1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: You are listening to What in the Winkler and iHeartRadio podcast. 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of What in the Winkler. 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: I have a very special guest today. We're just running 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: down the whole family today. I have my younger baby brother, 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: Max Winkler, director, extraordinary, showrunner, producer, actor. No, I'm not 6 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: an act Okay, dad, husband, dream human anything else. 7 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 2: No, you can keep going though. I like it. 8 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: An excellent friend. 9 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: Thank you, You're welcome. 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: You're a really good brother. Honestly, thank you, so thanks 11 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: for doing this with me today. My pleasure really happier here. 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: You're so happy to be here. 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm excited. This is going to be fun because we've 14 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: definitely had like an evolution of our relationship. Would you 15 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: say we were always deat We've always been close, but 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: how would you describe our relationship as kids and then 17 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: our relationship now. 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,559 Speaker 2: It was contentious as kids at times, because I think 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: you feel like we had very different childhoods, where I 20 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: feel like we had pretty similar childhoods. I was just 21 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 2: the favorite, but everything else was the same, except I 22 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: was treated better. 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: This is actually true. 24 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 2: And I think it's probably true. And I have a 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 2: few core memories about it, Okay, should I share? Yeah, 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: I remember you being locked in the mini van with 27 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: the windows cracked. Well, nanny, who I still love, who 28 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: shall not be named, who was I guess abusive made 29 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: you wait inside the car while we got to have McDonald's. 30 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: Maybe we should just give a little background first of all, 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: before we just jump into horrifying memories of my childhood. 32 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: So what Max is saying is that we were three 33 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: years apart. Yes, he is August eighteenth, nineteen eighty three. 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: I am September thirtieth, nineteen eighty. We have an older 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: brother that's nine years older. So when we were in 36 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: when we were young, it was just us because Jeff 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: was at college he went to Georgetown and he was 38 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: so we had a nanny. I had a bit of 39 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: a weight issue. I was a little chubby and Max 40 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: was very skinny, and to this day is and I 41 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: think that this ties into sort of like the body 42 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: image situation that I will be discussing with mom. But basically, 43 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: we went we would go to get a snack after 44 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: school and sometimes it was McDonald's and Mom and dad 45 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: said I was no longer allowed to have McDonald's because 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: I had a bit of a weight issue, and apparently 47 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: my nanny thought it would be a great idea to 48 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: go to McDonald's because Max wanted it and leave me 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: in the car as he went in and got his 50 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: uh happy meal. 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was unfortunately. I think a lot of those 52 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 2: things played into your narrative that we had. 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: Oh it's a narrative, no, But I think for the 54 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: most so like a glaring example, yeah, okay, but it's 55 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: a narrative. 56 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: Go on, no, because I think that was probably light abuse. 57 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 2: Needless to say, I think our relationship is great. I 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: think it was complicated, probably because you thought I had 59 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: a very easy childhood, even though I clearly did not, 60 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: and was just internalizing those issues which would come out 61 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: in other ways and have you. I do remember some 62 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: core things about our childhood. I remember a lot of 63 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: fun that we had, me too. I remember playing games 64 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: with you in the back of the car, pretending, you know, 65 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: rating each house like a critic and saying, you know, 66 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: I loved that, me too. I also remember going to 67 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: Jenny Craig after Hebrew School and waiting in the car 68 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 2: while you went to Jenny Craig. So it wasn't easy 69 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: for me either. 70 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: You're such a sick human, all right? Any other core memories. 71 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember only loving you and thinking you were 72 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: very cool and learning a lot about my identity and 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: what I thought was cool through your boyfriends. And I 74 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 2: always thought you dated really really cool guys, and I 75 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 2: really thought your high schoolers now but I thought, no, 76 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: Brandon Weaver's cool. And I love Nick Bregman still to 77 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 2: this day. But I Brandon Weaver was your high school 78 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 2: boyfriend who I just thought was very very cool. 79 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: And actually ran into him as Sir Chow recently. 80 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: He's in real estate now right. 81 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: I thought he said he does like like like travel experiences, 82 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: but I honestly don't know. I had a few martinis. 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: It was hard for me to. 84 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: Tell I loved I remember you dated this guy named 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,119 Speaker 2: Leo who I like went on vacation and like brought 86 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: him back something from South Carolina like ju Leo DaCosta. Yeah, 87 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 2: I thought he was really cool. I think I was 88 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: like very looking for like sort of male role models 89 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 2: and found that in your boyfriend's ohyah, tell that story. 