get a snack after
Speaker 1: school and sometimes it was McDonald's and Mom and dad
Speaker 1: said I was no longer allowed to have McDonald's because
Speaker 1: I had a bit of a weight issue, and apparently
Speaker 1: my nanny thought it would be a great idea to
Speaker 1: go to McDonald's because Max wanted it and leave me
Speaker 1: in the car as he went in and got his
Speaker 1: uh happy meal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was unfortunately. I think a lot of those
Speaker 2: things played into your narrative that we had.
Speaker 1: Oh it's a narrative, no, But I think for the
Speaker 1: most so like a glaring example, yeah, okay, but it's
Speaker 1: a narrative.
Speaker 2: Go on, no, because I think that was probably light abuse.
Speaker 2: Needless to say, I think our relationship is great. I
Speaker 2: think it was complicated, probably because you thought I had
Speaker 2: a very easy childhood, even though I clearly did not,
Speaker 2: and was just internalizing those issues which would come out
Speaker 2: in other ways and have you. I do remember some
Speaker 2: core things about our childhood. I remember a lot of
Speaker 2: fun that we had, me too. I remember playing games
Speaker 2: with you in the back of the car, pretending, you know,
Speaker 2: rating each house like a critic and saying, you know,
Speaker 2: I loved that, me too. I also remember going to
Speaker 2: Jenny Craig after Hebrew School and waiting in the car
Speaker 2: while you went to Jenny Craig. So it wasn't easy
Speaker 2: for me either.
Speaker 1: You're such a sick human, all right? Any other core memories.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember only loving you and thinking you were
Speaker 2: very cool and learning a lot about my identity and
Speaker 2: what I thought was cool through your boyfriends. And I
Speaker 2: always thought you dated really really cool guys, and I
Speaker 2: really thought your high schoolers now but I thought, no,
Speaker 2: Brandon Weaver's cool. And I love Nick Bregman still to
Speaker 2: this day. But I Brandon Weaver was your high school
Speaker 2: boyfriend who I just thought was very very cool.
Speaker 1: And actually ran into him as Sir Chow recently.
Speaker 2: He's in real estate now right.
Speaker 1: I thought he said he does like like like travel experiences,
Speaker 1: but I honestly don't know. I had a few martinis.
Speaker 1: It was hard for me to.
Speaker 2: Tell I loved I remember you dated this guy named
Speaker 2: Leo who I like went on vacation and like brought
Speaker 2: him back something from South Carolina like ju Leo DaCosta. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I thought he was really cool. I think I was
Speaker 2: like very looking for like sort of male role models
Speaker 2: and found that in your boyfriend's ohyah, tell that story.
Speaker 1: You took him to Las Vegas for your twenty first birthday.
Speaker 1: He was my boyfriend of three years and he cheated
Speaker 1: on me there, yes, with my father and my brother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he also brought two friends to Las Vegas
Speaker 2: like that we paid for I remember being like, this
Speaker 2: feels strange that we're taking friends of this guy to
Speaker 2: Vegas and I wasn't aware that he was cheating on you.
Speaker 2: I was aware that he was securing the cocaine.
Speaker 1: Though.
Speaker 2: It was my twenty first birthday. We were all on
Speaker 2: drugs and I ended up getting married that night.
Speaker 1: Okay, great, Yeah, who did you marry that night? Again? Uh?
Speaker 2: Her, she's a photographer. Now, she actually does very well.
Speaker 2: She is I think, a very complicated, controversial woman who
Speaker 2: was incredibly beautiful.
Speaker 1: That was that is your That was your that was
Speaker 1: your go to. Really pretty mentally ill. Yeah, controversial, that
Speaker 1: was your go to. Remember you brought someone to Jed's
Speaker 1: wedding and she spoke to cats the entire time on
Speaker 1: the island.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a lot of cats on the island, there.
Speaker 1: Were She would just talk to cats. At our older
Speaker 1: brother's wedding, Max brought a girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was his girlfriend. I still talk to her.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You have a very interesting relationship past, Yeah, you
Speaker 1: sure do.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: It was very different than mine. Mine was very just
Speaker 1: like run of the mill. You know yours was very.
Speaker 2: Run of the mill. Was it run of the mill?
Speaker 1: You don't think so.
Speaker 2: I would never call it run of the mill.
