Speaker 1: Hey, that folks. It is Friday, August seventh, and the
Speaker 1: crime was bizarre enough hearing that a man was murdered
Speaker 1: by someone in a clown costume. Now a teenager is
Speaker 1: the one who's been charged in this crime, and with that,
Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Rodesen. The
Speaker 1: other element is there's video to go along with this,
Speaker 1: which made the story you've been creepier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because honestly, all the details of this particular crime
Speaker 2: resemble a horror movie. It doesn't actually feel like this
Speaker 2: is real, and yet it happened. And when you start
Speaker 2: to hear what happened in the hours leading up to
Speaker 2: the actual murder.
Speaker 3: This is as scary as it gets.
Speaker 2: This is right out of it or strangers or like,
Speaker 2: name the horror movie that involves a clown, or someone
Speaker 2: peering into a door cam, or someone who is stalking
Speaker 2: you around your windows while you're at home at night. Literally,
Speaker 2: this crime has all of those elements, and unfortunately it's real.
Speaker 1: Fair to say, generally speaking, most people are creeped out
Speaker 1: by clowns or people like clowns.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I've never been a fan, and I always
Speaker 2: felt like I was the outlier like, I have never
Speaker 2: been well back.
Speaker 3: In the day when circuses were actually acceptable.
Speaker 2: Now they're not politically correct, But I've never been to
Speaker 2: the circus. I've never genuinely put myself in the presence
Speaker 2: of a clown, because, yeah, when I watched and read
Speaker 2: the book it and watched the movie that point forward,
Speaker 2: I was not a fan of clowns.
Speaker 1: Even before, Even if you're not watching it in a
Speaker 1: horror setting, generally speaking, clowns have always just creeped me out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have an adult man. Usually I don't
Speaker 2: know too many female clowns. But so fine, let's just
Speaker 2: go with an adult man who is around children, who
Speaker 2: is painted disguised, has exaggerated features his nose, his hair,
Speaker 2: his feet, and you don't know what he actually looks like.
Speaker 2: He doesn't speak, he just giggles and laughs. I mean,
Speaker 2: he has balloons. The whole thing is just, I think,
Speaker 2: on a certain level, frightening because you don't know the
Speaker 2: identity and you don't know the motivation.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know we were going to be able
Speaker 1: to set it up that much. But robes the point
Speaker 1: there being the idea of anybody wherever you live, in
Speaker 1: your neighborhood anywhere in this country, of someone in a
Speaker 1: clown costume lurking throughout the neighborhood for a while, and
Speaker 1: then you find out the person who's been peering through windows,
Speaker 1: who's been captured on ring cam, actually stabbed and killed
Speaker 1: somebody in your neighborhood. Robes, this is just Look, the
Speaker 1: murder itself is awful, but there's just elements to it
Speaker 1: that make it horror esque.
Speaker 2: Yes, and look, I actually want to apologize to anyone
Speaker 2: out there who is a clown, who loves a clown,
Speaker 2: who appreciates the art of being a clown.
Speaker 3: I understand all of that.
Speaker 2: It has wonderful history in vaudeville, et cetera, entertaining it's
Speaker 2: been hijacked. Okay, the art of being a clown has
Speaker 2: been hijacked in a lot of ways by horror movies.
Speaker 2: And maybe let's all blame Stephen King to begin with
Speaker 2: with Pennywise, but maybe John Wayne Gacy could also take
Speaker 2: some blame for that as well, using a clown costume
Speaker 2: to murder children, So he is probably one of the
Speaker 2: scariest real life serial killers.
Speaker 3: So add that with.
Speaker 2: Penny Wise and just this whole anonymous idea that someone
Speaker 2: could be anonymous around your children, entertaining them. The whole thing,
Speaker 2: at least in present day, given all that I just mentioned,
Speaker 2: it's just a scary thing. Now, take a clown out
Speaker 2: of the circus or out of a children's party, yes,
Speaker 2: or out of an environment where you would expect a
Speaker 2: clown to be.
Speaker 1: Grocery store, your neighborhood.
Speaker 2: What clown anywhere side of a circus or a children's party,
Speaker 2: and you're going to maybe be a little scared.
