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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom Never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. Today we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about kid beauty pageants, child beauty pageants,

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Speaker 1: and baby parades. Because we've already done a podcast way

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Speaker 1: back when on Miss America. She z the adult That

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Speaker 1: makes it sounds sexual somehow, but that's the you know, obviously,

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Speaker 1: the the adult beauty pageant. But due to the popularity

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Speaker 1: of certain television shows that have documented kids in beauty

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Speaker 1: pageants and especially the pageant parents and all of the

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Speaker 1: glitz and glamour that goes into it, and the controversy

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Speaker 1: surrounding kid beauty pageants, we wanted to take a look

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Speaker 1: at these strange events. Yes, people parading their babies around. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we were reading a lot of sources from

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Speaker 1: from you know, articles from overseas. In England Australia, people

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Speaker 1: were really upset about what they called American style child

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Speaker 1: beauty pageant and I'll just have you know they did

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Speaker 1: not originate in America. We just sort of took them

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Speaker 1: and ran with them. Right. There's this article if we

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Speaker 1: found in the Guardian newspaper over in the UK talking

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Speaker 1: about this recent rise and popularity of like you said,

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Speaker 1: Caroline needs American style child pageants. But hey Guardian, uh,

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Speaker 1: sorry to burst your British bubble, but we got them

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Speaker 1: from you in the first place. This is coming from

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Speaker 1: Hillary Levy Freedman, who was a sociologist as she went

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Speaker 1: to Harvard and she is an expert on beauty pageants

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Speaker 1: in general, especially child beauty pageants, and she traced it

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Speaker 1: back to John Ruskin, a British art critic, historian and

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Speaker 1: rumored pedophile who started the May Queen Festivals in eighteen

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Speaker 1: eighty one. Yes, to honor a girlish innocence. That just

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Speaker 1: sounds terrible. Um yeah, he would the the queen of

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Speaker 1: the May Queen Festivals had to be the likable, ist

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Speaker 1: and lovable list of all the maidens. That's a quote.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah. And then you know it's spread to North

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Speaker 1: America and we took it in, reigin with it, like

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Speaker 1: I said, and it became kind of turned into this

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Speaker 1: what they call systematic baby competition, right because they didn't

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Speaker 1: they didn't start with older, you know, like adolescent and

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Speaker 1: Jayton girls. No, they when when it came over to

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Speaker 1: the United States, they started out with parading babies, right,

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Speaker 1: went right for the baby jugular, the baby jugular right.

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Speaker 1: The most the most famous baby parade is it Asbury

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Speaker 1: Was it Asbury Park? Excuse me um? It was the

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Speaker 1: first baby parade ever held on the East Coast, and

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Speaker 1: it drew tens of thousands of spectators and it's heyday

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Speaker 1: in the eighteen nineties, And in nineteen o four, Thomas

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Speaker 1: Edison made one of his first movies about the event. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you can see it's really easy to find. I

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Speaker 1: want to say it was in the National Archives. I

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Speaker 1: ran across Edison's footage from that baby parade. So if

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Speaker 1: you want to, uh, take a look at what those

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Speaker 1: those baby parades were like. It's really what you would

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Speaker 1: think it is. It is. It's a parade of old

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Speaker 1: timey prems, times and carriages and A New York Times

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Speaker 1: article from nineteen eleven described the twenty feet annual Asbury

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Speaker 1: Park Baby Parade um saying that there were fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: people in attendance and there were five hundred and eighty

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Speaker 1: three children, all being paraded in. I cannot even imagine,

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Speaker 1: as someone who has recently been on a plane with children,

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Speaker 1: lots of them, all of them under i'd say four,

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Speaker 1: I cannot imagine being around this many children, not if

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Speaker 1: they're be you know, if they're even if they're being

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Speaker 1: like paraded around because they're so I wouldn't even go.

