1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to the show, 2 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for tuning in. 3 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: Wait for it, wait for it, wait, waiting for it, 4 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: waiting for it. 5 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: For this is our shout out to both Hamilton the 6 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: Musical and our super producer, mister Max Williams. I'm Ben. 7 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: Is wait for It a Hamilton reference? Yes? You know, 8 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: I tried watching it on TV. I guess it came 9 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: out on Disney Plus. 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: You always say you don't like it. 11 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: I enjoyed it, but I didn't enjoy it enough to 12 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 2: finish it. Does that make sense? You have experienced that 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: with a series or something, not a tent out there 14 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 2: mean maybe a little less so. Now, by the way, 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: good job with the strike. 16 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: Guys, thank you. 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 2: Yeah you did that. That was all Ben's idea. But 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: you know, we've been talking a lot about labor organization 19 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: and things like that, and it is cool to see, uh, 20 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: something as basic and time tested as a strike do 21 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: the damn thing with the WGA finally agreeing to some 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: pretty basic demands. Yeah, a lot of the smaller distributors 23 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: and studios had long since agreed to. That was the 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: part that kind of always made me scratch my head 25 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: a little bit. 26 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, and these things often occur in phases, right, 27 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: So now the SAG Union, the Actors Guild is in play, 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: the United Auto Workers are in played. This is this 29 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: is pretty fascinating stuff. We also want to be careful 30 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: because our returning guest, alex S is here and as 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: we know, she will crush any any untoward labor action. 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: That's right, total total buster, total, sith Laura. Yeah, that 33 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: guy nodding. Sorry, she stood up and looked at us. 34 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: And left stormed out, presumably to go bust ups. Alex Is. 35 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: Alex Is the best. We're all so glad you tuned in, folks. 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: This week is a special two part episode. We're doing 37 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: that Hamilton reference entirely because of one of the tortured antagonists, 38 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: slash co protagonist Aaron Burr, whom our pal Max Williams 39 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: lovingly or just regularly refers to as America's drum uncle. 40 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's fine. There was a an Orio I 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: think I mentioned this before, but there's an Oreo commercial 42 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 2: from way back in the day where it was like 43 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 2: a story in or something, and who was asked a 44 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 2: question of like who shot Alexander Hamilton And he's got 45 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: a mouthful of oreos and no milk, and he goes 46 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: and no one understands. And I can't remember what the 47 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: takeaway is that he comes off looking like an idiot 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: or he lost out on some sort of grant or something, 49 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: but I just I remember erber All. I remember. 50 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 3: It's funny because Aaron Burr is in many ways a 51 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 3: footnote in American history, which is funny because he came 52 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 3: up in that whole Founding Father's story and I was surprised. 53 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 3: I looked through our archives extensively. We had to have 54 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 3: done an episode on Aaron Burr. 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: We have not. 56 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, we have to because Aaron Burr, every 57 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 3: step of his life is just wild. 58 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: Yes, it very much is. It doesn't matter whether or 59 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: not you're a fan of Hamilton, really and nothing no 60 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: musical is for everyone. But there's just so much about 61 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: Burr that doesn't make it into the story because the 62 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: story's not Burr, it's Hamilton. So we've talked, like you said, 63 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: about other people who were considered influential Founding Father types 64 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: but never quite made it to potus level. Aaron Burr 65 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: is on that list, along with folks like William Jenny's 66 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: Bryant Henry Clay. Burr is a war hero, he's a senator, 67 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: he gets all the way to vice president, and at 68 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: the time of his demise he had money problems. He'd 69 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: been trying for treason, he'd alienated a lot of his friends, 70 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: or they had died, because that, you know, could very 71 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: much happen. But maybe we start, what do you think, well, 72 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: we start at the beginning, because, like r pal Max said, 73 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: this is a wild ride, right, I don't know why 74 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing echoes. 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 2: It's okay, it's in the parlance of a hip hop. 76 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about his early life. 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 2: He was born, as you know, at this end, this 78 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: time in American history, you'd be hard pressed not to 79 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: be born into some kind of military circumstances. Your parents 80 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 2: either fought in the war or you grew up with 81 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: aspirations to be a soldier, whatever it might be. His father, 82 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: Aaron Burr, was a Presbyterian minister, and he was the 83 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: second president of the College of New Jersey, which later 84 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: became Princeton University. His mother, Esther, which is a lovely 85 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: name that you don't hear much anymore these days. I'm 86 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: a big fan of Esther. Esther Edwards Burr the daughter 87 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: of Jonathan Edwards, who was a theologian in his own right. 88 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: Aaron Burr was born February sixth, seventeen fifty six in Newark, 89 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: New Jersey. We're talking sopranos country. Burr's father sadly passed 90 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 2: when Aaron was only a year old, and then his 91 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 2: mother passed the following year, so he was orphaned by 92 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: the age of two. Out that's no good, and he 93 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: and his sisters moved, and thankfully they didn't have to, 94 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 2: you know, move into an orphanage. Their grandparents took took 95 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: care of them. But by the time Burr was four 96 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: years old, ah, jeez, you hate to hear it. His 97 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: grandparents died as well, so for much of his youth 98 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: he did spend living with an uncle by the name 99 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: of Timothy Edwards. 