WEBVTT - Teen Clown Killer Charged With First Degree Murder 

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, that folks. It is Friday, August seventh, and the

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<v Speaker 1>crime was bizarre enough hearing that a man was murdered

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<v Speaker 1>by someone in a clown costume. Now a teenager is

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<v Speaker 1>the one who's been charged in this crime, and with that,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rodesen. The

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<v Speaker 1>other element is there's video to go along with this,

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<v Speaker 1>which made the story you've been creepier.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because honestly, all the details of this particular crime

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<v Speaker 2>resemble a horror movie. It doesn't actually feel like this

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<v Speaker 2>is real, and yet it happened. And when you start

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<v Speaker 2>to hear what happened in the hours leading up to

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<v Speaker 2>the actual murder.

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<v Speaker 3>This is as scary as it gets.

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<v Speaker 2>This is right out of it or strangers or like,

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<v Speaker 2>name the horror movie that involves a clown, or someone

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<v Speaker 2>peering into a door cam, or someone who is stalking

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<v Speaker 2>you around your windows while you're at home at night. Literally,

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<v Speaker 2>this crime has all of those elements, and unfortunately it's real.

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<v Speaker 1>Fair to say, generally speaking, most people are creeped out

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<v Speaker 1>by clowns or people like clowns.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, I've never been a fan, and I always

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<v Speaker 2>felt like I was the outlier like, I have never

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<v Speaker 2>been well back.

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<v Speaker 3>In the day when circuses were actually acceptable.

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<v Speaker 2>Now they're not politically correct, But I've never been to

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<v Speaker 2>the circus. I've never genuinely put myself in the presence

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<v Speaker 2>of a clown, because, yeah, when I watched and read

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<v Speaker 2>the book it and watched the movie that point forward,

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<v Speaker 2>I was not a fan of clowns.

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<v Speaker 1>Even before, Even if you're not watching it in a

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<v Speaker 1>horror setting, generally speaking, clowns have always just creeped me out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you have an adult man. Usually I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know too many female clowns. But so fine, let's just

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<v Speaker 2>go with an adult man who is around children, who

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<v Speaker 2>is painted disguised, has exaggerated features his nose, his hair,

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<v Speaker 2>his feet, and you don't know what he actually looks like.

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<v Speaker 2>He doesn't speak, he just giggles and laughs. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he has balloons. The whole thing is just, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>on a certain level, frightening because you don't know the

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<v Speaker 2>identity and you don't know the motivation.

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<v Speaker 1>So I didn't know we were going to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to set it up that much. But robes the point

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<v Speaker 1>there being the idea of anybody wherever you live, in

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<v Speaker 1>your neighborhood anywhere in this country, of someone in a

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<v Speaker 1>clown costume lurking throughout the neighborhood for a while, and

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<v Speaker 1>then you find out the person who's been peering through windows,

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<v Speaker 1>who's been captured on ring cam, actually stabbed and killed

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<v Speaker 1>somebody in your neighborhood. Robes, this is just Look, the

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<v Speaker 1>murder itself is awful, but there's just elements to it

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<v Speaker 1>that make it horror esque.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and look, I actually want to apologize to anyone

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<v Speaker 2>out there who is a clown, who loves a clown,

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<v Speaker 2>who appreciates the art of being a clown.

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<v Speaker 3>I understand all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>It has wonderful history in vaudeville, et cetera, entertaining it's

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<v Speaker 2>been hijacked. Okay, the art of being a clown has

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<v Speaker 2>been hijacked in a lot of ways by horror movies.

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<v Speaker 2>And maybe let's all blame Stephen King to begin with

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<v Speaker 2>with Pennywise, but maybe John Wayne Gacy could also take

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<v Speaker 2>some blame for that as well, using a clown costume

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<v Speaker 2>to murder children, So he is probably one of the

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<v Speaker 2>scariest real life serial killers.

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<v Speaker 3>So add that with.

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<v Speaker 2>Penny Wise and just this whole anonymous idea that someone

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<v Speaker 2>could be anonymous around your children, entertaining them. The whole thing,

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<v Speaker 2>at least in present day, given all that I just mentioned,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a scary thing. Now, take a clown out

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<v Speaker 2>of the circus or out of a children's party, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>or out of an environment where you would expect a

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<v Speaker 2>clown to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Grocery store, your neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>What clown anywhere side of a circus or a children's party,

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<v Speaker 2>and you're going to maybe be a little scared.