Speaker 1: These memories are such great memories and also make me
Speaker 1: so grateful to be married to Rob.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm grateful for Rob too.
Speaker 1: We all are. If you could describe me in three words,
Speaker 1: then I'll do this for you. What would you? What
Speaker 1: would you? What would be three words to describe me?
Speaker 2: Sensitive?
Speaker 1: Yes, Supportive yes?
Speaker 2: And sensitive?
Speaker 1: I am very sensitive.
Speaker 2: No, I would say loyal. You're extremely loyal. You're extremely sensitive, yeah,
Speaker 2: and you are very empathetic.
Speaker 1: Those are very true, Okay. Yours would be extremely driven,
Speaker 1: a really hard worker. Yeah, and maybe driven. Uh what's the.
Speaker 2: Word when you're very like regimented?
Speaker 1: Yes? No, not regimented, Like you're very consistent, disciplined, consistent
Speaker 1: and like an extremely hard worker. And you are an
Speaker 1: amazing listener.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: You could be doing many things at once, but you
Speaker 1: are always there. If I ever call you and I'm
Speaker 1: having a hard time, which is often, you always pick
Speaker 1: up the phone and you listen to me.
Speaker 2: What is that face I'm just thinking about?
Speaker 1: I'm listening Okay, do you not agree with those things I.
Speaker 2: Think I do. I'm not a very good judge of myself.
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not. I don't think I see myself
Speaker 2: the way that other people do.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, that's one thing I really admire about you
Speaker 1: is that you are a very very very disciplined, hard
Speaker 1: working human being. You work more than anyone I've ever met.
Speaker 2: I really like it, and you're good at it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it makes me happy.
Speaker 1: You're really good at it. Yeah, and which is great
Speaker 1: because I had no idea what you were going to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I'm really I'm impressed.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: And you've made like a whole life for yourself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is so I mean, you are, you know, forty one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but to me, you're still my baby brother, and so
Speaker 1: it's crazy to see you. You know now everyone asks
Speaker 1: me if i'm your sister, which is such a beautiful thing,
Speaker 1: very beautiful.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You're so welcome. Could you talk to me a little
Speaker 1: bit about what drew you to this career path, like
Speaker 1: what did you did? You did you because it was
Speaker 1: always wanted to do it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very I wasn't good at very many things.
Speaker 2: I had really bad learning disabilities, had really bad add
Speaker 2: from a young age. I found reading it's extremely difficult.
Speaker 2: I found math extremely hard. I always had tutors. I
Speaker 2: always had a hard time and got in trouble in
Speaker 2: school because I just wanted to make people laugh or
Speaker 2: I wanted to walk around in the middle of a class.
Speaker 2: And I remember at an early age trying to like
Speaker 2: I was also incredibly convincing of my teachers to not like.
Speaker 2: I went to a school that was very progressive and
Speaker 2: I could ask for instead of writing an essay, can
Speaker 2: I make a movie instead? And it was just easier
Speaker 2: for me. And I loved the collaboration of it. I
Speaker 2: loved visiting Dad on the few film sets that were
Speaker 2: happening during the majority of my life that we weren't
Speaker 2: movies of the week in Vancouver, and I loved I
Speaker 2: loved like the circus element of it. And because I
Speaker 2: have such bad add it's way easier for me to
Speaker 2: be in my job than it is for me to
Speaker 2: be in like a quiet room or in any form
Speaker 2: of real life. But now I get to like show
Speaker 2: my kid that and she gets to come and visit
Speaker 2: me at work because this job I'm doing right now
Speaker 2: is so close to her school, and it like, I
Speaker 2: see because she clearly has my add I can see
Speaker 2: the fun she has for all the different departments and
Speaker 2: fun aspects of a set that I remember being like, oh,
Speaker 2: this feels fun to me.
Speaker 1: You have a three year old who is who you're
Speaker 1: talking about, and then you maybe on the way that's right,
Speaker 1: another girl, that's right. I'm so excited. And I got
Speaker 1: to be in the room when Frankie was born.
Speaker 2: You were unbelievable, I will say, like for all of
Speaker 2: the parts that can be challenging of being in your
Speaker 2: challenging the sensitivity, the unapproachability when you give a note about.
Speaker 1: Something extremely approachable.