100 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: I don't know why that's a hilarious name to me, 101 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: it sounds it's one of those names that's hilarious if 102 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: someone is yelling it to indicate a person is in trouble. 103 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: Timothy Edwards. 104 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's like for a last name first name, 105 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: first name. Yeah, it's like one of those first name 106 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: first name situations. Edward Edwards would be fun too. But Timothy, 107 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: Timothy hilarious like Tony Tony Tony. For the longest time, 108 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: I thought his name was pronounced Tony Tony tone like 109 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: the last one, you know, because it was like, you know, 110 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: he's got mad tone or whatever. But no, it's Tony 111 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: Tony's major major, major, minor, major, laser, all of the majors. Uh. So, 112 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 2: Timothy was a pretty successful fellow. Again, a very revered 113 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 2: profession at the time and still today, though maybe slightly 114 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: less revered, a little more reviled. He was a lawyer, 115 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 2: and he did spare no expense, as John Hammond of 116 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,039 Speaker 2: Jurassic Park fame would say, in young Aaron's education, he 117 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 2: hired tutors from Princeton, or at least who had received 118 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 2: their education at the prestigious university, to educate him until 119 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: he himself could follow in the family legacy and the 120 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: tender Princeton University. 121 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and even back then, of course, Princeton is a 122 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: big deal. He's eleven years old when he applies to 123 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: Princeton for the first time. He's turned away because Princeton, 124 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, very reasonably, says, aren't you eleven years old? 125 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: So he waits for child right, right, He waits for 126 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: two years. Age thirteen, he reapplies and he is accepted. 127 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: He matriculates into Princeton, where he studies theology until he's 128 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: about nineteen years old. 129 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: Silly question, genter, Maybe I guess there are no silly questions. 130 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: We are a silly show. Fair. They didn't really have 131 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 2: the system of like elementary, middle and high school in 132 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: this era that we would note today, So you'd be 133 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: more likely it'd be sort of a gray area as 134 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: to when the appropriate age to go to higher university. 135 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: My higher education might be right. 136 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: You just have to have the money and be persuasive 137 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: that have the connection is you know, this is back 138 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: in the time where your higher schooling is like I'm 139 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: gonna go live with the guy in town who makes 140 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: glass and I'm. 141 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: Much more last apprentice in master trades kind of situation. 142 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: So he studies theology, and at age nineteen, he says, I. 143 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 2: Don't believe in God. 144 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: God's fine, I guess I'm going to study the law. 145 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: So I'm moving to Connecticut. The constitution, state and the 146 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,479 Speaker 1: colonial protests are happening around this time. You're getting reports 147 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: of the Continental Congress. And he's got an itch and 148 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: he's got an itchy foot on this. You know, he's thinking, 149 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: I should be stepping somewhere, I should be doing something. 150 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: How long can this unsustainable situation continue? He learns about 151 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: Lexington and Concord in seventeen seventy five, and so no 152 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: longer a theologian, no longer a law nerd Burr becomes 153 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: a soldier. Your quick props to American Battlefield Trust to 154 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: go to their website battlefields dot org. You can donate 155 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: or even become a member. But there's fabulous biographies of 156 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: a lot of great Americans, including Aaron Burr. And also, 157 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: of course shout out to Britannica. There's solid Man Britannica 158 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: dot com as a source. 159 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: Remember Encyclopedia Britannica. My physical ones, Yeah, yeah, you buy 160 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 2: them from a salesman. They were wildly expensive, they really were, 161 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: but it was almost like that was an investment in 162 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: your future. Now it's laughable because that's all like on 163 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 2: the internet for free. 164 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: It's still classy. 165 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: We had a set of Encyclopedia gilded text along the spines, 166 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: all that good stuff. 167 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: We had a set of encyclopedias way back in the day, 168 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: and I remember my dad telling me that these encyclopedias 169 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: were printed in this year. 170 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: Hm. 171 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: Our knowledge, therefore in this house goes to this year 172 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: and stopp because we're not buying another set of encyclopedia. 173 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, sort of like how ridiculous history ends at apartheid? 174 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, mid nineties. We said, that's where we that's what 175 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: we consider history flexible though, you know, well, yeah, and 176 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: Burr at this point, to be fair, he had no 177 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: idea what was going to happen. As we mentioned, this 178 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: was a very dangerous time to be a soldier, especially 179 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: in the Well in general, but especially in the Continental Army. 180 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: His career there, however, was long and prosperous. He thrived. 181 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: He also served under a buddy of his who would 182 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: later become famous. Benedict Arnold became one of America's bad bends. 183 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: That's right, and then Ben Shapiro and in that bio 184 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: on Battlefields dot Org, they make the point that Benedict Arnold, 185 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: of course became sort of like brutus, you know, a 186 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: bit of a pejorative, like you, Benedict Arnold that means 187 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 2: you're a trader, right, or Brudus Burr himself is sort 188 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: of to occupy that space, although you know, one could 189 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: argue that it's a little more complicated than that, as 190 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: it is with any of these folks. But the headline 191 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 2: is usually more interesting than the article. 