90 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: You took him to Las Vegas for your twenty first birthday. 91 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: He was my boyfriend of three years and he cheated 92 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: on me there, yes, with my father and my brother. 93 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he also brought two friends to Las Vegas 94 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: like that we paid for I remember being like, this 95 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 2: feels strange that we're taking friends of this guy to 96 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: Vegas and I wasn't aware that he was cheating on you. 97 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 2: I was aware that he was securing the cocaine. 98 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: Though. 99 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: It was my twenty first birthday. We were all on 100 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 2: drugs and I ended up getting married that night. 101 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: Okay, great, Yeah, who did you marry that night? Again? Uh? 102 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 2: Her, she's a photographer. Now, she actually does very well. 103 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 2: She is I think, a very complicated, controversial woman who 104 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 2: was incredibly beautiful. 105 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: That was that is your That was your that was 106 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 1: your go to. Really pretty mentally ill. Yeah, controversial, that 107 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: was your go to. Remember you brought someone to Jed's 108 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: wedding and she spoke to cats the entire time on 109 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: the island. 110 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a lot of cats on the island, there. 111 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: Were She would just talk to cats. At our older 112 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: brother's wedding, Max brought a girlfriend. 113 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was his girlfriend. I still talk to her. 114 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: Yeah. You have a very interesting relationship past, Yeah, you 115 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: sure do. 116 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 2: So. 117 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: It was very different than mine. Mine was very just 118 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: like run of the mill. You know yours was very. 119 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: Run of the mill. Was it run of the mill? 120 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: You don't think so. 121 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: I would never call it run of the mill. 122 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: These memories are such great memories and also make me 123 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: so grateful to be married to Rob. 124 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm grateful for Rob too. 125 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: We all are. If you could describe me in three words, 126 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 1: then I'll do this for you. What would you? What 127 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: would you? What would be three words to describe me? 128 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: Sensitive? 129 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: Yes, Supportive yes? 130 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 2: And sensitive? 131 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: I am very sensitive. 132 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: No, I would say loyal. You're extremely loyal. You're extremely sensitive, yeah, 133 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: and you are very empathetic. 134 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,720 Speaker 1: Those are very true, Okay. Yours would be extremely driven, 135 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: a really hard worker. Yeah, and maybe driven. Uh what's the. 136 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: Word when you're very like regimented? 137 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: Yes? No, not regimented, Like you're very consistent, disciplined, consistent 138 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: and like an extremely hard worker. And you are an 139 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: amazing listener. 140 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: Really yeah, thank you. 141 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: You could be doing many things at once, but you 142 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: are always there. If I ever call you and I'm 143 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: having a hard time, which is often, you always pick 144 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: up the phone and you listen to me. 145 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: What is that face I'm just thinking about? 146 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: I'm listening Okay, do you not agree with those things I. 147 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: Think I do. I'm not a very good judge of myself. 148 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not. I don't think I see myself 149 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: the way that other people do. 150 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: Okay, well, that's one thing I really admire about you 151 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: is that you are a very very very disciplined, hard 152 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: working human being. You work more than anyone I've ever met. 153 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: I really like it, and you're good at it. Yeah, 154 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 2: it makes me happy. 155 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,559 Speaker 1: You're really good at it. Yeah, and which is great 156 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: because I had no idea what you were going to do. Yeah, 157 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: So I'm really I'm impressed. 158 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: Thank you. 159 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: And you've made like a whole life for yourself. Yeah, 160 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: which is so I mean, you are, you know, forty one. Yeah, 161 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: but to me, you're still my baby brother, and so 162 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: it's crazy to see you. You know now everyone asks 163 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: me if i'm your sister, which is such a beautiful thing, 164 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: very beautiful. 165 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 166 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: You're so welcome. Could you talk to me a little 167 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: bit about what drew you to this career path, like 168 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: what did you did? You did you because it was 169 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: always wanted to do it? 170 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very I wasn't good at very many things. 171 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: I had really bad learning disabilities, had really bad add 172 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: from a young age. I found reading it's extremely difficult. 173 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: I found math extremely hard. I always had tutors. I 174 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: always had a hard time and got in trouble in 175 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: school because I just wanted to make people laugh or 176 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: I wanted to walk around in the middle of a class. 