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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio. Hello everyone,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of Too Much Information, the

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Speaker 1: show that brings you the little known details, behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes history behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows, and more.

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Speaker 1: We are your ten men of trivia, your abusive studio

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Speaker 1: heads of pop culture hagiography. You're friends of Dorothy in

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Speaker 1: a very literal sense. What we lack in brains and courage,

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Speaker 1: we make up four in heart. I used all my

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Speaker 1: puns last week because I didn't know this was going

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Speaker 1: to be a two furs, so I'm really struggling. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jordan Runtagg and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Alex Heigel, and I also used up my ponds,

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Speaker 2: but I also don't make up for it my lack

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Speaker 2: of brains. Encourage with heart until you don't speak for me. Okay,

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Speaker 2: of those three wake up four with anger. Okay, so

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Speaker 2: you're wickedwy to the west.

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Speaker 1: Then okay, so you channel that that energy? Yes, okay, yes, Well, folks,

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Speaker 1: today we are back for round two and our epic

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Speaker 1: deep dive into the most seen movie of all time.

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Speaker 1: It's been estimated that over a billion people have seen

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Speaker 1: this thing, so let's hope that at least two percent

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Speaker 1: of those tune into this episode, our ad sponsors will

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Speaker 1: be very happy. I'm talking about The Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 1: It was one of four hundred and fifty six feature

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Speaker 1: films made in nineteen thirty nine, but it's arguably the

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Speaker 1: one with the greatest cultural legacy, and we're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out exactly why that is. Last week we focused

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Speaker 1: on the background and cast of this film, and this

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Speaker 1: week we'll focus on the production and onset stories. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: the most wondrous thing about The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

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Speaker 1: is that no one died that we know of.

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Speaker 2: I could see Louis B. Mayer having hushed some things up. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I guess it depends on what

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Speaker 2: your definition of person was for like a nineteen thirties

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Speaker 2: movie studio. I feel like at least some animals died.

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Speaker 2: What do you think.

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Speaker 1: I know, at the beginning of last episode, you were

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Speaker 1: kind of messo messo on the Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 2: But did last week's episode change re view of the

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Speaker 2: film at all?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: I mean I'm mint to mento on a concept of

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Speaker 2: Oz is like a fantastical world. I don't really have

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Speaker 2: any grudge against the movie. I think it's you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like I said last week, it's like air, you know,

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Speaker 2: hold a grudge against something that just has always been

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Speaker 2: a part of your life. And sure there's no signs

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Speaker 2: of stopping just in American culture. I mean, I guess

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Speaker 2: soon like we're not going to have American culture anymore.

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Speaker 2: So let's just be TikTok. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll see if we get access to it in the wastelands.

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Speaker 1: You know, I am curious if the tradition of watching

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Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz together as a family has endured

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Speaker 1: into the Zoomer generation. I know, I sound like an

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Speaker 1: old man and the old man that I have sort

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Speaker 1: of always been right now, But I'm curious, I almost yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, curious about what if the tradition of

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Speaker 1: watching this movie together as a family is transcended into

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Speaker 1: the generation below us the Zoomer.

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Speaker 2: Oh definitely not. No, I don't think so. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine so, I mean, because like, first of all,

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Speaker 2: they don't know what cable is. So like the idea

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Speaker 2: of just like something being broadcast is alien. Why the

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Speaker 2: air it anymore?

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Speaker 1: But I just mean like putting it on and gathering

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Speaker 1: gathering folks around the family screen as opposed to the

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Speaker 1: little mini personal screens and watching something together.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know. My family is in that

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Speaker 2: cycle where the only thing that's on in family gatherings

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Speaker 2: is something for the kids. It's bluey, Yeah, it was

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Speaker 2: blue last time around.

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Speaker 1: It's always blue. It is always blue. Should we do

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Speaker 1: a blue episode?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I know about Blue is that there

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Speaker 1: was some episode where they were moving that made parents cry.

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Speaker 2: I mean, dude, everything makes everyone cry. It's twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: What do you want?

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Speaker 1: Music? TV Lancening, the show so fun, the co host is.

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Speaker 2: Seconds and none. I mean, as long as we keep

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Speaker 2: up the energy of somebody dying where you only really

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Speaker 2: have up to go, I'll trust me.

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Speaker 1: There's every page there's there's somebody's either being in physical

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Speaker 1: harm or emotional harm.

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Speaker 2: Good. Yeah, that's how the best movies are made. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not the best arts made. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I and even Michelangelo was like on his back, high

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Speaker 1: up there and probably in danger of falling at any second.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah that sounds right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess on that note, we should dive

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Speaker 1: back into the wondrous world of Oz. You know what

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Speaker 1: this is again gonna be probably in the running for

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Speaker 1: one of the longest episodes we've ever done, So no

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Speaker 1: fact teasers for you. Here's everything else you didn't know

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Speaker 1: about The Wizard of Oz. Folks, Welcome to the Yellow

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Speaker 1: to Hell. I call this section one last bomb, a

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Speaker 1: final failure for the road. I thought we were done

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Speaker 1: with them last episode, but in discussing the nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: nine MGM film adaptation The Wizard of Oz, we have

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Speaker 1: to briefly return once again to the epic failures of

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Speaker 1: our friend L. Frank Baum, the lovable loser who wrote

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Speaker 1: the original novel a rare triumph amid a lifetime of

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Speaker 1: lurching from one poorly thought out scheme to the next.

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Speaker 2: Following the gargantuan.

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Speaker 1: Sales of the book and the hit Broadway version of

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Speaker 1: Oz at the turn of the century, Bam was emboldened

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Speaker 1: to take an even bigger creative swing, which restored his

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Speaker 1: loserdom status. Allow me to quote directly once again from

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Speaker 1: his laugh out loud Wikipedia page. One of Baum's worst

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Speaker 1: financial endeavors was his nineteen oh eight fairy log and

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Speaker 1: radio plays, which combined a slide show film and live

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Speaker 1: actors with a lecture by bomb as if you were

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Speaker 1: giving a travelog to Oz. I have to say multimedia

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Speaker 1: venture is pretty innovative. But Bam, getting back to the

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Speaker 1: quote from the Wikipedia page, ran into trouble and could

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Speaker 1: not pay his debts to the company who produced the films.

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Speaker 1: He did not get back to a stable financial situation

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Speaker 1: for several years after he sold the royalty rights to

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Speaker 1: many of his earlier works, including The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 1: By all accounts that I read, he died exhausted and

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Speaker 1: broke of a stroke in nineteen nineteen at the age

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Speaker 1: of sixty two. But Baum's son, who presumably had more

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Speaker 1: financial acumen than his father, managed to reacquire the rights

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Speaker 1: to Oz before selling them to producer Samuel Goldwyn in

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Speaker 1: the mid nineteen thirties for seventy five thousand dollars, which

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Speaker 1: was a fair chunk of change. I want to say

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Speaker 1: that was I think something like close to two million

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Speaker 1: at the time. Ultimately, Samuel Goldwyn sold the rights to

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Speaker 1: MGM Mogul Louis B. Mayer in nineteen thirty seven. Higel,

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Speaker 1: I feel like you got to be the one that

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Speaker 1: tell us about Louis B.

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Speaker 2: Mayor. Yeah, we alluded to these who I picture I

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Speaker 2: think when the cigar chumping exec comes in, Yes, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the bee stands for bastard. Whatever Uncle Louis wanted, Uncle

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Speaker 2: Louie got.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He was the head of MGM, which is the time,

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Speaker 2: the biggest studio in Hollywood, where as the saying went,

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Speaker 2: there were more stars than in the heavens. They were

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Speaker 2: open twenty four hours a day, six days a week,

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Speaker 2: and Mayor wanted them to produce a new movie every

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Speaker 2: nine days. And for that he made one point three

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Speaker 2: million dollars in those days, money which today is a

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Speaker 2: little bit closer to twenty seven million, five hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty two thousand, seven hundred and seventy eight dollars, which

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Speaker 2: seems low. Actually, what does your average exec make? That

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Speaker 2: that's like ten percent of the gross on some of

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Speaker 2: these pieces that they come out with.

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Speaker 1: Sure, but at the time he was the highest paid

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Speaker 1: man in America.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe twenty seven million, that's really not that much.

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Speaker 1: I think it was like that's the highest salary as

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Speaker 1: opposed to like, I own this railroad and I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna take whatever it makes.

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Speaker 2: Like you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was the first person that earned a

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Speaker 1: million dollar salary.

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Speaker 2: Okay, sure, man, that is just crazy. I know I

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Speaker 2: had that thought too, but he seven million is like,

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Speaker 2: you're poor by ninety nine percent standards. Oh you're not

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Speaker 2: even a triple figure millionaire. The line around Hollywood anyway

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Speaker 2: was LB doesn't make movies, he makes contracts. And this

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Speaker 2: is that era when they were signing people like William Faulkner,

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Speaker 2: f Scott Fitzgerald and Dashiel Hammett as Raiders, which is depressing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it is, but it's wonderfully parodied in Barton Fink.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, one of my favorite movies about Hollywood. You know,

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Speaker 2: he was an interesting guy. His negotiating tactics included histrionics

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Speaker 2: on on both sides of the emotional spectrum. He's like

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Speaker 2: the mom from the Sopranos. Yeah. One person would would say,

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Speaker 2: you never won an argument with mister Meyer. If you're

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Speaker 2: winning and he knew you were winning, he would cry

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Speaker 2: and tell you how you were one of the fas,

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Speaker 2: and you would put your arm around him and say

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Speaker 2: it's all right. Papa Mayor was desperate to compete with

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Speaker 2: the world conquering success of Disney's first animated full length

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Speaker 2: feature nineteen thirty sevens Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs,

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Speaker 2: which became the biggest blockbuster ever up to that point.

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Speaker 2: It was also a genuine artistic achievement. Meyer wanted his

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Speaker 2: own fantasy film that bested Disney in scale, technological innovation,

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Speaker 2: and critical prestige, so he turned to his newly minted

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Speaker 2: head of production, thirty eight year old Mervin Leroy, who

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Speaker 2: suggested The Wizard of Oz is also got it. I almost,

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Speaker 2: I almost got it out. Then you had to snicker

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Speaker 2: halfway through. People were named Stupider back then. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: Mervin with a Y, too, liesa with a Z, Mervin

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Speaker 2: with the water the why. Yeah, it's too close to

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Speaker 2: Murkin for me, Murkin Merlin, Yeah, Mervin. Mervin's not a name.

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Speaker 2: Mervin's a name, Mervin, the Martian Stirvin, Mervin. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was Marvin immersion it is. I'm messing with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, how dare you anyway? How dare you do that

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Speaker 1: to me? In front of company?

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Speaker 2: Leroy suggested The Wizard of Oz, and it was itself

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Speaker 2: wildly popular and vaguely similar to Snow White, so Mayor

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Speaker 2: greenlit what was known in studio records as Production ten

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Speaker 2: sixty with a two point eight million dollar budget, was

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Speaker 2: one of the most expensive films ever at the time.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen twenty six is been heard clocked in at three

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Speaker 2: point six million, and Gone with the Wind was about

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Speaker 2: to cross the finish line at four million dollars for

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Speaker 2: a budget, and Leroy was nearly fired for spending so

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Speaker 2: much money. So again though, like what was one and

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Speaker 2: a half million, one point three million a year is

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Speaker 2: equivalent to twenty seven to five today, So four million,

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Speaker 2: fifty million, that's like, so yeah, it's a fifty million

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Speaker 2: dollar budget. Yeah, that's nothing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I know, but but I mean

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Speaker 1: thinking like what houses are worth now, Like it's not

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Speaker 1: a one to one.

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Speaker 2: Thing, No, I know, I'm just saying it's insane to

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Speaker 2: think that, like that was the most expensive movie of

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Speaker 2: all time, and it was like what you would used

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Speaker 2: to make like a mid budget romantic comedy for if

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Speaker 2: both of your leads were making ten mil a picture.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I yeah, I think it's just like there

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Speaker 1: was less to spend money.

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Speaker 2: On when you were making movies.

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Speaker 1: Really, so much of it was in house with like

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Speaker 1: people who were contracted for you know.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, they didn't have to feed you,

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Speaker 2: yeah black or a child or a woman.

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Speaker 1: They certainly didn't have any like safety concerns as we'll see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: intimacy intimacy coordinators back then.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, Leroy was nearly fired for spending so much money, yes,

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Speaker 2: to which I say, good for him. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean it's not his money. Yeah, it's true. He

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Speaker 2: wanted to do it.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to do it real big, and you know

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Speaker 1: what he did, burvon Leroy kind.

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Speaker 2: Of a legend.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything super problematic about him, other

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Speaker 1: than all the crimes against humanity that went on under

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Speaker 1: his wall.

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Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, why don't you read And I'll just

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Speaker 2: look into that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yes, now we're going to talk about the screenwriters. Given

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Speaker 1: my background as a screenwriting major and as of this week,

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Speaker 1: a member of the WGA, I feel like I need

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Speaker 1: to give a little more love to the.

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Speaker 2: Horde of writers who worked on The Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 1: We touched on it briefly last week, but I've seen

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Speaker 1: that they were between twelve and seventeen uncredited writers on

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Speaker 1: this thing.

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Speaker 2: The studio.

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Speaker 1: They had this weird system in place at the time

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Speaker 1: where they would hire multiple writers to work simultaneously, essentially

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Speaker 1: turning it into a competition where the producers would pick

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Speaker 1: and choose the best ideas of the Bunch. And The

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz is kind of a rare instance where

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Speaker 1: writing by committee actually worked. Early contributors included the poet

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Speaker 1: Ogden Nash, whose work I don't believe was included in

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Speaker 1: the final film.

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Speaker 2: We mentioned earlier.

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Speaker 1: This is the era when f Scott Fitzgerald came to Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: so all these you know, literary figures were basically following

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Speaker 1: the money.

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Speaker 2: It's like journalists flocking the podcasting.

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Speaker 1: There was also future Citizen Kane scribe Herman J. Mekowitz,

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Speaker 1: whose big contribution to the film was the transition from

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Speaker 1: black and white to color when Dorothy arrives in Oz.

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Speaker 1: The man who wrote most of what appears on the

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Speaker 1: screen is Nol Langley, who worked on the script for

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Speaker 1: four months. He made the project significantly larger in scope

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Speaker 1: and took some liberties from the original book. A lot

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Speaker 1: of the writers working on this project did this. Historians

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Speaker 1: have offered the opinion that this was less out of

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Speaker 1: ego and more due to the fact that these writers

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Speaker 1: were drunk most of the time. This is not me editorializing.

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Speaker 1: I've read and seen multiple references to this in articles

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Speaker 1: and documentaries. Noel Langley came up with the idea to

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Speaker 1: make the whole story a dream sequence, and also to

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Speaker 1: have the OZ characters have doppelgangers in Kansas. He turned

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Speaker 1: in a draft in June nineteen thirty eight with a

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Speaker 1: big stamp on it that said, do not make changes.

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Speaker 1: I need one of those for some things I write

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Speaker 1: and also just things in my life. The studio predictably

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Speaker 1: neatly made changes. They brought on writers Florence Ryerson and

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Speaker 1: Edgar Allan Woolf, a truly incredible name, to do some

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Speaker 1: punch ups on Langley's draft.

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Speaker 2: And Langley was so mad. How mad was he he.

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Speaker 1: Demanded that producer Mervin Leroy take his name off the film.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they hadn't created Alan Smithy yet.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's the name. When you want your name

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Speaker 1: taken off? They put that as like a joy mesotype.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they messed with your cut so much.

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Speaker 1: He eventually calmed down and allowed his name to be

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Speaker 1: used on the project, but sadly he was not invited

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Speaker 1: to the premiere nol Langley. When he finally viewed the

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Speaker 1: final product, he was not impressed. To put it mildly.

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Speaker 1: I saw it in the cinema Hollywood Boulevard at noon,

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Speaker 1: he later said, the most depressing time and place to

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Speaker 1: see The Wizard of Oz, I have to say. I

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Speaker 1: sat and cried like a bloody child. I thought, this

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Speaker 1: is a year of my life. I loathed the picture.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was dead. I thought it missed the.

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Speaker 2: Boat all the way around.

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Speaker 1: I had to wait for my tears to clear before

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Speaker 1: I went out of the theater. Thankfully, he warmed to

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Speaker 1: the movie when it was released in nineteen forty nine.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly I could see it objectively for the first time,

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Speaker 1: he said, And I thought, it's not a bad picture.

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Speaker 2: Not a bad picture, you know, just a good little band.

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Speaker 1: Langley was ultimately named in the credits, but you know

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Speaker 1: who wasn't the Munchkins. One hundred and twenty four members

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Speaker 1: of munchkin Land were not mentioned by name, but instead

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Speaker 1: we're credited as the singer midgets, as the Munchkins. And

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Speaker 1: you recall they made half of what Toto made for

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Speaker 1: their salary. Yeah, but at least they got a collective

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Speaker 1: star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Louis B. Mayer's on

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Speaker 2: here is like having groped con Judy Garland and some

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Speaker 2: other stuff. But there's almost like the first Google result.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of funny. The first one is the Telegraph

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Speaker 2: the Monster of mgm ah, and then something from a

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Speaker 2: site called Hollywood Essays that just says Louis B. Mayor

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Speaker 2: was no sexual predator. Here is my statement, huh, written

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Speaker 2: by his great niece. Ah, what is her statement? I

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Speaker 2: guess she writes that Judy Garland made these claims in

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Speaker 2: a biography that was never published.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll talk about that. She had just the

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Speaker 1: tapes of herself at someone godly hour pilled up out

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Speaker 1: of her mind that she was going to use as

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Speaker 1: a memoir.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then now they're all on YouTube. Yeah. So

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Speaker 2: she recanted the thing about supposedly recanted the thing about

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Speaker 2: Mayor groping her. But yeah, the bit was that he

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Speaker 2: would show her where to sing from and post over

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Speaker 2: her left breast. Yeah. Yeah, and then he fired her

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Speaker 2: on summer stock because of her she was just not

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Speaker 2: showing up to work.

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm kind of with him on that she

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Speaker 1: was a no show and I think on a couple movies.

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Speaker 1: And at that point, was that when they terminated her

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Speaker 1: contract with MGM.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Mean granted she was strying out on the pills that

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Speaker 1: they gave her. Yes, I say that they were just

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Speaker 1: sure force feeding her.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean he also, you know, covered up Clark

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Speaker 2: Gable killing someone while drunk driving. Wow, this is interesting.

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Speaker 2: There's a story in Vanity Fair that a dancer named

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Speaker 2: Patricia Douglas had been raped at a wild MGM party

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Speaker 2: thrown by Louis B. Mayer in nineteen thirty seven, and

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Speaker 2: instead of bartering for her silence, Douglas went public and

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Speaker 2: filed a lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: She's one of the first people to come forward after

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Speaker 1: experiencing sexual assault in the film industry, leading to a

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Speaker 1: massive scandal that MGM buried by initiating a smear campaign

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Speaker 1: against Douglas and by buying off potential prosecution witnesses. She

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Speaker 1: left the industry after her rape, but appeared on camera

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Speaker 1: sixty five years later after having been contacted by biographer

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Speaker 1: David Sten who discovered that she was still alive. While

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Speaker 1: investigating the story of the nineteen thirty seven rape and

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Speaker 1: cover up. I mean it's the first me too story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jesus Christ, that is really crazy. Wow. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: Eddie Mannix is involved in this, that fix her. I

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Speaker 2: don't know Eddie Mannix. He was just like the guy

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Speaker 2: who ran around and got women abortions and collected stars

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Speaker 2: to dry out. Wow. Okay, this was all thoroughly depressing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, one of Judy Garland's earliest I can't

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Speaker 1: even call it gigs, but she was kind of famous

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Speaker 1: for doing house call performances for older male stars.

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Speaker 2: In Hollywood when she was like fourteen.

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Speaker 1: She sang a version of You Made Me Love You

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Speaker 1: at Clark Gables House when she was like fourteen, and

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Speaker 1: he came over and kissed her afterwards.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It was just something weird.

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Speaker 1: About like fourteen year old singing like torch songs and

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Speaker 1: nightclub jazz ballads at someone like Clark Gables House. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm old fashioned. Esther Ralston, that name sounds familiar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. She was one of those women who didn't make

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Speaker 2: the transition from silence to talkies, and she alleged that

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Speaker 2: her career was sabotaged by Mayor when she refused to

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Speaker 2: sleep with him. Carrie Beauchamp, author of a book about

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Speaker 2: women in early Hollywood, said Luiby Mayor chased actress Gene

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Speaker 2: Howard around the room when she said no way, and

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Speaker 2: went off and married Charles K. Feldman. The agent. Mayor

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Speaker 2: banned Charlie from the lot and wouldn't allow Feldman's clients

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Speaker 2: to work at MGM for a long time afterwards. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I guess he was just sort

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Speaker 2: of a general piece of Yeah, but they didn't really

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Speaker 2: pin too too much on him.

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Speaker 1: His Wikipedia page, it's an entire section that's under the

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Speaker 1: heading being a father figure. Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah. Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: Taylor called him a monster, which ooh.

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Speaker 2: Takes one to no one. Okay, well this is pretty depressing.

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Speaker 2: Where were we directors?

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Speaker 1: Yes, we mentioned the laundry list of writers who worked

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Speaker 1: on was It of Oz, And unusually there was a

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Speaker 1: laundry list of directors who were done this as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the film cycle through a truly insane number of directors. Basically,

391
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,080
Speaker 2: this picture was like made in varying stages of completion

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Speaker 2: before being scrapped. Because they had all these writers and

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Speaker 2: all these directors who turned in visions and then were

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Speaker 2: like no. Producer Marvin Leroy initially wanted to direct the

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Speaker 2: picture himself, but Louis B. Mayer convinced him that this

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Speaker 2: was a terrible idea and he'd likely never know a

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Speaker 2: moment of peace for the better part of a year. Instead,

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Speaker 2: the producer hired Norman Taurog, who shot test footage before

399
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Speaker 2: getting the boot, and his tenure were so brief that

400
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Speaker 2: in later years he claimed he had no memory of

401
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Speaker 2: working on the film.

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Speaker 1: It's because we'd be mayor did the men in black

403
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Speaker 1: thing to him?

404
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 2: Get out of here? Yeah? So four other people then

405
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Speaker 2: came through. And this is interesting because so the log

406
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Speaker 2: line about this era of Hollywood is that like directors

407
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 2: were just there to point the camera right, because like

408
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: the studio dictated everything else about the picture. And then

409
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 2: the log line is that you know, in the dun

410
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Speaker 2: dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dunt. During

411
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Speaker 2: the turbulent sixties, no, a bunch of the first generation

412
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Speaker 2: of usc film brats came out, and that's where you

413
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Speaker 2: get the easy rider raising bulls generation, right, and they

414
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Speaker 2: that's where you got like the mold of the American

415
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 2: filmmaker switching over to more European style auteur stuff rather

416
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Speaker 2: than being completely just a soft puppet of the studio.

417
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Speaker 2: I don't know which came first.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the studio declined and then suddenly

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Speaker 1: you had kids with cameras that were out making their

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Speaker 1: vision and you had all these American auteurs, or if

421
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Speaker 1: it started to decline because that became the style and

422
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Speaker 1: it was also cheaper than having this gargantuine studio with

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Speaker 1: ye you know, paying salaries to a million different people.

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Speaker 2: I don't know which. Well, the sixties were a turbulent time, Jordan,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you've know if you know that,

426
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: but it's crazy no, because it's gone. It's come back

427
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Speaker 2: around now because like the log line for all the

428
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 2: Marvel things is that, like they would, you know, all

429
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Speaker 2: the directors get a script and it's like, okay, your

430
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Speaker 2: your big action sequence is here and here and here,

431
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Speaker 2: and that's already been being pre visualized for the past

432
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Speaker 2: eight months, so you have no say in that, and

433
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Speaker 2: whatever you do is still going to look exactly the

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Speaker 2: same as the last three of these. So and I

435
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,360
Speaker 2: guess even more now that like Netflix, is and Amazon

436
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Speaker 2: are doing all this original content. I mean, who directed

437
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: the Rings of Power? I don't even know what the

438
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,159
Speaker 2: Rings of Power are?

439
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: I mean I subscribe to the Martin Scorsese like these

440
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: Marvel movies are like theme.

441
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 2: Park rides, like I don't, I don't know. Let's not

442
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 2: get in there because people will have strong, strong opinions

443
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 2: about that. Anyway. So cast and crew were company men.

