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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the host, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Wednesday, June eleventh, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines tonight. New twists in

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Speaker 2: the upcoming Brian Coburger case. Will his request for a

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Speaker 2: delay be granted by the judge? The defense rests in

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Speaker 2: the Karen Reid retrial. If you can believe it. I

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Speaker 2: can't say it, but I can believe it. So no

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Speaker 2: more witnesses. This is in the final stretch. And the

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Speaker 2: crypto kidnappers of Manhattan were finally arranged today and some

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Speaker 2: of their stories are just not adding up. And also

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Speaker 2: later in the show, Dorno Fear, our special guest pop

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Speaker 2: culture crime expert, is going to be sharing with us

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Speaker 2: the genesis behind the screen franchise, and honestly, there's so

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Speaker 2: much that more to unpack. I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I

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Speaker 2: head up KT Studios and I get to do that

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Speaker 2: every day with Courtney Armstrong, our producer and host and

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Speaker 2: body move in our crime analyst. Hello, Hello, hello, Hello,

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Speaker 2: So I mean this Brian Coburger situation, body fill us in.

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Speaker 2: These new developments are pretty are pretty so many. There

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Speaker 2: are so many new developments.

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Speaker 3: So you know, there's about a dozen maybe there's about

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Speaker 3: a dozen new documents that we still kind of have

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Speaker 3: to go through and like analyze. But the ones that

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Speaker 3: we have gone through are the motion for continuance and

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Speaker 3: the state's response. As you all know, Brian Coberger has

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Speaker 3: asked to delay the trial. It's scheduled to happen August

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Speaker 3: eleventh right now, but they've asked to delay it, and

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Speaker 3: the state finally responded, this is breaking news. And so

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Speaker 3: what I've done is I've taken both documents, right, and

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Speaker 3: I kind of just wanted to highlight why the defense

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Speaker 3: is asking for a continuance and how the state responded

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Speaker 3: if that's okay, So there's if that's yeah, okay, So

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Speaker 3: that's that's what we're gonna do. So basically, in Submarine,

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Speaker 3: the defense wants to delay the trial because they say

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Speaker 3: they have an incomplete review of the discovery. There's so

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Speaker 3: much paperwork and video and pictures and everything that they've

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Speaker 3: received from the state to go through that. They haven't

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Speaker 3: had time to go through it all. The prosecution has

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Speaker 3: not properly identified any exculpatory evidence. Well maybe there just

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Speaker 3: isn't any, right Like, just because you have discovery does

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Speaker 3: not mean there's anything exculpatory in that.

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Speaker 4: But I digress.

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Speaker 3: So they say more time is needed to investigate leads,

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Speaker 3: including potential alternative perpetrators. Additionally, they there's ongoing life history

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Speaker 3: and mitigation that they want to do as constitutionally required.

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Speaker 3: An in depth investigation into mister Coberger's life history is

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Speaker 3: still underway, so they want more time to do like

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Speaker 3: basically mister Coburger's history, you know, like how he grew

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Speaker 3: up and what was he diagnosed with and things like that. Additionally,

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Speaker 3: they say they still need to find expert witnesses that

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Speaker 3: have yet to be identified. And then this is the

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Speaker 3: one that we've been talking about prejudicial pre trial publicity

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Speaker 3: a Dateline NBC episode in May that we have been

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Speaker 3: talking about a lot featured leaks and dramatized evidence. The

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Speaker 3: source of those leaks may be associated with law enforcement

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Speaker 3: or the prosecution, and they believe it's prejudicial and will

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Speaker 3: affect fairness. And then another one that we've been talking about.

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Speaker 3: The book, right, the book that James Patterson is that

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Speaker 3: right has written, is scheduled to come out like a

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Speaker 3: week before the trial begins, so they're concerned about that.

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Speaker 3: And you know, the death penalty does require heightened protection. Right,

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Speaker 3: This is a death ped this is a capital murder case.

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Speaker 3: So cases that need more time and more preparation. So

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Speaker 3: that's the defense's argument, Okay, and you know the state responded,

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Speaker 3: and Bill Thompson, the prosecutor, is kind of cheeky in

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Speaker 3: his response. The first sentence is it is time to

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Speaker 3: try this case. And that's really it's so true, right,

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Speaker 3: And that's really.

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Speaker 4: With the show here.

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Speaker 2: It is time to try this case. We've been hearing

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Speaker 2: this from Ann Taylor, Brian Coberger's defense attorney for so

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Speaker 2: long now. I feel like we were having this conversation

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Speaker 2: six months ago.

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Speaker 4: We've had it a year ago.

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Speaker 2: It is impossible for this family of any of the

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Speaker 2: victims to move on. They really can't. And at some point,

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Speaker 2: isn't more time just adding more exposure.

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Speaker 3: Right, And that's kind of basically what the defense said.

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Speaker 3: The defense said, you've had over two years to prepare

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Speaker 3: since his arrest and your defense team.

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Speaker 5: Prosecution I think said that right.

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Speaker 2: Well, the prosecute I'm sorry, yes, yes, of course, what

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Speaker 2: they're saying is like the prosecution said, right, the prosecution

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Speaker 2: is said, I'm sorry, You're right.

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Speaker 3: You've had over two years to prepare since the arrest.

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Speaker 3: And the defense and team includes three attorneys, two investigators,

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Speaker 3: a mitigation specialist in multi expert witnesses already the disclosures

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Speaker 3: that had been made sixteen guilt phase expert reports, six

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Speaker 3: penalty phase expert reports, twenty one hundred pages of mitigation material,

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Speaker 3: fifty five witnesses, one one hundred and thirty two exhibits

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Speaker 3: for the penalty phase. They also say this is a

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Speaker 3: delay tactic based on procedures. The motion was filed after

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Speaker 3: the deadline expired, so the state is saying, you can't

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Speaker 3: even really consider this motion because the deadline has expired.

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Speaker 3: So that's kind of maybe something that might stick, you know,

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Speaker 3: judges like to stick to procedure, right. The defense failed

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Speaker 3: to notify the court earlier or request extensions and pre

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Speaker 3: trial activities proceed without mention of needing more time. There

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Speaker 3: and then the kind of the crux of what we've

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Speaker 3: kind of been going about. Is that this pre trial

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Speaker 3: you know, prejudicial publicity like from dateline is manageable kind

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Speaker 3: of wik is key for me, Yeah, go ahead and

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Speaker 3: delay it, but it's it's still out there. It still happened,

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Speaker 3: the leak still happened. More time is not going to

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Speaker 3: help you in this case. Not only that, more time

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Speaker 3: is not going to help you. That information would have

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Speaker 3: come up anyway. I would have to assume they've looked

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Speaker 3: at his phone and know what the photographs were in

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Speaker 3: his phone, And maybe had we tried this case at.

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Speaker 2: A more in a more timely way, these leaks wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have happened either. So again, more time gives more opportunity

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Speaker 2: for things to get spoiled, for jury pools to be spoiled,

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Speaker 2: and ultimately, I feel like this is just a tactic.

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Speaker 2: You know, first it was, oh, we have an alibi.

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Speaker 2: We got a ooh big, big alibi, and that alibi

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Speaker 2: kind of seems questionable. All that to be said, You know,

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Speaker 2: this is me talking yelling at the wall when we

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Speaker 2: say this to a defense attorney. You know the other

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Speaker 2: side to that is, of course, yeah, a person's life

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Speaker 2: is at stake, innocent until proven guilty this has been

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Speaker 2: a circus in the media, and you know, is that true?

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Speaker 2: Can he get a fair trial period, whether it's today, tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: or six months from now, that's you know, unanswerable at

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Speaker 2: this point.

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Speaker 4: Right now it's up to twelve jurors.

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Speaker 5: Well, well, when it goes finally to trial, it will be.

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Speaker 5: But you know, Bill Thompson, the prosecutor, was saying a

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Speaker 5: lot of what you said stuff, and I think it's

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Speaker 5: worth sharing a few more of his words. The publicity.

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Speaker 5: This is quotes. While the publicity surrounding this trial is

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Speaker 5: a challenge, defendant has not shown and cannot show, that

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Speaker 5: continuing this trial will make things any easier. It's just

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Speaker 5: as likely the delay will make it harder to seat

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Speaker 5: a jury, which only makes sense because the more time,

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Speaker 5: the more things do come out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, why not ride the clock if you're his defense attorney,

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Speaker 2: of course I want to ride out the clock. Of course,

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Speaker 2: I want there to be a disruption to kids in schools.

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Speaker 2: We got to move locations because of the high school

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Speaker 2: that the jail is near. You know, they've pushed and

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Speaker 2: pushed and pushed so many times. The leak is unfortunate

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Speaker 2: because it does fire, puts fuel into the fire, right,

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Speaker 2: but still let's get on with the show.

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Speaker 5: Yes, we want to hear from you. Do you think

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Speaker 5: this trial deserves the delay? Give us a call eight

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Speaker 5: at eight three one crime or hit us on the

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Speaker 5: talkbacks on the iHeart Radio app and we actually have

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Speaker 5: a talkback right now.

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Speaker 4: Ooh hi True Crime tonight.

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Speaker 6: Thank you for covering the Brian Coburger case again today

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Speaker 6: as well. As you know, his fascination is Ted Bundy.

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Speaker 6: That was something I found interesting from the Dateline episode.

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Speaker 6: But it got me thinking. You know, as a true

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Speaker 6: crime fan, I google serial killers all the time and

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Speaker 6: I'm always listening to content about them. Makes me nervous

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Speaker 6: about my own Google search history. How damning do you

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Speaker 6: think this evidence really was? I mean, he was a

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Speaker 6: criminology major.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a pretty good question and something that I've

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Speaker 3: actually considered quite a bit because of my own Google history. Right,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that the Ted Bundy searches are going

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Speaker 3: to be prejudicial, or I don't really think they are prejudicial.

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Speaker 3: Because he is a criminology student, it would be normal

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Speaker 3: for him to download, you know, thesis papers on Ted Bundy,

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Speaker 3: as Dateline suggested. You know, he downloaded the WSU professor

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Speaker 3: paper Ted Bundy on the Malignant Being. So it's not

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Speaker 3: like completely unnecessary for him or unrealistic. I'm sorry for

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Speaker 3: him to be downloading or even watching videos of YouTubers

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Speaker 3: talking about Ted Bundy. Just in my opinion, I think

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Speaker 3: there was much more prejudicial information in the dateline leaks, like,

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Speaker 3: for instance, looking for the sheath on Amazon on November fifteenth,

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Speaker 3: two days after the murder.

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Speaker 4: So I think that.

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Speaker 3: There are way more prejudicial things in there than that

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Speaker 3: Ted Bundy search.

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Speaker 4: But that's just my opinion. I could not agree with

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Speaker 4: you more.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think any of our Google searches,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you're if you follow any cases and

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Speaker 2: you're just curious about the backstory or what have you,

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Speaker 2: of course that gets a little tied up, and there's

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Speaker 2: no way you could become a PhD student without doing

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Speaker 2: that in criminology.