Speaker 2: When if I'm trying to give you in the moment
Speaker 2: of wanting to give a slight adjustment, I find you impenetrate, impenetrable. Okay,
Speaker 2: but what and then you do this thing when you're
Speaker 2: in a fight, like babe, so you seem really cranky
Speaker 2: and tired, and it becomes a gaslighting and it creates
Speaker 2: a desire to perform violence on you, which almost happens.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, we many times. But but I'd like to
Speaker 1: just talk what would be like a note that you
Speaker 1: would give me that I would not be able to hear.
Speaker 2: Stop trying to control other people places or things.
Speaker 1: I am very open to that.
Speaker 2: Not in the moment. In the moment, it's who's wrong you?
Speaker 2: Why haven't Why won't they who's wrong?
Speaker 1: Why?
Speaker 2: I wan't exactly, why won't they change? It's always like this, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And for me, I'm like, your time would be so
Speaker 2: much better spent worrying about the things that you can
Speaker 2: control what you're doing now by having this podcast, which
Speaker 2: I'm so happy about.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much. Something about you that
Speaker 1: bothers me is that you talk like a therapy like
Speaker 1: you talk to me like I'm like one of your clients,
Speaker 1: but you're not a therapist. No.
Speaker 2: It's it drives my wife crazy, and I'm sure some
Speaker 2: of my friends. And it's so annoying because I hate
Speaker 2: when people do because I've been to so much therapy
Speaker 2: and I finally feel like I know nothing that I
Speaker 2: least know, like ways to not make myself go more insane,
Speaker 2: which is like expectations of people that are never going
Speaker 2: to change, like wanting them to come and pick me
Speaker 2: up from baseball practice, and like I've accepted that they're.
Speaker 1: Not coming back baseball practice.
Speaker 2: The housekeepers always did.
Speaker 1: First of all, they weren't housekeepers, they were nanny's. And
Speaker 1: second of all, like that is your big complaints.
Speaker 2: No, it's an example.
Speaker 1: I was locked in a car. Well, you went and
Speaker 1: ate French fries in my face. You had like your
Speaker 1: nanny big you up.
Speaker 2: You had a consumption problem.
Speaker 1: Wait, I just I want to talk about two things,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to forget them. So the first
Speaker 1: thing is, I want to tell the story about when
Speaker 1: mom went with you to therapy when you were young,
Speaker 1: and the story that you did with doctor Dan Siegel.
Speaker 2: It wasn't Dan Siegel, it was another one who was
Speaker 2: a guy named doctor Ross. Dad was away doing a
Speaker 2: play in New York. Yeah, Mom, I was acting out again,
Speaker 2: and my mother felt like I needed a mail presence
Speaker 2: in my life, okay, And I went to this guy
Speaker 2: and I was so pissed off that I had to
Speaker 2: have yet another therapist and another after school activity to
Speaker 2: like keep me off the streets.
Speaker 1: You're such a nightmare and.
Speaker 2: From like drinking and smoking and being like just totally missed,
Speaker 2: like an idiot. And so my mom sat with me
Speaker 2: and told him and I said, you know, the thing
Speaker 2: that I want to work on in therapy is when
Speaker 2: my mother continuously comes into my room without her clothes
Speaker 2: on while I'm sleeping in the night and claps around
Speaker 2: the house like a whirling turfish like, and my mom
Speaker 2: started laughing, and the doctor was like really concerned and
Speaker 2: was like, Stacy, that was a lie are me? It
Speaker 2: was total alive. I was just trying to not have
Speaker 2: to come back.
Speaker 1: I think that that's the funniest story. Something I was
Speaker 1: thinking about. Like, we've talked about ways were different, but
Speaker 1: are there ways that we're similar? Do you think?
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can't think of what.
Speaker 1: You can't think of one way that we're similar. You're
Speaker 1: sensitive too.
Speaker 2: I'm very sensitive in a different way.
Speaker 1: You act out in a different way like you act out.
Speaker 1: Your sensitivity is in a different way. But you're very sensitive.
Speaker 2: Too, very sensitive. I think we think the same things
Speaker 2: are funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think we both have our mother's sense of humor.
Speaker 1: We make each other laugh very very much.
Speaker 2: Yes, a wicked sense of humor that involves like people
Speaker 2: tripping and falling and stuff.
Speaker 1: Nothing could be better than that.
Speaker 2: I think we're similar in a lot of ways that
Speaker 2: I'm just unable to pinpoint right now. Do you think
Speaker 2: we're similar?