444
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 2: They're paid weekly over course of years for their contracts,

445
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,040
Speaker 2: and they also just had a little control over choosing

446
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 2: which roles they were you going to do next? Directors

447
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: were assigned to films and kind of an autocratic fashion,

448
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: and so on and so forth. So when looking for

449
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 2: a director, these studios and the producers generally wanted someone

450
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: who could just follow orders. And this would explained by

451
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 2: the next director in line for Wizard of Oz, which

452
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 2: generally described as what you write a limp fish, that's

453
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 2: what I. R MGM had a better phrase for him,

454
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: proficient to the point of boredom. That so mean it's good. Though.

455
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 2: He was known for his efficiency, bringing in pictures on

456
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: time and under budget. Shut the train run on time.

457
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 2: Orders sound like anyone we know, just thanks to a

458
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: little little known filmmaking technique he used called only giving

459
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:34,360
Speaker 2: them one take for a shot. Wizard of Ozy story,

460
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 2: A little little hack for you there. Unless they screw up,

461
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: just do one. Yeah, come on, these new Hollywood brats

462
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: with their one hundred and thirty eight takes. Wizard of

463
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: Oz history and Algee Harmetz would later write in her

464
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: book The Making of the Wizard of Oz. By nineteen

465
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 2: seventy six, Mervin Leroy could not remember why he chose

466
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 2: Richard Thorpe to direct The Wizard of Oz. Nor does

467
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: Thorpe know why he was chosen. Presumably he had a

468
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: resting bpm of somewhere between eighty and one and could

469
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: keep his eyes open. I guess anyway, he was on.

470
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 2: He was on production for two weeks before it was

471
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 2: delayed when the original tin man Buddy Ebsen inhaled quite

472
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 2: a large quantity of powdered Confectioner's Great Aluminum and nearly died. Yes,

473
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 2: he almost died. Producer Mervyn Laurie took this time off

474
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 2: to review the dailies that his director had shot and

475
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: decided that he hated them. Thorpe had made some interesting choices.

476
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: Admittedly he wanted Judy Garland's Dorothy to have a blonde

477
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 2: teuseled hairstyle, wear tons of baby doll makeup and act

478
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 2: like a cartoon child.

479
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: So Shirley Temple they were going to cast Shirley Temple

480
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: couldn't get her, so they basically dressed her up as

481
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: Shirley Temple.

482
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just thinking about Betty Davis and whatever

483
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 2: happened to baby Jane. Oh, I guess is obviously supposed

484
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 2: to be like a Shirley Temple character. Oh wow, yeah,

485
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: I mean yes, yes, And and you know, admittedly Thorpe

486
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: might have gotten this from John Arneil's original drawings for

487
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: the OZ books, or as you mentioned, for the fact

488
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: that the studio originally wanted Shirley Temple. So he was

489
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: kicked off after two weeks, and then he went to

490
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: Palm Spring sustled off. Then they just put him on

491
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 2: a one way. They got him a one way. They

492
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: have trains there back in the day or rose.

493
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: It's just those like up and down push cut things

494
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 1: on the train. He had like a bindle and yes, exactly,

495
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: here's your thing. Sad walking away music from Incredible Hulk played. No.

496
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 2: The reason he was sent there was hilarious.

497
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: The studio pr director sent him out there because reporters

498
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: wanted to interview him because the story that they gave

499
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: him to like restore his dignity was like, Oh no,

500
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: he came down with a terrible case pneumonia. We got

501
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 1: to press on with another director.

502
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: Get out of town, so nobody talks to you.

503
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 1: Oh no, he's recuperating in Palm Spring.

504
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 2: Sorry, he went to live on a farm up state.

505
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: He returned to his home planet. Mervin Luri would later say,

506
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: wonderful guy Dick Thorpe. Was he related to Jim Thorpe?

507
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: I was thinking that I don't know of Pennsylvania fame.

508
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 2: He was a wonderful guy, Dick Thorpe. He made some

509
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: fine pictures. But to make a fairy story is a

510
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: different kind of thing entirely. I'm sure it is. Mervin,

511
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: and I don't think you get to call them that.

512
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: She didn't quite understand the story. He just didn't have

513
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 2: the warmth or the feeling to make a fairy story.

514
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 2: You have to think like a kid. None of the

515
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: footage that Thorpe, allegedly brother of Jim, appears in a film.

516
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 2: Did you find out anything about looks like they're not related.

517
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: Mm bummer. Next up, George Kukoor Cuker Qukore Kukore. I

518
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 2: don't know, it's a Sunday, dude, I'm not sending my best.

519
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 2: Legend Legendary director George Kukor, who later directed Judy Garland

520
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: in A Star Is Born and won an Oscar for

521
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 2: My Fair Lady, stepped in as a consultant for three

522
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: days while they searched for someone permanent. I mean that

523
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 2: would have been enough to film like a third of

524
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: the film, right, any other film? Yeah? Yeah. Kukor was

525
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 2: already committed to shoot a little picture that you might

526
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 2: be familiar with called Gone with the Wind. You yeah,

527
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: you self proclaimed syniste, though nothing was shot during this period. Kukor,

528
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: a director who was known to quote work well with women,

529
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: which you know, no matter how we slice it, that

530
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: phrase in the thirties meant something gross.

531
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not the as gross way. It's a it's

532
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: a different kind of euphemism.

533
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I see what you're I see what He got.

534
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: Great performances on film out of women, Greta Garbo, Captain, Hepburn.

535
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 2: He used women artistically, did yeah? Uh? Anyway, on that

536
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: three days, he made a number of changes. He added

537
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 2: bows to the ruby slippers, he toned down the sets backdrops,

538
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: he made Margaret Hamilton's makeup more intense, and he suggested

539
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: that they cast Jack Hayley's The Tin Man Wants Buddy

540
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: Ebsen was choking to death in his own lungs on

541
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: again very fine heavy metals. Most importantly, he was instrumental

542
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: in defining Dorothy's now iconic look. He opted to remove

543
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 2: the blonde wig and baby doll makeup and instructed Judy

544
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 2: Garland to just be herself, her little pill addled self.

545
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: He wanted her to be as down to earth as possible,

546
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 2: to serve as counterpoint to the fantasy of OZ, and

547
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: the actors around her were all making bold choices, so

548
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: he wanted her naturalism to be a counterpoint. As Garland

549
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: biographer Gerald Clark wrote in his book Get Happy, Kukor

550
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: instantly saw where Thorpe had gone wrong. His Oz was

551
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 2: not believable. He had invested so much effort in making

552
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 2: Judy look pretty, for example, that she looked not like

553
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: a simple farm girl from Kansas, but a Hollywood starlet

554
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: masquerading as a simple farm girl. With heavy makeup and

555
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: long blonde hair. Even her acting seemed artificial to kuk Or,

556
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: as if she had instructed to be cute to act,

557
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: as he described it, in a fairy tale way, which

558
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: does make sense. Yes. Next up we have Victor Fleming,

559
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 2: who is something of an odd choice for this female

560
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: led fantasy film aimed at children. Fleming was a big, rough,

561
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: rough and tough sort of man's man, you know, the

562
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: kind where they're Sternham and Gut were very large, but

563
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: they had weak chest and shoulders. He would He liked

564
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 2: to bike and go big game hunting with his friend

565
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: Clark Gable. Fleming would shoot wildcats out in the Hollywood

566
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 2: Hills and line their carcasses up outside the door of

567
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: his home. He once saw ali cat trying to mate

568
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 2: with their family cat and shot the cat dead from

569
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty feet away. It's kind of impressive.

570
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: He was best friends with John Wayne, with whom he'd

571
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: later form an anti communist organization, and Fleming was also

572
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: a Nazi sympathizer and opposed America from entering World War Two.

573
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: So there was that. But in his past Fleming had

574
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: directed Clark Gable and Gary Cooper and Westerns, but he

575
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: was eager to make a film that his daughters could see.

576
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: I made The Wizard of Oz because I wanted my

577
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: two little girls to see a picture that searched for

578
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 2: beautiful and decency and sweetness in love in the world.

579
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: He said. His professional mount mantra was that obstacles made

580
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 2: for better pictures, and he would soon second guess this,

581
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: as he would later say that The Wizard of Oz

582
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 2: was the most problematic movie he'd ever made.

583
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: Almost as problematic as his politics.

584
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah it's weird that you would say that about a

585
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: movie and not about the Nazis. Yeah, yeah, it is weird,

586
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: isn't at Haigel Fleming handled most of the footage that

587
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 2: you see in the film, including the most notably the

588
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: technicolor sequences. The men on set liked him, and the

589
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: women not so much. So. There was another incredibly named

590
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 2: man coming in, King Vidoor, King Vidor. That's so close

591
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 2: to the Godzilla villain, King Guidora. I think it's King Vidor.

592
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: Another director will switch up. Wasn't even necessarily tied to

593
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: the Wizard of Oz. It was tied to Gone with

594
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 2: the Wind. Clark Gable, the lead of that film, had

595
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: fallen out with director George Kukor, who, as you recall,

596
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: was more of a quote women's director quote and not

597
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: exactly in line with Gable's brand of drunk driving, dick

598
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 2: swinging machismo, and the Star threatened to walk unless his

599
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: good buddy, Victor the cat killing Nazi Fleming was brought

600
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: on to complete that picture. So weeks before its completion,

601
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 2: Fleming departed the Land of Oz, though he would come

602
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 2: back at nights bearing a pistol to assist with editing.

603
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: No, that was just my lock on the door and

604
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: asked to be shown papers.

605
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we don't actually know that he had

606
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: he had a gun on him when he was helping

607
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: with the editing. We can probably assume. But this ended

608
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 2: up working out well for Victor Fleming. Since Gone with

609
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 2: the Wind was a it was the longest. It had

610
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: the most biggest oscar sweep until Hill like The Return

611
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: of the King or Silence of the Lambs. We should

612
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: know this.

613
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: I thought it was large boat. I thought it was Titanic.

614
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: Oh, it might have been large boat. Yeah yeah, yeah.

615
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: So King Vidor was brought on for about two and

616
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: a half weeks to lay waste Tokyo. I'm sorry, I

617
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: mean finish the movie. His contributions were more or less

618
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: just the black and white sequences which were shot last,

619
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: including the over the Rainbow scene. Vidor was a classy

620
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: guy who downplayed his contributions to OZ while Victor Fleming

621
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: was alive in an effort to preserve his dignity. And

622
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: then Fleming died of a heart attack in nineteen forty nine,

623
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: which did give Vidor the next thirty years to gloat

624
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: with impunity. Shooting for Wizard of Oz begins in October

625
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight. A week in we have our first

626
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: OSHA violation, which didn't exist then, and did it? Or

627
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: that just doesn't exist now, so it doesn't exist now,

628
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: or then I don't like it existed. Then there was

629
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: a brief middle period of American life when your employer

630
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: couldn't kill you, and it's gone now. Anyway. A light

631
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: on the set exploded, sending sparks showering down on Garland

632
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: and Ray Bulger, whose costume was made out of straw, but.

633
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: Don't worry, it was lined with asbestos and.

634
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: Less we forget, probably a real skin mask. This set

635
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: the tone for the next six tortuous months of shooting.

636
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 2: Jack Haley the tin Man, would later say, people question

637
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: me like you're questioning me now, saying, oh, it must

638
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: have been fun making The Wizard of Oz. It was

639
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: a lot of hard work. It was not fun at all.

640
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 2: There's nothing funny about it. He would also say that

641
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 2: working in The Wizard of Oz was quote, not acting.

642
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: It was movement, which is either very zen or very

643
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: very depressing. Most MGM films around the time took twenty

644
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: two days to shoot Oz took eighty six. Most of

645
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: these six hundred strong cast and crew worked six days

646
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: a week, and the elaborate hair, makeup and costumes required

647
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: four am call times, and then they wouldn't leave until

648
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: seven pm or later. Filmed almost entirely indoors on five

649
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: s down stages across the MGM lot which is now

650
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 2: Sony Picture Studios, where they filmed Jeopardy and Wheel four, Oh,

651
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: How the Mighty Have Fallen, paved Paradise parking Lot, et cetera.

652
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: Ordinarily one camera was used on a film at the time,

653
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 2: but according to cinematographer how Rawsome they used nine on

654
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 2: Oz because the sets were so large. He also had

655
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 2: to deal with the nightmare of reflections from the tin

656
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 2: Man suits and Dorothy's slippers. Speaking of the Tinman suit,

657
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: director Victor Fleming made a bit of a booboo. He

658
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: spent three days shooting early scenes with the Tin Man

659
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 2: using the unrusted version of the suit, which are supposed

660
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: to be meant for the scenes after he arrives in

661
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: Oz and gets you know, the oil happy ending and

662
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 2: a sand down. So they had to read. So they

663
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: had to redo those three days of shoots and that

664
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 2: distressed Mervyn Leroy so much that he took to He

665
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: took a bed like Brian Wilson for three days. And

666
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 2: so while Oz was not the first film to use technicolor,

667
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: that goes to a film from nineteen seventeen, which the

668
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: first year that the process had actually been invented, called

669
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: The Gulf Between but The Wizard of Oz did advance

670
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 2: the technology significantly. What they called the Technicolor three strip

671
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: process was incredibly expensive at the time, which does partially

672
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 2: explain why the film was two point seven million dollars

673
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 2: or about sixty million today. As we mentioned earlier, the

674
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: bright lights required to light for technicolor shooting meant that

675
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 2: the temperature on the set was around one hundred degrees.

676
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: The other thing that I've heard about the Technicolor project

677
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 2: was the process was that some of those lights actually

678
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: gave people vision problems, like permanently. Yeah, where did I

679
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: just read that? One second? Some actors and actresses claim

680
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: to have suffered permanent eye damage from the high levels

681
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 2: of carbon arc illumination because carbon lights had highly actinic ultraviolet.

682
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: So I don't know what that means, but it was

683
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 2: bad for people's eyes. That does not sound good. You

684
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: don't want actin in your eyes unless it's fast act

685
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: int actin. Didn't John Madden do those commercials? Yes? He did,

686
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: a classic guy. So these daylight bright lights that were

687
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 2: needed to shoot the Technicolor brought the production's electricity bill

688
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: alone to about two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars

689
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: or four point nine million in modern money. In other words,

690
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 2: a tenth of the entire production budget was spent lighting

691
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 2: the film, and it was so intense that lighting the

692
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,479
Speaker 2: studio for these shoots resulted in brownouts in Culver City

693
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: in Hollywood where they were shooting it. The only thing

694
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: that the crew could do to cool at set down

695
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: was to pause production and throw open the doors of

696
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 2: the sound stage. One of the most indelible effects in

697
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 2: the film is when Dorothy steps out of the CPA

698
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 2: hued farmhouse and into the vibrant colors of munchkin Land.

699
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 2: So indelible image that they made that whole movie about

700
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: it called Pleasantville, Right, Yeah, they just took that. What

701
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: if we made that into a movie and teaching fifties

702
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: women to masturbate makes them be in color? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, So,

703
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: initially production had planned to employ a process called stencil

704
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 2: printing to achieve the effect. They would basically hand tint

705
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 2: each frame individually, sort of like rotoscoping. Rotoscoping is when

706
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: you paint directly onto the film cell. And that was funny.

707
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: Snow White came up earlier because one of the things

708
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: that was considered so beautiful that animation was the way

709
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: that she was rendered, and that was the animators using

710
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 2: their wives blush on the cells, so they would color

711
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: it and then dot and then like you literally use

712
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 2: like makeup powder on it on her.

713
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: Cheeks, are on the whole thing, just to give it

714
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: on her cheeks.

715
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, on her cheeks. Wow. So that approach was

716
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: ultimately deemed too difficult and costly and was abandoned, so

717
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: they went to the much more simple and ingenious technique

718
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 2: during reshoots in May of nineteen thirty nine. So to

719
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 2: film that color transition without cutting away, the entire scene

720
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: was shot in color, but with the inside of the

721
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: farmhouse painted cepia. So when Dorothy opens the farmhouse door,

722
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: it is Judy Garland's stand in wearing a dress that

723
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: has been dyed to match the inside of the farmhouse,

724
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 2: and then they opened it onto the set, which was

725
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 2: filmed in color. Great stuff, isn't that cool? Yeah? Then

726
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: the wonderful line Toto, I have a feeling we're not

727
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: in Kansas anymore. Yeah.

728
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: There's some really cool videos on YouTube that break down

729
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: this effect in much greater detail.

730
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: So it's very cool. I wish I knew more about

731
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 2: how technicolor worked, because I was trying to give like

732
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: a dummies version of it and I don't even understand it. Yeah.

733
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: No, I looked too, and then I just this was

734
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: kind of the most I got into it. Yeah, they

735
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: don't shoot on that anymore, do they?

736
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 2: Actually? No, they don't. Okay, well I guess with digital

737
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 2: they really don't. But no, the last technical the last

738
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: the team even last year the fifties. Last Technicolor film

739
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: was in nineteen fifty eight. Five really yeah, what do

740
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,360
Speaker 2: they use that panavision or something? No, Panavision's a lens.

741
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 2: I think they went to code chrome. Eastman color, Sorry

742
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 2: not code chrome was home movies. Eastman color was the

743
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 2: thirty five milimeter. What was the last one, you know,

744
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 2: off hand with? The last Technicolor movie was Foxfire starring

745
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: Jane Russell and Jeff Chandler, filmed in fifty four. The

746
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: last American made feature photograph with a technical or three

747
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 2: strip camera. Now you can just do it with a

748
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 2: filter and Instagram anyway, that's all boring. It's a good

749
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: look editing making that compelling. I thought it was cool. Yeah,

750
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: I mean you and I do. But uh, Jordan talked

751
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: just about tornadoes.

752
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: Yes, Now we're at a section called HiT's a Twister.

753
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: HiT's a twister. All I can think of that is

754
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 2: is Johnny and Airplane Good. Yeah, it's a twist. It's

755
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: a twister.

756
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: You know. I couldn't fit this in anywhere. I meant

757
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: to put at it last week and I didn't. The

758
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: person who's uh Auntm's voice gone Dorothy. Dorothy, that's a

759
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: Munchkin character who's dubbed. And then I think they they

760
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: like sped it up slightly so it sounded like a

761
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 1: woman's voice.

762
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, anyway, I'm glad. I added.

763
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: Another ingenious, simple practical effect is the tornado that delivers

764
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: Dorothy enter farmhouse to Oz. Or Wait, the farmhouse landed

765
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: in munchkin Land. Is munchin Land like a dish trick

766
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: of Oz, or like a suburb of oz.

767
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, dude, don't even get into this in that's

768
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 2: regor maguire thing. There's all of these other places in

769
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: Oz and there's like racial tensions between some of them,

770
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 2: and it's it's a whole thing.

771
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: Man.

772
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: Don't even don't even ask that question. Don't even get started.

773
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: We didn't even you didn't. We didn't. We didn't say

774
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: it didn't happen. We're not talking about it. You won't

775
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 2: believe how much it didn't happen.

776
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, head technician, Buddy Gillepsi, that's the kind

777
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: of guy I want on my film set, handling all

778
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: the specials egs. Buddy Gillepsi, he initially tried to make

779
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,280
Speaker 1: a tornado out of a cone shaped bit of rubber,

780
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: But it hasn't who among us?

781
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: Who among us?

782
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: But it looked terrible and was soon discarded.

783
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 2: But here's the thing.

784
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: He spent eight grand on it, which is close to

785
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: one hundred and forty thousand dollars today, So presumably Uncle

786
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: Louis B.

787
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 2: Mayer had some words for him. I just love the

788
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,359
Speaker 2: idea of somebody going by, probably Mervin right, just going

789
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: by and seeing this guy futts in with the big

790
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 2: thing of rubber and being like, well, what do you

791
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: got here? Got it buddy? Yeah? H does it look

792
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 2: like a tornado? No, no it doesn't. How much did

793
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: this cost? Well, we're we're still getting the we'll send

794
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: the invoice to you. Yeah, yeah, it's checks in the mail.

795
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 1: But he redeemed himself with a comparatively cheap solution because

796
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,240
Speaker 1: the final shot you see in the film was created

797
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: with a thirty five foot muslin stalking, which is essentially

798
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: a giant pantyhose that was so in the shape of

799
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: a cone. The top was towed around the sound stage

800
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: on a gantry and the bottom was fitted into a.

801
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: Slot on the floor. So you know, that's why it's

802
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 2: so thin.

803
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: It's just moving around a track on a slot on

804
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: the floor of the sound stage, and the thing spun

805
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 1: as it moves while dirt, dust and wind blew against it,

806
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: and technicians were more or less just expected to breathe

807
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: that stuff in, which is one of the less egregious

808
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: OSHA violations we'll discuss in this episode.

809
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say, grading on a curve or that's nothing.

810
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 2: They used to called Fuller's Earth, which I'm not familiar with.

811
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: I wonder how toxic that was later found out to be. Yeah,

812
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 2: I know, I'm not sure.

813
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: Uh.

814
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 2: I think this is so cool.

815
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: So the shot of Dorothy's house falling from the sky

816
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,719
Speaker 1: was captured by dropping a miniature prop house from a

817
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: ladder onto a painting of a sky that was painted

818
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 1: onto the floor of the sound stage, and there was

819
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: also some dry ice to simulate clouds. So they dropped

820
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: this house and filmed it in slow motion falling away

821
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: from the camera, and then in post production they reversed

822
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: it so it looked like it was falling towards the camera,

823
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: which I think is so smart.

824
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: It's movie magic, so much movie magic. This episode you

825
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,439
Speaker 2: did Fullers Earth is like you know how we don't

826
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: make many things in the United States and like export them. Yeah,

827
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,320
Speaker 2: fullers earth. The US has an almost seventy percent world

828
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: share of it. I've never even heard of it. We're

829
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: little world's largest. I guess it's used in fashion, like

830
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: for textile stuff. Oh weird, It's been used to clean

831
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 2: the top. Oh good, it's in cat litter. So these

832
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 2: guys are just breathing in cat litter. Yeah well, so,

833
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: I mean this is interesting. In movies. It's used in

834
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: pyro explosions because it spreads farther and higher than most

835
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: natural soils the blast the blast looks more impressive. Fooler's

836
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 2: Earth is widely used in makeup, props, wardrobe, and set

837
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: dress departments because it is considered a clean dirt, safer

838
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 2: to yours around people, and cleans up easily. However, health

839
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: concerns in this regard have been debated. Citation so cool.

840
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: Yeah well, at least it wasn't filled with like ground

841
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: up hobos and newspapers and okay, so that was one

842
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 2: of the less egregious OSHA violations.

843
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: Now let's get to probably next to Buddy epsod almost dying,

844
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: one of the biggest. Yes, we're moving from movie magic

845
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 1: to a little segment that I like to call movie

846
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 1: movie Mayhem was right there, movie may Oh, you're right,

847
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: you're right, So okay, okay, I'm not going to hold

848
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: it against you. We've talked about the ten man saga

849
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 1: and the permanent lines on the Scarecrow's face from his mask,

850
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: Judy Garland's crushed rib cage from her corset, and her

851
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: pill problem, Toto's sprained Paul. But we've saved the best

852
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: slash worst injury for Sweet angel Baby Margaret.

853
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: Hamilton, who played the Wicked Witch of the West.

854
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: She suffered second and third degree burns in her hands

855
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: and face when filming the end of her first appearance

856
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: in munchkin Land, when she vanishes in a puff of smoke.

857
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: You know, I'll get you my pretty little dog too,

858
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 1: and then the puff of smoke and she's gone. In reality,

859
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: she disappears through a trapdoor on the floor. Then there's

860
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: an explosion and there you go. Easy, simple, not so much. Unfortunately,

861
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 1: the crew didn't give Margaret Hamilton enough time to disappear

862
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: through the trapdoor on the sound stage floor before hitting

863
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: the pirate technics. This incident occurred two days before Christmas

864
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, which makes this whole story so much worse.

865
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: A single mom too, a little boy at home. Their

866
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: Christmas is all screwed up. According to the Making of

867
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz book, which is an incredible text. Flames

868
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: caught her broom and hat, scalding her chin, the bridge

869
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: of her nose, her right cheek, and the right side

870
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: of her forehead. The eyelashes and eyebrow, and her right

871
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 1: eye had been burned off. Her upper lip and eyeland

872
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: were badly burned.

873
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 2: And it gets worse.

874
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: At first, Margaret Hamilton didn't understand why everyone around her

875
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: seemed so panicked, because, as far as she was considering,

876
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: she just felt a flash of heat on her face.

877
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

878
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: Then she looked down and saw that most of the

879
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: skin on her hands was gone. She would say, it

880
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 1: looked as though quote, someone had peeled an orange.

881
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: Let's just sit with that for a minute. Oh, that's bad.

882
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: It gets so much worse.