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Speaker 1: Let's be honest, I can't imagine. You know, babies are cute,

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Speaker 1: but I gotta say the the baby parades got a

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Speaker 1: little weird. Yeah, they got kind of weird. Um. First

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Speaker 1: of all, Coney Island, not surprisingly, ended up with the

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Speaker 1: most popular baby parade, had twelve hundred participants in its

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Speaker 1: first year, six hundred of whom were competing for the

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Speaker 1: title of most Beautiful Baby. And you know when those

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Speaker 1: babies one, when those babies got that blue ribbon, just

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Speaker 1: they continued to sit there and drink their bottle. Um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It actually it really thrived in the nineties and one

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Speaker 1: year a three year old girl in a harem costume

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Speaker 1: one and a six year old girl one and a

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Speaker 1: show girl get up? Are you kidding me? Like, isn't

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Speaker 1: that creepy? And it's weird that that reminds me though

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Speaker 1: there was a recent controversy about this this m paget

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Speaker 1: mom who dressed up her I don't know, she's probably

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Speaker 1: like four or five year old daughter. And as Julia

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Speaker 1: Roberts from the movie Pretty Women, I mean, they were

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Speaker 1: all pretty, but I'm thinking of like the movie match

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Speaker 1: ship between pretty women and little women. God, I hope

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Speaker 1: can we can somebody make that? I hope? So? But

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Speaker 1: you're right, yes, the costume game from Pretty Woman? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And and yes, which one the red dress, the tall boots,

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Speaker 1: the tall boots, and the white top. Anyway, Yes, so

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Speaker 1: the tradition continues of questionable costumes for very young young girls, right.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't It wasn't just for girls. There were

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Speaker 1: competitions involving boys and still are. Another less than tasteful

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Speaker 1: contest was the heaviest boy under one year of age. Yes, well,

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Speaker 1: because that was this was this whole thing became part

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Speaker 1: of the healthy baby movement, especially in the nineteen twenties.

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Speaker 1: This was an aspect of us very controversial public health

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Speaker 1: initiatives that is tied in with eugenics. Yikes. And for

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Speaker 1: those of you who don't know about the eugenics movement,

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Speaker 1: it kind of basically advocated practices that would improve a

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Speaker 1: population's genetic makeup in very controversial ways. Yes, and so

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Speaker 1: because of that, these better Baby contests that started in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen fifties and really peaked in nineteen thirteen, placed

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Speaker 1: emphasis on the physical perfection of these babies. They would

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Speaker 1: weigh them, measure them, judge their personalities. Yeah, they were

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Speaker 1: stripped naked and judged on several points. I think that's terrible,

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Speaker 1: poor a little. I hopefully they blocked it out or

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Speaker 1: just didn't remember their babies. Hopefully they Well, it kind

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Speaker 1: of sounds like you know, the the Westminster Dog Show

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Speaker 1: when they have them up on the dogs up on

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Speaker 1: the little stage and they lift their ears up and

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Speaker 1: lift their tails up, and it kind of those better

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Speaker 1: babies lifting those baby's tales. But yeah, back then it

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Speaker 1: also must have been somewhat controversial. The last known healthy

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Speaker 1: Baby contest was held at the Iowa State Fair in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two, around the time the beautiful Baby contests

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Speaker 1: and parades also began to peter out. But I found

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Speaker 1: some modern day baby parade and healthy baby contest links. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was one. There's one in Hawaii called the Meadow

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Speaker 1: Gold Dairies annual Healthy Baby Contest, and it's a tradition

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Speaker 1: since nineteen fifty three, which is the year after this

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Speaker 1: fact about the Iowa State Fair in nineteen fifty two,

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Speaker 1: And the quote on the website is hundreds of toddlers

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Speaker 1: compete for the title of owah, Who's Healthiest Baby. They're

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Speaker 1: judged off physical appearance, healthiness, and personality, with each category

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Speaker 1: scored on a fifty point scale. No, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing now. I think it's worth noting that, um,