Speaker 1: I think we're both. I mean we when we're together,
Speaker 1: we laugh in a way that is uncontrolled, especially on
Speaker 1: family vacations. We have the same sense of humor. Usually
Speaker 1: it's at my expense. You're tripping me or tackling me
Speaker 1: to the ground.
Speaker 2: You're very good, like you really like are able.
Speaker 1: To laugh at myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a good quality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, except when I'm impenetrable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okaycept then and.
Speaker 1: Then I was just thinking when we were growing up,
Speaker 1: this is a question that somebody asked me, who got
Speaker 1: in trouble more? That's like a no brainer because you
Speaker 1: did horrible things and never got in trouble.
Speaker 2: To be fair, I was grounded like a significant part
Speaker 2: of my high school, so was I.
Speaker 1: But like, you never really got, like in trouble.
Speaker 2: When I got drunk at school and threw up in
Speaker 2: our class.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so Max started a brand new school where
Speaker 1: my children actually go now and his first month at school, yeah,
Speaker 1: he went off campus with older kids, got drunk in
Speaker 1: ninth grade and then vomited in his Was it art
Speaker 1: history or something? Just regular art, just regular art, vomited
Speaker 1: in his art class. And I was a freshman in
Speaker 1: college at Wisconsin and I got the phone call and
Speaker 1: you were grounded for I mean months at that point.
Speaker 1: Mom was so upset.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That and when I joined a pyramid scheme called
Speaker 2: except and turned over. You used our grandparents to turn
Speaker 2: over their phone lines to this like food gazy phone
Speaker 2: line thing. And Mom told me she was going to
Speaker 2: put me in jail.
Speaker 1: Dad told me he was gonna put me in jail
Speaker 1: once too. I was going to be arrested for grand larceny.
Speaker 1: So we both were both still here high five. High
Speaker 1: five never been to jail. Neither of us have been
Speaker 1: to jail. That's a really that's a positive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And then I'm trying to think, like, what's something that
Speaker 1: we've learned about from each other as adults that we
Speaker 1: didn't really see as kids. I think I always thought
Speaker 1: of you as my younger brother, and I don't know
Speaker 1: that like I had like a lot of like respect
Speaker 1: for you when you were younger, but now I have
Speaker 1: so much respect for you. And yeah, I respect your opinion.
Speaker 1: You're one of like my first calls.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1: Because I think you're really smart, and I think that
Speaker 1: you are. You have an ability to see the bigger picture.
Speaker 1: At times you're talking like a therapist and it's so annoying, Like,
Speaker 1: just talk like a regular person. Okay, you're not a therapist,
Speaker 1: ok Okay, So I just find that to be like,
Speaker 1: I really do trust what you have to say and
Speaker 1: your opinion and your means a lot to me.
Speaker 2: That's really nice to hear. Thanks, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Would I've learned.
Speaker 2: I really think you're an incredible parent. I've asked you
Speaker 2: many many questions about parenting in the three years that
Speaker 2: Frankie has been on this world, and I just I
Speaker 2: find you. I think you're also very good. Actually, don't.
Speaker 2: I think we're wrong. I think you've been wrong about
Speaker 2: some people that you've thought are not good people.
Speaker 1: No, I'm right. No, I know the person you're thinking.
Speaker 2: Of, he's not You're wrong, Okay, I'm telling you.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I think he's a jerk, but I know
Speaker 1: he's okay, great. I mean I don't think about him
Speaker 1: every day, but I.
Speaker 2: Just he's good, great and would do anything to make
Speaker 2: you happy. We're not friends, but even though we would
Speaker 2: still do anything to make you happy moving on, and
Speaker 2: a couple of other people that you hold regis. I
Speaker 2: can't think of them, but I think you're not always right,
Speaker 2: But for the most part, you're very right about it.
Speaker 1: I think I am. Yeah, I think I'm very, very,
Speaker 1: very like spot on. I think I can always completely
Speaker 1: tell when someone is full of shit or not. You
Speaker 1: are insanely regimented about what you eat.
Speaker 2: I exercising that I want that does give me a
Speaker 2: sign infection. Never not.
Speaker 1: You're very, very careful. You would take bread off, you
Speaker 1: would like.
Speaker 2: Because I was allergic to gluten for a period of time.
Speaker 1: No, but you're just you're very You're very You're obsessed
Speaker 1: with working out.