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Speaker 4: Agreed.

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Speaker 3: I totally thank you for the talk back, and again,

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Speaker 3: please let us know if you have anything else you

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Speaker 3: want to say, hit that little microphone button and.

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Speaker 4: Let us know. We get pretty instantly.

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Speaker 3: So just a quick summary on some of the evidence

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Speaker 3: that we know they have against Brian Koberger so far

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Speaker 3: and This is just things that we just know about.

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Speaker 3: For instance, they have touch DNA that was found on

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Speaker 3: the knife sheet that was left in Mattie Mogan's bed.

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Speaker 3: They have eyewitnesses. Dylan Mortensen saw the intruder that night

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Speaker 3: and described him as being tall, with an athletic build

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Speaker 3: and having bushy eyebrows. This of course matches Cobrager, but

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Speaker 3: it also matches any number of men too, right. They

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Speaker 3: have surveillance footage which shows a white Hondai a Lantra

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Speaker 3: making suspicious movements around the victim's home at the same

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Speaker 3: time that the murders allegedly occurred. They have cell phone

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Speaker 3: evidence that shows that he was making suspicious movements around

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Speaker 3: the time of the murder. And you know, obviously he

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Speaker 3: turned off his phone during that timeframe and turned it

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Speaker 3: back on on the way home. They have Amazon records.

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Speaker 3: Now we don't know the details officially of the Amazon records.

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Speaker 3: We know the details of the Amazon records through dateline,

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Speaker 3: so that but we do know through court documents that

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Speaker 3: they do have Amazon records. But according to the Dateline records,

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Speaker 3: he searched for specifically a k bar sheath on November fifteenth,

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Speaker 3: two days after the murder a sheath only right, and

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Speaker 3: you're only really looking for a sheath if you already

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Speaker 3: have a knife and you need somewhere.

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Speaker 4: To put it right and.

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Speaker 5: Quadrant.

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Speaker 3: It makes me wonder if if you had the knife

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Speaker 3: on the fifteenth.

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Speaker 4: It makes me wonder. It's scary then, and where is

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Speaker 4: it now?

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Speaker 3: You know, we learned at the last hearing that was

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Speaker 3: on YouTube, that was televised basically that the judge said,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you bring the knife in, we have

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Speaker 3: to make sure that it's in like a display case,

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Speaker 3: you know, because it's dangerous. You know, it's a weapon.

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Speaker 3: And you know there's this big flurry like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: do they have the knife? Do they have the knife?

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Speaker 3: Or is it like some sort of demonstration knife.

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Speaker 5: But it's all we're in the trial. We will continue

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Speaker 5: to follow this case. The defense rested today in the

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Speaker 5: retrial of Karen Reid. We have all the details for

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Speaker 5: you and we're going to dive into the prosecution sty

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Speaker 5: since we did the defenses already. The Crypto kidnappers were

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Speaker 5: arraigned today in Manhattan, and we are going to bring

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Speaker 5: you up to date on that and they're very serious charges.

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Speaker 5: And then we're joined by pop culture expert Dorono fear

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Speaker 5: he'll be breaking down what Hollywood films are inspired by

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Speaker 5: the creepiest true crime stories. Keep it here on True

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Speaker 5: Crime to night and don't forget to give us a

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Speaker 5: call eight to eight three one crime.

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Speaker 2: This trial, it's at rest. What will possibly happen next? Courtney?

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Speaker 2: Fill us in.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as you said, the defense has rested in the

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Speaker 5: retrial of Karen Reid. If you have been living under

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Speaker 5: a crime free rock. Karen Reid is being retried for

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Speaker 5: backing over her police officer boyfriend Brian O'Keeffe with her SUV.

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Speaker 5: So the prosecution indicates it would not call any rebuttal

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Speaker 5: witnesses tomorrow. And that was late in the day. Change Actually, so, yeah,

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Speaker 5: that just happens.

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Speaker 2: That's just happen instead too, we had heard differently earlier

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Speaker 2: in the day.

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Speaker 5: That's right. And then you know there's going to be

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Speaker 5: the closing arguments, which I am rabid to hear, and

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Speaker 5: the case could be in the jury's hands by Friday.

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Speaker 2: Wow, how is Karen Reid keeping it together? I would

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Speaker 2: be so messy in my head if I was preparing

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Speaker 2: to potentially go away for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 7: That is.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess she's been doing this now for

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Speaker 2: over a year and this is what our thirty first

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Speaker 2: day on trial and this retrial, so I mean, I

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Speaker 2: guess you have to kind of be built for it,

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Speaker 2: and you.

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Speaker 5: Know, a day at a time, what's there is no

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Speaker 5: other option, that is. But what the defense rested on

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Speaker 5: was a biomechanical expert named Andrew Renschler, and it was

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Speaker 5: his second day of testimony. A couple of takeaways. When

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Speaker 5: he was shown an X ray of O'Keefe's arm, he noted,

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Speaker 5: which is bizarre. There there is no sign of fracture

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Speaker 5: or even bruising. And in his testimony he said that

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Speaker 5: if indeed your arm is struck by a car, that's

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Speaker 5: hundreds of pounds of pressure, way more than you would

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Speaker 5: expect to cause a break, so.

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Speaker 4: That it killed you. And he didn't break anything, but

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Speaker 4: it killed you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And he, you know, he said that that it

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Speaker 5: didn't match, So, I mean, that's what he's saying was

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Speaker 5: that this man was not hit by the car. Was

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Speaker 5: his expert testimony, and he said that his crash reconstruction

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Speaker 5: tests did not match with the prosecution expert, who indicated,

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Speaker 5: of course that yes, their results show that John O'Keefe

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Speaker 5: was hit by Karen reads Eshuv, that's to be expected.

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Speaker 5: Of course, it's prosecution defense.

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Speaker 2: Your experts are Yeah, it's just expert versus expert.

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Speaker 8: That's right.

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Speaker 4: It's going to come down who do you believe?

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Speaker 7: You believe?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, who do you believe is more credible? Right? Right?

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Speaker 3: And it's going to come down to, like probably how

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Speaker 3: they presented their education, any certificates and credentials you know

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Speaker 3: they've got. I mean, that's what's gonna come down to, right,

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Speaker 3: who's more believable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or who just puts a little bit of doubt

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Speaker 2: in anybody's mind? Right, Because it does feel like this

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Speaker 2: trial has gone on for very, very long. So the

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Speaker 2: big ticket items, you know what, for you, Courtney, are

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Speaker 2: the big ticket items here at play.

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Speaker 5: The big ticket items at play for me are honestly

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Speaker 5: a lot of the players involved in the house and

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Speaker 5: what was going on that night, what preceded John O'Keefe's dying.

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Speaker 5: I maintain that this, you know, poor man who has

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Speaker 5: lost this victim. There was no intention however he died,

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Speaker 5: whether it was Karen Reid backing over him, I don't

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Speaker 5: think that happened or just something accidental happened at this

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Speaker 5: house party with fellow police officers, with a lot of drinking,

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Speaker 5: with late nights, with kind of texts going around between

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Speaker 5: the group of you'd call them inappropriate if you're in

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Speaker 5: monogamous relationships, And it just seems like it was a

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Speaker 5: lot of mess at once, and I think things happened accidentally.

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Speaker 5: What what is your biggest thing in your mind?

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Speaker 4: Body, Well, I believe she's guilty.

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Speaker 3: You know, we disagree on that, and so the biggest

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Speaker 3: part for me is her backing up at the same

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Speaker 3: time basically his phone stopped moving.

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Speaker 4: I think that's pretty damning. But hasn't that been debated?

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Speaker 4: It has been debated, But I believe debate.

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Speaker 3: I believe the prosecution expert more than I believe the

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Speaker 3: defense expert. Fair and so like kind of like how

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Speaker 3: the jury would like, it's going to really depend on

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Speaker 3: who you believe. So who were the players that you

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Speaker 3: think are super significant? Let's just go through the little

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Speaker 3: list of that night. Okay, So read we have Karen

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Speaker 3: Reid and her you know, her boyfriend and by all,

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Speaker 3: by all accounts, he was the loveliest guy, so beloved

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Speaker 3: by his family, all of his friends loved him. So Johnna,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is somebody who's life we miss. They

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Speaker 3: are drinking at a bar with who the Alberts, right,

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Speaker 3: that's who owns the house that this event happened in

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Speaker 3: front of. We have Jen McCabe, Is she there, Jen McCabe, Yes,

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Speaker 3: Jenn McCabe is the friend.

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Speaker 2: She's the one that rides with Karen Reid at the

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Speaker 2: scene when they actually the more governed his body. And

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Speaker 2: then there's this Brian Higgins. There's lots of Brian's in

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Speaker 2: this story, so that sometimes gets confusing.

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Speaker 4: And they're all cops by the way.

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Speaker 2: So Brian Higgins, he's always been a character that was

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Speaker 2: brought into the equation very early on.

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Speaker 4: He was both a friend.

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Speaker 2: He's also the one that was a cop that left

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Speaker 2: the scene to go to the precinct to fill out

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Speaker 2: some administrative paperwork under.

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Speaker 5: One thirty am in the morning at the Canton Police Department.

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Speaker 4: Why would he do that?

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Speaker 2: That's fun, That's an interesting aside, right, And he also

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Speaker 2: was the one that was texting with Karen about how

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Speaker 2: hot she was and they were having like a flirty exchange.

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Speaker 2: Unbeeva beknowns to John O'Keeffe, So that is strange. She's

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Speaker 2: also seen on the surveillance footage at the bar when

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Speaker 2: they were all there boozing it up, preparing to leave

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Speaker 2: for the night. You could sort of see we talked

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Speaker 2: about this, say, you know, two nights ago, when you

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Speaker 2: could see them squaring off Brian Higgins and the victim.

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Speaker 2: They were either goofing around, either they were drunkards or

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Speaker 2: there was a little you know, undercurrent temper, yeah, or

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Speaker 2: like one of them is texting the other one's girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: So is there something happening under the surface there. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, Like some parts of that just doesn't add up.

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Speaker 2: And if police officers are the ones actually on the

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Speaker 2: scene of the crime, why would it possibly be handled

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Speaker 2: so messy?

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Speaker 3: That's what gets me. I mean the solo cups, That's

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Speaker 3: what gets me. Is again, I agree the investigation was

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Speaker 3: horribly handled. And if listen, I think Karen Read's guilty.

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Speaker 3: I think she hit him with her car. I think

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Speaker 3: it was an accident. I don't even think she realized

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Speaker 3: she did it. But I do expect there to be

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Speaker 3: an guilty verdict in this case. And I won't be

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Speaker 3: disappointed because I don't think the prosecution did a great job.