Speaker 3: What is okay?
Speaker 1: Imagine a clown just driving a Toyota camera on the highway.
Speaker 3: It's inherently scary.
Speaker 2: Imagine a clown on the side of the road when
Speaker 2: you're driving. Imagine a clown coming up to your doorstep
Speaker 2: unannounced for no reason.
Speaker 3: He would be freaked out.
Speaker 2: So we say all of this to actually set up
Speaker 2: a real story. So this happened this week, and as
Speaker 2: you pointed out at the beginning of this episode, Babe,
Speaker 2: a fifteen year old child has now been arrested and
Speaker 2: charged with first degree murder. And police say, yes, that
Speaker 2: teen dressed as a clown stabbed a seventy eight year
Speaker 2: old man to death at a bus stop, But yes,
Speaker 2: as we were alluding to, hours before, several doorbell cams
Speaker 2: ring cams captured video of this teen dressed as a clown,
Speaker 2: going door to door and saying and whispering some scary stuff.
Speaker 2: That is it doesn't actually feel real. And to think
Speaker 2: that it actually happened in East Saint Louis, Illinois, and
Speaker 2: the arrest just took place late yesterday, but this all
Speaker 2: happened on Monday night.
Speaker 1: The I don't know robes what happens to a fifteen
Speaker 1: year old? This is a very up close and personal
Speaker 1: stabbing that they believe is a random attack where there
Speaker 1: was no why why? Yes, I would like to know
Speaker 1: why he's in a clown suit?
Speaker 3: Did you instill fear?
Speaker 1: I would imagine, Okay, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Robe.
Speaker 1: Then he he got dressed and had a mission to
Speaker 1: go out and do something. First, I don't know he
Speaker 1: worked at Chuck E Cheese. No sorr, I shouldn't throw
Speaker 1: Chuck E Cheese and what I'm saying, but you get
Speaker 1: if he worked somewhere where this was his work costume?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: What is he doing? And wrote? I didn't see it?
Speaker 1: But did they really a picture? Did you see one
Speaker 1: of the murder weapons, the knife.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't see the murder weapon.
Speaker 1: It's described as some yes, Michael Myers type stuff.
Speaker 2: It is right out of Halloween. And so look, this
Speaker 2: is beyond scary. So this elderly man is waiting at.
Speaker 3: A bus stop. He's stabbed by a teen.
Speaker 2: They get a report that there is a body in
Speaker 2: the middle of the roadway at ten pm on a
Speaker 2: Monday night in East Saint Louis. And yes, the coroner's
Speaker 2: office confirmed. And did we mention, sadly, the victim's name.
Speaker 2: That's a really big part of this seventy eight year
Speaker 2: old John w Allen. But he died of multiple stab wounds.
Speaker 1: A seventy eight.
Speaker 2: Year old, multiple stab this guy waiting for a bus
Speaker 2: And we'll get into history and just a bit.
Speaker 3: This is unbelievably tragic.
Speaker 2: And so yes, the prosecutor in this case wants to
Speaker 2: try this fifteen year old as an adult. We don't
Speaker 2: have his name, they haven't released it yet because yes, technically,
Speaker 2: well actually.
Speaker 3: He is a juvenile.
Speaker 2: If they do charge him as an adult, we will
Speaker 2: get more information about who this kid is, what his
Speaker 2: name is. But I think so you get up on
Speaker 2: the scene and then police start putting it all together,
Speaker 2: and they realize there have been videos circulating online that
Speaker 2: seemed like a hoax. One neighbor shared a video showing
Speaker 2: a clip of yes, this clown approaching her mother's door,
Speaker 2: and in that video, the clown whispers, I've been looking
Speaker 2: for you. She said, thank god, her mom didn't answer,
Speaker 2: and the clown walks away. This is about an hour
Speaker 2: before Alan's body was discovered three blocks.
Speaker 3: Away from the crime scene.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine that was your mom and thankfully she
Speaker 2: didn't answer. But you see this video and you think,
Speaker 2: holy hell. Hours later he found a victim, but he was,
Speaker 2: it seems, looking for someone to open the door.