192 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you know, that's why you print the retractions 193 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: later in the paper. 194 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, people, people usually skip right past the Yeah. 195 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: So I think that's an excellent point, man, because we 196 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: do have to remember there's a lot more nuanced to 197 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: these situations. We have the benefit of retrospects. We can 198 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: look back and say, like, clearly, this guy, you know 199 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: what I mean, it's like watching Cabin in the Woods again, right, 200 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: and then you. 201 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 2: Pick up on stuff all the things. Yeah, the Little Clues, 202 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 2: the Little Eastern are watching any twist oriented film again, 203 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: you know, you're kind of rewarded. It's actually kind of fun. 204 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: I've been watching a lot of the back catalog of 205 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 2: David Fincher lately. 206 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: He's a big fan of the twist sixth sense. That's 207 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: Bruce Willis the whole time. 208 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: True, and that is and then that's Forrest Gump's little son. 209 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 2: It's actually a shared universe. Nobody, Nobody talks about it. 210 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: No one talks about that. But that is an episode 211 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: for another day. The stuff that Burr does during the war, 212 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: partially due to his better than average background and partially 213 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: due to his schooling, he quickly enters the inner circles 214 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: of the army, the halls of power. He becomes an 215 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: aide de camp, which I guess is just like your boy, 216 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: your sidekick, like the best. 217 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 2: Boy in your valet. Yeah, you know, yeah. He he marches. 218 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 2: He participates in this march along with a lot of volunteers. 219 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 2: Well actually he was one. Excuse me, in this situation. 220 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 2: He was a volunteer march three hundred and fifty miles 221 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 2: through the northern wilds of Quebec to invade Canada, which 222 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: I always just think is funny, you know, because we 223 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 2: think of Canada as just being our like, gentle, docile 224 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: neighbors to the north, and the idea of invading them 225 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: just seems mean. So apparently though, this was not a 226 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: particularly for two which is expedition for the American Army, 227 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: but it was a positive outcome for young Aaron Burr. 228 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: When the soldiers got to Quebec, Burr, as you said 229 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: was appointed General Richard Montgomery's aide de camp. Burr became 230 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: a quite storied, you know, army hero in the wake 231 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 2: of this battle, and there were reports that General Montgomery 232 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: had died in the arms of his best boy, young Burr, 233 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 2: and that Burr actually tried to save Montgomery's body, but 234 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: unfortunately the brutal winter conditions prevented him from doing so. 235 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 2: Another Hamilton member of the Hamilton Coterie, Theodore Sedgwick, wrote 236 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 2: a lot of letters to Burr, describing him as being 237 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 2: this funny sounding now out of context, being young, gay 238 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: and enterprising in marsh Yeah, totally different, meaning now he's saying, 239 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: you gotta go get him attitude, You're always in a 240 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: good movie, thinking out of the box. 241 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: You're good at military minded. And then Burg goes and 242 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: works just for a bit with old straight seahorse teeth himself, 243 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: George Washington, who will later become President of the United States. 244 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: Burg gets he's not there too long because he likes 245 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: being the best boy. So he goes to work with 246 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: General Israel Putnam as his aide to come and he 247 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: becomes a this is weird. He becomes a crucial leader 248 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: in a famous retreat when the American forces have to 249 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: leave New York. He's one of the guys who's like 250 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: the best at running away, run. 251 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 2: Away in New York. He could and did become a 252 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: new man. That's my only Camelton reference that I'm going 253 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: to drop. Maybe I could say not throwing away my shot. 254 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: I know that one that's true. 255 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that big that that long shout out to eminem. 256 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: I think I only made it through like act one. 257 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: And don't get me wrong, it is a marvel. It's 258 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: beautifully produced. I'm sure it doesn't in a case I 259 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: only it was. I think I was just distracted and 260 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 2: then never came back, or maybe there's somebody with me 261 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: that didn't want to finish what I can't remember. I'm 262 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: going to go back to it. Also, kind of watching 263 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: Broadway stuff on TV, it just hits different than seeing 264 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 2: it and ensure. 265 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: I enjoyed it, and it's I see what you're saying, 266 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: because when it gets kind of in the weeds of politics, 267 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: that's where it may lose a lot of people, right, 268 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: but once it picks back up, it swells. It's epic. 269 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: I think it's worth it. But also, let's be honest, folks, 270 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: too much hype can kill anything. 271 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: That may have been happened to you. I think so too, 272 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 2: because I mean one of my favorite musicals, and just 273 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 2: about any adaptation of it at all is a very 274 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: into what is it? Turn off the Dark? Yeah, that 275 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: one was a hit. No Les Miserabla, which is also 276 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: a very in the weeds, military and kind of political piece. 277 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: I just love it. I like the book, I love 278 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 2: the music. It's I think I think for me, it's 279 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: a it's a youth thing, like I I grew up 280 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: hearing those songs. My mom was a singing teacher. But 281 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: I really thought that the film adaptation they did where 282 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: everyone sings there on stuff, you know, I thought that 283 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: was really well done. And then that guy, of course 284 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: went on to make Cats, which was not good. 285 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Are you serious? 