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Speaker 5: Well, I want to lay out a couple of the

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Speaker 5: prosecution's points because it's fair and balanced. It Yeah, did so,

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Speaker 5: and then we're going to get back into the players,

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Speaker 5: because I do think.

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Speaker 4: There is I do too. They're very interesting.

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Speaker 5: But the prosecution strategy, they're actually using clips from Karen

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Speaker 5: Reid's own documentary called A Body in the Snow the

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Speaker 5: Trial of Karen Reid. They're using snippets of that and

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Speaker 5: other media appearances against her. And in terms of their evidence,

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Speaker 5: they've presented several of the first responders testified that Karen

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Speaker 5: Reid said, quote, I hit him after she found O'Keefe.

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Speaker 5: That was explained away differently on the defense, but that's

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Speaker 5: the prosecution. They also showed the jurors pieces of Reed's

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Speaker 5: broken tail light, saying that it was damaged when she

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Speaker 5: hit O'Keefe. And they're experts, I mean, they are credentialed.

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Speaker 5: They also said DNA evidence showed that o'keef's DNA likely

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Speaker 5: match samples that was found on the broken tail light

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Speaker 5: and a cocktail glass near his body, which that doesn't

388
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Speaker 5: match the story of him walking out of the last

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Speaker 5: bar they were at before arriving at the house and

390
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Speaker 5: having a glass in his hand. And then one of

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Speaker 5: the last things is the data from Karen Reid's car

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Speaker 5: when she reversed and allegedly hit him. You know, she

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Speaker 5: was going twenty four miles an hour. I don't even

394
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Speaker 5: think that was disputed. Normally we reverse at about two

395
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Speaker 5: to five miles per hour, so that's a fast one.

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Speaker 5: And then Body you had brought up earlier that it

397
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Speaker 5: was within seconds of that backup on the lexus that

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Speaker 5: John O'Keefe's phone did lock for the last time. So

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Speaker 5: the prosecution I believe their stipulation is that he was

400
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Speaker 5: hit and the phone went out right.

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Speaker 4: Two things to add to that.

402
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Speaker 2: You know Jen da cabe, who was one of the

403
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Speaker 2: players we were just talking about, she's the one that

404
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Speaker 2: said on the stand that she heard Karen say I

405
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Speaker 2: hit him.

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Speaker 4: I hit him.

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Speaker 2: Basically, Karen and Jen McCabe arrived at the scene, they

408
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Speaker 2: went back looking for him and they ultimately find him

409
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Speaker 2: in the snow in the early morning. And that's pretty

410
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Speaker 2: damning testimony, right, like did she confess at the scene.

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Speaker 2: And then the other side to that is people are saying, no,

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Speaker 2: she said I didn't hit him. I didn't hit him,

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Speaker 2: it's you know, it's a blizzard, there is distance between them.

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Speaker 4: It's hysterical.

415
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Speaker 2: You know, these are hysterical scenarios, right, So is that

416
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Speaker 2: explain awayable?

417
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Speaker 4: What about the darn dog?

418
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Speaker 2: Why were all of these texts also being deleted amongst

419
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Speaker 2: the friends, right, all of them police officers. Why would

420
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Speaker 2: you do that? Why were their time lapses? Why was

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Speaker 2: the house not searched? You know, some of these basic

422
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Speaker 2: things that would have been happening in any other investigation. Frankly,

423
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Speaker 2: in a house full of cops, it just didn't happen.

424
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Speaker 2: And it's really to their detriment. Unfortunately, whether there was

425
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Speaker 2: risky business or any trouble in paradise behind closed doors

426
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Speaker 2: in that house, we'll never really know, but will really

427
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Speaker 2: never not know if they were involved, because they just

428
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Speaker 2: really handled it poorly.

429
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Speaker 4: They handled it terribly cops. And I'm not a pilot.

430
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Speaker 2: You don't expect me to land a plane, right, That

431
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Speaker 2: would be unsurprising if I crash a plane if I'm unlicensed.

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Speaker 4: But like, honestly, these guys are pilots. You know.

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Speaker 2: This is the people that know how to process a

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Speaker 2: scene better than anyone.

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Speaker 3: Well, are they homicide cops or they like beat cops.

436
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 4: I really don't know.

437
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 2: There beat cops, I don't know. And ATF and like

438
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 2: very oh yeah, well trained. You know those are smart

439
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 2: by all accounts, seasoned, seasoned police officers. Yeah, exactly, this

440
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 2: was a major thing. And why not, you know, why

441
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 2: not call in more help. It's confusing to me. It's

442
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 2: so confusing to me that I feel more confused today

443
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,719
Speaker 2: than I did thirty one days ago. Really, yeah, it

444
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: does confuse me. Do you think it was something that

445
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: happened inside the home? I do, really, whether accidentally or otherwise.

446
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: My personal opinion, By the way, you know, this is

447
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 2: an opinion of many, I'm sure. Please we want to

448
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 2: hear yours too, So call and disagree. Eight eight eighty

449
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: three to one Crime. I think there was something fishing

450
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 2: in the house.

451
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 3: Well, we're going to be back more with more Karen Reid,

452
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: and we're going to deep dive some of the key

453
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 3: players that we were talking about. Then the alleged crypto kidnappers.

454
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: You guys, this is the update is kind of crazy.

455
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 3: I'm going to be breaking down all things Ted Bundy,

456
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 3: stay right here True Crime tonight.

457
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 4: Back to Karen Reid.

458
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: So, Courtney, you were kind of going through some of

459
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 2: the players here and we were all theorizing on what

460
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: could have happened.

461
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, we actually did just have a call from

462
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 5: the teen. Yeah, she wasn't able to stay on the line.

463
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 5: Her question was what's next if Karen Reid's found guilty?

464
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 5: What's next in the process, And Tina, that's a great question. Body,

465
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 5: you want to take just the real, simplified version of

466
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 5: what goes on.

467
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 4: She goes to jail. I think she goes straight to prison.

468
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 4: I don't think so. She will Yep, she will.

469
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 3: Be handcuffed in court and taken to jail, and then

470
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 3: they'll be you know, they'll be obviously there'll be appeals,

471
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 3: they'll be sentencing, there'll be all that. But she will

472
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: be handcuffed in court and taking the jail if she's

473
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 3: sound guilty. If she's sound guilty, that's right, And there's

474
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 3: no telling, there's no telling what's going to happen.

475
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, she'll go to jail forever. Honestly, like this

476
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: just goes think about that, Well, well.

477
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 5: Then we'll see the whole sentencing. Yeah, there's a lot,

478
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 5: but yeah, Tina, we will be glued to what has happening.

479
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: I mean obviously prior to that, you know her. You know,

480
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 3: they'll be closing arguments over the next couple of days,

481
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 3: probably by Friday, they'll have you know, the jury will

482
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 3: have it that matt might go a couple of days

483
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: and then she'll go to jail.

484
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 4: Yeah.

485
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 5: So, Stephanie, we were talking about the players who did

486
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 5: not testify this time, and one of those is Brian Higgins.

487
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 5: He testified in the initial trial but not in this one,

488
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 5: and he is one of what the lynchpins for me

489
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 5: of why I actually think Karen Rei did not do

490
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,959
Speaker 5: it because Brian Higgins atf agent who was at the

491
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 5: house party. He told the investigators, yeah, this was the

492
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: one am to complete the paperwork. But you see this

493
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 5: footage and he goes in, and the defense argues, I

494
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,880
Speaker 5: feel successfully that the video suggests he was already orchestrating

495
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 5: the cover up at one thirty am that night. Also,

496
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 5: what solidified that for me was, I don't know if

497
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 5: you guys remember the testimony of Kelly Dever. She's a

498
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 5: former Canton police officer, so she initially told authorities that

499
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 5: she saw Higgins and the Canton Police chief in the

500
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 5: sally Port the garage for quote, a suspiciously long amount

501
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 5: of time after the death, and then later Kelly recanted

502
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 5: that that seems suspicious.

503
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: Why would they be doing that in the middle of

504
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: the night, after a heavy night of drinking, in the

505
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: middle of a blizzard. Why would you go to your

506
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: office to do some administrative paperwork.

507
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 4: That just doesn't add up.

508
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: This is where, unfortunately, it's like almost both things can

509
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: be true, But why the cover up. Definitely something is

510
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 2: being covered up, right, So either they're piling on or

511
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 2: covering up. But the Shenanigans of that night, you know,

512
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 2: we had mentioned the solo cups earlier. They literally started

513
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: taking specimens from this said crime scene and put it

514
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,120
Speaker 2: in red solo cups, like the kind you drink beer

515
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: from a keg out of those solo cups.

516
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 4: That is not like sanitizing.

517
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, we don't do zippers and gloves

518
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 2: like you see in every episode of CSI. It's a

519
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: very sacred place, a death scene that has to be

520
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: handled properly and carefully. It matters so deeply for a

521
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 2: trial ahead. So why are they not doing a proper search?

522
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 2: Why is the homeowner's house up for sale. Why is

523
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: the dog? That's question suddenly gone. Why were there all

524
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 2: these butt dials too? Between the owner of the house

525
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: and this Brian And remember they were like on the

526
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 2: stand he was this is in the first trial. They

527
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 2: were like, uh, did you call anybody after the murders? No,

528
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 2: not a single person knew all these all these texts.

529
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, there's a I was butt dialing everybody.

530
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: The whole house was butt dialing each other. It just

531
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: seems preposterous, and it seemed as though potentially this group

532
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: of men were above the law, and whether you are

533
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 2: part of law enforcement or not, that's never really the case.

534
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: And it's just so unfortunate because I know there's so

535
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: many hard working officers in that department and in that

536
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: area that are are you know now kind of there's

537
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: a stink on it, for sure, absolutely.

538
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 5: And you know, Stephanie, you mentioned all the butt dials

539
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 5: going on and alleged data wiped from certain phones before

540
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 5: they were handed over. Another phone thing, and this was

541
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 5: Jennifer McCabe who were speaking about earlier. She is the

542
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 5: woman who in fact went with Karen Reid and was

543
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 5: in the car when Karen read when they came upon

544
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 5: John O'Keefe's body at approximately am. Riddle me this at

545
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 5: two thirty seven am. Why did she write this is

546
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 5: her Google search? How long? There's a typo? But how

547
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 5: long to die in cold?

548
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 9: Right?

549
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 4: This has been debated a lot too. Why googling that?

550
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: But or you know, the tab There's like a lot

551
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: of back and forth about the science of this and body.

552
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: You're so much better at the computer stuff. But there

553
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: was a tab opened allegedly at the you know, two

554
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: thirty ish, and then they don't know if maybe she

555
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 2: was googling at later or the tab was just open

556
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 2: at that time.

557
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 4: So again, tomatoes, tomatoes. It's hard to say.

558
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: It just seems like a really strange Google search when

559
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: you should be freaking out that there's your dear friend

560
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: is dead in the snow. Why are we google searching

561
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 2: things like where are the cops? Where's the ambulance? Why

562
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:47,560
Speaker 2: where's the hysterics?