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Speaker 1: the Beautiful Baby contests started to die out in the fifties,

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Speaker 1: partially because people were concerned about spreading polio in large

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Speaker 1: every time, but kind of. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: you still hear similar arguments that people make against today's

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Speaker 1: child beauty pageants. For instance, this uh this nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: six New York Times headline Baby Awards and Joy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're just saying that, like all of competing for all

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Speaker 1: these prizes, the parents would go bonkers trying to get

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Speaker 1: uh their kids first place. They would take kids across

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Speaker 1: state lines so that they could compete in more pageants,

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Speaker 1: false identification and all that stuff. Yeah, people, these it's

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Speaker 1: really more about the crazy parents than the kids. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: kids probably didn't even know what was going on. I

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Speaker 1: get to dress up today. But then in nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: eight we have child and teen pageants take off with

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Speaker 1: America's Junior Miss Paget, which was started by the j

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Speaker 1: CS of Mobile, Alabama. Which is kind of interesting that

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Speaker 1: the kid and teen pageant things starts in Mobile because

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Speaker 1: a lot of times it seems like, at least from

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Speaker 1: the portrayals on television, a lot of us is taking

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Speaker 1: place in the South. Right, And not to offend anyone

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Speaker 1: or get too controversial, but the Guardian article quotes Frank

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Speaker 1: uh Let's Furity Purity, You're ready, a professor of sociology

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Speaker 1: at the University of kent Um. You know, he talks

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Speaker 1: a little bit about what these uh pageants mean to

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Speaker 1: parents and their kids, and he says that in America

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Speaker 1: it's seen as a white trailer trash kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and there's a real contempt for that. But if you

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Speaker 1: come from a middle class background and shove your child

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Speaker 1: into music lessons, that's okay. Parental aspiration requires acquires different forms,

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Speaker 1: but it's a very similar kind of impulse. I think

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Speaker 1: it has a point that parents are always having our

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Speaker 1: kids into something. Just that he just points out this

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Speaker 1: perception that seems to be kind of prevalent about who's

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Speaker 1: doing what activity right because and there's another study UM

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Speaker 1: conducted by Hillary Levey Freedman who we talked about UM,

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Speaker 1: who is from Harvard, who did the She's done extensive

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Speaker 1: sociological research on beauty pageants as well, and she interviewed

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Speaker 1: forty one mothers who participated in about five pageants a year.

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Speaker 1: So these these are kind of like the super moms

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Speaker 1: that we stereotype with the child beauty pageants. And her

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Speaker 1: study found that mothers of lower income and lower education

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Speaker 1: levels would typically enroll their daughters in these contests to

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Speaker 1: teach them proper skills to move up the social ladder right,

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Speaker 1: because you you know, you have contests for things like

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Speaker 1: poise and they're putting on makeup and they have to

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Speaker 1: do this special talent that they can use entertain people.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, I can understand it. Possibly from that perspective,

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Speaker 1: active it might be there might be better ways. But

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Speaker 1: going back to the emergence of of teen and child

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Speaker 1: pageants in the United States, I would like to point

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Speaker 1: out not only some notable pageants, but also some notable

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Speaker 1: pageant winners. Teen pageant winners, for instance, America's Junior Miss

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Speaker 1: pageant of nineteen sixty three, Diane Sawyer. What, yes, I

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Speaker 1: had no idea, I know, and she's a pretty lady.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure she was a pretty baby. No, I think

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Speaker 1: this was the team competence team. Okay, so I'm sure

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Speaker 1: she was a young woman. She was probably a pretty

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Speaker 1: baby too. But other America's Junior Miss pageant winners include

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Speaker 1: Deborah Norville, Kim Bay Singer, Kathie Lee Gifford, and Debora

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Speaker 1: Messing from Will and Grays. All Right, ladies, see they

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Speaker 1: used it to transition into show business? Was what? Um?

