WEBVTT - TechList: The World of eSports 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:09.600 Hey there, it's Jonathan Strickland, and I'm here to introduce 0:00:09.760 --> 0:00:14.560 a playlist of ten episodes of my podcast tech Stuff 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:20.000 that are all about entertainment and entertainment related fields, from 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:25.720 video games to television series, two films to internet videos 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:30.440 from yesteryear. So I hope you guys enjoy these episodes. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.440 You can go to the tech Stuff podcast page and 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.000 subscribe to listen to all sorts of episodes about tech 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:42.240 from all realms, and hopefully this will provide a little 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.040 bit of entertainment, a little bit of education, and probably 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.000 more than a few puns, because that's kind of how 0:00:49.080 --> 0:01:06.240 I roll. Enjoy this playlist. Welcome to tex Stuff, a 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:13.800 production from my Heart Radio. Hey there, and welcome to 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:16.560 tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.960 producer with iHeart Radio and a love of all things tech, 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.800 and we are now going to view the history of 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.240 e sports in this classic episode. I hope you guys 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.880 enjoy it. E sports is something that has definitely gained 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.440 a lot of popularity and a small amount of respect 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:38.560 among uh outer circles. I think we're still got a 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.560 long way to go before people accept e sports as 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.840 being as valid as any other sport, but certainly the 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:49.160 fans treat it like, you know, like it's it's it's 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.960 a big, big deal. So let's take a listen. Today 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.440 we're gonna talk specifically about the realm of professional gaming 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.000 and professional gaming leagues, as well as how I tracking 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:06.280 technology is integrated into that world these days. So think 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:11.520 of this as the conclusion of that that loosely serialized 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:15.560 series of episodes. And then after this one, our next 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.280 episode will probably be about something completely unrelated. So if 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:24.600 you are uh satisfied, satiated, let us say, with video 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.000 game content, fear not, we will cover something different in 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:31.200 our next episode. If you love video game content, fear not. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.760 Eventually I'll get back to it. It'll happen because it 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.640 plays a big role in tech. Now let's talk about 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.679 e sports. I've covered related topics, including some way back 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.640 in the old days of tech stuff, when Chris Palette 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:45.799 and I used to shout our podcast from the top 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.119 of a building in Buckhead in Atlanta, and the only 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:49.600 way you could hear it was if you were in 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.600 the general neighborhood. There is a classic episode titled Can 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:57.399 You Make a Living Playing Games? And that original episode 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:02.880 came out on July two thousand eleven. Holy cow, guys, 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.920 I've been doing this show a long time. The answer, 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.280 by the way, is yes, you can make money playing 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.800 video games if you're good enough. We're gonna talk a 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:17.560 bit today about the industry around competitive professional video game players, 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.840 better known as e sports. I'll have a chance to 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.160 chat with Robert o'caleny, VP of E sports products over 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:27.120 at Turner Sports, and later on I'll also chat with 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.520 Brian Desaias and David Chen of alien Ware to talk 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.600 about the use of eye tracking tech and E sports 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.440 and how it can enhance the experience. We've got a 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.760 lot of wonderful folks who gave over their time and 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:43.440 their expertise to help make this episode happen. So big. 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:45.760 Thanks to all of them, and I can't wait for 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:47.160 you guys to hear what they have to say, because 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.880 they're really fascinating people. But before we dive into that, 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.480 it's always fun, at least for me anyway, to talk 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.240 about the history of whatever the subject is at hand. 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:01.000 So how old do you think E sports to be. 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.200 Do you think it rose up in the nineties, like 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.360 maybe the late nineties over in South Korea, or maybe 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.480 you would go back to like the nineteen eighties, when 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.120 people like Billy Mitchell established world up record high scores 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:17.120 and arcade games like pac Man. Well, depending upon your 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.240 definition of e sports, the real birth of the industry 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:25.840 dates back to nineteen seventy two. That's when students at 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:30.560 Stanford University pitted their lead gaming skills and a tournament 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.320 of Space War. Now Steve Russell had led a small 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.159 group of designers way back in nineteen sixty two to 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.600 create Space War, which was one of the first examples 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.960 of a computer game to use a dynamic display. Now, 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.920 ever since we've had computers, people have been trying to 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.360 figure out ways to make those computers do stuff that 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.120 they weren't intended to do, like play games. The original 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.760 computers weren't meant to do that. But you get enough 0:04:54.800 --> 0:05:00.000 people who are mathematically gifted together and they start thinking 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.320 about the potential for math to do practically anything. Eventually 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.479 they're gonna start creating programs that play games, including things 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.800 like Tic Tac Toe. But it wasn't until the nineteen 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.680 sixties that people were looking at the potential of creating 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.479 displays for computers. Otherwise you were getting readouts that were 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.400 either on paper or sometimes just a bank of lights 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.440 would light up a specific way, and that's how you 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.920 knew what the output was of whatever your input was. 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.400 So Space War was one of these early, early, early 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.960 examples of a game that uses such a dynamic display. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.719 Players would control one of two spaceships. There was one 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.720 called the needle and one called the wedge, and they 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.400 were called that because obviously of their their shapes, and 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.480 these spaceships could fly around in a two dimensional plane, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:53.320 so you can fly along that x, y axis, but 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.600 not the z There was no third dimension to this, 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.800 and it looked like a little space field and you 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:01.440 were technically you are flying around the gravity well of 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.680 a star so there was this gravitational effect that came 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.680 into play with the game, and your whole goal was 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.200 to destroy the other starship. So it was a player 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.560 versus player game that came out in nineteen sixty two, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.520 and by came out, I mean it was developed for 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.600 a what at that time amounted to a supercomputer, and 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.000 if you also happen to have a supercomputer and you 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:26.719 could get a copy of the code, you could install 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:30.440 and play that game yourself, not even installed, run the game, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.320 it's not really even installation because we're not talking about 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.960 a hard disk at this point. By nineteen seventy two, 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:40.920 several engineering and computer science schools had a version of 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.960 this game, and then the tournament was born. The grand 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:47.839 prize for this tournament back in nineteen seventy two was 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:52.679 a whole year's subscription to Rolling Stone magazine. The tournament 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.680 itself took place in the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Lab, so 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:59.240 one of the most important events to ever take place 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.520 in that ail in the history of mankind as far 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.599 as I'm concerned. Stewart Brand, who at the time was 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.039 a writer and editor for Rolling Stone, was the organizer 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.360 for this event. His peace and Rolling Stone equated the 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:14.880 players with athletes in traditional sports, so from the very 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:18.360 beginning there were parallels. Though at the time the treatment 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.800 might have been a touch tongue in cheek, maybe a 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:26.360 little playful satirical, but the version that the students were 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:30.400 playing of Space War was slightly altered from the one 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.800 that debuted back in nineteen sixty two. There was a 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.480 programmer named Ralph Goren who added in a couple of 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:41.200 elements to the game to make it more competitive and interesting. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.880 He added in the capacity for ships to suffer partial 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.760 damage before being destroyed, so you can take more than 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.720 one hit. And he also threw in some space minds, 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.040 so some obstacles that you could deploy within the game 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.360 field and maybe your opponent would fly into them and 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.240 destroy himself, and that would just make the game more 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.160 interesting to play and watch. By the way, Ralph Gordon 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.240 would later go on to create the world's first spell checker. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.640 So when you hear about some of these people who 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.960 were involved in this tournament, a lot of them went 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.480 on to do some very important things in the realm 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:16.320 of technology and computer science. Now, the winner of that 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.320 first tournament was a guy named Bruce baum Guard, and 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.440 baum Guard would go on to work at the Internet Archive, 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.120 and later on he would become the head of operations 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.720 at Cool c U I L. And you may owe 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.720 my drugs not remember what Cool is? Things changing so 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.640 scory nowadays and people quick to forget it. Cool was 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.000 one of those companies that when it launched, got a 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.560 lot of people poking fun at it for its name, 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.680 that c U I L being spelled cool. It was 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:50.319 a short lived search engine. It did not last very long. 