563
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 5: That's right, And we actually have a caller, Oh, Maureen

564
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 5: who called in, Hello.

565
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 7: Green, Hello lady, how are you good?

566
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 4: How are you?

567
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 7: I just happened to catch a show and I mid

568
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 7: show and I had the weigh in on something.

569
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 4: We're so happy you're here. What's your question?

570
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 7: I want to know is have any of you heard

571
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 7: that the house I don't recall the officer's name, the

572
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 7: house where the John is his name, Red John Reid's

573
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 7: body was found.

574
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're thinking of Brian Albert. Probably the home that

575
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: they were all in after hours.

576
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 7: Yes, is that the house that's the sale?

577
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: Yes?

578
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 7: Yes, Well I want to know if you heard that

579
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 7: he had his whole basement floor dug up and refurnished

580
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 7: for a new concrete.

581
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: And I did hear that. I think Turtle Boy talked

582
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 4: about that quite a bit.

583
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 8: Actually, by the way, I following since the beginning, I've

584
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 8: just been picking up pieces here and there. I wish

585
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 8: I did fall up. In the beginning, I first thought

586
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 8: she was guilty as heck, she just seemed guilty to me.

587
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 8: And then all of a sudden, I start hearing things

588
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 8: and how floppy this is put together as a case.

589
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 8: And if I was John Read's family, I'd be so

590
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 8: upset at the police.

591
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: Right, And I agree they have every right to be angry.

592
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 3: The John o'keef family has every right to be angry

593
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: with how terrible this investigation was. Yeah, that it came

594
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 3: out a while ago that it's possible that the basement

595
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: was re basically done and that somebody had procured the

596
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 3: carpet that was taken out of that home. But I

597
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: actually don't I didn't follow up with it, and I

598
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 3: don't know where it went.

599
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 4: But I did hear that. I think it was from

600
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 4: turtle Boy.

601
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 5: And turtle Boy is a blogger who's actually been in

602
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 5: the courtroom and been in some hot water as well. Yeah,

603
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 5: he was witness intimidation, right, witness intimidation, and he was

604
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 5: disallowed from being there for I believe only certain people's testimony.

605
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: If Karen Reid is found innocent, then she could probably

606
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: think turtle Boy for starting this in the first place.

607
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: Because Maureen, just like you, I thought for sure she

608
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: was guilty as well. And again similarly, I was just

609
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: based on the top line that we were seeing in

610
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: the media. It seemed kind of open and shut, and

611
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 2: and then she had this like you know, congealiality issue

612
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 2: where she wasn't so like likable, She wasn't miss congeniality, right,

613
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: she was sort of a little cool, and you know,

614
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, it didn't totally track for me. But

615
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: now that we're digging in. I feel so differently. At

616
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: the bare minimum, I think it was so mishandled that

617
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: we'll never really know the truth. And I guess that's

618
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: the worst part.

619
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 4: We have another caller, Tina Hi, Tina, Hey, Hi, Tina Oh.

620
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 10: Kenny Jeremy, I think it was Hey. I think it

621
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 10: was misunderstood earlier when I called him. My question was,

622
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 10: if Karen Reid is fail not guilty, what happens after

623
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 10: the fact, Will they will there be another will there

624
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 10: be something else that happens and they go, you know,

625
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 10: talk to someone else or whatever.

626
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: Is right right? So who because if they if if

627
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: she's found not guilty, then who did it right? So

628
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 3: they have to find somebody to prosecute. I don't know

629
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 3: that the Commonwealth will. I don't know if the Commonwealth

630
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 3: will admit basically, Okay, well we got the wrong lady,

631
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 3: so we're gonna go arrest Brian Higgins now or you

632
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: know whoever that's going to be up for that that

633
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 3: it's a really good question.

634
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 4: I don't know what's gonna happen.

635
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 5: But for Karen Read it would be over.

636
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: It would be over, she would walk free.

637
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 5: That would be it and done. If the verdict comes in.

638
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, cue the book deal right exactly tells all right?

639
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 4: Right for a lot of money.

640
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: I guess with you know, which is either totally applaudable

641
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: or totally gross.

642
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: You pick.

643
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: I can't imagine the Commonwealth would be like, oh, okay,

644
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: got it wrong. I think that they would just say no,

645
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: Karen Reid did it and we just didn't prove it,

646
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 3: and that would be the end of it.

647
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 5: So yeah, and what do you think Tina guilty? Not guilty?

648
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 10: No, I mean at the very beginning I thought guilty.

649
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 10: But the moral listen, I mean, I'm just confused. I

650
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 10: really don't know. I mean I don't so therefore I'm like,

651
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 10: I mean I don't But if she's found not guilty,

652
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 10: I mean, if there's somebody out there that's really guilty,

653
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 10: and I mean if they sign her guilty and she

654
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 10: starts sob or whatever and she didn't.

655
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 7: Do it, do these people just go free? That was

656
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 7: my question?

657
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 9: Is it just?

658
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 10: I mean, if she's found guilty whatever.

659
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: Right, you know, if she's found guilty, yeah it's over.

660
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 4: And she's found not guilty.

661
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: It's a great question because other names have been brought

662
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 2: up as suspicious and so far no additional charges.

663
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 3: Right, Well, we want to hear your thoughts on all

664
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: tonight stories. Give us a call at eight eight eight

665
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: thirty one Crime to talk about Brian Coberger, Karen Read

666
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: and let us know how you feel about it all.

667
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: Anyway, we were knee deep talking about these new headlines

668
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: that are hitting everybody's desks. So body, there's a big

669
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 2: update in this Travis Decker case.

670
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 3: There is Courtney's gonna Courtney's going to go into that

671
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: a little bit. I'm gonna be talking about crypto real quick.

672
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 3: Oo right, so go ahead.

673
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 5: Travis Decker a pressing headlines, dueling headlines. I know, time sensitive, listen.

674
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 5: Travis Decker is the man that is the focus of

675
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 5: a man hunt. It is alleged that he has killed

676
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 5: his three young daughters, and at a press conference just

677
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 5: a couple of hours ago, it's confirmed that the US

678
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 5: Marshals indeed are hot on his trail. They said that

679
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 5: male blood as in male female male blood was found

680
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 5: on Decker's car, but the DNA results have not come in,

681
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 5: so there's no conclusions we can jump to. So as

682
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 5: the US Marshall focus on this manhunt, the local sheriff's

683
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 5: office is working the investigation into the girls. So that

684
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 5: is what's happening. And let's hope that Travis Decker is found.

685
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: Every time something breaks about him, I'm instantly glued hoping

686
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 3: that they found him. So they seem very dedicated to it.

687
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 3: They seem very dedicated to it. So let's wish them

688
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 3: all the luck. And if you're in the area, keep

689
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: your eye out for him. Google his name, find his picture,

690
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: get familiar with him.

691
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 4: Stay alert.

692
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to be talking about the crypto guys now.

693
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 3: This is really salacious and kind of why I'm a

694
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 3: little excited to talk about and jump the gun a

695
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 3: little bit. Did you guys hear about what's happened today?

696
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 3: So they were arraigned. We've covered the story in the past,

697
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 3: if you are not familiar with it, a guy from

698
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 3: Italy was basically kidnapped and held hostage for three weeks

699
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: in a Soho town home million dollar town home and

700
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: was allegedly tortured and what not to give up his

701
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: Bitcoin password. Well, today they were arraigned. The suspects were arranged,

702
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: the people who basically kidnapped him, William Duplessi and John Waltz,

703
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: and they're like crypto kings.

704
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 4: Okay, they're like crypto boys.

705
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 5: Right.

706
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: Well, they pled not guilty, by the way, they pled

707
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 3: not guilty. They were denied bond. They're in jail, okay,

708
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 3: until all this gets scored away. However, TMZ This is Crazy.

709
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 3: TMZ released footage of the victim, Michael Carteron, allegedly participating

710
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: in like super wild you know parties. If you catch

711
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 3: my drift, we've been you know, the media style night

712
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: in question, the night in question during his supposed time

713
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: of activity of captivity for those three weeks, and that

714
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: there's some footage in this TMZ that they had to

715
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 3: like blur out, but you can like see what's going on,

716
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 3: and it is not wholesome.

717
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 4: Tons of drugs they're part of.

718
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean he's not a victim, right exactly. Right

719
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: In one of the in some of the photos and videos,

720
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: he's basically being led around on a dog leash and

721
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 3: collar and there's like a guy sitting on the couch

722
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: with a knife in his lap. So we don't know

723
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 3: the context in which these images, you know, appear, but

724
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: it's leads.

725
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 2: Wholesome danger is too, I mean, listen, it's so it's

726
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: so hard to look at because it's wild, right, and

727
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: we encourage you to do so. But it doesn't mean

728
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 2: he wasn't a victim. It couldn't just turn dark. So

729
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, keep in mind there was a long stretch

730
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: of kidnapping. We'll be right back Doronto. Fear is joining

731
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 2: us later to talk to us about the origin of

732
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: Scream True Crime tonight, talking true crime all the time. So, body,

733
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: you're obviously a bit of a serial killer aficionado. Is

734
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: that how we would call it?

735
00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: I'm a hare?

736
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all agree on that we are officially serial

737
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,479
Speaker 2: killer haters behaviors. Listen, when we talk about this a lot,

738
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 2: they are rare, and you know it's not every day

739
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: that there is a serial killer, you know, haunting us.

740
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 2: But Ted Bundy does go down in the book, says,

741
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: hands down, one of the scariest, and for me, he's

742
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: one of the scariest because he was an intellect, right,

743
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 2: He was very bright, he was very air quotes charismatic,

744
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: and people really liked him and he was charming and handsome,

745
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: and you know, he prayed on the good girl the

746
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: ones that were school you know, students and carrying their

747
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: books and sometimes he would even put on a fake

748
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 2: cast or something to pretend that he was like limping

749
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 2: hoping a nice girl would help him. And then as

750
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: she was helping him, he would just like attach her

751
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 2: to the car, right, all of a sudden she would

752
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: be handcuffed to the front seat and then she couldn't escape.

753
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: So you know, body phyllis in Oh Ted Bundy. So yeah,

754
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: this is Ted Bundy School. This is day one of

755
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 2: Ted Bundy School. So recently Dateline.

756
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: Dateline aired an episode about University of Idaho murder suspect

757
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 3: Brian Coburger in May, in which they showed that Coburger

758
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 3: had searched for videos of Ted Bundy before his arrest.

759
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: Police also allegedly discovered selfies of Coburger wearing a black

760
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 3: hoodie similar to how Ted Bundy dressed in a couple

761
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 3: of YouTube videos that were like dramatized. And so that's

762
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 3: kind of why we're talking about this because the comparisons

763
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 3: have been made. So knowing all that this is what

764
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 3: this is why we're going to Bundy School. So Ted Bundy,

765
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 3: if you don't know, he was a very probably the

766
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 3: most famous serial cultory, right, yeah, probably, even though I

767
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: think like Gary Ridgeway was much more heinous, but I digress.