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of well, okay, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: say a lot, but I think, you know, some parents

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Speaker 1: hope that their kids can transition into show business. It

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Speaker 1: was kind of talked about in some of those Our Goals.

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Speaker 1: But I wonder how promising it is if, say, your

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Speaker 1: your child takes the top prize at other, you know,

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Speaker 1: less prestigious beauty pageants such as Miss Catfish Queen, Miss

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Speaker 1: Baby Poultry Princess, Miss American Beauty, Queen of Hearts, or

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Speaker 1: Miss American starlet fashion model, which I wish I could win.

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Speaker 1: Now this American stolid fashion model that sounds like something

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Speaker 1: out of like Jim in the Hologram. It does, it

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Speaker 1: absolutely does. Um, which you know I was Jim when

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Speaker 1: You're for Halloween. That's another podcast. Um. You know, not

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Speaker 1: everybody is very excited about these pageants though, Um Freedman

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Speaker 1: uh was talking about blah blah blah. Okay, okay, not

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Speaker 1: everybody's excited. So Freedman was actually contacted by a group

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Speaker 1: of concerned citizens in Australia because this past summer, um

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Speaker 1: there was going to be a young people's pageant. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like the American style seeping out first over to the UK,

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Speaker 1: now to Australia. Yeah, just arkling the globe like a plague. Um.

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Speaker 1: And she told them to calm down. There's actually very

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Speaker 1: little data on the long term effects of pageant participation

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Speaker 1: or the families who participate. Um. She actually discusses the

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Speaker 1: positive effects. Uh, you know, kids learned to be confident

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Speaker 1: in front of an audience, and it can be fun

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Speaker 1: for some of these kids to dress up and unteract

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Speaker 1: interact with other children. But she also brings up some

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Speaker 1: of the problems the potential issues that could arise. Um.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that she points out is what

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Speaker 1: happens if a child, you know, they've been dressed up

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Speaker 1: and Primpton prodded for these for these pageants, spray tand

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Speaker 1: fake teeth. We saw some pictures of little girls with

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Speaker 1: fake teeth and fake hands and it is horrific. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's and especially with the teeth they you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason why you know, kids have baby teeth

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Speaker 1: that fall out and then when you're an adult you

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Speaker 1: have the adult teeth. Kids with adult teeth. It does

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Speaker 1: look very unnatural. Yeah. Um, but she she point it's

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Speaker 1: out that a child looking in the mirror and not

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Speaker 1: recognizing herself could be really confusing and traumatic for the child,

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Speaker 1: and it might reinforce the idea that she's only pretty

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Speaker 1: with these fake teeth, dyed hair, fake tan. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing. Like, I get what the point she's

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Speaker 1: trying to make about saying, like, well, it teaches them

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Speaker 1: confidence in front of an audience. It can be fun interaction. Okay,

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Speaker 1: if you want confidence in front of an audience, there

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Speaker 1: are things like theater, improv how about team sports if

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Speaker 1: you want to interact or piano for skills like there

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Speaker 1: are certainly options out there that aren't Number one, like

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Speaker 1: judging your child on her beauty Yeah, and and possibly

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Speaker 1: a questionable wardrobe choices yeah she um. She references a

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Speaker 1: two thousand five article and the journal Eating Disorders that

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Speaker 1: discusses links between beauty pageant participation and eating disorders. Um.