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.280 It had really long entries, so when you did a search, 0:08:54.679 --> 0:09:00.440 you would get the results with very long descriptors of 0:09:00.480 --> 0:09:03.520 what those search results were, plus a thumbnail that would 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.560 appear next to every search result. But it just didn't 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:11.080 catch on. It ended up shutting down in September. But 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.720 while cool would come and go, video game tournaments were 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.800 really here to stay, and whether they were informal or 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:21.800 they were big twodus, they continued largely beneath the notice 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.079 of the general public. The introduction of the personal computer 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.920 and various gaming systems in the nineteen eighties helped a 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.480 little bits, as as did the rise of the arcade, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.080 but by and large video game competitions remain confined to 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:38.480 a niche audience. In the late ninet nineties, gaming had 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.600 reached a new level, largely because personal computers were much 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.280 more common, and this would be the early days of 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.599 the high powered graphics processing units or GPUs, those dedicated 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.120 graphics cards, which were the devices that were actually giving 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.920 computers the horsepower needed to run games that had three 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:59.840 dimensional graphics, so stuff like Quake, and in fact, one 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.760 of the earliest tournaments of this time was a Quake competition. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.600 It was held in nineteen and the organization holding It 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:12.360 was read Annihilation. It drew two thousand participants, and the 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.840 prize was a doozy. If you won, you got to 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.440 go home with a Ferrari that once belonged to John Carmack. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.280 He was one of the lead developers of Quake. On 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:31.040 June seven, Angel Manuals founded the cyber Athlete Professional League 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:33.960 or the CPL. This was a group that organized various 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.679 tournaments and pioneered the field of e sports professional tournaments. 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:42.080 It operated out of the United States until two thousand eight, 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.280 when the company nearly dissolved due to an overcrowded scene, 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.920 got acquired and then sort of relaunched in China. But 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:52.520 in just a decade we saw that the environment had 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.080 changed from a curiosity into a pretty big industry. This 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.040 cyber Athlete Professional League went from being the only game 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:05.560 in town pun intended to being a a fish in 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:12.040 a very large pond that was growing completely beyond what 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:16.480 it originally was. Now. Early on, the emphasis in these 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:21.440 tournaments was on first person shooter games games like Quake. 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.480 Then sports titles also became popular in tournament play. Then 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:29.000 you might get things like fighting games. They've popped up 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.520 a little bit later and then real time strategy genre 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.319 games joined the ranks, and that's when the game StarCraft 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.640 brood War rose to prominence in the tournament scene. While 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.240 tournaments were still largely a niche interest in the United 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.079 States and other parts of the world, they had become 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.439 incredibly popular, and one of those regions was South Korea. 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:52.040 South Korea has two big game channels, on game Net 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.760 and NBC Game, both of which created leagues of professional 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.240 StarCraft players who would compete against each other for prizes. 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.360 The kind tree takes professional gaming extremely seriously. In fact, 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.840 when a scandal broke out in that some StarCraft players 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.280 were purposefully throwing games as part of a gambling scheme, 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.480 the government levied harsh punishments against the accused players, all 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:18.440 of whom were banned for life from professional StarCraft competition. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.600 In two thousand, the World Cyber Games and Electronics Sports 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.599 World Cup both launched, and they gave professional gaming a 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.840 bigger spotlight. Two years later, the Major League Gaming Professional 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.199 Game League launched, and since then professional video game leagues 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.319 have been picking up speed. We've also seen other types 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.400 of games into this realm, including MOBA's things like Dota 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:43.800 Too and Smite, and League of Legends. Those have become 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:49.520 enormously popular in the professional gaming league scene. In recent years, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.640 we've also seen a big push coming from major broadcasters 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.679 to elevate professional video game tournaments. I had a chance 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.679 to speak with Robert Ocellini, who overseas e League at 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.520 Turner to talk about it now. Robert, thank you so 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.280 much for joining us on text stuff. I want to 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.000 kind of get an idea about how eligue came about 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.280 and uh, and and sort of get an idea of 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.719 how it's evolved and and what you have seen so 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.040 far in that space. Because while the sports I think, uh, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.839 it's something that more and more people are are aware of, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.319 it's still sort of an emerging kind of form of 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:32.160 entertainment for a large part of the mainstream audience. I 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:36.360 think that's changing, especially among younger demographics. I think they're 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.280 far more aware, especially now that we're seeing video games 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.679 being used as a form just the playing of video 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.640 games being used as a form of entertainment throughout lots 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:51.640 of different platforms. But tell me specifically about eligue, sure, so, Uh. 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:57.000 Eleague was first announced about two years ago. Um, it 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.640 actually wasn't called elague at the time. We didn't have 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.319 a name it UM, but we were working on it, 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.120 I would say for probably six months or so before 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:12.720 that September two thousand fifteen announcement UM. And really it 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:16.080 came from the sort of interest came from the very 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:21.760 senior levels of Turner. So Kevin Reiley, who is the 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.600 head of TBS and tn T, came to the company 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.360 with a lot of contacts and gaming UM and you 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.800 know he's in l A and E sports has really 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.720 taken off in Los Angeles, and so he came in 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:40.120 with a lot of interest in the sports. And then 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.800 from the Turner Sports side, you know, Lenny Daniels and 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.840 David Levy UM had had a lot of interest in 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:52.640 the space. They saw, you know, they kept hearing that 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:56.680 this space was developing. They kind of saw what was happening. 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.760 And actually at first UM at of time, I was 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.480 working on the NBA's digital products here. I did seven 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:08.520 seasons working on the NBA mobile apps and over the 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.320 top apps and NBA League pass UM and for a 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.800 little while as a part time job, I was actually 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:20.040 going to meetings and working on this, and you know, 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.600 sort of my background is more in digital product, but 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.240 I'm a lifelong gamer and very interested in competitive gaming 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.880 and was actually the GM of competitive World of Warcraft guild. 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.560 Um So I kind of had my own long history 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:42.320 with with gaming and e sports on the fan side 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.120 and on the playing side. UM so I kind of 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:48.640 was able to bring that to the table. UM as 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.280 we looked into this, and then I think probably around 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:58.360 uh beginning of July July, we sort of decided what 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.560 direction we're going to go in, and at that time 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.440 they decided that if I wanted to work on this 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.520 full time, they give me that opportunity. And I really 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.000 haven't looked back, um, nor have nor has the company. 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.240 Um uh. So, you know, we we did this deal 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.800 with i MG Iligue as a joint venture with w 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:24.440 M E i MG, and we started meeting with teams. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:29.240 We actually had a big team summit in September because 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.000 we were really the first big media brand to enter 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.480 into this e sports space and we wanted to make 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:41.720 sure that we were entering it with reverence, um with 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.880 you know, an eye towards authenticity. And then of course, 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.960 you know, we'd already decided at that point that we're 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.920 going to work with counter Strike um that we were 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:58.280 talking to and getting feedback from the counter Strike community. UM. 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.800 About two months later we came up with a name 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.679 and logo and all of that stuff and launched our website. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.480 And then in January of two thousand sixteen, we did 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.040 our very first tournament UM the Road to Vegas, and 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:17.280 that was essentially sort of an open qualifier for one 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:23.640 of the scots in our inaugural season. Later in UM, 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.000 we really started the league and league play in earnest 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:32.000 in May of sixteen UM with our first counter Strike season. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.760 We followed that up later in sixteen we had the 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.600 opportunity to do the Overwatch Open. We were like the 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:45.320 first big Overwatch tournament UM, and then we did a 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:49.080 second season of counter Strike. Around that time frame, we 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.840 were also awarded the first counter Strike Major of SEEN 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.080 UM and we did that in January. And then in 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.080 in SEEN we've we've branched out a little bit and 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.000 have done some stuff with street Fighter. We did a 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:10.879 series a docuseries around UH the International, which is the 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:15.200 big DODA World Championship. And then finally right now we're 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:18.920 running are what is essentially our third Counterstrike season of 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:23.320 the Premier UM and you know that's where Group D 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:27.320 starts tonight, uh, and then the finals the week of 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.560 October ten. So you know, it's been, uh, it's been 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.879 kind of a wild ride. We went from from you 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:41.040 know nothing and no organization to a thriving business with 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.680 a lot of employees and uh, you know, have done 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.200 a lot of tournaments at this point. Um, I think 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.480 you know, the only other thing I'll add that I 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.440 shouldn't have bloss over is the amazing studio that we 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:59.720 built downstairs that's built for sports, whether that game is 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.359 one v one or six P six. We have built 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.960 the studio in a way that, um, it can it 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:09.440 can easily support any game that we want to do. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.280 And then of course we've got all of the you 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.760 know other stuff you would want, practice space for the players, 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:22.080 a player lounge, first class green room for our talent um, 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.560 and then all the tech that you would need to 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:28.960 to support doing something like a counter strike tournament, which 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:33.399 is a pretty big undertaking right where every tiny little 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:38.439 technical detail can end up uh having an influence on 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:43.040 actual gameplay. It is really important as well pointing out 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.199 to my listeners here that by going this route, by 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:48.880 having the tournament where you've got the system set up 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:51.640 where you know, you're going to have a really good 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.720 approach to running these games. It also means everyone's on 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:59.280 equal footing. It doesn't mean that, you know, you're not 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.679 worried about one who's souped up their game engine so 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.000 or their game system so much that they're going to 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.360 have an unfair advantage over anyone else. It really does 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.880 bring it down to skill and in the case of 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:16.640 games like Counterstrike, really good team communication and team uh cooperation. 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.560 I'm really fascinated by this, And since you've had experience 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:26.639 working in a realm that was UH that was focused 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.880 on traditional sports, something that I think a lot of 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:33.240 people can can kind of get their mind around for 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:38.680 For people who haven't made that that step from the 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.919 idea of well, a professional sport where you're playing physically 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.760 in a on a cord or on a field or 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.119 whatever it may be. That's one thing. But professional video 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:52.240 game playing, how is that something that you How can 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.480 you consider that person an athlete? Well, you've seen both worlds. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.640 What's your kind of response to that sort of uh, 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:01.879 like think we wants asking questions or if they're just 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.560 expressing skepticism that someone could be an athlete playing video 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:07.720 games by the way, I'm totally on the board of 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.480 professional video games players are on a level that is far, far, 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:17.119 far beyond the capabilities of the average person. Sure, I mean, listen, 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:22.120 I think that that skepticism is a natural a natural thing, right, 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.720 Like I think with with physical sports, it's very easy 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.280 to tell that I cannot jump as high off the 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:35.960 ground as Lebron James, right. Um, But me sitting in 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.960 front of a computer, it doesn't look optically any different 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:43.760 than ol of Meister or Faker or any of these 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:48.040 sort of top tier esports players. But I will tell 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:54.720 you that, Um, from a talent perspective, from a commitment perspective, 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:59.560 these gentlemen are no and women are no different than 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:04.800 professional athletes and traditional stick and ball sports. They are 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:10.600 a cut above and you know, you if you were 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:14.159 to put an average or even above average sort of 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:19.320 casual video game athlete up against these guys, they would 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:22.720 just get completely and utterly wrecked. You know. I think 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:25.120 that one of the interesting things that we've done here 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.080 at Turner this year is we had an employee tournament 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:33.040 for street Fighters. So we did we did this uh 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:37.120 six week street Fighter season where we had the best 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.640 street fighter players in the world come to our campus 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:43.760 and play, and then UM, a couple of weeks after 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:48.639 that tournament was over, we had an internal tournament that 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.440 culminated with the finals that was played in the very 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:56.600 same studio where our street Fighter tournament was hosted. UM. 0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.720 And you know, shirt Off Turners a pretty big company. 0:22:59.760 --> 0:23:05.640 They're some really good street Fighter players here. But talking 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:10.160 to the sort of experts that we have on staff, 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.920 the guy who won the tournament would be like the 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:19.480 tenth best player at a local Atlanta semi professional tournament. 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.120 And the guy who would win that tournament wouldn't even 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.800 be in the top hundred in the world. You know, 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:32.000 there's there's a there's a big difference between the two 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.600 d and fifty guys who play counterstrike sort of at 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:39.600 the top level professionally and the seven or eight million 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:44.000 people who play it on a daily basis. UM. So 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:46.359 you know, I'm in definitely you can tell I'm in 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.760 the camp of this is no different than the other sports. 0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:54.360 There's a scarcity of of talent and then the ability 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:58.000 to sort of focus that The commitment that it requires 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:03.480 to play these games at a top level UM is ridiculous. 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.680 I guess the last point i'd make on that is, Um, 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.199 it's also really hard to stay on top. And you 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:16.280 know there's one team currently that you know, last year 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:21.240 one i think five tournaments uh during the regular tournament season, 0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.840 and this year made it to the finals of the Major. 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:29.720 But we've seen them slowly declined. The name of the 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:32.240 team as Burtis Pro and we love them. They won 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:38.200 our first season, UM, but we've seen them slowly decline 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.120 and they actually didn't make it to the playoffs of 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:45.760 our current tournament. And I think that that shows like 0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:49.840 just how tight it is at the very top, right, 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.960 Like even just kind of in six months, a team 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:58.520 can go from being virtually unbeatable over a three or 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:01.760 four month time period to not even making it to 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:06.320 the late stages of any tournaments. There's that very top level. 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:10.440 Is it is the top of the pyramid in every way, 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:15.960 shape or form. Now in your experience of overseeing these 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:19.440 things being part of the the E League, UH, does 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:22.320 it feel like when there's a tournament going, when you 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.159 have these people at this these very elite levels of 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:29.480 performance competing against each other. Isn't a similar kind of 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:34.240 of atmosphere of excitement to watch people at that level 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:37.960 play similar to what you might see in a traditional 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:42.639 sporting arena. I think, you know, I think, for so 0:25:43.040 --> 0:25:46.480 there are differences there that I would call out right 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:52.400 so um for some tournaments and and I'm not alluding 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:56.240 to ours, almost all of the competition except for the finals, 0:25:56.359 --> 0:26:00.320 is played over the internet, right, and so you know 0:26:00.359 --> 0:26:05.320 the spectator experience there is on Twitch and on YouTube, 0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:10.120 and you know that the chat experience is like a 0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:14.040 proxy for the arena, if that makes sense, almost like 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:17.400 a virtual proxy, I would say, though, at the very 0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:20.399 top level, if you were to were to attend like 0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:24.200 our finals at the Fox Theater in Atlanta for the Major, 0:26:24.359 --> 0:26:27.280 or an e s L one in New York, or 0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:30.639 the finals of a dream Hack, they have all of 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:38.560 the same trappings and crowd engagement that you know a 0:26:38.560 --> 0:26:42.800 professional Atlanta sports team has. And you know, I go, 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:46.160 I'm a season ticket holder for our our new MLS team, 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:49.600 which probably has about as good fan engagement as you 0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:53.040 could possibly have, and it feels the same to me 0:26:53.280 --> 0:26:58.080 as the really Rabbit fans for the finals of our 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:01.560 Major or the finals the Dota to International. I went 0:27:01.600 --> 0:27:04.639 to that this summer too, at Key Arena, which is 0:27:04.680 --> 0:27:08.720 where the Sonics used to play in Seattle, so even 0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.919 the same buildings in some case, although I will also 0:27:11.960 --> 0:27:16.400 say those buildings can sometimes not be the best venues 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:19.040 for watching the sports because you're trying to watch on 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:22.720 the screen and watch kind of what's going on stage. 