768
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy super supernatorious. He confessed to murdering over thirty

769
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 3: women and girls in the nineteen seventies across several states.

770
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 3: It all started in the Pacific Northwest and it included Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Colorado,

771
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 3: and in Flame. So I mean this spanned the nation, right,

772
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,959
Speaker 3: and you know, some experts believe that his victim count

773
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 3: could be higher, even potentially over one hundred one hundred women.

774
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 3: And they they gleaned this because after all was said

775
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 3: and done, Ted Bundy ended up on death row. And

776
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 3: part of you know, the the negotiations that were being

777
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,439
Speaker 3: done was that he would speak about what he had

778
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 3: done with FBI guys. And this is all really well documented,

779
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 3: by the way, in a Netflix documentary called the Ted

780
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 3: Bundy Tapes. Yeah, so if you get a chance to

781
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 3: check that out, check it out, because he he tells

782
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 3: a lot of information about his crimes, but he does

783
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: it in like a third person kind of.

784
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 4: Way, like, oh, if.

785
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,280
Speaker 3: I were to have done something like that, I probably

786
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 3: would have done this, you know, Like he does it

787
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 3: kind of very abstract. But we're checking out. But despite

788
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: all of his horrible crimes. He was really known for

789
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 3: being super charming and handsome, as you alluded to earlier

790
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 3: his appearance. He dressed well, he always had like, you know,

791
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 3: really nice tweed jackets, very like professory, right, like the

792
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 3: trusting guy. And he would lure women just like you

793
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: said using you know, he would prey on their kindness, right,

794
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: which made him just so terrifying. And you know notable

795
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 3: victims of Bundy, and now let me just say they're

796
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 3: all notable, right, All these women are notable. But the

797
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: reason I'm bringing this specific one up is because of

798
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 3: the comparison to Brian Coberger. Notable victims include the Kyomega

799
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 3: sorority sisters in Florida State University who he attacked and

800
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 3: murdered in nineteen seventy eight, and twelve year old Kimberly

801
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 3: Leech right after, which was his youngest victim, twelve years old. Twelve,

802
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 3: so gross awful. So here's a little bit about Bundy.

803
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 3: He was first arrested in nineteen seventy five for kidnapping

804
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: an attempted assault. That woman survived and she was able

805
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 3: to testify against him. But here's the crazy thing. He

806
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: escaped two time. Okay, So he was rested in Utah,

807
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 3: transferred to Colorado because of a he was suspected of

808
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,319
Speaker 3: murdering somebody there. And while he was in Colorado, he

809
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 3: was granted the opportunity to assist in his defense. He

810
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 3: wasn't representing himself, but he was granted the opportunity to

811
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 3: assist in his defense. And while he was doing that,

812
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: he was given access to the law library in the courthouse. Right,

813
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 3: So he's like, I need to go to the law

814
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 3: library to prepare for my defense, and the guard's like, okay,

815
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 3: go ahead, I'm gonna go smoke a cigarette. The guard

816
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 3: goes and smokes a cigarette and Ted Bundy jumps out

817
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 3: the second story window.

818
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 4: And escapes away. Six days six days he was on

819
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 4: the run.

820
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,759
Speaker 3: He basically went into like a cabin in the woods,

821
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,839
Speaker 3: and then he needed to supply, so he stole a car,

822
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 3: and in that process he got re arrested and transferred

823
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 3: to another jail, where he escaped.

824
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 4: In that jail.

825
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 3: In that jail there was like an unsecure gate, like

826
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 3: great kind of thing, yes, And he lost a bunch

827
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: of weight, lost like twenty five pounds and snuck through

828
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 3: the ducks like a freaking movie.

829
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 4: Stop it.

830
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 3: He's when Eve like Diehard, like you know, like you

831
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: know how Ruce Willis is up and the ducks and stuff.

832
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 3: That's like Ted Bundy getting out of this jail or

833
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 3: the Breakfast Club or the Breakfast Oh my duck, I

834
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 3: love that movie Breakfast Club. Yeah, mental brain break that's

835
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 3: a nice thought. Yeah, that is a nice thought. Let's

836
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: say mind cleans army. Sorry, So Ted Bundy's like crawling

837
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 3: through these ducks, right and basically lands in a guard's apartment.

838
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 3: He wasn't there. This guard wasn't there. Again, Ted Bundy

839
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 3: totally looks out. He steals some clothes from the guard

840
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 3: like dresser, puts the clothes on and leaves. And then

841
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 3: this is the crazy part. That's crazy enough. The moral,

842
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,479
Speaker 3: it's all nuts. But this would never happen today. After

843
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 3: I just got everybody seems to be escaping from prison.

844
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 4: Just got out the other day. Sorry, I'm not I digress.

845
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,879
Speaker 3: No, that's a good point. But here's what I'm saying.

846
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: What happened today After escaping from that jail, through the

847
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 3: ducks and whatnot, he took a flight to Chicago. He

848
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 3: got on a plane that would never happen today.

849
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 4: That's true. That is true.

850
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: That's what I mean by this one housed so true.

851
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 3: He took a flight to Chicago and then took a

852
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: train to ann Arbor, Michigan, drove to South Atlanta or

853
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 3: I'm sorry south to Atlanta, and then got on a

854
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 3: bus to Tallahassee, where he ended up at the Kyomega

855
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,880
Speaker 3: House where he This is where we get into the

856
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 3: similarities where he went to the Kyomega House and Brian Coberger.

857
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 3: Of course, at the Moscow, Idaho it was kind of

858
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 3: like all the girls were in a sorority. It was

859
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: an off campus house just like Kyomega. He went in.

860
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: There were four victims, two he killed and two he

861
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 3: beat up. So those are like the similarities as well

862
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 3: as you know Brian Coberger googling Ted Bundy and whatnot.

863
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 3: But I don't really think that's such a big deal

864
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 3: because he was a criminology student, right like I've googled

865
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy, you know, it's not. I just don't really

866
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: find all that to be too much. I don't think

867
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 3: that that ties him to Ted Bundy. I think more

868
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 3: the things that bind him to Ted Bundy are the

869
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 3: Kyomega killings.

870
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 4: I really do fair, That's totally fair.

871
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you guys, Ted Bundy has been someone who's

872
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,959
Speaker 5: been on my mind since I'm a teenager. Oh really Yeah.

873
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 5: I would read kind of an odd amount of books

874
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 5: on different murders and Dominic Dunn. I think probably because

875
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 5: my mother was a fan of Dominic Dunn and she

876
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 5: got me into it. But Ted Bundy. I read several

877
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: books and one that really stuck with me. It was

878
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 5: called The Stranger Beside Me.

879
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

880
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 5: It was written by a woman named Anne Rule, and

881
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 5: it terrified me so because the author and Rule turned

882
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 5: true crime journalist. She used to work the night shift

883
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 5: with Ted Bundy at a Seattle crisis hotline. People would

884
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 5: call sometimes they were suicidal or you know, in crisis,

885
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 5: and just the thought of being in this dark space

886
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 5: often the two of them alone together.

887
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 4: Did she like him? Yes, she said she did. He

888
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 4: was like a nice guy too.

889
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:33,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm remembering this from the movie that I watched,

890
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,480
Speaker 2: which randomly had who in it. It was like a

891
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 2: who's the actor from the Greatest Showman?

892
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 4: He plays huge? No, the other one good close, the

893
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 4: younger one. Yeah.

894
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 2: Zac Efron plays Ted Bundy in a film and it's

895
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: really the POV is really through his longtime girlfriend and

896
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: who was a single mother, and Ted Bundy was very

897
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 2: devoted to his daughter, and you know, kind of how

898
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: she had to reconcile these two different people was really,

899
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 2: you know, obviously worth writing.

900
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 4: A book and making a movie about.

901
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: And I think also the comparison to Coburger, which is significant.

902
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 2: It's just the idea of it being a random person.

903
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 2: You know, if what Brian Coberger is being accused of

904
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 2: is true, then he was lurking outside that house in

905
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 2: Idaho and just looking for a thrill kill if that's

906
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 2: the case, because there doesn't really seem to be a

907
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 2: super close reason or connection between the victims and the

908
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 2: alleged killer. And it sounds like Ted Bundy was very similar.

909
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 2: He had this need to kill. And yes, if you

910
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: haven't heard those tapes on the Bundy tape, good, Oh

911
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 2: it's it's actually too.

912
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 4: Scary for me. And I don't scare easily, and I

913
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 4: have a very.

914
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 2: Thick skin this job, I guess, but that was actually

915
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 2: too scary for me. Like he seems so like removed,

916
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,760
Speaker 2: is your point, Like he does seem as though he's

917
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 2: psychotically able to compartmentalize, puts himself about outside of it.

918
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 3: Right, if I were to have committed these crimes and

919
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 3: I and I killed her, I might have put her

920
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 3: skull here, by the way.

921
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: And he's so casual about how he speaks some things

922
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: that are so disgusting in raw and brutal because he

923
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: was so brutal to his victims. And you know, I

924
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: think also the fact that he doesn't have an amazing

925
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 2: origin story to explain any of this either, you know,

926
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: he I think there was some allegedly some ancestual relationships

927
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: and his parents and his mother he had a little

928
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: bit of a twisted relationship with from a distance. Nothing

929
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 2: super super great though to point to as a cautionary tale.

930
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: And by the way, we're all raised to help the

931
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: person who has a cast who can't carry their books,

932
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 2: and he is a neighbor, exactly be a good neighbor.

933
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: So I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. I

934
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 2: for sure would help the guy with the books to

935
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 2: get in his car and you know, be the first

936
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: one gone, especially if they had a dog, a lost

937
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: dog or something. I'm a sucker, a sucker.

938
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,959
Speaker 5: But I think part of what has kept his notoriety

939
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 5: so high for so long is his trials were publicized

940
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 5: and they were televised, and that really, you know, that

941
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,759
Speaker 5: was not common. And during his trial, I don't know

942
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 5: if you guys remember seeing this on any docks, but

943
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 5: during his trial for the Kimberly Leech murder, he proposed

944
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 5: to his girlfriend Harrol Anne Boone in the courtroom.

945
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 4: You know, it's so weird.

946
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy was really smart. He represented himself and he

947
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 3: knew that if he proposed in court and she said yes,

948
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 3: they didn't they didn't even have to have a wedding.

949
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 3: They're married. He knew that, Like he's a he's he

950
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 3: was a very very smart.

951
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 4: What does that mean? Really? What does he not have

952
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 4: to have a wedding?

953
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 2: They're just if she says yes, in not to cut

954
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 2: her court, really done in court and she says yes,

955
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, it's done done.

956
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 4: Isn't that wild? Yes?

957
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they didn't even have to have a wedding.