883
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: The crew realized that Margaret Hamilton, you'll may recall, was

884
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 1: wearing extremely toxic copper based green makeup, which they needed

885
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: to get off her before it got into her bloodstream

886
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: and poisoned her. Because you know, she didn't have skin anymore.

887
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: The only way to get this makeup off was to

888
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: frantically scrub her freshly burned hands and face with alcohol.

889
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: I was about to make a joke like, what did

890
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 2: they do for battery acid on her? And no, they

891
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 2: just poured rubbing alcohol into a raw layer of nerve endings. Yep.

892
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: Years later, she would describe it as the worst pain

893
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: she'd ever experience.

894
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: She said, it hurts so much that you just tremble.

895
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: You can't help it.

896
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 1: The injury required a trip to the hospital, which the

897
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: studio did not pay for.

898
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: Ah, there's the cherry. Hamilton was forced to call a

899
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: friend to pick her up from the studio and take

900
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: her to the emergency room.

901
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: That was always amazing to me, she'd later say that

902
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 1: the studio didn't send me home in a limousine. This

903
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,840
Speaker 1: would be keeping in character with the studio, who literally

904
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: called her the next day in the hospital with barely

905
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: disguised frustration and asked when she planned to return to

906
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: the set. The doctor reportedly grabbed the phone and cheot

907
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 1: out the studio executive, saying, she will be ready to

908
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: leave when I damn well say she is, and not

909
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: a second before, and honestly she should sue you. Margaret

910
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 1: Hamilton would be out for six weeks with pay, thankfully,

911
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: and as she convalesced at home Judy, who was presumably

912
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: devastated that her only friend on the set was gone,

913
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,800
Speaker 1: because you remember that the men on the set, the

914
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: tin Man, the cowardly Lion, and the scarecrow all resented

915
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 1: her in kind of ostracizer, paid her regular visits and

916
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 1: helped looked after her little boy.

917
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 2: I know.

918
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 1: When Margaret Hamilton finally did return to the set, her

919
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: hands hadn't healed and she was forced to wear green

920
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 1: gloves to protect her exposed nerve endings. She's been quoted

921
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 1: as saying, I wouldn't sue because I know how this

922
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 1: business works, and I would never work again, which is

923
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,879
Speaker 1: pretty much what Buddy Epsen said when he almost died.

924
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: I returned to work on one condition, no more fireworks.

925
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: Immediately upon her return from recovering from being set on fire,

926
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: she was promptly asked to film another fire really.

927
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: Scene that very same day.

928
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: This was the sequence where the Witch was seen skywriting

929
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,800
Speaker 1: with her broom, you know, surrendered Dorothy. In reality, this

930
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: was a pipe with smoke shooting out the back. When

931
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 1: Margaret Hamilton asked why she was required to wear a

932
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: fireproof costume during this scene, she was informed that there

933
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: was a greater than zero chance that the broom might explode.

934
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: Keenly aware that the crew didn't have her best interest

935
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: at heart, and probably keenly aware of the fact that

936
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: she was a working single mom, Hamilton refused to do

937
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: the stunt. Instead, the task fell to her double, Betty Danko.

938
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: Hamilton took Danko aside and give her a heads up

939
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: and then went home, and by the time she arrived home,

940
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: she got a phone call informing her that the broom

941
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: had indeed exploded and Betty Danko was in the hospital.

942
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: Danko would say, after eleven days in the hospital, it

943
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: felt as though my scalp was coming off. I guess

944
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 1: that's because my hat and my black.

945
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,320
Speaker 2: Wig were torn loose.

946
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 1: While writhing on the floor, having the two deep wound

947
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: on her legs and thigh examined, a customer angrily ran

948
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: over to her and demanded, what.

949
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: Did you do with the hat? I have to turn

950
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 2: that in, you know.

951
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: The hat was eventually recovered high up in the rafters

952
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: of the sound stage where it had been blown by

953
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: the explosion. For her trouble, Betty Danko earned herself thirty

954
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: five dollars for her day's work and a hysterectomy movie magic. Wow.

955
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:34,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that was a lot to take in. Yeah yeah, yeah.

956
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's a bad one. We've talked about some

957
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,279
Speaker 1: bad on set accidents. That's that's a bad one.

958
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 2: A young John Landis read about this and thought, I

959
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 2: can beat that.

960
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break, but we'll be

961
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: right back with more too much information in just a moment,

962
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 1: I talk about toxins.

963
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 2: You like talking for a while? Well, Jordan, please, I

964
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 2: love toxins metaphorical literal. Understandably, Hamilton was a little wary

965
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 2: of doing fire scenes for the remainder of the shoot,

966
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 2: having heard that her double lost her reproductive organs to

967
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 2: a pipe bomb room, but she still had to film

968
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: the part where she sets fire to Scarecrow, and as

969
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: you may imagine, her faith in this crew was at

970
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 2: an all time low.

971
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: Uh.

972
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 2: It's like that you look over and it's like the

973
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 2: key grip is like a horse. Yeah. The guy lighting

974
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,200
Speaker 2: Pyro is just like a guy they found in the

975
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:50,720
Speaker 2: alley that day. Uh, she'd later say after an earlier

976
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 2: experience when my broom caught fire, it was almost too

977
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: much for me. But when I was assured that Bulger's

978
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 2: suit was as beestos and there was little danger of

979
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 2: it catching fire. Now, Jordan, there's different kinds of asbestos. Yeah,

980
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 2: they're all bad. Yeah. Well, did you know that the

981
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 2: snow that was used in the poppy field scene was

982
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: chrysto teal asbestos? I did not, and I wrote this,

983
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 2: does that name make it less toxic? It's very pretty sounding.

984
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: It would be a beautiful name for a girl. As

985
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,839
Speaker 2: Atlas Obscura elegantly put it, the film literally douses its

986
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 2: main characters in carcinogens. There is a scene where Ray

987
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,720
Speaker 2: Bulger is dancing around wearing asbestos as abestos flakes rained

988
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 2: down on him.

989
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: Insert yo, dog, we heard you like asbestos, so we yes, yeah.

990
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 2: And then he died of cancer. Yep. Asbestos was fairly

991
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: common on film sets at the time. It was like

992
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 2: Citizen Kane, It's a Wonderful Life and White Christmas all

993
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: used asbestos snow. There are sources out there that do

994
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 2: refute this claim for Wizard of Oz. But here's another

995
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 2: fun fact about that poppy field scene. It took twenty

996
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 2: two men one week of NonStop work to make forty

997
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 2: thousand fake flowers for that set. There's not a lot

998
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,399
Speaker 2: of people that know that. It's a good fact. I'd

999
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: like to start measuring things in fake flower hours your

1000
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: man hours used, but I'd like I'd be like, oh,

1001
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: that's gonna be about ten thousand fake flowers of work.

1002
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,959
Speaker 2: The toxins were really the friends that were made along

1003
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:19,919
Speaker 2: the way in Wizard of Oz.

1004
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: Toxins are a character in the Wizard of Oz. We

1005
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 1: don't talk about it. It's as a character, a character.

1006
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 2: The toxins were his and I always would be. The

1007
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 2: prop team.

1008
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: The but Ray Boulger story Q Rhapsody of Blue, Yeah,

1009
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: the prop team was regularly exposed to what we now

1010
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: call poison.

1011
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 2: The breakaway glass that the cowardly line. What I made

1012
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: a joke about this last thing where they were talking about,

1013
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: was it Jean Harlow's hair dye was used with the

1014
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: old thermometer mercury. Yep, that's what they did to make

1015
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: breakaway glass that the cowardly Lion dives through an oz.

1016
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: They poured resin into a pool of mercury in a

1017
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: closed room movie magic. So understandably, by this point production

1018
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 2: had gained something of a troubled reputation in the press,

1019
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 2: and MGM tried to order producer Mervin Leroy shut down production. Moore, however,

1020
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: refused and fought back, and MGM simply closed the set

1021
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 2: to visitors. Another fun aspect of this film that you

1022
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: may have gotten ahead of us in guessing about was

1023
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 2: the treatment of the monkeys. Initially, they considered using cartoons,

1024
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 2: but this plan was quickly aborted because it was too safe,

1025
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: so they first used miniature rubber monkeys, and then some

1026
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 2: stuntmen on wires thrown in for good measure. Two of

1027
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: these actors suffered bad falls when the wires that held

1028
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 2: them in the air broke, and as your beloved Algean

1029
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: Harmetz later observed to The New York Times, some of

1030
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 2: those special effects had never been done before. There were

1031
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 2: no unions at that time. Stars and lesser players were

1032
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 2: indentured servants for studios. Jordan, take us to a little

1033
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 2: place we like to call Judy Garland's private hell.

1034
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the abuse of negligence wasn't just physical on

1035
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: the set for Judy Garland it was also psychological.

1036
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 2: As we touched on in the first episode, the.

1037
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 1: Sixteen year old Garland was plied with highly addictive dexadrene

1038
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 1: pills to keep her a little sparkle in her eye,

1039
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: keep her energized, and curb her appetite on the set.

1040
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 1: A side effect of this drug is paranoia and insomnia,

1041
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 1: which doesn't.

1042
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 2: Exactly contribute to tip top mental health.

1043
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: Perhaps this is why she was known to burst into

1044
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: wild fits of uncontrollable laughter on the set.

1045
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,000
Speaker 2: This occurred during the scene.

1046
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,240
Speaker 1: Where she meets the Cowardly Lion and makes him cry.

1047
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: After one too many laughs, director Victor Fleming took her

1048
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 1: aside and smacked her across the face, ordering her to quote,

1049
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: get out there and work.

1050
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 2: He would later say he immediately.

1051
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: Regretted it and wished that someone punched him in the

1052
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: nose for what he had just done. There would be

1053
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 1: open debates between the the director, cinematographers, and customers about

1054
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: how to quote fix Judy's flaws, speaking in ruthlessly harsh

1055
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: terms as if she wasn't standing right there.

1056
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ.

1057
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: She would say, I was studied like a piece of merchandise.

1058
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,200
Speaker 1: It didn't occur to anyone that I might have feelings.

1059
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 1: In addition to the painful course that she was ordered

1060
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,399
Speaker 1: to wear to maintain the figure of a twelve year old,

1061
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 1: Garland allegedly consented to have her teeth capped disguise the

1062
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: fact that they were misaligned. And this is for some

1063
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 1: reason of everything we've talked about, the craziest thing of

1064
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: all to me. So you supposedly, I've seen this in

1065
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: reputable sources. Put rubber disks in her nose to alter

1066
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: its shape. I don't know how you would speak and

1067
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,839
Speaker 1: sing with rubber things in your nose.

1068
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: I yeah, that's weird, I know. For I know. One

1069
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 2: of long Cheney's tricks was like fish skin for the

1070
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 2: Phantom of the opera makeup what Yeah. Cheney applied putty

1071
00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: to sharpened the angle of his nose and inserted two

1072
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 2: loops of wire into his nostrils, which were themselves darkened

1073
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 2: with black eyeliner to make a skeletal shape. Extra wires

1074
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 2: were concealed under putty and the skull cap. Extra wild

1075
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 2: concealed under the putty around the nose and the cap.

1076
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 2: The bog cap were attached to Chenes's nose to pull

1077
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: his nostrils upward. There are some who stated that in

1078
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 2: certain shots Cheney manipulated his nose with spirit gum and

1079
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 2: fish skin, but that has not been verified anyway, so

1080
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 2: she's lucky she got off with rubber disks.

1081
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: Writing in her book The Making of The Wizard of Oz,

1082
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,640
Speaker 1: film historian Aljeehermet says that Judy viewed herself as quote

1083
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: the undesired repository of her voice in signing Judy Garland,

1084
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: MGM had bought an extraordinary voice, unfortunately attached to a

1085
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,919
Speaker 1: mediocre body and a badly flawed face. In the next

1086
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: seven years, the voice would be trained, the teeth capped,

1087
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: the nose restructured, the thick waist held in by corsets,

1088
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 1: and the body reshaped as well as possible by diet

1089
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:12,439
Speaker 1: and massage. Judy Garland was like a leaf held under

1090
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,800
Speaker 1: a magnifying glass by someone who wants to set a fire.

1091
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 2: That's an incredible line. Ah God, yeah, yeah.

1092
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 1: Even the nice things that the studio tried to do

1093
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: for her came with a tinge of cruelty. When she

1094
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: was designated an official MGM star during production, whatever that means,

1095
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: she was awarded a dressing room trailer which was wheeled

1096
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: onto the set for a ceremonial ribbon cutting. When the

1097
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: ceremony had ended and everyone headed off to lunch, Judy

1098
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: tried to open the door to a new dressing room

1099
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: and discovered it was locked. They hadn't entrusted her with

1100
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: the key, and she promptly burst into tears.

1101
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 2: I thought they would have just like it was gonna

1102
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 2: be like a cartoon boxing glove came out and just

1103
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 2: got to the right nose, with the recording of Victor

1104
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 2: Fleming saying, get out there and work. Yeah, my god,

1105
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: this is just dickenzie. Yeah. Yeah.

1106
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: Speaking of dressing room horror stories, Margaret Hamilton, the Wicked

1107
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: Witch of the West, would later say that hers really sucked.

1108
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 2: I always thought they got me mixed up with an

1109
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 2: actual witch. She'd later say.

1110
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 1: They must have thought that witches don't have very nice

1111
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: dressing rooms, because mine was simply awful. It was a

1112
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 1: square of canvas, and the floor had some sort of

1113
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 1: dirty looking rug on it, and there was one chair

1114
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: and a card table with a light over it. Meanwhile,

1115
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,919
Speaker 1: Glinda the Good Witch Billy Burke had pink satin fur

1116
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: rugs and a chaise lounge and apparently when Glinda wasn't there,

1117
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 1: Margaret Hamilton would eat her luncheon.

1118
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 2: There instead, crying softly. I know, good Lord, yes.

1119
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: Well, given all the pain and misery on the one

1120
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: hundred degrees set, filled with carcinogens and monstrous creatures, gasping

1121
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 1: for breath, sticking of sweat, and occasionally getting burned alive,

1122
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 1: you'd be forgiven for believing that urban legend that one

1123
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 1: cast member, usually reported to be a munchkin, decided to

1124
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: end it all and hang themselves on set in the

1125
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: middle of a take.

1126
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,560
Speaker 2: This is like the most yeah, probably the strongest memory

1127
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 2: I have of this film. Sam is like being some

1128
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: you know, snot nosed little kid who's been erased by

1129
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 2: decades of alcohol abuse, and mine saying this, repeating this

1130
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 2: fact to me. Yes.

1131
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: For years, viewers have claimed to see a swinging body

1132
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 1: hanging from a noose or the shadow of this.

1133
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 2: I've seen both versions. At the enter, it's totally there.

1134
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 2: It's totally there.

1135
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: It's at the end of you were off to see

1136
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: the Wizard musical number as Dorothy, the Tin Men, and

1137
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: the Scarecrows skip down the yellow brick road. In reality,

1138
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: the shadow belongs to an exotic bird. Obviously, it's believed

1139
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: to be a crane borrowed from the Los Angeles Zoo,

1140
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: which was added to the set to beef up the

1141
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,320
Speaker 1: whole wild wilderness thing. Though it looks mysteriou us on

1142
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: granny VHS home video and probably doubly so during the

1143
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: TV broadcast of the fifties and sixties, modern four K

1144
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:09,400
Speaker 1: versions of the film clearly reveal that it is a

1145
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: bird and not a hanged munchkin.

1146
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 2: Although you know, this is one of those things where

1147
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 2: like when you when you first see the movie as

1148
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 2: a consumer, you're like, there's no way that's a hanged munchie,

1149
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: and and then you get a little bit more into

1150
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 2: it and you're like, it's definitely yeah, And you come

1151
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 2: around to it at the point that we have and

1152
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 2: you're like, that could very plausibly be a dead munchkin.

1153
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, especially if for knowing all we know now, Yeah,

1154
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 1: I mean, it wouldn't It wouldn't surprise me based on

1155
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: everything we've just talked about.

1156
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 2: I mean, what are they what are they doing it?

1157
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 2: They're not doing a corpse check at the end of

1158
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: the day, they were They probably weren't even making sure

1159
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 2: all the fires were out and then they were just

1160
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: like down at an opium den and like or I

1161
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:55,840
Speaker 2: don't know whatever whatever they did throw darts at rats.

1162
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like what did people do for fun

1163
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 2: in this horrible period of American Holly would drunk drive

1164
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: and try to get out of it. Yeah, drunk drive

1165
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 2: crushed starlets to death a lot of cocaine, probably similar

1166
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: to the intense humming of evil that was described by

1167
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: g I soldiers liberating Dacou. It was understandable that the

1168
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 2: curse of the Wizard of Oz set passed into legend,

1169
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 2: but misfortune followed the cast even after they were freed

1170
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 2: from that oppressively hot, heavy metal saturated talks, infumed racist

1171
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 2: child striking a drug addicted greatest place on her movie Magic.

1172
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 2: Frank Morgan aka the Wizard was badly injured in a

1173
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 2: car wreck months after the film's release. And then there's

1174
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 2: the tragic tale of poor anti m actress Clara Blandick

1175
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 2: suffered debilitating help problems in her later years. Quoting from

1176
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: her extremely baroquicked page, I'm.

1177
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: Gonna say, I'm guessing that all the wikipediaddors for the

1178
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: Oz related pages are all X Theater kids, because all

1179
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: of these pages for anything Olls related have a flair

1180
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:10,040
Speaker 1: for the dramatic.

1181
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know. On April fifteenth, nineteen sixty two,

1182
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 2: Blandyck returned home from Palm Sunday services at her church.

1183
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 2: She began rearranging her room, placing her favorite photos and

1184
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 2: memorabilia and prominent places. She laid out her resume and

1185
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 2: a collection of press clippings from her lengthy career. She

1186
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 2: dressed immaculately and an elegant royal blue dressing gown, with

1187
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 2: her hair properly stiled, then took an overdose of sleeping pills.

1188
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 2: She laid down on a couch, covered herself with a

1189
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: gold blanket over her shoulders, tied a plastic bag over

1190
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 2: her head. She left the following note, I am now

1191
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: about to make the great adventure. I cannot endure this

1192
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 2: agonizing pain any longer. It is all over my body,

1193
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 2: nor can I face the impending blindness. I pray the

1194
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 2: Lord my soul to take amen Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah,

1195
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: The worst thing is that she would have canonically been

1196
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 2: in hell, because if Catholic, it's immortal sin, you know.

1197
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: So, yeah, well that's sad. It's like the Bells suicide

1198
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:15,440
Speaker 1: go on?

1199
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: Familiar with that?

1200
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 1: No, According to Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon widely debunked book,

1201
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 1: she set her room up perfectly, all these flowers and pictures,

1202
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: and chose her outfit very elegantly, and then took an

1203
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,760
Speaker 1: overdose of something. And oh and she like pooped herself.

1204
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: I think all the above. I think, yes, out of everywhere,

1205
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: it was everywhere, And I believe if I'm not mistaken.

1206
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: According to Kenneth Anger's version, she just drowned in the toilet.

1207
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:49,720
Speaker 1: She like passed out with her head in the toilet

1208
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: and drowned in the water there. But that's Kenneth Anger

1209
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: being a messy, messy man.

1210
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 2: Well, you know, as the famous apocryphal quote grows, I

1211
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: drank to drowned my demons. I went to the toilet

1212
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 2: to drown my demons, but they learned how to swim.

1213
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 2: Sunrise sunset. God, this was such a miserable Why do

1214
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 2: people like movies?

1215
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 1: What if?

1216
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 2: I what did we do to this world? What did

1217
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 2: we do to this world? What do to us? I

1218
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 2: hate movies now? Oh no, I don't love don't I

1219
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:28,240
Speaker 2: don't love the movies anymore?

1220
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: Oh no?

1221
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 2: Well here this is slightly warmer.

1222
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: Although this, for some reason, this like truly creeps me out,

1223
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 1: even though it shouldn't, Like there's nothing inherently creepy about it,

1224
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: but it always kind of set me on edge to

1225
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 1: the point where I've.

1226
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 2: Never actually done this. Yeah, I mean I never did this.

1227
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 2: I think our film club did it once in high school,

1228
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 2: but I wasn't there for that day or else. I

1229
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 2: never went back after watching Requiem for a Dream. It

1230
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 2: was one of the two two things that happened in

1231
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 2: film club in high school. Anyway, we were talking, of course,

1232
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: about the Dark Side of the Rainbow, which is the

1233
01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 2: practice of beginning your viewing a Wizard of Oz concurrently

1234
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 2: with Pink Floyd's nineteen seventy three album Dark Side of

1235
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 2: the Moon. No one knows how where or when this

1236
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 2: initially began. It is just one of those things that

1237
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 2: simply was one day pre Internet and just passed into

1238
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 2: every dorm room and high school in America. From a

1239
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 2: practical standpoint, you could probably date it to around the

1240
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 2: era of home video in the early eighties, because it

1241
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 2: is a lot easier to adjust the timing in that

1242
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: prior to that, you would have been doing with reels

1243
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 2: for a TV broadcasts. Tradition dictates allegedly that you start

1244
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 2: the album on the MGM lion's third roar, although some

1245
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 2: people suggest you can also do it on the first.

1246
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,360
Speaker 2: It's multiple schools of thought. Maybe I'll just do this tonight.

1247
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: This is not that long.

1248
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I will too. Yeah, it's like a tight ninety.

1249
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: It would also make sense that it would only also

1250
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 2: really work during the CD era, because if you got

1251
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 2: up to flip the record, you would mess with the

1252
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: synchronization of everything unless you also positive film. It's a

1253
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 2: whole thing.

1254
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: You But that don't have to be a home video, Yeah,

1255
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: it has to. It definitely has to have been when

1256
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:13,479
Speaker 1: home video and CDs were.

1257
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 2: So that's eighties though that's late eighties. Yeah, it has

1258
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: to be. Yeah, sometime sometime in the eighties. Yeah, I'm

1259
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 2: trying to think of this. One of my Tom Waight

1260
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 2: CDs was one of the ones, early ones that came

1261
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 2: with those warning things that were like this has been

1262
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:33,439
Speaker 2: master oh yeah, mastered for CD and may reveal limitations

1263
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 2: of the original recording because people were not used to

1264
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 2: being able to hear the tape hisss. Yeah, and it

1265
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 2: freaked them all out. They thought it was a real

1266
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 2: train coming right toward them. Idiots film picks anyway. The

1267
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 2: first mainstream reporting on this phenomenon was a nineteen ninety

1268
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 2: five article by Charles Savage in the Fort Worth Journal Gazette,

1269
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 2: which then gave rise to a host of early web forms,

1270
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 2: the catalog the many coincident is that pop up during

1271
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 2: this synchronization. In two thousand, the Turner Classic Movies Network

1272
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 2: made a special broadcast of the film that signaled when

1273
01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: to start the record. The aforementioned Charles Savage, who is

1274
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:16,040
Speaker 2: now pull up surprise winning Washington Correspondent because there's upward

1275
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 2: mobility for the and not for me as a court

1276
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 2: contort to sit like Jimminy Glick and this share podcast.

1277
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: He wrote on the topic again for The New York

1278
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,200
Speaker 2: Times a few years ago. Quote. Part of the enigma

1279
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 2: of the Dark Side of the Rainbow is that even

1280
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 2: today nobody knows its origin. Back in nineteen ninety five,

1281
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 2: my effort to figure out who did it first went nowhere,

1282
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 2: and no one has made a credible claim to being

1283
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,040
Speaker 2: its originator. In the decades since then, we are left

1284
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,479
Speaker 2: to speculate why anyone would have thought to try putting

1285
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 2: the two works together, or if it was instead born

1286
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 2: of coincidence itself, perhaps the album was playing in the

1287
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 2: background when someone channel served to the movie on television

1288
01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: and noticed what was happening. As hard as this is

1289
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 2: to it's at least statistically more likely to happen with

1290
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 2: two of the most popular mass entertainments of the last century.

1291
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 2: That is correct. You are talking about a film that

1292
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 2: billions of people have seen and an album that was

1293
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 2: on the charts for like five years. Anyway, if you've

1294
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 2: ever tried it, it is an experience. There are enough

1295
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 2: points of motion on screen at any given time from

1296
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 2: music to sync with something, but the coincidences between Dark

1297
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:28,920
Speaker 2: Side and Oz are uncannily specific. Jordan lacking round, what

1298
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:29,439
Speaker 2: are those?

1299
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,040
Speaker 1: Dorothy balances on a fence in her Kansas yard As

1300
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: the line bouncing on both Waves plays in the song Breathe.