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Speaker 1: She said that childhood pageant participants scored higher on body

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Speaker 1: dissatisfact and the non participants, and participation may lead to

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Speaker 1: difficulty trusting interpersonal relationships and greater impulsive behavior, but it doesn't. Actually,

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Speaker 1: she says that it's not statistically significant its effects on

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Speaker 1: bulimic behaviors, body perception, depression, and self esteem basically because girls,

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Speaker 1: whether they are pageant participants are not, are so inundated

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Speaker 1: by media images promoting this thin ideal for for women,

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Speaker 1: this unnatural thinness that it doesn't make It doesn't make

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Speaker 1: them anymore likely to develop and eating disorder. But I

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Speaker 1: think we should also point out that this was a

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Speaker 1: really small example of population. It was twenty two uh participants,

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Speaker 1: eleven of whom had done the pageants. Right. Um, actually, ah,

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Speaker 1: this makes me so sad. But the the girls who

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Speaker 1: are I'm sorry. The young They were young women at

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Speaker 1: this point. The survey was done between nineteen, and they

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Speaker 1: were more likely to think of them selves as larger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: whether I mean no matter, because they were paired. The

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Speaker 1: eleven girls who had participated in pageants as kids were

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Speaker 1: paired with counterparts of similar age, weight, whatever, who had not,

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Speaker 1: And the pageant participants were more likely to think of

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Speaker 1: themselves as large and also had a greater preference for um,

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Speaker 1: kind of acquiring a smaller figure. Yeah, probably because they

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Speaker 1: were used to standing up on stage, you know, sandwiched

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Speaker 1: between like other other thin girls. Right. But you know,

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Speaker 1: she does point out that there is a difference here

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Speaker 1: between the pageant and non pageant participants, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: completely statistically significant however, Um, you know, she does point

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Speaker 1: out that all of these girls were um exposed to

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Speaker 1: you know, lots of media, you know, thin images, images

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Speaker 1: of thin women in magazines and TV and all that,

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Speaker 1: so they were all sort of affected by it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think with all of the all of the articles

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Speaker 1: that we read, aside from the parents who were their

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Speaker 1: children in these pageants, and some of the girls interviewed,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, some of them said that they enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you'll see that on some of the television shows.

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Speaker 1: The kids seem to be into it. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, it does seem like it's something

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Speaker 1: very much orchestrated by the parents and especially the mothers,

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Speaker 1: who get really into this whole pageant cycle. And there

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Speaker 1: was aside from those people, there was no one in

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Speaker 1: any of these articles that was like, yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: pageants are good for kids. It was always like, maybe

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Speaker 1: it qualified, well, you might have a couple of benefits.

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Speaker 1: And if you're talking to a psychologists as there was

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Speaker 1: always no, no, it's really not good. But I think

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Speaker 1: maybe one of the reasons why there isn't more empirical

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Speaker 1: data on on how these this pageant cycle affects kids

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Speaker 1: is because there are around three thousand children's pageants per

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Speaker 1: year in the US, attracting more than a hundred thousand contestants.

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Speaker 1: And while that seems like a lot, I mean, while

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Speaker 1: you know, it might seem kind of crazy that perhaps

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Speaker 1: kids do compete for Miss Baby Poultry Princess, but a

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand contestants, that's that is a small slice of

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Speaker 1: of the entire population in that in that group, not

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Speaker 1: to say that because it's a relatively small group of

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Speaker 1: people than we shouldn't care. But that just might, it

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Speaker 1: might be one of the reasons why there isn't more.

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Speaker 1: I also talk about how difficult it is to study children,

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Speaker 1: you know, to get children to participate, uh in in

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Speaker 1: in research like that, and it would probably be a

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Speaker 1: little more difficult with this group to separate the filter

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Speaker 1: out their parents influence from what they actually want to do, right,

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Speaker 1: especially you know, at such a young age, how do

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Speaker 1: you know that it's what they want? And uh The

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Speaker 1: University of Kent sociology professor who's quoted in the Guardian

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Speaker 1: sort of points that out and he says that, um,

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Speaker 1: no child is autonomous. If a child says this is

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Speaker 1: what I want to do, it's generally not a hundred

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Speaker 1: miles away from what the parent wants. What one sees

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Speaker 1: here is adult fantasies fueling this thing. It's for adults,

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Speaker 1: and here's the thing to um because the sociologist is

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Speaker 1: also the one who is saying that it appeals more

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Speaker 1: to um lower socio economic groups, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: ironic because beauty child beauty pageants are a huge financial investment.