958
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 3: That was so calculated of him. He's very smarting. He's

959
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 3: very smart. I mean, you don't get to get you

960
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 3: thirty women, you convince people if you're a dummy, you

961
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 3: have to be some kind of smart about you, and

962
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 3: he was a very smart man.

963
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 5: He was even the judge said that if the circumstances

964
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 5: had been different, he would have been a good lawyer potentially.

965
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 2: Right, we have a special guest who you know, he's back.

966
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 2: He was with us last week and he is back

967
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,720
Speaker 2: again now our true crime pop culture expert Doron o Fear,

968
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 2: and he's going to give us this origin story about Scream,

969
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: the movie, which obviously was this huge Hollywood franchise, and

970
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 2: I didn't realize it was actually based on a true story.

971
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 4: So Doron welcome, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello.

972
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,320
Speaker 2: If anybody wants to ask a question to Doron or

973
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 2: join the conversation, please call us eight eight eight three

974
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: one crime or hit us up in our socials. So

975
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 2: Doroan tell us a little bit about Danny Rollin and

976
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 2: why is he so scary?

977
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 9: You know, when I started to put together my thoughts

978
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 9: for this specific episode, I decided to sort of dub

979
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 9: it to Scream behind the Mask. And I don't know

980
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 9: if you all know the story behind Danny Rollin. I

981
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 9: tell it was a one man murder spree in Gainesville,

982
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 9: Florida that actually inspired the movie franchise Scream. Which then

983
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,359
Speaker 9: created a ripple effect and inspired others to do more.

984
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 9: So it's canonized as probably one of the more twisted

985
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,760
Speaker 9: stories behind pop culture and murder.

986
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 4: So tell us when this all happened. Yeah, give us

987
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 4: a little of the backstory.

988
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 9: Okay. So Jamie Rawlings was drifter, and he had a

989
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 9: very violent past, and he was not somebody who was

990
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 9: killing for any ideological reason other than shock and all.

991
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 9: And in August of nineteen ninety in Gainesville, Florida, that

992
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 9: became his hunting ground. So for about four days he

993
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 9: murdered five college students. He murdered Christina Powell Sonya Larsen,

994
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,880
Speaker 9: Christina Hoyt, Tracy Powells, and Manny Toboda. And these five

995
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 9: beautiful students were stalked, raped some and mutilated others. He

996
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 9: was so graphic that he hosed their bodies. He decapitated

997
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 9: a victim. Another was displayed seated upright surrounded by mirrors,

998
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 9: like some kind of a prop and a horror movie.

999
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 4: Oh my god.

1000
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, he used a military he like staged it. He

1001
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 9: staged them like marionette puppets. He used a military style

1002
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:20,919
Speaker 9: carbar knife and he broke in silently, and he killed

1003
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 9: with precision, and this horrified the whole state went into lockdown,

1004
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 9: and the whole world froze at the story of these

1005
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 9: beautiful college students stalked and murdered and created into some

1006
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 9: sort of fantasy set dressing. There was never a robbery,

1007
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 9: there was never a motive. It was straight up spectacle.

1008
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 5: Doron, excuse me if you said this, but when when

1009
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 5: in time did this happen?

1010
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 9: In August of nineteen ninety.

1011
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 5: Nineteen ninety, and how was he caught?

1012
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 9: So it took him a year. They didn't catch him

1013
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 9: for a year, and he was and looked crazy about

1014
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 9: it was he was already in custody for armed robbery.

1015
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 9: And when they were able to actually figure out that

1016
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 9: that was him, he eventually confessed. And he didn't do

1017
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 9: it like a normal human being. He did songs and

1018
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 9: poems that he recorded in prison. So you're parking the

1019
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 9: straight psychopathy.

1020
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 2: Like he sings or he's doing poetry that has this

1021
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 2: confession within that yess.

1022
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 9: And so when I did last week's episode and I

1023
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 9: talked about the first monster, you know, and you guys

1024
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 9: led into this with the Ted Bundy thing, So you know,

1025
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 9: killers do things for different reasons, and what makes my

1026
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 9: skin crawl is the ones that do it where you

1027
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 9: don't know the reason. There was no rhyme or reason

1028
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 9: for this. There was no link to Satanism or that

1029
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 9: he you know, had some sort of assorted past. There's

1030
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 9: very little known about him. And the crazy thing about

1031
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 9: Danny Rollins is that, like that crime didn't just stay

1032
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 9: in Florida. It became part of the cultural mainstream. And

1033
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 9: when Kevin Williamson, who was the writer and director of

1034
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,960
Speaker 9: the original Saw movies, you know, Danny Rowling was nicknamed

1035
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 9: the Gamesville Ripper and it was what inspired him, Yeah,

1036
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 9: the game Ripper, and that's what inspired him to write Scream.

1037
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 9: And when Scream came out, you know, that was sort

1038
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 9: of a meta horror movie, and being being the pop

1039
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 9: culture fan that I am, it combined slap slasher, gore

1040
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,839
Speaker 9: with humor and sort of the rules behind horror and

1041
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 9: in terms of film, and that's where he based Ghostface,

1042
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 9: which is the killer in the screen movies that is

1043
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 9: always a different killer, but it's the killer behind a mask, right,

1044
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 9: And so Rollings kind of his like shadow even stretches

1045
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 9: deeper because the theory behind Rollins is also that he was,

1046
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 9: and it's never been proven, but from a pop culture

1047
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 9: historian lever level, it's reminiscent of the movies that came before,

1048
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 9: which was movies like Black Christmas from nineteen seventy four

1049
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 9: or the Sorority Horse House Massacre in nineteen eighty six.

1050
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 9: The other one was The House and Sorority Row and

1051
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 9: even Halloween in Friday the thirteenth. So all of those

1052
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 9: movies combined a very specific point of view, which was

1053
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,919
Speaker 9: stalking and killing college dude. And what Danny Rollins did

1054
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 9: was but he staged them for maximum shock value, and

1055
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 9: that also was part of the theme and Sorority House Massacre,

1056
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 9: so you can't. It's sort of the overlap is undeniable,

1057
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 9: you know, helpless young women, voyeurism, stalking, ritualistic violence. Like

1058
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 9: he encapsulates the worst part of what I consider serial

1059
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 9: killing spreeze well.

1060
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 5: And also just the scariest, like you said, of when

1061
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,680
Speaker 5: there is sort of no rhyme or reason. How did

1062
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 5: Roling want to be remembered? Did he want to make

1063
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 5: his mark? Is that why he was doing all this

1064
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 5: theatrical stuff like a villain.

1065
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 9: I'm going to leave I'm going to leave that for

1066
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 9: you as the experts to weigh in either in the

1067
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,719
Speaker 9: future or even get callers in to kind of tell

1068
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 9: us that there are people that are out there that

1069
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 9: really know the backstory behind this, because the truth is,

1070
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 9: you know, for me, my impetus to all of this

1071
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 9: was the fact that a movie in pop culture inspired

1072
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 9: or potentially inspired him to do what he did. And

1073
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 9: the other part of this is that it didn't end

1074
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 9: there because after the Danny Rowling killings in Gainesville, they

1075
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 9: were copycat killings. And when Scream became a phenomenon with

1076
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 9: Scream one and obviously we're up to Scream ten at

1077
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 9: this point, there were others and when the copycats followed.

1078
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 9: It started first in nineteen ninety eight in California where

1079
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 9: Mario Padilla and Samuel Rodrigue Ramirez sorry, they were teenage

1080
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 9: cousins and they murdered Padilla's mother. She was stabbed forty

1081
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 9: five times, and when they were captured, they cited Scream

1082
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 9: and Scream two is their inspiration. They said they wanted

1083
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,239
Speaker 9: to become ghost based and serial killers, just like the

1084
00:56:32,280 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 9: movies they loved.

1085
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 4: A demented you know, it's funny.

1086
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 2: Dorani and I were talking about this several months ago,

1087
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 2: you know, we were doing the Idaho Massacre podcast and

1088
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 2: you know, we've been working on the doc and we

1089
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 2: were kind of, I'm a little obsessed with the idea

1090
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 2: of imprints. We learned about this from a guy named

1091
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 2: Steve Hodell, whose father was the Black Dahlia and allegedly

1092
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 2: and he kind of he was also a former detective

1093
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: and mental imprints things. You know, we know what our

1094
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 2: fingerprints are like, but what does our mind see? And

1095
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: in Brian Coberger's case, the accused in the Idaho college

1096
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: murders his sister.

1097
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 4: He has two older sisters.

1098
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 2: One became a therapist, but one used to be like

1099
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 2: in a B movie and it was like a slasherflick,

1100
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 2: and the theme of this particular movie was that these

1101
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 2: co eds go out into the wilderness and not all

1102
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 2: of them come back, and it's a scary, screamy movie

1103
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 2: and it's you know, young people and you know all

1104
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 2: the frenzied noess that we know from those types of movies.

1105
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 4: And much has been made about this.

1106
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 2: In no way am I making the suggestion that because

1107
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 2: of that and his sister that had anything to do

1108
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 2: with his spree, but it does potentially shape things that

1109
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: we just see in the atmosphere. You know, if you

1110
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 2: see Scream, yeah, of course it's going to have an influence.

1111
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 9: Well, it actually does. And what's even more sort of

1112
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 9: blood curdling or makes your blood run cold, is that

1113
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 9: In two thousand and six, also in Idaho, Casey Joe

1114
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 9: Stoddart was sixteen and she was killed during a sleepover.

1115
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 9: Her classmates Brian Draper and Tony adamsick based out or

1116
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 9: to death and they not only stabbed her, they recorded

1117
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 9: themselves before and after, and the whole time they were

1118
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 9: doing it, they were saying it live, that we're making

1119
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 9: real life horror movie. And upon their incarceration, their whole

1120
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 9: thing was that they were Their whole tone was that

1121
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 9: it was casual, it was giddy, It was as if

1122
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 9: it was prescripted. And they also said that they wanted

1123
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 9: to mimic Scream.

1124
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 4: So you know the Slenderman. Yes, slender we should do

1125
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 4: a story, we should be narrative.

1126
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 9: But what's crazy about it is that, like in two

1127
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 9: thousand and six, this happened in Idaho, and the Scream

1128
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 9: movies and the franchise may not have inspired it, but

1129
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 9: it sort of brought it back so it starts in Gainesville.

1130
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 9: You know this this this the town in Scream is

1131
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 9: sort of Illinois, and then it goes to California, then Idaho,

1132
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 9: and then back to idahoad again because the Idaho killers.

1133
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 9: You know that happened what November thirteenth of twenty twenty two,

1134
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 9: and again for University of Idaho students to death off

1135
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 9: campus housing kids.

1136
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 4: No motive yet, no really known motive. It's not revenge.

1137
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 2: It wasn't money necessarily, it wasn't like unrequited love. Well

1138
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 2: maybe that was the kid, don't Maybe he felt rejected

1139
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 2: in his head.

1140
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:11,800
Speaker 9: I don't know.