286 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: Get out? What do you mean? 287 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: Nod it? Well, everybody loves a trade wreck. 288 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 2: At least at least the cats didn't have buttholes like 289 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: he originally wanted. 290 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: You know, maybe that would have put it pushed it over. 291 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: Best supporting actor is believe that we. 292 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: Need more realism in these these anthropomorphic sex cats. Guys. 293 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: We don't want to break the magic here. These need 294 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 1: to be anatomically accurate anthropomorphized cat. 295 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: I think they had to remove them in posts. 296 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: They did added a huge cost in production, because it 297 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: turns out, it turns out if you are video editor, 298 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: you're deep in the CGI. There's not just a remove 299 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: all buttholes button. 300 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, they need to add that to after effects. 301 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: So Max is nodding vigorously. 302 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: I am and as you guys have not said anything 303 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: about my pants. I saw my. 304 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: Pants, saw them, but we had to walk right in. 305 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: I can't see your pants in set right down. Oh man, 306 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: you monster, Max, you got your white pants on, you monster? 307 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: You you rabble. So Burr is like, one day this 308 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: is going to be part of a musical. My life 309 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: is going to be part of a musical. 310 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: However, though he probably didn't necessarily at this point think 311 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 2: that he was going to be the villain. No no 312 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 2: one ever does, though, do that, No one ever does, right, you. 313 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 1: Know, like tamer Lane or Timer the Lamee was probably 314 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: thinking I'm bringing the world together. Alexander the Great was like, 315 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: look at my street name. I can't be that bad. 316 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: Check out my white pants. 317 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: Whole pot is like, you know, saloth Sar sounds a 318 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 1: little evil. So I'm going to get more of a 319 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: name that people will trust. 320 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: Is it bad tho? Whenever I hear pull Pott, I 321 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: just think pulled pork. 322 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: No. Also, I think it's weird that his name sounds 323 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: so villainous. Our pal Alex is not actually a sith. 324 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: But if your name is Saloth Sar, he sounds straight 325 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: out of Star Wars. Very true. You definitely have the 326 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: Red Light singer. And so Burr again doesn't. He's doing 327 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: his best. He I'm joking a little bit about the retreat, 328 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: but what he figures out is pretty epic. He designs 329 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: the safest route out of the city, and he guides 330 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: five thousand people to safety. He salvages US artillery, which 331 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: is incredibly important at this point, and because of this action, 332 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy seven, Washington says, Burr, You've earned it, Bud. 333 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: You're officially a lieutenant colonel, which means you will be 334 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,879 Speaker 1: in command of more than three hundred men. He fights 335 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: off these British raids into New Jersey. He defends a 336 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: pass at Valley Forge during a really crappy winter in 337 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: seventeen seventy seventeen. 338 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: Branch. 339 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's the Battle of Monmouth. He is 340 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: defeated at the Battle of Monmouth, and he also gets 341 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: some mounting health problems because he's been going hard in 342 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: the paint for a while, so he resigns in seventeen 343 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: seventy nine from the Continental Army. He makes another shift. 344 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: He says, I remember I kind of like doing law stuff. 345 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, in New York, I can be in New I'm sorry. 346 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. 347 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 2: He passes the bar in seventeen eighty two, the New 348 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 2: York State Bar opens up his lot. What they call 349 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 2: it hanging out his shingle, and a's as they say, 350 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: and that's probably where that term came from, you know. 351 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: They say it in like better call saul, But it's 352 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 2: probably an old timey legal term from when you'd literally 353 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: have a practice and your little sign would be out 354 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 2: front and it would be like in the form of 355 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 2: a little shingle. So he's set up for a lawyer 356 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 2: in and he marries a widow and the couple stays 357 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 2: together until her death in seventeen ninety four. In seventeen 358 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 2: eighty four and seventeen eighty five, he gets elected to 359 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 2: the State Assembly, and in eighty nine, because we're in 360 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: the seventeen, So I'm just going to say eighty nine 361 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: he gets appointed Attorney General by Governor George Clinton, not 362 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 2: of parliament funkadelic fame. Unfortunately, he could have add some 363 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: funk in his soul though. By ninety one he has 364 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 2: built a very successful political movement against General Philip Schuyler, 365 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: who is the father in law of Ding Ding Ding 366 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 2: Alexander Hamilton. Wait for wait for wait, who's then the 367 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: Secretary of the Treasury. 368 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: Yes, and he wins. Burr wins the election, as any 369 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: fan of Hamilton knows, and Hamilton takes this personally. Burr 370 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: runs for vice president in seventeen ninety six. He loses. 371 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: You can read a lot about the US presidential elections, 372 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: by the way, especially the election of eighteen hundred on 373 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Virginia dot org. It's well worth the time. We're 374 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: getting to that election in just a second. Here's what 375 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: you need to know. Bur runs for vice president in 376 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: seventeen ninety six. He loses. Ah boo. He kind of 377 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: snowballs for him for a second. 378 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: He doesn't go theme with this guy. 379 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: He doesn't get re elected to the Senate. He loses 380 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: to Shyler, and he spends the next two years deep 381 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: in state politics, all the way until the eighteen hundred election. 