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<v Speaker 3>What is okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Imagine a clown just driving a Toyota camera on the highway.

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<v Speaker 3>It's inherently scary.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine a clown on the side of the road when

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<v Speaker 2>you're driving. Imagine a clown coming up to your doorstep

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<v Speaker 2>unannounced for no reason.

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<v Speaker 3>He would be freaked out.

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<v Speaker 2>So we say all of this to actually set up

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<v Speaker 2>a real story. So this happened this week, and as

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<v Speaker 2>you pointed out at the beginning of this episode, Babe,

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<v Speaker 2>a fifteen year old child has now been arrested and

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<v Speaker 2>charged with first degree murder. And police say, yes, that

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<v Speaker 2>teen dressed as a clown stabbed a seventy eight year

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<v Speaker 2>old man to death at a bus stop, But yes,

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<v Speaker 2>as we were alluding to, hours before, several doorbell cams

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<v Speaker 2>ring cams captured video of this teen dressed as a clown,

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<v Speaker 2>going door to door and saying and whispering some scary stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>That is it doesn't actually feel real. And to think

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<v Speaker 2>that it actually happened in East Saint Louis, Illinois, and

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<v Speaker 2>the arrest just took place late yesterday, but this all

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<v Speaker 2>happened on Monday night.

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<v Speaker 1>The I don't know robes what happens to a fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>year old? This is a very up close and personal

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<v Speaker 1>stabbing that they believe is a random attack where there

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<v Speaker 1>was no why why? Yes, I would like to know

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<v Speaker 1>why he's in a clown suit?

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<v Speaker 3>Did you instill fear?

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<v Speaker 1>I would imagine, Okay, that's what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Robe.

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<v Speaker 1>Then he he got dressed and had a mission to

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<v Speaker 1>go out and do something. First, I don't know he

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<v Speaker 1>worked at Chuck E Cheese. No sorr, I shouldn't throw

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck E Cheese and what I'm saying, but you get

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<v Speaker 1>if he worked somewhere where this was his work costume?

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<v Speaker 3>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>What is he doing? And wrote? I didn't see it?

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<v Speaker 1>But did they really a picture? Did you see one

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<v Speaker 1>of the murder weapons, the knife.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I didn't see the murder weapon.

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<v Speaker 1>It's described as some yes, Michael Myers type stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>It is right out of Halloween. And so look, this

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<v Speaker 2>is beyond scary. So this elderly man is waiting at.

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<v Speaker 3>A bus stop. He's stabbed by a teen.

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<v Speaker 2>They get a report that there is a body in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle of the roadway at ten pm on a

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<v Speaker 2>Monday night in East Saint Louis. And yes, the coroner's

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<v Speaker 2>office confirmed. And did we mention, sadly, the victim's name.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really big part of this seventy eight year

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<v Speaker 2>old John w Allen. But he died of multiple stab wounds.

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<v Speaker 1>A seventy eight.

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<v Speaker 2>Year old, multiple stab this guy waiting for a bus

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<v Speaker 2>And we'll get into history and just a bit.

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<v Speaker 3>This is unbelievably tragic.

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<v Speaker 2>And so yes, the prosecutor in this case wants to

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<v Speaker 2>try this fifteen year old as an adult. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>have his name, they haven't released it yet because yes, technically,

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<v Speaker 2>well actually.

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<v Speaker 3>He is a juvenile.

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<v Speaker 2>If they do charge him as an adult, we will

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<v Speaker 2>get more information about who this kid is, what his

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<v Speaker 2>name is. But I think so you get up on

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<v Speaker 2>the scene and then police start putting it all together,

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<v Speaker 2>and they realize there have been videos circulating online that

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<v Speaker 2>seemed like a hoax. One neighbor shared a video showing

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<v Speaker 2>a clip of yes, this clown approaching her mother's door,

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<v Speaker 2>and in that video, the clown whispers, I've been looking

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<v Speaker 2>for you. She said, thank god, her mom didn't answer,

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<v Speaker 2>and the clown walks away. This is about an hour

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<v Speaker 2>before Alan's body was discovered three blocks.

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<v Speaker 3>Away from the crime scene.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine that was your mom and thankfully she

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<v Speaker 2>didn't answer. But you see this video and you think,

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<v Speaker 2>holy hell. Hours later he found a victim, but he was,

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<v Speaker 2>it seems, looking for someone to open the door.