1301
01:08:37,320 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: The alarms from time start blaring. As the film cuts

1302
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:43,679
Speaker 1: to the evil Miss Gulch coming to get Toto. Dorothy

1303
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: runs away from home. At the line no one told

1304
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 1: you when to run. Professor Marvel urges Dorothy to go

1305
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: home at home, home again. The foreboding Great Gig in

1306
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: the Sky begins as the tornado descends and cries, Yeah,

1307
01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:58,759
Speaker 1: that whips.

1308
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 2: Actually, that is a clip I have seen.

1309
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: Claire Torre's wordless vocals rise to a frenzy as the

1310
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: storm rolls in and begins shifting to gentle dreaminess just

1311
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,640
Speaker 1: as Dorothy is knocked unconscious. Money begins to play with

1312
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,360
Speaker 1: the cash register sounds just as Dorothy opens the door

1313
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,160
Speaker 1: into technicolor, which is fitting considering how expensive that set

1314
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,480
Speaker 1: was the build. Yeah, right during brain Damage, the Scarecrow,

1315
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: who you'll recall is in need of a brain, flops

1316
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: around as Roger Waters sings The Lunatic is on the Grass,

1317
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 1: and in the conclusion, the album's closing heartbeats.

1318
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 2: Play as Dorothy listens to the tin man's chest. That's

1319
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 2: pretty nuts. Yeah, it's a lot o man. Maybe he'll

1320
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 2: do that later. Yeah, what else we got going on?

1321
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,120
Speaker 2: The super Bowl is literally playing asp taping this.

1322
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 1: Uh.

1323
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 2: The connections are specific enough that even the most rational

1324
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 2: minded folks could be forgiven for wondering if, maybe, just

1325
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 2: maybe Pink Floyd did this intentionally, which makes a lot

1326
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 2: of sense. This is a band that was seriously considered

1327
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:03,760
Speaker 2: making an album entirely with sounds from furniture. That's true,

1328
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 2: and they recorded Abbey Roads Studios, known for pushing the

1329
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 2: boundaries of recording technology in Dun Dun Dun Dun Dun

1330
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 2: Dundunt the Turbulent Sixties. The band, however, has steadfastly denied

1331
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 2: the story for decades. Guitarist David Gilmour suggested that the

1332
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 2: theory was simply the result of internet obsession. Drummer Nick

1333
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 2: Mason had the best quote, It's absolutely nonsense. It has

1334
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 2: nothing to do with the Wizard of Oz. It was

1335
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:33,599
Speaker 2: all based on the sound of music the film Yes Yes,

1336
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 2: Yes Yes. Roger Waters stated that the connection quote has

1337
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,040
Speaker 2: nothing to do with us, but described it as a

1338
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 2: cosmic coincidence. During an appearance on Joe Rogan, Roger Waters

1339
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:46,880
Speaker 2: tells a story he heard about a Louisiana cop who

1340
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 2: pulled over a tour bus for weaving. Once he entered,

1341
01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 2: he supposedly discovered Willie Nelson in the back listening to

1342
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,680
Speaker 2: Darkseide while watching Oz. Water was concluded by saying, I

1343
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 2: don't believe it for a minute, but I like the story.

1344
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 2: Charles Savage, the guy who has went on from reporting

1345
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:09,240
Speaker 2: this originally for the Topeka what and then Wanapulitzer reached

1346
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 2: out to William Neilson's publicist upon hearing this story, and

1347
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 2: it took them four minutes to respond by saying, it

1348
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 2: doesn't sound true. Balmer, I kind of want it to

1349
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:24,920
Speaker 2: be true. Sunrise, Thus glorious, sick transit, Gloria Jordan. I

1350
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 2: was going to say thus ever to tyrants, but.

1351
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 1: Well, finally this hellish production wrapped and it was time

1352
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:35,799
Speaker 1: to enter into post production, which was slightly less physically dangerous,

1353
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: but just a soul destroying.

1354
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:39,920
Speaker 2: Now. The version of The Wizard of Oz.

1355
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: That most people have seen is one hundred and one

1356
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: minutes long, but the edit played at test screenings was

1357
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: about eleven minutes longer, clocking in one hour and fifty

1358
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: two minutes. Now, the average film run time in nineteen

1359
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 1: thirty nine was around ninety minutes, so the producers knew

1360
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:56,679
Speaker 1: they had to slash some scenes. After three sneak previews

1361
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:00,759
Speaker 1: in the comparatively sleepy California towns of sam Bernadie, Pomona,

1362
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:04,360
Speaker 1: and San Luis Obispo, the creative team headed back into

1363
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 1: the editing room to make some tough decisions. Among the

1364
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: money cuts to the film included the Scarecrow's elaborate dance

1365
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: sequence following If I Only Had a Brain, supposedly directed

1366
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,719
Speaker 1: by Golden Age of Hollywood era choreography legend Buzzby Berkeley,

1367
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 1: who fun fact, was driving drunk the wrong way down

1368
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: Highway One in nineteen thirty five and got into a

1369
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: head on that killed two people and went to trial

1370
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 1: for manslaughter.

1371
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 2: Movie Magic Yeah.

1372
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 1: Also cut was a reprise of Dorothy's Over the Rainbow

1373
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,920
Speaker 1: sung while she was trapped in the Witch's Castle, and

1374
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,719
Speaker 1: a reprise of Ding Dong The Witch Is Dead. Film

1375
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,280
Speaker 1: performances of all these sequences have been lost, but the

1376
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: audio still exists.

1377
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 2: Thank yes, I needed a longer version of both of those.

1378
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 2: I hate a reprise. Honestly, it's fine in this show,

1379
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 2: but when you're listening to it like it is an album,

1380
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:53,559
Speaker 2: you're like, no, I heard this song already. Film chop

1381
01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:56,599
Speaker 2: up the better song. It's my biggest beef with defying gravity.

1382
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:00,600
Speaker 2: Chop up, don't chop up this other song that is

1383
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 2: great to remind me of a previous song that was

1384
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 2: not as good? Well, what's the song that chop up?

1385
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 2: They just interpolate and quote from, like every other song

1386
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: in the first act. I do love how many thoughts

1387
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 2: you have I Wicked. Wicked is so fascinating to me

1388
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 2: because I don't know if I mentioned this last time,

1389
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 2: but it's like the guy who did Stephen Schwartz, like

1390
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 2: he came out of retirement to do this essentially and

1391
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,679
Speaker 2: like knocked it out of the woods.

1392
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:26,040
Speaker 3: You know.

1393
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 2: He wrote Godspell, he wrote Pippin Oh, and then he

1394
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 2: like contributed lyrics to Pocahontas the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

1395
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,280
Speaker 2: And then in two thousand and three it was just like,

1396
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to adopt this weird Gregory maguire thing. He

1397
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 2: was just a lyricist from like he's not even that old, No,

1398
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,759
Speaker 2: but he had not been working in Broadway for a while,

1399
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 2: basically from nineteen ninety one to he wrote three songs

1400
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 2: in an off Broadway review, and he wrote lyrics to

1401
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: a musical called Rags that came out in eighty six,

1402
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:02,439
Speaker 2: and then he started working for Disney and dream Works

1403
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 2: with Alan Menkin and didn't do any more Broadway until

1404
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 2: two thousand and three, and then he came back and

1405
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 2: was like, oh, I'll just do this thing that's become

1406
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 2: like the biggest twenty first century musical, just wild, like

1407
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 2: he just came back to be like, I still got it?

1408
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 2: You know? Is it the longest running musical now? No,

1409
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:23,559
Speaker 2: that Phantom closed. No, it would have to be lim

1410
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 2: is No is closed to a thing name is close too,

1411
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 2: But those were both on for like thirty years, so

1412
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 2: I don't even know. It hasn't even been around for

1413
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:33,799
Speaker 2: thirty years, I guess. I mean, like, what is the longest,

1414
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 2: like currently the longest continuing?

1415
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 1: Oh, the nineteen ninety sixth revival of Chicago Lion King

1416
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: and then Wicked.

1417
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 2: Okay, man, I.

1418
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:46,080
Speaker 1: Saw Sunset Boulevard with Nicole Scher singer best thing I've

1419
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: ever seen on Broadway.

1420
01:14:47,080 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 2: Incredible, No, incredible, She deserves so much more, probably won't

1421
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 2: get it.

1422
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,719
Speaker 1: No classically trained opera singer Jesus Christ.

1423
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 2: Why did she acquiesce to being made into like a

1424
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:01,680
Speaker 2: hoe because of that? Because why are we doing podcasts?

1425
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 2: Because it paid the truth?

1426
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:09,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I I think she brings like I definitely

1427
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: think that she was positioned as being like of that

1428
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 1: group and then it never really happened.

1429
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 2: Well, it was still a band called the Pussycat Dolls

1430
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:24,599
Speaker 2: and their origin story was that they were as first right, Yeah, yeah,

1431
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 2: I don't.

1432
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 1: I don't know why she would have gotten involved with

1433
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 1: that when it wasn't literally a record label project. I'm not, yeah,

1434
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:33,000
Speaker 1: and that I don't really know, but I got the

1435
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 1: sense that she brought some of the like I should

1436
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: have been a huge star.

1437
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,560
Speaker 2: And I am not as big as I believe I

1438
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 2: should be.

1439
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 1: Energy, to the Sunset Boat, to her performance as Narma Desmond.

1440
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: It's great, so so good worth seeing. This has been

1441
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: Jordan's theater review Corse. Yes, and I don't. I don't

1442
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: really care about theater much, but that was unbelievable.

1443
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 2: I don't care for the theater. I don't care for

1444
01:15:53,240 --> 01:15:53,679
Speaker 2: the theater.

1445
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: It turned that's back on me, and now I shall

1446
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 1: turn my back on it.

1447
01:15:58,960 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 2: I said good night, I said good day, Oh boy.

1448
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 1: Also cut from The Wizard of Oz were smaller dialogue sequences.

1449
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,559
Speaker 1: Apparently a lot of these were scenes with the Wicked

1450
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: Witch because Margaret Hamilton herself was worried that she was

1451
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 1: gonna She was a former kindergarten teacher and she had

1452
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: She was very aware of children's fears and what that

1453
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: would do to kids, so she.

1454
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 2: Actually lobbied to have a lot of her stuff cut.

1455
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: I think she said that she still had a problem

1456
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:29,840
Speaker 1: afterwards with when her face appears in the ORB when

1457
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:32,880
Speaker 1: Dorothy's like looking in on Uncle Henry and LTM. And

1458
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, her face appears and she's

1459
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: like starts cackling, and they do like the close up

1460
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: zoom into her face, which is truly terrifying. She's like, yeah,

1461
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 1: that's the scariest moment of the film for me.

1462
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 2: So a lot of those were cut.

1463
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:49,240
Speaker 1: The aforementioned skywriting sequence where it's a surrender Dorothy.

1464
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 2: The full version originally was surrender.

1465
01:16:51,560 --> 01:16:54,840
Speaker 1: Dorothy or die, and they decided the or die was

1466
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: a little little much.

1467
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:58,880
Speaker 2: All these people, these people almost dying on the set,

1468
01:16:58,920 --> 01:17:01,519
Speaker 2: and they're like, I can't say it. I can't say it,

1469
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:02,639
Speaker 2: can't spell it out.

1470
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 1: Literally more movie magic in a way that's slightly less lethal.

1471
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 1: That skywriting effect was achieved by production using a hypodermic

1472
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: needle filled with dye in a tank of cloudy water,

1473
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 1: which I think is really cool. Uh, they had to

1474
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:21,519
Speaker 1: write the words backwards in order to be filmed. I

1475
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,720
Speaker 1: don't really know why that is, but I'm sure if

1476
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:25,080
Speaker 1: I stopped and thought about it for a while, I

1477
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: could figure it out, but I'm.

1478
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 2: Not because when you ran the film forwards, it would

1479
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,479
Speaker 2: be appearing. Or did I just say something that makes

1480
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:35,000
Speaker 2: me sound even stupider. Yeah, they were there appearing. You know,

1481
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:37,160
Speaker 2: it's like they write them out. What if they ran

1482
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 2: it a different way, then they would disappear a third

1483
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 2: there to four undiscovered third way?

1484
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: What if the words traveled through time made it so

1485
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:54,799
Speaker 1: that my parents didn't meet, and what if the words

1486
01:17:55,160 --> 01:17:59,720
Speaker 1: have to reunite my parents? Think abouting it back to me? Yeah, no,

1487
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 1: I put a treatment together. How about my desk by Monday?

1488
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,160
Speaker 2: Getting my cigar in your face? Get out there and work,

1489
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 2: you fat pig. There was another scene that was cut.

1490
01:18:15,640 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 1: This is incredible because all I can think of is

1491
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:20,280
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage where the wicked witch covers the tin Man

1492
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: with bees in order to turn him into a beehive.

1493
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 2: Which rules that is awesome. Not the bees. Yeah, they're

1494
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:31,880
Speaker 2: my eyes from the inside. That would have been so

1495
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 2: cool and so actually horrifying because you know, they just

1496
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:36,559
Speaker 2: would have thrown bees at him.

1497
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Like oh yeah, he's wearing like like

1498
01:18:40,320 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 1: illuminum pace, so I won't get his skin.

1499
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's fine, just like literally thrown you know, yeah,

1500
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 2: just pelting him with Oh my god, god movie magic.

1501
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 2: I believe they filmed that too. I have no so

1502
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 2: they actually did just throw bees at him. Yeah, I don't.

1503
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. I've not been able. Yeah, looked that

1504
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 2: up right, I should have looked into that more. Okay.

1505
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 1: In the final cut of the movie, there is a

1506
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 1: line where a wicked witch threatens to turn the tin

1507
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: Man into a beehive. Apparently she made good on it

1508
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 1: and the director's cut and unfortunately that footage is nowhere

1509
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:18,640
Speaker 1: to be seen. All the cut footage was destroyed. I mean,

1510
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:20,839
Speaker 1: we talked about this in the first episode. The studio

1511
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 1: wasn't sentimental about this stuff. They didn't care that they

1512
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,799
Speaker 1: had priceless props like the ruby slippers and the lions helt.

1513
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,320
Speaker 2: Oh they were animated. Oh really?

1514
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually surprised they took the trouble.

1515
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:35,120
Speaker 2: That's a bummer. Wow.

1516
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1517
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:37,920
Speaker 2: Well.

1518
01:19:37,960 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 1: The most infamous loss scene in The Wizard of Oz

1519
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 1: it's actually also teased in the film's dialogue, is the

1520
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:47,519
Speaker 1: legendary Jitterbug musical number. It's fairly famous because it was

1521
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:51,439
Speaker 1: extremely elaborate. It took five weeks to film and cost

1522
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 1: eighty thousand dollars or one point four million in today's money,

1523
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,680
Speaker 1: and now it's totally lost. I think there's like like

1524
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 1: some really shake eat janky behind the scenes footage, but

1525
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:05,200
Speaker 1: that's all the song and dance musical number was meant

1526
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:07,519
Speaker 1: to take place. As Dorothy and her friends approach the

1527
01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: Witch's castle just before the flying monkeys fly in to

1528
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:13,519
Speaker 1: attack the haunted forest. All those words mean nothing to me.

1529
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 1: In the final thing, the Witch can be heard telling

1530
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:18,559
Speaker 1: her flying monkey guard winky guard. I don't know why

1531
01:20:18,600 --> 01:20:20,519
Speaker 1: they call them winkies. I think that's an L frank

1532
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,120
Speaker 1: bomb thing. They'll give you no trouble. I promise you

1533
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 1: that I've sent a little insect on ahead to take

1534
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:26,200
Speaker 1: the fight.

1535
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:26,640
Speaker 2: Out of them.

1536
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 1: And so in the final cut of the movie, those

1537
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 1: words seem meaningless, right, But in the original version you

1538
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: see that the wicked Witch has dispatched a bug to

1539
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 1: make them dance until they collapse with fatigue, which I

1540
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: believe is the plot of They shoot horses, don't they?

1541
01:20:42,439 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: It's like a dust bowl era dance off, well, like

1542
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 1: the dancing until you die thing is like a that's

1543
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:51,840
Speaker 1: like recognized back into medieval literature that they have the

1544
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:52,800
Speaker 1: Saint Vitas Dance.

1545
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,639
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they called the Saint Vitus Dance. It's where

1546
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 2: the heavy metal band and then the bar that I

1547
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:01,080
Speaker 2: believe is now closed got its name. Yeah. And that

1548
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:03,840
Speaker 2: stuff's actually really interesting too, because they it was like

1549
01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 2: whole towns that would start dancing like seemingly for no

1550
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 2: reason and just kind of do that until they collapsed,

1551
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 2: and it was People have positive that it was different,

1552
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:17,280
Speaker 2: like kinds of religious ecstasy that it happened, or church

1553
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 2: services or something. But the more out there and strangely

1554
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 2: plausible and kind of cool theory is that it would

1555
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: happen when the grain supplies went bad. Because one of

1556
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 2: the kinds of fung guy that LSD is derived from

1557
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 2: is Barga. I think, yeah, right, is off is derived

1558
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:39,160
Speaker 2: from Rye. So they would talk about like basically the

1559
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:42,320
Speaker 2: whole town was like tripping on acid and just dancing

1560
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 2: around until they all collapsed because they were all unintentionally

1561
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:48,679
Speaker 2: poisoned with LSD. Wow.

1562
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:52,880
Speaker 1: There's a similar story of a ghost ship called the

1563
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 1: Mary Celeste. It went missing in the I want to say,

1564
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:00,920
Speaker 1: like the eighteen seventies, I think somewhere around and then

1565
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 1: it was eventually found months later, and it was boarded

1566
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:07,519
Speaker 1: and the ship was completely empty, and they couldn't figure

1567
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:09,760
Speaker 1: out why because everything looked fine, and there were all

1568
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,640
Speaker 1: these theories about maybe it was mutiny, maybe it was this,

1569
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 1: or was that. But they did look at some of

1570
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:14,800
Speaker 1: the food supply.

1571
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:18,360
Speaker 2: And there was a kind of probably our good, I

1572
01:22:18,360 --> 01:22:19,120
Speaker 2: don't know, some kind of.

1573
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:22,519
Speaker 1: Fungus on it that was deemed to have maybe made

1574
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,240
Speaker 1: the people go crazy or have some kind of visions

1575
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 1: or something that would have affected.

1576
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,120
Speaker 2: Them to make them want to abandon the ship. And

1577
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,559
Speaker 2: that's one of the possible explanations. We should do an

1578
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 2: episode just on ghost chips. Oh my god, I would

1579
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:37,439
Speaker 2: love that. I love ships. I know you do boats.

1580
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:44,639
Speaker 2: Please ships for my father. Ships They beat me too. Yeah. Yeah.

1581
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: So this dance sequence and the Wizard of Oz, they

1582
01:22:48,560 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 1: danced at the Jitterbug.

1583
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 2: Get it, I do bog jitter but yeah.

1584
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 1: The scene was caught by producers who not only were

1585
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: worried that slowed down the movie, but they also this

1586
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: is weirdly pressure. They felt strange about shoehorning in a

1587
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,879
Speaker 1: scene that revolved around a contemporary dance craze. The Jitterbug

1588
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 1: was very big in the late thirties, and they were

1589
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 1: worried with date it. Yeah, but it would take away

1590
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,040
Speaker 1: from its timelessness, which I thought was very considering. A

1591
01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 1: lot of these movies were fairly disposable at the time

1592
01:23:16,520 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 1: in a pre home video world. Yeah, I thought that

1593
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 1: showed an uncharacteristic degree of foresight.

1594
01:23:24,120 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1595
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 1: So the scene was cut and the master is believed

1596
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 1: to be lost, And while the audio for the song

1597
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 1: exists on record, only a few grainy behind the scenes

1598
01:23:31,479 --> 01:23:34,800
Speaker 1: shots of the sequence have survived. However, and this is

1599
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:37,479
Speaker 1: kind of weird. The song would make its triumphant official

1600
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 1: debut in the OZ canon in twenty sixteen, when an

1601
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:44,479
Speaker 1: animated Tom and Jerry feature called Tom and Jerry Back

1602
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:45,480
Speaker 1: to OZ.

1603
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,679
Speaker 2: Received a straight to video release.

1604
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 1: Jitterbug appeared in the movies a fully animated sequence, marking

1605
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:56,599
Speaker 1: the song's film debut seventy seven years after being cut

1606
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:58,080
Speaker 1: from the original movie.

1607
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 2: So my question is this, there are melee weapons in OZ, right,

1608
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 2: Like we take that? What's that? Like a spear? Like

1609
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 2: the guards have spears? And right, do you think the

1610
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 2: wizard has a gun? I thought he had some. Well,

1611
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 2: he has the voice, right, big Robot, but he has a.

1612
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: Flamethrower essentially because he's got those two flames on the

1613
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 1: side of his like weird head projection thing, and so

1614
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:24,880
Speaker 1: I would assume we would have the technology to have

1615
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 1: a flame thrower.

1616
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:28,760
Speaker 2: He's got those well sure, but I mean, like, what

1617
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,600
Speaker 2: if I came to Oz with a gun, I'd be

1618
01:24:31,640 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 2: a god among men.

1619
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,639
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, now I'm trying to think. Because Glinda

1620
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:37,360
Speaker 1: the Goodwitch has the bubble, do we think that that bubble.

1621
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 2: Is like a it's like a force field? Yeah, yeah,

1622
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe it's just for transportation. Why are

1623
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 2: they so scared of the Witch's just scary? How does

1624
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 2: she kill people?

1625
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:51,680
Speaker 1: She shoots flames? She shoots fire from her fingers too.

1626
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:54,519
Speaker 1: Remember when she's like right by the ruby slippers and

1627
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 1: she starts shooting fire from her fingertips. I mean yeah,

1628
01:24:58,439 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 1: but like crappy nineteen thre fire, not like like good

1629
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 1: fire twenty first century Union fire. Yeah, yeah, not like

1630
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:11,519
Speaker 1: the kind of our boys make, uh, not the kind

1631
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:16,120
Speaker 1: I won the war? Do you think she was, like

1632
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,320
Speaker 1: does she have like Darth Vader powers? I guess it's

1633
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 1: really what I'm drying.

1634
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 2: Like cycle, like like the pinch thing. Yeah, or does

1635
01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:24,640
Speaker 2: she have anything or just like it's just like, oh,

1636
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 2: like she does, she's me, She's got yeah. She she

1637
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 2: has a deft way with a bond mot and makes

1638
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 2: sparks from her fingers like what, I don't I don't know.

1639
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:37,439
Speaker 1: It's all just that she can like like summon seeing

1640
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,519
Speaker 1: where anybody is through her crystal ball at anytime and

1641
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: do what with that information? And she commands an army,

1642
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:45,599
Speaker 1: she commands the flying monkey's army, so like, but that's power.

1643
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 2: I guess that's supernatural. I see. Well I guess, well, yeah, yeah,

1644
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,479
Speaker 2: I mean I guess I don't know why the I

1645
01:25:52,520 --> 01:25:54,680
Speaker 2: guess monkeys are pretty threatening, you know, like if they

1646
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:56,880
Speaker 2: were flying chimps, you know, they could like they rip

1647
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:58,439
Speaker 2: faces off, they do terrible things.

1648
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,719
Speaker 1: Well you read the books though, at least the Wicked books,

1649
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:02,400
Speaker 1: so I would assume, No.

1650
01:26:02,520 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't now, I mean, well, that's the

1651
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 2: thing is that's not canon. That was all like, that's

1652
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 2: just all Gregory Maguire made up. So like in the

1653
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,640
Speaker 2: original OZ books, Like, I don't know, is there a

1654
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 2: scene where is there like a nine to eleven in OZ?

1655
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 1: I mean I would imagine a house I guess they

1656
01:26:18,760 --> 01:26:20,920
Speaker 1: celebrated the Witch's deaths of never Mind.

1657
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a good nine eleven. Uh yeah, I know,

1658
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1659
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: You know, what's been so long as I sat down

1660
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 1: and watched this, I don't really remember why the Munchkins

1661
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:31,839
Speaker 1: find the Wicked Witch so threatening.

1662
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, like if somebody was like, oh, she killed a

1663
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 2: bunch of people, or she, you know, blew up the

1664
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 2: World Oz Center or the Alfred p Ozza building.

1665
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:47,760
Speaker 1: Why is the Wicked Witch so feared? Let's see the

1666
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 1: AI overview, which I did not request, no, you never do.

1667
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:55,599
Speaker 1: Is feared because of her immense magical power. I understand

1668
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:58,880
Speaker 1: cruel nature, which is pairs very poorly with magical power

1669
01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:02,759
Speaker 1: and relentless suit of Dorothy, combined with her menacing appearance

1670
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,080
Speaker 1: and the chilling way she uses her magic to inflict

1671
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:07,760
Speaker 1: harm on others. Okay, see there you go, making her

1672
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:13,000
Speaker 1: a terrifying and formidable villain unrelenting malice. Yeah, it's portrayed

1673
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:16,240
Speaker 1: as purely evil with a strong desire to cause harm. Okay,

1674
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:20,400
Speaker 1: powerful magic a wide range of magical abilities, including but

1675
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: not limited to, controlling flying monkeys, conjuring storms. I could

1676
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 1: see conjuring storm killing the crops.