1141
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 2: They certainly weren't all buds.

1142
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 9: There was there was no fourth entry, right, no robbery. Right,

1143
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 9: there was a brutal murder. Whether whether it is Brian

1144
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 9: Coberger or not, it's still these things have a pattern.

1145
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 9: And me as somebody who watches pop culture and wonders

1146
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:32,439
Speaker 9: about it, you know, this conversation happens all the time

1147
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 9: about you know, video games and gaming and whether that

1148
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 9: increases violence. And you know, my theory about this is

1149
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 9: is that once something becomes imaginable, it's no longer unimaginable,

1150
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 9: and that's when you start to see ways of creating

1151
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 9: it and becoming more perverse. And that's the fear that

1152
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 9: we're headed to. And you know, as part of a

1153
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 9: horror movie genre. You know, I talked about it a

1154
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 9: little bit last week. It reflects the fears of society

1155
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 9: and they're cyclical, so you know when you talk about

1156
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 9: you know, we left off last time talking about the

1157
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 9: seventies and why suddenly were you know, women as the

1158
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 9: final girl and they were always teenagers and it had

1159
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 9: a lot to do with sort of sexual promiscuity and

1160
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 9: kids having fun. And that was in an era where

1161
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 9: women's liberation was growing and the pill happened and sexual freedom,

1162
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 9: and so there was a reaction to it. And the

1163
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 9: lead up to that, strangely, in the early seventies was

1164
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,480
Speaker 9: a lot of religious horror because people were afraid that,

1165
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 9: you know, America was losing its moral compass, and that's

1166
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 9: when you had the exorcystem the Omen and all of

1167
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 9: these movies that sort of dealt with, you know, these

1168
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 9: religious themes, which then followed the birth of the slasher

1169
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 9: movies full on. Because although Psycho might have been the

1170
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 9: first slasher movie, there was a lull in between. But

1171
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 9: by the time the late seventies happened. It was all

1172
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 9: slasher all the time until we hit into the late

1173
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 9: eighties and nineties. Then and when you think of the

1174
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 9: time of that, with videotape and all of that, we

1175
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 9: entered a world of found footage, harror, so Blair witch

1176
01:00:54,840 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 9: and you know, paranormal activity where video even yeah, feels

1177
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 9: proven to be video. So you know, my fear now

1178
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 9: is that we've circled back into an environment to fear

1179
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 9: where people are not afraid of the unknown.

1180
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 3: Uh.

1181
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:11,720
Speaker 5: Doron, you are the best and we're very excited that

1182
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 5: you will be sticking around and joining us for what

1183
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 5: we're all watching. And we've got some great tips on

1184
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 5: that for you. Give us a call eight a eight

1185
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 5: three to one Crime and keep it here True Crime Tonight,

1186
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 5: we're talking true crime all the time.

1187
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:44,160
Speaker 2: Our special pop culture guest, Dorano Fear he's joining us

1188
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 2: for this next segment as well. We also have a talkback,

1189
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 2: so thank you by the way, if you want to

1190
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: join the show eight eight eight three to one Crime,

1191
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 2: or you could always leave us a talkback.

1192
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 4: Let's go to the one that just came in.

1193
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 11: Hi, my name is Sarah, and pertaining to the new

1194
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 11: England serial killer theory. I'm kind of wondering if there

1195
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:06,480
Speaker 11: could be a couple of them in the area. And

1196
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 11: it's not necessarily that there's one serial killer or thirteen killers,

1197
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 11: but I'm thinking of like how the Hillside Stranglers were

1198
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 11: active at the same time as Rodney Alkala in California.

1199
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 11: Like those things complicate stuff. Let me know what you think.

1200
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 2: Can we just discuss how smart our listeners are. I mean,

1201
01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 2: listen the crime crew out there. Every question we've been

1202
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 2: getting has been so clever and thoughtful and smart. So

1203
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 2: keep coming please eight eight eight three to one Crime. Yeah,

1204
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 2: what a smart question.

1205
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 5: You know.

1206
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 3: They call that like a cluster when there's more than

1207
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 3: one serial killer active in the same you know region.

1208
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 3: And I might be wrong about that, so let me

1209
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 3: know if I'm wrong. I'm sure you'll have no problem

1210
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 3: letting me know. But I believe it's called a cluster,

1211
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 3: and it's a really rare occurrence, but it does happen.

1212
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 3: As our talkback just mentioned, it also happened with Ed

1213
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 3: Kemper famously, right or was in mind Hunter? You know

1214
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 3: he killed his grandparents and.

1215
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 4: His mother or something. Oh yeah, the other one too scary.

1216
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 4: He did, we'll talk you. We have to cover him.

1217
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 4: It makes me not just too much, we have to

1218
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 4: get him.

1219
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 3: But you know, he was called the coed killer and

1220
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:18,640
Speaker 3: in Santa Cruz and there was also Herbert Mullen working

1221
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 3: at the same time, and it caused a lot of

1222
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 3: confusion for the investigation because there were two serial killers

1223
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 3: and I thought there was one. So to answer your question, yeah,

1224
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 3: and it's something I didn't actually think about until you

1225
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,160
Speaker 3: said it. And it's really smart because there could be

1226
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 3: I mean, it's again, it's a cluster and it is

1227
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,919
Speaker 3: pretty rare, but it definitely does happen. It is something

1228
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 3: that we should probably think about.

1229
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 9: And one of the things that is making the New

1230
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 9: England serial killer problematic is that they're saying that the

1231
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 9: motives or the methods in which these people were found

1232
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 9: are they're they're not cohesive, they're not which could lead

1233
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 9: that there's either multiple killers through coincidence, or that they're

1234
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 9: working together to sort of buddy up the investigation.

1235
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 2: Oh and that would be or that would have aten

1236
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 2: for killing and you know somebody else is doing it

1237
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: in the area that might get caught or you know,

1238
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,920
Speaker 2: cover your tracks a little bit.

1239
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 4: And why not.

1240
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 2: You know, maybe you jump in geographically to a similar

1241
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 2: location knowing that they're hot on someone else.

1242
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 4: But then you would probably try to match it a

1243
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 4: little bit.

1244
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 9: And that was you know, going back to my segment,

1245
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 9: that was what Scream was about. Because remember Scream was

1246
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,959
Speaker 9: not just one killer, so you know, it was two

1247
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,320
Speaker 9: and so you know, these things again mirror, you know. Unfortunately,

1248
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 9: when I said that the unimaginable becomes imaginable is when

1249
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 9: people start to see these things, it can lead to inspiration,

1250
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 9: and that's a really scary thought.

1251
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:39,680
Speaker 2: How do we prevent that? I think that's why you know,

1252
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: we're so excited to be able to unpack this stuff, right,

1253
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 2: because it really does fishtail these very extreme cases. They

1254
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 2: have bits and pieces of you know, regular person lives, right,

1255
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,120
Speaker 2: It's relationships, it's you know, the person next door. You know,

1256
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 2: how do we find ourselves safe in the world, and

1257
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: how do we keep ourselves safe if we don't talk

1258
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 2: about this stuff. So on the one hand, yes, it

1259
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: kind of puts almost like a little bit of a

1260
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: spotlight on people who do very bad things, and maybe

1261
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,000
Speaker 2: that's like a form of celebration, which of course we

1262
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 2: don't want to do.

1263
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 4: And frankly nobody wants to do.

1264
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 2: And then on the other side of that, if you

1265
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:18,600
Speaker 2: don't talk about it, then how do you prevent it?

1266
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know that talking about it it does

1267
01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 3: prevent it. I believe it makes it.

1268
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 4: I feel better.

1269
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think it makes us feel better to talk

1270
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 3: about it.

1271
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 9: It does, think it feel better. It also gives you awareness,

1272
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 9: and it allows you to understand motivation and concept You

1273
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 9: may not be able to imagine what it's like to

1274
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 9: be a serial killer, which would obviously lead to psychopathy,

1275
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 9: but it allows you to understand what you can do

1276
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 9: to avoid it or to become a victim.

1277
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you avoid the serial killer? You know

1278
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 2: mosttant Yes, you can. I think you can a little bit.

1279
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 2: If you don't know that there is somebody in the

1280
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 2: world that can do something that terrible, Yeah, Like, then

1281
01:05:56,560 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: you have to just be alert.

1282
01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 4: A little bit.

1283
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 2: This is not to say that victims are not alert,

1284
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 2: but like, if you don't hear this stuff, then you

1285
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 2: don't even know that you should be looking over your

1286
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 2: shoulder or you know, how to make sure that you're

1287
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 2: in your.

1288
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,680
Speaker 3: Life looking over your shoulder all the time.

1289
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 9: Like, that's just my belief it's not only that. Like

1290
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 9: if you go back to when was it nineteen seventy

1291
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 9: seven when a Ton Pots the Little Boy vanished to

1292
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 9: New York. That was the first time that the whole

1293
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 9: concept of Jennifer Generation X kind of had to wake

1294
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 9: up and bring your kids home. And that's on the

1295
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 9: whole milk carton thing. Once people understood that you could

1296
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 9: be aware and you started to teach kids about stranger danger,

1297
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 9: it was an unheard of crime and it wasn't a

1298
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:40,200
Speaker 9: crime that hadn't happened before, but it had. It had

1299
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 9: become mainstream in everyone's thought patterns because every little kid

1300
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 9: became a ton Pops and you know, he it's and

1301
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:48,440
Speaker 9: then they had all those movies you know, my name

1302
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 9: is Stephen, and they had all of this kind of

1303
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 9: culture around it as well. That was so, you know,

1304
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 9: but we now know, so you raise your children today

1305
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 9: to know about stranger danger that you know, you scream,

1306
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 9: you yell, you don't just get into a van. You know,

1307
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,600
Speaker 9: this stuff seems so common to us now, but it

1308
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 9: wasn't always like that. And it's the stories of these

1309
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 9: true crimes. It's the stories of the terrible incidents that

1310
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 9: make you go Okay, I'm not going to do that.

1311
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 9: I'm going to trust my instinct. You know, women don't

1312
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,640
Speaker 9: just walk on the streets alone without some sort of

1313
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,120
Speaker 9: understanding that they need to put their keys between their hands.

1314
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,120
Speaker 9: They need to have made that. Now, phones have pre

1315
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 9: recorded messages on them so that when you talk out loud,

1316
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 9: it sounds like you're like, husband's a cop. You know.

1317
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 5: It's so true that talking about all of this doron

1318
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,920
Speaker 5: really does make an impact ultimately. And now we're going

1319
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 5: to take a little turn into what we are watching. Stephanie,

1320
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 5: what is hot on your list?

1321
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 2: The Gilgo Beach I mean that was super scary, the

1322
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,040
Speaker 2: Peacock documentary that we were talking about, the Gilgo Beach

1323
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 2: Killer House of Secrets, and it really does highlight the

1324
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 2: accused Rex Humerman's wife in her in her own words,

1325
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 2: And I almost don't want to ruin it, unless you

1326
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 2: guys don't.