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Speaker 1: The parents are making some people are taking out loans.

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Speaker 1: Some of these pageants end up costing parents tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. I can't think of all the shoes

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Speaker 1: or you know, college education or whatever. But I mean

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Speaker 1: to to enter America's Gorgeous Girl. To get sure, if you,

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Speaker 1: if you had a little if you wanted to enter

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Speaker 1: me Caroline and America's Gorgeous Girl, it would cost you dollars. Now,

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Speaker 1: if I wanted to enter you, and I wish I

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Speaker 1: could in the Ultimate Supreme at Southern Sparkles and Smiles

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Speaker 1: and that is Smiles with a Z, it would cost

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Speaker 1: me four dollars just to get you on that stage,

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Speaker 1: not to mention the fake tan i'd have to give you.

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Speaker 1: I know my Scottish background is I look scared in

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Speaker 1: photos sometimes. Um yeah, I mean you've got to consider

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Speaker 1: training photos, hair and makeup clothes. I mean some you know,

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Speaker 1: people are getting custom gowns made for their little girls

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Speaker 1: because they're just going to grow out of It just

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Speaker 1: makes me sick. Um yeah. And let's you know, not forget.

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Speaker 1: They point out this is on banquet dot com where

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Speaker 1: they're talking about all the money that goes into it. Um,

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Speaker 1: and they mentioned that the parents who serve as managers

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Speaker 1: for their children can get way too involved, and these

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Speaker 1: parents typically end up having a far less stable and

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Speaker 1: positive relationship with their children. I mean, can you imagine

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Speaker 1: so if you get involved so involved in the in

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Speaker 1: the circuit that you would need some kind of managerial figure.

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Speaker 1: The parent might want to bring in some kind of

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Speaker 1: pageant assistance, even more money. And a pageant expert points

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Speaker 1: out in the article that Bally lessons are worth it

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Speaker 1: for poise, but tanning sessions are not. The judges sometimes

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Speaker 1: think they look silly and they do on on grown

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Speaker 1: up people too, And they should also save their money

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Speaker 1: from buying colored contacts because those apparently freak out judges

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Speaker 1: and myself and absolutely Paris Hilton, that goes out to you.

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Speaker 1: But like you know, children and children colored contexts. But

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Speaker 1: I think that's exactly the point. That the fact that

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Speaker 1: parents would consider temporarily changing their young child's eye color

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Speaker 1: and putting in, you know, fake adult teeth and spray

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Speaker 1: training them down in order to win what a tiara,

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Speaker 1: a sash, a gift certificate to a local superstore, it

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Speaker 1: just doesn't seem worth. It doesn't seem worth it either.

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Speaker 1: I mean think, and I know everyone has different priorities,

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Speaker 1: everybody is different. Everybody has a thing. It's my motto.

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Speaker 1: Everybody has a thing. Um. But you know, just think

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Speaker 1: about all the money that these people are spending and

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Speaker 1: they could be spending it on something else, maybe investing

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Speaker 1: it if they're if they're concerned about you know, getting

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Speaker 1: their moving their daughters up some kind of social ladder,

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Speaker 1: maybe they should invest it in I don't know, education,

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Speaker 1: if they've got that money, put it into college. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'm not their parents, but

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Speaker 1: it definitely seems like there are far better investments than uh,

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Speaker 1: sparkle and glitz. Although you know, the title of the

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Speaker 1: Ultimate supremea Southern sparkles and smiles would be would be something.

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Speaker 1: And I just would like to point out that I

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Speaker 1: still have a mental image circulating in my brain from

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Speaker 1: the poultry thing of a baby dressed in a chicken suit,

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Speaker 1: just like to that this baby poultry princess indeed picturing

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Speaker 1: well either that or you know, I don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I think we've I think we've gone about as

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Speaker 1: far as we can with child. But there's so much there,

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Speaker 1: and especially I mean just the fact that uh, that

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Speaker 1: the baby parades are connected in some way to eugenics.