1677
01:27:28,240 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess if Yeah, you're in agrarian society.

1678
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:35,320
Speaker 1: Casting spells, which allows her to inflict a significant damage

1679
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:39,320
Speaker 1: on those who oppose her vengeful motivation. Yes, because Dorothy

1680
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: killed her sister. Okay, yeah, symbolism of fear in the

1681
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 1: film The Wicked, which often represents the fear of the

1682
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:48,679
Speaker 1: unknown and the power of unchecked evil.

1683
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:52,960
Speaker 2: Okay, well calm down here, professor. Let's you know, we're

1684
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 2: not doing lit analysis here. I want to know, like

1685
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 2: what her atrocities were. Yeah, I don't I would ask

1686
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 2: you about atrocities. Yeah, well, thank you. No, I don't know.

1687
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,160
Speaker 2: I I mean, obviously, look, it's a fantasy series, so

1688
01:28:09,400 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 2: she we're not going to talk to she like, you know,

1689
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 2: flayed people in the town square. But I would like

1690
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 2: to have that intimation in there other than her fingers

1691
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:22,880
Speaker 2: spark But the storm thing makes a lot of sense. Sparking.

1692
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 2: If you're suddenly devastated by a tornado and you look

1693
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:29,519
Speaker 2: up and there's Margaret Hamilton saying I did that, I

1694
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,640
Speaker 2: would fear her, yeah, or a try out. Yeah, but

1695
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 2: you start to answer my first question of what if

1696
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 2: I went to OZ with a gun? Would that be

1697
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 2: new technology to them, would I become all powerful?

1698
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that their technology seems to be frozen at

1699
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 1: like turn of the century. So I bet you they've

1700
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:52,800
Speaker 1: probably seen like single shot muskets. Oh interesting, maybe a

1701
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 1: six shooter Okay, but yeah, I don't know if you

1702
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:57,799
Speaker 1: got like an AK forty seven or something.

1703
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:01,639
Speaker 2: I think that you can probably lay waste to a yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,

1704
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 2: all right. This is an interesting point though, that I

1705
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:05,960
Speaker 2: actually hadn't thought of.

1706
01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:08,560
Speaker 1: According to Raymond Knapp, who's writing in the book The

1707
01:29:08,600 --> 01:29:12,080
Speaker 1: American Musical and the Performance of Personal Identity, Ding Dong,

1708
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:15,320
Speaker 1: the Witch is Dead. The song vented the anger and

1709
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:18,799
Speaker 1: frustration that had built up after the massive stock crash

1710
01:29:19,160 --> 01:29:21,919
Speaker 1: which all but broke the human spirit in the thirties.

1711
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: And he goes on to compare of the Wizard, who's

1712
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 1: a con man with a lot of empty promises, to

1713
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 1: President Herbert Hoover, whose big promises to relieve the depression

1714
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:35,120
Speaker 1: were mostly empty. That's interesting, got his ass never thought

1715
01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:39,440
Speaker 1: of that? Yeah, all right, well, okay, we're making connections.

1716
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:46,040
Speaker 1: We are we are speaking of connections, the rainbow connection speaking, Yeah,

1717
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:48,600
Speaker 1: a different song about rainbows. One of the scenes that

1718
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,320
Speaker 1: was on the chopping bark, and very nearly lost was

1719
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:54,679
Speaker 1: the scene in which Judy Garland sings the Immortal Somewhere

1720
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:58,240
Speaker 1: Over the Rainbow, the deathless anthem of optimism for the

1721
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 1: clinically burned out as you bummed out well Fordian slip there.

1722
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: The song was written by composer Harold Arlen and lyricist

1723
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 1: Edgar yip Harburg, who spent most of their days golfing

1724
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 1: and playing tennis, preferring to work at night.

1725
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:20,520
Speaker 2: What a Life. Yip Harburg also played a large uncredited

1726
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,640
Speaker 2: role in developing the screenplay, and so many of his

1727
01:30:22,760 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 2: words had to dovetail with the script. Harberg claimed his

1728
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 2: lyrical inspiration for Over the Rainbow was quote a ballad

1729
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,719
Speaker 2: for a little girl who was in trouble and wanted

1730
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 2: to get away from Kansas, a dry, arid, colorless place.

1731
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 2: She had never seen anything colorful in her life except

1732
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 2: the Rainbow. Is one of the last pieces of music

1733
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:42,320
Speaker 2: written for the film. Harold Arlem is out for drive

1734
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 2: on Sunset Boulevard with his wife when inspiration finally came.

1735
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:47,760
Speaker 2: He was in the habit of carrying around manuscript paper,

1736
01:30:47,800 --> 01:30:51,160
Speaker 2: so they pulled over the legendary Schwabz drug store. Is

1737
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:57,680
Speaker 2: that near Poopies on the Strip? I'll puss that in.

1738
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 3: We all hung out in the coffee shop called Poopies

1739
01:31:01,439 --> 01:31:02,320
Speaker 3: up on the Strip.

1740
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,559
Speaker 2: Genuinely, I don't know. Sun Said Boulevard that far from

1741
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 2: the Strip.

1742
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:07,760
Speaker 1: Sunset Boulevard is the Strip.

1743
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:10,800
Speaker 2: He's the Strip, right, Okay, I don't anything about La.

1744
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,160
Speaker 2: We got to go to LA together, must we. We'd

1745
01:31:13,160 --> 01:31:15,760
Speaker 2: have a good time. I mean, yeah, we would. We'll

1746
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 2: just do a boys' trip to LA like a long weekend.

1747
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, I think you all sorts of

1748
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 1: we can look at the ruby slippers.

1749
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 2: Wow, that's gonna be our pots so underwhelmed together, got

1750
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 2: tevy drinks.

1751
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 1: It's a weird teeky plays. So go to the go

1752
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 1: to the l Coyote or Sharon taytaut our last meal.

1753
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 2: Oh, we'll get stuck in traffic together. I'll snap at

1754
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,599
Speaker 2: you and you'll flinch at the sound of my voice

1755
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:46,679
Speaker 2: for the rest of the weekend. Anyway.

1756
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:49,400
Speaker 1: That was the I learned how to use Google Maps

1757
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: driving in Los Angeles for the first time in like

1758
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,719
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. I'd never used I didn't have an iPhone

1759
01:31:54,720 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 1: at the time, and I didn't like understand the blue.

1760
01:31:57,600 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 2: Dot and just how it all worked.

1761
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:02,160
Speaker 1: And I was trying to and like my girlfriend was driving,

1762
01:32:02,240 --> 01:32:04,679
Speaker 1: or maybe I was driving and I was I forget.

1763
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 1: It was just an absolute disaster. I developed a driving

1764
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:09,840
Speaker 1: phobia for a time. I'm kind of past it now.

1765
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:12,120
Speaker 1: And it started then as me trying to figure out

1766
01:32:12,160 --> 01:32:14,559
Speaker 1: what this blue dot meant while navigating like the four

1767
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:15,040
Speaker 1: O five.

1768
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,680
Speaker 2: It was awful. You're like an Amish man, like the

1769
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 2: blue dot is me and my soul is in there.

1770
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:23,080
Speaker 2: You let this machine into our home.

1771
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:23,680
Speaker 3: Oh.

1772
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 2: She was just getting so pissed at me.

1773
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:26,880
Speaker 1: And then like, of course, the more stress they get,

1774
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 1: the more I can't do simple tasks.

1775
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 2: And it was terrible. Oh my god. Anyway, Interestingly, the

1776
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:34,519
Speaker 2: bridge of the song Someday I wish upon a star

1777
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:36,320
Speaker 2: and wake up where the clouds are far behind me

1778
01:32:41,960 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 2: after children's piano exercise.

1779
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, hence the half steps. Yeah, a half step trips.

1780
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:50,840
Speaker 1: Probably learning how to do a trill. Yeah, probably on

1781
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:54,080
Speaker 1: the opposite end of the sophistication spectrum. A rare strativarius

1782
01:32:54,160 --> 01:32:57,639
Speaker 1: violin was used to record the orchestral accompaniment. It's probably

1783
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 1: worth the entire butchet of the film.

1784
01:33:01,479 --> 01:33:03,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was probably played by some guy who fled

1785
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 2: Europe like the week before. Wow, yeah, yeah, I mean seriously,

1786
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 2: the La fell San Francisco, Phill, I'll have like the

1787
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 2: enormity of the European That's why the European Classic. One

1788
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,600
Speaker 2: of the reasons why the European classical tradition became so

1789
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 2: strong here was that it was stronger in Europe first,

1790
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:24,800
Speaker 2: and then all of those people fled over here and

1791
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:27,720
Speaker 2: started teaching and playing. Whoa yeah. I mean not that

1792
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:29,720
Speaker 2: we didn't have it before, but like when people talk

1793
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 2: about like Leonard Bernstein being like Lenny, When people talk

1794
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 2: about Lenny being somebody told him you could be the

1795
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:40,360
Speaker 2: first great American conductor, Like, it's because Europe was just like, well,

1796
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 2: what does America have like hmm, race records and uh,

1797
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 2: you know string bands like rag time music? Is rag

1798
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:52,639
Speaker 2: time viewed as race records? Yeah? Well, I mean yes

1799
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,600
Speaker 2: initially because it came off of rag time? Isn't is

1800
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,880
Speaker 2: a shortening of ragged time, which was what they called syncopation?

1801
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,960
Speaker 2: And I think, wow, and I think that it's all

1802
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 2: a matter of what got where, right, because like I

1803
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:10,120
Speaker 2: assume some of the best selling Scott Joplin stuff did

1804
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:12,640
Speaker 2: make it out there because like Stravinsky and like, you know,

1805
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:16,280
Speaker 2: guys like Stravinsky were hearing like when they got here

1806
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:19,040
Speaker 2: and started hearing jazz, they loved it. Like you know,

1807
01:34:19,080 --> 01:34:22,080
Speaker 2: there's this story about Stravinsky going to Birdland to see

1808
01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,680
Speaker 2: Charlie Parker playing Charlie Parker recognized Charlie Parker recognized him,

1809
01:34:25,720 --> 01:34:28,679
Speaker 2: and he quoted the Firebird Suite in one of his solos,

1810
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:31,400
Speaker 2: and Stravinsky like lost it and flipped over the table,

1811
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 2: like laughing and cheering. That's amazing.

1812
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:39,759
Speaker 1: Wow, it's insane to think of those people sharing a time,

1813
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:40,960
Speaker 1: let alone a space.

1814
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's I mean, it's so funny when they

1815
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 2: talk about, you know, with all this stuff about Nosfaratu. Recently,

1816
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:48,880
Speaker 2: someone was talking about how in Nosfaratu the or in

1817
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:53,000
Speaker 2: the original Dracula, the Van Heusen character is like the

1818
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:56,519
Speaker 2: one who gets all the credit as this vampire hunting archetype.

1819
01:34:56,520 --> 01:35:00,240
Speaker 2: But in that book there's like an American cowboy who

1820
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 2: comes as part of like Jonathan Harker's boys, and the

1821
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:05,639
Speaker 2: cowboys like, well, why don't I just chop his head

1822
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:08,040
Speaker 2: off with my big knife I carry everywhere Because I'm

1823
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 2: an American cowboy, and that is actually what happens. He does,

1824
01:35:11,840 --> 01:35:14,720
Speaker 2: indeed cut Dracula's head off with his big bowie knife

1825
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:19,800
Speaker 2: he carries everywhere. And some have theorized that that is

1826
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 2: based on Teddy Roosevelt because oh wow, I think Bram Stoke,

1827
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,040
Speaker 2: I think, if I remember correctly, Bram Stoker and Teddy

1828
01:35:27,080 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 2: Roosevelt knew each other. And so bram Stoker was like, well,

1829
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 2: I gotta put my friend Teddy in this book. Is

1830
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:35,040
Speaker 2: this big dick swinging cowboy who just chops Dracula's head off?

1831
01:35:35,120 --> 01:35:40,320
Speaker 2: That's sweet, you know. And then there's yeah, so, and

1832
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 2: then there's stuff like Dracula could have conceivably tasted Coca cola,

1833
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,400
Speaker 2: Yes that I have heard, you know, I like that,

1834
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 2: So maybe he wouldn't have needed blood.

1835
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:52,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a game that my friend Morgan and I

1836
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:57,040
Speaker 1: play of. Like so and so lived until nineteen seventy seven,

1837
01:35:57,040 --> 01:35:59,559
Speaker 1: they would have seen the release of Greece, Like, yeah,

1838
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:03,800
Speaker 1: you know, it's just weird stuff like that. Yeah, Like oh,

1839
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:06,360
Speaker 1: Buddy Epsen, the tin Man, like Saw nine to eleven.

1840
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:12,960
Speaker 2: You know, what did he think?

1841
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:15,719
Speaker 1: Why didn't they throw to him for a quote? What's

1842
01:36:16,040 --> 01:36:20,120
Speaker 1: just what is what is Buddy Ebsen this ninety two

1843
01:36:20,240 --> 01:36:25,880
Speaker 1: year old? I mean like Mickey Rooney saw like Gagnum style.

1844
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, wow, you sure did. And Vine one of

1845
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:33,680
Speaker 2: these munchkins saw Lil naz X. Yes that's correct. Yeah,

1846
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 2: think about that, why don't you? Okay? Anyway, when the

1847
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,160
Speaker 2: producers were looking to make cuts to tighten up the movie,

1848
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,000
Speaker 2: Over the Rainbow was one of the first scenes that

1849
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:44,400
Speaker 2: they considered cutting because they felt it slowed down the

1850
01:36:44,439 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 2: pace of the movie and would go over the heads

1851
01:36:46,360 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 2: of the kids who were the intended audience, which, to

1852
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:52,679
Speaker 2: be fair, it does. It is a draggy torch song. Yeah,

1853
01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 2: I remember being really bored by it as a kid. Well,

1854
01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:56,839
Speaker 2: you know, when you're a kid, you just don't understand

1855
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:58,679
Speaker 2: how hard it is to just hop from one octave

1856
01:36:58,720 --> 01:37:02,439
Speaker 2: to the next. They were also worried about letting Garland

1857
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:07,000
Speaker 2: sing in a barnyard, which they believed was quote degrading.

1858
01:37:07,360 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 1: I never thought about that until researching this. It never

1859
01:37:10,160 --> 01:37:10,680
Speaker 1: occurred to me.

1860
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,760
Speaker 2: They're shoving pills down this girl's throat and slapping her

1861
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:15,760
Speaker 2: on the face because they don't like her acting. But

1862
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:17,559
Speaker 2: they're like, we can't let her sing in a barnyard,

1863
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:18,559
Speaker 2: otherwise people will.

1864
01:37:18,439 --> 01:37:20,759
Speaker 1: Talk, and she says a little pitchy with those rubber

1865
01:37:20,840 --> 01:37:24,519
Speaker 1: things up her nose. Don't work on that, But don't worry.

1866
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:25,719
Speaker 1: We'll keep her out of the barnyard.

1867
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:29,400
Speaker 2: Producer Mervin Leroy, his assistant Arthur Freed, who was himself

1868
01:37:29,439 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 2: a musician, and director Victor Fleming believe that losing the

1869
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,320
Speaker 2: song would be losing the emotional heart of the Kansas

1870
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:37,200
Speaker 2: sequence and fought hard to keep it in, apparently getting

1871
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 2: into a screaming match with Louis B. Mayer. Shockingly, during

1872
01:37:40,320 --> 01:37:43,760
Speaker 2: this no one was killed. I know, seriously, just like

1873
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:46,479
Speaker 2: they're like special testing. He's like, I brought this new

1874
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:48,040
Speaker 2: effect in that we're going to use on Gom with

1875
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:52,400
Speaker 2: the wind. It's just like an actual cannon goes off

1876
01:37:52,439 --> 01:37:57,559
Speaker 2: in his office. It's like, what do you want? Yeah, yeah, Instead,

1877
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:00,719
Speaker 2: they cut the reprize of over the Range that Dorothy

1878
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:04,439
Speaker 2: sings while imprisoned in The Wicked, which is lair. Apparently,

1879
01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:06,519
Speaker 2: when Garland sang that version, she and the rest of

1880
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:08,960
Speaker 2: the cast just began to weep because the scene of

1881
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:11,639
Speaker 2: her singing that in a prison was simply so depressing.

1882
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:15,600
Speaker 2: Despite this, Judy always cherished Over the Rainbow. Later in

1883
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:17,679
Speaker 2: her life, she wrote a letter to composer Harold Arlend

1884
01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:21,120
Speaker 2: detailing what the song meant to her. Over the Rainbow

1885
01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 2: has become part of my life, she wrote. It's so

1886
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 2: symbolic of everyone's dreams and wishes that I'm sure that's

1887
01:38:26,360 --> 01:38:27,960
Speaker 2: why some people get tears in their eyes when they

1888
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:30,280
Speaker 2: hear it. I've sung it thousands of times, and it's

1889
01:38:30,280 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 2: still the song that's closest to my heart. Her daughter

1890
01:38:33,240 --> 01:38:36,320
Speaker 2: Lorna Luft described it as the most perfect marriage of

1891
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,599
Speaker 2: a song and an artist that's ever been. And speaking

1892
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:45,960
Speaker 2: of depressing, let's talk about another depressing thing. Over the Rainbow.

1893
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:49,160
Speaker 2: Probably the most famous cover version of it is performed

1894
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:56,040
Speaker 2: by famed Hawaiian obesity victim Israel Kamaka wuwo Ole, who

1895
01:38:56,160 --> 01:38:58,600
Speaker 2: mashed it up with What a Wonderful World back in

1896
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety three. Apparently, he called a small Hawaiian recording

1897
01:39:02,240 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 2: studio belonging to one Milan Bartosa at three am insisted

1898
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:09,920
Speaker 2: he had to come in and record this cover. Now,

1899
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:12,719
Speaker 2: most people would have said no, why are you talking

1900
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:15,280
Speaker 2: to me at this hour? Most people would have said no.

1901
01:39:15,880 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 2: But this man known as Iz was so charming that

1902
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 2: Milan agreed to give him thirty minutes. As Milan would

1903
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:23,400
Speaker 2: later recall in Walk's the largest human being I had

1904
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life. Israel was probably like five

1905
01:39:26,280 --> 01:39:28,479
Speaker 2: hundred pounds. And the first thing at hand is to

1906
01:39:28,520 --> 01:39:31,160
Speaker 2: find something for him to sit on. The security guard

1907
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:34,160
Speaker 2: gave Israel a large steel chair. Then, as Milam would say,

1908
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:36,519
Speaker 2: I put up some microphones, do a quick sound check

1909
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 2: roll tape, and the first thing he does is somewhere

1910
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 2: over the rainbow. He played and sang one take and

1911
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 2: it was over. Unfortunately, is Isa's reputation is one of

1912
01:39:46,120 --> 01:39:49,200
Speaker 2: the most popular Hawaii musicians, was mostly posthumous. He died

1913
01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:52,679
Speaker 2: in Honolulu from complications of his morbid obesity on June

1914
01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:55,880
Speaker 2: twenty sixth, nineteen ninety seven, at the age of thirty eight.

1915
01:39:56,479 --> 01:40:01,680
Speaker 2: Voice of an angel. Yes, as you meditate on that,

1916
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 2: we'll be right back with more. Too much information after

1917
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:16,960
Speaker 2: these messages, well back to the Wizard of Oz.

1918
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:19,479
Speaker 1: Speaking of editing, this is sort of as good at

1919
01:40:19,479 --> 01:40:21,880
Speaker 1: place as any dimension that the Wizard of Oz is

1920
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:26,920
Speaker 1: chalk full of continuity errors. Cinema Sin's voice, it's tempting

1921
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:28,760
Speaker 1: to wonder if it's a result of this thing having

1922
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:31,400
Speaker 1: nine hundred directors over the course of his production, but

1923
01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:34,280
Speaker 1: I don't believe that's the case. One of the most

1924
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:37,719
Speaker 1: obvious errors is the length of Dorothy's pigtails, which varies

1925
01:40:37,880 --> 01:40:40,680
Speaker 1: wildly throughout the film, particularly in the scene where she

1926
01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 1: meets the Scarecrow. Different angles have for braids at very

1927
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 1: different lengths. Props more for vanish such as Dorothy's bouquet

1928
01:40:49,080 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: from the Munchkins that just disappear after she's handed it,

1929
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 1: all the moment when the tin Man's spear magically transformed

1930
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 1: into an axe. It was also a shot in the

1931
01:40:58,400 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: scene when Dorothy and co or leeing the apple throwing

1932
01:41:01,080 --> 01:41:04,559
Speaker 1: trees where she's wearing black shoes instead of the ruby slippers.

1933
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:05,360
Speaker 2: Gasp.

1934
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:09,559
Speaker 1: But predictably, the audiences did not care about these minor errors.

1935
01:41:10,040 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 1: As you mentioned earlier, The Wizard of Oz was released

1936
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:16,400
Speaker 1: in the three test markets Kenosha, Wisconsin, where Arson Wells

1937
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:20,599
Speaker 1: grew up, and Dennis, Massachusetts on the Cape on August eleventh,

1938
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:23,920
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, and then at the Strand Theater in

1939
01:41:24,479 --> 01:41:29,800
Speaker 1: go ahead and say this, buddy, oh Okanama Walk, Wisconsin.

1940
01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:32,960
Speaker 2: Nice. I actually think that was fairly close you did.

1941
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:36,400
Speaker 2: The name was derived from who no Moe walk the powa,

1942
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:40,559
Speaker 2: tommy term for waterfall. Oh nice, Well that's the place

1943
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:41,679
Speaker 2: where the Wizard of Oz.

1944
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 1: The Final Cut had its third screening on August twelfth,

1945
01:41:45,080 --> 01:41:48,800
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine. Interestingly, the original trailers didn't use any

1946
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:52,200
Speaker 1: of the Kansas sequences because MGM execs wanted moviegoers to

1947
01:41:52,240 --> 01:41:54,160
Speaker 1: think the entire film was in technicolor.

1948
01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 2: Imagine how pissed you would be if you.

1949
01:41:56,120 --> 01:41:59,800
Speaker 1: Got in thinking it was gonna be this technicolor extravaganza,

1950
01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:03,280
Speaker 1: and for the first twenty minutes it was this dreary

1951
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:05,160
Speaker 1: Sepia barnyard.

1952
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:09,760
Speaker 2: This is my regular life. Yeah, oh wait, wait, wait, wait,

1953
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:15,000
Speaker 2: wait wait. The State Cartographer's Office of Wisconsin has released

1954
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 2: a new online map called Pronounce Wisconsin.

1955
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 1: And you click every town and it reads it to you.

1956
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Incredible. I gots zoom in where the oakmal Look?

1957
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:30,320
Speaker 2: Where is this place? Wisconsin? It's a big state, Jordan,

1958
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:33,640
Speaker 2: I don't know. Google it tell me which part to

1959
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:34,560
Speaker 2: click around.

1960
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:38,640
Speaker 1: In Okay Southeast just outside of Milwaukee Economy.

1961
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:40,160
Speaker 2: Here. I'll do it again.

1962
01:42:42,040 --> 01:42:44,439
Speaker 1: So instead of an arsen Val soundboard, I can hear

1963
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,120
Speaker 1: it when you play you don't have to do that, Milwaukee.

1964
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 2: No, I can't.

1965
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:52,400
Speaker 1: You don't have to do that, Milwaukee.

1966
01:42:53,439 --> 01:43:01,160
Speaker 2: Okay, who what Tosa? Anything else? Clem for you while

1967
01:43:01,160 --> 01:43:02,760
Speaker 2: we're here. I think we're good.

1968
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:06,120
Speaker 1: It would have been much better if it was in

1969
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:07,920
Speaker 1: Alice Cooper's voice for Wayne's world.

1970
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:10,600
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, that would have been they That was

1971
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:14,840
Speaker 2: a missed opportunity. Oconoma walk? How about that Economa walk?

1972
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 2: That's never not gonna be funny? All right, back to

1973
01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:23,240
Speaker 2: this thing we're doing, this thing of ours.

1974
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:26,719
Speaker 1: One version of the poster was emblazoned with the phrase

1975
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: it took two years to planet, which is a hilarious

1976
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:34,240
Speaker 1: bit of chest beating for the studios to use that

1977
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:39,280
Speaker 1: on their promotional materials. For marketing and promotion, MGM spent

1978
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:42,120
Speaker 1: a whopping quarter million dollars, or a tenth of the

1979
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:44,479
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz budget, which is worth five point seven

1980
01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:45,280
Speaker 1: million today.