Speaker 1: But well, he's just wandering around. He's looking for somebody
Speaker 1: to kill. What's going on with a fifteen year old.
Speaker 3: That's beyond scary.
Speaker 2: And there was another doorbell camera in the area and
Speaker 2: it looks like the exact same clown where someone goes
Speaker 2: into the doorbell cam and says, I have a gift
Speaker 2: for you. I mean, it seems like if this is
Speaker 2: the same person who ultimately ended up killing this man,
Speaker 2: he was on a mission and he was just waiting
Speaker 2: for someone to open the door. It reminds me of
Speaker 2: the Purge. It literally has all the hallmarks of a
Speaker 2: horror movie.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just love to get answers that they
Speaker 1: don't have at this point. Robes, they haven't identified a motive,
Speaker 1: they have no reason. They have why as a fifteen
Speaker 1: year old? What possesses a fifteen year old? You have
Speaker 1: to think something's wrong with this kid, like seriously, like
Speaker 1: certifiably wrong with this kid. That's a different type of violence.
Speaker 1: It's not reactionary. It's it seems Robes.
Speaker 2: To attention seeking, and to that, well, it's evil, it's evil,
Speaker 2: for sure, but it's attention seeking as well.
Speaker 1: The part of me is stabbing and there's up close
Speaker 1: to seventy an old man, a seventy year old guy
Speaker 1: who's waiting on the bus.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense. And yes, the random nature
Speaker 2: of this is what is so puzzling. And that's the
Speaker 2: scary part of it. Look you look, it's never obviously okay,
Speaker 2: murder is rarely justifiable. But when you hear about a
Speaker 2: random act of violence, that's when our head starts spinning.
Speaker 2: That's when people start wondering why what possesses somebody? And look,
Speaker 2: neighbors said, they told, they said they saw a person
Speaker 2: going door to door with that large knife, peering through windows.
Speaker 3: In some cases, yes.
Speaker 2: He was caught on a ring cam a couple of times,
Speaker 2: but a lot of other folks reported just with their
Speaker 2: own naked eyes seeing him peering into their windows in
Speaker 2: a clown costume with a knife. I cannot imagine. So
Speaker 2: police are now actually asking anyone who's living in that
Speaker 2: area please to give them all all the video they
Speaker 2: may have, because they want to know how many doors
Speaker 2: we know.
Speaker 3: They're saying he went door to door, He.
Speaker 2: Was going from house to house and ultimately landed on
Speaker 2: this man who was waiting at a bus stop. And look,
Speaker 2: this is a crazy official police statement. I was just thinking,
Speaker 2: like the idea, this is real. But to hear the
Speaker 2: police department just talk about that he was stabbed in
Speaker 2: a random attack by a suspect wearing a clown outfit,
Speaker 2: you almost would feel like that wasn't a real police statement.
Speaker 2: And yet that is what they're dealing with in eas
Speaker 2: Saint Louis, Illinois right now.
Speaker 1: They didn't have all the images I saw the mask
Speaker 1: was on, fully, was there?
Speaker 2: Ever?
Speaker 1: Any time you ever saw a partial there.
Speaker 2: You can kind of see a little bit of his face. Yes,
Speaker 2: he has a mask on the lower part, and they
Speaker 2: actually said because of the ringcam videos, he was identified quickly.
Speaker 2: The reason why there was a little bit of a
Speaker 2: lag between when the murder took place and when he
Speaker 2: was arrested is just them finding him. But they found him,
Speaker 2: but they knew who he was almost immediately, So whatever
Speaker 2: disguise he had, it was apparently not effective because they
Speaker 2: were able to determine who he was pretty quickly.
Speaker 3: Now when we come back, look, we talk about this crime.
Speaker 2: Obviously, the headline and the scary part of it is
Speaker 2: the fact that this fifteen year old was dressed in
Speaker 2: a clown costume. But I wanted, and I think this
Speaker 2: is important, we want to come back after the break
Speaker 2: and talk about who the victim was in this awful,
Speaker 2: horrific murder. Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. We're
Speaker 2: talking about this scary clown murder that doesn't actually seem
Speaker 2: like a real life crime, seems like a horror movie.