177 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 2: And I remember at an early age trying to like 178 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 2: I was also incredibly convincing of my teachers to not like. 179 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: I went to a school that was very progressive and 180 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: I could ask for instead of writing an essay, can 181 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 2: I make a movie instead? And it was just easier 182 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: for me. And I loved the collaboration of it. I 183 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: loved visiting Dad on the few film sets that were 184 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 2: happening during the majority of my life that we weren't 185 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: movies of the week in Vancouver, and I loved I 186 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:50,440 Speaker 2: loved like the circus element of it. And because I 187 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: have such bad add it's way easier for me to 188 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: be in my job than it is for me to 189 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 2: be in like a quiet room or in any form 190 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 2: of real life. But now I get to like show 191 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: my kid that and she gets to come and visit 192 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 2: me at work because this job I'm doing right now 193 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 2: is so close to her school, and it like, I 194 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 2: see because she clearly has my add I can see 195 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: the fun she has for all the different departments and 196 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 2: fun aspects of a set that I remember being like, oh, 197 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 2: this feels fun to me. 198 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: You have a three year old who is who you're 199 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: talking about, and then you maybe on the way that's right, 200 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: another girl, that's right. I'm so excited. And I got 201 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: to be in the room when Frankie was born. 202 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: You were unbelievable, I will say, like for all of 203 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 2: the parts that can be challenging of being in your 204 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 2: challenging the sensitivity, the unapproachability when you give a note about. 205 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: Something extremely approachable. 206 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: When if I'm trying to give you in the moment 207 00:10:54,800 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: of wanting to give a slight adjustment, I find you impenetrate, impenetrable. Okay, 208 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: but what and then you do this thing when you're 209 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: in a fight, like babe, so you seem really cranky 210 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,359 Speaker 2: and tired, and it becomes a gaslighting and it creates 211 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 2: a desire to perform violence on you, which almost happens. 212 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, we many times. But but I'd like to 213 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: just talk what would be like a note that you 214 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: would give me that I would not be able to hear. 215 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: Stop trying to control other people places or things. 216 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: I am very open to that. 217 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: Not in the moment. In the moment, it's who's wrong you? 218 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: Why haven't Why won't they who's wrong? 219 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: Why? 220 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 2: I wan't exactly, why won't they change? It's always like this, yeah, yeah, 221 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: And for me, I'm like, your time would be so 222 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: much better spent worrying about the things that you can 223 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: control what you're doing now by having this podcast, which 224 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: I'm so happy about. 225 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you so much. Something about you that 226 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: bothers me is that you talk like a therapy like 227 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: you talk to me like I'm like one of your clients, 228 00:11:57,920 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: but you're not a therapist. No. 229 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: It's it drives my wife crazy, and I'm sure some 230 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: of my friends. And it's so annoying because I hate 231 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: when people do because I've been to so much therapy 232 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: and I finally feel like I know nothing that I 233 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 2: least know, like ways to not make myself go more insane, 234 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: which is like expectations of people that are never going 235 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: to change, like wanting them to come and pick me 236 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: up from baseball practice, and like I've accepted that they're. 237 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: Not coming back baseball practice. 238 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 2: The housekeepers always did. 239 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: First of all, they weren't housekeepers, they were nanny's. And 240 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: second of all, like that is your big complaints. 241 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 2: No, it's an example. 242 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: I was locked in a car. Well, you went and 243 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: ate French fries in my face. You had like your 244 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: nanny big you up. 245 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 2: You had a consumption problem. 246 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: Wait, I just I want to talk about two things, 247 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: and I don't want to forget them. So the first 248 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: thing is, I want to tell the story about when 249 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: mom went with you to therapy when you were young, 250 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: and the story that you did with doctor Dan Siegel. 251 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 2: It wasn't Dan Siegel, it was another one who was 252 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: a guy named doctor Ross. Dad was away doing a 253 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: play in New York. Yeah, Mom, I was acting out again, 254 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: and my mother felt like I needed a mail presence 255 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 2: in my life, okay, And I went to this guy 256 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: and I was so pissed off that I had to 257 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: have yet another therapist and another after school activity to 258 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: like keep me off the streets. 