Speaker 2: From my mental state, not because I want to be
Speaker 2: like a buff forty one year old, Like I don't
Speaker 2: think it's cool to be buff. I have to work
Speaker 2: out because I'm crazy. When I wake up in the morning,
Speaker 2: my brain is crazy. So I have to like meditate
Speaker 2: and work out and like do the things that requires
Speaker 2: me to like just get through the door and like
Speaker 2: be normal.
Speaker 1: If you could, if we could describe our sibling relationship
Speaker 1: in three words, how would you describe it?
Speaker 2: Close? Yeah, dependable, yeah, and the complicated yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1: And then I was thinking, like something that you are
Speaker 1: really good at that I'm not good at is you
Speaker 1: don't you you don't like you? Can you can handle
Speaker 1: if someone doesn't like you, it doesn't ruin your day,
Speaker 1: It doesn't.
Speaker 2: No, I don't care anymore. Yeah, I think, yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm not good at that. Like if I have like
Speaker 1: an if I have a problem with somebody in my
Speaker 1: life or someone doesn't like me, or a friend gets
Speaker 1: upset with me or something I mean which you know,
Speaker 1: or I get in a car like a thing with
Speaker 1: a sibling or mom or dad or whatever it consumes me.
Speaker 2: It seems to ravage you like a rebel force. The
Speaker 2: thing you do to me that is so frustrating because
Speaker 2: I'm pretty comfortable with who I am.
Speaker 1: Oh I literally was just saying something I might admire
Speaker 1: about you.
Speaker 2: But let's talk nobody. I'm going to tell you because
Speaker 2: I know who I am, and you telling me to
Speaker 2: be somebody else to people and be like say hi
Speaker 2: to this person, like be nice to them, like because.
Speaker 1: Max, you you have a personality disorder there. That's funny
Speaker 1: times that you don't say hello to somebody.
Speaker 2: But the people who know me know that that's who
Speaker 2: I am, and know that I'm trying my best.
Speaker 1: But I want and like I give you.
Speaker 2: That annoys me more than feeling neediness out of someone
Speaker 2: or feeling you're feeling neediness out of you to be
Speaker 2: like say hi to this person. I think you don't
Speaker 2: like me. It makes me shut down.
Speaker 1: That's not being needy. That's like giving you, by the way,
Speaker 1: that is giving you a note.
Speaker 2: But I'm you should take. I'm not uncomfortable. I'm whatever
Speaker 2: I am. I'm me and like sometimes like pleasantries in
Speaker 2: your kitchen with like people that you're in my exactly,
Speaker 2: but I'm me, And like if those people ask me
Speaker 2: to help them or do something, I would help them,
Speaker 2: Like I don't need to say hi to them.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no no. That's where you're wrong. You say
Speaker 1: hello to everybody. That's like how life works, that you're
Speaker 1: a human being on this earth, and if you walk
Speaker 1: into someone's home, you say hello to other people that
Speaker 1: are standing.
Speaker 2: But if I, first of all, I don't agree. Second
Speaker 2: of all, I need.
Speaker 1: Second, we need a we need a howard like a poll.
Speaker 1: Do you or do you not think it's important to
Speaker 1: acknowledge a human being?
Speaker 2: I do but what is my acknowledgment is different from yours.
Speaker 2: So sometimes like just a hand on the back and
Speaker 2: say like how are you?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Is how I say hi to somebody, and then I
Speaker 2: prove my worth as a good friend or good brothers
Speaker 2: you've described through time and like I just don't want
Speaker 2: to make small talk with like certain people.
Speaker 1: Okay, cool, I think and tell me to.
Speaker 2: Do like perform more like I'm some kind of like
Speaker 2: a trick animal no repel.
Speaker 1: Fare, minimum of a human decency is not an animal.
Speaker 2: It is just literally me as as as a good
Speaker 2: brother you are to me and a good friend you.
Speaker 1: Are to people that are in your life, in your circle,
Speaker 1: but you sometimes have a hard time like in social situations.
Speaker 2: But because it just takes me a minute, okay, so
Speaker 2: just like allow that to happen. Like look at my
Speaker 2: relationship with your friend Simone. My relationship with your friend
Speaker 2: Simone was so awkward and strange because she's probably a
Speaker 2: little like me and we would just like not be
Speaker 2: nice to each other. And now we're friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that for you guys, and.