382 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 1: It's a grudge match. This is back when if you 383 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: ran for president and you got second place, you would 384 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: be the vice president to your basically your mortal enemy. 385 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: So there's a rematch between Adams and Jefferson and they 386 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: and they don't want to be in a situation where 387 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: Jefferson is Adams VP. So the parties try to say, 388 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: all of our teams, all of our electors. He got 389 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 1: to be on one page, we got to be unified. 390 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 1: On the federalist side. Adams is going to run with 391 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: Charles Coatsworth, Uh, not a superpower name. And Jefferson is 392 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: going to be running with you guessed it, folks, Aaron Burr. 393 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: Oh and there's no popular vote at this point. 394 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 2: Oh fun, right, fun? Yeah? So can I jump in? 395 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 2: Real quick? 396 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: Jump? 397 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: Jump on in. I don't think I've told you guys 398 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: this story. I think I was saving it for this episode. 399 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 3: No I'm not, but this this is so the wedding 400 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 3: I went to a Michigan that I wore these lovely 401 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 3: white pants. They look good, they looked on They're amazing, 402 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 3: and pants labor damp and you ragged on me. Ben's like, oh, 403 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: maximally wants to talk about the white pants because he 404 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 3: wants us to notice that that. 405 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 2: He's working out. 406 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: I heard, I heard everything you guys said, including that 407 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 3: entire concert going on behind you. 408 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: Good and great work on that, by the way, of course, 409 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: of course. 410 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 3: But so where I was sleeping at my aunt's house, 411 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 3: like it's it's like she moved in this house recently. 412 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: It's got she needs to do a lot of work. 413 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: But there's this painting hanging. So her husband's grandfather painted 414 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 3: really weird things, and no one understands the things he painted, 415 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 3: but hanging watching me sleep every night was a painting 416 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 3: of Aaron Burr, and no one understands why he picked 417 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 3: Aaron Burr. Ah, And my uncle Dave is a character. 418 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 3: He is just like this, a classic amazing character. And 419 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 3: so being a character, he won't let my ane Jennifer 420 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 3: take it down, but she wants to burn it because 421 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 3: he's like, Aaron Burr sucks and it's weird. 422 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 2: He needs to get Aaron burned. Yeah, that's very weird. 423 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 2: That's an odd one. Usually, if you're gonna have a 424 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 2: political portrait hanging up on the wall and be a 425 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 2: Jefferson or a Washington or a Lincoln. Aaron Burr is 426 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 2: a little bit of an odd choice, as we'll get 427 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 2: to quite soon. 428 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: Why yes, yeah, and no sense in standing on ceremony. 429 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: Let's let's dig in here. At this time. The state 430 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: legislatures appoint electors men of letters and learning the idea 431 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: went will surely make the most informed and most advantageous 432 00:23:58,040 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: or beneficial choice. 433 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: So it's just like kind of an early form of 434 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 2: the electoral college. 435 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 1: Very similar, and also also it's intellectually fraudulent to pretend 436 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: that that is the case. But the Democrats Republicans, that's 437 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: Democrat dash Republicans sweep most of the South. They get 438 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: all the electors from Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, 439 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: all the bits states, all the top ones, all the 440 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: quality wines, all the smooth jazz. Adams is in contrast, 441 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: he's doing very well in the Northeast. He gets all 442 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: the votes from Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, 443 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: Rhode Island, Vermont. And because Burr is on the ticket 444 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: and Burr is a New Yorker, Jefferson wins that state. 445 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: If you look at the other states at the time, Carolina, 446 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: the North Carolina, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, it's way more mixed. 447 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: So the Federalists said, there might be a tie. We 448 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: need to figure out, we need to figure out how 449 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: to make sure that doesn't happen. No one wants a tie. 450 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: Let's go to Rhode Island and we'll have one of 451 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: our boys cast one vote for John Jay. 452 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. So all the Democratic Republican electors contrastingly cast their 453 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 2: ballots for Jefferson and Burr. And since the electors couldn't 454 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: indicate a presidential or vice presidential vote specifically, you just yeah. 455 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: The result was a tie, and then the winner was 456 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 2: going to be determined by a duel to the death. 457 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 2: I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We'll get to that though. We'll 458 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 2: get to that. 459 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, they had. They eventually do get to some good dueling, 460 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: as we'll see at this point, though the duel is 461 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: a lot less physical and a lot more bureaucratic. Under 462 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,120 Speaker 1: the existing parliamentary rules that they applied, a tie had 463 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: to be decided by the House of Representatives. Each of 464 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: the sixteen states gets one vote per state. Problem being 465 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: the House of Representatives is controlled by the lame duck 466 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: federalist government. All the Federalists want to choose, in their mind, 467 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: the lesser of two evils. They say, do you like Burr? No, 468 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't trust them, but he sure isn't Jefferson. 