259 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: You're such a nightmare and. 260 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: From like drinking and smoking and being like just totally missed, 261 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: like an idiot. And so my mom sat with me 262 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: and told him and I said, you know, the thing 263 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: that I want to work on in therapy is when 264 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 2: my mother continuously comes into my room without her clothes 265 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 2: on while I'm sleeping in the night and claps around 266 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 2: the house like a whirling turfish like, and my mom 267 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 2: started laughing, and the doctor was like really concerned and 268 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: was like, Stacy, that was a lie are me? It 269 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: was total alive. I was just trying to not have 270 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 2: to come back. 271 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,839 Speaker 1: I think that that's the funniest story. Something I was 272 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: thinking about. Like, we've talked about ways were different, but 273 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: are there ways that we're similar? Do you think? 274 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 2: I'm sure you can't think of what. 275 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: You can't think of one way that we're similar. You're 276 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: sensitive too. 277 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: I'm very sensitive in a different way. 278 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: You act out in a different way like you act out. 279 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: Your sensitivity is in a different way. But you're very sensitive. 280 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: Too, very sensitive. I think we think the same things 281 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 2: are funny. 282 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 283 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: I think we both have our mother's sense of humor. 284 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: We make each other laugh very very much. 285 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: Yes, a wicked sense of humor that involves like people 286 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 2: tripping and falling and stuff. 287 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: Nothing could be better than that. 288 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: I think we're similar in a lot of ways that 289 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: I'm just unable to pinpoint right now. Do you think 290 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 2: we're similar? 291 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: I think we're both. I mean we when we're together, 292 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: we laugh in a way that is uncontrolled, especially on 293 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: family vacations. We have the same sense of humor. Usually 294 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: it's at my expense. You're tripping me or tackling me 295 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: to the ground. 296 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: You're very good, like you really like are able. 297 00:14:58,480 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: To laugh at myself. 298 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a good quality. 299 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, except when I'm impenetrable. 300 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, okaycept then and. 301 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: Then I was just thinking when we were growing up, 302 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: this is a question that somebody asked me, who got 303 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: in trouble more? That's like a no brainer because you 304 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: did horrible things and never got in trouble. 305 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 2: To be fair, I was grounded like a significant part 306 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: of my high school, so was I. 307 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: But like, you never really got, like in trouble. 308 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: When I got drunk at school and threw up in 309 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:26,920 Speaker 2: our class. 310 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so Max started a brand new school where 311 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: my children actually go now and his first month at school, yeah, 312 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: he went off campus with older kids, got drunk in 313 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: ninth grade and then vomited in his Was it art 314 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: history or something? Just regular art, just regular art, vomited 315 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: in his art class. And I was a freshman in 316 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: college at Wisconsin and I got the phone call and 317 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 1: you were grounded for I mean months at that point. 318 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 1: Mom was so upset. 319 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. That and when I joined a pyramid scheme called 320 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: except and turned over. You used our grandparents to turn 321 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: over their phone lines to this like food gazy phone 322 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: line thing. And Mom told me she was going to 323 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 2: put me in jail. 324 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: Dad told me he was gonna put me in jail 325 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: once too. I was going to be arrested for grand larceny. 326 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: So we both were both still here high five. High 327 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: five never been to jail. Neither of us have been 328 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: to jail. That's a really that's a positive. 329 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. 330 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: And then I'm trying to think, like, what's something that 331 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: we've learned about from each other as adults that we 332 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: didn't really see as kids. I think I always thought 333 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: of you as my younger brother, and I don't know 334 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: that like I had like a lot of like respect 335 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: for you when you were younger, but now I have 336 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: so much respect for you. And yeah, I respect your opinion. 337 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: You're one of like my first calls. 338 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? 339 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: Because I think you're really smart, and I think that 340 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: you are. You have an ability to see the bigger picture. 341 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: At times you're talking like a therapist and it's so annoying, Like, 342 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: just talk like a regular person. Okay, you're not a therapist, 343 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: ok Okay, So I just find that to be like, 344 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: I really do trust what you have to say and 345 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: your opinion and your means a lot to me. 346 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 2: That's really nice to hear. Thanks, thank you so much. 347 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: Would I've learned. 348 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: I really think you're an incredible parent. I've asked you 349 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: many many questions about parenting in the three years that 350 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: Frankie has been on this world, and I just I 351 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 2: find you. I think you're also very good. Actually, don't. 352 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 2: I think we're wrong. I think you've been wrong about 353 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 2: some people that you've thought are not good people. 