0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:25.000 But what's going on on stage a lot of the 0:27:25.040 --> 0:27:29.439 time is some guys in headsets yelling to each other, right, Like, 0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:33.160 the more interesting thing is the combination of what they're 0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.399 doing with what's happening on the screen. Right. Similar to 0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:40.560 what we've seen with various platforms where people are setting 0:27:40.600 --> 0:27:44.440 up webcams to capture their their footage of how they 0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:47.600 react while they're playing games, I imagine something similar is 0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:51.040 useful in this kind of realm. When we come back, 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:53.959 we'll talk more about the advances and technology that are 0:27:54.000 --> 0:27:56.600 making it easier and more enjoyable to watch gaming as 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.800 a professional sport. But first let's take a quick break 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:09.879 to thank our sponsor. In a previous episode, I spoke 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:13.240 with Oscar Warner over at Toby Tech about eye tracking technology, 0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:14.720 and we talked a bit about how it could be 0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:17.439 used in professional gaming, but to get a more thorough 0:28:17.480 --> 0:28:20.120 perspective on it, I had a conversation with Brian Dazais 0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:24.119 and David Chen of alien Ware about how it's transforming 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:27.800 e sports. Yeah. So, um, one of the things that 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:29.959 aileen Ware is always doing right, We're always trying to 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:34.560 look for the next innovative thing. What's going to help gamers, 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:37.679 whether they're professional or just you know, folks that just 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:40.200 want to have fun playing games. How can they have 0:28:40.320 --> 0:28:42.440 more fun and how can they get better at their games? 0:28:43.120 --> 0:28:44.800 In I just make it as in most of it 0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:48.240 as possible. UM. So you know, as as we launch 0:28:48.320 --> 0:28:52.280 and look at new technologies, UM, one of the things 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.200 that was coming down the pike several years ago, UM 0:28:55.280 --> 0:28:59.240 is eye tracking. Now, historically you've thought of eye tracking 0:28:59.520 --> 0:29:03.080 or you know, eye tracking mainly for some cool stuff 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:06.680 like trying to maybe log into a computer or something 0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:10.160 like that, kind of like facial recognition. UM. But as 0:29:10.200 --> 0:29:13.720 the technologies evolved, as it's gotten smaller, been able to 0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:18.480 put into laptops and things like that. UM. It really 0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:23.160 there's a lot of innovative ways to the things we 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:26.200 could do. As you're just tracing with the ice looking 0:29:27.280 --> 0:29:30.640 and so what we started working with Toby on is 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:33.760 how can we adopt that and tie that into something 0:29:33.840 --> 0:29:38.080 meaningful for gamers. And at the same time, you know, 0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:43.480 we've we've seen and known that gamers are always looking 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.200 for an advantage. So I'll give you an example. You know, 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:49.560 and most most gamers will at some point, if they're 0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:51.640 really into a game, right, they're gonna go to YouTube 0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:54.880 or they're gonna go onto Twitch, and they're gonna try 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:56.640 and get better at their game. They're gonna look at 0:29:56.640 --> 0:30:00.600 tips and tricks. And you know, I'm maybe doing it today. Um, 0:30:00.640 --> 0:30:04.520 I'm heavily invested in pub g and um it seems 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:06.800 like every other day, every day, I'm trying to see, 0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:08.640 you know, we're going to get some tips and tricks 0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:11.720 and get better at it because I'm not very good, Jonathan, 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:15.680 But you know I dive in there anyway. I completely completely, 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.720 but it's too much fun to avoid. So but but 0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:25.600 kind of that that nature and just wanting to get better, UM, 0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:29.400 and I tracking prove as we're thinking about how leverage 0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:35.520 this provided a real, a real way to track how 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:38.840 the best players in the world as a specific game 0:30:39.400 --> 0:30:42.360 or any game that they're playing. Where are they looking? 0:30:42.480 --> 0:30:45.280 You know, gaming is so much about where you're looking, 0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:49.320 where you're paying attention where your focus is. And I 0:30:49.560 --> 0:30:54.240 tracking really enabled really the world and we'll talk some 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:58.320 definitely about this, but enabled gamers to see where the 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:00.840 best players in the world are looking at any point 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:03.680 in time. So are they looking at the mini map, 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:08.200 are they looking down the corridor, They're looking down the hallway? Um, 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.080 right before you know, they fragged somebody or they get 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:13.640 tragged or whatever it might be happening in the match. 0:31:14.480 --> 0:31:18.680 So we saw this real opportunity, this real thing that 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:22.960 gamers are looking to do, and that's get better and 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:27.960 this technology that really allows a new level of data 0:31:28.000 --> 0:31:31.360 capture and you turn that into some analytics and you 0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:36.640 can actually put out, um, some pretty interesting information. So 0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:39.680 that's kind of at the very beginning conceptually, when we're 0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.520 just you know, sitting around with you know, our internal 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:46.240 product group teams, are internal marketing teams talking to e 0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:50.920 sports organizations, um, and you know, our third party partners 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:54.120 like Toby talking about whether the priorities that we have 0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:57.000 coming up. You know, this isn't just a something we 0:31:57.120 --> 0:32:00.240 spoke about six months ago. This is year in the 0:32:00.320 --> 0:32:03.760 making of understanding what gamers are looking for and working 0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:07.040 with these technology partners. So that's kind of out it 0:32:07.080 --> 0:32:11.480 all started and UM and and and David if you 0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:14.000 have UM you obviously played an Intel part for us 0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:19.240 here and getting this technology rolled out with UH, with 0:32:19.560 --> 0:32:22.000 with Turner and the league. So, UM, there's anything you 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:26.240 want to add on on where this started? Police feel free? Yeah, 0:32:26.320 --> 0:32:28.320 I would you say, And it's your point earlier A 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:32.040 lot of this technology and research into this technology as 0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:34.560 part of gaming even beyond gaming has been around for 0:32:34.600 --> 0:32:36.880 a couple of years now, and it hasn't really been 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:40.440 until now, until the technology has become uh, you know, 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:43.160 smaller and more nimble, that it's you know, hitting this 0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:45.880 more consumer level focus. But I'm sure in the past 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.400 they've been using eye tracking to look at how people 0:32:48.440 --> 0:32:50.800 respond to add online, you know, when they do keep 0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:53.880 mapping on websites and where people respond UM. And it 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:55.760 wasn't until I think a couple of years ago, probably 0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:57.600 two or two years ago, that one of our partners, 0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:01.640 t liquid UM they had done some research of their 0:33:01.640 --> 0:33:05.920 own with I believe it was the Mayo Research Clinic 0:33:06.000 --> 0:33:08.600 over in California, UM and they had work with a 0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:13.080 UH I believe the professor there who was researching kind 0:33:13.080 --> 0:33:15.600 of eye tracking as part of video gaming. The level 0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:18.960 of cognition and just the uh, you know, research level 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:23.400 analytics between some of the oldest veteran players versus you know, 0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:25.920 young hot starts who are coming out, you know, sixteen 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:28.880 seventeen and dominating the scene. UM. And the research that 0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:31.000 he saw and some of these teams are really startling 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.320 as far as you know, veterans being able to still 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.880 keep the edge ahead through their experience and just how 0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:38.840 quick their eyes are and being able to you know, 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:43.000 cycle between icons from you know, a hundred different characters 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:44.920 and they have a lot more in their memory banks 0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:46.680 to pull from and react from than a lot of 0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:50.239 younger players. UM. And again at that time, you know 0:33:50.280 --> 0:33:52.280 that research is probably being done on a ten to 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:55.120 twelve thousand dollar piece of equipment that was tracking your 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:57.880 eyes and it was cumbersome, and now we're seeing it 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.120 to the point where again it's able to be up 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:02.920 into a laptop and it's something that you know, pretty 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:05.719 much a lot of consumers and teams UM have at 0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:08.879 their immediate disposal. UM. And what I'm bringing the back 0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:12.319 home between liquid you know, as more and more teams 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:16.320 are growing in the space, and as more and more 0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:19.879 traditional sports teams are also getting involved in the sports, 0:34:20.000 --> 0:34:24.840 there's this growing desire to understand again the dynamics of 0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:28.480 the athleticism or the cognition and skill of the traditional 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:31.680 athlete versus an e sports athletes. And I think we're 0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:34.840 barely scratching the surface of what that means today. UM 0:34:34.960 --> 0:34:37.840 And as more and more other technology catches up, I 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:42.280 think we all dream of finding other big in cycul 0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:46.359 ways that the sports can provide a level of biometric data, 0:34:46.840 --> 0:34:49.920 um to allow us to appreciate, you know, what's the 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:52.880 best you well uh and also how you know, average 0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:57.160 Joe's like you and I can strive to uh chase 0:34:57.280 --> 0:35:00.640 after some of that greatness in certain categories. It's definitely 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:05.719 very very exciting. That's so cool and and and you know, I, 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:10.600 I too am chasing after that elusive chicken dinner over 0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:15.600 at pub g and it it remains just outside my grasp. 