Speaker 2: But yes, we have a fifteen year old suspect charged
Speaker 2: with first degree murder for the murder of seventy eight
Speaker 2: year old John w Allen.
Speaker 3: This is a guy who is at a bus stop.
Speaker 3: He is an elderly man.
Speaker 2: He's a Navy veteran, babe, and a retired bus driver.
Speaker 2: He drove a school bus for thirty five years.
Speaker 3: Navy veteran.
Speaker 1: That just pisses you off.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 1: Since the guy has been serving for his entire life,
Speaker 1: He's been doing hard work, difficult work, trying work. But bro,
Speaker 1: that's man. That sucks.
Speaker 2: I know we can all get caught up in this
Speaker 2: sallaciousness of this murder, But when I started reading about
Speaker 2: this man, I have chills from head to toe. His sister,
Speaker 2: and I love that his sister honored him and spoke
Speaker 2: about him and wanted people to know who her brother was.
Speaker 2: She said he was the best brother ever. That someone
Speaker 2: took away. I'm gonna miss him.
Speaker 3: She said. He was living in a senior living.
Speaker 2: Complex and he had just gone to the VA Hospital
Speaker 2: for a check up on Monday. Here he is taking
Speaker 2: care of his health, making sure he's all good. Goes
Speaker 2: to a CHP on Monday, and then was planning to
Speaker 2: visit his sister, who lives near the bus stop where
Speaker 2: he was attacked. So he was going to visit her,
Speaker 2: and yeah, she's pissed, she's angry, and she wants folks
Speaker 2: to remember her brother. Just hearing these types of details,
Speaker 2: she said he they called him baby boy because he
Speaker 2: was the youngest of six siblings.
Speaker 3: She said he was a.
Speaker 2: Loyal church goer, spent his life serving others. As you
Speaker 2: just pointed out, not just a navy veteran, but a
Speaker 2: bus driver, a church goer, and a veteran.
Speaker 3: That just sucks.
Speaker 1: Seventy eight year old is not supposed to die violently.
Speaker 1: It's certainly not in a random act of violence. That's
Speaker 1: some man in life is something. This is one of
Speaker 1: those times where you could just go why why is this?
Speaker 1: Why do things happen?
Speaker 3: Wrong? Plays?
Speaker 1: Wrong time, wrong guy, wrong night? I mean, some kid lurking.
Speaker 2: Thinking it's funny, thinking he's scared, people thinking he's powerful.
Speaker 1: Here, I really really need to hear what was going
Speaker 1: on with this kid too.
Speaker 2: And look, I think we will if the prosecutor follows
Speaker 2: through with what he wants to do. And I would
Speaker 2: imagine in this case, given to details, given who the
Speaker 2: victim was, given the randomness of this, and wanting to
Speaker 2: send a message to anyone who thinks it's cute or funny,
Speaker 2: who knows if it's gang related or if it's some
Speaker 2: sort of teen initiation where he's proven something to somebody,
Speaker 2: but they need to make this actually be something of
Speaker 2: a lesson to others, and so yes, if he's charged
Speaker 2: with first degree murder and charged as an adult, we
Speaker 2: will get his name, we will get his details, and look,
Speaker 2: the why is always elusive.
Speaker 3: Everyone always wants to understand.
Speaker 2: And maybe we'll understand it, maybe we won't, but let's
Speaker 2: hope for the family of John w Allen that they
Speaker 2: get some justice because this is a awful, horrific, scary
Speaker 2: as hell crime. But it seems like a beautiful man
Speaker 2: was lost in the process, and we just don't want
Speaker 2: anyone to forget that, because yes, the headlines will say
Speaker 2: clown killer, but there was a beautiful man who lost
Speaker 2: his life because of just some who knows fifteen year
Speaker 2: old's fascination with the abomination. But anyway, I wanted to
Speaker 2: get this on your radar. Will continue to follow this
Speaker 2: story for you out of Saint Louis, but we always
Speaker 2: appreciate you listening to us.
Speaker 3: Everyone. I made Robach alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk soon.