354 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: No, I'm right. No, I know the person you're thinking. 355 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 2: Of, he's not You're wrong, Okay, I'm telling you. 356 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I think he's a jerk, but I know 357 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: he's okay, great. I mean I don't think about him 358 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: every day, but I. 359 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: Just he's good, great and would do anything to make 360 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: you happy. We're not friends, but even though we would 361 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: still do anything to make you happy moving on, and 362 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 2: a couple of other people that you hold regis. I 363 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: can't think of them, but I think you're not always right, 364 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 2: But for the most part, you're very right about it. 365 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: I think I am. Yeah, I think I'm very, very, 366 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 1: very like spot on. I think I can always completely 367 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: tell when someone is full of shit or not. You 368 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: are insanely regimented about what you eat. 369 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: I exercising that I want that does give me a 370 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 2: sign infection. Never not. 371 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: You're very, very careful. You would take bread off, you 372 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: would like. 373 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 2: Because I was allergic to gluten for a period of time. 374 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: No, but you're just you're very You're very You're obsessed 375 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: with working out. 376 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: From my mental state, not because I want to be 377 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 2: like a buff forty one year old, Like I don't 378 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 2: think it's cool to be buff. I have to work 379 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 2: out because I'm crazy. When I wake up in the morning, 380 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: my brain is crazy. So I have to like meditate 381 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: and work out and like do the things that requires 382 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 2: me to like just get through the door and like 383 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 2: be normal. 384 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: If you could, if we could describe our sibling relationship 385 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: in three words, how would you describe it? 386 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 2: Close? Yeah, dependable, yeah, and the complicated yeah, I agree. 387 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: And then I was thinking, like something that you are 388 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: really good at that I'm not good at is you 389 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: don't you you don't like you? Can you can handle 390 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: if someone doesn't like you, it doesn't ruin your day, 391 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: It doesn't. 392 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 2: No, I don't care anymore. Yeah, I think, yeah. 393 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: I'm not good at that. Like if I have like 394 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: an if I have a problem with somebody in my 395 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: life or someone doesn't like me, or a friend gets 396 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: upset with me or something I mean which you know, 397 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: or I get in a car like a thing with 398 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 1: a sibling or mom or dad or whatever it consumes me. 399 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 2: It seems to ravage you like a rebel force. The 400 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 2: thing you do to me that is so frustrating because 401 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: I'm pretty comfortable with who I am. 402 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: Oh I literally was just saying something I might admire 403 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: about you. 404 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: But let's talk nobody. I'm going to tell you because 405 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 2: I know who I am, and you telling me to 406 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: be somebody else to people and be like say hi 407 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: to this person, like be nice to them, like because. 408 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: Max, you you have a personality disorder there. That's funny 409 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: times that you don't say hello to somebody. 410 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 2: But the people who know me know that that's who 411 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: I am, and know that I'm trying my best. 412 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: But I want and like I give you. 413 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: That annoys me more than feeling neediness out of someone 414 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: or feeling you're feeling neediness out of you to be 415 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 2: like say hi to this person. I think you don't 416 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: like me. It makes me shut down. 417 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: That's not being needy. That's like giving you, by the way, 418 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: that is giving you a note. 419 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 2: But I'm you should take. I'm not uncomfortable. I'm whatever 420 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: I am. I'm me and like sometimes like pleasantries in 421 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 2: your kitchen with like people that you're in my exactly, 422 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 2: but I'm me, And like if those people ask me 423 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: to help them or do something, I would help them, 424 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 2: Like I don't need to say hi to them. 425 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no no. That's where you're wrong. You say 426 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: hello to everybody. That's like how life works, that you're 427 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: a human being on this earth, and if you walk 428 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: into someone's home, you say hello to other people that 429 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: are standing. 430 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 2: But if I, first of all, I don't agree. Second 431 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 2: of all, I need. 432 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: Second, we need a we need a howard like a poll. 433 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 1: Do you or do you not think it's important to 434 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: acknowledge a human being? 435 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 2: I do but what is my acknowledgment is different from yours. 436 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 2: So sometimes like just a hand on the back and 437 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: say like how are you? 438 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: Man? 439 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: Is how I say hi to somebody, and then I 440 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: prove my worth as a good friend or good brothers 441 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: you've described through time and like I just don't want 442 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 2: to make small talk with like certain people. 