0:35:16.280 --> 0:35:19.719 So being able to see how not just not just 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:22.520 how well someone plays, but how they go about playing 0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:26.799 that way, there is something really enticing about that, the 0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:31.080 not just you know, when we watch professional sports, typically 0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:36.080 we can see great, great displays of athleticism, but you know, 0:35:36.120 --> 0:35:39.600 people are not machines. We can break things down and 0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.120 use slow motion and various camera angles to kind of 0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:47.359 analyze the basics. But to me, the fact that we're 0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:50.360 talking about a digital realm and then being able to 0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:53.560 track our physical motions and map that to the actions 0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:55.800 of a digital realm, it does seem like this is 0:35:56.280 --> 0:36:01.399 uh much more conducive to breaking things down into quantifiable 0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:04.600 aspects to really talk about, Well, you know, this person 0:36:05.120 --> 0:36:10.160 is checking their mini map more frequently than someone who 0:36:10.280 --> 0:36:13.480 is not a professional gamer. That's a really interesting stat 0:36:13.520 --> 0:36:17.640 and could really inform people how to play the game 0:36:17.680 --> 0:36:19.960 at a slightly higher level than what they were doing before. 0:36:20.040 --> 0:36:24.520 Knowing of course that it's not a magic substitute for 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:29.759 the hours of practice, as you know, countless hours of 0:36:29.800 --> 0:36:32.719 practice for some of these professional gamers who will sit 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.280 down for eight or ten hours and play a game 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:38.520 and that's largely how they got as good as they are, 0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:42.040 but then also a tool for them to look at afterward. 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:44.919 Maybe they've played in a tournament, maybe they played really 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:47.040 well and they want to see what what they were 0:36:47.080 --> 0:36:51.000 doing and remember to really hone in on those particular 0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:54.239 types of of of strategies and future tournaments, or they 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.040 didn't do so well and maybe they want to see 0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:59.880 what the differences between their performance and someone else's. I 0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:03.120 also like the idea of this from if we're looking 0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:05.239 beyond the sports, which we'll get back to in a second. 0:37:05.280 --> 0:37:07.759 I don't want to leave that behind, but I like 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:11.440 this idea also from a game designer standpoint, the idea 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:15.520 of getting more information about what your players see as 0:37:15.600 --> 0:37:19.120 important in your game means that game designers can actually 0:37:19.239 --> 0:37:22.520 use that information to make more effective games down the 0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:27.000 line um and beyond that. If you if you think 0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:31.320 about this technology reaching a point where it becomes more 0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:36.160 of a kind of a a standard piece of tech 0:37:36.840 --> 0:37:40.920 that gets rolled out into laptops in the future or 0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:44.040 computers in general in the future, you could see this 0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:48.160 being incorporated into games themselves, where it's not just analysis, 0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:51.080 but it becomes an element of gameplay. Like I think 0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:56.160 of a game, perhaps like l A Noir, where part 0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:59.840 of that game involves the player watching a virtual characters 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:03.719 action as you're interrogating the character, and that in turn 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:05.960 informs you as to whether or not that character is 0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:08.160 telling the truth they're telling a lie. Will imagine eye 0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:11.640 tracking technology where the character appears to be aware of 0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:14.759 where you are looking, and then that adds a whole 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:18.200 new game element. So to me, the eye tracking technology 0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:20.399 in the gaming world, I mean, as you say, we're 0:38:20.440 --> 0:38:22.680 at the very beginning of it. Even if you just 0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:26.480 and I don't mean to to to uh make this 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.120 sound less than what it is, but even if you 0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:32.600 are restricting that attention to eat sports, there are so 0:38:32.640 --> 0:38:37.160 many incredible potential applications for this technology. And it's really 0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:41.320 exciting to be in these fairly early days talking about 0:38:41.360 --> 0:38:45.840 where we're going right now. Um so getting back to 0:38:45.920 --> 0:38:48.400 eat sports and getting back into that realm. Can you 0:38:48.440 --> 0:38:52.440 talk a little bit about the relationships that have formed 0:38:52.880 --> 0:38:56.680 now that uh, you guys are really kind of uh 0:38:56.960 --> 0:39:00.759 getting more involved with incorporating eye tracking tech analogy and 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:05.440 the pro gaming realm. I want to hear more about this, uh, 0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:12.280 this this relationship and how that has developed over time. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:39:12.280 --> 0:39:15.680 you make some some great points, Jonathan. I think you know, 0:39:15.719 --> 0:39:18.799 as we as we think about where we are, we 0:39:18.880 --> 0:39:23.360 are very much um just that at the beginning point 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:28.720 of showcasing this kind of technology and I attracting technology 0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:33.520 um to the world, right And I'll definitely jump into 0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:36.520 the partners and talk about the partners and what we've 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:40.360 done um, but you you have made some really interesting 0:39:40.360 --> 0:39:44.040 comments about where is you know, who can get the 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:48.360 most benefit out of UH technologies like this, like eye 0:39:48.360 --> 0:39:51.200 tracking and and that kind of thing. And there's obviously 0:39:51.239 --> 0:39:57.320 some very clear benefits for professional players and for amateurs 0:39:57.360 --> 0:39:59.719 that are trying to become professional, right, just this no 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.000 of getting better learning from the pros that are out there, 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:07.080 just like traditional sports. But one of the other parts 0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:10.760 that really intrigued us here as we're trying to trying 0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:14.920 to roll out this kind of technology is for the 0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:17.480 for just the viewer, um, for the fan. One of 0:40:17.480 --> 0:40:21.399 the things that has not kind of cut up with 0:40:21.520 --> 0:40:25.759 traditional sports is the viewing experience and the commentating. A 0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:28.560 lot of the commentating in the past for the sports 0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:32.279 has been around, you know, the commentator explaining what's going on, 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:37.319 but verbally there really wasn't a visual visual cues or 0:40:37.400 --> 0:40:41.120 visual explanations of what's happening in the match. You know. 0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:48.520 Obviously with NFL or NBA there's a lot of analytic 0:40:48.560 --> 0:40:50.960 things and things that happened through the broadcast, I think 0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:54.120 of teleprompters and and things like that. Well, it really 0:40:54.200 --> 0:40:57.120 wasn't that for e sports. And so as we were 0:40:57.200 --> 0:40:59.960 introducing the technology and figuring out how can we bring 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:02.640 this and how what should we be doing, and we 0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:06.360 really wanted to make that viewing experience better for you know, 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:09.880 the hundreds of millions of gaming fans that are watching 0:41:09.880 --> 0:41:13.880 these sports globally. And then we have to decide, you know, okay, 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:17.319 how who can who shares our values, who can who 0:41:17.400 --> 0:41:21.319 will work with us to to bring this technology to 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:25.400 the forefront. And you know, earlier this year in January, 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:28.960 UM we announced the partnership and we've been working very 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:33.719 closely with UM, with Turner and with Elige around all 0:41:33.760 --> 0:41:37.520 the all the tournaments that they're running. And UM actually 0:41:37.600 --> 0:41:41.759 just here in September for the first time UM partnership 0:41:41.880 --> 0:41:46.600 between US, Toby and an Eleague. UM we rolled out 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:51.960 the the getting Technical segment on the Eligue broadcast and 0:41:52.040 --> 0:41:55.239 really being able to to showcase the fans and to 0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:59.719 the viewers this ideas technology that's being captured to the 0:42:00.239 --> 0:42:05.560 tracking software at Tracking Software. So UM from a partnership side, 0:42:06.320 --> 0:42:10.200 it has been it was it was very important to 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:14.440 us to select partners and work with partners that shared 0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:19.120 quite honestly our vision of making this better for for 0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:21.840 the viewer because we know professionals are going to continue 0:42:21.880 --> 0:42:25.200 to innovate and get better where at the forefront working 0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:30.000 with them on separate uh, separate programs. Amateurs are always 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.600 going to look to get better because they want they 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:36.320 they want so badly to become a professional. But there's 0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:39.880 a ton of people I just enjoy the sports because 0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:42.000 of what it is, and how can we make it 0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:45.560 better for them? So, um, David all hands over to 0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:47.960 you because you again, I would love for you to 0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:50.960 chime in and talk to uh just a relationship we 0:42:51.040 --> 0:42:53.560 have with Turner and E League and how all that 0:42:53.600 --> 0:42:58.920 came together. Yes, absolutely, and I feel like get bowed 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:02.239 back down to a point of trying to be a 0:43:02.280 --> 0:43:05.200 good steward as far as a leader in the industry 0:43:05.200 --> 0:43:07.560 on behalf of the sports and really just making it 0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:11.640 a bit easier for viewers overall to get more out 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:14.360 of the viewing experience, whether their season veterans who have 0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:17.600 been watching the games for a long time, or something 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.360 maybe new to the game as well. We've seen the 0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:22.560 studies who knew you that say a lot of sports 0:43:22.600 --> 0:43:24.799 viewers don't even play the games that they watch. So 0:43:25.400 --> 0:43:28.160 if we're trying to help the sports grow in the 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.480 Western world. That's likely going to be introducing the sports 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:34.000 to people who are very new to the game, maybe 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:37.040 your family, maybe your friends who put that um So, 0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:39.759 when it came to working with Eligue, I think it 0:43:39.960 --> 0:43:43.520 was no brainer for us to start off with counter Strikes. 0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:46.760 When you look at the landscape of the sports titles 0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:49.080 out there, you can look at your League of Legends, 0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:51.520 your Dodas and your mobios out there, it does have 0:43:51.760 --> 0:43:54.200 a rather high learning curve for people who may not 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:57.160 be yet familiar with the title. UM So, definitely we 0:43:57.200 --> 0:43:59.520 look at a game like counter Strike, there's really nothing 0:43:59.560 --> 0:44:02.279 to us understand about, you know, don't be on the 0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:05.439 wrong point and end of the gun. Um and so 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:08.120 I think being able to find a game that immediately 0:44:08.600 --> 0:44:11.800 resonates it and can be digested by a larger audience 0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:15.720 helps us. Uh. Not only again brings to a wider audience, 0:44:15.760 --> 0:44:18.560 but then when you factor in the first person perspective 0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:22.240 and what eye tracking can really bring in from a 0:44:22.360 --> 0:44:26.040 synergy perspective there, it really made a lot of sense 0:44:26.040 --> 0:44:30.799 to find the white partner like easy to have a 0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:33.920 right tournament, where again counter Strikes with their bread and 0:44:33.920 --> 0:44:36.560 butter for the better part of two years now. Um. 0:44:36.600 --> 0:44:40.439 They housted the Major in January to overwhelming success. UM, 0:44:40.560 --> 0:44:43.719 and they're willing to continue to try and see how 0:44:43.760 --> 0:44:45.759 they can push the limits of counter Strike even further 0:44:45.760 --> 0:44:48.319 and further as you look towards the future. But it 0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:51.360 really boils down to what ways can we have this 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:56.120 experience be more digestible to a huge gaming audience out there. 