469 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: And they're all like, yeah, beating here, Max. They're all like, yeah, 470 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: that guy. Is it still the same way? Well, I 471 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: feel like very similar. It seems like the electric cars, 472 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,959 Speaker 1: but there are there's a lot more work going on 473 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 1: behind the scenes to prevent a tie. 474 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 2: You know, right when we're talking all this stuff out loud, 475 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 2: it sure sounds a hell of a lot like casino rules, 476 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 2: you know, or rules from some for some esoteric you know, 477 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 2: card game. 478 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: Wait till we get to the double dout. 479 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's wild man. Sorry, I'm damaged from Vegas. 480 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: Never be the same. So voting in the House of 481 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 2: Representatives starts on February eleventh of eighteen oh one, and 482 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: on the very first ballot, Jefferson wins as the choice 483 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 2: of eight of the states, while Burr gets the support 484 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 2: of six. So more than thirty additional votes are held 485 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 2: over the next few days, with the same unfortunately tied results. 486 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 2: A bit of a stemy kind of situation there Alas 487 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 2: around thirty six ballots are then cast, with the Federalists 488 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 2: and Marylyn and Vermont deciding to sit those out, giving 489 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: those states to Jefferson, who is then elected with Burr 490 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: as his VP on February seventeenth by a majority of 491 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 2: ten states to four, and Delaware and South Carolina actually 492 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 2: cast blank votes, which seems like what is that like a. 493 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: Tight kind of a flex like they were very tarts 494 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: at that point, you know it was it was a 495 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: message about the dangers of government overreach. 496 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 2: They're just being petty, right. 497 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: No, they're being artistic, petty artistic, petty artistic. 498 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 2: I'm going to cut you out. 499 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 3: He he says, this going to be being petty, artistic, artistic, artistical, 500 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 3: great power expensive, yeah. 501 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, on your side. 502 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: You stole the wrong radio. This star. 503 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: That's a reference for just a few people them. You 504 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: know what what is not from Hamilton? Yes, in Max's 505 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: defense as well, it is clearly a It is clearly 506 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: a protest vote. It's clearly being the people who say, well, 507 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do anything, you know what I mean. 508 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: It is somewhat petulant, but they probably felt they had 509 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: no other option this election. Just the massive poop show 510 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: of this whole thing is the origin point, the catalyst 511 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: for the adoption of the Twelfth Amendment in eighteen oh four. 512 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: The Twelfth Amendment says, all right, electors, you're still voting, 513 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: but you're casting separate ballots for president and vice president 514 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: because those blank votes were just ridiculous. You guys were 515 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: own ups. We're starting a new country. Anyway, We've got 516 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: to get to the duel. And on the way to 517 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: the duel, it is important to note that Burr was 518 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: not a bad vice president. He had good judgment. Thomas Jefferson, 519 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: like many many other people, did not trust Burr and said, 520 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: keep that guy out of the White House politics, don't 521 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: let him do his job. 522 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: His story thus far seems to be one of pretty 523 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 2: great competence. At the very least. You know, he was 524 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: a smart guy. He was a brave guy, it would seem, 525 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 2: you know, I. 526 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 3: Will say, when it comes to researching Burr, it's interesting, 527 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 3: at least from the sources I've found, ye was it's 528 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 3: either all the way to like, hey, Aaron Burr was 529 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 3: actually a very important person. To Hey, Aaron Burr was 530 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 3: crazy there's no middle ground. It's really interesting, if weird 531 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 3: of his story. But I mean it's like one of 532 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 3: these things that you know, history is written with. It 533 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 3: is sure, and we all kind of know where the 534 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: story someone ends, and then when he continues to end 535 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 3: further and further on, it's wilder and wilder. But it's 536 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 3: it's interesting because, yeah, it looks like he was just 537 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 3: gonna be in that list of people like founding fathers. 538 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 3: This guy's very famous and awesome and successful. 539 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: There is a Venn diagram between greatness and insanity. However, 540 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: I would argue that many, many great people have a 541 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: much higher likelihood of being what we would consider insane, 542 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: but still touched. To be that ambitious totally, you have 543 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: to you have to be able to envision that kind 544 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: of larger than life pursuit for yourself, which means you 545 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: basically hallucinate your way into success. 546 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you've all depending on the outcome that 547 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 2: can even be described as ambition or delusions of grandeur. 548 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 2: You know, no one ever says someone who wins and 549 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: does a good job and goes down in history had 550 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: delusions of grandeur. No, it was just grandeur, and there 551 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 2: were no delusions. They call it ambition, even if they 552 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 2: have to step on a few toes, you know, to 553 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: to break the eggs that make the omelet. That's how 554 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 2: that expression goes. 555 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, you led the figure of speech to water 556 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: that might drink waterboard. That's terrible. Adult waterboard yourselves, folks. 557 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: It's not as fun as it sounds. And Burr is 558 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: now part of a power divide. 559 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 2: Right. 560 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: Jefferson says, I don't like this guy. Keep him out 561 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: of a white house, you know what I mean, Make 562 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: him eat lunch in the back. And and Burr says, 563 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to run the Senate. And he's pretty good 564 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: at it. He's a good he's a good diplomat. He 565 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: plays the game of houses or dos de mars, they 566 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: call it a wheel of time. He plays this very well. 567 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: And he's able to grow people, to incentivize or disincentivize them. 568 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: There's an impeachment trial that comes up for a justice, federalist, 569 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: Justice Samuel Chase. This was back when bad justices, even 570 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: court justices, could get in trouble. 