Speaker 2: It just took us what it took.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well I'll thank you. I will definitely take note
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: My relationship with Rob, Yeah, it's better than it's ever been.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are close.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's my brother in law. I love him.
Speaker 1: He's the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, But like I still don't one hundred percent
Speaker 1: understand because I feel like sometimes I don't know that
Speaker 1: you're aware that you come off extremely rude and dismissive,
Speaker 1: and so I'm trying to I do.
Speaker 2: I am aware. I don't care as the thing, but.
Speaker 1: How could you not care? Like I don't understand that.
Speaker 1: How could you not care if you're making somebody else
Speaker 1: feel bad?
Speaker 2: Because I know I'm not rude and dismissive.
Speaker 1: But if you're making somebody else feel that way, how
Speaker 1: could you? In Like this is when I like literally
Speaker 1: think we're separated at birth in by like no, well,
Speaker 1: I guess separated birth. We're so similar. I don't know
Speaker 1: we're so different because like, if I have hurt someone,
Speaker 1: I want to die And why are you doing that?
Speaker 1: What did you do that?
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: Okay? Moving forward? I think maybe you're on the spectrum.
Speaker 2: I know that I am so like, stop trying to
Speaker 2: make me into like mister, like I'm a brother, what's
Speaker 2: going on?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Cool? Hat like I don't care. Okay, I love your kids,
Speaker 2: I love your family. Okay, great, So you love Lois
Speaker 2: Rhiness Okay, okay, great, she's regimented like me.
Speaker 1: Yeah she is. So it's Hillary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Hillary. Hillary is some when I've had
Speaker 2: a roller coaster of a relationship with. Now we sit
Speaker 2: in the sauna, we catch up, we talk about things. Great,
Speaker 2: I'll just let you be you try it and don't
Speaker 2: take it on. And if somebody's annoyed with me, it's
Speaker 2: not about you. It's fine. Let them learn the real
Speaker 2: me through multiple interactions where I finally warm up and
Speaker 2: I can look them in the eye and say hello
Speaker 2: in a normal way.
Speaker 1: Okay, just take me a second. I thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I'm I don't want to be an asshole. Same wrestler
Speaker 2: has this experience with me too, and like.
Speaker 1: Sam Wrestler and I are similar in some ways very yeah,
Speaker 1: so we both But do you think that, like at
Speaker 1: any point are you like, Wow, this is gonna make
Speaker 1: my sister or Sam, who's your one of your very
Speaker 1: best friends, feel uncomfortable. So I'll just like do something
Speaker 1: out of my own comfort zone for that.
Speaker 2: I do just by saying hello, even in the most
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 1: Saying hello to somebody that is out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1: You are a sick human being.
Speaker 2: But guess who married Sam Guess who she chose to marry.
Speaker 2: Marry her when she married Jason Borg. You so clearly
Speaker 2: saying not being nice to her ex boyfriend who laughed
Speaker 2: so loud that I couldn't even begin to describe it
Speaker 2: is not a big issue.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well you know what, Max, I'm gonna try it out.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be one you matter, I really say hello
Speaker 2: to Okay, I say hello. I say hello to the
Speaker 2: ones who matter.
Speaker 1: That yat take that. That is that is the that
Speaker 1: is the little SoundBite of this. I can't.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it, like, let's talk about real stuff.
Speaker 1: Are you seeing a therapist right now?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Okay? Who is it?
Speaker 2: A great one named doctor Emily Cavell who's really helped me?
Speaker 2: Oh right right, my first therapist who's incredibly not my.
Speaker 1: First therapist any talking about studs.
Speaker 2: Thirty if no pri stuts was a doc named lou Katzman.
Speaker 1: Where is he?
Speaker 2: He changed my life? It's a she and she's dead.
Speaker 2: Shame on you. And she was one of the most
Speaker 2: important people to me of all time m hm. And
Speaker 2: she passed. And then I saw Phil Stutts, who I
Speaker 2: love and I still call when I'm in a GM
Speaker 2: about stuff. And I have all my note cards and
Speaker 2: I bring my note cards with me everywhere.
Speaker 1: You sent me to like one of Stutts's proteges ones
Speaker 1: to go well, No, it was the craziest experience I've
Speaker 1: ever had. That's what she was, drying mountains on a
Speaker 1: piece of paper. Yes, that is a tool, right.