1327
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 4: I have not started it. It's interesting, I do want

1328
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 4: to know, really interesting. I really recommend it. Really, Okay,

1329
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 4: it's excellent.

1330
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 5: I actually I was so I had literally have twelve

1331
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 5: minutes left to watch because I was watching it up

1332
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 5: until we came to the studio.

1333
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:19,759
Speaker 4: Really, and yeah, it's good.

1334
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 5: But yeah, let's give everyone a little bit of time

1335
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 5: to watch it.

1336
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 3: But it just came out yesterday, right like we I

1337
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 3: haven't had any time to see it yet.

1338
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 4: I'm dying to see it and think about it.

1339
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,479
Speaker 2: Just the stakes there, you know, regardless of even taking

1340
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,439
Speaker 2: Rex Humor Mini accused Long Island serial killer out of

1341
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 2: it for a moment, just imagine your you know, have

1342
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 2: you ever been in a relationship of any kind where

1343
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 2: you were a little bamboozled or you you had a

1344
01:08:46,040 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 2: spidy sense about something but maybe didn't act on it.

1345
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 2: Obviously this would be a very extreme example of that.

1346
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:55,840
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, like her, dislike her regardless.

1347
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 2: I think that piece of it is a little relatable

1348
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: and I think also ticks back to our our first

1349
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 2: conversation about, you know, how to keep ourselves safe and

1350
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 2: talking about this stuff respectfully and ethically. Yeah, trust your

1351
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,960
Speaker 2: spidey sense, everybody, Please trust that feeling. When you have

1352
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 2: the hairs in the back of your neck go up.

1353
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 2: Listen to that, and don't get in the car. Your

1354
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 2: chances of survival go down fifty percent if you get

1355
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 2: into the car.

1356
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 4: Do not get in the car.

1357
01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 2: You kick you scream, you scream fire and you fight

1358
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 2: to the death.

1359
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 4: You do not get in the car, that is my.

1360
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 9: If you're in the back of a cab or a

1361
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:34,800
Speaker 9: ride service, do not drink the water that's provided ever.

1362
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 4: Ever, ever, ever. Oh, that is a great thing.

1363
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:39,560
Speaker 5: That's honestly something.

1364
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 2: That's a general note too that I would say, do

1365
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 2: not drink out in public if you didn't open it yourself,

1366
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 2: be really careful. I mean, we're seeing that in the

1367
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 2: Ditty case and much more, you know, different circumstances.

1368
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 4: But you know, alcohol being spiked or.

1369
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:58,760
Speaker 2: Drugged is becoming increasingly more a thing, and sometimes it's tasteless.

1370
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:05,080
Speaker 5: Ps A. These are very important darn what about Yeah.

1371
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 9: Well, you know I linked I okay, So for me,

1372
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 9: I'm going to recommend the case that made us all

1373
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 9: questioned the justice system to begin with and gave birth

1374
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 9: to the true crime documentary as we know it. So

1375
01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 9: what I started to revisit now was Paradise Lost and

1376
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 9: the child murders of Robinson Lakes nd of it. And

1377
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 9: when you met you mentioned it. That was the first

1378
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 9: documentary clime that I had ever seen me too, and

1379
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 9: I wanted to watch it now to see if it

1380
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 9: holds up and you know what, it holds up brilliantly,

1381
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 9: and it's a it's a three parter now because Paradise

1382
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 9: Loss came out in what nineteen ninety six and it's

1383
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 9: available on HBO Max. Then Paradise Lost to the Revelations

1384
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 9: came out what fourteen years later in two thousand and

1385
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 9: then Paradise three Lost three Purgatory Who came out in

1386
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,240
Speaker 9: twenty eleven. Plus there's been follow.

1387
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,759
Speaker 4: Up movies and we really good too, by the way, yep.

1388
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,759
Speaker 9: And the thing about that is that that's another case,

1389
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:59,760
Speaker 9: you know, it's never really truly been solved, but that

1390
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 9: was into trial and you know and and sort of

1391
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 9: whole accusations. It's a little bit of it's blanking on me.

1392
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 9: The Crucible, you know.

1393
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 4: Panic of the nineties, right.

1394
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:16,120
Speaker 9: Panic panic and false you know confessions, false confession you know,

1395
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 9: you know Metallica Like it makes you say, absolutely so

1396
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 9: those poor little boys because you know what the documentary

1397
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 9: is about. You know, it's you know, three eight year

1398
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 9: old boys in West Memphis, Arkansas are found dead and

1399
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 9: they're not and they're killed brutally and then teenagers and

1400
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 9: are are you know, basically rounded up for Damon Eccles

1401
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:37,519
Speaker 9: becoming the main one, James Baldwin and Jesse Ms Kelly

1402
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 9: Junior and those three, you know, they spend time for it.

1403
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 9: And the West memphisis three also is one of these

1404
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 9: that resonated with pop culture because all these pop culture

1405
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 9: people entered the fray. Johnny Dad happened? You know, there's

1406
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,599
Speaker 9: free any better? Yeah, And so it's a fascinating look

1407
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 9: at how somebody can how how true crime can influence

1408
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 9: the judicial system and help public opinion can sway a

1409
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:02,639
Speaker 9: court case.

1410
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,200
Speaker 4: Oh you're speaking my love language. Yeah, it's so true.

1411
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 4: My favorite body and eyes are just like lit up

1412
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,000
Speaker 4: right now. I know there's a twinkle.

1413
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:15,640
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I'm really busy couple of days watching all

1414
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 5: of these. Well, listen, Doron, we thank you from the

1415
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 5: bottom of our hearts for being here. Hopefully we'll have

1416
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 5: you back as soon as you're able. And yeah, as

1417
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 5: a reminder, tickets are available now for La Comic Con

1418
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 5: and you can and should follow Doroan on his socials

1419
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:34,559
Speaker 5: at Doran o fier Cast.

1420
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:37,880
Speaker 2: So you know, again, what are we all watching? I know,

1421
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 2: body any big ideas.

1422
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 4: Mind over murder?

1423
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 3: You guys, I don't know if you if you've even

1424
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:46,559
Speaker 3: heard about it, because nobody ever really talks about it,

1425
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 3: but it's.

1426
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 4: It's about it's about false confessions.

1427
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 3: And it's so funny that Doron was talking about that

1428
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 3: with Paradise Loss, because that's how I got kind of

1429
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 3: introduced to false confessions. But yeah, it focuses on a

1430
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 3: small town in Nebraska and six pe people are all

1431
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,719
Speaker 3: confessing to the same murder, and you really learn about

1432
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 3: the science of false confessions and police interrogation techniques and

1433
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:15,680
Speaker 3: how people are broken and are basically kind of convinced

1434
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 3: that they did something they didn't do. It is a

1435
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 3: fascinating documentary. I've watched it twice now and I just

1436
01:13:22,560 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 3: rewatched it this weekend, which made me remember, oh God,

1437
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:27,760
Speaker 3: I got to talk about this because it's so good

1438
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,000
Speaker 3: and nobody ever talks about it. It's on Hulu and

1439
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 3: Apple TV, and I just can't recommend it enough, especially

1440
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,760
Speaker 3: if you're interested in how people get caught and how

1441
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,880
Speaker 3: people how could you ever false confess to something that

1442
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 3: you had nothing to do with, Well, this explains it,

1443
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 3: and it's super interesting. It happens way more often than

1444
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 3: you think, and you know a lot of the police

1445
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 3: interrogation techniques kind of are questioned in today's world because of.

1446
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 4: Things like this movie or this documentary. It's great, really good.

1447
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mind over Murder Check it Out is really good.

1448
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 4: What about you, Courtney?

1449
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 5: Oh well, this was one American Nightmare. It's on Netflix

1450
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 5: and it tells the story of Denise Huskins and Aaron

1451
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 5: Quinn and this young couple. I don't want to ruin it,

1452
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 5: but they experience a home invasion and there's a kidnapping involved.

1453
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 5: And this series, it's three episodes, tells the story from

1454
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 5: grossly different perspectives. The three parts are called the Boyfriend,

1455
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 5: Gone Girl and the others. So it's really herm and

1456
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 5: it's beautifully done, and it's also an example of unbelievable

1457
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 5: detective work.

1458
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 3: And I have to tell you the people that made

1459
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,719
Speaker 3: American Nightmare are the same people that made Donnof for Cats.

1460
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 4: Oh, you had mentioned that, I'm really proud of really

1461
01:14:55,600 --> 01:14:58,639
Speaker 4: nice job, no question. We also have a talk back.

1462
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 4: Oh do we want to go ahead? Let's play that.

1463
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 12: This is Kim from Kentucky and I was wondering all

1464
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:10,080
Speaker 12: thoughts on this with the Gabby Window case. If potentially

1465
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,959
Speaker 12: the law would I would go after the Laundry family

1466
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:18,439
Speaker 12: to sue them for resources used searching for Gabby when

1467
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 12: they have indeed announced that they knew that Brian had

1468
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 12: already taken her life.

1469
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: Great question, Another incredible question on the Gabby Patito case

1470
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 2: if you think it's possimiliar, Yeah, if you're not familiar

1471
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 2: with the case, just as a heads up, Gabby Patito

1472
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 2: was the beautiful girl who was with her boyfriend doing

1473
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 2: van life across country and her life was taken by him.

1474
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,799
Speaker 2: He goes home with out said van and allegedly maybe

1475
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 2: confesses to mom and dad, we don't know this for sure,

1476
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 2: and then he takes his own life. And you know,

1477
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 2: the question is will will the parents be charged? Potentially

1478
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,400
Speaker 2: such a great question if they misled police.

1479
01:15:59,479 --> 01:16:01,320
Speaker 4: And they they could be charged.

1480
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 5: They could be charged absolutely and have to pay restitutions

1481
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 5: for you know, money is lost and.

1482
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 2: It's basically abstruction, right I think, yeah, it's a great question.

1483
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:15,120
Speaker 2: I think we should dig a little deeper into that

1484
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 2: because so much has been you know, made suspicious about

1485
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,679
Speaker 2: Brian Laundry's parents, and you know, what would anybody do?

1486
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 2: Do you do you give shelter to your child after

1487
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 2: a terrible confession or do you turn them in? You know,

1488
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 2: I guess is the is the choice. Well, we're going

1489
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,839
Speaker 2: to dig into so much more tomorrow. We have Diddy.

1490
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 2: We haven't been talking about puff Daddy in a couple

1491
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 2: of days now, so tomorrow's the day. Also, Karen Reid,

1492
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 2: there could be a huge development tomorrow, so make sure

1493
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 2: you tune in. We will be following it so so closely.

1494
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 2: It's been an extraordinary night. We've been so happy to

1495
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,320
Speaker 2: have you here. True Crime Tonight.

1496
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:49,120
Speaker 4: Good Night,