0:44:56.400 --> 0:44:59.239 So for eye tracking and counter strike, where was the 0:44:59.280 --> 0:45:02.399 player looking, what were the context of you know, how 0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:05.440 they made the decision that they did, um, And we've 0:45:05.440 --> 0:45:06.960 seen a lot of assignment from it. We've seen a 0:45:06.960 --> 0:45:09.480 tremendous amount of assignment from the fans. They've been really 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:14.279 uh receptive of the I cracking uh clips. They've been 0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:17.840 telling us how they want to see you know, other players, 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:21.279 specific players get put under the microscope. UM. You know, 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:23.120 they would love to be able to get a better 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.719 clear breakdown of exactly how they pulled off the ace 0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:27.600 that they did. We're seeing a lot of really good 0:45:27.640 --> 0:45:30.719 reception from the commentators as well. So when we look 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:34.920 at the league, uh, the you know enders U and 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:37.440 a lot of the guys who are providing kind of 0:45:37.440 --> 0:45:40.279 the color uh you know playing by play commentary have 0:45:40.440 --> 0:45:42.160 been excited to be able to talk, you know, a 0:45:42.239 --> 0:45:45.440 little bit more about the nuances of for example, how 0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:48.399 an in game leader on the team may index more 0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:51.120 between the mini map and looking at the economy of 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:53.879 the team and the other four players who are more 0:45:53.960 --> 0:45:57.080 of the you know, damage doers and the um you know, 0:45:57.120 --> 0:45:59.040 the meet and guns of the team are just more 0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:02.000 focused on playing UM and so I think it really 0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:04.880 opens up a way to present the game again, to 0:46:05.560 --> 0:46:08.600 know why a variety of people, and it helps us 0:46:08.680 --> 0:46:12.520 as a brand find meaningful ways to continue the game 0:46:12.560 --> 0:46:15.960 back to the community rather than you know, just business 0:46:15.960 --> 0:46:21.000 as usual logo branding and culsorship rights and things like that. Fascinating, 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:23.879 I think. I also find it really interesting that that 0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:28.600 counter Strike is the sort of the go to game. 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:32.720 It makes perfect sense. But I recently did a multi 0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:36.920 part series on the history of Valve, and so my 0:46:37.040 --> 0:46:39.920 listeners now know that counter Strike that's a game that 0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:43.520 originally was you know, a modification. Uh, it was a 0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:47.920 mod of Half Life that came out thousand that It's 0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:51.080 gone through a couple of different variations, the source version 0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:53.600 of it coming out a few years ago, I believe 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:56.360 it was And to see that that game is still 0:46:57.160 --> 0:47:02.080 so so such a big part of E sports. It is, 0:47:02.280 --> 0:47:06.760 which makes sense. It requires people to have very strong 0:47:06.840 --> 0:47:09.800 skill sets as well as be very good team players 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:12.320 if you want to have a strong counter strike team, 0:47:12.520 --> 0:47:14.759 and I can definitely see where that value comes in. 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:19.359 I remember distinctly when I attended a C E S 0:47:19.440 --> 0:47:25.120 many years ago. UH. One of the the companies there, 0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:30.360 one of the the computer companies. We're hosting Ubisoft's team 0:47:30.400 --> 0:47:34.040 at the time, the frag Dolls, who were professional gamers, 0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:37.480 and the frag Dolls were taking on all comers, and 0:47:37.520 --> 0:47:40.520 so people would step up, they'd form a team of four, 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:43.719 and then three of the frag Dolls would just decimate them. 0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:45.880 And it happened over and over and over again, and 0:47:45.920 --> 0:47:48.080 it was exciting to watch. But it would have been 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:51.760 so much more interesting to actually see how they played 0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:55.200 together as a team, beyond just knowing that they're coordinating 0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:57.200 much better, that they have a good knowledge of the maps, 0:47:57.200 --> 0:48:00.760 being able to see where they're looking, and how frequently 0:48:00.760 --> 0:48:04.680 they're looking around. Do they stare at one place for 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:08.239 any given time, where are they just constantly scanning? Uh, 0:48:08.320 --> 0:48:10.640 that sort of stuff would have been really interesting to see. 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:13.080 So I find this really exciting. And as you point out, 0:48:13.280 --> 0:48:17.080 it also by giving more information. By informing the audience, 0:48:17.400 --> 0:48:21.960 you spend less time, uh, trying to familiarize yourself with 0:48:22.040 --> 0:48:24.759 the way the game is working. It becomes much more 0:48:24.800 --> 0:48:27.600 apparent early on if you're able to see what other 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:31.719 people are looking at, and I think it removes that barrier. Uh. 0:48:31.880 --> 0:48:38.760 I think it also really illustrates how professional gamers are. 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:41.799 Are you know, just incredibly good at what they do 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:46.759 beyond raking up high scores, because I think still among 0:48:46.880 --> 0:48:50.719 certain populations at least, the idea of professional gaming is 0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:55.320 somewhat scoffed at. Whereas you know, we accept professional sports 0:48:55.400 --> 0:48:58.040 pretty easily. That's been part of our culture for for 0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:02.279 decades and that is pretty easy for folks to go 0:49:02.320 --> 0:49:05.840 along with. I think before anyone gets a chance to 0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:10.160 really see what pro e sports is all about, they 0:49:10.200 --> 0:49:14.000 have an initial reaction of like, well, that's a game 0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:16.399 that's not a sport. And it's not until you're able 0:49:16.440 --> 0:49:18.359 to really kind of break it down in this way 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:20.960 and say, no, take a look at this. These these 0:49:21.000 --> 0:49:24.600 are men and women who are doing things at a 0:49:24.719 --> 0:49:28.360 level far beyond what the average person is capable of doing. 0:49:28.440 --> 0:49:32.880 It is similar, if not, if not identical to what 0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:37.880 you see in the actual physical sports realm. So I 0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:40.200 like that aspect of it as well. It gives you 0:49:40.239 --> 0:49:43.759 that extra I guess ammunition is the right way to 0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:46.359 put it when you are talking about the sports and 0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:50.279 trying to explain to someone how it really is a 0:49:50.640 --> 0:49:54.719 level of performance beyond what the average person tends to 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:58.480 be able to do. Uh. Through this partnership, I'm sure 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:01.480 you've you've seen some really interesting stuff. Are there any 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:07.879 particular uh stories or particular revelations that you have encountered 0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:12.120 as a result of this eye tracking technology being part 0:50:12.280 --> 0:50:15.880 of this experience. Yeah, I mean I would definitely say 0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:23.120 the just the little of nuanced gameplay between these counterslike 0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:27.480 players is insane. I mean we talk about, you know, 0:50:27.520 --> 0:50:29.400 these guys being able to be at the top of 0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:31.680 their games. I mean, these are the guys who absolutely 0:50:31.680 --> 0:50:33.920 can tell the difference between you know, two hundred and 0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:37.959 sixty hurt versus a hundred and forty two hurts. There's 0:50:38.000 --> 0:50:40.080 jokes out there about how these human I feel and 0:50:40.160 --> 0:50:42.399 see you know thirty fps. That is completely not true 0:50:42.440 --> 0:50:44.920 at all. Um. You know the counter start guys who 0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:46.919 within the league and a lot of these guys here 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:52.760 are just very um uh, their their senses are extreme. 0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:54.600 You know, when you also could have some of these 0:50:54.600 --> 0:50:56.480 guys play. There's a player like j d M on 0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:58.919 Team Liquid who means back, you know, three or four 0:50:58.960 --> 0:51:02.320 ft behind it here, the distance between his eyes to 0:51:02.440 --> 0:51:06.440 the screen is wildly different from you know, another player 0:51:06.920 --> 0:51:10.080 who may be near seven inches away. Um. We found 0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:12.400 that can be interesting in the studio setting when it 0:51:12.440 --> 0:51:15.320 comes to calibrating the eye tracking units for the various 0:51:15.360 --> 0:51:17.840 players and making sure that the way that they compete 0:51:17.920 --> 0:51:20.360 is how they're being calibrated at the time. But I 0:51:20.400 --> 0:51:23.399 think just at a very high level, um, people, once 0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:25.239 we slow down the game and once we get to 0:51:25.320 --> 0:51:28.000 replays and all the technologies finally as caught up to 0:51:28.040 --> 0:51:30.919 be able to subtily break down the nuances of how 0:51:31.000 --> 0:51:34.480 quick they are in terms of milliseconds and hundreds of milliseconds, 0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:37.920 we're gonna quickly see just you know, the difference between 0:51:38.880 --> 0:51:41.040 the top one percent of players and invest of us 0:51:41.040 --> 0:51:46.680 out there. And uh, that'shing to be very exciting to see. Yeah, 0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:49.759 and and you know something else that stood out to 0:51:49.800 --> 0:51:53.120 me here with with the initial raud and it's kind 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.640 of the first the first time the getting technical SIGMENTA 0:51:56.640 --> 0:52:01.000 started to run on the league coverage has been the reaction. So, 0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:03.839 you know, I mentioned part of the reason that we're 0:52:03.840 --> 0:52:06.719 doing this is we want to improve the viewership experience, 0:52:07.280 --> 0:52:10.360 you know, selfishly for us as gamers and fans, because 0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:13.000 we're watching these things ourselves and we want to be 0:52:13.080 --> 0:52:17.160 able to us better viewing experience. Like if you look 0:52:17.160 --> 0:52:21.600 at the feedback you know, just on on Facebook, comments 0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:25.000 on what you see happening on Twitch on the Elite broadcast, 0:52:25.080 --> 0:52:29.759 like the comments from fans is it's really encouraging around this. 0:52:29.920 --> 0:52:34.200 They appreciate this technology, They appreciate being able to get 0:52:34.239 --> 0:52:39.880 a better glint at how these professionals are performing real 0:52:39.920 --> 0:52:43.319 time something we've never seen before. So you know, as 0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:46.520 we as we roll on new new innovations and technologies, 0:52:46.560 --> 0:52:49.760 we do obviously a ton of work, and we're working 0:52:49.760 --> 0:52:52.279 with and talking with our fans and our customers and 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:56.320 just gamers overall too um to make sure we're delivering 0:52:56.320 --> 0:53:00.200 what they want. Ultimately alien where is trying to over 0:53:00.280 --> 0:53:03.799 that ultimate gaming experience. We feel this place right into that, 0:53:04.400 --> 0:53:08.560 but it's always and it's always reassuring one when we 0:53:08.600 --> 0:53:11.600 go down a path and we work with partners UM 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:14.080 and roll out new technologies and new features and so 0:53:14.280 --> 0:53:18.799 on to see that. See the fan reaction is UM 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.840 is a positive, is coming back positive and that to 0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:25.320 me has definitely said out of have and seen anything 0:53:25.360 --> 0:53:30.680 negative around the technology, just a lot of appreciation from 0:53:30.680 --> 0:53:33.960 from the game of community. Well, I love that. There 0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:37.240 is what we do want to add in the fan feedback. 