Speaker 2: Stut's saved my life and really worked for me and
Speaker 2: was one of the greatest gifts that one of my
Speaker 2: best friends sent me there. And I see now another
Speaker 2: kind of more day to day therapist. I am to
Speaker 2: see her in case you forgot doctor Cavell. You didn't see.
Speaker 1: I absolutely saw her when my doctor was sick. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was referred to her.
Speaker 2: I love her. She's very helpful to me and like
Speaker 2: very empathetic and really actually cried when I told her
Speaker 2: about my dog dying. This is where we need to
Speaker 2: get to. Yeah, this is how it happens. This is real.
Speaker 2: We're getting real right now. You think I get special privileges,
Speaker 2: You think everything I do is whatever you because I'm
Speaker 2: easy because I'm a delight because I say hello to
Speaker 2: the people I love.
Speaker 1: I am easy, I am a delay.
Speaker 2: You're not easy. You are many things, but you're not easy.
Speaker 1: Oh, you want to talk about favoritism, Dad's going to
Speaker 1: come in here? Great, Like, who cares Dad's gonna come
Speaker 1: when we talk about favoritism, because we.
Speaker 2: Did talk about that about so Hamlet, your lack of
Speaker 2: empathy for Hamlet was because Hamlet represents I.
Speaker 1: Do have a hard time sometimes with Rob tells me
Speaker 1: I'm not empathetic to him as well. There are certain
Speaker 1: I think people that I feel the safest with. Sometimes
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I have like a block sometimes
Speaker 1: of empathy.
Speaker 2: But you believe, what we're not talking about with Hamlet
Speaker 2: was that mother put her obsession with me onto the dog.
Speaker 1: There is a difference, if we're going to be honest,
Speaker 1: there was a huge difference in the way that we
Speaker 1: were treated. Granted, we both had beautiful, wonderful, amazing childhoods.
Speaker 1: We are so fucking lucky beyond, but there was a
Speaker 1: huge difference. You could it was never the same, Like
Speaker 1: you could do something and I could do something, and
Speaker 1: I would get in trouble for it, and you wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Mom like you hates feeling needy. Unfortunately, children sometimes are
Speaker 1: a little needy. You for some reason, didn't trigger that
Speaker 1: in her, So it was a much easier relationship. It
Speaker 1: was very difficult for any.
Speaker 2: Others, and daughters is a complicated thing.
Speaker 1: I think that that's bullshit. Actually really yeah, And I
Speaker 1: don't think that that's I think that it depends. I
Speaker 1: think like people are like, oh, well, mothers and you know,
Speaker 1: mothers and sons and daughter. I think that that's bullshit.
Speaker 2: What if I was just cuter and funnier, Like what if?
Speaker 2: Like what if I don't know. I look at pictures
Speaker 2: of you, and I'm like, she was so cute and
Speaker 2: sweet and funny and nurturing, and she wanted to be
Speaker 2: a teacher. She helped the stewardesses like ye about coke.
Speaker 2: But like, maybe I was that cute and funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I have three kids, and I have one of
Speaker 1: my children who's definitely like a little bit more trying
Speaker 1: in many ways, and it takes.
Speaker 2: A lot more out of me. Do you have a favorite?
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I love them each for so many
Speaker 1: of the same reasons and so many different reasons, and
Speaker 1: I find and you will see this.
Speaker 2: When you came and liking my next child, I.
Speaker 1: Thought the same thing, and then it's like, I don't
Speaker 1: when I started having when after I had Ace and
Speaker 1: I was gonna have Jewels and Gus. Actually, when the
Speaker 1: director at the preschool that I worked at forever told
Speaker 1: me how to explain it, and she was like, it's
Speaker 1: not that you're hurt, you know. It's not that you
Speaker 1: have to split time. It's not that you have to
Speaker 1: split your heart in half. Your heart just gets bigger.
Speaker 1: And it's so true. It's like lighting a candle. One
Speaker 1: candle lights all the other candles, you know, like it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Because I actually was very concerned that I would not
Speaker 2: like Frankie as much as I liked Hamlet. And the
Speaker 2: day just went into labor, I was crying, sobbing in
Speaker 2: the car going to have dinner with Margaret White Spin
Speaker 2: and armand whitespin about that change, and I ended up
Speaker 2: the next day she was born. I never a Hamlet,
Speaker 2: never slept in our house again, and I moved on
Speaker 2: very quickly.