443 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: Okay, cool, I think and tell me to. 444 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 2: Do like perform more like I'm some kind of like 445 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 2: a trick animal no repel. 446 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: Fare, minimum of a human decency is not an animal. 447 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: It is just literally me as as as a good 448 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: brother you are to me and a good friend you. 449 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: Are to people that are in your life, in your circle, 450 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: but you sometimes have a hard time like in social situations. 451 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: But because it just takes me a minute, okay, so 452 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: just like allow that to happen. Like look at my 453 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 2: relationship with your friend Simone. My relationship with your friend 454 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: Simone was so awkward and strange because she's probably a 455 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 2: little like me and we would just like not be 456 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 2: nice to each other. And now we're friends. 457 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that for you guys, and. 458 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 2: It just took us what it took. 459 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: Okay, Well I'll thank you. I will definitely take note 460 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: of that. 461 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 2: My relationship with Rob, Yeah, it's better than it's ever been. 462 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are close. 463 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's my brother in law. I love him. 464 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: He's the best. 465 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 466 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: Well yeah, But like I still don't one hundred percent 467 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: understand because I feel like sometimes I don't know that 468 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: you're aware that you come off extremely rude and dismissive, 469 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: and so I'm trying to I do. 470 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 2: I am aware. I don't care as the thing, but. 471 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: How could you not care? Like I don't understand that. 472 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: How could you not care if you're making somebody else 473 00:22:59,440 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: feel bad? 474 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: Because I know I'm not rude and dismissive. 475 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: But if you're making somebody else feel that way, how 476 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: could you? In Like this is when I like literally 477 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: think we're separated at birth in by like no, well, 478 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: I guess separated birth. We're so similar. I don't know 479 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: we're so different because like, if I have hurt someone, 480 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: I want to die And why are you doing that? 481 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:24,360 Speaker 1: What did you do that? 482 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 2: Why not? 483 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: Okay? Moving forward? I think maybe you're on the spectrum. 484 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: I know that I am so like, stop trying to 485 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 2: make me into like mister, like I'm a brother, what's 486 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 2: going on? 487 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: Like? 488 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 2: Cool? Hat like I don't care. Okay, I love your kids, 489 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: I love your family. Okay, great, So you love Lois 490 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: Rhiness Okay, okay, great, she's regimented like me. 491 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: Yeah she is. So it's Hillary. 492 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Hillary. Hillary is some when I've had 493 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: a roller coaster of a relationship with. Now we sit 494 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: in the sauna, we catch up, we talk about things. Great, 495 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 2: I'll just let you be you try it and don't 496 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 2: take it on. And if somebody's annoyed with me, it's 497 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 2: not about you. It's fine. Let them learn the real 498 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: me through multiple interactions where I finally warm up and 499 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: I can look them in the eye and say hello 500 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 2: in a normal way. 501 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: Okay, just take me a second. I thank you so much. 502 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: I'm I don't want to be an asshole. Same wrestler 503 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 2: has this experience with me too, and like. 504 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: Sam Wrestler and I are similar in some ways very yeah, 505 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: so we both But do you think that, like at 506 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: any point are you like, Wow, this is gonna make 507 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,959 Speaker 1: my sister or Sam, who's your one of your very 508 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: best friends, feel uncomfortable. So I'll just like do something 509 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: out of my own comfort zone for that. 510 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 2: I do just by saying hello, even in the most 511 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 2: of it. 512 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: Saying hello to somebody that is out of your comfort zone. 513 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: You are a sick human being. 514 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: But guess who married Sam Guess who she chose to marry. 515 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 2: Marry her when she married Jason Borg. You so clearly 516 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 2: saying not being nice to her ex boyfriend who laughed 517 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: so loud that I couldn't even begin to describe it 518 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 2: is not a big issue. 519 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,239 Speaker 1: Okay, Well you know what, Max, I'm gonna try it out. 520 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be one you matter, I really say hello 521 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 2: to Okay, I say hello. I say hello to the 522 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: ones who matter. 523 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: That yat take that. That is that is the that 524 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: is the little SoundBite of this. I can't. 525 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 2: Let's get into it, like, let's talk about real stuff. 526 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: Are you seeing a therapist right now? 527 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: Yes? 528 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: Okay? Who is it? 529 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 2: A great one named doctor Emily Cavell who's really helped me? 530 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 2: Oh right right, my first therapist who's incredibly not my. 531 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: First therapist any talking about studs. 