0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:42.960 People have been clamoring about what a anti cheating tool 0:53:43.200 --> 0:53:46.160 that may wind up being. UM. It's curious to see 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:47.759 because what if one day they you know, we all 0:53:47.800 --> 0:53:50.160 had monitors that always tracked our eyes and you can 0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:54.120 never disable that UM that that would be a very 0:53:54.160 --> 0:53:57.520 interesting future. When we come back, we'll chat a bit 0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:00.040 more with Robert from Turner about how they took a 0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:03.160 challenge of taking the tech created by Toby and alien 0:54:03.200 --> 0:54:05.920 Ware and they found a way to incorporate it into 0:54:05.960 --> 0:54:09.440 e sports broadcasts. But first let's take another quick break 0:54:09.680 --> 0:54:18.920 to thank our sponsor. So that kind of leads us 0:54:19.000 --> 0:54:23.840 naturally into a discussion about the challenges of presenting e 0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:26.759 sports to an audience in a way where they can 0:54:26.800 --> 0:54:30.240 really appreciate what's going on, and that that ties into 0:54:30.320 --> 0:54:35.359 this topic of the eye tracking technology. We know that 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:38.920 Toby Tech was the company to start working on the 0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:42.839 actual hardware and the basic software, and we had Dell 0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:46.680 and alien Ware that we're working on the various uh 0:54:46.800 --> 0:54:50.120 consumer products that incorporate that technology. But when it comes 0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:53.440 to actually implementing it in a way that makes sense 0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:57.439 both from an administrative perspective, where you guys are trying 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:02.160 to find ways of adding value to the presentation, and 0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:05.200 from a consumer perspective or from an audience perspective where 0:55:05.440 --> 0:55:10.480 they can appreciate even more the capabilities of these elite 0:55:10.480 --> 0:55:13.320 players because they're getting kind of insight into what's happening. 0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:15.600 Can you talk a little bit about that implementation and 0:55:15.600 --> 0:55:20.200 what that experience was, Like, sure, yeah, and UM, you 0:55:20.239 --> 0:55:23.560 know what I would say is it was birthed out 0:55:23.600 --> 0:55:28.440 of actually a very casual conversation between David Chen and 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:32.600 I David Chen from Dell and I um at our 0:55:32.640 --> 0:55:36.920 major actually and that was in January. Um, you know, 0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:41.040 I had seen a demo of some behind the scenes 0:55:41.080 --> 0:55:43.920 software that a League of Legends team was using to 0:55:44.000 --> 0:55:49.120 improve their performance with eye tracking and thought, wow, this 0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:53.799 is a really interesting, Um, how do we democratize that like, 0:55:53.840 --> 0:55:57.480 how do we bring that to the audience watching the 0:55:57.480 --> 0:56:00.399 game instead of making it like a back off its 0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:05.120 tool that a team is using to try and optimize 0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:10.480 its performance. And you know there are challenges for sure, right. 0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:14.960 So in March, UM I went to Austin and we 0:56:14.960 --> 0:56:18.840 we had a meeting, and in that meeting Toby actually 0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:23.279 brought their ideas on how it could work. UM. But 0:56:24.320 --> 0:56:28.719 you know, to be candid, UH, they hadn't ever run 0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:33.960 a competitive gaming event, and as you alluded to earlier, 0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:40.480 you know, competitive integrity is extremely important to us, extremely 0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:43.839 important to the players, and so we have to be 0:56:43.960 --> 0:56:48.560 very careful about what we do in the studio and 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:52.759 how we produce things. And as a result, UM, it 0:56:52.920 --> 0:56:55.400 is certainly not as simple to do something like this 0:56:55.480 --> 0:56:59.640 eye tracking as one would think it would be. UM. 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:02.000 So to kind of walk through the components of how 0:57:02.040 --> 0:57:06.919 it works, UM, you need a computer with an eye 0:57:06.920 --> 0:57:11.560 tracker connected to it, UM that is capturing gays in 0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:18.360 real time. Then you also need a video feed of 0:57:18.480 --> 0:57:24.360 the point of view of the player in real time. UM. 0:57:24.400 --> 0:57:26.960 And the two things like the the eye tracker needs 0:57:27.000 --> 0:57:31.440 to be synchronized for the resolution and aspect ratio that 0:57:31.480 --> 0:57:34.560 the player is running the game at and of course 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:37.960 then the p o V feed of the gameplay also 0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:41.640 needs to be exactly what the player is looking at, 0:57:41.760 --> 0:57:45.680 so it can't be at a different aspect ratio or 0:57:45.800 --> 0:57:51.160 resolution and have it make perfect sense, right. And then 0:57:51.240 --> 0:57:54.800 you need to take those two things, that the video 0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:58.240 feed of the gays and the actual p o V 0:57:58.960 --> 0:58:02.520 and then use podcast production equipment to merge those two 0:58:02.560 --> 0:58:07.560 things in real time so you're getting an accurate UM 0:58:07.960 --> 0:58:11.680 feed of the two things. Well, in order to do 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:16.960 all of what I just mentioned, it actually requires two 0:58:16.960 --> 0:58:20.800 computers that the players not even playing on. UM. We 0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:26.760 have one machine that is the dedicated gaze tracker that's 0:58:26.760 --> 0:58:30.080 actually outputting a green screen with the gaze on it. 0:58:30.240 --> 0:58:35.800 So that computer is the tracker itself, is mounted underneath 0:58:35.880 --> 0:58:38.880 the monitor that the player is sitting in front of 0:58:38.920 --> 0:58:43.800 on stage. And then we're using UM this might be 0:58:43.840 --> 0:58:46.120 a little too in the weeds, but we're using uh 0:58:46.800 --> 0:58:50.440 USB Cat six extenders, so we're able to run the 0:58:50.560 --> 0:58:55.400 USB three feet to a server room UM, and then 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:59.160 the actual computer that the gaze tracking software is running 0:58:59.160 --> 0:59:03.640 on is in this server room hundreds of hundreds of 0:59:03.680 --> 0:59:08.160 feet away from the actual stage. So we can't run 0:59:08.200 --> 0:59:10.960 the games tracking software on the computer that the player 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:14.200 is playing on because we can't do anything that would 0:59:14.280 --> 0:59:20.800 that could impact competitive integrity. Then for the p o 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:25.600 V UM, in order to get that p o V 0:59:25.920 --> 0:59:29.120 we cannot take it from the player's computer. So we 0:59:29.200 --> 0:59:33.400 don't ever take a video output from a player's computer 0:59:33.600 --> 0:59:38.160 and feed that into our broadcast infrastructure. Because the output 0:59:38.160 --> 0:59:41.000 from the video card on a player's computer needs to 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:44.920 go directly to the monitor, there cannot be anything in 0:59:44.960 --> 0:59:49.920 that loop that introduces any latency. So uh and again, 0:59:50.000 --> 0:59:55.280 in order to to maintain competitive integrity, we cannot use 0:59:55.440 --> 0:59:58.640 the computer that the player is playing on to produce 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:01.480 the p o B foot that we're using to produce 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:07.880 this content. So instead, I have yet another computer in 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:13.400 the same server room that is connected to a relay 1:00:13.480 --> 1:00:18.919 game server and is mimicking that player's point of view experience. 1:00:18.960 --> 1:00:23.560 So what we've done is we very carefully keep track 1:00:23.640 --> 1:00:27.280 of what aspect ratio the players running the game at 1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:31.920 on stage, We mimic those settings and all of the 1:00:31.960 --> 1:00:38.720 other settings that that players traditionally use on this secondary computer, 1:00:39.440 --> 1:00:43.720 and then we're um linking it to that player so 1:00:43.800 --> 1:00:46.960 that it shows their p o V the entire game 1:00:47.800 --> 1:00:51.800 and then feeding that into our broadcast infrastructure, and then 1:00:51.920 --> 1:00:55.920 upstream from all of that, there is a broadcast switcher 1:00:56.080 --> 1:01:00.960 that is merging the gays out put with the green 1:01:01.080 --> 1:01:06.440 removed obviously, and that POV footage and feeding that to 1:01:06.480 --> 1:01:09.040 the control room where a producer can watch it in 1:01:09.120 --> 1:01:14.080 real time and decide is this something I want our 1:01:14.160 --> 1:01:16.919 talent to talk about or not talk about? And so 1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:20.720 we're we've now done this for three weeks of this tournament, 1:01:21.680 --> 1:01:24.120 and we're you know, to be honest with you, if 1:01:24.120 --> 1:01:28.320 you had talked to me before the tournament, UM, I 1:01:29.760 --> 1:01:33.120 I was very careful to say, I don't know what 1:01:33.160 --> 1:01:35.760 we're going to get. I don't know what kind of 1:01:35.800 --> 1:01:38.080 insights we're going to get. I don't know if this 1:01:38.160 --> 1:01:42.480 is really going to be like super interesting content or 1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:46.360 just interesting content. Is it going to reveal things or 1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:50.400 not reveal things? Um? All I knew was that we 1:01:50.440 --> 1:01:52.640 had a proof of concept that we could capture this, 1:01:53.320 --> 1:01:54.800 and then we were going to see what we could 1:01:54.840 --> 1:01:58.040 do with it. But I think we're really really pleased 1:01:58.160 --> 1:02:03.520 with how the content has come come together, and the 1:02:03.560 --> 1:02:10.080 fans are just blown away. UM. I think you know, 1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:14.160 it's it's a statement about what Turner Sports brings to 1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:17.360 the e sports space where we're trying to you know, 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:22.439 constantly be additive and constantly be innovative, but not doing 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:26.360 innovation and additive things for the sake of doing them, 1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:30.120 doing them to enhance the fan engagement and the fan 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:34.440 viewing experience. Um And with this, you know what I 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:38.640 would say is there is no nothing analogous to this 1:02:39.120 --> 1:02:43.360 In traditional sports. You can see where a player runs, 1:02:43.440 --> 1:02:46.400 you can see them kick the ball, but you have 1:02:46.440 --> 1:02:51.120 no idea about like what they're looking at in real time, 1:02:51.320 --> 1:02:55.200 or what their intents are, or what they even consider. Right. 1:02:55.800 --> 1:02:59.760 You don't really have any raw data about their thoughts 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:05.840 in traditional sports except what they tell you, right. But 1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:10.160 with this, this data, that this content, it reveals thought 1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:14.200 process in a way that nothing else in sports or 1:03:14.240 --> 1:03:17.720 e sports does. At this point, you see them look, 1:03:18.360 --> 1:03:21.200 you know, do their mental check what's my health? How 1:03:21.280 --> 1:03:24.720 much ammo? Do I have? You know where where the 1:03:24.760 --> 1:03:27.360 rest of my team on the map? Like you see 1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:30.760 that in real time in the content. We're not we 1:03:30.800 --> 1:03:33.080 haven't gotten to the point where we can really do 1:03:33.120 --> 1:03:36.040 this real time in a play areat Although I want 1:03:36.040 --> 1:03:39.600 to do that at some point. Um, and I'm so 1:03:39.680 --> 1:03:45.280 excited because it's it is really like this super interesting 1:03:45.360 --> 1:03:53.400 combination of biometric technology that is not very invasive and um, 1:03:53.440 --> 1:03:57.000 this sport that is like sort of made out of data, 1:03:57.120 --> 1:03:59.560 and it would be almost impossible to do this for 1:03:59.600 --> 1:04:04.080 tragal sports. Like you know, I I am, I'm very 1:04:04.160 --> 1:04:07.680 fortunate in that I'm I'm a part of the team 1:04:07.760 --> 1:04:11.720 that also does the production for our NBA games, also 1:04:11.800 --> 1:04:15.120 does the production for our MLB games, and so I 1:04:15.160 --> 1:04:19.160 get to hear some of the behind the scenes stuff 1:04:19.680 --> 1:04:22.400 that is considered and talked about. And we certainly don't 1:04:22.400 --> 1:04:25.640 treat E sports any differently than we do those other 1:04:25.680 --> 1:04:28.960 things from a thought process perspective. But you know, as 1:04:29.000 --> 1:04:31.440 I'm sitting in the meetings in the last couple of 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:36.560 weeks and we're talking about MLB, like I'm actually thinking, Wow, 1:04:36.600 --> 1:04:40.440 wouldn't it be cool to see like gaze trace as 1:04:40.480 --> 1:04:43.880 a batter's in the batter's box and the pitches come again. 