1981
01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:49,040
Speaker 2: Again, nothing five point seven million that'll get you, like

1982
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:51,160
Speaker 2: what a spot on Good Morning America?

1983
01:43:51,400 --> 01:43:55,200
Speaker 1: Maybe that seems like a fairly high promotional budget today, right?

1984
01:43:55,840 --> 01:43:59,600
Speaker 2: Maybe I thought the log line was that half of

1985
01:43:59,640 --> 01:44:04,200
Speaker 2: a fields like oh, or was that like roughly half

1986
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 2: of what a film's budget was and then it only

1987
01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:09,040
Speaker 2: went up from there.

1988
01:44:09,320 --> 01:44:12,040
Speaker 1: Okay, I guess I can see that, although maybe at

1989
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:14,280
Speaker 1: this time there were just less things to advertise on.

1990
01:44:14,520 --> 01:44:17,680
Speaker 2: I guess that's true. We're talking about radio and newspaper.

1991
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:23,560
Speaker 1: Posters, paper. But wait, this is incredible. This is some

1992
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: like insane bar trivia for you. This is one of

1993
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:29,240
Speaker 1: the most mind blowing facts I learned while researching this. Okay,

1994
01:44:29,479 --> 01:44:34,120
Speaker 1: the OZ promotional team inadvertently birthed a fashion staple that

1995
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:36,960
Speaker 1: we know in love today, the graphic T shirt.

1996
01:44:37,880 --> 01:44:39,160
Speaker 2: This is this is nuts.

1997
01:44:39,680 --> 01:44:41,960
Speaker 1: In the book The History of T Shirts, a book

1998
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:46,240
Speaker 1: that I assume surely must be riveting, author Alyssa Mertis

1999
01:44:46,640 --> 01:44:50,000
Speaker 1: writes that the first ever promotional T shirt was made

2000
01:44:50,040 --> 01:44:52,479
Speaker 1: for the Wizard of Oz and it was a replica

2001
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:54,439
Speaker 1: of the ones that you actually see in the movie

2002
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:57,559
Speaker 1: worn by the citizens of Oz who are re stuffing

2003
01:44:57,600 --> 01:44:58,240
Speaker 1: the scarecrow.

2004
01:44:59,400 --> 01:44:59,559
Speaker 2: Oh.

2005
01:45:00,360 --> 01:45:03,599
Speaker 1: Made by Haynes. It's green and emblazoned with the words

2006
01:45:03,760 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: AWZ in white letters.

2007
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:06,960
Speaker 2: That tracks yeah.

2008
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 1: And I was trying to see if any one of

2009
01:45:09,040 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 1: those were sold at auction.

2010
01:45:11,439 --> 01:45:13,599
Speaker 2: I couldn't find any. They look kind of cool. Were

2011
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 2: they made out of asbestos? Plausible? You've been reading along

2012
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:22,000
Speaker 2: with me, dipped in mercury.

2013
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:26,799
Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz had its Hollywood premiere on August sixteenth,

2014
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:30,560
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, at the famous Graelmin's Chinese Theater, and

2015
01:45:30,640 --> 01:45:33,120
Speaker 1: the New York premiere the next day featured in live

2016
01:45:33,200 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 1: performance by Judy Garland and for some reason, her frequent

2017
01:45:36,960 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 1: on screen partner Mickey Rooney, which he was just there.

2018
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:45,000
Speaker 2: You couldn't like keep that he could have that. No, No,

2019
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:46,679
Speaker 2: for those of you who who.

2020
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:49,559
Speaker 1: Maybe were forgetting from last week's episode, they were frequent

2021
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:52,639
Speaker 1: on screen pairing. In the Andy Hardy series of movies,

2022
01:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,000
Speaker 1: Judy's character is in love with Andy Hardy, played by

2023
01:45:56,080 --> 01:45:58,640
Speaker 1: Mickey Rooney, and in real life, Judy Garland was in

2024
01:45:58,720 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 1: love with Mickey Rooney who rejected her every chance he got.

2025
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: And now she was stepping out on her own and

2026
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:09,679
Speaker 1: becoming a big star or incredible vehicle for her talents,

2027
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:11,439
Speaker 1: and Mary.

2028
01:46:12,040 --> 01:46:15,080
Speaker 2: Had had to be there. Mickey Rooney put his dumb,

2029
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:16,880
Speaker 2: little piggy face into things.

2030
01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:20,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really understand it. Who are like actress

2031
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,160
Speaker 1: and actor duos now that are always together. I'm trying

2032
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:25,960
Speaker 1: to think, Uh, what's his name? The little fellow little

2033
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:30,479
Speaker 1: British guy in Zendia daya Tom Hollands. Yeah, wellpefully the

2034
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:34,280
Speaker 1: dating though, well they're now engaged. But yeah, I don mean,

2035
01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:35,799
Speaker 1: we don't have that anymore.

2036
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 2: I think it's because, like I guess it's because like

2037
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:41,040
Speaker 2: once people started dating outside Hollywood and it became more

2038
01:46:41,080 --> 01:46:43,920
Speaker 2: derigerve for guys to have like model girlfriends or like

2039
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:48,320
Speaker 2: musician girlfriends or vice versa, and you know, it didn't

2040
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:50,800
Speaker 2: really matter who they were with from the studio. I

2041
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:54,439
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't care, Okay, I don't like the idea.

2042
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:56,200
Speaker 2: I will say that I don't like the idea of

2043
01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:58,880
Speaker 2: like these young women who were like I'm going to

2044
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:01,759
Speaker 2: be a big star, and then like some big, sweaty,

2045
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:06,639
Speaker 2: stinky guy like Louis B. Mayers like, here's your studio

2046
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 2: assigned boyfriend. Yeah, look over, and it's like a thirty

2047
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,400
Speaker 2: five year old man with a glandular problem. He's like, hey, Dolly,

2048
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:15,479
Speaker 2: I'm taking you out in the town tonight. Don't scream.

2049
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:16,560
Speaker 3: I like that.

2050
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:25,320
Speaker 2: That only makes me wanted more movie magic exactly.

2051
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 1: You murdering movie magic into my headphones is a top

2052
01:47:31,080 --> 01:47:38,920
Speaker 1: five haunting moment in our entire journey on this show. Well,

2053
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 1: Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney had a residency at the

2054
01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 1: theater where The Wizard of Oz premier to New York

2055
01:47:44,439 --> 01:47:47,519
Speaker 1: for two weeks. They performed a set after every screening,

2056
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:50,320
Speaker 1: which is kind of insane. And then it gets crazier

2057
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:53,719
Speaker 1: because the third week after the New York premiere, Judy

2058
01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:57,480
Speaker 1: was joined by Ray Bolger and Burt Lair the Scarecrow

2059
01:47:57,640 --> 01:48:00,439
Speaker 1: and the Cowardly Lyon for a post screening for its

2060
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:04,440
Speaker 1: Can you imagine watching The Wizard of Oz in technicolor

2061
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:07,559
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine and then having Dorothy, the Scarecrow

2062
01:48:07,640 --> 01:48:10,640
Speaker 1: and Cowardly Line come out live and in person afterwards

2063
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:12,120
Speaker 1: to sing these songs live.

2064
01:48:12,240 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 2: I just think that's awesome. I would have rioted, you know,

2065
01:48:14,880 --> 01:48:16,960
Speaker 2: it would have been too much for my primitive nineteen

2066
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:17,599
Speaker 2: thirties brain.

2067
01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:21,040
Speaker 1: You were still worn over the train coming towards Yeah.

2068
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:23,240
Speaker 2: I was not over that. That's why the mad Bomber

2069
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:27,200
Speaker 2: went on his whole thing. He couldn't handle the star

2070
01:48:27,360 --> 01:48:29,240
Speaker 2: power of the era.

2071
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:33,920
Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz opened nationwide on August twenty fifth,

2072
01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:37,360
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty nine, about a week before the outbreak of

2073
01:48:37,360 --> 01:48:38,040
Speaker 1: World War Two.

2074
01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:38,719
Speaker 2: In Europe.

2075
01:48:39,400 --> 01:48:43,120
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, it received widespread acclaim. The New York Times

2076
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 1: provided my favorite review, thanks to critic Frank Nugent.

2077
01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:48,760
Speaker 2: It's all so well intentioned, so.

2078
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: Genial, and so gay that any reviewer who would look

2079
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 1: down his nose at the fun making should be spanked

2080
01:48:55,880 --> 01:49:02,040
Speaker 1: and sent off supperless to bed. Miss days when that qualified.

2081
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:03,559
Speaker 2: As a review, Oh god.

2082
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 1: He considered it quote a delightful piece of wonderworking which

2083
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:12,000
Speaker 1: had the youngster's eyes shining and brought a quietly amused

2084
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:15,639
Speaker 1: gleam to the wiser ones of the oldsters. Not since

2085
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,639
Speaker 1: Disney Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs says anything quite

2086
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:22,920
Speaker 1: so fantastic succeeded half so well now. The New Yorker,

2087
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:25,719
Speaker 1: on the other hand, that snobby sister of the Gray Lady,

2088
01:49:26,040 --> 01:49:29,599
Speaker 1: was less enthused get her ass. Critic Russell Maloney declared

2089
01:49:29,640 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz.

2090
01:49:30,439 --> 01:49:31,800
Speaker 2: A stinkerroo.

2091
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:37,920
Speaker 1: That appeared in The New Yorker That is worse than Boffo.

2092
01:49:38,439 --> 01:49:40,360
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, you know what in a famous

2093
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:47,639
Speaker 2: pan variety declined to call it boffo. I gotta start

2094
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:48,639
Speaker 2: saying boffo more.

2095
01:49:50,080 --> 01:49:52,559
Speaker 1: That was my uh, that was my twenty twenty five

2096
01:49:52,720 --> 01:49:53,880
Speaker 1: years Resolution.

2097
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:55,920
Speaker 2: Start saying boffo more I thought would have been your

2098
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:59,360
Speaker 2: yearbook quote. One of my favorite tweets of all time.

2099
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:03,320
Speaker 1: Resolution number one start referring to the toilet as the

2100
01:50:03,439 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 1: John the year's resolution number two. Everything else falls into place,

2101
01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:11,840
Speaker 1: and it was on New Year's Eve twenty nineteen too.

2102
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, uh. The New Yorker review.

2103
01:50:17,880 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 1: The New Yorker pan, I should say, continued the movie

2104
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:25,000
Speaker 1: displayed no trace of imagination, good taste, or ingenuity. I

2105
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:31,080
Speaker 1: don't like the Singer midgets under any circumstances, but I

2106
01:50:31,240 --> 01:50:38,599
Speaker 1: found them especially bothersome in technicolor A wow. Yes, It's

2107
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 1: interesting to note that a lot of critics at the

2108
01:50:40,439 --> 01:50:43,439
Speaker 1: time found the special effects in The Wizard of Oz

2109
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:47,400
Speaker 1: to be really distracting, which I guess makes sense considering

2110
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:50,599
Speaker 1: like talkies were only ten years old at that point.

2111
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:53,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean I think critics always generally do,

2112
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:55,760
Speaker 2: I mean, even they think it's a gimmick. Yeah, now

2113
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:59,600
Speaker 2: that I'm trying to like lionize some pieces, like you know,

2114
01:51:00,040 --> 01:51:03,080
Speaker 2: the Polar Express or whatever, but like even you go

2115
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:05,760
Speaker 2: back to like the golden days of like practicals that

2116
01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with, and people are always like Oh, it's

2117
01:51:08,439 --> 01:51:13,439
Speaker 2: a crutch relies on po I can't. I'm not defending

2118
01:51:13,560 --> 01:51:16,400
Speaker 2: polar Express though those are. That is a genuinely soul

2119
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:21,720
Speaker 2: destroying look at technology. You love it though, because you

2120
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:27,840
Speaker 2: love zemchis slut. Yeah, he really after a really fell

2121
01:51:27,880 --> 01:51:32,839
Speaker 2: off God, he fell off hard. A lot of critics also.

2122
01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:35,760
Speaker 1: Weren't fans of the sort of modern updates to the

2123
01:51:35,840 --> 01:51:38,639
Speaker 1: source material, which I find really interesting, like the Wicked

2124
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:42,080
Speaker 1: Witch using her bruin, the skyright over oz. They really

2125
01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:45,760
Speaker 1: objected to the modern to the then modernization of the

2126
01:51:46,120 --> 01:51:48,639
Speaker 1: what were then thirty nine year old books. I find

2127
01:51:48,680 --> 01:51:51,439
Speaker 1: that interesting. I mean, well, the books are written, there

2128
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:52,080
Speaker 1: was no flight.

2129
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:54,240
Speaker 2: Isn't that crazy? I thought you were gonna be like

2130
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:58,040
Speaker 2: there was no sky. I can't get over that thing

2131
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:00,400
Speaker 2: about the what he said about those nice little people.

2132
01:52:01,439 --> 01:52:04,280
Speaker 1: I don't like the Singer midgets under any circumstances, but

2133
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:07,040
Speaker 1: I found them especially bothersome in technicolor.

2134
01:52:08,200 --> 01:52:10,559
Speaker 2: That's a pull quote for the Ages. Yeah.

2135
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:14,160
Speaker 1: The critic for The New Republic Otis Ferguson was also

2136
01:52:14,240 --> 01:52:17,040
Speaker 1: displeased with the Munchkins, believing them to be a transparent

2137
01:52:17,120 --> 01:52:21,080
Speaker 1: attempt to mimic snow White with her seven Dwarves, which

2138
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:22,240
Speaker 1: honestly he.

2139
01:52:22,360 --> 01:52:23,000
Speaker 2: Was right about that.

2140
01:52:23,080 --> 01:52:25,880
Speaker 1: It's a connection I had not considered. Yeah, I mean

2141
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:27,639
Speaker 1: it's a cigar chomping exec moment.

2142
01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:30,799
Speaker 2: Really mean, yeah? No, how meany does Wall have seven?

2143
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:33,960
Speaker 2: Give me a one hundred and twenty four? Bring them

2144
01:52:33,960 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 2: from Europe? Yeah? Ship them in? Uh oh, he continues.

2145
01:52:39,560 --> 01:52:44,679
Speaker 1: The movie has Dwarves, music, technicolor, freak characters, and Judy Garland.

2146
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:48,440
Speaker 2: Sounds like a good Friday night to me, say the Aristocrats.

2147
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:53,960
Speaker 1: It can't be expected to have a sense of humor

2148
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:56,639
Speaker 1: as well, and as for the light touch of fantasy,

2149
01:52:57,320 --> 01:53:00,919
Speaker 1: it weighs like a pound of fruitcakesing wet.

2150
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:06,200
Speaker 2: I prazy? Sure? Sure can he say that?

2151
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:06,479
Speaker 1: Though?

2152
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:08,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess he could at the time.

2153
01:53:08,479 --> 01:53:11,040
Speaker 1: I don't think the term fruitcack had that connotation at

2154
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:11,400
Speaker 1: the time.

2155
01:53:11,920 --> 01:53:14,759
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, it's interesting.

2156
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:18,080
Speaker 1: The movie is better than average, but not perfect. Contemporary

2157
01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:23,240
Speaker 1: reputation is probably best illustrated in Film Daily's poll of

2158
01:53:23,400 --> 01:53:26,120
Speaker 1: five hundred and forty two critics naming the best film

2159
01:53:26,160 --> 01:53:31,000
Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty nine. OZ weighed in at number seven. Granted,

2160
01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:33,920
Speaker 1: in later years, film historians would deem nineteen thirty nine

2161
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:36,120
Speaker 1: to be one of the greatest years in cinema history,

2162
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:38,519
Speaker 1: with the release of classics like Gone with the Wind,

2163
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:42,000
Speaker 1: Withering Heights, Babes and Arms, Goodbye Mister Chips of Mice

2164
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:44,920
Speaker 1: and Men, Mister Smith Goes to Washington and Stagecoach, but

2165
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:47,080
Speaker 1: still seven?

2166
01:53:47,880 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 2: What were the other ones? What was ahead of it?

2167
01:53:49,240 --> 01:53:50,519
Speaker 2: A bunch of movies about ships?

2168
01:53:50,720 --> 01:53:53,080
Speaker 1: I so probably yeah. I think I tried looking this

2169
01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:54,040
Speaker 1: up and I couldn't find it.

2170
01:53:55,040 --> 01:53:58,400
Speaker 2: They do love movies on movies about ships, man, But

2171
01:53:58,560 --> 01:53:58,680
Speaker 2: was it?

2172
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:00,200
Speaker 1: Of OZ took a back seat to Gone with the

2173
01:54:00,240 --> 01:54:03,519
Speaker 1: Wind at the Oscars, losing its nominations for Best Picture,

2174
01:54:03,600 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 1: Best Cinematography.

2175
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:06,400
Speaker 2: Art Direction, and Special Effects.

2176
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:09,639
Speaker 1: It did, however, win two Academy Awards for his music,

2177
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:12,479
Speaker 1: Best Original Score and Best Original Song.

2178
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 2: For Over the Rainbow. Of Course.

2179
01:54:15,160 --> 01:54:18,160
Speaker 1: Judy Garland was awarded a miniature Trophy for her performance

2180
01:54:18,240 --> 01:54:22,800
Speaker 1: in the now defunct Juvenile Award category, which she predictably

2181
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:24,400
Speaker 1: dubbed the Munchkin Award.

2182
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:26,040
Speaker 2: Oh honey.

2183
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:31,679
Speaker 1: It was presented to her by Mickey Rooney. You can't

2184
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:33,040
Speaker 1: let her have her moment.

2185
01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ Rooney. I really don't like him. I never

2186
01:54:38,840 --> 01:54:41,160
Speaker 2: never much cared for it, never I've never cared for Mickey,

2187
01:54:41,560 --> 01:54:42,520
Speaker 2: and I've always said.

2188
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:45,120
Speaker 1: That is that awful racist caricature he does the breakfast

2189
01:54:45,120 --> 01:54:45,720
Speaker 1: at Tiffany's.

2190
01:54:46,280 --> 01:54:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's super bad. Anyone with eight wives, I assume

2191
01:54:50,360 --> 01:54:53,600
Speaker 2: just must be awful. Yes. Yes.

2192
01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:57,000
Speaker 1: Judy, on the other hand, by all accounts pretty deep,

2193
01:54:57,160 --> 01:55:01,200
Speaker 1: pretty deep, pretty funny, funny. Lady Lucille Ball would say

2194
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:03,040
Speaker 1: that there were a lot of comedi ends out there,

2195
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:06,600
Speaker 1: but Judy Galland privately, one on one was legitimately hilarious.

2196
01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:09,040
Speaker 2: And that's high praise coming from Lucy.

2197
01:55:10,520 --> 01:55:12,760
Speaker 1: In addition to the many talk show appearances, there are

2198
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:15,520
Speaker 1: tapes circulating that she made in the early sixties when

2199
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:18,480
Speaker 1: she was attempting to put together a memoir to basically

2200
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:21,200
Speaker 1: earn some money at that point. We touched on this

2201
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:24,560
Speaker 1: earlier in the episode known as Judy Speaks, and available

2202
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:28,640
Speaker 1: on YouTube. The tapes are a fascinating, sometimes sad, sometimes

2203
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:33,879
Speaker 1: hilarious document in which a very pilled and or liquored

2204
01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:37,080
Speaker 1: up Garland names names as she rants about all the

2205
01:55:37,120 --> 01:55:39,560
Speaker 1: people who screwed her over over the years and made

2206
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:41,920
Speaker 1: money off of her while she was living out of

2207
01:55:41,960 --> 01:55:46,960
Speaker 1: a plastic bag at fans houses. Sadly, the memoir never

2208
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:52,240
Speaker 1: came together before her death. However, while recognizing the litany

2209
01:55:52,280 --> 01:55:54,600
Speaker 1: of horrible stuff she dealt with, it's important to take

2210
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:57,040
Speaker 1: a lot of what she says, especially later in life,

2211
01:55:57,480 --> 01:56:01,840
Speaker 1: especially concerning the Munchkins, with a grain of salt. Even

2212
01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:04,640
Speaker 1: her own shouldered admitted this. In a nineteen eighty nine

2213
01:56:04,680 --> 01:56:07,400
Speaker 1: special celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of The Wizard of Oz,

2214
01:56:07,640 --> 01:56:10,600
Speaker 1: Liza Minelli touches on this while surrounded by her half

2215
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:14,680
Speaker 1: siblings Larna and Joey loved our mother had an amazing

2216
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:17,120
Speaker 1: sense of humor, and everyone who really knew her knew

2217
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:19,960
Speaker 1: what a funny, bright witty rack on tour she was.

2218
01:56:20,440 --> 01:56:22,760
Speaker 1: Her vocabulary was immense, and she had a way of

2219
01:56:22,800 --> 01:56:25,520
Speaker 1: telling a story where she could change anything so that

2220
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:28,920
Speaker 1: anything she talked about would become an epic joke. And

2221
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:31,120
Speaker 1: we used to love to listen to her. She did

2222
01:56:31,160 --> 01:56:33,520
Speaker 1: that several times telling stories about the Wizard of Oz,

2223
01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:36,760
Speaker 1: and they've since passed. In the myth people believe a

2224
01:56:36,800 --> 01:56:38,920
Speaker 1: lot of the things that she's told, which in fact

2225
01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:42,600
Speaker 1: we know are not true. In a similar note, I

2226
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:45,520
Speaker 1: would like to share a story that circulated in the

2227
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:50,080
Speaker 1: press in nineteen thirty nine. It sounds like Studio planted

2228
01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:53,160
Speaker 1: pr hucksterism to me, but I like it so much

2229
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:56,160
Speaker 1: that I want to print the legend. In December nineteen

2230
01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:57,960
Speaker 1: thirty nine, a few months after the release of The

2231
01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:01,200
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz, a little girl named Natalie Norris was

2232
01:57:01,320 --> 01:57:04,000
Speaker 1: recovering from what was reported in the press as quote

2233
01:57:04,040 --> 01:57:06,960
Speaker 1: a major operation when she took a turn for the

2234
01:57:07,040 --> 01:57:11,120
Speaker 1: worse and was placed in critical condition, suffering quote a

2235
01:57:11,320 --> 01:57:14,840
Speaker 1: nightmare of delirium. She began rambling about the Wizard of Oz,

2236
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:18,080
Speaker 1: claiming in her fevered state that she was, in fact Dorothy.

2237
01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:21,400
Speaker 1: Her mother and doctor wrote to Judy informing her of

2238
01:57:21,480 --> 01:57:23,680
Speaker 1: this sad tale and thinking that maybe a word from

2239
01:57:23,760 --> 01:57:26,840
Speaker 1: the Star would somehow be helpful given the little girl's

2240
01:57:27,520 --> 01:57:32,480
Speaker 1: tenuous state. Judy first sent photos signed love and Kisses Dorothy,

2241
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:34,840
Speaker 1: promising that she would take the little girl to Oz,

2242
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 1: where they'd have quote lots and lots of fun. And

2243
01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:41,879
Speaker 1: then Judy visited the little girl at the Anaheim Hospital

2244
01:57:41,960 --> 01:57:45,840
Speaker 1: in person and stayed for hours and talked with her.

2245
01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:48,320
Speaker 1: Some reports say that she actually showed up in her

2246
01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:51,120
Speaker 1: Dorothy outfit, but I think that's an embellishment, which is

2247
01:57:51,480 --> 01:57:53,560
Speaker 1: probably for the best, because I would imagine.

2248
01:57:53,240 --> 01:57:56,120
Speaker 2: That would have blown the little girl's mind in a

2249
01:57:56,200 --> 01:57:58,240
Speaker 2: bad way. I just like the idea of her, like

2250
01:57:58,360 --> 01:58:00,520
Speaker 2: leaning in close and everyone thinks sick, like talking to

2251
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:02,440
Speaker 2: her all sweetly, and then she's just this like gin

2252
01:58:02,600 --> 01:58:06,960
Speaker 2: perfumed breath and she's like, listen to me, I am Dorothy,

2253
01:58:07,280 --> 01:58:10,240
Speaker 2: and don't you forget it, just like squeezing harder and

2254
01:58:10,320 --> 01:58:11,360
Speaker 2: harder on her shoulder.

2255
01:58:11,640 --> 01:58:14,040
Speaker 3: Let's get we be made straight. Wu wei'd be mayor

2256
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 3: groped me for this, and you will not take it away.

2257
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:24,360
Speaker 3: I've killed before and I will.