571 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 2: Those are the days, huh. Now they're bulletproof. I gotta 572 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: add a really stupid aside. We've been talking about how 573 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,239 Speaker 2: you know, the Aaron, our boy Aaron ended up in 574 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: some pretty chilly situations with the snow you know, where 575 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 2: he had to potentially carry the body of his commanding officer, 576 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: but it was too snowy, and then there was another 577 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 2: snowy condition. His last name is Burr. 578 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: That's worth it. And and he's bird. And it's weird 579 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: too because he doesn't have a middle name, huh, or 580 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: at least that we know of us history. 581 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: But Jefferson has he has grown tired of this this Shenanigans, 582 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 2: this power you know, these power hungry vultures of the judiciary, 583 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: and he decided to try to limit Federalist influence on 584 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court by kicking Samuel Chase to the curb. 585 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 2: And in order to do that, he had to exploit 586 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 2: some of this gentleman's earlier shortcomings. Sure that were of 587 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 2: course on the record. After the House voted to impeach Chase, 588 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: get him out of here, get him gone. His impeachment 589 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: was of course supposed to be decided by the Senate 590 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: and then presided over by the VP, our guy Burb. 591 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: And so Jefferson comes in in the background and he's like, look, 592 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't love you. You don't love me, but we 593 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: are trying to be on the same team. Do me 594 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: a solid here. Get this friggin sam guy out of office. 595 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: And Burr says, you know, I hear you. And when 596 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: people say I hear you, that means they acknowledge that 597 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: you're speaking and they're not going to do squat. So 598 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: he says, I hear you. But then he handles the 599 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: case as judiciously as possible, and a newspaper that all 600 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: read he kind of was beefed up with. Burr says 601 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: the following he conducted the hearings with the dignity and 602 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: impartiality of an angel, but with the rigor of a devil. 603 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 2: Wow, okay, all right, so because of his impartiality, a 604 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 2: Democratic Republican majority let chase off the hook. So this 605 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 2: didn't sit well with Jefferson. Let's just say, yeah, but 606 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 2: it did. I mean it was a success for Burr 607 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,760 Speaker 2: in that he made it happen, yes, but politically speaking, 608 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: was probably not a smart move. I wonder what his 609 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 2: calculations were. Why did he not see the forest for 610 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 2: the trees and the Jefferson was going to be an 611 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,839 Speaker 2: important man? Did he think it was okay to piss 612 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 2: him off because he wasn't going places. That seems like 613 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 2: a miscalculation, right, Yeah, he was. 614 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: Burr was very much a calculated dude, and if we 615 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: had to guess his impetus or his reasoning was something like, 616 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: I will prove that even to my political enemies, everyone 617 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: gets a fair shot, which I'm. 618 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 2: A man of Princeable. 619 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: That's how it is supposed to work. It is, And 620 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: Jefferson was like, heck, no, we're breaking up. 621 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 2: That's right. And you can almost argue that Jefferson was 622 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 2: being a little shady by saying ram it through what No, 623 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 2: So that's you know, Okay, this is very interesting. So 624 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: you know again, according to Aaron Burr's biography, this victory 625 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 2: would kind of be Burr's last, at the very least 626 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 2: last successful political maneuver. 627 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,760 Speaker 1: His last big ten to item. Yeah, because after this trial, 628 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: Chase gets off and goes on his merry way. Just 629 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: the scene round the land and Thomas Jefferson says, hear me, 630 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: and hear me now, Aaron Burr will not be my 631 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: running mate in the election of eighteen oh four. And 632 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: they say, well, who's it going to be, mister Jefferson? 633 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 1: And he goes, I don't care. And at the same point, concurrently, 634 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 1: while Burr's navigating the halls of power, he is increasingly 635 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,000 Speaker 1: beefed up with his long time friend of Alexander Hamilton, 636 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: and they are sniping each other back and forth. So 637 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: there's not really a Twitter, right, there are just zines 638 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: and there are broadsheets, publications, stuff like that. So these 639 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: guys are firing shots at each other in the public sphere, 640 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,960 Speaker 1: in the world of print, and then in the world 641 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: of oration all the time. In eighteen hundred, Burr publishes 642 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: something called the Public Conduct and Character of John Adams esquile, 643 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: President of the United States. This document is very, very 644 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: critical of Adams because Adams is a Federalist, and Burr 645 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: did not write this. By the way he obtained it, 646 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: he purchased and published it. The author was Hamilton, and 647 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 1: Alexander Hamilton is saying, Aaron abam bro I meant that 648 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: for just us, this isn't supposed to go out to 649 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: the whole town. I'm not supposed to go out to 650 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: everyone in America who can read. And then Burr probably said, well, 651 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like not a lot of people can. 652 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 2: Read It's like the historical equivalent of copying the wrong 653 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 2: people on an email where you're trash talking said people. 654 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: And he did it on purpose. 655 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 2: He did it not Yeah, it was the accidental text 656 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 2: on purpose. Yeah, from Curb Yesody exactly. 657 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 658 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:20,320 Speaker 2: Episode. 