532 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: Thirty if no pri stuts was a doc named lou Katzman. 533 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: Where is he? 534 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 2: He changed my life? It's a she and she's dead. 535 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 2: Shame on you. And she was one of the most 536 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 2: important people to me of all time m hm. And 537 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,239 Speaker 2: she passed. And then I saw Phil Stutts, who I 538 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 2: love and I still call when I'm in a GM 539 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 2: about stuff. And I have all my note cards and 540 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: I bring my note cards with me everywhere. 541 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: You sent me to like one of Stutts's proteges ones 542 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: to go well, No, it was the craziest experience I've 543 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: ever had. That's what she was, drying mountains on a 544 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: piece of paper. Yes, that is a tool, right. 545 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 2: Stut's saved my life and really worked for me and 546 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: was one of the greatest gifts that one of my 547 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 2: best friends sent me there. And I see now another 548 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 2: kind of more day to day therapist. I am to 549 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 2: see her in case you forgot doctor Cavell. You didn't see. 550 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: I absolutely saw her when my doctor was sick. Oh yeah, 551 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: and I was referred to her. 552 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: I love her. She's very helpful to me and like 553 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 2: very empathetic and really actually cried when I told her 554 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: about my dog dying. This is where we need to 555 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: get to. Yeah, this is how it happens. This is real. 556 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: We're getting real right now. You think I get special privileges, 557 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: You think everything I do is whatever you because I'm 558 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: easy because I'm a delight because I say hello to 559 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 2: the people I love. 560 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: I am easy, I am a delay. 561 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 2: You're not easy. You are many things, but you're not easy. 562 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: Oh, you want to talk about favoritism, Dad's going to 563 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: come in here? Great, Like, who cares Dad's gonna come 564 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: when we talk about favoritism, because we. 565 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 2: Did talk about that about so Hamlet, your lack of 566 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 2: empathy for Hamlet was because Hamlet represents I. 567 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: Do have a hard time sometimes with Rob tells me 568 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: I'm not empathetic to him as well. There are certain 569 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: I think people that I feel the safest with. Sometimes 570 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: I don't know, like I have like a block sometimes 571 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: of empathy. 572 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 2: But you believe, what we're not talking about with Hamlet 573 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: was that mother put her obsession with me onto the dog. 574 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: There is a difference, if we're going to be honest, 575 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: there was a huge difference in the way that we 576 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: were treated. Granted, we both had beautiful, wonderful, amazing childhoods. 577 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: We are so fucking lucky beyond, but there was a 578 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: huge difference. You could it was never the same, Like 579 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,879 Speaker 1: you could do something and I could do something, and 580 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: I would get in trouble for it, and you wouldn't. 581 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: Mom like you hates feeling needy. Unfortunately, children sometimes are 582 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: a little needy. You for some reason, didn't trigger that 583 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: in her, So it was a much easier relationship. It 584 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: was very difficult for any. 585 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: Others, and daughters is a complicated thing. 586 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: I think that that's bullshit. Actually really yeah, And I 587 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: don't think that that's I think that it depends. I 588 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: think like people are like, oh, well, mothers and you know, 589 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: mothers and sons and daughter. I think that that's bullshit. 590 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 2: What if I was just cuter and funnier, Like what if? 591 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 2: Like what if I don't know. I look at pictures 592 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: of you, and I'm like, she was so cute and 593 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: sweet and funny and nurturing, and she wanted to be 594 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 2: a teacher. She helped the stewardesses like ye about coke. 595 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: But like, maybe I was that cute and funny. 596 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I have three kids, and I have one of 597 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: my children who's definitely like a little bit more trying 598 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: in many ways, and it takes. 599 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 2: A lot more out of me. Do you have a favorite? 600 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,320 Speaker 1: No, I don't. I love them each for so many 601 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: of the same reasons and so many different reasons, and 602 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: I find and you will see this. 603 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: When you came and liking my next child, I. 604 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: Thought the same thing, and then it's like, I don't 605 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: when I started having when after I had Ace and 606 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: I was gonna have Jewels and Gus. Actually, when the 607 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: director at the preschool that I worked at forever told 608 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: me how to explain it, and she was like, it's 609 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: not that you're hurt, you know. It's not that you 610 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: have to split time. It's not that you have to 611 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: split your heart in half. Your heart just gets bigger. 612 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: And it's so true. It's like lighting a candle. One 613 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: candle lights all the other candles, you know, like it's interesting. 