2258
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:30,560
Speaker 2: Do it again. Oh my god, she was sixteen. Yeah,

2259
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:34,120
Speaker 2: we laughed because it's horrible. Yeah, start this next story.

2260
01:58:35,720 --> 01:58:38,920
Speaker 2: Judy died of an accidental drug overdose. No, yeah. Anyone

2261
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 2: familiar with the broad strokes of Judy Garland's life knows

2262
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:45,480
Speaker 2: that it had a very sad end and middle and beginning,

2263
01:58:46,360 --> 01:58:49,600
Speaker 2: really all of it. She died of an accidental drug overdose,

2264
01:58:49,680 --> 01:58:52,680
Speaker 2: apparently of the same sleeping pills that her mother had

2265
01:58:52,720 --> 01:58:56,200
Speaker 2: given her as a child, on June twenty second, nineteen

2266
01:58:56,280 --> 01:59:00,240
Speaker 2: sixty nine, at an apartment in London. She's pass be

2267
01:59:00,320 --> 01:59:02,680
Speaker 2: the second most famous person in the world to die

2268
01:59:02,720 --> 01:59:05,920
Speaker 2: in the toilet, Elvis being the first and Lenny Bruce

2269
01:59:06,200 --> 01:59:07,120
Speaker 2: getting the bronze.

2270
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:10,120
Speaker 1: She wasn't using the toilet though, she was just sitting

2271
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:13,480
Speaker 1: on it while she was going through her pharmacopeia.

2272
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:18,360
Speaker 2: Her funeral was held a few days later in New

2273
01:59:18,440 --> 01:59:21,400
Speaker 2: York City on June twenty seventh, hours before the Stonewall

2274
01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:24,280
Speaker 2: wriots began in Greenwich Village just after midnight on June

2275
01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 2: twenty eighth. The link between those two events has likely

2276
01:59:27,320 --> 01:59:31,480
Speaker 2: been overseated and exaggerated over the years. No participants recall

2277
01:59:31,560 --> 01:59:34,120
Speaker 2: her death as being a direct factor, although one Stonewall

2278
01:59:34,160 --> 01:59:36,400
Speaker 2: patron said that some people had come from the funeral

2279
01:59:36,480 --> 01:59:39,280
Speaker 2: that night to drown their sorrows. Since it was illegal

2280
01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:41,200
Speaker 2: for gay bars to have a liquor license at that time,

2281
01:59:41,400 --> 01:59:44,000
Speaker 2: Stonewall was a private bottle club that required members to

2282
01:59:44,120 --> 01:59:48,160
Speaker 2: sign in. Many used the pseudonym Judy Garland. No press

2283
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:50,080
Speaker 2: reports at the time cite her death as any sort

2284
01:59:50,080 --> 01:59:53,560
Speaker 2: of inciting incident. Gay rights pioneer Bob Kohler is quoted

2285
01:59:53,560 --> 01:59:56,200
Speaker 2: as saying, when people talk about Judy Garland's death having

2286
01:59:56,240 --> 01:59:58,920
Speaker 2: anything do much with a riot, that makes me crazy.

2287
01:59:59,200 --> 02:00:01,440
Speaker 2: The street kids face death every day, they had nothing

2288
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:03,520
Speaker 2: to lose, and they couldn't have cared less about Judy.

2289
02:00:03,920 --> 02:00:06,760
Speaker 2: We're talking about kids who were fourteen fifteen, sixteen. Judy

2290
02:00:06,840 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 2: Garland was the middle aged darling of the middle class gays.

2291
02:00:09,560 --> 02:00:11,920
Speaker 2: I get upset about this because it trivializes the whole thing.

2292
02:00:12,760 --> 02:00:14,640
Speaker 2: So while it would be inaccurate to say that Judy's

2293
02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:17,520
Speaker 2: death directly led to the Stonewall Riots, she was certainly

2294
02:00:17,560 --> 02:00:20,400
Speaker 2: an important figure in the queer community at that time.

2295
02:00:21,160 --> 02:00:24,600
Speaker 2: The Advocate has referred to her as the Elvis of homosexuals,

2296
02:00:25,120 --> 02:00:26,600
Speaker 2: and this was largely due to her role in the

2297
02:00:26,600 --> 02:00:29,520
Speaker 2: Wizard of Oz. Famously, for years, asking if someone was

2298
02:00:29,560 --> 02:00:31,680
Speaker 2: a friend of Dorothy was a barely coded way of

2299
02:00:31,720 --> 02:00:35,120
Speaker 2: asking if they were a gay person. Precise reasons why

2300
02:00:35,240 --> 02:00:38,000
Speaker 2: Judy and the film were embraced by the LGBTQ community

2301
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:42,480
Speaker 2: are complex and varied. Judy herself supported homosexual people in

2302
02:00:42,600 --> 02:00:45,880
Speaker 2: a myriad of ways throughout her lifetime, including by marrying them.

2303
02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:49,360
Speaker 2: Two of her husbands were rumored to be closeted, her

2304
02:00:49,920 --> 02:00:52,320
Speaker 2: father was rumored to be closeted, and she introduced her

2305
02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:56,560
Speaker 2: daughter Liza to her first husband, Peter Allen, who was

2306
02:00:56,680 --> 02:01:01,000
Speaker 2: gay Garland supported LGBTQ causes finance actually and personally at

2307
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:04,040
Speaker 2: a time, but that was not socially acceptable. She frequented

2308
02:01:04,120 --> 02:01:07,120
Speaker 2: gay bars with openly gay friends, including director George Koker,

2309
02:01:07,440 --> 02:01:10,200
Speaker 2: which royally pissed off the brass at MGM, and the

2310
02:01:10,240 --> 02:01:13,600
Speaker 2: gay community supported her right back. Her daughter Lorna Louff

2311
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:15,960
Speaker 2: wrote in her memoir that in the mid sixties, Judy

2312
02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 2: was a homeless brooke who showed up at the homes

2313
02:01:18,560 --> 02:01:20,840
Speaker 2: of her mostly gay fans with a plastic bag filled

2314
02:01:20,880 --> 02:01:24,240
Speaker 2: with her few possessions, asking to sleep on their couches.

2315
02:01:25,120 --> 02:01:29,000
Speaker 2: Judy Garland, Okay, I just that's just so shocking to me.

2316
02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:34,960
Speaker 2: Movie magic. Sure, during this period, when she was struggling

2317
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:37,440
Speaker 2: to find work, she'd reliably get booked at gay bars.

2318
02:01:37,480 --> 02:01:40,560
Speaker 2: In New York press reports in the sixties frequently commentated

2319
02:01:40,680 --> 02:01:44,000
Speaker 2: on her passionate legion of gay fans. Time magazine had

2320
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:47,520
Speaker 2: a memorable euphemism, calling them the boys in tight trousers,

2321
02:01:47,560 --> 02:01:50,440
Speaker 2: which was afraid that they employed on multiple occasions over

2322
02:01:50,520 --> 02:01:54,080
Speaker 2: the years. This same nineteen sixty seven time piece featured

2323
02:01:54,120 --> 02:01:56,840
Speaker 2: interviews with psychologists who were asked why homosexual men were

2324
02:01:56,880 --> 02:02:03,560
Speaker 2: so drawn to Judy and their insights are surprising in

2325
02:02:03,640 --> 02:02:06,920
Speaker 2: a number of ways. Actually, they theorize that the attraction

2326
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:09,440
Speaker 2: to Garland might be made considerably stronger by the fact

2327
02:02:09,440 --> 02:02:12,959
Speaker 2: that she has survived by so many problems homosexuals identify

2328
02:02:13,080 --> 02:02:18,520
Speaker 2: with that kind of hysteria. Yeah, and that Judy was

2329
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:21,360
Speaker 2: beaten up by life and battled and ultimately had to

2330
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:24,560
Speaker 2: become more masculine. She has the power that homosexuals would

2331
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:26,520
Speaker 2: like to have, and they attempt to attain it by

2332
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:31,640
Speaker 2: idolizing her. It is interesting because there is a one

2333
02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:34,840
Speaker 2: of the horror podcasts I listened to. It is called

2334
02:02:34,880 --> 02:02:37,400
Speaker 2: brain Rot and it's about like eighties trash movies, but

2335
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:40,400
Speaker 2: it's hosted by a gay man, and he talks about

2336
02:02:40,760 --> 02:02:45,240
Speaker 2: why the concept of the final girl like resonates in

2337
02:02:45,440 --> 02:02:47,360
Speaker 2: so much of the gay community as far as far

2338
02:02:47,440 --> 02:02:49,520
Speaker 2: as horror film goes, and he basically gave the exact

2339
02:02:49,560 --> 02:02:52,960
Speaker 2: same opinion. You know. He was, like, the final girls

2340
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:56,360
Speaker 2: in these movies are menaced, tormented and have to rise

2341
02:02:56,480 --> 02:03:03,280
Speaker 2: up against mostly straight white men. Interesting conclusions drawn decades apart.

2342
02:03:03,560 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 2: That is really interesting.

2343
02:03:04,880 --> 02:03:09,440
Speaker 1: There was a critic, Richard Dyer, who said something similar.

2344
02:03:09,760 --> 02:03:13,440
Speaker 1: Garland's work and life tells the story of survival and

2345
02:03:13,560 --> 02:03:16,200
Speaker 1: of someone trying to assert some form of control in

2346
02:03:16,280 --> 02:03:18,920
Speaker 1: a world that was set up to destroy her, which.

2347
02:03:18,760 --> 02:03:23,480
Speaker 2: Sounds similar to what you're just detailing. Yeah. Future screenwriting

2348
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:26,640
Speaker 2: icon William Goldman wrote a problematic profile on Judy and

2349
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:29,240
Speaker 2: Esquire that makes liberal use of the hard a f

2350
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:31,760
Speaker 2: before expanding on the notion that Garland was one of

2351
02:03:31,800 --> 02:03:34,120
Speaker 2: the first stars to have their dirty laundry air in

2352
02:03:34,240 --> 02:03:38,200
Speaker 2: such a public fashion. Homosexuals tend to identify with suffering.

2353
02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:41,440
Speaker 2: They are a persecuted group and they understand suffering, and

2354
02:03:41,560 --> 02:03:44,240
Speaker 2: so does Garland. She's been through the fire and lived,

2355
02:03:44,520 --> 02:03:46,720
Speaker 2: all the drinking and divorcing, all the pills and all

2356
02:03:46,760 --> 02:03:50,760
Speaker 2: the men, all the poundage come and gone, brothers and sisters.

2357
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:56,840
Speaker 2: She knows phrasing William. Judy predictably didn't give a damn

2358
02:03:56,840 --> 02:03:59,320
Speaker 2: about any of these theories. When a reporter asked how

2359
02:03:59,360 --> 02:04:01,800
Speaker 2: she felt about it having a large gay following, Garland replied,

2360
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:04,480
Speaker 2: I couldn't care less. I sing to people. I sing

2361
02:04:04,600 --> 02:04:08,440
Speaker 2: to people. I sing to people. I couldn't care less

2362
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:16,160
Speaker 2: I sing to people. I sing, I sing. Ultimately, depending

2363
02:04:16,200 --> 02:04:17,360
Speaker 2: on what part of the day that you caught her,

2364
02:04:17,400 --> 02:04:18,600
Speaker 2: that might have been a surprise to her.

2365
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:23,920
Speaker 1: Ah, I sing to people, what do you think about

2366
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:28,400
Speaker 1: Judy Garland. It's as a performer or as a figure? No,

2367
02:04:28,720 --> 02:04:30,720
Speaker 1: no answer, however you're going to no.

2368
02:04:30,880 --> 02:04:34,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's a nightmare, dude. It's oh yeah,

2369
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:37,560
Speaker 2: it's one of the worst, you know, it's And it's

2370
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:39,440
Speaker 2: so sad that one of the things I find most

2371
02:04:39,480 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 2: hypocritical about it is that, like in you know, there's

2372
02:04:43,200 --> 02:04:46,600
Speaker 2: been this kind of reappraisal of how horribly the press

2373
02:04:46,720 --> 02:04:51,720
Speaker 2: treated Brittany right in the early amy and yes, and

2374
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:56,040
Speaker 2: any generally vulnerable young woman who is seen to have

2375
02:04:56,120 --> 02:04:58,680
Speaker 2: any kind of person perceived as having a personal flaw

2376
02:04:59,600 --> 02:05:05,080
Speaker 2: related to men or drugs or drink anyway. And it's

2377
02:05:05,160 --> 02:05:08,560
Speaker 2: so funny to me that by that time the entertainment

2378
02:05:08,680 --> 02:05:12,400
Speaker 2: industry would have been suffused with the very generation of

2379
02:05:12,480 --> 02:05:16,800
Speaker 2: gay men who grew up worshiping Judy Garland and afforded

2380
02:05:17,360 --> 02:05:23,800
Speaker 2: absolutely none of the same sympathy to her modern spiritual daughters.

2381
02:05:24,120 --> 02:05:28,440
Speaker 2: You know, it's a nightmare business, dude. It's awful. It's

2382
02:05:28,480 --> 02:05:32,240
Speaker 2: a terrible, terrible place. And she was one of the

2383
02:05:32,320 --> 02:05:35,800
Speaker 2: first visible people to get really showed up by it.

2384
02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:38,680
Speaker 2: But apparently, you know, we have a short memory because

2385
02:05:38,720 --> 02:05:41,560
Speaker 2: we do this to women on every five years in

2386
02:05:41,680 --> 02:05:42,320
Speaker 2: pop culture.

2387
02:05:42,480 --> 02:05:45,400
Speaker 1: You know, I feel as though, and maybe it's because

2388
02:05:45,400 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 1: it's the first time in like fifteen years that I'm

2389
02:05:47,680 --> 02:05:52,080
Speaker 1: kind of out of the closet the game, out of

2390
02:05:52,120 --> 02:05:54,960
Speaker 1: the pop culture journalism game, really, but I feel like

2391
02:05:55,080 --> 02:05:58,480
Speaker 1: we've gotten better at that because I've started in two

2392
02:05:58,520 --> 02:06:01,840
Speaker 1: thousand and nine in the height of the Amy White House,

2393
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:06,160
Speaker 1: Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton stuff I.

2394
02:06:06,360 --> 02:06:09,360
Speaker 2: Like to think, so I like to think, so, you know,

2395
02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:13,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, it sort of depends how you

2396
02:06:13,480 --> 02:06:17,520
Speaker 2: feel about paparazzi because like that stuff, that stuff is

2397
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:20,919
Speaker 2: as bad as it's ever been, you know. But and privacy,

2398
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:23,280
Speaker 2: invasion of privacy is as bad as it's ever been

2399
02:06:23,360 --> 02:06:27,080
Speaker 2: because fan culture has morphed into from I like what

2400
02:06:27,200 --> 02:06:29,880
Speaker 2: you do with your voice too, Like I own you

2401
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:31,560
Speaker 2: and your.

2402
02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:34,000
Speaker 1: And I've found you because of this photo you post

2403
02:06:34,080 --> 02:06:36,280
Speaker 1: on social media. I've not tracked you down.

2404
02:06:37,280 --> 02:06:41,800
Speaker 2: Yes you owe me this, Yeah, so yeah, I would.

2405
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:43,400
Speaker 2: It might be a little bit of a one two

2406
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:45,960
Speaker 2: step forward, one step back situation with that, but you know,

2407
02:06:46,240 --> 02:06:49,480
Speaker 2: one of those steps is committed by quote unquote fans,

2408
02:06:49,480 --> 02:06:51,840
Speaker 2: and one of them is committed by the industry, you know,

2409
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:55,040
Speaker 2: cannibalizing itself. And so I don't know which one's worse.

2410
02:06:56,560 --> 02:07:02,400
Speaker 2: Movie magic, but zooland voice. Why the Wizard of Oz?

2411
02:07:03,080 --> 02:07:06,120
Speaker 1: Why is the Wizard of Oz such a touchstone for

2412
02:07:06,240 --> 02:07:06,879
Speaker 1: gay culture?

2413
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:12,480
Speaker 2: Well, theories have abound, as they're wont to do. What

2414
02:07:12,640 --> 02:07:15,920
Speaker 2: else abounds of? Even theories? It's like what else gets rumors?

2415
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:18,480
Speaker 2: Rumors abound, rumors abound. It's like what else gets monged

2416
02:07:18,640 --> 02:07:20,840
Speaker 2: other than fish rumors in war?

2417
02:07:21,160 --> 02:07:23,520
Speaker 1: They are the only conceptual things I can't think of,

2418
02:07:23,600 --> 02:07:27,200
Speaker 1: like literal things that abound, Well, cheese gets mongered, Oh,

2419
02:07:27,320 --> 02:07:33,160
Speaker 1: rumor mongering, I see, okay, fish. But things that are abound,

2420
02:07:33,200 --> 02:07:37,440
Speaker 1: I guess Germs are germs abound, germs abound, troubles abound.

2421
02:07:38,360 --> 02:07:43,760
Speaker 2: Ill will abounds. If you were a loved one abound,

2422
02:07:43,960 --> 02:07:47,520
Speaker 2: if you were a loved one abound, Please treeted us

2423
02:07:47,640 --> 02:07:52,440
Speaker 2: using mashtag abound. It's been said that Dorothy's journey from

2424
02:07:52,560 --> 02:07:54,880
Speaker 2: Kansas to Oz was an allegory from any gay men

2425
02:07:54,960 --> 02:07:57,280
Speaker 2: who yearned to escape the grayness of their small minded

2426
02:07:57,360 --> 02:08:00,720
Speaker 2: hometowns and relocate to a big, colorful city. Where they

2427
02:08:00,760 --> 02:08:03,520
Speaker 2: could have adventures with a group of lovable outcasts who

2428
02:08:03,560 --> 02:08:06,200
Speaker 2: take them into their midst and support them as part

2429
02:08:06,240 --> 02:08:11,600
Speaker 2: of their chosen family. But don't take our word for it. Seriously, don't.

2430
02:08:12,800 --> 02:08:15,080
Speaker 2: As Brian Bromberger wrote in the Bay Area Reporter for

2431
02:08:15,160 --> 02:08:18,560
Speaker 2: his twenty nineteen piece why Judy Garland Still Matters, many

2432
02:08:18,640 --> 02:08:21,240
Speaker 2: now see Garland's iconic portrayal of Dorothy Gale in the

2433
02:08:21,320 --> 02:08:24,360
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine classic Oz as a queer journey, an

2434
02:08:24,480 --> 02:08:27,680
Speaker 2: escape from the puritanical, morally rigid, black and white small

2435
02:08:27,720 --> 02:08:31,720
Speaker 2: town life to technicolor city existence with fabulous friends. In

2436
02:08:31,760 --> 02:08:34,280
Speaker 2: the two thousand documentary Memories of Oz, no less an

2437
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 2: authority than John Waters spoke about seeing the Wizard of

2438
02:08:37,120 --> 02:08:39,960
Speaker 2: Oz as a little boy. I was the only child

2439
02:08:40,040 --> 02:08:42,200
Speaker 2: in the audience that always wondered why Dorothy ever wanted

2440
02:08:42,240 --> 02:08:44,520
Speaker 2: to go back to Kansas. Why would she want to

2441
02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:46,960
Speaker 2: go back to Kansas in this dreary black and white

2442
02:08:47,040 --> 02:08:49,240
Speaker 2: farm with an aunt who dressed badly and seemed mean

2443
02:08:49,360 --> 02:08:52,840
Speaker 2: to me, when she could live with magic shoes, winged

2444
02:08:52,880 --> 02:09:02,000
Speaker 2: monkeys and gay lions. I never understood it. John. So,

2445
02:09:02,160 --> 02:09:05,400
Speaker 2: according to lore, the cowardly lion is meant to be

2446
02:09:05,480 --> 02:09:08,840
Speaker 2: a gay man, since he identifies himself in song as

2447
02:09:08,880 --> 02:09:13,320
Speaker 2: a sissy and exhibits certain effeminate mannerisms. In the film,

2448
02:09:13,400 --> 02:09:16,880
Speaker 2: Dorothy is portrayed of as accepting anyone who is different,

2449
02:09:16,920 --> 02:09:20,200
Speaker 2: including the cowardly Lion who's allegedly a coded gay man.

2450
02:09:21,520 --> 02:09:23,520
Speaker 2: What is the scarecrow? Then? What does the tin man

2451
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:26,880
Speaker 2: represent that? I don't know. I guess I didn't go

2452
02:09:27,120 --> 02:09:30,000
Speaker 2: super super super super deep on this, but okay, yeah,

2453
02:09:30,040 --> 02:09:32,680
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not sure. The popularity of the Wizard

2454
02:09:32,760 --> 02:09:35,840
Speaker 2: of Oz within the LGBT community supposedly helped inspire the

2455
02:09:35,880 --> 02:09:39,320
Speaker 2: adoption of the Rainbow flag in honor of Over the Rainbow.

2456
02:09:39,880 --> 02:09:42,040
Speaker 2: The song has been described by writer Stephen Frank in

2457
02:09:42,120 --> 02:09:44,080
Speaker 2: his two thousand and seven piece What Does It Take

2458
02:09:44,160 --> 02:09:46,760
Speaker 2: to Be a Gay icon Today as the sound of

2459
02:09:46,840 --> 02:09:50,000
Speaker 2: the closet speaking to gay men whose image quote they

2460
02:09:50,040 --> 02:09:53,120
Speaker 2: presented in their own public lives was often at odds

2461
02:09:53,200 --> 02:09:56,200
Speaker 2: with a truer sense of self that mainstream society would

2462
02:09:56,240 --> 02:09:56,879
Speaker 2: not condone.

2463
02:09:58,000 --> 02:09:59,880
Speaker 1: So in light of all this, the whole friend of

2464
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:02,840
Speaker 1: Dorothy euphemism begins to make a whole lot more sense.

2465
02:10:02,920 --> 02:10:05,960
Speaker 1: Dorothy was accepting of everyone, no matter how different they were,

2466
02:10:06,400 --> 02:10:08,840
Speaker 1: you were a friend of Dorothy, ergo you are different.

2467
02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:10,640
Speaker 2: When did the film start getting broadcasts?

2468
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:15,000
Speaker 1: Nineteen fifty We talk about it later, I want to say,

2469
02:10:15,080 --> 02:10:15,960
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty six.

2470
02:10:16,320 --> 02:10:20,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, So that scans chronologically that like gay

2471
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:25,080
Speaker 2: men of John Waters' environcea would have been seeing this

2472
02:10:25,680 --> 02:10:28,520
Speaker 2: via their parents and seeing it on TV via the broadcast.

2473
02:10:28,640 --> 02:10:30,440
Speaker 2: But not. I mean, he said he saw in the theater,

2474
02:10:30,560 --> 02:10:31,840
Speaker 2: So what am I talking about?

2475
02:10:31,920 --> 02:10:34,360
Speaker 1: But I think I got a re release in nineteen

2476
02:10:34,440 --> 02:10:36,280
Speaker 1: forty nine, so that probably would have run around when

2477
02:10:36,280 --> 02:10:36,600
Speaker 1: he saw it.

2478
02:10:36,680 --> 02:10:37,000
Speaker 2: I think.

2479
02:10:37,920 --> 02:10:41,160
Speaker 1: Okay, But this phrase a friend Dorothy the origins of

2480
02:10:41,200 --> 02:10:42,240
Speaker 1: the source of speculation.

2481
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:43,640
Speaker 2: Some believe that the.

2482
02:10:43,720 --> 02:10:46,960
Speaker 1: Term derived way back in nineteen oh nine, which I

2483
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:48,080
Speaker 1: kind of find hard to believe.

2484
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:48,760
Speaker 2: After L.

2485
02:10:48,840 --> 02:10:51,920
Speaker 1: Frank Baum published another OZ sequel, The Road to Oz.

2486
02:10:52,480 --> 02:10:57,600
Speaker 1: The book introduces readers to Polychrome, who, upon meeting Dorothy's

2487
02:10:57,640 --> 02:11:02,080
Speaker 1: traveling companions, exclaims, you have some queer friends, Dorothy, to

2488
02:11:02,120 --> 02:11:05,800
Speaker 1: which Dorothy replies, the queerness doesn't matter so long as

2489
02:11:05,840 --> 02:11:06,440
Speaker 1: they're friends.

2490
02:11:06,720 --> 02:11:07,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

2491
02:11:08,720 --> 02:11:12,040
Speaker 1: I always believe that it's much more straightforward. Excuse the

2492
02:11:12,080 --> 02:11:14,640
Speaker 1: pun reference to the Wizard of Oz movie from nineteen

2493
02:11:14,720 --> 02:11:18,360
Speaker 1: thirty nine. On the flip side, there's a theory that

2494
02:11:18,640 --> 02:11:21,520
Speaker 1: the whole friend of Dorothy euphemism is it connected to

2495
02:11:21,560 --> 02:11:24,080
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz at all. But the Dorothy in

2496
02:11:24,200 --> 02:11:28,280
Speaker 1: question actually refers to Dorothy Parker, the humorous critic and

2497
02:11:28,600 --> 02:11:32,680
Speaker 1: per her Wikipedia defender of human and civil rights, whose

2498
02:11:32,760 --> 02:11:35,280
Speaker 1: social circle in the twenties and thirties included gay men.