1:04:45.120 --> 1:04:48.400 But like, there is no way to do that but 1:04:48.720 --> 1:04:52.240 be super cool. So so this is like that though, 1:04:52.720 --> 1:04:56.520 this is a step in that direction, right, Um. So 1:04:56.840 --> 1:04:59.880 I mean for me, like I think it's super exciting, 1:05:00.120 --> 1:05:03.440 and I would love to see this sort of like 1:05:03.600 --> 1:05:08.240 intent based data capture. Um, you know, what did he 1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:11.240 really look at? What did he consider? I would love 1:05:11.320 --> 1:05:15.919 to see that in baseball or football or basketball. How 1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:20.080 cool would it be to see the quarterbacks checkdowns in 1:05:20.160 --> 1:05:23.880 real time in football? You know, Um, what did he 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:26.640 consider before he threw the ball over there? And what 1:05:26.680 --> 1:05:29.600 did he see before he threw that ball? Like, there's 1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:33.280 there's just not anything like this. So so to tack 1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:36.520 back the esports though, um, and the content that we've 1:05:36.600 --> 1:05:40.440 captured so far, you know, I think it's some of 1:05:40.440 --> 1:05:44.800 it is has revealed, Oh that guy does exactly what 1:05:44.840 --> 1:05:47.960 we expected. And then in other cases it's like, wow, 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:52.480 he spends a lot more time checking the more basic 1:05:52.600 --> 1:05:55.680 things than you would expect. And I think you know, 1:05:55.720 --> 1:06:01.320 with players, other players, like you know, regular stream of 1:06:01.360 --> 1:06:07.120 consciousness like everyday counterstrike players, Um, this is an opportunity 1:06:07.120 --> 1:06:09.040 for them to kind of learn, oh wow, when I 1:06:09.080 --> 1:06:11.440 go around that corner, I don't look at that box. 1:06:11.800 --> 1:06:16.720 I start over there and sort of optimize their game too. Yeah. 1:06:16.760 --> 1:06:19.320 I also I also like how you know, you you 1:06:19.400 --> 1:06:23.840 had this incredible challenge of being able to like all 1:06:23.840 --> 1:06:25.680 the pieces were there, but in order for them to 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:29.320 actually work, you had to go to these enormous considerations 1:06:29.320 --> 1:06:33.200 so that you did not affect the performance of any 1:06:33.240 --> 1:06:36.800 player's machine, because clearly, uh, it would be the same 1:06:36.840 --> 1:06:40.520 as if you were to uh to mess with uh, 1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:43.520 you know, a professional athlete in a traditional sport, if 1:06:43.520 --> 1:06:45.600 they were to mess with their equipment, it would be 1:06:45.680 --> 1:06:48.680 almost like sabotage. So you're you know, you're talking about 1:06:48.680 --> 1:06:51.760 like the not wanting to put any kind of load 1:06:52.160 --> 1:06:55.479 on a graphics processing unit that is meant to run 1:06:55.480 --> 1:06:57.920 the game on the player's machine. I would say that 1:06:57.920 --> 1:06:59.800 that's sort of analogous to what you were saying with 1:07:00.640 --> 1:07:03.440 professional sports in the in the physical realm, the idea 1:07:03.480 --> 1:07:07.200 that we can't really do that eye tracking technique with 1:07:07.560 --> 1:07:11.160 traditional sports largely because it would require us to outfit 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:15.760 professional players with additional equipment that would then in turn 1:07:15.920 --> 1:07:19.080 affect their performance. Thus you end up you end up 1:07:19.080 --> 1:07:23.040 with the classic quantum physics issue of anything you observe, 1:07:23.320 --> 1:07:27.640 you are affecting, right. So, so it's it's interesting that 1:07:28.040 --> 1:07:30.800 you know, you had to find that work around and 1:07:30.880 --> 1:07:36.360 the professional sports arena for for pro video gamers, and 1:07:36.600 --> 1:07:38.880 I think once you do consider that in the realm 1:07:38.920 --> 1:07:41.000 of the physical sports as well. Even if you're not 1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:44.560 familiar with professional video game sports or e leagues or 1:07:44.600 --> 1:07:47.680 anything of those that nature, you start to say, oh, well, 1:07:47.680 --> 1:07:49.280 now I'm getting it. Now I'm getting it. I see. 1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:51.920 It's like, you know, if if I walked up and 1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:54.760 I realized that the bat that I want to use 1:07:55.160 --> 1:07:56.800 is nowhere to be found, and I'm gonna have to 1:07:56.880 --> 1:07:58.600 use a different bat and it's one that's of a 1:07:58.680 --> 1:08:01.880 slightly different weight, and I'm not it's enough when you're 1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:04.480 talking about at that elite level of performance that it 1:08:04.600 --> 1:08:08.840 makes a measurable difference. So, Uh, I'm glad that we 1:08:08.840 --> 1:08:11.720 were able to have this conversation and and kind of 1:08:11.760 --> 1:08:14.760 get that perspective, because I think it does. It's very 1:08:14.880 --> 1:08:19.759 enlightening to people who are unfamiliar with the subject. Uh. 1:08:19.920 --> 1:08:23.839 Is there anything that you have witnessed in your time 1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:27.840 with the league that stands out as one of those 1:08:28.200 --> 1:08:31.599 really special moments, whether it was in a tournament or 1:08:31.640 --> 1:08:34.679 maybe it was maybe it was when you were when 1:08:34.680 --> 1:08:37.920 you saw this this eye tracking technology all kind of 1:08:37.920 --> 1:08:41.000 come together. But anything that kind of is particularly special 1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:44.400 in your mind. I mean, from my personal experience to 1:08:44.520 --> 1:08:48.519 kind of attack back to personal. There's kind of three 1:08:48.560 --> 1:08:52.760 moments for me, um to to take a question that 1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:56.160 asks for one and to answer with three. Um. You know, 1:08:56.200 --> 1:09:00.080 the first was the finals of our first tournament and 1:09:00.360 --> 1:09:04.400 we were we released game Command, which I have not mentioned, 1:09:04.439 --> 1:09:07.679 but it's a mosaic player, so like a user directed 1:09:07.720 --> 1:09:12.599 experience where uh end users can choose to watch any 1:09:12.640 --> 1:09:15.080 of the ten players who are playing in real time 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:20.639 or actually watch all ten. UM. Releasing that out into 1:09:20.680 --> 1:09:25.639 the wild and seeing the fan feedback on it, because 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:28.600 there was literally nothing like it in the in the 1:09:28.720 --> 1:09:32.320 world at that point. UM, and there there actually still 1:09:32.360 --> 1:09:35.120 isn't like there's still nothing where you can watch all 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:38.920 ten players at the same time, um in one UI. 1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:43.200 But UM, that was the first, you know. The second 1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:46.960 was I've talked about the Major in January a few 1:09:47.000 --> 1:09:51.040 times already, but there was a moment during the finals 1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:58.000 where we crested a million concurrent viewers on Twitch, not 1:09:58.200 --> 1:10:02.080 just breaking the all time Twitch record, but shattering it 1:10:02.200 --> 1:10:08.160 by almost three hundred thousand viewers, and you know, setting 1:10:08.160 --> 1:10:11.800 the sort of bar for competitive e sports as far 1:10:11.840 --> 1:10:15.559 as viewership counts go. And then the third, honestly is 1:10:15.640 --> 1:10:20.679 this eye tracker stuff. Um, it's always interesting to start 1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:23.160 with the theory in I mean, I guess in March. 1:10:23.280 --> 1:10:27.040 We started with a theory and go to proof of 1:10:27.080 --> 1:10:30.559 concept in June and then be sitting at a desk 1:10:30.560 --> 1:10:35.519 with white knuckles in September hoping that that vision and 1:10:35.600 --> 1:10:39.200 all of the workarounds and hard work come together. And 1:10:39.240 --> 1:10:44.040 then to see the fans react so positively. I mean, really, 1:10:44.080 --> 1:10:47.080 that's what it's about, right. It's not about me or 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:50.559 building a cool thing, as much as I love building 1:10:50.600 --> 1:10:53.040 cool things and that's kind of what I've made my 1:10:53.160 --> 1:10:58.040 living doing. Um, you know what's important is that other 1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:01.040 people are getting some value out of that, and no 1:11:01.520 --> 1:11:05.320 other people are more important than the like fans uh 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:09.519 in the scene. So um to see that and then 1:11:09.600 --> 1:11:12.080 to see what they do with it, right like they've 1:11:12.680 --> 1:11:17.080 they've taken it and turned it into memes and jokes 1:11:17.160 --> 1:11:20.480 and everything like to me, that means it's been accepted, 1:11:20.600 --> 1:11:23.519 right like at the highest level. When they start making 1:11:23.520 --> 1:11:27.839 Reddit threads about joking about past tournaments with eye tracking 1:11:27.880 --> 1:11:30.920 turned on, then to me, that means we've we've done 1:11:30.920 --> 1:11:35.479 something new. Like those three moments for me are the 1:11:35.520 --> 1:11:39.000 are the three most special among many many special moments 1:11:39.560 --> 1:11:42.959 that the last three years, those are those are great stories. 1:11:43.040 --> 1:11:46.320 And I love that this trend has been picking up 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:49.200 steam for the last not to use a valve joke, 1:11:49.479 --> 1:11:51.799 but it's been picking up steam for the past few years, 1:11:52.280 --> 1:11:56.879 and seeing not just the the professional video game sports 1:11:57.360 --> 1:12:00.719 industry really coming into its own in the United States. 1:12:00.760 --> 1:12:02.960 I mean, obviously it's been a big deal in other 1:12:02.960 --> 1:12:05.479 places as well. It started really in the US, but 1:12:05.600 --> 1:12:07.559 I would say that it kind of blossomed in South 1:12:07.640 --> 1:12:10.800 Korea and then as now finding more acceptance in the 1:12:10.880 --> 1:12:13.519 United States, which which is great. But we're also seeing 1:12:13.920 --> 1:12:19.240 uh people turning into kind of an entertainment figure through 1:12:19.320 --> 1:12:23.000 their video game playing and reaching audiences that way. Clearly 1:12:23.680 --> 1:12:29.719 there is a a uh interested invested audience they get, 1:12:30.280 --> 1:12:34.960 they get really attached to certain players and certain titles. Uh. 1:12:35.040 --> 1:12:40.040 It's exciting, and I'm glad that we're kind of like 1:12:40.320 --> 1:12:44.080 right at the point where I think it's going to explode, 1:12:44.120 --> 1:12:46.360 like it's already. I guess you could argue hitting a 1:12:46.439 --> 1:12:50.120 million concurrent twitch viewers all at once, that's kind of 1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:54.640 an explosion all in of itself. But seeing this, this 1:12:54.640 --> 1:12:58.040 this cusp of acceptance is really exciting to me because 1:12:58.040 --> 1:13:01.360 I've been following professional game aiming for a while in 1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:05.880 its various formats, whether it was through UH league, you know, 1:13:05.920 --> 1:13:09.160 tournament league play, or whether it was a group of 1:13:09.240 --> 1:13:12.719 sponsored players who were there to help represent a particular 1:13:12.760 --> 1:13:16.080 game developer, anything like that. I've been following that stuff 1:13:16.120 --> 1:13:18.840 for years and seeing it now get to a point 1:13:19.320 --> 1:13:24.920 where there's there's a real awareness and celebration of it 1:13:25.000 --> 1:13:29.439 is exciting to me. I love games. I love playing games. 1:13:29.920 --> 1:13:34.960 I am awful at them, but I still enjoy it. Uh. Yeah, 1:13:35.040 --> 1:13:38.559 we were talking before we started recording about the games 1:13:38.600 --> 1:13:41.719 that that we would stream, and I believe you mentioned 1:13:41.720 --> 1:13:46.240 a very popular M m O RPG that you occasionally 1:13:46.240 --> 1:13:49.120 would play. Yeah, I'm not afraid to break out World 1:13:49.160 --> 1:13:53.160 of Warcraft on occasion. That's fair among other games. Yeah, 1:13:53.200 --> 1:13:56.320 I I my go to SO I I used to 1:13:56.560 --> 1:14:00.439 UH so people can know interest a full disclosure. I 1:14:01.600 --> 1:14:04.160 the game I'm most known for streaming, because I don't 1:14:04.160 --> 1:14:07.400 do it very frequently is Minecraft, because I would hold 1:14:07.560 --> 1:14:11.200 a marathon session of Minecraft as part of a charity 1:14:11.240 --> 1:14:14.600 event every year, and I would play twenty four hours 1:14:14.600 --> 1:14:18.760 straight of Minecraft and then for whatever when people would 1:14:18.760 --> 1:14:21.719 make donations at whatever level they would donate, I would 1:14:21.720 --> 1:14:26.519 build a monument in Minecraft out of materials that were, uh, 1:14:26.640 --> 1:14:29.400 comparatively difficult to find. So the more you donated, the 1:14:30.400 --> 1:14:33.160 more rare the material had to be in order for 1:14:33.240 --> 1:14:36.479 me to make a monument significant for that donation. And 1:14:36.479 --> 1:14:39.000 I it was not creative mode. It was you know, 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:42.720 regular mode, turned on all the enemies everything, and um, 1:14:42.840 --> 1:14:45.599 let me tell you somewhere around our number sixteen, things 1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:49.519 get special. But uh, but yeah, I I have a 1:14:49.600 --> 1:14:52.240 love of this as well. So I cannot wait to 1:14:52.320 --> 1:14:55.439 check out the the E League play. I cannot wait. 1:14:55.520 --> 1:14:58.760 I plan to actually be at the finals, so I 1:14:58.800 --> 1:15:02.439 cannot wait to see that in person. And uh, where 1:15:02.479 --> 1:15:06.519 can people go to experience this? I mean Elite dot 1:15:06.520 --> 1:15:10.040 com is is the one stop shop for everything you'd 1:15:10.080 --> 1:15:13.760 want when we're live. That will point you to all 1:15:13.800 --> 1:15:17.200 the different viewing experiences that we have and it'll give 1:15:17.240 --> 1:15:21.839 you schedule information anything else you would want. Excellent, Robert, 1:15:21.880 --> 1:15:25.080 thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it, 1:15:25.280 --> 1:15:27.439 and I hope we get a chance to talk again 1:15:27.560 --> 1:15:30.200 in the future. Awesome. Thanks for having me on. I 1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:34.439 really appreciate the conversation. Clearly there's a healthy audience out 1:15:34.479 --> 1:15:38.879 there for professional gaming, from entertainment personalities to tournament players, 1:15:39.040 --> 1:15:40.840 and it will be really interesting to see how the 1:15:40.840 --> 1:15:43.880 industry evolves from here. Could we one day see video 1:15:43.920 --> 1:15:46.639 games take a place with traditional sports and something as 1:15:46.680 --> 1:15:50.000 celebrated as the Olympics, or will there always be at 1:15:50.080 --> 1:15:52.759 least some level of stigma in place that will prevent 1:15:52.840 --> 1:15:56.120 that from ever happening. And doesn't really matter as long 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:59.000 as people are having a good time playing or watching games. 1:15:59.840 --> 1:16:03.559 I can say this. I am in my early forties 1:16:04.000 --> 1:16:07.879 and I watch a lot of let's play style videos 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:11.920 and live streams. I enjoy watching people play games. I'm 1:16:12.000 --> 1:16:15.439 dazzled by the skills of pro level gamers, and I 1:16:15.479 --> 1:16:19.760 find myself thoroughly entertained by certain personalities when they interact 1:16:19.960 --> 1:16:25.200 with each other while playing together. Cough achievement Hunter cough. 1:16:25.800 --> 1:16:28.120 I think there's plenty of room for growth in that 1:16:28.200 --> 1:16:30.960 realm of entertainment. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode 1:16:30.960 --> 1:16:32.880 about the history of the sports. If you have any 1:16:32.960 --> 1:16:35.680 suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuffs, reach out to 1:16:35.720 --> 1:16:38.280 me on Twitter or on Facebook to handle I use 1:16:38.320 --> 1:16:40.720 it both as Text Stuff H s W and I'll 1:16:40.720 --> 1:16:47.960 talk to you again really soon. Text Stuff is an 1:16:47.960 --> 1:16:51.679 I heart Radio production. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 1:16:52.000 --> 1:16:55.200 visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 1:16:55.280 --> 1:17:00.439 you listen to your favorite shows. Two