659 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: So this was very embarrassing to Hamilton, injured some of 660 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: his relationships and networking. And then still then they they 661 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 1: did not fight yet. There's just more and more tension, right, 662 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: and the New York Governor's race occurs in eighteen oh four. 663 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: This is when things get How did Olivia and John 664 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,800 Speaker 1: put it? Yeah, this is when things get physical. 665 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 2: It was like trying to try to place that. I 666 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 2: guess I think of her as in Greece, is it 667 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 2: she is the one? Like Yeah, that was more like her. Yeah, 668 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 2: that was like her kind of later like disco solo 669 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 2: music careering as I just always think of her as 670 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 2: as you know, in the Bobby socks and the poodle 671 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 2: skirt and all of that stuff. But yeah, Burr thought 672 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 2: that if he won in eighteen o four the New 673 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 2: York Governor's race, that he could kind of rest back 674 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 2: some of the power and some of the clout that 675 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 2: he had lost in you know, crossing Jefferson right, And 676 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 2: also obviously this accidental text on purpose didn't really bode 677 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 2: well for him either, because these men Jefferson and Hamilton 678 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 2: are very quickly well Jefferson already of course, but very quickly, 679 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 2: you know, big leaguing Burr. 680 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Burr says, forget you, guys. I'm running as 681 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 1: an independent, and if I win, if I can pull 682 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: this off, then it's a whole new town baby, and 683 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 1: Burr will be back in business. So it's a risk, 684 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: it is a calculation, it's a heck of a gamble. 685 00:38:53,520 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: And Hamilton is laying awake at night terrified about this idea. Oh, 686 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,120 Speaker 1: BurrH is in charge of New York. He's gonna ruin 687 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: the whole thing at this point in my life, he 688 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: says to himself, I despise and mistrust and hate Aaron Burr. 689 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 1: He's a Burr in the shoe of America. And Hamilton 690 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: tries to convince the Federalist in New York not to 691 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: support Burr at all in any shape, form or fashion. 692 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: He wasn't the main person who shut down the election, 693 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: but he probably didn't help. And so Burr's campaign to 694 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: be governor of New York fails. 695 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,240 Speaker 2: Do you think there was a generalized mistrust of birth 696 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,000 Speaker 2: this far because he seemed to be a bit of 697 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 2: a double dealer, a bit of a you know. 698 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: Two faced well maybe not two faced, but one hundred 699 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: percent he was. I mean, not for nothing. Is there 700 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: that talk less, smile more part in Hamilton? And I 701 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: think you probably. 702 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,360 Speaker 2: Watched that part, right might I not? Can't recle Okay, 703 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 2: well it's a good point. I neither conf there we go. 704 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: And he was one of those guys. He was neither 705 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: confirmed nor denied, dude. And that even when and you're 706 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: behaving with principle, that means people are going to have 707 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: a trust deficit with you. The winner of the election 708 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: is Morgan Lewis, the New York Republican candidate. He is 709 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: supported by George and de Witt Clinton, who, despite the 710 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 1: name being de Witt, which feels very Appellachian to me, 711 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: I can say it, it does. De Witt is one 712 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 1: of the most powerful Republicans in New York. 713 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 2: And they crush Yeah. 714 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to do like a dive into the 715 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 3: to the New York Clinton family, because they're like one 716 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 3: of the kind of like almost mob style families. 717 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 2: In early America. 718 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,759 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we don't talk about but they controlled a 719 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 3: lot of this country. 720 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: And it's funny because they don't show up in a 721 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:49,840 Speaker 1: lot of national level grade school textbooks. You have to 722 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: be from, you know, that specific part of the. 723 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 2: Country, about the one with the building and the road 724 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 2: named after them, you know, with the endowments. And it 725 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 2: is funny though, like you exactly when you know, I 726 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 2: was in Detroit recent then you probably can think of 727 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 2: some of these names. Max. There were some buildings that 728 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 2: were named after some people that were obviously very well 729 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: known in the politics and the history of that part 730 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 2: of the country that I have absolutely no knowledge of, 731 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,400 Speaker 2: and some really fun Midwestern East sounding names. 732 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: Aaron Burr, you were going to rue the day you 733 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:31,879 Speaker 1: crossed the Clinton exactly. I'm sure that's how that patrician sounded. Yeah, this, 734 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: this battle for New York is bad and on some level, Burr, 735 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: despite his own miscalculations and his own warts and imperfections 736 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: and ugly bumps of her career, he says, Hamilton is 737 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,320 Speaker 1: one of the big reasons I lost this election. Hold 738 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: the phone. We are going to make this a two parter, 739 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: which we discussed earlier in advance Illo. 740 00:41:58,760 --> 00:41:59,760 Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing. 741 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: You're doing. We're not going to throw away a shot 742 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: on the British accent. 743 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 2: We shouldn't, we should, We never should, although there will 744 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 2: come a point where one of our characters does have 745 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 2: to run away to England and potentially adopt a fake 746 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 2: British accent. 747 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that actually happens more than once in this series. 748 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,919 Speaker 1: So thank you as always for tuning in. Please join 749 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,960 Speaker 1: us Thursday for part two of Aaron Burr America's Drunk Uncle. 750 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:33,960 Speaker 2: We'll see next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 751 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 752 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.