2499
02:11:35,760 --> 02:11:38,560
Speaker 1: And she would throw lavish parties, and this would be

2500
02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:40,840
Speaker 1: the phrase that guests, most of whom were gay men,

2501
02:11:40,880 --> 02:11:43,280
Speaker 1: would use to gain entry. We are friends of Dorothy

2502
02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:44,680
Speaker 1: so and.

2503
02:11:44,800 --> 02:11:49,640
Speaker 2: She was so caddy? Was she Dorothy Parker? Yes, she's

2504
02:11:49,720 --> 02:11:52,839
Speaker 2: like a famous one of those like barbed tongue ladies.

2505
02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:56,240
Speaker 1: Also, her uncle drowned on the Titanic. Well, there's that.

2506
02:11:56,560 --> 02:11:57,280
Speaker 1: I got that one in.

2507
02:11:57,480 --> 02:11:59,600
Speaker 2: She's the one who wrote they might as Well Live poem.

2508
02:11:59,600 --> 02:12:04,280
Speaker 2: I believe it is attributed to I don't know if

2509
02:12:04,360 --> 02:12:07,240
Speaker 2: I know that. I hate almost all rich people, but

2510
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:09,640
Speaker 2: I think i'd be darling at it. It's not the

2511
02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:14,280
Speaker 2: tragedies that kill us, it's the messes. I can't stand messes. Oh,

2512
02:12:14,440 --> 02:12:17,879
Speaker 2: this is another classic one. Why she doesn't answer emails?

2513
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:24,320
Speaker 2: Too busy and vice versa. Dorothy Parker supposedly emails now

2514
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:28,520
Speaker 2: any letters, Oh I see wit has truth in it. Wise,

2515
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:33,680
Speaker 2: cracking is simply calisthenics with words. Wow, that's great. I

2516
02:12:33,920 --> 02:12:35,920
Speaker 2: like that. To me. The most beautiful word in the

2517
02:12:35,960 --> 02:12:39,000
Speaker 2: English language is sell her door, isn't it wonderful? The

2518
02:12:39,080 --> 02:12:44,960
Speaker 2: ones I like, though, are check and enclosed. It's good. Yeah,

2519
02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:47,680
Speaker 2: she has a funny broad I think she's the one

2520
02:12:47,680 --> 02:12:50,640
Speaker 2: who also sent the She would send telegrams to people

2521
02:12:50,720 --> 02:12:52,720
Speaker 2: after a morning or a night of heavy drinking that

2522
02:12:52,920 --> 02:12:58,360
Speaker 2: just simply read can you ever forgive me? Ah? Wow?

2523
02:12:58,440 --> 02:13:02,480
Speaker 1: Her original name is Rothshaw. Well, I wonder probably not

2524
02:13:03,560 --> 02:13:04,720
Speaker 1: not those rothchilds.

2525
02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:07,640
Speaker 2: No, apparently, what fresh hell can this be? Is a

2526
02:13:07,720 --> 02:13:11,960
Speaker 2: Dorothy Parker original? What? Oh wow? That's awesome.

2527
02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:16,560
Speaker 1: But enough about the cultural legacy of marginalized groups. Let's

2528
02:13:16,640 --> 02:13:21,160
Speaker 1: talk about the cold, hard cash generated by Dorothy and company. Writing,

2529
02:13:21,200 --> 02:13:24,480
Speaker 1: a Variety critic John C. Flynn predicted that the Wizard

2530
02:13:24,520 --> 02:13:27,320
Speaker 1: of Oz was quote likely to perform some record breaking

2531
02:13:27,440 --> 02:13:31,680
Speaker 1: feats of box office magic. However, this was apparently not

2532
02:13:31,840 --> 02:13:35,879
Speaker 1: the case, according to MGM records and corroborated by reputable

2533
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:38,840
Speaker 1: sites like Time and NBC Dot com The Wizard of

2534
02:13:38,920 --> 02:13:42,560
Speaker 1: Oz earned three million and seventeen thousand dollars in the

2535
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:46,040
Speaker 1: US and abroad during its initial release, but factoring in

2536
02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:50,040
Speaker 1: the high production cost, marketing, distribution, and other overheads, Oz

2537
02:13:50,120 --> 02:13:52,839
Speaker 1: resulted in a million dollar loss for MGM.

2538
02:13:53,680 --> 02:13:54,440
Speaker 2: I've seen other.

2539
02:13:54,360 --> 02:13:57,000
Speaker 1: Reports that the film basically broke even, but those sites

2540
02:13:57,040 --> 02:13:59,440
Speaker 1: don't really seem as trustworthy, so I'm gonna go with

2541
02:13:59,520 --> 02:14:03,200
Speaker 1: a million time loss. Honestly, it's a better story. One

2542
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:05,960
Speaker 1: factor was that the target demo for this movie was kids,

2543
02:14:06,000 --> 02:14:09,640
Speaker 1: whose theater tickets were cheaper than adults, and also the

2544
02:14:09,720 --> 02:14:12,040
Speaker 1: movie was released about a week before the outbreak of

2545
02:14:12,200 --> 02:14:15,600
Speaker 1: WW two, the Big One in Europe, which obviously cut

2546
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:19,440
Speaker 1: into overseas revenue quite a bit. The Wizard of Oz

2547
02:14:19,480 --> 02:14:22,480
Speaker 1: apparently didn't turn to profit until its tenth anniversary release

2548
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:25,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty nine, when it added an additional one

2549
02:14:25,080 --> 02:14:28,040
Speaker 1: point five million or about fifteen million today.

2550
02:14:27,960 --> 02:14:29,560
Speaker 2: To its total box office gross.

2551
02:14:31,040 --> 02:14:33,200
Speaker 1: But the real boost in the film's popularity came and

2552
02:14:33,280 --> 02:14:36,560
Speaker 1: it became a staple on television. The Wizard of Oz

2553
02:14:36,640 --> 02:14:39,880
Speaker 1: received its television debut on November third, nineteen fifty six,

2554
02:14:40,200 --> 02:14:43,560
Speaker 1: after CBS paid two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars

2555
02:14:43,680 --> 02:14:47,400
Speaker 1: or nearly two million dollars today for broadcast rights. To

2556
02:14:47,480 --> 02:14:49,400
Speaker 1: give you a sense of how innovative it was, this

2557
02:14:49,560 --> 02:14:52,120
Speaker 1: was the first MGM film to be televised on a

2558
02:14:52,200 --> 02:14:56,640
Speaker 1: national network, which is weird, so movies on TV this

2559
02:14:56,720 --> 02:14:59,680
Speaker 1: was a very new thing. It was broadcast in color,

2560
02:15:00,040 --> 02:15:02,640
Speaker 1: despite the fact that only a handful of people actually

2561
02:15:02,800 --> 02:15:06,640
Speaker 1: owned color TVs in nineteen fifty six, and reportedly it

2562
02:15:06,680 --> 02:15:09,040
Speaker 1: would be well into the seventies before the majority of

2563
02:15:09,120 --> 02:15:11,320
Speaker 1: yours who saw this on TV saw it in color.

2564
02:15:12,320 --> 02:15:16,320
Speaker 1: The broadcast was a massive rating success, drawing in fifty

2565
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:18,720
Speaker 1: three percent of audiences.

2566
02:15:18,840 --> 02:15:20,080
Speaker 2: That's an insane share.

2567
02:15:21,120 --> 02:15:24,720
Speaker 1: It was repeated on December thirteenth, nineteen fifty nine, and

2568
02:15:24,880 --> 02:15:28,560
Speaker 1: gainned an even larger television audience, a share of fifty

2569
02:15:28,680 --> 02:15:32,000
Speaker 1: eight percent. From that point onward, the broadcast became an

2570
02:15:32,000 --> 02:15:35,280
Speaker 1: annual tradition, with families showing it to the next generation.

2571
02:15:36,160 --> 02:15:38,760
Speaker 1: The fact that it was essentially free, at least to

2572
02:15:38,760 --> 02:15:42,000
Speaker 1: anyone with access to a TV helped it transcend socio

2573
02:15:42,120 --> 02:15:46,280
Speaker 1: economic barriers, and by nineteen sixty nine, Time magazine proclaimed

2574
02:15:46,280 --> 02:15:49,400
Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz quote the most popular single film

2575
02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:53,120
Speaker 1: property in the history of US television and Judy Garland

2576
02:15:53,200 --> 02:15:56,560
Speaker 1: quote a national legend. None of this would have been

2577
02:15:56,640 --> 02:16:00,960
Speaker 1: possible without these repeated television airings. In fact, in all likelihood,

2578
02:16:01,080 --> 02:16:02,800
Speaker 1: the film would have probably been lumped in with a

2579
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:06,920
Speaker 1: host of other somewhat obscure technicolor of musical extravaganzas from

2580
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:09,760
Speaker 1: the Golden Age of Hollywood or is it Silver Age?

2581
02:16:09,800 --> 02:16:11,560
Speaker 2: I never know, I don't know colors.

2582
02:16:12,920 --> 02:16:16,839
Speaker 1: Ray Bolger the Scarecrow, had a poignant, if somewhat pointed

2583
02:16:16,920 --> 02:16:19,400
Speaker 1: comment on the film's reputation towards the end of his life.

2584
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:24,080
Speaker 1: We don't get any residuals, but we have something better,

2585
02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:28,400
Speaker 1: a kind of immortality, but not really, because he died

2586
02:16:28,440 --> 02:16:33,120
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven. Given it's slow burned success, it

2587
02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:35,680
Speaker 1: makes sense that Hollywood was hot to capitalize on the

2588
02:16:35,720 --> 02:16:39,240
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz. Surprisingly give it the tepid box office

2589
02:16:39,240 --> 02:16:42,360
Speaker 1: results upon US initial release, MGM reportedly wanted to make

2590
02:16:42,400 --> 02:16:46,360
Speaker 1: a sequel right away. The project was reportedly scrapped after

2591
02:16:46,440 --> 02:16:49,960
Speaker 1: resistance from Wicked Witch star Margaret Hamilton, who you'll recall

2592
02:16:50,600 --> 02:16:53,320
Speaker 1: was nearly burnt alive during the making of the original.

2593
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:56,240
Speaker 2: Also, how would they have brought her back I guess

2594
02:16:56,240 --> 02:16:58,040
Speaker 2: the same way they do in Wicked, where did they

2595
02:16:58,080 --> 02:16:59,200
Speaker 2: say she faked her death?

2596
02:16:59,320 --> 02:17:05,039
Speaker 1: But okay, spoilers, Well, never mind. And there are also

2597
02:17:05,120 --> 02:17:08,280
Speaker 1: concerns from MGM executives that Judy Starr was too big

2598
02:17:08,440 --> 02:17:10,960
Speaker 1: and they could no longer afford her, which now that

2599
02:17:11,040 --> 02:17:12,800
Speaker 1: I say, that doesn't even make any sense because she

2600
02:17:12,879 --> 02:17:13,720
Speaker 1: was under contract.

2601
02:17:13,879 --> 02:17:15,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know.

2602
02:17:15,320 --> 02:17:18,160
Speaker 1: While a genuine Wizard of Oz sequel never materialized with

2603
02:17:18,240 --> 02:17:21,280
Speaker 1: the OG cast, audiences have had plenty of spinoffs to

2604
02:17:21,320 --> 02:17:24,600
Speaker 1: keep them entertained over the years. Diana Ross, Michael Jackson,

2605
02:17:24,640 --> 02:17:27,480
Speaker 1: and Richard Pryor started in nineteen seventy eight. Motown musical

2606
02:17:27,600 --> 02:17:31,280
Speaker 1: Whiz Disney made return to OZ in nineteen eighty five,

2607
02:17:31,440 --> 02:17:33,119
Speaker 1: starring Perusa balk As Dorothy.

2608
02:17:33,640 --> 02:17:37,480
Speaker 2: That movie is genuinely terrifying. Yeah, I remember. I think

2609
02:17:38,360 --> 02:17:40,480
Speaker 2: several people have said that to me. That is a

2610
02:17:40,640 --> 02:17:44,000
Speaker 2: version of OZ that like that you like, yes it is,

2611
02:17:44,120 --> 02:17:47,240
Speaker 2: but I mean it's like it's so it is so wild.

2612
02:17:47,440 --> 02:17:50,879
Speaker 2: It must have been in their sort of era where

2613
02:17:50,920 --> 02:17:54,960
Speaker 2: the where they were like, well let's just fu try anything. Yeah, yeah,

2614
02:17:55,520 --> 02:17:57,720
Speaker 2: I think they were. Were they directly what years.

2615
02:17:57,560 --> 02:18:01,240
Speaker 1: Labyrin eighty six I want to say, oh, yeah, so they.

2616
02:18:01,160 --> 02:18:04,600
Speaker 2: Actually might have rushed this to get it out before Labyrinth.

2617
02:18:04,720 --> 02:18:08,000
Speaker 1: But Dark Crystal it was in that era of like truly,

2618
02:18:08,280 --> 02:18:13,959
Speaker 1: it was like mid eighties, the scariest era of kids movies. Yes, yeah, Labyrinth,

2619
02:18:14,120 --> 02:18:17,920
Speaker 1: Dark Crystal. This that weird movie legends.

2620
02:18:18,360 --> 02:18:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, this whole Return to Oz literally opens with Auntie

2621
02:18:22,280 --> 02:18:26,840
Speaker 2: m and Uncle Henry taking her to get ect electroconvulsive therapy.

2622
02:18:27,040 --> 02:18:34,199
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, oh Jesus, Okay, it was all muppets

2623
02:18:34,280 --> 02:18:35,800
Speaker 1: version of the Wizard of Oz in two thousand and

2624
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:38,080
Speaker 1: five that I have no memory of, which would have

2625
02:18:38,120 --> 02:18:39,600
Speaker 1: made sense because I was seventeen.

2626
02:18:39,680 --> 02:18:40,720
Speaker 2: But that's weird.

2627
02:18:41,400 --> 02:18:45,440
Speaker 1: H James Franco starred in twenty thirteen's Oz The Great

2628
02:18:45,480 --> 02:18:49,879
Speaker 1: and Powerful Prequel, which I remember thinking seemed kind of scuzzy,

2629
02:18:49,959 --> 02:18:51,560
Speaker 1: but that just might have been the Franco of it all.

2630
02:18:52,400 --> 02:18:56,160
Speaker 1: Twenty fourteen's animated Legends of Oz Dorothy's Return featured the

2631
02:18:56,200 --> 02:19:00,200
Speaker 1: voice of Leah Michelle dan Ackroyd, James Belushi. Yum us

2632
02:19:00,240 --> 02:19:03,600
Speaker 1: have the Uh Blues Brothers Reion there and Kelsey Grammar

2633
02:19:04,120 --> 02:19:06,720
Speaker 1: And I think there's another OZ spin off, but I

2634
02:19:06,800 --> 02:19:08,880
Speaker 1: can't seem to think of it at the moment, so

2635
02:19:09,120 --> 02:19:12,960
Speaker 1: we'll just leave it there with Ackroyd and Frasier, considering

2636
02:19:13,080 --> 02:19:15,680
Speaker 1: it has been almost five hours of doing this.

2637
02:19:16,440 --> 02:19:20,880
Speaker 2: Yes, you thought there wouldn't be enough. Wicked will be

2638
02:19:21,720 --> 02:19:24,720
Speaker 2: for another day, will it? I don't know. You seem

2639
02:19:24,720 --> 02:19:26,800
Speaker 2: to like it a lot more than me. Yeah, I

2640
02:19:26,840 --> 02:19:29,360
Speaker 2: guess if I did. If I did a music without

2641
02:19:29,400 --> 02:19:33,120
Speaker 2: doing lems, though, my mom would probably just me, uh yeah,

2642
02:19:34,320 --> 02:19:43,080
Speaker 2: it's phantom. Yeah, m we should write a musical for men. Hmm.

2643
02:19:43,160 --> 02:19:45,800
Speaker 1: What is the most manly musical that exists?

2644
02:19:46,360 --> 02:19:46,560
Speaker 2: Miss?

2645
02:19:49,480 --> 02:19:51,480
Speaker 1: I've never actually seen it. I know some of the

2646
02:19:51,600 --> 02:19:58,800
Speaker 1: songs though, Rent No, hmm, okay, I mean the producers.

2647
02:20:00,160 --> 02:20:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's okay, Chicago kind of Yeah, it's got dames.

2648
02:20:07,120 --> 02:20:12,440
Speaker 2: It does have dames, Heigel, let's see, uh Book of Mormon.

2649
02:20:12,600 --> 02:20:16,400
Speaker 1: Oh, Jersey Boys, that's like that is that's like the

2650
02:20:16,520 --> 02:20:19,000
Speaker 1: musical for you, like your your racist uncle.

2651
02:20:22,080 --> 02:20:25,320
Speaker 2: I've seen it many times. Don't come out me, Yeah no,

2652
02:20:25,480 --> 02:20:27,000
Speaker 2: but I mean it's just so funny that like you

2653
02:20:27,080 --> 02:20:29,560
Speaker 2: pick up. Of course, it's about a group of men

2654
02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:36,080
Speaker 2: who sing like women. Uh yeah, I'm gonna think about

2655
02:20:36,480 --> 02:20:40,920
Speaker 2: Jersey boys. Okay, all right, Jersey boys. Most dude dudes,

2656
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:45,800
Speaker 2: rock move du musical. Okay, yeah, there you go. Take

2657
02:20:45,879 --> 02:20:47,240
Speaker 2: that New York mag Well.

2658
02:20:47,160 --> 02:20:49,359
Speaker 1: Folks, before we go, I just want to thank everybody

2659
02:20:49,480 --> 02:20:52,240
Speaker 1: for the very kind notes and checking in with me

2660
02:20:52,440 --> 02:20:53,920
Speaker 1: after hearing.

2661
02:20:53,680 --> 02:20:57,280
Speaker 2: About my pat with the live reviewed you had pneumonia.

2662
02:20:58,400 --> 02:21:01,040
Speaker 1: Now I've got a lot of nice messages and that

2663
02:21:01,280 --> 02:21:03,920
Speaker 1: really is very touching. It it warms my heart not

2664
02:21:04,000 --> 02:21:06,879
Speaker 1: to one hundred and five degrees, but still warms it significantly.

2665
02:21:07,000 --> 02:21:09,080
Speaker 2: So thank you very very much. It's very kind of you.

2666
02:21:09,360 --> 02:21:12,760
Speaker 1: Oh also, sorry, before we sign out, I have to

2667
02:21:12,800 --> 02:21:16,680
Speaker 1: share this incredible fact. So in our last episode we

2668
02:21:16,800 --> 02:21:18,879
Speaker 1: were talking about Buddy Rich tapes.

2669
02:21:18,959 --> 02:21:21,000
Speaker 2: The tapes from famed.

2670
02:21:20,959 --> 02:21:24,480
Speaker 1: Big band drummer Buddy Rich losing it on his band

2671
02:21:25,720 --> 02:21:28,400
Speaker 1: in their tour bus, was recorded by one of his

2672
02:21:28,520 --> 02:21:31,879
Speaker 1: band members just to document the incredible verbal abuse they

2673
02:21:31,920 --> 02:21:34,880
Speaker 1: are regularly subjected to. Kind of a deep cut. Like

2674
02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:37,480
Speaker 1: I thought, it was kind of there just to amuse ourselves.

2675
02:21:37,920 --> 02:21:42,400
Speaker 1: But within hours of me publishing that episode, we heard

2676
02:21:42,440 --> 02:21:45,840
Speaker 1: from a friend of the pod, Casey, who said, I'm

2677
02:21:45,879 --> 02:21:47,960
Speaker 1: currently listening to the newest episode and just got to

2678
02:21:48,040 --> 02:21:50,320
Speaker 1: the part about the Buddy Rich tapes. My cousin Lee

2679
02:21:50,520 --> 02:21:53,920
Speaker 1: Musiker is the band member who made that recording. Blew

2680
02:21:54,120 --> 02:21:56,240
Speaker 1: my mind. I could not believe it. I kind of

2681
02:21:56,280 --> 02:21:58,160
Speaker 1: want to interview him now and hear all about that.

2682
02:21:58,440 --> 02:21:59,760
Speaker 1: That is shocking to me.

2683
02:22:00,280 --> 02:22:02,120
Speaker 2: I just love that we are reaching the point of

2684
02:22:02,200 --> 02:22:06,640
Speaker 2: this podcast where we are degrees of separation from things. Yes, yes,

2685
02:22:06,760 --> 02:22:07,400
Speaker 2: that is nuts.

2686
02:22:07,959 --> 02:22:12,640
Speaker 1: And Casey, by the way, runs an incredible bakery in Holmesdale, Pennsylvania,

2687
02:22:12,800 --> 02:22:15,720
Speaker 1: be Kind bake House. Find them on Instagram.

2688
02:22:16,040 --> 02:22:17,600
Speaker 2: We sold out. You heard it here first.

2689
02:22:17,720 --> 02:22:21,240
Speaker 1: Oh, I'll do anything for sweet trees. Come on, Oh

2690
02:22:21,320 --> 02:22:24,800
Speaker 1: my god, they look amazing, like absolutely incredible. There's a

2691
02:22:24,920 --> 02:22:27,280
Speaker 1: much of mochi cake on here, which made for Lunar

2692
02:22:27,360 --> 02:22:31,840
Speaker 1: New Year's There's a blueberry lavender cream pie and a

2693
02:22:31,959 --> 02:22:33,440
Speaker 1: chocolate expresso pie.

2694
02:22:33,600 --> 02:22:35,840
Speaker 2: Believe slowly fade out on yourself reading these.

2695
02:22:38,240 --> 02:22:41,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what else you got here? A savory

2696
02:22:41,160 --> 02:22:44,640
Speaker 1: French onion gallet. Okay, savory, but it looks good enough

2697
02:22:44,680 --> 02:22:49,200
Speaker 1: that I'll tolerate it. Chocolate tahini cake, Oh my god, yeah, no, folks,

2698
02:22:49,280 --> 02:22:49,840
Speaker 1: check this out.

2699
02:22:50,120 --> 02:22:51,440
Speaker 2: Strawberry shortcake cookie.

2700
02:22:51,640 --> 02:22:53,480
Speaker 1: I've never heard of a strawberry short cake cookie.

2701
02:22:53,520 --> 02:22:54,680
Speaker 2: What a great idea.

2702
02:22:55,400 --> 02:22:57,520
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, this is amazing, So check it out. Be

2703
02:22:57,680 --> 02:23:00,600
Speaker 1: Kind bake House on Instagram looks amazing. If you're do

2704
02:23:00,680 --> 02:23:03,039
Speaker 1: the Homestale, Pennsylvania area, check it out.

2705
02:23:03,160 --> 02:23:07,280
Speaker 2: And we've been Uh, we're back, baby, We're back, baby.

2706
02:23:07,320 --> 02:23:08,840
Speaker 1: It's gonna be two in a row for the first

2707
02:23:08,879 --> 02:23:10,520
Speaker 1: time in quite some time.

2708
02:23:10,600 --> 02:23:11,680
Speaker 2: Thanks for bearing with us.

2709
02:23:11,879 --> 02:23:14,000
Speaker 1: Thank you for putting up with us for multiple reasons.

2710
02:23:14,480 --> 02:23:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, for so many. My name is Alex Heigel and.

2711
02:23:16,959 --> 02:23:25,400
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan Runtogg. Folks, we'll ktch you next time. Too

2712
02:23:25,480 --> 02:23:29,400
Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of iHeart Radio. The show's executive.

2713
02:23:28,959 --> 02:23:31,240
Speaker 2: Producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtog.

2714
02:23:31,400 --> 02:23:34,240
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June.

2715
02:23:34,520 --> 02:23:37,640
Speaker 2: The show was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan Runtog

2716
02:23:37,680 --> 02:23:38,840
Speaker 2: and Alex Heigel.

2717
02:23:38,640 --> 02:23:41,800
Speaker 1: With original music by Seth Applebaum. I'm a Ghost Funk Orchestra.

2718
02:23:42,160 --> 02:23:44,200
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2719
02:23:44,280 --> 02:23:47,240
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and iHeartRadio, visit the

2720
02:23:47,280 --> 02:23:50,560
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

2721
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:51,279
Speaker 1: favorite shows.