614 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: Because I actually was very concerned that I would not 615 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 2: like Frankie as much as I liked Hamlet. And the 616 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 2: day just went into labor, I was crying, sobbing in 617 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: the car going to have dinner with Margaret White Spin 618 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 2: and armand whitespin about that change, and I ended up 619 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 2: the next day she was born. I never a Hamlet, 620 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: never slept in our house again, and I moved on 621 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: very quickly. 622 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: But you were really sad when Hamlet died, even though 623 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: he never in your house again. 624 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 2: And heartbroken. Yeah, so I'm. 625 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: Sure that I'm happy him was stead. 626 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: It's made my life a lot more complicated. Frankie still 627 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 2: believes that he's on a farm and that she's going 628 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 2: to go see him hard, but it has made my 629 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 2: life like there is not I wouldn't say. I would say, like, 630 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: there's not that same experience of a loaded gun being 631 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: in the house that there used to be, right even. 632 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: Though, but by the way, I think that you as 633 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: a parent have to make all of your children feel 634 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: equally respected and equally valued, and sometimes your needs outweighed 635 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: the needs of the other people in the home. 636 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 2: Is it possible that I had less needs? 637 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: No, you have a tremendous amount of needs. Really, max, If. 638 00:30:53,440 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: You really, I get go on, so, like, what are 639 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: my needs? 640 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: You just like it's like if you want to take 641 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: a bath in mom's bath. 642 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 2: All I want to do is all I want to 643 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: do is take a bath in my mom's bath and 644 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: work out in the morning. Is that too much to add? 645 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 2: That's what I want. I would live in this house 646 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 2: if I could. If we were in Italy, I would 647 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: live If we were Italians, I would live in this house. 648 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 2: I would bring a little more room for the first 649 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 2: of my life. I'm kind of thinking like maybe I 650 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: don't want to be here anymore. But up until a 651 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: year ago, I would have happily you did house like you. 652 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: Did live here because you were filming and you rented 653 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: out your house and you did it. 654 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 2: But we were only here for little spurts at a 655 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 2: time because we were in New York for the whole year. 656 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: But I would still live in this house if I could, 657 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 2: I know, and very very never, I've never taken a 658 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: bath as good as the bath in mom's bathtub, the 659 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 2: way she washes my hair. It's here's what I love 660 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: a bath. I love a couple of things. I love 661 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 2: that there's a television there. I love the depth of it. 662 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: I love that I know how to use the machine 663 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: perfectly and get it just the right scalding. 664 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: Tempchine the bath. 665 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 2: I like to get into a bath so hot that 666 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: I can only get in a tiny bit at a time. 667 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: I don't like to constantly refill it. Okay, I like 668 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 2: to watch sports in the bath. 669 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. And this feels like really important 670 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: information to have. I'm so great. 671 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 2: I like to wear her robes. 672 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: You do you wear her robes? 673 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 2: I will tell you a secret. I slept here recently 674 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 2: when Mom wasn't feeling well. Yeah, and I did not 675 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: have It was very cold in the house, yeah, because 676 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 2: mother likes it arctic arctic chill, because she's an Arctic fox. 677 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: And I couldn't find something asleep, and I don't have 678 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 2: clothes here, and so I slept in one of mother's 679 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 2: night shirts. 680 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: Swear to god, did you doctor doctor Emilikavell about it? 681 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 2: No, I don't think it's weird. I felt so. First 682 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 2: of all, men slept in night shirts all the time 683 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 2: in the Middle Age so they could use their bed. 684 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so now we understand you're also a historian. 685 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 2: And I slept in a Yes, that's my that's my soliloquy, 686 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: that history. 687 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: Historian, dog trainer, therapist. 688 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: And I continuer, Yeah, and it was one of the 689 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 2: best sleeps of my life. 690 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 1: Could get some. Mom gets them from London. 691 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 2: I've never been able to. 692 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure she'll give you them, moll. 693 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 2: I don't even wear underwear. It's very uncomfortable. 694 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. 695 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: And so I was sleeping in this night sure was perfect. 696 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you so much. You have been an excellent guest. 697 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: It's time to be all done now, So thank you 698 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: so much. 699 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 2: Speaking about favoritism, here's Dad. Oh my god, Dad, Thank you. 700 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: So much for joining us for this episode of What 701 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: in the Winkler? 702 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 2: Tell a friend in the Winkler? 703 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: What in the Winkler? What in the Winkler? Thank you 704 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: so much for joining us.