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<v Speaker 1>But well, he's just wandering around. He's looking for somebody

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<v Speaker 1>to kill. What's going on with a fifteen year old.

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<v Speaker 3>That's beyond scary.

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<v Speaker 2>And there was another doorbell camera in the area and

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like the exact same clown where someone goes

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<v Speaker 2>into the doorbell cam and says, I have a gift

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<v Speaker 2>for you. I mean, it seems like if this is

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<v Speaker 2>the same person who ultimately ended up killing this man,

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<v Speaker 2>he was on a mission and he was just waiting

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<v Speaker 2>for someone to open the door. It reminds me of

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<v Speaker 2>the Purge. It literally has all the hallmarks of a

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<v Speaker 2>horror movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I just love to get answers that they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have at this point. Robes, they haven't identified a motive,

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<v Speaker 1>they have no reason. They have why as a fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>year old? What possesses a fifteen year old? You have

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<v Speaker 1>to think something's wrong with this kid, like seriously, like

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<v Speaker 1>certifiably wrong with this kid. That's a different type of violence.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not reactionary. It's it seems Robes.

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<v Speaker 2>To attention seeking, and to that, well, it's evil, it's evil,

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<v Speaker 2>for sure, but it's attention seeking as well.

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<v Speaker 1>The part of me is stabbing and there's up close

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<v Speaker 1>to seventy an old man, a seventy year old guy

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<v Speaker 1>who's waiting on the bus.

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<v Speaker 2>That doesn't make any sense. And yes, the random nature

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<v Speaker 2>of this is what is so puzzling. And that's the

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<v Speaker 2>scary part of it. Look you look, it's never obviously okay,

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<v Speaker 2>murder is rarely justifiable. But when you hear about a

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<v Speaker 2>random act of violence, that's when our head starts spinning.

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<v Speaker 2>That's when people start wondering why what possesses somebody? And look,

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<v Speaker 2>neighbors said, they told, they said they saw a person

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<v Speaker 2>going door to door with that large knife, peering through windows.

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<v Speaker 3>In some cases, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>He was caught on a ring cam a couple of times,

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<v Speaker 2>but a lot of other folks reported just with their

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<v Speaker 2>own naked eyes seeing him peering into their windows in

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<v Speaker 2>a clown costume with a knife. I cannot imagine. So

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<v Speaker 2>police are now actually asking anyone who's living in that

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<v Speaker 2>area please to give them all all the video they

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<v Speaker 2>may have, because they want to know how many doors

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<v Speaker 2>we know.

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<v Speaker 3>They're saying he went door to door, He.

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<v Speaker 2>Was going from house to house and ultimately landed on

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<v Speaker 2>this man who was waiting at a bus stop. And look,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a crazy official police statement. I was just thinking,

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<v Speaker 2>like the idea, this is real. But to hear the

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<v Speaker 2>police department just talk about that he was stabbed in

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<v Speaker 2>a random attack by a suspect wearing a clown outfit,

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<v Speaker 2>you almost would feel like that wasn't a real police statement.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet that is what they're dealing with in eas

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<v Speaker 2>Saint Louis, Illinois right now.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't have all the images I saw the mask

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<v Speaker 1>was on, fully, was there?

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<v Speaker 2>Ever?

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<v Speaker 1>Any time you ever saw a partial there.

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<v Speaker 2>You can kind of see a little bit of his face. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>he has a mask on the lower part, and they

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<v Speaker 2>actually said because of the ringcam videos, he was identified quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>The reason why there was a little bit of a

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<v Speaker 2>lag between when the murder took place and when he

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<v Speaker 2>was arrested is just them finding him. But they found him,

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<v Speaker 2>but they knew who he was almost immediately, So whatever

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<v Speaker 2>disguise he had, it was apparently not effective because they

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<v Speaker 2>were able to determine who he was pretty quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>Now when we come back, look, we talk about this crime.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously, the headline and the scary part of it is

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that this fifteen year old was dressed in

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<v Speaker 2>a clown costume. But I wanted, and I think this

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<v Speaker 2>is important, we want to come back after the break

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<v Speaker 2>and talk about who the victim was in this awful,

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<v Speaker 2>horrific murder. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. We're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about this scary clown murder that doesn't actually seem

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<v Speaker 2>like a real life crime, seems like a horror movie.

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<v Speaker 2>But yes, we have a fifteen year old suspect charged

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<v Speaker 2>with first degree murder for the murder of seventy eight

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<v Speaker 2>year old John w Allen.