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Speaker 1: That just gets the whole thing off on an awkward foot.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, but you know what I want

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Speaker 1: to hear from UM if any listeners have actually participated

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Speaker 1: in pageants when they were kids, because you know, I

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Speaker 1: grew up with a I knew a couple of girls

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Speaker 1: growing up who actually did like young Lady modeling and

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Speaker 1: and it was the same thing. Their parents were like,

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Speaker 1: we're and I give you confidence because you're pretty and

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Speaker 1: confidence in whatever. And that's the only way you should

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Speaker 1: be able to find confidence as a woman is to

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Speaker 1: have someone else tell you that you're pretty enough to

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Speaker 1: be liked. Right makes me feel sad, So write us

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00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,640
Speaker 1: send us your emails anyone who has any thoughts on pageants,

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Speaker 1: mom stuff at how stuff works dot com is the address.

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Speaker 1: In the meantime, we got a couple of emails here

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Speaker 1: on our women in Science episode, and this is from

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Speaker 1: a listener who wishes to remain anonymous. UM. She wrote

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Speaker 1: in after listening to our science podcasts UM. She said,

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Speaker 1: another woman who had an amazing scientific breakthrough, although not

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Speaker 1: known for being a scientist, is Hetty Lamar. The actress.

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Speaker 1: She is best known for inventing frequency hopping spread spectrum technology,

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Speaker 1: originally invented during World War Two from asking radio signals

401
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: for torpedoes. Although I don't think it was used until

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Speaker 1: the nineties, it is now a major building block to

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Speaker 1: cell phone technology. She invented other stuff as well, and

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Speaker 1: was really interested in science. I find her fascinating. You

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Speaker 1: can have brains and beauty also. I actually have a

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Speaker 1: degree in electrical engineering. When I graduated in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: my graduation class was only ten percent women. I did

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Speaker 1: an internship within this field, but when offered a job

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Speaker 1: after graduation, didn't accept it for several reasons. One of

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Speaker 1: the reasons was that the workplace environment was obviously dominated

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Speaker 1: by men and really wasn't comfortable for me. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: that there was any type of discrimination, it just was

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Speaker 1: not a group that I felt I would enjoy working

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Speaker 1: with because I had nothing in common with them and

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Speaker 1: didn't feel I fit in on a personal level, which

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Speaker 1: is a big part of the workplace experience. I ended

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Speaker 1: up taking a job with an I T Consulting, so

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Speaker 1: still stem and love it. Most entry level positions at

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Speaker 1: the time were fairly equal between men and women, and

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Speaker 1: I found it to be a better and more balanced

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Speaker 1: working environment. Well, I've got one here from Jessica, and

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Speaker 1: while she started out as a chemistry major in college,

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Speaker 1: she ended up switching to Spanish education, and she makes

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Speaker 1: an interesting point about gender in the education field. And

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Speaker 1: as she said, the education field is positively overrun by women,

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Speaker 1: and what few men are there are relegated to specific fields,

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Speaker 1: usually agricultural science or physical education. I did know a

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Speaker 1: couple of guys in either social science or English education,

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Speaker 1: but funnily enough, I never met a guy from math

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Speaker 1: education or science education field, although there was one token mail.

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Speaker 1: In elementary education, gender was a topic we touched on

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Speaker 1: in multiple education classes. Because so many teachers are female,

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Speaker 1: it's important to make our male students feel included. So

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Speaker 1: that's kind of that's that's one observation to maybe, as

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Speaker 1: we're talking a lot about the dearth of women in science,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's a dearth of men in education that we

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Speaker 1: should touch on a NATO podcast indeed, and again our

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Speaker 1: email addresses Mom's Stuff at how Stuff Works dot com,

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Speaker 1: it's stuff Mom Never told of You at how stuff

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