Speaker 1: But you were really sad when Hamlet died, even though
Speaker 1: he never in your house again.
Speaker 2: And heartbroken. Yeah, so I'm.
Speaker 1: Sure that I'm happy him was stead.
Speaker 2: It's made my life a lot more complicated. Frankie still
Speaker 2: believes that he's on a farm and that she's going
Speaker 2: to go see him hard, but it has made my
Speaker 2: life like there is not I wouldn't say. I would say, like,
Speaker 2: there's not that same experience of a loaded gun being
Speaker 2: in the house that there used to be, right even.
Speaker 1: Though, but by the way, I think that you as
Speaker 1: a parent have to make all of your children feel
Speaker 1: equally respected and equally valued, and sometimes your needs outweighed
Speaker 1: the needs of the other people in the home.
Speaker 2: Is it possible that I had less needs?
Speaker 1: No, you have a tremendous amount of needs. Really, max, If.
Speaker 2: You really, I get go on, so, like, what are
Speaker 2: my needs?
Speaker 1: You just like it's like if you want to take
Speaker 1: a bath in mom's bath.
Speaker 2: All I want to do is all I want to
Speaker 2: do is take a bath in my mom's bath and
Speaker 2: work out in the morning. Is that too much to add?
Speaker 2: That's what I want. I would live in this house
Speaker 2: if I could. If we were in Italy, I would
Speaker 2: live If we were Italians, I would live in this house.
Speaker 2: I would bring a little more room for the first
Speaker 2: of my life. I'm kind of thinking like maybe I
Speaker 2: don't want to be here anymore. But up until a
Speaker 2: year ago, I would have happily you did house like you.
Speaker 1: Did live here because you were filming and you rented
Speaker 1: out your house and you did it.
Speaker 2: But we were only here for little spurts at a
Speaker 2: time because we were in New York for the whole year.
Speaker 2: But I would still live in this house if I could,
Speaker 2: I know, and very very never, I've never taken a
Speaker 2: bath as good as the bath in mom's bathtub, the
Speaker 2: way she washes my hair. It's here's what I love
Speaker 2: a bath. I love a couple of things. I love
Speaker 2: that there's a television there. I love the depth of it.
Speaker 2: I love that I know how to use the machine
Speaker 2: perfectly and get it just the right scalding.
Speaker 1: Tempchine the bath.
Speaker 2: I like to get into a bath so hot that
Speaker 2: I can only get in a tiny bit at a time.
Speaker 2: I don't like to constantly refill it. Okay, I like
Speaker 2: to watch sports in the bath.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. And this feels like really important
Speaker 1: information to have. I'm so great.
Speaker 2: I like to wear her robes.
Speaker 1: You do you wear her robes?
Speaker 2: I will tell you a secret. I slept here recently
Speaker 2: when Mom wasn't feeling well. Yeah, and I did not
Speaker 2: have It was very cold in the house, yeah, because
Speaker 2: mother likes it arctic arctic chill, because she's an Arctic fox.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't find something asleep, and I don't have
Speaker 2: clothes here, and so I slept in one of mother's
Speaker 2: night shirts.
Speaker 1: Swear to god, did you doctor doctor Emilikavell about it?
Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's weird. I felt so. First
Speaker 2: of all, men slept in night shirts all the time
Speaker 2: in the Middle Age so they could use their bed.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now we understand you're also a historian.
Speaker 2: And I slept in a Yes, that's my that's my soliloquy,
Speaker 2: that history.
Speaker 1: Historian, dog trainer, therapist.
Speaker 2: And I continuer, Yeah, and it was one of the
Speaker 2: best sleeps of my life.
Speaker 1: Could get some. Mom gets them from London.
Speaker 2: I've never been able to.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she'll give you them, moll.
Speaker 2: I don't even wear underwear. It's very uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 2: And so I was sleeping in this night sure was perfect.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much. You have been an excellent guest.
Speaker 1: It's time to be all done now, So thank you
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: Speaking about favoritism, here's Dad. Oh my god, Dad, Thank you.
Speaker 1: So much for joining us for this episode of What
Speaker 1: in the Winkler?
Speaker 2: Tell a friend in the Winkler?
Speaker 1: What in the Winkler? What in the Winkler? Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us.