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<v Speaker 3>This is a guy who is at a bus stop.

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<v Speaker 3>He is an elderly man.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a Navy veteran, babe, and a retired bus driver.

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<v Speaker 2>He drove a school bus for thirty five years.

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<v Speaker 3>Navy veteran.

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<v Speaker 1>That just pisses you off.

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<v Speaker 3>It does.

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<v Speaker 1>Since the guy has been serving for his entire life,

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<v Speaker 1>He's been doing hard work, difficult work, trying work. But bro,

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<v Speaker 1>that's man. That sucks.

0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.040
<v Speaker 2>I know we can all get caught up in this

0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 2>sallaciousness of this murder, But when I started reading about

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.080
<v Speaker 2>this man, I have chills from head to toe. His sister,

0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.480
<v Speaker 2>and I love that his sister honored him and spoke

0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.360
<v Speaker 2>about him and wanted people to know who her brother was.

0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.520
<v Speaker 2>She said he was the best brother ever. That someone

0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 2>took away. I'm gonna miss him.

0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:50.439
<v Speaker 3>She said. He was living in a senior living.

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<v Speaker 2>Complex and he had just gone to the VA Hospital

0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.040
<v Speaker 2>for a check up on Monday. Here he is taking

0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 2>care of his health, making sure he's all good. Goes

0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 2>to a CHP on Monday, and then was planning to

0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:07.120
<v Speaker 2>visit his sister, who lives near the bus stop where

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.920
<v Speaker 2>he was attacked. So he was going to visit her,

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, she's pissed, she's angry, and she wants folks

0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:19.040
<v Speaker 2>to remember her brother. Just hearing these types of details,

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.320
<v Speaker 2>she said he they called him baby boy because he

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:24.720
<v Speaker 2>was the youngest of six siblings.

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:25.960
<v Speaker 3>She said he was a.

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<v Speaker 2>Loyal church goer, spent his life serving others. As you

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.880
<v Speaker 2>just pointed out, not just a navy veteran, but a

0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:35.920
<v Speaker 2>bus driver, a church goer, and a veteran.

0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.120
<v Speaker 3>That just sucks.

0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Seventy eight year old is not supposed to die violently.

0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 1>It's certainly not in a random act of violence. That's

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.599
<v Speaker 1>some man in life is something. This is one of

0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.160
<v Speaker 1>those times where you could just go why why is this?

0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Why do things happen?

0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 3>Wrong? Plays?

0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Wrong time, wrong guy, wrong night? I mean, some kid lurking.

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Thinking it's funny, thinking he's scared, people thinking he's powerful.

0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Here, I really really need to hear what was going

0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:05.959
<v Speaker 1>on with this kid too.

0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And look, I think we will if the prosecutor follows

0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>through with what he wants to do. And I would

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.440
<v Speaker 2>imagine in this case, given to details, given who the

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.000
<v Speaker 2>victim was, given the randomness of this, and wanting to

0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.400
<v Speaker 2>send a message to anyone who thinks it's cute or funny,

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.920
<v Speaker 2>who knows if it's gang related or if it's some

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of teen initiation where he's proven something to somebody,

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:32.720
<v Speaker 2>but they need to make this actually be something of

0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a lesson to others, and so yes, if he's charged

0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.160
<v Speaker 2>with first degree murder and charged as an adult, we

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>will get his name, we will get his details, and look,

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:42.640
<v Speaker 2>the why is always elusive.

0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 3>Everyone always wants to understand.

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 2>And maybe we'll understand it, maybe we won't, but let's

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.880
<v Speaker 2>hope for the family of John w Allen that they

0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:55.160
<v Speaker 2>get some justice because this is a awful, horrific, scary

0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 2>as hell crime. But it seems like a beautiful man

0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.200
<v Speaker 2>was lost in the process, and we just don't want

0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 2>anyone to forget that, because yes, the headlines will say

0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 2>clown killer, but there was a beautiful man who lost

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:12.400
<v Speaker 2>his life because of just some who knows fifteen year

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:16.520
<v Speaker 2>old's fascination with the abomination. But anyway, I wanted to

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.960
<v Speaker 2>get this on your radar. Will continue to follow this

0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 2>story for you out of Saint Louis, but we always

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 2>appreciate you listening to us.

0:15:21.960 --> 0:15:25.520
<v Speaker 3>Everyone. I made Robach alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk soon.